Jenny Steingart and Heather Christian: Inspiration from the Other Side

Summary

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Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch

Episode: Jenny Steingart and Heather Christian: Inspiration from the Other Side

Date: October 1, 2025
Host: Rachel Dratch
Guests: Jenny Steingart (Ars Nova co-founder/producer), Heather Christian (composer, librettist)
Co-host: Irene Bremis

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Episode Overview

This engaging episode dives into the uncanny, heartfelt, and sometimes unexplainable intersection of creativity and the supernatural. Rachel Dratch welcomes theatre producer Jenny Steingart and composer/playwright Heather Christian to share profound personal stories regarding spirits, family, and inspiration from “the other side”—specifically, the spirit of Jenny’s late brother Gabe and his mysterious influence on both Ars Nova Theatre and Heather’s acclaimed piece, "Oratorio for Living Things." The conversation offers deeply moving anecdotes, artist-to-artist insight, and supportive skepticism, all set in Woo Woo’s signature balance of heart, humor, and curiosity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Personal Backgrounds & The Ars Nova Connection

[02:42 - 04:28]

• Rachel introduces Jenny Steingart, co-founder of New York’s influential Ars Nova Theatre, and Heather Christian, known for "Oratorio for Living Things."
• Jenny shares the origin story of Ars Nova, rooted in honoring her late brother Gabe—a brilliant musicologist, whose death inspired the theatre's founding. Gabe had planned a studio in a small building on W 54th St., which instead became Ars Nova.

“Just taking a really shitty situation and turning it into something that at least was additive and supportive of artists.”
—Jenny Steingart [06:37]

• The theatre’s mission emerges: fostering emerging artists and giving them a space to risk and fail.

2. Gabe’s Presence in the Ars Nova Building

[08:04]

• Jenny explains that although the Ars Nova building was newly constructed, many artists and staff reported sensing a benign but powerful “presence.” Some even joked about Gabe still inhabiting the space.
• Such stories became part of the theatre’s lore—sometimes playful, sometimes deeply meaningful, especially for Jenny.

3. Heather Christian’s Mystical Lineage & Her Ars Nova Experience

[12:43 - 16:35]

• Heather outlines her family’s history of “woo woo” women—migraines, musical talent, and mediumship, skipping her mother but affecting her, her grandmother, and great-grandmother.
• Upon her arrival at Ars Nova as a commissioned artist for what would become "Oratorio for Living Things," Heather experiences physical symptoms and an overpowering sense of “something else” in the writing loft.
• Unaware of Gabe’s story, Heather brings in palo santo to smudge the space, honoring the presence as a sacred rather than threatening entity.

“Sometimes when I’m writing a song, it feels like something else is talking to me… That's how it comes.”
—Heather Christian [14:17]

4. Artistic Collaboration Across the Veil

[17:24 - 18:38]

• Heather describes a pivotal moment: listening to Carmina Burana one day, she’s inspired to shape her work as a classical oratorio, and suddenly creative blockages dissolve.
• She feels both buoyed and pressured by a presence she likens to a demanding, opinionated guardian angel who pushes her to daring artistic heights—later revealed, shockingly, to be Gabe.

“Whatever this… spirit was that was in Ars Nova was like, yes, yes, yes. Let's go, let's go. Let's do classical music. Let's do it.”
—Heather Christian [17:54]
“For people listening in theater, that is like lightning speed.”
—Jenny Steingart [18:17]

5. The Night of the Oratorio—A Tangle of Synchronicities

[21:58 - 29:17]

• Jenny recounts attending "Oratorio for Living Things" and, notably, finding an inexplicable empty seat beside her in a sold-out house. She feels and smells Gabe’s distinct scent—a sign of his presence.
• The oratorio includes a prominent section on “entropy”—a word Gabe first introduced her to, and a concept linking cosmic and existential order and chaos.
• Additionally, a theme of sibling love runs through the piece, echoing Jenny and Gabe’s bond.

“I felt and smelled Gabe all of a sudden. And it was as if that empty seat was for Gabe and that he had come to watch it with me.”
—Jenny Steingart [28:25]

6. Postscript: Shared Realization of the “Haunting”

[34:55 - 39:31]

• The two artists discover, only after the performance and a further show by Heather ("Animal Wisdom"), the full overlap of their stories. Neither had told the other about their supernatural experiences with Gabe’s presence, leading both to a sense of awe at the “parallel” nature of their connection.
• Rather than fear, this haunting is depicted as playful and inspiring—a beneficent force sustaining Ars Nova’s mission.

“The idea that Gabe had a hand in some way, whether it was really just inspiration for Heather … I believe for all artists, they channel at times anyway.”
—Jenny Steingart [41:17]

7. The Nature of Artistic Channeling & Gabe’s Personality

[45:03 - 51:34]

• Rachel inquires if Heather ever felt direct creative transmission from Gabe. Heather shares that Gabe’s presence was more about emboldening her, demanding she own her talent and vision.
• Jenny confirms the accuracy of Heather’s sense of Gabe: “He did not suffer fools lightly ... He was full of opinions ... Really challenging in lots of ways.”
• Both recognize how rare it is for “nerds about Latin and physics and music” to find each other—implying the “match” was spirit-guided.

8. Epilogue: Fated Connections, Spirits, and Family Organs

[59:17 - 62:49]

• The hosts and guests marvel at the seemingly destined sequence of their collaboration. Jenny relates a parallel story of manifesting a stranger next to her on a plane: “What are the chances? … 100%.”
• A final jaw-dropping revelation: Heather grew up in a haunted house built by an organist; Jenny’s family managed a memorial organ concert series for Gabe in his honor. A “fated” connection is delightfully unearthed.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On turning grief into creation:
  “It was a way of taking… the biggest lemonade stand you could find…”
  —Jenny Steingart [06:37]

• On inherited 'Woo Woo':
  “I am the next on a matrilineal line of migraine suffering musicians who all talk to dead people.”
  —Heather Christian [13:32]

• On spirit collaboration in art:
  “Sometimes when I’m writing a song, it feels like… something else is talking to me.”
  —Heather Christian [14:17]

• On Gabe’s presence in the theater:
  “It was as if that empty seat was for Gabe and that he had come to watch it with me.”
  —Jenny Steingart [28:25]

• On the feeling of serendipity vs. fate:
  “‘What are the chances that we would have been seated next to each other…?’ And she just looked at me and she went, 100%.”
  —Jenny Steingart [57:42]

• On artistic bravery imposed by the spirit:
  “There was something about Gabe's… channel was Gabe going, like, you're a big deal. …deal with it.”
  —Heather Christian [47:25]

• On the “haunted” but inspiring Ars Nova building:
  “It's never been like a scary thing. It's always been sort of a playful, comforting thing, I think.”
  —Jenny Steingart [39:31]

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Important Timestamps & Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Quote | |-------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:42 | Rachel introduces Jenny and Heather, origin story of Ars Nova | | 04:28 | Jenny's tribute and connection to brother Gabe | | 08:04 | Sensing Gabe's presence in Ars Nova | | 12:43 | Heather’s family lineage of mediums/migraines | | 16:35 | Heather brings palo santo, recognizes a spirit in the writing loft | | 17:54 | “Yes, yes, yes! Let’s go…”—Heather’s revelation and creative breakthrough | | 21:58 | Jenny attends Oratorio, finds inexplicable empty seat, feels Gabe’s presence | | 28:25 | “It was as if that empty seat was for Gabe…”—Jenny reflects on the moment | | 34:55 | Jenny & Heather realize the overlap of their “haunting” stories | | 41:17 | Art as channeling, artists as open receivers | | 47:25 | Heather describes Gabe’s spirit as assertive, creatively emboldening | | 53:43 | Shared sense of the fated connection/friendship | | 59:17 | 100% serendipity story from Jenny | | 60:37 | Shocking organist connection; Heather’s haunted childhood piano/organ story |

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The Woo Woo Epilogue: Pendulum Readings

[66:00 - 68:53]

• Jenny and Heather both participate in the closing ritual—yes/no pendulum questions.
• Jenny asks, “Are people going to buy tickets to see Oratorio and Ginger Twinsies?” Both pendulums say yes.
• Heather asks if her parents will sell their notoriously haunted house next year; pendulums say yes, though the house’s history looms.

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Takeaways & The Woo Woo Factor

• The conversation demonstrates how grief, creativity, family, and the supernatural intertwine—sometimes in ways that feel undeniably “meant to be.”
• Both Jenny’s and Heather’s stories reinforce the idea that art can act as a vessel for things—people, feelings, even spirits—that persist beyond the veil.
• The episode’s tone skillfully balances skepticism and openness, humor and awe—capturing the ethos of “Woo Woo” perfectly.

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Where to Experience the Magic

• Oratorio for Living Things returns to Signature Theater (previews from Sept 30, opens Oct 16, runs through Thanksgiving).
• Ginger Twinsies runs at the Orpheum Theater, offering comic counterpoint to the oratorio’s profundity.

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Final Thoughts

Whether you’re an ardent skeptic or spiritual seeker, this episode offers a moving meditation on how the presence of lost loved ones—and the mysterious currents of the universe—can continue to inspire, provoke, and sustain art and life. Both funny and deeply touching, this is a must-listen for anyone who’s lost someone, made something beautiful out of grief, or just likes their podcasts with a healthy dose of the unexplainable.

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Transcript

[Rachel Dratch]

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[Rachel Dratch]

Welcome to Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch, the podcast that explores the unexplained with humor and and curiosity. Hello and welcome to Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch, here with my pal and co host, Irene Bremis. Hi Irene.

[Jenny Steingart]

Hi, sweetie.

[Rachel Dratch]

Hi. Well, Irene, today we have two guests, which is unusual. I think we've only done this once before, but my friend Jenny Steingart is here. Hi, Jenny.

[Jenny Steingart]

Hi, Rachel.

[Rachel Dratch]

Hello.

[Jenny Steingart]

So happy to be here. We made it work.

[Rachel Dratch]

We made it work. Now, Jenny is the well co founder of a theater that's very important in New York, Ars Nova Theater. And if you live in New York, you may have heard of Ars Nova. It's a place where a lot of shows take off because the Ars Nova. Well, I'll let you explain Ars Nova in a moment. But anyways, that's how I know Jenny through this theater, Ars Nova. And she's gone on to produce many things that have gone on to Broadway and a few shows running right now. And we'll get to that in a bit. And we're also joined by Heather Christian, who is a composer and librettist and whose recent work Oratorio for Living Things played here in New York before and is now about to relaunch. So I'm excited cause I didn't get to see it last time and I'm excited to see it, especially now that I'm meeting you. So anyway, we have two artistes here, producers and artistes, Jenny and Heather and Irene. Hello.

[Jenny Steingart]

Hello. Hi ladies.

[Heather Christian]

How are you?

[Jenny Steingart]

So awesome to be here.

[Rachel Dratch]

So Jenny, I forget how this even came about, but I think somehow. How did this come about? That you're gracing us.

[Jenny Steingart]

We have quite a few mutual friends in addition to knowing each other and being friends. And I guess one of them must have mentioned to you in passing that I have had some Woo Woo experiences, and they're not usually things I talk about, but interestingly, they. I mean, my close friends certainly know about them and anyone who works at Ars Nova knows about them because they somehow overlap and intersect with Ars Nova and the Ars Nova building where the theater is. And that is how Heather comes into things, because she experienced something that happened when she was writing Oratorio. I can give you sort of a background about it in a moment. But anyway, you called me and we talked about my coming on, and I thought that Heather would be the most perfect person to join me because she also has her own with Woo Woo stuff, which she'll talk about. But should I give you sort of the.

[Rachel Dratch]

Yeah, sure. And by the way, I just want to say I know this is a personal story, so I want to, you know, thank you for coming and sharing this. We've had some really personal stories on here, and they do seem to resonate the most with listeners because, you know, everyone has lost someone special. And so I just want to thank you for sharing of yourself so much. So with that said, I guess you can take it away.

[Jenny Steingart]

Well, just to give sort of a Reader's Digest, in 1997, my brother Gabe, who was my younger brother and was a classical. And this is actually important to the story, a classical slash early music producer. He had a record label called PGM Pro Gloria Musicae for the glory of music in Latin. And he was a real lover of all the classics. He read Latin, he was a musicologist. He was very, very tied to that world. And he passed away unexpectedly and he had a brain aneurysm. And he had just purchased the land. It was a small building. This was in the 90s. There was a small building on 54th between 10th and 11th that had gone bankrupt. And he got it for a so and he was going to build recording studios and mastering studios in that space. And this is kind of part of the origin story of Ars Nova that we decided, my husband John and I, to use that space and create a theater, which we called Ars Nova, which means the New Arts in Latin. And Gabe had named the building, was going to be the Ars Nova Building. So that's how we took on that name. And we decided to create a space for artists, emerging artists who had not quite launched yet, and a place to nurture them where they could come and have space to fail. And over the years, it has become, I think, an important space for artists in New York and even across the country. And we have gone on to launch people who, when they started, no one knew who they were. And now the world knows who they are. And it's been incredibly exciting. And for me, on a personal level has felt that my brother Gabe, that his life and his death ultimately had created new art in the world. And it was a way of taking, you know, we used to joke, it's like the biggest lemonade stand you can find, but just taking a really shitty situation and turning it into something that at least was additive and supportive of artists.

[Rachel Dratch]

Just for context, for listeners who might not. No Ars Nova. Can we just mention a few of the people and shows that have come out of there just before we.

[Jenny Steingart]

Sure, yeah. I mean, it's. People like Lin Manuel Miranda came right after a few years after Wesleyan and Freestyle Love supreme started there and launched and Bridget Everett and Billy Eichner and a million Pulitzer Tony winning writers and comedians. And it's been really very exciting. And all through this, over the years, I have felt certainly a connection in my own life. And this would be a whole other episode, but the number of things that happened to me after Gabe died where I felt his presence and really things that sort of shifted the way I thought about the other side. And again, that's like a story for another day. That's part two. But.

[Rachel Dratch]

Or it could be the long version of this episode. It could be the long version. Don't hold back if you want to, but go ahead.

[Jenny Steingart]

Over the years, over the years at Ars Nova, in the building and it was a building that we built, that was ground up construction, so no one had ever lived there before. So it's not like it was haunted by, you know, ghosts of Christmas past. Like that just. It was a brand spanking new building. And over the years people would talk about how they felt a presence in the space. People who didn't even know the origin story. Like. And then of course, as people who did, kind of the joke around the office is if like something wacky happened, they'd be like, well, there's Gabe, you know, like all of it became sort of cool, playful. So fast forward many years after we built the building and Heather, who has been, who is, I'm just going to say genius, genius. And one of my all time favorite Ars Nova artists that we've ever had. And we have had thousands of them. And Heather is absolutely right up there in the top, top, top, top of my faves. We had been working with her, Heather, I don't know, on and off maybe for a decade probably, and had commissioned you. And ultimately she had a commission to write What? At the time, I don't know that there was a title or it wasn't a title. Oratorio for Living Things.

[Heather Christian]

No.

[Jenny Steingart]

And I'm gonna shut up in one minute and Heather's gonna talk. But just level setting here. Yeah. So she. We had commissioned her and we had so started the run of the show and got I don't even know how many performances, she'll tell us, but very few. And then Covid hit and so the show didn't end up happening. And then finally, in 2022, we did a run of what was to become Oratorio of Living Things. And it was so beautifully received. It was astounding. I mean, it was really something special. And was sold out and there were lines around the block. It. We did it at Greenwich House, which is a theater that Ars Nova operates as well. It's our second space and there was not a ticket to be had for this gorgeous show. So I'm gonna segue over to Heather to tell her side of what was going on. And then there's kind of a bookend of how we figured it out because we didn't realize.

[Rachel Dratch]

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[Jenny Steingart]

So, Heather.

[Heather Christian]

Yeah.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay.

[Heather Christian]

Hi. Hi. So I'm gonna qualify all of this with, like, two things. A. I'm a musician, so I sort of live in woo woo space despite my best efforts. And that woo woo space is like, I feel like I spend my life trying to figure out if I am, like, psychologically damaged or if something actually supernatural is happening to me. And both things can be true. And I feel. I like that we can move through this complex space. And that's fine. In addition to that, I am the next on a matrilineal line of migraine suffering musicians who all talk to dead people. Like, my grandma was a medium. My great grandmother was a medium. My great great grandmother was a medium.

[Rachel Dratch]

Whoa.

[Heather Christian]

And they all, like, had very different active interactions with the dead. Like, my grandma had a dream dog that used to visit her and tell her who was about to die. My great grandmother could just foresee events that were gonna happen. And when she died, she started appearing to everybody in the family, including me. So there's different ways that this manifests. I don't have conversations, like, talky, talky to dead people. I don't have that.

[Rachel Dratch]

You said your mother, too?

[Heather Christian]

Skipped my mom.

[Rachel Dratch]

Oh, skipped your mom. Okay, okay, okay. Sorry. Go on, go on.

[Heather Christian]

For some reason, skip my mom.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay.

[Heather Christian]

My mom also didn't get the migraines.

[Rachel Dratch]

Oh, that's crazy.

[Heather Christian]

Wow.

[Rachel Dratch]

Oh, my God.

[Heather Christian]

So I have these, like. Like, sometimes when I'm writing a song, it feels like I'm composing it with my brain. And then sometimes when I'm writing a song, it feels like something else is talking to me. And sort of. That's how it comes. Anyway, I grew up in the Deep south, so I. And, like, in haunted places. So. And when I came to New York, it was like, I didn't encounter very many haunted places for a while. So it had been about, like, seven years before I was in a truly haunted place, before I came to Ars Nova. And when I started working at Ars Nova, it took me a minute to figure out what was going on, because I would show up, up, and what would happen is I would go up into the loft, which is where they asked the writers to go, first of all, I didn't know any of this stuff that Jenny's talking about. I knew nothing. I had never met Jenny. It was like I did not know the origin story of Ars Nova. All I knew is I was a commissioned artist and I was supposed to write a thing. I would show up into this room, and inevitably, like, 20 minutes in, I would get nauseous. I would start to, like, spin, like. But it felt like I was being removed, like, from my body. I was like, I don't feel good up here. And in my brain, I'm like, am I having a nervous breakdown? Is it the lighting? Is the lighting weird and exhausting me? What's going on? And like, a month into this, I was like, oh, I think I know what it is. I think there's something here, actually. So once I sort of put that together, I was like, all right, well, I'm gonna do all the stuff that I was taught to do. I'm gonna bring my smudge stuff. I'm gonna, like, go talk to it. I'm gonna go talk to it. So what I like to do if I'm in, like, a space where there's something else, is I go into the room, I smudge it. I like to smudge with palo santo.

[Jenny Steingart]

Because it's sort of like a.

[Heather Christian]

You know, it's like a. Oh, you're a sacred thing. It sort of like, gives the demarcation of, oh, you're a sacred thing. You're a holy thing. Rather than, like, a sage is sort of like, go away.

[Rachel Dratch]

Oh, okay. What's it called? I've never heard of this. Palo santo.

[Heather Christian]

Palo santo.

[Rachel Dratch]

Is that a plant of some sort?

[Heather Christian]

It's like a wood. It's a wood from a South American tree.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay.

[Heather Christian]

It smells lovely.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay.

[Heather Christian]

So I go in with my palo santo, feeling like an absolute crazy person. But I'm alone, and of course, I'm, like, looking around going like, are they filming me? God, I hope they're not filming me, because this is nuts. And I went into the back room where I primarily felt this thing, and I was like, okay, I am here. You're here. I'm in your space. I'm in your space. I'm not going to be here forever. I am visiting. I'm trying to write this big thing. I'm trying to pull it out of my brain. I acknowledge that you're here. If we could, like, you know, become friends, that would be great. If we could just be friends. And, you know, as I did this, it was a daily ritual I started to get these feelings of, like, oh, I kind of want to help. I kind of want to.

[Rachel Dratch]

Like.

[Heather Christian]

I'm down. And at a certain point, what I was writing, I had this epiphany because I was. I used one day to listen to Carmina Burana. That's what I did. I listened to Carmina Burana all day in one of those studio days, and I was like, I think that this is a classical oratorio. And then immediately it was like, everything sort of changed. Everything sort of took off. I was like, the. Whatever this, like, spirit was that was in Ars Nova was like, yes, yes, yes.

[Jenny Steingart]

Let's go, let's go.

[Heather Christian]

Let's do classical music. Let's do it. And all of a sudden, it was like, everything happened very quickly. I had spent four years trying to concoct the show, and at that stage, between that day and when we opened was, like, nine months. So, like, it was very, very.

[Jenny Steingart]

So for people listening in theater, that is like lightning speed.

[Heather Christian]

Lightning speed, yeah. So there was, like, something there that I went in and I greeted every morning. And it felt like a. I don't. I don't know. I kept referring to it as like a guardian angel of, like, something that was behind me that was like, braver.

[Jenny Steingart]

Bigger.

[Heather Christian]

Here's some energy. Bigger. More complicated.

[Jenny Steingart]

Go, go, go.

[Heather Christian]

And I was just sort of, again, living with this. Like, maybe I'm insane, and I've given this to myself because I needed it in order to do this truly audacious thing. I mean, if you come to see oratorio, it's some esoteric stuff. Like, it's. I'm dealing with astrophysics and quantum mechanics and human memory. It's all embedded in a classical oratorio that uses V vocal fugue. Half of it's in Latin, but it's not austere. Right. Like, it's. It's still very, like, earthy and. And feels homespun to a certain degree. But all that aside, it's still pretty like, you know, I was making something for a musical theater audience. For a musical theater audience. Like, it is a pretty ballsy thing to put in front of them. And for some reason, I just was unafraid to do it. Anyway. Anyway, fast forward. Jenny comes to the show.

[Rachel Dratch]

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[Heather Christian]

Your teen adjective used to describe an.

[Rachel Dratch]

Individual whose spirit is unyield, one who navigates life on their own terms, effortlessly.

[Heather Christian]

They do not always show up on.

[Rachel Dratch]

Time, but when they arrive you notice.

[Jenny Steingart]

An individual confident in their contradictions.

[Rachel Dratch]

They know the rules but behave as if they do not exist.

[Heather Christian]

New Teen the new fragrance by Miu.

[Jenny Steingart]

Miu defined by you. So I had obviously had heard all about the show. I come to the show and I should say over the years I've had a lot of contact with my brother, with other folks on the other side through various means. And I can always feel Gabe when he's around me. Not only is it an energy, but but with Gabe in particular, it's a smell. I can walk into a room and know he's there because I smell him. It's a particular scent. And so anyway, I went with my friend Celia. We went to see Oratorio and we were.

[Rachel Dratch]

Wait, sorry, can I ask you one question? Before you went to see Oratorio, did you know that this process was happening for Heather?

[Jenny Steingart]

Nothing.

[Rachel Dratch]

Continue.

[Jenny Steingart]

Nothing.

[Rachel Dratch]

Continue.

[Jenny Steingart]

Okay. No, I knew nothing about it. And I should say again, you know Ars Nova and I love that Heather talked about like the guardian angel because besides Gabe's name being Gabe Gabriel, the Angel Gabriel. When we built the building we wanted, because we dedicated the building and the mission of Ars Nova to Gabe. And that was, for me, a way to have sort of like a living relationship with him in some way. So when you walk into the building, there's like a vestibule. And on the right side of that vestibule is a glass wall. And engraved in that wall is the logo that he had for his classical music label, which was an angel with headphones on listening to a Walkman. Because he died in the 90s. So there were still Walkmen around then. And it just says for G. So it always felt like Gabe was sort of blessing the space. And so I love that Heather said that. But so I knew none of this. I knew none of its background. I knew. I didn't know Heather was working upstairs in the loft. And I should also add in that loft. In those days, we called it the penthouse. Cause it was on the fourth floor. So we were like, the penthouse. Now it's the loft. But there's a piano up there that Heather was using that was. It's actually a player piano. It's a very kind of rare piano. It was Gabe's. And there is a story that Heather and I were trying to remember the details of. But there was some part that when we pieced everything together, which I'm about to sort of, you know, bring it around, but when we pieced it together, we realized Heather had at one point moved the piano. And clearly Gabe was not happy about the fact that she'd moved the piano. And he. However, he let her know. And he was an incredibly meticulous. Very, very had big opinions. So he clearly had a big opinion about the placement of his piano and let her know that.

[Heather Christian]

But anyway, it did not stay in that place for long. All I remember at this stage, like five years after the fact, is that we moved the piano to try some spatial stuff in the room. And the piano went right back to its original place. Like, the next day it was like. But it was also when I was going in in the morning to smudge, because I would smudge the back room and I would smudge the piano. I was like, for some reason, these are the two locations. The back room and the piano. And the cast thought the cast was. This was just something that people accepted. They were just like, what is Heather doing at 10am? Heather's talking to the ghost.

[Jenny Steingart]

So I knew nothing about any of this process. And, you know, I have spent the last two decades Seeing shows at Ars Nova and always trying to kind of. To make meaning of Gabe's passing by really sitting in and loving the fact that there's new art happening that in some way is tied to Gabe's passing. However, I don't think I was prepared for what was gonna happen when I went to see Oratorio. So we go. It's post Covid. We're in masks, and I'm sitting with my friend Celia. And it's. You know, as I said earlier, it was like, just a phenomenon. Like, people were going crazy to see this, like, half Latin oratorio. There were lines around the block for cancellations, like waiting lists. Like, you could not get a ticket, and so there was no world. And the seating. I don't remember how many. The way we redid the theater, it was very specific and very small. To make this happen in the right way, it had to feed 92 seats, so to say, like, there was not a seat to be had. Every seat was filled. So we sit down, and the show's about to start. And I realize Celia's on one side of me. There is an empty seat on the other side of me. And I kept thinking, like, when is this person gonna come? They're really pushing it. Cause the show's about to start, and the show starts, and no one is seated in that seat. And I can't wrap my head around it, because I saw the line outside where I know there were people waiting to get on the waiting list who would have been seated there, but for whatever reason. And I still didn't know very much about what I was going to see. I had deliberately stayed away. I wanted to, like, be surprised by what oratorio was. It was Covid coming out of COVID There wasn't an opportunity, so I didn't know what I was in for. But I felt and smelled Gabe all of a sudden. And it was as if that empty seat was for Gabe and that he had come to watch it with me.

[Heather Christian]

All the way downtown.

[Jenny Steingart]

All the. He schlepped downtown. Upper West Sider that he was. He schlepped downtown. And it makes me emotional even talking about it. He. I really felt him watching it with me, but the part that. That really blew me away because, again, it hadn't landed fully that that was going on. I just was like, that's odd. While we. While I'm watching, there is a part in the show, and there's a word that I had never heard until Gabe had told me years before, but there's a Word entropy. And Heather, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's really the idea that there was at some point perfect order and then it sort of devolves into ch. Is that fairly accurate?

[Heather Christian]

Yeah, entropy is like a state of complication. The entropy is like when you put cream in coffee, you have two, like, things that are at a low entropic state. And when you put cream in the coffee, the longer that the cream's in the coffee, the more it becomes creamed coffee. And when it's creamed coffee, you can't really separate the cream from the coffee. Again, that's a high entropic state.

[Jenny Steingart]

And the reason that's. And Gabe had talked to me about it years before, that it's actually a way oftentimes that like physicists will prove the existence of a higher being because I guess the universe is in an entropic state. So the idea that there was at some point perfect order and it is sort of moved into a less ordered position in the world, in the solar system, in the cosmos, is really interesting. So I had never heard that word. And I still clearly, it's not something I use every day. And it's certainly not a word that gets tossed around. And I'm sitting there and all of a sudden they start singing about entropy. And I was like, oh, hello, Gabe. And it felt so much like a message. And then on top of that, there's a theme in the show that Heather can speak to more, but a theme about a relationship between brother and sister. And you write about your relationship with your brother, is that right?

[Heather Christian]

Yeah. In oratorio we examine. It's about time. So we examine time at three scales. We examine time at the quantum scale, which is like dealing with like the building blocks of life on Earth as we know it after the great oxygenation period. And then we have a human act, which is all memories that I sourced via voice memos from anonymous people, like all over the globe that I've set to music and then set against each other. And of course I was like, well, I need to put some of mine in there just to, like, make it. And it didn't matter how, like, how deep I dug. I was like, what memory is gonna make sense in this context? The only things that I could think of that would make me emotional enough to like, talk about them in like a grounded, off cuff way while I was leaving myself. The voice memos were memories about my brother. And I was. And I just thought that was weird. And that's like a connection that I didn't make until like much later that like sibling sibling love is like a thing that was on my mind while I was there. And then the third and because the reason we get to entropy is because the third act is the cosmic act, time on a cosmic scale.

[Jenny Steingart]

And.

[Heather Christian]

Yes, the way that astrophysicists think about the world is that we were in a place of order and we're moving to a place of entropy. The way that the ancient Romans and Greeks like the way that Ovid thinks about the cosmos. Their origin stories are moving from chaos to order. So really we're talking about like two bookends of creation myths, both from modern astrophysicists and from like religions from time immemorial. So entropy makes a lot of sense whether you're talking about something scientifically or whether you're talking about something theologically in the same way that Latin does. Latin words are the root of a lot of scientific study, and Latin is sort of a foundational language, at least in like Christian traditions.

[Rachel Dratch]

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[Jenny Steingart]

When did making plans get this complicated. It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans, send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom 60th and never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Learn [e-mail] what's so crazy about it is that, first of all, as Heather talks about, sounds incredibly heady. And it's not to say that it's not heady, but it is also. It is so deeply universal. The show, it's kind of extraordinary. It just speaks to your heart. There is not a. A person that I know who saw that show that didn't come out and like, first of all, kind of gutted in the best way and just felt like it spoke to them. It's like a sound bath, first of all. You go in and that's the best way to, like, I could describe it is it. You just. It washes over you. And there are parts that. Yes, they're in Latin, so you don't understand. There are parts in English. You understand everything and it like sucker punches you because it's just the. The recognition of like, oh, that's me. That's my experience. It's so incredibly universal. So all of this was sort of washing over me and I was like in. I mean, the whole audience was in floods of tears and it was also coming out of COVID So I think just to be in an intimate space with other human beings felt so incredibly important also. But I was just not expecting any of this because it wasn't on my radar. And so I didn't even go in with like Confirmation Bias where I was like, looking for signs. It just like swept over me. And more than any show we've ever done at Ars Nova, I walked out and I thought this exists in the world because Gabe isn't here. And. And I still didn't know the story. I knew nothing about the background. I just. It was this incredible thought that something so glorious as what Heather has brought into the world, because it is truly. I think it is a masterpiece. I truly do. I mean, Heather knows I'm like. To say I'm an oratorio Heather Stan is an understatement. It is ridiculous. It's bananas how much I love her work. Love her, love her work, but love this piece in particular. But I really did just. It just washed over me that she had created something so singular. And I Have no doubt that she would have written and has written other extraordinary pieces in the same way that anyone who's come through Ars Nova. It's not like Ars Nova takes credit for their talent. Their talent is. Their talent would have been successful no matter what. But the trajectory, it's like the butterfly effect, right? Like, one thing affects the other. Gabe's passing affected the lives of all of these artists. And anyone who comes through Ars Nova to this day, it's only happening because he's not here. And while I would give anything for him to be here, obviously given that, I can't change that fact. I lean, and I think it's. I lean heavily into this narrative. It's been how I've lived my life. And I know it's been like, really part of our mission at Ars Nova that's kept us really on the straight and narrow of never sort of, quote, selling out and staying on mission. It's really been very much about how to support. And I walked out of there blown away. And then when Heather and I connected, I don't even remember, Heather, how we. How it, like, came up that this happened or how we figured this out. Somehow we figured it out. Like, we started talking. Oh, you know what I'm wondering? So Heather wrote another show sort of about her Woo woo stuff. There's an incredible piece, and I think maybe we put it together. After I saw your show.

[Heather Christian]

After you saw Animal Wisdom.

[Jenny Steingart]

After I saw Animal Wisdom, which was another incredible piece. And it is all about her lineage. And I think that I was like, oh, she's safe space that I can. Because, you know, this is not. This is a part of my life that I'm not embarrassed by it or ashamed of it, but I don't lead with it. You know, I don't go into the world saying, like, oh, I talk to my dead brother and other people, or I whatever. And honestly, I'm sure there are people who are gonna hear this who think I'm insane. I'm gonna bet that most people, certainly, if they've lost someone, have felt the presence of that person. The fact that you even have this podcast. And I don't. I actually, Rachel, don't even know, like, the background of why you decided to start this podcast, but I think this is a pretty common experience for people, and often they just don't have words around it. And for those of us who are a little more practiced with it and have hacks of how we connect and what we do or how we can call those people to us, maybe it's a little bit different, but I don't. Again, I don't lead with that, you know, so. But once I saw Animal Wisdom, I'm pretty sure that is what happened. Once I saw that, I think. I don't know if we had lunch or we decide, but I was like, girl, we gotta talk. I really wanted. I really wanted to talk about it. And then we started putting it together and it was so extraordinary. We were both like, what? And it also started to make sense again. Not that I had any question that Gabe hangs around Ars Nova and is super supportive of the folks there, but the idea that Ars Nova has been, quote, haunted and it's only, you know, 22, 23 years old, I actually just love that. And I think everybody there, it's never been like a scary thing. It's always been sort of a playful, comforting thing, I think. So the idea that Gabe had a hand in some way, whether it was really just inspiration for Heather, whether she wrote it entirely on her own, whether she channeled some of it, whether it was a combination. Look, I believe for all artists, they channel at times anyway. That's part of the state you have to. The vibration that an artist has to get into to create is raising their vibration. And it makes complete sense to me that there would be kind of a union of this side and the other side, particularly if it's a loving spirit who wants the best for everybody involved. They want to help it along in any way they can. So it's just. It's just like. It's a story that warms my heart so much. I just. And I love that it was going on and neither of us knew the other part of the story. So again, there was like no confirmation bias going in. It just simply was. That's just what happened.

[Rachel Dratch]

I love that there were like two parallel things happening and then it took the show and then beyond the conversations. But that makes it extra powerful, I think. Wow. If you've been listening to the show for any amount of time, you know about my dog, Ruffles. Well, Ruffles is a picky eater. I didn't realize dogs could be so picky. Because my dog growing up would eat anything. But not Ruffles. She's got a very discerning palate. And that's why I'm so glad that I discovered Ollie. Ollie offers fresh protein packed meals made with real human grade ingredients. And they offer five tasty recipes, all slow cooked for top nutrition. Ruffles loves Ollie. I swear, if I ever run out and I have like dry food or canned. She gives me this look and she just walks away from the bowl. She's looking at me like lady, please. I'm making it nicer. I think that her subtext is worse than Lady. I'll let you use your imagination for that. Ollie has human grade recipes backed by vet nutritionists and crafted with culinary experts. Dogs love the taste. Even the pickiest eaters will show more excitement during meal time. Ollie has tailored meal plans to meet your dog's specific needs with a scoop for easy. There's Ruffles Come with a scoop for easy serving and a storage puptainer for no mess. The Ollie app offers on demand health screenings where you can tap real experts for pup peace of mind and it uses data from the Ollie pack to develop new recipes and products for your dog. So your dog's well being starts with their food and that's why Ollie delivers fresh human grade food that your dog will love. Head to ollie.com woo and tell him all about your dog and use code WOO to get 60 off your welcome kit when you subscribe today. Plus they offer a happiness guarantee on the first box, so if you're not completely satisfied, you'll get your money back. That's o l l I e.com woo and enter code woo to get 60 off your first box. Tell them Ruffles sent you.

[Heather Christian]

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[Jenny Steingart]

Shop Fall's easiest outfit at Abercrombie Kids.

[Rachel Dratch]

In the app, online and in stores. Heather Were there any moments in the show like I know you said you sort of felt sort of urged on, push on, supported by this presence once you befriended. But I was wondering were there any sort of like we've had those channeling moments even writing sketch or standup whatever it might be painting. We've had some artists on here. But I was wondering like was there a moment that you felt that was directly from what you came to know as Gabe, like. Or was it more just a feeling of.

[Heather Christian]

It's honestly it was less to do with the actual writing and more to do with how I was viewing my. I will say that like the presence of Gabe, it's not.

[Jenny Steingart]

Not.

[Heather Christian]

It's not like a toothless like just good. I never felt like it was just like a nice person.

[Jenny Steingart]

Right.

[Heather Christian]

And I hope that's okay to say. Jenny. I felt this was a spirit with a lot of opinions.

[Jenny Steingart]

He was a really complicated dude. So, yes, it's totally okay.

[Rachel Dratch]

It's funny.

[Heather Christian]

And who seemed quite stern. There were certain people that would come into the room where I would feel this presence, just be like, no, no, no, no. Or, like, I would start going down this. Like, I have a tendency as an artist to try to do everything myself because I don't want to trouble anybody. Or if I think an idea is too weird, I'll try to, like, present it in a nice way or I'll, you know, whatever. And Gabe was having none of it. Gabe was like, get a music director. Be a composer. You're a composer. Like, before this, I had been, like, a composer, perform former writer person who was performing all of their own work. I was music directing all of my own work. I was, like, taking on way too much. There was something about Gabe's. I think the primary channel was Gabe going, like, you're. You're a big deal.

[Jenny Steingart]

You're a big deal.

[Heather Christian]

Like, deal with it.

[Rachel Dratch]

Ooh, I love it.

[Heather Christian]

I know you have feelings about that. Deal with it. And it was less like. Like, that message was delivered as a. Like, you owe this to me, you know?

[Rachel Dratch]

Yeah. You know, wow.

[Heather Christian]

So it was more, I think, the, like, the bigness of the project.

[Rachel Dratch]

Right.

[Heather Christian]

The epicness of, like, all the material that I wanted to deal with. The constant, like, keeping the fire lit of curiosity, even in these things that I didn't understand. You have to keep that curiosity alive and, like, rabid enough to learn, like, how thermodynamics work, you know, like, for the duration of the education that it took to understand these things so I could manifest them poetically and musically, which is a long time.

[Rachel Dratch]

Wow.

[Heather Christian]

So I. The writing itself took place at my studio, but the thinking about it, you know, the, like, dreaming it up happened, like, at that space with, like. With this Guardian very much. Like, he almost reminded me, like, a cool version of my piano teacher.

[Jenny Steingart]

Yeah.

[Heather Christian]

That was like, stop being a pussy. Yeah. Why are you doing this? Like, why are you making yourself small? We're not. We are not small. But it was. It always felt like that. We are not small.

[Jenny Steingart]

I love that it's so funny, Heather, because I don't think. I don't know that I've ever told you details about his personality, but that's just Gabe to a T. I mean, he did not suffer fools lightly. He was full of opinions. He was the first person to, like, dismiss someone that he just thought was not up to par. He really had ridiculously high standards. He had a Very strong sense of. Of how things should go and how things should be. He was intellectually, I mean, perhaps the smartest person I've ever known. I've known a lot of smart people, but he was smart in a particular way. And also, I don't think he was. He certainly was not tapped into the woo woo that we're talking about. But I know in retrospect that he had been here many, many times because he once said to me, like, this is a kid. Like, he was younger than I was when I was in high school and he was still in middle school. He regularly helped me with my math and with my homework, and he hadn't studied it yet, but he knew what it was. He, like, knew how to do it. And he used to. He knew things. Like, we talked about physics a lot. I knew nothing about physics. He was technically. Knew nothing about physics, but his best friend at Columbia was a physics major. And Gabe could regularly have conversations and know, like, very detailed things. And I remember he said to me, I don't know how I know these things. They just come to me. I just know them. And so I know that he was part of that without recognizing that he was. And when it's so truly like hearing someone who was friends with Gabe talk about Gabe, to hear Heather say these things, like, we've never talked. Like, even this is the first time I'm hearing her say that. And I'm like, oh, she knew Gabe. Like, that's just Gabe. There's nothing offensive about it. Or I don't feel defensive. I'm like, no, that was my brother. Like, that's just who he was. He was really challenging in lots of ways because his opinions were so strong. He just knew the way it needed to be as far as he was concerned. But he also. It makes perfect sense that he would have loved and supported the work Heather was doing.

[Heather Christian]

But also, like, when do you come in contact? Like, as a person who is a nerd about dead languages and who is a nerd about, like, I tried to minor in astrophysics, like, who is a nerd about all of this stuff? When do you come in? And as a musician, when do you come into contact with these other nerds who are not hiding in their. In their holes? We all hide in our hiding holes. Right, right. I can imagine that, like, Gabe, when I arrived, was like, oh, my gosh, we have shit to talk about. Yep, yep.

[Jenny Steingart]

No, I think that that's so true. I mean, for me, you know, besides losing my best friend when he died, you know, and the witness to my childhood, because we were the only two siblings, so I lost that. The other loss for me was he was the only person I had. I was a philosophy major, so I sort of. I veered in that direction. But I'm not so nerdy that, like, I'm not as nerdy as Heather, for example. Like, I don't like that wouldn't be, like, a minor of mine. But I loved talking about this stuff, and I loved the person that I could talk to about it and that I could nerd out about it or who I could ask, like, could you explain this to me? Because there was just a lot of shit that I just didn't know, and he did so, again, like it. I feel so full right now in such a beautiful way, just even talking about this, because it is like someone who knew my brother, who didn't actually ever meet my brother, but yet she knows him better than most people who met him. It's incredible. It is incredible.

[Heather Christian]

What also is incredible, this story is.

[Jenny Steingart]

So beautiful, is, like, the fact that.

[Heather Christian]

Your brother kind of worked.

[Jenny Steingart]

He completed.

[Heather Christian]

He's also working through her. It's almost like he completed his work through you. And he was forcing you to become intrepid. He was forcing you out of your comfort zone because he saw that potential. And what's really beautiful here is that literally, he brought you guys together.

[Jenny Steingart]

Like, there is a part of your.

[Heather Christian]

Brother that lives within you, and that's.

[Jenny Steingart]

Why you love each other so much.

[Heather Christian]

Like, all I'm hearing is getting. I'm being overwhelmed. And Rachel and I both love this because I love Rachel so much. But that's for another story.

[Jenny Steingart]

That's a sidebar.

[Heather Christian]

When I hear how much you guys love each other, that really speaks to my heart. And there's this unconditional love that was almost predestined. Like, he literally brought you guys together as friends.

[Jenny Steingart]

And so how could you.

[Heather Christian]

This not be, like, anything but magical and successful and amazing?

[Jenny Steingart]

Well, thankfully, there will be the most amazing opportunity for people to see this gorgeous, gorgeous show, because the wonderful Signature Theater is doing it. I'm going to call it, I guess, a revival, but bringing back the Ars Nova production. And so Ars Nova is just as excited if we feel. I think we're as excited as if we were. We're so thrilled. And I want the whole world to come and see it, because it is just a masterpiece. It's absolutely a masterpiece.

[Rachel Dratch]

And it's coming up soon, right? When is it so people can.

[Jenny Steingart]

Yeah, we're plug this. Plug it. Okay.

[Rachel Dratch]

And Especially with this, but also with this backstory. I mean, you know, I love the Snow Book production. Irene and I, every guest, we're like, we're going to go to that. We're going to go to this. This is on our.

[Jenny Steingart]

So when.

[Heather Christian]

But we're really coming to this. We are.

[Jenny Steingart]

We're fucking going to this, sweetie. I love it.

[Heather Christian]

So when we slay, we start previews on September 30th and we open open on October 16th and run until right up until Thanksgiving.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay, so everybody go see that oratorio for Living Things. A signature.

[Jenny Steingart]

Do not miss it. Do not miss it. It is absolutely. It's one of those. It's one of those shows that every friend of mine who saw it when it was Ars Nova still talks about, still talks about as being one of the most special experiences they have ever had in the theater. And that. That is really not hyperbolic. That is absolutely the truth. It will. It is really. It feels like a spiritual, religious experience. It really does. You are transported and it's just a salve for the soul. It's really something special. I love that salve for the soul.

[Rachel Dratch]

It was just interesting to me that Heather, you said that you have always been receptive and you come from a long line of people who are open to whatever you want to call it, the other side or the woo woo or whatever. And I just think it's really interesting. Like Jenny, you were saying you don't lead with this story, like this podcast. Like we started saying like always, like, you know, we're not really woo woo, but here's this amazing story and now we, we're full. Woo woo. Now we've heard it all. We're full, we're on board. But I just think it's interesting that, you know, Gabe, spirit of Gabe, happened to run into someone who not only had so much in common, thought wise, music wise, the Latin, the physics, the music and everything, but someone that was like an open receptor. Because it's sort of like an argument to like, why not? I mean, I just got a little chill right now. But like, like, why not? Like if you are open, and I don't even just mean to like the other side, but just if you're open to the woo woo of it all, like you don't know what you might see that you otherwise wouldn't see or feel or hear or whatever. So it's just really fascinating to me that like Gabe happened upon the perfect, open, receptive soul to commune with or whatever you want to call it. Sorry, maybe commune Sounds a little.

[Jenny Steingart]

But you might say. But you might say that there was no other way it could have gone, that it was always going to have gone that way. I remember, I remember years ago, I was on a plane and I was thinking of someone who. Let's just say I ended up manifesting the actual person I was thinking of who ended up being seated next to me on a plane. It was crazy. And it was someone that in my brain I had thought, wow, I could. And it wasn't someone I knew very well. It was someone fairly well known who I didn't know who. I was like, ugh, I need someone like X to, like, give me a good talking to right now. Like, you know, why aren't I friends with that person? And sure enough, that person sat next to me for six hours on a plane. It was crazy. It was the only seat left on the plane. The plane was about to take off. She got on late. Anyway, so we spent six hours yapping. And at the end of the plane ride, I remember, I'll never forget this. I said to her. Cause we were like besties at that point, right? And I said, oh, my God, what are the chances that we would have been seated next to each other and blah, blah. And she just looked at me and she went, 100%. I love it. And I was like, yep, Roger that. Yep, that's right. And so I would say that the chances that this was gonna happen were 100%.

[Heather Christian]

Mm. Yeah.

[Jenny Steingart]

Love that.

[Heather Christian]

It's also, I was like, tuned as a child. Like, I. You know, I grew up in this house that was built by a classical organist. And the spirit of this dead organist was like, really up my ass for, like my entire childhood.

[Jenny Steingart]

Wait, Heather, are you kidding? An organist? Did we ever talk about Gabe's organ?

[Heather Christian]

No. No.

[Jenny Steingart]

So Gabe loved. Oh, my God, my head's exploding. So Gabe. Gabe. Gabe loved the. Which I will confess, not my favorite instrument, but it is an instrument that he loved. And when he passed away, my family had in his honor at our temple at Central Synagogue in New York, we built, like this one of a kind organ. We like, endowed the temple. And it's the Gabe Wiener Organ. And we do organ concerts for free every month at the temple. And we bring in organists from around the world and organ students from around the world. And that's. We have a foundation in Gabe's name, and that foundation underwrites that. And we have never freaking talked about that. No. Okay, so that's cray.

[Heather Christian]

So, yeah. I mean, there was. Because I would wake up in the middle of a meeting night when I was a little girl.

[Rachel Dratch]

What?

[Heather Christian]

Yeah, because my lamps would go on and off. Like, this was a really. This was a poltergeist. This was like, not an ice ghost. So, like, my lamps would go on and off. My parents thought I was nuts. Eventually they were just like, you got to be a big girl and not come sleep in our bedroom. You got to tough it out. But I had this curved wall that my bed was up against. And on the other side of that curved wall was another curved wall that went the. Around the other way. And this was a room that was boarded up when my parents bought the house. And when they peeled it back, they were like, what's this weird little hallway? We went back to the original.

[Jenny Steingart]

That doesn't sound good.

[Heather Christian]

We went back to the original.

[Rachel Dratch]

But it is my. It's my Nancy Drew fantasy. But go ahead.

[Heather Christian]

I mean, but terrifying.

[Rachel Dratch]

Yes. Okay.

[Jenny Steingart]

Terrifying.

[Heather Christian]

So they. In the original blueprints of the house, that was the niche where the pipe works was. So I was sleeping right behind it when I was a little girl. And my great grandmother, who was also a medium, was also a concert pianist. And so I crawled up on a piano bench when I was like three. So when my mom put me in piano lessons at three, I started to have these experiences with this ghost who would close the pocket doors on me when I was practicing piano, who would sit next to my bedside and watch me sleep. And it scared the crap out of me, of course, but it also. I don't know, there was something in retrospect. Now I'm like, I was terrified, but I was also, like. It was very clear that this person wanted me to become. To take music seriously, was trying to, like, teach me something, even though he was a bastard. Like, but if you, like, put all of these things up together, right. It makes it feel like I was fated to write oratorio. It makes it feel like everything has its place in the sequence. I mean, and I'm in rehearsals right now for oratorio, and like, I am not a person who is particularly filled with self love. I am a person.

[Rachel Dratch]

Few artists are, but yes, yes, I'm.

[Heather Christian]

On the cross most of the time.

[Rachel Dratch]

Time.

[Heather Christian]

And I, you know, I have these moments with the piece when I'm with my ensemble, and I'm like, how the hell did I do this? It's great. Like, it's great. I don't understand what happened. It does feel like that the thing. Like, one of the things. I hope there are more of them. One of the things that has come out of me that is. Is like, oh, that's what people are going to associate with my name. That I can look back on when I'm like 85 and go, did that fucking thing.

[Rachel Dratch]

Yeah.

[Jenny Steingart]

Oh, 100%. 100% you will be. That's there. There's nothing. There's. That's not even a question for sure.

[Rachel Dratch]

Well, that was an amazing story. I don't even know what to say. Well, we don't want to take up too much more of your time. Oh, but one more thing. This is so off time, but there's another show that's the opposite of the oratorio and it's called Ginger Twinsies and it's playing in the East Village, right?

[Jenny Steingart]

It is.

[Rachel Dratch]

And that's from Ars Nova as well.

[Jenny Steingart]

No, so that's actually so Ars Nova as the not for profit is its separate entity. No, no, no, that's fine. And then I have Ars Nova Entertainment, which does. That's my company that produces Broadway and Off Broadway. And we do have a. The absolute opposite. It is called Ginger Twinsies and it is at the Orpheum Theater. It is a send up slash parody of the Parent Trap, the Lindsay lohan version from 1998, written by the brilliant Kevin Zach. Written and directed with a stellar cast. It is honestly the funniest fucking thing you've ever seen.

[Rachel Dratch]

I've heard great things.

[Jenny Steingart]

It is so much fun. And given what is going on in the world right now, I actually feel as passionate about bringing that into the world right now as I did about bringing something like Oratorio into the world. It's opposite sides of the same coin. It is the need for escape in the most beautiful way. It is so much fun. Gingertwinsyplay.com come and see us at the Orpheum through the end of October. It is just the most fun. So I'm really excited and proud of that one.

[Rachel Dratch]

So you have two different things to see, listeners. Ginger Twinsies for the laughs and Oratorio for the depth. The depth of life and the spirit of Gabe as well. Well, thank you ladies, so much.

[Heather Christian]

Thank you.

[Jenny Steingart]

Oh, thank you.

[Rachel Dratch]

We have an epilogue to this and that is the pendulum reading. Were you told? The pendulum reading seems so out of place after a story like this. But it's our little gimmick at the end where we wait. But Jenny knows. Jenny knows. Cause she. You said to me, you do the pendulum.

[Jenny Steingart]

I carry a pendulum with me. I have a little bag for it. I like to bring it around.

[Heather Christian]

Yep.

[Jenny Steingart]

See Rachel she takes care of Penji.

[Heather Christian]

We just throw Penji in an ashtray.

[Rachel Dratch]

This is bulky. It's not an ashtray. It's a ceramic dish.

[Heather Christian]

It works like that.

[Jenny Steingart]

She can't work like that. I love me a good pen.

[Rachel Dratch]

Wait, Irene, I feel like I should give Penji possession back to you, though. For real.

[Heather Christian]

Okay.

[Rachel Dratch]

I mean, I think Penji needs to live in, like, a velvet box in your home.

[Jenny Steingart]

But I love how you've named your.

[Rachel Dratch]

Penji, which is fantastic, as you know. Then since you're well versed, you can ask a yes or no question. And Irene and I will both do. We see if we ask.

[Jenny Steingart]

Why don't we do this?

[Rachel Dratch]

What?

[Heather Christian]

Why don't you do. Let's do it at the same time.

[Rachel Dratch]

Let's do it at the same time.

[Heather Christian]

Okay. Right.

[Rachel Dratch]

Sometimes we don't get the same. But okay. So. So we'll do both of you. So, Jenny, do you want to think of a yes or no? Tell us when you're okay. Here we go. Okay.

[Jenny Steingart]

Yep.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay. I got an instant. What about you, Irie?

[Jenny Steingart]

I got a yes.

[Rachel Dratch]

I got a yes, too.

[Jenny Steingart]

Well, that is great news, because I asked, are people going to buy tickets to see Oratorio and Ginger Twinsies? And the answer was yes.

[Rachel Dratch]

I love you asked a nice low stakes. We tell people to do that. Not that it's low stakes, but you know what I mean, Something that's not, like, gonna make you get it. Yes. Okay. Well, there you have it. Low stakes, but it makes you happy. They're gonna sell out. Well, they probably are. Well, Ginger Twinsies, for all I know. Probably already is. But anyway, go see Ginger Twinsies. And we're gonna go see Oratory, too. Now, Heather, do you want to ask a question? A yes or no? We tell people, don't ask anything that's gonna make you sad if it gives the wrong answer. But okay, so you think of your question. Okay. Oh, my God. I got an instant, wildly swinging answer. What about you, Iri?

[Heather Christian]

Well, sweetie, I got a resounding, wildly swinging.

[Rachel Dratch]

Me, too. Me, too. Oh, good. What was yours?

[Heather Christian]

Will my mom and dad sell that haunted house in the next year?

[Jenny Steingart]

Oh, they still have it.

[Heather Christian]

They still have it. They've been trying to sell it for the last 10 years.

[Jenny Steingart]

Wow.

[Heather Christian]

And they just had an offer on it. So me and my brother flew back for a crazy 36 hours and packed up the whole house, and then the sale fell through. Oh, wow. And so my parents are, like, devastated. And, like, me and my brother are also, like, when is it gonna End.

[Rachel Dratch]

Did your brother. Quick question. Did your brother have experiences in that? Like, does everyone in your family think the house is haunted? Just you?

[Heather Christian]

No, Just, just, just me. And now everybody that saw Animal Wisdom believes me.

[Jenny Steingart]

So that's.

[Heather Christian]

Wow. There are people in the south, like, there are people in Natchez, where I grew up, who were like, that's a haunted house. Like, we won't go to dinner there.

[Jenny Steingart]

Wow.

[Heather Christian]

It's a notoriously haunted house.

[Jenny Steingart]

We have to go there. Do they have an extra bedroom?

[Rachel Dratch]

Rachel, we can either experience.

[Heather Christian]

Go for it. Do you want to buy a house in madness?

[Rachel Dratch]

I do, actually.

[Jenny Steingart]

I live on a haunted island, so I'd like to come. Yes.

[Rachel Dratch]

Irene lives in Staten Island. She's looking for a way out. So if it has to be a haunted house, go for it. You guys, thank you so much. This story was both amazing and woo woo and poignant too. And I love that we touched on creating art and all of that. And here's to Gabe for all that he has given everyone who's seen all the things that have come out of Ars Nova. So thank you so much for sharing.

[Jenny Steingart]

Thank you so much. What fun to be with you guys and to talk about this also. It was great.

[Heather Christian]

Yeah, this was awesome. Thank you so much for having me.

[Rachel Dratch]

Thank you. And you can find me on Instagram at Ray Dratch. That's R A E Dratch. And you can find Irene at Irenebremis. That's B R E M I S Bremes. And thanks for listening. Thanks for joining me on this journey into the world of Woo Woo. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch is a Q Code production executive produced by David Henning and Steve Wilson. Produced by Alexa Gabriel Ramirez Edited by Will Tendee.

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