C (1:59)

I don't need to explain it. Anyways, friend of Irene's from way back when, comedian, stand up comic, writer, wrote her own book called Survival of the Thickest. And star and writer of the show Survival of the Thickest on Netflix, Michelle Buteau. And it's a really great conversation. We do get to the Woo Woo stories, but this episode is also largely about listening to your own voice, forging your own path. I found it to be very inspiring. And Michelle is just, she's just very fun to chat with. So hope you enjoy the episode and we'll see you over on YouTube as well. Okay. And now on with the show. Welcome to Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch, the podcast that explores the unexplained with humor and curiosity. Hello, and welcome to Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch, here with dear friend and co host Irene Bremes. Hi, Irene.

B (3:00)

Hi, sweetie.

C (3:02)

Hello, sweetie. Irene, today we have, well, actually an old friend of yours who you wrangled and harassed to get here. And please say hello to very funny lady, actor, comedian Michelle Buteau. Hi, Michelle.

A (3:18)

Hello. Hi, boo. Hi, guys. I wish you would have been like, taxpayer tired, mom, wife who's trying.

C (3:26)

I know you're so much more than just those things, but.

B (3:29)

Exactly.

C (3:30)

That's just by way of intro, and then we'll get into all the rest. But, Michelle, you and Irene are old buddies, so I'm gonna let Irene take it away to talk about how you first met and all that stuff and your comedy. I know you've. You've overlapped in comedy world and all that, and now you're very good friends.

A (3:48)

Yeah, we met through Becky Donahue, I want to say, 23 or four years ago, something like that.

C (3:57)

That's right.

A (3:58)

And I remember Becky was like, you gotta meet. You gotta meet Irene. She's the best. She's the funniest. She's the sassiest, she's the sweetest. I'm paraphrasing because it was over 20 years ago, and who can remember anything without ginkgo? And we went to msg. I feel like we went somewhere.

B (4:16)

Yeah, we. We've known each other forever. And the minute I met Michelle, I absolutely fell in love with her. Hence pursuing her like a dick. For that piece of butt, sweetie, I need to have that ass. So, of course I met Michelle and I fell in love with her. And she was like my little baby sister. And I've been training her. Not only did we do comedy together, but she was also my very first client. Sweet, drachy. When I was doing my training sessions, and I remember when she first got her premium blend debut, I was training her in the gym, and it was like a therapy slash workout slash.

A (4:53)

Oh, it was the best. It was the best. You were the reason why I felt comfortable working out in public because it was a safe space if I couldn't do something, like, there was never yelling involved. And every time I tried to go work out with a trainer, it was always someone yelling at me, making me feel bad, overcharging me. Like, it was just A really bad experience. And as someone who gains weight easily and likes to work out, but, like, can't figure out how to be in this space where everybody's like, a gym rat, like, you really set me off for the rest of my life to feel comfortable enough to do moves that I never even knew I could do and then also do those moves in public and, you know, traveling, doing comedy, going to a hotel gym by myself. I was very, like. It was imposter syndrome. I was like. I had such anxiety about it, but you were just like, I'll hop on Zoom. I'll hop on FaceTime. And so you really, like, helped me find my health and, as we know, health as well. So thank you for that. I don't think you even know like, how much you've done for the comedy community for us to even figure out how to take care of our bodies. So thank you for that. Irene. I remember, like, when I first met you, it was your spirit, but then also your belly button, because it was like the crappiest top. It was a crop top that she fucking cut. I'm like, why would you cut? Oh, she's like, not short enough, sweetie. I still wanna get fucked. And I'm like, yeah, girl, you're gonna get fucked with a burlap bag. Look at you, you fucking Greek Julia Roberts. Everybody knows. Big mistake. Huge. Where's her Richard Gere? She finally found him. But I was like, but what I loved about you in that moment, it was like nothing but torso, belly button. I think it was a red lip for, like, a Sunday morning. And the biggest hot dog. And the way you ate this hot dog while talking about politics, I was like, who the fuck is this person? It's like talking about women's liberation while, like, while deep throating a hot dog at MSG with heels. And she cut a tank top. I cannot stress this enough. It was already short. It wasn't short enough, sweetie.

B (7:07)

Oh, my gosh. Okay. That was the best. Oh, wait, you're headlining my eulogy. That's it, sweetie.

C (7:13)

Amazing. Wait, I have two questions. First of all, just to interject, our audience has never heard about Irene the trainer. And I love that you're bringing it up.

A (7:21)

Oh, my God.

C (7:23)

Side hustle as a personal trainer. And let me just chime into this, because during COVID when everyone was shutting their homes, Irene and I had worked out. But then what we did was Irene set up this little group. It was me and a couple high school friends and our moms, my mom and my friend Debbie's Mom. And we would do our like bi weekly or tri weekly workout with Irene during COVID and she got us all moving and it was like Irene's so positive that you forget you're working out. Which for me to say is huge. Cause I hate it. But yes, I know Irene. This is the Irene love hour.

A (7:56)

She's sneaking in the vegetables. She's sneaking in the vegetables for middle aged bitches all over the world. I can't get enough. The only reason why I still get wet and don't need HRT is is because you told me to do neck exercises and kettlebells. So thank you so much.

B (8:12)

Oh my gosh. I love you, Drachi.

A (8:14)

I love you, Michi.

B (8:15)

There's so much love in this room. Boy, do I need that right now. I love you guys so much. Thank you for that. You know, it got me through a lot too because the both of you are so special to me. And I just want to say, for those of you who don't know Michelle, one of the things that I love the absolute most, Michelle, and I've told you this repeatedly, I tell you on a regular basis, if I should get hit by a truck, you will know how I feel about you. And the same with Rachel. I tell Rachel how much she means to me and how much I love her. I overdo it. But Michelle, I've told you, yeah, I've told Michelle so many times. One of the things that I love the most about her outside of her big beautiful heart is how she got to where she is through pure tenacity. She did not wait on anybody. There was not a gatekeeper. There was not a coattail. There was nothing. There was a table. She created a seat that she created, a road that she paved. And he did this trailblazing straight to the top. Her career has all her for others. And I love you so, so much. And you know how I feel about you when it comes to that. What you did, you waited on nobody.

A (9:30)

Yes.

B (9:31)

At any point in time, you did this your way. And it was not easy. I've seen, I've seen the climb. It's not easy.

A (9:37)

It's not easy. It's not easy. It's not linear.

C (9:44)

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C (11:21)

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C (11:46)

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A (11:48)

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C (11:57)

Irene, just for our listeners, you started out in stand up, correct? I just wanna get this right. I did wanna know, like, how did you start out in stand up? And then I know that you created your own show and all that. And Irene and I were at the premiere screening and we do have a fun little psychic story around that, which we gotta tell you.

A (12:15)

Oh, my God, I can't wait.

C (12:17)

Cause it's hilarious. It's hilarious. And you are like accidentally attached to this funny Story about Irene. So, Irene, why don't you guys just say, like, just a quick little snubs of your. But then about your paving. Your paving.

A (12:30)

Yeah. Like, I wanted to be an entertainment reporter. I wanted to be like Mary Hart or like John Tesh, like, wear a red lip and like, a strong shoulder pad for et But I had a college professor tell me in school that I was simply too fat to be on camera. So, like, I believed him because it was the 90s and I didn't see anyone like me. Like, I saw, like, Oprah and then, like, nobody else. And so I'm like, I guess he's right. And so I worked in production and I worked at NBC, the local news. But I was really tired of just trying to produce and edit very basic people with perky tits to have a personality. And so I was just like, oh, I'm not up for this. And so I really found my people in standup because, you know, you could look any which way you wanted. We were all like, the freaks. Like, we all had stories, but I kind of did things the way I always did them, where I'm just, like, gonna wait on someone to tell me that I need to do something. And I remember this was such a pivotal moment for me. I was doing three or four shows a night at the Village Lantern for free while barking the crowd in. I wouldn't get paid, and then I would go do overnights, midnight to 9:30. And I was really tired of it. I was getting better than everybody. I was like, everybody was kind of holding me down and not giving me opportunities. Becky and Irene, sweetie me, teenager me in a corner. And they're like, you're better than this. You're better than this. It was like boot camp, top love. Because I remember the guy that I was working with or for, I was like, I really want to do my own show and I really want to kind of stop doing this and go somewhere else and try and do this full time. And I remember it was like a very, like, crazy moment where he was just like, where are you going to go? Like, who's going to want you? Like, nobody knows who you are. And that lit up Irene to be like, no, bitch, it's you and only you. And I will never forget that because that gave me the fuel I needed to be like, oh, right, fuck him. Because the way you do one thing is the way you do everything, right? And so I was kind of dating like that. I was working like that. I was waiting for permission and license. I knew I was good But I was like, isn't everybody good? Everyone's not good. They're just very confident and not good. And I was like, oh. And then I had these two badass, strong women point fingers at me and be like, I will kill you if you don't do this. And I was like, I'm doing this. And they were like, my Thelma and Louise. And so, yeah, I mean, that was such a pivotal moment for me. And so standup turned into, like, hosting and just auditions, not really acting, but mainly auditions for decades. And all of time, there are just, like, a handful of people where I'm just like, thank you so much for telling me what I need to hear.

C (15:15)

And.

A (15:16)

And I didn't know it. And Irene is one of those people. I don't know if you remember that night.

B (15:20)

I do remember that. I was furious. I'm still pissed off and incensed over it. Having you bark all the time and trying to keep you down. I hated that shit.

A (15:29)

But they all have Netflix passwords, so fuck them.

B (15:32)

Yeah, exactly. And also, I just saw you work so hard. I just remember how you just kept going, and it hurt. A lot of the times you had to push through the pain. I remember the pain every time we worked out. It was like a therapy session. You're much younger than I am. Even though I lie about it and still dress like a stripper, but still you are much younger than I am. So you were like my little sister. And I remember every little conversation that we had while we were together and how painful it was and how alienated you felt, but you kept going. You literally kept going. I mean, you were looking in the back of backstages. I remember that was your first break. I remember backstage was your first break.

A (16:10)

Stages, Craigslist. I was doing it all. Like, I was out here. I was doing it for free. I was going to Washington Heights to audition in someone's apartment. Apartment. I'm like, I'm so glad I made it out alive. Do you know what I mean? But I don't think you can appreciate what you do properly. I don't think that you could be a true collaborator unless you put in all that time. I think a lot of people now want to. It doesn't matter how old they are in this day and age, they want to cut half that time. They want to get twice as many followers, and they want the money and the contracts and all the stuff. I'm like, no, if you're going to be doing this for the rest of your life, you still need all the education you need the slow simmer. You need to have the rough patches to really understand how great the good ones are. And so even when I was writing the book, girl, I brought these twins home from the hospital and I'm like, I remember that.

B (16:59)

That's woo woo.

A (17:00)

I guess I have time to write a book. What? I didn't have time to take a shit. What was I talking about? And then it was like, imposter syndrome again. Why am I writing a book? I don't even finish books. Like, who's going to want to read this? And then I couldn't have imagined that it would turn into three seasons of a beautiful TV show, which is just like my love letter to marginalized communities. You know, big bitches, queer, black, fat, brown, questioning, oddy body, fatty, baddie, all of it, you know, especially in this day and age. Holy shit. Joy really is our act of resistance. And so if we can't talk about it on a public stage, we're going to put it on a public show because it's so insane. But I always think about, like, my great grandma complaining about shit from her time, my grandma, my mom, who had to, like, ask my dad to open up a Bam Burgers card, have permission from him to write a check to pay a bill with money that she made. And I was like, oh, my God. So, like, at every generation there's been something. So then I really appreciate where I'm at so I can, like, try to make it better for my kids and other people's kids. But holy shit, they gotta age. Well, this is.

C (18:11)

I'm tired.

A (18:13)

Tired.

B (18:14)

And you do do that actively. Like, that's why I think that you've gotten to such a point that you've become this towering presence for all those communities. Because you're brave and you speak the truth and there's a need for it. You're resonating with a lot of people Again, not everybody does that, but you do do that. It's a continuation of who you've always been, just forging the path and taking everybody with you while you're moving upward. You know what I mean? There's a big communal hug and love.

A (18:43)

I hope so, because, you know, sometimes you make this table for people, but they show up to. To the table with no manners. You know what I mean?

B (18:51)

Yeah.

A (18:53)

So. No, there's that too.

C (18:55)

Wait, how old are your kids now, by the way?

A (18:58)

Six.

C (18:59)

They're twins, right?

A (19:00)

They're twins. Thank you for reminding me.

C (19:03)

And which came first, the book or the show?

A (19:06)

The book. The book came first, and, you know, I really was on the struggle bus trying to get the book out there because it was. It came out right in Covid, and there was no book tour. There was. You know, I could only do so many zoom morning shows to get the book out there. But sometimes it's not about the masses. It's just, like, for the people that need it and the right people. And so my book fell in the hands of a Netflix executive who was like, these stories are really fun and amazing and hilarious and empowering. This should be a TV show. And I'm like, fuck, yes, it should be. And so it was the book first, and then it became a TV show. Now I already had, like, a. Like, a few shows with Netflix, and so it was nice to have that relationship already. And I'm really thankful for streaming and Netflix because it was really trying to fit a circle in a square with these very, like, broad TV, like an NBC or ABC or CBS. Like, you have to be, like, 400 pounds or 100 pounds for people to understand what box you fit in. And it's like, sometimes we're an 18, sometimes we're a size 20, sometimes we're a 14. Sometimes you don't know if we're black or white or other, and that's okay. And so there was, like, this chip I couldn't quite figure out with them or with me, where I'm just like, it's other or all other, you know, basically. And so I love that I had license to just really do me with streaming. Yeah.

C (20:34)

So the book and the show are both called Survival of the thickest.

A (20:37)

Yes.

C (20:37)

For those listening who haven't yet discovered the comedy joys of Michelle. Definitely sneaking that plug in. Okay, sorry. Go ahead, Irene.

B (20:47)

Well, I was just gonna say that, you know, this show is about things that are inexplicable, supernatural. It can be a show of everything. And I feel like throughout your career, I've seen your belief actually draw these things in, right down to the fact that Michelle wanted. I'll never forget you told me you were having twins. We were at dinner. It was me, you, and Terri. And Michelle, generous as she is, always one of the most generous people I've ever known, and she threw such an amazing party for my specials. She celebrated me, and I will never forget it. In fact, the people in this zoom right now, Rachel, who I love with all my heart, longtime childhood friend who stood by me with this special. I love you so much, Drachi. And also Michellee, who celebrated me during my first special. We know it's a hard road sometimes. And she was taking me and Terri out for dinner for our birthdays. Because our birthdays are at the same time kind of. And then you looked at me and you look like you just left your body. And you looked at me and you go, how am I going to do this? How am I going to do my career? And twins, they're coming. The twins are coming. And I remember and I thought, I don't really have an answer for this, except, I don't know, it's like you're getting everything at once. It's almost like you just drew everything in at once.

A (22:06)

Yeah, I do feel like a divine manifester. My friend Donwell, who's an amazing DJ and artist, he was like. Cause he struggles with bad thoughts. And he's like, just as long as you know they're fleeting. Because I don't want to live in those bad thoughts. Because I am a catastrophizer, and especially a creative catastrophizer. Writes amazing material. But I'm just like, I am not going to die on this airplane because there's like fucking Hot Pockets and turbulence. Like, calm down.

C (22:33)

And so Hot Pockets, okay.

A (22:37)

What'S it going to be? You know what I mean? So, like, it really is like trying to figure out what that balance is. And then like, also being productive with my anxiety, which I think is a superpower because it makes me empathetic as well. And I love my parents down, but their way of thinking is not mine. So if I can tune out my parents and be like, nah, I gotta do me, then why the fuck am I listening to industry or numbers or anything else? Like, I just listen to me. I know. Because then I'm gonna feel allergic to whatever I'm trying to do for people. And I'm like, oh, I can't. Like, I really can't. But also it's like this. This mix of. Cause as I put like a TV set together. Cause I'm like, let's not be a resume snob. Like, if people have the experience, let's just, like, make sure they can do the job so they get paid more. You know what I mean? Which is why over 70% of our heads of department are women and or queer, bitch. Like, let's put that out in the world. Do you know what I mean? Let's make our services necessary because they are foreign.

C (23:47)

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A (25:02)

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C (25:36)

Wait, Irene, we have to tell Michelle about your funny psychic experience.

A (25:41)

Oh shit, no.

C (25:43)

Cause it relates to the premiere of your show screening that Irene and I went to at the Metrograph. Is that where we were? Yes, yes. And anyway, I. July 13, 2023.

A (25:53)

Let's talk about it. Also, the day of the actors strike. I'm weird with dates.

B (25:58)

Uh huh, me too.

C (26:00)

So Irene, tell Michelle your hilarious tale. Now wait, Michelle, do you know of Irene's. Well now rip, but her psychic, Jacqui?

B (26:10)

No, I don't think she does.

C (26:11)

Okay, Irene, why don't you set the scene of this story?

B (26:15)

Okay, so Jacques was my psychic no longer. She died. And I hate to be cliche about this joke, but she didn't see it coming. I mean, she really didn't. But one time I had a reading with her. It was like maybe a couple of weeks before your premiere. Always ask her about my career, about my life, you know, et cetera. And she said to me, she goes, oh, no, I see you at something. It's a premiere. It's for Netflix. The cast is African American. You are there. You're celebrating. I'm like, oh, my God, what's happening? I'm in something. What's happening? Where's this coming from? And as it turns out, I was there. Yes. I was in the back, the very last row. I was cheering you on. And it was a celebration. She was right. Everybody was African American. And there was a premiere at Netflix.

C (27:04)

Sure. It just wasn't Irene's. She was in the audience. But it was built up like, Irene thought this was coming her way, this big thing. And then Irene, I don't know how soon afterwards, Irene, but you're like, wait a minute. That all came true. It just was someone else's dream come true, basically.

A (27:20)

Exactly.

B (27:21)

I was like, look, Shaki, get your fucking facts. Like, listen, I'm very happy for my friend. This is somebody who I love dearly as a little sister. Okay. But a little headsy next time about, like, who it's really for. Okay. Before you have me thinking, anyway, that was my.

A (27:34)

I love that. You know what that says to me? It says that my angels and your angels are also friends on the other side looking out for us, which is dope, because I think that's probably why we connect so well, is because our angels are also just like, these are good ass bitches. And I think we're going to do some really great work and have fun on both sides. So I think that's a really cool.

B (27:54)

And you know what I love about all. All the friendships in this room right now is we truly, genuinely, and I mean this with an open heart, are happy for each other with every accomplishment. There's such unconditional love and celebration.

A (28:08)

Yeah.

B (28:08)

And. And that's also uplifting because we know that's not always the case in this industry. You know that.

A (28:13)

But it's true. I don't want to bring up snl, but, like, I feel like SNL is a good example of we are a team, we ride or die with each other. It could be that or it's just like, me against the world. It's like, me, me, me, me, me. And so I feel like the people that are SNL alums, the ones that are ride or die for each other and are so happy for each other, are the true collaborators or the true improv artists, are also the most successful, like, the most adored. Especially, like, in a group setting. We all have to ride with each other, otherwise we're all going down.

C (28:47)

Yeah. You Know, I mean, SNL was unique because there were, like, too many cast members to get everyone in the show every week.

A (28:54)

Yeah.

C (28:54)

And it's competitive in this way, like just a numbers game. But it's. I feel like, at least when I was there, the overall vibes, I think just having done improv, it's sort of beaten into to be an ensemble, so.

A (29:07)

Yes, yes.

C (29:08)

But you're right, it wasn't the kind of thing where, like, during read through, like, well, I'm not going to laugh. Everyone was, like, very supportive, laughing and appreciating everyone's talents.

A (29:17)

And I love that it shows.

C (29:19)

Carries you through, like. Yes, in the moment. It's difficult on the show, you know, when you're on the sidelines a lot. But overall, like, the friendships are what carry you through and remain. Yeah, for sure.

A (29:29)

I love that. And that is far more important than, like, any monetary value, like. Yeah, those friendships.

C (29:35)

Yeah, right.

B (29:36)

And stand up can be very competitive, too. Believe me. It's a very comp. Oh, it's. It's disgusting. It's a gladiatorial arena up in that bitch. People are just going for the juggler, you know, and that's the reality of what we do, sweetie. Right. But there is this love and support, and I do believe that that's what carries us through, you know, just seeing somebody's their road trip. I'm trying to avoid the word journey, but, sweetie, I won't use the word journey, not ever. Anyway, it's like a road trip and you see and you see, like, passengers being picked up along the way and you're driving together. Oh, I like that. I truly believe that we all have our path. I never once think, oh, I'm bitter. I need to be here. And why is this person doing that? Because I know that the world is so much bigger, and that's why we do this show. And one of the greatest joys I have is doing this show with somebody who I love so much. There I did. I said I wasn't going to tell you how much I love you as much, but you don't know how joyful it is to do a show with somebody that you've known your entire life. There is nothing but love in this room. All times, there's only love. Imagine working with somebody in a business where there's only unconditional. That's what it feels like here, and that's what I want to keep my entire career. And I just know we have different paths. I really believe that in my soul.

A (30:59)

Yeah.

B (31:00)

I just got over cancer recently. And one of the things that I had to do was let go of any craziness. I had to let go of it. It doesn't serve me. And it was important for my healing. It was. And I am changed forever. And we know recently some other events have occurred, and these are all very important moments. I always have a positive takeaway. I know every bad thing will lead to something positive. If we don't sit in the pain. Like you said, Michelle, in the past, those thoughts that float by, we're not allowed to take those in and nurture them.

A (31:37)

It's one of those things where, how much are you giving and how much are you getting? You know, is the juice worth the sweets? And that's like, a terrible example. But it's like, at this point, it's easier for me to. I hate to say it, but, like, to cut people off. If we're having the same conversation.

B (31:57)

Yeah.

A (31:58)

And arguing about the same thing and you make me feel the same way, then I can't. And I miss you. And I appreciate the times that we've had, but.

B (32:06)

Right.

A (32:06)

You know, I only have energy, but for so much.

B (32:10)

That's very important, though. Those are the boundaries you're setting for yourself. They're absolutely vital.

C (32:15)

Yeah, I like that. Is the juice worth the squeeze?

A (32:19)

Yeah.

C (32:19)

I'm gonna take that and put that in my pocket as a.

B (32:22)

That's gonna be a tattoo, sweetie. Let's get matching ones. Let's do it.

A (32:26)

Do it. Because I didn't come up with that. Someone in Texas did, probably. They have all the good sayings.

C (32:34)

Michelle, have you ever had, like, any sort of woo woo experience along the way? And if you're not a woo woo person, that's fine, because there's enough woo woo in your whole, like, journey and manifesting and all that.

A (32:46)

I mean, I just described myself as.

C (32:48)

A tree, so there you go. That's.

A (32:52)

Yeah, I think. I think there's some woo woo going on. There's just so many moments that now I'm like, oh, that's what that was. But the main one that really makes me feel very okay and not scared is that my husband and I moved into this old house. It was, like, over 100 years old in the Bronx. And for the first six months there, I felt like I kept seeing people walk in my peripheral, but the kids were, like nine months, and I was like, I am really tired. I would be washing the dishes and look out in the lawn, and I'm like, wait a minute. Are there people walking? No, there's My husband's like, you gotta sleep. You need another coffee. Right? And finally, my friend Allison was like, talk to this medium that I love. And I was like, yes.

C (33:38)

Wait. Wait one second.

A (33:40)

I love that.

C (33:40)

I just like, hey, by the way, throw this in. Do you have any? And then you're already in, like, immediately to ghost town. But anyways, go ahead. Go ahead. Okay, so someone said, talk to a medium. Yes.

A (33:51)

And so I did. And so she was so great because she was saying, like, a lot of really fun, positive things. I see a lot of words, and they feel magical, and they'll change people's lives, and it'll make you a lot of money, and you can support yourself in ways you never thought you could. And this is as. I'm, like, still trying to write the book. And I was like, we'll see, sister. You know, because I've already missed, like, three deadlines. And it was one of those things where I cashed a check and couldn't give it back. And I was like. So it was, like, around that time. And so she was saying a lot of positive things, and, like, the awesome, wonderful woman in my life that made me who I am. It just felt like they were knocking, trying to say, like, really fun shit. But that time of our appointment, when she's like, do you have any questions for me? And I'm like, you kind of answered everything. I didn't even know I wanted to ask. But I don't want to sound crazy. I'm like, I see people walking all the time in this new house in my peripheral. And she was like, oh, yeah. And I'm like, yeah. She's like, absolutely. I'm like, who they? And she's like, oh, it's obviously an old place. There's been a lot of lives lived there. And she's like, they just. And she doesn't know what I do, right? She doesn't know anything. She's just telling me stuff. But she's like, it seems like you are a really good host, and they love your company, and so they just want to hang with you because they think you're really funny. Are you funny? Do you work at somewhere funny? I'm like, are you a host? I'm like. And like, you know, Irene knows, like, I'm a community organizer. Like, I don't have a party. It's 100 people and a coffee truck.

B (35:20)

And you're cooking. They're there just for the fumes.

A (35:23)

I mean, look at this double chin. Am I missing any meals? No. So instead of being like, what is this house? You know what I mean? I was like, the perspective was so nice. I was like, good deal. I am good company. So I don't care what realm you're in, you're gonna hang out, bitch. So it actually has made me feel less lonely in a way. But then, like, my son, I do believe can I think he's very open in that way. And he's very open in that way because I remember I was trying to get him to go to sleep and I was like, why can't you sleep tonight? Because he can sleep so well all the time. And he's like, I don't know. I'm just thinking about John and Devin and they had to jump out the burning building at work and they didn't really like it, but at least they get to hang out. And I was like, uh huh. Okay, well, Dr. Seuss it is because it's the longest book ever and they'll fall asleep. But yeah, yeah, I think. I think it's there. You just. Either you're open to it or not.

C (36:26)

So wait, when he said that you were like, no further questions, he just like, took that in and then went on to your book? Did he ever mention that again, ever?

A (36:34)

No, he didn't, but it definitely came out in his drawings.

C (36:38)

What?

A (36:39)

What? Yeah, yeah, it came out in his drawings. And I'm just like, you can say hi to people and wish them well, and then we just move on. You don't have to ask questions, follow up again, you know, go down this road that you can't come back from. Sometimes when you walk too far, you don't know your way back. So I said, it's okay. I also, like, threw away all the black and brown markers because I was like, none of this.

C (37:03)

Wait, I don't get it. What do you mean?

A (37:05)

I don't know. I feel like every time I've seen it in a horror movie, kids are just like, using the black marker to.

C (37:10)

Like, oh, that's so funny. Irene knows horror movies way more than I do. She brings them up a lot. And I never know what she's talking.

B (37:16)

About, but I think John and Devin jumping out of a fiery building. Sweetie.

A (37:24)

Yeah.

B (37:25)

Needs a little investigation.

A (37:28)

Well, okay, so we live near an island in the Bronx where a lot of John and Jane does are buried from the turn of the century. There are a lot of people off Ellis island that worked illegally in factories. There were fires and they would have to jump to save themselves. There's also a lot of John and Jane does during the AIDS pandemic that have been buried there. And so they just most recently opened the island up to bury COVID patients that were left for dead. Now, this feel, this sounds really crazy and terrible, but it is a beautiful island owned by the government, situated in the Bronx. And so when you look at it and you know this history, you're like, that's sad, but it's so beautiful that you're just like, oh, I love that these people get to rest in eternity forever together. And when it rains, the rainbow always hits that island. Wow. But, you know, I do feel like people have stories that they still want to share. And that's why I feel like being a storyteller is so magical and important and fun.

B (38:35)

Wow.

C (38:40)

You've heard of GLP1 drugs, right? Everyone seems to be doing them. I mean, everyone's doing them. They're all the rage. Right? But not quite the all natural solution I'd prefer. Plus, they're incredibly expensive. I don't know if you've investigated this, but they're very expensive. Well, this podcast is sponsored by Veracity. Welcome to an all natural way to slim down, get energized and sharpen your focus. Verasity is revolutionizing health by tackling the root cause of so many issues. Metabolism. If your goal is weight loss, you need to try metabolism ignite. The number one doctor recommended GLP1 booster and GLP1 alternative. It's a natural, safe, plant based aid that results in an 85% reduction in hunger and is clinically proven to lose on average £9 in 90 days. So what's in Veracity? It's a unique blend of lemon verbena and hibiscus extracts, green coffee bean extract and magnesium. Plus, even if you are on GLP1 medications, verasity is safe to take along with them to aid in boosting your metabolism and appetite control. Now, with a product like Verasity, a common question is what are the side effects? But since metabolism ignite is made from 100% natural ingredients and is caffeine free, clinical trials showed no negative side effects from the ingredients. And Veracity isn't just for weight loss. They have a wide variety of supplements for managing stress, gut health, burnout and more. You know, we talk about plant based natural health remedies on the pod from time to time. So we are all over Veracity. So make the switch to GLP1s the natural way. Head to veracityselfcare.com and use code woo for up to 45% off your order. Once again, that's veracityselfcare.com for up to 45% off. Make sure you use my promo code. Woo. So they know I sent you.

A (40:30)

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C (40:53)

Apps, games and skills faster.

A (40:55)

Try now@windows.com copilot.

C (40:59)

Wait, I have a question. Irene, you told me this long ago about Michelle. Was it this person that was like manning the standup roster, basically, like, he's the person that was like not putting you in the good position or something like that, or was that.

A (41:13)

Well, he was a comedian that also, like, ran a lot of shows. And so I think he was like, better at running shows than comedy. He was a gatekeeper. But for people in a very specific part of comedy, someone who has bringer shows. I don't know if you guys know bringer shows like you guys do, but I don't know if the audience does. It's like you're so new at comedy that you have to bring three to five people, audience members in order to perform because people want to make money, right? And so if you've done that for like about a year or two years, you really just exhausted all your friends and their debit cards. And so you're performing and not everybody knows you or that you're like, funny enough or strong enough to do their show. And so there's these shows for this very specific pocket of comedy where you're out of bringers, but you're still honing your skills on stage. And I think people like that really take advantage of our vulnerability for comedy and our love for comedy. And they want to keep us there because they know we're only going to get better and better, but they're going to be making more money off of us. And it's really sick when people want to take advantage of people like that. Sometimes I wish I knew how to, like, be manipulative, just to like, be a Robin Hood about it, like use it for good. But it's really exhausting because you're kind of like believing your own lie. And I don't want to lie.

C (42:30)

Yeah.

A (42:31)

So, yeah, okay.

C (42:34)

I was just.

B (42:34)

Girl.

A (42:34)

What was the question? What was the question? No.

C (42:41)

Cause Irene had Told me that, like, about all the like slings and arrows you took before you made this jump and that you were working so hard and getting told no, no, no, no, no. And I know that's like an actor's lament, but still, like, it seemed like you were really being not given opportunities and then you created your own. And I love that. Anyway, you like took your own destiny into your hands basically.

A (43:04)

Yeah. But it was one of those things where it's like, I always use Runaway Bride as an example. You know what I mean? When Richard Gear asked Julia Roberts in that movie, how do you like your eggs? And she didn't know how she liked her eggs because she was just doing what everybody else did. That's sort of the same thing with comedy, with acting and also, like relationships, like dating, right? You have to put yourself out there. You got to wear heels. No, you got to wear pants. And you gotta go. You know what I mean? You gotta go online, but you gotta go on this website. Or you could try it all, see what you like and do your thing, right? I met my husband, it was a one night stand and it was like it was off of a bad date. And I was like, that guy sucks. And I went out dancing because my outfit was too cute. Found another guy that was going to pay me. Drinks sound as dick. Fell in love. Seventeen years later, who fucking knew, you know, because it was like long distance for two years. So like, wow, you know, it's like, try that. But like one for them, one for you. Because same with comedy. It's like, you have to write this material. You have to be less sexy. People should take you seriously. You gotta go to this club, you can't get up, you gotta hang out. It's just like, I don't want to hang out. I have friends that I like. I don't want to hang out at this comedy club. Why am I fucking hanging out? I want to do stand up and I want to go, yeah, you know, and have a life, you know, this is not my life. This is part of my life. This is not defined who I am. I don't have to do stand up to meet the dick. I can meet the dick, right? You know what I mean? So like, everyone I think wants to be told what to do. Everybody wants the answer. Nobody. A lot of people, whether they want to admit it or not, do not want to figure out and get dirty and messy and figure out they have to do the work. And my friend told me, well, we have the same therapist. So I was like, she Never told me this, but this is good. People will only meet you as deeply as they met themselves. So if you've done the work, we could. Let's go, you know, let's cry it out. Let's talk about it. Let's have a difficult conversation.

C (44:49)

Hold on. Say that again. People will only. Say it again.

A (44:53)

People will only meet you as deeply as they met themselves.

B (44:57)

Ooh, that's great.

A (44:58)

I don't mind having a difficult conversation. I don't mind having an argument, but it's got to be productive, right? If you just want to be mean and try to hurt my feelings, bitch. I am 48 years old. I have had back fat since I was 12. You can't. So we can move on. And you could do this with somebody else, maybe in the comment section on Instagram, because that's what people are used to, right? Let's put the phones down and look at each other and have an actual conversation. I don't like confrontation. I don't like it. It's so much easier to have road rage on the bqe. But sometimes you gotta.

B (45:29)

You do. You know you do, because it's gonna turn into resentment. I love everything you said.

A (45:34)

Yes.

B (45:34)

And basically what happened with Michelle is that you were being sweatshopped in this business. And that's the shit. That's the real.

A (45:41)

Well, it's the American Apparel.

B (45:42)

You're the American. Here's the thing also, with what you're saying, and one of the things that I really believe that you executed is that, you know, when I started doing comedy, I remember all the girls were dressing very. They were dressing like boys. That's not the case now. Like, they were wearing oversized clippers.

A (45:58)

The opposite.

B (45:59)

I came in looking like a stripper, and I was told, don't do that. It's gonna be distracting if you dress that way. Don't talk about these things on stage. That's not good. You have to get up every single night, four times a night, do the same material. I've always been a prolific writer, so I feel like going out as my Sagittarius rebellious self. I broke all the rules in the beginning, and I feel like now that's what people are doing more. They're actually writing more. You do have to stay prolific, but I feel like you did the same thing. When you're saying that you were told to do certain things, you just went rogue and did your own thing. And I think sometimes you need to do that if you're going to pioneer your own path, you know, Otherwise. Yeah, you do in many ways, you're just kept in this little, you know, this little box. Yeah.

A (46:42)

Yeah. So, I mean, no matter what the thing is, it's like people are gonna have an opinion about you. No matter how nice you are or kind or sweet or whatever the it is, if they want to see you as a villain, as a bad guy, as a person that ruined them, and they're. They will. So you might as well just do it for you. Do you know what I mean? So I'm just like, what is the point? People want to keep us in a box so they know how to treat us, so they know how to talk to us. People always ask me what kind of black I am, how black I am, and who's black and what kind of black it is because they want to know how to offend me. It isn't how to, like, get to know me, because why couldn't you just, like, think of a conversation with me as opposed to all these little boxes? You want to know so you know how to fuck me up or respect me or something, or disrespect me. And so, I don't know. I feel like, what is Wayne Brady Pansexual? He just. He sees people for who they are. That's how I am in friendship. I see a kind soul or someone that needs to do the work, and.

B (47:44)

I go, soul, sexual. That's you, baby. 100%.

A (47:49)

And you know what? And you know, being friends with, like, artists, you put in the work sometimes because you see the potential and, you know they need help and, like, someone kind. But don't take me down, you know, don't take me down in this water, honey. I'm not trying to get my hair wet. Don't do it.

B (48:06)

I told you, Michelle, I want you. Your next special has to be beocracy spelled. Oh, this is your next special.

C (48:14)

I like that.

B (48:15)

How cool is that?

A (48:16)

She. She loves the voice she got.

B (48:20)

You're.

C (48:20)

You're the voice I like.

B (48:22)

It's her.

A (48:23)

It's her.

C (48:24)

We're gonna leg kick.

A (48:27)

I mean, that's pretty good.

B (48:29)

City hall. Michelle, you know, what you did was so fearless. It was so intrepid. Literally. I just have so much love for you. I do.

A (48:37)

Oh, my God. Thank you.

B (48:37)

Because it's brave as shit, man.

A (48:40)

It's brave what you did.

B (48:41)

And I also wanna say this. A lot of comics, they have like, three to four, up to six shows. Am I right?

A (48:46)

Yeah. They tape a lot of shows for one special.

B (48:49)

It was a one and done. So was mine too. Was A one and done. But it was a one and done. Packed out at Radio City Hall. I don't know how many people were there. It was crazy.

A (48:59)

5501 and done.

B (49:01)

Yeah, kudos. Hats off.

A (49:05)

Is so fucking good.

B (49:06)

I mean, you got to do it. That's it. Because you're. You're veering in that direction. It's got to be your special. I just made it, manifested it.

C (49:13)

Michelle, are you doing any more live stuff soon?

A (49:16)

I am. So. I'm going on tour. Yes.

C (49:20)

Tell us.

A (49:21)

I'm going on tour next.

C (49:22)

Going on tour?

A (49:23)

Yes, I'm going on tour next year, starting February 2026.

C (49:27)

Oh, okay.

A (49:29)

And I'm gonna be doing, I don't know, between 30 and 40 cities. It's called the Surviving and Thriving tour off of Survival. The thickest and obviously thickest means like thick bodies, but also thick skin and like really getting over that fucking hill, whatever that means. Because there's still always more. You know what I mean? I love it to get over, but it's still like, enjoy the view of where you're at. So Surviving and Thriving tour. Because I don't know if you've heard, we've had a rough go of it in America.

B (49:57)

I don't know, I can barely see it. Yes.

A (50:00)

Yeah. You know, it's been kind of a dumpster fire. And so I just love live shows and I love laughing with people. Like, I crack myself up too. This is not just for them, it's for me. And so if I'm prepared to leave my kids, it's gotta be good. So this is gonna be just silly, goofy ass, sassy ass.

B (50:25)

I love it.

A (50:25)

Like, if you have a sense of humor, you will have a good time type of deal. And what I wanna do too is try and take my kids on tour with me. Cause it's a lot of Friday Saturday shows, so I might just bring one out with me because I'm kind of tired of living this double life where I'm like, mama goes. And they have no idea what I do. I just come back tired and crusty and like kind of available for them. But I want them to travel with me at the airport and have them see all the faces that I come into contact with so they know what kind of energy suck is going on. But also that all the energy and good vibes that I'm putting out in the world. Do you know what I mean? And I think just lead by example. My parents took me everywhere and I volunteered with them all the time. And so I always had this really deep appreciation for any little toy I had. Because I was around so many kids, I didn't have like shoes for school. And so I'm just like, oh, I can't just tell them, watch this Scooby Doo episode. I need to physically show them. And so they're at that age. They'll be seven next year where I think they can. And I asked Melissa Rivers one time, I'm like, what was it like hearing jokes about you? What's that feeling like? Cause I know for my husband I'm like, you're an adult, get over it. But for my kids, I'm like, what's that like, right? And Melissa was like, it was hard if it wasn't funny. But you know, my mom always said it's a family business. And I'm like, oh, okay, it's a family business.

C (51:58)

We know how important your sleep is for health, right? But it's so important for so many aspects of Woo Woo. I mean, how are you going to reunite with departed loved ones in your dreams or Astral Project if you can't get a good night's sleep? I mean, get your priorities straight, people. Well, if you've ever woken up sweaty, freezing or just uncomfortable, know that the temperature in your bedroom can make or break your sleep. And that's why you should switch to miracle made sheets. They're inspired by NASA technology and use silver infused temperature regulating fabric to help you sleep perfectly all night long. Hot sleeper, cold sleeper, it doesn't matter. These sheets will help keep you in the comfort zone. And as an added bonus, their antibacterial silver technology makes Miracle Maid sheets stay cleaner and fresher up to three times longer than regular sheets. All that hidden bacteria and regular sheets, it can clog your pores and cause breakouts. Miracle Maid's antibacterial design helps you sleep cleaner and clearer night after night. And they feel just as good, if not better than sheets you'd find at a five star hotel but without the steep price tag. Smooth, breathable and ridiculously comfortable. So upgrade your sleep or give the gift a better rest. Go to trymiracle.com woo to try miracle made sheets today you'll save over 40%. And when you use promo code Woo, you'll get an extra 20% off plus a free three piece towel set. They make an amazing gift and with a 30 day money back guarantee, there's no risk. That's trymiracle.com woo. Use code woo at checkout. Thank you Miracle made for sponsoring this episode. See you on the Astral Plane Friday.

A (53:40)

Avatar Fire and Ash arrives in theaters.

C (53:43)

I am the fire.

B (53:45)

Get your 3D tickets now for the.

A (53:47)

Greatest chapter of the biggest saga in history. Whatever happens, protect this family.

B (53:53)

Critics rave. It's by far the best Avatar movie.

A (53:57)

If your father and I do not return, you go as far and as fast as you can.

B (54:02)

Movies don't get any bigger than this.

A (54:05)

Avatar, Fire and Ash, rated PG 13. Get tickets now. You know, I feel like in, like, I love standup. It really saved me in terms of, like, advocating for myself and speaking up and finding my voice and also advocating for other people and then also just going into any room and figuring out how to make everyone feel equal. Right. But I feel like an artist first, so I'm not gonna get caught up again. This is like, the fucking control, right? You have to be doing that. You need a special every. You don't need a special every year. You just need to live some life and then go write some shit and have fun. And I'm so in love with this job. You know, if I am the root, then, like, all these limbs that are just things that I could do. And I hope the leaves are the good vibes I put out in the world. Bad example. But, yeah, I just love it so much because we're adults that get to feel like kids.

C (55:04)

Yeah.

A (55:05)

You know what I mean? In our jobs. Like, that's fucking cool.

C (55:09)

Well, Irene, what about our Pengie reading? Does Michelle know?

B (55:12)

Oh, right.

C (55:12)

Oh, no. I have the bird and I know. Irene, I'm getting you the most beautiful pendulum your eyes ever laid.

B (55:18)

There you are, sweetie. I've been hit up on Instagram about it.

C (55:21)

Listen, Michelle, this is horrible, but Irene entrusts me with her pendulum, and then I actually. It was in my pocket, and then it went through the wash, and then it was never to be found. Oh, we're still smarting from this, by the way. And I'm still getting the guilt, but I do have my substitute pendulum, which is a bird necklace, so.

B (55:40)

That's right.

C (55:40)

Do you have a Penji over there? You got your Penji, right?

B (55:42)

Yes, I've got mine right here.

C (55:44)

Michelle, do you know about this reading thing?

A (55:45)

No.

C (55:46)

Okay, well, it's a yes or no question that you think of, and then you're gonna reveal it after we give you your answer of yes or no. And we always tell people, don't ask something that's gonna make you sad if it gives an answer you don't want.

A (55:57)

Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

B (55:59)

Yes.

C (55:59)

Okay.

A (55:59)

Okay. I got a question. Okay.

C (56:02)

Okay. Ready? You're thinking of it.

A (56:03)

Mm.

C (56:04)

Okay.

B (56:04)

Okay. All right, let's go. Ready?

C (56:06)

Okay.

B (56:06)

And.

C (56:11)

Ooh. Okay.

B (56:11)

I got an immediate and resounding.

C (56:14)

I got a no.

B (56:15)

I got a yes.

C (56:17)

I got a I have a no. Okay. Well, what do we do now, Irene?

B (56:24)

We're. Well, let's see. Let me see.

C (56:29)

Mine's still giving no. Is a no a bummer, Michelle, or is it just.

A (56:34)

It's either way.

C (56:35)

Either way works.

A (56:37)

Yeah. Okay.

B (56:39)

What is it? What's the question?

C (56:40)

Okay, what's your question?

A (56:41)

The question was, will I write another book? Ooh. Whoa.

C (56:47)

What do we do about this, Irene?

B (56:49)

You said no.

C (56:50)

I mean, I want to say yes. Believe me.

A (56:53)

No, that's okay. I can write other things.

C (56:55)

That's true.

B (56:55)

No, but it doesn't mean. It's not because mine says yes.

A (56:58)

I know.

C (56:58)

Because Irene's is saying yes.

B (57:00)

Sometimes if you don't even know if you want to write it, it's. It's indifferent.

A (57:04)

I don't know if I. I don't know if I want to write it.

B (57:06)

Right. So that's why.

A (57:08)

And the first part of that question for me was, do I have time to write another book? And I was like, no, no, no.

C (57:12)

Okay, so mine's the minds. You don't have time, and Irene's is. Is yes. You're gonna write it, though. I'm finaging this.

A (57:18)

Probably.

B (57:19)

Maybe you're gonna write it in the distant future.

A (57:22)

Yeah, yeah. No, it was. It was really two. It was one question that I had, and I was like. It was like, do I have time to write a book? I'm like, no, that's not the question. The question is, will you write another book? And so both of you guys.

B (57:34)

Oh, we hit it.

C (57:35)

Should we do one more? No, Irene.

B (57:37)

Yes. Let's do one more. Okay.

C (57:39)

Do you have another question, Michelle?

A (57:40)

I do.

C (57:41)

Let's see if we get the same answer. Okay. You're thinking.

B (57:44)

Okay, wait.

C (57:46)

You got it. Oh, sorry. Sorry. You let us know when.

A (57:53)

Yes. Okay. Yes.

C (57:54)

Okay. Okay.

B (57:58)

Okay.

C (57:58)

All right. I got a yes that time. Irene, what did you get?

B (58:02)

I got a yes. I got yes.

C (58:04)

Okay. I got a yes, too.

A (58:06)

Oh, okay.

C (58:07)

What was.

A (58:09)

Was. Will my. Will my home ever be organized in the way that would make me feel comfortable? Oh, my God.

C (58:14)

That's. You're speaking to me.

B (58:16)

That's it.

A (58:16)

Because it's. It really feeds my anxiety in a way where I'm like, me, too.

B (58:21)

We talk about it all the time. All the time.

C (58:23)

It's my biggest problem all the time.

B (58:25)

I just sit there and I have no excuse. At least the two of you have children. Okay, I don't want to hear it for me.

C (58:30)

So, Michelle, first of all, your tour is kicking off in February of 2026. Irene and I will be there with bells on. And where else can people find you?

A (58:39)

Oh my goodness, you can find me on the Instagram, on the social media. I'm currently filming season three of Survival of the Thickest. It's the third and final season, so please watch all the seasons. Tell your friends, tell their friends to tell their friends and their coworkers and their friends and their co workers too. And come see me on tour and just make the world a better place. And wash your hands after you use the bathroom.

C (59:02)

Aw.

B (59:03)

I love you.

C (59:04)

Michelle, thank you so much for joining us. And Irene, thank you for pursuing doggedly your dear friend and finally getting her here. It was a long road, but it was damn worth it.

B (59:21)

Worth the wait, sweetie. Love you.

A (59:23)

Aw. I'll take that. I'll take it.

B (59:25)

Uh huh.

C (59:26)

All right, bye. Thank you.

A (59:27)

Bye.

C (59:31)

And you can find me on Instagram at Ray Dratch R aedratch and Irene at irenebremis B R E M I s. And also don't forget to check out Irene's comedy special on Amazon. And where else?

B (59:46)

I mean Apple tv.

C (59:47)

Apple tv and Sweetie. Oh, it's called Sweetie. Of course, Sweetie. So check that out. Thanks for joining me on this journey into the world of Woo Woo. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch is a Q Code production executive produced by David Henning and Steve Wilson. Produced by Alexa Gabriel Ramirez, Edited by Ben Milchev.

B (60:52)

Here we have the Limu emu in.

A (60:54)

Its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug Limu.

B (61:07)

Is that guy with the binoculars watching us?

C (61:09)

Cut the camera.

A (61:10)

They see us. Only pay for what you need@libertymutual.com Liberty Liberty. Liberty. Liberty Savings Ferry, underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts.