Navigating Faith While Playing A Game: A Conversation With BB26 Winner Chelsie Baham

Summary

With The Perrys Podcast Summary

Episode: Navigating Faith While Playing A Game: A Conversation With BB26 Winner Chelsie Baham
Hosts: Preston Perry & Jackie Hill Perry
Guest: Chelsie Baham (Big Brother 26 Winner)
Date: September 8, 2025

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Overview

This episode dives into the unique journey of Chelsie Baham, the first openly Christian winner of Big Brother (BB26). The Perrys explore faith, integrity, and psychological resilience within the context of a highly competitive, often morally ambiguous reality TV show. Chelsie shares how her ministry background shaped her game and the spiritual wrestles she faced in the house. The dialogue is an honest, nuanced exploration of the intersection of faith, ethics, strategy—and the realities of post-show fame.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Chelsie’s Background: Faith, Family, and Ministry

[05:24]

• Chelsie grew up in a Catholic-to-Christian family and developed a deep love for Scripture early on.
• Became a youth leader at 11, then led and served in ministry for over a decade.
• At a pivotal moment in college, she felt called by God to quit basketball and later entered full-time ministry.
• “I was in the peak of my season...I felt like the Holy Spirit said, ‘You’re not supposed to be here.’” — Chelsie [05:24]

2. Unpacking Big Brother: Show Mechanics & Psychological Toll

[07:52–09:21]

• 16+ strangers, sequestered with no tech/communication for 3 months, compete for $750,000.
• Chelsie describes 12 days of psychological isolation before even entering the house.
• No privacy: “They can see you sleep, they can see you eat. All the things. You’re miked up 24, 7.” — Chelsie [07:56]
• Challenges included lack of music, worship, or writing—she even studied using Q-tips due to lack of materials [53:02].

3. The Moral Challenge: Faith in a Game Built on Deception

[14:03–23:46; 29:36–46:37]

• The Perrys candidly raise the ethical tension: Big Brother prizes social manipulation—how does a believer play, let alone win?
  • “Big Brother is a game that you cannot win unless you manipulate well.” — Jackie [14:03]
  • “How did you…navigate your conscience when it came to having to manipulate people to get ahead in the game?” — Jackie [29:38]
• Chelsie’s approach: She compartmentalized—seeing gameplay as akin to games like Mafia or Spades.
  • “In the game, if I’m having a game conversation…It’s just like any game night…That’s how I viewed Big Brother.” — Chelsie [29:53]
• The group debates: Is lying within a game sinful, or does intention and context matter?
  • “I think the reason why people fall into legalism is…they look at the commands of God like a rule book and not a God who sees the intention of a heart.” — Preston [34:01]
• Chelsie leaned on discernment, sometimes intentionally choosing not to make gameplay decisions that would harm others’ reputations beyond the house.
  • “There are certain moments in the game I did have to step in and let my morality take precedence over the game.” — Chelsie [44:52]

4. Ministry Prepared Her for Reality TV

[22:07–25:36]

• Chelsie’s pastoral skills and background in ministry were unexpectedly useful.
  • Day one: Led a Bible study in the house; comforted and prayed over a grieving housemate [23:17].
  • “Ministry prepared me heavily for this game for sure.” — Chelsie [25:36]
• Sensitivity toward people of different beliefs—modeled Christian wisdom and gentleness, much like Scripture encourages.

5. Navigating Post-Show Life: Fame, Community, and Resilience

[53:27–56:14; 57:11–62:43]

• Re-entry into “real life” after months of isolation was disorienting; cast received therapy support.
• Intense online hate—including racist attacks and death threats—necessitated security precautions.
  • “The fan base of Big Brother…seeing a person of color win is already something that they’re not used to in the last 20 plus years.” — Chelsie [63:27]
• Chelsie’s faith sustained her through the storm of attention and criticism.
• Now, her platform allows more evangelism—dining with atheists/agnostics, introducing them to faith.

6. Theological Reflection: Christians in Cultural Spaces

[60:35–62:10]

• The Perrys examine how the church should view believers in secular/high-profile spaces.
  • “God in his sovereignty…strategically wants to place Christians in unlikely spaces to do unlikely things, to bring unlikely people to the kingdom…” — Preston [61:03]
• Chelsie feels equipped due to a “hidden” season before her prominence: “He had to hide me before Big Brother…so now post it as I’m standing on stage…am I going to give God the glory?”
  — Chelsie [59:47]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Game’s Difficulty and Faith:
  “It was a daily struggle for me…and the only way that I was able to navigate it was to compartmentalize in that house…” — Chelsie [29:53]

• On Pastoral Skills Helping in the House:
  “My ability to hear people out, to pastor. A lot of people in that house through the game and through their personal lives…that unintentionally helped me.” — Chelsie [23:46]

• On Social Strategy:
  “The social skills were immaculate…That’s a part of why I like Big Brother. I love psychology…it’s watching social chess.” — Jackie [19:38, 20:43]

• On Maintaining Integrity:
  “There was a line that I wouldn’t cross…I had to let my morality take precedence over the game.” — Chelsie [44:52]

• On Facing Hate:
  “Death threats, all of that stuff for playing a game.” — Chelsie [64:00]

• Final Reflection:
  “God tells us to implement…wisdom, gentleness…to be wise as serpents, harmless as doves…you were able to display that because of your ministry background.” — Preston [24:31]

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Important Timestamps & Segments

| Timestamp | Content | |------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 05:24 | Chelsie shares her faith and ministry background | | 07:52 | Explanation of Big Brother (BB), its format, and psychological impact | | 14:03 | Jackie raises the “moral problem” with playing Big Brother | | 23:17 | Chelsie leads in-house Bible study and provides pastoral care | | 29:36 | The group’s deep dive: Is lying in games sinful? | | 34:01 | Preston tackles legalism and heart-intent in biblical ethics | | 44:52 | Chelsie describes moments where faith overruled gameplay decisions | | 53:27 | Discussion of post-show adjustment and psychological support | | 57:11 | Chelsie reflects on how BB prepared her for greater avenues of ministry| | 63:27 | Chelsie details online hate and racism from BB fandom | | 64:40 | Equipping for future ministry; Lord’s sovereign preparation |

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Tone & Atmosphere

• Warm, candid, humorous, deeply honest
• The Perrys' banter with Chelsie brings a mix of vulnerability, spiritual insight, and laughter.
• The discussions are thoughtful, sometimes unresolved, encouraging Christians to wrestle with real-world ethical dilemmas.

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Closing Prayer & Reflections

[70:42–72:39]

• Preston leads a heartfelt prayer for Chelsie’s continued resilience, peace, and effectiveness in her “sent” work beyond Big Brother.
  • “We thank you God for sending your people all over the world, even in Big Brother houses, to be a light…” — Preston [70:42]

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Summary Takeaway

Chelsie Baham’s story is one of spiritual formation, strategic social gameplay, and steadfast integrity under pressure. The discussion leaves listeners with a nuanced understanding of living out faith authentically—even in the most unconventional and demanding arenas. Whether in ministry, reality TV, or post-show life, Christlike love, wisdom, and resilience are not only possible but compelling.

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For listeners seeking a thoughtful, entertaining, and theologically grounded exploration of faith in the real world, this episode is essential.

Transcript

[A]

Hey, guys. Hey, Saint tonight, how are you?

[B]

What's good with y'?

[A]

All?

[B]

You're really pretty.

[A]

Thanks.

[B]

Scan off.

[A]

I don't really have any small talk in me.

[B]

I don't know. I just want to admire your beauty real quick.

[A]

All right.

[B]

You're such a small piece of leather, but you so well put together.

[A]

Did you sleep good last night? You told me you didn't.

[B]

No, I did not.

[A]

You want to express one? You want to work through that?

[B]

I just kind of felt like demons was fighting me all night. Yeah. You ever, like, wake up?

[A]

Was it demons or the mattress? So we talked about this because it could really be.

[B]

We talked about. I love our mattress, and I don't. This.

[A]

I'm not the biggest fan of it.

[B]

This is the first time, I think we had three mattresses in our marriage, and this is the first time I feel like I like the mattress and you don't.

[A]

Well, so to be clear, the reason why we've had three is because we went mattress shopping maybe three or four months ago. I like that mattress. You didn't like that mattress, and so you replaced the mattress two months ago because we had, like, 60 day warranty. Because I slept fine on it, so.

[B]

So I was like, I should change the mattress again.

[A]

No, because I just don't. I don't even want to go through that. So it's like, it's cool.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But I'm also. I'm perpetually uncomfortable because I have back issues. So part I only sleep well when we go to Europe because all of those beds are hard. Beds have to be like a straight plank of wood for me to sleep now.

[B]

Remember that time we was in Nigeria and we felt like we laid on a brick?

[A]

No, it sounds counterintuitive, but the harder the bed, the better I sleep. Like, it has to be really hard. The bed we have now. It's, like, firm. It's just not firm enough. It's not. It's not. It's not giving bare back. I need to sleep on a back.

[B]

But what we probably need, though, we need. We probably need that bed where, you know, like, you got. And got your own bed in one bed. Like, I can lean up and you can lean back.

[A]

Well, that was the original conversation that we were supposed to get.

[B]

We probably should do that.

[A]

We need to do this. I think we're. I think we're beyond the warranty at this point so we can move back to the spiritual warfare question. Is it the mattress or was it demons?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

I don't Know if for me it's the mattress. For you, it might be the demons.

[B]

Have you ever woke up and you just felt like you was fighting all night?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I told you that the other day when I said I had a dream that a dark female figure in black robes came in the kitchen and stood in my face and was intimidating me.

[B]

And then I breasting in the dream.

[A]

And then I was trying to rebuke her, and I asked you, was I fighting in my sleep trying to communicate? And you said, yeah, And I said, I think you should have been praying for me.

[B]

Jackie was speaking in tongues in her sleep or something. Yeah. What is it?

[A]

No, I'm having a strong warfare, so we shouldn't have found it ironic that two weeks later there was public warfare of people who are females saying things to me. Anyway, go ahead.

[B]

Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So I just woke up. I just kind of felt like, yeah, somebody beat me up all night. I don't know. You know, my shoulders hurt. I'm like, why did I feel like I was running?

[A]

You think you, Jacob, you was wrestling an angel?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Anyway, we have Chelsea with us today.

[B]

How you doing, Chelsea?

[A]

What's up?

[C]

It's so fascinating hearing you guys banter. This is a truly married couple. Over a mattress is crazy.

[A]

Yeah, that's a like thing, though.

[C]

I. Well, I'm chronically single, so I didn't even think that mattresses would be a.

[A]

Thing because here's the beautiful. You know how Paul says, like, you know, you're anxious for the things of the Lord and we have to. If ever you want to change out your mattress, you don't have to have no conversation with nobody.

[C]

Oh, it's the best. I don't have to ask anybody for anything.

[A]

Yeah, it's just like, you could just. You could just get the mattress that you want to have.

[C]

Whatever I want.

[A]

That's what I'm saying. So bask in that. All right, now, what you say your last name?

[C]

Bayham. Bayham, yeah. What is that?

[A]

What country is that from?

[C]

It's actually German, and I'm not German, and I don't know the storyline behind that. I am Creole, so something happened back in the day that we. I probably don't want to dig deep into.

[A]

So where your people from?

[C]

Louisiana.

[A]

Well, you live in la, so who your grandma?

[B]

Some real woke people. Find out what your real name is.

[A]

Your grandma moved from Louisiana.

[C]

Both grand grandparents on both sides of the family moved from Louisiana to Los.

[A]

Angeles for what, the railroads or something? No, it was like, it Was like a mass exodus there because I actually don't know. Okay, you should find that out.

[C]

I should find that out.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But yeah. German.

[A]

So Chelsea is the winner of Big Brother.

[B]

Big Brother. I tell Jackie how I hate season two. The way they say that all the.

[C]

Time, you know, that's a real man that says that he's like older. He's been there since season one. He's probably in his, like, 70s. And finale, he comes up to me, he's like, hi, Chelsea. I said, hi, who are you? Who are you? He said, this might ring a bell. Chelsea, come to the diary room. I said, you're the voice of Big. Big Brother. I thought it was like AI or some computer. No, it's a real guy.

[A]

They gonna replace that man. He just don't know it yet. They gonna replace that man. AI. It's coming.

[C]

Yeah, it's gonna come for sure.

[A]

We better replace human beings for all.

[B]

That age he is.

[A]

But she's. She's not just the winner. Cuz I don't like for people to only be seen through the lens of what they've accomplished. But she's a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, you know what I'm saying? She's a daughter. You used to be a leader at a church. All the stuff you trying to figure out if you. What you gonna be doing, all this stuff, like, tell us about yourself.

[C]

Yeah. So I grew up in the church. Like, family were Catholic turned Christian. And at age 9, I just became obsessed with God's word. Like I was in Youth Ministry at 9 years old, leading at 11 years old. So I just became so fascinated with the word of God and church. Up into college I went, played, played ball in college at a Christian college. And in the middle, like, peak of my season, best I' played. And in the middle of practice, I felt like the Holy Spirit say, you're not supposed to be here. So I dropped the basketball, ran to my coach's office, and I quit. And she starts crying. She's like, what can I do? Like, give you more money. And I'm like, well, But I end up quitting. I said, I don't think I really know why, but I just feel like God's calling me to quit. And a week later, a woman that I was interning for, she took me out. She's like, hey, I just sensed that you're not supposed to be playing basketball. I said, that's funny. I quit last week. And that was at 17 years old. And from 17 up into two days before big Brother, I'VE been in full time ministry.

[A]

That's crazy.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Wow. So we met Chelsea. Did we meet before the tour?

[C]

No, that was our first time.

[A]

So Chelsea was at our LA stop of the with the parents podcast tour. And it was funny because when the season A Big Brother started, I'm watching it and you know the first episode, they introduce you to the cast and they do all the pictures and the run through and all the things.

[B]

You got to let people know because people, people know, but a lot of people probably don't know that you're a fan.

[A]

Okay, let me get some con. So. Okay, let's slow down. Okay, Explain what Big Brother is because it's even. Because Loki. I put on threads before the season started. I was like, big brothers coming. And somebody was like, what are you talking about? And I was like, o. I forgot that people don't know what. So explain what this is and then I'll give further context to all the stuff.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, you should explain you've been watching it since season two, which is crazy.

[B]

But I think you could explore.

[C]

I'll explain it.

[B]

How old was you? Nine?

[A]

Yeah, it was like 1998, 1999, something like that.

[C]

That's crazy. I was three years old.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Anyway, so what you can't say is I'm. I'm not loyal and.

[C]

Yeah, you're loyal.

[B]

Our whole marriage must have been Big Brother.

[A]

I have.

[C]

They should make you the voice I'm.

[A]

Gonna pitch that I dick.

[C]

So Big Brother is they. They put 16, 17 strangers in a home. You're. You have no technology. You're locked away from the outside world for three months. And you have cameras 24, 7 on you. So at any point people can log on to Paramount plus and see what you're doing. They can see you sleep, they can see you eat. All the things. You're miked up 24, 7. And each week, the objective is for you to play games to gain power. Whoever gains power puts people on the block and you basically have to fight to stay in this house each week. And each week the house gets the vote for who they want to kick out. And you're playing for a large sum of money. At the end, you have two people sitting in the final chairs and the jury. People that get kicked out get to vote for who they believe deserves the win. And so you go, it's 90 days. But the crazy part, what people don't know, you're sequestered before. So I was stuck in a hotel room for 12 days. Couldn't leave the room and only left the room once. So you, like, kind of go a little bit crazy before you even get on the show. Some people quit before they even make it to the show. Because psychologically, it's difficult to just not leave one room with no phone, no tv, no nothing. You're sitting in silence all day long.

[A]

Oh, that's sick. A little bit.

[C]

It. No, it's bad.

[A]

Yeah, it's bad. So.

[C]

Yeah. And one person wins at the end. And I find myself winning the game. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. And so. And you don't. You. You have. You said no contact with the outside world.

[C]

No contact, no phone, no nothing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How much money. How much money did. Did you win?

[C]

$750,000.

[A]

Hey, let me get up.

[B]

Let me get $5.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

God, let me hold some.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So that's context. So before at the. With the Perry's tour. So stop. Chelsea came up, said, what's up? You asked a question about, like, church or something.

[B]

Cause she was in vip.

[C]

She did, yeah.

[A]

She was a vip. The reason I remember Chelsea is because I said, I like your outfit.

[C]

Outfit.

[A]

That's right. That's the reason why I remember.

[B]

She's swaggy.

[A]

I like the outfit. And then we took the picture. I think you was cool with Hop. Like, it was all these, like, connections that, like, cemented you in my mind for some reason.

[B]

And what's crazy was I'm gonna just say this. The guy who works for me for Bowed Apparel, my clothing line, he grew up with you.

[C]

That was Hop. Kevin. They were. We all did youth ministry together.

[B]

And so, like. So, like, as soon as you walked away, he was like, yo, she gonna be on Big Brother. And I was like. And I literally forgot to tell you.

[A]

I had no. I had not a day.

[B]

I forgot to tell her. Cause it was. Tour is busy. So I forgot to tell her. Cause Kevin walked up to me. Cause he does all my merch on tour. And he knew you from la. And he was like, yo, that's my friend Chelsea. She's the one be on the TV show Big Brother. And I was like, really?

[A]

And.

[B]

And I totally forgot to tell my wife.

[C]

I was gonna tell Jackie, but I didn't wanna. I was so afraid to, like, get in trouble. And I didn't. There was so much going on. I'm like, that. She's not gonna care about that detail. I wish I would have told you.

[A]

We try to be as intentional about our marriage as we can be. Especially when you do ministry together, when you work together, it can become more of a co working experience rather than a oneness reality.

[B]

You don't see me for real stuff like that.

[A]

Right. So we tried to do all the things that God would have us do and we believe that many of you can relate to that. And so the thing about marriages is that great marriages don't just happen overnight. They take work and intentionality. That is why we are excited to introduce to you the Weekend to Remember Marriage Getaway. This is a three day event put on by family life and it is coming to a city near you.

[B]

Yeah, we're really excited to be a part of event where so many married couples from around the country, younger, older, will come together and talk about their problems, talk about their triumphs. And I'm just excited to just learn from other married couples who've been where we've been. I mean we've only been married for 11 years and so how beneficial would it be for us to be connected and learning from people who've been married 60 years. And so I just think that it's just beneficial for everybody, every married couple to, to be a part of this event. So I'm really excited about it.

[A]

And we know some people that's going to be up in there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

With 80 weekend to remember events across the country, finding one in your area will be easy. They've helped millions of couples improve their marriages for over 40 years. And so whether your marriage is strong or struggling, righteous or ratchet, but a weekend full of intentionality and growth can help any couple. Over 96% of couples said their marriage went from a four to an eight in just one weekend. While there, you will learn ways to improve communication, resolve conflict and restore romance in your marriage. You know, I was about to go left, but I won't. I'll return back to you.

[B]

That's all about active worship.

[A]

I'm about to. I'll come back to being right. Find an event near you and register today. Find an event near you and register today at a weekend to remember.com and right now, right now, everybody say right now, right now. You can save with Weekend to Remember's biggest sale of the year. Head to weekendtoremember.com and register for half price now through September 15th. No, I like the surprise because again I'm watching, I'm watching the first episode. So the first episode they run through the cast, they have this really like, it's like a, this B roll where they go into the cast house and you see the thing and your whole storyline was that you're like a pastor or A preacher person. Da, da da. And I'm looking, I said, is this the girl? So I, I went, I somehow, because I think you tagged us in the picture. And I said, is that the girl?

[C]

He was, yeah, Sit there.

[A]

And I was just like, bro, like, that's the same. So it was. I, I immediately was going to be locked into that season just because I'm like, this is so interesting that I met this person who I believe is a believer who is on this show that I love. I'm intrigued to see how she's going to navigate this because honestly speaking, I'm going be very frank with you. Big Brother is a game that you cannot win unless you manipulate well.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Sneaky, sneaky, sneaky, sneaky.

[C]

100%.

[A]

Let's be clear. Survivor, Big Brother, those are games that you have to navigate social dynamics well. They require some type of craftiness. And so I was just like, huh, I'mma see what she do. And you did it.

[C]

I did it.

[A]

You did do it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so what, I guess what was a part of your process of making this decision to do that? Did you see commute? Like, where did that seed start?

[C]

Yeah. So I, I never, like, grew up. I watched it for a long time. I never grew up thinking this is something that I wanted to do. I had a friend who was on Survivor and she was like, it was my pastor's sister. She's like, hey, you should. She didn't even say audition. She sent me a screenshot of casting calls. So I lifted up my laptop and I did a four minute video. Like, what's up, y'? All? My name is.

[A]

You didn't think about it.

[C]

No.

[A]

You just. You're just one of those kind of people.

[C]

Yeah. I was just like, they're gonna see thousands of people. They go through over a hundred thousand videos and they recruit people. So I'm like, they're probably not gonna see it. The worst that could happen is they say no. So I didn't. Most people edit their casting video on Nice. I literally was like, but you don't.

[A]

See the gap that I'm trying to.

[C]

Yeah, no, there's a. I know, I know. I never thought about it until January right before the show.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

How old are you, Chelsea?

[C]

I'm 20. I'm 28. I was 27 at the time.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Yeah. So didn't think about it. Probably should thought about it a little bit more. But I lifted up my laptop and I did a four minute video and I closed it. I'm like, lord, if it Happens, it happens. If it doesn't, whatever. At the time, I was going through a lot of interesting dynamics at work. I was already processing transition in December before Big Brother. And I felt like the Lord said, june, and I didn't know what that he just gave me June. I didn't know what that meant. Is it June and I'm changing my role at church? Is it June and I'm leaving my role at church? What's going on? So after I lifted up my laptop, did that video, I didn't think about it. After a month, I'm like, whatever. I don't care if they call me or not. And I'm at church and I see, like, my Apple watch go off, and it's, hey, this is so and so from casting. Would love to hop on a call. They spelled my name wrong, so I'm like, this is like, somebody messing with me. This is spam. I'm not answering this. Then 30 minutes later, some told me, like, you should just, like, call back and check. And then it was legit. So I went through the casting process. I sought counsel, mostly my pastors at the church. And they were. I wasn't able to tell them in the beginning what it was because I'm under NDA. So I'm like, hey, I could be gone for two months or I could be gone for three months or two weeks. I can't say what it is, but it's a TV thing. Immediately. My pastors, they've been fans since season three, four. They knew exactly what it was.

[A]

So you talking about Big Brother?

[C]

Yeah, yeah. So I couldn't hide it. And they. They had supported it. They said, yeah, try to make some things work with my role. But it got to the point where I had to make a decision where they couldn't allow three months to go by because my role was so pivotal. So they said, if you last past this amount of time, we're going to have to replace your role. So I was up. I had to. I had to pray and fast. Lord, is this something that you want me to do? Because this is, like a big deal, and I'm a woman of faith going on a very platform that deals with manipulation and lying. So, you know, and I'm like, I'm repping my church. I don't want this to make my church look bad. There's so my family look bad or myself. So I prayed and I sought the Lord. And he just made it very clear that as June came, I'm like, I think this was the transition that he Was talking about my very last day of work was June 30th and I got picked up for Big Brother and just through prayer, prayer, fasting, my community, they said, go for it. We think this is the thing that's best for you. But it came with sacrifice of my job that I loved at the time. So I went and I didn't think I was like, you know, if I get kicked off two weeks, that's fine. I went on Big Brother. That's iconic. I did not expect to win this game.

[A]

I didn't expect you to win.

[C]

Why?

[A]

I didn't expect you to win one. I think the way they introduced you, you were introduced like the church kid. Like, you would just kind of be the person who was there to be a moral center for the house.

[B]

Let's get together and pray with one another.

[A]

Stop fighting. Usually the person who was moral is actually some sort of bring some type of contention in there because they're self righteous on some level. And so I just thought you would just kind of be around, floating, just having a good time. I knew you would go far. When you had the conversation with the guy who said that he had family who was Christian and he was gay. And the way you handled that conversation, I said, I told you.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I literally told you.

[B]

I want to just talk about this real quick.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because so.

[A]

So you gotta vouch for me because I don't be. I'm not mixed up.

[B]

So here's the thing. So I watched Big Brother with her occasionally.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And so I'm not. I'm typically somewhere watching sports. I'm a sports junkie. Right. And so she said, preston, can you come upstairs real quick? I said, okay. She said, I got into bed with her. She said, this girl is playing this game. She is playing this game. She is good. Ooh, ooh. And so I said, why is she playing this game? And she just talked about how great your social.

[A]

The social skills were immaculate.

[B]

Your social skills were immaculate. So then I was like, I'm starting to be a fan now.

[A]

I'm like, you know what I'm saying? This is a part of why I like Big Brother. I. I love psychology. I think anybody that watches me or listens to my teaching or the way I explain, I like to get underneath things. I like to understand people and why people think and do the things.

[B]

That's why you're a good teacher.

[A]

Right. Like when I get in the Bible, I want to understand why Hagar responds that way. I want to understand why Peter thinks that way. I want to understand the thing. So for Big Brother, for me, is watching social chess. It's understanding why people are making the moves. They. So when she had that conversation with the guy and he is confessing these really sincere feelings of being abandoned and rejected by his family. One, he just met this girl, so that means that she's created a space where he feels safe to share all of that, but how she responds to him secures that safety. And you don't understand. This is a game. That means he won't vote for her. That's the point. He's not gonna vote for her. And so I'm like, oh, yeah. I'm like. She's a. I'm like, this is great. So even if she don't win a competition, she has a person on her side. But she did that with everybody.

[C]

Everybody.

[A]

So I guess you understand what I'm saying.

[C]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

I guess. Okay. So I watched the latter end, and I was like, okay, like, even what was cold to me, I don't want to jump subjects, but what was cold to me is how you made that girl at the end think she was going to win.

[A]

Don't fast forward.

[B]

Okay. Don't fast forward. Okay, okay, okay.

[A]

Wait, wait, wait.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah, I guess.

[B]

I guess my question. My question to. To go with that is, did your. Did your. Did your time in leadership with people?

[A]

Yeah. Oh, help. Because he was very pastoral. Yes. Because you didn't affirm his sin.

[C]

I said, I understand.

[A]

You didn't affirm.

[C]

Which is what we do in ministry every single day. And like Big Brother, what people don't realize, it's a microcosm of America. You're having one type of every single person put into a house, which is like my church. I'm sitting with parents. I'm sitting with grandmothers. I'm sitting with all types of people. I've had to learn how to navigate different people who believe differently than I do. So getting a Big Brother, this is like, I've been doing this for the last 10 years.

[B]

Ministry didn't set you up.

[A]

My all this girl is a youth.

[C]

Leader, and I was. And so I didn't go on Big Brother with the intention or even the thought that ministry would help me. When you're watching the show, you're not thinking, like, 80% of the show is just living and existing, and only 20% is what you're watching online. You're stuck with these people. You have nothing else to do but to live. I'm not thinking about that as a fan of the show. So I didn't even expect the strength of growing up in ministry to help me in my game, but it massively did. My ability to hear people out, to pastor. A lot of people in that house through the game and through their personal lives, they don't show this. Day one, the live feeds are off. So we get to be free and say whatever we want. And I had recognized one of the girls, she walked outside crying. We were all. I was leading a actual Bible study night one, there's seven people brought out their Bibles. And one of the guys said, can you lead us? I said, sure. So we're outside, this girl walks outside and she's sobbing. And I saw it and I'm like, she comes over. I said, hey, are you good? She said, there's a. Inside, everybody's talking about their mothers and how much they love their mom. And she had just lost her mom. Her mom had just passed away.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

And with like eight people outside, I said, I don't know what your beliefs are. She's. She's agnostic. But do you mind if we pray? So in that moment, like we're laying hands, praying over this girl and people are sobbing. But it was in that moment I realized, like this house immediately trusted, trusted me immediately. Without me really trying. It was just me existing and being. And that unintentionally helped me in the long run. My ability. It's just dealing with people for 90 days.

[A]

But you know what? I would also suspect that doing ministry in California prepares you for that 100% because there is, There's a different development and flexibility and awareness. Somebody like Southern Christians do have a different linear approach to ministry sometimes than Christians who like for you to say, I don't know what you believe yet, we'll pray versus I don't know. There was an openness, an open handedness to the way you welcomed her in, even in light of what she may or may not believe, rather than a kind of legalistic, distant kind of thing.

[B]

And what I also, and what I also love too is, you know, I love evangelism. And so, you know, I think, I think what you had the opportunity to do is to display like wisdom, gentleness in a setting like that. Right? Because even when Jesus sent his disciples out in twos to go evangelize, he told them to be wisest serpents, but harmless as doves. And so he's essentially saying, be gentle and be cunning, discerning how to give the gospel to each. And like the way you give the gospel to this person is not how you're supposed to give the gospel to this person. So sometimes you have a legalistic fools who think they just supposed to say the same script every single time to the same person and they're not effective. And then sometimes you have passive people who don't share truth at all. And what God is actually saying is I actually want you to go into a space and discern and be wise and be cunning. Right. And so yeah, so I think that's just dope that you were able to display that because of your ministry background.

[C]

Yeah, ministry prepared me heavily for this game for sure.

[B]

That's fire.

[A]

Yearly doctor's appointments. And keeping up with overall health is important to all of us. And I want this one especially to be around a long time for the kids, but checkups can be a bit complicated.

[B]

You want me to be around for the kids, not you. You too?

[A]

This is all the same, you know what I'm saying? It's all the same.

[B]

What?

[A]

So the whole point is field of Greens has helped you to live longer. How? Just tell us how field of Greens has blessed you.

[B]

Because it is hard to live life long if you do not have good vegetable intake. And a lot of times riding around, it's just easier to eat burger and fries or whatever. And so now we have a product that allows us to get our vegetables on the go, which is huge.

[A]

There we go. There is one simple lifestyle upgrade that we can all make and that is Field of Greens. You can enjoy a delicious glass of Dr. Formulated field of Greens each day and you will feel amazing. Plus your doctor will notice your improved health and if not, your money will be given back to you. One field of Greens customer said, the best blood work I've had in a decade. My doctor said, whatever you're doing, keep doing it. Another said, for the first time in years, my cholesterol numbers are normal. And this mom said, after field of Greens, my hair, nails, energy and blood work, probably even her soul are better. And the reason why a fruit and vegetable drink can cause better health is because each fruit and vegetable and field of greens was doctor selected to support vital organs like the heart, the liver, the kidneys, the metabolism, the immune system and healthy blood sales.

[B]

Personally, ever since I've been taking Field of Greens, I've had a lot more energy, a lot more energy to just, you know, carry out my day. Not only that, my stomach doesn't hurt as much and I just kind of feel, you know, overall better, you know, and my doctor appointments have improved since I've been using it. So yeah. Thank you for the greens.

[A]

Let me get you started with 20 off and free shipping. Visit fieldofgreens.com and use our code PERRY. That's fieldofgreens.com code PERRY. Bye. That was the moment with Chemo.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And that was early.

[C]

That was probably like four days into knowing each other. When you walk in the house, you really don't know anybody. You've not met, you meet on camera. When you guys see us meet so early on, people are just pouring their lives out to me. And it's. In that moment, I was. I didn't want to keep probing. Like, I didn't want him to feel uncomfortable because you're being. There's a 100 cameras in this house. So I didn't want him to share anything that he wasn't comfortable with, but he kind of just laid it out. And you're not really thinking they're gonna air this on the show?

[A]

Oh, they did.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I found out. I haven't watched my season back, but I found out. And why haven't you watched it? Because I lived it. Like, I don't think I'm ready to watch it yet. It's so exhausting. But I'll watch it back because people say the edit was pretty dope. But I found out when they. I went to the diary room and they were like, so tell me about that conversation with Chemo.

[A]

I said, oh, it's actually. The edit was beautiful. Yes, it was a beautiful. Because it was just. It wasn't. I think I loved it because he was really honest and vulnerable. You were really caring and sensitive, while also not affirming, but also still loving all at the same time. And I'm aware of. We're not seeing the full picture. And like Preston always says, we're seed planters. And so to me, I am a big fan of. You created space for further conversation because of how you led him in that moment right now.

[B]

Good question. Are you the first believer that one Big Brother?

[A]

I don't know.

[C]

I actually do. Yeah. I actually do believe I might be the first believer that won this show.

[A]

Yeah. Well, I don't know.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I have a hard question.

[C]

Go ahead.

[A]

I don't wanna. I don't wanna just do it. I don't wanna make you uncomfortable, but I. I think. I think it's a necessary question.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

How did you also navigate your conscience when it came to having to manipulate people to get ahead in the game?

[C]

Yeah, it was a daily struggle for me. And the only way that I was able to navigate it was to compartmentalize in that house and say in the game, if I'm having a game conversation, I am just like any game night, if you're playing with my family, we're gonna tear each other down in the after, say like, what's for dinner? So that's how I viewed Big brother when it's game talk.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Cause we play mafia.

[A]

It's like mafia in spades.

[C]

It's mafia. It's a three month mafia, which we played. I had the house play mafia.

[B]

We play mafia a lot.

[C]

Yes. So does my family. So you're cutthroat, you're lying. I viewed it as a three month mafia. I also had them play it so I can navigate and see how people lie. So we play smart. Yeah, we play mafia.

[B]

People in the house play mafia.

[C]

We play mafia at least two, three times a week in that house. Yeah. And I would just sit there and evaluate. When I found out who was mafia, I'm like, okay, that's how you lie. Yeah. So I use that as a tactic.

[A]

Wow, that's crazy.

[C]

But I view big brother as a three month long mafia. And so when I would have game conversations, I'm like, this is purely game. Then when that shuts off, I'm just Chelsea. So 80% is you just living, not necessarily playing. So go ahead, go ahead. No, go ahead, go ahead.

[B]

I'm a follow up. I'm not going to ask no question. I'm just here.

[A]

No, I think this is a fascinating conversation because I think I have distinguished big brother from how I play spades.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

You get what I'm saying? Like I've wrestled with like I've had people say to me like, would you go on big brothers and da, da, da. I'm like, no. Cause I'll, I'll be evil. Like I've said that. Like, I know things will come out of me that I don't want to come out of me. But when it comes to spades, it's like, yeah, ain't no, ain't no nice Jackie. You know what I'm saying? When it comes to Mafia, ain't no nice Jackie. But it's like, I guess you saying.

[C]

That makes me say, what's the difference?

[B]

Jackie got mad at us.

[A]

And I'm not trying to just so don't hear us say we're justifying sin. I want to work this through. Yes, that's what I'm saying.

[B]

I just remember when you got mad at our friend's kids and tried to kick them out of the mafia. You said y' all could leave.

[A]

Do you know why I wanted to kick them out?

[B]

I said, jackie, they're teenagers.

[A]

Do you know why I wanted to kick them out? Because they were making decisions, decisions based off their emotions. They wanted to please their daddy. I don't want to play with people that are driven by their emotions. I want to play with people that.

[C]

Are driven by reason.

[B]

So we have a 14.

[C]

I want to see you on Big Brother.

[A]

Y' all making decisions because your daddy in the room, and that was making me mad.

[B]

One of my closest friends, lb, he has.

[A]

So y' all could leave. Truly, he was 14. He was upstairs. I don't care about fireworks. I literally went upstairs.

[B]

She got mad.

[A]

She said fireworks were being popped. I was in the basement. I don't care.

[B]

She was so mad.

[A]

I was really irritated. That's why I can't play them. I can't play certain games.

[B]

I said, Jackie, he's 14.

[A]

No, the point is he shouldn't play the game because you. You. You're too. You're too young. But I guess my point is, can. No, seriously, guys, can we work through.

[C]

Yeah, we can work through this.

[A]

How do we apply biblical principles like thou shalt not lie to games? Think. I mean, can.

[B]

Can I.

[A]

Okay, let's go there.

[C]

You guys can go all the way there. What are you gonna ask?

[B]

I want you to talk first. Because you played the game.

[C]

Here's. I. I truly went in there wanting to play a game. Like, imagine your friends that night, you guys played Mafia, and you guys just lived together for a month, and every now and then, y' all would play Mafia. That's how big Brother feels. You're just in a house with a whole bunch of people, and every now and then, you're playing Mafia, having to manipulate, lie, withhold. That's how the whole thing felt. So that's the only. I. Not. Not. I'm not saying to justify any type of sin or lying or deceit, but when it comes to games, people do it. It's a game. It's a game. So go ahead. Go ahead.

[B]

The reason why the. The reason why I think people. Help me, Holy Spirit. I think the reason why people fall into legalism is because they look at the commands of God like a rule book and not a God who sees the intention of a heart. Yeah, God, look. This is the reason why the scripture says man looks at the outer God. You know, the Pharisees, they always say, you did that. You weren't sin. But I. But I honestly think if you go Into a situation with the intention of everybody right here in this little space is playing. Mafia has potential to lie. Not to deceive or hurt you because we're playing the game. I don't think God is, this is what I just honestly feel. I don't think God is looking at a heart and saying that heart is corrupt. Yeah, it's because I think that's what, Because I think real lying comes out of a corrupt heart that wants to deceive, like truly deceive people for our own benefit and gain. Gain. But after the game, we going, we.

[C]

Going to chill and go eat.

[B]

Yeah. But not only are we going to chill, going to eat, we're all going to reveal to everybody.

[A]

Do you think that makes the difference? That.

[B]

Do you see?

[A]

Because everything is documented. It's not as though the deceit won't be uncovered. Right?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You get, you get what I'm saying?

[B]

I don't get what you're saying.

[A]

So like with mafia, when the game is over, we know who the mafia is. I kill you first because you did this. I made this move because you did this. They can watch your whole season back and see you made this movie versus when someone, someone is lying and being deceptive. There is no. The point is to hide.

[B]

The point is to remain hidden.

[A]

Right. Are you saying that that's the one of the differences?

[B]

Because it's, it's no, it's, it's no different, it's no different than me lying to you because I'm planning your birthday, surprise birthday party in a month. In a, in a month you're going to realize I was lying for a purpose. I was lying for a reason. I'm, I'm not trying to keep you in deception forever.

[C]

Yeah. The show is go and just live a whole bunch of people and the show is, is go and play this game. And the objective is only one. Only one.

[A]

Come here. What you, I want to know what you thinking. Come here. Brianna been squitting her eyes. Is her mic on? Brianna is my assistant, Brianna Holmes. Brianna been squinting. She got thoughts. I, I, I just want to know what these thoughts are. Well, this is a, this is a community conversation.

[C]

Hang on. So I understand what you're saying, Jackie.

[A]

I don't know where I'm, I'm conflicted. If I'm honest, I'm very conflicted right now. Exactly.

[C]

So at first my thought process was like, Preston and yours. I'm like, it's a game, so the intention isn't evil.

[A]

She's like.

[C]

But then after hearing what you're saying. I'm like.

[A]

Well.

[C]

It is documented.

[A]

Like.

[C]

In normal games, you play the game and once it's done, it's done, it's over. But this is, Everything's ugly.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

The only. Imagine playing mafia, and after each round, you bring somebody in a room and you put a camera on them. It's Big Brother. It's just Mafia.

[A]

You're not documenting.

[B]

That's true.

[C]

Thought process. You're thinking it. It's just you're not thinking it behind a camera.

[B]

That's true.

[C]

What's the difference?

[A]

I'm so complete.

[C]

What's the difference?

[A]

So where do you land, Brianna?

[C]

I, it's not gonna hurt my feelings. I don't say whatever. I've never watched Big Brother, so I was like, on Google, like, trying to figure out, like, what is it about? Part of me is like, it's a game, but the other part of me is like, I don't know.

[B]

Yeah, it's still lying.

[C]

It's still, it's still lying.

[A]

Deceptive.

[C]

But I'm like, but it's a game.

[B]

But it's a game. It.

[C]

Okay. Yeah.

[A]

I think this is a good conversation, though. And I, and I thank you, Brianna.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

Thank you for featuring on with the Paris. I want us. I, I like having conversations like this because I think I want Christians to be able to work through these things and be able to say, we know what scripture says to, to not lie. But we also play games. Like we play mafia, we play spades. Monopoly, even Monopoly takes some. Monopoly requires craftiness if you're gonna win. You know what I'm saying? Like, I' ma make certain moves to make sure that you don't get boardwalk.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Period. You know what I'm saying? I'm a, I'm gonna make certain, like, that's, that's the part of gameplay. And so I, I, I don't even have a concrete answer except to say, the Lord tells us not to lie. He has given us games where people lie.

[B]

What is the, what is the biblical term for what God allows people to lie?

[A]

The only, the only text in scripture where you see space for that is Rahab. Or one of the texts in scripture is when Rahab lies to protect.

[B]

But that's a biblical term. Like when you, when God allows you to lie to save a life.

[A]

Like, I don't know if a game is, is. That's not a life. Or death.

[B]

I know that's not a life. I'm not trying to compare to the game, but what I am saying Is, I think when it comes to lying, we have to understand that it's. It's a matter of the heart. It's the matter of the intention of the heart.

[A]

People are going to hate that you're saying that.

[B]

But. But it, it is.

[A]

It's a, It's a. It's a justifying sin.

[B]

I'm not justifying sin, but we.

[A]

I know what you're doing. Trying to say.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you're. You're trying to get at God looks at the heart. You're trying to get at. If I. There is a distinction between being purposely deceptive for the aim of something wicked.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Versus being deceptive for the aim of something neutral.

[B]

Yeah, it.

[A]

It's neutral if it's Monopoly, it's neutral if it's Mafia, it's neutral if it's the kids saying Eden. If I tell Eden that we. Yeah.

[B]

That we going to the Walmart, but we really driving her to Disney World, like, we just trying to support.

[A]

I think the difference is I just. I usually don't say things that aren't true. Right. So even when I've planned your parties or when I planned Megan's party, or if I've done something for the kids, I find ways to shield the truth while also not being dishonest. And so I think that might be my wrestle. Even in I. I do too.

[B]

But at the same time, if you, if you are.

[A]

It's the way. I did not expect this conversation to go this way.

[C]

Right.

[B]

No, but I'm saying. But, but I'm saying. But. But what I'm saying is if I'm planning your birthday party, right, And I don't even know he got. Got this deep. But if I'm planning your birthday party, right, and you get on to me or whatever, and like, I feel like it's gonna be wrong doing.

[A]

I might throw in a little.

[B]

Look. Nah, I'm doing this. I might doing a little fib because I'm. I'm not doing it with the intention to like, permanently deceive you. I'm. I'm doing it within it. So I do.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You're trying to throw me off the scent. Yeah, I'm saying I, I find quicker ways to throw you off the scent without.

[B]

You're such a. Yeah, I'm an honest person too. But you like an honest. Honest, Honest, honest.

[A]

It's not about being honest. Honestly. It's like, honestly, if I snitch on myself, it's not even about honesty. I think, I think I, I know more pathways to lead you to a different destination without actually having to directly lie. I just know how to say other things. That isn't even. And that might actually be worse.

[C]

And I did a little both in the big brother house, like the last week. And we'll get to it, I'm sure. But Mackenzie, one of the girls in the final two, she was like, yeah, I don't need to practice a speech. Like, my game speaks for itself. I said, yeah, don't. Yeah, you're right. Like, don't. Don't practice. I think you're fine. And I'm like, I'm going back to study. Like, I'm withholding stuff. And so I did a little both. I wasn't the type of player that went and just lied just for the sake of it. If it. If it was a matter of the game, I would. And there was a line that I wouldn't cross. Like, I'll share this story. And this is where it got a little dicey for me. But there was a situation that happened in the house towards me where they shut the live feeds down for 48 hours. There was something said to me that was just not good that they would not publicize on TV and that they protected. I was fine until I wasn't because I had dealt with four weeks of just shutting my mouth, withholding all of these things. And I just broke down. I cried, went to the upstairs doctor, and I talked to an executive. And I said, how do I deal with this person? Because I can't. I can blow up on this person and it'll be a great game move, but it'll be a terrible move as a person because his reputation is going to be tarnished. So what do I do in this instance? I'm hurt. I feel like I need to justify myself in having this conversation. It'll benefit me in this way, but it won't benefit him for multiple reasons. She said this. She said, chelsea, I'm not going to tell you what to do, but if. If I know you to be the person that you are, I would tell you to handle this how you would in the outside world. She said, said, take it to the Lord. Take it to him, and if it. If that doesn't work, bring somebody else in. She's like, I'm not going to tell you what to do, but you can. You can handle certain situations in this house as you would outside. You just have to discern when to wow.

[A]

And in that moment, using donkeys, I tell you.

[C]

So. It was a whole moment where 48 hours, they don't show any of this stuff.

[B]

She's a believer.

[C]

I, I, I don't fully know. I don't fully. I'm, I'm sure. Yeah. With her guidance.

[B]

Scripture.

[C]

Yeah. So in that moment, I was like, in that moment, I was like, this is interesting. Like, this is biblical guidance. And I used it, and it changed this guy's life. He said, I, you didn't have to forgive me in the way that you did. Had a whole moment where he cried, prayed on his bed, like, this whole thing. So in the game, there was moments where I had to discern, I can do this and it'll benefit my game, but it's really going to be a detriment to people's character. So there are certain moments in the game I did have to step in and let my morality take precedence over the game.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

100. Even at the, the final two, I was praying through God. My head was telling me one thing, my heart was telling me the other, and I was outwardly praying in the backyard, God, what do you want me to do? Because I want to make a decision that is pleasing to you, but it's also a game in $750,000 online money. So I said, what is it that I should do? And I, and I, I felt the Holy Spirit said, follow your heart. And my heart decision wasn't necessarily the wisest decision to follow. I went to the diary room, and the producer's like, I see you wrestling. What's going on? And I'm like, I'm in between these two decisions. They're like, hey, I'm not going to tell you what to do, but I feel like you should just follow your heart on this one. And I'm like, I feel like this is the Lord speaking to me. Didn't know I was going to lose the last one, but I felt like my obedience to listen to the Lord in moments like that, to potentially sacrifice.

[A]

Clarify what you mean by lose.

[C]

What you mean, like, like lose the game. The decision that my heart was saying to make. I felt like I could have lost the game by making that decision. And. But I had two confirmations. I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna trust the Lord in it. If I have an opportunity to make this decision, I'm gonna follow my heart and trust the Lord with it. And after I won, I felt like the Lord was just waiting, like, are you really gonna care about me over this money at the end of the day? And I had that decision to make. Thank God I didn't have to actually make the decision. But there was moments in the house where I had to wrestle with. With is this game or is this real life? And it's constant juggle of discernment of when to compartmentalize, when to turn it on, when to turn it off. But at the end, how the ending played out with the unanimous vote wasn't just my gameplay. It was a huge testament to my relationship with these people that still stands to this day.

[A]

Cause the interesting nature of Big Brother is they have these games toward the end where basically the last two, three people, they like, the person chooses the person to sit next to them, and then the jury votes for that person. So it's like, serious. Who you decide who sits next to you? Cause, like, they might vote for the person you choose to sit next to you to win over you. Does that make sense? You know what I'm saying? So it's like, that's serious. But I think Chelsea to get voted, like, every single person that got voted out in the jury voted for her to win. But mind you, she played all these people, and they knew it, but she loved all these people. So it's like, that's a part of, I think, the skill set that she brought to the table.

[B]

And I'm assuming, because you are a believer, that your love was genuine and pure, too, for a lot of these people.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And you were able to navigate them because you had that experience. You know what I'm saying? But at the same time, you still trying to beat them 100%.

[C]

I'm like, I'mma love y', all, but I'm not losing this game.

[B]

And so how much was your love for them a game and pure, like, does that make sense?

[C]

That's a great question. I don't. With certain players, I wouldn't even say it's my love for them, but it's my willing to. My willingness to deal with them.

[A]

I can imagine.

[C]

Because you. You saw the certain characters.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

The one lady, she was like.

[C]

So it wasn't necessarily saying, like, my love was the thing that caused her to vote for me or him to vote for me. I was able to just to deal with those people with grace more than a lot of other people in the house, but other people. My love was actually completely genuine for them.

[A]

Him. Yeah.

[B]

Am I the only one seeing how. How deeply Christian this is? This is. This is actually like God. Like. Like God teaches us how to bear with people long. This I hear long suffering, bearing. I hear wisdom being wise as serpents, but harmless as doves. I hear all of the Christian principles that God tells us to implement with people in the world and it helps you win the game. This is so fascinating.

[A]

I feel like your experience is such a. I don't think anybody can relate to it truly.

[C]

I don't think so either.

[A]

I'm trying to find an example and it's like there is no. It's not a nine. There's not a nine to five. There's not a. You went on a reality show.

[C]

Oh yeah.

[B]

I want to submit something.

[A]

And one as a. Where you had to navigate these in.

[B]

I want to submit something.

[A]

A conundra.

[C]

It. No, it is. It's still confusing to me to this day.

[B]

Like cuz this, this like, like I want to submit this to you.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

This can be turned into a book.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because this is a picture of how God sends people out. People always talk about I'm an a, I'm an apostle. It's like apostle means someone who is sent. You literally went out into not just the world but in a, a very worldly game and you were able to use Christian principles to make people trust you. I'm telling. I'm going to go back to what Jesus told the. The disciples. Be wise as serpents, Bahamas as doves. He was saying, yo, you had like. In my book, I said the gospel is the most important message that we can ever give. That's why it's important how we give it. And it's important how we give it by the way we allow people to be drawn to us because people don't care what you know until they know that you care. And so you being able to be launched out into the world to be sent in a way by your pastors or whatever, who gave you that permission? They sent you out in the world and you use godly principles to make people trust you.

[A]

She won too.

[B]

And she won.

[A]

She also, she won games. Yeah.

[C]

I'm tied with like the most hoh wins.

[A]

So it wasn't even just social stuff.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Yeah. I played well. Yeah.

[B]

And that's another thing.

[C]

It's crazy.

[B]

So that's, that's another thing. That's another thing I think you told me, if I can remember you was like for people to actually win games and to be trusted by people, you're actually more of a threat.

[A]

You're social and game like.

[B]

But you told me something along the lines, you're actually more of a threat when you win games.

[C]

Yeah, you are. And the person who wins, head of household. You're basically like the king or queen. Every person that won my season. You can't play the next head of household that next week. They were evicted the next week because of how they handled their power. I was the only person that I won the most. I won four times my whole season. And the only other person that's won is won after me. So, yeah, I. I had the most, like, target on my back. Mo. Everybody should have came after me. And I was shocked that they didn't. I'm sitting here like, it didn't make no sense. It. No, it made no sense to me either.

[A]

You were hidden in the bosom of his way. I'm trying to tell you. I said, what is going on? You love people.

[C]

Well, yes and no.

[A]

They was coming for it, though. But sometimes at the end, they. At the. They was. They was like, I don't know why y' all not looking at Chelsea?

[C]

Yeah, they. They started to look at me towards the end and saw like, I think she's playing all of us. But there's a lot of players who've played similar games to me and their cast relationship with them post the show. So for me, I was like, how are they going to handle. Still in relationship heavily with these people who I completely fooled for three months.

[A]

Have y'. All. Have y' all processed through that?

[C]

Yeah, people have left the show and took the whole game personally. And it has massively affected them. Like, they give us therapists for two years post the show because some people don't. It psychologically don't handle that well. It's like you go through it on the show and not having, like, your safety net. You can't sing, you can't hum in that house. Like, usually when I'm stressed, I'll go worship or. You can't do any of this.

[B]

Why can't you sing?

[C]

Copyright issues.

[A]

Because everything is recorded.

[C]

Recorded 24 7.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

You can't write, right?

[C]

You can't write. So you bring no writing utensils. So I was studying with Q tips like stats, so there's no way to escape like, or to process in this house. So people get kicked off the show and they're just thrown. And then you're thrown into a world where the fan base can be very evil. Like, very, very evil. That's where a lot of people struggle when they get out the house.

[A]

How? How? Because I've seen where people have left the house and have really had. It's done a doozy on their relationships in life. And so how did you. How was that process of re entering back into your own community it was.

[C]

Hard to be honest because now you're entering back into my community that actually loves and cares for me. That was, like, normal. When you have those outliers of people you were kind of cool with, you're now trying to navigate. Are you trying to leech onto me because of this? So now relationships were already sketchy for me prior to the show. So it's just an added layer where you feel like, you know, are people now leeching onto me because I was on a television show? So that was an interesting dynamic. And even with the hat we have to work through with your cast, we had to work through some. I sat with hours with a lot of cast members who needed to process. Why did this happen? Why did this happen? And I would sit hours with a lot of cast members and have conversations and flush this out and say, that was a game. We're cool now. But my feelings were a little bit hurt in this moment. There was things I said on the show that I. That I regret. There's things that I did on the show that I regret that I had opportunity to go back and apologize for. So I'm not saying I was perfect in this process, but I. The values that I owned up to. Casts are starting to see it when cameras aren't there, and. Which still leaves a level of trust that they all still have for me because they see my love as pure and genuine. But I was not about to lose this show, and they knew I was a super fan. But, yeah, relationally, it's difficult to get back. They say it takes about two years for you to feel normal back into society.

[A]

Does it feel like that?

[C]

Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely. It feels weird. Just re. Acclimating back into the world when you've been in jail. Yes. Like. Like a solitary confinement, but a little bougie. That's what it felt like. They. Your food. You're getting through a storage room. Like, you have to. You have to press buttons to be entered into rooms. You feel like a dog. It's the weirdest. It's the weirdest experience. So leaving, like, you shower and you're covered, but, like, there's cameras that could see your, like, neck. And, like, you're showering. You're. There's one bathroom. People know when you're, like, pooping. You know what I'm saying? So it was weird.

[B]

Y' all only got one bathroom.

[A]

Yeah. Has a bathroom.

[B]

And then they can get y' all three bathrooms. At least.

[C]

They could have. They didn't come on.

[B]

So y'.

[A]

All.

[B]

Y' all Gotta change that.

[A]

I think that's a part of.

[B]

Come on, man.

[C]

It's part of the game.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

It's sort of this, like, psychological turmoil that they're trying to bring.

[B]

I don't want to smell anybody.

[A]

Doo, doo.

[C]

Yeah, we did. Yeah. You get very close very fast with these people. You learn their whole lives. But it's hard to re. Re. Acclimate. You're given therapists because it's like you're stuck in jail. And we didn't. I didn't know that there was a potential assassination attempt. I didn't. Of any natural Donald Trump on Trump.

[A]

Oh, oh. Cause you're completely unaware of social.

[C]

Of what's happening in the world. So I'm sitting in finale and Julie is stating this stuff. We're like, what happened?

[B]

It's crazy.

[A]

I don't know nothing.

[C]

We know nothing. So I get out the house and my.

[B]

I was in London with my pastor eating food when it happened.

[C]

We was like, I had no idea until we're sitting in the chairs on national television being told this. I'm like, what happened?

[B]

Dang.

[C]

So after the show, I only got 10 minutes with my parents before interviewing views, and they're like spilling everything that happened in the last three and a half months. And I'm sitting there like, no, yeah, you're completely isolated. You go, I left July 4th, and I got back October 15th.

[A]

That's wild, bro.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

[A]

So in the same way that ministry prepared you for the Big Brother house, how do you think God will use the Big Brother house to prepare you now for re entering back into ministry?

[B]

That's a great question.

[C]

I'm in the middle of processing that and learning how he's using me. I think now he's given me a platform to reach a lot of non believers as. Whereas before I'm working for a church, you're really reaching people who already have a basic knowledge of who God is. Now I'm having dinners with people who've played Big Brother, who are atheists, who are agnostic. So though my platform is different, the mission is still the same. So. But it's more challenging because honestly, working in ministry vocationally was easier than what I'm doing now.

[A]

Why?

[C]

Because, number one, I was in youth ministry, so it's just like, teach them basic fundamentals and have fun. Okay. But as a creative director, I'm just. I'm not really having to deal with people who have completely different worldviews. When they're stepping in the church, they're already. They've Come with some level of openness to what. Where they want to hear about the gospel. I'm sitting with people who want nothing to do, love me, want nothing to do with it. How do I balance that? So it's been interesting to see the Lord just put me now in platforms where this stage is bigger, but who I'm reaching, it's. It's just more. It's more so evangelism. And I wasn't really in that camp before, so I. I never imagined myself sitting with people who are like, so how do you pray? Like, people have grown up, had no idea, no concept of. Of God or Christianity. I am introducing that. But I think the Lord prepared me for post Big Brother before I. I had wrestled with a season in January where I felt like hidden, unseen, very lonely and isolated. And I remember reading a book called Anonymous that Talks about the 30 years of Jesus life before he enters ministry. And I read that and it knocked off a lot of pride in me in that season to say, if nobody's watching what I'm doing in ministry, if nobody's applauding me or saying, good job, am I still content? And when I read that book and I was wrestling through that, I feel like in my hiddenness, when God hiding me was protection at the end of the day because it. It knocked off premature exposure. And now that I have ex.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. That got. That got to me. I felt that in my chest.

[C]

And had I been exposed to the platform that I had now without being in my season of hiddenness, I would have left very arrogant rather than grateful, saying, this is only God.

[A]

That's good.

[C]

So he had to hide me before Big Brother. He had to have me go through it before Big Brother. Because now post it as I'm standing on stage in front of. Of 13 million people, am I going to give God the glory at the end of the day or am I. Am I going to say it's me?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So he prepared me before. He prepared me to be hidden so that exposure doesn't get to me. So now I'm not chasing the lights or the opportunity. I'm chasing an opportunity to introduce people who probably would have never heard who God is. I have a lot of. And you saw it on the show, people who have been scarred by the church.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

Don't want nothing to do with it.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But they will sit and have dinner with me.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And that's been so new. So I think the Lord. Yeah. Prepared ministry was a great launching pad for me to deal with people who.

[B]

That'S so beautiful to me. That's so beautiful to me because, you know, throughout the years, I've seen a lot of criticism from people online who criticize certain Christians for going to certain spaces. Like, why you on that award show? Why you on this? Why you on that? And one thing that I've always told people is every single time I see people make comments like that, the only thing I see is how, how unevangelistic you are. You don't understand evangelism at all. And what's sad is a lot of the Christian church don't understand what it means to be evangelistic, which is the reason why they're so critical of people, Christians who go in certain spaces and, and, and, and the reason why they, their minds can't understand it because we're so, we're so inward thinking. We're so, we supposed to do this within the church. We almost, we almost begin to treat the church kind of like a cult, 100% as if we're supposed to be so inward thinking. And we don't understand how God in his sovereignty and in his wisdom, strategically wants to place Christians in unlikely spaces to do unlikely things, to bring unlikely people to the, to the kingdom of God. You know what I'm saying? And so like, and so like, yeah, sometimes, you know, it's hard. I think the hardest thing about evangelism sometimes is that the, the criticism of Christians, they just don't understand that God actually sends Christians in spaces to be a light. You know what I mean? But yeah, yeah, that's what it made me think.

[C]

And I think that like, before the show, just my knowledge and my experience with God, I, I was aware that suffering is part of the process. So post Big Brother, yeah, I won a large sum of money, but has gone through a lot of turmoil, criticism and suffering along that process. So it hasn't broken, broken me. I'm like, this is par for the course. So my faith is the thing that's sustaining me post this show, causing me to not be arrogant, but also causing me to sustain through the criticism because I wasn't well received by everybody.

[A]

Ye. I know, I know, girl.

[C]

So, so, yeah, crazy experience.

[B]

But did you, did you get hate.

[C]

Mail from death threats still to this day?

[B]

Wow.

[C]

To this day, yeah.

[B]

Death threats from people who are just mad at you for what?

[C]

For. I mean, I get mad at me for winning the game, to be honest, but like death threats going after my race, going after my looks like people. Yeah, it got really bad online to where execs were like, Don't. As soon as I got off the show, they're like, don't go on social media. Because there's some things I had to have some security in certain places that I went to because people, the fan base of Big Brother, people of color aren't necessarily well received. We had our first Black winner 23 seasons in, so now we're in season 26. Them seeing a person of color win is already something that they're not used to in the last 20 plus years.

[B]

Racism then crept into Big Brother.

[C]

Yeah. No, it has. And I didn't, I hadn't dealt with that in ministry prior to that. So that was an added layer that I had to deal with post the show. That I was well received by most, but that small few that just felt louder than everything else. But it was bad. Like death threats, all of that stuff for playing a game.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

How dare you, a black person, win our game?

[A]

It's insane.

[C]

No, it's bad.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

If I had my Bible, because this.

[C]

Is like an nsb and how can you read that? The letters are.

[A]

I can't, like, this ain't really my Bible. So I can't find the verse because I know how it is stuff is positioned. But there's this verse. I put it on threads the other day. All right, it's Jeremiah 12:5. It says, if you have raced with runners and they have worn you out about how can you compete with horses? If you stumble in a peaceful land, what will you do in the thickets of Jordan? And the Lord gives that to Jeremiah. After Jeremiah is complaining about the persecution he's receiving because he's like, amen. Like, there's just a lot of chit chatter. Like, it's like, these trials are a bit rough for me. I don't really like it. I'm not a fan. It's a lot. And God in response is like, well, if you're, if you race with runners and that's too much, what you gonna do when it's time to compete with horses? Meaning what you're going through now, it might be hard, but what you're about to go through will be harder. So I'm preparing you. And so I, I, I wonder even if the Lord is using the vitriol from your wind to even prepare you for your ministry.

[B]

Come on now.

[A]

You know what I'm saying? Like, it's like, like if, if you're, if you're going through death threats, it's like, oh, that sound. Like, that's like. And that's not even persecution for Christ.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

That's just for skin color. So imagine, like, that. That's. That's intense. So I. To me, it means, like, if that's the worst y' all got, then, like, I can be courageous now when it comes to what I need to do for the gospel. And so I. I say go for it forth.

[C]

And I will.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, and I will.

[A]

That's crazy.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

It's something about that excite me. You said I'm a die. Goodness gracious. All right.

[C]

Over a game. It's crazy.

[A]

Again.

[C]

Our game is crazy.

[A]

So what y' all gonna do when I start telling y' all to repent?

[B]

Wow.

[C]

And that's something I had to wrestle with. That's something I had to wrestle with. I'm like, if they hate me for this, just wait till they fully know what I stand for.

[A]

What's the. What's the thing y' all be doing? That's what I'm saying, man.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, wow. I'm excited. I'm glad to. To know you, Chelsea. I. I just. I loved. Loved watching you play. I just. I really. I might watch that season back in place of this one.

[B]

Day. She said, I'm gonna put you on the spot. She said.

[A]

Said, I want to DM her right now. I. I really. She said. Then she said, oh, would I look like a fan if I asked her the number?

[C]

But here's the crazy part. As soon as I got out the house, I'm f. I finally get my phone two days after, and my best friend is calling me. She actually went to the podcast tour. The first thing you said, you were like, I want teeth like you. She had great, perfect teeth. I'm like, what? You said that you did? I said that about you to my best friend.

[B]

Y' all took pictures with us and vip.

[C]

Vip.

[A]

So that's a ridiculous name, that best friend.

[B]

That's something you would say.

[C]

That is something she would say. So that best friend, she was the first person I called. She was like, girl didn't tell me anything other than Jackie watched your season. I said, of course. I said, I knew she watched Big Brother, but I didn't think she would tune in. She was like, no. She, like, wanted you to win. That's the first thing I heard getting out of the Big Brother house, and I died. Cause I've been a fan. I've been following y', all, both of y', all, since P4CM, when y' all came to speak at my channel Church Abundant living in Rancho.

[A]

So that Big, big, big church.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

We got proposed that when he proposed for me yet.

[C]

Did you propose there?

[A]

The big one? It's like 3,000 people.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh wow.

[C]

That's where I work.

[B]

That's where I proposed that.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

That's a big.

[C]

So I've been following your guys's stuff since P4MD.

[B]

Since like 2011.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Oh my gosh.

[C]

With Ezekiel genetics, I was probably like. I was 14. So. Yeah. So when she told me all Jackie. Jackie was a fan. I was like, praise God. Cause she could have either loved me or hated me.

[A]

I would go, hate you, girl. I wouldn't go at you. I wasn't like. I, yeah, it just. I, yeah, I told, I was telling the person. I was like, I really feel like a. A fan. But I was, I was, I was praying for you afterwards and so that's why I was so glad to see you at act because I was just like. I was thinking about the warfare that you were probably enduring during it. I was thinking about the lack of community that you had. How drained and tired that would be. Just as a human, to not have your people, to not have music, to not have just normalcy, to not have church, to not have sermons. And then to be pushed back out into the world with winning, with money, with fame, with celebrity. And then I was like, that's just a lot. So I just was praying that the Lord would come for you and comfort you and fill you and surround you and secure you and do all the things. And so like I really, really am glad to see that the Lord has sustained you in light of all the stuff, you know, because the devil is just. He's a loser. But the Lord keeps his people.

[C]

Yeah. Thanks for praying. You guys were. AX was like a safe place for me. Right. I went seven days after I got out the show.

[A]

You was fresh.

[C]

I was fresh out and it. And I needed it very badly. I. Yeah, I was not well and being thrust into that space immediately I found like, I found my North Star. And hearing that you, like, you told me that you were praying for me when I got the house and I'm like, lord, what in the world of all of the bad things that are happening post the show, like, aside from the money, I didn't get the check months later, so I was still broke. I worked in ministry before. Okay. Bank account was low, close to the negatives. That's all I say. Praise God. I won like cuz it would have been real rough, but to hear somebody like you guys and you specifically, that was Praying for me post the show. I'm like, what are the. What are the odds that that's the way that the Lord connected I you and I. And that alone gave me enough to say, okay, I'm not hated. If Jackie Hill Perry is texting me and not, you know, telling me to go, like, repent because you're an evil human, then you know, I'm okay.

[B]

That's good. Well, before we leave, I do feel led to just pray for her. Can we do that?

[C]

Yes, of course.

[B]

Okay, let's pray. De Heavenly Father, Lord, we thank you God for this podcast. We thank you God for just giving us the the insight into the Big Brother home through the life of one of your children. And so God, we just thank you God for sending your people all over the world, even in Big Brother houses, to be alone light. And God, we just pray for the relationships that Chelsea has built through this game. We pray, God, that you would just continue to cultivate those relationships, to nourish those relationships, that a lot of those relationships will come to bear fruit and repentance and lifelong friendships. And God, we just pray for her. We pray God, for her mind. You are the God of her mind. You are the God of her heart. And so God, I just pray God, that whatever effects that the game might have on people after this game, that it would not be the same for your daughter. That you, God, the God that can heal or deliver from anything, will be the source of her peace, will be the source of all comfort. And I just pray God against the attacks on her life. The devil is a liar and there is no truth in him. And so I pray against every evil attack, every demonic attack, every lie, every evil person that has raised their head up and raised their mouth, mouth against her in judgment. I pray God that you shall show show to be in the wrong. And I just pray God that you will send a body of believers to love on her and to support her and whatever mission that you have for her to do after this, I pray God that you will go before her. Because if you go before her, nothing can be against her. And so God, I pray God that you will equip her for the work ministry, that you will equip her for the work of to to be an evangelist or teacher, whatever it is, God, I pray God that you will equip her her and that you will send people to to assist her and love her. We thank you. We love you. We believe you for all we have asked Jesus name, we pray.

[C]

Amen.

[A]

Amen.

[C]

Thank you so much.

[A]

Bye, y'. All. Peace with the Perries is produced by the Perrys with support from Amanda reed and Channing McBride. Video recording and audio production by Matthew Baxter and Xavier Fairley. Edited by the team at Tread Lively. Artwork by Hop and music by Swoop. Thank you for listening. Listening now go with God.