With The Perrys — “Cults, Neo-Prosperity Gospel and the Church”
Release Date: March 11, 2024
Hosts: Jackie Hill Perry, Preston Perry
Guest: Dr. Eric Mason
Overview
This episode tackles the influence of cults, the rise of neo-prosperity gospel in modern church culture, and the challenges and opportunities facing the American church today—especially within Black communities. Jackie and Preston Perry hold an honest and humorous conversation with Dr. Eric Mason (pastor, author, and theologian), unpacking themes like religious identity, discipleship failures, cultural trends in faith, and the need for re-centering Christ in church life. The Perrys and Dr. Mason discuss how churches, leaders, and everyday believers can respond to the allure of cults, shifting the focus back to biblical faithfulness, and address the sacredness (or lack thereof) in contemporary Christian spaces.
Key Points & Insights
1. Cultural Principalities and Cities
[00:40 – 02:51]
- The hosts joke about the “spirits” and unique challenges in cities like Atlanta (greed, lust), Chicago (anger, violence), Boston (intellectualism), and Miami (sensuality), highlighting how spiritual culture shapes both church and society.
- “I do believe that there are principalities over places where you see... cultural emphasis.” — Jackie Perry [02:08]
2. Urban Apologetics & Black Identity
[02:57 – 05:36]
- Dr. Mason’s motivation behind writing “Urban Apologetics: Cults and Cultural Ideologies” was to address deep identity questions in the Black community: “Who are we? Not just who are we in Christ, but where do I come from?” [03:24]
- The book dives into the mishmash of competing Black identity claims (Moors, Hebrew Israelites, Nubians) and their religious intersections, and why cults gain traction.
- Dr. Mason: “There’s no people in the world that has the most historically confusing identity [than African Americans].” [03:45]
- Christians need to become better thinkers and more missional: “I don’t think we do evangelism no more. I think we just attract people to stuff.” [05:29]
3. Why Don’t People Read or Think Deeply Anymore?
[05:39 – 06:36]
- Dr. Mason blames shrinking attention spans and the shift from reading to consuming short-form digital content.
- “If something’s artistically done well and intellectually delectable enough in a sound bite, they’ll accept it as an original source.” [05:58]
4. The Church’s Evangelism Crisis
[06:37 – 07:52]
- Christians today may feel embarrassed about Christianity due to “church hurt” and a desire for cultural acceptance.
- “Christians are embarrassed of being Christians in some ways nowadays.” — Dr. Mason [06:54]
- Syncretism is a growing problem, with churches absorbing cultural trends instead of shaping culture prophetically.
5. Cultural “Passes” and Perceived Hypocrisy
[07:53 – 10:33]
- Preston asks why behaviors accepted in other faiths (like Islam) draw harsher judgment when found in Christianity.
- Dr. Mason suggests it’s because, deep down, people sense Christianity’s truth claims—so the standard is higher, the hypocrisy more glaring.
- “Islam can get away with... but then if we do it, we’re hypocrites.” — Dr. Mason [09:19]
6. Defining “Cult,” “Cultic,” and “Cultish” Tendencies
[10:34 – 15:23]
- Dr. Mason lays out three categories:
- Cult: Claims exclusive truth, isolates followers, uses deception.
- Cultic: Has some behaviors/tendencies of a cult (overly controlling, e.g., prosperity gospel).
- Cultish: Micro-control, e.g., when churches pressure members about attendance or other minor life aspects.
- “Whenever you take Christ out the center, you’ve automatically become some type of cult.” — Dr. Mason [15:21]
7. Why Cults Target Christians
[16:07 – 18:16]
- Most major cults and alternative religions (Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Nation of Islam, Hebrew Israelites, etc.) focus on winning former/professing Christians.
- “They prey on the fact that traditionally we’re good at gathering people but not forming people.” — Dr. Mason [17:21]
- The church’s lack of solid discipleship leaves many vulnerable to doctrinal confusion and cultural counterfeits.
8. The Problem of Shallow Discipleship
[18:17 – 20:32]
- Most believers can’t answer basic theological questions about the Trinity, Christ’s divinity/humanity, or scriptural authority.
- “Sometimes it’s just stuff you should just know... and that’s the humanism that’s seeped into Christianity.” — Dr. Mason [19:27]
9. Black Communities: Knowledge Gaps or Just a Public Perception?
[20:33 – 23:07]
- Discipleship is happening, but there’s an “appetite” problem—bad theology and viral but shallow content spread easily.
- Dr. Mason prophesies a “pruning” in leadership, church memberships, and even church existence itself—God is calling for holiness, mission, and authenticity.
10. Season of Pruning and Revival
[23:08 – 27:06]
- God is pruning false teachers and exposing scandals.
- Church rosters and even whole churches will be “pruned out of existence” if they fail to represent Christ’s reign.
- Dr. Mason: “He wants us to be missionaries again... wants us to care about holiness again...” [24:24]
11. Leaning Into Pruning and Suffering
[27:07 – 28:18]
- “Suffering is one of those mechanisms of spiritual formation in our life.” — Dr. Mason [28:06]
- Christians need to be equipped for suffering; it’s a normalized part of discipleship according to Acts 14.
12. Deconstruction: Two On-Ramps
[28:19 – 32:09]
- Disappointment: Pain over church failures, hypocrisy, or racial wounds.
- Moral License: Wanting freedom for personally-desired behaviors (e.g., “I want to smoke this weed, I want to smash…”)
- Deconstruction can be honest and healthy or an excuse for self-justification.
- “99.9%... it was fundamentally moral.” — Dr. Mason [30:17]
13. Identity, Deconstruction, and Alternative Communities
[32:10 – 35:32]
- Many seeking deeper identity or “being seen” leave the church for groups that affirm Black dignity (Hebrew Israelites, Nation of Islam, witchcraft communities).
- Dr. Mason: The church must be a place for skepticism, honest questions, and “Doubt Night”—“God’s not scared of any question you got, fam.” [34:54]
14. What Makes a Good Church? Non-Negotiables and Practical Red Flags
[35:33 – 42:38]
- Essential marks: preaching/teaching, worship, evangelism, elders/deacons, church discipline, sacraments.
- Don’t equate popular/big churches with faithful ones—many are drawn by production and personalities, not spiritual depth.
- “Open-handed issues” (e.g. music style) vs. “close-handed” (core doctrine/Christ centeredness).
15. Sacredness (or Lack Thereof) in the Pulpit
[42:39 – 48:00]
- There’s a contemporary trend toward informality, humor, and relatability, sometimes at the expense of reverence.
- Dr. Mason warns about preachers seeking laughs or attention: “We can’t story people to death... can’t rhetorical language people to death.” [43:47]
- Levity is good, but don’t distract or diminish God’s word from the pulpit.
16. Neo-Prosperity Gospel Explained
[49:59 – 52:22]
- Neo-prosperity gospel is a “purpose-driven” distortion: “If you find your purpose, you’ll be rich.”
- True purpose is the Great Commission and serving God; doctor/lawyer/writer is an assignment, not a purpose.
- Current culture blends self-realization with prosperity narratives, repackaging greed as “destiny” or “calling.”
- “Every big movement… there’s always going to be a spiritualized version of it in the church.” — Dr. Mason [53:36]
17. Greed, Self-Centered Hermeneutics and the Danger of Subtle Prosperity Teaching
[54:36 – 63:33]
- The prosperity gospel and its softer “purpose-driven” forms both remove Christ from the center.
- Subtle versions of greed drive self-centered reading of scripture and church culture: “What are you trying to communicate to me? That’s the neo-prosperity gospel.” — Dr. Mason [59:47]
- Pastors must confess temptations toward self-glorification and regularly examine motives.
18. Rebranding the Church: Returning to Christ-Centeredness
[63:34 – 66:16]
- Rebranding isn’t reinvention, but returning to being the church “the way God designed it”—marked by the glory and presence of Jesus.
- “Not just having answers with our lips, but also having answers with our life… at least be in process, not being defiant.” — Dr. Mason [65:40]
19. Final Encouragement
[66:17 – End]
- Dr. Mason’s prayer: readers and listeners will “be passionate about being responsible for the Christian faith. Own it… like Kobe Bryant. Take it seriously. Take it as your craft.” [66:26]
Notable Quotes
- Dr. Eric Mason: “Whenever you take Christ out the center, you’ve automatically become some type of cult.” [15:21]
- Dr. Eric Mason: “They prey on the fact that traditionally we’re good at gathering people but not forming people.” [17:21]
- Dr. Eric Mason: “God is going to be removing… churches are going to literally be coming out of existence because God is like, you’re not going to go plant rebelly out here. And I’m not even lighting this lampstand.” [24:24]
- Jackie Hill Perry: “When I think about how the teaching now has such a self-centered hermeneutic. Is that not greed? Is that not reinforcing a lack of self-denial?” [58:54]
- Dr. Eric Mason: “I just want to see us shine well… not just having answers with our lips, but also having answers with our life.” [65:16]
- Dr. Eric Mason: “Be passionate about being responsible for the Christian faith. Own it.” [66:26]
Timestamps by Topic
- Cultural Spirituality in Cities: 00:40–02:51
- Urban Apologetics & Black Identity: 02:57–05:36
- Short Attention Spans & Shallow Thinking: 05:39–06:36
- Church’s Evangelism Crisis: 06:37–07:52
- Cultural “Passes” for Islam vs. Christianity: 07:53–10:33
- Defining Cult/Cultic/Cultish: 10:34–15:23
- Why Cults Target Christians: 16:07–18:16
- Shallow Discipleship & Vulnerability: 18:17–20:32
- Discipleship in Black Community/Public Perception: 20:33–23:07
- Season of Pruning & Revival: 23:08–27:06
- Suffering as Formation: 27:07–28:18
- Deconstruction: Causes & Responses: 28:19–35:32
- What Makes a Good Church?: 35:33–42:38
- Sacredness in the Pulpit: 42:39–48:00
- Neo-Prosperity Gospel: 49:59–53:36
- Cultural Trends Spiritualized: 53:37–54:36
- Subtle Greed and Platforming: 54:36–63:33
- Church Rebranding: 63:34–66:16
- Final Encouragement: 66:17–End
Episode Tone
Warm, direct, frequently humorous, and often prophetic—plenty of honesty and the kind of relational, real talk that’s both challenging and inviting to deeper reflection.
Recommended For:
Anyone wrestling with Christian identity, church culture, discernment of teaching, or the pull of alternative religious/identity movements—especially those inside African American church communities, church leaders, or anyone hungry for a return to biblical and missional Christianity.
Book Mentioned:
“Urban Apologetics: Cults and Cultural Ideologies” by Dr. Eric Mason