Why Todd Doesn’t Want the Bible Taught in Public Schools

Summary

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Wretched Radio with Todd Friel

Episode Date: July 14, 2026
Summary by Podcast Summarizer

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Episode Overview

In this episode of Wretched Radio, host Todd Friel, joined by Jimmy Hicks and Michael Horton, navigates a range of hot-button issues impacting the Christian community and society at large. The running theme is the tension between cultural Christianity and genuine faith, specifically examining religion’s influence on society, public policy, and personal fulfillment. The episode critiques movements to impose Christian morals in public spaces, reflects on current events, and highlights the central need for gospel transformation over mere moral reform.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Cultural Trends and Theological Reflections

• Nudity at Pride Parades (Seattle):

  • The hosts discuss the increasing normalization of nudity at Pride events, especially around children, interpreting such actions as a deliberate rejection of concepts like shame, sin, and the need for atonement.
  • [03:35] Todd Friel: “This is a fist shake at God... simply saying, don’t believe in God, don’t believe in sin, don’t believe in the fall.”

• Religion’s Societal Fruit: India vs. America:

  • Comparing sanitation and mortality in India (high diarrhea-related deaths) to America’s infrastructure, the hosts claim these reflect underlying religious worldviews. Christianity, they argue, produces “better fruit” for societal flourishing.
  • [07:16] Todd Friel: “Worldview and religion inform society, which produces fruit in a culture. In India, the predominant religion is Hinduism. Look at the fruit, and it tells you everything you need to know about the religion.”

• Christian Schools and State Policy:

  • Discussion of court rulings mandating Christian schools adhere to LGBT policies to qualify for state tuition, highlighting loss of religious freedoms when accepting government funds.
  • [10:20] Todd Friel: “If the government gives you money, there are going to be strings attached.”

2. The Problem of “Cultural Christianity”

• Bibles in Public Schools (Texas):

  • Debate around the state mandating that students learn about the Bible as literature. Both hosts express concern that secular instruction of scripture risks diminishing its spiritual authority and message.
  • [25:04] Michael Horton: “That’s not the point of the Bible. The point of the Bible is to shine a spotlight on the redemptive work of the Lord Jesus Christ. That God might be glorified in all things.”
  • Both panelists are wary of having non-believers or those hostile to Christianity teach biblical content in public settings.
  • [25:54] Jimmy Hicks: “I don’t want random people teaching my kids Scripture.”

• Critique of Cultural Christianity and Christian Nationalism:

  • Todd Friel traces the popularity (especially in the South) of "cultural Christianity"—a veneer of Christian values without genuine faith.
  • The dangers of theonomy (imposing Old Testament Mosaic law on modern societies) and dominionism receive critical analysis. The team asserts that God's desire is heart transformation, not merely external behavioral compliance.
  • [39:18] Todd Friel: “We want people to behave better because they want to behave better, because they love the Lord Jesus Christ... That’s too low of a bar [to settle for moral behavior alone].”
  • [44:24] Michael Horton: “We’re not nation builders, we’re church builders. We populate God’s kingdom... That isn’t why we should be trying to make people think or behave more Christianly. We should be seeking their salvation to populate the church.”

3. Fertility, Family, and Human Flourishing

• Declining Birth Rates:
  • The team explores factors behind declining Western fertility rates, including economic issues, peer and celebrity culture, social media, and pervasive fear (climate concerns, etc.).
  • Argues that meaning and flourishing come from aligning one’s life with God’s design (marriage, family, and sacrificial love).
  • [18:23] Todd Friel: “If you don’t know what your purpose is on the planet, you can fumble around a lot, but you’re never going to find satisfaction.”

4. News and Societal Issues

• Fortis News Break (w/ Jimmy Hicks):
  • Updates include medical emergencies at abortion clinics, legal battles over child custody in surrogacy, euthanasia bills in France, labor and immigration fraud, and trends in crime and law enforcement.
  • [27:30] Jimmy Hicks: “Enforcing the law—it actually works.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Pride Parades and Theology:

  • “[Parades] are a theological statement that says, ‘No, I don’t think there’s shame. We reject the whole idea of sin and depravity…’”
    — Todd Friel [03:49]

• On Comparing Religions:

  • “Look at the fruit of Christianity. It does more good than any other religion. Have you been to an Islamic funded hospital lately? It’s all Christian.”
    — Todd Friel [08:21]

• Danger of State-Directed Religious Education:

  • “Who are these people [teaching the Bible]? Are they going to mock it? Are they going to make fun of it?...I think it diminishes the Bible and I don’t think it accomplishes what people hope it will.”
    — Michael Horton [25:12]

• On Cultural Christianity:

  • “That is such a low goal. We want people to love the Lord Jesus Christ.”
    — Todd Friel [31:33]

• Imposing Morality vs. Preaching the Gospel:

  • “If God hates the sacrifices of people who don’t really love him, do you think that he loves the behavior of people who don’t love him, even when they're behaving better? He detests it. He wants hearts, not just behavior.”
    — Michael Horton [45:02]

• The Distinction Between Israel and the Church:

  • “America is not Israel. Israel was a specific geopolitical entity...We’re not nation builders, we’re church builders.”
    — Michael Horton [44:31]

• Evangelistic Methodology Emphasis:

  • “Anything else [besides gospel transformation] is less. Nations are not regenerated… Individual Christians can [be].”
    — Michael Horton [44:15 and 53:42]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:35] Nudity at Pride parades—theology and societal decline
• [07:00] Sanitation in India, religion as societal influence
• [11:34] Christian schools and government-imposed LGBT policies
• [18:23 & 20:30] Declining birth rates—peer, celebrity, and cultural influence
• [25:04] Texas to teach Bible as literature—debated merits/risks
• [27:30] News updates—abortion, surrogacy, euthanasia, labor fraud
• [31:33] Cultural Christianity vs. genuine faith
• [39:18] Critique of Christian nationalism/theonomy
• [44:24] Israel, the church, and national laws
• [51:00] Early church as countercultural example
• [53:30] Ultimate mission—building the church, not nations

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Tone & Style

As always, Todd Friel infuses weighty theological issues with humor and a lively, sometimes sardonic, tone. The conversation is direct, sometimes provocative, with cross-talk and playful banter between the hosts, but maintains a clear emphasis on biblical priorities and distinctions.

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Genuine Christian transformation starts with the heart and a relationship with Christ, not mere external moral compliance or “Christian” cultural veneer.
• Society’s ills cannot be truly remedied by the imposition of biblical morals; the mission of the church is gospel proclamation, not national moral reform.
• The distinction between Israel (as a nation under Mosaic Law) and the church (a spiritual body across nations) is critical for understanding the limits of applying Old Testament law in modern politics or society.
• Caution is urged regarding state involvement in teaching or legislating religious content.
• Results—like robust families, good works, and civil order—should be the overflow of real faith, not substitutes for it.

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“We’re not nation builders, we’re church builders. We populate God’s kingdom. And does it have an impact on this kingdom here, the small K kingdom? Yeah, but that isn’t why we should be trying to make people think or behave more Christianly. We should be seeking their salvation to populate the church.”
— Michael Horton [44:24]

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Transcript

[Todd Friel]

Wretched radio begins in 3, 2, 1.

[Jimmy Hicks]

I started giving on that level so

[Michael Horton]

that God would owe me. Whatever you do right now, don't you stop tithing. Harvest responds only to seed, not to prayer.

[Jimmy Hicks]

This is not about material wealth. This is about God in his providence, orchestrating all of history in order to bring about that which we need more than anything else, and that is to be rescued from God.

[Todd Friel]

It's time for Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Jimmy Hicks]

You be the judge.

[Michael Horton]

You want answers? I think I'm entitled. You want answers? I want the truth. You can't handle the truth. Order in the court. This is Wretched Radio. Prepare to play one of America's fastest growing game sensations. With which one does Jimmy disagree? That's right. With which one does Jimmy disagree? Normally, Jimmy Hicks, he would represent the tens and tens of people listening to this here Wretched Radio radio program. But today, Jimmy, much more narrow, you represent you. Because the name of the game show is with which One does Jimmy Hicks disagree? Okay, so you're just representing yourself. I have a slew, a veritable slew of stories in my never before nicotine stained fingers. One of them I suspect you're going to disagree with. Not sure. But let's see if you can find this Easter egg that I have inside of this stack. You ready?

[Jimmy Hicks]

I'm ready.

[Michael Horton]

You track it?

[Jimmy Hicks]

Yeah, I'm tracking.

[Michael Horton]

Any questions?

[Jimmy Hicks]

Nope. No questions.

[Todd Friel]

All right.

[Michael Horton]

Because, Todd, it couldn't be more basic if we were four. All righty, here we go. Story number one. Oh, Seattle. Did you enjoy the Pride Parade? Because there were nude marchers prancing through the streets in front of children. Why is this always about that? Why do I always see a connection between any of these stories, whether it's trans stories, lgb, whatever it is, that there is something sexual behind it. It is always connected to sex. It isn't just about a movement or rights. It is always about more. And I think this Pride Parade, this is nothing new, by the way. I don't think this is the first Pride Parade, but Fox News reporting on this one was especially a lulu because dudes are running around without any clothing in front of children. And what about the moms and dads of these children? You need to have your parenting license taken away to let your child come and see that. This is a fist shake at God. That's what it is. Anytime somebody desires to shed their clothing, it is a theological statement that says, no, I don't think there's shame. Nope. I don't think that we should be Embarrassed about anything? Nope. We're going to just go ahead and prance around in our birthday suits because we reject the whole idea of sin and depravity, which is what is the cause for our desire as human beings. The only species on the planet that wants to cover up. Why don't animals want to put on clothes? Because they don't have the same senses we do. And we should have this sense that something ain't right. We used to be, before the fall, nudity was not what we think of as nudity automatically. Today we think nudity and we go, duh. Bad, bad, bad. Well, it wasn't always when there wasn't sin, when there wasn't shame, when there wasn't a lack of trust between human beings. But now there is. And that is why there is clothing to cover that shame. God being the first designer to put together our togs for us. A symbol of the gospel. That's why he killed the first animal shedding blood for the covering of our sins. And so when you go to one of these parades and they are shedding their clothes, they're simply saying, don't believe in God, don't believe in sin, don't believe in the fall story number two. You okay with that one, Jimmy?

[Jimmy Hicks]

I'm good.

[Michael Horton]

Anything you want to add to that?

[Jimmy Hicks]

No, no, no.

[Michael Horton]

All right. You're kind of mellow today. You're not back on that oxy, are you?

[Jimmy Hicks]

No, no, I'm just not as crabby as I was yesterday.

[Michael Horton]

Well, that's a treat. You all got everything sorted out with a new technology? No, but you're just not as crabby about it.

[Jimmy Hicks]

That's right.

[Michael Horton]

All righty, fine. And let's go to India, shall we? Oh, you're eight times. This is Revolver News. You're eight times more likely to die of diarrhea in India than be killed by a gun in America. Well, there you have it.

[Todd Friel]

Who?

[Michael Horton]

Oh, so much to be said, so little time. The. The gun statistics that you see. We don't want anybody to die when they, when they, when they don't deserve to die. Now, there are people who do deserve to die when they take the life of another. I think there can be other crimes that qualify for the death penalty, but we don't want to see anybody killed unnecessarily. Of course not, but gun statistics are far overblown. If you take out the use of firearms for self inflicted wounds, well, the murder rate, if you will, plummets. No, we don't want any of it. But that doesn't mean that guns are the cause of just pillaging all over the United States of America. Go to India, you're eight times more likely to die of diarrhea in India. Why? Well, they have a sanitation problem. Some people would say, well, you can thank Great Britain and their occupation of Great Britain. But others would respond, well, hold on. It's been eight decades. At some point, a nation has to be responsible for its own sanitation and the health of its people. Why is India stuck? I believe that the answer can be found in their national religion. That's right. They believe in Hindu nationalism increasingly in India, but that has always been the predominant religion. Yeah, there's a sprinkling of Christians, there's a few Muslims, but overall, it's Hinduism. And I think that you can judge the quality of a religion based on the fruit that it bears in a nation. And in America, the Christian religion has borne so much good fruit. We have bathrooms every place. We have roads with lines on them. We have electricity and Internet. We have technology and we have skyscrapers. And we can give credit in part to the worldview that promoted and was the impetus behind all of those inventions. Do you remember Vodi Bakam talking about sidewalks in Africa? When Vodi was in Africa, he noticed there aren't any sidewalks and everybody walks every place you come to America, nobody walks anywhere and we got sidewalks all over the place. Why? It's because in America, we esteem life. We want people to be safe. And so we spend the money and the time and the energy to make sure that there's a place for them to walk so they don't get hit by a car and killed. In Africa, the predominant religion that informed so much of the social structures is not Christian. And so human life is not as valued here. In other words, worldview and religion, it informs the society which produces fruit in a culture. In India, the predominant religion is Hinduism. Look at the fruit and it tells you everything you need to know about the religion. That's story number two, Jimmy, you got a problem with that?

[Jimmy Hicks]

No.

[Michael Horton]

Well, you're not very progressive because progressives would say, how dare you? You can't say that one religion is better than another. Well, I think we can. Look at the fruit of the religion. Look at the fruit of Christianity. It does more good than any other religion. Have you been to an Islamic funded hospital lately? It's all Christian. That does so much good, that gives so much money, that feeds so many people, that helps the poor, that adopts children. Look at the fruit of Christianity. And that is why when I will hear some people that, well, look at all the bad stuff Christianity does, okay? There's some stuff that people that. That call themselves Christians do, but if they're doing grotesque things, we would say that person isn't really a Christian. Furthermore, whatever that bad is, it is a drop in the bucket compared to the good. The fruit of Christianity is undeniable contrasted to Hinduism. Sorry, there's a big difference. Story number three. Did you hear this one, Jimmy? Enoch Burke. Does that name ring a bell? You maybe cover this in the news? Once upon a time, this was the teacher, an Irish teacher who wouldn't play the pronoun game. He was sent to jail. Now, I get it. This story is a little bit more complicated because he continued to go back to the school when they said, we don't want you coming back to the school. It appears that he could have been denying not applying or adhering to court orders. Nevertheless, he'd spent 700 days in prison after repeatedly refusing to comply with court orders directing him to stay away from the schools. He was suspended in 2022, where he was. Because he had to use the pronoun of the transgender student, and he refused to do it. 700 days. Ireland. What's going on in Ireland, then? I don't know what that accent was either. I was trying to. I was trying to be Irish, but it kind of turned out a little bit of. Well, a mutt is what that turned out to be. Story number whatever we're on. Christian schools must follow state LGBT policies to qualify for tuition. Oh, boy. It's finally happening. I don't know if you remember, but years ago, when the whole Obergefell thing passed further, even prior to that, I remember people saying, when the gives you money, there will be a string attached to it. And if the government is giving your school money, then you're going to have to comply ultimately with government mandates. Even if they are mandates that insist you violate your Christian principles. Well, that's taken longer than I think any of us anticipated. But the 1st U.S. circuit Court of Appeals, the main. Humane. The main, as in the state Human Rights act for families. In order to qualify for state tuition program, the school's gotta comply with. You know what it is. LGBTQ policies don't want to be Henny Penny, but school, church, be ready. If the government gives you money, there are going to be strings attached. This is wretched radio.

[Jimmy Hicks]

You know, we've raised a generation of kids who can sing every word about Jesus, but they still can't say why the Bible is true. And the world. Well, they've earned that because they've spent years teaching our children that truth bends and that science outgrew God. And the reasons are there. Logic, morality, the very laws that make science work. And every single one of them points back to a creator. And when you give kids that, faith stops being something they hope is true and become something they know is true. And it also spreads because they share it clearer with everyone around them. That's exactly what the series Irrefutable Proof of creation with Dr. Jason Lyle was built for. It's a biblical formation for a generation that needs answers. They need real ground to stand on, not just a good feeling. And that's what Dr. Lyle is doing. New episodes of Irrefutable Proof of Creation streaming right now and dropping weekly on Fortis Plus. You can download the app on your smartphone, your smart TV, or simply go to fortis plus.org Would you like the

[Michael Horton]

university experience without the, you know, university experience? The Master's University invites you to visit their campus. Or you can visit them online at Masters. Edu Wretched to discover a Christian college that is biblical, that offers all of the academic excellence you desire. Sports, athletics, arts, communication, all of the activities of, you know, a secular university without the, you know, secular parts. Please consider the Master's University online or of course, on campus learning, undergrad, master's and doctoral programs. It's Master's University, the university with the university experience without the university experience. Masters. Edu Wretched so we decided to run

[Jimmy Hicks]

the gospel through a Focus Groove, and they loved the part about love. Then came the notes. Sin sounds a little bit harsh, so they suggested we call it Personal Brokenness Hell. Well, that's a big negative. Maybe spiritual separation, saying Jesus is the only way? Well, that's just intolerant. You have to make him one of many meaningful paths. And the call to repent and believe, that just raises a little bit of friction. How about like and subscribe? We thank them for their time and kept the message. If you're done rounding off the edges, Witness Wednesday here at Wretched Radio will help you share the real gospel. A holy God, real sin, a just wrath, a crucified and risen Savior, and a clear call to repent and believe. And we'll do it clearly and without the sales pitch. It's Witness Wednesday on Wretched Radio. You can listen to your heart's [e-mail].

[Todd Friel]

Titles of Christ in the Bible, Jesus is given many titles that teach us about who he is and what he has done. Jesus is Called the physician. Jesus healed many physical ailments during his ministry on earth. When he comes again, he will put an end to death and disease and give us spiritual bodies to last for eternity. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Michael Horton]

Don't know what's happening here, but this is not Christian. I'm just gonna tell you. This is not Christian. What's happening right here on this wretched radio program. Jimmy.

[Jimmy Hicks]

What?

[Michael Horton]

I've gone through like five or six stories and we've agreed on all of them. Am I correct?

[Jimmy Hicks]

I think so.

[Michael Horton]

Y have that kind of like mindedness. What kind of evangelicals are we?

[Jimmy Hicks]

Who am I going to blog about?

[Michael Horton]

We need to be dividing over something.

[Jimmy Hicks]

That's right.

[Michael Horton]

I need to be able to call you heretic for some reason or another. Here we go. Let's keep trying, shall we? Okay, I have a stack. I have a stack of stories. You're just barely tolerating me, aren't you?

[Jimmy Hicks]

That, I mean, that's been like that for years.

[Todd Friel]

Oh,

[Michael Horton]

to the quick. All righty, story number. Whatever we're on, let's see if we can find one we disagree on. Young people aren't having babies. One of the reasons, I think there's a lot of contributing factors, but we all know that people aren't having babies. And here's the. Here's the scary part. By the year 2050, there will be a decrease in fertility, which means we're going to be going backwards as a nation in population growth. Right now we're sustaining it basically because we're not even replacing ourselves. I think the number is 1.4. It needs to be 2.5, or maybe it's 1.5 and 2.4. We're not even coming close to having enough babies to replace ourselves. So how is the population growing? Immigration. That's the only way that it's growing, which is not sustainable, by the way. But according to the Institute for Family Studies, that would be your ifs points to two reasons that we have not considered here at Wretched Radio. I think. I think pornography is one big reason. I think that the delayed adulthood and the prolonged adolescence that we are providing for our kids, that's not helping. I don't think the economy is helping. I don't think the job market is helping. I don't think the church is doing enough to contradict the messages that the world is giving about how scary it is to get married and how dangerous it is. And if you bring children into this world, they're just going to produce more carbon 14 and we're going to blow a hole in the ozone and we're all going to die. And they're scared to have kids because of global warming. But this study says peer culture and celebrity culture are two of the components. The reasons that kids aren't wanting to have kids is because they've got friends that don't. So they don't. They see celebrities that don't, and they don't either. In other words, peer pressure. They look to their peers, they look to celebrities, and they make decisions. Here's the bad part. Better, more bad part. The trends show no sign of slowing down and mean incoming human tragedies, including more loneliness, more meaninglessness. In other words, all of these statistics that we've all been hearing about now about depression and anxiety and the suicidal ideations and the loneliness epidemic, it's not going away because they're not doing what it is that God would have us to do for human flourishing. God has a system. God has programs. Every aspect of your life is designed by God. If you fit into his design, you're going to flourish. If you don't, you won't. And so when we are not getting married, as a rule, I'm not knocking singlehood, but as a rule, if you're not getting married, if you're not having children, you simply can't be as happy. Why? Because we're made to procreate with one person of the opposite gender. That's what we're made for. This is one of the things my book is actually coming out in September. It's called Go Serve youe King. And it is an effort to try to integrate faith and reality. And I think one of the illustrations that I use is if you were going into your job, but you don't know what your job is, say you're going. You walk into a factory and they give you your uniform and say, go to work. How would you do? How would you function? Probably not well, now you'd kind of get your act together and kind of look around and see what everybody else is doing. But even if you could do your job, it wouldn't be very satisfying because you don't know what you're doing. What are we producing here? What's the point of all of this? Am I helping people? If you don't know the building that you're in, the factory product that is being produced, you simply can't flourish in that environment. Ditto this world. If you don't know what you're doing here, if you don't know what the point is, if you don't know what your purpose is on the planet, you can fumble around a lot, but you're never going to find satisfaction. That's Mick Jagger's problem. Apparently. We just discovered Mick Jagger's problem. His worldview. He can't find no satisfaction, can't get no. He can't get no satisfaction because he doesn't know what he's doing here. He thinks that he's here to sell records or to be famous or to try to defy death by running 50 miles a day as an 82 year old or whatever he is. That's not the purpose. And so he'll die unhappy. Why? Because he is not abiding by the reality that God has created. And marriage and parenting are two of those realities. Even when it comes to intimacy, if you're not getting married and you're being frisky, it's not going to be satisfying because that's not the way it's supposed to be done. Everything is supposed to be done according to the way that God says it. When you do, flourishing. When you don't, misery. And because so many young people aren't getting married and having children, they don't. I was talking to some young couples at church and they had a number of. Each one of them had a number of kids. It's such a delight we're seeing so many young families coming now to Alpharetta Bible Church and they're bringing their kids. And pastor, this might be a shout out to you because we made a decision a while ago when it comes to youth programs, we're not going to compete with the Whiz Bang center down the street. We're going to catechize kids, we're going to try to pull kids up, we're going to try to encourage kids to be obedient children, to love the Lord Jesus Christ, to be different than their peers. And guess what? There are actually parents out there that want that. And I was talking to some of them and we were simply talking about how so many people say, oh, having babies and oh, the diapers and oh, you don't get to go out on a Saturday night and oh, you don't get to be your authentic self. Okay, yeah, there are sacrifices, but sacrifice is good. It's good to sacrifice for another. There is fulfillment in that. In fact, it does help you diminish your selfishness. Furthermore, all of the sweet moments that you're missing out on, all the good stuff, all the happy times. Yeah, there's changing diapers. That ain't always fun. Okay. That ain't ever fun. Actually, you know what? I didn't mind changing diapers because it was a sweet time. You had a little human being there that was just trusting you to take care of their needs. You can't buy that at Walmart. That is so deep and it is so profound found and you miss out on so much that is good. And because peers now are looking around to see what other peers and what other celebrities are doing. Well, guess what? They. They aren't having babies because they're not having babies. And I'm afraid that they're missing the boat. Social media doesn't help. IPhones don't help. Pornography doesn't help. But now, now we. Now we've got this whole celebrity culture telling you to not have babies. They're listening, and it's to their own detriment. How are we doing, Jimmy? Any disagreement here?

[Jimmy Hicks]

Not yet.

[Michael Horton]

All right, let's give this one a go.

[Todd Friel]

Okay.

[Michael Horton]

Texas just approved it. They're going to be teaching the Bible to the kids in school curriculum so that the kids can learn traditions that have shaped Western civilization. The rationale behind the new reading requirements comes from a Republican member of the Texas Education School Board who told the Texas Tribune prior to to the list passage, the readings are intended to give students important insight into the moral and philosophical traditions that have shaped Western civilization. Is that a legitimate field of study? You bet it is. Because Christianity has informed so much of Western civilization. But do I want the Bible being taught for that reason in schools? I don't. Why? Because that's not the point of the Bible. The point of the Bible isn't how it informs a society and changes civilization. The point of the Bible is to shine a spotlight on the redemptive work of the Lord Jesus Christ. That God might be glorified in all things. That's the point of the Bible. That's the message of the Bible. God is holy. You're a big sinner. Jesus is a great savior. You need to run to him in repentance and faith. That's the message of the Bible. And to simply treat it like it had a lot like gaiti in Germany, the influence that it had. Sorry, the Bible is more than that. Furthermore, I don't know that I'm nuts about people teaching the Bible to my children. Who are these people and what are they doing teaching the Bible? And what do they believe about them? Are they going to mock it? Are they going to make fun of it? The biblical passages will be taught as literature and history. Rather than as religious instruction. I don't like that at all because that's not what I get it. You can study that. We've done that here on Wretched radio. But that's not what I want kids to think about the Bible. It actually, I think, diminishes the Bible and I don't think it accomplishes what people hope that it will. They're going to be teaching picture book adaptations of Bible stories to elementaries to kids in the elementary school. David and Goliath, Daniel in the lion's den. By fourth grade, students will begin reading passages about Jesus from the New Testament. Middle school, they're going to be getting Sermon on the Mount. How's that going to be taught? How are they going to explain it? And worse than that, will they mock it and just do it Begrudgingly. I wish I could be more excited about it, but I'm afraid I can't. How we doing now, Jimmy?

[Jimmy Hicks]

Still 100%?

[Michael Horton]

No, that was the one where I thought we'd disagree.

[Jimmy Hicks]

Why would you think we would disagree?

[Michael Horton]

I don't know. I thought it had the most potential at least, because I just. It's like cool the Bible's being taught in school. It's great.

[Jimmy Hicks]

I don't want random people teaching my kids Scripture.

[Michael Horton]

What he said. This is Wretched Radio.

[Jimmy Hicks]

And it's now time for your daily Fortis News Breaker production of Fortis Institute. Well, three young women were rushed by ambulance from the same Planned Parenthood facility in Denver. A 31 year old with suspected heart trouble, a 26 year old with chest pains and a 20 year old who was bleeding extensively. The pro life watchdogs at Operation Rescue say we may never learn what really happened because Denver heavily redacts dispatch records and won't release the 911 audio. Colorado has built a privacy fence around its abortion industry, leaving women no way to check a clinic's safety record north of the border. A homosexual couple in Ontario is suing the surrogate mother who carried their son because she refused to abort him. They wanted the pregnancy ended over a cleft lip and possibly genetic problems, but specialists found the baby was healthy. Now they're demanding $600,000 from a single mom who says they're suing her for her house. The mother was pretty clear when she said they didn't get the perfect child they wanted, so they threw it away. Meanwhile in France, the Senate rejected the national euthanasia bill last week for the third time. But the national assembly can override it and is expected to try to do that this week with the president pushing hard for that to happen. The bill has no conscience, protections for Christian hospitals, nursing homes, nurses or pharmacies. The waiting period before death is just 48 hours. Families have no legal way to intervene. And One estimate says 50,000 French citizens could die this way every single year. Canada's already run this, this experiment, and France could save the world a whole lot of grief by just reading their results. The Labor Department has launched a major investigation into fraud in the H1B visa program. The program is meant for highly skilled foreign workers. Investigators found widespread schemes where employers filed phony applications and squeezed workers through wage kickback arrangements and also flooded the market with cheap labor to undercut Americans. The department's inspector general says this isn't just just paperwork fraud. It's forced labor and human trafficking. Vice President J.D. vance says the program was built for brilliant scientists and doctors, not for corporations gaming the system. And the gaming doesn't appear to be over. But we will close today with some good news. FBI arrests surged 197% in 2025, and the murder rate has fallen to the lowest level ever recorded during the Biden years. Reported crime dipped while actual business victimization jumped 59% because people quit calling police who wouldn't come and prosecutors wouldn't prosecute. Voters have since tossed out the Soros backed district attorneys and arrests are starting to come with consequences again. Turns out enforcing the law, it actually works. And that wraps up today's Fortis News break. I'm Jimmy Hicks. If you want more, you can download Fortis plus or sign up to become a Force Insider for exclusive daily content. Both can be [e-mail] and over forget. You can subscribe to Fortis News on your favorite podcast app in order to get these updates and daily and until tomorrow, go serve your king.

[Todd Friel]

Important dates in Christian history 1678 John Bunyan's the Pilgrim's Progress is published. Written while Bunyan was imprisoned for preaching the gospel, this allegorical tale of the Christian life becomes second in international circulation, exceeded only by the Bible. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Michael Horton]

Hey. Hey, Jimmy.

[Jimmy Hicks]

Yes?

[Michael Horton]

You want to get in some more hot water?

[Jimmy Hicks]

Absolutely.

[Michael Horton]

Alrighty then. This is Wretched radio. Not trying to get up your nose intentionally, but as long as Jimmy brought up the subject of not being perhaps thrilled that the Bible is being taught to our kids in public schools. By whom? These are the same people that are teaching sex ed, the same people that are teaching evolution, the same people that are endorsing lgbtq? The same people that won't tell parents that their kids are desiring to transition. I want them teaching the Bible. I don't know that it is the win that we think it is, but I do believe. I get it. I really do. I do get it. On the face of it, it's like, yeah, and prayer in school. Hold on. Who's leading those prayers? And we're gonna have somebody lead our children in prayers when they don't actually believe in the Lord Jesus Christ? Are they going to pray in the name of Jesus Christ? What are going to be the contents of those prayers? Will they do it mockingly? Okay, kids, we got to do this stupid prayer now, because if I don't, I'll get fired. Yikes. I'm just not thrilled about that. Furthermore, having the Bible being taught as a mere historical document, that was influential in the forming of Western civilization, while I do believe that is absolutely true, that is not the power of the Bible. That is not its purpose and function. Its purpose and function is to shine the spotlight on the Lord Jesus Christ. Now, it just so happens in Western civilization, because so many people were Christians, it did infect the society. And I mean that infection in a very good way. It influenced it mightily, but it was because people were adhering to the religion, not just using it as a cultural influencer. And increasingly, these days, there is a movement and even a defense of cultural Christianity. And what makes this argument somewhat persuasive to an increasing number of people, I get. Because I used to live in Minnesota, and now I live in Atlanta, and there's a difference. In Minnesota, it was Sonny Perdue. I'm pretty certain it was Sonny Perdue was the governor. When we moved here 19 years ago, the drought had been going on for about three years, and we moved here, and we heard that the governor of the state of Georgia had decreed that there would be a statewide day of prayer petitioning God for rain. What? What? That doesn't happen in the Twin Cities, y'. All. That would be like, are you kidding me? That would be. That would. Twenty years ago, they would have been screaming about it. They've progressed far. But believe me, there would have been so much bellyaching about that. Furthermore, I get that living in the Bible Belt actually makes evangelism easier in that people are willing to talk about it. It's harder because sometimes they're inoculated. It's easier because it's just what we do. Seeing people pray in restaurants, it's what we do. You don't see that much in the Twin Cities. I get it. It's easier. I remember. I wish I could. Oh, who was the politician? Oh, I wish I could remember. We're watching the television. We just moved to Atlanta. And the politician came on and said, well, hey folks. Just warm and kind of unscripted sounding. You know, I've been serving this state that I just love so much. And you know, as a Bible believing Christian, it's just been an honor to serve my Lord Jesus Christ and to serve you people and well, if you have it in you for another vote, I'd be grateful. What just happened there? It was like, rewind. What did he say? The name of his Lord Jesus said, what is happening? Where am I? I'm in the South. There's a veneer of cultural Christianity and I get it, there's a value to it. But I also see that that is not something that we should be accepting. And it surprises me that so many people who are so conservative are actually okay with cultural Christianity. It's like, what, we want people pretending to be Christians or we want people to just be adhering to Christian values? That is such a low goal. We want people to love the Lord Jesus Christ. Was reading an article, lengthy article, eight pages. I've got a stack of them. This one is recent, that was just written in 2020, like two months ago. And I do, I've got a folder full of articles that are promoting a cultural Christianity or a theonomy or a dominionism or a Christian nationalism. And I've written on each one of them. How many Bible verses were contained inside of the article? Inside of the argument? This one, eight pages long, zero Bible verses in support of a cultural Christianity. Where are the Bible verses? There aren't Bible verses because that's not what Christianity is about. Does Christianity have that effect on culture? Yes, it does. Is that the goal of Christianity? No, it's not. The goal of Christianity is to see God glorified. When the redemptive work of Jesus Christ is in Christ, full glorious display. When sinners get saved and the effect later when there's enough of those born again believers, it will affect the culture. But we shouldn't be willing to accept a cultural Christianity. It defies the Great Commission. It defies what our Savior died to accomplish. Was reading a different article. This is a quote from George Washington. By the way, did you watch the George Washington movie?

[Jimmy Hicks]

I did not.

[Michael Horton]

Commie. We did. We actually. I think we saw it on the 4th of July. Turned out really great. We got an email. We weren't going to go see it. We kind of forgot about it. We got an email that said one ticket is five bucks. Okay? So Mrs. Friel and I, we did the deal and we went to the movie theater and we watched the movie on the drive home. They were doing fireworks at the park and the streets were cleared, and we're just driving down the road and watching all of these glorious fireworks go off. Oh, it was spectacular. And clearly we're more patriotic than Jimmy happens to be. Why didn't you go see was pretty good.

[Jimmy Hicks]

Did you have to go to the theater?

[Michael Horton]

Yeah, I did.

[Jimmy Hicks]

I've been kind of indisposed.

[Michael Horton]

Yeah, I guess you were.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah.

[Michael Horton]

All right, fine. You don't need to bring a note dismissing you from the George Washington movie. I wanted more from the movie. It wasn't a bad movie. It was pretty bellicose. It was, you know, fair amount. Well, no, a lot of violence that was going on. But I wanted to learn more about George Washington. I wanted to see what drove this guy to be so heroic at such a young age. They didn't give that. And I kind of felt myself going, die, I want more here. It was interesting to watch, but without the why. I didn't get the what he's doing. Which kind of is related to the quota that I want to share from George Washington from his farewell address in 1796. Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity. So what leads to political prosperity? Cultural good. Religion and morality are indispensable supports. Perhaps you've heard that. But then listen to his caution. Let us caution the indulgence of the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Now that's a shot at cultural Christianity, I think, of that movie. I still enjoyed that movie. In fact, I could watch that movie again. I believe it or not, it was produced by tbn. Time Changers, I think was the name of it. It had Gavin McLeod, the Captain Stubing from the Love Boat. Do you remember the movie? It was like late 1800s. A professor had discovered a time travel machine where you could go forward. And so he sent a professor forward who then came back to report what he saw in 1990. Whatever the time that this movie was made. And his report was, whoa, that Christianity, people are behaving atrociously. The movies that people are watching, the way that they treat one another, it's bad. It's bad. So what we need to do was his recommendation is we need to impose Christian values on people. And Captain Stubing said, you can't do that you've got to have religion behind them. You've got to give people the reason to desire to behave better. Otherwise it is a mere imposition of morality and it can never sustain itself, at least not for a long period of time. And I think that is true. And that is why I get the arguments that are being forwarded these days about the desire to see Christian values infecting, and I mean that in a good way, influencing government and education and society. I get it, I see it, I understand that. But that shouldn't be our desire. That's too low of a bar. And ultimately, what does it profit a nation if everybody behaves better, but they all die and go to hell? Was reading a 1689 Baptist confessionalism and Theonomy. Theonomy asserts that the judicial laws of the Mosaic Covenant are normative for all geopolitical entities, whether directly or in an adapted fashion. So there's varying degrees these days of Reconstructionists, theonomists, Dominionists, Christian nationalists. There's not uniform agreement on all of this. But basically the Mosaic Covenant, that should apply to everybody. And here's the argument, and it sounds persuasive on the serpent. The argument is, isn't it better if people obey the Mosaic laws? Yeah. Therefore, let's impose them. Wrong conclusion. Wrong conclusion. This merely creates whitewashed tombs. The Christian goal is so much greater, it's so much higher. And so the mission of those people who believe in Reconstruction or Dominionism or theonomy, they're saddest. Okay, that's not fair to say, because they do want to see people saved. But I don't think that we should be satisfied in any degree that people are just behaving better because Christians are flexing more muscle and claiming seats of political power. We want people to behave better because they want to behave better, because they love the Lord Jesus Christ. This is wretched radio.

[Jimmy Hicks]

Trust the science. You've heard it a million times, usually right before someone uses it to shut a conversation down instead of opening one up. But science is a tool. It's not a judge. And like any tool, it depends on who's holding it and what they already believe. Two scientists can look at the exact same data and walk away with opposite conclusions because each one brought a different worldview to the table. Science also leans on a few things. It can't prove that the universe stays orderly and that our minds can actually grasp truth. Both make the most sense of a rational God made it all. You take him out of the picture and you're left trusting that chaos somehow adds up. That's where in the beginning, when Dr. Jason Lyle comes in. He's a PhD astrophysicist. He'll teach you to read the science headlines without getting played. New episodes of in the Beginning are dropped every single Wednesday on every single podcast platform in existence [e-mail] you know the cycle. You're not alone. Temptation hits. You tell yourself, not this time. And then you do it anyway. You feel disgusting afterwards, you say you're sorry, you swear it'll never happen again. And then you're alone. And it does. Slaying the Dragon. This is not another strategy. This is not a band aid. It's not five Tips to Better Accountability. This is an audio resource and it's designed to give you what you need to never fall into this temptation again. Not manage it, but actually kill it. Because let's be honest about what's on the line here. Your job, your marriage, your kids, your soul. This is not a small thing you're playing with, and deep down, you know it. Every man needs to hear what's in this resource. Every single one. Whether you're in the thick of it or you think you've got it under control, the dragon is real and it needs to be slain. Slaying the Dragon. It's streaming right now for free on Fortis. Just download it on your smartphone, on your smart TV, or simply go to fortisplus.org thanks for listening to wretched radio today. You know what's rare? Finding something that makes you laugh and makes you think at the same time. And that's why we've brought in Gary Varvelle. Gary is an award winning cartoonist and every week he draws an original creation just for Fortis Institute. They're sharp, they're funny, and they usually make a point that sticks with you a little bit longer than you expected it to. And something else you'll find at Fortis Institute is Fortis News, which is hosted by yours truly. These are up to the minute headlines that matter to Christians and they're told from a biblical worldview. There's no spin, there's no agenda. It's just the news with a Christian perspective. And both of these things part of what we're building in Fortis Institute and both are made possible by our Gospel partners. If you have been helped and you appreciate the content that we're creating at Fortis Institute, would you consider supporting us so that we can reach more people in more places all over the world? It's really simple. We know you have questions. So we have [e-mail] wretched amazing grace amazing Gospel.

[Todd Friel]

Books of the Bible the Gospel of Matthew is an account of the life of Christ written by one of Jesus disciples. Matthew's gospel shows Jesus as the promised Messiah, God's anointed king and Saviour. When you hear of the kingdom of heaven, remember that there is no kingdom without a king. Only those who bow before Jesus will enter his kingdom. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Michael Horton]

Well, let's just see how deep we can dig this hole. This is Wretched Radio. There are individuals these days who are gaining friends, they are growing in popularity that are desiring to see the nation behave better. Do you want that? I do. I do. We have agreement. We affirm together it's better when people behave better than when they behave worse. The question of course is what is the Christian role and goal in that endeavor and how does that happen? It is my firmly fixed belief it only comes through the propagation of the gospel, the regeneration of sinners, and that should be our goal and expectation. Anything else is less. Anything else is. I also think to miss the point and the purpose of the church. There are many people who are saying, no, God's laws, they're always good, they're always better. I agree with that. But can we say that a nation must adhere to the Mosaic laws? And I believe the answer to that is, well, what do you mean by do they need to be adhere to Mosaic? Should they? Yes. And I'm talking about the moral laws. I'm not talking about ceremonial laws, I'm talking about moral laws. Should countries follow God's precepts? Yes, they should. And things will be better for them. But the question is, can we say to our country that you must be following the Mosaic covenant? And I believe the answer to that is no. Why? Because there's a difference of entity. America is not Israel. Israel was a very specific geopolitical entity. The church is not. The nation of Israel was land bound. The church is not. The church is international. Israel is national. We're building the church. We're not nation builders. We're not nation builders, we're church builders. We populate God's kingdom. And does it have an impact on this kingdom here, the small K kingdom? Yeah, but that isn't why we should be trying to make people think or behave more Christianly. We should be seeking their salvation to populate the church. This is why missionaries used to go go because they wanted to see God's church filled, not necessarily yes, they wanted better for people, they truly did. But it came from regeneration, not imposition. The aforementioned article that I was citing, the church spans the globe and includes people from every tribe, language, people and nation. That is a significant change from what the relationship of the Mosaic Law was with the nation of Israel. America is not Israel. Furthermore, this does get tricky, doesn't it? The nation of Israel was intended to be a moral people. You were basically born into a culture that was so Jewish. But that doesn't mean that they were just supposed to behave Jewishly and just obey. God still wanted their heart. We see that all throughout the Old Testament. He wanted their heart. He didn't just. He hated their sacrifices. Your phony sacrifices. I hate them. I detach. I think there's an application there for cultural Christianity. If God hates the sacrifices of people who don't really love him, do you think that he loves the behavior of people who don't love him, even when they're behaving better? Detest it. He wants hearts, not just behavior. And when he does want the behavior, it is an overflow of what is going on inside of the heart. That is why, as we see this movement continue to grow, I do believe we need to have a clear distinction of the law and the gospel. Consider how complicated this is. Are we going to really have the government enforce all of the Mosaic Law, 613 of them, or just the ones we prefer? Which one of the two tablets? Both of the tablets. So we are going to enforce that God should be first in your life. Are we going to have blasphemy laws? That is what some are seeking, that the laws of Moses are imposed upon the people. But the first tablet of the law is all about heart loving God. Yeah, there are morality laws. And yes, it is good that our government says you can't murder, you can't steal. Love it. Are we going to enforce coveting rules, laws? By the way, we discovered that you want your neighbor's car, you're going to jail. How do we do this? We're not Israel. And the Mosaic Law is not intended to be the government system for every nation. It was intended to be the governing system for that particular nation. Let me take you to culture wars. The good and the bad. This from nine Marks Ministries, a first century historian. For the Christians are distinguished from other men neither by country nor language, nor the customs which they observe. For they neither inhabit cities of their own, nor employ a peculiar form of speech, nor lead a life which is marked out by any singularity. They look like anyone else following the customs of the natives in respect to clothing, food, and the rest in their ordinary conduct, but dwell in their own countries simply as sojourners. This is a letter 1st century historian. As citizens, they share in all things with others and yet endure all things as if foreigners. They marry and raise families like everyone else, but they do not destroy their offspring. They have a common table, but not a common bed. They are in the flesh, but they do not live after the flesh. They love all and are persecuted by all. They are unknown and condemned. They are put to death and restored to life. They are poor, yet make many rich. They are evil spoken of and yet are justified. They are reviled and blessed. And the letter concludes, no one can explain why they hate Christians so much. It's because of their behavior. That's exactly what First Peter is all about. Which, by the way, we're done with an Alpharetta Bible church. Yep. All done with First I can't decide what book to do next, Jimmy. It's driving me bonkers.

[Jimmy Hicks]

You know, I've got a really simple idea.

[Michael Horton]

Okay. What comes after First Peter I'm thinking about it. I am thinking about it.

[Jimmy Hicks]

Yeah.

[Michael Horton]

First Peter Here's. Here's the challenges out there. Second Peter Challenges in here. Yeah, I'm thinking about it.

[Jimmy Hicks]

Yeah.

[Michael Horton]

But. Okay. But here's. Okay. I think it's good to know one's limitations. And I. And I've actually got some. I know, I know that's a shock to myself and nobody else, but I've got them. I always want to make sure in preaching that Jesus Christ is exalted. And because the book labors so long in false teaching, I'm wrangling with, how can I exalt Christ without just manipulating the text to get there? Because even if we do a great series on false teaching and how to be a correct Berean, if we aren't loving the Lord Jesus more, and I'm not sure that I, with my limitations, I'm sure other men can. That I can, with my limitations, can actually go about the business of accomplishing that in 2 Peter. So I'm not sure otherwise. Maybe I like Titus.

[Jimmy Hicks]

Titus.

[Michael Horton]

Yeah. No. You want a book that's Christ exalting Colossians?

[Jimmy Hicks]

Absolutely.

[Michael Horton]

There's your Christ exalted, and we might do that, by the way, I love that idea because I believe that if a sermon doesn't accomplish, if it doesn't lift up Jesus, then you might as well be giving a TED Talk. Aristides, Marcus Aurelius Tutor, attacked Christians as Unpatriotic and impious men of Palestine who did not respect their betters. Hence Christians were mad, perhaps even atheists. Others, like a Municius Felix, false Christians. You do not go to our shows. You take no part in our processions, which were always loaded with paganism, by the way, the parades, sort of like the parades in Seattle and San Francisco, loaded with paganism. Why don't you participate? You're not present at our public banquets. You shrink in horror from our sacred games, which again, loaded with paganism. So Christians were persecuted because they were considered antisocial, because they were behaving differently than they were. And so that is the history of the early Church that exploded. Why? It is because people saw the behavior of Christians. They saw them take the heat and they desired to know about the hope that lied within them. And they were able to proclaim the excellencies of Jesus Christ and the Church was built. They did not desire to impose their moral values on Roman society. That would have been a fool's errand, by the way, and it still is today. The idea that we are going to somehow impose Christian values on people. Good luck with that. And I do mean good luck with that. This is. Peter didn't write to people who are being persecuted in Northern Turkey to tell them to become nationalists, taught them how to endure so that people would see it and take note of it and desire to know what it is that motivates them to behave in such a manner. And that happened. It actually happened. And the Church grew. Nations do not exercise saving faith. Nations aren't regenerated. Nations can't be justified and adopted and sanctified and glorified. But individual Christians can. And that is why this is the quote from the article from 9 marks about culture warriors. The good and the bad. When nations assume a sacred status and mission, they assume a demonic character. There was never a Holy Roman Empire. Identifying Christ with any nation today risks blasphemy. Christ identifies himself with the holy nation of the Church, who is comprised of people from where? Every tribe, every tongue, every nation, we build Christ's kingdom. And until tomorrow go serve your King.