#214 Protestant vs. Oriental Orthodox Debate: He Tried to Destroy Sola Scriptura—Then Refuted Himself - Worldview Legacy | The Think Institute

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[00:00]
A
Milton Friedman.
[00:02]
B
Yeah.
[00:02]
A
What's your worldview?
[00:04]
B
Yeah, I'm an Orthodox Christian. What's up?
[00:07]
A
Oh, an Orthodox Christian.
[00:08]
B
Okay.
[00:08]
A
What's your best argument for orthodox Christianity?
[00:12]
B
No, I want to ask you because you pulled out the Bible and you were just like, oh, I read the Bible. What is determining the validation of your interpretation of the Bible?
[00:21]
A
Hold on. What's your best argument for. You don't have a good argument for orthodox Christianity?
[00:27]
B
No, I. Wait, hold on. I called. I just asked you a question. Can you not answer the question?
[00:31]
A
That's what I'm saying to you.
[00:35]
B
Well, my interpretation is based off of 2,000 years of tradition. What's your interpretation based on? You just grab the Bible and read it.
[00:43]
A
Scripture.
[00:44]
B
Okay, great. Can Scripture be interpreted?
[00:48]
A
I certainly hope so. Yeah. It's perspicuous.
[00:51]
B
It can be interpreted. Can it be misinterpreted?
[00:54]
A
Yeah, I think that you guys do it.
[00:56]
B
And what's validating that? How do you know that we're misinterpreted?
[01:00]
A
Analogia fide. And the Holy Spirit.
[01:04]
B
Wait, how do you know it's not the Holy Spirit?
[01:08]
A
I'm sorry, I must not have heard you repeat the question.
[01:11]
B
My question was, when you grabbed the Bible and you read it, how do you know that that's the accurate interpretation?
[01:19]
A
Well, I don't just grab it and read it and say, my interpretation must be right because I picked up the Bible for five seconds. That's evangelical. Study the Scriptures. We don't just grab it and we don't just grab it and go, whatever. I think right away, that's the proper interpretation. Is that what you think, Milton Friedman.
[01:41]
B
Relax. Are you Protestant?
[01:44]
A
Don't tell me to relax. Do you know any evangelicals at all besides the one you're talking to right now?
[01:51]
B
That's irrelevant. I'm asking, are you Protestant, yes or no?
[01:54]
A
It's a simple yes or no. I'll answer. You answer and then I'll answer. Do you know any other evangelicals? Yes or no?
[02:00]
B
Absolutely.
[02:01]
A
So now, okay, I'll answer yours. But then I want to know how many of them say I just pick up the Bible and read it. And whatever I think first, that's what's correct. Okay, now what's your question?
[02:10]
B
Absolutely, Martin, Theology was, You know what solos your Torah is? Are you faith alone?
[02:23]
A
Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait. What was the question? You said you had a yes or no question for me.
[02:28]
B
I said I'm asking you. What is this?
[02:31]
C
You asked. He asked if you were Protestant.
[02:33]
A
Yes, I'm a Protestant. Yes.
[02:34]
B
Thank you, bro. Appreciate that.
[02:37]
A
Yes. I'm a Protestant evangelical.
[02:39]
B
Okay, so what does that mean? Does that mean that you're sola scriptura all day long?
[02:45]
A
Yes. Give me God's word over man's word any day of the week. Yes. Now, if you like this episode and you want to take your learning further, you need to know about what we're doing to help revolutionize the way that Christian men interact with their faith. We want to help you get more equipped to lead your family to answer any objection to share and defend your faith. And I'll tell you more about what we're doing to help you do exactly that.
[03:08]
B
You.
[03:09]
A
After the episode. Stay tuned.
[03:11]
B
How do you know that you're interpreting God's words accurately?
[03:15]
A
Because Scripture is clear. That's number one. Two, I have the Holy Spirit. Stop interrupting. You might actually learn something about your opponent. Number one, Scripture is perspicuitous. There is such a thing as the perspicuity of Scripture. Number two, I have the Holy Spirit who grounds and guides me in all truth. Number three, I am part of the community of. Of faith and my brethren. Are you still talking? Are you still talking over your opponent?
[03:42]
B
I'm laughing.
[03:43]
A
What in the world? What kind of a debate do you think this is? You come on here and start yelling and accusing, misrepresenting, and then laughing when someone is talking. Is that how the Eastern North. Is this how the Eastern Orthodox disciples its converts? A good argument for Eastern Orthodoxy. I'm not saying anything, sir. Where's your sanctification? I thought the osis should have already begun for you.
[04:10]
B
I'm not.
[04:10]
A
Where's your sanctification?
[04:12]
B
I'm not even Eastern Orthodox, though. I'm more in Orthodox.
[04:16]
A
That's even worse.
[04:17]
B
How do you know that's worse?
[04:19]
A
Well, because. Look at you. Look at the way you're acting.
[04:22]
B
You can't even see me. What do you mean?
[04:23]
A
Look, observe your own actions. Observe your actions.
[04:31]
B
What's wrong with my actions?
[04:33]
A
You assume that I just articulated that
[04:36]
B
I'm not Greek or Russian Orthodox.
[04:38]
A
Congratulations. Okay, let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. Does scripture have perspicuity, whatever that means?
[04:50]
B
What does that mean?
[04:54]
A
I want to say this very respectfully, but you came on a debate and you wanted to debate sola scriptura. You don't know the word perspicuity, and that's fine. I'm happy to. Wait a minute. I'm not. I'm not going to theology shame you here. I'm not going to theology shame You. But I want to say this very respectfully. Learn what words mean before you try to. To come on here and debate, because I've already mentioned the word perspicuity. Rather than laugh at your opponent, you're revealing your ignorance by. By laughing rather than listening and asking questions. So I want you to try to understand your opponent. You're still talking over me. This is really unbelievable. This is unconscionable. You're not representing your Orthodox church very well. And I mean that with all sincerity and respect.
[05:36]
B
I just want to know when I could talk.
[05:39]
A
Did you ask me a question about perspicuity?
[05:42]
B
Yeah. Tell me what it means, man. Stop blabbing on. Go ahead. What does it mean?
[05:47]
A
I'm blabbing because you don't stop talking. Listen to me. Perspicuity. This is. Perspicuity means clarity. Do you believe that the Bible is sufficiently clear in all of its essential doctrines? Yes or no?
[06:00]
B
I believe that the Bible was canonized by the Church. What church was it canonized by?
[06:05]
A
Unbelievable. Avoidance of the question. Let me ask you this. I'm going to rephrase the question. Go ahead, repeat the question. And maybe you can understand this. You should be able to. Is all scripture profitable and breathed out by God? Is it profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training and righteousness so that the man of God may be perfect, fully equipped for every good work? Yes or no?
[06:27]
B
Do I believe that the word of God is true? Absolutely. But the word of God has to be interpreted. Do you know that you have the right interpretation of the word of God based off solar scriptura? Yes or no?
[06:41]
A
Milton. You just answered a question I didn't ask. I'm not going to answer your question until you answer mine.
[06:47]
B
God, I just said that the Bible is true.
[06:50]
A
That's not what I am.
[06:52]
B
So what are you asking?
[06:53]
A
Listen carefully. This is why it's important to listen in a debate. I'm doing my best to listen to you, but you keep talking over me and I can't. Do you believe that all Scripture is breathed out by God and is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training and righteousness so that the man of God may be complete, lacking nothing, equipped fully for every good work?
[07:17]
B
Sure. But I also agree that there's a correct interpretation. It's not plural. There isn't multitudes of interpretation. There's only one true interpretation of those Scriptures.
[07:31]
A
Okay, what is it?
[07:32]
B
No, stop. I let you talk. Bro. How do you know that you have the right universal interpretation of the Scriptures. Scriptures.
[07:40]
A
Give me an example of a passage.
[07:42]
B
What do you mean give you an example of a passion?
[07:44]
A
I mean give me an example of a passage.
[07:48]
B
Okay. John 1.
[07:51]
A
John 1, verse. What?
[07:53]
B
John 1, verse 1.
[07:56]
A
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. I understand that to mean that in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[08:04]
B
Okay, great. How do you know you have the correct interpretation of that verse?
[08:08]
A
Because that's what it says.
[08:10]
B
Because that's what it says. So just interprets itself.
[08:13]
A
You.
[08:14]
B
This is what Muslims and atheists do. They just go inside the Scriptures and
[08:19]
A
just choose their own adventure, then go debate them.
[08:23]
B
I'm debating you because you just did the same thing.
[08:26]
A
Then don't bring them up, because that's not what I did. Listen carefully. The meaning of the text is what it says. The meaning of the text is what it says. Now, Milton, I asked you for an example. You could have chosen an obscure passage, but you didn't. You chose one of the best beloved passages in all of Scripture. The one that could not be more clear. Jesus is the Word. He's the second person of the Trinity. How do I know that? Because the Gospel of John tells me Jesus was there in the beginning. How do I know? Because you have to stop interrupting. Listen carefully, man. Now, I'm trying to be respectful to you, but you got to listen.
[09:05]
B
Talking, bro.
[09:06]
A
Jesus is the Word. That's what John 1:1:12 tells me. Now, do you disagree with my interpretation?
[09:13]
B
I don't know how you come up with the fact that you have the right interpretation. That's what I'm trying to ask you. How do you. You just may have the right interpretation. That's what I'm asking is how do you know that you have the right interpretation without the 2000 years of tradition?
[09:33]
A
Okay, I wanna. I wanna ask you a question. I've answered that question more than once.
[09:38]
B
Right.
[09:39]
A
I know that you were. You might have been laughing when I answered it, but I answered it more than once. So I tried to give you a better opportunity to listen. I know because I have the Holy Spirit. Because Scripture is clear and because I live.
[09:50]
B
Dude. Bro.
[09:50]
A
Because.
[09:51]
B
Because you just grant yourself the Holy Spirit.
[09:54]
A
No God does that. I want you to listen as Jesus promised. By the way,
[09:59]
B
devil, how do you know that? Wow.
[10:02]
A
If I was ever considering becoming Oriental Orthodox based on this conversation alone, I would instantly reject that proposition based solely on this. If you represent your church, I want to say this very respectfully. You are an incredibly disrespectful representative. Now listen very carefully,
[10:20]
B
representative of Protestantism. You just grab the Bible and say, well, I just read the Bible. What? Well, what kind of representation? And that one made me call you a question.
[10:31]
A
I'm going to ask you a question. Where can I find the authoritative canon of your church's tradition?
[10:36]
B
Wait, what?
[10:39]
A
Where can I find the authoritative canon of your church's tradition?
[10:43]
B
Through the church fathers.
[10:45]
A
Where is it written?
[10:46]
B
What do you mean, where is it written?
[10:48]
A
Give me the list. Give me the official canonized list of all your church's tradition in a list. Where is it? Where's the table of contents for your tradition?
[10:56]
B
You would have to go through my church, through the Coptic Church, through the Ethiopian Church, through all the Oriental Orthodox Churches.
[11:05]
A
How do you know which Church fathers are authoritative for you? That's the first question. The second question is how do you know you're interpreting the Church fathers correctly?
[11:16]
B
The 2000 years of tradition unbroken, does
[11:21]
A
that have to be interpreted?
[11:23]
B
Absolutely.
[11:24]
A
How do you know that you have the right interpretation of the Church fathers, Milton?
[11:29]
B
Because my church fathers follow the 2000 years of tradition unbroken through the land.
[11:36]
A
Do you read them?
[11:38]
B
What do you mean, do I read them?
[11:39]
A
Can they be misinterpreted?
[11:41]
B
Absolutely. They could be mis.
[11:43]
A
How do you know that you have the right interpretation of the Church Fathers?
[11:47]
B
My interpretation follows the 2000 years of tradition.
[11:51]
A
How do you know what it says?
[11:52]
B
What do you mean, how do I know what it said? So why even trust the Bible if that's the case? Who canonized the Bible? What came first?
[11:59]
A
How do you know what your church tradition says?
[12:03]
B
The Church of the Bible?
[12:04]
A
How do you know what it means? Milton?
[12:06]
B
Why would he. Why would I even trust the Bible then if I can't trust the Church?
[12:09]
A
There it is.
[12:10]
B
Why would I trust the Bible?
[12:12]
A
There it is. Thank you. Why would you even trust the Bible? This, ladies and gentlemen, is the end result of Oriental Orthodox. Why would I even. I can't trust this. This institution of men. Why would I even trust the Bible?
[12:28]
B
Okay.
[12:30]
A
Does your church's tradition need to be interpreted, yes or no?
[12:34]
B
Absolutely.
[12:35]
A
Can you misinterpret it?
[12:37]
B
Absolutely.
[12:38]
A
How do you know you have the proper interpretation?
[12:41]
B
I'm not going off of my interpretation. I'm going off the interpretation of 2000 year tradition. It's like asking me if I was to make a cake. That was.
[12:50]
A
Does that tradition need to be interpreted?
[12:53]
B
Milton, relax. Can I talk, Mr. Mustach? Can I talk?
[12:56]
A
Interpret.
[12:57]
B
Can I talk, man? Let me elaborate.
[13:01]
A
Mustache to you, Milton.
[13:03]
B
I don't know. You got a goofy Luigi mustache. I'm trying to.
[13:07]
A
Professor Mustache. I demand to be called professor mustache. Milton.
[13:11]
B
Okay, Mrs. Mustache Mustache.
[13:17]
A
Dress me as Professor Mustache.
[13:20]
B
Just like you. Eyes. Solo Master
[13:27]
A
Mustache.
[13:29]
B
Okay. Hey, Solo Mustache. Toro. I'm trying to tell you. Can I talk or no? Can you shut up for a second?
[13:37]
A
Milton, how do you know that your church is inter. How do you know that you are interpreting your church's 2,000 years of tradition correctly?
[13:45]
B
Years is unbroken, bro. How do you know. Shut. Shut up.
[13:49]
A
How do you know, Milton. How do you know you're interpreting your church's tradition correctly? How do you know. Milton.
[13:59]
B
Okay, great. How do you know if you're. If. If you're baking a cake that's from family tradition. How do you know that that cake is being passed down?
[14:09]
A
Milton. How do you know that your Tradition. Church tradition more clear than God's word. Milton.
[14:18]
B
Okay. And who canonized God's Word?
[14:20]
A
Answer the question.
[14:22]
B
And who canonized God's Word?
[14:24]
A
Answer the question. Answer. Answer my question and I'll answer yours one at a time. That's how this works. First Milton Friedman goes, then Professor Mustache goes. And I expect to be addressed as such. How do you know that your interpretation of your church history is correct?
[14:40]
B
How do you know through the tradition that has unbroken. I don't understand why you don't get this.
[14:49]
A
Because, Milton, you're applying a false standard to God's Word and you're not applying it to your own tradition. Everyone can see this.
[14:57]
B
Prove that it's false.
[14:59]
A
What?
[15:01]
B
Prove that it's false. Mrs. Mustache, listen to me.
[15:04]
A
That's. Doctor. I know it's difficult. Professor Mustache. Listen. Milton, I want you to listen very carefully. I've been. I've been so respectful to you. I've been like. I've been like a nursing mother to you, Milton. I've been like a gentle exhorting father to you. I am here to teach you, Milton. I am here to coddle you towards the truth. I'm here to. To gently lead you by the hand into the truth. And I want you to see what I'm doing and appreciate it. Because I don't do this with everybody. I don't do this. I don't take such a firm hand with everybody but you, Milton. You're special, and I can tell that you need it. And I can tell that you. I can tell that you're a man who appreciates. So I'm going to tell you. I'm going to teach you something, but I know it's. Difficult to stop talking. So I want you to try really hard, all right? I want you to try to exercise the fruit of the Spirit, and we'll see if you have the Holy Spirit. And you're going to try to exercise some fruit of the Spirit now and be a little self control.
[15:57]
B
I'm supposed to grab myself here's.
[16:00]
A
Nope. You're still going. Should I mute you? Would that help your self control? I try not to mute people. Should I do it?
[16:06]
B
I don't care.
[16:08]
A
All right? Try to control yourself. You're accusing me going by the Bible. And what you say is, how do you know that the Bible's. That your interpretation of the Bible is correct? I'm telling you that God is able to speak in a clear way. And I have the church and I have the Holy Spirit. Now, you're saying that you interpret the Bible by 2000 years of tradition, which is words written by men who are not infallible, who are not carried along by the Holy Spirit. But you say that you don't need another authority besides church tradition. But you say that I do. When it comes to God's Word, you are putting your church tradition on a higher pedestal than God's Word. You say you don't need help interpreting your church's tradition, but I need your help in order to interpret scripture. You did end up talking over me. I know you tried to hold it together. I know it's difficult. But again, I'm leading you by the hand. Do you at least try? Do you at least understand what I'm saying? Steel man. What I'm saying so I know that you at least have ears to hear.
[17:14]
B
Bro. All you're doing is just blabbing on like a female.
[17:22]
A
Milton, you've outdone yourself. I can't believe what I'm hearing. Milton, you have shown yourself to be irreparably. You are. You are invincibly ornery. I've never experienced this. I've never experienced this. Milton, Professor Mustache is gonna have to bid you adieu. I wish you all the best in life. I've enjoyed our conversation. Until next time. Milton. I just. I. I want you to know I've really thoroughly enjoyed our conversation.
[17:54]
B
Bro.
[17:54]
A
I do. I do. Adieu, Milton. May God bless you on your way and grant you everything that you ever hoped for in your life. Unless it's bad for you, in which case, may he not. Oh, I can't hear you. Oh, you're muted.
[18:11]
B
Ha. The.
[18:12]
C
The Jola scriptura fallacy.
[18:15]
A
So good. It's so Good.
[18:17]
C
To be fair, just so Milan knows it, we were two minutes over time anyway.
[18:21]
A
Yeah, no, that, that, honestly, that was really enjoyable. I really, like, I very rarely get to let loose like that because I try to be really, you know, calm. Once someone starts telling me to shut up on my own stream, like, no, you don't come in here and do that. That's not how this works. So on the one hand, I could boot him or we could have a little bit of fun. And I chose, that was fun.
[18:41]
C
And someone even said, dang, I didn't know Calvinist could be funny.
[18:47]
A
It's rare. It's only Calvinist Baptists. Only, only. It's only Calvinist Baptists. Presbyterians are a little too serious. No, I'm sure. No, Presbyterians can be funny too. Yeah, yeah, that was a lot of fun. But look, look, I'm going to give you the, the 32nd synopsis of what just happened. Someone accused Joel said a case of not being able to interpret the Bible even though the Bible promises that it's able to be to, to equip us for every good work, including the good work of interpreting Scripture, by the way. But then he goes, I know what the Bible says because I've got 2,000 years of unbroken tradition. To which of course my natural question is, well, does that supposedly unbroken tradition need to be interpreted? He said, yes. Can it be misinterpreted? Yes. Well, how do you know that you have the proper interpretation of that 2000 years of tradition? And he goes, because. Because that, because it's the tradition. Because we've got the tradition. We. That's how it's always been interpreted. Wait, wait a minute. He just, he couldn't see it for some reason. He couldn't see that the same standard he was trying to apply to the Bible turns back around and applies to his tradition. The difference being the Bible promises by God that it is sufficient for every good work and tradition comes with no such promise. So he couldn't see it. I know that. I know that the audience think squad could see it, but you know, hopefully someday Milton will turn around. Until then though, this is going to go down as one of the most fun debates. I never kick anybody out. I never try to. His time was up. Okay, but I just. We had to do it. We had to do it. It was fun.
[20:27]
C
All right, so we have our last guest, but before we bring up Truth Teller, who's our last guest for the night, we have Taylor with some super chats here. Taylor, thank you for the two five dollar super chats. And he says, Taylor here, if the Tri Omni God exists, does it follow that the past could not have happened any other way so that the greatest good happens?
[20:52]
A
It's a great question.
[20:53]
C
Wait, oh, just so you have it all, if so, would it follow that if I die an atheist, that is the greatest good that could have occurred?
[21:02]
A
Man, I love this question and I want to answer it with great fear and trepidation. Lord, please give me wisdom here. Let me say that from my limited human perspective, I do not want you to die an atheist. Please do not die an atheist. I mean, I'm literally going to implore you, do not die an atheist. Don't go, don't step into eternity without bending the knee to the Lord Jesus Christ. Please do not do that. It's not worth it, holding on to whatever autonomy you feel like you have. Or, I mean, man, we. I shared a lot of truth with you today. That means you're going to be accountable for that truth before Almighty God. Please do not die as an atheist. Now, that being said, the Tri Omni God does exist. The Triune God of scripture does exist. He is all wise and his ways are not our ways. His thoughts are not our thoughts. Whatever ends up happening is the best possible scenario according to God and according to what is objectively true, which is another way of saying the same thing. Now, could God have made things differently? That's a great question, and I think only God knows the answer to that because God will always do what is best. But God is only constrained internally. And sometimes people want to say, well, if God can only do what is best, then God is like constrained. And God is no different than the fates of ancient Greeks, Greece or something like that. But, but it's important to remember God's constraints, if we can call them that, are all internal. This is why God cannot deny himself, because it's against his own character. No one's outside of God constricting him or constraining him. In the end, whatever ends up happening will be because of God's foresight, His decree. Could God have decreed, take something very small? Could God have decreed that I have blonde hair instead of brown? I want to say yes, but I don't know in, in this sense, if God decided to, of course, yeah, God could do that. But in God's wisdom, he chose that I had brown hair. And so I don't know whatever the entailments would be of me not having. Maybe my wife wouldn't have been attracted to me. And I know it seems hard to believe like that she wouldn't be attracted to me. I mean, it's almost outside the realm of possibility. And in case she watches this later, I hope she does. But the fact of the matter is God has a perfect plan that involves me having brown hair, that involves you dying in whatever state you will have died in. And I'm not one to question God's wisdom. And the fact is, I just don't know. I don't know how much God could have changed without changing something essential to his plan. So I'm gonna have to plead ignorance on that. I'm sorry, I. I don't know. But I will also plead with you. Repent. Turn to the Lord Jesus Christ. Be saved. He will forgive you all of your sins. Wouldn't it be great to have that weight of sin lifted off of you? And wouldn't that be amazing to be saved and forgiven? Wouldn't it be absolutely amazing to be able to go to church and rejoice in song in using your gifts for the people of God that Jesus Christ has set you free from everything that. That you gain no benefit from in. In eternal sense. Be free. Turn to the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved. You're a Christian man. You want to build a legacy, answer the world's questions and lay down a solid foundation for your family in God's word. But everywhere you look, you see decline, disorder, chaos. Your neighbors don't know the Lord. And too many churches are filled with apathy. In today's world, we need men who understand theology, know scripture, and who are committed to leading their families in the biblical worldview. That is why we're building the Hammer and Anvil Society, the ultimate discipleship community for Christian men. With weekly cohort calls, a full library of resources and courses, weekly challenges and live teaching, you're going to sharpen your mind and your character. Our full library of courses is going to help you deepen your knowledge in the Christian worldview. Family, discipleship and apologetics, the defense of your faith. But it's not just about building your knowledge base. As important as that is, it's also about brotherhood. That's why you'll also have access to an online community and live cohort calls live teaching and real accountability so you can have fellowship with like minded brothers who are on the same journey as you. Member Kevin says the Hammer and Anvil Society has been the most beneficial thing for my family's spiritual growth in years. This unique brotherhood has made me more bold in my witness and more sensitive to God's leading. AJ says Today I stand stronger and more rooted in my faith. The Hammer and Anvil Society has been instrumental in transforming me into the man of God I am striving to be. Get unlimited access as a member or try out a single course in the subject of your choice. Learn more now. Go to thethink.instuart/society. Get equipped. Build your legacy in community. Join today.

Summary5 min read

Worldview Legacy | The Think Institute

Episode #214: Protestant vs. Oriental Orthodox Debate: He Tried to Destroy Sola Scriptura—Then Refuted Himself

Host: Joel Settecase (The Think Institute)
Air date: June 22, 2026

Brief Overview

In this episode, Joel Settecase engages in a lively and at times contentious debate with an Oriental Orthodox guest (referred to as "Milton") about Sola Scriptura, the Protestant insistence on the sufficiency and clarity of Scripture versus the Orthodox appeal to an unbroken tradition for interpreting the Bible. The exchange is fast-paced, honest, and occasionally humorous, with both participants challenging each other's foundational assumptions about authority, interpretation, and tradition in Christianity.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening Challenges: Defending Worldviews

Milton (00:03): As an Orthodox Christian, Milton begins by turning the tables on Joel, questioning how Joel validates his interpretation of Scripture.
Joel (00:20): Presses Milton for his best argument for Orthodox Christianity before answering Milton’s question.

2. Authority of Interpretation

Orthodox Perspective:
- Milton (00:34, 03:15): Claims his interpretation is grounded in 2,000 years of tradition.
- Emphasizes the church’s role in canonizing and interpreting scripture.
Protestant Perspective:
- Joel (00:42, 03:15): Insists he bases interpretation on the perspicuity (clarity) of Scripture, the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and community within the faith.
- Asserts that Scripture is clear and sufficient for instruction (03:15, 06:00).

3. The Question of Misinterpretation

Milton argues that scripture must be interpreted, and misinterpretation is possible, raising doubts about how anyone can know theirs is correct (00:51, 03:11).
Joel counters that misinterpretation is possible on both sides, including church tradition, and presses Milton to apply the same logic to his own appeals to tradition (11:04, 12:30).

4. The "Perspicuity" of Scripture

Defining Terms:
- Joel explains perspicuity as “clarity”—that essential doctrines of the Bible are clear enough for believers to understand (05:46).
Orthodox Objection:
- Milton responds by questioning the sufficiency of clarity without church tradition and raises the issue of canonization by the church (06:00, 06:40).

5. Test Case: Interpreting John 1:1

Milton (07:48): Asks Joel to interpret John 1:1 ("In the beginning was the Word...").
Joel (07:55): States simply: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
Milton (08:07): Pushes, “How do you know you have the correct interpretation?”
Joel (08:07): “Because that’s what it says.”
- Milton compares this to "choose your own adventure" reading—as seen in some atheist or Islamic polemics (08:14).
- Joel pushes back, stating the text means what it says, especially in a clear verse like John 1:1 (08:26).

6. The Circle of Interpretation and Tradition

Joel (11:04, 12:30, 12:38): Questions the reliability and authority of church tradition: How does Milton know which Church Fathers are valid, and how can he be sure he’s interpreting them correctly?
Milton (11:16, 13:44): Repeats that his interpretation is validated by an "unbroken 2000 years of tradition," yet concedes that tradition needs interpreting, too.

7. The Double Standard & Recursion of Authority

Joel (14:49): Points out that Milton applies a high standard of certainty to Joel’s reading of Scripture that he does not apply to tradition itself:

"You’re applying a false standard to God’s Word and you’re not applying it to your own tradition. Everyone can see this."

8. Debate Tone, Humor, and Memorable Exchanges

The tone grows more combative, with exchanges over who gets to speak ("Let me elaborate," 13:03), and playful—Joel insists on being called "Professor Mustache" (13:11).
Milton responds with levity and some insults, leading to Joel drawing the debate to a close.
- Joel: "I’ve been like a nursing mother to you, Milton. I am here to coddle you towards the truth." (15:04)
- Milton: "Bro. All you’re doing is just blabbing on like a female." (17:14)
Joel: "Milton, you have shown yourself to be irreparably... invincibly ornery. Professor Mustache is gonna have to bid you adieu." (17:22)

9. Post-Debate Reflection

Joel summarizes for listeners, emphasizing that Milton ended up applying to tradition the same interpretive uncertainty that he accused Protestants of regarding Scripture, thus refuting his own challenge (18:40).

"He couldn’t see that the same standard he was trying to apply to the Bible turns back around and applies to his tradition…" (18:40)

Notable Quotes & Moments

On Sola Scriptura:

"Yes. Give me God’s word over man’s word any day of the week." (Joel, 02:44)
On the Holy Spirit and Interpretation:

"Because Scripture is clear. That’s number one. Two, I have the Holy Spirit. Stop interrupting..." (Joel, 03:15)
Defining Perspicuity:

"Perspicuity means clarity. Do you believe that the Bible is sufficiently clear in all of its essential doctrines? Yes or no?" (Joel, 05:46)
Canonical Challenge:

"Where is it written? Give me the list. Give me the official canonized list of all your church’s tradition in a list. Where is it? Where’s the table of contents for your tradition?" (Joel, 10:47)
The Core Critique:

"You’re applying a false standard to God’s Word and you’re not applying it to your own tradition. Everyone can see this." (Joel, 14:49)

Important Timestamps

00:00–01:00: Opening—worldview challenge and debate over authority begins
03:11–04:50: Sola Scriptura, perspicuity, and the role of the Holy Spirit
05:46: Definition and challenge about the clarity of Scripture (perspicuity)
07:48–09:13: John 1:1 interpretation test case
11:04–12:38: Recursion of interpretation—applying same scrutiny to tradition
13:11–14:40: "Professor Mustache" sequence and escalating exchange
15:04–17:22: Debate concludes with humor and exasperation
18:40: Joel’s post-debate analysis—core lesson summarized

Conclusion & Key Takeaway

The debate spotlights a foundational divide between Protestant and Orthodox approaches to Christian authority and revelation: Is Scripture sufficient and clear for the believer, or is it dependent on ecclesial tradition to be properly understood? Joel Settecase argues persuasively that both Scripture and tradition require interpretation, and thus critics of Sola Scriptura inadvertently expose similar challenges within their own frameworks. The episode is both a spirited theological exchange and a masterclass in presuppositional apologetics, punctuated by humor and candid engagement.

Bonus: Deep Listener Question Segment

20:52 - Joel answers a listener’s philosophical question about God’s sovereignty and the problem of evil with a pastoral plea:

"Please do not die an atheist. Don’t step into eternity without bending the knee to the Lord Jesus Christ."

Affirms God's ultimate wisdom and sovereignty, pleads for personal repentance and faith.

Tone and Style

The episode is rigorous yet informal, with moments of tension, wit, and robust theological challenge. Both participants are direct, sometimes confrontational, but the primary tone is one of committed defense of deeply held beliefs—tempered by the host’s characteristic humor and a final pastoral appeal.

For more resources and deep-dive courses in theology and apologetics, visit: thethink.institute/society

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Transcript183 lines

[00:00]
A
Milton Friedman.
[00:02]
B
Yeah.
[00:02]
A
What's your worldview?
[00:04]
B
Yeah, I'm an Orthodox Christian. What's up?
[00:07]
A
Oh, an Orthodox Christian.
[00:08]
B
Okay.
[00:08]
A
What's your best argument for orthodox Christianity?
[00:12]
B
No, I want to ask you because you pulled out the Bible and you were just like, oh, I read the Bible. What is determining the validation of your interpretation of the Bible?
[00:21]
A
Hold on. What's your best argument for. You don't have a good argument for orthodox Christianity?
[00:27]
B
No, I. Wait, hold on. I called. I just asked you a question. Can you not answer the question?
[00:31]
A
That's what I'm saying to you.
[00:35]
B
Well, my interpretation is based off of 2,000 years of tradition. What's your interpretation based on? You just grab the Bible and read it.
[00:43]
A
Scripture.
[00:44]
B
Okay, great. Can Scripture be interpreted?
[00:48]
A
I certainly hope so. Yeah. It's perspicuous.
[00:51]
B
It can be interpreted. Can it be misinterpreted?
[00:54]
A
Yeah, I think that you guys do it.
[00:56]
B
And what's validating that? How do you know that we're misinterpreted?
[01:00]
A
Analogia fide. And the Holy Spirit.
[01:04]
B
Wait, how do you know it's not the Holy Spirit?
[01:08]
A
I'm sorry, I must not have heard you repeat the question.
[01:11]
B
My question was, when you grabbed the Bible and you read it, how do you know that that's the accurate interpretation?
[01:19]
A
Well, I don't just grab it and read it and say, my interpretation must be right because I picked up the Bible for five seconds. That's evangelical. Study the Scriptures. We don't just grab it and we don't just grab it and go, whatever. I think right away, that's the proper interpretation. Is that what you think, Milton Friedman.
[01:41]
B
Relax. Are you Protestant?
[01:44]
A
Don't tell me to relax. Do you know any evangelicals at all besides the one you're talking to right now?
[01:51]
B
That's irrelevant. I'm asking, are you Protestant, yes or no?
[01:54]
A
It's a simple yes or no. I'll answer. You answer and then I'll answer. Do you know any other evangelicals? Yes or no?
[02:00]
B
Absolutely.
[02:01]
A
So now, okay, I'll answer yours. But then I want to know how many of them say I just pick up the Bible and read it. And whatever I think first, that's what's correct. Okay, now what's your question?
[02:10]
B
Absolutely, Martin, Theology was, You know what solos your Torah is? Are you faith alone?
[02:23]
A
Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait. What was the question? You said you had a yes or no question for me.
[02:28]
B
I said I'm asking you. What is this?
[02:31]
C
You asked. He asked if you were Protestant.
[02:33]
A
Yes, I'm a Protestant. Yes.
[02:34]
B
Thank you, bro. Appreciate that.
[02:37]
A
Yes. I'm a Protestant evangelical.
[02:39]
B
Okay, so what does that mean? Does that mean that you're sola scriptura all day long?
[02:45]
A
Yes. Give me God's word over man's word any day of the week. Yes. Now, if you like this episode and you want to take your learning further, you need to know about what we're doing to help revolutionize the way that Christian men interact with their faith. We want to help you get more equipped to lead your family to answer any objection to share and defend your faith. And I'll tell you more about what we're doing to help you do exactly that.
[03:08]
B
You.
[03:09]
A
After the episode. Stay tuned.
[03:11]
B
How do you know that you're interpreting God's words accurately?
[03:15]
A
Because Scripture is clear. That's number one. Two, I have the Holy Spirit. Stop interrupting. You might actually learn something about your opponent. Number one, Scripture is perspicuitous. There is such a thing as the perspicuity of Scripture. Number two, I have the Holy Spirit who grounds and guides me in all truth. Number three, I am part of the community of. Of faith and my brethren. Are you still talking? Are you still talking over your opponent?
[03:42]
B
I'm laughing.
[03:43]
A
What in the world? What kind of a debate do you think this is? You come on here and start yelling and accusing, misrepresenting, and then laughing when someone is talking. Is that how the Eastern North. Is this how the Eastern Orthodox disciples its converts? A good argument for Eastern Orthodoxy. I'm not saying anything, sir. Where's your sanctification? I thought the osis should have already begun for you.
[04:10]
B
I'm not.
[04:10]
A
Where's your sanctification?
[04:12]
B
I'm not even Eastern Orthodox, though. I'm more in Orthodox.
[04:16]
A
That's even worse.
[04:17]
B
How do you know that's worse?
[04:19]
A
Well, because. Look at you. Look at the way you're acting.
[04:22]
B
You can't even see me. What do you mean?
[04:23]
A
Look, observe your own actions. Observe your actions.
[04:31]
B
What's wrong with my actions?
[04:33]
A
You assume that I just articulated that
[04:36]
B
I'm not Greek or Russian Orthodox.
[04:38]
A
Congratulations. Okay, let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. Does scripture have perspicuity, whatever that means?
[04:50]
B
What does that mean?
[04:54]
A
I want to say this very respectfully, but you came on a debate and you wanted to debate sola scriptura. You don't know the word perspicuity, and that's fine. I'm happy to. Wait a minute. I'm not. I'm not going to theology shame you here. I'm not going to theology shame You. But I want to say this very respectfully. Learn what words mean before you try to. To come on here and debate, because I've already mentioned the word perspicuity. Rather than laugh at your opponent, you're revealing your ignorance by. By laughing rather than listening and asking questions. So I want you to try to understand your opponent. You're still talking over me. This is really unbelievable. This is unconscionable. You're not representing your Orthodox church very well. And I mean that with all sincerity and respect.
[05:36]
B
I just want to know when I could talk.
[05:39]
A
Did you ask me a question about perspicuity?
[05:42]
B
Yeah. Tell me what it means, man. Stop blabbing on. Go ahead. What does it mean?
[05:47]
A
I'm blabbing because you don't stop talking. Listen to me. Perspicuity. This is. Perspicuity means clarity. Do you believe that the Bible is sufficiently clear in all of its essential doctrines? Yes or no?
[06:00]
B
I believe that the Bible was canonized by the Church. What church was it canonized by?
[06:05]
A
Unbelievable. Avoidance of the question. Let me ask you this. I'm going to rephrase the question. Go ahead, repeat the question. And maybe you can understand this. You should be able to. Is all scripture profitable and breathed out by God? Is it profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training and righteousness so that the man of God may be perfect, fully equipped for every good work? Yes or no?
[06:27]
B
Do I believe that the word of God is true? Absolutely. But the word of God has to be interpreted. Do you know that you have the right interpretation of the word of God based off solar scriptura? Yes or no?
[06:41]
A
Milton. You just answered a question I didn't ask. I'm not going to answer your question until you answer mine.
[06:47]
B
God, I just said that the Bible is true.
[06:50]
A
That's not what I am.
[06:52]
B
So what are you asking?
[06:53]
A
Listen carefully. This is why it's important to listen in a debate. I'm doing my best to listen to you, but you keep talking over me and I can't. Do you believe that all Scripture is breathed out by God and is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training and righteousness so that the man of God may be complete, lacking nothing, equipped fully for every good work?
[07:17]
B
Sure. But I also agree that there's a correct interpretation. It's not plural. There isn't multitudes of interpretation. There's only one true interpretation of those Scriptures.
[07:31]
A
Okay, what is it?
[07:32]
B
No, stop. I let you talk. Bro. How do you know that you have the right universal interpretation of the Scriptures. Scriptures.
[07:40]
A
Give me an example of a passage.
[07:42]
B
What do you mean give you an example of a passion?
[07:44]
A
I mean give me an example of a passage.
[07:48]
B
Okay. John 1.
[07:51]
A
John 1, verse. What?
[07:53]
B
John 1, verse 1.
[07:56]
A
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. I understand that to mean that in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[08:04]
B
Okay, great. How do you know you have the correct interpretation of that verse?
[08:08]
A
Because that's what it says.
[08:10]
B
Because that's what it says. So just interprets itself.
[08:13]
A
You.
[08:14]
B
This is what Muslims and atheists do. They just go inside the Scriptures and
[08:19]
A
just choose their own adventure, then go debate them.
[08:23]
B
I'm debating you because you just did the same thing.
[08:26]
A
Then don't bring them up, because that's not what I did. Listen carefully. The meaning of the text is what it says. The meaning of the text is what it says. Now, Milton, I asked you for an example. You could have chosen an obscure passage, but you didn't. You chose one of the best beloved passages in all of Scripture. The one that could not be more clear. Jesus is the Word. He's the second person of the Trinity. How do I know that? Because the Gospel of John tells me Jesus was there in the beginning. How do I know? Because you have to stop interrupting. Listen carefully, man. Now, I'm trying to be respectful to you, but you got to listen.
[09:05]
B
Talking, bro.
[09:06]
A
Jesus is the Word. That's what John 1:1:12 tells me. Now, do you disagree with my interpretation?
[09:13]
B
I don't know how you come up with the fact that you have the right interpretation. That's what I'm trying to ask you. How do you. You just may have the right interpretation. That's what I'm asking is how do you know that you have the right interpretation without the 2000 years of tradition?
[09:33]
A
Okay, I wanna. I wanna ask you a question. I've answered that question more than once.
[09:38]
B
Right.
[09:39]
A
I know that you were. You might have been laughing when I answered it, but I answered it more than once. So I tried to give you a better opportunity to listen. I know because I have the Holy Spirit. Because Scripture is clear and because I live.
[09:50]
B
Dude. Bro.
[09:50]
A
Because.
[09:51]
B
Because you just grant yourself the Holy Spirit.
[09:54]
A
No God does that. I want you to listen as Jesus promised. By the way,
[09:59]
B
devil, how do you know that? Wow.
[10:02]
A
If I was ever considering becoming Oriental Orthodox based on this conversation alone, I would instantly reject that proposition based solely on this. If you represent your church, I want to say this very respectfully. You are an incredibly disrespectful representative. Now listen very carefully,
[10:20]
B
representative of Protestantism. You just grab the Bible and say, well, I just read the Bible. What? Well, what kind of representation? And that one made me call you a question.
[10:31]
A
I'm going to ask you a question. Where can I find the authoritative canon of your church's tradition?
[10:36]
B
Wait, what?
[10:39]
A
Where can I find the authoritative canon of your church's tradition?
[10:43]
B
Through the church fathers.
[10:45]
A
Where is it written?
[10:46]
B
What do you mean, where is it written?
[10:48]
A
Give me the list. Give me the official canonized list of all your church's tradition in a list. Where is it? Where's the table of contents for your tradition?
[10:56]
B
You would have to go through my church, through the Coptic Church, through the Ethiopian Church, through all the Oriental Orthodox Churches.
[11:05]
A
How do you know which Church fathers are authoritative for you? That's the first question. The second question is how do you know you're interpreting the Church fathers correctly?
[11:16]
B
The 2000 years of tradition unbroken, does
[11:21]
A
that have to be interpreted?
[11:23]
B
Absolutely.
[11:24]
A
How do you know that you have the right interpretation of the Church fathers, Milton?
[11:29]
B
Because my church fathers follow the 2000 years of tradition unbroken through the land.
[11:36]
A
Do you read them?
[11:38]
B
What do you mean, do I read them?
[11:39]
A
Can they be misinterpreted?
[11:41]
B
Absolutely. They could be mis.
[11:43]
A
How do you know that you have the right interpretation of the Church Fathers?
[11:47]
B
My interpretation follows the 2000 years of tradition.
[11:51]
A
How do you know what it says?
[11:52]
B
What do you mean, how do I know what it said? So why even trust the Bible if that's the case? Who canonized the Bible? What came first?
[11:59]
A
How do you know what your church tradition says?
[12:03]
B
The Church of the Bible?
[12:04]
A
How do you know what it means? Milton?
[12:06]
B
Why would he. Why would I even trust the Bible then if I can't trust the Church?
[12:09]
A
There it is.
[12:10]
B
Why would I trust the Bible?
[12:12]
A
There it is. Thank you. Why would you even trust the Bible? This, ladies and gentlemen, is the end result of Oriental Orthodox. Why would I even. I can't trust this. This institution of men. Why would I even trust the Bible?
[12:28]
B
Okay.
[12:30]
A
Does your church's tradition need to be interpreted, yes or no?
[12:34]
B
Absolutely.
[12:35]
A
Can you misinterpret it?
[12:37]
B
Absolutely.
[12:38]
A
How do you know you have the proper interpretation?
[12:41]
B
I'm not going off of my interpretation. I'm going off the interpretation of 2000 year tradition. It's like asking me if I was to make a cake. That was.
[12:50]
A
Does that tradition need to be interpreted?
[12:53]
B
Milton, relax. Can I talk, Mr. Mustach? Can I talk?
[12:56]
A
Interpret.
[12:57]
B
Can I talk, man? Let me elaborate.
[13:01]
A
Mustache to you, Milton.
[13:03]
B
I don't know. You got a goofy Luigi mustache. I'm trying to.
[13:07]
A
Professor Mustache. I demand to be called professor mustache. Milton.
[13:11]
B
Okay, Mrs. Mustache Mustache.
[13:17]
A
Dress me as Professor Mustache.
[13:20]
B
Just like you. Eyes. Solo Master
[13:27]
A
Mustache.
[13:29]
B
Okay. Hey, Solo Mustache. Toro. I'm trying to tell you. Can I talk or no? Can you shut up for a second?
[13:37]
A
Milton, how do you know that your church is inter. How do you know that you are interpreting your church's 2,000 years of tradition correctly?
[13:45]
B
Years is unbroken, bro. How do you know. Shut. Shut up.
[13:49]
A
How do you know, Milton. How do you know you're interpreting your church's tradition correctly? How do you know. Milton.
[13:59]
B
Okay, great. How do you know if you're. If. If you're baking a cake that's from family tradition. How do you know that that cake is being passed down?
[14:09]
A
Milton. How do you know that your Tradition. Church tradition more clear than God's word. Milton.
[14:18]
B
Okay. And who canonized God's Word?
[14:20]
A
Answer the question.
[14:22]
B
And who canonized God's Word?
[14:24]
A
Answer the question. Answer. Answer my question and I'll answer yours one at a time. That's how this works. First Milton Friedman goes, then Professor Mustache goes. And I expect to be addressed as such. How do you know that your interpretation of your church history is correct?
[14:40]
B
How do you know through the tradition that has unbroken. I don't understand why you don't get this.
[14:49]
A
Because, Milton, you're applying a false standard to God's Word and you're not applying it to your own tradition. Everyone can see this.
[14:57]
B
Prove that it's false.
[14:59]
A
What?
[15:01]
B
Prove that it's false. Mrs. Mustache, listen to me.
[15:04]
A
That's. Doctor. I know it's difficult. Professor Mustache. Listen. Milton, I want you to listen very carefully. I've been. I've been so respectful to you. I've been like. I've been like a nursing mother to you, Milton. I've been like a gentle exhorting father to you. I am here to teach you, Milton. I am here to coddle you towards the truth. I'm here to. To gently lead you by the hand into the truth. And I want you to see what I'm doing and appreciate it. Because I don't do this with everybody. I don't do this. I don't take such a firm hand with everybody but you, Milton. You're special, and I can tell that you need it. And I can tell that you. I can tell that you're a man who appreciates. So I'm going to tell you. I'm going to teach you something, but I know it's. Difficult to stop talking. So I want you to try really hard, all right? I want you to try to exercise the fruit of the Spirit, and we'll see if you have the Holy Spirit. And you're going to try to exercise some fruit of the Spirit now and be a little self control.
[15:57]
B
I'm supposed to grab myself here's.
[16:00]
A
Nope. You're still going. Should I mute you? Would that help your self control? I try not to mute people. Should I do it?
[16:06]
B
I don't care.
[16:08]
A
All right? Try to control yourself. You're accusing me going by the Bible. And what you say is, how do you know that the Bible's. That your interpretation of the Bible is correct? I'm telling you that God is able to speak in a clear way. And I have the church and I have the Holy Spirit. Now, you're saying that you interpret the Bible by 2000 years of tradition, which is words written by men who are not infallible, who are not carried along by the Holy Spirit. But you say that you don't need another authority besides church tradition. But you say that I do. When it comes to God's Word, you are putting your church tradition on a higher pedestal than God's Word. You say you don't need help interpreting your church's tradition, but I need your help in order to interpret scripture. You did end up talking over me. I know you tried to hold it together. I know it's difficult. But again, I'm leading you by the hand. Do you at least try? Do you at least understand what I'm saying? Steel man. What I'm saying so I know that you at least have ears to hear.
[17:14]
B
Bro. All you're doing is just blabbing on like a female.
[17:22]
A
Milton, you've outdone yourself. I can't believe what I'm hearing. Milton, you have shown yourself to be irreparably. You are. You are invincibly ornery. I've never experienced this. I've never experienced this. Milton, Professor Mustache is gonna have to bid you adieu. I wish you all the best in life. I've enjoyed our conversation. Until next time. Milton. I just. I. I want you to know I've really thoroughly enjoyed our conversation.
[17:54]
B
Bro.
[17:54]
A
I do. I do. Adieu, Milton. May God bless you on your way and grant you everything that you ever hoped for in your life. Unless it's bad for you, in which case, may he not. Oh, I can't hear you. Oh, you're muted.
[18:11]
B
Ha. The.
[18:12]
C
The Jola scriptura fallacy.
[18:15]
A
So good. It's so Good.
[18:17]
C
To be fair, just so Milan knows it, we were two minutes over time anyway.
[18:21]
A
Yeah, no, that, that, honestly, that was really enjoyable. I really, like, I very rarely get to let loose like that because I try to be really, you know, calm. Once someone starts telling me to shut up on my own stream, like, no, you don't come in here and do that. That's not how this works. So on the one hand, I could boot him or we could have a little bit of fun. And I chose, that was fun.
[18:41]
C
And someone even said, dang, I didn't know Calvinist could be funny.
[18:47]
A
It's rare. It's only Calvinist Baptists. Only, only. It's only Calvinist Baptists. Presbyterians are a little too serious. No, I'm sure. No, Presbyterians can be funny too. Yeah, yeah, that was a lot of fun. But look, look, I'm going to give you the, the 32nd synopsis of what just happened. Someone accused Joel said a case of not being able to interpret the Bible even though the Bible promises that it's able to be to, to equip us for every good work, including the good work of interpreting Scripture, by the way. But then he goes, I know what the Bible says because I've got 2,000 years of unbroken tradition. To which of course my natural question is, well, does that supposedly unbroken tradition need to be interpreted? He said, yes. Can it be misinterpreted? Yes. Well, how do you know that you have the proper interpretation of that 2000 years of tradition? And he goes, because. Because that, because it's the tradition. Because we've got the tradition. We. That's how it's always been interpreted. Wait, wait a minute. He just, he couldn't see it for some reason. He couldn't see that the same standard he was trying to apply to the Bible turns back around and applies to his tradition. The difference being the Bible promises by God that it is sufficient for every good work and tradition comes with no such promise. So he couldn't see it. I know that. I know that the audience think squad could see it, but you know, hopefully someday Milton will turn around. Until then though, this is going to go down as one of the most fun debates. I never kick anybody out. I never try to. His time was up. Okay, but I just. We had to do it. We had to do it. It was fun.
[20:27]
C
All right, so we have our last guest, but before we bring up Truth Teller, who's our last guest for the night, we have Taylor with some super chats here. Taylor, thank you for the two five dollar super chats. And he says, Taylor here, if the Tri Omni God exists, does it follow that the past could not have happened any other way so that the greatest good happens?
[20:52]
A
It's a great question.
[20:53]
C
Wait, oh, just so you have it all, if so, would it follow that if I die an atheist, that is the greatest good that could have occurred?
[21:02]
A
Man, I love this question and I want to answer it with great fear and trepidation. Lord, please give me wisdom here. Let me say that from my limited human perspective, I do not want you to die an atheist. Please do not die an atheist. I mean, I'm literally going to implore you, do not die an atheist. Don't go, don't step into eternity without bending the knee to the Lord Jesus Christ. Please do not do that. It's not worth it, holding on to whatever autonomy you feel like you have. Or, I mean, man, we. I shared a lot of truth with you today. That means you're going to be accountable for that truth before Almighty God. Please do not die as an atheist. Now, that being said, the Tri Omni God does exist. The Triune God of scripture does exist. He is all wise and his ways are not our ways. His thoughts are not our thoughts. Whatever ends up happening is the best possible scenario according to God and according to what is objectively true, which is another way of saying the same thing. Now, could God have made things differently? That's a great question, and I think only God knows the answer to that because God will always do what is best. But God is only constrained internally. And sometimes people want to say, well, if God can only do what is best, then God is like constrained. And God is no different than the fates of ancient Greeks, Greece or something like that. But, but it's important to remember God's constraints, if we can call them that, are all internal. This is why God cannot deny himself, because it's against his own character. No one's outside of God constricting him or constraining him. In the end, whatever ends up happening will be because of God's foresight, His decree. Could God have decreed, take something very small? Could God have decreed that I have blonde hair instead of brown? I want to say yes, but I don't know in, in this sense, if God decided to, of course, yeah, God could do that. But in God's wisdom, he chose that I had brown hair. And so I don't know whatever the entailments would be of me not having. Maybe my wife wouldn't have been attracted to me. And I know it seems hard to believe like that she wouldn't be attracted to me. I mean, it's almost outside the realm of possibility. And in case she watches this later, I hope she does. But the fact of the matter is God has a perfect plan that involves me having brown hair, that involves you dying in whatever state you will have died in. And I'm not one to question God's wisdom. And the fact is, I just don't know. I don't know how much God could have changed without changing something essential to his plan. So I'm gonna have to plead ignorance on that. I'm sorry, I. I don't know. But I will also plead with you. Repent. Turn to the Lord Jesus Christ. Be saved. He will forgive you all of your sins. Wouldn't it be great to have that weight of sin lifted off of you? And wouldn't that be amazing to be saved and forgiven? Wouldn't it be absolutely amazing to be able to go to church and rejoice in song in using your gifts for the people of God that Jesus Christ has set you free from everything that. That you gain no benefit from in. In eternal sense. Be free. Turn to the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved. You're a Christian man. You want to build a legacy, answer the world's questions and lay down a solid foundation for your family in God's word. But everywhere you look, you see decline, disorder, chaos. Your neighbors don't know the Lord. And too many churches are filled with apathy. In today's world, we need men who understand theology, know scripture, and who are committed to leading their families in the biblical worldview. That is why we're building the Hammer and Anvil Society, the ultimate discipleship community for Christian men. With weekly cohort calls, a full library of resources and courses, weekly challenges and live teaching, you're going to sharpen your mind and your character. Our full library of courses is going to help you deepen your knowledge in the Christian worldview. Family, discipleship and apologetics, the defense of your faith. But it's not just about building your knowledge base. As important as that is, it's also about brotherhood. That's why you'll also have access to an online community and live cohort calls live teaching and real accountability so you can have fellowship with like minded brothers who are on the same journey as you. Member Kevin says the Hammer and Anvil Society has been the most beneficial thing for my family's spiritual growth in years. This unique brotherhood has made me more bold in my witness and more sensitive to God's leading. AJ says Today I stand stronger and more rooted in my faith. The Hammer and Anvil Society has been instrumental in transforming me into the man of God I am striving to be. Get unlimited access as a member or try out a single course in the subject of your choice. Learn more now. Go to thethink.instuart/society. Get equipped. Build your legacy in community. Join today.