← Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch
Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch
Jana Schmieding: The Mountain Knows More Than I Know
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Actor and writer Jana Schmieding (Reservation Dogs, Rutherford Falls) joins the show to talk about her Lakota traditions and a spirituality rooted in connection to nature. Plus she explains the Heyoka, the merry prankster figure in Lakota lore -- only those who have the vision can take on this role!
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A
Welcome to Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch, the podcast that explores the unexplained with humor and curiosity. Hello and welcome to Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch here with Irene Brevis Hello, Irene.
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C
Hello, sweetie.
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A
Irene. Today we have an actor, writer, and general good gal. I worked with her a little bit last year and that's where I first met her. Please say hello to Jana Schmieding. Hi, Jana.
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D
Hello.
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C
Hi.
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D
Hi.
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A
Thank you for doing our show.
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D
Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to talk about everything.
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A
Woo woo. Everything. Woo woo. So Jen and I met now you were. You've done many acting roles, but we met doing the untitled NBC pilot, AKA City Indians. We did a show for NBC that. Well, who knows? Maybe after we talk about it now, it will have a second life, but who knows, you know, you know how showbiz goes.
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D
Yeah.
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A
And it was basically a show based on a community center for Native Americans. And it took place in Oakland, but we shot it in Portland. And yeah, we shot it for. I don't know. How long does a pilot take to shoot?
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D
I feel like we were there for like a week and a half to two weeks. Right.
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A
It felt like longer to me, but in a good way.
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D
Maybe it was, I don't know, was a blur. Yeah. Delightful blur.
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A
Do you want to tell us a little about that show?
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D
Sure. Yeah. It was a pilot that didn't go, so they chose the cheerleading show instead. That is now on NBC. And it's fine. And I'm not bitter at all. And all good. Totally fine. We don't need more Native American content. Content or comedy in the world at all. Yeah, yeah.
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C
Cheerleaders need a voice.
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D
Cheerleaders give a voice to the voiceless cheerleaders. But yeah, it was created by Sierra Teller Ornellis, who is Sierra Teller Ornellis, Bobby Wilson and Jackie Clea. And Sierra Teller Ornellis is the co creator with Mike Shore and Ed Helms of Rutherford Falls, which I co starred in with Ed Helms. So it was sort of like a repeat of a similar crew of native folks working on this comedy that was sort of the mockumentary office style, you know, workplace comedy. And Rachel played part of the staff at this community center. She played sort of our token white woman.
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A
And I was told, I forget who told me this. One of the writers, I think was said something like, well, there's always like the nice white lady on the reservation and then there's also the mean white lady on the reservation. I was being the nice white lady. The mean white lady had not been introduced or I guess never. Well, maybe
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D
we never will.
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A
I played the nice white lady and I was wearing like a lot of turquoise and flowy dresses. And so anyway, it was Just, it was really fun and I wish it had gone, but I know.
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D
And you really would have gotten to play sort of your woo Woo side in that show. And it's sort of a bummer that we didn't get to explore the woo woo. Wait, what was your character's name? Do you remember?
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A
Cheryl. I want to say Cheryl.
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D
Oh, yeah, Cheryl. It was giving turquoise flowy, flowy dress. It was sort of like Birkenstocks. This. This is our progressive Eugene, Oregon queen.
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A
Yes.
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D
Living in Oakland.
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A
Honoring, yet not appropriating, merely honor.
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D
That's right.
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A
Yes, exactly right. Oh, and then there was the group of elders that came in as kind of like the extra sort of. But they were so fun and sweet and my gosh.
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D
And, you know, I knew some of those elders, like, they are friends with my grandma, like, and I had reached out to them because I grew up in Oregon and I'm an. I'm city Indian from Oregon. My people, the Lakota people, are in South Dakota, and my grandma's reservation is the Rosebud Reservation in South Dakota. My grandfather's reservation in the tribe which I am enrolled in is called the Cheyenne River Reservation, also in South Dakota. But my grandparents moved off of the Res to live in Oregon. There was this huge, like, migration of people in the 50s and 60s leaving the res to go. To go west. And so people settled in la, in the Bay Area, and up in like Eugene and Portland area. So there's a whole group of like Native people from some of the like, Missouri river region that are settled in the west and raise their families out there. So that's why I grew up in Oregon and I knew a bunch of these Native folks, these elders who came to Portland to be background on the pilot. It was such a, like, full circle comedy moment for me to be like, oh my God, we get to. I get to make a TV show. I mean, this is back when I thought it was going to get made. And I was like, I get to make a TV show, like, with my own community of people and like bring in people from my childhood, which would have been so dope. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they were so honored to like, be around Rachel Dratch. I mean, like, listen, this is like, people don't have, you know, Native people. We have, we. We get nothing we don't have when it comes to, like, being around stars and having our own stars and stuff like that. So this, it was a really special experience.
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A
Yeah, they were, they were super sweet. So Jana, how. How woo woo are you and I know you're going to talk about a few Lakota woo woo things.
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D
You know, I do think it's. It's really interesting because, listen, I love woo shit. And I. And I. And I toy with it in a way that is like, ooh, let me explore the white people's version of this, because I do think that woo woo, it's a term that encompasses sort of like the earnest spiritualism. There's also, like, I. I, like, learned about sort of the, like, spiritualist and New Age movement that happened, like, in the Northeast of America and how, you know, this. The sort of, like, psychic medium movements of, like, the. The 1800s and moving into, like, what we have now, which is, like, we have, like, psychic institutes and shit all over, like, dotting the Northeast, which. Love. I think I'm probably prone to it because I'm a Native person and was raised with an awareness of my spiritual, I guess, roots or the, like, legacy of the Lakota people, which is like, praying to and honoring, like, the earth and the water and the. And our living, you know, like, our. Our relatives. And there's, like, a lot of. I could go on and on about what it means to be a Lakota person who is practicing our ways.
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A
Yeah.
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D
But I live in Los Angeles now, and so, you know, I have the pulse on sort of what's. I have a pulse on probably what is a little bit more of a toxic, like, appropriated. And I grew up in Oregon, you know, Portland and Eugene, like, has a lot of this, like, hippie culture and people who claim to be Native American or a certain percent of Native, so that it, like, kind of justifies their appropriation of certain things. But, you know, my people are like Sundance people. We are like people who do sweats to pray. Like, sweat, you know, going. Being in a sweat lodge or, you know, praying that way. And we have a lot of different rituals and ceremonies and stuff that are, like, you know, specific to the Lakota people. But. But really, like, to put it plainly, we pray to. It is like a. I would say, like, it's not monotheistic or polytheistic because we're not praying to gods in the sky. Rather, the belief that, like, everything has life and that we are all connected to that life and that that life is, like, is founded in a system of reciprocity. So, like, we can't just take. We. In order to create balance, we have to also give back and, you know, be responsible stewards of our natural environment, which is how we sort of got to today. You know, I think Native people are often tokenized as being really woo woo. Like, like, I think Native people are considered to be like woo woo generally because we don't pray to Jesus Christ or something. I don't know. But I think the reason that our, our, you know, spiritual practices get appropriated so frequently is because I think that non Natives see a purpose in like praying to, you know, you can't deny that, like, our world is magical and our natural world is quite miraculous. And the stories that we tell to explain the origins of humankind and what happens to us after we die are like, you know, they're very similar, like, to other faiths and, and they're not, they're not incorrect. Like, it's easy to believe in. Really.
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A
Yeah, this is really resonating. Like last week we had, or two weeks ago, we had a practicing witch on. And I mean, a lot of what she was saying. Well, we've talked a lot about, especially right now, like topically speaking, how feminine energy and, you know, worship or regard or respect for nature is so lacking right now in the mainstream voices, you know, and so it just, it just resonates with me. Like it's such a basic yet profound thing to respect, respect, honor, even worship the earth. Yeah.
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D
And to learn from it. Like, I think that, like, that I think the original witch culture is just a very matriarchal understanding of the natural world, taking care of it, being in reciprocity with it, and learning how to use the earth to heal. And that's like. I was listening to some, some stories yesterday to, you know, in preparation, I was listening to this storyteller that is in my community, had recorded some things on a podcast that we share. You know, he was telling the story of the Wakan, which is like the Thunder Beings in our Lakota ways. Like the Thunder Beings are like, they come from the west and they are these beings and they, they basically, if you think about thunder and lightning and like the storms that come in from the west winds, they cleanse the earth. They're like very sacred, they're very important. And this man was talking about the reason we call them Thunder beings is lightning is a moment, you know, thunder, like the sound of thunder and like the resonance of thunder is what really attracts us to it. And he was saying that like lightning is scientifically quite cleansing. You know, when lightning strikes the ground, it infuses the ground with this huge burst of nitrogen which helps regrowth in the earth. And that like, if it causes a fire, that fire burning is good for the earth. It like Helps to infuse the earth with that important nitrogen. Like, burns are a part of a sacred practice. You know, like cultural burnings that, like, help maintain the earth. And like, you know, just like these very scientific, like, early biology that is like, of course you would consider it spiritual because of course, the people that were living on, in the prayer on the prairie, my ancestors were like, oh, when lightning strikes it and it rains and it thunders, it cleanses the air, it feels, you know, and then things start to grow where the lightning struck. And, you know, it's just like an important part of, like, the natural world. Anyway, point is, you know, we learn. We. We're so. We're so cut off from that now because we live in little boxes and we, like, are obsessed with our little boxes and we don't really go outside. But, like, of course you learn, like, when a tree gets a wound, a SAP comes out and it heals it and it creates new bark. You know, it's like du.
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A
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D
Let me say that again.
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B
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D
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B
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D
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B
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D
Exclusions apply. Seehomedepot.com Pricematch for details. The way that the Lakota people look at the natural world, you know, we don't look at it as a hierarchy. So it's not like humans are at the top of the pecking order of the, of the food system and every, you know, that animals are dumber than us. So they're down here and like rocks and mountains and shit. You know, it's like a mountain knows so much more than I know. Like even a whale, A whale beyond my comprehension. Like the, the intelligence that a whale has. So really we are. Humans are just another version of an animal. We are on the same fucking scale of, of being the, the winged creatures are just as important to our natural world. The turtles, the amphi, the, the four legged, like they, we all have a name for them and, and you know, there is less of a hierarchy. It needs, it doesn't need that level of management. And the patriarchy says we have to control, we have to manage. And, and therefore it positions our natural world as being unintelligent, as not being scientific.
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C
Oh, wow. I love that. And it also like, positions us so that we respect each other and there isn't this need to dominate. You know, everything is the same. I love what you said about a mountain. A mountain's been there since the beginning of time. It has seen things that we will never see within our lifetime. Like the, the. It's. It's interesting that you said that. I love that you said that. Yeah.
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A
I have a question in terms of like, I'm sort of the, I don't know, Lakota 101 for Dummies or whatever. But in terms of like this respect for animals and is like, I assume just from little snippets ever that's built into legends and lore that's told over and over. Is it also like, infused with sort of. I mean, not worship, but like a godliness to animals or like in the stories or.
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D
Huh. Well, I think that yes, of course, like, animals were the first here on the earth. You know, people are later. And, you know, our creation story, the Lakota people, is a white buffalo calf woman. And so woman who. A white buffalo calf turns into a woman. And this woman teaches these men, these like three men who are walking along the prairie how these. The seven ceremonies that we use, you know, she teaches. She teaches them that the way to be Lakota. Right. So our. Our creation story is matriarchal and the bison, the American buffalo, it was of course, extremely revered. We see the Buffalo Nation as its own tribal nation. Really. Like, you know, and they are like, they like, let people into the. The hierarchy of, you know, like, let people let. Let humans become, you know, sacred. And. And of course, if we look back, you know, stories are ways to create meaning, right? And like, the. The Bible's the same way. It's like these are, you know, we're telling stories, but like, we're trying to, like, make meaning of all this weird political shit that happened in this certain time period. And. And so our stories are how we created balance between us and the natural world. And the. What I love about our people is that it's so simple to. It's. It's simple. It's a completely different way of life. Of course, if we're. Sometimes the stories, like, you know, when you read like, Greek legends, you're sort of like, why? Why What? What. Why hubris? Like, why is that the. But. But we're taken out of con. It's taken out of context. You don't understand what it's like to live in that culture at that time.
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C
Right.
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D
But. But like, we lived amongst the bison. And part of the genocide of the Lakota people was this mass extinction, this mass massacre of the bison when the westward. It was a literal attempt to get rid of us, the people, by killing our food source, our clothing source. You know, we were so in. In step with the. The bison herds. They were cultivated over generations. You know, we moved with the. Created the land. We. We helped build the landscape where the herds could graze, and we followed them as in their migratory pattern. We lived with them, we lived in partnership with them. And it's how we had our entire life. Everything we used, we ate. We. You know, this is like, these are our relatives. These. This is that reciprocity. And so, yeah, when our. When Our food source was completely like, almost. The bison almost had an extinction. You know, it was like a mass extinction event that happened because the. The US Government were trying to, like, move us off our land so that they could mine for gold. They. They did a mass cull of the bison herds. They invited people from the west and from the east to come to, you know, like, literally just like, freely hunt and shoot bison and take them for their fur, their pelts, you know, and their hide, and leave the meat. Yeah, just poaching. So it all, like, is part of our story. And it's. To me, it. It seems really simple. And of course, there's a ton of trauma around it. And also in terms of our own spirituality, there's a ton of trauma because we. We were not allowed to practice our dances or our songs or our religion until, like, 1972 or like the Religious Freedom Act. So we were. We were banned from practicing our cultural ways and put through boarding schools. You know, we have grandparents that went through boarding schools. And. And they were, they were trying to Catholicize us and.
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C
Right.
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D
And they, they were, they were successful. And. And a lot of our elder relatives, you know, and a lot of native people are, you know, Catholic practicing Catholics now. And so, so much was lost over the course of the genocide of. Of indigenous people. So much of that spirituality was lost. And now we have sort of white women in LA with their crystal shops saying, hey, I'm a. I'm a heyoka. Like, I'm a sacred clown, you know, like. Like that. Which is like, no, you're not. If I can't be, then you can't be bitch.
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C
Right? Right?
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A
No.
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C
Fuck. Yes. Yes to that. And you know what, it's interesting because, you know, there was that whole conversion epidemic, you know, where Catholicism came in, because there's obviously more control. And like you said, you're the Lakota people and tribe. It's a matriarchic society, and that's where the roots are. And for, of course, Catholicism and Christians, it's a patriarchic society. Of course they. They put gold before people. This is the pro life camp right here. Right? They put gold before people. No problem.
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A
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D
We all know it's not a cookout
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A
without Oscar Mayer and Heinz.
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D
To sort of like ground it in historical reality. The patriarchy coming into our culture was really, really detrimental because they used heads of family like the male heads of family. When, when the Jesuits came in, started to mission and catholicize these indigenous nations and then the US government followed suit. They created like the, the Dawes roles. And the Dawes roles are sort of like land allotment. So they created land allotment for people who were, had already been sort of like segregated to reservations in the late 1800s. And then they said, okay, well the men who are the heads of the household, the, the, the men, we assign land to the men and we're going to give you a surname and basically completely restructured the way that we exist in a family. And it placed the men at the top of our family in terms of importance, but it also took away the men's role. The men's role is to protect the family and to feed us and to hunt. But if you take our hunting away, what is their role if you take away our need for protection? Because we're now all sorts of slammed with each other in this tiny little plot of land on reservations, basically imprisoning us. None of us are safe. There's no way to protect us, you know, like the truly. So the patriarchy fucked us in so many ways, and it fucked our men up as much as it did our women. Our men became extremely vulnerable to this real. What we see today, like the male loneliness crisis. Um, but they've been stripped of their own power too, you know, so it is true for everyone that the patriarchy, like, it's. It's a cage and we are all sort of like. Until we adjust our mindset and actually, like, re rig the system. It's kind of. Anyway. Yeah, so that's a long.
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A
No, it was very informative. I was gonna ask you about. Well, you mentioned the seven.
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D
Seven ceremonies. Yeah, yeah, there's. There's like, seven ceremonies. They, you know, I won't mention them all, but they are all like, you know, there's like, maturity ceremonies for men and women. There are. There's like the inipi, the sweat, and that's like a healing ceremony. There's, you know, there's a naming ceremony called Hunka, which is like, throughout someone's life. They could have many different names, but, like, if a big event happens, you know, like, you can hold a ceremony for someone to honor them. And hunka is really beautiful. It brings. Somebody wants to give you a new name. That means that you're now part of their family, too. So it doesn't have to be, like, within your own family giving you a name. Yeah, there's like, you know, it's sort of like, if I were to compare it to Catholicism, it would be. There's like, you know, the baptism, the confirmation. Confirmation, the.
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A
The.
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D
The sacrament. You know, it's like all of these different ways of being that help to create a little bit of, you know, order also, like markers of time and what have you.
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A
And do you participate in any rituals on a regular basis or.
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D
Yeah, there's like, annual sun dances and stuff. An epis, like the sweat, when I need it, you know. Can you.
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A
Can you talk about the sweat ceremony or. I'm.
- [32:06]
C
Yeah, just curious.
- [32:07]
D
Yeah, I can't really go into detail because people will steal it, but.
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A
Oh, gosh, yeah, whatever. You feel comfortable in general.
- [32:15]
D
Totally.
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A
Yeah.
- [32:17]
D
A sweat is really, like, going into A lodge and praying with songs and, you know, speaking out loud and really meditating. And you're, you're in essentially like an, a sauna, a dirt, a dirt ground sauna. And you're steaming yourself, so. And it's really hot. And you, you don't leave and you, you do it for four rounds of songs and prayer. And you, you're in there, you're in the dark. You can't, you know, there is no light. So you're just really like, alone with your thoughts and other people's thoughts. And it's a really sacred space and a prayerful space. And your eyes, it's, your eyes are watering, your nose is watering, you're coughing things up, you're. You're sweating. So, yeah, in many ways it is like, you know, a classic sauna, which I think a lot of cultures and a lot of indigenous cultures have their versions of a sweat. A lot of different tribal nations use it as a cleansing ceremony. But it's healing. It's a healing and it's, it's like not only purging ourselves of, you know, whatever we're struggling with, but it is a purge. You can pray on behalf of other people as well. If somebody in the family is ill and you really want to, like, be in a very, I think it's like just really, you are just in a very prayerful space. You know, you're kind of taken out of the element of just be walking around on the earth. You, you're sitting on the earth. You are, you're grounded, you're. You're in the dark, you're in yourself, but you're also, you can't help but be out, out of your body. You get to leave your body. You get to, like, be in a really meditative space. And also you're just aware that, like, ooh, am I going to survive this? Like, it's tough.
- [34:24]
C
How long is it, Jenna?
- [34:26]
D
I think it, it can go, it can go for anywhere from like a half hour to an hour. It kind of depends on sort of what the group looks like, what is needed, how big the group is. And, you know, there's always. There's a person who runs the sweat, like a medicine person who runs the sweat. They will help to determine how long it takes. But there's this whole pre work that goes into it, and then you're in the sweat. And then after the sweat, there's a way to, like, be outside of the sweat when you're done. And yeah, it's just like a really. It's a really beautiful, like, I don't know, it's just a really beautiful way to pray. And you're praying to the earth, you're praying to the sky. You're praying to like, you're praying to your own people. Like, I often pray to my own, like, past grandparents and my ancestors and I really want them to like, help me and guide me. And that's another thing about, I think the Lakota people is that like, I, I feel like there's a more of a. I don't know how to put it into Western ideology, but I guess like, reincarnation is the more scientific understanding of the world that when we die, we go into the earth and we sprout new growth and, you know, we become something else. You know, like that is the natural order of things anyway. So I do think that, like, there is a kind of a ghostiness, like an inherent, an inherent woo woo. Part of being a Lakota person is that like, our ancestors have no problem walking amongst us. And there is like a very strong recognition for vision, for dreaming. There's a really strong acknowledgment for the mystery of death and birth and rebirth. Yeah. And being able to acknowledge that we don't just disappear and go into nothingness. We are the stars. We are made of the stars.
- [36:37]
C
I want to say that also just goes back full circle to we are the same as animals and Earth because we are rebirthed into this. Because you go back into the ground, so you become part of the earth and the animals feed on the earth and like, it's a, it's a cyclical thing. I love that. It, it, to me, it's like a very full circle moment.
- [36:58]
D
Yeah. It makes, it makes scientific sense as much as it does spiritual sense to me. You know, it's sort of like that's what you learn from the Earth. So that's true.
- [37:12]
A
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- [39:23]
D
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- [39:37]
A
How?
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D
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- [39:49]
A
That's the science of wow.
- [39:50]
D
Colgate Optic White.
- [39:56]
A
Have you ever had any sort of prophetic dream or like some sort of like standard woo Woo experience? And if not, that's fine.
- [40:05]
D
I love putting myself into Woo experiences. I've always been a heavy dreamer. So it started really when I was young and being like God, I dream about things and then they happen or like, and it's not like important stuff.
- [40:18]
A
But yes, I've had Some of that too.
- [40:21]
D
Yeah. Where it's like my dreams mean something and sometimes I really feel like my. My secret belief is that when I dream I am going to a different dimension. I believe it because I really feel like I'm there. It to me, I'm like, well, if it feels like I'm there in my mind, then I am. I don't know. That just makes sense to me. So, yeah, I exist in all of these different, like, dimensions, and I'm having experiences at night. Sometimes I'll. Oftentimes they're stressful, and oftentimes, especially lately, they're in the theat setting where I'm lo remembering my lines and I'm just improvising and going ahead and executing. Thank God, because I used to have dreams where I. I wasn't executing and I was failing. But, you know, I. I am a heavy dreamer and rely on my dreams and believe in them. And I also, like, love going to see when I can afford it. Sort of a psychic medium. I've had my star chart read a few t times, like my birth chart read a few times, done tarot a few times.
- [41:35]
A
Has any of one of those blown your mind on some sort of reading or prediction or. I don't know if it.
- [41:40]
D
If anything has ever, like, stuck out or blown my mind. One time a. The first time I got my star chart read was when I was. I think it was like, in 2012 or something, but it was in. I was living in New York City. My friend and I got our star charts read for our birthdays, which are close to each other, and Irene's gonna
- [42:00]
A
want to guess your sign, so don't say what happen.
- [42:02]
C
Idea.
- [42:02]
A
I have an idea yet, but go ahead.
- [42:04]
C
No, I won't.
- [42:05]
D
Okay. I won't say when my birthday is. Okay. I've always had, like, a sort of a difficult time with relationships with men, so I haven't had a lot of luck, you know, And I. In New York especially, you know, I was like, in a comedy community. I'm sure you can relate, Rachel. It's just like, you know, you're. Yeah. You know, you're seeing. You're seeing men of such low caliber getting chuckle fucked day in and day out.
- [42:32]
A
And you're like, wait, I've never heard that chuckle. Okay, sorry. Continue. Never heard that.
- [42:39]
D
You know, when a young hot woman with a lot of potential but maybe is, like, trying to break into the improv scene gets taken advantage of by a nerdy, fat, weird man. Improv improv teacher who wears bad shoes that's chuckle fucking. And I never got chuckle fuck. I was just like, why? I'm funny. I'm. I'm attractive, like, to the. To the naked. I don't know, like, whatever. I'm. I am. I'm normal, but I just was sort of, like, frustrated and. But I also, like, didn't. I've never really trusted men. And. And so I just have this weird situation with men. And my star chart, she said, as far as relationships, she goes. And I. I don't know why. I'll never forget this, but she said, in your star chart, it says that you may have experienced either in this life or another one, domestic violence. And I was like, that makes sense to me. I don't know why. I have not. I've not personally, thank God, experienced, you know, anything, you know, any domestic violence, but I come from a. People who struggle with a ton of domestic violence. And there's certainly domestic violence in. In my family, as there is in every family, and there's, you know, so it's just like, yeah, like, it wasn't like, you're gonna struggle with relationships. It was more like it gave a little bit of meaning to, like, oh, why am I so distrustful? And. And it just, like, it really, like, shocked me. I was like, oh, to, like, hear that somebody else sees in me something that is not necessarily part of my personality.
- [44:22]
A
I don't know. It resonated somehow. Yeah.
- [44:24]
D
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [44:25]
A
Interesting. Wow.
- [44:27]
D
So that was cool. But, yeah, I had a. I saw a medium who was talking to my grandfather who had passed. He was saying, like, something about a document that in a few years, I'm going to create a document, either a book or like a. A big piece of writing. And. And I wrote my first movie, like, a few years later, and I hadn't thought of that. And. And my friend who I went to see this medium with, she was like, you did it. You, like, wrote your. You wrote a movie. That's your document? And I was like, oh, yes, yes. So I don't know, you know, sometimes I'm like, is that. Was that predicted or was that.
- [45:04]
C
Was that inspiring and impetus for you to actually step on it? Yeah, either way, I don't know. You got it done.
- [45:10]
D
You got her done, sweetie, listen, I'll take anything.
- [45:15]
A
Wait. I wanted to ask you about this clown, the merry. The Merry Prankster character that you had mentioned before.
- [45:25]
D
The Merry Prankster of the Lakota people is. Is a heyoka. But it's actually the reason I. I was before, for the listener, before we Got on the pod. I was texting with Rachel yesterday that maybe I can talk about the Heyoka role in. In the Lakota way. But then I was like. Because I looked up on my podcasts, I typed in. In the search heyoka, and you know what came up? A bunch of weird white woo woo. Like podcast. I. I press play on one, and it was this white man talking about how he is a. Is. Is a now a Heyoka, because he went through this, like, huge trauma and then he, like, became a Heyoka. And I was kind of like, again, no. If I don't get to be it, you don't get to be it, sir. So sorry. You can't just take something. You can't just be like, I'm a priest.
- [46:20]
A
Right? Right.
- [46:21]
D
I ate a cracker and I drank a little sip of wine, and now I'm a priest. Guys, you can't just do that. Like, you can't. And I think any spiritual practice would say that. Like, I. And I don't think it's like, especially cruel or anything to. To. For Lakota people or any native person to be like, you can't have it. Sorry.
- [46:40]
C
Yeah, absolutely. And it's like, you know what, you do ayahuasca once you're a shaman. That's ridiculous.
- [46:46]
D
Exactly. It's like, you can't. You can't. Like, please. Anyway, exactly.
- [46:52]
A
But I have a question. Is. Is it a role somebody plays or is it like a lore figure?
- [46:56]
D
No, it's a. It's a. It's a spiritual figure. It's like. It's a healer. So it is a healer who. I'll give you, sort of like the. The English version, the broad English version, instead of going into the story of the origin of the Heyoka. But it is a. A healing. A healing person who lives on earth with us there. I think that there are like. Like it's known that there are no very few Heyoka people left in Lakota culture, which is why I'm like, there's definitely not any white ones then. But the Heyoka role is a healer, and they use humor to mess up the natural order. So it is a clown, and it is a. A person who rides a horse backwards or put. Puts on their clothing inside out or does things that we have experienced backwards in order to. In reverse, essentially in order to sort of defy the. The norm.
- [48:02]
C
Rebellion in a way that's beautiful.
- [48:04]
D
It's like. It's like a performance of rebellion and a performance of disrupting the order of things. And it's often Funny. And we know that laughter is healing. We. We understand laughter to be medicine. We understand that, like, laughter evokes, like, a serotonin boost, that it actually is, like, part of the healing process is, like, humor and laughter and light. And so oftentimes, the Heyoka healer was a very burdened person. A person who was very, like, in. In their life was like. Like, sort of like burdened by the pressures of healing. You know, a healing person in the Lakota way is not a peaceful per. It's not a person who is like, I'm living a great life, and I'm traveling the world and healing people. It's a burdened responsibility. You're around sick people. You're around people who are struggling with trauma. You're like, there's a lot of pressure to be a healer, to help people through hard things. And. And to do it with humor is especially challenging. You know, to have. To have, like, that put put upon you. And in a Heyoka person is not just choosing to be a heyoka. They have a dream or they have a vision, and it is a specific vision or specific dream that helps, that informs them, hey, you're unfortunately, yeah, you're. You're unfortunately, you have a calling. And it is to be a healer, and it is to be this specific kind of healing and it. And for the family, it's kind of quite sad if you have a person in the family who is like, I
- [49:48]
A
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- [51:31]
B
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- [52:35]
A
Is the Heyoka, like, were they called in because like, oh, this person's having a problem or were they just kind of like wandering through society like, hey guys, look, I'm riding the horse backwards. Or were they coming for like a task or just like, they're like,
- [52:50]
D
I think a task, I think a task. I think, well, you know, a task also like if, if I again like I've never experienced Heoka in my life, so I don't know, but I'm assuming a task, a healing task, but also a, a sort of a grander storyteller where they're like, listen, I'm. I'm going to perform the reverse of what's happening to like I imagine like you know, during our genocide, during like our, our sort of our colonization event that the Heyoka role was probably hunted deeply because our people relied on them. But also like I imagine them trying to help, help make sense of what was happening to our people and help make sense of what was to come. And so I think storytelling was a big part of that. I think that, like, you know, the performance of reversal, the performance of humor was really integral to, like, our survival as people. It still is. You know, being funny, being funny and being native are like the same thing. And I think that, like, you know, it's why, like, city Indians, our show was like, we were so deeply bummed that it didn't go because native people in Hollywood are depicted as this stoic, spiritual, woo woo ass people. But we are so funny because we have survived so much, and we're. We're clinging on to any, like, bit of hope that we can, you know, so.
- [54:25]
C
Right, right. It's. It reminds me of, like, in. In the Greek culture, it's like the tragedy births comedy, the mass tragedy and comedy. You can only have humor as a survival mechanism them to pain.
- [54:37]
D
Exactly. And I think that that is sort of that heyoka in the same way that a clown has turned tragedy or political tragedy or what have you, you know, sort of making fun of power.
- [54:50]
A
Right.
- [54:51]
D
You know.
- [54:51]
A
Oh, my gosh.
- [54:52]
D
Performing reversal to power. Yes, yes.
- [54:54]
C
Satire, Exactly. Satire. Like, and I love that verse and.
- [54:59]
D
Yeah. Wow.
- [55:00]
A
I'm so glad that. That I asked that. Like, it was so interesting.
- [55:03]
D
I know, I know, I know.
- [55:05]
A
I didn't know anything about that. But I love the. The tie in with the more deep ish, like, more deeply seated need for this reverser. Totally streaking truth to power and comedy. Comedy 100.
- [55:21]
C
Comedy 100.
- [55:24]
A
Okay, quickly. Even though I could ask you, like, 10, 000 more questions. Jenna is so interesting. Irene, quickly. Do you want to guess? Janice, sign. And then three.
- [55:34]
D
And.
- [55:34]
C
Okay, no, let's do peny, but let me do three. I'm thinking three. Okay, I might. I'm gonna go with either Scorpio, Sagittarius, or Leo. Which one are you?
- [55:42]
D
Scorpio.
- [55:43]
C
I knew it.
- [55:44]
A
That was my.
- [55:45]
D
You're good. You're good. Thank you. How did you know that? Yeah.
- [55:51]
A
How would Drachi get so excited?
- [55:54]
C
Scorpio. Scorpio energy. You want to know why this is a big. Okay, so I'm a. I'm a comedian, and I know a lot of comedians that are a standup, though not. Not sketch. And I know a lot of really that you remind me of that are. Are comedians. They have a very. See, to me, scorpions are very funny, but they're also very deep. They're together like certain fire signs. So they're not a fire sign. But they're always funny and they're deep, and they have strong opinions. It's a beautiful thing. Believe me, sweetie, when I tell you. And I knew right away. She's a Scorpio. I'm back, baby.
- [56:25]
D
Wow.
- [56:26]
A
You're back in business, Irene.
- [56:28]
D
Holy shit. You're good.
- [56:30]
A
You're on a roll. A roll of one, but a roll.
- [56:33]
D
I love you, sweetie, nonetheless.
- [56:35]
A
No, I think you. I think the last time we did a guess, you also got it. I think I don't. We'll go back at the archives.
- [56:42]
D
That's amazing, Irene.
- [56:43]
A
That really makes my day. Okay.
- [56:45]
C
I love you, sweetie.
- [56:46]
A
Now, first of all, I love this conversation. I can't even tell you. It was extraordinary. It was so good. Oh, my God.
- [56:52]
D
Thank you so much. I'm so glad we had. We got to do it.
- [56:55]
A
I love it because we cover so many different things, and, like.
- [56:58]
C
Yeah.
- [56:58]
A
I don't know. This is just something we've never really talked about, and it's just like.
- [57:02]
D
I don't.
- [57:02]
A
It seems so relevant, too.
- [57:03]
D
Like, a lot of the stuff relevant, and it's also the. The history of this land. It's the history of. Of, you know, the state. So we got it. We got hit on it.
- [57:12]
A
A lot of it can, like, inform current situations. Completely agreed to learning so much about the history and the buffalo and the mountain. The mountain. That might have to be the title, sweetie. I love the mountain. Knows more than me.
- [57:32]
D
Listen, the people who are.
- [57:34]
C
Rachel.
- [57:35]
D
Yeah. The people who are sort of protecting their mountain, the Mauna Kea, are the Kanaka Maoli, the Hawaiian indigenous people who were. Have been protecting their mountain from being exploited by a. A group of scientific researchers who want to put a giant, like, telescope on their mountain. That was years ago, but I feel like. I'm sure it's still ongoing.
- [58:00]
A
Yeah, that alone sounds like a. A movie. The Evil Scientists coming to. Anyway. Okay. Pendulum. Irene.
- [58:10]
D
Yes.
- [58:10]
A
Are you ready?
- [58:11]
C
I'm seeing it. Yes, I am ready.
- [58:14]
A
Okay.
- [58:14]
C
All right, go ahead.
- [58:17]
D
I am.
- [58:18]
C
I went right away. Mine went right away. Yes.
- [58:23]
A
I sidebar. Got a yes, too.
- [58:26]
D
Oh, you did?
- [58:27]
A
Yes.
- [58:27]
C
Yeah.
- [58:28]
D
And this is for the question that I was gonna ask.
- [58:30]
A
Yeah.
- [58:32]
D
But the question was, am I gonna sell this TV show that I'm pitching? Hey, get ready, biatch. Come on, Netflix. Come on. Come on, Netflix.
- [58:40]
A
Netflix.
- [58:41]
D
You heard the pendulum.
- [58:43]
C
I got Scorpio. Right?
- [58:45]
A
The pen has spoken.
- [58:46]
D
What role? Oh, I believe.
- [58:48]
A
Okay. Okay, good. Jana, thank you so much for joining us. This was so fun, and it was so good to see you again.
- [58:56]
D
So good to see you.
- [58:57]
A
And who knows, maybe after this episode airs, there'll be a new hunger for the show. City Indians pilot already made. City Indians. Let's put it out there.
- [59:09]
C
Manifest Sweeties.
- [59:14]
A
And you, you can find me on Instagram at Ray Dratch. That's R A E Dratch. And you can find Irene at IreneBremis. That's B R E M I S Bremes. And thanks for listening. Thanks for joining me on this journey into the world of Woo Woo. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch is a Q code for the production executive produced by David Henning and Steve Wilson. Produced by Alexa Gabriel Ramirez, edited by Will Tendi.