RERUN 006. Gail Anderson: On Racism, Resilience, and the Power of Mentorship

Summary

Podcast Summary: Women Designers You Should Know – Episode 006: Gail Anderson: On Racism, Resilience, and the Power of Mentorship

Release Date: January 14, 2025

In Episode 006 of Women Designers You Should Know, host Amber Asay engages in a profound and heartfelt conversation with the illustrious Gail Anderson. Renowned for her influential work in graphic design and typography, particularly during her tenure as Senior Art Director at Rolling Stone magazine, Gail shares her inspiring journey navigating the design industry as a Black woman in the 1980s and 1990s. This episode delves deep into themes of racism, resilience, mentorship, and the evolving landscape of design education.

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1. Introduction to Gail Anderson

Amber begins by expressing her admiration for Gail, highlighting her extensive career—from Broadway poster designs to her role at the School of Visual Arts (SVA). Gail’s accolades, including the 2018 Cooper Hewitt National Design Award for lifetime achievement, set the stage for an insightful discussion.

Notable Quote:

Amber Asay [02:27]: "I have been aware of or seen your work for 15 years now and didn't really know who you were. I think your work preceded you for me."

2. Early Creative Roots

Gail recounts her early passion for art, sparked in grammar school and nurtured by a supportive high school art teacher, Ms. Frances. Activities like calligraphy and block printing laid the foundation for her future in design. Gail’s fascination with album covers and teen magazines in her youth hinted at her creative future.

Notable Quote:

Gail Anderson [05:20]: "There were just a bunch of us who loved it to the point that we thought, there's a career in there somewhere."

3. Navigating the Design Industry as a Black Woman

Entering the professional world in 1984, Gail discusses the unique challenges she faced as one of the few Black designers. Despite a predominantly male industry, she found solidarity among female mentors and colleagues, which mitigated the feeling of being in a "man's world."

Notable Quote:

Gail Anderson [12:03]: "And so it seemed like, okay, it doesn't feel like a man's world. It feels like we're here, too."

4. Experiences with Racism and Invisibility

Gail opens up about the subtle and overt instances of racism she encountered, including assumptions about her family’s background based on her appearance. These experiences contributed to a sense of invisibility and highlighted the ongoing struggle for recognition in the industry.

Notable Quote:

Gail Anderson [14:07]: "I am quite so pasty and blonde. So I have a different life experience than somebody who is much darker than I am."

5. The Power of Mentorship

Throughout her career, mentorship played a crucial role in Gail’s development. She credits influential figures like Paula Scherman and Karen Goldberg for shaping her design philosophy and professional trajectory. Currently, as the chair of the BFA Advertising and BFA Design departments at SVA, Gail emphasizes the importance of empathy and understanding in teaching the next generation of designers.

Notable Quote:

Gail Anderson [29:46]: "For the last years, we're all trying to increase our empathy to where the young folk are in their world, which is a crazy world."

6. Reflections on Design Practices and Evolution

Gail nostalgically reflects on the meticulous design processes of the past, such as manual type setting and creating mechanicals. She contrasts these with the rapid pace of today's digital design environment, expressing both admiration for technological advancements and a longing for the deliberate decision-making of earlier times.

Notable Quote:

Gail Anderson [28:13]: "You're designing on tracing paper or in your little notebook, and then sketches that you put together with xeroxes... It took forever."

7. Teaching and Mentorship at SVA

With over three decades of teaching experience, Gail discusses her teaching philosophy, focusing on empathy and adapting to the evolving needs of students. She emphasizes the importance of pushing students to explore and experiment while understanding the unique challenges they face in a constantly changing world.

Notable Quote:

Gail Anderson [31:53]: "Now, I'm in a place where I'm trying to understand as much as I can and still push and push gently these days."

8. Legacy and Impact

Gail expresses fulfillment in seeing her work integrated into the urban landscape, from billboards to theater posters. Her legacy is not just in her designs but also in the countless students and designers she has mentored and inspired throughout her career.

Notable Quote:

Gail Anderson [22:15]: "It's really fun to see what you do out in the world... you've become part of the environment."

9. Conclusion: Redesigning History

Amber wraps up the episode by celebrating Gail's contributions and reiterating the podcast's mission to highlight and honor the women who have shaped design history. She encourages listeners to continue sharing these vital stories to ensure these trailblazers receive the recognition they deserve.

Notable Quote:

Amber Asay [33:03]: "Let's redesign history by celebrating women."

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Key Takeaways

• Resilience in the Face of Racism: Gail’s journey underscores the importance of resilience and support systems in overcoming industry barriers.

• Mentorship's Crucial Role: Mentors like Paula Scherman and Karen Goldberg were instrumental in Gail’s growth, highlighting the necessity of mentorship in creative fields.

• Evolving Design Practices: The transition from manual to digital design processes reflects broader technological shifts, impacting how designers create and collaborate.

• Empathetic Teaching: Gail’s approach to education emphasizes empathy and adaptability, crucial for connecting with today’s diverse student body.

• Legacy Through Work and Teaching: Gail’s enduring legacy is twofold—her iconic designs and her influence as an educator shaping future generations of designers.

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Final Thoughts

Gail Anderson’s narrative is a testament to the power of creativity, perseverance, and mentorship in shaping not only a successful career but also an inclusive and dynamic design community. Her experiences offer valuable lessons on navigating challenges, embracing change, and fostering environments where diverse talents can thrive.

Transcript

[Unknown]

Foreign.

[Amber AC]

Welcome to another exciting episode of Women Designers, you Should Know the podcast to help you discover the trailblazers of design you never learned about in school. I'm your host, Amber AC, and I'm thrilled to bring you an extraordinary conversation in this episode. Today, I'm not just talking about a design legend. I'm interviewing one. I'm honored to welcome the incredible Gail Anderson, a powerhouse in graphic design and typography whose work has inspired and influenced countless designers around the world. Gail Anderson is a distinguished designer, writer and educator renowned for her impactful work at Rolling Stone magazine, where she served as Senior Art director. She's an AIGA medalist, has authored 14 books, and currently chairs the BFA Advertising and BFA Design departments at the School of Visual Arts. Gayle's creative portfolio extends to Broadway, where she has designed posters for notable productions, and she has received several awards, including the 2018 Cooper Hewitt National Design Award for lifetime achievement. In this episode, Gayle shares her journey, starting from her early years as a creative in grammar school to what it was like navigating the challenges as a black woman designer in the 80s and 90s while breaking barriers in the industry. Join us as we explore Gayle's career, her inspirations, and her thoughts on the evolving world of design. Today, we're bringing you a firsthand look into the mind of a true design trailblazer inside.

[Unknown]

Their legacy. These women pave the way for you and me and her and she breaking boundaries till you better world.

Welcome to the podcast, Gail.

[Gail Anderson]

Why, thank you.

[Unknown]

I am so excited to have you here.

Thank you for joining me. I'm kind of fangirling right now because I have been aware of or seen your work for 15 years now and didn't really know who you were. I think your work preceded you for me. And then once I found out over the years who designed these things, these iconic typographic designs, and learning more about you, then it all pieced together. So thank you for joining me.

[Gail Anderson]

Well, thank you for inviting me.

[Unknown]

I have about 10 or so quick.

Questions that I wanted to ask you. So to start.

Introvert or extrovert?

[Gail Anderson]

Introvert. Mostly introvert. Yeah. But I can turn it on if I have to a little bit.

[Unknown]

Summer or winter?

[Gail Anderson]

Well, summer.

[Unknown]

Who wants cold weather?

Dine in or dine out?

[Gail Anderson]

You know what?

[Unknown]

Out.

[Gail Anderson]

Because I'm spending way too much on GrubHub.

[Unknown]

Minimalist or maximalist?

[Gail Anderson]

Maximalist. Maximalist.

[Unknown]

Desktop or laptop?

[Gail Anderson]

Laptop with a big monitor?

[Unknown]

Grid or freestyle?

Freestyle.

[Gail Anderson]

Freestyle.

[Unknown]

Pastels or neons?

[Gail Anderson]

Neon. Neon.

[Unknown]

Designing during the day or at night, during the day.

[Gail Anderson]

When I was younger, it was at night. Now it's what time is it?

[Amber AC]

Serif or sans?

[Unknown]

Probably serif.

Digital design or physical design?

Well, having lived in both worlds, that's a hard one.

[Gail Anderson]

I'm gonna go old school and say physical, but you can plug my laptop in somewhere and I'll be good.

[Unknown]

One long project or a bunch of tiny projects?

[Gail Anderson]

Oh, I like something long that I can chip away at. And that's why books are great.

[Unknown]

Designing to a playlist or a podcast.

Or album, depending on your preference.

[Gail Anderson]

Well, I do enjoy a playlist, but, yeah, probably music rather than podcasts.

[Unknown]

Podcasts are for driving.

[Gail Anderson]

Podcasts and audiobooks.

[Amber AC]

Well, that makes sense with your experience.

[Unknown]

Too, because you seem to be very driven by music, and you let music kind of inspire you with some of your designs too, so I think that makes total sense. To start off, I thought it would.

Be fun to go way back to.

Your early years, back before you went to sba. You were living in the Bronx.

And I want to know what drove you creatively. I heard you made little magazines based on your favorite music, music groups of the time.

Were there other things you were creating in high school that gave you a.

Good hint you were interested in design?

[Gail Anderson]

I had a great art teacher in High School, Ms. Frances, and she took classes at SVA. She took calligraphy classes, and so we were learning calligraphy.

[Unknown]

She was doing block printing, so we.

[Gail Anderson]

Were doing block printing. And it was a very academic school.

[Unknown]

That just happened to have a nice little art department.

[Gail Anderson]

And there were just a bunch of us who loved it to the point that we thought, there's a career in there somewhere. And even before high school, making the magazines and trying to copy album covers. And I remember trying to copy Goodbye.

[Unknown]

Yellow Brick Road and do my own.

[Gail Anderson]

Version of that, or, you know, all that sort of stuff.

[Unknown]

Put it up on the wall. Album covers were such a huge inspiration.

[Gail Anderson]

As well as teen magazines, anything entertainment, anything. My parents album covers, there's just, like, this world of really cool stuff that.

[Unknown]

You wonder how you get a job doing that.

[Gail Anderson]

And I had a cousin Clive, who worked at cbs, and I just thought.

[Unknown]

He was the coolest. Cause he was an art director there.

[Gail Anderson]

And I didn't know what it was. And my mother would be like, show.

[Unknown]

Him what you did.

[Gail Anderson]

And so he was very encouraging, and that was very sweet. And much later in life, seeing him as an adult, when I was working at Rolling Sound, he was like, wow. So you really followed through on that. And I was like, oh, yeah, that's Clive. We had one of his paintings in our living room of a barn over the fireplace. And again, I thought, like, oh, he could do anything. You know, he could paint a barn.

[Unknown]

And he can do whatever he does on cbs.

[Gail Anderson]

But yeah, so there was a tiny bit of family stuff. And my father was a watchmaker, but.

[Unknown]

Also a good draftsman, and my sister.

[Gail Anderson]

Could draw, and so we all. And my brother could draw. So my sister in college was taking design class when she was at nyu.

[Unknown]

And I remember going into the basement.

[Gail Anderson]

And seeing some of her projects that were just sort of tossed down there later on.

[Unknown]

And it's like, hair.

[Gail Anderson]

Like, I want to do that. I need a school that just focuses on that. And luckily, because of my high school art teacher, she was like, here's a.

[Unknown]

School you should go to.

I was like, okay, what was the earliest thing that you created? Or like, how old were you when you realized you really liked drawing and were really creative?

[Gail Anderson]

I did something in kindergarten. I was drawing my classmates in profile, hopefully.

[Unknown]

Right. Were you exchanging.

[Gail Anderson]

And the teacher was like, what is that? I said, well, it's.

[Unknown]

It's sideways.

[Gail Anderson]

And she was like, what? Yeah, like the.

[Unknown]

No, I was like, oh, like, that's profile.

[Gail Anderson]

I was like, why, thank you.

[Unknown]

So that's pretty incredible for a five.

Year old, I've got to say.

[Gail Anderson]

You know, looking back, I was like, well, look at you, Gailey.

[Unknown]

The perspective you had, even at five.

[Gail Anderson]

Oh, then we were learning perspective.

[Unknown]

Or somebody was teaching me perspective.

[Gail Anderson]

This is grammar school, okay? And I remember taking the rulers and doing the lines, and I drew a.

[Unknown]

Barn based on the barn that was.

[Gail Anderson]

In the living room and showing it to my dad.

[Unknown]

And I was like, look at this.

[Gail Anderson]

And he was like, well, that's not quite right. And he's like, really? So I'm never showing you anything again.

[Unknown]

But that's funny. While you were at sva, you were taught by another woman legend, Paula Scherman.

Were there any other women designers you were taught about or learned of while you were in school?

[Gail Anderson]

Well, there was another.

[Unknown]

I learned from Karen Goldberg.

Oh, yeah.

[Gail Anderson]

And between Paula and Karen, Henrietta conduct these real badass women. Louise Feely had just started teaching. And, you know, there were these really.

[Unknown]

Incredible characters and Paula and Karen in.

[Gail Anderson]

Particular, such strong women. And no nonsense, to say the least, we were in awe of them and enamored of them.

[Unknown]

And I learned from the best.

Do you remember how old they were at the time or just roughly.

Well, go back 40 years.

[Gail Anderson]

So 30s.

[Unknown]

You're 20.

[Gail Anderson]

Like, that might as well be a hundred. So they were. They seemed so much older, but in reality, they weren't, you know?

[Unknown]

Well, and back then, their age meant different than it does today.

[Gail Anderson]

Yeah, I remember my portfolio class with Paula. She just started teaching the year before, and all we wanted was her approval. Every week it was like, what did she say?

[Unknown]

How did she say it?

[Gail Anderson]

What was the tone? And she would sit there with her parliament and low smoke, hold a cigarette over the project, and you're just like, wait, don't put. Don't drop that on my project. You know, just to share a cab or to have a conversation after class, any of that. That was gold. There was no reaching out, you know, since obviously no Internet back then. But you weren't contacting and asking questions.

[Unknown]

Your instructors just appeared magically once a.

[Gail Anderson]

Week, and then they went back off into their world. And once she had just started, Mantel.

[Unknown]

Coppell and Cher with Richard Mantel and.

[Gail Anderson]

Terri Coppell, and the studio was on the west side, and I remember we got to go over there a couple times, and again, you're like, what? Like, she has a life outside of those couple of hours on 6 to 9 on Tuesday night. And, you know, so just wanting her approval, that was all it was about. And still now, so many years later. So Paula says, like, I'm like, okay, whatever you say.

[Unknown]

So I bet you have her approval now, seeing all of the stuff that you've done over the years. How could she not?

[Gail Anderson]

I still eat up every word, you know, and. And I'll take anything. And it's like, what's it? You write that down for me.

[Unknown]

So I bet you have so many good stories to tell about her. But I know one thing that you've.

Talked about with her, too, is that.

She was one of the best mentors for you throughout your career, too. And as you started your career, you started out at Random House, and then.

You moved on to the Boston Globe and then went on to work at rolling stone for 15 years, where you created some amazingly iconic designs. And I imagine that the industry was.

Extremely different back then.

What was it like being a woman designer back in the 80s and 90s?

[Gail Anderson]

I got started in 84.

[Unknown]

The first person I worked for was a woman, Judy Loser at Random House at Vintage Books.

Okay.

[Gail Anderson]

And then Lynn Staley at the Boston Globe Sunday magazine, and our boss over Lynn, and then Lucy Bartholomew, Ron Campisi, and I got to know Louise when I was at Random House, and she was Pantheon. So there were always these really great.

[Unknown]

Women around Sarah Eisenman Ecnaft.

[Gail Anderson]

And so it seemed like, okay, it doesn't feel like a man's world.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gail Anderson]

It feels like we're here, too. And yet there are times that I feel like, hey, wait a minute now, so many years later that there'll be conversations that if I'm with a guy.

[Unknown]

The person addresses the guy or he makes more eye contact with the guy.

[Gail Anderson]

I'm like, hey, hey, hey, hey.

[Unknown]

And maybe it's because of age, too.

[Gail Anderson]

That that starts to happen as I become increasingly invisible as time goes by, as I'm learning. It's something that any of us women.

[Unknown]

Of a certain age are very much.

[Gail Anderson]

Aware of, are increasing invisibility, and that it's a little bit of a fight to be.

[Unknown]

Not that any of us are looking.

[Gail Anderson]

To be front and center, because, of course, women don't do that, but to.

[Unknown]

Just be acknowledged sometimes.

Yeah.

[Gail Anderson]

And, you know, I'm lucky that here at sva, that's not an issue.

[Unknown]

It's a healthy mix of many kinds.

[Gail Anderson]

But it is something that I read about or hear about now as I'm.

[Unknown]

More and more over the hill, like.

[Gail Anderson]

Hey, now I'm experiencing it too.

[Unknown]

Yeah, that's interesting.

Yeah.

Thank you for your perspective on that, too. Going back to the 80s and 90s, were there any other black designers in.

The field that you knew of that.

Never got the recognition they deserved?

[Gail Anderson]

Other than my friend Richard Baker, who I went to school with, and we were both in Boston at the same time, I didn't know anybody. And so I think we both assumed we were the only people. A mutual friend at the Globe, Steve Nelson, who's like, this big mucky muck in D.C. now, and many fabulous degrees and National Gallery and all that. Yeah. We just felt like, okay, it's just us and this entire industry, because you.

[Unknown]

Never saw anybody else.

[Gail Anderson]

My classmates at school, one classmate, Jerry Craft, who's gone on to huge success these last years with some young adult books that he's done. But, yeah, it was few and far between, and it kind of still is a little bit. Certainly better.

[Unknown]

Certainly better than the 80s and 90s.

[Gail Anderson]

And I was part of a little article in the Times about a decade.

[Unknown]

Or so back, and they were asking.

[Gail Anderson]

You know, is it harder being a woman in design or person of color in design? I was like. At the time, I was like, yeah, woman, I think. And now, like, well, why did I say that? Like, it's actually 20 years later, it's like, yeah, think of the person of color. And I have a different story as a Person of color in that I am quite so pasty and blonde. So I have a different life experience than somebody who is much darker than I am. Different hair, all that. So I can live in a world somewhere in the middle sometimes where people say really weird stuff. I remember moving into my apartment 35 years ago downtown, that someone in the.

[Unknown]

Building said, oh, you're moving, man.

[Gail Anderson]

I was like, that's my father. And so I've had a lot of that over the years of people just.

[Unknown]

Making assumptions about my family, about me, and even my sister, who's a little.

[Gail Anderson]

Bit darker than I am with. With dark hair, that it's like, that's your sister. And, like, people's thought bubbles just pop.

[Unknown]

Right out and they say it, and.

[Gail Anderson]

They'Re like, oh, what did you just say? Did you really just say that? So, wow.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I can't imagine what that would have been like. And I feel like there is such a weird level of acceptance even today, too, that I feel like so many.

People are still trying to break free.

From and really acknowledge and be inclusive and aware of those things and all of it, too. And so I think hearing stories like that is so important because it really opens everyone's eyes to what it's like and what it was like even in.

The 80s and 90s, and even what.

It'S like still today. And having those conversations, I think is so important, too.

So thank you for sharing.

[Gail Anderson]

I've told the story of more like.

[Unknown]

The 60s and 70s of my parents.

[Gail Anderson]

Moving to the neighborhood that we grew up in.

[Unknown]

Oh, yeah? What was that like?

It was very much an Italian neighborhood.

[Gail Anderson]

And the realtor taking my folks around, showing them different neighborhoods.

[Unknown]

And my dad was like, I want to live there.

[Gail Anderson]

I want to live there. And they're like, yeah, not so much.

[Unknown]

And then he was more and more like, I want a house here.

[Gail Anderson]

And he's like, I want it on this block.

[Unknown]

And he eventually got what he wanted.

[Gail Anderson]

The neighbors were horrified and suspicious and then saw my dad out there, you know, mowing the little tiny strip of.

[Unknown]

Grass that you can't even call a.

[Gail Anderson]

Lawn, but fixing up the house, the.

[Unknown]

Exterior and the driveway.

[Gail Anderson]

And at first, the neighbors wouldn't share.

[Unknown]

The driveway with us.

[Gail Anderson]

It was a shared driveway, and they wouldn't come out if we were out, and people would put their garbage in.

[Unknown]

Front of the house and stuff like that.

[Gail Anderson]

And he was a pioneer in his own little way. And I suppose all of us were unknowingly, but growing up, being extra careful and don't ride your bike into this.

[Unknown]

Person'S driveway or like, a lot of.

[Gail Anderson]

Don'T, don't, don't, like, just stand to the radar, be nice and, well, nobody else is being nice. Why are you like, oh, yeah, yeah.

[Unknown]

That'S very brave of your parents. And I imagine they were just extremely cautious everywhere they went to, which is not really fair, but it is.

[Gail Anderson]

For their whole lives into their 90s.

[Unknown]

They were very cautious. When they moved to their retirement community.

[Gail Anderson]

They looked around and it was sort of like, here we go again.

[Unknown]

I thought, no, times have changed and you should be okay.

[Gail Anderson]

But, you know, they were very aware of, like, well, the neighbors, you know, somebody gotta come out and look through the window. It's like, maybe they just want to see because this is a retirement community and everybody's always looking out the window to see who's. Who's coming around. So, like, maybe it's not a race thing, but maybe it is.

[Unknown]

Maybe because they grew up in the 60s and 70s too, and they hold on to those ideals.

We kind of, in other ways grew.

[Gail Anderson]

Up thinking, well, if I want this.

[Unknown]

I can have this.

[Gail Anderson]

You know, like, it's a little harder, but why can't I have xyz?

[Unknown]

And so, yeah, yeah, going back to the start of your career and thinking through the 80s and 90s, and you went on to Spotco, and you continue to have really great mentors that really helped put you in these places that.

You deserved to be.

And thinking of Stephen Heller as one.

Of those mentors too, and that you've authored and Co authored 14 books on.

Type and design and illustration.

How has writing about design over the.

Years complemented your design practice?

Being involved, particularly in research for the.

[Gail Anderson]

Project is eye opening. And early on, when it was so hard to do the research pre Internet, going to the library or wherever to look at books and then calling people and faxing and. And all that, as a young person, it opened my eyes to a world.

[Unknown]

Outside of New York.

[Gail Anderson]

Because, you know, you're like, oh, everything.

[Unknown]

Exists here in my backyard and nowhere else. And then it was like, okay, so it exists on the two coasts.

[Gail Anderson]

And then it's like, wait, it exists in the middle. It's like, wait, it exists around the world. And while you will never get rich doing a book or the kind of little design books that we've done over.

[Unknown]

The years, what an education.

[Gail Anderson]

And as it certainly, as it got easier to research the material, the world gets bigger and bigger and bigger. And there are people that I've met over the years, it's like, how do I know you from one of the books, and you're like, hi, Irene. Hey. They sort of become your, you know, spooky friends somewhere in the country. I can't recommend enough. Getting involved in projects like that early on in your career to kind of stretch your brain and to keep learning. And, I mean, obviously it's different now.

[Unknown]

Cause everything's at your fingertips. And it was less so at the.

[Gail Anderson]

Time, but I learned so much every project.

[Unknown]

What an education.

[Gail Anderson]

You want to keep doing things that challenge you and scare you. And Steve is just brilliant and doesn't have to research anything because he knows everything and can just do it right off the top of his head and is fast. And it's like, I'm done. It's like, wait a minute. You're done? Like, I haven't started yet, and you're done. But with the projects, we would take one on, you'd have maybe two years.

[Unknown]

Now it's like a year or maybe.

[Gail Anderson]

A year and a half. But things move very quickly. And towards the end, I'm like, never again. And then you actually have the book in your hand, and he's like, I have an idea. Like, okay, what do you mean?

[Amber AC]

On to the next.

[Gail Anderson]

On to the next. Yeah, yeah.

[Unknown]

No.

[Gail Anderson]

Then you're like, wait, what did he just trick me into? Like, ah, damn it. I said yes again. And then, you know, and then you start learning all over again. You're like, oh, this is really fun, but I'll never do it again. All right, I'll do another one.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

That's so interesting, too, how you're benefiting more from the book than anything else, too. And some people go back to school for further education, and you write books for further education.

When I graduated, I remember taking silkscreen.

[Gail Anderson]

Class because I was, you know, you're showing school modes. You're like, what else can I do? And I'm like, nope, nope, we're done here.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gail Anderson]

Now I can take a free class here.

[Unknown]

Oh, yeah.

[Gail Anderson]

Well, like, I should do something like jewelry making or metal. Something totally, totally different.

[Unknown]

And then the piece.

[Gail Anderson]

No, you should sign up for After Effects. Like, oh, do something, you know, with your hands.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gail Anderson]

And then I do nothing. So next semester. Next semester I'll do that.

[Unknown]

Yes.

Looking back at your career, in the last five or six years, you've received lifetime achievement awards from AIGA and Cooper Hewitt. With those awards and your vast body of work, when you reflect back on everything you've created and had an impact on, what would you say has been the most fulfilling part of Being a.

[Gail Anderson]

Designer, it's really fun to see what you do out in the world on the billboard or in the store, on a book cover, to seeing it, you know, as trash on the street, that you're like, you've become part of the environment. And Ron Cambisi would say, oh, it's all fish wrap with the Sunday magazine that we worked on. And he was right.

[Unknown]

Cause the first time I saw it.

[Gail Anderson]

Like, when I was walking to work, I was like, that's my work, like on the ground. It's like, you know what?

[Unknown]

This is all really disposable.

[Gail Anderson]

And so I should hung up on it.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gail Anderson]

But it's really especially the stuff at spot for me to see it in the environment around the city was really exciting.

[Unknown]

Like, did you see it in Times Square, walking around? I did that.

[Gail Anderson]

That, yeah.

[Unknown]

That's incredible.

Yeah.

[Gail Anderson]

And just that it blend in anonymously, which is sort of fun, but you're part of it.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

That's beautiful. Does that ever get old?

[Gail Anderson]

Never gets old. With the magazine we were so focused on, you know, let's start the next issue. Or working on stuff that I don't.

[Unknown]

Think any of us ever looked up.

[Gail Anderson]

And thought about the work in a bigger way. But if I traveled, it was like, wait, here's Rolling Stone in this country or wherever. I was like, that's really cool that this exists someplace else. But it was really the theater stuff that was like, it's like right here. The first time I did something, getting off the subway and looking at it and then getting back on and then.

[Unknown]

Getting off at the next stop and.

[Gail Anderson]

Looking for the thing again and like, oh, wow. So that's like, okay, this, like.

[Unknown]

I hadn't had that feeling in a long time.

[Gail Anderson]

And that was just. You feel like a kid.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

I'm curious to know, do you have.

The 15 years or plus, I mean, all the magazine work that you've done.

Even beyond Rolling Stone.

Do you have all of those issues.

In an archive somewhere?

[Gail Anderson]

An archive would be the wrong word. It's under my house. There are three copies of each issue of Rolling Stone, 15 years worth, under the house. And I had all my Boston Globes. They all got crispy and yellow and so I had to just chuck em.

[Unknown]

But I haven't opened the Rolling Stone boxes in years.

[Gail Anderson]

And it's probably like boxes of dust at this point. But yeah, I made sure to take three of everything.

[Unknown]

And then.

[Gail Anderson]

Yeah, really, I should have just taken one these three reasons.

[Unknown]

Yeah, that's definitely a whole project in and of itself. Is scanning the designs that you worked on and creating, like, a Gail Anderson archive.

I remember years and years and years.

[Gail Anderson]

Ago, the little group of us decided we would take some of our spreads.

[Unknown]

And get them laminated, because that's how people showed their work back then.

Oh, yeah.

[Gail Anderson]

And so somewhere, probably under the house, there are a bunch of spreads that are laminated.

[Unknown]

Cool. Those are protected.

[Gail Anderson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But a lot of the stuff is gone, you know, even when it became files. I have a few things that I really liked, but mostly no. And then files that can't be opened anymore. So. Yeah, yeah, it's all gone.

[Unknown]

That were on a floppy disk, maybe at one point they were on.

[Gail Anderson]

On. On. Yeah. On a zip disk, maybe eventually.

[Unknown]

Or on a floppy disk.

[Gail Anderson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Unknown]

So I'm sure some old tech place.

Can get files off of floppy disk, but. Yeah, it's such archaic tech.

[Gail Anderson]

Yeah. And I found a bunch of mechanicals that I taken when I left.

[Unknown]

I don't know why I had these mechanicals.

[Gail Anderson]

I thought, oh, maybe I'll.

[Unknown]

And so they're all at the archive here.

[Gail Anderson]

So if people ever want to see how we did it, how it was put together.

[Unknown]

It exists.

Yeah. In fact, you might have to explain what a mechanical is to our younger design generation.

[Gail Anderson]

Oh, everything in retrospect was really hard. And, you know, you were designing on tracing paper or in your little notebook, and then sketches that you put together with xeroxes, and then xeroxes to photostats, and then eventually putting it together in black and white that you were using a waxer and burnishing it down onto a mechanical board. And that went to pre press. It took forever. You were cutting apart type that was set on a typositor and then doing the letter spacing and then making a xerox of that so you could look.

[Unknown]

At it without the cut marks and.

[Gail Anderson]

Check your spacing and everything just took a long time. And that's what the music was for. To just like, all right, that was.

[Unknown]

What the night was for, was to.

[Gail Anderson]

Do that, get into the zone and sit there and do that. And Fred Woodward, our beloved art director and hero, we'd be there at night and he got into watching 30 something, which you might not even know what that was. A show on ABC that was about the anxieties and the hand wringing of people in their 30s. And he was in that category. We were trying to like, oh, 30 something. Like, you're a thousand years old. And then we all sit there and watch this fricking show at night or whatever. Else was on. So we were. Yeah, it went from music to like, what's on tonight?

[Unknown]

That's so funny.

You know what?

You know, it'd be really cool.

And maybe only younger designers would be.

Curious about this, but I feel like.

SVA or some university needs to teach.

An old school graphic design class where.

You are cutting and pasting and ledra setting and oh my God, when I.

[Gail Anderson]

Talk about it, I can't even talk about that stuff without them losing their minds. You're like, if I had to do that, I would pick another career.

[Unknown]

Yeah, okay, then, yeah, it'd be like kind of a laughable class, but also like, here's how it used to be. Here's what we had to do because, I mean, I would be curious to try that out too.

You made deliberate decisions.

[Gail Anderson]

That was the good thing.

[Unknown]

That since it was so time consuming.

[Gail Anderson]

You really thought about your choices. Cause like, I can't ask Jim to.

[Unknown]

Set it in 20 faces. I can maybe ask four or five.

[Gail Anderson]

Or when I was at Random House.

[Unknown]

If you had to set it, you.

[Gail Anderson]

Set it outside at one of the type companies so you couldn't spend tons of money. So you had to be careful.

[Unknown]

I guess it's a good lesson in self directing too, for younger designers that are like, here's a million options and you really have to walk them through.

How to self direct themselves.

Yeah.

[Gail Anderson]

And you're, you know, when you were designing, you were in one zell and one.

[Unknown]

When you were doing the mechanical, the paste ups, your head was so close.

[Gail Anderson]

To the table that I'm sure we all ruined our eyes sitting there in the dark doing this work, but you just squinted and like went and then.

[Unknown]

Turned it upside down to look at it and see it upside down, then.

[Gail Anderson]

Turned it back and showed to someone. Can you come and check this for me?

[Unknown]

Can you take a look at this?

[Gail Anderson]

And then you're like, you misspelled whatever.

[Unknown]

Oh, no. Oh, that's the worst. Well, thinking about your career now and.

What you're doing, you are now the.

Chair of the BFA design and advertising departments at SVA and have been teaching.

There for over 30 years.

And so in that vein of paying.

It forward, you're now a mentor and teacher to so many young designers, especially women designers and black designers. What would you say sets you apart as a design professor?

[Gail Anderson]

Maybe longevity. At this point, so many years in one institution, I don't know if there's anything that sets me apart.

[Unknown]

Are there any sayings you use in.

Your classes that your students know you for?

[Gail Anderson]

The last years, we're all trying to increase our empathy to where the young folk are in their world, which is a crazy world. And for the things that were going on in my world coming up, nothing like what students go through now. You know, for us, it was 911.

[Unknown]

That we were so shaken by.

[Gail Anderson]

And for these guys now, you don't have enough fingers to count the things that have rocked their worlds. And so I'm too old to put.

[Unknown]

Myself in their shoes. When I started teaching so long ago, I was just a couple years older.

[Gail Anderson]

And so we were kind of on the same page. I was teaching in the evening, and then when I started in the day.

[Unknown]

Even then I was a generation ahead. I was feeling what they were feeling.

[Gail Anderson]

And now, you know, I'm in a place where I'm teaching, you know, you taught my mother, like, you really don't need to remind me about that. But. But, oh, my God, your mother, really? Are you sure? Not your sister.

[Unknown]

So, yeah.

[Gail Anderson]

So it's just. It's. Now things are different, and I'm trying to understand as much as I can and still push and push gently these.

[Unknown]

Days, but still push.

[Gail Anderson]

And where we, Karen Paula pushed hard, made no bones about it, students are much more fragile now. And that kind of pushing was good for us because we could take it, you know, but also, you know, it's just a different world.

[Unknown]

So it's a very empathetic perspective as a teacher to not say your way is the right way and listen to me. And I'm the wise one here. But that's really interesting to kind of really see and understand their perspective and meeting them at their level.

[Gail Anderson]

And that took a while, especially as chair that I'm in it all the time.

[Unknown]

It's like, okay, you have to meet them where they are.

[Gail Anderson]

I have to say that to myself sometimes in my head, over and over.

[Unknown]

Yeah. You've got over 30 years of teaching experience, so I feel like you probably know a thing or two about students.

And how to teach them and all of that.

So I think that's really wise and really great to hear.

[Gail Anderson]

But at the same time, I've put my foot in my mouth many times. I've made people cry, like, all kinds of stuff. You're like, hello. No, no, no, no, no, that's not what I meant. Or you say something and they try it and they're like, well, you said. It's like, I know, but I just said, try it. I didn't say that was the answer. Like, you have to be open to trying stuff and that's a real struggle.

[Unknown]

Is to say, try it five different ways. Try it ten different ways.

[Gail Anderson]

Like, don't, don't. You're not done. Keep going, Keep going.

[Unknown]

Well, thank you. This was so fun and so inspiring. And thank you again for all that.

You'Ve done or the design world.

Thank you.

[Gail Anderson]

Thank you for having me.

[Amber AC]

And that wraps up this inspiring episode of Women Designers yous Should Know. I hope you enjoyed our deep dive into the life and career of the remarkable Gail Anderson. A massive thank you to Gail for sharing her incredible journey, insights, and wisdom with us. It's been an absolute honor to have her on the show and to learn from her experiences and expertise. Her story is a testament to the power of creativity, perseverance, and passion. Remember, the conversation doesn't end here. We can all work together on sharing these stories and pushing for these women to be household names. Just like Paul Rand, Frank Lloyd Wright, and Massimo Vignelli. Let's redesign history by celebrating women.