#204 Christian Debate vs. Non-Trinitarian: Oneness Theology Can't Answer This

Summary

Worldview Legacy Podcast (The Think Institute)

Episode #204: Christian Debate vs. Non-Trinitarian — Oneness Theology Can't Answer This
Host: Joel Settecase | Guest: Chris (Apostolic Pentecostal)
Release Date: May 19, 2026

---

Episode Overview

This episode features a spirited debate between Joel Settecase and Chris, who represents a Oneness Apostolic Pentecostal perspective. The primary focus is the theological divide between Trinitarian Christianity and Oneness theology (which rejects the traditional doctrine of the Trinity). The discussion zeroes in on key biblical passages, especially John 17:5 and Isaiah 6, to explore the nature of God, the divinity of Jesus, and how each position interprets foundational scriptures. Listeners are invited to witness a direct engagement with questions about God’s nature, Christ’s pre-existence, and whether Trinitarianism or Oneness theology is more faithful to the Bible.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Oneness Theology ([00:00–01:40])

• Chris’ Explanation:
  • Oneness believers affirm "numerical oneness" — one God, without division — who united His spirit with the man Jesus Christ.
  • “We just believe that the one God of the Old Testament, he's omnipresent...and he was united with the Messiah. God manifested in the flesh. So in Jesus dwelt the fullness of the Godhead.” (Chris, [01:00])
  • Oneness does not claim, “Jesus is the Father,” but rather that “the Father is in the Son.”

2. Analysis of John 17:5 and Jesus’ Pre-existence ([01:40–08:44])

• Joel’s Challenge:
  • Cites John 17:5 as evidence that Jesus self-identifies as existing and sharing glory with the Father “before the world existed.”
  • “Jesus describes his own existence before the world existed...that’s Jesus having an experience of...glory before the world existed.” (Joel, [04:15–04:59])
• Chris’ Response:
  • Argues that Jesus is referencing his role within God’s eternal plan, rather than actual pre-existence.
  • Parallels John 17:5 with passages about believers’ predestination, e.g., “We were chosen in him...before the foundation of the world…” (Chris, [04:18–04:34])
  • Maintains that Jesus had “glory” in foreknowledge, not literal, personal pre-existence.
• Joel’s Rebuttal:
  • Insists that John 17:5 is about actual pre-existence, not mere foreknowledge.
  • “That is not analogous to Jeremiah 1:5 or Romans 8...where it talks about foreknowledge...That’s not the same thing as...‘I was with you with glory before the world existed.’” (Joel, [10:01])

3. The Trinity in the Old Testament ([08:44–13:24])

• Chris' Challenge:
  • Demands scriptural evidence of “the second person of the Trinity” (God the Son) in the Old Testament, expecting “clear as day” proof.
  • “We should go in the Old Testament and find these three divine persons. We should see God the Son clear as day.” (Chris, [12:16])
• Joel’s Evidence: Isaiah 6 and John 12:
  • References Isaiah 6 (the prophet’s vision of Yahweh) and connects it to John 12:41, where John says Isaiah saw Jesus’ glory.
  • “John, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, says that Isaiah saw Jesus and yet Isaiah says he saw Yahweh. So Jesus is Yahweh in the Old Testament. That’s game, set and match right there.” (Joel, [14:24–14:36])

4. Defining “Unitarian” and the Nature of Christ ([14:36–15:20])

• Chris’ Objection:
  • Clarifies that Oneness is not Unitarian in the sense of denying Christ's deity, but maintains a single-person view of God.
• Joel’s Response:
  • Broader use of "Unitarian," meaning anyone who affirms God as one person (not necessarily denying Christ’s deity).

5. Discussion of Thrones, Persons, and Theological Implications ([15:20–19:03])

• Chris’ Critique:
  • Argues that visions like Isaiah 6 and Revelation 22 depict only one being on the throne, questioning the Trinitarian expectation of three thrones/persons.
  • “If it’s been in existence throughout all eternity, we should expect to see...3 thrones and 3 divine presences.” (Chris, [15:20])
• Joel’s Reply:
  • Denies the need for Trinitarian depiction of three thrones—unity and plural language are sufficient.
  • Points to Daniel 7 (two thrones—Ancient of Days and Son of Man) as a hint at plurality.
  • Asserts, “God is a Trinity,” and that presence of all three persons is attested in the whole drama of revelation, not a single passage.

6. Revelation 22 and Oneness Reading ([18:12–19:03])

• Chris’ Closing Question:
  • Cites Revelation 22:1–3—one on the throne, called “God and the Lamb”—and challenges the Trinitarian reading.
  • “Where’s the three thrones and the three persons?” (Chris, [18:12])
• Joel’s Final Word:
  • Explains the invisible nature of the Father, the Holy Spirit as “seven spirits,” and the unity of God’s being, insisting Oneness reading misses the biblical pluralities.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Christ’s Pre-existence:
  • “Jesus himself in verse five says, now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.” (Joel, [06:03])
• On the Trinity in Isaiah:
  • “John...says that Isaiah saw Jesus and yet Isaiah says he saw Yahweh. So Jesus is Yahweh in the Old Testament. That’s game, set and match right there.” (Joel, [14:36])
• On the Oneness View:
  • “We’re saying the Father is in the Son, the God Testament.” (Chris, [01:40])
• On Thrones in Heaven:
  • “We should go in the Old Testament and find these three divine persons...clear as day.” (Chris, [12:16])
• On Trinity Depictions:
  • “You get pretty close to that actually in Daniel chapter seven, but...Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all there.” (Joel, [15:28])
• On Interruption and Debate Etiquette:
  • “You have a very bad habit, man. I get you don’t do this very often, but don’t interrupt, man.” (Joel, [18:31])
  • “Well, I mean, I’m very inexperienced...but...just a guy, man. We’re just...talking.” (Chris & Joel, [11:37–11:40])

---

Important Segment Timestamps

• [00:00–01:40]: Chris explains Oneness theology, emphasizing numerical oneness and indwelling.
• [01:40–04:52]: Analysis and debate over John 17:5 and Jesus’ pre-existence.
• [04:52–08:44]: Attempts to clarify whether Jesus had glory as foreknowledge or real pre-existence.
• [13:24–14:36]: Joel provides Isaiah 6/John 12 as evidence for the Trinity prefigured in the Old Testament.
• [15:20–16:04]: Discussion of thrones in Isaiah and Daniel; Oneness challenge about three persons.
• [18:12–19:03]: Final exchange about Revelation 22, the nature of God on the throne, and closing remarks.

---

Summary

This episode delivers a robust back-and-forth between Trinitarian and Oneness persuasions. Joel Settecase presses the Oneness position on explicit biblical texts (especially John 17:5), while Chris counters with a foreknowledge/manifestational reading and raises challenges concerning Trinitarian assumptions about God’s threeness and throne imagery. Key moment: Joel cites Isaiah 6 and its interpretation in John 12:41 as “proof” of Jesus’ deity and pre-existence. The discussion ends with a tense but respectful tone, crystallizing the central divide: Trinitarian insistence on distinct, eternal persons versus Oneness focus on God’s singular personal identity and indwelling.

Listeners come away with a deep dive into foundational biblical texts, primary theological disagreements, and how both sides frame their worldviews from the Scriptures.

Transcript

[A]

I'm Apostolic Pentecostal. Have you ever met a Oneness believer? Because I heard you all talking about the Trinity.

[B]

Ah, yeah, we've. I'm sure I have. I think so. I think we've talked with a one. This guy. We had a. It depends on where you're coming from. I want to. I want to find out where you're coming from a little bit more. So you don't believe in the Trinity?

[A]

No, we believe that there's. There was one God in the Old Testament, like absolute singleness, aloneness, like numerical oneness. One God, like Deuteronomy 6 and 4. And that one God united his spirit with the man Jesus Christ. So divinity joined together with humanity. Right. Colossians. In Jesus dwells all the fullness of the Godhead. Bodily God was manifested in the flesh in Christ. Or, you know, 2nd Corinthians 5:19, God was in Christ. So we just believe that the one God of the Old Testament, he's omnipresent, full of the universe. Jeremiah 24:23. God fills the universe. He's omnipresent.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He's not like an angel that goes from one place in one time. God fills the universe. He's invisible, immortal and eternal, like it says. And then that one God, he's still omnipresent, but he was united with the Messiah. So divinity joined together with humanity. God manifested in the flesh. So in Jesus dwelt the fullness of the Godhead. So we believe that everybody. I hear people talking about the Oneness, and they're like, so you're saying Jesus is the Father? No, it's not that. That's an inaccurate. That's an inadequate explanation. We don't say the Father is the Son. We're saying the Father is in the Son, the God Testament.

[B]

Okay, so thank you for explaining that. What, Who. What is Jesus referring to then in John 17:5.

[A]

John 17:5. Hold on. That's one of my favorite chapters.

[B]

Mine too.

[A]

So John 17:5. And now, Father, glorify thou me with thy own self, with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. So we look at that, and if you read the whole chapter first, he says that in verse number three, that they might know. He tells. He's talking about the Father, that they might know you, the only true God.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So Jesus said that the Father is the only true God.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So we see that as the most God and the Messiah, the one true God, the Father and the man, Jesus Christ. But they're united.

[B]

So when Jesus says glorify me in your own presence with the. By the way, the Father is the one true God, the Son is the one true God, the Holy Spirit is the one true God. There's only one true God. But when he says, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed, what does that mean?

[A]

So if you read, if you keep on reading to verse number. He says verse number 22. So when you say glory, do you mean deity, Divine, divinity, divine glory? Because in verse 22, he says the glory. He's not talking about. He didn't. I don't think he's changing streams and. Okay, he's changing horses in the middle of the streams. He says the glory. The same one he's talking about that you gave me, I have given them.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So I don't think he's talking about divinity. And if you. With the way we see it is like.

[B]

That's actually not what I was getting at.

[A]

Right. So did Jesus. We think that that's Jesus. God the man. Christ. Jesus was in God's plan throughout all eternity because the Bible says he's as a lamb slain before the foundations of the world.

[B]

Okay, so that's. That's not what Jesus says, though, is it?

[A]

Yeah, we don't believe that there was a. Because if you go in the Old Testament.

[B]

Yeah, but look at verse five, though, before you jump around. All right, so I respectfully. You're going everywhere but verse five. That's what I want to look at. And I understand we need to look at it in context for sure. But specifically, what I'm asking you is Jesus describes his own existence before the world existed. So Jesus. Jesus describes himself as having lived and having been there before the world existed.

[A]

Was that in God's plan or was he actually a distinct second being?

[B]

He was actually a distinct second being.

[A]

When you talk. When he's here, he talks about us, whom he did foreknow. He did also. What pre. He already forenew us.

[B]

Yeah, but that's not what it says, though, is it?

[A]

In Jeremiah, he said, I already knew you.

[B]

That's correct. Before you were born.

[A]

We were chosen in him. Ephesians 1:4, before the foundations of the world.

[B]

That's correct. But that's not what this is saying. This is not talking about foreknowledge, is it? It's talking about pre existence. Read it, read it carefully.

[A]

And I see what you're saying. And so what we say is, can we go on the Old Testament like we, we like to say Starting the Old Testament as far as your theological education is.

[B]

Yeah, I know.

[A]

Find out who the 1. Can we find the second person of the Trinity there with him? In the Old Testament?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

All over.

[B]

Yes. But that's. But, but in John 17:5, Jesus describes a glory that he had with the Father before the world existed. So that's not talking foreknowledge. That's Jesus having an experience of. Of manifesting and exhibiting glory before the world existed.

[A]

Okay, but where is it.

[B]

But that's the second person.

[A]

Give me the Father. Let's look at that. So if that's. If that's God the Son, then God the Son lost his glory and God had to get his glory back again. That doesn't make sense. But if you're talking about the Messiah in God's plan, before the foundations of the world, he was already. So it can't be God lost his glory. Because if it's God the Son, and if. And this is the crazy thing, I know this is going to sound elementary because you're a theologian. God the Son, God the Holy Ghost. Persons, co. Equal, co. Eternal, coexistent.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

Eternal Son.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

You don't find any of that stuff in the scripture, so it can't mean God the Son lost his glory. So God lost his glory.

[B]

Okay, so again, Chris, you don't have to make this more difficult than it is. Jesus himself in verse five says, now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

[A]

Yeah. And in Romans, it says, we had glory with the Father before the world was.

[B]

Wait a minute. Jesus is there. We can talk about Romans in just a second. I want to go. Yeah.

[A]

Can you show me, though? Can you show me them?

[B]

This says, jesus says that he had glory with the Father before the world existed.

[A]

But was it God's plan?

[B]

No, this is Jesus saying he's recalling a time before the world existed. That's John 1.

[A]

That's John 1 in a nice way. Can you show me this second person of the Trinity in the Old Testament sharing glory with the Father?

[B]

Well, I just showed it to you in John 17:5.

[A]

Yes. And so we don't believe that it's a literal. He was there as a second being because Deuteronomy 6 and 4 says, Hero, Israel, the Lord your God is one Lord. So the Old Testament.

[B]

Yes, That's. Which is true. That's a trinitarian verse. The echad can encompass a oneness of plurality, a oneness of inclusion. So that. That's not a Unitarian verse. That's a trinitarian verse. And the, the most you can say is that it's talking about, you know, one Lord, or the Lord is one. You cannot say that that is, that. That means absolute monadic or unitarian oneness.

[A]

That's what we believe.

[B]

I know that's what you believe, but grammatically speaking, that verse does not support your position in the way that you need it to.

[A]

Can I ask you. Can I ask you a simple question?

[B]

Well, real, real quick, because it's very, very important. We can move on from John 17:5, but I do want our viewers and our listeners to understand what just happened. I pointed out a verse where Jesus says that he had glory with the Father. That's two persons. You've got Jesus and you've got the Father.

[A]

Two divine persons, or God and the man, the Messiah.

[B]

You believe Jesus was a. A mere man?

[A]

I believe he's divine. I don't believe he's just a mere man. I believe that God the Father's united.

[B]

No, real quick, Chris, Chris, because I think that if you interrupt me, people might misconstrue what I'm saying. Let me just, let me just finish my sentence and then I'll let you go to Romans or wherever. So Jesus is describing his own experience before the creation of the world. That's Jesus being one person, the Father being a second person, and they have a relationship. So.

[A]

Okay, that.

[B]

Real quick, real quick, real quick, man. This is so important. So that relationship stretches back from before or the creation of the world, that is John 1:1:3.

[A]

Right. But we, we were chosen in God. He already foreordained us. He chose us for glory before the foundations of the world and God's plan. So do you mean. Because you said that's one person, Jesus, and then the Father, that's another person.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you mean two divine persons, or do you mean God the Father and the Messiah? You believe two divine persons?

[B]

Yeah. You believe that Jesus is a mere man? Do you believe that the Messiah was there before the creation of the world?

[A]

No, I believe the one God in the Old Testament was. And then what's that?

[B]

Jesus says he was there. John 17:5. He says he was there before the creation of the world.

[A]

Okay, but we were there when we were chosen in him, before the founding. Jeremiah. Jeremiah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I already knew you before the found, before you were born.

[B]

Yes. God has foreknowledge. Yes.

[A]

Whom he did foreknow the church. He did also. What Predestinate to become conformed into the image of his Son, and then it goes on. So in God's mind, Jesus is a lamb slain before the founding. He wasn't hanging on a cross before the foundation.

[B]

Where does it say that he was the lamb slain before the creation of the world?

[A]

Revelations.

[B]

Well, revelation, there's no s. But it does not say that. Jesus look that up for you? Okay, yeah, yeah, let's look it up. But you're comparing Jeremiah. You're comparing Jeremiah 1:5 and Romans 8, 28:39 with John 17:5, and they're. They're different passages. The Bible makes a distinction between those whom God foreknew.

[A]

Yeah, Revelation.

[B]

Real quick, real quick, Chris. Try really hard not to interrupt me, and I'll. And I'll try really hard not to interrupt you. Okay?

[A]

All right, all right.

[B]

I just lost my camera. Of course. Okay, so the.

[A]

Am I supposed to have two of you? Am I supposed to have two of you? Because I'm. When you're in Streamyard, you'll see cameras

[B]

below and cameras above. Maybe. But if you have the YouTube link

[A]

open, you can close the YouTube link. I barely got this. I'm so old school, I don't. I barely even know how to use this computer. I'm sorry, guys.

[B]

No problem. As long as you're not hearing an echo, you're fine. Yeah. All right, all right, so. So, Chris, we can. We can move on. But. But Jesus describes himself as having existence before the creation of the world. That's the significance of John 17. 5, and that is not analogous to Jeremiah 1:5 or Romans 8, 28:39, where it talks about the foreknowledge of God and God's predestinating plan, which he also references in Ephesians chapter one, because those are talking about the foreknowledge and the plan of God. That's not the same thing as, like, Jeremiah doesn't say, I was with you with glory before the creation of the world. That would be blasphemous of Jeremiah to say that, because he would be equating himself to God, because Scripture is very clear that there's only one God. So either Jesus is a blasphemer, which of course he's not, or Jesus is the second person of the Trinity. Yeah.

[A]

So, I mean, I know this is going to sound elementary to you theologians, but if there's, you know, you don't

[B]

have to keep saying, I'm just a guy, man. We're just. We're just talking. I'm just a guy. It's okay.

[A]

Well, I mean, I'm very inexperienced at coming on and. But if you go, I know this is going to sound elementary, but can you show me the second divine person sharing glory with the Father in the Old Testament, if he's really there as a second divine person.

[B]

Let me ask you this. Does the Old Testament contradict the New Testament?

[A]

Well, I know it's going to sound cliche, but we believe the New Testament. The Old Testament is revealed and then the Old Testament. The New Testament is concealed.

[B]

Right, but so they don't contradict. Correct.

[A]

No, the Old Testament, Jesus said that the, the Old Testament is a school master to lead us to Christ in Galatians. Right. So we should be able to.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

So we should be able to see the second divine person, all three of the, you know, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. We should be able to go to the Old Testament and clear as day, which it should be. No, I mean, let the pigeons loose. Wow. It shouldn't be some new revelation. We should go in the Old Testament and find these three divine persons. We should see God the Son clears day. God the Holy Ghost, the third Person. Can you show me the third. The second divine person. Show me God the Son real quick.

[B]

The. Here we go. Yes, I can. But I want to also just point out that I have shown you literally exactly what you asked for in the New Testament. And the Old Testament, of course, does not contradict the New Testament. So I think we both agree on the, on the fact that the Old Testament and the New Testament don't contradict. So if Jesus says something in the New Testament, that is sufficient. The. We're not going to find something in the Old Testament that contradicts it. As it turns out, you asked me to find you the second person of the Trinity in the Old Testament.

[A]

Yeah. Can you. Can you show me God the Son identify himself.

[B]

Isaiah 61. Yes. Isaiah 6.

[A]

Isaiah 6 and 1. Okay, let's go to Isaiah 6. I mean, I, I already know the passage, but just so well.

[B]

No, this is exactly what you asked for. Isaiah 6:1 shows it reveals the Son of God, that is Jesus. Just in the interest of time, I'm going to go ahead and read it. In the year of King Isaiah's death, I saw Yahweh sitting on a throne, lofty and exalted, with the train of his robe filling the temple. That's Isaiah 6:1. Okay. Isaiah 6:5 says, for my eyes have seen the King Yahweh of hosts. Isaiah 6:8 says, Then I heard the voice of Yahweh saying, whom shall I send and who will go for us? Then I said, here I am, or Here am I. Send me now. John 12:41 reveals that that was Jesus. These things Isaiah said, because he saw his talking about Christ's glory and spoke of him. Christ. So John, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, says that Isaiah saw Jesus and yet Isaiah says he saw Yahweh. So Jesus is Yahweh in the Old Testament. That's, that's game, set and match right there. You need to give up Unitarianism and become a Christian.

[A]

I'm not a Unitarian. So first of all, are you.

[B]

Are you A1. This Pentecostal?

[A]

Yeah. That's not Unitarian. Unitarians don't believe in the deity of Christ. So first of all.

[B]

No, no unit, no, no. Unitarian is anyone who believes that God is one essence in one person. That's a Unitarian.

[A]

Yeah. And if you look at Isaiah 6, first of all, Jesus is the image of the invisible God. God's invisible in Isaiah 6. Yeah, in Isaiah 6, all the old Testament, when you look at God, when the Bible says they've seen God, it's peculiar because you never see God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost. These three beings, three thrones. If it's, if it's been in existence throughout all eternity, we should expect to see in Isaiah 6, 3 Thrones and 3 divine purchases.

[B]

Why are you importing that? Man made presupposition. That's not what the Bible says.

[A]

We go with God the Son, God the Holy Ghost.

[B]

Three thrones set up in heaven. I mean, respectfully, you get pretty close to that actually in Daniel chapter seven, but which you should go read probably

[A]

after, because it's interesting if you realize there are two.

[B]

Real quick, real quick, Chris. There are two thrones set up in, in Daniel chapter seven, the Son of Man and the Ancient of days. But then also you say, well, where's the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit is the one giving the revelation to Daniel. So Father Son, Daniel. Quick, real quick, Chris. Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all there. And you still have not dealt with Isaiah 6:1. You asked me to show you. I. To show you Jesus in the Old Testament as a second person of the Trinity. I just did. Unless you want to deny that

[A]

it shows one God sitting on the throne surrounded by angels, and that's Jesus who's gonna go for us. So God and the angels is a trinity.

[B]

No, God is a trinity. And God speaks in the plural first person more than once. He also does so in Genesis But Chris, you're missing the point. John says that Yahweh is Jesus.

[A]

First of all, what's happening is Romans 5:14. Adam is made in the image of him that was to come.

[B]

Chris. So John, the future says Isaiah saw Jesus.

[A]

That's a manifested image. It's not actually a second divine person.

[B]

John said that Isaiah who saw Yahweh

[A]

was seeing Christ, right in Exodus 20:4, the one God seated on the throne. Which person of the Trinity is that? Isn't it peculiar to you that.

[B]

Chris, I'd have to look up that passage, but respectfully, you're not dealing. You're doing this all night. You're not dealing with the passage that I'm bringing up to you. It proves the Trinity. It proves that Jesus is Yahweh. Pre existing.

[A]

Okay, where's the other two divine persons?

[B]

I. I literally just explained that to you.

[A]

No, we're in. We're in. Okay, Take your time. We're in. Isaiah 6, you said that you only. So Jesus is the one sitting on the throne.

[B]

That's what John.

[A]

Where's the two other persons?

[B]

Well, the Holy Spirit is inspiring the text and the Father is reigning supreme over the whole thing. Just because you see the Son. Wait a minute. No one has ever seen God. No one has ever seen God the Father.

[A]

But you. You just said no one's seen God, but yet you said you could see Jesus sitting on a throne. Are you talking.

[B]

That's correct.

[A]

Manifest.

[B]

Chris, in the New. Chris. Chris. In the New Testament, the word theas generally refers to the Father, Huyas or Curios, Lord or Son. Son or Lord refers to Jesus and refers to the Holy Spirit. So when it says no one has ever seen Theos, it's referring to the Father. But John, make this easy on you. John, Isaiah saw.

[A]

Can I make this easy? Can I make this easy?

[B]

Chris, It's. Chris, it's easy. I've. I've disproven your point. I said okay.

[A]

I just want to ask you a question.

[B]

Proven the Trinity.

[A]

I want to ask you.

[B]

And now time is up, so we got to move.

[A]

Revelations 22:1 through 3. There's one seated on the throne who's both God and the Lamb. He has one face and one name. How do you explain that God seated on a throne only has one face and he's called to him. Where's the three thrones and the three persons?

[B]

That's the Lord Jesus Christ.

[A]

Where's God the Father and God the Holy Ghost?

[B]

You can't see God the Father and God. The Holy Ghost is described as the seven spirits of God earlier in Revelation, and he's also the one inspiring God and the land. Chris, do not interrupt. Oh, you have a very bad habit, man. I get you don't do this very often, but don't interrupt, man.

[A]

That's just the problem.

[B]

Listen, Chris, Chris, you can hear when I'm talking versus when I'm not. I'm not buying that at all. I understand that you don't do this very often, but the reason why you're not seeing what I'm saying is because you cut me off before I get to my conclusion.

[A]

I got you.

[B]

It was great talking with you. We're gonna end it there, man.

[A]

All right, man. Have a good night, guys.

[B]

All right, you too. Come on. Again, Chris. Yes. Pleasure talking to you. Pleasure talking with you, Chris. Except for the interruptions.