Presenting: Julia on IMO with Michelle Obama with Craig Robinson

Summary

Wiser Than Me™ Episode Summary: "Presenting: Julia on IMO with Michelle Obama with Craig Robinson"

Release Date: July 16, 2025
Podcast: Wiser Than Me™
Host/Author: Lemonada Media
Guests: Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson

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Overview

In this engaging episode of Wiser Than Me™, Julia Louis-Dreyfus is joined by former First Lady Michelle Obama and her brother Craig Robinson on the show IMO. The trio delves into the profound themes of friendship, loneliness, and community building among older adults. Together, they explore personal anecdotes, share wisdom garnered from life experiences, and provide actionable strategies to navigate the complexities of maintaining meaningful relationships in later life.

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Main Discussions

1. Friendship and Loneliness in Later Life

The conversation kicks off with a heartfelt question from a listener, Andrea, concerning her 68-year-old mother, Sharon. After moving from Texas to North Carolina following her father's retirement, Sharon finds herself isolated, having left behind a vast social network built over decades. Andrea expresses concern over Sharon's feelings of loneliness and her newfound resistance to making new friends due to past friendship losses.

Michelle Obama (20:56): "This is a woman who wrote that, right? She's obviously a very devoted daughter. So to begin with, it brings up the idea of getting older and starting to parent your own parents."

Craig Robinson (21:08): "People can be lonely inside of very healthy relationships, you know, if you don't share the same hobbies in common, if you have different temperaments, even different life patterns."

2. Building and Maintaining Community

Michelle and Craig emphasize the importance of intentionality in building new friendships and communities. They discuss how relocation can disrupt established social structures, making it imperative to actively seek out new connections.

Michelle Obama (22:10): "If the focus is... getting involved in community where you are, you will find your people."

Craig Robinson (24:16): "You're stuck. And, you know, it's part of friendship is taking that risk of loss. And it doesn't change because we're older."

They advocate for embracing new experiences and engaging in community activities as pathways to forming meaningful relationships.

Michelle Obama (22:57): "Taking action can open up doors."

Craig Robinson (26:19): "People are really good folks. Even when you're in a high-powered position, most people are open to the new."

3. Personal Stories and Insights

Michelle shares personal anecdotes about losing close friends and how those experiences have shaped her perspective on life and relationships. Craig echoes similar sentiments, recounting the sudden loss of a college friend and the profound impact it had on his career choices and personal growth.

Michelle Obama (46:07): "I've lost friends. I've had a couple friends die. That has been devastating because it was just truly unfair of the universe."

Craig Robinson (47:03): "That loss woke me up at a time in life... what am I doing with my life?"

These stories highlight the inevitability of change and loss in relationships, underscoring the importance of cherishing and investing in the friendships that endure.

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Key Insights and Strategies

1. Intentional Community Building:
   Actively participating in community events, classes, or groups can foster new friendships. Michelle advises focusing on shared activities rather than the sole aim of making friends.

   Michelle Obama (22:10): "If the focus is... getting involved in community where you are, you will find your people."

2. Embracing New Experiences:
   Engaging in new hobbies or adventures with friends can strengthen bonds and create lasting memories.

   Craig Robinson (39:56): "Joining crafts, taking up hobbies with your friends... set up a cook, or you learn how to knit, or you take up tennis."

3. Overcoming Fear of Loss:
   Addressing fears related to potential friendship loss is crucial. Michelle and Craig suggest that understanding and accepting the natural ebb and flow of relationships can alleviate anxiety about forming new connections.

   Craig Robinson (24:19): "It's a part of friendship is taking that risk of loss."

4. Leveraging Shared Responsibilities:
   Involving partners in the quest to build new friendships can make the process more manageable and less daunting.

   Michelle Obama (50:03): "Start by talking to her dad... it's not her burden alone."

5. Maintaining Existing Friendships:
   Regularly scheduled reunions or shared activities can help preserve long-standing friendships despite geographical or lifestyle changes.

   Michelle Obama (39:10): "We try to have a reunion once a year somewhere."

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Concluding Thoughts

The episode underscores the essential role of community and intentionality in fostering meaningful relationships as we age. Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson provide compassionate advice rooted in personal experience, encouraging listeners to embrace their freedom in later life to build and sustain connections that enrich their lives. Julia Louis-Dreyfus masterfully steers the conversation, ensuring that the wisdom shared is both relatable and actionable for her audience.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Michelle Obama (20:56):
  "This is a woman who wrote that, right? She's obviously a very devoted daughter. So to begin with, it brings up the idea of getting older and starting to parent your own parents."

• Craig Robinson (21:08):
  "People can be lonely inside of very healthy relationships, you know, if you don't share the same hobbies in common..."

• Michelle Obama (22:10):
  "If the focus is... getting involved in community where you are, you will find your people."

• Craig Robinson (24:16):
  "You're stuck. And, you know, it's part of friendship is taking that risk of loss."

• Michelle Obama (46:07):
  "I've lost friends. I've had a couple friends die. That has been devastating because it was just truly unfair of the universe."

• Craig Robinson (47:03):
  "That loss woke me up at a time in life... what am I doing with my life?"

• Michelle Obama (50:03):
  "Start by talking to her dad... it's not her burden alone."

• Craig Robinson (39:56):
  "Joining crafts, taking up hobbies with your friends... set up a cook, or you learn how to knit, or you take up tennis."

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Final Thoughts

This episode serves as a valuable resource for anyone grappling with the challenges of maintaining friendships and building new communities in their later years. Through candid discussions and heartfelt stories, Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson offer both comfort and practical advice, embodying the very essence of the wisdom that Wiser Than Me™ aims to share.

Transcript

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Hey, listeners. It's me, Julia. We're back for season three of Wiser than me, and we have so much more wisdom to share from the legendary older women who have joined me this season. I can't tell you the number of times when I'm having these conversations. I find myself scrambling for, like, a piece of paper or a napkin or whatever I can find on my desk to quickly jot down some nugget that my guest is sharing in our conversation. I mean, you've probably had the same experience, right? Well, guess what? Problem solved. We have created brand new wiser than me notebooks with fun sayings on the COVID like get wise or wise up so you can keep all your newfound wisdom in one place. We just added these groovy hardcover notebooks to our merch shop. To buy yours, head over to wiser than me shop.com today.

[Michelle Obama]

Lemonade. Hi, wiser than me listeners.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

It's Julia. I have a really exciting episode to share with you today. I recently had the honor of being a guest on IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson. Each week on the show, the former first lady and her brother team up to share personal stories and offer heartfelt advice as they tackle life's big and sometimes messy questions. In the episode you're about to hear, we talk about some of the powerful lessons that I've learned from older women while making wiser than me. And we also dive into how friendships can evolve as we get older and why building community matters at every age. It was a thoughtful and honest and.

[Michelle Obama]

It was a really fun conversation, and I'm so excited for you to hear it.

[Craig Robinson]

This stage in life for me, for me personally, is the first time that I've been completely free.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. There's a real release where every choice.

[Craig Robinson]

That I make in my life is not about my husband, not about his career, not about what my kids need or where they're going. It's totally about me.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Hey, you.

[Michelle Obama]

Hi.

[Craig Robinson]

Craig Robinson. How's it going?

[Unknown Male Speaker]

It's going well, Mish. How you doing?

[Craig Robinson]

I'm doing pretty good. I'm digging that, Aqua.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

This is one of my favorite pieces, by the way. But listen, we've had a great conversation about friendship.

[Craig Robinson]

Oh, yeah. Today. Today we're gonna talk about.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

But today we're gonna talk about friendships as we age.

[Craig Robinson]

Ah, okay.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

And I was finding it hard when I was sort of researching this topic and thinking about it and being a guy in a committed relationship, I never thought that when you're in a committed relationship, there's the potential of still Being lonely because of course I still have little kids at home, so I'm running around chasing them. But, you know, it's a phenomenon.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah. And I think it's particularly true with women. Maybe it's the nature of men and women and how they sort of maneuver in the world. But I have a number of female friends in relationships who, you know, but for their outside friendships, would perhaps feel lonely within their relationships. And I don't want to generalize, but their men's habits are different. Sometimes they don't want to chit chat, they don't want to catch up. So I have a lot of friends who, you know, they love their partners, but they, you know, find their friendships and relationships outside of that unit. But I don't, I don't know if you experience that among your friends.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

You know, I think what I perceive and what's actually happening now is making me think there is a gap there because I'm. I'm like most. I'm like a guy. I'm the kind of guy who is assuming everything is going fine until somebody says, oh, you know what, my wife and I are getting divorced. Or, you know, my wife's telling me she's lonely and I don't know what to do. I haven't had that happen. But I can.

[Craig Robinson]

People, people can be lonely inside of very healthy relationships, you know, if you don't share the same hobbies in common, if you have different temperaments, even different life patterns. And throughout my life, especially now that I'm getting older, I work very hard to maintain my relationships with my friends, whether we live in the same city or not. Maybe living in the White House and being in a position that was pretty isolating, right. You know, not too many people can walk up to my door and knock on it and say, just dropping by for a cup of tea, right? So as a result, you know, people couldn't have our phone numbers. They couldn't for security reasons. So there was a wall between me and my friends that was real. And as a result, I got into the habit of making sure that I was continuously reaching out, finding ways to bring people in, planning events, planning trips with my friends, because absent me doing that work, it was just really hard for a friend to call me over those eight years and say, hey girl, wanna go to the movies or you wanna go on a trip? But I found that that habit has served me well now that I'm in my 60s. And I can even foresee how beneficial that is as I get even older because my friends and I We just have a routine of how we connect no matter where we are in the world. We have habits, routines, rituals that we do amongst ourselves. And even with our daughters as they get older, with our kids as they get older, that has helped us sustain our relationships. But a lot of people haven't invested that kind of time.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Yeah. And I mean, you're so good at keeping your friendships close and inviting people in. Well, we're gonna talk a lot about relatable relationship friendship questions today, and we've got a fantastic guests.

[Craig Robinson]

We do.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

We have both been excited about this. So I think anybody, I mean, I.

[Craig Robinson]

With a brain, would be excited about our next guest.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

And I'm talking about Julia Louis Dreyfus. And she's an Emmy award winning actress and comedian known for her roles in Veep and Seinfeld, of course. But Julia is currently hosting a popular podcast, very popular podcast called Wiser Than Me. And I'm excited to hear about that too. But I have so many a varied number of questions that we might get off topic.

[Craig Robinson]

But. Well, we'll have to rein it back in, fangirl in here.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

I'm really excited about that. So without any further ado, Julia, come join us. Oh, there she is. So happy you can be here.

[Michelle Obama]

I'm so happy to be here. I am so delighted to be here. And I was, I'm sure you don't remember this, Michelle, but I went to a Soul Cycle class with you.

[Craig Robinson]

Oh, my gosh.

[Michelle Obama]

I did.

[Craig Robinson]

I went through my deep Soul Cycle class.

[Michelle Obama]

You did.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

You were kind of an addict.

[Craig Robinson]

I was. I was, yeah. Yeah. And we went right around the White House.

[Michelle Obama]

That's right.

[Craig Robinson]

So how did you find your Soul Cycle, and had you been doing Soul Cycle?

[Michelle Obama]

No, I had never done it before. I do other things to work out, but I hadn't done Soul Cycle. Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Didn't care for it.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Hey.

[Michelle Obama]

But I was happy to try it.

[Craig Robinson]

It's an acquired taste.

[Michelle Obama]

It is, in fact. Yeah, it is. Yeah.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

I think she's the only one in our family who like doing it.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah, I went through. I, I, I'm like that with activities, you know, I, it's like potato chips. I can't just eat one. Once I, you know, link into something, I'm like, all in.

[Michelle Obama]

Do you like to hike?

[Craig Robinson]

I do, but I don't hike as much as I did just like, I don't do Soul Cycle as much. I've had to vary as I've gotten older my workouts, because they mess up the body in certain ways.

[Michelle Obama]

So Soul Cycle, you really have to differentiate. Yeah. Right.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

You gotta diversify. So tell us about Wiser Than Me. Are you having fun?

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. It's really. You know, the genesis of it was that I saw this. This movie, this documentary with Jane Fonda about her life.

[Craig Robinson]

You guys probably saw that one. Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

And I was so struck by the breadth of her life, profundity. If she'd done so many different things. And it got me thinking about, wow, there's so many women out there that are older. I mean, at the time, she was 85, I believe, that are older, that have had these extraordinary lives, and we're not hearing from them.

[Craig Robinson]

That's right.

[Michelle Obama]

So I wanted. So I was like, I need to. Oh, I've gotta find a podcast that talks to those women. Of course, there wasn't one. So then I just started to do it, and it's really taken off, so it's nice. And it's an opportunity for talking about friendships. It's an opportunity. I've made some real friends doing this, including Jane, by the way. So we're doing a lot of sort of political, environmental activism together now as a result of this, which is great.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah. I think the concept is beautiful, and it's necessary. We talk about this a lot. Women, as we age, we get pushed out of the picture.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Craig Robinson]

It's incredible when we're, you know, as, you know, now that I'm 60.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Craig Robinson]

This is really the first time in my life where I feel completely me. And I can absolutely embrace my wisdom.

[Michelle Obama]

Yes.

[Craig Robinson]

I mean, because I think we, as women, we spend most of our lives saying, well, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. We qualify everything.

[Michelle Obama]

We apologize.

[Craig Robinson]

We apologize. We don't want to put our opinion because maybe we're wrong. We're always hedging, you know, because in the back of our minds, we weren't raised with the certainty of maleness. That, you know, kind of the confidence that young men in their 30s have, which they haven't earned. They just have it. You know, we don't start feeling that and owning that until our 50s and 60s, at a time when we start to be treated as invisible in society. And the notion that you are capturing that wisdom in a systematic way is powerful.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. I think it's critical for both. For the culture generally. It's not just for women. It's for men, frankly. We're just missing an opportunity. I mean, these women are. I think of them as being on the front lines of life, and they can report back to us what they've Seen and what we should or should not be doing. And as people, not as. Just as female people, but as people. So I am thrilled to do it. It's a lot of work because I wanna come to the table really well versed in what they've done and who they are. And we're talking to scientists and novelists and everybody. And I'm learning a lot as I go.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah, this may be an unfair question. What's one of the most fascinating things you've learned in this process from one of these women? Or a couple of things that you would say have stuck with you?

[Michelle Obama]

No, is a complete answer. Is something that stayed with me. I'm sure you've heard that before, but it sure is a meaningful sentence. And, and particularly as women, we are sort of our culture indoctrinates us to put a caveat onto a no. I know I should, but I can't, you know, all of that kind of stuff.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah, women, we have so many landmines and barriers and don'ts and limitations. It's, you know, I mean, Craig, you're the guy at the table. But I think it's important for all guys listening, especially men raising daughters, to realize that, that, that difference, you know, and that, that thing that in inadvertently as you are loving and raising these beautiful girls. There are so many rules baked in.

[Michelle Obama]

That make us small baked in without our knowing it, you know, And I wish I could. I mean, I. Well, I. You know, I remember people saying, oh, well, she's a female doctor. Mm.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

As opposed to just she's a doctor, you know.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

No, this is good. We have to remember this for the next time you're here to talk about that topic.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

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[Michelle Obama]

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[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

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[Unknown Male Speaker]

We're here to talk about friendship and loneliness as older adults, as we as.

[Craig Robinson]

We get older in life.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

As we get older in life. And we have a really good question today, talking about sort of being an adult and having this very vibrant friend life that all of a sudden is not there anymore. And I found this topic really interesting. And I think now's a good time to have Natalie, our producer, read the question and then we can dive in. We can dive in. Yeah.

[Natalie]

Natalie hi, Michelle and Craig. My name is Andrea and I'm 40 years old. My mom, Sharon, is 68 years old and has always had a meaningful and wide circle of friends from high school and college and friends she made while she and my dad raised my sister and me. She also had an extensive social network through my dad's colleagues. He was a college professor at a university in Texas, and the campus brought them many close friendships, friends they'd share dinner parties with, join on weekend trips, and seen nearly every morning for the run club on campus. My mom was also fortunate to be close with her own co workers at her job in the college admissions office. But a little over a year ago, my dad retired and they moved back to North Carolina, where they both grew up. My sister and I stayed in Texas, and I think I saw this coming. But when I talked to my mom recently, she admitted she felt like she'd lost nearly every friend she'd ever made. I know she'd already experienced some strain on her friendships in Texas, whether due to retirements or illness or divorce. But this big move means all the social structures that once supported her friendships have vanished, and with them, her connection to her cherished communities. So my question is, how can my mom reframe her thinking around friendship during this pretty radically new chapter in her own life, Whether that be gaining enthusiasm for making new friends in North Carolina or maintaining connections to her old friends without the help of built in community and networks. As her daughter, I am especially concerned with helping her to answer this question because of a fear she revealed to me that I really hadn't seen coming. She told me she's actually feeling a brand new resistance to connecting with people because she knows that eventually more life change will just lead to more friendship loss. How can I help my mom in her new feelings of loneliness and maybe reinvigorate her desire to make new friends in this brand new stage of life? Thanks for your thoughts, Andrea.

[Michelle Obama]

There's a lot to unpack in that question and can I dive in, please? Yeah, I mean, there is so much going on there. She's obviously. This is a woman who wrote that, right?

[Craig Robinson]

A daughter.

[Michelle Obama]

Right. She is obviously a very devoted daughter. So to begin with, it brings up the idea of getting older and starting to parent your own parents.

[Craig Robinson]

Oh, yes.

[Michelle Obama]

Which I've certainly been through. Am going through and I know you guys have as well, so. And that's an amazing fliparoo that you never anticipate when you're younger. It doesn't even occur to you that all of a sudden she's worried about her mom making friends. Isn't it usually your mom's worried about you making friends?

[Craig Robinson]

Exactly, exactly.

[Michelle Obama]

So that's an incredible. But I see it as very surmountable. You know, we recently lost our home in this horrible LA fire and so our community is gone. Gone where? We raised our children. And so I'm sort of wrestling with the same thing.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

And what I'm finding is that if.

[Michelle Obama]

The focus is not necessarily meeting a friend, which has kind of a. I'm not saying it's a bad focus, but a different stressor.

[Craig Robinson]

It feels.

[Michelle Obama]

It's a different stressor.

[Craig Robinson]

Oppressive, right?

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. It's like you're. Yeah, it's. You're putting pressure on yourself. And maybe if the focus is. And this is what I'm trying to do, getting involved in community where you are, you will find your people. That's what I think. Certainly that's what I'm trying to do as we kind of work our way through this moment. And my own parents recently went through the same thing that this woman's parents went through. That is to say they moved into a new community and it was hard for them, but particularly my mom became involved in this garden community. And I mean, there's something about taking action.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

That can open up doors.

[Craig Robinson]

I think you're absolutely right. One of the other things I hear in this question is that Makes me kind of sad. But it's something to tie into, is that the listener's mother has expressed a fear and a hesitation around the possibility of building new community because of the potential for loss.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Craig Robinson]

And I. I think that's worth her daughter, their family, trying to unpack a little bit. Right. Because it is completely right that building community is the focus. But if you're afraid of that, if the very thought of, you know, doing that work and taking that kind of action makes you afraid because you could lose something.

[Michelle Obama]

Yes.

[Craig Robinson]

Oh, it's like, well, then you're. You could be stuck. And, you know, it's part of friendship is taking that risk of loss. And it. And it doesn't change because we're older. In fact, that's always the case with friendship.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, it's always the case with friendship. But I think specific to aging, you will lose folks.

[Craig Robinson]

Exactly.

[Michelle Obama]

You are going to lose them naturally. That's just.

[Craig Robinson]

That's a part of it.

[Michelle Obama]

It's a part of it. I know, and I'm not quite there yet, but we're headed there, God willing, in a weird way. But maybe doing a deep dive into that fear is probably worth it for her mom to do.

[Craig Robinson]

I had to, probably in my position as first lady, just as an object point for the listening. I mean, one could have argued that there was every reason in the world for me in that position, me and my husband, to be afraid of making new friends. Right?

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, Very good point.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah. You sort of think about it. In fact, I know one of the things that Craig said when Barack ran and won, you may want to share.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

That was no new friends.

[Craig Robinson]

Right.

[Michelle Obama]

You said, don't make new friends.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

I said that to Misha and Barack. I was like, watch out. And I couldn't have been more wrong.

[Craig Robinson]

Right. And.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, but that's fascinating. Yeah. Yeah.

[Craig Robinson]

Because the automatic feeling which would be natural is you gotta watch who you associate with in this position.

[Michelle Obama]

You don't know what their intentions are.

[Craig Robinson]

Precisely. You know, So I understood the sentiment of the warning and as my big brother, you know, and we came from a already big established community. Right. So it wasn't like we were going into this thing without a support. Right.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Craig Robinson]

But the difference for me was that I still had little kids. Right. I mean, our. My girls were 10 and 7, moving into a new neighborhood, a new community. And my whole goal was to normalize their experience, to not make them feel like these odd little kids with Secret Service that were outsiders, which meant that I couldn't. I didn't have the luxury of saying no new friends. Right. Because when you're raising your kids, you have to be a part of a bigger community that they're in.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. Otherwise you're screwed.

[Craig Robinson]

Otherwise you're screwed. It was exactly the way it was. So that push, that necessity was the absolute best thing. You know, leaning into that fear, into that caution. It was the best thing that I did for myself and for my family. And my point to the listener is that I learned is that it was absolutely worth it. And it was probably a very scary experience because it was not only we not only faced the risk of loss, disappointment, but we could have met people who were meant us no good, who we couldn't trust, who, you know, gossiped about us, who, you know, sold stories to. There were many things that could have gone wrong.

[Michelle Obama]

Right.

[Craig Robinson]

But the truth is, is that most people are really good folks.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Craig Robinson]

You know, even when you're in a high powered position, most people are open to the new.

[Michelle Obama]

And I would say too, in that circumstance, you're there, you're sort of looking at the community where your children are going to school. You need to get to know these parents.

[Natalie]

Exactly.

[Michelle Obama]

As a parent you must.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

And so your goal is not necessarily going in it to make friends. Your goal is to understand where they are and then out of that comes relationships that you could count on.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

It's pretty interesting actually. It's really. It's like fame on steroids.

[Craig Robinson]

Exactly.

[Michelle Obama]

It really is.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

Because I, I had a. Had that on a much smaller scale. Same kind. You know, when you're a famous person, it's weird getting out there sometimes and you. And people approach you and you're not sure what their intentions are about. So if there's a way to, I.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Don'T know what, through an action, through.

[Michelle Obama]

A community, through where there's sort of common ground as there was at school, for example. I mean, I don't know how your husband did it.

[Craig Robinson]

Well, he was dragged into it along with me because he also had the barrier of no time. Right. I mean, but in the face of that, because of my focus and determination and his interest, it was like, no, you gotta go to parent teacher conference. And he wanted to go.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Craig Robinson]

It's like, even if you don't have to go, you have to go.

[Michelle Obama]

Right.

[Craig Robinson]

You know, you have to get the school normalized to you being the type of engaged parent that you were before election night.

[Michelle Obama]

That's right.

[Craig Robinson]

And you were the father that went to parent teacher conference.

[Michelle Obama]

Right.

[Craig Robinson]

You were the father that would coach your Girls basketball game, league. And he did.

[Michelle Obama]

I know he did.

[Craig Robinson]

But all of this is to say to our listener for her mother is it's worth the risk. People will be waiting out there with open arms. People are kinder, even though it doesn't feel that way these days.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Craig Robinson]

I've been in our country, and I've been in every angle of it, and it doesn't change overnight. And the vast majority of American people are good people.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. And they want to connect.

[Craig Robinson]

They want to connect.

[Michelle Obama]

And connection is the answer. The connection answer.

[Craig Robinson]

The answer.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

I love that. I love that. But I also want to address a little bit because Andrea is trying to help Sharon navigate this to your point. The daughter becoming the mother.

[Michelle Obama]

Tell me about it.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

The husband is still there, and I.

[Craig Robinson]

I think, totally lost him.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

I know, I know, I know.

[Craig Robinson]

It's like.

[Michelle Obama]

That's. Sorry.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

That's why I'm here.

[Michelle Obama]

Sorry, sir.

[Craig Robinson]

She's not a widow.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

She's not a widow.

[Craig Robinson]

Although it sort of sounds like she is.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

But that's my point. That's my point. I mean, this community shouldn't just be her community.

[Michelle Obama]

Tell me about it.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

He should be trying to help bring the male voice. And I'm just saying this because when we were talking about this, this was such a foreign concept to me as a man. As a man. Just the kind of guy that I am that I would want. First, I would want to know that my wife is suffering from this loneliness because if we up and moved to North Carolina, I'd be trying to find somebody to play hoops with or golf with or go to the cigar store with or, you know, whatever. I wouldn't be trying to help her get inserted in the community. But I think that should be a team effort as opposed to just.

[Michelle Obama]

It's good to have a partner, and she has a partner, so it's time for her partner to step up. Up.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

So that's some advice that we could give Andrea is talk to your dad.

[Michelle Obama]

Talk to your dad.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Your dad involved in this, too?

[Craig Robinson]

Where's dad?

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Yeah.

[Craig Robinson]

Is he. Yeah. Is he sitting in the chair doing the same thing, like, over and over and over again, or is he trying to think of ways for them to creatively connect together and then in their community? Great, great point.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Craig Robinson]

Craig. Well, I appreciate Robinson. So do you think that you, in your marriage, have you.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Well, we're not. We're not at a point, but think ahead. Well, I'm thinking. All right, I'll think ahead, because we're not at a point now.

[Craig Robinson]

We're so around the corner there.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

But when the kids are going to be old enough to go to college.

[Michelle Obama]

How old are the youngest ones again?

[Unknown Male Speaker]

15 and 13. So we got six years. Six years. And six years, like that will be empty nest. And our plan is to figure out the most optimal place to be where we can enjoy them the most.

[Michelle Obama]

Yep. That's smart.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

But we're not gonna. We're not planning on jettisoning our friends because we're empty nesters. And I've always thought you all do a great job of that with your friends because your girls are grown and you intentionally get together with your friends on a regular basis.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. You have to be intentional.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, I do the same thing. But I have advice for you for when your kids, when the younger kids leave in five years, not six, by the way.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Five and a half. Yeah, you're right.

[Michelle Obama]

But anyway, what I want to tell you is you just make sure that after they leave, all their. The sheets on their bed are high quality sheets. And that bed is the most comfortable bed they ever slept in in their life. And they'll always come back.

[Craig Robinson]

Oh, gosh ye.

[Michelle Obama]

I'm actually creating you. That's true.

[Craig Robinson]

No, no. Barack and I, we are all about creating what we call the attractive nuisance, you know?

[Michelle Obama]

Thank you.

[Craig Robinson]

We just, we want to make it so that you want to be back here. Yes. And we're starting. They're old enough now, Right. Because there's that period when they just leave and they're in their early 20s and they're just like, bye, see ya. We're living our lives and we're so happy to be sleeping on a dirty mattress in college. And they're just now getting to the point where they hang around just a little a coup days longer because the tub is clean, right?

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, that's right.

[Craig Robinson]

And they're bath salts.

[Michelle Obama]

They're bath salts. They smell good, and there's a lot of stuff in their fridge.

[Craig Robinson]

That's right. That's right. That's what they say. And there's food we can actually eat.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

I like, I, I like the sheets idea, though. That's a, that's a tricky one because they wouldn't necessarily figure that out.

[Michelle Obama]

They get used to the foulness.

[Craig Robinson]

That's. That's right.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

This is it. Your moment to chase those experiences you've been dreaming about. That cooking class in Tuscany, that yoga retreat in Bali. The cross country road trip with your best friends. Your home can help make it happen with Airbnb. The beauty of Airbnb is how effortlessly. It fits into the life you want to create. Host when it suits you on terms that feel right with complete control over your space. Seeing travelers appreciate your bookshelf collection or the garden you've nurtured over the years reminds you what a special place you've created. And when you return from your own adventures, your your space welcomes you back. Airbnb isn't about adding stress to your life. It's about creating options. Options to travel, to explore, to say yes to opportunities. Because you've built a simple, smart way to fund them. Your next chapter deserves to be as extraordinary as the wisdom you've earned. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how [e-mail] host hey, Julia Louis Dreyfus here. If you listen to me on my Wiser Than Me podcast, you probably already know that I'm an investor and an evangelist for the Mill Food Recycler. There are a lot of reasons to love mill, but for me, it's all about the impact. Keeping food out of the garbage is one of the most powerful things we can do to help the planet every single day. We're talking banana peels, carrot tops, old takeout. When that stuff heads to the landfill, it becomes a huge driver of climate change. If you already compost, great. But of course, there's the smell, the flies, the running to the curb every day with a little leaking compost bag made of cornstarch. That's where mill comes in. It makes keeping food out of the trash as easy as dropping it in. It can handle nearly anything from a turkey carcass to like 20 avocado pits. It works automatically while you sleep. You can keep filling it for weeks and it never, ever smells. Mill makes dry, nutrient rich grounds that you can use in your garden and add to your compost feed to your chickens. Or mill can get them back to a small farm for you. But you kind of have to live with mill to really get it, and that's why they offer a risk free trial. Go to mill.com wiser for an exclusive offer. Summer tends to reveal which clothes were worth buying. Trendy, inexpensive pieces often don't hold up. They lose their shape or look dated after just a few months. The alternative is simple. Choosing well made pieces designed to last through seasons. It comes down to three breathable fabrics, quality construction, and timeless styling. It's a real summer styling paradox. The fewer pieces you're wearing, the harder each one has to work. And when the heat hits, just throwing something on suddenly requires way more thought than it should. This is why you have to check out Quince. Their pieces are designed to solve exactly this problem so you can spend more time actually enjoying the weather. Their collection is full of summer shortcuts. Think 100% European linen tops starting at $30. Washable silk dresses and skirts and soft cotton sweaters. Versatile warm weather pieces you'll reach for again and again. Something to love about this brand is that behind every piece is a commitment to doing things right. Quince partners only with factories that meet rigorous ethical standards where skilled artisans craft each item with premium materials and responsible practices. Give your summer closet an upgrade with quince. Go to quince.com wiser for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com wiser to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com wiser. You may know the cute Aflac duck, but did you know Aflac is a leader in supplemental insurance? Well, Aflac is here to help help with something most people don't think about until they're in the middle of it the gap between what health insurance covers versus what it doesn't. Aflac offers supplemental insurance that can help you with expenses health insurance doesn't cover because even with good health insurance, if you get sick or injured, you can still be left with out of pocket expenses. Aflac can help with the part that may not be covered, which can hit your wallet when life already feels overwhelming. Aflac pays cash that can be used to help with anything you choose in your time of need that could be towards medical bills like co pays or prescriptions or even everyday expenses to help keep life going while you focus on getting better. And that's really what it's about, helping provide peace of mind, knowing that if something happens, you're not alone. Aflac is here and they can help provide a financial safety net. Get help with expenses health insurance doesn't cover. Visit aflac.com to learn more.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Julia, I want to ask you a question.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

What are some of the strategies that you use to keep your friends? Who are your friends?

[Michelle Obama]

Well, I've got friends from different sections of my life, right? We travel a lot together and my group of friends from elementary school, we try to have a reunion once a year somewhere. We all get together and, and it's so funny. You become it's like you're 12 again. We start howling, laughing over the dumbest things you ever heard of in your life. And so I make particularly nowadays I'M making a real effort to have adventures with these people.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah, travel is a good thing. We do a lot of that stuff. You know, joining crafts, taking up hobbies with your friends, trying some, you know, so you don't know how to.

[Michelle Obama]

What hobbies have you taken up?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

What crafts?

[Craig Robinson]

Well, you know, we've had. I've had girlfriends who have organized some Zumba classes, hip hop classes that we said to do more of, you know, so I'm saying to our listeners, Sharon, you know, some of the ideas, it's like, you know, you can get your girls together from around the country to try a new thing. You know, they can come and visit you, and you set up a cook, or you learn how to knit, or you take up tennis. Right. Now, several of my girlfriends have gotten into playing tennis. And we don't always get to play together, but when we are together, now that there are many who have taken lessons and taken up the sport, we'll go find a court, we'll hit. And that has become a bonding opportunity.

[Michelle Obama]

By the way, tennis, I heard, is supposed to be so good for aging.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Did you hear that?

[Craig Robinson]

I've heard. Yeah, I've heard it.

[Michelle Obama]

It has something to do with the. It's the mind.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Eye coordination.

[Michelle Obama]

I'm not sure exactly. And also the. The lateral movement as well as the pounding.

[Craig Robinson]

Yep.

[Michelle Obama]

But. And I can't say anything more than that. But anyway, do it. Yeah, yeah, just do it.

[Craig Robinson]

Well, the. The advice is that, you know, learning something new. Correct. With your friends or with a new group of people. That's another. If we're talking about ideas that we have for building community, new community or sustaining old community, that's, you know, I mean, a lot of my friends, we just figure out something new. We wanna learn, we wanna try, and we do it together. It's more fun to do it together. But intentionality is, as you mentioned, Julia is a word for the day. And if Sharon goes to her new place and she sits in her fear and her loneliness and she says. And she bemoans what she lost and doesn't think about ways of viewing this as a new opportunity to stay open and to meet new people and not to focus on the possibility of loss, there are so many ways to break out, to break out and not be alone.

[Michelle Obama]

That's right.

[Craig Robinson]

I think we live in a culture nowadays, and it's not just older people, but unfortunately, younger folks who have lived through Covid. They've gotten too attached to their phones. They live online. I mean, this is why studies are showing that we're seeing unprecedented levels of loneliness and anxiety because we've gotten out of the habit of building friends, building community, or the understanding that as humans, that's something that we need.

[Michelle Obama]

We need each other.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah. It is not a luxury.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, right, Exactly. It's a necessity.

[Craig Robinson]

Right, right. Our phones are not a necessity. Our phones are a luxury.

[Michelle Obama]

Right.

[Craig Robinson]

And they cannot replace the thing that community and friendship provides to us, regardless of the age, but especially as we get older and because we know that we're gonna experience loss, that. That's the end of the story, you know?

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Yeah.

[Craig Robinson]

And, you know, I would want Sharon to keep that muscle of community building active.

[Michelle Obama]

Yes.

[Craig Robinson]

Because it is a muscle. You know, if you get out of the habit of starting a new. Learning something new, you know, that's what's ahead of me. I'm 61, and all I'm thinking about in the future is what new things am I gonna learn?

[Michelle Obama]

What are you gonna learn?

[Craig Robinson]

You know, right now, I'm focused on tennis. You know, I don't know. Maybe I'll go back to the piano one day. It was an instrument that I started to play as a little girl. Haven't touched it since then, but maybe. Maybe.

[Michelle Obama]

Why not?

[Craig Robinson]

And find the time to start taking lessons?

[Michelle Obama]

You know, I'm doing tennis, too. My husband gave me tennis lessons for my birthday, so I'm gonna do that. But. And I'm taking French lessons now.

[Craig Robinson]

Okay. Yeah. From scratch. Had you ever seen.

[Michelle Obama]

I know. I do know some French, but I'm trying to, like, take it up a level now. That's my goal. Oh, I hope I can do it.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah. But all these new activities for Sharon are an opportunity, especially if you do them in groups. If you sign up for a tennis clinic, you're gonna meet somebody. Totally. I would just say don't do things in isolation, in solo.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Craig Robinson]

You know, take some classes, go into community, join a gy. And as we get older, we should embrace the fact that we have more time, you know, I mean, we aren't parenting our kids anymore. They are parenting us. We're not worrying about whether they're getting home on time or whether they did their homework. I mean, this stage in life for me, for me personally, is the first time that I've been completely free.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. There's a real release where every choice.

[Craig Robinson]

That I make in my life is not about my husband, not about his career, not about what my kids need or where they're going. It's totally about me and Sharon, you know, if she thinks about it, like that, wow, she's got a new freedom. She's starting over in a new city. There's so much to learn and to see and to do. It's like, this is. This is when we start living, ladies.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Craig Robinson]

This is the age when we're free.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Well, you both have talked about maintaining friendships. Have either of you. Julia, have you or Mish, have you lost any friends at this stage? Have you? And if so, what are some strategies on how to bounce back from that?

[Michelle Obama]

Well, it sort of depends on what the circumstances are. I mean, I've lost friends. I've had a couple friends die. And that has been devastating because it was just truly unfair of the universe. So I'd like to lodge a complaint, but. So that's just a lot of grief to reconcile. And grief is sort of a separate. I mean, grief from actual loss of life is its own thing. But then I've also lost friends because we sort of moved on. And there's something kind of freeing about that. You know, a couple of relationships that were a little bit toxic had me doubting myself too much and head games and stuff. And there was a moment in which it was like, oh, oh, yeah, right. I don't have to do this anymore.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

And how about you?

[Craig Robinson]

Oh, for sure. For sure. Both. Both. And, you know, and I've experienced loss of friends throughout my life. I mean, one of my best friends from college died suddenly of lymphoma, you know, at the tender age of the 20, in our 20s. You know, and, you know, that's a. Like you said, that's a different kind of loss than losing your grandmother or losing, you know, someone. And. Yeah, it's not the natural order. Order. And I think for me, that loss woke me up at a time in life when I was just starting to define myself as a young adult and a young professional. That was the time in my life where I thought, well, what am I doing with my life? Right, right. She lost hers. And there was no reason. She was one of the sweetest, kindest people that I ever knew. So it made me think, well, do I really wanna finish out this life on the 47th floor as an associate in a big corporate law firm?

[Michelle Obama]

Sounds fabulous.

[Craig Robinson]

Is that my fate? Is that why I'm left here? And she, you know, and the answer to that was, nah, there's gotta be something more, you know, and what am I afraid of? And that decision as a result of that loss opened my eyes to not the nonprofit world, city government, public service, you know, so that loss turned out to be one of the things that provided me with the foundation of who I am. Yes, but they're definitely the friendships that, like you said, Julia, just sort of ran their course, you know, that's okay. And as I age, I am more grateful every day. Of the friendships that I've invested in and maintained. They are my lifeblood. And I love my husband, and we are dear friends, but we don't do the same things all the time. We have different interests, and we have.

[Michelle Obama]

And I think that's healthy.

[Craig Robinson]

It is completely healthy that way. And we have wonderful times apart, and we travel differently. And he'll go off with his friends in golf, and I'll hike a mountain, which he's not gonna do, you know? Definitely not. So I would hope that for Sharon and her husband, that it becomes even more important with him alive that they continue to build together and separately.

[Michelle Obama]

By the way, they're still young. 68.

[Craig Robinson]

68.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Really?

[Michelle Obama]

Come on. Not even 78.

[Craig Robinson]

Now is not the time to tap out.

[Michelle Obama]

No, do not tap out too much.

[Craig Robinson]

This is just the beginning, you know, it only gets better.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Well, just for clarity for Andrea.

[Michelle Obama]

Yes.

[Craig Robinson]

Yes.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Let's give Andrea some strategies to take back to Sharon. And the biggest one I'm hearing is your community. Right.

[Michelle Obama]

I actually think she should start by talking to her dad.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Okay. That was on my list, too, but.

[Michelle Obama]

That was down for bring dad into this situation. This is not her burden alone. Yeah. And. But community. Community. Community.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Okay.

[Michelle Obama]

Surely. Surely she has some interests that they can.

[Craig Robinson]

She was a cultivate. Correct. Do I get that right?

[Michelle Obama]

That I think her husband was.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

The husband is the professor.

[Craig Robinson]

But she was a professional.

[Michelle Obama]

Well, she was a professional, and she worked at the university, so.

[Craig Robinson]

So she's. She's got interest. The second thing I would say is intentionality. It's like friendship and community doesn't happen on its own. I don't care who you are or, you know, how wonderful a person you are, whether you're shy or outgoing. Friendship requires intentionality.

[Michelle Obama]

That's right.

[Craig Robinson]

Planning, scheduling, prioritizing, all of it has to be a part of it. It does take work.

[Michelle Obama]

Say yes. Say yes.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

Say yes.

[Craig Robinson]

Say yes.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Well, you know, this has been really helpful for me, and I hope it's helpful for Andrea and Sharon.

[Michelle Obama]

That's why. Yeah.

[Craig Robinson]

Thank you, Julia. It's great spending time with you.

[Michelle Obama]

So nice to spend time.

[Craig Robinson]

You are a wise woman.

[Michelle Obama]

Wise. Ish.

[Unknown Male Speaker]

Wiser than most.

[Michelle Obama]

Thank you, guys.

[Craig Robinson]

Thank you. Foreign.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

This is it. Your moment to chase those experiences you've been dreaming about. That cooking class in Tuscany, that yoga retreat in Bali. The cross country road trip with your best friends. Your home can help make it happen with Airbnb. The beauty of Airbnb is how effortlessly it fits into the life you want to create. Host when it suits you on terms that feel right with complete control over your space. Seeing travelers appreciate your bookshelf collection or the garden you've nurtured over the years reminds you what a special place you've created. And when you return from your own adventures, your space welcomes you back. Airbnb isn't about adding stress to your life. It's about creating options. Options to travel, to explore, to say yes to opportunities because you've built a simple, smart way to fund them. Your next chapter deserves to be as extraordinary as the wisdom you've earned. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how [e-mail] host.