When Creativity and Humility Meet: A Conversation with Tye Tribbett

Summary

Podcast Summary: With The Perrys

Episode: When Creativity and Humility Meet: A Conversation with Tye Tribbett

Date: October 27, 2025
Hosts: Preston Perry (“Host 2”) & Jackie Hill Perry (“Host 1”)
Guest: Tye Tribbett

---

Episode Overview

This episode features a rich, engaging conversation between The Perrys and gospel artist Tye Tribbett, diving into the intersection of creativity and humility in Christian art and leadership. They reflect on Tye’s journey, the challenges and joys of being "different," guarding integrity in a rapidly changing music industry, and candid spiritual discussions about the state and future of the church. The episode is marked by transparency, humor, humility, and thoughtful theological reflection.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Naiveté of Youth and Divine Protection

• Jackie recalls a story of unknowingly encountering a burglar in Chicago, her naïveté possibly diffusing a dangerous situation (00:09–02:39).
  • Memorable moment: “I think me being naive and being hospitable, I think that actually threw him off where he's like, yeah, let me go.” — Jackie (02:39)

2. Tye’s Pastoral Approach to Music

• Intentional Theology in Music:

  • Tye purposefully embeds “scripture and God content” in his work, not wanting to just create for creativity's sake (04:59).
  • Early on, he led Bible studies during choir rehearsals to center the group on shared faith and scripture (05:59–06:34).

• “The teacher became the student”

  • Tye’s mentorship in the music industry forced him into humility, teaching him to value simplicity and broad appeal without compromising spiritual integrity (20:16–21:46).

3. Embracing Being “Weird” or Different as a Creative

• Discovering His Uniqueness:
  • Tye always felt “different,” teased as a youth, and only realized how uniquely creative his sound was outside his home church (12:28–13:54).
  • Secretly listening to jazz broadened his musical language despite being raised strictly on gospel (13:54–14:18).
  • He advocates for joy and authenticity in creating:
    • “The Bible don't just say, serve the Lord. It says, serve him with gladness...” (14:19).

4. Industry Critiques: The Struggle for Authenticity

• Initial Success, Industry Pressure, and Critique:

  • Tye describes the tension between his live sound and studio product, learning that sometimes “forced art will always sound like forced art” (22:06).
  • Experiencing national success first in the mainstream, not church, shifted his perspective and ultimately his music (15:17–16:26).

• Learning from Conformity:

  • Even when producers tried to “simplify” his sound, he realized the importance of elements and spacing in music and adapted these lessons (21:46–22:06).

5. Creativity, Humility, and Community

• Family and Support Systems:
  • Tye credits his confidence to his family and musical community, grounding him amid challenges and public critique (25:17–27:02).
  • “If we got booed Friday, rehearsal is Monday, and… my strength just came back…” (26:39)

6. Boldness & Controversy in Art

• Addressing Taboo Topics:
  • Tye admits his direct statements on topics like sexuality were both an outgrowth of his church context and a deliberate call to conversation, not condemnation (30:27–31:54).
    • “It was to start a conversation. It wasn't to condemn or… throw shots at.” (31:04)
• On the Power & Responsibility of Lyrics:
  • The episode reflects on how music softens or intensifies difficult messages (32:05–32:33).

7. State of the Gospel Music Industry

• Sensationalism & Ambition:

  • Tye critiques a shift from ministry to self-promotion and virality, lamenting “impotent songs… not a lie to me,” and calls for authentic, God-centered creation (33:39–36:09).
    • “I think the fire is getting in the seats in some of the gospel music mindsets… a lot of people just want to be the one.” (35:02)

• On Serving Systems vs. Serving God:

  • “When you serve YouTube, it's different. You gotta partner with award shows… But when you serve, hit different.” (36:59–37:49)

8. Church Critique & Suffering Well

• On Manipulation and Money in Church:

  • Tye resists the pressure to adopt manipulative fundraising tactics, illustrating with a story about raising and giving away $30,000, only for his church to later receive a $1 million blessing (47:13–48:12).
    • “If God don't provide for the church, God is not a provider.” (46:14)
    • “I don't like using people. I like loving people.” (48:12)

• On “Church Hurt”:

  • The hosts and Tye debunk the uniqueness of “church hurt,” placing emphasis on personal responsibility in faith beyond disappointments with institutions (51:16–51:49).

• Local vs. Global Church:

  • The conversation stresses the importance of grounding discipleship in local church community, not merely reacting to trends in the global church (53:14–54:59).
    • “We're more concerned about the global church than we are our local community and that's why we're not making disciples, we're just making videos.” — Preston (54:02)

9. End Times, Technology, and Spiritual Readiness

• Signs of the Times:
  • Tye posits current turbulence is a prelude to end-times events, but the hosts urge historical caution and trust in God’s timing (58:59–62:42).
  • Jackie highlights the unique speed and reach of deception through technology (63:17).
• Endurance Through Difficulty:
  • The biblical call to endure suffering is paramount (“anyhow, I’ll persevere”), tying the episode’s spiritual reflection to Tye’s recent music (67:09–69:25).
    • “God just don't always snatch you out the fire. Sometimes he get in it with you.” (67:28)
    • “You have to learn to walk while still suffering, while still bleeding, while still leprous.” (68:05)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The teacher became the student in, like, 2.5 seconds. So humility was the biggest lesson I had to learn.” — Tye (20:44)
• “If you give me an audience, I could communicate with them. I don't care who they are.” — Tye (25:37)
• “You have a church. It's not like he has forsaken the church.” — Jackie (49:26)
• “When we did it, God's…or when we trusted God… it worked.” — Tye, after his church gave sacrificially and received what it needed (48:13)
• “Church hurt is people hurt. Nobody says they have Target hurt…” — Tye (50:57)
• “We often skip the suffering and go to the celebration… get out there and activate Long Suffering.” — Tye (70:09)

---

Important Segment Timestamps

• Jackie’s Burglary Story: 00:09–02:39
• Pastoral Approach to Music: 04:19–06:34
• Tye Reveals Early Ministry Roots: 06:34–07:12
• Embracing “Weirdness” as a Creative: 10:07–15:03
• Industry Lessons, Forced Art vs. Authenticity: 20:16–22:17
• Gospel Industry Critique: 33:39–36:36
• Church as System vs. God’s Kingdom: 43:03–51:44
• End Times & Technology: 58:59–63:54
• On Enduring Hardship (“Anyhow”): 67:09–71:40

---

Closing Tone and Final Thoughts

With humor, candor, and deep theological resonance, Tye Tribbett and The Perrys unpack the challenges and joys of creating and leading with integrity. The conversation continually returns to humility, the importance of spiritual authenticity over showmanship, and a conviction that both church and art should be rooted in God’s Word and Spirit—no matter the cultural context or pressures of visibility and success.

Memorable send-off:
“I am just getting started… when my wife and I come back, we are going to chop it up…” — Tye (71:53)

---

For Listeners

This episode offers both behind-the-scenes perspectives on an influential gospel artist’s journey and practical wisdom for Christians in creative, leadership, or ministry roles. It’s a call to endure, create authentically, and pursue God’s vision over ambition.

---

[End of summary]

Transcript

[Ty D.]

Foreign.

[Host 1]

How are you?

[Host 2]

What up with y'? All?

[Host 1]

So we had an episode with somebody, and I introduced a particular story that I feel like this would be a good story to tell.

[Host 2]

I'm gonna say I really wanted her to tell it.

[Host 1]

I'm gonna say it real succinctly because I thought about it, you know, I was like, oh, this is a story I don't think I told on with Paris, which is I had moved to Chicago. I was maybe about, I don't know, 23. I'm from St. Louis. So, you know, living in certain kind of underprivile is not a strange feature in my life. Yet at the same time, I was unaware of the degree of the underprivileged nature of this.

[Host 2]

You didn't know how they moved in my city.

[Host 1]

I correctly did not. And so I was at somebody's house. Cause I was staying with somebody until I could get my first check to put down on an apartment. Okay. I'm in the little office room. They done turn into a bedroom. Cause I'm living in there with a few times in, like, a bunch of systematic theology books. And so I'm sitting there on my phone, scrolling, and I heard somebody come through the door. You understand what I'm saying? And. Cause guess the house people, they weren't home. So somebody comes through the door. And I'm thinking it's one of them. And so he walks in. I hear him walking around the living room and stuff like that. Mind you, I'm on my phone. He walks up to the door where I am. He looks at me. I look at him. I say, what's up? He look crazy. And then he leaves and starts running down the steps.

[Ty D.]

And.

[Host 1]

And I'm thinking, like, why he run like that? I just didn't understand why houseguards would be running. And so then I stepped out the room. I was like, he left the door open. I was like, why would he leave the door open?

[Ty D.]

So then I walk out the door.

[Host 2]

You sound like a Valley girl.

[Host 1]

And then the gate was like, is.

[Ty D.]

He in a rush?

[Host 1]

I said, why you leave the gate open? Because we was at one of them churches where everybody, you know, they had all things in common. So I'm thinking, that is somebody from the church that they got a key. So I call the house owner people. And I said, did y'.

[Ty D.]

All.

[Host 1]

Was somebody supposed to come over here? And they was like, no. I said, do somebody got your key that I don't know about? He said, jackie, did somebody just rob me? I said, I think so. And I looked around. He said, is my laptop there? I said, it's not. And so I just didn't. I didn't know that they were getting. Getting robbed.

[Host 2]

But what's crazy is.

[Host 1]

Cause I said, what's up to him.

[Host 2]

What's crazy is I said, what's up? We were dating when this happened. And she called me. And the only thing I can do is just thank God. Cause it's like, you don't know. You a young girl.

[Host 1]

I think me being naive, being at.

[Host 2]

Home by yourself, he could have did anything crazy. Then we would have been hunting.

[Host 1]

I think he thought I was nuts. Because he's like, why she saying hi to me? I think me being naive and being hospitable, I think that actually threw him off where he's like, yeah, let me go.

[Host 2]

Yeah, she got a pistol. She ain't scared of nothing.

[Host 1]

But they traced the laptop. He lived down there. The Blob.

[Ty D.]

He lived on the corner.

[Host 1]

He lived on the street. So he saw them leave. So he was a neighbor. I don't know. We got Ty Trippet with us today.

[Ty D.]

No way I can make it without you. I can't even comb my hair. All right, just learn the lyrics, bro. Cause what you did earlier. Oh, no, you remix.

[Host 2]

He was in my backyard.

[Ty D.]

I walked up, I said, I can't.

[Host 2]

Even brush my tongue.

[Ty D.]

I was like, you doing a remix?

[Host 1]

That's ridiculous.

[Host 2]

No, that song was one of my favorite song. And I would sing the whole song, but I would just add my own stuff.

[Ty D.]

Oh, that's cool. That's the way you do it. That's. You make it real and palatable to you.

[Host 2]

I didn't want the song to end, so I just, you know, I just wrote with you.

[Host 1]

You act like this man's song was 7 minutes and 37 seconds.

[Ty D.]

You understand?

[Host 1]

Every song need a reprise.

[Ty D.]

That story was crazy, though. Jackie, are you okay? Are you still okay?

[Host 1]

I'm fine.

[Ty D.]

Okay. Praise the Lord. I'm okay.

[Host 1]

I'm okay. I just really didn't understand. But how are you today?

[Ty D.]

I am great. I feel really good. I got my holiness sweatsuit on. Yeah, you look fly. Thank you, brother. I thought about what I wanted you.

[Host 1]

Be putting it on.

[Ty D.]

I know y' all be chilling, so. I love everything y' all do, everything y' all about, you know? I mean, it's an honor for me to be here, man. I love y', all, for real.

[Host 1]

Thank you.

[Host 2]

I told you earlier, you and your wife's story is amazing work. It's very inspiring. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thanks so much.

[Ty D.]

Thanks for being here, bro. You already know.

[Host 1]

I think Ty D. I think we. You DM me about something or a tag. I don't know. And I thought to myself, I said, I want to ask Ty some questions. You know what I'm saying? Because I think you forget. You forget who you have access to.

[Ty D.]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host 1]

And so it's just, like, if there's mutual respect, I'm like, man, like, that would be beautiful to have a conversation for people to get to know you, to get to hear some of the insights behind what you do, what you create. But also, what I shared in the dm, I was like, you have such a pastoral approach to your songs. That feels like it just. I don't know. Like, I remember the first time you had a dvd. I used to play that DVD out because I was like, it felt like you would teach. And so the teaching added flavor to the song. And I don't think everybody is gifted with that. Right. And so that's why I appreciate that.

[Ty D.]

And that's intentional for me to at least put scripture in there and God content. Like, it's very easy as a creative to create anything and to write about anything. I choose to, like, arrest my sound and my artistry to the things of God. Because, I mean, I had GA at a very, very young age. Not like, they're my babies and not my kids or something like that, but when I was with ga, we was all teenagers and kids and stuff like that. Yeah, I probably was one of the oldest ones at, like, 21 or something like that. And so having a group of that size, this is when choirs was big and John P. Kee was out, Hezekiah Walker was out. And if you didn't have 100 or 200 people, you didn't really have a choir. So we had, like, 50, 75 people. You know what I'm saying? And so with a community that size, you can imagine the difficulties, the stories, the problems, the issues. We family, for real, the trouble. So it's like, oh, we need a word. So I started having Bible studies. I know y' all ain't asking me this, but I started having Bible studies on our Monday night rehearsals. Like, let's just come together, and let's see if we all, like, agree on some of the same things. Cause I realized we was just, you know, just. You go to that church, you go to that church, we might just. Let's just come together. We all at least believe this. So I started having these things called tags sessions. Talk about God. My mom just bought me a Dates concordance. I was like, oh, my Lord, you.

[Host 1]

Look like a theologian. It was stick, wasn't it?

[Ty D.]

That was theology school for me. Just the. And one of the first things I said to GA was like, yo, do y' all know that when I think of the goodness of Jesus and all these stuff, it's not in the Bible?

[Host 2]

Wow.

[Ty D.]

So this is 96. You know what I mean? I was like. So I just started, like, teaching the Bible and like, yo, this is not in the Bible, but this is, like, almost apologetics, but not as far as that. So that kind of, like, centered my writing. Like, oh, if we need this as youth, we need this as youth. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm not going to write about Adidas and. Nothing wrong with that. All the Adidas songs is great.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Ty D.]

But I'm going to talk about what I feel like we need to hear based on what I'm hearing from this community. So I took ga, that community as a tie to who I will be speaking to and made them, you know, the one of the.

[Host 2]

The one.

[Ty D.]

What is that? I'm thinking of the leper. The one leper that came back to say thank you. Yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? But they all need the same thing. That's what I'm saying. I use GA to say, okay, all youth must need this because we didn't have the context of social media.

[Host 2]

Did you say. Did you say 96?

[Ty D.]

1996.

[Host 2]

That's when you started GA?

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Ty D.]

Wow. Were you born? Yeah.

[Host 2]

I was. I was a.

[Host 1]

In 96.

[Ty D.]

10, 11. I was 10. March 12.

[Host 1]

Yeah. I would have been 7. Whoa.

[Ty D.]

So, yeah. So there was no social media. There was no. So wait, he going crazy right now.

[Host 2]

I thought we were the same age, bro.

[Ty D.]

I am 49.

[Host 1]

Are you?

[Ty D.]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And you be jumping like that.

[Ty D.]

Chilling. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Your knees are intact. When is the last time you gave God glory for that?

[Host 2]

My goodness.

[Host 1]

Ah, it's the little things, bro.

[Host 2]

You got good hips and everything. Cause you jumped.

[Ty D.]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

I say this dude. This dude must have played basketball or something.

[Ty D.]

I did. So I thought I was gonna play ball. When I went to high school, I was on a little JV team.

[Host 1]

The worship leader.

[Host 2]

You know what's crazy? I know we got a lot of. Yeah, we got a lot. A lot of questions. But one of my biggest regrets is I haven't seen you live yet. Oh, I've seen so many gospel artists.

[Host 1]

Every time I'm not here. Right.

[Host 2]

When we saw each other on the plane, we was Both going to Chicago. You was doing a concert in Chicago. I couldn't make it.

[Ty D.]

You invited me, but I was like.

[Host 2]

Man, I gotta see Todd live. Cause on D, you look like LeBron James. I mean, you got height on the.

[Ty D.]

It came down a little bit, but not cause of. Yeah, yeah. No, I'm just playing. I feel like anything I'm called to do or called to be, I'm trying not to be fearful of it because of, you know, how I experienced it before, whether pastor or whatever or being 49, I'm approaching it like, okay, I'm gonna redefine it. That's it. I'm going to redefine if I'm going to be a pastor. Oh, I do not want to be. No. Oh, my. Why would you. Oh, redefine it? Yeah. I mean, you're going to be 49. You're going to be old. You're going to be 50. You half a century. I'm redefine it. You look young to it. You look young.

[Host 2]

I mean, you are young, but you look younger than what you are.

[Ty D.]

Thank you, brother. Thank you. I appreciate that.

[Host 1]

Hear what I'm about to say with a grain of salt.

[Ty D.]

Okay. Okay, I got you.

[Host 1]

When I first was introduced to your music, I probably was introduced to it late because I wasn't raised Christian. Okay, So I became a Christian in 2008. And it was. One of your albums was a DVD everybody had on Ties, something like that.

[Ty D.]

Oh, Victory.

[Host 1]

And I feel like in that time, I felt like you and Molly were creating sounds that I hadn't heard before. And what I've come to learn is that people that make music like that are weird in a Good way. Right?

[Ty D.]

100.

[Host 1]

When did you discover that? Maybe I think differently than everybody. But what also allows you to have the courage to just walk into that.

[Ty D.]

Thank you for that.

[Host 2]

Anytime we use something outside of its intended use, it becomes destructive. And that's what porn is. It is a perversion of how God created sex. And so it don't just affects how we see each other, but it affects how we see God and how he created us to experience other image bearers. And so this is the reason why Covenant Eyes is such a necessary tool for us to use in the body of Christ.

[Host 1]

We all have, for the most part, TVs, iPads, MacBooks devices. They're always on. And so it can be difficult sometimes to remember that Christ cares about what we do with what's in our hands. Today we just are talking simply about digital integrity. Being the same person online that we are in real life. Digital integrity isn't about just avoiding the bad stuff. It's also about honoring God with every click and with Every scroll. Proverbs 4. 23 tells us that we are to guard our hearts because out of it flows all the stuff, pornography and social media. The enemy uses these things to go after our integrity. And that's why we want to tell you about Covenant Eyes. It's not just a software, it's an accountability thing. Covenant Eyes filters out harmful content, sinful content, tracks your activity and sends these reports to friends or mentors that you trust to hold you accountable simply because we don't want you struggling alone.

[Host 2]

In my years of discipling and mentoring young men, one of the number one things that has been helpful for those young men is accountability. Pornography is a sin that we commit behind closed doors when no one is watching. And it's a sin that people stay in for years because there's no accountability. And so a tool that helps us to be accountable to one another is super helpful for the body of Christ. And so this is the reason why I personally endorse Covenant Eyes because I think it's a great tool to help us to be accountable to the Lord and, and one another.

[Host 1]

So if you're ready to step up your digital integrity game, head over to CovenantEyes.com Parries today for a free 30 day trial of their accountability software. That's CovenantEyes.com Perrys if you don't know how to spell it, it's P E R R y s for 30 days free.

[Ty D.]

Always knew I was different, but in a bad way at first. How I look, you know, I mean, I was always a skinny black bucktooth guy. So I was always, you know, teased and all that stuff.

[Host 2]

People say we look alike.

[Ty D.]

I love that, bro. I text you that. Yeah, I was like, yeah, bet I like that. That's a compliment to me. But once I, my father became the pastor of the church and I just kind of stepped up as, you know, the, the. I don't want to say musical director. Cause that wasn't what it was. I just played the organ, you know what I'm saying? Back then, the freedom he gave me, me, my brother Thad and Pug was on the drums. The freedom he gave we, it would be like, there's not a friend like the. No, that's fire. The mothers didn't know and the youth was like, but things like that. He gave me the freedom to do that. I didn't know I was weird or different. Until I was outside of the church context. So when I went to visit the Baptist church up the street, my energy and my sound was like, whoa, what's going. What y'?

[Host 1]

All?

[Ty D.]

You know? But at my family church with 75 of us, all family, basically, they know that's Ty, da da da. He's crazy, whatever. They let me trial and error, you know, I mean, it wasn't like, you know. But when I started traveling, I started hearing or if we opened and then other group sung, I'm like, well, I sound different.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Ty D.]

I love John P. Kee. I love the hawkers. I love all the greats. I wasn't allowed to listen to any circular music. Only gospel. No circular. Get down there. What you doing? Yeah, so I was sneaking. Listening to Joe Sample, Weather Report. Yellowjack is all these jazz musicians. And that expanded me. I'm like, oh, my Lord. I don't just want to play the standards. I don't. I'm. Yo.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Ty D.]

And it's just me, the bass, and the drum. So it's not like we programmed our stuff. We got you ready, 1, 2. No click track like they do today. We just. We just gonna play. So if I'm gonna approach these same songs every week, I'm not gonna approach it the same. Cause I want to enjoy what I do. The Bible don't just say, serve the Lord. It says, serve him with gladness. So what could I do to be glad about what I'm doing? You understand what I'm saying? How can I keep joy attached to what I'm doing? You know what I mean? And not just obligation. So that kind of came from everything I do. I try to find, you know, a way I can enjoy it. But then when I found out I was weird or different, that made me look for the Mollys and look for the others who had that weirdness. You know what I mean? Kind of try to find a community. It's not many, but. It's not many, but.

[Host 2]

Yeah. When you first hit the national scene and globally. Nationally and globally, people started to experience your music. How was the critique? How was the criticism?

[Ty D.]

Okay, so when they first. Y' all have good questions. When I first hit, like, a national scene, it was from a Wrigley's chewing gum competition.

[Host 1]

I ain't know that, really.

[Ty D.]

This is in 1997. They had a. It was a gospel choir competition, like Sister Zack.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Ty D.]

You know what I mean? They came out, they rose, like, joyful. We was in a competition. First one was regional in Philly. If you win that, you Go to the national one in Chicago. So we won the regional one. Like, whoa. And now Everybody from all 50 states or however many states were involved is meeting in Chicago. This is our first, like, national. Like, we're gonna be in front of people. That's not Jersey and Philly. We're going to Chicag. We was on there. All the choirs went, whatever. And we won that one as well. After that, we got, like, this Prince of Egypt thing. And then we weren't just all over the churches in America. Our first outing was mainstream. First time we went out touring and all that stuff was faith Hill, Tim McGraw, Don Henley, the Eagles. We did, like, Luther Bandross, Leanne Rhymes.

[Host 2]

Wow.

[Ty D.]

Gloria Esteban.

[Host 1]

Even imagining you and Faith Hill.

[Ty D.]

And that's like a girl out of every. Me and Don Henley, really. Me and Faith, we really cool. Like, yeah. Her and her. I love them. So that was kind of, like, different. And so when we first got national exposure, the church didn't know it. They didn't. We wasn't in churches. We was on these huge stages across the world. So I got snatched out of the culture of my small four walls of the church to a culture shock of a whole mainstream. People who don't speak in tongues. And I'm like, whoa. So that kind of shifted my writing even before our first album. Like, okay, I gotta talk to them, too. You know what I mean? So by the time we hit nationally in the church. I don't wanna tell these stories, man.

[Host 1]

Come on. I mean, that was 1997.

[Ty D.]

You can talk about it now. You're healed. That's 30 years old. You're free from that.

[Host 2]

Cause I know. I know, bro.

[Ty D.]

For sure. Sonically, it got bad.

[Host 2]

We was all fans of it.

[Host 1]

It got bad.

[Ty D.]

It got bad. B, A D. Bad B, A D. When Life came out, the first album, Life came out, it was like this earthy soul that was calm. Neo soul chill. I call that the producer's album. The guy that produced that album. His name is James Poyser. Shout out James Poyser from the Roots. See him every night on Jimmy Fallon, right? Love, James Porsche. That's my dude to this day. But to me, that was his approach to kind of like, you know, not tame me, but kind of like, you know, we was all over the place. He, like, just simplified. Just had the elements in there. He would have a loop in there, like, ding, ding. And I'm like, ding, ding, ding. What's all the other stuff? So he really simplified me. Like, you got to simplify yourself so you can be understood by the people. So he taught me the. The art of elements and not just everything you do live like a shed. So I didn't really. I'm not gonna say I didn't really like the Life album, but when it first, it wasn't my. It wasn't one of them.

[Host 2]

It wasn't your baby. Yeah. Like, yeah.

[Ty D.]

So when we first came out with the live sound, it was like, this ain't got. This ain't gospel. This is like this neo soul. And we was playing for Bilal d', Angelo, Erykah Badu, Jill Scott, the Root. We was playing for we Philly. We was recording our album, and the Root Studio live album was recorded at the Root Studio. We were real cool with them. So any events or anything that came along, we was the choir for them. So our sound was very neo soul because we was a product of our musical community in Philly. I didn't really like that. I knew that wasn't the context of where I was going in St. Louis or Chicago. I knew that they wanted, you know, George, and I knew I wasn't that either. But I had to find this in between. So by the time that album came out, I think people was just like. It wasn't, you know, gospel. It just was like this. I was trying to be something I wasn't. But when we performed these songs live, like, no Way sounds that way on the album. But when we perform no Way Live, it was like this to everybody. So everybody expected that calm approach of, you know what I mean? Oh, let's have time. Come to the church. Like, you know what I mean? And we came there and I said, y' all did Life. Let me do Victory. That's what I said to the lady. Y' all did the Life album. I love what it did. Let me do Victory and just see how my sound would work. Let me just see how it work if I just do it.

[Host 2]

Good.

[Host 1]

You touched on it, but I want you to teach it a little bit, because I think sometimes creatives feel like moments that don't seem natural are a waste of time. Because I can imagine that even though the first album wasn't necessarily what you wanted to do or even who you were, it's still like the Lord didn't waste it 100%. And so I guess speak to the Lord, still using those moments and those seasons where you just can't. You can't rock out like you want to, but you still need it.

[Ty D.]

Yes, yes, yes. I went into the industry, like, y' all not gonna Change me. So I was already coop. I already worked with all these artists and all that stuff. By the time it was time for my album to come out, already. No, I'm doing so. The reason why we had such friction on the first album. Cause I wanted to present it a certain way. But he like, yo, this is how it goes. So I had a lot of learning to do. I had a lot of humility to accept. I had to realize you don't know it all. You know your church, you know the revivals that you go to, you know the praise conferences that you go to that'll respond a certain way. But there are other ears, there are other things, and this is a music industry. So I had to learn a lot. It definitely was not wasted. I was just not prepared to learn. I thought I already knew what to do, but, ah, the teacher became the student in, like, you know, 2.5 seconds. So humility was the biggest lesson I had to learn. And God's pacing and his timing, because victory still. Still came out. Your sound still came out. The craziness is still out there. Everybody still know you crazy, whatever. But I think it's important that you know, to. To learn. And I. That's what I had to learn in that moment. So that wasn't wasted at all. I learned so much to this day. Yeah. You know, I mean, like, I'm Used the elements. I use the. The things that he taught me, like, every other time. How can I say that? No way. Like, no. No way. Since you brought that song up.

[Host 1]

So.

[Ty D.]

Let it sit out now. That space, Let it breathe. I learned stuff. Just little elements like that. Where you grew up in a small church, y' all just shed. Every space is filled with every space. The cowbell going, do, do, do, do, do, do. Everything gonna fill every space. So I was used to that sonically.

[Host 2]

I've always appreciated your approach creatively. Cause one of the things as a poet, when I used to do my poetry workshops, I used to always tell the poets who was in there to learn that forced art will always sound like forced art.

[Ty D.]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

And your art always. It. I didn't know you personally back then, but I. It seemed like it came very natural to you. Like, you wasn't forcing anything. Like, I don't think this jump was random. I think this jump is random.

[Ty D.]

I'm about to say I think I think it was random.

[Host 2]

But you can tell that's just who you were. Literally, in every genre, we see people kind of conforming to what. What they feel like people should expect.

[Ty D.]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Whether that's hip hop, whether that's gospel or whatever. The reason why the first. The first time I experienced. I didn' Grew up in the church either. I got saved when I was in 06 and I didn't. Nobody didn't hand me your. All the Christians was handing me, like, Christian Rhapsody's Christian artists that they think I would like.

[Host 1]

I knew you like crazy. Oh, I knew you like this.

[Ty D.]

You don't like this.

[Host 2]

Listen to Flame. Like, I was that Christian and, you know, I was hard for me to get, you know, on my secular, you know, hip hop or whatever. And so the first time somebody handed me. They handed me a dvd, it was.

[Ty D.]

A DVD of victory.

[Host 2]

Victory.

[Ty D.]

That's crazy.

[Host 2]

Nah, it's time to celebrate all. That was great. And I just remember just being like, what did you.

[Ty D.]

I'm sorry, what did you.

[Host 2]

Now it's time to celebrate all the.

[Host 1]

What song is that?

[Ty D.]

I'm just asking Victoria. I know that part. What's the part before. Now it's time to celebrate all. What?

[Host 2]

Now it's time.

[Ty D.]

I'm about to do a trivia.

[Host 2]

Now it's time to.

[Ty D.]

Now it's time to celebrate all.

[Host 2]

All that is. That is what? Say. Say it.

[Host 1]

I don't know. Find it.

[Host 2]

Okay, let me find it.

[Ty D.]

Let me find it. It's all banners raised.

[Host 2]

That's what it said. Yeah.

[Ty D.]

Jehovah Nisi. The banner.

[Host 1]

Really?

[Ty D.]

Yes.

[Host 1]

He don't know.

[Host 2]

Look, I like the song.

[Host 1]

He heard you say Jesus.

[Host 2]

I love the song.

[Host 1]

Did he say Jesus or not?

[Ty D.]

Looking for one name. All right, go ahead. You're all I need.

[Host 2]

Your energy, the writing, just all of it together. It just felt natural.

[Ty D.]

Wow.

[Host 2]

It didn't feel like somebody was forcing anything.

[Ty D.]

Right.

[Host 2]

I think this dude is really crazy.

[Ty D.]

But he's super creative.

[Host 2]

You know what I'm saying? And so I appreciate it. And so, like, my question is, what gave you the confidence?

[Ty D.]

Thank you for that. When I started directing or being the frontman of a choir, that was this scenario. Like Mary telling Jesus to turn water to wine. Like, hey, I need you to do this. Like, what's that got to do with me? My mom was the director for our choir since I was. Since I had consciousness. If not her, my aunt would direct. So your family is musical? My family's musical. My dad was on the Oregon, and my mom was, like, the choir director. Then my dad started preaching, and then so music and word was just, you know, always in my house. So we had Youth Sunday one Sunday, whatever. Like, Ty, I Want you to, you know, direct the choir. I'm like, mom, I'm not directing y' all do that. I'm not directing the choir. My goal was to be the MD for the Grammys, to be the Adam Blackstone. That was my goal in life. To play for the biggest things in the play. I never thought I would write songs, sing songs, stand in front of people. Nowhere in my desires.

[Host 1]

Wow.

[Host 2]

I didn't know that.

[Ty D.]

Oh, nowhere, nowhere. So my mom put me in front of the choir that Sunday. I don't know what we did. Maybe a Hezekiah Walker song, whatever. And the place went up, and everybody's around me rejoicing. And I'm like, no. Cause that means next Sunday. And it happened like that. I just kept, kept, kept, kept doing it. Like, oh, my goodness. So I guess the confidence came from the grounding of my family. And to do it the way I did it, I knew it would work. I don't know how to say it. And I wasn't the only guy. How can I say this? I was playing for other choirs. I was playing for other people. Like I said, we done did all these tours with everybody. I kind of know how it goes. I know how stage moments go. I know what people respond to. I felt like I could discern what people need. So I always said, if you give me a chance, just give me the audience. Just let me talk to them. I'm a communicator. I like music. I like poetry. I like writing. I like drawing. I'm a communicator. I like radio. I like podcasts. So I feel like if you just give me an audience, I could communicate with them. I don't care who they are. So my confidence had to come from that, though, because I had to get over how I looked. I had to get over what I thought. I had to get over bullying, trauma, and all that stuff. I had to get over all that stuff. But again, my family, my wife, like, baby, you fine. We ain't worry about them girls in high school. Where you at now? Where them girls at now? You know what I mean? So I had to get over the confidence in my physical thing. But as far as my sound and stuff is concerned, I had such a movement with ga. It was like, if we got booed Friday, rehearsal is Monday, and that whole environment, that whole thing just reset. Like, are we good? My strength just came back. So I had a community. I wasn't by myself.

[Host 2]

That's cool.

[Host 1]

I'm pulling out my phone. I'm not being weird.

[Ty D.]

Go ahead. Jackson. I call her that.

[Host 1]

It's not that one. It's not that song. It's not. I do have a funny story. It's not that song.

[Ty D.]

What song?

[Host 1]

Hold on, I'mma play it. You know that song was like, dun dun. It starts with like a guitar. Oh.

[Ty D.]

Anyhow, not.

[Host 1]

It's old.

[Ty D.]

Oh, it's old.

[Host 1]

It's not on. You know what I'm saying? We used to play it all the time. It's about blessings.

[Host 2]

Is it on victory or is it on.

[Ty D.]

It's on blessings. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Son of man.

[Host 2]

Bless the Lord. Son of man. Son of man.

[Ty D.]

Son of man.

[Host 1]

I got you, Jackson.

[Ty D.]

I know what you're talking about.

[Host 1]

Playing for five seconds, you can tell we some fans.

[Ty D.]

I'll tell you about that.

[Host 1]

Let me, let me, let me, let me type it in, cuz this I. I want y' all to hear it. For the people that don't know this, I'mma play 5 seconds. My question is new. That doesn't sound like gospel, right? So what musical influences were even a part of you having songs and arrangements that just were different?

[Ty D.]

So that song is part of the 5% of songs I did not write.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Ty D.]

I was getting CDs everywhere I went after Victory. This is on the Standout album, which came out after Victory. I was getting CDs from everybody. Demos from everybody. Check this out. I was like, okay. And when I had time, I literally, like, listened to them. I listened to all of them. When I had time in the drive or whatever, I heard that song.

[Host 1]

Yeah, that song was something.

[Ty D.]

I said, oh, it's something on this. We gotta contact the guy. I contacted the guy. I put my little. I put a little sauce on it, you know, musically and all that stuff. But I intentionally wanted it because it didn't sound gospel and I felt like we needed to expand it. And I think after Victory, all eyes or all ears was on me. So I wanted to intentionally, you know, pivot something and shake up something like. Whoa. I wanted to intentionally do that. Cause it's not black white worship praise. It's kingdom. Yo, what we doing? Yeah, I don't know what's going to come out of me.

[Host 2]

Yeah, you do a really good job of mixing genres.

[Ty D.]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Because what we doing?

[Host 1]

I don't know what I am to be. I know I ain't no dang on Sabrina.

[Ty D.]

I'm a no, no, you're too hot. You're a no, no, I'm a no, no. Y' all heard that when you came outside singing no way. I was like, that's. He's a.

[Host 1]

No, he's an evangelist.

[Ty D.]

Okay. I just wanted to intentionally do that.

[Host 2]

You got a question?

[Host 1]

Cause of course I got you.

[Host 2]

I'm finna tell him. Do you remember thinking of speaking of poetry? Do you remember.

[Host 1]

Oh, Lord, that's gonna deviate from.

[Host 2]

Okay, I'll say.

[Ty D.]

Don't forget that.

[Host 2]

I'm gonna say something later. Yeah, you don't remember. It was years ago.

[Ty D.]

Don't forget it. In another country that Jackie Keegan let Jackie G. One. Another country?

[Host 2]

Yes.

[Ty D.]

Why would you do that? And we gotta move on. All right, go ahead, Jackie.

[Host 1]

There's one of your songs. Because I'm also. We're trying to gradually progress, but one of your songs, you said, come on. To homosexuality. That was everybody. That was everybody. Praise dance song.

[Host 2]

Why do you say it like that?

[Host 1]

Because it was so aggressive. It was out of nowhere, mind you. I ain't been a lesbian for 12 months. I'm like, goodness gracious. And so when I heard that song, I was like, I probably would have repented if I heard that when I was gay. But I guess I'm wondering, was that a conscious effort, too, or did the era kind of lend itself to that degree of boldness?

[Ty D.]

I think a little bit of both. I think the era lent itself to it, and it was intentional and I was. My delivery was more that. I would call it dogmatic now or militant because I grew up Pentecostal, Apostolic. No earrings. Just know whatever you. You put that after the thing.

[Host 2]

No life.

[Ty D.]

So I was so used to that type of talk, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know what I mean? You know, it was just.

[Host 1]

Cause that's a wild ad lib, yo.

[Ty D.]

And it's still on there. They wanted me to take it off a radio, like, take it over and put it on. I was like, nah, that's what I said. What I said.

[Host 1]

You know what I mean?

[Ty D.]

It was to start a conversation. It wasn't to condemn or, you know, throw shots at. It was like, whoa, somebody said that in the song.

[Host 1]

No, it was strong.

[Ty D.]

Yeah, let's talk about it, how we feel, what's going on. I was dealing with it a whole lot Again. In my community, we've had constant conversations just trying to just talk and heal and help. And so that's where I was at that moment. Like, yo, you know what? Let me just say something and see how people who are dealing with it feel about it and see how people who feel like, that's the biggest sin in the world. Feel about it. Cause y' all need to chill, too. And we all need to just come together and. And talk about this thing. So that was very, very intentional for me. And it shook everybody to me. And I keep doing that. I'm just like, man, I'm just being me. I'm just shaking people. You can't do that nowadays. You can't.

[Host 1]

You know, And I think that's the fascinating thing about music as a medium, is that there are some things that you can say that the music softens, you know?

[Ty D.]

Cause, I mean, that wasn't a soft. I didn't do it softly at all.

[Host 1]

You did not. But it's so. It's so much instrumentation around it that it's like. If you say that with nothing, it lands different.

[Host 2]

That's the beauty of music, though.

[Host 1]

That's what I'm saying. Music gives you space to say things that you should say in other spaces. But you have to navigate the conversation differently because you don't have music as a. I won't even say a crutch, but as a. I don't know how.

[Ty D.]

To say things like that. Hard conversations. I always use a sandwich approach. Right. Like, so. Bread, Meat, bread. So you. Hey, you guys are great. I appreciate what you're doing here. We need to fix this, because people are coming in, but thank you guys so much. You gotta say certain things with the bread.

[Host 1]

Yeah, that's good.

[Host 2]

I'm interested to know. Just there's been a lot of talk about gospel music. We had the whole gospel music CCM conversation.

[Ty D.]

Jeez.

[Host 2]

What's up, you know, with Erica Campbell here a couple weeks ago? Oh, word.

[Ty D.]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

She came in, you know, and it was a lot of talk a couple of weeks ago. Whatever. You've been in the gospel game a long time.

[Ty D.]

Yes, sir.

[Host 2]

I know. Like, I grew up in the spoken word community and Christian community. It was a time around 2019 where it started to feel different, and it feel like the old days. Like, a lot of things start to change or whatever. What are some good and positive things that has changed about, like, good and negative things that. That's changed with the gospel world? From your perspective, you being.

[Ty D.]

This is my opinion.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Ty D.]

Be honest. This is not all. This is not the truth of life. This is what. What I think when I think of the question that you just asked. I feel like the sensationalism of gospel music has increased through certain shows. You know, you got American Idol. You got certain things. So, like, the goal for some people is now to be on and not to be Effective or to be alight or to encourage, strengthen. You know what I mean? Whatever the Bible says, sing them on spiritual songs. That's not on our mind. We want to be on. We're going to go viral. I don't like leading with that heart. Ambition is not horrible. Like fire is not. But fire and a locomotive needs to be in the place that fuels the engine. If it's in the seats, it's going to burn. I think the fire is getting in the seats. In some of the gospel music mindsets that how everybody. A lot of people just wants to be the one. I think that's the negative thing. So with that being said, what stems from that tree is impotent songs, cookie cutter approach, radio hits, it's not a lie to me. And like you're saying, some people have to compromise so much to get placement on these platforms because it's so political. So you almost got to do a abc. It's easiest. Jesus and me. Oh, that's nice. It's. You almost got to do that. Don't take my hook. Yo, I'm suing, but I don't like the. I don't. I don't like. Sometimes I feel from certain. From certain sounds that. That it's not about Jesus. I know I sound like a pastor with a clergy collar, but it's like, yo, I actually meant it and still mean it and hold that integrity like a football. Like, I really try to keep meaning it with all the hits of, hey, you should do this, do it for Jesus. I'm doing hey, man. But you should tie. If you had. If you had this artist on. I want to mean it when I hit the stage. I want to mean it. I want to love. That's not priority to everybody. I don't know what ball everybody is. Everybody got a different ball.

[Host 1]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ty D.]

You understand what I'm saying? So that's a little discouraging to me from the overall view of what this music should be about from God's perspective. Good thing is you're gonna get a message of hope, healing. You're gonna get God content. I love that. At the end of the day, it's God content. So I'm not mad at nobody. Nobody approach. Nobody's swag, Nobody's whatever. If it's God content. I mean, you can't. We need more. We need more and more and more of that.

[Host 2]

To me, it seems like you're frustrated as a man of God, but also as a creative. Is it both?

[Ty D.]

It is both. It is both. As a man of God first. And as a creative second like me.

[Host 2]

You can stretch yourself.

[Ty D.]

Yo, you have something else to say, bucko. Bucko. And a different way to say it. And you got a different way to say it.

[Host 2]

No, I don't think you're being. I think that's a fair critique, bro.

[Ty D.]

I think that's a fair critique. You married now. You done. You done been through things like. Yo, so I hate when people serve the system, any system that is. I hate when people serve systems. I know there's a partnership we need to have with systems to be. To do what we do. We gotta partner with YouTube to do this. Ain't no problem. But when you serve YouTube, it's different. You gotta partner with award shows to have your music exposed through that. But when you serve, hit different. And I could feel that because I was in a place where I was serving it. I was in a place where I was like, yo, if I do this, I get yo, when I do this. And ambition, boop. So I'm like, okay, don't follow ambition. It's good to have vision and goals, but still follow Jesus. Oh, he orders the steps. Got it. So he gives the destination, but you don't make your own way.

[Host 2]

That's good.

[Ty D.]

Oh, he's the way.

[Host 1]

That's great.

[Ty D.]

He's the word and he's the way. He's the destination and he's the journey. So I had to learn that. That. And so now I. I look, I look for that and I don't. I don't. You know, I don't see that too much. But when I talk, when I teach, I. I definitely do that. Because I don't. I don't. Oh, my gosh, I'm about to say this, but I am.

[Host 1]

You should say it.

[Ty D.]

You only. I'm not an advocate for the gospel music industry. I'm not an advocate for any industry. Oh, yeah. I thought your hat said I'm not for anybody. But it said I'm not.

[Host 1]

I'm not for everybody.

[Ty D.]

I'm. I'm kingdom first. I try to be kingdom, him first. What's God's perspective? I want God optics on this stuff. Not.

[Host 2]

Yeah, that's good.

[Ty D.]

Cuz when you think industry first, I mean, you fight for the industry. Hey, you can. All right. I mean, yeah. They say stuff about gospel music. I'm like, huh? I don't serve that.

[Host 1]

Right?

[Ty D.]

They say stuff about, oh, man, whoever. I don't serve that. I don't serve anything. I try not to serve anything but God. Not my flesh, not my Family, not my race, not my religion. First. Know God before me. I try to serve God first.

[Host 2]

That's good.

[Ty D.]

I try.

[Host 2]

Yeah, that's good.

[Host 1]

We all do.

[Host 2]

That's good.

[Ty D.]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Second Corinthians 1 talks about Paul as saying that, you know, he has been afflicted. And in all of his afflictions, the Lord has comforted him and that the comfort by which he was comforted, he comforts others. And what I've seen as a leader is that oftentimes God will put you through something that you then have to communicate. So my question is, I guess what is some of the stuff you've had to go through to write the songs you write?

[Ty D.]

What? What? It's in there. No, that's what. Oh, my Lord. Ty. I had to go through Ty. It's so many layers of. You know, when Jesus, you know, brought Lazarus back from the dead and he told the men loose him and let him go. He was wrapped in all these linens and stuff. And it's like I had new life. I was born again, but I had to come out of these layers, you know what I mean? I had layers of grave clothes on me, grave thoughts, grave behaviors, grave habits. So y' all hear the songs depending on what layer is being unwrapped, you understand what I'm saying? Which could have been pride in one, lust in one, greed in another, another anger in another. I've endured so many things that just spill out into the. Into the music. Most recently now I'm on like, I cut my face on a reunion tour. We was on a reunion tour and bro, I was looking for. I was getting my sneakers off, like the. The shelf. And you know, we got a ladder. I'm like, I can reach it, you know what I mean? I just jumped, bro. I jump. I missed it the first time. So in my head I'm like, come on, bro, you know you can reach that. So I put my superman calves on, you know what I mean? I jumped up, got the sneaker, like, boom. Fell down on one of the like pull out racks. That face split open, boy, I can see the white meat. I'm like, oh my God, I'm not going. I heard, slow down. So that's been like my word since that. Slow down. I'm fast paced. I do everything, like. And I used to pride myself on the fact that I could. Yo, the last minute it gets still done. Slow down. You're missing so much in the journey. You're missing so much. You're not mindful, you know what I mean? You're missing. You're missing moments of empathy with your wife or your kids. You're missing moments of compassion with people that surround you or that might work for you or with you, whether it's a sound man or your manager. You're missing a lot of ministry moments. Trying to have the ministry moment, you understand what I'm saying? So slow down has been my. Has been my word lately. You understand what I'm saying? And I learned that a life with God is a walk with him. You know what I mean? It's not flying high. You have moments of flying high or running up everywhere. You have moments of running. But life of God is a walk. He walked with him in the cool. You know, in the garden. He was walking. I was missing a lot of Godness. Cause I was running while he walking.

[Host 1]

You know what I mean?

[Ty D.]

So I'm just trying to slow down, slow my pace. And then you go to. When the Holy Ghost came, they were all sitting.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Ty D.]

So now it's like, whoa. It don't progress from walking to sitting. He's really. Okay. Got him. How you doing? Let's talk. You know what I mean? But being present with him makes me present with everything else. And everything is so much more savory. Conversations, music, time, everything is just so much more savory. And.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Ty D.]

You know what I mean? And when you, you know, slow down and observe, you know.

[Host 2]

Yeah. I want you to talk about the. The Breakfast Club interview you had.

[Ty D.]

Why?

[Host 1]

Cause let me add some caveat. We don't. It's gonna sound good. We don't necessarily care about the. Like, it's not like.

[Ty D.]

And I know that.

[Host 1]

Yeah. We're. Like I said, why?

[Ty D.]

For a joke.

[Host 1]

Yeah. But for people like, oh. Cause some people want to hop on it because it's controversial. We want to get underneath it. You understand what I'm saying?

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Ty D.]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Because you probably could answer the question better because we talked about it. But. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Yeah. I'm just. I heard what you said, and I understood why it landed, how it landed. But in my mind, I'm like, he's a pk. Okay? He's been around church a lot. Like, he has experiences that even if the way it landed was a certain kind of way, we still wanna hear the heart of where that's coming from.

[Host 2]

And maybe because we didn't grow up in the church, I heard it, and I agree with you immediately.

[Ty D.]

Right.

[Host 2]

I didn't.

[Ty D.]

You know what I'm saying? And I was. In my context, I was in a room with people who Were like minded.

[Host 2]

Yes.

[Ty D.]

So I felt safe to say that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

And so, like. So. So I'm being honest. When I heard people respond to a certain way, I was a little bit like, what are y'? All? You know what I mean?

[Ty D.]

I got it.

[Host 2]

And so. But I. Yeah, I want you to.

[Ty D.]

Well, like we said, when you just give them the meat without the buns, that's what I did. I was like, here's the patty. You know what I'm saying? I didn't realize how I said it. In retrospect, I definitely would have said it with a little more tact and a little more consideration of people who don't know me and how I am. But I think I said it earlier. I don't serve any system. I try not to serve. I've been abused by a lot of systems until I realized, oh, God is not a system. Only God is God. Okay, let me lock it with God. And if he assigns me or sends me to a system, I'm locked in with him. I'm sent by him. Church is a system. Or reli. Church is a religious system. And we could go. We could go to the Roman Catholic. I mean, it's a whole lot of ways you go. I want to get y' all canceled or talking about. But it's not centered around God. It's. A lot of it is centered, using God. Many will say, you know, I cast out devils in your name, in your name, in your name. Built churches in your name, ministries in your name, choirs in your name, did albums in your name. We're going to do that because his brand is awesome. God's brand is amazing. There's not a better brand than God. The false prophet is going to use God's brand. So it's like, yo, the Antichrist. So it makes sense to throw God on everything. But when you look at the systems and how it's ran, it's not godly a lot. I'll give you an example. My church right now needs some finances. So we had a capital campaign manager come in, hey, September, you preach about this, and you tell them. And when you tell them, then you get your biggest givers. You have a lunch with them, you have a dinner with them. Da, da, da, da, da. And they're people out there who know what I'm talking about. I ain't talking about you. I'm talking about what happened with me. Get your biggest givers and have lunch and tell them, we really need you. I'm like, okay, okay. And then February, you're going to preach this, and then you going. Then you have big give Sunday and on give Sunday. And I'm like, yo, like a whole game plan. I don't want to do none of that. I understand the business side of the church. I understand, like, yo, we got to have these lights on. Da, da, da, da. But I don't believe God called me to keep a mortgage. If we ain't gonna have the church, meet me at the crib. We lost the church. Sorry, y'.

[Host 2]

All.

[Ty D.]

Yeah, I'm not like, if God don't provide for the church, God is not a provider. So we start going hard for the. For. For the. I don't know, the extensions of God, you know what I mean? The building is now the priority for the pastor. And when the building is the priority for the pastor, his means and methods are different. So I didn't like the capital campaign guy. We fired him. I said, I'm just gonna trust God. You know what I mean? I ain't even thinking about that stuff. Da, da, da, da. We gave. I said, y', all, this Sunday, because I can't get up there and think, yeah, let me set this message up to get these people's money. Yeah, Ty, I ain't at it. Yo.

[Host 1]

People ask, that's the track to prosperity preaching. That's where that starts.

[Ty D.]

A lot of places I go to preach, whatever, they put me in the office. Hey, after you preach, could you raise an offering, please? I was like, I can. I can't. No, you're going to have to do that. I'm not better than nobody in the world. I'm the chief of sinners. But that.

[Host 1]

I just.

[Ty D.]

I can't. I can't, I can't. So I. I said, let me not do that. I'm not. We not doing that. Stood in front of the church saying, you know what we going to do, y'? All? Since we need money, we going to give. I want y' all to put extra in your. In your. In your offering today. And we going to give it to the church across the street. Small little church across the street. We raised, like $30,000 that Sunday. I'm like, okay, we can use that. Gave it to the church across the street. Small church. A month or two later, I go to Transformation Church because we had to sing that night, and then I had to preach that morning. Then I had to go right back on a reunion tour. We sung that night. Amazing. I had to preach the next morning. And before I got up, Pastor Mike Todd was like, hey, man, you know, God Told us to. You know, we got a. You got a mantle over your life. We want to bless your church. I'm like, we need that. We want to give your church a million dollars. Thank you, Jesus. And the church we needed was $1.2 million. So he gave us exactly what we needed to move into the new church. Like, thank you, God.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Ty D.]

So I was like, when we did it, God's. Or when we trusted God, Ty, I'm not telling anybody to do that. When. When I said no to that and trusted God, it worked. Now we're on this. I'm about to do this tour. Oh, gosh. Anyway. Anyway, so everybody. You got sponsors. You got people that want to be involved in everything. Like, hey, so, you know, we want to. We want to. Everybody just. I just don't like using people. I like loving people. I don't want to bring nobody to. I don't want to gather anybody to count how much. I don't want to do that. If it's going to come, it's going to come. I don't think Jesus was fed the 5,000. Like, yo, y' all see these people? I don't think he did that. He loved them. And we're losing the love for the.

[Host 2]

For.

[Ty D.]

For whatever. For whatever it is.

[Host 2]

Cause what it sounds like. It sounds like the same thing that you just talked about. You don't like. You don't sound like. You like boxes. You don't like. You know what I'm saying?

[Ty D.]

Don't say structure.

[Host 2]

Yeah, no, no, no. I'm not gonna say structure. I think sometimes. And that's what I heard when I heard the critique one, a lot of people, like, I feel like their critique of you was unfair because he's in the church, right?

[Ty D.]

I have it.

[Host 2]

It's not like he has forsaken the church.

[Ty D.]

You have a church.

[Host 1]

I think it was the viewpoint that. That it also. It could. I'm just.

[Ty D.]

Go ahead, please.

[Host 1]

It could communicate a. Because you have so many people who have church hurt or just don't even love God's church. You know what I'm saying? So it could have communicated, like, oh, if he said, church is whack, then that affirms why I don't need to.

[Ty D.]

Go, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host 1]

And so I think I understand.

[Host 2]

Yeah, I understand, too.

[Ty D.]

But, yeah, yeah, go. I should be in school.

[Host 1]

I just saw the white sleeve, and it was so noticeable, I could not call on you.

[Ty D.]

And to that, I would like to say I didn't know my voice was that powerful. I've said Way more things that had to do with. Yeah, your Instagram live is good. All that stuff that Jesus, hallelujah, be saved, get delivered. I said way more of that. If any of them people was to take Ty's word for it like that, they'd have been saved by them. If they just heard me say something on the Breakfast Club and say, see, I knew what Ty said it. I said a billion things before this moment. If I was that influential in their lives, they would have been changed. So that's a decision they already made within themselves. If they take it as confirmation, they can look at a movie and take it as confirmation. If you already set your heart against God, anything will confirm it. And if you already set your heart towards God, everything confirms it as well. Church hurt is people hurt. Nobody says they have Target hurt. Nobody say they got Walmart hurt or Dunkin Donuts hurt. Nobody says that. It's just the church because of what we experience. Expect, you know, the place to be and all that stuff. But it's just another reason to say to me now, if you have church hurt, you don't want to go to that specific fellowship anymore. I understand that. But to say I've been hurting the church, I ain't going back God. Yeah. To make that a God complex. You have a God complex. That's not.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Because often times people. People don't want to admit that they cool on God, so it's just way more convenient to just blame the church.

[Ty D.]

There are people who. There are people who I know who've had opera, who've had malpractice from doctors and still go to doctors when they get hurt.

[Host 2]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ty D.]

I mean, who have operation. It's been malpractice could legit sue. But still the next time you hurt, you went to the doctors. So it's like, is it Dr. Hurt? Is. Does that exist? I mean, we just. I only hear church hurt in the context of church.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Ty D.]

I don't hear industry hurt, gospel music hurt, hip hop hurt, street hurt.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Ty D.]

Hood hurt. We don't hear none of that.

[Host 2]

What I was just going to say was, I think ultimately what I just heard you do is just you were critiquing all the ways in which we can do the do church flesh flesh, do church in the flesh. You know what I'm saying? Which I do think that the church should have. We should critique each other in healthy ways. Right. Because we should not be manufactured. Like your sermon should be led by the Holy Spirit. It shouldn't be led because you want to raise Money.

[Ty D.]

Right?

[Host 2]

And so I think. I do think that sometimes we can create systems in the church, kind of how they do in Fortune 500 companies, and it cannot be spear led. And I think that's honorable. You know what I'm saying?

[Ty D.]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Amen.

[Ty D.]

And how much? And I'm gonna be very blunt. Cause I'm with my family. This is how I talk when I'm comfortable. How much should we care about what other churches are doing or other? Because I think every church should have their own blueprint and fingerprint. When Paul wrote to Ephesus, that's Ephesians, they all had same God, but different leans.

[Host 2]

This is a great question.

[Ty D.]

You understand what I'm saying?

[Host 1]

Y.

[Ty D.]

So how much should we talk about how Corinth is doing it if we're Ephesus?

[Host 2]

So here's the thing.

[Ty D.]

Okay, good.

[Host 2]

I love this question. I love this question so much. Because every time I go on TikTok, I see people talking about my church. Cause I go to 2819 Philip Anthony Mitchell church.

[Ty D.]

My dude.

[Host 2]

It's like, y' all talk about my church more than you talk about your own. And I think one of the reasons why is because, one, it's profitable to talk about churches that are popular.

[Host 1]

Okay?

[Host 2]

It gets you attention. It gets you yada, yada, yada. But I don't think that. I think sometimes the global church starts to, like. Like, we. We try to treat the global church how we should treat the local church. And I just don't think we should do that. When Paul wrote Timothy in Ephesus, he didn't write Paul, Timothy in Ephesus to worry about what was going on in Philippi, right? He said, watch out for false teachers in your church. And I think one of the biggest problems with the Christian church right now is that we're cons. We're more concerned about the global church than we are our local community. And that's why we're not making disciples. We're just making videos.

[Ty D.]

I love that.

[Host 2]

And so I. I think that's one of my. My biggest critiques. And I think if everybody's just trying to figure out, how does God want me to be a disciple in my local community, make disciples in my local community, how he wants to meet a pastor. You know what I'm saying? I'm not saying you can't be blessed by other churches, of course, but I'm saying, like, God came to establish the church in local context, and of course, we're the global church. But I just kind of think that people just Be.

[Host 1]

Can you define global? What you mean?

[Host 2]

What I mean is like.

[Host 1]

Like, I think global. I think the world.

[Host 2]

Yeah, the world. I think a church in Africa, if they're preaching the gospel in spirit, they are united with a church in Philly who preaching the gospel. We are all a part of the global church. Right? But I think God wants us to do life in our local community. He wants us to have elders, pastors, deacons. You know what I'm saying? Leadership. He wants us. I. I would even say. I would.

[Host 1]

Go ahead.

[Host 2]

I would even say.

[Ty D.]

I would.

[Host 2]

I would not recommend people listening to prophecies. Pray from everybody around the world. It's like, man. Like, God has established his church for protection.

[Ty D.]

A to the man.

[Host 2]

It's like, stop listening to people.

[Ty D.]

You don't do life with A to the man.

[Host 2]

I just. I just.

[Host 1]

Can you call on me?

[Host 2]

Yo, go ahead, babe.

[Ty D.]

Okay, so we.

[Host 1]

We had a conversation. Gotta be vague. With someone who was. Because I' speak directly to leadership and how that drives the way churches can function. Sometimes they were talking about something that they are leading and starting and curating and cultivating, but all of their conversation around it was to do what they saw being done.

[Ty D.]

Okay.

[Host 1]

And I asked the question. I said, have you fasted? Have you prayed? And they were like, no. And I was like, you have. I was like, I think it would be helpful to fast and pray so you have direct vision from God that you implement. And I think some of the issue is covetousness. I think if that's the secret sin.

[Host 2]

Beneath a lot of this E. Coli, I don't have to get speaking in tongues, so I gotta make up.

[Host 1]

If you see that this pastor's sermons hit a certain kind of way, then you start preaching. Like, if you see that his congregation is growing in a certain kind of way, you try to figure out those strategies. All the while, you're neglecting getting direct vision from God for your church.

[Host 2]

Come on now.

[Host 1]

For your family, for your ministry, for your podcast. And so I think it goes back to the sitting and to the pace where it's like, just sit. Even Paul. It's like, do y' all realize that Paul went blind, got his vision, and then went to Arabia for three years before he ever did anything? Come on.

[Host 2]

Talk to his pretty face. Sit.

[Host 1]

Get vision from God. And then I think the Lord blesses that. And blessing may not mean that you have a megachurch. It just might mean you have 50 people who are actually saved. Come on. That's all.

[Host 2]

Talk about it.

[Ty D.]

And that, to me, when you see what works for another church, and then you just automatically try to do it, like that's God's new vision or word for your life is whack.

[Host 1]

Yeah, I agree.

[Ty D.]

And you. Everybody going to preach love in February? Did God say. I mean, yo, you understand what I'm saying?

[Host 2]

We said all that to say this.

[Ty D.]

We.

[Host 2]

We know you said you could do things better, but we heard. We. We understood. Amen.

[Ty D.]

Amen. So let me ask y' all something. I know what y'. All. I know what y' all think, but we rocking right now. I spoke this Sunday at the church. I was wanting to hear what y' all think about it. I'm down for correction or whatever. I said, I'm starting to. I feel like I'm starting to see the beginning of the end. I feel like from one person's death last week or a couple weeks ago, we see this disruption and turbulence both in politics and religion. I don't know if this has happened like this maybe since mlk. I don't know where a person's death shakes both. What I mean shakes both is confusion, dissension, division, anger, strife, malice, prejudice, race. In church and religion and in politics, you start. You seeing this turbulence. It's like, whoa. And I think that's just the beginning. I think something else going here, and it's going to shake it both more. And then I think someone is going to come and stop the shaking for the politics. Who's the Antichrist? One world government. Hey, y'. All. He's going to stop the shaking. Somebody going to come and stop the turbulence for the religious one faith, interfaith, whatever that's going to be. And that's going to be the false prophet. I feel like these are the beginning, you know, birth pangs of the red carpet being rolled out for the Antichrist and the false prophet being that both pillars have been, like, starting to shake a little bit. What do y'.

[Host 1]

All.

[Ty D.]

What y'. All feel about that? Ooh. Oh, I'm sorry. Cause I.

[Host 1]

First.

[Host 2]

You can go first. I got a lot of.

[Ty D.]

You do.

[Host 2]

My main stuff is about false prophets, but.

[Ty D.]

Oh, yeah, yeah, I'm with you.

[Host 1]

I think I'm always, like, wondering, like, man, is what we're going through in 20, 25 different than what the Christians were going through in Rome? You know, like, nobody's being hung up on crosses or hung up on sticks and lit on fire, yet at the same time, there's something dark about. To me, it feels like I was like. I feel like there's a Mass division happening and even a Mass, not even just simply within the church, but also, I can't explain it. It just feels dark in a way. And I want Jesus to come back. They said he was supposed to come back today and he did not show.

[Ty D.]

Up, up.

[Host 1]

And so I'm just saying marriage still got time.

[Ty D.]

Ain't that late for me, for me, for me.

[Host 2]

So I'm a person who loves studying history. Okay, so just studying history, all history, church history. You know, I'm an. I'm an apologist. I'm an evangelist.

[Ty D.]

Love it.

[Host 2]

And so one of the things I've done in my line of ministry and work of just studying like cult leaders, false religions or whatever, and when I read about these times, there's times in super far history, past history, where people thought the end was near. I mean, and so in a lot of ways they had more of a.

[Ty D.]

Case like Hitler's time or something like that.

[Host 2]

Hitler's time. Or like think about Charles Tate Russell, right? The man who started the Jehovah's Witnesses doctrine. He was in 18. In 1860. Something. Yeah, right. And so he was on your page.

[Ty D.]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

So he was a millionaire. He owned a fleet of clothing stores. He sold all his clothing stores. He published a religious journal called the Monthly Watchtower of Christ's Presence. And he grew up. So he became a very popular false teacher really, really fast in America to the point where people thought he was the Antichrist. Not only that, he predicted that the world would end. And so the year that he predicted worldwide, and guess What? World War I broke out.

[Ty D.]

And so not only that version of the world ended. Yes.

[Host 2]

So you had famine all over the streets.

[Ty D.]

Okay, okay.

[Host 2]

You had people poor.

[Ty D.]

Okay.

[Host 2]

And so a lot of. So what people don't know is that's the year that over a million Christians, over a million Jehovah's Witnesses left the Jehovah's Witness faith because of. Because when. When war was over, the world didn't come to an end. So he was like, he's a false prophet.

[Ty D.]

Right.

[Host 2]

But then they had another resurgence or whatever. And so there has been times in history where they. Where false prophets rose up, TR Became really, really popular, and the world was in shambles. Think about, like, our, like. Like our country being in war. Like war. And. But let me say this. I'm not saying that that's not evidence that God is not about to return 100%. I'm just saying that I think in this fallen world, sometimes 100%, sometimes we can. We can not all the way. Experientially know what past history. Past people in past history went through.

[Ty D.]

Gotcha.

[Host 2]

And so, for me, I just want to just honor the word mark and Matthew, it says, no man know the day or the hour.

[Ty D.]

100.

[Host 2]

That's all.

[Ty D.]

100.

[Host 1]

Amen.

[Ty D.]

Amen to that.

[Host 1]

I think what I would add is that I'm not disagreeing. Well, you think I'm disagreeing?

[Host 2]

No, I don't think you disagree. I think I know what you're saying. No, I think I know what you're gonna say, because, like I said.

[Ty D.]

I don't want there to be no turmoil.

[Host 2]

No, you not.

[Ty D.]

Come on. No, you didn't say that. Go ahead.

[Host 1]

You don't have to do that on camera. I would say, I think the primary difference between now and then is technology.

[Ty D.]

Well, I was gonna go there, so I'm glad you did.

[Host 1]

Technology has.

[Host 2]

But I got something else to say.

[Host 1]

Let her cook. Let her cook. Technology has expedited the deceit. Technology gives more room and more like. We have never seen these many, many prophets with veils in our life. But because all you got to do is have a phone, it means that deceit and deception is able to expede. Like, it's able to. Like that. That is a. So to me, that is going to.

[Ty D.]

Speed up right now.

[Host 2]

That is something that I thought about, and I actually agree. I. I agree both. Both with y'.

[Host 1]

All.

[Ty D.]

Can I agree.

[Host 1]

I'm just adding the distinction.

[Ty D.]

Can I put it both together?

[Host 1]

I think, please.

[Ty D.]

If this is birth counseling, marriage counseling.

[Host 1]

You have.

[Ty D.]

You have had children. My wife has had children. Children. The first pain ain't the birth.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Ty D.]

The second, third, fourth, fifth one ain't the birth. You can have several contractions.

[Host 1]

That's great.

[Ty D.]

During. In the hour you conceive, but it's still not it.

[Host 1]

That's great.

[Ty D.]

So this could be one of the contractions. Yeah, but it still don't mean it's not on.

[Host 1]

We've been contracting for, like, 2,000 years.

[Ty D.]

This is the biggest baby. But also, I tried to put a.

[Host 2]

Butt on that burger also, too, I think. So this is another thing I'll say about. About that.

[Host 1]

Us starting off talking about music. Victory.

[Ty D.]

No, this is underneath it.

[Host 2]

I'm telling you. When you.

[Ty D.]

When you.

[Host 2]

When you come back with your wife, you actually just come over so we can just have conversations. Kick it.

[Ty D.]

This how we do.

[Host 2]

Because. Because.

[Ty D.]

Shout out to Shante. I love you, baby, so much. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Shout out to Shante.

[Ty D.]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Host 2]

I loved y', all. Y'.

[Ty D.]

All.

[Host 2]

Interview on. Was it the tbn? Tbn.

[Ty D.]

Oh, thank you, bro. Thank you, brother.

[Host 2]

Okay. But, yeah, I think sometimes we can get caught up. And I'm not saying you're doing this.

[Ty D.]

I got you, bro. I got you.

[Host 2]

Because I know y'.

[Ty D.]

All.

[Host 2]

But what I'm saying is what I see watching on social media is people looking at bad things to indicate the world we're in. And I think that. I think that can be one of the indicators. But I think when we start seeing revival, that's when. When we start seeing. Seeing God move. And like.

[Ty D.]

Like we're saying that too, though.

[Host 2]

But we are.

[Ty D.]

We're seeing that too.

[Host 2]

We are. We. So I. I've seen stuff in Australia, I've seen stuff in London or whatever, but I think we got it. Like, because the Bible says that, you know, Christ is not going to come back into. The gospel is preached throughout the four ends of the earth. And.

[Ty D.]

And that's what I'm saying.

[Host 2]

Technology is doing it. Technology is doing it. But I just.

[Ty D.]

Because people are not responding globally to use your word.

[Host 2]

But I. But one. I think. And people won't say I'm biased because I'm an evangelist.

[Ty D.]

Go for it.

[Host 2]

When I see an increase of evangelism and us not being so pigeonholed to the four walls of the church and us going out and making disciples, I agree. I think that's when real evangelism will happen. And I think God is raising up evangelists. And so I'm not saying I know the time of the day. I'm just saying.

[Host 1]

No, you're.

[Ty D.]

It's a sign. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host 1]

You're making sense.

[Ty D.]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host 1]

I do want to read a text that will also pivot to you. Is that. It's Matthew 24, 9, 14. It says, this is Jesus talking about the signs of the end of the age. Because we don't be just talking. There's text.

[Ty D.]

I love it.

[Host 1]

Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death. And you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake. And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. We see that in the air. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. We see that in the air. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. We see that in the air. Matthew 24, verse 13. But the one who endures, meaning it's going to be difficult to the end, will be saved. You have a song called Anyhow that I love.

[Ty D.]

It's an endurance song.

[Host 1]

Yes.

[Ty D.]

Yes.

[Host 1]

And I love it because I am an advocate for songs that give language to suffering and that help you to identify. Like, nah, this is hard. This hurts. But I gotta endure.

[Ty D.]

God just talk about that. Yeah. I mean, I wrote that during the pandemic. And I just believe that God just don't always snatch you out the fire. Sometimes he get in it with you. You understand what I'm saying? He didn't. He could have. It would have been just as miraculous for the Hebrew boys to walk out the or for the fire to stop. He didn't stop it. So there are some things we're just going to have to endure. And I love the scripture. I'm keep going back to the 10 lepers.

[Host 2]

Y'.

[Ty D.]

All. Y' all gonna realize during this interview, I only know, like, three scriptures. He looks at them and he says, says, go show yourselves to the priest. The Bibles. These three words, I, I, I, I love. As they went, they were healed. He spoke the word. They weren't healed on the spot. It insinuates every step led to more healing, more breakthrough, more deliverance. Like the Michael Jackson Billie Jean video. I'm sorry, the light sight letter. Yeah. Anyway, stay focus. That creativity coming out as you go. Things heal. We wait to be healed, to go. You have to learn to walk while still suffering, while still bleeding, while still leprous. You have to learn to be obedient and endure while still unfinished. What I mean by unfinished is God creates. The first day is good. Second day is good. Third day is good. Fourth day is good. Fifth day is good. Sixth day is very good. Seventh day, he rested yo after every day. He said, it's good, but it wasn't done. Yeah, it wasn't done, but he said it was good. So I got to learn to look at a day that's not done and say, it's good right now. That's contentment. That's patience. Literally, that's trust. That's the language of anyhow, you know what I mean? I didn't clean my house today, but I did that kitchen. It ain't all done, but it's all good.

[Host 2]

That's good.

[Ty D.]

So that's what I wanted to convey through anyhow. It's not all good. It's not all done. It's good right now. Find a place where you could say, this is good if it's good for me that I was afflicted, if I learned to be content in all things. Find a space where you can look at where you are and say, you know what? It's good. He's good. So that song should write a song called It's Good. Say it again.

[Host 2]

You should write a song called It's.

[Ty D.]

Good only if Jackie feature with you. You slid on your album. Your Blameless Ain't Nothing to play With. You slid on that album. Kudos to Jackie. Kudos. I love your album, though. Kudos. Oh, most of you, thank you.

[Host 2]

No, but I will say a song with both of y' all would be crazy.

[Ty D.]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I love that, too, because I think we often skip the suffering and go to the celebration or skip the. That's. That's. That's. That's where, you know, I was. I'm doing a tour. It's called We Outside. Right. And my. My initial approach to the. To the. To the theme We Outside is, man, the real church is activated outside the four walls. Patience, love, all the fruit of the spirit. Well, of course, in dealing with people within the four walls, yes. But for the most part, forgiveness and all that, it happens outside. So the real church is really outside. So I went to the scripture, where I think it's Hebrews, and it says, you know, the land was sacrificed. The land was sacrificed. The blood was sacrificed, was poured inside, but the lamb was sacrificed outside, like Jesus. But let's go where Jesus is outside. Let's go where he is, where he was, where the suffering was. I was like, whoa. I don't know if I want to call this We Outside now, because it's saying, get out there and suffer. Get out there and forgive. Get out there and be patient. Get out there and activate Long Suffering. Thank God it ain't nails and thorns, but it's emotional nails and thorns. And we almost would rather have physical ones because we're so committed to ourselves and our feelings. But get out there and forgive. Get out there and love. Get out there and be patient. Get out there and be content. Get out there and serve. Get out there and worship. Get out there and praise. It ain't going to be comfortable. Your flesh going to hate everything about it. But if you suffer, well, you'll rain.

[Host 2]

Well, man, that's good.

[Ty D.]

Amen.

[Host 1]

I mean, what else is there to say? That's the benediction and the doctor.

[Host 2]

I'm glad you. I'm glad you took it in this direction. That was a great, great conversation.

[Ty D.]

I am just getting started with my wife. When my wife we come back, we are going to chop it up with such a serious emerald knives.

[Host 1]

Y'. All. Check out all the things Time tribute go to the We Outside tour. I think it's you. Kiara and Mike talk.

[Host 2]

Yes.

[Ty D.]

Transformation Church. And I got some newcomers on there, Anthony and Bri Trilla. She gonna be in your shadows. She's a rap. She a hip hop artist, too. Always to give, you know, space for new people. So it's going to be amazing coming to a city near you this fall. Thank y' all for the love.

[Host 1]

Thank you. Love you.

[Ty D.]

Bye.

[Host 1]

With the Perrys is produced by the Perrys with support from Amanda reed and Channing McBride. Video recording and audio production by Matthew Baxter and Xavier Fairley, edited by the team at Tread Lively, artwork by Hop and music by Swoop. Thank you for listening. Now go with God.

[Ty D.]

Ra.