“What’s Love Got to do With it” with Jada Edwards

Summary

Podcast Summary: “What’s Love Got to Do With It” with Jada Edwards
With The Perrys | Hosts: Preston Perry & Jackie Hill Perry
Guest: Jada Edwards
Date: December 8, 2025

---

Episode Overview

This episode of With The Perrys dives deep into the meaning and practice of love from a Christian perspective, featuring author and speaker Jada Edwards. With humor and candor, the conversation wrestles with what it truly means to love others—not just in theory or sentiment, but through hard-won decisions, obedience to God, and spiritual transformation. Drawing from Jada’s new book, “A New Way to Love Your Neighbor: Be Curious, Free, and Brave,” the trio explores their own struggles, practical wisdom, and the tension between divine love and human imperfection.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “Rapture Hype” and the Hunger for Secrets

[00:15 - 02:22]

• Opening banter about recent social media rapture panic.
• Preston and Jackie note how conspiracy and seeking secret spiritual knowledge often trump simple trust in Scripture.
• Jackie Perry [01:12]: “You’re not reading your Bible or you’re reading it and not believing it.”
• They connect this to gnosticism—wanting knowledge God hasn’t given.
• Quote: “Eve wanted to have knowledge that God didn’t give her. To this day, we want knowledge that God did not give us.” — Preston Perry, [02:16]

2. Introducing Jada Edwards and Her New Book

[03:35 - 04:47]

• A lighthearted segue into Jada’s presence and her new book: A New Way to Love Your Neighbor, challenging surface-level or personality-driven love.

3. Love as Identity, Not Just Action

[04:48 - 08:46]

• Jackie admits love is a challenge for her personally, sparking candid reflections from Jada.
• Jada’s Testimony: God revealed to her that she loved her desired outcomes (in marriage, ministry, etc.) more than she loved Him Himself.
• Love is not just acts of kindness or personality traits—it’s an identity and a calling.
• “The person who is loving determines the value of the one they love, not the other way around.” — Jada Edwards, [33:17]
• Referencing 1 Corinthians 13: even the best ministry efforts are empty without love as the driver.

4. How God’s Specific Love Changes How We Love Others

[09:58 - 11:56; 14:49 - 17:38]

• Jada emphasizes the importance of internalizing specific ways God has loved us—not just generic “God loves the world” faith.
• She reflects on how recalling God’s grace in our own story is the only way to authentically pass it to others.
• “You have to be more of a pass-through than the source.” — Jada Edwards, [11:38]
• Jackie: Many acknowledge God’s love intellectually, but struggle to experience its depth and let it shape their response to others.

5. Shame, Forgiveness, and “Scorekeeping”

[18:00 - 23:00]

• The group discusses how holding onto personal shame translates to being unable to forgive or give grace to others.
• Jackie Perry, [19:45]: “You carry your own shame, which then translates to you expecting other people to carry theirs.”
• Jada: “If I am dealing with my own shame and guilt…I cannot just keep mine to myself. And you got a clean slate.”
• True forgiveness for others requires that we first accept God’s forgiveness for ourselves.

6. Family of Origin, Achievement, and Parental Wounds

[27:02 - 31:59]

• Preston and Jada discuss how their views of love are shaped by their parents, especially fathers.
• Jada notes achievement-based family dynamics translate into conditional feelings of being loved by God or others.
• Healing and mature love require seeing how the gospel intersects with our story—not just knowing abstract Bible truths.

7. Defining Biblical Love (Agape)

[32:42 - 36:29]

• Jada gives a powerful biblical definition of love:
  • Divine benevolence/charity; the lover assigns the value; it’s not earned.
  • It’s initiating—makes the first move, regardless of reciprocation.
• “Initiating love is hard. It is initiating love and saying…I’m called to assign a value to you that you cannot change.” — Jada Edwards, [35:23]

8. Love Is a Decision, Not Just a Feeling

[36:39 - 42:19]

• The vast majority of biblical love is active, not reactive or driven by sentiment.
• Jada: Love often entails hard boundaries and wise decisions—loving well does not mean lacking wisdom.
• “Love without condition is not love without wisdom.” — Jada Edwards, [42:17]

9. Grace for the Slow Process of Growth

[13:31–13:57; 52:12–52:23]

• Growth in love is gradual. Recognize and accept the slow, sometimes uncomfortable process of sanctification.
• Jackie: Don’t expect to become “Apostle John” overnight.

10. The Role of the Holy Spirit & Slowing Down

[61:51 - 68:42]

• Spiritual fruit, including love, is produced by the Spirit—not solely by human effort.
• Jada: The key is to slow your pace, ask God for direction, discern what love looks like in each circumstance.
• Example: Listening to the Spirit to comfort/encourage a struggling friend instead of simply checking off a task list.
• “There is something to be said about pace. And everything around us works against that—to slow down and let the Spirit say what He’s trying to say.” — Jada Edwards, [63:50]

11. Practical Sacrifice and Unseen Acts

[57:41 - 60:29]

• Jada recounts a profound moment when, instead of demanding compliance from her daughter, she simply cleaned her room as an act of undeserved grace—models how God meets us in our weakness.
• “Sometimes the bigger impact is the unexplained grace. Yeah, that’s the bigger impact. Just do it.” — Jada Edwards, [58:43]

12. Forgiveness, Boundaries, and Divine Love

[69:52 - 79:31]

• Multifaceted approach to forgiveness:
  • Everyday offenses (let go, grow in minimizing what offends you)
  • Significant wounds (processing may take years; release debt even if reconciliation doesn’t occur)
• Healthy forgiveness may include recognizing boundaries as wise, not unloving.
• “Do I still want God’s best for you? When I see you get promoted… How does that make me feel? That’s how I know I forgave.” — Jada Edwards, [79:01]
• It’s not always possible or healthy to resume close relationships with those who’ve harmed us, even after forgiveness.

13. The Ultimate Test: Love of Neighbor Reflects Love of God

[80:13 - End]

• The episode closes with emphasis: Genuine love for others is the marker of a disciple. You can’t claim love for God and not love people.
• Jackie Perry [80:15]: “If you don’t love people, you ain’t loving God. So this is a major discipleship issue…”

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “[God told me] you love what you want me to do in your marriage more than you’re loving Me…you’ve got some things out of order.” — Jada Edwards [06:18]
• “Love is not personality-driven. It’s not even acts of kindness. It’s…deeper. It’s identity. It’s calling.” — Jada Edwards [07:15]
• “You have to be more of a pass-through than the source.” — Jada Edwards [11:38]
• “Because I remind myself, I guilt myself…that’s what you do to yourself.” — Jada Edwards [19:56]
• “A lot of times, we come into Christianity projecting the wounds we got from our parents onto God.” — Preston Perry [27:02]
• “If I’m full…I don’t have room for offense.” — Jada Edwards [51:14]
• “Love without condition is not love without wisdom.” — Jada Edwards [42:17]
• “Sometimes the act itself is not changed, but God’s changing your heart about the thing.” — Jada Edwards [66:38]
• “Do I still want God’s best for you?...That’s how I know I forgave.” — Jada Edwards [79:04]
• “If you don’t love people, you ain’t loving God.” — Jackie Hill Perry [80:15]

---

Important Segment Timestamps

| Time | Topic | |---|---| | 00:15–02:22 | “Rapture Hype” & hunger for secret knowledge | | 04:48–08:46 | Love as identity; not performance | | 14:49–17:38 | Experiencing God’s specific love | | 18:00–23:00 | Shame, forgiveness, and “scorekeeping” | | 27:02–31:59 | Parental influences and love | | 33:17–36:29 | Defining Biblical (Agape) love | | 36:39–42:19 | Love as a decision, not feeling; boundaries | | 52:12–52:23 | The desire for the fullness of God’s love | | 57:41–60:29 | Parenting, sacrifice, undeserved grace | | 61:51–68:42 | Role of the Holy Spirit, pace, and wisdom | | 69:52–79:31 | Forgiveness and boundaries; practical wisdom | | 80:15–End | Love as the core of discipleship |

---

Tone and Takeaways

The conversation is authentic, vulnerable, and imbued with practical theological wisdom. The hosts and guest never shy from the wrestle, using humor and relatable stories to drive home hard lessons about the messiness—and necessity—of biblical love.

Listeners will walk away challenged to reckon honestly with how they give and receive love, equipped to examine their motives, and freed to pursue real transformation—not just behavior modification—by abiding in God’s love. This episode is a must-listen for anyone grappling with grace, forgiveness, boundaries, and what it means to truly follow Jesus.

---

Final Word:
Love is messy, sacrificial work rooted in a supernatural, initiating charity—not achievement, sentiment, or reciprocation. To love like Christ is to slow down, lean on the Spirit, and courageously let God rewrite the story of how and why we love others.

Transcript

[Jackie Perry]

Foreign.

How are you?

[Preston Perry]

What's up with y'? All?

[Jackie Perry]

Hope you're blessed. Hope you're highly favored, like Mary.

Christ, Mary's mom. Jesus mom.

[Preston Perry]

Yeah. Remember, I don't know how you feel that, you know, the world ain't. Because this episode came out later, but like yesterday, people thought the world was about to end because it was like the whole week of like the Rapture and stuff like that. Guess what?

[Jackie Perry]

We're still here. This is the bucko. This is the thing. I didn't know that was a thing until I was on Threads and I just kept seeing a lot of people talk about the Rapture and I'm like, why are we talking about the, like, what's going. And I didn't pay a lot of attention to it because I just don't have the energy. I'm. I'm close to 40 and I'm getting. I'm getting to that point where I don't just care about stuff. It's just like, that's stupid. But at the same time, it was like.

I don't know. I can't explain what I mean.

[Preston Perry]

Yeah, I saw people on TikTok buying crackers and water and trying to find shelter. And I'm like, wow, y' all really believe this? I mean, y' all don't believe Mark and Matthew.

[Jada Edwards]

That's.

[Jackie Perry]

Or Thessalonian. It's giving.

[Preston Perry]

Know thou world today.

[Jackie Perry]

It's giving. I. I think most people knew it was a sham, but for those who didn't, it gives.

[Preston Perry]

I don't.

[Jackie Perry]

I'm gonna say this lovingly. You're not reading your Bible or you're reading it and not believing it.

[Preston Perry]

I know we're not talking about. Can we just briefly talk about why do you think so many people believed it?

[Jackie Perry]

They're not reading their Bibles, but I.

[Preston Perry]

Think, I think it's something under there.

[Jackie Perry]

Well, I think also people are. People are addicted to conspiracy and prophecy. And so they might think that somebody has a special insight. Prophetic word.

[Preston Perry]

He coming in a Hyundai that is.

[Jackie Perry]

Distinct from God's authoritative reveal word. So they're leaning on the word of a so called prophet rather than actual scripture.

[Jada Edwards]

Yeah.

[Preston Perry]

Because I think that's a guess. I think that we love.

Getting information.

That, that, that's not in the scriptures because we just love like secret things.

[Jackie Perry]

Gnosticism. Yeah.

[Preston Perry]

It's no different than in the garden.

[Jackie Perry]

It's like, ooh, I'm in the what Eve? I'm in the divine in crowd. And I know something that you don't know, so I'm gonna get cancer. And why you getting cans? Shouldn't you. Shouldn't you be preparing to go?

[Preston Perry]

Yes.

[Jackie Perry]

If you getting cans, that should be an indictment on your faith.

[Preston Perry]

That's a very good point.

[Jackie Perry]

That's just me.

[Jada Edwards]

Yeah.

[Jackie Perry]

It's just.

[Preston Perry]

It's just Eve. Eve wanted to. To have knowledge that God didn't give her. To this day, we won. Knowledge that God did not give us.

[Jackie Perry]

But what we do know is that Jada Edwards is here with us. We know that.

[Jada Edwards]

Did not buy one can of cracker. I'm not preparing to stay. Uhhuh, uhhuh, uhhuh.

[Jackie Perry]

We're going to be caught up in the sky.

[Jada Edwards]

Go.

[Jackie Perry]

Okay.

[Jada Edwards]

Make sure my stove is off.

[Jackie Perry]

How you. How you doing, Mrs. Mrs. Edwards?

[Jada Edwards]

I am blessed, and I am highly favorite, so glad to.

[Preston Perry]

And your outfit. Drippy.

[Jackie Perry]

Yeah.

[Jada Edwards]

Well, thank you.

[Jackie Perry]

It matches the tone of the couch and things.

[Jada Edwards]

This is a napping couch. I don't know how y' all having conversations, cuz I know it's calling me.

[Jackie Perry]

It's a suction, and people don't know. It's when it's actually all together, it's like this little corner is like a corner, and that little corner, it's a.

[Jada Edwards]

Bit like y' all would be like, where is it? She's in that couch.

[Preston Perry]

Not only a lot of things are in this couch. We've lost a lot of things in this couch, and I don't think we're ever going to find it.

[Jada Edwards]

I'm sure it's a person in here. So we take it a nap.

[Jackie Perry]

What you lost?

[Preston Perry]

Ooh. You want to know the craziest thing I lost on the couch?

[Jackie Perry]

You cleaned it? Is it just in there?

[Preston Perry]

No. No. It's not food. Want to know the craziest thing I lost in the couch?

[Jackie Perry]

Your wedding ring?

[Preston Perry]

No.

[Jackie Perry]

Your phone?

[Preston Perry]

No.

[Jackie Perry]

Your mind?

[Preston Perry]

One of my pistols. Preston, I'm dead serious.

[Jada Edwards]

So at any moment, something could just bang.

[Jackie Perry]

I just.

[Preston Perry]

I found it. I found it. I took a nap on the couch, and I'm like, where did.

[Jackie Perry]

Napping with a gun is insane. We live in the forest.

[Preston Perry]

You want to know why?

[Jackie Perry]

What are you afraid of? You think you still in Rosalin? No.

[Preston Perry]

You want to know why? You want to know why I be having my pistol? I be going out by the little trail, and it be coyotes. I saw a bobcat. I said, why do I live?

[Jackie Perry]

You think it's gonna walk in the.

[Preston Perry]

House in the wild safari?

[Jackie Perry]

Do you think it's gonna walk in the house?

[Preston Perry]

It's not gonna walk in the house. I walked in the house, and I was so tired, I didn't even take my shoes off. I just fell asleep on the couch. And I didn't even have my. I didn't realize I had my gun on me. And it kind of slipped out.

Anyways. I feel so much judgment. What we talking about, Ms. Jada Edwards?

[Jackie Perry]

You got a new book. Just making sure I'm not about to roll over on a pistol. I want to read your book accurately.

[Preston Perry]

The pistol is. I've been found.

[Jackie Perry]

He's been.

I just think that's so crazy. And that's why he waited to say that on. On here. Cause we wouldn't have no real conversation. Ms. J. Edwards, her book is called A new way to love your neighbor. Be curious, free, and brave. How to transform your relationships with God and others. I don't never like when people ask the question of why you wrote the book. I'm not going to lead that way because it's just like, read the book and you'll know why she wrote it.

[Jada Edwards]

You know why I wrote it.

[Jackie Perry]

But one. One convert or one scenario you talk about in the beginning of the book is how you real. Not merely that you struggle with love, but that your struggle with love was affecting and spilling over into your marriage, relationships and all other relationships. And I have always felt like a person where I'm like, I can teach. That's a gift. I can think. That's a gift. I can create. That's a gift. I can execute. That's a gift.

[Jada Edwards]

Love.

[Jackie Perry]

Love is difficult for me and always has been difficult for me. So I think reading your book and hearing your insight and your instruct is both convicting, challenging, but also. What's the word? Relatable. You know? And so I guess tell us about that time where you was praying about your husband and the Lord rebuked you.

[Jada Edwards]

Listen. Because if you have not prayed for the Lord to fix your spouse, what are you doing? Okay, Stop trying to come out the gate. Godly, we come out the gate saying, get him. And I remember one of many times I was really trying to give something to the Lord and try to make it godly. Lord, I just want you to strengthen this marriage. You could do that by getting Conway together, you know? And it was a strange moment where I just felt this impression where the Lord was like, you really have a love issue. And I was like, yes, I want to be more loving. I'm trying to da da da.

[Jackie Perry]

Mh.

[Jada Edwards]

He's like, you right now. Even love what you want me to do in your marriage more than you're loving me, you're loving this desired result. Result more than you're loving me. Like you've got some things out of order. So that thing. Sometimes I think the Holy Spirit doesn't give you this final conclusion. He just gives you a thread. And I was like, what you mean? You know I love you. He's like, but it's time to take it up a notch. And so it really started a whole journey because I. I don't know that anybody, after spending time with me, would come to the conclusion that Jada is so loving. Yeah, I don't. Wise. Teacher, leader, decision maker. Sure. Yeah, that. And so then I wrestled with is this personality. Well, Lord, you know, I'm not like that. He's like, yeah, but love is not personality driven. It's not even acts of kindness.

[Jackie Perry]

It's.

[Jada Edwards]

This is deeper. It's identity. It's. It's calling. And that idea of loving the Lord your God with your heart, soul, mind and strength, I like that Mark adds strength and loving your neighbor, coupled with Jesus saying, they literally will know you are my possession because of how you love things I've known my whole life. But then he started replacing that. He said, not because of how well you teach, not because of who comes to Bible study, not because of the wisdom you dropped. When somebody. He was like, it's the love. Because if they will know this, something illogical that doesn't make sense with the way the world does it, that's how they will know you belong to me. And so that base level understanding that this is my identifying mark as a Christian, not my accomplishments and what I achieve and what love.

I was low key, sad, because I was like, but what about. He's like, that's cool. Yeah, but it's love. Because back to First Corinthians 13, he was like, even. Even the Bible studies and the teaching and the conversation and the counseling, those are clanging symbols. What I love, he said, and they're good things. Because the gifts Paul was talking about were good gifts from the Spirit. He's like, but they. Not those. Those things are supposed to be pointers to this bigger thing. They're not the main thing. And so that.

[Jackie Perry]

To say the least.

[Jada Edwards]

Was very disruptive for me.

[Preston Perry]

That's interesting. I think what I hear you saying is, you know, a lot of times people want to ask the Lord to do things for us, but a lot of times it is contingent on the love that we have. Like, for me, when I first got Married, I think it was my second year, I said the same prayer that you said. I was like, lord.

[Jada Edwards]

You safe.

[Preston Perry]

I said, you gotta fix this woman. For sure he does. And that's because, you know, the first two years of our marriage was really, really hard. And the second year I kind of felt like the Lord was like, yeah, you are more like a Pharisee to Jackie than Jesus. You, you're mad when she doesn't want to talk, when you, you want her to talk or whatever. But the truth is, you're really not loving her. Right. And I realized when I started loving her, right. A lot of the things that I want naturally came out. And so I guess my question to you is, when you feel like the Lord kind of checked you, did you start seeing your love as your love increase, those things start to naturally, you know, make your husband respond better, make your husband, you know, be the man that you like. What did your love and you loving better do for your marriage?

[Jackie Perry]

Yes.

[Jada Edwards]

Yes to that question. It invoked a different response because.

And I do get to this in the book, I like understanding people and that's the curiosity part of it and learning. But there was a re anchoring that I needed even after 20 something years in marriage and many, many decades walking with the Lord. And that was, do I really understand how God has loved me if I rush to interact differently? And I have not first internalized, really internalized how God has loved me, because that probably took a while and I was a little disappointed that I really did not understand how he had loved me. Because he. It's. There's this generic love and then there's this specific love that God has for you that, that fills all of these gaps. And so I can go try to be more gracious to a person. I'm not naturally a grace oriented person. I'mma get it together, suck it up, you'll be all right. Sin no more, you know, because that's how I like to learn.

[Jackie Perry]

Yeah.

[Jada Edwards]

And that in my mind was always like, well, God, this is how you teach me. And then, for example, in this journey, he was like, that's not the only way I teach you. You may resonate with that because he said, but think of the times you've been uncomfortable when I didn't punish you and you deserved it. That discomfort when I continued to bless and you really weren't qualified. Like those moments that were not natural to me is what needed to show up in relationships. But it.

You just can't start to be more of the thing until you realize this is what God has given you. Because then you need to be more of a pass through than the source. I can't be the originator of the grace. I have to be like, oh, this is how I've received it. And then here you go.

[Jackie Perry]

What I love.

[Preston Perry]

Why you make that face back?

[Jackie Perry]

Because 17 things popped in my head. I won't. I'll say two.

[Sponsor Representative]

Finding something for your kids to watch.

[Preston Perry]

That line up with what you believe can be hard nowadays.

[Sponsor Representative]

You want to find something fun, something that they can enjoy without all the crazy stuff. And that's where Menno comes in.

[Jackie Perry]

Menno makes it simple for families to grow in faith together. It's also the number one source of Christian content for kids this Christmas and every other day too. We are talking about favorites like Laugh and Grow Bible, Young David, the Dead Sea Squirrels, God's Greenhouse, veggietales, and so much more. Every show, every devotional is in fact designed to fill your kids minds with what matters, which is Jesus. And here's the best part. Ain't no commercials, no distractions, no craziness. Just truth and creativity. So we personally, the Perrys, are excited about Minnow's Laugh and Grow Bible for Kids Christmas special. It is helping keep the kids focused on the most important part of Christmas, which is who?

[Sponsor Representative]

Jesus.

[Jackie Perry]

All right.

[Sponsor Representative]

I'm personally looking forward to Minnow's Christmas special to see what kind of conversations is going to cultivate between me and my kids, the questions that they might have and just the family experience you're going to have during this holiday season.

[Jackie Perry]

So help kids experience Jesus this Christmas with the Minnow Laugh and Grow Bible Christmas special. Visit gomenow.com to start your free trial today. Plus you can use the Code Perry to get your first month free. This is a web only exclusive offer, so make sure to sign up on the gomenow.com website with the code PERRY to get your first month free.

I think what I love about something you said is that it took time.

Because I think naturally we all want to be sanctified very quickly. It can be really uncomfortable to feel broken for prolonged periods. I think even the way I'm built, it's like I want to get it right now and not get it. I want to get it right now.

[Jada Edwards]

Let's get to it.

[Jackie Perry]

Yeah, so it's like it can feel disheartening to feel like the pace of my growth is is just not as quick. But it also is encouraging to say that like, oh no, if you don't love greatly after the revelation you got the revelation on Monday, and you want to be Apostle John on Thursday. Like, maybe you're not doing it wrong. You're just a part of the process. Like, that's the process. But with that said, I think even as we process trying to take note of God loving us and all this stuff, I feel like that can feel like something we acknowledge mentally. But what does it actually look like to experience or appropriate the fact that God loves me? You get what I'm saying? Like, we sing the songs like he loves me, and it's just like, how do I get that here?

[Jada Edwards]

What.

[Jackie Perry]

What is. I know the Holy Spirit produces it, but tell. Tell us, because we're. We have a love problem, Jada. We do.

[Jada Edwards]

And that's why, you know, I do. When I say this general universal love. God so loved the world. That's huge. That plays a part. But then there's God so love Jada. God so love Jackie. God so love Preston. That for me, is where I needed to dig in. Because the theological truth of God loving the world and sending his Son and all the things, that is not hard for me to wrestle with. But he had to unpack specifics for me. This is how I have loved you.

[Jackie Perry]

That's good.

[Jada Edwards]

And sometimes it's. It's kind of this spirit of David, like he's bringing things back to your remembrance. Do you remember this thing that should have significantly altered you as a child? Remember that? I allowed it, but also I covered you in it. I have loved you through that. Remember that. Remember when you betrayed? Because we love talking about when we've been betrayed. Remember when you were the betrayer? Remember when you disappointed, when you broke your word, when you changed? This is how I loved you. And so God will run you, your story. That's what he has to do. Because those are the things that you will not naturally think of when you think about, you know, how. How we love others. And so that was the process for me. He walked through things. Remember when you thought you weren't qualified for this? When you struggle with insecurity as a parent, when you, like Jada, I keep coming at you with love, and have you really embrace that? Or do you just because I'm. Again, grace is something I have to be intentional about. Have you really embraced that? Or do you just know it cognitively and you still living like, I haven't loved you. You know what I'm saying? Like, God can love you through an insecurity and put you in some spot that you know, you shouldn't have succeeded in you succeed in it. You know, it was the love and grace of God. But should the next thing come up, we often respond like, he didn't love us through the last time. Same insecurity. He's just like, when does my love like take effect?

[Preston Perry]

That's good.

[Jada Edwards]

And go past the moment. Why we starting back over every time? And so I realized that, you know, I keep score. And I was like, but Lord, I still messed up. He said, okay, but remember, we worked through that and it kept coming up and that was important because that's how I treat relationships. I was not able to let people build on growth and love. I was like, but still the start back over. He said, why you do that with me? We gotta fix that over here before you can fix it over there. So receiving God's love can be very much.

Asking him to specifically reveal in your story, whether it's in the past or in your day to day life, how he's loving you. Well, because you need the tangible, the tangible experiences and reminders because that is often the way he's gonna call you to love.

[Jackie Perry]

That's great.

[Preston Perry]

That's good. That's good.

[Jackie Perry]

I love that. That's good.

[Jada Edwards]

I saw what you did though.

[Preston Perry]

Yeah, that was, that was amazing. Because what I hear you essentially saying is that God has a covenantal love with his church, with his people. Right? And one of the things that I used to always have to do as an evangelist when I was talking to unbelievers was if God is love, why do I have to do this? And it's like, no, he doesn't have a covenantal love with you. Like you don't belong to him. And so one of the things I've always had to do in my Christian walk is just remind myself that a covenant is a binding agreement. God is committ, committed to loving me through the person of his Son, Jesus Christ. And I think sometimes, just like, you know, people who struggling in their faith, like we just struggle with the idea that no God is committed to loving us regardless of what we do, you know, And I've often struggled with that and that was ministering to me because sometimes I just forget that he's, he's. He's married to his church and I'm a part of his church.

[Jada Edwards]

Yes. And it, it can be left in the worship lyrics and be left in the sermon and not taken into your heart to live out every day. Like maybe there was some source of shame that you struggled with God's love. Healed, redeemed, restored, all these things. But how often do we still have that thing in our head when God is like, but I've covered that. And so. But. But the shame now has become a bit of a comfort blanket, because now I'm just used to carrying that. But it also, unfortunately, gives us, I don't know if permission or maybe an inclination to keep the same score with other people.

[Jackie Perry]

Right.

[Jada Edwards]

I still carry my shame a little bit. So remember that time you hurt my feelings? I'm gonna carry that for you. I got you. I mean, it's just what happens. Cause whatever you.

[Jackie Perry]

Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

[Preston Perry]

I had a question, too.

[Jackie Perry]

Hold on.

[Jada Edwards]

No, hold on.

[Jackie Perry]

I don't think y' all heard what you. I heard what you said, but I want you to say it again. You're about shame. And you carry your own shame, which then translates to you expecting other people to carry theirs.

[Jada Edwards]

Say that one more time. Yes, because this is how I treat myself. So this is how I'm gonna treat you. I still carry my shame, and the Lord has forgiven me about it. I ran around, lift my hands, got saved. However, it's so intrinsic to my identity, I still keep it. So that means when you have hurt me and offended me, I'm gonna make sure that a little bit, you still reminded that I stay with you, even.

[Preston Perry]

Though that's what you do to yourself.

[Jada Edwards]

Because I remind myself. I guilt myself in the fact. Why does God still love me? Why does God. Because the next wrong thing that happens, you're like, it's because of this. He says, see, every time you connect something I'm doing with something I've forgiven, then that means you didn't believe the forgiveness and the love over there.

[Jackie Perry]

Get out of my house. Go.

[Jada Edwards]

That's what we do. We keep pulling it up. So he's like, it's not really gone. Then. Wow. But then that becomes the lens for which we function with other people.

[Preston Perry]

So what you're essentially saying, it's kind of hard to give grace to people if you don't give grace to yourself.

[Jackie Perry]

She eat me up. You can't do it.

[Jada Edwards]

How? Because.

[Jackie Perry]

Wow. Love.

[Jada Edwards]

Love is God.

[Jackie Perry]

Right?

[Jada Edwards]

It's his nature, it's his attribute. He's the source. I cannot originate. I'm having a hard time getting the pass through.

[Jackie Perry]

Right. Originated.

[Jada Edwards]

So if I am dealing with my own shame and guilt because I don't fully believe that God has redeemed or restored or forgiven or whatever, there's no way I can just keep mine to myself. And you got a clean slate that don't even make sense. It's not even logical sense. So then people are like, what's wrong with you? And you like, I don't know. You sent me a crazy text in 2018, and I don't know really what to do with it. We still hanging out, but in the back of my mind, I'm like, how could you ever. Like, I'm still thinking about that.

[Jackie Perry]

I know you got a question. I got. No, you can go.

[Preston Perry]

You can go ahead. Cause I want us to stay here. But my question, I think, yeah, it could be later on. But. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jackie Perry]

Because I say this would. Yeah, I. I very much. The Lord showed me maybe a year or so ago, and it'd be crazy where it's like, this stuff has been in my heart and you just waited to tell me, I guess when you thought I could handle it. And he. It was like the Lord was like, you, you. You hold on to offense. Like, you, You're a. You can be a really bitter person. And I never felt like I was a bitter person because to me, you do something you just did to me. So it's kind of like. But it's like that's, that's actually the problem.

[Jada Edwards]

Is that cut you off.

[Jackie Perry]

Yeah, it's just like, oh, man. Like, I just move with an all bet in my life where it's like.

[Preston Perry]

All that I got you cool.

[Jackie Perry]

Like, if that's how we move and that's how we move it. And it's like. It's like I take a note. So if you did something that I thought was crazy or kind of bogus, if you did something that was offensive, I put it in my pocket and in my mind, because I don't feel angry. I think that means I'm not offended. But it's like, you don't feel angry because you have a struggle feeling anything. But you are angry. You understand what I'm saying? But I think a lot of us do that.

[Preston Perry]

Yes.

[Jackie Perry]

How do you.

How do you. How do you do what's right? How do you.

[Jada Edwards]

So you gotta go back to this question. At the risk of this turned into therapy.

You gotta ask yourself, do I believe God has put something I've done in his pocket? Do I believe there's things in my life that I've done that I know I'm forgiven? I know theologically. But he holding on to the stuff still come up. And I'm like, that's probably. Cause in 97, you know, like. Because when we start connecting those things, we're missing the power of God rewriting our story because typically that is a projection or that is the evidence of some struggle we have with the Lord. Like, there's something you haven't fully forgiven yourself for. Or every time something good happens, you're like, I can't believe this happened. And I did this and got like, we're still connecting it to something. And that becomes a lens through which we see relationship. Because if you feel fully forgiven for everything and you've processed the many offenses toward God, that begins to inform what you can tolerate with other people. That's good because he don't cut us off. He don't just pretend we didn't exist. Like, he's still engaging. We sleep in the garden. He like.

Want to try again?

[Jackie Perry]

Oh, you know what?

[Jada Edwards]

You want to leave my church? You want to feel asleep on me when I was in my work? You know, like, he always re engaging. He's never kind of putting it to the side. Like, I'm gonna let you have a good day today. But I didn't forget, you know, we bring our own stuff up. It's not God. I mean, for learning, yes, but he's not like, you need to be grateful because you remember what you did when you were seven. So there's usually some tie to where I have not fully accepted, like the ridiculous grace of God because it really doesn't make sense. And we need things to make sense. Which means that his grace in our mind has to have a limit or has to have some logic tied to it. And then it starts showing up in how we deal with others. It's just, it's just a hard thing to process. We don't even process it for ourselves. So let alone somebody.

[Jackie Perry]

Between rising prices and budgets, it's easy to assume anything extra, such as life insurance, that it might just be a little too expensive. But here's the thing. 72% of Americans think that life insurance costs more than it really does. With policy genius, real users have gotten 20 year $2 million policies for just $53 a month.

[Sponsor Representative]

Giving your loved ones a safety net if something happens to you is the move. Because a lot of us have had family members who've left us nothing. And we know how that feels. And so setting your family up for financial success in the future is big for the next generation.

[Jackie Perry]

Policygenius is the country's leading online insurance marketplace with thousands of five star reviews on go and trustpilot from customers who found the best policy for their needs.

[Sponsor Representative]

Yeah, there was a time where I didn't know where to start. With life insurance, I didn't know who to call. I didn't know what was the best company to go to. I didn't even know, like, how old I was supposed to be when I first started to think about, you know, life insurance. And so I think having a guide of what we think about now is cool. And I'm glad that policygenius kind of gives us a guide to start having these conversations.

[Jackie Perry]

Secure your family's future with Policygenius. Head to policygenius.com perry to compare life insurance quotes from top companies and see how much you can save. That's policygenius.com perry.

[Preston Perry]

Speaking of process and therapy, one of the things I learned in therapy is that we are all kind of products of our past experiences. And so I think a lot of times we go into our Christian walk being products of our experiences when we had when we were kids, you know, And I think for me, I noticed.

Lacks of grace that my father probably gave me or shame that my father invoked on me. And I kind of came into my relationship with God, projecting things onto God, what I experienced my whole life. Right. And so I. I guess my question is, you know, how should we examine our past and say, how is our past showing up in the present of how we receive God's love? Do we believe wrong things about God because of what we experienced our whole life? The way our mom loved us, father loved us, et cetera. And so how would you examine that?

[Jada Edwards]

That's such a great question. I actually dedicate a chunk of in the first part of the book to parent wounds, because particularly fathers. Mothers can create a wound, but they are not the first. They're not a type that points us to the father the way our earthly fathers were designed to.

Absent father, abusive father, highly achieving father. It didn't matter if he was human. He was imperfect, right?

[Jackie Perry]

For sure.

[Jada Edwards]

Was he of the humankind? There's a gap. He could love Jesus. Have y' all in church? It doesn't matter. There's a gap. And so taking time to figure out the impact of that gap can. Can be pivotal. Because that's. I mean, my dad, who is amazing, he's reading the book. He called me talking about, do I. I owe you an apology.

[Jackie Perry]

He's so humble.

[Jada Edwards]

He is so sweet. He's gotten older. When we were younger, I be telling my kids, I don't know who this papa is. Cause that wasn't that daddy, right? But no, we were talking about it and I just said, no, you agree? You did best with what you know, had us in ch. Love God. But. But he was an achiever, which spoke to me as an achiever. Like, we don't get bees in this house. We win first. Like, so that. That translated to achievement. Is love when you killing it. Yes. Everybody's in a good mood. You know what you get on their paper? What. What'd you get to track me? What place you come in? Like. And it wasn't that I didn't feel. I didn't feel unloved when I didn't get first place, but I felt I was like, it's cool being the best, you know? And it spoke to me anyway as well, my wiring. So then that shows up in my relationship with God, because now I feel like God is more proud of me when I teach well than he is. If I feel like that message didn't go well. And he's like, but you didn't ask me what I was trying to achieve through the message. You thinking you killing it. And when you do, that's probably when you wasn't killing it, you know, Or. I'm glad. I think feel he's proud of me when I keep showing up and I keep serving and I started this thing and look what I'm doing through the church or I counsel somebody today or whatever. And he's like, okay, but also, you were snappy with your kid. So it's a. It's a deconstructing of, like, here's what I thought love was and projecting that on how. How I interact with God. Because at the risk of being repetitive, it's going to show up in my relationships. But it's a big deal. Fathers create a gap whether they intend to or not.

[Jackie Perry]

Yeah.

[Jada Edwards]

And the depth of that gap and the specificity of that gap, all of that has to be given to the Lord.

[Preston Perry]

Yeah.

[Jada Edwards]

When David says at the end of Psalm 139, he spends the whole psalm making the case that he cannot escape God's presence. You search me. You know me when I sit down, when I rise up, where can I go?

[Jackie Perry]

You know?

[Jada Edwards]

Free feeling, wonderfully made. Every women's conference thing. But he gets to the end of that Psalm and he says, search me. Like, logically, it doesn't make sense. He's already made the case that God doesn't need to search him. God knows everything. But he's saying, search me and show me. You know me better than I know me. Search me and show me myself. Because God, there's some things that are in me and that are. That are true about me, that I'M not even aware of. So that work is real. That is not. Counseling and therapy didn't make that up. That's been the truth. Where God is like, you need to see yourself. That's good. And in his grace, he will show you what you can handle about yourself over time.

[Preston Perry]

That's good.

[Jada Edwards]

Praise the Lord. Yeah, but you need it. It's an important, important work. Because I'm going to say this last thing. When you receive a sermon, a good message, a good truth, a solid truth does not hit every person the same way. Because if I'm still angry about my father, that truth about being generous or kind or whatever is gonna hit somebody differently than the person who has a good relationship with their father. So if you just take a solid truth and you don't let it do a specific work in you, like, what does that mean for me? This is the Bible. But in light of my story, how does that need to show up? Then you'll just be walking around knowing a bunch of scripture and no transformation because you have not let it penetrate into your story.

[Preston Perry]

That's good.

[Jada Edwards]

That truth that that pastor's trying to teach you, or somebody's trying to. They're trying to cast this net over a broad. The believer has to say, okay, that's true. How is it true for me? And that's when God is like, okay, let's get into your story. Why this might be hard for you and not hard for your friend.

[Preston Perry]

That's the beauty of the word, because it's alive. It can speak to. It's supposed to be nine different things in one building, you know?

[Jada Edwards]

Absolutely. But you have to do that work. You have to be responsible and aware enough that here's the truth. Lord, search me.

[Jackie Perry]

That's good.

[Jada Edwards]

What does this mean for me? Otherwise you'll be like, that was a good word.

[Jackie Perry]

That's good.

[Preston Perry]

That's good.

[Jada Edwards]

Good word did not get past.

[Jackie Perry]

You know, it didn't distill itself.

[Jada Edwards]

It didn't do anything. Right.

[Jackie Perry]

It seems like it would be unnecessary. But I also think that speaks to the reality of the situation, which is in having a conversation about love. I think we actually needed to define it, because even as we talk about love, people have their own framework about what that is. And in the book, you talk about how some people believe that love is romantic or love that is attached to a feeling. Define for us love biblically. And then maybe some of you should just rewind from the beginning and then think about our conversation about love with that definition in mind. Okay?

[Jada Edwards]

So the essence of agape, which is, I'm gonna stay there. Because that's the New Testament call. There's different kind of loves expressed in the Old Testament, but the New Testament call for the believer that we love God is this truth of agape that means a divine benevolence that God has given us a divine charity. It means that the person who is loving determines the value of the one they love, not the other way around. You don't determine how I love you. I determine how I love you. It is divine benevolence. So it's not earned charity. It's like, I'm just deciding this is the value that I assign you. So it is. And when I charity. And a lot of the older versions of the older translations use charity for love. And I used to not get it. I'm like, that's like giving somebody, the homeless man on the corner. And God's like, no, because that's giving. That's bestowing it's blessing. And that is really the mark of agape love. It's not just kindness or do you not get on my nerves? Like, am I able to bestow blessing on you? Because that's what God did for us. He was like, you were enemies and I gave you a good gift, if you my son. So this idea of divine charity and benevolence that the beholder assigns the value, that's huge. And lastly, I would say one of the other big defining things about agape is that it's an initiating love. It makes the first move. So all these. Right. That's what everybody's spirit, everybody's soul.

It'S an initiating love.

[Jackie Perry]

God so loved the world, that that's not to cut you. I want you to continue. I just want to say we feel that way because that's scary, that's vulnerable, and that's risky. To be the initiator of love. Rather than responding to what someone. How somebody's loved you.

[Jada Edwards]

Absolutely. Because we keep score.

[Jackie Perry]

Yes.

[Jada Edwards]

Because even when we do initiate, we. Like I said I was sorry first five times. When is it they turn, Lord?

[Jackie Perry]

Yeah.

[Jada Edwards]

Be like, never.

[Jackie Perry]

Wow.

[Preston Perry]

Yeah.

[Jada Edwards]

Never, Lord. Yeah. Initiating love is hard. It is initiating love and assigning and saying that I have the. Through the power of the Holy Spirit, I'm called to assign a value to you that you cannot change. That nothing you do can change this value. Now, how I relate to you and engage is different than love. That's this. Because if you're saying God so loved the world, that means that there is a commonality between the Believer and the unbeliever of God's love. He don't love you more because you got saved. Because Jesus died before you said yes to Jesus. Jesus died in case you, you thought you might want to say yes to Jesus. That's the kind of love God does. I'm gonna do mine first, then I'm gonna let y' all decide if y' all want to receive this. Yeah, like it'll just mess you up. So that idea of love, when we take it out of acts of kindness or personality or time spent, even when you get to this fundamental, this is a benevolence and a charity and, and the idea of always assigning value to a person, even if they have not earned that value.

And asking God, how do I have an initiating love toward that person? Those are the hard questions you're wrestling with. If you're asking, do I love the way God does?

[Jackie Perry]

I think why that's such a valuable definition and perspective is because again, we usually define love on our own terms rather than scripturally, even more specifically, like through Christ, the gospel. And I remember reflecting on even how much movies and music and the Disney movies and how all of that oriented love in a way for me. And I think a big part of what it does is one you see love as a self centered kind of thing. So I'm a love you if you love me back because it seems stupid to do it any other way. But it also, I think culturally we think of love primarily as a feeling. You know, I love you because I feel lovely, or I love you because I feel compassionate. But it's like when you get to the rooter to the Tudor in deciphering discipleship, like in following Christ, you realize so many of his commands to love require decision rather than affection. Absolutely speak to that.

[Sponsor Representative]

A couple years ago, the Lord started to put it on my heart to start an online community group for men. Because just going out doing events, one of the things that I saw the most is just men are lonely. We need community. We need to know that, you know, not only do God care, but there's people out there, men out there, other men, who will love you, who cares. And so that's the reason why I'm starting an online community group called the Sons of Man, where we would talk about real issues, where we can have a real community, you know, where we can have a safe place to come and, and just be men, vent. But also one of the main reasons why I started, you know, Sons of Man is because I want us to see how Jesus's humanity relates to our. Our manhood. Right? God became man.

[Preston Perry]

Man.

[Sponsor Representative]

And so not only do I see you, but most of all, God sees you. And so in this community, we're going to be consistently reminded how we're seen by a holy and righteous God, how we're loved by holy and righteous God, and how we're sons by holy and righteous God. What you'll expect from this community group is realness. I mean, I'm always real on every platform that you see me on, but y' all gonna see a part of Preston that y' all don't see. Noel's. We're gonna have real, intimate, honest, transparent conversations that's only in house. So social media, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, they not gonna get this. Y' all gonna get this. Not only that, y' all gonna get exclusive, real FaceTime videos with me where, you know, you can ask me questions in real time, and I can just, you know, give you answers in real time, you know, and so, you know, pop up live events or whatever around the country where only my Patreon people will be able to come to. And so I think. I think ultimately what you will get is just exclusive access to me in a way that the other social media outlets don't have. But also you're gonna get real, honest, transparent conversation that's safe, but at the same time, fruitful and edifying. So, yeah, can't wait to see that.

[Jada Edwards]

Well, you know what? I. This is what I have come to realize over the years. If we gave marriage counseling to everybody, they would get it. Because marriage is when you realize love is what you do. Love is a decision. You're like, well, why y' all ain't telling us that? Yeah, there's no special love for married folks in the Bible. It's love. Like, it's a decision to keep loving your spouse. It's a decision to stay in their friendship. Like, but we don't start to consider redefining love until we. In some typically marriage where you're like, oh, the feeling has faded. What we do now? Oh, well, love is a decision. Why y' all didn't tell me that long time ago? Because we. If we treat friendship like that, or any relationship God is. God is bringing us into, it will change everything. It is very much decision. And it can feel that. Can feel sometimes disconnected or clinical. But you're like, man, if you have an emotional driver in there at all, think about your emotions, what you feel from moment to moment that the people in your life are subject to your Feelings like, today I wanna cook dinner. If I don't wanna feel like cooking dinner, wouldn't nobody eat. Cause once a week, every two weeks, when I felt like it. So it's just like. It's just not even logical. But it just feels so scary to avail ourselves to this kind of constant love. But I think that's because we've equated love with certain actions, certain behavior, certain access. And that's not what it is. I can have limited access for whatever reason. Maybe there needs to be a boundary. Whatever. That does not affect my love for you. That means if I hadn't talked to this person in two years because this person was hurtful, I have not. I don't feel like they're safe. Whatever. God can still say, hey, today I want you to pray for so and so. Cool.

[Jackie Perry]

Yeah.

[Jada Edwards]

God pray for. Because it's not that. Because I'm like, oh, I still value this person. If I found out they died or found out they got sick, sick. Still be heartbroken. Can we be best friends right now? We'll work. I don't know. But those are not the same. But if you keep equating love to feeling and expression and all those things, then you will not be able to love well with the person that you're not in constant relationship with.

[Preston Perry]

That's good.

[Jada Edwards]

You can forgive and not be best friends. You can love and still need boundaries. Like, love without condition is not love without wisdom.

[Preston Perry]

That's beautiful.

[Jada Edwards]

Like, you can have it.

[Preston Perry]

That's really good.

[Jada Edwards]

But we try. We take the whole thing off the table.

[Preston Perry]

I'm still.

[Jada Edwards]

That we take the whole thing. So what happens when God is saying, pray for this person?

[Jackie Perry]

Yeah.

[Jada Edwards]

What? Because at the end of the day, bigger than their offense is their condition of their soul. What if he's saying, hey, do you know how they doing with me? I need to care about that.

[Preston Perry]

Yeah, I love what you care about. I love what you're saying. Because it's really just the gospel.

[Jada Edwards]

It's the gospel.

[Preston Perry]

It's the gospel because I think when we think about loving other people, we have to think about other people. But at the same time, we shouldn't think about other people as it relates to us. Meaning, like everything we see in scripture about God's love is really not contingent on what we done. Like, even, like while we were yet sinners. Christ died for us right before we even gave our life to the lord. Right. Ephesians 2. 8 says, we're saved by grace through faith, for it is not of our works. Least any man can boast. And so it's not about good merit, it's not of our. Our efforts or whatever. God just chose. He decided to love us unconditionally. And I think as humans, that could just be a very hard concept.

[Jada Edwards]

It is.

[Preston Perry]

Like, it's hard to have this idea of, do I have to love somebody when they don't give anything back to me, or do I have to love somebody when they don't, you know, when they treat me wrong? Like, it's crazy for us as humans to think that, but that's the way God loves us.

[Jada Edwards]

But that goes back to the original point of the conversation, being able to receive God's love. Because I don't think some of us a little twisted, but I don't think most people are saying, I know God love me fully, I'mma love you partially. I don't think most people are consciously saying that they believe God loves them partially. So I'm just giving you what I think I got.

[Preston Perry]

Wow.

[Jada Edwards]

Sitting and receiving God's love. You can say I was dead in my trespassing saying it. Do you believe that? Do you really know what that means? That Jesus hung on a cross so that one day you might decide to believe it. He didn't say, the cross is yours if you say yes to me. Like, the cross was done. It was a done deal. So people might have the choice to say yes like that. That is so counterintuitive to everything we know. But I really, really believe that we have not internalized what it means to have been and enemies of God. And he was chasing us down. Because if you get it, when he tell you to send a text, it shouldn't lay you out. When he say, check on the person, say happy Birthday. Make sure they mama. All right? Whatever it is, give. Give them an extra. You give them extra. I know that's not what they earn, but just give them extra tip generously. Say hi to the stranger. Be patient with the cashier. See, like, those things would not send us the way they do if we were constantly thinking. I had no knowledge of God. He was chasing me down. Because we don't want to chase nobody down. No.

[Preston Perry]

Wow.

[Jada Edwards]

You just. I just think internalizing that love for God is a big deal. We love to run to the action. I want to be nicer.

[Jackie Perry]

How do. How would you counsel those who.

I've met people in my life who.

Think they are really loving.

[Jada Edwards]

And that was funny.

[Jackie Perry]

Cause you have those. I'm of the sort where it's like, no, I'm actually Not loving like I just I am. Cause I have the Holy Spirit. But I have to really.

[Sponsor Representative]

I'm about to tell on my wife.

[Preston Perry]

She's a perfectionist and so she wants to do everything perfectly. And so early. I almost put on blast earlier she was just like ah throughout the years, yada yada. But one thing that I think perfectionist just don't realize is how much they've grown even in their love. And so I have to consistently remind her, Jackie, you're actually grown so much but she wants to do everything perfectly. And your love ain't gonna look like the rap skills at times. It's just not.

It's just not. But you ain't where you were five years. You ain't where you is five years ago. So stop trying to.

[Jackie Perry]

I love languages. Stop trying. And that's not one of them.

[Preston Perry]

None up but stop trying to perfect. You know, sanctification. You know she. She's grown.

[Jackie Perry]

I appreciate that. Love you. What I was going to say is I am aware, I'm self aware of how I'm. My love can be inconsistent and flawed. But I've met people in my life who are unaware of that and you. But they're. It usually is the temperament of people who are gifted with hospitality.

[Jada Edwards]

Yeah, yeah. They have a kindness about them or something.

[Jackie Perry]

Yeah they're nice and they will go above and bey and do all the things. But it's like when you get up close to them it's like I don't think you're as loving as you think.

[Jada Edwards]

You are self serving.

[Jackie Perry]

So how do you help people also delineate between just because you did all the things at the church, just because you took the trash out, you know, you made sure that you stayed last. You did all this stuff. Was it love though? How do you help people determine that?

[Jada Edwards]

I try to ask people is the behavior separate from the response from people? If no one says thank you, if no one gives you credit, if the church hurt your feelings, are you still taking out the trash because you feel called to serve that way? Are you still letting people come over if no one says oh she always let us come, what happens when the recognition goes away or for the person that it's hard to do that for? Because typically we can do that for people that we're in good standing with. But what happens when that one person that kind of rubbed you wrong, they still in the group, they still get to come over. You still make sure they got a place setting and you know they favorite food like it's separating it from any kind of response or recognition. If it doesn't feel sacrificial and hard, it probably is self serving. And good things can still serve self. Like I need to be needed. I need to be at all the volunteer meetings. Because that's how everybody what they gonna do without me. It's when you feel like you really have nothing to give. You're like, I'm having a bad day. But before I could tell my friend I'm having a bad day, she texts me about her bad day. And God's like, okay, you go first girl. Listen, so sorry. And I really wanna say my day. And you're like, we're getting. But right now you say, I hear you. Tell me about what happened. Can I hold my bad day for a minute? Because I need to love her. Well, so it's those things that are often hard that's good. They don't feel good. Honestly, I could buy my husband a great gift that I think is amazing. And typically it's because it's something I like. Right. Because the stuff he like, I be like, that's all you want to do. We don't want to do love, you know, because we still want to love the way we where we can be acknowledged. And there's something reciprocal. I'm getting back from that. But man, when God is like, you know what he wants? He wants you to, he want a new set of notepads. Cause he still hand write half his messages. And I was like, notepad Office Depot. We can't do a little razzle down. Yeah. But then you come home and he like, you got my notepads. Okay. The grand gesture wasn't gonna get that, but I didn't get anything from that. You see what I'm saying? So when you're, when you are, are able to follow God's obedience to serve and honor and value others and there's no connection to what makes you feel good, what you want to put on your resume. You starting to scratch the surface.

[Preston Perry]

I think that might be really helpful. I'm sorry, you want to go say something babe? Okay, go, go.

[Jackie Perry]

Because I think all of us because of sin are always doing things to fill up our cup. Yes. You know, like it's like we exist.

[Jada Edwards]

Even to other people.

[Jackie Perry]

Yes. We exist with this perpetual thirst. And it's like whether I'm the person who is overly kind and it's self serving it, the acknowledgement is filling up my cup. Whether I'm the person who isn't kind because I am protecting myself. It's filling my cup. And it's like. I think that's why we always have to be reminded of what Jesus said to the woman at the well. It's like, I have water to drink that you know, not of. And it's like that fullness in him, I think is really the thing that we're lacking. But if we were full in him, we could exist in the world without needing people in a way that's inordinate. Does that make sense? It's like, I can't love you because I'm. It's back to what you're saying. I can't love you if I'm not receiving his love first. That's good.

[Jada Edwards]

And that idea of fullness, that's the word right there. Because it's like, if I'm full, like constantly aware, trying to stay in this fullness of God's love, how do I have room for offense? I only have room for that if I'm not full. You see what I'm saying? If a fence is a pebble and I'm a jar, if my water's to the top where the fence gonna. It's gonna roll out the top. When I. When I have room for that, I'm not full with the Lord. So that means I can hold on to what you say. You didn't invite me, you hurt my feelings or whatever. Even real can be. I mean, real traumatic things can be true and not something that's in me. I can be full and those things can be true. I can be working through it and it not be something that I'm carrying all the time that now is affecting the way I love others.

[Preston Perry]

That's good.

[Jada Edwards]

That fullness is hard, though.

[Preston Perry]

Yeah, that's good.

[Jada Edwards]

The fullness is hard. Cause the truth is, it sounds good in theory, but do I really wanna be full? I kind of like having a little bit of beef, you know, it's just comfortable. Do I wanna be.

[Preston Perry]

Somebody popped in. You said that.

[Jada Edwards]

Well, because guess what somebody gonna say. Why you let them? Let me tell you something. The amount of phrases we have that speak to not being taken advantage of, say something about us as humanity. Don't take my kindness for weakness. Fool me once. But, like, that's just right. Right that, like we have a bent to say, you're not about to get over on me.

[Jackie Perry]

Yeah.

[Jada Edwards]

And God is saying that's because you're not full. Because if you were full, you wouldn't see it as somebody getting over on you. You would see it as their brokenness. They being broken you got exp. Carry on.

[Preston Perry]

Yes, but to go back to Jackie's original question, like, because. Because I love. I love your response, because I think what you're essentially saying is that real love is contingent on obedience and sacrifice, not how people perceive us. Now we're rewarded. And all the things. I remember when I first became a Christian, I was a little rough around the edges. I'm still a little rough around the edges. Right. But I was.

[Jackie Perry]

But your beard ain't.

[Preston Perry]

Ha.

[Jada Edwards]

Come on, lions.

[Jackie Perry]

And we rejoice. But one of the things.

[Preston Perry]

Things. No, one of the. Seriously. And this. This is one of the things that she get on my nerves.

One of the things that frustrated me was how often I felt like the church did not recognize my sacrifice.

Or my. My. My love is love. Because I kind of felt like the church in general, especially the church that I got saved in, had a very shallow view of what love was. So love looked like the person that smiled every single day, and it didn'. Like Preston, who just broke all his Tupac CDs or had to come in this church and sit and be uncomfortable every Sunday with people judging me just so I can be obedient and be in community. Right. And so, you know, speak to the person who feels like. I feel like I am giving that sacrificial, you know, obedience type of love, but it's not recognized because all of this fake love, low key is being recognized.

[Jackie Perry]

Can I add to that?

[Preston Perry]

Yes.

[Jackie Perry]

I think. Think that is a common experience of husbands, of wives, of parents, of ministry leaders, where you do get weary with bearing up under the weight of loving your neighbor. So I just wanted to add that to it.

[Jada Edwards]

Yeah, that. That's a really good question. I. I think that when I'm feeling weak or overwhelmed or unseen or whatever the case may be, I have to pause and ask God to look in my heart. David say, search me. What's driving this? Why am I doing this? Is this what you've asked me to do, Lord? Or have I decided that this is how love and service are going to look?

What is the way you're leading me in this space? Because if it's serving and showing up at church all the time, why am I waiting on acknowledgement or a leader to be like, oh, I see you? You know, because honestly, I'm like, man, if my heart is janky, stay home. Be with the Lord. Like you sitting up in there, taking up a seat is nine points in heaven. Like, be with the Lord. But there has to be a freedom that says, I know I'M called to this assignment. This is how God wants me to serve this church. So when people forget and they didn't put your name on the thing or they still saying stuff, you're like, okay, I'm gonna deal with that. That's separate from what I'm doing though, because this is driven by God's direction.

So what's driving it? Because even with my kids, I have a default way of parenting. I'm trying to be better, you know, conscious parent. I'm like, oh, Jesus, I'm put you on the porch, okay, buy one, get one. Everybody gonna get a sticker. Because today is a day. And it's. I still have a default way of doing it. And I'm like, well, this, this is how I function. So God, you see, I'm showing up, I'm cooking dinner. I'm not being like, some of these other mamas look at me, we having devotion, like, okay, but when I was in an argument with my 8 year old. Cause that don't even make sense that we in this level of conversation and she did not. We were. She was in a place. She's very strong, Will. Cleaning up this room, getting this room together. And oh my gosh, I could feel the emotions ratcheting. My default is, you know what, you know how much I've done for you, how much I do for you. At the end of the day, if we're losing this, I'm going to go authority on you. Do it, just do it right. And that's okay for parents sometimes. However, that was a moment I was so trying to control what I said to her because I'm trying, I really am trying to not shame her for her curiosity and not translate all of that as disobedience, as rebellion. I'm trying to really be like. Trying to really be like.

[Jackie Perry]

It's hard.

[Jada Edwards]

So I went and sat in the, the car and I was like, lord, you got to watch my tongue. What do I do? And this man, yeah, the Lord, the God man.

[Jackie Perry]

Huh?

[Jada Edwards]

This man going to say, go clean up her room. O, I like who you talk to me. I. I'm the mama. She's supposed to clean up her room.

[Jackie Perry]

That's her responsibility.

[Jada Edwards]

So I go upstairs.

She lay on bed crying. Crying? No, she was laying in bed mad. She wouldn't even cry. Just quiet. I just started cleaning up her room. All of a sudden I hear crying. I turn around, what's wrong? I can't believe that I'm the one that's supposed to do it. And you cleaned up My room, this whole thing, my 8 year old. And the Lord was like, this is what I do for you. I ask things of you. And when you're at the end of yourself, I'm do it. We gonna try again, y'.

[Jackie Perry]

All.

[Jada Edwards]

Let me tell you something. That story has come up in my mind with my husband, with friends, with colleagues. Like he just says, just do it. I do it for you. Sometimes everything ain't a lesson, Jada. Just do it. Sometimes the bigger impact is the unexplained grace. Yeah, that's the bigger impact. Just do it. So those moments. Moment. I have cleaned up her room many times before, cuz I like a clean room. Yeah, but that's not why I was doing it then. Cuz I wanted her to do it. And he was like, just do it.

[Preston Perry]

That's good.

[Jada Edwards]

And shifted something.

[Jackie Perry]

I'mma buy you some Nikes.

Here. Some memorial.

[Jada Edwards]

Just do it.

[Jackie Perry]

Memorial stone.

[Preston Perry]

You going to buy her some Nikes.

[Jackie Perry]

Just do it.

[Preston Perry]

Oh, just do it.

[Jackie Perry]

It's all right.

You catch it tomorrow.

[Jada Edwards]

But. And y', all, she ate. And I can't tell you how many times she's brought that up.

[Jackie Perry]

Mom.

[Jada Edwards]

Okay, When I take my bath, look, I hung up my towel. And so even in those moments. Cause she's obeying. I have to not overly celebrate that she did what I asked. I'm like, give me a hug, girl. I said, you know, if you're tired on the floor, you still my favorite girl, you know, or whatever. And then I'm like, okay, now show me. But I had to be so intentional about not. We're not. Good. Cause you cleaned up the room, you know, but listen, that when you're showing up for stuff and you feel like this is not seen or you're always the one apologizing, you gotta ask, lord, why am I doing this?

[Preston Perry]

That's so encouraging because that's great.

[Jada Edwards]

Because.

[Preston Perry]

Because even I'm gonna clean my kid room today.

[Jada Edwards]

But I mean, you know, as led.

[Preston Perry]

But I think you answered the question. My question is so many different ways. But it's encouraging because I think what a lot of people can take away from that is if you feel like sometimes you're not seen, eventually real love is seen when it's modeled.

[Jada Edwards]

Absolutely.

[Preston Perry]

What you did was you modeled sacrifice. You modeled love for her. And her love was not contingent on her, you know, doing what you said at that moment. It was obedience to the Lord first, which translated to you doing an act of service for her. And she saw that and responded. And it's probably changed so much. And so like, yeah, if you out there and you feel like you're not seeing, just continue to model love. And people who God want to see it, they will see it.

[Jada Edwards]

Yeah. And ask yourself, why you doing it? Because honestly, I've cleaned up that room many times, but it was out of frustration. I'm tired of this room looking like this. I like a neat room. That's not why I did it that day.

[Preston Perry]

That's beautiful.

[Jackie Perry]

We are going to talk about forgiveness, but I think before we get there.

I just want to read something in light of even everything you just said, because I think it's important to remember who produces this. Like you said it. But I want us to be reminded is Galatians 5. 22 says, but the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self control. Against such things, there is no law. Because I think, I genuinely believe that we all have a bent towards works righteous. And so we hear, respond to the Lord and clean up the room. We hear, you know, send the text. We hear, say hi to the strangers. And we immediately start to figure out and plan how to do that in our own strength. When it's produced by the Spirit. So help someone know, like, if. Even if the Holy Spirit is bringing up things today on how you can love your neighbor better help them know how to lean into the spirit spirit and do the spirit's work in the spirit's power.

[Jada Edwards]

Pace, slow down. If you slow down. And I'm speaking to myself because I'm like, I'm trying to knock off a hundred things in a day, but I have to slow down and ask God, what do I do here? There are so many times where my natural response is not what he's asking me to do. And it's not that it's a spiritual sin. It's just not the most loving thing. Like, I literally will be texting somebody on my team. Did you get that? Did you send that thing? I'm still looking for the email. Da, da, da, da, da. And I was about to send a text. I remember this a couple years ago, this whole text. First of all, when you say you're gonna do something, do it and eat this whole thing, it's about to hit sin.

[Jackie Perry]

Any time somebody say, first of all, listen, it's not right.

[Jada Edwards]

I'm counting, okay? So I was about to hit sin, y'. All, this. The Lord was like, hold on, don't forget, you know, her mother just got diagnosed with cancer. When's the last time y' all talked So I looked at the text above the one I was about to send, and it was her saying, you know, thank you for praying. Da, da. He was like, ask how Mom's doing first. You can still send that.

[Jackie Perry]

Yeah.

[Jada Edwards]

Had to copy, paste, put it in a note.

[Jackie Perry]

Yes.

[Jada Edwards]

And I just texted her, hey, how is Mom? Phone rang. Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much for asking. This week has been hard that now, would it have been seeing to send her that reminder of the work she do? No. But it would not have been the most loving thing. And that would have landed on a person that was broken in the moment. That is not something. I don't care how long you walk with the Lord, you're not going to know that without the spirit. The spirit is like, don't forget what she just said to you. You see what I'm saying? So it's. There is something to be said about pace. And everything around us works against that to slow down and let the spirit say what he's trying to say. And you want to buy the person, you know, a diamond necklace and they really just want sandwiches. Like, you just. You're not asked. It's to slow down. God loves his people more than you ever can.

[Preston Perry]

Yeah, that's right.

[Jada Edwards]

And he just gives you specific things to do if you would slow down. How do I do this? Well, what do I do today, Lord? And I cannot tell you how many times. And I know the Lord's always been saying it, I just wasn't always listening. How many times? Times. And people will be like, I can't believe you remember that. And I tell them straight up, I didn't. I didn't. I was about to ask you. The Holy Spirit told me, so they can see for themselves he will do it.

[Jackie Perry]

And in. In the slowing down, you ain't just sitting there scrolling, you're praying. You're submitting yourself underneath his lordship in those moments.

[Jada Edwards]

And.

[Jackie Perry]

And that's why he's guiding. Because. And it takes a mindfulness. It's like you, you, you. You know your weakness. Weakness. And that's why you're praying. Right? But if you don't know your weakness, then you're not going to pause and pray. Because I experienced something even before where it's like I was going to do something for somebody that felt very sacrificial. But I also knew that a part of my heart wanted them to praise me for it or esteem me for it. But I knew. And I said, but I knew it also needed to be done. So I'm not like oh, I'm not going to do it because, you know, I'm prideful. It's like, no, I want to do this good work. But Lord, purify my intentions, like, help me do this with no expectation of any praise or anything in return. Help me do this because it's good to do and it honors you. And so it's like that pause, then helps you to come into situations empowered, where you're strengthened to do the thing that you actually cannot do.

[Sponsor Representative]

Yeah.

[Jada Edwards]

You know, it's like if you do it and they don't say anything, you're like, I'm good. I already got straight. I already got straight on that before.

[Jackie Perry]

I did it because it's giving. I took his yoke upon me.

[Preston Perry]

Yeah. But also What I hear, Ms. Jada in the slowing down is that we can properly discern every. Every situation, every relationship, that we can actually have more opportunities to walk in wisdom, to walk in love. Because, like, I teach this in evangelism all the time. Like when Jesus told the disciples, when he said, voluntus, it says, be wise as serpents but harmless as doves. He's essentially saying, go out and discern how each person needs to hear this truth. Right. And I think a lot of times when we just doing what we think is right, it can be out of good intentions. But if we're actually not being wise with every single relationship, it's actually not loving because everybody is going through different stuff, different trials. And so the way somebody might receive, like how you talked about the text is like, yo, like, it wasn't unloving, but the way. The way she would receive it would be. So like, slowing down just allows us to walk in wisdom in every situation. And a lot of times we need, like, our love needs wisdom to be effective.

[Jackie Perry]

Absolutely.

[Jada Edwards]

To Jackie's point, sometimes the act itself is not changed, but God's changing your heart about the thing that's good. So if it gets overlooked or nobody says it, or you come do the grand gesture and they tell you what you could have done better.

If your heart ain't right.

[Jackie Perry]

Yes.

[Sponsor Representative]

You want the first time.

[Preston Perry]

That's our 10 year old. Y' all be glad.

[Jada Edwards]

Because you know what I had to do to get it. You know what I'm saying? That's what you get. But the goal is. The goal isn't. Don't be unloving.

[Jackie Perry]

Yes.

[Jada Edwards]

The goal is love divinely. You can do things that are not unloving, but they are also not divine love. They're not, you know, and it's I cannot tell you how small and minuscule the Holy Spirit gets, but it translates to people differently. I'm working with a team a few months ago, I think I talked about that. This in the book. Had to be a year ago. Conference team. We run around, it's rehearsals and sound checks and everybody's running crazy. And in my mind, cuz I'm a little social person, I was like, oh, I can't wait. Conference is over. I'm going to take him to a nice lunch. We going to kick it. I'm going to appreciate all these women. Da, da, da. Spa days and lunch. And the Lord was like, go get them some sandwiches because they haven't eaten all day. I was like, I'm going to get somebody to do that. But also I'm about to play in this lut because that's what I like. He was like, go get the sandwiches. So I left, went and got the sandwiches, came back waiting on somebody to be like, sandwiches.

[Jackie Perry]

You know.

I don't know if anybody would say that.

[Jada Edwards]

Maybe if it's Jimmy Johnson. Nobody.

[Jackie Perry]

Okay.

[Jada Edwards]

But about an hour later, we still running around and people are flying through the groom. And they were like, one by one, who's this food for? I was like, it's for y'.

[Jackie Perry]

All.

[Jada Edwards]

Oh my God. Food and gone. That's it. There was no meeting who got the food. Ms. J, you got the food. Thank you so much. Oh, my God. Nothing. But the Lord was like, but that's kindness. Kindness is intentionally meeting a need. You putting the lunch together, that's great. That's not what they need right now. They're tired, they hung, and.

It was no big thank you. But them sandwiches were gone in 30 minutes because people were hungry. And so it's that kind of, of things. Things that will feel very insignificant where people will just be like, oh, I feel loved. And they don't know who he was. It doesn't matter. God was like, but I'm. You're my. You're my tool. You want to be used, right? I'm trying to use you. So people feel this love they can't explain.

[Jackie Perry]

That's good because it. I've always reflected on how Jesus's first miracle at the wedding, when he turned the water to wine, he just stood in the back while someone else was praised for his work. And I've just always been like, oh, I think that's what you want us to do. It's like they, they, they praising the, the, the, the host. So you brought out the best wine. And he Just in the back content that, you know, the disciples saw what he did, but the majority did not. But I also think I'm always, always having to remind myself, the Lord sees you and he will acknowledge you one day. You will be rewarded. We don't talk about rewards enough. We. You will be rewarded. That'. Caveat.

[Jada Edwards]

Yeah.

[Jackie Perry]

Before we end, we gotta touch on forgiveness. Okay. Cuz in the book you talk about what Jesus has said to Peter.

Peter over here. Like, hey man, you know, somebody knocked me up across the head. How many times I'm supposed to get these people?

[Preston Perry]

I'm Peter.

[Jada Edwards]

We awesome Peter.

[Jackie Perry]

We all are.

[Sponsor Representative]

Yeah.

[Preston Perry]

I'm a little, I'm a little. I'm Peter, Peter.

[Jackie Perry]

You, you.

[Preston Perry]

I be. I got a little buck in my system. Like, you hit me, I'm gone.

[Jackie Perry]

That's, that's why I like the chosen version of Peter. I was like that chosen version of Peter. Look, just about the passion. Peter was a little, he was a little hefty. He look like he eat a lot.

[Preston Perry]

Yeah.

[Jackie Perry]

The chosen beater is like, okay, you do push. You look like you would cut somebody.

[Jada Edwards]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He going to get with you.

[Jackie Perry]

Yeah. But it's like I, I could see humanly speaking, he like, now there has to be a cap on. How many times.

[Jada Edwards]

What's my.

[Jackie Perry]

I let somebody hit me. Now Jesus is over here like, turn out the cheek. 77 times 7, right.

[Jada Edwards]

And we out here like, I ain't got but two cheeks. So on the third time, you saying I'm good, right. I can do what I need to do.

[Jackie Perry]

My, my main question is.

Because I'm trying to think very broad. I think there's two scenarios. So take it however you want. You have the person who does need to. Because we all sin against each other. So it ain't even got to be super egregious. I think even in marriage in a 24 hour span, we might have maxed out on 77, depending on how high my standard is for you. But it' like, you get what I'm saying? Like, I think we think 77 times 7 is like, oh, they did something bad. It's like, no, like you got irritated because they didn't acknowledge you when you got in the room and now you're offended and you sin against. So I'm saying there are some times where we have to be forgiving continuously. And that does not mean that there needs to be a break or a breach in the relationship. And so how to navigate even the dynamic of continuing to just release people of whatever Offenses they have. But we also have those who might be an abusive or unhelpful, unhealthy relationship, who might assume that forgiving 77 times, times 7 or whatever means that you should be in close proximity to the offender. However, you can speak to both realities, I think would be wise.

[Jada Edwards]

So offense obviously can be on a spectrum. And there is one aspect of that as believers where we are trying to minimize what offends us. What offends us. Like, that's just lifelong marathon spiritual growth goals.

[Jackie Perry]

That's good.

[Jada Edwards]

I'm trying to be less offended by stuff because yet to meet people who wake up going, oh, I can't wait to go get food for myself and accidentally forget to get it for my husband and see what that, like, nobody's doing that. People just peopling. They just out here trying to be their best person and we're getting the byproduct of whatever they don't do well. And so it's just. It's so not about us. And so the, the quicker I can let that go, that. That kind of becomes what I call short term cycles. You know, you just like, okay, I get it. You need to acknowledge it. You don't suppress it. You need to acknowledge it. Cause it may be a teaching moment for you and the Lord. You just like, ooh, okay, move and keep moving. You know, so that's a thing that you can progressively grow in. But then there's. There's. There's definitive offensives that can happen with abuse or trauma or pain or things like that. That the process of releasing and healing are in essence the same, but the timing is probably different. And I don't want anybody to feel like they're less Christian if they don't release a person that's caused them a lot of pain immediately. Because that can take time. You should be able to do it immediately. There's a goal. But, man, God gives you grace because sometimes you got to mull it over in your mind that you're no longer expecting that apology and you're no longer expecting them to come explain it. And you no longer think they owe you. And you don't blame the current state of your life on what this. Like that. That can take time. Logically, we should be like, okay, but when people make people feel guilty for not being able to forgive quickly, I'm like, y' all miss humanity. That's a process. Then the healing can't even start till the forgiveness happens. So if it takes you six months or a year or whatever to really release that person's impact on your life. Don't even try to think you're going to be healed the next month. Like then. Then you have to say if you. If I loaned you a thousand thousand dollars and the thousand dollars is the egregious offense, I. I may have to. It may take me some time to know I'll never get that thousand dollars back. Like to. To say you no longer owe it.

[Jackie Perry]

Yeah.

[Jada Edwards]

And when I see you not be like, where my thousand dollars?

[Jackie Perry]

Right. I see you got some of my money. You got some Balenciagas on. I know that's my.

[Preston Perry]

Come out that check.

[Jada Edwards]

What's happening?

[Jackie Perry]

For sure. Jealous.

[Jada Edwards]

Okay. Okay.

[Preston Perry]

Run them pockets.

[Jackie Perry]

So it's.

[Jada Edwards]

You have to process that. To release a person of an offense, I have to deeply and fully acknowledge. Not church like church language. Fully acknowledge they're never gonna pay me back. And that's okay. God has more than covered the thousand dollars. However, the reality is if I am living check to check or I'm a millionaire, what that missing thousand dollars means means to me is different. So then I have to take time to say, man, this threw my bills off for a month versus maybe it didn't impact me that much. So that thing is separate than acknowledging I'll never get that back. And I'm trusting the Lord for that. But now I gotta deal with reality. Yes, maybe I didn't get groceries this month, maybe it didn't affect me, but they're two different things. Acknowledging that you don't owe it, that God's got it more than covered is different than walking through the entire impact of what it did. And both of those take time. I would love to say there should be a lot of offenses that we are able to do real time the more we walk with the Lord. But man, there's some stuff that just hurts. It's some stuff. You're not even you 42 before you realize that your mama said something when you was 8 and it just jacked you up for your whole. You know what I'm saying? So I just think there needs to be some permission there. God gives grace for that. To know that it takes time for that sometimes. But yeah, the acknowledgement that this will never be repaid is. Is one thing. Then the, the wrestling with the impact of that lack of repayment is. Is two separate things.

[Jackie Perry]

And would you say that someone who is processing and acknowledging and doing all the things that they should be? Because I think some people feel like I have to reconcile to prove I've forgiven.

Why you make that Face.

[Jada Edwards]

Cause who. Who said that?

[Jackie Perry]

Because you can feel like if. Like, if you have a friend breakup and you process the things and you did all the stuff and you forget forgave. It's like, oh, why y' all not cool again? Why y' all not going out? Why y' all not connected? And it feels as if, no, I've released the debt, but that doesn't necessarily mean I want the relationship. Yeah, but you can feel like, because I don't want the relationship, does that mean I'm still offended or is I'm actually just placing a. A bo. I think it can be difficult in Christian spaces to delineate between space and wisdom and offense and forget where we just don't even know if we're doing the right thing.

[Jada Edwards]

Yeah. Yeah. So. But staying mad about what I think you owe me is different than being in a process of how you've impacted me. So I can say, you know, preston don't owe me that thousand dollars.

[Jackie Perry]

Yeah.

[Jada Edwards]

And I know I've forgiven when I'm not mad that he got a raise, even though it was 10 years later and he never brought it up. Like, I'm like, he done. He doesn't owe it. It's. It's done. It's non. Existent. That is. Those are signs of forgiveness. Like, I'm not even thinking about it anymore, and he just gave somebody else $5,000. What? I'm not even like, the two are not. I'm like, oh, cool. You know, that's different than saying, next time he wants to go into business together, I may not go into business with you. I don't know how I trust you with money. That. That might not even be about you. It might be be about me. The Lord is working on my trust and what's healthy for us. The Lord's not gonna force me to be in financial relationship with you when I'm not healthy enough to love you. Well, in the space, there's no merit badge for forcing myself to be like, we gonna be in a partnership again. That's the godly thing. And God's like, no, because you. You not gonna function well. Right. So there's. Their boundaries.

[Jackie Perry]

Are.

[Jada Edwards]

Are not just for us. They're for the person too. God's like, you cannot love my son or daughter well. Cause they hurt you. You stay over there.

[Sponsor Representative]

That's good.

[Jada Edwards]

Because they work both ways. It's not just protecting you. Sometimes God has given you a boundary to protect that person.

[Preston Perry]

Yeah. Because I think people often try to give you their definitions of forgiveness. How Forgiveness is supposed to look like in their own mind. It's like, no, even our forgiveness should be colored with God's wisdom, because God doesn't want us to. Because God still loves me. He doesn't want to continue to put me in a position that might wound me. And so I can release you. You, while at the same time not rocking with you the way I rock with you. That's not sign of, you know, unforgiveness, but agape.

[Jada Edwards]

Remember that divine benevolence. Do I still want God's best for you?

[Preston Perry]

Yes.

[Jada Edwards]

When I see you get promoted, when I see that that thing you did to me didn't derail your life and God is still blessing you got. How does that make me feel? That's good, because that's how I know I forgive it. If I want your life to kind of hit a limit because of what you've done, that's not forgiven. Goodness.

[Jackie Perry]

Yeah.

[Jada Edwards]

I'm like, great for you.

[Preston Perry]

Because we all think God gonna get people back that harmless, like, they still doing good.

[Jada Edwards]

Listen, vengeance is mine, said the Lord.

[Jackie Perry]

That's what he said.

[Jada Edwards]

Which means it's not your business.

[Jackie Perry]

Yeah.

[Jada Edwards]

If I take it how I take it, if you see it not your business is mine. Because guess what? Where should my life be limited because of what I did to somebody? I'm glad. I'm glad them prayers didn't go through, because I'm just. But again, have I received God's forgiveness? Do I feel forgiven by God when I'm not in church? Do I feel forgiven by God when I haven't read my Bible this week? If I don't, then that's how I'm treating other people.

[Preston Perry]

That's good.

[Jackie Perry]

So it's always a. I think this book is the book y' all need to get. You need to read this with First John. You need to read this with. With. With Corinthians. You need to read this with Matthew.

[Jada Edwards]

Mark, Luke, and John, with the whole Bible.

[Jackie Perry]

You. With the. With the scriptures alongside you. That's it. But I. This is a necessary. And. And I just want to. I want to land this plane. That. At the end of the day, the greatest commandments hinge on two things. To love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your mind, all your soul. And some of us want to stay there, but to love our neighbor as ourself. And in First John, it also communicates, if you don't love people, you ain't loving God. And so this is a major discipleship issue that I think I am grateful that the Lord pruned you so that you could give us this resource.

[Preston Perry]

This is really great.

[Jackie Perry]

Prune it.

[Preston Perry]

Thank you for coming and blessing us.

[Jada Edwards]

Thank y', all. Perry.

[Jackie Perry]

All right, take a nap.

[Preston Perry]

Peace.