Kirk Wilson: I Manage a Haunted Hotel

Summary

---

Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch

Episode: "Kirk Wilson: I Manage a Haunted Hotel"

Date: October 22, 2025
Podcast Host: Rachel Dratch
Co-Host: Irene Bremis
Guest: Kirk Wilson, General Manager of the Bowery Hotel

---

Overview

This episode of "Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch" dives head-first into tales of the unexplained, as the hosts visit the historic (and allegedly haunted) Bowery Hotel in New York City. Special guest and hotel GM Kirk Wilson, a longtime friend of Irene Bremis, shares a trove of paranormal and mystical stories from his life—ranging from ghosts in hotel halls, to chilling road trip premonitions, to his personal brushes with mediums and Ouija boards. The conversation, packed with humor, warmth, and honest curiosity, is perfect for anyone who enjoys a spooky story (or fifty) told with wit.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Pendulum Mishap and the Legacy of “Penji”

(Pre-episode story, 01:20–07:42)

• A humorous and heartfelt side conversation about the tragic loss of the show's beloved pendulum “Penji” serves as the warm-up. Dana accidentally washed Penji, resulting in the loss of the crystal, to much mock outrage and guilt.
• Standout moments:
  • Dana: “I thought of even putting up a little sign in my laundry room, like, ‘Has anyone seen a purple crystal? Because my livelihood and my friendship depends on it.’” (04:08)
  • Irene: “We can’t even give Penji a proper funeral.” (03:31)
• Plans to get a new, even fancier pendulum from Salem, MA, are hatched.

2. Live from the Bowery Hotel – The Setting

(08:41–09:18)

• The hosts record on-site at the Bowery Hotel, known for its old-world appeal and ghost stories. Kirk Wilson is introduced, with much ribbing and affection from the team.

3. Hauntings at the Bowery Hotel

(13:12–17:59)

• Kirk shares the hotel’s most persistent ghost stories:
  • Elevator Phenomena: The elevators sometimes move on their own around 1am, leading some to suspect a ghostly presence.
  • Lady in White & Ghostly Girl: Multiple witnesses, including hotel staff, report seeing a woman and a little girl in white roaming the halls. An engineer was so shaken he refused to return to the third floor after seeing the girl.
  • Poltergeist Activity: Security footage shows a bottle flying off a shelf behind a bartender. Security guards have also seen unknown faces reflected in windows facing a nearby cemetery.
  • Historical Context: The building sits over a former old gothic bank and near a cemetery, with the Bowery area historically known for vice and its own supernatural reputation.
• Kirk: “I saw it with my own eyes… this bottle literally flew off the shelf. …It didn’t just fall—it went flying about three feet.” (15:50)
• Despite the lore, Kirk notes guests rarely report malevolent activity, just odd feelings or presences.

4. Kirk’s Life-Long Woo Woo: Meditation, Mediums, and More

(13:20 onward, recurring theme)

• Kirk’s interest in the paranormal stretches back to childhood. He’s spent time in ashrams, gone to mediums, explored tarot readings, and remains a curious skeptic.
• He references recent work with Shirley MacLaine, noting her reputation for mystical interests.

5. The “Jack O’ Lantern” Road Trip Premonition

(20:34–29:39)

• Kirk recounts a harrowing late-night road trip in the California desert with friend Owner Tukel:
  • Both were awoken by an overwhelming, unexplainable sense of danger and the urge to leave—a message in Kirk’s head screaming “Get out.”
  • As they fled, they swerved to avoid a massive pumpkin (“jack o’ lantern”) that had suddenly appeared in the road, then saw a crazed man waving them down.
  • Later, Owner’s mother alerted them that Michael Jordan’s father had been murdered while sleeping in his car by the roadside that same night, adding further chills.
• Kirk: “Something screamed, ‘Get out,’ so loud. …It was so emphatic, this voice, that I knew I needed to listen to it.” (22:07)
• The hosts discuss “The Gift of Fear” and following intuition in moments of crisis.
• Memorable exchange:
  • Irene (joking): “So there’s two options here. Either you’re a dick for not stopping, or you would have been dead. Given the two options, I’d rather take the latter.” (28:25)

6. Ghost Encounters in North Carolina

(32:40–39:13)

• Kirk describes summer theater work in Manteo, NC, where ghost sightings were a regular topic.
  • Auditory Spirit Encounter: While alone on a dock, Kirk heard a distinct, external voice whisper “Hey” into his ear.
    • Kirk: “It was so distinctly right in my right ear…not my own voice. Something said, ‘Hey.’” (34:54)
  • Nature’s Response to Skeptics: Another incident in the woods after a friend challenged any ghost to “show me a sign,” a massive branch fell, nearly hitting them.

7. Experiences with Mediums, Tarot, and Energy Work

(40:58–46:28)

• Kirk describes a visit to a New York “natural dentist” whose daughter performed energy clearing sessions as a medium. The session made him feel light and “like something had been lifted away.”
• He also recounts a tarot reading in which the reader warned him a serious relationship “isn’t going to work, honey”—which proved true years later. This, he notes, is why he avoids tarot now.

8. Childhood Horror and Ouija Board Mishaps

(52:18–58:22)

• Kirk shares a teenage brush with a Ouija board with friends. One sleepover attendee claimed to have been tormented and nearly assaulted by a ghostly presence afterward—becoming a longtime in-joke (and source of ridicule) among the group.
  • Kirk: “He looks sort of traumatized …he was like, man, I swear it started to pull my pants down…” (53:22)
  • Rachel (on Ouija): “Some people say don’t ever have one in your house. It opens you up to dark forces.” (56:47)
• The group debates if adolescent imagination or supernatural forces were at play.

9. Family Woo Woo & Religious Backdrop

(58:45–61:26)

• Kirk grew up Southern Baptist. His father, a football coach, also had books on psychic self-defense and mental domination, quietly fueling Kirk’s lifelong curiosity in the paranormal.
• While his household wasn’t overtly mystical, the thread of spiritual vigilance ran deep.

10. Pendulum Finale

(61:32–end)

• The team wraps with a signature pendulum reading:
  • Kirk asks, half-joking, if his alma mater (East Carolina University) will ever win a national football championship. The pendulum (Penji) insists “Yes,” to Kirk’s disbelief.
  • Irene: “Penji, no surprise, is an underdog picker.” (63:20)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|-----------|-------| | 04:08 | Dana | “Has anyone seen a purple crystal? Because my livelihood and my friendship depends on it.” | | 15:50 | Kirk | “I saw it with my own eyes… this bottle literally flew off the shelf. …It didn’t just fall—it went flying about three feet.” | | 22:07 | Kirk | “Something screamed, ‘Get out,’ so loud… I knew I needed to listen to it.” | | 28:25 | Irene | “So there’s two options here. Either you’re a dick for not stopping, or you would have been dead.” | | 34:54 | Kirk | “It was so distinctly right in my right ear…not my own voice. Something said, ‘Hey.’” | | 46:10 | Kirk | “She said, ‘Are you in a relationship?’ …She said, ‘It’s not going to work, honey.’” | | 53:22 | Kirk | “He looks sort of traumatized …he was like, man, I swear it started to pull my pants down…” | | 56:47 | Rachel | “Some people say don’t ever have one [Ouija board] in your house. It opens you up to dark forces.” | | 63:20 | Irene | “Penji, no surprise, is an underdog picker.” |

---

Key Timestamps

• Pendulum Mishap / Pre-episode banter: 01:20–07:42
• Arrival at Bowery Hotel / Guest intro: 08:41–10:18
• Haunted Hotel Stories: 13:12–17:59
• Jack O’ Lantern Desert Story: 20:34–29:39
• Ghosts of North Carolina / Auditory Encounter: 32:40–39:13
• Medium & Tarot Experience: 40:58–46:28
• Ouija Board Teenage Story: 52:18–58:22
• Family Backstory: 58:45–61:26
• Pendulum Segment: 61:32–end

---

Tone & Atmosphere

The episode blends irreverent comedy and genuine curiosity. Rachel and Irene riff and banter, but allow Kirk’s stories to unfold with proper suspense and empathy. Everyone keeps a “skeptical believer” attitude, making it accessible whether you’re a true paranormal enthusiast or a stone-cold skeptic.

---

For Newcomers

Whether you’re in for the laughs or the heebie-jeebies, this episode is a perfect example of “Woo Woo’s” unique blend: genuine storytelling about odd, eerie encounters told with the open-mindedness of friends around a campfire—just in time for Halloween. And if you’ve ever managed to destroy a beloved pendulum in your laundry, you’ll feel right at home.

---

Transcript

[Kirk Wilson]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match Limited by state law not available in all states.

[Irene Bremis]

Learning through play starts with Lego Duplo. With Lego Duplo, toddlers can develop real life skills while having fun with col bricks made just for them. Large, easy to grip and safe to explore. When children express themselves with Lego Duplo they build patience, problem solving and empathy. See your child learn perseverance and self expression with everything they imagine and create. Visit lego.com preschool to learn more.

[Rachel Dratch]

Hello and welcome to Woo Woo. This is a little pre announcement for you. The following conversation took place about two weeks after we recorded this episode. This makes it seem like I'm setting up some wacky, weird Woo Woo thing and I'm not. I'm just laying out the timeline for the following interaction between me and Irene. Please enjoy.

[Dana]

Now, Irene, what I'm about to say, this could be funny to you or this could make you very angry. And I'm just going to start it with that. Not in a serious way. But I had to save this discussion to be taped for the listeners, okay? So that.

[Irene Bremis]

I love it.

[Dana]

So that I'm telling you this in real time. Okay? Yes, and I'm nervous to tell you this, but listen, last time we were together, we were doing the Kirk Wilson episode, okay? Yes, I was in the possession of one Ms. Penji. Penji, the pendulum, if you recall.

[Irene Bremis]

I do remember. Yes, I do.

[Dana]

You can see, you can see where this is going. Now the very last minute I said, I'm nervous to tell you this. At the very last minute I said, irene, do you want to take the pendulum? Maybe you should take the pendulum home with you. You said, no, Rachel, you keep it because I'm afraid I'm going to lose it. Okay, now this pendulum, this pendulum has been with us. Well, it's been with Irene since the dawn of time. It's been with the show for the whole show. Okay, now let me tell you what happened. Irene is going to cry right now. And this is.

[Irene Bremis]

I'm already fanning myself and getting a hot flush knowing where this is going.

[Dana]

Not good. It's not good. The pen. This is in typical draft move. And I'm sorry everyone, because I'm not using that as an excuse. I'm using it as a self flagellation.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay?

[Dana]

Typical Dratch fashion. It was in the pocket of my jeans. Okay, what do I do? I throw my jeans in the laundry.

[Rachel Dratch]

Yeah.

[Dana]

Now, wait a second. Then as I'm going to get my laundry, I'm like, oh, shit. The pendulum was in my pocket. Okay. And then I pull out the. I pulled out of the dryer, thinking, surely the pendulum is going to be in here somewhere. I'm scouring the washer. I'm, like, turning the little drum around, waiting for it to fall, but all that comes out is the chain. The chain. It's merely the chain. The pendulum is no longer Rachel. I know. I know.

[Irene Bremis]

We can't even give Penji a proper funeral.

[Dana]

I feel terrible about this, and I'm not trying to make light of it by recording this, but I figured it needs to be recorded in real time. So, anyway, I pull out this string and I'm like, where is the Penji? I'm searching through every. Like, you know, I don't have washer dryer in my building. Okay, I'm not that. I mean, sorry, it's in my building, but it's not in my apartment because I'm not fancy. So it's down to Facebook. I'm searching through both washers. I used, like, all three washers, all three loads on it. Searching through all the dryers. I'm like, oh, my God, Irene is going to kill me. And I thought of even putting up a little sign in my laundry room, like, has anyone seen a purple crystal? Because my livelihood and my friendship depends on it. I didn't put the sign up, but I never found the pendulum.

[Irene Bremis]

Oh, sweetie.

[Dana]

All that remains. Now, I could maybe invert this Rachel and use the thing with. Look at this.

[Irene Bremis]

Now, I've never called her Rachel on the show. This is my stern voice. Okay, we can't flip over. Peny is no longer there, and we can't use the handle to use as the weighted part of Penji. Penji is officially deceased.

[Rachel Dratch]

Or at least I'm Pen.

[Irene Bremis]

That's it.

[Dana]

Is moved on.

[Irene Bremis]

He's moved on to another realm.

[Dana]

I want to do one more search and maybe put a sign up.

[Irene Bremis]

Okay. Put a sign up.

[Dana]

And now I owe you the most fancy of pendulums. I decided already because we're planning on going to Salem, Massachusetts.

[Irene Bremis]

Oh, that's right.

[Dana]

And I decided I'm going to gift you with the finest. The finest of pendulums that money can buy, purchased in Salem, Massachusetts, for extra magical powers. I have to get you. It's not going to be replacement. It's going to be a token of my love and apology with the fine, fancy pendulum that I'm going to get for you.

[Irene Bremis]

Well, you know what? I love that. You know, Penji did serve us well. She did such a great job. I mean, she picked an entire football season. Okay, stop. I'm not going to talk about it. It's a very sad thing that Penji's gone. But you know what? Out with the old and in with the new, sweetie.

[Dana]

Well, Irene, if you want to be angry with me, you can be. Because I don't need to make you not angry by putting this in public.

[Irene Bremis]

Right.

[Dana]

So if you're really upset, I understand.

[Irene Bremis]

Of course I'm not upset. How can I be upset with you?

[Dana]

I don't know. I mean, you put me in charge of a precious item, but it could have been.

[Irene Bremis]

I could have taken Penji home. I could have kept it.

[Dana]

And you would have cared for it and put it in a velvet box.

[Irene Bremis]

I mean, I don't understand where Penji went and why there wasn't any noise in the dryer. This or the washing?

[Rachel Dratch]

Neither.

[Dana]

I don't.

[Irene Bremis]

I don't understand.

[Dana]

Maybe I'll put up a sign.

[Irene Bremis]

Put up a sign. It's not over. At least let's. I think Penji's worth a search.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay. I mean, I guess an extended search.

[Dana]

But maybe the sign. The embarrassing sign. Has anyone seen a small, like, purple diamond thing?

[Irene Bremis]

Yeah, Sort of like the equivalent of being in the back of a milk carton for Penji. Okay, let's get that going. Yes.

[Dana]

Well, there you have it. So listeners will alert you when the new pendulum is beginning. It's. It's service. It's practice.

[Irene Bremis]

It's practice. And it's recharging. It's recharging. That's right.

[Dana]

Anyway, Irene, I'm sorry. I'll never live this one down. I know it.

[Irene Bremis]

I love you, sweetie. No matter what. But Penji's coming home with me. From now on, sweetie. Sorry.

[Dana]

Penji is gonna live with you in its pristine home and under safe keeping.

[Irene Bremis]

In a velvet box. We know Penji decided to make itself scarce. She was. I mean, because we still can't.

[Dana]

I really don't know where. I don't know where it went. It was like a mystery. It disappeared.

[Irene Bremis]

Maybe we can use the new pendulum to find Penji.

[Dana]

Oh, ask a question.

[Irene Bremis]

Yeah, let's do that.

[Dana]

All right.

[Irene Bremis]

Okay. We'll keep you updated.

[Dana]

Again, I'm very sorry. And there we go.

[Irene Bremis]

It's out in the open.

[Dana]

I've confessed my sins.

[Irene Bremis]

And I Forgive you. And now on on with the show. The show. Let's say it again together. And now on with the show. Let's do it one more time.

[Dana]

And now, on with the show. I can't get this.

[Irene Bremis]

Okay, do it again.

[Dana]

And now, on with the show.

[Irene Bremis]

Okay, wait.

[Rachel Dratch]

Come on.

[Dana]

Let's do. I guess. Okay, let's say this cadence. On with the show.

[Irene Bremis]

Okay, here we go.

[Dana]

And now, on with the show.

[Irene Bremis]

What the hell? Okay, let's do it like this.

[Dana]

You might not use these.

[Irene Bremis]

On with the show. No, like this.

[Dana]

And now on with the show.

[Irene Bremis]

One more time.

[Dana]

And now on with the show.

[Rachel Dratch]

Welcome to Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch, the podcast that explores the unexplained with humor and curiosity. Hello and welcome to Woo Woo with Rachel Dash, here with pal and co host Irene Bremis.

[Dana]

Hi, Irene.

[Irene Bremis]

Hello, sweetie.

[Rachel Dratch]

Irene, today is a special day because we're. I'm gonna let you say this phrase because you seem to be liking it a lot.

[Dana]

We are on site.

[Rachel Dratch]

We are on site at a location. We're doing a location shoot today. We are coming to you from the Bowery Hotel in New York City.

[Irene Bremis]

It's absolutely incredible here. And I, you know, I haven't been here that often, but it so happens, Rachel, that a very dear friend of mine who I've known for a really long time, I would say I've known him for about like 25, 30 years, actually. 30 years. 30 years. That's right. Didn't realize 30 years we've known each other. He's an amazing actor, an amazing human being. He happens to be the GM of the Bowery Hotel. And I am so excited to have him on. Cause recently we worked on a Mutual Friends movie, Owner Tukel, who was also on the show. And Kirk pulled me to the side and had at least 70 stories to share that were amazing.

[Rachel Dratch]

So Irene told me that and I.

[Dana]

Was like, book him.

[Irene Bremis]

Book him, Dana.

[Dana]

Book him on the show. So here he is.

[Rachel Dratch]

Here he is.

[Irene Bremis]

Please welcome Mr. Kirk Wilson, everybody.

[Kirk Wilson]

Thank you. Thank you. It's great to be here.

[Rachel Dratch]

You finally get a word in edgewise.

[Irene Bremis]

That's right.

[Dana]

Hi, Kirk.

[Kirk Wilson]

Hi.

[Rachel Dratch]

Thank you for being here. Although we are actually on your turf. So thank you for having us. I should say, of course. In this beautiful room at the Bowery Hotel in downtown New York City. Also, P.S. i'm getting over a cold, and that's why my voice sounds weird. But anyway, okay. Just continuing. Okay.

[Dana]

So you guys just worked on a movie together with owner, and then you.

[Rachel Dratch]

Started chatting and you found Out. Wait a minute. Kirk has a lot of woo Woo stories.

[Irene Bremis]

I mean, Kirk had more than just a few to unpack. Sweetie, I'm gonna be really honest here, okay? He blew my.

[Dana]

I'm.

[Irene Bremis]

You know what I'm seeing, Rachel?

[Kirk Wilson]

What?

[Irene Bremis]

I'm seeing the emoji with the head beans blown off. You know that you love that emoji.

[Dana]

Love that emoji.

[Irene Bremis]

I love that emoji. I do. And he just blew my mind with all these stories, and I just. I couldn't even believe it. I mean, we could have recorded right there on the spot. Not without you, obviously, sweetie, but I promise you, I hope that you don't miss one detail, Kirk, when you tell these stories.

[Kirk Wilson]

I feel like I'm being set up here. I hope. I hope I can deliver.

[Rachel Dratch]

Wow.

[Dana]

Well, we're very happy to be here. Thank you for taking the time, Kirk.

[Kirk Wilson]

Of course.

[Dana]

So I don't know how you want to kick off.

[Rachel Dratch]

If you guys started talking, like, how did it come up in your conversation.

[Dana]

That Kirk was a purveyor of woo woo.

[Irene Bremis]

Well, I think I mentioned that we were doing woo woo, and then we proceeded to actually look up woo. And we're 43 in Australia. That's right. I just bragged 43 in Australia. Number 43 in Australia. So it started off, we were doing some little googling of. Of.

[Kirk Wilson]

Of.

[Irene Bremis]

Of wood. Woo. And then all of a sudden, he goes, you know, I've got a story, Irene. And then he sits down.

[Dana]

He's a much stronger Southern accent in.

[Rachel Dratch]

Your mind than I'm finding it, but okay.

[Dana]

Where are you from? The Deep South.

[Kirk Wilson]

I'm from North Carolina. Yeah, yeah, sure.

[Rachel Dratch]

I love North Carolina. Where are you from in North Carolina?

[Kirk Wilson]

Small town, towards the mountains.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay, what is it?

[Kirk Wilson]

It's called Taylorsville, North Carolina.

[Rachel Dratch]

Love North Carolina. So pretty.

[Irene Bremis]

Anyway, I was talking to Kirk, and he just. We started talking, and he told me that he had a bunch of stories. I mean, he had one after the other. I'm not even kidding. I just. I'm just gonna let him tell the story. And also, sidebar. He just recently also filmed something with. Yes, that's right. Shirley MacLaine. Yes, hello, Shirley MacLaine, the queen of Woohoo, sweetie.

[Kirk Wilson]

I was hoping to talk to her a little bit about her mystical experiences, but I didn't have a chance. We did have lunch together. She was fantastic.

[Rachel Dratch]

Now, we had Craig Chester on the show. Not sure if you know him. He's an actor. He also did a movie with Shirley.

[Dana]

MacLaine, and he did have lunch with.

[Rachel Dratch]

Her many times because they were on some extended shoot. So he actually told us some Shirley MacLaine stories. You're our second Shirley MacLaine adjacent. Yes.

[Dana]

So quick question. Just like, how woo woo are you.

[Rachel Dratch]

As a person and was your first kind of like woo woo story? Is it from way back when or is it sort of like.

[Kirk Wilson]

Well, I think it started. We started talking about the Bowery Hotel. Right. Because the Bowery is considered by many people to be haunted.

[Dana]

Love it.

[Kirk Wilson]

Yeah. And there's been a lot of press written up about it, and so we started talking there. But, yeah, I'm sort of a woo woo type person. Yeah. I've been into meditation. I've spent some time in an ashram and I've gone to mediums. I've done tarot readings, you know.

[Rachel Dratch]

Fantastic.

[Kirk Wilson]

I've had some.

[Dana]

Rolled into one.

[Rachel Dratch]

This is perfect.

[Dana]

We have so many topics. Why don't we start with you telling.

[Rachel Dratch]

Us about the Bowery Hotel being haunted and all that?

[Kirk Wilson]

Well, yeah. So there's a lot of press written about us. And some of the things are the elevators are supposed to be haunted right around 1am every night. Evidently they sort of have a mind of their own and they go up and down. So that's one story. People think our elevators are haunted. I haven't experienced that. Our elevators are quite old, so that could just be it. They're temperamental. We have a lady in white, evidently.

[Irene Bremis]

Sounds like a movie, sweetie.

[Kirk Wilson]

Yeah. And evidently people have seen her sort of wandering the hallways. There's a little girl, also in white, that people have seen evidently, in our hallways. So much so that one of our engineers had seen this girl, followed her and then turned the corner and she was gone. And he was so shaken up by it, he refused to go to the third floor. We're like, hey, man, we need something fixed on the third floor. You got to get over your fear. And he was really frightened to do it. He was very suspicious. He was very superstitious. Yeah. So that's another story about the ghostly experience.

[Rachel Dratch]

What was the Bowery Hotel before?

[Kirk Wilson]

So it was a garage. Right. Before it was the Bowery, but before then it was an old Gothic style building which housed a bank from like 1870 till about, I think, 1994 when it was demolished. But also, too, the Bowery has a lot of ghost stories. This area was sort of full of flop houses and prostitution dens. And people believe that there's a lot of ghosts in this area. And actually right behind us, there's a cemetery and everybody's buried underground there. And it's beautiful. We can't see it from here, but so there's a cemetery right behind us. And that adds, I think, too, to the lure of the hauntings at the Bowery. More stories, you know, And I've seen this myself on video. There's a bartender, and he's pouring drinks, and behind him, we see this bottle literally fly off the shelf. And I saw that with my own eyes. And it's very difficult to explain that away because it didn't just fall. It sort of went flying about, like, three feet off a shelf onto the ground. So that was unique. We've had security guards patrolling the event space and sort of looking out the window sort of towards where the graveyard is at. And they've seen faces in the glass, not their own. They're seeing their reflection, but then all of a sudden, they'll see, like, a face flash in the glass.

[Rachel Dratch]

Never heard of that.

[Kirk Wilson]

Yeah, yeah, that. Also, it was very difficult to get some of these security guards to go back in the event space in the middle of the night when they're doing tours. So those are. I think some of the. More those are the stories that are sort of out there and things that I've experienced.

[Rachel Dratch]

You know, have guests seen these figures in white? Like, has anyone come to the front desk?

[Kirk Wilson]

And we've had people sort of claim that they've maybe felt a presence right. In their room. Nothing. Nothing malevolent. Nothing that, like, really freaks people out. But there's people who sort of believe that, you know, Like, I just feel like there's something. There's something. Right. It's just a feeling. Right. But we've had a lot of people mention it, but we've been written a lot about, too. About, you know, the hotel's haunted. So maybe it's just, you know, maybe it's their imagination. I don't know.

[Irene Bremis]

I have a question now. Have you ever had, like, a crew or people come here to sort of try to debunk it or with, like, equipment?

[Kirk Wilson]

Not yet, no. No, no. We've been.

[Dana]

Bust out her Ghostbusters.

[Rachel Dratch]

I don't even know what they're called. We don't have that yet.

[Dana]

We don't have the technology yet.

[Irene Bremis]

Yeah, not yet.

[Kirk Wilson]

We have had ghost tours want to come. And we say, with all due respect, no, please don't come to our lobby with a large tour group.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay.

[Kirk Wilson]

Yeah. So those are. I think those are the majority of the stories, you know? Yeah. And it's been written about a lot now you know, right?

[Irene Bremis]

But they're not. They pale in comparison to your own personal stories. Kirk, seriously. Okay, I think we should just kick it off with the first story that you told me about, and I'm just going to give this one a title and then you can jump into it. The Jack O' Lantern.

[Rachel Dratch]

If you saw me trying to untangle my headphones, you might get the feeling that I don't always have my act together. And that's true. But thank goodness for Rocket Money, because with Rocket Money, managing my finances is easy. Yeah, managing your finances takes time and organization. Canceling old subscriptions, tracking expenses, and sticking to a budget. Luckily, Rocket Money does the heavy lifting for you. Automatically finding you ways to save and simplifying the process. Less stress, more free time, and a clearer path toward financial freedom all in one app. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. Rocket Money shows you all your expenses in one place, including subscriptions you forgot about. If you see a subscription you no longer want, Rocket Money will help you cancel it. I mean, right there. Worth its weight in gold. Rocket Money will even try to negotiate lower bills for you. The app automatically scans your bills to find opportunities to save and then goes to work to get you better deals. They'll even talk to customer service so you don't have to come on. Rocket Money has saved users over two and a half billion dollars, including over $880 million and canceled subscriptions alone. Their 10 million members save up to $740 a year when they use all of the app's premium features. So cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to RocketMoney.com woo. Today, that's Rocket Money.com woo. RocketMoney.com woo.

[Kirk Wilson]

And Doug, here we have the Limu emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug Limu.

[Irene Bremis]

Is that guy with the binoculars watching us.

[Kirk Wilson]

Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty.

[Irene Bremis]

Liberty Liberty, Liberty Savings.

[Kirk Wilson]

Very underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts.

[Rachel Dratch]

What is the Jack O' Lantern story?

[Kirk Wilson]

Okay, so owner and I, in fact, when we were in our early 20s, we were on a cross country trip and we were driving in the high desert of California and we were very tired. It was in the middle of the night and there was no Place to stay. So we decided to pull off the freeway onto, like, a local little road.

[Rachel Dratch]

This does sound like a movie already.

[Irene Bremis]

Yeah, wait till you keep going.

[Dana]

Especially, like, you and Owner and the road trip with Owner right there.

[Rachel Dratch]

That's a movie.

[Dana]

Exactly.

[Irene Bremis]

And I'm surprised he didn't make a movie about this. Rachel, seriously.

[Dana]

So it's like, nowhere to stay.

[Rachel Dratch]

You pull off the side of the road.

[Kirk Wilson]

Yeah.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay. Love it.

[Kirk Wilson]

And so we're driving through the desert, and there's these mountain. There's like a mountain range to the left of us as we're driving, and. And we drive for a while, and there's nothing at all around there. It's in the middle of nowhere. No houses, no street lights. And so we decided just to pull off on the side of the highway and sleep. So we pull off the side of the highway, we lean our seats back. We're exhausted, and we go to sleep. And I don't know how long it had been. Probably it felt just like a few minutes. All of a sudden, I was jolted awake by this feeling of just terror. And everything in me was saying, there's something awful happening. Like there's danger here, right? Yeah. And so it woke me up. I was really startled. Owner was asleep beside me in the driver's seat. And I sat there for a second. My heart was racing. And I thought, God, what was that? Was it just a bad dream? But I'd never had something like this happen before, right? And I thought, well, it's probably just a bad dream, right? We're out here in the middle of nowhere. And so I close my eyes again. And I leaned back on the seat, and all of a sudden, in my head, something screams, get out. So loud. And that feeling came back even stronger this time.

[Rachel Dratch]

I have full chills.

[Irene Bremis]

Yeah, full chills. And it gets crazier.

[Kirk Wilson]

And so at this point in time, I'm terrified. And it's so emphatic, this voice, that I knew I had to follow it. I knew I needed to listen to it. So I woke Owner up, and I was like, owner, wake up. Wake up. Oh, my God, we gotta get outta here. We gotta get out of here. And he's like, what? Oh, my God. Like, I woke him out of sleep. He's freaking out, and I'm like, start the car. Go, go, go, go. He starts the car, he does a U turn, and we start driving back the way we came about maybe a half a mile down the road, there's this massive jack o' lantern or pumpkin in my mind. It's a jack o lantern, right? I don't know if it was or not, but it just makes it sound cooler if it wasn't. But it was a massive pumpkin and massive. I mean, it was huge. And it was sitting right in the middle of the freeway. And we had just driven down that way and it wasn't there before, right? It's just sitting there in the middle of the freeway. And owner's like, oh, my God, what is that? I'm like, it's a jack o' lantern. I don't know.

[Dana]

Get her.

[Kirk Wilson]

Go around it. Go around it. And we swerve around this jack o' lantern. And then we continue driving. And probably about 200 yards further, we come around this bend, and there's a man standing in the middle of the street. And when I say street, it's like a deserted highway. Nothing's around, no one else is around. And he's got this crazed look on his face, and he's waving his arms like. Like, stop, stop or something, right? And then we're both one and I are like. Like, it is out of a movie. I mean, it's like, we're like, ah. And he's like, what do I do? And I'm like, swerve around him. Swerve around him. We swerve around this man and keep going. And then, you know, one is like, should we go back? Like, what do you think? Like, yeah, he's like, is. You think he's. He. What happened? Like, but there's no cars around there. There's no, like, wrecked. We don't see, like, a wreck or anything. It's just this man standing in the middle. And when. I mean, the middle of nowhere. It is the middle of nowhere and just sort of screaming in the middle of the street. So we continue driving, and we're totally. At this point in time, we're hyped up. We're sort of terrified. And we drive till the sun comes up because we're too afraid to park the car again.

[Dana]

Wait, so how long? This is just like some.

[Irene Bremis]

It's a movie. It's a movie, man.

[Dana]

So how long do you drive before.

[Rachel Dratch]

The sun comes out?

[Kirk Wilson]

I guess a few hours. We drive a few hours because we're in the middle of nowhere.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay. Okay.

[Kirk Wilson]

There's nothing. No, I mean, you know, when you're driving down some of these roads, It'll say, like, last gas station for 90 miles or something. Okay. Yeah, right. There's a lot of that out in the u. S. It's pretty fascinating. They're the tiny little towns out in the middle of nowhere. And so we drive, right? The sun starts to come up. It's about daybreak, and we find a rest stop. We pull in. So owner calls his mom back in North Carolina. And he said, mom, you'll never guess what happened. This was terrifying. Like, Kirk had this premonition, and there was a man standing in the middle of the road. And then she was like, owner Michael Jordan's father last night was killed sleeping in his car by the side of the road. And owner was, like, immediately like, oh, my God. It just felt very. Like there was some synchronicity going on, right? Like it's somehow tied to the story, right? And then we talked about that for a little while, and we're like, wow, that's bizarre. That's a coincidence, right? So I don't really know. I mean, I do know. I feel deeply that if we would have stayed there, we would have died. Like, it felt. I've never experienced something like that, and I haven't since. But I feel like something was watching over us that night and something saved our lives. And I. I believe it wholeheartedly.

[Irene Bremis]

And also, I just want to. I mean, just make it emphatically clear that the pumpkin was enormous. It wasn't just like a small or medium size.

[Kirk Wilson]

We had to swerve around it.

[Irene Bremis]

Large, large pumpkin in the middle of the road.

[Kirk Wilson]

And it wasn't in my memory. It wasn't like broken either. It was just sitting there, and it was just the most. And it was so big that you sort of had to swerve around it. Like if we felt like if it would hit it with a car and it may have damaged the. It was one of these colossal pumpkins, right? And it's funny because I hadn't really thought of that until Irene and I were talking, and then we were talking about owner, and then. And it just came to me and I'm like, my God, I had forgotten all about that. So, yeah, I don't know how to explain it, but I do know that it felt incredibly real.

[Dana]

It makes me think of the book.

[Rachel Dratch]

The Gift of Fear, which we've talked about on here. Have you ever read that book? Well, it's a great book, but it's about, like, following. Like, if you have a fear instinct or physical feeling to just follow it because it can save you from danger, violence. And I just think it's kind of fascinating that you felt that so strongly because, like, you know, social convention would say just like, oh, you know, tell yourself to Just go back to sleep. Like, you tried, but then the fact.

[Dana]

That you, like, woke owner up.

[Kirk Wilson]

Oh, yeah.

[Irene Bremis]

Which is not easy, shaking him awake.

[Dana]

And, like, the conviction you must have had to be like, we gotta go, like.

[Rachel Dratch]

And he must have been like.

[Kirk Wilson]

Well, he was terrified. He was like. Because. Because he was like. I was screaming like, go. Go. Get out of here. And he's like, what are you talking about? I'm like, start the car. Go now.

[Irene Bremis]

And owner also corroborated this story. And our owner is going to be the first person in a horror movie to actually die with his bad suggestion of stopping. Okay.

[Kirk Wilson]

Yeah.

[Rachel Dratch]

Oh, stopping with the guy.

[Irene Bremis]

Yeah.

[Kirk Wilson]

But I just think we were. We were like, should we have stopped? What do you think? Like, was he in danger? Could we have helped him? You know, we didn't know, but I don't know, like, there was something inside of me that said, there is no way we can stop for this.

[Irene Bremis]

So there's two options here. Either you're a dick for not stopping, or you would have been dead. And you know what? Given the two options, I'd rather take the ladder. There you go, sweetie.

[Dana]

Good choice.

[Irene Bremis]

Yeah.

[Kirk Wilson]

So I don't know what it was, but it was fascinating. Yeah.

[Rachel Dratch]

The Jack o' lantern.

[Kirk Wilson]

Yeah, that's the Jack o Lantern story. And it could have been a pumpkin, but it sounds cooler as a jack o' lantern.

[Dana]

It has a carved evil face.

[Rachel Dratch]

Yeah.

[Kirk Wilson]

Yeah.

[Rachel Dratch]

In reality, it might have just been a pumpkin, but.

[Kirk Wilson]

Yeah, interesting. In the movie version, like, the guy's naked or something. Painted. His body painted or something. Me too.

[Dana]

Rachel.

[Kirk Wilson]

I think he had clothes on. I think I remember the nudity.

[Rachel Dratch]

I was picturing scraggly hair.

[Dana]

Longish hair.

[Kirk Wilson]

Me too.

[Irene Bremis]

Sort of blondish.

[Rachel Dratch]

I was picturing brown. But you know what?

[Dana]

We don't know.

[Kirk Wilson]

Okay.

[Irene Bremis]

We don't know.

[Rachel Dratch]

The listeners imagine. Well, actually, maybe you have.

[Kirk Wilson]

I don't remember exactly what he looked like. I. Truthfully, I don't. I wish I did.

[Irene Bremis]

Okay.

[Kirk Wilson]

He was white, right?

[Dana]

Yes, man.

[Kirk Wilson]

And his.

[Irene Bremis]

I definitely thought white, for sure. And.

[Kirk Wilson]

But so, yeah, bizarre.

[Irene Bremis]

Wow.

[Rachel Dratch]

All right.

[Kirk Wilson]

So there was that. It was the voice. And that was what was fascinating. There was, like, a voice that screamed inside my head. It sounded not outside myself, inside myself. But it was a voice that wasn't mine that screamed at me, like, get out.

[Irene Bremis]

That was an internal voice. But then you also heard an actual external voice whispering in your ear. Do you want to tell us that story?

[Rachel Dratch]

They say you are what you eat. And that's very true. Did you listen to our episode of Irene Story. Oo. It's amazing. It really made me realize how much diet plays a part in health. Well, I'm always looking for an on the go protein snack, but now I found one that helps me live intentionally. Mosh Bars Moshe, which you may have heard about on Shark Tank, was founded by Maria Shriver and her son Patrick Schwarzenegger with a simple mission to create a conversation about brain health through food education and research. Maria's father suffered from Alzheimer's, so hence her mission. She and Patrick have dedicated themselves to finding ways to help other families dealing with this debilitating disease. Most everyone knows a family affected by it. MASH joined forces with the world's top scientists and functional nutritionists to go beyond your average protein bar. Each Mosh bar is made with ingredients that support brain health like Ashwagandha, lion's mane, collagen and omega 3s, plus a game changing brain boosting ingredient you won't find in any other bar. And Mosh bars actually taste great and come in nine mouthwatering flavors including three new plant based flavors, Chocolate Chip Cookie, Hazelnut Chocolate Chip and Peanut Chocolate Chip. But here's the best part to make you feel good, Mosh donates a portion of all proceeds from your order to fund gender based brain health research through the Women's Alzheimer's movement. Why gender based? Well, 2/3 of all Alzheimer's patients are women. Mosh is working closely to close the gap between women and men's health research and Mosh bars actually taste good. I like the chocolate brownie crunch because I'm always going to go for the chocolate, but my son is digging the cookie dough crunch. So give Mosh bars a try. If you want to find ways to give back to others and fuel your body and your brain, Mosh bars are the perfect choice for you. Head to moshlife.com woo to save 20% off plus free shipping on the Best Sellers Trial Pack or the new Plant based trial pack. That's 20% off plus free shipping on either the Best Sellers Trial Pack or the Plant based trial pack at M-O-S-H-L-I-F E.com Woo. Thank you Mosh for sponsoring this episode.

[Irene Bremis]

When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans, send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom 60th and never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Learn [e-mail].

[Dana]

There'S another story.

[Kirk Wilson]

Yeah. Ooh.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay. Did you grow up with owner or just coincidentally, you did?

[Kirk Wilson]

We were best friends since we were, like, 4 years old.

[Dana]

I know.

[Irene Bremis]

How cute is that?

[Kirk Wilson]

He was the best man at my wedding.

[Irene Bremis]

Yeah.

[Dana]

What?

[Rachel Dratch]

That's so sweet. Okay.

[Dana]

Sorry.

[Kirk Wilson]

Yeah. So, all right, so during the summer, I did the Lost Colony outdoor drama in Manteo, North Carolina. Have you seen it?

[Rachel Dratch]

I've heard of it.

[Kirk Wilson]

Yeah. So it's been running forever. I was probably 21, I guess, something like, right around the same time that we took this trip, probably within a year or two. Right. And so there's a lot of ghost stories surrounding that area, right? Like, the. The Outer Banks have a lot of ghost stories. I think it's called, like, the Graveyard of the Ships or something like that. Right. Thousands of ships have sunk, you know, in that area. And there's a lot of pirate lore, like Blackbeard, I think, sort of sailed those waters. Right. And a lot of the actors would talk about how they would see apparitions. It was real very common for people to talk about it all the time. Like, they'll see, like, people in, like, old garb, right. Not dressed like we dress now, sort of wandering around backstage or wandering around. Even in the apartment complex that we lived in, all the actors lived in this area called the Grove. And people would claim that they would wake up and see, like, people standing at the foot of their beds or they would just disappear. So there was a lot of that and a lot of those stories. And so you're sort of in that ethos, Right. Everybody always talked about ghosts. And so one night before I went on, I would go down to the far end of the dock. It was actually on a dock, so the waterways right behind the theater. And I would stand there, and I would do, like, deep breathing exercises before I went on.

[Rachel Dratch]

Because you cared about your craft.

[Kirk Wilson]

That's right.

[Dana]

Yes.

[Kirk Wilson]

I was a very serious actor. And so I was standing there. I'd do this nightly. And I was standing there on this little dock. No one was around me because it's a huge dock back there. I would say probably the closest person to me was, like, I don't know, 50 yards. I mean, I was by myself, right? Very quiet. I'm doing deep breathing. And I hear so distinctly right in my right ear, outside of myself, and not my own voice, something. And it said, hey.

[Dana]

Absorbing this.

[Rachel Dratch]

Yes.

[Kirk Wilson]

I stopped. And it didn't feel like, it was evil, right? But it wasn't me, and it wasn't my voice. And I stopped, and I. I turned around and I looked to see if anyone was near me. It's like, if somebody's playing a prank on me. No one was anywhere near me. I, like, walked up and down the dock. I was like. Then I started saying, like, is somebody here? Is somebody with me? Right. No one was around. So then I go back and I start doing the breathing exercises again, thinking, I hope it happens again. Right? Because I want to have a conversation with this entity. And I started saying, like, okay, if you're there, I'm listening. Like, speak to me again.

[Rachel Dratch]

This approach.

[Kirk Wilson]

Unfortunately, though, they didn't speak to me again. I know. I wish I'd had a long diatribe with this spirit, but that didn't happen. It did feel fascinating. And, I mean, it was definitely. It was clear as a bell, and it was a whisper, and it was right in my ear. And I've always been fascinated by that. Like, what was that? They knew my name. Is it. I don't know. Is it a spirit? Is it an ancestor? Like, what. What Decided to communicate with me and just. Just to say, hey. Which is fascinating, right? Like, they didn't say, like, I don't know, like, good luck tonight on your show. Break a leg. Break legs.

[Dana]

Yeah, but that's interesting. You've had two.

[Rachel Dratch]

If you had any more of those sort of auditory.

[Irene Bremis]

That's what I said.

[Kirk Wilson]

Those are the two auditory experiences that I've had. I've never seen a ghost, but I've had those two experiences. One. One was inside my head, but it was. Wasn't me.

[Rachel Dratch]

Yeah.

[Kirk Wilson]

It was inside my head, and it spoke very clearly, saying, get out. And he screamed it at me. And then this one was just. It felt very pleasant and fine, but it was clear. I mean, I can hear it to this day. It was just. It was fascinating. Right? And so that happened. Right? And then I remember another time when we were doing the show. There was a stretch of woods between the theater and the parking lot, and no one really walked down through there after the show because it was very dark. There were no lights. And so we would all sort of walk around another area to get to our cars. But we were walking through the stretch of wood, and there was probably, like, three or four actors, all guys. And one guy is like, I don't believe in ghosts. It's bullshit. He's like, if there's a ghost, show me a sign. And I swear to God, like, right when he said that, above us in the trees, we heard boom. And this massive branch that was like. It was massive, Huge. It fell from these trees way above us and landed right in front of us. If it would have hit somebody, it may have killed somebody. And it landed right in front of us. And of course, we were all, like, terrified, right? And we were like. We took off running. We run, like, through the rest, through the woods and get to the parking lot. And we're like, what was that? Oh, my God. I mean, look, it was either some massive coincidence or there was a ghost sitting up in a tree just trying to fuck with us.

[Irene Bremis]

That was like. I don't like your tone, Dick.

[Kirk Wilson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. It was like, I'm going to show you, like, what. What. What we're capable of. And so that was fascinating. So that. Yes, that happened, too.

[Rachel Dratch]

That was also in the Outer Banks.

[Kirk Wilson]

That was also. Yeah. When we were doing Lost Colony. Yeah, but there's tons of ghost stories.

[Rachel Dratch]

Where's this Lost Colony show?

[Kirk Wilson]

So it's in Manteo, North Carolina, I believe. It's still going on.

[Irene Bremis]

Okay.

[Kirk Wilson]

So, yeah.

[Rachel Dratch]

So those are North Carolina lore.

[Irene Bremis]

There's a lot going on in North Carolina that we didn't know about. Maybe you can talk a little bit about your. Do you have another story? You probably have a bunch of stories. Check your list.

[Rachel Dratch]

Well, he said the medium.

[Irene Bremis]

The medium. But I just wanted to make sure that he ends with this other story, the Ouija, that I wouldn't even touch on the show. Remember Rachel? What with Peanut? I wouldn't even touch the Ouija board. I'm so scared. Oh, no.

[Rachel Dratch]

We tried to do the Ouija board and we got gobbledygook. But in the past, I've done it when I was a kid and it worked.

[Kirk Wilson]

Yeah, no, it definitely. I mean, my experience with the Ouija board was it was moving all over the board.

[Rachel Dratch]

If you're dealing with hair issues like thinning or shedding, but feel totally stuck on what to try next, it's understandable. There are so many products out there, and it's hard to know which ones are actually going to do anything. That's why you should give Nutrafol a closer look. It's not just hype. It's physician formulated, clinically tested, and even recommended by dermatologists. Nutrafol is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand trusted by over one and a half million people. Nutrafol is the first and only hair growth supplement to be NSF certified for sport testing. Against 290 plus athletic banned substances, toxicology reviews, ingredient testing, label verification and annual manufacturing facility audits to ensure FDA requirements are met. And adding Nutrafol into your daily routine is simple. Purchase online, no prescription required. Automated deliveries and free shipping keep you on track. Plus, with a Nutrafol subscription, you can save up to 20%. You'll have access to free one on one naturopathic doctor consults to support you on your hair growth journey. And a headspace meditation membership is included. See thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with less shedding in just three to six months with Nutrafol. For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping. When you go to nutrafol.com and enter the promo code. Woo. Find out why Nutrafol is the best selling hair growth supplement [e-mail] spelled n u t r a f o l.com promo code. That's nutrafol.com promo code. Woo.

[Kirk Wilson]

Upgrade your laundry routine with a durable and reliable Maytag laundry pair at Lowes. Like the new Maytag washer and dryer with performance enhanced stain fighting power designed to cut through serious dirt and grime. And what's great is this laundry pair is in stock and ready for delivery when you need it the most. Don't miss out. Shop Maytag in store or online today at Lowe's. I was trying to sort of rack my brain on sort of woo woo things. So I, I've definitely been to a medium, right? I went to for a while here in New York City to this natural dentist, a regular dentist, like a real dentist. But they also, they did like.

[Dana]

Wait a minute.

[Rachel Dratch]

Was the dentist also the medium?

[Kirk Wilson]

No, it was the.

[Irene Bremis]

That scared us.

[Dana]

That's where I thought you were going with this. And like while you're getting your teeth done.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay, go ahead.

[Kirk Wilson]

It was the dentist's daughter.

[Rachel Dratch]

Ooh.

[Dana]

Okay.

[Kirk Wilson]

And so there were a lot of things you could do there, right? It wasn't just a dental place. You know, they would do like cleansing and when you would go in, she would like do these sort of like these bowls.

[Rachel Dratch]

Oh, yeah, the bowls.

[Irene Bremis]

Oh, the sounding bowls.

[Kirk Wilson]

Sounding bowls. And then they would do these magnets where they would ring them and sort of put them beside your ear. And it was like they did a bunch of stuff like this. I love this place because I love.

[Irene Bremis]

Do they accept insurance? Because I need a dentist.

[Kirk Wilson]

They don't accept insurance, actually.

[Dana]

Surprise.

[Rachel Dratch]

Your bowls are not covered.

[Dana]

The ringing bowls will not be covered by Delta Dental.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay.

[Kirk Wilson]

So I would. I. I went to see her for a while. She was a great dentist, too, by the way. She filled a cavity or two as well. She did normal dentistry, too.

[Irene Bremis]

Yeah.

[Kirk Wilson]

But one day I thought. And I saw, like, that her daughter was a medium, and she would do these, I don't know, astral cleansings or whatnot. Right. And so I thought, hey, I'm game. And I said, like, can I meet with your daughter? Like, I want to see. Like, that sounds cool. And so she said, yeah, of course. So we sat down. There's like another little room that we sit in. And then she's like, okay, take a few deep breaths and just clear your mind. So I did. And I look, I'm very skeptical about this, but I'm also intrigued by it, right? And so I'm sitting there, and she says, I get a sense that there's energy sort of stuck to you, and it's come from different people in different places. And, you know, people have been. It's their love for you, but it's an unhealthy love. And they've attached their own sort of. They wanted you to do certain things, or they wanted you to be a certain way, and they've attached this energy to you, and it. And it's still sort of stuck to you. And she was like, so we're going to clear that away. And I was like, oh, awesome. Please do. And so she just started sitting there. She closed her eyes. She's like, okay, I see that one. And she was waving her hand. She's like, okay. Oh, that one's gone. Oh, that's an interesting one. Oh, yeah, that one's gone too now. Oh, let's keep clearing, keep clearing, keep clearing, keep clearing. And she did this for a while, and I was just sitting there quietly, and I can't remember if much else was said. I mean, she said, you know, there's these things. They're stuck to you, and we're just going to clear them away. And I remember leaving, thinking, I don't know, what was that? But I felt phenomenal. Like, really for, like, the next sort of day or so. I felt so light and just amazing. Now, I don't know if it was just the fact that it.

[Irene Bremis]

Subliminal.

[Kirk Wilson]

Subliminal, or if I was just sort of, you know, But I don't know, like, it felt like something had been lifted away from me. And I found that to be really fascinating. And I never went back to her again, but I. But I would. I found it to be really unique and in fact, the dentist had written a book about her daughter and some of these things which I read after the fact.

[Rachel Dratch]

What's that called?

[Kirk Wilson]

I can't remember.

[Irene Bremis]

As an author.

[Kirk Wilson]

Yeah.

[Irene Bremis]

And a shaman.

[Kirk Wilson]

Yeah.

[Rachel Dratch]

She's a medium, though.

[Kirk Wilson]

Yeah. The daughter.

[Rachel Dratch]

You didn't have, like, medium experience?

[Kirk Wilson]

She didn't. Like, she wasn't possessed by. And maybe mediums. Maybe that's the wrong term. She wasn't like. She wasn't sitting there. Got possessed. Like Whoopi Goldberg.

[Irene Bremis]

Ghost, but she's more like an energy. She, like, clearing your browser. Spiritual browser history or something.

[Kirk Wilson]

She was deleting. Yeah. Bad files. Yeah. So there was that. I also went to. And it's interesting, you know, I've recently gone through a breakup, right? And I went to this tarot reader years and years ago. And I remember sitting there, and it was actually at a bar, and it was just a tarot reader in the corner. But she was legit. She took herself very seriously. And I'd never really done tarot cards, and I thought, oh, you know, I'll do it. Right? And so I sat down and we're talking about things. She does my cards. And she said, are you in a relationship? And I said, yes. Yeah. Very serious one. And she said, it's not going to work, honey. And, you know, recently, I just recently ended a relationship going through it, and I remembered that again, and I was like, wow. And of course, I tried to. I just. Just chalked it up to, oh, that's silly, right? Like, no, that's. But it's interesting to think about, you know? I mean, she was so emphatic. She's like, it's not gonna work out.

[Rachel Dratch]

Now, when you heard that, at the time, were you already thinking like, no, no, no. You were like, fully. Yeah, yeah. So then when you heard that, it was weird.

[Kirk Wilson]

It was just sort of a blip. And I thought, well, you know, she doesn't know what she's talking about, you know, some terror reader in a bar. Now, of course, it could have been wrong, too. I'm not saying, like, it was this, like. Now looking back, I'm like, oh, my God, I should have listened to her, you know? But I remember that. I just remember how she just said it so matter of factly. She's like, you guys aren't right. You guys aren't right for each other. And I was like, but that's one of the reasons I didn't want to do terror. And I haven't done it since, because I'm like, I don't Want that playing with my mind? Right.

[Irene Bremis]

Yeah.

[Rachel Dratch]

We'll tell you my story afterwards. Yeah, the listeners have already heard it.

[Dana]

My bad Tarot story.

[Rachel Dratch]

Yeah. Now, when you were growing up, were you, like, into this kind of thing, or it sort of, like, came to you later in life? Kind of.

[Kirk Wilson]

You know, I think, you know, when I was growing up, I mean, Orner and I were huge horror fans. We would watch just so many horror movies. And I was. I remember the first horror movie I saw, my parents wouldn't allow me to watch horror movies. And I went to a buddy's house and his parents didn't care. And we watched Friday the 13th, the first one, right. Where the mom is the one who's the killer. You find out. And then Jason, at the end comes up out of the lake and grabs the girl off the canoe. And I had never seen a horror movie before, and I couldn't sleep for days after that. And then I saw Cujo, and then I was terrified to pet my dog. So I was very sensitive to horror movies, right?

[Irene Bremis]

Yes.

[Kirk Wilson]

But then as I grew, I got completely desensitized to it, and owner and I would watch just. We would rent, like, five horror movies and watch them all night long. And we always loved horror movies. And then we started making our own horror movies.

[Rachel Dratch]

Cool.

[Kirk Wilson]

So, yeah, I was very much drawn to that. And then in college, I really got into Eastern religion and Eastern thought. Right. I spent some time at an ashram, and, you know, I really got into yoga and meditation. And then I started reading about the occult. Aleister Crowley and people of, you know, that sort of ilk. And so, no, I've always been fascinated by these things. I'm skeptical entirely about them, but I'm fascinated by it. You know, when I was living in Los Angeles, I used to go out to the desert, Joshua Tree, right? And there's this place called the Integratron, which is fascinating. This man said he was getting messages from these extraterrestrials from Venus, and he decides to build this perfect, like, geometric dome out in the middle of the desert. And so I go there because I'm like, I've got to go there. I've got to experience this stuff. I've always been fascinated by these things, right? And so I go and they do these, and it's this perfect, geometric, sort of wooden dome, and there was a Tesla coil underneath it. This guy died in sort of a mysterious way, people believe, because he built it to sort of communicate with aliens or time travel. And that was his goal, Right. And he he died. Some people believe he turned the Tesla coil on and electrocuted him. Maybe. Or possibly he just died of natural causes. Right. So I go out there and. And we do this, the sound bowl this. And it's like the vibrations are going through your head. And I'm open for all of this stuff, right? So I don't know. I've always been intrigued by it.

[Rachel Dratch]

Ever wake up feeling sweaty, freezing, or just uncomfortable? The temperature in your bedroom can make or break your sleep. That's why I switched to Miracle made sheets. They're inspired by NASA technology and use silver infused temperature regulating fabric to help you sleep perfectly all night long. Hot sleeper, cold sleeper, doesn't matter. These sheets help keep you in the comfort zone all night long. And Miracle made sheets stay clean longer. Yeah. Thanks to their antibacterial silver technology, Miracle made sheets stay cleaner and fresher up to three times longer than regular sheets. That means fewer odors, fewer wash cycles and way less laundry and all that hidden bacteria. And regular sheets, well, it can clog your pores and cause breakouts. But Miracle Maid's antibacterial design helps you sleep cleaner and clearer night after night. And they feel just as good, if not better than sheets you'd find at a five star hotel, but without the steep price tag. Smooth, breathable and ridiculously comfortable. So upgrade your sleep or give the gift a better rest. Go to trymiracle.com woo to try miracle made sheets today you'll save over 40%. And when you use promo code Woo, you'll get an extra 20% off plus a free three piece towel set. They make an amazing gift and with a 30 day money back guarantee, there's no risk. That's trymiracle.com woo using code woo at checkout. Thank you Miracle Made for sponsoring this episode.

[Irene Bremis]

Adjective used to describe an individual whose spirit is unyielding, unconstrained.

[Kirk Wilson]

One who navigates life on their own terms, effortlessly.

[Irene Bremis]

They do not always show up on time, but when they arrive, you notice.

[Kirk Wilson]

An individual confident in their contradictions. They know the rules, but behave as.

[Irene Bremis]

If they do not exist. New Teen, the new fragrance by Miu Miu defined by you.

[Rachel Dratch]

So do you want to go to the Ouija story?

[Irene Bremis]

Yes. It's a doozy and I think you should.

[Kirk Wilson]

All right. So when I was a kid, I guess, you know, I don't. Maybe we were 13, something like that. A group of us. My buddy got a Ouija board and we had never played with before. I didn't even know what it was. And he's like, you know, man, it's this thing you put your hands on, and we all ask it questions. And I was like, all right, I'm game. And so we're at his house, and we start asking it questions in the first. I think the first few questions are really innocuous. Like, hey, I don't know. Like, what's his name? I don't know. We were just, you know, I can't remember. But then we started, because we were, you know, we were horror fans. We started asking it, like, are you an evil spirit?

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay.

[Irene Bremis]

Right.

[Kirk Wilson]

And it was moving all around the board, and we're like, you're moving it. No, you're moving. And it's like, I ain't moving it, man. You're moving it. And so we. We are asking it, like, have you ever killed anybody? Or, you know, we're asking, like, dark questions. And in retrospect, maybe that's not the best thing.

[Irene Bremis]

Not at all.

[Kirk Wilson]

We went right in. We went deep, right? And so we do this for a while, and it's moving all over, and it's. But it's. It's. I don't know if we're getting, like, really specific answers, but I found it to be very intriguing, and we had a lot of fun with it, right? So I go home, and then the next day, we're. We're at school, and my buddy. Maybe I shouldn't mention his name, but my pal comes in, and he looks sort of traumatized, right? And he was like, guys, man, last night, after we finished playing with Ouija board, man, I went to. I laid down to go to sleep, and he's like, I'm laying there, and I'm awake, man. I'm awake, and all of a sudden, something starts pressing on my feet. And then it presses on my calves, and then it presses on the back of my legs. And then it got right up to my butt, and I swear it started to pull my pants down. And he's like. And I jumped up out of bed and I ran over the light. But before I turned on the light, I. I looked back, and there was this apparition floating over my bed. And I flipped on the lights, and he was like, I threw it away, man. It's terrifying. It's terrifying. He's like, I'll never touch that thing again. And of course, you know, we're sort of dumb redneck kids. We're like, you got raped by a ghost, man. You're like. It's like. So that was. So we called him, like, ghost Fucker.

[Dana]

For a while that name stuck to.

[Kirk Wilson]

This day and, you know, we sort of forgot about it.

[Dana]

Okay.

[Kirk Wilson]

Yeah, but it really had an effect on him. Now, I don't know, it'd be interesting to see if I called him or spoke to him. It's been a long time since I've seen him. But he's a normal guy, right?

[Irene Bremis]

He traumatized him now.

[Dana]

Hey, ghostfucker.

[Rachel Dratch]

He's in your phone as a ghost.

[Kirk Wilson]

Hey, ghost.

[Rachel Dratch]

He never lived.

[Dana]

Exactly.

[Kirk Wilson]

Right? Like, let me look him up while he's under ghost function.

[Rachel Dratch]

Gf.

[Dana]

What's going on?

[Kirk Wilson]

But he believed it. And I haven't touched a Ouija board since. I think it had an effect on all of us because after that we were like, all right, look, I don't know, man. And we kept saying, dude, that's not true. That's bullshit. And he was like, no, man, I swear to God, he's like. It was terrifying. He was like, man, I was awake and it was pressing on me and I could feel it. It.

[Irene Bremis]

Yeah.

[Kirk Wilson]

And I don't know if, you know, I think that. I don't know if the ghosts want a little butt sex or something, but I mean, it was. That's what he. That's how he explained it. Right. So of course he opened himself up to ridicule. Unfortunately, we're 13 year old boys and. And so that's.

[Irene Bremis]

Yeah, See, now, I thought he was older when this happened. I thought you guys were full on adults when this happened. But why would you be playing with a Ouija board at the age of like. Like 50 or 40?

[Kirk Wilson]

Yeah, I mean, well, it's fascinating. You know, when we started talking about Ouija boards, I looked it up and it's like made from Hasbro. But, you know, people were using Ouija boards and things of that nature long before then to communicate with spirits. Right. And people had a strong feeling about this, that it was. It was legit. And it's so interesting though, that just like Hasbro or whatever, like some toy company, we're like, oh, this is a great idea for children.

[Irene Bremis]

Let's get them possessed.

[Rachel Dratch]

Kids do this. And I still have it in my closet for when we tried.

[Irene Bremis]

That's right. And I wouldn't try it.

[Rachel Dratch]

No luck.

[Irene Bremis]

I know. Yeah.

[Dana]

I was too afraid.

[Rachel Dratch]

Oh, yeah. So some people, like, if you look on TikTok. Ouija.

[Dana]

No, some people say, like, you know.

[Rachel Dratch]

Don'T ever have one in your house. Like it opens you up to.

[Irene Bremis]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rachel Dratch]

Dark forces.

[Kirk Wilson]

Well, I have to say, like, after he told me That I got worried. I'm like, God, I hope I didn't bring a spirit home with me.

[Irene Bremis]

Right.

[Kirk Wilson]

And I didn't, fortunately. But no, I mean, I.

[Rachel Dratch]

It.

[Kirk Wilson]

I don't know.

[Irene Bremis]

It's crazy. And, like, Hasbro, like, they do these, like, you know, they're toys for children, you know, and children are the most open and susceptible to being possessed.

[Rachel Dratch]

All right.

[Kirk Wilson]

Was that right?

[Rachel Dratch]

According to me.

[Irene Bremis]

Well, I. Sweetie. But, you know, it's probably true.

[Dana]

I've heard, like, well, whatever.

[Rachel Dratch]

Like, when a little kid is like. Like, you're my other mommy. Like, like that whole thing. That whole, like, reincarnation thing.

[Dana]

Definitely. There's a lot of. I. I'm like.

[Rachel Dratch]

Like, I'm a target audience on TikTok, because I get a lot of that on my feed.

[Irene Bremis]

Oh, my gosh.

[Kirk Wilson]

Yes.

[Dana]

I mean, I guess if you wanted.

[Rachel Dratch]

To be the skeptic on that story, you could say, like, well, he's an adolescent and he just had this, like, scary thing, and then he's having this sort of, like, negative, sexual. I don't want to say fantasy, because I'm not putting that on. On gf, but I just mean a negative fantasy. But that's the wrong word, right? Hallucination.

[Irene Bremis]

I don't know. It's like a hallucination.

[Rachel Dratch]

Who knows?

[Dana]

Who knows?

[Irene Bremis]

Yeah.

[Kirk Wilson]

I mean, maybe.

[Irene Bremis]

Now, you boys weren't drinking or smoking any weed?

[Kirk Wilson]

No, no, we were. Yeah. I mean, we were too young for that. I mean. I mean, I guess you could have done it, but we weren't doing that. No, we were like. Yeah, we were probably, like, 13, and it seemed like harmless fun. Of course, you know now.

[Rachel Dratch]

Do you know where he is now?

[Kirk Wilson]

I do, yeah. Exactly. Yeah. He lives close to where we grew up. He's just a normal guy, you know, it didn't have, I think, any lasting effect on him. We've never spoken about it. I mean, I was just sort of trying to think of, like, what are some of the woo woo things that I've experienced in my life. And Irene and I were talking about this, and so that's. It's a crazy.

[Irene Bremis]

Now, I have a question. What about your mom or your dad? I mean, I'm guessing most dads aren't woo woo. But was your mom woo woo at all?

[Kirk Wilson]

Well, my mom, I grew up Southern Baptist. Right. And so on my dad's side, there's a lot of preachers and, you know, Southern Baptist preachers. You know, there's a lot of superstition growing up Southern Baptist is unique. You know, it's sort of like one step away from snake charmers almost, Right. My dad, I found. It's interesting, I found some books on my dad's bookshelf. There was one called like Psychic Self Defense. And then the one that was like Psychic Mental Domination. And it was like this guy's head with like these circles coming out of his third eye. And I was like, what is this, man? My dad was like an old school country boy and a football coach. Right. And so he was very much into motivational speaking. And I don't know, I mean, he was evidently drawn to some of this. He never spoke to me about it. But that book's fascinating. I mean, I picked it up. My brother and I still laugh about that book.

[Irene Bremis]

See, I stand corrected. Your dad was more woo woo, maybe.

[Kirk Wilson]

My mother was very much into yoga, but, you know. No, I mean, they were Southern Baptist, you know, they didn't, you know. No, they, we, we didn't have like crystals in our house and, you know, things of that nature. But.

[Irene Bremis]

Yeah, but you're still trying to stave off the demonic forces with some mind control, right?

[Kirk Wilson]

Yeah, yeah. Well, I think, I think that that's, you know, look, when you grow up Southern Baptist, there's a lot of hellfire and brimstone.

[Dana]

Yeah.

[Kirk Wilson]

And I think that people do believe in sort of demonic forces. Right. And that can play in your mind whether it's. I mean, I don't know, I mean, there would be like traveling pastors to come through our town. And I remember my mother would see one and he just kept saying, do you know that you know that you know that you know you're not gonna go to hell. And I remember she came home and she was like, do I know? I mean, it was like so many. Do you knows? It's like, well, I mean, who knows? I mean, Jesus, like that guy's putting a. And so there was a lot of that where it's like this fear of damnation. Right. And sin and, you know, so. And I think my father at one point in time had like hands laid on him and stuff. But that's somewhat common in the sort of Southern Baptist ethos, right? I think so. I think he was very open to that in a way, you know, so. Yeah, maybe it's sort of in me in a weird way. Yeah.

[Rachel Dratch]

Wow, that's a good cavalcade of tales.

[Irene Bremis]

That really was. Kirk, you over deliver, if you don't mind me saying.

[Rachel Dratch]

So, sweetie, does Kirk know about our pendulum?

[Dana]

Oh, did you tell.

[Irene Bremis]

I forgot to tell him about the Pendulum.

[Kirk Wilson]

Okay.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay. This is how we end every episode. We do a pendulum reading.

[Irene Bremis]

Yes.

[Rachel Dratch]

Because Irene. Irene, why don't you explain your history with the pendulum?

[Irene Bremis]

Well, the history with the pendulum. Thank you, Rachel, for allowing me to do so, because I like to give it a little plug. I actually picked an entire football season with this pendulum and it got a write up in the HuffPost. That's right.

[Kirk Wilson]

Oh, nice.

[Rachel Dratch]

But basically, you think of a yes or no question, and then we always say, don't ask anything that's going to make you sad if it answers the wrong way. And you're going to reveal it, too. So something you're willing to reveal, but you think of it, and then Irene will do the pendulum. It swings one way for yes and the other way for no.

[Kirk Wilson]

Okay.

[Irene Bremis]

Are we both going to do it?

[Rachel Dratch]

I'll do. Okay, mine.

[Irene Bremis]

This is.

[Rachel Dratch]

Just.

[Irene Bremis]

Don't let me say.

[Dana]

Show me no.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay. So do you have a question in mind or do you want to move?

[Kirk Wilson]

No, I think I can think of one. Yeah.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay.

[Dana]

All right.

[Irene Bremis]

Let me just like swinging wildly. Okay, here we go. Now we'll do it. I mean, it's a yes. Okay, It's a yes. Sorry.

[Rachel Dratch]

I got a yes. I got a yes, too.

[Irene Bremis]

I got a yes.

[Rachel Dratch]

We both got a yes.

[Kirk Wilson]

Okay.

[Irene Bremis]

What was it? It's a wild yes.

[Kirk Wilson]

I think it's an emphatic no. So I. Well, so I went to East Carolina University. So I just asked, will East Carolina ever win a national football championship? There is no way they will. I mean, maybe at some point in time.

[Irene Bremis]

What's going on?

[Kirk Wilson]

I mean, they're pretty horrible at football. So I was thinking. Okay, but maybe down the road.

[Irene Bremis]

Are you calling Penche a liar?

[Dana]

I mean, and I have a.

[Kirk Wilson]

They haven't won one yet. We could come back in a few years and. And they could have done it now.

[Rachel Dratch]

Knowing nothing about college football. That's, like an impossibility that they would ever.

[Kirk Wilson]

It would. It's. It's a. It's. It would be very difficult, I think. They're not considered. You know, they don't get great recruits and.

[Irene Bremis]

Right.

[Kirk Wilson]

So. But who knows? One day they could be.

[Irene Bremis]

Well, you know, Penji's strong point is football. This is Penji's. And Penji, no surprise, is an underdog picker.

[Kirk Wilson]

Well, they're not going to win this year because they're not playing all that well.

[Irene Bremis]

Okay.

[Kirk Wilson]

Yeah. I'm from a big, you know, football family.

[Rachel Dratch]

Right. Your dad.

[Kirk Wilson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rachel Dratch]

Did you play, too?

[Kirk Wilson]

I did play football for my father and was a walk on at East Carolina. Briefly.

[Rachel Dratch]

Oh, okay.

[Kirk Wilson]

Yeah, my father. The football stadium is named after my father. My hometown. What?

[Rachel Dratch]

In your hometown?

[Irene Bremis]

I did not know this.

[Kirk Wilson]

Gwen G. Wilson Field at Cougar Stadium.

[Rachel Dratch]

What?

[Kirk Wilson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was awesome.

[Irene Bremis]

Wow, that's amazing.

[Rachel Dratch]

Shout out to Glenn G. Wilson.

[Kirk Wilson]

I know.

[Irene Bremis]

That's right.

[Rachel Dratch]

All right.

[Kirk Wilson]

Well, God rest his soul.

[Irene Bremis]

Aw, he's with my dad.

[Kirk Wilson]

Yeah.

[Rachel Dratch]

And mine.

[Kirk Wilson]

And on that note, maybe we can summon them.

[Dana]

Someone break out the Ouija. Okay.

[Irene Bremis]

That was amazing.

[Rachel Dratch]

All right, thank you so much, Kirk. Thanks for joining us.

[Irene Bremis]

Yeah, thank you so much. That was so much fun. I loved all these stories. I mean, wow.

[Rachel Dratch]

It's like sitting around a campfire.

[Irene Bremis]

It really is.

[Rachel Dratch]

Hearing some good old ghost stories right in time for Halloween.

[Irene Bremis]

That's right. Minus the moonshine.

[Kirk Wilson]

Oh, we could do some moonshine, but.

[Irene Bremis]

We can do it with moonshine in the future.

[Kirk Wilson]

We definitely had quite a bit of moonshine. Yeah, totally.

[Rachel Dratch]

All right, thanks, Kirk.

[Kirk Wilson]

Well, thank you, guys.

[Irene Bremis]

Thank you.

[Rachel Dratch]

And you can find me on Instagram @Ray Dratch. That's R A E Dratch. And you can find Irene at IreneBremis. That's B R E M I S Bremis. And thanks for listening. Thanks for joining me on this journey into the world of Woo Woo. Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch is a Q Code production executive produced by David Henning and Steve Wilson. Produced by Alexa Gabriel Ramirez, edited by Will Tendi.