Infertility and Finding God After Unanswered Prayer with Jennifer Lucy Tyler

Summary

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Podcast Summary: With The Perrys

Episode: Infertility and Finding God After Unanswered Prayer with Jennifer Lucy Tyler
Date: October 6, 2025
Hosts: Preston Perry & Jackie Hill Perry
Guest: Jennifer Lucy Tyler

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Episode Overview

This powerful episode explores themes of infertility, unanswered prayers, and discovering deeper intimacy with God amid long seasons of waiting and disappointment. The Perrys welcome guest Jennifer Lucy Tyler, author of When Dreams Fall Apart: How Unanswered Prayers Can Deepen Your Intimacy with God, to share her deeply personal story of infertility, loss, faith, and the hard-won joys of motherhood. Through candid discussion, scripture reflection, and practical advice, the conversation offers hope and solidarity to anyone facing delayed or unmet desires—and shows how God’s presence and sovereignty meet us in uncertainty.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introducing Jennifer Lucy Tyler & Her Story

• Background: Jennifer introduces her book, born from years of waiting, loss, and wrestling with God's silence regarding infertility.
• Why Share the Story:

  "Every believer, every Christian… there’s something that they are praying for or trusting the Lord for that has not yet been answered. There’s a tension there. There’s that—I call it the 'messy middle.'"
  (Jennifer Lucy Tyler, 03:50)

2. Journey Through Infertility

• Jennifer’s Experience: Married in 2011, conceived quickly but miscarried, then years of infertility and shame followed. She questioned if she was doing something wrong, which led to internalized sorrow and anger towards God.

  "I thought I’m doing all the right things... I started comparing myself. I would see different people be blessed that I thought maybe didn’t deserve to be blessed in that way… So I struggled."
  (Jennifer, 07:14)

• Question of Faith: Wrestling with the idea that faith should produce results:

  "I had to unlearn some unhealthy views and theology about how I view God at the time… believing that my faith is able to produce everything that I want."
  (Jennifer, 09:00)

3. Theology of Unanswered Prayer & God’s Will

• Sovereignty vs. Faith:

  "I had to understand and learn about the sovereignty of God... it is 'his will be done, not my will.'"
  (Jennifer, 12:04)

• Allowing Room for Lament:
  Jennifer explains it's vital to create space to grieve unmet hopes.

  "It’s okay to go through a season of, you know, this is hard and sorrow with it. But I’m going to hope in who you are and trust that whatever you have for me is good."
  (Jennifer, 12:18)

4. The Impact on Husbands and Marriages

• Men’s Grief:
  Preston and Jennifer highlight the overlooked emotional burden men carry in infertility, often quietly:

  "He didn’t necessarily show that to me. But... by me seeing him stressed... that would also be even more painful for me."
  (Jennifer, 14:10)

• How Husbands Can Support:
  Jennifer urges men to honor the immediacy of a woman’s attachment to pregnancy and to care for their wives following loss and trauma.
  "The moment we get that positive pregnancy test, we are pregnant with child... an attachment starts from the moment we find out."
  (Jennifer, 17:17)

5. The Role of Community During the Wait

• Supporting Each Other:
  Community is vital in holding up those who are weary in faith, referencing Moses, Aaron, and Hur (Exodus 17).

  "Yes, I’mma take you out to eat... whatever I need to do to make sure that you do not grow weary in well doing. But I also need to do the due diligence of making sure you’re sitting on that rock."
  (Jackie, 45:51)

6. Lament as a Gift

• Embracing Lament:
  Lament is not to be rushed, but valued as “sorrow with hope.”

  "Lament is a gift… it’s healing to take time, to process, to grieve. Sometimes you gotta cry it out and you can’t rush through that."
  (Jennifer, 27:16)

• Biblical Example:
  Jackie reads from Lamentations 3, emphasizing the hope that emerges from honest sorrow. (28:25–28:40)

• Why We Avoid Grief:

  "People are just uncomfortable seeing other people grieve… They want to get you over to the other side instead of knowing how to sit with grief themselves."
  (Jennifer, 30:28)

7. The Mixed Emotions of Community & “Exile” in the Church

• Feeling Left Out:
  Jennifer describes the sense of “exile” experienced when life seasons change and former communities move on.

  "The church or people around you can unknowingly exile you... instead of just saying, just extending that invitation, still bringing me in if I wanted to be brought in."
  (Jennifer, 35:10–36:14)

• Navigating Blessing When Others Still Wait:
  Both sides must hope the best for one another and allow space for complex emotions (38:53–39:28).

8. Wrestling With Long-Term Unanswered Prayer

• Loss of Faith Over Time:
  Jennifer recounts a moment of deep discouragement after a second miscarriage, when community encouragement carried her (41:09–42:09).
• Women’s Unique Pressure:
  The added layer of biological limitation is discussed candidly:

  "Women have a different set of battles... my body, my ovaries, my fallopian tubes..."
  (Jackie, 42:14–42:33)

9. When the Joy Finally Arrives & Responsibilities of Answered Prayer

• Birth of Her Daughter:
  "That final little embryo, I got the courage to say, all right, let's try and. She was born August 15, 2023. Her name is Justice Joy."
  (Jennifer, 46:23)
• Stewarding the Answered Prayer:
  The joy of the blessing also entails new coping, sacrifices, and spiritual vigilance.

  "Now that the answered prayer is here, there were things that I needed to understand... a temptation to not be satisfied or to... idolize the answered prayer."
  (Jennifer, 47:08)

10. Encouragement for Listeners Still Waiting

• Hope in God, Not Outcomes:

  "Your story may not necessarily be my story... I share my story to encourage hope. But what I want you to have hope in is not in my story, not in my testimony, but in God."
  (Jennifer, 49:25)

• God’s Will & Sovereignty:

  "He wants to focus on: do you believe I am the God that can do all things?" (Preston, 51:05)

• Holy Spirit’s Work in Unanswered Prayers:
  Jackie highlights Romans 8:26—how the Spirit intercedes for us and God always answers according to our true needs in his wisdom (52:41–53:25).

11. The Lifeline of Scripture in Suffering

• Importance of Staying Rooted:

  "When you’re sitting with the text and allowing the Holy Spirit to minister... healing comes in that, grace comes in that, that gives you the power to endure."
  (Jennifer, 54:39)

• Temptations of Unhealthy Coping:

  "You may find yourself coping... by mindless scrolling, or alcohol, or whatever... My encouragement for anyone is… to use the scriptures to cope."
  (Jennifer, 55:37)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On faith and expectation:
  "I had to get to the place of ‘But God, what is your perfect will?’ and to be okay with his perfect will not looking like what I expected."
  – Jennifer Lucy Tyler (12:18)

• On grief as a gift:
  "Lament is simply sorrow with hope."
  – Jennifer Lucy Tyler (27:15)

• On infant loss:
  "Miscarriages are traumatic... her body has went through some trauma... I need to care for her."
  – Jennifer Lucy Tyler (20:40)

• On the role of men:
  "A lot of times, men don’t have an outlet to actually show that expression in their house... He needed to process all of that as well."
  – Preston Perry (15:44), Jennifer Lucy Tyler (15:57)

• On spiritual honesty:
  "There was a time where I realized I had made this thing that I desired... an idol in my life."
  – Jennifer Lucy Tyler (23:30)

• On the faithfulness of God:
  "Even though my subtitle is how unanswered prayers can deepen your intimacy with God, we know that God does… answer prayers, but with that, there’s things that come with that."
  – Jennifer Lucy Tyler (48:37)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Jennifer's infertility journey & initial emotions (06:23–09:00)
• Deconstructing ‘just have faith’ theology (09:00–12:18)
• Lament and the God-given right to grieve (26:20–28:56)
• How and why to walk alongside others through waiting/pain (44:30–46:12)
• Birth of Jennifer's daughter and stewardship of blessing (46:23–48:37)
• Advice for others still waiting (49:18–51:32)
• Scripture’s role in seasons of disappointment (54:39–55:37)

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Tone & Style

The entire episode maintains the Perrys' signature warmth, candor, and humor, while honoring the sensitivity and depth of Jennifer’s journey. Spiritual truths are shared accessibly, with vulnerability—making this conversation both comforting and equipping.

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Closing Thoughts

Through Jennifer’s testimony and the Perrys’ reflections, listeners are reminded that faith is not a transaction; God’s answers are not always predictable, but his presence is faithful in every season. Biblical lament, honest community, and persistent reliance on God shape us during the “messy middle” of life—a truth for anyone facing waiting or disappointment.

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Find Jennifer Lucy Tyler’s book, "When Dreams Fall Apart: How Unanswered Prayers Can Deepen Your Intimacy with God," via the link in episode notes.

Transcript

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Foreign. Okay. Hi, guys.

[Preston Perry]

What up?

[Jackie Hill Perry]

We just had a very brief conversation about Preston having a pillow on his lap.

[Preston Perry]

Oh, wow. To cover, he'd be inviting people into all our little conversations.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

But it's funny. It's just.

[Preston Perry]

It's just comfortable because sometimes I get the Bible and then I can set it on, you know.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

You want a desk?

[Preston Perry]

Yeah, that'd be actually dope if we buy, like, little deskes.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

What?

[Preston Perry]

Brianna at Brianna Deses is crazy. Deses. I know that's not proper English, but sometimes, you know what I'm saying? Can I just. Can I just be a representation of where I came from?

[Jackie Hill Perry]

I just want people to know you know what I'm saying?

[Preston Perry]

In the hood, we say deses.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

There are people in. In the des that actually pronounce words correctly. That's a you problem.

[Preston Perry]

Yeah.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Do you not blame your demographic for choosing to say stuff the wrong way there? That has been such a test in our marriage. Sometimes when, like, we've been on public platforms, let me not say it. Cause then people gonna start watching. It's just Preston will just say stuff in my mind. I, in the moment, wanna correct it. Not to correct him, but so that he don't end up being embarrassed. I'll be looking out for you, man.

[Preston Perry]

You can go ahead and correct me. And it is what it is. I be saying a lot of stuff, right?

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Like dessis.

[Preston Perry]

Deses.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

That's crazy. Desk.

[Preston Perry]

Desk.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Say, act. Act. Say it in a sentence.

[Preston Perry]

See, I be. I know how to say the words right? I just.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

You know what I'm saying.

[Preston Perry]

I just be loose when I'm comfortable, but you be trying to expose me. It's all good. You like my shirt?

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Say Valentine's Day.

[Preston Perry]

Valentine.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

She.

[Preston Perry]

I'll be saying Valentine's.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

It's another word you say that. It just is. It got a strong hold on you. I don't know what it is.

[Preston Perry]

I don't know what it is either. Anyway, you like my shirt? It got my name on it.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Yeah. I'm sorry, Jennifer, for inviting you into. She over here looking like she's so sorry.

[Preston Perry]

She was looking like. Jackie's so judgmental. I saw it. Nope. I saw Jennifer. I saw the eyes.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

She was judging me. You was judging me.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

No, I wasn't. I get it.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

I just. I just, you know, it's just a. It's just a thing in the mirror. I'll just be like, ooh, that sentence was something right there. But let me not say nothing, because I gotta respect it. You know, I gotta just hold that on Anyway, Jennifer Lucy Tyler is joining us. You are one of those people. You know, everybody calls me by my whole name. Yeah, you are one of them people where when I think even this week, people were like, who you recording with? Jennifer Lucy Tyler? And I'm like, why? I keep saying her whole name. But to say Jennifer don't sound sufficient because, you know, you come from an era where there was a bunch of general Jennifer's, Jessicas, Ashley's, Amanda's, but Jennifer Tyler's like, ah, the Lucy. Yeah, just works.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

And the thing. I used to hate my middle name growing up, but as I got older, I was like, let me embrace this.

[Preston Perry]

Oh, see, that was your. So I was gonna ask. I didn't know if Lucy was your maiden name. And you want to keep it kind of how Jackie Hill Perry.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Right.

[Preston Perry]

Okay, cool. Cause Jackie didn't want to keep my name at first when we first met.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

We're here to talk to Jen. She was like, no, I want to be Jackie Hill.

[Preston Perry]

And I was like, that's not the way Covenant works.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

We're here to talk to you about you.

[Preston Perry]

So there's that.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

The Lord used your parents to name you Lucy.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yes, because I have two grandmothers who had that name.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Okay.

[Preston Perry]

Oh, that's dope.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

That's beautiful.

[Preston Perry]

That is a beautiful name.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

That's like your middle name, babe.

[Preston Perry]

You bet. Not.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Jen has a book called When Dream.

[Preston Perry]

She on one today.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

This is what happens when you start podcasting at 2 instead of. Because we usually shoot at 10. It's 2pm I'm winding down. When Dreams Fall Apart. How unanswered prayers can deepen your intimacy with God. When did you know that you should write a book about something that was actually hard to go through? Mm.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

I. I knew that what I was walking through needed to be shared with others because other people were walking through similar. And I realized that this is not just a me problem, but every believer experiences this. I mean, we do know that God answers prayer, but every believer, every Christian, if you ask them, there's something that they are praying for or trusting the Lord for that has not yet been answered. And so there's a tension there. There's that. I call it the messy midd. That can get a little crazy at times if you don't know who God is. And so I just wrote that to really walk with people. Not necessarily. I don't believe my book is a solution, like a self help kind of book, but it's like, all right, let's help you to be able to see God. In all of this, as you are wrestling and as you're walking through and as you're waiting for God to answer or perhaps he does answer, and you don't like the answer.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

You know that part that happens frequent, and it's what I have walked through and what I am continuing to walk through.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I know your. I don't know all of your story. I know a lot of it. Me and Jennifer met a couple years ago, I think at Jude 3.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yeah.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

But I feel like we followed each other for a minute.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yeah.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

And I know a big feature in your story was dealing with years of infertility.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yeah.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

We have women who are watching, who are listening, who are probably going through that, have been through that. And some people deal with it quietly, especially because I. I just know in the church where being a parent, being a mother, being pregnant comes with a lot of high esteem and gladness, and you could feel shame. Like, I'm always even careful when people been married for a year. Like, when y'. All. It's like, you don't. You don't know what they doing. Like, even those questions can provoke some type of something. So I guess I just want us to walk through that, using your story as a means to do it.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yeah. Gosh. So my husband and I got married in 2011, and we ended up getting pregnant our first year of marriage. And then I had a miscarriage. And after that miscarriage, you know, you go and you're trying again. And I always say, year one passed. Year two, three, four, five. And the years continue to pass. And at the time, I thought, what am I doing wrong? You know, Am I not saying the right things? Am I not praying the right prayers? And I started to look at myself and that a lot of shame came with that. A lot of sorrow, a lot of anger came with it.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Why anger?

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Because there was a time where I did not view God in the right light. I thought that I'm doing all the right things. I am checking the boxes, you know, I got with my husband, and I waited. We waited until we got married, did everything right. I'm serving you, you know? And my husband is an educator. Kids love him. And so I got a good baby daddy. I got a good baby daddy, all the things. And so. And then I would see other people, and I started comparing myself. I would see, you know, let me. Let me. I'm not even gonna say who I would see. I almost did. But I would see different people be blessed that I thought maybe didn't deserve to Be blessed in that way because maybe they didn't honor God in my eyes the way that I thought they should. And so I struggled. There was a season of struggling with disappointment, anger, shame, all of those things. And the Lord had to do some work on me in that time. And so we ended up a few years ago going through IVF and then having another miscarriage, even in that. And it was painful, you know. And so through that process, we did end up conceiving. It wasn't. It didn't look like how I thought it would look.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

What does that mean?

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Meaning I thought, well, I wanted to have a child. When I first got married, I was married at 29. My husband was 30. You know, we were young. Now I'm chasing today, I'm chasing a two year old around at. I'll be 44 next week.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Yeah, you know, and people think you lying, but you. She just looks, she just looks.

[Preston Perry]

Yeah, you look young.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Thank you, Lord. But I didn't expect that. That wasn't what was in my life plan or, you know, back on the, back in the day vision board, you know, and so, yeah, but God needed to do some work on my heart, I guess, through that process. And I had to unlearn some unhealthy views and theology about how I view God at the time. Give me one of them believing that my faith is able to produce everything that I want, you know.

[Preston Perry]

Wow.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Somebody would say now what you're saying now, Jen, because when we look at the Gospels, we got Jesus saying, and your faith made you well.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yes. Right, yes.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

And so how did you work through the tension of, I see you doing all the things for people because of faith.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yes.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

And I have faith.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Right.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

But it ain't working for me.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yeah.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Most of us in America just eat things that quite frankly will kill us. There's tons of processed foods, not enough vegetables and fruits. And if we do eat vegetables, we boil the life out of it. So that means many of us are actually 10, sometimes 15 years older on the inside than in our real age. But a major university study found a way to slow that down. And all it took was fill the greens. No diet changes, no new workouts, even though you should work out. Just feel the greens. Every fruit and vegetable and field of Greens is Dr. Solutions for specific health benefits for your cells, for your hearts, for your lungs, for your kidneys, for your metabolism and your weight, not your soul. You need Christ for that. But this is helpful. That gives me peace knowing that I can slow down how fast I am aging. So I can be there for all the saints.

[Preston Perry]

I personally love field of greens because it gives me so much energy throughout the day. And a lot of times when I'm on a go and on a run, I do not have the time to eat vegetables. And so to have a supplement that allows me to have my vegetable intake to give me the energy that I need throughout the day is clutch. One of the reasons why I decided to try field of greens is because I had. I've had digestive issues for quite some time. And so field of greens just kind of make the boo slide. It don't give you constipation problems. And that's just honesty.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

So I want to encourage you to join us to skip the untested green nasty drinks and go with field of greens. Check out the university study and get 20 off when you use promo code [e-mail] that's fieldogreens.com promo code perry.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

I had to understand and learn about the sovereignty of God and also that he wants us to have faith, but also it is his will be done, not my will.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

That's good.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

And so I had to learn that piece like, okay, God, you want me to have faith in who you are, and we know that you can do this. I know that you can open my womb. I know that you can give me a child. But I needed to get to the place of but God, what is your perfect will? And to be okay with his perfect will not looking like what I expected for it to look like. And that was hard. And in my book, I talk about, and I try to give space and room for people to lament the hard. That's good to know that it's okay to go through a season of, you know, this is hard and sorrow with it. But I'm going to hope in who you are and trust that whatever you have for me is good.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Yeah, that's great.

[Preston Perry]

I was looking up a scripture and I'm trying to find it, but it's a scripture that I'm going to keep looking for it. But before I get there, some years ago, like five years ago, I did a conference with this, with this lady who struggled with infertility, Right. And she talked about, like, her struggles and all the things. But what blessed me, she ended up talking about what her husband went through, through that process.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yes.

[Preston Perry]

And I think a lot of times, you know, we focus on the woman, which we should. I think men don't go through their bodies, don't go through nothing that, that women go through. Right. But I think a lot of times, you know, people forget that the husband struggles too, during that process. He struggles with loss, struggles with doubt, struggles with frustration. He's caring for you. You know what I'm saying? And so talk about the stress and the mental strain that your husband probably went through in that process.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

The stress and the mental strain that he went through, he did not show me. And I wish that he did at times, but he processed that with his community of men. And I realized through our conversations that he was hurting. Even though. Because I would wonder, was he hurting as much as I was? Because he didn't necessarily show that to me. But that was just because of his desire to protect me, his desire to care for me, and him knowing that by me seeing him stressed or upset about it, that would also be even more painful for me. But he did experience and have to process his own way of dealing with the infertility and therapy and with his brothers as well.

[Preston Perry]

Yeah. Because I've often heard that, you know, that when a woman is going through that type of mental wrestle with her body, the frustration of not being able to conceive a husband also carrying the emotional weight of his wife.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yes.

[Preston Perry]

But just being very careful to not show disappointment because we don't wanna invoke any other more shame on our wives. You know what I'm saying? It might be theirs. Cause like, you already dealing with your own shame.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yeah.

[Preston Perry]

But it's like, y' all in this together. So if you bring forth a baby, it's his baby too.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yes.

[Preston Perry]

And so I think, you know, a lot of times men don't have an outlet to. To actually show that expression in their house. And so he has to have brothers. That's good that he had brothers to, like, confide in.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

I'm so grateful he does, you know, because I realized that he needed to process all of that as well.

[Preston Perry]

Yeah. I found the scripture real quick. I'm gonna just read it. Cause I love the fact that you talked about the will. You know what I'm saying?

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Before you read that, can I just ask a question that is in the lane y' all are in real quick. Because I think I would love if both of you could speak to men about how to love their wives well in seasons of grief, especially as it relates to infertility. Because me and you have also experienced a situation with a friend who miscarried, and the husband felt like, because it wasn't a full grown baby, because she wasn't 38 weeks or 37 weeks, that.

[Preston Perry]

It wasn't that was a rough time walking him through that.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

It wasn't a big deal. And so she was grieving the death of this child, and he was treating it like it wasn't the death of a child. Yeah. And it really wasn't. You could tell he really didn't see it as it was. And so to me, you have the great husbands who are caring and who are loving, who are thoughtful. You have the other ones who might be leaning on the sociopathic scale. They just don't understand. And so how do we do this? Well, yeah, you go first.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

I think first, understanding that a woman's experience is going to be different from yours and how it's different. The moment we get that positive pregnancy test, we are pregnant with child. And we begin in our hearts and minds. We start to dream, we start to plan, we start to. We understand that, you know, we have conceived. And so an attachment starts from the moment we find out that, you know, we're pregnant. And so the husband may not. You may not necessarily have that attachment because it's not you carrying. And so a lot of times the husband's attachment tends to grow more. So when they see they can feel the baby, they can feel the baby, they can see. And then it's like, oh, no, there really is a human in there.

[Preston Perry]

That's good.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

So just understand that for us, it just starts from that moment and to just really treat your wife with honor and care. Understanding that.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

That's good. Yeah, that's great.

[Preston Perry]

I know the scripture tells us to love our wives as our own bodies, as ourselves, and a lot of times it's kind of hard because our experiences are so different.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yeah.

[Preston Perry]

The friend that he was talking. Jackie was talking about because he doesn't experientially know what it feels like to have a human being growing inside of you. I often think about that. Like, when my wife was pregnant, it's like you got a whole person inside of your body. That's why you eating all the chicken. It's like she used to be bashing food.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

But there was also a sense where the fullness of the revelation, just to use spiritual language, didn't happen until labor. Where it was like, oh, it isn't like you didn't know, but it's just. I think it's a different experience. So I can. I think speaking to what Jen is like, the detachment and attachment thing is a thing.

[Preston Perry]

Yeah. And I think men have to consistently communicate with their wives not to just know. Theoretically, be like, no, like, you have to truly understand what she's going through mentally, spiritually. And I think a big part of this is prayer. Because the conversation that I had with a friend that you're talking about, like, he didn't start to see until he started to pray. I was like, I don't think that your mind is going to understand until the Lord shows you that you are so emotionally disconnected to your wife in a way that's really hurting her, bro. And so I think you gotta pray like, lord, show me how to minister to my wife. Show me the depth of how much my wife is hurting. Give me the patience, give me the tenderness, give me the kindness, give me the wisdom to listen and not talk.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

That's great.

[Preston Perry]

Like you, like, you gotta ask God for things because if you go, if you go, especially with these life hard situations in it, on your own strength, on your own wisdom, you're gonna mess up.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yeah.

[Preston Perry]

And it's not. He wasn't a bad guy.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yeah.

[Preston Perry]

He just, he was just hurting her because he was just like, bro, you gotta take to the Lord.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Can I also add that miscarriages are traumatic.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Yes.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

You know, our body goes through different things. Whether you have to go to the hospital to get what's called a dnc or if you miscarry at home or another place, like, it is a traumatic experience. And so loving your wife, well, is understanding that her body has went through some trauma, you know, and I need to care for her.

[Preston Perry]

Yeah. I wanted to read the scripture because you talked about God allowing things according to his will. And I know sometimes in the church we can have this harmful theology that says if something didn't happen to you, it's because of your faith, you not believing, you not tearing it enough. And I think it's harmful theology in a lot of ways.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yeah.

[Preston Perry]

And First John 5, starting at the 14th verse, it says, and this is the confidence that we have towards him, that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. He hears us. And I think people don't, like, they have the faith part, but they often leave out the according to his will, he hears us. Because I think the truth is that God knew. Like Jackie has this amazing sermon about Hannah, Hannah who struggled with not being able to get pregnant. And it said that the Lord closed her womb.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Right.

[Preston Perry]

And so God knew your situation. And so you not getting pregnant wasn't because you didn't have enough faith. It's because God was trying to produce something in you. And if he would have gave you a baby back then, like his perfect will in your life probably wouldn't be fulfilled in that time. And that's what people don't realize. I think sometimes we put such a high emphasis on faith that we don't see that we're actually serving a sovereign God who knows all things. And at the. More than anything, he's trying to produce fruit in you.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yes.

[Preston Perry]

And so I guess my question with that is.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

That was a sermon. Yeah, that was good. I'm like, okay, Yeah.

[Preston Perry]

I guess my question is, what did God produce in you? Like, what kind of fruit did he produce in you as you were waiting?

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yeah. I think, well, some of the fruit he produced in me was joy. Like, joy, and not in a thing that he gives me. I had to learn how to walk in the joy of the Lord, even though this thing wasn't happening for me.

[Preston Perry]

Wow.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

That was something that it took time to really experience. Also, he produced. There was a time where I realized that I had made this thing that I desired, that I was praying for an idol in my life. And I think a lot of us do that, whether it's we're praying for a husband or anything else. And so I had made. And I didn't realize it at the time, but I had made that an idol in my life. Like, the desire consumed me instead of the desire for God and his will.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Perfect will.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

And so, yeah, that's some of what was produced.

[Preston Perry]

That's amazing.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

While y' all were talking, I just kept thinking about Abraham and how, you know, the Lord promises Abraham and Sarah, Sarai, whichever one you want to go with a child. And it's just years and. Just years. Yeah, just years that go by. But then, you know, got the baby. They have Isaac, all the stuff. And the God is like, yeah, I want you to sacrifice the baby. And I'm like, you, they've been waiting for decades for. For the son, and now you want him to give the son up.

[Preston Perry]

Wow.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

And then you know what? Abraham was like, bet. Okay, so gets the wood, goes to the mountain, all the stuff, going to sacrifice the boy.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Then the Lord's like, ah, ah.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

You ain't got to do it. You know what I'm saying? Because I know that you love me. And I remember when I was studying that text, I'm like, lord, you know everything. Yeah, you are like, you already knew he loved you, but in that test, it was words to affirm Abraham's love for him to know it. Yeah. And so tests. That's what they do, is they reveal the contents of your heart that you may not even see. And so at the same time that the Lord was producing things in you, I think the Lord was also confirming that you're his.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yes.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Like, no, she loves me. She's struggling. She got the stuff, but she's staying. Cause you got a lot of people that go through hard stuff and they don't stay put.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Right.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

You understand what I'm saying? So to me, that's encouraging to be like, oh, you done. You kept me. And I love you because you love me first. You know what I'm saying? You have chapters in your book that are written in these short words that also can produce a lot of thought. And so chapter one, barren, Chapter two, lament, Chapter three, exile. I think off topic, like, oh, you finna take me there. It's giving wilderness. I wanna. I wanna talk about lament.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Okay.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Because I do think that as Christians, and I think even in. I don't think it's specific to a demographic, but I even think sometimes in black church spaces, we have a lot of places for lament. And yet victory, joy, press forward, you know, where it can feel like you're forced out of grief prematurely or you're walking in unbelief because you shouldn't be sad that long. And so I guess talk to us about what you want us to know about lament.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Lament is a gift that the Lord has. He wrote a. It's a whole book called Lamb and Temptations, you know, and that book is in there for a reason, is to show us that the power of lament. And lament is simply sorrow with hope.

[Preston Perry]

Wow.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

And I believe that there is space for that. It's healing, you know, to take time, to process, to grieve. Sometimes you got to grieve, you got to cry it out. And you can't rush through that. The Lord does things in that, and we find comfort in that and in our lament, in our grief. We will come to that what I call the call to mind moment. But we can't rush people. We can't rush people to get to that call to mind moment. But that call to mind moment happens in Lamentations 3:20, I believe, where the writer calls to mind. He talks about before that. He talks about how he was depressed and all of these horrible things. But then he calls to mind.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Go ahead.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

You know, and then he says, therefore I have hope. And he begins to call to mind. I don't have the scripture up, but he calls to mind.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

You want me to read it?

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yes.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Okay. But this I call to mind, and therefore I have hope. The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases. His mercies never come to an end. They are new every morning. Great is your faithfulness the Lord. The Lord is my portion, says my soul. Therefore I will hope in him.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

And that's biblical lament. That is being at a place where I can grieve, I can have sorrow, but yet. Yet I'm able to call to mind his stef as love in the midst of it.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

That's good.

[Preston Perry]

Can I ask maybe both of y' all a question?

[Jackie Hill Perry]

I love this conversation right here.

[Preston Perry]

Yeah.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Cause, you know, I am so melancholy.

[Preston Perry]

I love.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

I love talking about sad.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Sad.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

I'm melancholy, too.

[Preston Perry]

This is a question. This is a question I'm gonna throw to y', all, and this is a genuine question. And I think a lot of my questions be formed because I ain't grew up in church, so you know what I'm saying? And so, like, I've seen people kind of. I love how you phrase lament is sadness with hope. What makes people believe that there's a lack of hope when there is sadness?

[Jackie Hill Perry]

You mean like people on the outside looking in?

[Preston Perry]

Yeah. Like, what makes a person not see.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

The hope when there's sadness?

[Preston Perry]

And then, because I've literally seen people in the church shame people. Like, God is a healer. What are you talking about? It's like. No, but. Like, at the. But I think what you're essentially saying is, you know, grief is a gift. God. In the same way that God gives us the ability to have joy, he also gives us the ability to grieve. I wrote a poem in 2019 called who Gives a Black Man Permission to Feel? And one of the lines I said, when grief comes out, it makes room for life to come in, and so grief has to come out. And so, like, if God did not give us the grieving process, like, even when, you know, Lazarus died, he allowed them to grieve.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yeah, Right.

[Preston Perry]

Because that's a gift, too. And so what makes people not recognize that as. And not see the hope? I wonder what that is. What is underneath that.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

I think people are just uncomfortable seeing other people grieve and other people sad. I think there may be something in that that is uncomfortable with watching someone cry, watching someone in pain. And I think some people struggle with it. There could be an awkwardness that they feel with it. So they want to har up and get you over to the other side instead of.

[Preston Perry]

They don't know how to sit with grief themselves.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Exactly. Instead of knowing how to sit with grief themselves and sit with someone else. Who is grieving without rushing to offer them a solution. You know, there's times that. And this. I'm so grateful for my husband because even as I walked through those grievous moments of infertility, he was able to just sit with me and just hold me while I grieved instead of rushing to the next thing, rushing to the solution, rushing me to joy. You know, I knew that joy would come, you know, and it just didn't always come the next morning. Sometimes it came a few mornings after that.

[Preston Perry]

That's good, because if you would have rushed you out of it, it probably wouldn't have been. You needed that.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

I needed that grief.

[Preston Perry]

You needed that gift of grief.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Yeah, I think she's right. I think people are uncomfortable. I think it's awkwardness. I think on one level, there's some selfishness, because weeping with those who weep requires empathy, which requires humility to not consider yourself, but to actually show up for this other person in the way that they need it.

[Preston Perry]

Right.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

And so I think that's one. I also think sometimes it's fear. Sometimes it's. I'm afraid of where this grief could take you. And so let me give the advice, let me give the instruction. Let me get you on into victory. Not because I'm trying to rush you, but because I'm afraid for you. Especially, you know, people who are pastoral or people who love you a lot. I think, as parents, I think when our children get a certain age, we're going to deal with that, where it's like, we want to fix it. Because I don't want you to fall.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

I don't want you to.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

I don't want you to get into some addictions. I don't want you to get into some bad habits. So let me do all that. So I think it's. It can be selfishness, but I think.

[Preston Perry]

It can be fear, lack of trust. Yeah.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Yeah. Because you gotta. I think, to show up. Well, with people, there's a level of trust in God you gotta have. You know what I'm saying? Like, I've had times when I'm on the phone with somebody and they are expressing some really hard stuff. And in that moment, I can. I can lean into all the Bible I know. Or I could pray and say, God, what do you want to me. Me to do? Yeah, you. You want me to be quiet? You want me to give advice? I've had times where God is like, just crack a joke.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yeah.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

I'm like, okay, I'll just be funny. You know what I'M saying. And so, but I, I. That takes me trusting him and how to love my neighbor.

[Preston Perry]

Yeah.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

And so I think that's just important.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

That's good.

[Preston Perry]

That's good. That's real good.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

You, you, you, you talk about exile.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yeah.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

I am very curious on what you mean by that.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

You're all I need. It's, it's very different. I struggled with the title. I struggled with naming that chapter Exile at first because, you know, there's many different exiles, you know, throughout Scripture. And we as Christians, we also are to. We're exiles, we're sojourners. Right. But I talked about how when you're walking in unanswered prayer, the church or people around you can unknowingly exile you. Meaning there are times, for example, when, let's say someone gets married, right? And there's all of a sudden this new community that that person gets. The single friend is exiled, essentially, like on the outskirts. And so that chapter is really an encouragement to seeing maybe the different seasons of life other people may be in and bringing them in and understanding that as a church, as other believers, no one should feel exiled. Right. That we have a responsibility to bring others in and lovingly still walk with them. Cause I started really processing me having a child at this ripe age. There were a lot of friends that had their children in their 20s and things like that. And I remember I wouldn't get invited to the parties, the birthday parties, the mom's day outs, all that. They just assumed I would. I wasn't interested in it. And I remember feeling like, man, where's my community? Like, I lost my community with that. Instead of just saying, just extending that invitation, still bringing me in if I wanted to be brought in. But walking with me, even though I'm in this messy middle, still praying and waiting and trusting the Lord for him to do something in my own life.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

I'm not gonna ask you, did you. You. I'mma broaden it. Because one thing I have heard is when people are dealing with infertility, for example, it could be with singleness. It could be with, I am praying for my husband to get a better job, and the friend husband does get a better job, and they're afraid to tell the friend who's actually been praying for that for a long time. Yeah, I guess I don't even know how to frame the question, but, like, how do we navigate knowing that your friend is praying for something for a long time and dealing with the fear of how to even, like, when you get the thing that they're praying for. And you don't even know how to bring that to them because that can communicate some exile to you. Because it's like, no, we friends. I love you.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

And that will happen all the time to me.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

That's the thing.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

It is.

[Preston Perry]

I'm so. I'm gonna let you. But I don't think I've ever told you that. But you know the person. But I was so afraid to tell a particular friend that I was about to propose to you.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Yeah.

[Preston Perry]

Because he was waiting for marriage and he wanted to marry his friend, a friend or whatever. And, like, I was like, I don't know how to not do this and not feel like I'm rubbing in your face.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Yes. But then it creates this breach in the relationship where it's like, it's this distance now. It's a sense where I love you. Tell me you know what I'm saying. Like, it's cool, but I just want to.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

I just want to talk to you. I talk about that. I'm so glad because I talk about how we have to push past our own awkwardness or feelings of, you know, this feels awkward for the sake of loving our friends well. For the sake of loving others well. And I believe the best way. I used to just want people to be honest with me, you know, and if I have some complicated feelings, allow me to wrestle with that and understand, you know, that the feelings may be complicated. I think when people were transparent and honest with me, I could still find a way to be happy and joyful for what God did for that person while still saying, okay, Lord, you know, I'm still waiting, you know, And I think it's awkward, but it can feel awkward, but both things can be true. And to just understand that that's how life is. Sometimes we kind of walk between, like, a dichotomy of two emotions and feelings. And so just being honest, I think, with your friend.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Yeah. And I love that.

[Preston Perry]

And I also, too, think that a lot of it kind of falls and hinges on both parties hoping the best in one another. Because I think essentially what I do, I have to do is I have to hope the best that he will be happy for me.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yeah.

[Preston Perry]

Like my friend, I have to hope the best that he would just be happy for me.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

And if they're not, we just gonna work through it.

[Preston Perry]

We work through it. And he gotta hope the best that I'm not telling him that this information to rub it in his face.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Right.

[Preston Perry]

But he has a hope the best that I'm just telling I'm telling the information, you know, because I'm happy.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

You know what I'm saying?

[Preston Perry]

I just. I'm happy. You know what I'm saying? And so, like, I think you. You got to hope the best and not live in fear.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yeah.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

I feel like sometimes when it comes to praying consistently, there's a. There's like a. There's a season where you are really hoping. Hopeful.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yeah.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

And full of, like, faith. Yeah. It's just like, yeah, God, like, give me better. And then I. I talk about this. In this. The sermon I did on Hannah in 1st Samuel, it says that she. One of the reasons we know she struggled with infertility for a long time is because it says that year after year, they would go to Shiloh and sacrifice. And that's when Penina would provoke her in light of her barrenness. And so it's year after year after year. And it's like, it's one thing to wait a year. It's another thing to wait two years. It's thing to work. And by, like, it can start to be like, okay, now I'm knocking a lot. If I knock on your door, I don't. Like, if you don't answer my call after three rings, so it's talking to you. So the fact. That's why I want to get you an apple watch. I'm like, I don't understand why you don't see me calling.

[Preston Perry]

You'd be so mad at me about, like. Like, geez, I didn't see it.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

I literally was dying. You know when you go to the doctor and they say, emergency contact, you're not on it. You're not on it. Not gonna pick up bae.

[Preston Perry]

That's not. First of all, you don't be picking up for people.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

People for you. I do.

[Preston Perry]

You do.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Anyway, I'm sorry. We need marriage counseling. At what point in your story did you start to realize I may not actually have faith in you anymore because of how long I've been asking, and it feels like you're not responding.

[Preston Perry]

That's a real question. Wow.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Wow. At what point in my story? Probably the second miscarriage. And after that, I was just like, I really struggled with that, and I needed to be encouraged, and I'm grateful for the church that encouraged me. Other believers, community. Because there are times that we will experience where our dreams feel so shattered that we need the encouragement of others to speak into us and to hear us and to pray for us and to walk with us. And I think by that point, it had been over. It had been 10 years.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

That's a long time.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yeah, it is.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

And we gotta paint the picture. Cause y' all keep looking her in the face and thinking, she's about 33.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

By the time this airs, I'll probably be 44.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

We praise the Lord. Yes. Because women in this subject, women have a different set of battles. They gotta fight because they like, all right, my body.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yes.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

My ovaries, My fallopian tubes.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yes.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

You have designed our bodies in such a way where they start to not wear, work according to, you know. So you're wrestling with that too. So 10 years is a absolute test.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

10 years is an absolute test. I was turning 40. I had. And I shared that. I went through the IVF as. As an option. I didn't have a lot of eggs, you know, nothing. I. I got two embryos out of that and miscarried the first. So here I was like, this one embryo is here. After this, we don't.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

And then what happened?

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Then what? You know, if I miscarry this, then God, I have to be okay with knowing that you love me and that this is your will. And that was something that I had to wrestle with and work through. Like, if this does not happen.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Do.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Can I still trust you? And can I still trust that you are good even in this? And that was hard, you know, so it took wrestling. It took honesty with God. It took going through lament and grief, but, you know, and crying it out and saying, you know, God, like, I don't understand this, but I hope in you I love you. And it took time.

[Preston Perry]

Wow.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

I want to read something. And then I want to. I want to talk about your baby. It's Exodus 17. Yes, Exodus 17. I'mma read it. And then I'm a. Because one thing you said I think is really key and really important. Important is that when we are struggling with faith, whether that's because of unanswered prayers or whatever, we need people.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yeah, we.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

We just need people. It says Exodus 17, verse 10. So Joshua did as Moses told him and fought with Amalek. While Moses, Aaron, and her went up to the top of the hill. Whenever Moses held up his hand, Israel prevailed. And whenever he lowered his hand, Amalek prevailed. But Moses hands grew weak. So they took a stone and put it under him, and he sat on it while Aaron and Hur held up his hands, one on one side and the other on the other side. So his hands were steady until the going down of the sun. And Joshua overwhelmed Amalek and his people with the Sword. I just want to point out two things. One, I just noticed a week ago, reading this text, we always talk about Aaron and her holding up Moses's hands so that Israel can win this battle. But what I didn't notice is that before they held up his hand, they put him on top of, of a rock. And to me, I'm like, oh, when we come and support people in community, I, I'm. I can't just hold up your hands. I just can't make sure that you all good. I also got to put the rock up under you. And so there's something about the rock being up under him that stabilized him so that as community supported him, he could also do what God told him to do. And I think that is how we help people get through difficult seasons of faith is, yes, yes, I'mma I'mma take you out to eat. Yes, I'mma crack some jokes. Yes, I'mma do whatever I need to do to make sure that you do not grow weary and well doing. But I also need to do the due diligence of making sure you're sitting on that rock.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yes.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

You know, because it was the rock that helped you sustain.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yes.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

It's the rock that helped you have stamina. It's the rock that helped you endure so that you can actually love God as you wait.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Amen.

[Preston Perry]

Yes, that's good.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

That encouraged me.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

That's it.

[Preston Perry]

That was the word.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

That's it.

[Preston Perry]

You preached the whole sermon right there.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Ten, tell us about when the dream you had came true.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

So that final little embryo, I got the courage to say, all right, let's try and. She was born August 15, 2023. Her name is Justice Joy.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

She's a two year old baby. You got a baby?

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yes, I am running around with a two year old, y', all. And. But no, it's a lot of joy. She literally is her name. Like, I could see, like, ooh, there's some justice there. And that joy that she brings, we call her just Joy for short. And I talk about her in my epilogue because I want people to know, like, even though my subtitle is how unanswered prayers can deepen your intimacy with God, we know that God does because he does answer prayers, but with that, there's things that come with that. Now that the answered prayer is here, there were things that I needed to understand. And I remember sitting, holding her when she was cluster feeding at like three in the morning, tired and crying and all the things that I'm like, okay, this is what I wanted this is what I asked for. Like, I don't know, had good late sleep for 42 years of my life, and now, you know, I'm having sleepless nights. And it just made me think of the stewardship that comes with the answered prayers that God gives us. There's stewardship, there's responsibility, there's also a temptation to not be satisfied or to. There's temptation even to idolize the answered prayer, you know, and so that's something that we have to look at and wrestle with and understand that when God gives you and says that. Yes, for whatever it is, that there's some other things that need to take place, we still have to be rooted in Him.

[Preston Perry]

Yeah. This is kind of a two part question. I would imagine that it's some people watching who might be going through the same thing that you're going through. And they might have this question, like, why should my expectation be that God is going to do this thing for me? If he did it for you, like, if he allows you to get pregnant, why shouldn't my expectation be the same? What would you say to that girl? But also for the one who's still struggling, just in general, who might not have that thought, but what would you say to the woman who still, you know, because your story's beautiful, you know, like God, you know, ended up giving you your beautiful baby and all the things, but there's so many people, so many girls that's still waiting.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yeah.

[Preston Perry]

What would you say? What would your message. I don't know. A lot of that they can find in the book, but we want to know on podcast for sure.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Well, I would say for those that are still waiting first, that every person, every person that God has created has a different path, has a different story. And I say this like your story may not necessarily be my story, but there are still things that I am waiting for. You know, I am walking through. My mother has stage four cancer, you know, and we are praying and trusting and going before the Lord to heal her body. Right. And so there's still, there's always going to be. I think all of us have to understand that our, our journey is our journey, our path is our path. You know, I share my story to encourage hope. But what I want you to have hope in is not in my story, not in my testimony, but in God, in the fact that we know that he can, you know, and so you want to hope in the God who can do and be, be and make happen the perfect will for your life. And because it's for Your life. It is something that I pray that that person will have joy in.

[Preston Perry]

I really hope people understand the significance of what you just said. Because it was really deep. No, it was super deep. Because I think a lot of times we lose sight on what God want us to focus on.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yeah.

[Preston Perry]

God doesn't merely want us to focus on answering every prayer we have, but he wants to focus on, do you believe I am the God that can do all things?

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yes.

[Preston Perry]

Like the God that can.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

I am. That I am.

[Preston Perry]

I can do it.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yes.

[Preston Perry]

And if I don't do something in your life, it's for your good. But can you still believe I can do it even if I don't? That's really powerful. Yeah, super powerful.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

I feel like there's so many scriptures coming to my mind and I think it's because this has been a constant for me in many ways, praying for stuff and feeling like you heard me, but you're just not responding. And it's not that he's not responding. That's a part of the lie. He, he is in fact responding. He just may not be responding in the way that I want or in the way that I perform. And because he's wise, he's giving me what I actually need. But not only that, the Bible talks about how the Holy Spirit also intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words when we don't know what to pray or how to pray. And so I think there's also a sense that what you're praying, the Holy Spirit is reinterpreting that thing and God is responding to that prayer. You know what I'm saying? And so it could be, yeah, you pray for this door to open in, in business. And the Lord is like, no, she don't, she don't, she don't actually need that, Father. What she needs is, you know, humility to understand that you're actually going to provide for her circumstances in another way. And so like the Holy Spirit is.

[Preston Perry]

Also praying cuz we don't know ourselves.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Yeah, but think about, think God knows.

[Preston Perry]

Us way more than we forget.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

We're banking on our prayers too much. Yeah, we're, we're thinking about our prayers too much. And, and that's important. But I'm saying even a little alongside your prayers is the Spirit. And so how much hope do we actually have that the Lord is like, you literally don't even pray well enough to know how to pray. So I'mma have the Holy Spirit pray too.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yes, yes, you.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

So we are, us, we are receiving Grace, we are receiving answers. We are receiving something like John Piper said. He said God is always probably doing 10 million things. You're aware of two of them. I don't know. I just.

[Preston Perry]

But. But it's deep.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Thinking about the Holy Ghost prayer for me is just something.

[Preston Perry]

Yeah, yeah. Cause I think even the scripture that I read earlier, it talks about God answering prayers according to his will, and he hears. And a lot of times when we tap into the Holy Spirit, like when we seek the Lord, how we supposed to, or how he wants us to in a particular season, we see that our prayers start to align aligned with the Holy Spirit. Like. Like wheels change.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Delight yourself.

[Preston Perry]

Like. Like, yo, yo, yo. Like wheels literally do change when you. When you tap into God in a way that you not. You know what I'm saying?

[Jackie Hill Perry]

What you putting.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yeah, you literally spoke what I was thinking. Delighting yourself in the Lord. That scripture is often used like, oh, if I just delight myself in the.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Lord and serve him, he's going to be every day.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yes. He's going to give me every desire. But you just spoke to that.

[Preston Perry]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

You're a Bible teacher.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

I guess you are.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

You're a Bible teacher. Talk about the role of scripture as we deal with unanswered prayer. Because I don't want people to walk away from this thinking, okay, community bet. Hope, bet. But, like, you're not working through them texts. Yeah, like, let's talk about that.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Oh, you got to stay rooted and you got to study. And the thing about. I share with transparency that there were moments in my journey where I wasn't studying as a Bible teacher as I should have because of that time I said I was wrestling with the anger and it was like. Or I would read a devotional. I would read scripture, but it wasn't out of. It was out of routine, instead of really sitting with the text and allowing the Holy Spirit to minister to me. And so when you're sitting with the text and allowing the Holy Spirit to minister to you as you study, healing comes in that, you know, grace comes in that. That gives you the power to endure and to really be able to walk out that. That time of that season, that wilderness, that valley that you are in. And so. So that's the role of Scripture. To be able to wash myself with the Word, hear from God, be encouraged, and to allow the Holy Spirit to do the work in me through the studying of scripture. And so when you get off from that, that's when you know, you find yourself in some things that you may. May not need to be in like. You find yourself coping with the fact that your prayers aren't answered in unhealthy ways. You may find yourself uncoping by mindless scrolling, you know, or alcohol or whatever it is, you know, whatever you are using to cope. And so my encouragement for anyone is, you know, to use the scriptures to cope, you know, and that's how we learn about God and we also see ourselves in that.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Yeah, that's good. I just want to add to that. I think of Jesus in Luke 4, you know, and how he's hungry, he's suffering. That's. That's suffering. You, you ain't for 40 days, you, you're tired, you're in the wilderness, you ain't got no community. I don't know if he had a tarp, I have no idea. I need the chosen to go do that scene for us or something. But you know, you're in the wilderness and Satan comes and it's like, hey man, turn these stones through bread because the bread will make the pain stop. But he's like, man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. And so even reminding ourselves that there are opportunities to turn stones into bread. But that won't sustain you. Yeah, that won't actually feed you.

[Preston Perry]

That won't.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

That won't be the thing. You know, I'm encouraged just by this because, because one of my favorite passages is in 2 Corinthians 1 where Paul talks about how he's been afflicted and in all his afflictions he's been comforted. And the same comfort by which he was comforted, he comforts others. And it's like this book is that. This book is, you were afflicted and you were comforted. And that same comfort has actually been written down into these pages. And so I just appreciate you for one enduring. It was the Holy Spirit, but it was also you leaning into him. So I appreciate that. Appreciate you writing the stuff and talking about the stuff. I appreciate you loving the Bible. Cuz you could have just encouraged the saints and not had no Bible. I was over here like she got.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

A lot of Bible in there, this Bible.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

See something about Ebenezer.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

I said, okay, praising Ebenezer.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Yes. So just thank you. I just, just appreciate you.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Thank you.

[Preston Perry]

Probably show people the book.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Oh yeah, where's the. So yes, even Jennifer text me when she was looking at the COVID because they gave you a few covers, girl.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Yeah.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

When dreams fall apart unanswered prayers can deepen your intimacy with God. You can look in the show notes to get the book to follow. Jennifer, her ministry, all the stuff, and you will grow if you do so. Thank you Jen.

[Preston Perry]

Thanks J.

[Jennifer Lucy Tyler]

Thank you. Thank y' all for having me.

[Jackie Hill Perry]

Peace with the Perrys is produced by the Perrys with support from Amanda reed and Channing McBride. Video recording and audio production by Matthew Baxter and Xavier Fairley, edited by the team at Treasure. Lively artwork by Hop and music by Swoop. Thank you for listening. Now go with God.