Mexico’s ‘little old lady killer’

Summary

Podcast Summary: Witness History

Episode: Mexico’s ‘Little Old Lady Killer’
Host: Mike Lanchin (Newsroom)
Guest: Dr. Feggy Ostrosky
Original Air Date: July 20, 2026
Duration: 9 minutes (content segment)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Witness History examines the chilling case of Juana Barraza—a former professional wrestler who became Mexico’s most prolific female serial killer, known as the "Little Old Lady Killer" ("La Mata Viejitas"). Through an interview with renowned neuropsychologist Dr. Feggy Ostrosky, listeners are taken inside the investigation and psychological assessment of Barraza following her conviction in 2008 for murdering at least 11 elderly women. The episode explores connections between childhood trauma, brain abnormalities, and violent crime, offering rare insight into the psychology of a serial killer.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Background of the Crimes

• Conviction: On March 31, 2008, Juana Barraza was convicted of killing at least 11 elderly women across eight years and sentenced to over 700 years in prison ([00:55]).
• Modus Operandi: Victims were elderly women living alone, choked with cords, and there were no signs of forced entry—indicating victims willingly let Barraza in ([03:19]).

Encountering ‘La Mata Viejitas’

• First Impressions:
  • Dr. Ostrosky describes Barraza’s “penetrating stare” and the intimidating atmosphere during their initial meetings.
  • “Her eyes were really like seeing through you. … It was like a game of power.” – Dr. Ostrosky ([01:23], [01:52])
• Interview Approach:
  • Dr. Ostrosky reveals her process as a neuroscientist interested in the link between brain and behavior:
    • "This is a process that how she was raised. And there are many causes why you do violent behavior. You could have some brain abnormalities..." – Dr. Ostrosky ([02:05])
  • She quickly confirms Barraza’s awareness of her actions:
    • “At that moment she said, yes, yes, I killed that woman.” – Dr. Ostrosky ([05:09])
    • When asked about the morality of her crimes, Barraza acknowledges: “Oh, yes, yes, it’s bad. … Because nobody has the right to take the life of another one.” ([05:32])

Psychological Insights

• Psychopathy Indicators: Dr. Ostrosky notes Barraza’s detachment and coldness, traits she associates with psychopathy:
  • “You know, you know what’s right or wrong, but that doesn’t inform you emotionally, that doesn’t guide your behavior.” – Dr. Ostrosky ([05:47])
• Barraza’s Childhood:
  • Barraza endured extreme abuse: her mother, an alcoholic, exchanged her to a man for alcohol when she was a child. Barraza was raped, became pregnant at 13, and later cared for both her child and younger siblings ([06:46]).
  • “The only good figure in my life was my stepfather.” – Juana Barraza, as recalled by Dr. Ostrosky ([07:13])
• Impact on Dr. Ostrosky:
  • The psychological toll was apparent:
    • “Of course. I couldn’t sleep.” – Dr. Ostrosky ([07:27])
• End of Relationship:
  • Trust was broken when Dr. Ostrosky interviewed Barraza's family without her consent:
    • “Barrasa was furious and told her never to come back.” ([07:29])

Scientific Findings & Broader Lessons

• Brain Findings:
  • Barraza’s brain had an overactive frontal lobe—potentially contributing to her violent behavior ([08:20]).
• Societal Implications:
  • Dr. Ostrosky emphasizes the importance of understanding childhood abuse as a predictor of later violence, advocating for prevention rather than only punishment:
    • “If you just put Juana in the jail or people like her, that’s not the way that society will function.” ([08:48])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Game of Power:
  “It was like a gain of power, a game of power.” – Dr. Ostrosky ([01:50])

• On Psychopathy:
  “You know what’s right or wrong, but that doesn’t guide your behavior.” ([05:47])

• On Parental Hatred:
  “She said, yes, I hate her. She was terrible. The only good figure in my life was my stepfather.” – Juana Barraza (via Dr. Ostrosky, [07:13])

• On Prevention:
  “It doesn’t change anything, but it just helps to understand what is happening in the brain and in the behavior of people who suffer abuse when they are small and how these genesis of killing arise.” – Dr. Ostrosky ([08:28])

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Important Timestamps

• 00:55 – Introduction to Juana Barraza’s sentencing and background
• 01:23–02:05 – Dr. Ostrosky’s first impressions of Barraza
• 02:05–02:38 – Discussion on psychological origins of violent behavior
• 03:19 – Description of crime pattern
• 04:44 – Dr. Ostrosky rushes to meet Barraza in jail
• 05:09–05:45 – Barraza’s confession and Dr. Ostrosky’s probing
• 06:18–06:42 – Emotional detachment and interaction dynamics
• 06:46–07:13 – Barraza’s account of her childhood and family
• 08:20–08:48 – Findings about Barraza’s brain and discussion of prevention

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Tone & Language

• The conversation remains clinical and objective, with Dr. Ostrosky displaying professional empathy but also candor about her own emotional reactions.
• The host, Mike Lanchin, guides the narrative with respectful curiosity, focusing on extracting psychological and societal meaning from the case.

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Conclusion

This episode offers a sobering look at how extreme childhood trauma, combined with biological factors, can contribute to violent criminal behavior. Through Dr. Ostrosky’s firsthand account, listeners are given rare access to the psychology of both the profiler and the profiled, prompting reflection on the cycles of abuse and the importance of early intervention.

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For further listening: The podcast suggests exploring other episodes covering dramatic moments in history, like the uncovering of the Unabomber or the 1968 Mexico City student massacre.

Transcript

[A]

Hello and welcome to Witness History from the BBC World Service. If you're already a regular listener, you can skip ahead a bit to get to today's story, but if you're new here, welcome along. We're the daily podcast that takes you back to moments from history with the people who were there. Episodes are just nine minutes long, so if that sounds like something that should be part of your daily listening, then make sure you subscribe and turn on your push notifications for wherever you get your BBC podcasts so you never miss an episode. Today we're going to Mexico and the disturbing story of the former female wrestler who became the country's most prolific serial killer in 2021. Mike Lanchin spoke to the neuropsychologist who was asked to find out why she had committed her crimes.

[B]

On March 31, 2008, a court in Mexic City convicted Juana Barraza for the killing of at least 11 elderly women over a period of eight years. She was sentenced to more than 700 years in jail. But what drove her to carry out such shocking crimes? I'd been speaking to someone who spent hours interviewing the woman known as the Little Old Lady Killer, or Mata Vijitas.

[C]

You check the eyes and you can see the soul of the person, or you can try to understand the soul. But her eyes were really like seeing through you.

[B]

A penetrating stare.

[C]

Right. I was afraid a little bit. And she was sitting in front of me and I was trying to be nice and she was trying to be nice with me. But behind both of us is what are you thinking and who are you? It was like a gain of power,

[B]

a game of power.

[C]

Right?

[B]

That's Dr. Feggy Ostrosky. She had the unenviable task of trying to delve into the mind of the 48 year old former professional wrestler Juana Barrasa to try to work out just what had turned her into a serial killer.

[C]

I'm a neuropsychologist, a neuroscientist, and I want to know the brain, behavior, relationship. So I don't think that Juana just wake up in the morning and said, oh, I'm bored. What I'm going to do today and I'm going to just go and kill old ladies. This is a process that how she was raised. And there are many causes why you do violent behavior. You could have some brain abnormalities that if we find out that could help to treat her.

[B]

Do you think you ever got to really know her, doctor?

[C]

No, I think I need to. I knew one important part of her and, but I think that a lot of things I didn't find out.

[B]

It was back in 2005 that Dr. Ostroski had first got a call from Mexico City's mayor. There'd been a series of murders of elderly women in the capital dating back seven years. All had been killed in a similar fashion in their homes. The mayor wanted to know if Dr. Ostroski thought that there might be a link between the cases. Could there be a serial killer at large?

[C]

There was a pattern. They were old age, they live alone, they were choked with cords, and they didn't find that the door was forced. So somebody let the person who was doing that in.

[B]

The police were scrabbling for leads. One witness said they'd seen a large woman leaving one of the murder scenes. Another thought they'd spotted two people. It was all quite haphazard. What did you think, doctor? Did you think they were going down the wrong road?

[C]

Well, they were trying, you know, we were lost. They were trying. They were functioning according to the information that they have from witnesses. I was lost also.

[B]

By late 2005, there were now more than a dozen unsolved murders of elderly women in the capital, and still no sign of an arrest. Then, in January 2006, the police got a lucky breakthrough. A suspect was caught fleeing the home of an 82 year old woman who'd been strangled with a stethoscope. The suspect was identified as the former female wrestler Juana Barrasa, known in fighting circles as La dama del Silencio, the lady of silence. Dr. Ostroski was out of town at a wedding. She rushed back to the capitol and went straight to the jail.

[C]

I said, give me an office where I can interview her in an open space. I was afraid a little bit.

[B]

And what did she look like? What was your first impression of her?

[C]

She was a big woman. She has like. The hair was short, but it was painted red.

[B]

When you sat down with her on that first day, how did you start the conversation?

[C]

I said, hi, I'm Dr. Ostroski and I'm here to talk to you. So that's how we start to talk. And I said, well, you are here because they said that you killed somebody. And at that moment she said, yes, yes, I killed that woman. And then I said, oh, that's interesting. I said, well, so is it bad that what you did, I want to see her sense of it's wrong or right what you're doing. And she said, oh, yes, yes, it's bad. And I said, why is it bad? She said, because nobody has the right to take the life of another one.

[B]

What did that tell you about her?

[C]

It's like what I knew about the mind of a psychopath. You know, you know what's right or wrong, but that doesn't inform you emotionally, that doesn't guide your behavior.

[B]

That first day, the two women spent several hours together, during which time Barassa admitted to two other murders, though she later retracted the confession. From then on, Dr. Ostroski began visiting her every day, asking her questions about other murders, about her family, about her childhood.

[C]

You know, she just like, sort of smiled a little bit when she was telling me her family history, but there was not emotion. She was really detached and really cold. She once said, you know, I like you because you are really bossy and you are tough like me. So I like you. And I said, well, I like you also, Juana. So thank you.

[B]

And did you like her, Doctor?

[C]

I did. I did like her.

[B]

And Barasa, for her part, seemed to trust Dr. Ostrosky. She told the doctor how her alcoholic and abusive mother had given her away to a man in exchange for drinking. The man got Barasa pregnant, although she was still only 13 years old. She was sent back to live with her mother and then had to look after her younger siblings as well as her own baby. Did you ask her whether she hated her mother?

[C]

Oh, yes.

[B]

And what did she say?

[C]

She said, yes, I hate her. She was terrible. The only good figure in my life was my stepfather.

[B]

That must have affected you, having to listen to all her, to everything she was telling you.

[C]

Oh, of course. I couldn't sleep.

[B]

They spent almost two weeks together, Dr. Ostrovsky visiting her in jail most days. But the trust that she'd built up with Barassa suddenly disappeared. Dr. Ostrovsky had gone to see Barasa's half sister and daughter without telling her. And when she saw her the next day, Barrasa was furious and told her never to come back. Two years later, in the spring of 2008, Juana Barrasa was found guilty of on 11 separate counts of murder and sentenced to 759 years in jail. In her report, Dr. Ostroski concluded that the abuse suffered by Juana Barrasa at the hands of her mother had most likely led her to commit the murders. Dr. Ostroski also discovered that Barrasa's brain had an overactive frontal lobe, another possible reason for her violent behaviour. So do you think it actually made any difference, being able to say why she might have committed those murders?

[C]

Well, it doesn't change anything, but it just helps to understand what is happening in the brain and in the behavior of people who suffer abuse when they are small and how these genesis of killing arise. Because that's what I'm doing now. I work on prevention programs. If you just put Juana in the jail or people like her, that's not the way that society will function.

[B]

Dr. Ostroski never went to see Juana Barraza again, and she doubts she ever will.

[A]

Juana Barraza remains in jail in Mexico. She's 68 and is likely to spend the rest of her life in prison. Dr. Fegi Ostroski was speaking to Mike Lanchin in 2021 from Mexico City for Witness History. Thanks for listening. If you found this interesting, then there are some others in our archive that you might like to listen to, including the woman who uncovered the identity of the unabomber in the 1990s. Or learn about the 1968 Mexico City massacre where armed forces opened fire on student protesters. You can find those episodes in the Witness History feed where wherever you get your BBC podcasts. A moment in time captured by what

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