When Krishna Menon met Stalin

Summary

Witness History – “When Krishna Menon met Stalin”

Date: May 20, 2026
Host: Rena Stanton Sharma
Podcast: Witness History (BBC World Service)
Duration: ~9 minutes

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Episode Overview

This episode of Witness History transports listeners to the winter of 1953, mere weeks before Joseph Stalin’s death, as the controversial Indian diplomat V.K. Krishna Menon secures a rare audience with the Soviet ruler. Using evocative BBC archive audio, the episode investigates Menon’s impressions of Stalin and the political complexities of their meeting, offering a rare window onto the post-colonial, early Cold War world through direct testimony intertwined with historical context.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Krishna Menon’s First Impressions of Stalin

• Appearance vs. Image
  • Menon is surprised by Stalin’s stature, having pictured him as “a sort of six footer” because of “statues and pictures… all over the land.”
  • Quote:

    "Curiously enough, my very first impression was how short he was... But he was a very handsome person and altogether very impressive."
    – V.K. Krishna Menon [00:59]

• Menon highlights the psychological dominance of Stalin, despite his physical ordinariness.

Introducing the Sombre Porcupine

• Controversial Figure:
  • Menon, a political heavyweight in India’s independence, is characterized as divisive—at times seen as visionary and at others, “one of the most reviled figures of the Cold War era.”
  • His eccentricities are noted: reportedly teetotal, vegetarian, obsessed with tea, and prone to mood disorders.
• Connection to Nehru:
  • Close advisor to Jawaharlal Nehru; appointed India’s first High Commissioner in the UK.
• Notable Quote:

  "A lover reportedly described him as a sombre porcupine with the potential to evolve into a human demon."
  – Rena Stanton Sharma [03:18]

The Context of the Stalin Meeting

• A Rare Audience:
  • As Menon recounts, only a few ambassadors ever met Stalin face to face. Menon waited five months after presenting his credentials before being granted an audience.
  • Quote:

    "The number of ambassadors Stalin had seen could be counted on the fingers of one hand... I waited for about five months, and on 16 February, I was suddenly informed that Stalin would be glad to see me the next day."
    – V.K. Krishna Menon [04:24]

The Encounter: Political Discussion and Symbolism

• Dialogue Content:
  • Stalin asks about India’s army and languages; Menon describes India’s newly independent foreign policy.
• Stalin’s Power and Methods:
  • Menon observes Stalin’s political cunning, maintaining absolute control by playing factions against each other and orchestrating purges:

    "He played off one against the other. The armed forces, the party, the bureaucracy... and with his occasional purges... kept himself in power, in absolute power."
    – Menon [05:10]

• On Stalin’s Character:
  • Despite his reputation, Menon describes Stalin as neither “brutal” nor “coarse,” but rather “refined,” though “strong to the point of ruthlessness.”
• Wolf Parable & Doodles:
  • Stalin shares a parable:

    "Our peasant is a simple man, but wise. When he sees a wolf, he shoots it. He doesn't preach morals to the wolf, he shoots it. And the wolf knows it and behaves accordingly."
    – Stalin, as quoted by Menon [06:09]

  • Menon notices Stalin doodling wolves of various sizes during their conversation—a vivid, almost theatrical touch that underscores Stalin’s philosophy.

Aftermath and Legacy

• Menon’s Political Fate:
  • Marked as a political “lone wolf” after his return to India.
• Stalin’s Death:
  • Menon describes Stalin as seeming “perfectly fit” during their meeting. Within weeks, Stalin died of a cerebral hemorrhage:

    "When I returned to the embassy, then all the world's pressmen... asked me what Stalin looked like. I said, Stalin looked perfectly fit... He was taken ill on 28 February, and he was dead on 5 March."
    – Menon [07:44]

• Stalin’s Legacy:
  • Covered both the reverence and fear inspired by Stalin, with the nation’s tributes contrasting with celebrations of his demise elsewhere.
• Menon’s Later Years:
  • Served as India’s Defence Minister; resigned after the 1962 border defeat by China. Died in 1974.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On First Impressions:

  "Curiously enough, my very first impression was how short he was... But he was a very handsome person and altogether very impressive."
  – Menon [00:59]

• On Stalin’s Political Method:

  "He played off one against the other. The armed forces, the party, the bureaucracy... occasional purges..."
  – Menon [05:10]

• On Stalin’s Personality:

  "I wouldn't say brutal and certainly not coarse... his manners were almost refined... but strong to the point of ruthlessness."
  – Menon [06:09]

• Wolf Parable:

  "Our peasant is a simple man, but wise. When he sees a wolf, he shoots it... The wolf knows it and behaves accordingly."
  – Stalin, as told by Menon [06:09]

• On Stalin’s Health:

  "He looked perfectly fit... That was on 17 February. He was taken ill on 28 February, and he was dead on 5 March."
  – Menon [07:44]

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Important Timestamps

• 00:59 – Menon’s first impression of Stalin
• 02:34–03:18 – Menon’s career and reputation; excerpt of Nehru’s independence speech
• 04:24 – How Menon secured the rare interview with Stalin
• 05:10 – Stalin’s leadership style described
• 06:09 – Stalin’s “wolf” parable and doodles
• 07:44 – Reflections on Stalin’s health shortly before his death
• 08:26 – Stalin’s death and public reaction; Menon’s later career

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Tone & Style

The episode is contemplative, richly detailed, and occasionally wry—balancing archival quotations with succinct narration. Listeners encounter both the gravitas and the peculiarity of power, as seen through Menon’s dry, incisive recollections and Rena Stanton Sharma’s measured storytelling.

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Summary

This episode blends vivid personal recollection with incisive historical analysis, bringing to life a unique and rarely documented moment between two figures who profoundly influenced the destinies of their respective nations and the world order. The storytelling is accessible, brisk, and thought-provoking—providing context for the personalities behind iconic political moments.

Transcript

[Rena Stanton Sharma]

Hi, this is the Witness History podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Rena Stanton Sharma. If you've been here before, you can skip the next few seconds. We're the podcast that brings history to life by hearing from those who were there using Incredible Archive. Episodes are just nine minutes long and come out every weekday. If that appeals to you, why not subscribe and turn your push notifications on so you never miss an episode. For the fascinating story I've got for you today, I'm taking you back to 1953, when an Indian diplomat nicknamed the Sombre porcupine, met Stalin, one of the most controversial figures of the 20th century. We've discovered a scratchy tape in the BBC archives about the meeting, which took place just weeks before Stalin's death.

[Vinyalil Krishnan Krishnamenon]

Curiously enough, my very first impression was how short he was, because I had regarded him as a sort of six footer, to judge by these statues and pictures which were all over the land in those days. But I thought he was rather of mediocre height, or probably rather below mediocre height. But he was a very handsome person and altogether very impressive.

[Rena Stanton Sharma]

That's Vinyalil Krishnan Krishnamenon, a key figure in India's fight for independence from British rule, recalling his impressions of the Soviet Union's leader in a 1967 interview with Mark Tully, known as the BBC's Voice of India. Like Stalin, Menon was a polarising force. He was described as one of the most reviled figures of the Cold War era, the period of political rivalry between the United States and the Soviet Union after World War II. But others saw him as a visionary who defended India's sovereignty with unmatched intensity. Born in Kerala, South India, Menon moved to England in 1924 and studied law and political science. He reportedly drank up to 30 cups of tea a day, was teetotal and a vegetarian, eating only toast, buns and biscuits. Menon was close to Jawaharlal Nehru, who'd become independent India's first prime minister.

[Vinyalil Krishnan Krishnamenon]

At the stroke of the midnight hour, when the world sleeps, India will awake to life and freedom.

[Rena Stanton Sharma]

A famous line from Nehru's tryst with dynasty speech from August 1947 signaled the ending of the largest empire in history. Nehru appointed Menon as India's first High Commissioner in the uk.

[Vinyalil Krishnan Krishnamenon]

At London's India House, High Commissioner Krishna Menon swears allegiance to the newly born Republic of India. I, viral Krishnan Krishna Menon, solemnly affirm that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the constitution of India as by law established.

[Rena Stanton Sharma]

The historic adoption of India's constitution in 1950, replaced the British monarch and Nehru became the new nation's prime minister. Menon was seen as prickly and difficult to work with. A lover reportedly described him as a sombre porcupine with the potential to evolve into a human demon. He would suffer from bouts of depression and mania and was dependent on sedatives. In 1952, he returned to India where he represented the country at the United Nations General Assembly. Despite championing world peace at the UN, he was accused of being pro communist, having endorsed the Soviets. Time magazine characterized him as venomous, violently anti American and an unpleasant mischief maker. And the Soviets thought he was in the hands of the British. Nevertheless, Stalin met with Menon, who explained the events leading up to that moment at the Kremlin.

[Vinyalil Krishnan Krishnamenon]

Mr. Menon, it was difficult even for an ambassador to get an interview with Stalin. Why were you called for an interview with him on the 17th of February 1953? Oh, yes, of course, it was difficult, really. The number of ambassadors Stalin had seen could be counted on the fingers of one hand. But as soon as I presented my credentials, I said that if I had an opportunity, I'd like to pay my respects to Marshall Stalin. That was in October. I waited for about five months, and on 16 February, I was suddenly informed that Stalin would be glad to see me the next day.

[Rena Stanton Sharma]

Stalin asked Menon about India's many languages, the size of its army, and listened as Menon outlined his country's foreign policy.

[Vinyalil Krishnan Krishnamenon]

I must say I was very much impressed by him. Of course, I was in a mood to be impressed by him because he was the one man who counted in the Soviet Union at that time. Of course, he was extremely clever because he played off one against the other. The armed forces, the party, the bureaucracy, he played them off one against the other. And with his occasional purges and so on, he kept himself in power, in absolute power.

[Rena Stanton Sharma]

Under Stalin's clothes, communist rule. The Soviet Union had been transformed into a modern industrialized state, but at immense human cost. Millions suffered through purges, executions and brutal labor camps where many died from disease, starvation or exhaustion.

[Vinyalil Krishnan Krishnamenon]

Did he seem to you to be a brutal and coarse man? No, I wouldn't say brutal and certainly not coarse. On the contrary, I would say that his manners were almost refined. But he certainly struck me as a very strong man. Strong to the point of ruthlessness. I mean, perhaps the most memorable thing he told me was this. He said, Mr. Ambassador, our peasant is a simple man, but wise. When he sees a wolf, he shoots it. He doesn't preach morals to the wolf, he shoots it. And the wolf knows it and behaves accordingly. And then, you know, Stalin had a habit of doodling. Then I suddenly looked over and apparently this doodling enabled him to concentrate his attention on the conversation, whatever it may be. I looked over and what do I find but a number of wolves, wolves of different sizes. Two wolves standing up, one wolf glaring at the other, another wolf knocked down on the ground, and so on. This struck me as rather extraordinary.

[Rena Stanton Sharma]

Within a few years, Menon would be cast into the wilderness. And as a lone wolf in politics, his meeting with Stalin would be one of the dictator's last, taking place just weeks before his death of a stroke after a night of heavy drinking.

[Vinyalil Krishnan Krishnamenon]

Did Stalin's health seem to be good when you saw him? Oh, perfect. And later on after his death, when I mentioned it to a doctor, he said that was only natural because he died of cerebral hemorrhage. And just before a man gets gets an attack of cerebral hemorrhage, he's apt to look rather ruddy in the face. He looked perfectly fit. When I returned to the embassy, then all the world's pressmen were there and they all asked me what Stalin looked like. I said, stalin looked perfectly fit. That was on 17 February. He was taken ill on 28 February, and he was dead on 5 March.

[Rena Stanton Sharma]

Leading the nation's tributes, newsreader Yuri Levitan, known as the Voice of the Soviet Union, described him as a comrade and brilliant successor of Vladimir Lenin's work. Many mourned his loss, but others welcomed the news of the death of one of the most murderous dictators in history. As for Menon, he became a member of the Indian Parliament and was later named as India's Defence Minister. But his cabinet career ended in controversy in 1962 when he was blamed for India's defeat in a border confrontation with China. Krishna Menon died in 1974 in New Delhi. Witness history from the BBC World Service was presented by me, Rena Stanton Sharma. If you like this story, you might enjoy our episode called the Woman Born in a Prisoner of War Camp. It's one I made about the human cost of India's war with China. Also worth a listen is when Stalin silenced Shostakovich. But before you check those out, please leave us a review and make sure you hit subscribe. Thanks for listening. Bye for now.

[Vinyalil Krishnan Krishnamenon]

Imagine being here. Scientists have made the atomic bomb. The first one was dropped on a Japanese city this morning. Here, during the meeting, Mr. Mandela was informed of the government's decision regarding his release.

[Rena Stanton Sharma]

And here, witnesses have spoken of a wall of water that swept coastlines in Sri Lanka, Indonesia, Thailand.

[Vinyalil Krishnan Krishnamenon]

Hear from the people who were there.

[Rena Stanton Sharma]

He heard me praying while he was

[Vinyalil Krishnan Krishnamenon]

shooting and he just stopped. He said, I'm not going to. I'm going to leave you here to tell the story. Knowing that you have a spy and that you're following a spy. It doesn't get any cooler than that. Witness History brings you first hand accounts.

[Rena Stanton Sharma]

Merkel gets up and says, I'm going.

[Vinyalil Krishnan Krishnamenon]

And Tusk says, I'm locking the door. Nobody's leaving. You're reaching a compromise or you're not leaving this room. Was it shopping carts that made you rich? Well, they didn't make me poor. Listen now. Search for Witness History wherever you get your BBC podcasts.