Meredith Zinner: Talking To Turtles And Swimming With Whales

Summary

Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch — Episode Summary

Episode Title: Meredith Zinner: Talking To Turtles And Swimming With Whales
Podcast: Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch
Host: Rachel Dratch | Co-host: Irene Bremis
Guest: Meredith Zinner (Photographer, former improviser)
Release Date: March 4, 2026

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Overview

This episode features Rachel Dratch and Irene Bremis in conversation with their friend, photographer, and self-professed “super empath” Meredith Zinner. The trio dives deep into topics of creative evolution, animal communication, intuition, facing discomfort, and personal transformation—peppered with humor, warmth, and stories about talking to turtles and learning to swim with whales.

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Key Discussion Points

Meredith’s Origin Story: From Improv to Photography

• Meredith and Rachel’s Roots: The two reminisce about meeting in Chicago improv days, with Rachel praising Meredith’s “special energy” both on and off stage (02:11).
• The Photography Pivot: Meredith explains her transition from acting/comedy into “kid and pet-focused family photography,” putting children’s individuality at the center. She seeks to show children “as seen and loved and adored and cherished for who they are, not just their part in the family” (02:49).
• Approach to Portraiture: Meredith emphasizes authenticity—no fake smiles or “cheese,” but playful engagement:

  "I want them to be whoever they are, and I love them all." — Meredith (04:30)

• Long-term Client Connections: She shares moving stories about photographing the same families for 18 years, creating annual albums that document kids growing up (05:13).

Becoming More Woo Woo: Empathy, Dreams, and Intuition (13:27)

• Meredith’s Intuitive Side:

  “I’ve always been super witchy… like, I don’t know numbers, but I can always tell what time it is… I have a very witchy kind of intuition.” — Meredith (13:27)

• She recounts psychic dreams and displays “super empath” abilities, but is skeptical about traditional psychics, noting that all her readings have been off (14:42).

[15:38] Animal Communication & the Turtle Connection

• Remarkable Story: Talking with Joffrey the Turtle (16:49–22:10)
  • While photographing a woman’s pets, Meredith describes a powerful, inexplicable experience communicating with a shy turtle named Joffrey.
  • Meredith engages the turtle telepathically, ultimately coaxing him onto his rock, which stuns his owner as Joffrey never does this with people present.

  • “He looked me straight in the eye and stayed on the rock as I got closer and closer. ...I have several photos of him looking me in the eye on the rock.” — Meredith (21:38)

• The group muses about animal communicators and the possibility that all animals communicate telepathically (25:32).

Belief, Empathy, and "Woo Woo" Telepathy (25:59)

• Ideas on Evolution and Neurodiversity: Meredith and Irene discuss the potential of autism and ADHD in human evolution, linking “elevated communication” abilities to nonverbal, empathetic forms (27:19).
• A memorable thought:

  “All animals have this psychic ability...they’re communicating with us, but we’re not receiving. Unless you are a special kind of person that is intuitive.” — Irene (28:21)

Swimming with Whales: Confronting Fears and Following Dreams (30:40–37:44)

• Learning How to Swim at Midlife: Meredith candidly shares how her lifelong fear of water transformed when she was offered the chance to swim with whales—contingent on learning to swim in three weeks.
• The Whale Encounter:

  “I learned how to swim enough to be in the middle of the ocean...And I got to be with humpback whales and their calves…you cannot—I could not process what was happening.” — Meredith (33:27–33:50)

• Personal Transformation via Synchronized Swimming: Prompted by her coach’s belief, Meredith began synchronized swimming and now practices regularly, loving the newfound comfort underwater.

  “Anytime I can be in and under the water, that’s where I am. I’m in the pool three to four times a week.” — Meredith (39:47)

• Rachel and Irene discuss the value of doing things as an adult that are outside one’s comfort zone:

  “It’s just so good to shake up the snow globe of your brain as an adult and try…” — Rachel (41:53)

The Power of Encouragement

• Belief and Support:

  “The power of somebody else believing you...and also not gatekeeping something from you, but rather inviting you in...” — Meredith (38:15)

Lighthearted Woo Woo: The Pendulum Game (45:53–48:37)

• Meredith asks:
  • “Do bugs dream?” [Answer: Yes from both pendulums!] (47:30–47:38)
  • “Can you guys roughly tell me the end of time?” [Answer: No] (48:02–48:14)

• “Most people ask, like, am I gonna go on vacation? Am I gonna get a job? [But] can you tell me the end of time?!” — Rachel (48:07)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You radiate...fairy dust or something special.” — Rachel to Meredith (02:11)
• “I left acting because I felt there wasn’t love. I needed love. And to me, kids and animals, they’re love. They’re just pure fun joy.” — Meredith (05:13)
• “All animals communicate telepathically. That’s how they all communicate.” — Meredith (25:32)
• “Whales...they can read our energy and know if we’re safe.” — Meredith (33:52)
• “Do you know how good it is to suck at something? ...I want to do stuff that I suck at, because I can only get better.” — Meredith (44:47)
• “None of us are cooked yet.” — Meredith on growth at any age (45:22)

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Important Timestamps

• 02:49 – Meredith describes her approach to photography
• 13:27 – Discussing psychic dreams and intuition
• 16:49–22:10 – The turtle communication story
• 25:32 – Animal communication, telepathy, and human evolution
• 30:40–37:44 – Swimming with whales and learning to swim
• 44:47 – On the importance of doing things you “suck at” as an adult
• 45:53–48:37 – Fun with pendulum readings (bugs dreaming, the end of time)

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Tone & Takeaways

Lively, curious, and deeply heartfelt, the episode is a testament to lifelong growth, the power of following unlikely paths, and the deep connections possible with animals and ourselves. It blends Woo Woo openness with skeptical curiosity and loving humor.

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Find Meredith Zinner:
@meredithzennerphotography

Find the hosts:
Rachel: @raedratch
Irene: @irenebremis

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Listen for:

• Animal empathy tales (turtle and whale connections—16:49, 30:40)
• The value of learning outside your comfort zone (44:47)
• The warmth of encouraging friendships and community

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For more, follow the Woo Woo journey on your favorite podcast app!

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Welcome to Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch,

[C]

the podcast that explores the unexplained with humor and curiosity.

[B]

Hello, and welcome to Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch, here with my friend, dear friend, Irene Bremes. Hi, Irene.

[D]

Hello, sweetie.

[B]

Irene, you're. You're getting over a little flu or something.

[D]

Yeah, I'm getting over the flu. You see, I've got that deep.

[B]

No, but are you feeling okay? Are you feeling. I didn't even know you were sick when I talked to you earlier on the phone still. But. But then I heard you say, yeah,

[E]

you know, okay, this is like a one.

[D]

It's like a you've been punked kind of flu. It goes up and down. But, you know, when I'm on the phone with you, Darachi, you know, sweetie, it's easy. I'm uplifted. It's all high inflections and love, Irene.

[B]

Today we have an old friend of mine from back in Chicago days. I met her through improvising back in the day. Improv, comedy, theater, all that stuff. Please welcome Meredith Zinner to the show. Hi, Meredith.

[C]

Hi.

[E]

Hi. Thank you. Oh, wow. Thanks for the flowers.

[D]

That's so fun.

[E]

You're so nice. Oh, and cake.

[B]

Cake, too.

[E]

Does everyone get cake? Cause it's.

[D]

Thank you.

[B]

Because it's Pisces. It's Pisces season, and we're both.

[E]

It is Pisces season. We're very Pisces.

[B]

Meredith. So, yeah, Meredith and I met way back in Chicago. You were in an improv show called Ed, I Believe. And that's where I first laid eyes on the gorgeous pixie that is Meredith Zinner. And stage presence out the wazoo, ladies and gentlemen. But she's very kind.

[E]

It's senility. Doesn't remember.

[B]

Well, you radiate special energy. I'm just gonna say that.

[E]

As do you. As do you.

[B]

But I'm not even just saying that. Cause we're on a show that deals with special energy. I would say that even to just anyone on the street, that whether you be on stage or in life, you radiate, I don't know, fairy dust or something special. So thank you.

[E]

As do you. Well, as do you. On and off stage.

[B]

Well, thank thank you. So, Meredith, now you. A while back, you moved from acting and comedy into photography.

[E]

Photography.

[B]

And you do kids photography. And you've taken Eli's picture many times. And tell the listeners what you do.

[D]

What I do.

[E]

It's kind of called family photography. But where most family photographers spend 90% on the entire family and 10% on the kids or the pets. I spend 80% on the kid and pets and family. Because I want kids to know and hold their own story and see themselves as seen and loved and adored and cherished for who they are, not just their part in the family. And then I make albums so they can kind of see and relive their lives and their selves off of screens and phones.

[D]

Wow. Okay. I'm sorry. I have to interject right off the bat. Cause I've seen these pictures, and you've done this in droves. And you are special. I'm echoing the special button.

[E]

That's very cool.

[D]

I echo the special button because these pictures that you took of Eli.

[B]

I love him.

[D]

Are extraordinary. You can see his soul.

[C]

Right?

[E]

Can't you?

[D]

You need to be a special person to connect with and especially bring that out for them, like taking pictures. I used to hate standing still for pictures.

[E]

Yeah. You don't stand still with me.

[B]

No.

[C]

You play.

[E]

No, I just want you to be who you are. I just. I'll meet the kid at whatever level, any level. I can meet him there.

[B]

And Meredith shows up. Meredith shows up. And, like, they don't even know that they're in a big shape. It's more like, look at this really cool lady that came to play with you. Yeah. They have no idea even what the objective is because they're just, like, showing toys and, like, going outside and playing in leaves and. Yeah.

[E]

They get all the attention. It's all about them. And no performing. I want them, like, no fake smiles. I want their authentic selves. How many, you know, selfies do we have of them? Or whatever shots where they're that same pained, miserable face? No, I want them. I want them to be whoever they are, and I love them all.

[C]

No.

[D]

Like cheese. No. Meredith, I'm going to tell you something. No, serious, sweetie. Yes, my love. Every single time I look at those pictures, I always say, oh, my God, he is the most beautiful, sweet. He's an old soul. Like, it just goes beyond just what he looks like.

[E]

Exactly.

[D]

That's it. It's amazing.

[E]

And I also usually photograph people. Like, I have clients that I've been photographing for 18 years, so I have kids That I started. They were 4, 2 and just born. And now they're 22, 20 and 18. And every year of their lives they have an album. Wow. And it's like the one day of the year that we're all together. Like, I've watched them grow and get into school and oh my gosh, it's like I left acting because I felt there wasn't love. I needed love. And to me, kids and animals, they're love. They're just pure fun joy. They're hilarious and they're all different. And when I look at Eli now, I see him in all those years that we took, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

I love it.

[B]

I also remember the last pix ahead. He was like 8 and all he wanted to do was say the word poop. And so you were just like, like, I thought of that when you said say cheese. This was like say poo. At his behest.

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

He even wrote a note that said poo.

[B]

Yeah, he was very into that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That was the stage.

[E]

And I will forever think of him.

[C]

I will.

[E]

I love that stage. Like, I'd much rather talk about poop than, you know, than cheese. Cheese. Especially as a vegan.

[B]

So just before we go. Woo woo. I was also gonna ask, aside from singing your praises so much, like, how did you get into photography? Like, was it something you were always into? Is it something like you did for years and years? How did you enter that field?

[E]

So I. In high school there a Milton Academy, right, Milton Academy. Remember Spring Law of Boston?

[B]

Fellow Master chiefs. Yes.

[E]

I just was thinking of you when I used to go to exercise classes and they'd always go 1, 2, 3, Foma Foa and I. So I always like think of you about Foa. Anyways, so it was high school and for your senior year you could either take classes or you could do what they called a senior project. Where I always wanted to do photography, but I also wanted to try directing. So I kind of did both. But my directing in high school was line reading. This is how you get the laugh. Say it like this, you know? Cause I was 17 and knew nothing more. But I went into the dark room and I started photographing and I freaking loved it. And I still have these photos from my friends in high school and they still have them and it's. It's like it's the same eye, you know, like you always can tell more about the photographer sometimes about what is brought out by the person or what is how they see the person or what have you. But yeah, so it started off in high school, then college. I don't know. I was high for the first half and then became an actor. And then I just started taking photos of my friends. And then when I moved to la, I had stopped and I came back to Chicago for a wedding. And everyone's like, you still taking photos? You still taking photos? And I was like, I'm broke. I can't afford film. That's how long ago it was. And they said, will you just keep taking photos? And you can develop the film when you can. And so then I started taking photos. Cause all my friends started having kids.

[C]

Ah.

[E]

And I would just hang out with them and take photos of them and the kids because they were more interesting and fun and filthy dirty and fun. You know, edible in the sense you just want to eat them. And so then I started. I like giving people things. So I started giving my photos, and then they would ask me to come back. They're like, you captured the soul of my child.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[E]

And so then I moved to New York, still, quote, as an actor. And it was my husband who's like, why don't you shoot headshots for people? Oh, yeah, right. Because, you know when you're doing shows and everyone posts their headshots outside, I don't know if they still do it nowadays, but I would look at them and be like, that's not you. That is not. Will you please let me take your headshot? So you show up like your essence, not just this fake veneer kind of a thing. And so then I started doing that and then still acting. And then at one point, my husband sat me down and was like, baby, you're miserable when you're acting. And then, like, hiding behind a pillow. But you're so happy when you do your photography. And so I, of course, was angry at him thinking you just want all the attention. Because when I have an audition, I'm so into it. But no, he was actually totally taking care of me. And that's it. I get to make my own rules. Cool. I love it. And I get to be with kids and document their childhood.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Amazing.

[C]

Pretty awesome.

[B]

I just was wondering how you got into the whole thing.

[E]

That's how. That's how.

[D]

That's great, sweetie.

[B]

In case we haven't said it 8,000 times, you're very good at what you do.

[E]

Thank you. As are you both.

[B]

They're both very, very good.

[C]

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[F]

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[B]

So onto the woo woo matters like how woo woo are you? I know you're a raging Pisces. Not raging, but you know, whatever. You know what I mean. Not raging.

[C]

I do.

[E]

I do.

[B]

You're.

[D]

I do.

[E]

You're a powerful a very Pisces Pisces.

[C]

That's what I'm saying.

[D]

Are you a march Pisces March your energy of a march Pisces.

[E]

Very observant.

[B]

Irene. You did it.

[E]

Again, Irene bringing it home.

[C]

Well, you know, it's just a little

[D]

something knocking it out that I picked up along the way, sweetie.

[B]

But how woo woo. You struck me as someone that's probably open to a lot of woo woo things, but I don't know, like, in terms of like, have you had any psychic dreams or like anything like that along the way?

[E]

Yes. Yeah, I'm super witchy. I've always been super witchy. Like, I don't know numbers, but I can always tell what time it is. If I wake up in the middle of the night, I'm usually five to 15 minutes within it. I can wake myself up without an alarm at a certain time if I need to. I've had really crazy dreams about people that were true to a T. Like somebody I remember and I like her teddy bear and this and it fell down the stairs and like all that happened. And I seem to be able to understand people easily.

[B]

Yes.

[E]

Like, I can be at their level. I do have a very witchy kind of intuition kind of thing.

[B]

Right. And that's very Pisces too, by the way.

[E]

Super Pisces.

[D]

You're an empath. Like Rachi.

[E]

Super empath. Yeah.

[D]

You have that intuition.

[E]

Yeah, 100%. 100%.

[B]

And have you ever. Have you ever dealt in the woo woo arts? No, I mean, have you ever like, have you ever gone to. I'm just digging for a little. I don't. By the way, you don't have to have any of these, but sometimes I just do like spin the wheel. Like, if you've ever like gone to a psychic or a tarot reader, have you ever done like, had a reading done?

[E]

I've had many readings done. They were all wrong.

[B]

Okay. Yes.

[E]

I even had like somebody who spoke with ghosts tell me all about my aura. None of that was right, bless them. I am not woo woo in that way, in the performative way. Like, oh, this is. I just am not. I don't. Everything they've said has been wrong. So no, I really not woo woo in any big.

[B]

In any of those range of goods and services. Yeah, well, yeah, I just don't. Irene and I also have like our. What are we trying to say, Irene? Our notora and media. We have a skeptical side about all that.

[E]

I do too.

[B]

And we believe that. Like we believe.

[D]

Well, I don't know.

[B]

I think Irene, we feel the same, but I think we believe that like those powers can exist, but often not, like on command and for money and

[E]

all that, you know? Yes, I do know that. There are some amazing animal psychics and interspecies communication. There are incredible. There's this one incredible woman whose name I can't remember right now, but she is extraordinary and she absolutely communicates with animals. And it's something I want to learn because I started doing it. I had an experience where I spoke with a turtle. And it was. It's another story, but it's an insane story.

[B]

Wait, can we hear it?

[D]

We want to hear it.

[B]

Yes, we want to hear about turtle talk. Wait, before you launch into this, let me just say this. Just a couple hours ago, I was talking. We did have one animal communicator on a long time ago, but I wanted to contact one because there's some things that Raffles is doing that I'm like, okay, I really want. And now the list is piling up. I just told Irene a couple hours ago I want to have another animal communicator on. And this time, like, I actually have questions for them. So I'm very curious about this topic today anyway. And then, of course, I want to hear that you talked with a turtle.

[C]

Okay.

[E]

Okay. So here's the thing. I was hired a couple months ago to photograph. I often do what's called grace sessions, which is end of life sessions with people and their pets, which is super intense. And I highly encourage people to photograph them and their pets together before it's too late. So this woman reached out and said, my cat has cancer. She's on a feeding tube. I'd really like to celebrate this last stage of her life. Will you come over? And so we talked. It turns out she also has a turtle. And I was like, you have a turtle? Because I love turtles. And I do remember at some photo seminar thing, we went to this place where there was this 92 year old turtle. And everyone's, you know, photographing all this other crap, but not crap, it's what they want to photograph. And I'm just drawn to the turtle. And the turtle walks right up to me. This isn't even the turtle story, but this turtle walks right up to me, and I swear she wants, like, her shell rubbed. And so I started rubbing her shell, and she was so happy. And we just had this incredible connection. And, you know, then I start crying. That was that turtle. So I already had a little, like, mmm, turtles, I love them. So I was at this woman's house and I said, I'm gonna photograph your turtle. And she's like, yeah, he's really shy. He's mostly under the water the whole time. And I Said, okay, so we photographed the cat. And I am talking to the cat, and I'm asking it, saying, you know, this is all for your mom. She loves you so much. Can you just look at me? And the cat would look at me. Totally would look at me. Every time while I was there, the cat started eating, which it hadn't done before, drinking water. Now, very often before death, humans and animals kind of have this resurge of energy, kind of as a last hurrah. But this was not that last hurrah. The animals, when I photograph them at end of life, know. They know this is their time for some reason. Anyways, so I said, I'm also gonna see Joffrey, which is the turtle's name. No, wait a minute.

[B]

Hold on. I need a. I need a minute. I need a minute. That the turtle.

[E]

And I can tell you why.

[B]

Name was Joffrey.

[E]

She found it. I can't remember. It was on some trip, and there were all these baby turtles, like, either going into the sea, but this turtle fell into the pool, which is chlorine. And she thought, oh, my God, this turtle is going to die. I need to save it. And it was, you know, the size of, like, a large Oreo. And she brought it home, and she thought, he's not gonna make it. I'm gonna name him Joffrey from Game of Thrones, just in case. Cause I don't wanna form too close of an attachment with him. So lo and behold, 12 years later, he's like the size of a football. And so he's in his tank. And there's, you know, turtles like to be under the water mostly. And they also like sometimes to sun themselves on, like, a rock or something. And she says, the only time he's ever on a rock is when nobody's around. She's never seen him on the rock. He's never been on the rock. And I said, fine. So I was with him and just telling him how much I loved him and how amazing he was and how I appreciate and thankful, but I could get. I swear I could get his attention. And it sounds crazy, but I swear I could get his attention. And he was just saying, like, I'm here. Hi. Could you ask her to give me a little more attention and love? And I said, absolutely. So then I'm packing up to go, and I am, you know, saying the next steps. This is how things work. And then I look at my client, and the turtle's behind her, and he's on the rock. He's fully on the rock. And I said, geoffrey's on the rock.

[C]

He's on the rock.

[E]

Don't move. And she could see through the reflection of the microwave in front of her that he was on the rock. And she said, I have never seen him do this with anybody here. Usually if I come home and I see he's on the rock, I have to duck down. Cause if he sees me, he'll hide because he senses an intruder and then protects himself in the water. And I said, okay, can I just try and photograph him? Can I just try? Can I just try? And she's like, go ahead. It's not gonna work. Go ahead. So I'm still talking to Joffrey, saying, I love you so much. Thank you so much for showing me your full self. I'm so honored. Would it be okay if I came closer and I could take a picture of you? And he looked me straight in the eye and stayed on the rock as I got closer and closer. And I was eventually like a foot away. And I have several photos of him looking me in the eye on the rock. I once also saw this elephant. And she remembered me so much like it was. Yeah.

[D]

So they have good memories. So it's true.

[E]

They're the greatest things in the world.

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

So that's my Trichel story.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

I love that.

[E]

I do, too.

[C]

We talk a lot about animals on today's show.

[B]

Animal communication and our beloved pets.

[C]

And I don't know, we even talk about whales later on. But I'm not talking about whales at the moment. I am talking about your pets.

[B]

And right now, I have a quick

[C]

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[B]

What about. I was just gonna ask. More animal communicator thing.

[E]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

When you said you were like looking for one or have you used one for your own pets as of yet?

[E]

I have not. I have not. But since listening to more of her things. So I have one, I have two dogs now, Marcel and Buster. They're both Shih Tzus. And Buster is at least 15. At least. And he's on his final chapter. And I have found this weird connection that we have where I can tell him to do something and he will like things that he wouldn't normally do. And it's really interesting. And I so want to, like go to California and study this. I would love for this to be like my third chapter.

[D]

But I could see, you know, why shouldn't it be? I mean, you have that you really. I think what you need is like what Rachel was saying and what we were saying at the beginning of the show. You need that energy, that trusting energy, you know, that empathy which you have so much of. You're like the sweetest sweetie and it's like, I just love you, like for real.

[B]

I love you too.

[E]

I love you too. I just.

[D]

You should. And then you can come back on the show and read Ruffles.

[E]

Because I'd love to.

[D]

I feel like it's a little woo woo because Rachel just totally called me today.

[E]

That's wild. Yeah, she called me today three hours ago.

[B]

We were discussing really looking for animal communicator. Yeah. To be on the show.

[E]

There was one. One of the things that the animal communicator was saying is especially whales and that they. All animals communicate telepathically. That's how they all communicate.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

And this is something that's super woo woo. The telepathy tapes. Talk about it. Exactly. That's where I found the animal communicator from the telepathy tapes. From the after tapes thing. Okay.

[D]

I was just writing it down because I was thinking you need to be able to communicate as species, human species, all species. We need to Communicate. So if we can't communicate, the elevated form of communication is telepathy. But because we see, speak and listen, we're actually devolved with that form of communication, to be honest.

[E]

Yeah. My husband was saying that, like it's amazing. Our evolution is non verbal autism.

[C]

Exactly.

[E]

He's right.

[D]

It's evolutionary.

[E]

Yeah. I do have a dhd, so it super makes sense.

[B]

Wait, what do you supposedly.

[E]

Which is like autism and adhd.

[B]

Okay.

[E]

So it's kind of a combined and it makes sense. It's like your brain's also fighting itself. Like you really want order and minimalism, but you can make a mess in less than a blink, you know, and leave a mess. And how you think and how you feel things super deeply, super intensely.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

By the way, we had Kai Dickens on the show too. She did an episode of Woo Woo for you listeners who didn't know that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

When we kind of started towards the beginning.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

She came on, so.

[E]

Oh my gosh, you've got to have her back. You've got to have her back with ruffles. I swear, she is my hero. One of my all time heroes.

[D]

She really is extraordinary. And I just love that you said that. I wrote it down because I really believe that autism is evolutionary, like you said. It is not a disability, it is a superpower. We are devolved because we need to use our mouth and our ears and we get into all sorts of fucked up problems.

[E]

Meanwhile they're restrictions and restrictions and limitations and limitations. All of that. Because don't we only use what, 20% of our brain?

[D]

Yes.

[E]

Yeah. I think there's so much more and I think it's also kind of relegated to Woo Woo because it's not part of the patriarchy.

[D]

The patriarchy is. Yeah.

[E]

And it's different and it's so deep and kind of primal and internal and natural. One of the things that she said that I loved was that whales in particularly. But all the animals are waiting for us to refind our way, you know,

[D]

and that just leads me to this. As you were saying that I'm loving this conversation so much because in other words, all animals have this psychic ability, like the turtle. Right. But we don't. So they're communicating with us, but we're not receiving. So they're admitting we're not receiving. Unless you are a special kind of person that is intuitive so that you can actually receive that information and.

[E]

Or are open and understanding and willing and care and invested.

[B]

Good point.

[E]

Because it's not about ego. It has Nothing to do with ego. It's more about like, connecting soul to soul.

[D]

Amazing.

[E]

If that makes sense.

[D]

Yes, 100%.

[E]

I guess I'm pretty. Woo woo.

[C]

It's time for a confession. I grind my teeth in my sleep, and I've done it since I was little. I even chipped a tooth once in my sleep. So a night guard has been a necessary and very sexy part of my nighttime routine. But night guards from your dentist are very expensive. Have you ever gotten a night guard from your dentist?

[B]

My last one was fifteen hundred dollars.

[C]

What? And add into the mix that Ruffles my dog has destroyed many of them. Well, putting all these facts together, that's why I'm so happy to tell you about Remy. Remy. Night guards are clinically tested and FDA cleared to prevent teeth damage from grinding, to reduce jaw tension and facial muscle strain, and to improve your sleep quality. You get the same professional quality and comfort as a night guard from the dentist for 80% less of the cost. By taking your own impression from the convenience of your home after purchase, your impression kit comes straight to your door. You just follow Remy's step by step instructions to get your perfect impression. And then Remy crafts and ships you your custom fit night guard. You get your night guard back and start protecting your teeth. So protect your teeth with Remy by using code WOO to get 50% off your new night guard. That is 50% off at shop r m I.com woo with code WOO. Thank you, Remy, for sponsoring this episode. Ruffles, stay away from my night guard.

[B]

I'm just remembering something good. And you said the whales, because I think you posted about the whales, right?

[E]

Yeah, yeah. I recently learned how to swim.

[B]

Will you just tell us a little bit about the swimming with whales?

[E]

Yeah, I will.

[B]

Because that's not something we hear every day.

[E]

Very briefly. So. I was always afraid to swim. I never liked getting my face wet. I could not go below the surface of the water. I was terrified. It probably stemmed from learning at my grandmother's pool in Brookline where all the ladies had their hair done and didn't want to get it wet so they would never, you know, let their heads get wet. So I learned like the weird breaststroke and the weird side stroke because I was just mimicking what the other people were doing in the pool. But I hated swimming. I hated it. I hated being in a bathing suit. I hated all of it. I could not under. Like, the smell of chlorine makes me sick. So my husband and I, long story short, wanted a vacation. There's this woman on Instagram. Cassie Jensen Photography, who swims with humpback whales in Tonga, which is the bottom. It's literally the other side of the world to where we are now. And it's freaking extraordinary. And it was kind of like, this is going to be my bucket list. So it's like, one day. One day. One day. One day. And then I saw that she posted that she also swims with wild dolphins in Bimini, which is under 30 minutes from Florida.

[A]

Oh.

[E]

So we're like, we're going to go. We did it. It was amazing. Just incredible. I couldn't move. I had fins on, and of course, I had to get, like, the free styling fins, like, the most ridiculous. And my husband's like, you're never gonna be able to move in those.

[B]

And I was like, I will.

[E]

I couldn't. I could not move. I lit. When we were seeing the dolphins, like, another woman would just grab my arm and bring me to wherever I was going. But I loved it so much. Like, being in their environment is. I don't wanna say a privilege, but it's a fucking privilege. It is something that we are not accustomed to doing. So I became close with Cassie, and, you know, she'd post the whale things and I would just post videos of me weeping at them. Then out of the blue, she says, I have an extra space. I would love for you to come with.

[B]

Blah, blah, blah.

[E]

The only thing is, you have to learn how to swim. And it's in three weeks. Whoa.

[B]

Terrifying.

[E]

I wanted to do this more than anything. And so I signed up for swimming lessons, like, twice a week. And I would go to the Y for 20 minutes a day, and just, like, with a paddleboard kick and go nowhere.

[B]

Go nowhere.

[E]

Wouldn't move. Cut to. I learned how to swim enough to be in the middle of the ocean, super, super choppy. And I got to be with humpback whales and their calves. And I tell you, the first time I was there, the mama calf came straight up to me. And Cassie's like, meredith, get out of the way.

[B]

She's coming right for you.

[E]

And I swam fast enough to get out of the way. And then the mama and the baby just stayed floating on the top, just absorbing our love and energy. And it was something that was the only way I could just. It was bigger than dreams. Like, you cannot. I could not process what was happening. And by the last time, we saw the exact same mama and baby for our last drop, as we did the first drop. And they were. As they were coming up together, there was such tenderness and this bond of love. And these whales are massive. They could do so much destruction, and we've done so much destruction to them, yet they still trust us. They still trust us, and they can read our energy and know if we're safe or not. Because if the mom senses the calf is not safe, they're gone within a split second. Just experiencing that, I just kind of wept for hours. It was one of the most amazing things. And since then, I went and took lessons at the Y. And my swimming teacher, his name was Kirsten. And the very first class, I'm like, I'm in the wrong class. This is too hard. I can't do this. I think I should be at the lower level. And she goes, you're right where you belong. And I was like, I don't think so.

[D]

I.

[E]

And she said, trust. I know it. And then she started calling me, like, dancer. And I'm like, I'm not a dancer. I walk into myself. Then she said, you know, I do synchronized swimming, and I think you'd be amazing at it. And I laughed in her face because that was literally the last thing I could ever imagine myself like. I don't go out in the sun, let alone in a. In the water. Are you kidding me? Not going to happen. And she said, I think you should try it. And I said, okay. That is honestly one of the last things I could ever see myself doing. So I have to. I have to do it. And I've now been synchronized swimming for five months. I'm part of the team. What? The second lesson, she's like, okay, let's just practice going upside down in the water. And I did it. And she goes, how was it? I know it's really scary. I know. It's really kind of unbalancing. And I said, do you know what? And she goes, what? I said, it's really comfortable and beautiful and kind of natural. And I kind of want to be underwater upside down all the time. And so now I am a beginner synchronized swimmer, and I can do all these. I can go underwater, I can twirl, I can flip, I can do all these things because I want to be able to someday go back to either Bimini or Tonga and be able to be free enough and swim with them and dive and twirl and twist and be truly with them on this level rather than just on the surface kind

[B]

of being like, ah, I love you. I love you. Oh, my God. That's an amazing story. And then it has the surprise twist that now you're a Synchronized swimmer. Which I love anyway. Even regardless. Like, I love anything about, like, as an adult, learning something totally out of comfort zone. Learning. Yeah. Which is a great lesson for us all.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

But I love that it started with your. I love the path it took. It started with the whale interest, and suddenly you're upside down in the water.

[E]

And it's because. It is all because Cassie believed in me.

[D]

There you go.

[E]

She said, you can do this. And she saw me in the water the first day, panicked when I was with the dolphins. Like, panicked. I don't know what to do. I was so afraid of everything. Like, panic. Terrifying panic, panic. And she's like, you can do it. And it's all because of her.

[D]

That's amazing. And we were talking about that too. The power of edifying and uplifting and instilling confidence in one another.

[E]

Support.

[D]

That's right.

[E]

We were talking about selflessly. Selflessly. Like she had nothing to gain.

[D]

Exactly.

[E]

Nothing to gain from it. The power of somebody else believing you, saying. And also not gatekeeping something from you, but rather inviting you into their incredibly special way.

[D]

That's amazing. You know what? You've inspired me to take swimming lessons because I can't swim. I can't swim.

[E]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

I mean, I didn't know that.

[E]

Oh, my gosh.

[D]

Yes.

[E]

You get it. You get the fear.

[D]

I have a fear.

[C]

You know I can't swim.

[D]

I never told you I can't swim. I'm doggy paddles, sweetie. 100%.

[B]

Well, I'm not a good swimmer.

[E]

And is it. Are you afraid of getting water in your eyes? Your face wet?

[D]

I'm terrified of. I had a recurring dream that somebody drowned in a skating pond. Since I was a child, it was just kept dreaming about it started to feel like it might have been past life. And I've had a fear of water.

[B]

You could join me. Synchronized swimming.

[E]

That even now you can. Come on, everybody. T ny. Come on, let's all do it.

[B]

Team New York Aquatics.

[D]

Every Thursday is a free intro of the Beantown Swimmers.

[E]

But here's the thing. Even now, when I am walking towards the pool, I'm thinking, what the fuck are you doing? What the fuck are you doing? No, no, no, no.

[B]

This is not the voices.

[E]

And believe me, during practice, when everyone there are like lap swimmers or dancers and been swimming their whole life and I'm like clinging to the side.

[D]

But you're still doing it.

[E]

But I honestly, now anytime I can be in and under the water, that's where I am. I'm in the pool three to four times a week.

[B]

This is inspiring. This is downright inspiring.

[D]

That's it.

[B]

I can't believe it.

[D]

I double that.

[C]

We talk about self care from time

[B]

to time here on the show.

[C]

And one of the most basic elements of self care, of course, is sleep. How can you dream? How can you reach your subconscious mind? How can you astral project for the love of goddess if you don't get enough sleep? One of the things, the most basic things is your mattress. And I didn't realize how much a mattress could change my nights until I switched to my Leesa mattress. It has the soft, upscale feel that genuinely makes me look forward to bedtime. Leesa has a lineup of beautifully crafted mattresses tailored to how you sleep. And each mattress is designed with specific sleep positions and feel preferences in mind. Yes, we talk about feel preferences now. Come on, get with it. It's modern times. Leesa mattresses are meticulously designed and assembled in the USA for exceptional quality. Plus they back it all up with free shipping, Easy returns, and 120 trial. Lisa has been tested and awarded best hybrid mattress by New York Times Wirecutter and is exclusively featured by West Elm as their go to mattress partner. Leesa isn't just about sleep. It's about impact. They donate thousands of mattresses each year to those in need, while also partnering with organizations like Clean Hub to help remove harmful plastic waste from our oceans. So go to Lisa.com for their spring sale. 20% off mattresses. Plus get an extra 50 off with promo code Woo. Exclusive for our listeners. That's promo code woo for 20% off mattresses plus an extra $50 off. Support our show and let them know we sent you after checkout Lisa.com promo code WOO.

[B]

We're in rehearsal for this show right now and it's all like, yeah, what show? Rocky Horror.

[E]

Oh, fuck yes.

[C]

Who are you?

[B]

I'm the narrator.

[E]

Amazing.

[B]

The narrator is off to the side, right? The narrator doesn't have to do any dancing. Well, at this rehearsal they have this thing where like the whole cast, like, second day, let's do a two hour dance session. Okay? And oh my God, like, it wasn't choreography. It was just like dancing with little assignments like, get with a partner. And now you're aliens and now you're. So anyway, there I was. And the thing, the reason I'm even saying this is like that thing about your adult brain tells you, like, I'm not good at this. I haven't done this since, whatever, like acting class when I was 20 whatever it might be. And I definitely had these, like, barricades boing up in my soul of like, just get through this, you know, you can't do this, whatever. Even though it wasn't like hard moves, it was just more like doing an activity that isn't in your, like, usual track, you know? And I just think it's just so good to shake up the snow globe of your brain as an adult and try. Did you feel. After I felt good, I still felt like. Like, I can't believe I did that. But, you know, and I still. Partway through, I was definitely like, is this gonna be over soon? Like, I didn't have necessarily the best attitude, but I was showing up for it. But it's just like that reminder as an adult to do things that you're not necessarily gonna excel at. And you do feel uncomfortable about because I think it's just very good for your neural pathways and your body, by the way, if it's an athletic thing at all. Yeah.

[E]

I think it is so important to put yourself in slightly uncomfort situations because that's gonna induce and change by putting yourself and being like, I can't do this, I can't do this. I can't just say I've not done this yet.

[B]

Right.

[E]

Because the fact that we stop learning when we reach 40 or whatever the fuck is ridiculous. We still have growth. And I swear there are people walking around who are opera singers who have no idea. Do you know, if you told me five and a half months ago that I had a knack for synchronized swimming, I would tell you to go fuck yourself. Because it's literally the furthest, furthest, furthest. It's the furthest thing from my comfort zone.

[B]

Well, and one other thing about this is when we say learning, like learning new things, you often think of your head and keeping your brain agile. Like, you hear, like, do crosswords, whatever. Learn a language, play an instrument, which is also amazing and great. But I don't think about doing anything, like, physical new because that's just not where I excel. Like, I'm always trying to push yourself. I'm not good at this, so I don't want to do it. But especially that it was physical was really good for me. I'm sure there's like 10,000 scientific studies about doing physical things that you don't usually do too.

[E]

Yes. And I am not sporty, I am not athletic. My husband is. I like, have never been on a team before where you have practice and do you know how good it is to suck at something. I laugh so hard at the things that I'm told that I'm gonna be able to do. Like, there's no fucking way I'm gonna do that. And then 10 minutes later, I'm doing it. And just, you know, always I try to aim for, like, 1% progress. That's it.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[E]

Just as long as it's progress and you're growing and you're learning, then you're alive and you are a human being because none of us are cooked yet. There's so much possibility for what we could do if we just try and literally suck at stuff. Like, I want to do stuff that I suck at, because I can only get better and I can only learn more.

[B]

Right. Right. Wow. Well, that was fantastic.

[D]

That was amazing.

[B]

But, you know, we also do a pendulum reading. Did you know that?

[C]

Yes.

[D]

Oh, yeah.

[E]

Yeah. I wrote it down. Hold on.

[B]

I have to grab my pendulum, though.

[E]

I have two questions.

[B]

Hold on one second.

[D]

So, Nita. Spiritual cleansing on the Pench hasn't been well, anyway. I should have already done that, you know, because she's a new Penge. No, it's like a whole process of. Okay. You know what I mean? But. But this is a gift, Irene.

[B]

I don't know where I put the silver. It's here somewhere, though.

[D]

Really?

[B]

Wait, can you hear me, Irene?

[D]

Yes. I mean, she's a beauty. Silver bullet, I call her.

[B]

But no, I don't. I. I don't. I didn't. I didn't gather the silver bullet before I came here. I'm working with the bird.

[D]

Okay. Work with the bird. The bird is also very stunningly accurate.

[B]

I mean, in honor of Meredith. It's good that I have an animal, right?

[D]

It is good. Yeah.

[E]

Okay, so I have two questions.

[D]

I guess I'm gonna go with Queer Penge today. Cause, you know, I think, like, someone

[B]

just gifted Irene this pendulum that we call Queer Penge. Because it's Rainbow.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

Nice.

[D]

She's a beauty, right?

[B]

She is.

[C]

There she is.

[B]

So you keep the question, keep it silent until we do the answer, and then you can reveal it.

[C]

Okay.

[E]

Okay. Can I do two?

[B]

Yeah. Okay. I'm good. Are you? Irene?

[D]

Hold on a second.

[B]

I'm doubting my Pengie powers, though. I've been a little off, Meredith. I'm not gonna lie.

[E]

Don't doubt.

[B]

Okay.

[E]

Don't doubt.

[D]

Yeah. Don't doubt. Okay, Ready? Here we go.

[B]

Okay, so you're thinking of your first question.

[E]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. I have an answer to you.

[D]

I got a yes on this one.

[B]

Me, too. I got a yes.

[C]

Great.

[B]

So what was that question?

[E]

Do bugs dream?

[B]

Of course you would ask, do bugs dream?

[D]

And the answer is.

[B]

The answer is, yes, they do.

[D]

In case they have dreams, too, before you step on them. All right. Just let them outside the house. They have dreams.

[E]

Just let them out.

[B]

Okay. Okay, you ready? Okay, here we go. Okay, I have an answer.

[C]

Do you?

[D]

Wait, wait, hold on a second. I'm sorry.

[B]

I have a no for this.

[D]

Yeah, me too.

[B]

Okay, great. Oh, wow. We match Irene. We're back in business.

[D]

Yeah, we're back in business.

[B]

The question.

[E]

That's great.

[B]

What was the question?

[E]

Can you guys roughly tell me the end of time?

[B]

Oh, wow. You asked. Most people ask, like, am I gonna go on vacation? Am I gonna get a job? Yeah.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

So wait, can I tell you the end of time? Well, it's a very good thing it said no. I mean, we're back on track.

[D]

We're back on track because we were starting to lose a little bit just there.

[E]

You're right. And I also said, can you tell me roughly.

[B]

Roughly. Okay, well, we can't even tell you roughly.

[D]

We can't? No, nothing roughly.

[E]

I kind of believe in that shit now.

[D]

Okay, There you go.

[B]

All right. This was so amazing. We touched on so many cool topics.

[D]

We did.

[B]

And we love talking about animal and communication. We don't talk about it that often, but people are always interested. And the people like, we talk about pets a lot. So anyway, very good subject matter. And did not know we'd be going to the land of. Of synchronized swimming, which neither did I. Amazing. And once again, it's Meredith Zenner Photography.

[C]

Right?

[B]

That's how people find you.

[E]

Yes. Okay, thank you.

[B]

All right, well, Meredith, thank you so much for joining us. Always so fun to see you.

[E]

It's so great to see you guys. Thank you so much for having me.

[B]

Thank you for sharing.

[E]

Awesome. Thank you, Meredith.

[D]

So awesome having you on. Thank you.

[B]

Bye.

[C]

Bye.

[B]

And you can find me on Instagram at Ray Dratch. That's R A e Dratch. And you can find Irene at Irenebremis. That's B R E M I S Bremis. And thanks for listening. Thanks for joining me on this journey into the world of Woo Woo. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe wherever you get your podcast cast. Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch is a Q Code production executive produced by David

[C]

Henning and Steve Wilson.

[B]

Produced by Alexa Gabriel Ramirez Edited by Will Tendee.