Bible Belt “Christianity” Without The Gospel

Summary

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Wretched Radio with Todd Friel

Episode: Bible Belt “Christianity” Without The Gospel
Date: May 27, 2026
Location: On-site interviews at Georgia Tech (Witness Wednesday)

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OVERVIEW

This episode explores the state of "Bible Belt Christianity"—nominal faith existing apart from the true message of the gospel. Host Todd Friel conducts on-campus street interviews at Georgia Tech, engaging students and passersby in candid conversations about faith, morals, and salvation. Throughout the episode, Friel illuminates common misconceptions, exposes the thinness of cultural Christianity, and presents the biblical gospel, emphasizing both the gravity of human sin and the radical mercy offered in Christ.

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KEY THEMES & DISCUSSION POINTS

1. Christianity in the Bible Belt—Form without Substance

• Nominal Belief: Many participants identify as Christians or hold some religious background, yet struggle to articulate core Christian beliefs (e.g., why Jesus matters, what the gospel is, or the meaning of Easter).
• Cultural Christianity: The “Bible Belt” moniker denotes an assumed religious backdrop, but conversations reveal superficial understanding and confusion about salvation.

Todd Friel [19:04]:
“If Jesus isn’t first in your life, it would be safe to say that you still are not following him. Is that correct?”

2. Common Misconceptions about Christianity

• Good Person Standard: Interviewees frequently argue that being “good” is enough for God.
• Rules & Restrictions: Christianity is dismissed as an arbitrary set of outdated or restrictive rules, especially regarding personal behaviors (e.g., smoking, sexuality).
• Vagueness on Salvation: There’s uncertainty—even among self-identified Baptists and Catholics—about who goes to heaven, why, and what the basis of assurance is.

Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic) [03:25]:
“Yeah, I think I’m a good person.”
Todd Friel [03:32]:
“What if the standard…is the Ten Commandments?”

Interviewee 3 (Baptist) [18:00]:
“I hope I go to heaven, but you don’t know for sure.”

3. Gospel Presentation & Exposing Legalism

• Law and Guilt: Friel employs “good person” tests with Ten Commandments—lying, stealing, lust, honoring parents—to demonstrate universal guilt.
• Analogy of Authority: The severity of sin is explained by the one sinned against (e.g., lying to a child vs. lying to the government or to God).
• Judgment and Mercy: Being “born again” and trusting Christ for salvation—not mere rule-following or good-deeds—are presented as the true message and hope of Christianity.

Todd Friel [05:54]:
“Committed the same crime four times, but each time the punishment increased. My crime was the same, the punishment was different. Why? What changed in the scenario?”
Interviewee 1: “Authority.”

Todd Friel [07:57]:
"You’ve just heard the rules. You’ve just heard the laws which are there. You’ve just heard about hell, which is there, and sinners go there. But God is rich in mercy and he wants to save sinners. It is his desire to save a guy like you."

4. Handling Doubt, Skepticism, and Pluralism

• Postmodern Relativism: Several respondents reduce religion to “what works for you,” deny exclusive truth claims, or see paths to God as equally valid (e.g., Buddhism, Catholicism).
• Subjective Spirituality: Some describe a personal, undefined connection with a higher power outside any tradition or church.
• Evidence for Faith: Friel contends that Christian faith is not “blind”—it rests on historical events and eyewitness accounts.

Interviewee 5 (Catholic) [46:18]: "I’m not saying Catholic’s the right religion. I’m just saying it works for you. It works for me.”
Todd Friel [46:41]:
“That would make you a postmodern.”

5. Clarity of the Gospel Message

• Repentance and Faith in Christ: The genuine gospel—Christ’s substitutionary atonement and resurrection—is contrasted with mere religious observance or moral striving.
• Assurance of Salvation: Friel urges hearers not to rely on ritual or heritage but to “examine yourself…see if you are in the truth.”

Todd Friel [24:23]:
"It’s not just about formal prayers. It’s about actually knowing the living God, your creator and maker, who will judge you…or who will forgive you this day if you will call out to him and put your trust in his son."

6. Encouragement to Believers and Church Leaders

• Don’t Assume the Gospel: Friel repeatedly admonishes pastors, parents, and Sunday school teachers to clearly articulate the good news; many “church kids” know rules or morality, but not Christ.
• Self-Examination: Both interviewees and listeners are encouraged to “read Romans” and reflect: Do I know Christ, or just Christianity?

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MEMORABLE MOMENTS & QUOTES

(with approximate timestamps)

• On Cultural Faith:

  • [03:06] "It’s not really that I’m truly an atheist... I just don’t really, like, bother with it. Like, I don’t think that much into it, like, if he really exists. And just, like, I feel like I’m not gonna go to hell if I don’t believe in him." —Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)

• On Legal Guilt:

  • [05:54] “My crime was the same, the punishment was different. Why? What changed in the scenario?”... "Authority." —Todd Friel & Interviewee

• On Assurance:

  • [17:57] "I mean, I hope I go to heaven, but you don't know for sure." —Interviewee 3 (Baptist)

• On Postmodern Religion:

  • [46:18] "I'm not saying Catholic’s the right religion. I'm just saying it works for you. It works for me." —Interviewee 5 (Catholic)
  • [46:41] "That would make you a postmodern…" —Todd Friel

• On the Gospel:

  • [10:11] "That’s the good news of Christianity. God is angry at sinners... He delights in saving sinners. And in order to do that, he sent his son to take the punishment you deserve." —Todd Friel

• On Self-Examination:

  • [25:15] “Open it up and see if what I'm telling you is true. Because it doesn't matter what I say. What matters is, what does the Bible say and is it true? So crack open that Bible and start reading the book of Romans.” —Todd Friel

• On Facing Claims of Christ:

  • [50:09] "Why do you suppose he would make such a statement?" (Jesus: I am the way, the truth, the life...) —Todd Friel

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TIMELINED SEGMENT GUIDE (Key Content Timestamps)

| Timestamp | Segment | Highlights | |-----------|-----------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:08 | Opening Dialogue on Masculinity | Men, church, “warriors,” and engaging culture | | 01:34 | Witnessing Encounters Start | Interview with nominal Christian/Atheist (smoking, morality, Ten Commandments) | | 08:31 | Friel Explains Law & Gospel | Explains analogy of authority, why sin is serious | | 15:00 | Second Witness: Cultural Baptist | “Why be a Christian?” “Go to heaven?”—reveals confusion, lack of gospel | | 19:00 | The “Good Person” Test | Ten Commandments walkthrough (lying, stealing, lust, honoring parents) | | 24:23 | Gospel Clarity; Assurance of Salvation | Born again, repentance, daily relationship, assurance in Christ | | 29:39 | Non-religious/Spiritual Interview | “Why not religion?” “Connection with God through the world”; law applied | | 35:59 | Law, Justice, and Forgiveness | God as Judge vs. God as Parent; necessity of justice | | 43:55 | Field Notes on Openness to Discussion | Friel's observations on people’s willingness to talk about religion | | 45:00 | Catholic/Postmodern Encounter | Relativism (“works for you, works for me”), postmodernism explained | | 48:25 | Crossover Interview: Belief & Doubt | Belief in God, syncretism, Jesus’ exclusivity, evidence, faith not blind | | 54:06 | Gospel Invitation & Self-Examination | Call for personal reflection, repentance, faith in Christ alone |

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EPISODE TAKEAWAYS

• Superficial Christianity is pervasive, even in the “Bible Belt.”
• Most respondents default to morality or ritual, not repentance and faith in Christ.
• The gospel must be clearly articulated: sin, judgment, Christ’s atonement, personal faith.
• Religion, pluralism, and relativism are often adopted as ways to avoid the exclusive claims of Jesus.
• Pastors, parents, and Christian leaders must not assume young people know the gospel—clarity is critical.
• Assurance comes not from “working on it” or rituals, but from faith in Christ’s finished work.

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PRACTICAL CHALLENGE FROM TODD FRIEL

[25:15]
“Open [your Bible] up and see if what I’m telling you is true…crack open that Bible and start reading the book of Romans.”

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FINAL REMINDER

The episode ends with Friel’s urging:
Examine yourself. Don’t settle for a form of religion—repent, turn from your sins, and trust Jesus Christ alone for salvation. This is the good news, and it’s for everyone—Bible Belt or not.

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Transcript

[Todd Friel]

Hi, this is Todd Friel, executive Director of Fortis Institute. Before we get to the podcast, might I encourage you to please join us in not retreating? Perhaps you've noticed in your news feed a lot of pressure on Christians to retreat. Whether it is in the form of legislation, in persecution, or just outright bias, we are determined to stand firm, not water down the truth, and continue to make resources to that encourage and equip the saints to defend and share their faith. We also love to support and undergird local churches, and we are determined to do so. And right now, we have a matching gift campaign, which means if you join us now as a gospel partner, your gift will double. Would you please consider joining us on our mission as we are determined to not retreat? Fortisinstitute.org donate.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Wretched radio begins in 3, 2, 1.

[Todd Friel]

If there's one common thread, it might be that men perceive church as too feminine. We have to be aggressive in the

[Jimmy Hicks]

world when it's appropriate.

[Todd Friel]

We are warriors. One, two, three warriors.

[Jimmy Hicks]

You are a real man when you commit to study God's word and you commit to being conformed and transformed into the image of Jesus Christ. That's the biblical perspective on being a man.

[Narrator/Announcer]

It's time for Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Todd Friel]

Well, it is Witness Wednesday at Georgia Tech. Okay, I'm gonna ask this kid something. We'll see if I'm just dopey. Young man, I got a question for you on the radio. All right. Where are you from?

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

Georgetown. Yeah, I know, but Marietta.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. Your nationality. You look like you're Chinese. Korean. Okay, so you're Taiwanese. Now, there are about four or five guys who look like they were from the East. And you're all smoking cigarette. And I couldn't help but observe the only ones smoking cigarettes seem to be people who are somewhere from the Far East.

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Is smoking is my observation just kind of off the charts?

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

No, no, I mean, I'm sure there's. There's been observations made all around the world that says that Middle Eastern people are more. Tend to more smoke more than Western people.

[Todd Friel]

Is that right?

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

Yeah. I mean, if you know the body exhibition, you know how those. All the bodies are Asian people and you see their lungs are all black, so.

[Todd Friel]

Huh. That's kind of goofy. Okay, so you're from Marietta. You are not yourself from Taiwan. Your parents Taiwanese?

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

Yeah, my parents are Taiwanese.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. What religion are you?

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

Christianity. Well, kind of atheist, actually, to be honest. My mom is Christian.

[Todd Friel]

I see. And they're not here. So you're kind of atheist?

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Why?

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

I don't know. I just.

[Todd Friel]

So you can smoke cigarettes?

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

No, I mean, if you're Christian, you can still smoke cigarettes. I don't think it's such a big deal, but.

[Todd Friel]

All right, why are you. Let me guess. You kind of grew up going to church as a kid, but then you went away to school and things kind of changed. Well, the scientific stuff kind of convinced you.

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

Well, yeah, and also because. Just influence from my friends, to be honest. Like, it's not really that I'm truly an atheist, just so much that I don't really, like, you know, bother with it. Like, I don't think that much into it, like, if he really exists. And just, like, I feel like I'm not gonna go to hell if I don't believe in him. So I don't know.

[Todd Friel]

Really? Cause you think you're a good person?

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

Yeah, I think I'm a good person.

[Todd Friel]

By what stand?

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

Well,

[Todd Friel]

what if the standard, my young smoking friend, is the Ten Commandments? Do you think that you would be going to hell then?

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

No, I don't think I'd be going to hell.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. How come? Have you kept the Ten Commandments? Yeah. Have you ever told a lie?

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

I guess I have, but to be honest, I think just. I don't know, I just think that, you know, everyone can lie. I mean, it's something that everyone does

[Todd Friel]

and it's true, but it's still irrelevant. Yeah, right. If a criminal said, judge, everybody else fill in the blank. The judge would say, don't care, you're standing before me.

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

Everyone's going to hell. So I guess I'll join the party then.

[Todd Friel]

Well, if it is a party, but if you break the laws, then wouldn't that make you a guilty criminal? Like stealing or lusting or not honoring your parents or blaspheming God's name?

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

Yeah, I guess so.

[Todd Friel]

Everybody would be going to hell. But that doesn't concern you?

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

Well, that's not how I choose to believe in God. That's. That's actually kind of the reason why I don't believe in the Christianity that people believe in. Like, they believe in strict you have to follow 10amendments or you go to hell. I think it's more like loosely based.

[Todd Friel]

But that's not what Christianity teaches.

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

It's not. I mean, like I said, I'm not Christianity.

[Todd Friel]

But you should know what it is before you're rejected. Christianity does teach that if you break the laws, you do deserve hell. But that seems reasonable, doesn't it?

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

I feel like lying in Some part like is not. I feel a. There's certain degrees of lies, you know, people tell.

[Todd Friel]

That's an interesting perspective. But a more important question is not how do I perceive my lie telling. The question is how does God perceive lying? That's a much more important question. Let me share an analogy with you. Follow along with this. Okay. I have kids. If I lie, let's say to my son, what's going to happen to me, his daddy?

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

That's f. It depends on what kind of lie you say.

[Todd Friel]

Whatever it is, you pick the worst lie you can imagine. What's going to happen to me? Absolutely nothing. Cause he's an 11 year old kid and he is. He has no power.

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

Yeah, well, it's all based on morals.

[Todd Friel]

All right, but nothing's gonna happen to me is the point. Right now if I lie to my wife, what do you suspect might happen to me?

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

She might get a little mad and

[Todd Friel]

I might be sleeping on the couch. Now let's say I lie to my boss. I could be fired. Yep. Okay. Now something's happening here. Do you see the progression?

[Interviewee 2 (Religious skeptic/Christian in progress)]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Now let's say I lie to the government. There's a name for that. It's called treason. I could be put in jail. Now here's the situation. Follow along. Ok. Committed the same crime four times, but each time the punishment increased. My crime was the same, the punishment was different. Why? What changed in the scenario?

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

I guess authority.

[Todd Friel]

That's right. The one against whom I committed the crime. If I commit a crime against a kid like lying, it's no big deal. But the government is big and it's powerful and it's a big deal if you lie. And it is a sin against God himself, who's above governments, who controls the universe. All of a sudden we start to realize why the Bible would teach all liars will have their part in a lake of fire. Because your crime, young man, isn't just against the person you lie. It's primarily against the creator of the universe. And because he is so big and so holy and so esteemed, your crime is worthy of infinite punishment because it was committed against an infinitely holy God.

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

But I'm not lying to God.

[Todd Friel]

Sure you are.

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

So when.

[Todd Friel]

All right, it's not like you're telling him the lie, but it's one of his laws. Okay? Like when you speed the judge who gives you the ticket you didn't commit speeding against him. He's the enforcer of the law.

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

Okay?

[Todd Friel]

God is the enforcer of the laws. So when you tell a lie, you've broken one of his laws.

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

Oh, I guess.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah, right. So now you can understand why hell at least would be reasonable. It's not that our crimes are so amazingly stupendous, like you've probably never murdered anybody, but you have been angry at somebody and you've called people names or you flipped them off. So you've been angry inside of your heart and inside of your head. And God sees what's going on there and that's a violation of his principles. And because it is against his laws, against his character, and because his character is so big and holy, the punishment is worthy of eternal punishment.

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

Yeah, I mean, this is exactly the reason why I'm kind of atheist, because I feel like Christianity is based so strictly on rules. This is my personal view. Obviously, if you're a hard Christian, you wouldn't agree with me. I just feel like he wouldn't make us just to put rules like this on us. I feel like Christianity is based upon restricting yourself from what your biology, you know, like, you know, we like to have sex and stuff like that. Like if we smoke. Yeah, we smoke. We like it. I feel like Christianity is based upon a rule just to like restrict all that.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, well, let me ask you this. You went to church as a kid, right? Yeah. In a succinct sentences, you can create what is the good news of Christianity?

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

The good news of Christianity, it gives people hope.

[Todd Friel]

Why?

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

Because they feel like just something greater to life. No, that's what I got.

[Todd Friel]

Specifically, why would you as a Christian have hope? There's got to be a reason. Otherwise it's a placebo, I guess.

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

So they have set of morals. Like people won't. I don't know the answer.

[Todd Friel]

What is Easter? I don't know. Dude, this is why your understanding of Christianity is skewed. You've just heard the rules. You've just heard the laws which are there. You've just heard about hell which is there, and sinners go there. But God is rich in mercy and he wants to save sinners. It is his desire to save a guy like you. But there's a little problem here. You're a guilty criminal and God is good and he'd like to demonstrate mercy on you. But if a judge let a guilty criminal go because he's just being a nice guy, is that a just judge who lets bad criminals go? No, that's a bad judge who lets guilty people go. But if somebody would step into the courtroom and pay the fine or take the penalty for the guilty criminal, then the judge could Say, I can set you free because justice has been satisfied. Your fine has been paid. So your situation is you're guilty before God, the judge, but somebody has paid your fine for you. Who paid your fine so that you don't have to go to hell?

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

Yes, if you're a Christian. I guess Jesus did.

[Todd Friel]

That's right. That's the good news of Christianity. God is angry at sinners, there's no question about it. But God delights in saving sinners. And in order to do that, he sent his son to take the punishment you deserve.

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

Yeah, I guess.

[Todd Friel]

That's amazing. Yeah, that's shocking good news. I mean, that's as if Jesus lived your life and was punished for it, and you get to exist as if you lived his life. It's the great exchange where you can have your sins forgiven. Yeah, but just so you can go, but, dude, that's the rest of the story. And before you render a verdict on Christianity, you should know that that's the good news. And your decision about it should be made on understanding it fully that God wants to save a sinner like you. He sent his son, Jesus to die for you. And now you must repent and put your trust in him. And God promises if you will do that, all of your sins, your wrongdoings will have been paid for by Jesus. You will be set free, you will be adopted as his child, and you will go to heaven based on the good work of Jesus. That's the good news of the gospel. So as you scoot off and relight that heater that seems to have gone out, dude, ask the question. Is what this stranger said to you true? That's the big question as you walk away.

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

I mean, the stuff you're saying is

[Todd Friel]

based on Christianity, but is it true? Because if it's true and you die, you're going to hell. But if it's true, you could also be forgiven and rescued from your situation because of the goodness of Jesus. So that is either true or false. So make that determination what it is. Okay? Think about it today. Fair enough. All right. You're a gentleman. Thanks for the time. Appreciate it. Goodbye. See ya. How many kids do you suppose like that go to church? Well, at least he heard about the laws and hell. That's pretty good. But he never heard the gospel. This is a reminder to all of us. Do not assume Pastor. Don't assume it with your flock. Sunday school teacher. Don't assume it with the kids and mom and dad. Don't assume it with your very own children. We are at Georgia Tech. It's a Witness Wednesday. This is Wretched Radio.

[Narrator/Promoter]

No Retreat. That's the name of Fortis Institute's Spring

[Jimmy Hicks]

Match campaign, and here's why.

[Narrator/Promoter]

The culture we live in right now has made it pretty clear it has very little interest in the true gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. We're being told to keep our faith quiet in public or to soften what we believe so it goes down easier.

[Jimmy Hicks]

Fortis Institute has no intention of doing either one.

[Narrator/Promoter]

We exist to advance the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, and this spring we're doing it as loudly and as boldly as we know how. Your gift will help launch two new podcasts. It puts Todd Friel's new book, Go Serve youe King, into print through HarperCollins. And it puts the gospel back onto college campuses where it's least welcome and most needed. Our goal is $250,000, and we're asking if you would prayerfully consider helping us get there. You can find out more right [e-mail]

[Jimmy Hicks]

donate

[Todd Friel]

perhaps you've been wondering, is there a Christian university that isn't woke or that hasn't compromised on important biblical doctrines like, you know, the Age of the Earth? There is. It's the Master's University in Southern California. Beautiful campus. All of the athletics and activities that you've come to expect from universities. But it's more than that. The academic programs are most excellent. Preparing students for the future. The Washington Post just said number six for preparing students for the real world. All that plus the Master's University isn't woke and it is thoroughly biblical. Would you like to learn more? I encourage you to visit the Master's University at Masters. Edu Wretchedmasters. Edu Wretched.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Know your church fathers. Cyprian was a third century theologian from Carthage, North Africa, where he served as bishop until he was beheaded under Emperor Valerian. Cyprian authored a book called on the Unity of the Church, stressing the unity of the universal church as well as the importance and authority of the local church. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Todd Friel]

This is Wretched Radio.

It is Witness Wednesday. I am at Georgia Tech. Hey, why are you staring at me?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

I'm looking at that, actually.

[Todd Friel]

It's a. It's a radio device. Will you talk to me on the radio for a minute?

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

Yeah, sure.

[Todd Friel]

Where you from, young man?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

I'm from here.

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

Georgia.

[Todd Friel]

You're from Georgia?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Very cool. The Bible Belt. The what? This is the Bible Belt. You've never heard that term?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Oh, no, I don't know what that is.

[Todd Friel]

The Bible Belt. In America, this is like, the most Christian part of the country is the south, so they call it the Bible belt.

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Oh, okay.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah. You've never heard that term?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

No, I never heard this.

[Todd Friel]

Are you a. Are you a Bible belter? Are you a Bible guy?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

I'm a Christian.

[Todd Friel]

You're a Christian? Yeah. Okay, I want to ask you a favor then, my Christian friend.

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Okay.

[Todd Friel]

Tell me why I should become a Christian.

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Why you should become a Christian? Because it's the right thing to do. The Bible says so.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, but why should I? What's in it for me?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

What's in it?

[Todd Friel]

What do I get out of this deal? Because right now, let's say I'm a Muslim and I'm very content.

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Okay?

[Todd Friel]

Is the Bible still the right thing?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Are you saying the Quran is wrong?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

I'm saying it's not the Bible.

[Todd Friel]

Are you saying it's wrong?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

It's wrong.

[Todd Friel]

I don't have a machete on me. You can tell me.

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Wrong. Like there might be some. It might tell you to do some things that are good, but it teaches

[Todd Friel]

that Jesus is just a prophet and he didn't die on a cross for your sins. Is it wrong? Okay, so why should I become a Christian again?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Why you should become a Christian?

[Todd Friel]

Yes. You were gonna tell me why?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Oh, yeah. Because you want to follow the teachings and go to heaven.

[Todd Friel]

You know why?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Why?

[Todd Friel]

Yes.

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Oh, because you don't want to go to hell. That'd be kind of weird.

[Todd Friel]

Why would I go there? I'm a good guy.

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Oh, well, you're still not following what the Bible says, though.

[Todd Friel]

What does the Bible say?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

You have to worship God.

[Todd Friel]

I do. In my own way.

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

In your own. I don't know if that's gonna cut

[Todd Friel]

it, you know, why not? Are you one of those judgmental people?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

No. No, actually. Very open.

[Todd Friel]

Is God judgmental?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Very.

[Todd Friel]

Is he. Is God okay with people being Buddhists and Hindus and Muslims?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Is he okay with it? I think, like worshiping a God that isn't God, I don't think he's okay with that.

[Todd Friel]

So anybody who's worshiping the wrong God, what happens to them when they die?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Oh, I mean, you're asking somebody who's not. I didn't. I mean, I know you go to hell, That's.

[Todd Friel]

You go to hell?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Yeah. I mean, you're not gonna go to heaven.

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

All right.

[Todd Friel]

How come?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

How come?

[Todd Friel]

Yeah. Where are you going when you die?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Where am I going?

[Todd Friel]

Yeah.

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Oh, I can't say for sure. Where I'm going.

[Todd Friel]

Really?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

I thought Christians could.

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Well, yeah, but, you know, I can't predict it. Well, right now, at this very moment,

[Todd Friel]

if I die, this car somehow gets picked up, it kicks into gear, runs you over, you're splat. What's good? Where are you going?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

I mean, I hope I go to

[Todd Friel]

heaven, but you don't know for sure.

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

No.

[Todd Friel]

What kind of a Christian are you?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

What kind of a Christian am I?

[Todd Friel]

What stripe? What flavor?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Flavor?

[Todd Friel]

Yeah. Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, Mormon. Did I just say that? What are you doing?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

I'm a Baptist.

[Todd Friel]

You're a Baptist, so don't Baptists believe that they are going to heaven for sure when they die?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Yeah, but I'm slowly getting there, you know. Yeah. So working.

[Todd Friel]

Slowly getting there.

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

So working. It takes time for me.

[Todd Friel]

I don't understand that. What do you mean you're slowly getting there?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

My family wasn't religious that much, but

[Todd Friel]

I'm trying to figure it out.

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Figure what out? Being Baptist, I'm not trying to figure it out. I'm trying to, you know, I'm slowly, like, fully coming into myself about the Bible, about following the seasons. I'm.

[Todd Friel]

If I asked all of your friends to get together and I asked your friends and your family what the most important thing is in your life, what would they say?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

In my life? Oh, my family.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. They wouldn't say Jesus?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

No. They'll probably say my family.

[Todd Friel]

Okay.

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

All right.

[Todd Friel]

So if Jesus isn't first in your life, it would be safe to say that you still are not following him. Is that correct?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

All right, fair enough. Okay. So how does somebody become a Christian?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

How do you become one?

[Todd Friel]

Yeah.

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

You have to follow the teachings of God. You have to worship him.

[Todd Friel]

The Ten Commandments. How many. How many of the Ten Commandments do you think you've kept? I think I've kept, Yeah.

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

I can't say for certain.

[Todd Friel]

How many lies have you told in your life?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

In my life. Can't keep track.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. How many things have you stolen in your life?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Stole? Yeah, stole when I was younger.

[Todd Friel]

Well, it doesn't matter when it happened. So you've stolen something and that dishonored your parents, so you have broken the commandment of honoring your father and mother.

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

Correct? Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

All right. How many times have you taken God's name in vain? You know what that means? To use God's name in a low sort of way? Just to use it as a curse word? Omg. Have you ever done that? Use the name of Jesus in kind of a loose way? All right, let you figure that out. Okay. How many times do you think that you have lusted after a woman? Today?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Today?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

Yep.

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

I don't think I have today.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah, but it's early. But you've done that, correct?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Before.

[Todd Friel]

Ever?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. Because Jesus said you don't have to commit the physical act of adultery. You just think. And God's got you tagged because he sees your heart. Same thing with anger. He sees you as a murderer at heart. Because it's not just what we do, it's what we think.

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Are you a Christian?

[Todd Friel]

Yes, sir, I am. But this might help you figure something out. Alright, so let's say today is the day that you die and the books are opened on your life and God knows how many times you've taken his name in vain and how many times you've lied and lusted and you've coveted things that didn't belong to you. He knows it all. Would God see you as being innocent or guilty?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Oh, I would be guilty.

[Todd Friel]

Alright, so you're a guilty man. What should God do with a guilty person like you? Send you to heaven? Send you to hell?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Well, guilty people don't go to heaven,

[Todd Friel]

so I guess that's right. So you'd go to hell? Yeah. All right, so we've resolved something today.

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Oh, well, assuming I didn't pray this morning and tell God forgive me for all my sins and.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, all right, so what are you saying?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Oh, I'm still gonna. I didn't do that this morning.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, let me give you some good news. Jesus said that unless a man is born again, he will not see the kingdom of God. You've got to be born again. And you might be, but you're just confused about some things. Okay? Being born again means when you get to that point in your life, when you realize, I am not a good person, I'm a bad man, and I've sinned against the only true God. And I'm sorry. And I'm going to turn from my sins and put my trust in Jesus. This is crucial because Jesus is the one that allows you to be forgiven because he's the one who took the punishment that you deserve. That's what Jesus was doing on this earth. Keeping all the laws that you've broken, taking the punishment that you deserve. God punishing his own son on your behalf. So all of your bad sins were put on Jesus and all the goodness and the punishment that he took can be credited to your account. So you can be forgiven completely all of your sins, past, present and future. And you don't need to repent every five minutes to be forgiven again and again. You need to call out to God for mercy, turn from your sins, put your trust in his son, and he promises if you will come to him, he will not cast you out. He will forgive all of your sins and grant you everlasting life. And then you'll wake up in the morning saying, thank you for giving me another day. Thank you for your forgiveness. Thank you for your mercy. I'm sorry for the bad things that I do. I have been a disobedient child, but I'm still your child. Thank you for adopting me into your family. And then you go about your day glorifying God. You live your life with him in the center of it. So the question is, have you been born again? Did you get to that point in your life where you called out to God, turn from your sins and put your trust in his son for the complete forgiveness of sins?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

No, I haven't gotten there yet. Like I said, it's like a. I'm slowly getting there. Eventually I'll be.

[Todd Friel]

Let me encourage you to hurry it up, okay? Because having some form of religion, just saying some prayers in the morning, it's not what God is looking for. He's not looking for a hat tip first thing in the morning. And then you go about living your life any way you want to. He's looking for you to realize, wow, he's good. He sent his son to die for me. I want to follow that God. You turn from your sins and you put your trust in His Son fully and completely. And then all of your sins will be forgiven and your guilty conscience will be cleansed and you'll know that you are his child. So if that hasn't happened to you yet, make sure that you examine yourself. See if you are in the truth. Make your calling and election sure, don't die in your sins, don't die with some form of religion, but without having a relationship with your savior. Am I making sense to you?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Oh, yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. Because that's what Christianity is about. It's not just about formal prayers. It's about actually knowing the living God, your creator and maker, who will judge you, you in righteousness and send you to hell, or who will forgive you this day if you will call out to him and put your trust in his son. All right, so I'm not your judge. I'm walking away. Examine yourself and dude, if you aren't saved, if you aren't born again, remember this is an offer of kindness. Jesus died for you. A sinner. Call out to him. Turn from your sins. It doesn't mean you become perfect. But you've got a new attitude about your sins. You don't want him anymore. You want him instead. And he says, then I'll save you. Until then, you're an enemy of God. But he will make you a friend because of what Jesus did on your behalf. Do you have a Bible?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, open it up and see if what I'm telling you is true. Because it doesn't matter what I say. What matters is what does the Bible say and is it true? So crack open that Bible and start reading the book of Romans. Can you remember that?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

All right. Read the book of Romans and you're going to realize, wow, God's actually got a plan to save me. He's got a way to forgive me. He's a good God. He's a saving God. I'm a bad man and he's a good God. And he will make me his child. That's a good deal. Read the book of Romans. All right. All right. Hey, I'm glad we bumped into each other. Goodbye. See you, fellow had the most quizzical look I've ever seen. Same thing goes for you. Read the book of Romans. Repent. Trust his son. This is Wretched Radio

[Jimmy Hicks]

and it's now time for your daily Fortis News Breaker production of Fortis Institute. House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries and the NAACP have a new plan to fight Southern redistricting and it runs straight through college football. You may have heard this already, but court struck down congressional maps in states like Alabama earlier in the year. Now they're urging top black high school athletes to boycott SEC schools, places like Auburn and South Carolina, until those states redraw the maps the way Democrats want them to. From there to a sobering report on how casually we now end an unborn life. A new study from the Charlotte Lozear Institute, the research arm of Susan B. Anthony Pro Life America, found abortion pills can be ordered online about as easily as a package from Amazon, shipped into all 50 states, including the most pro life ones. And most sellers ignore federal safety rules entirely. When killing an unborn child becomes a two day delivery, you start to see just how far we've drifted. Canada, meanwhile, has found a new low. The national post reports a 55 year old male man with Crohn's disease and depression was approved for the country's assisted suicide program. And the doctor assessed him for a lethal injection in a parking lot outside of a Tim Hortons. That same doctor once botched an assisted death by forgetting one of the drugs. And as punishment, a verbal warning and six months of supervision. Look, offering to kill a man in a donut shop parking lot instead of treatment for depression is not mercy. It's predatory. Closer to home, a grieving mother is putting a face on the cost of open borders. 18 year old Sheridan Grace Gorman, a freshman at Loyola University in Chicago, was shot and killed earlier in March while walking along a pier with friends hoping to see the northern lights over the skyline. The suspect, an illegal immigrant from Venezuela. At an event with Congressman Mike Lawler, her mother, Jessica, told the country that at every step the system had a chance to stop him. And at every step, it failed. Chicago, remember, is a sanctuary city. And her plea to other mothers was simple. Remember Sheridan's face and support leaders who put American children first. And that same fight is reaching your tax forms. Reuters reports the Internal Revenue Service is weighing a checkbox on next year's return, asking whether you're a non citizen or hold dual citizenship, part of tying federal agencies to immigration enforcement. Critics call it intimidation. Supporters call it basic accountability for who's collecting benefits. The administration is also turning on the lawyers, directing its attorneys to scrutinize immigration counsel accused of coaching migrants to lie on their asylum claims. The Justice Department just wore in its largest class of immigration judges ever after firing more than 100 who'd been granting asylum nearly half the time. Asylum was built for genuine refugees, not for a memorized script. And that wraps up today's Fortis newsbreak. I'm Jimmy Hicks. If you want more, you can download Fortis plus or sign up to become a Fortis Insider for exclusive daily content. Both. Both can be [e-mail] and don't forget, you can subscribe to Fortis News on your favorite podcast app in order to

[Narrator/Promoter]

get these updates daily. And until tomorrow, go serve your king.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Books of the Bible the Book of Isaiah is a collection of prophecies given to Isaiah. It can be divided in two parts. Isaiah delivered bad news to Israel and the surrounding nations concerning God's judgment. And he delivered good news of salvation for those who repent. Isaiah also offers detailed prophecies concerning the coming Messiah, who offers eternal salvation. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Todd Friel]

This is Wretched Radio. It's Witness Wednesday at Georgia Tech. Hello. Hey. Well, as long as you're walking this way, can I talk to you on the radio?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

Sure.

[Todd Friel]

Course. Cool. I got a question for you. Okay. What religion are you?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

I don't Practice religion actively.

[Todd Friel]

You don't?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

I do not.

[Todd Friel]

I couldn't tell from looking at you.

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

Okay.

[Todd Friel]

There's no way to tell. How come you don't practice any religion?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

Because I feel like my connection with God doesn't need to come through a church or a synagogue or a temple. It can come through the world around us.

[Todd Friel]

And who is your God?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

I mean, how can you possibly define that?

[Todd Friel]

Well, I was just kind of following you, your cues a little bit. You said that you don't think that in order to commune with God. So I thought maybe you had some sort of a definition for who your God is.

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

I mean, I would say that God is just a greater being that helps us be better human beings.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. Does he have a name?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

No.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. And why does he want us to be better human beings?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

I mean, sort of like a parent wants their child to be better.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. And what happens if we're not better?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

Like a child, you get disciplined, but God still loves you.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. Is there any ultimate punishment, spanking, penalty for being a naughty child?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

I mean, who can really know or say?

[Todd Friel]

I don't know.

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

I don't have the right answer to that.

[Todd Friel]

Have you been a naughty child or a good child?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

Depends on your definition of naughty or good, doesn't it?

[Todd Friel]

What do you think it is?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

I think I've been a good child. But I. I would say that a lot of people would consider. Or not a lot of people, but there are definitely people who consider that I've been not good.

[Todd Friel]

Let's try the Ten Commandments.

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

Okay.

[Todd Friel]

Are you familiar with those?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

Yes.

[Todd Friel]

Thou shalt not lie. Yep. Have you done that?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

I mean, everybody's told at least a white lie.

[Todd Friel]

Oh, I don't care what color you call it. I agree.

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

I definitely strive to be honest at all. At all times.

[Todd Friel]

But you failed.

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

Yeah, definitely.

[Todd Friel]

Have you stolen anything in your life?

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

Life?

[Todd Friel]

Hmm.

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

That's a good question. Not that I can think of off the top of my head.

[Todd Friel]

Candy money from your parents, downloading music.

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

I have downloaded music? Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

And told your boss you worked eight hours when it was really seven and a half?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

No, not done that.

[Todd Friel]

All right, good on you for that. But you've stolen something, right? Okay. How many times do you think that you are naughty as a child to your parents, to your earthly parents?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

A good amount. I was an actor.

[Todd Friel]

You were a kid.

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Like everybody else.

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. How's about purity of thought? Your thought life, Lusting sexual thoughts and desires about somebody you're not married to?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

Yeah, I definitely have done that.

[Todd Friel]

You've definitely done that. So not so much a pure brain, right?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

Definitely. But I. I mean, that's another. I mean, that's a difference that I have with Christianity, that I don't think that that's necessarily a bad thing.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, all right. You think it's a good thing?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

I think it's not. I think everybody does it.

[Todd Friel]

It could be natural, but that doesn't make it good.

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

I mean, I don't think it's inherently wrong. I think that there are wrong ways to go about it.

[Todd Friel]

You know how I learned in a practical way that that's a bad thing? She had daughters. And the thought of some guy having thoughts like that about my daughter or my wife, for that matter, does not make me happy. I think there's just something about it that, let's face it, we kind of know. That's why we don't share the. Those thoughts. I mean, imagine this. Let's say I put a computer chip behind your ear and recorded every thought that went through your brain for one week.

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

Right?

[Todd Friel]

And I pulled everybody together, and we put that little computer chip into a big projector, and we could see all of your thoughts on the big screen.

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

Right.

[Todd Friel]

What do you think everybody would think about that?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

I mean, I think that if you did that to pretty much anybody.

[Todd Friel]

I don't disagree. I agree. No, me too, dude. I agree. It would take a very big screen for my little chip. Okay. But yours too, right?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

Right.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. So based on that standard, you really haven't been a good child, have you?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

Based on the Ten Commandments, no. That's why I said I would say that. A bunch of people consider that I haven't, but I don't. I mean, that's. I mean, I don't believe in the Ten Commandments.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, but let's say that the God who created you does believe in the Ten Commandments. Then it's kind of irrelevant what we think.

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

Well, true, but. But there's no possible way to know. And so he might not care. He might.

[Todd Friel]

What about your conscience? That little thing inside of your brain that goes, oh, that wasn't good.

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

Yeah, I've definitely done things that I've thought that about. But the. The key is to strive to not have those things happen.

[Todd Friel]

Let's just say, because we were talking about, like, a final judgment day or a justice system where naughty children got punished, Right? If you would be classified as a naughty child because you've broken God's laws, what would he do with you? Would he reward you or punish you?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

I mean, how I mean, I don't know, but either way, I accept responsibility for my life choices because I've actively made them. And that's my, I mean, that's how I was raised.

[Todd Friel]

Which is a manly thing to say. But let's just back up for a second.

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

Okay?

[Todd Friel]

I think we can say what God would do with another child. Wouldn't a God who is a good parent punish and discipline a naughty child? Isn't somebody who's just.

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

But, but I mean, you can be just. And you can also be forgiving and loving.

[Todd Friel]

That's interesting. But here's a problem though. Let's say that there's a judge who's sitting on your court case. No. Think of somebody you really don't like. Okay, yeah, that guy's really a guilty criminal bad dude standing before the judge and the judge says, look, you are so guilty and you should be punished. But I'm good and I'm gonna let you ago. What would you think about a judge who simply turned his back to justice and let a criminal go?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

Okay, there's a difference between a judge doing that and a parent or a God doing that.

[Todd Friel]

I understand, but it's a pretty reasonable analogy. What would you think?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

But like going back to when I was a kid and I got in trouble, which I did, my parents punishment wasn't to spank me or to, I don't know, whatever other punishments you could. It was go to your room and sit there and think about what you've done wrong and what you can do to not do that wrong again. And when you're ready to come out of your room and you think you've made peace with your mistake, then you can come out. And so that's, that's a way that I was being punishment punished. I was learning from my mistakes, but I wasn't being harmed or being they, they were still showing compassion.

[Todd Friel]

Do you think if anybody who breaks the law should ever be punished?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

Oh, yes.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. So rapists and murderers, yeah, they should definitely be punished. Okay. Now if the standard of God goes beyond rape and murder, and let's say his standard is purity of thought and truth coming out of our mouth. So lying and lusting would be crimes before God and he should punish them.

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

But you're still associating God as a judge, whereas for me, I still associate him as a parent. And so a judge has a duty towards justice. They have to.

[Todd Friel]

But don't you think God does? So God's gonna let go rapists and the murderers go?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

I think that God, he might Punish them. But I don't think he has to send them to a hell or to a.

[Todd Friel]

Well, that's a little bit different. But don't you think it's good that God sees all the crimes that are happening, keeps tabs on it, so that someday they aren't gonna be cold cases? He's gonna deal with them, and they're gonna get what they've destroyed. Wouldn't that be good?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

I think that you're talking about a form of revenge, and I think that revenge is not.

[Todd Friel]

Revenge is if you're just angry and spiteful and doing it to get even. But if a crime has been committed, justice demands punishment. All right, now, you were saying that you disagree with the Christian thing because of that, right?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

Mm.

[Todd Friel]

There's more to the Christian story than just people going to hell.

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

I understand that. And I think that there are some extreme truths in the Bible, but I think that reading it as a fact or reading it as, okay, this is exactly what we have to believe is not true. Because the Bible wasn't written directly by God. It was written by man. And so there is room for inspired

[Todd Friel]

men to write his word down. What does that word say?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

The Bible says that God says that, but I haven't talked to God, so I don't know that that's true.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, so what does the Bible say God did so you don't have to go to hell?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

He sent his son to forgive us

[Todd Friel]

for his sins because punishment is due to you and me. Justice had to be served. Jesus took the punishment. You've broken God's laws. Jesus paid your fine so that the just judge of all the world can release you, forgive you, set you free, because your fine has been paid by Jesus. Here's my last question for you. Is it true that Jesus Christ has died? Who came to this earth to die for you, a sinner?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

How could I possibly know that? I wasn't alive 2,000 years ago.

[Todd Friel]

Okay? You should figure it out somehow. You're a smart guy. You're studying here at Georgia Tech. Get your sleuthing shoes on and figure this out. Because if what Jesus said is true, there's going to come a day of judgment where he's going to judge you, and he'll give you what you've deserved for the lying and the lusting, and it won't be a good day for you. His judgment will be thorough. Every thought, every deed done in darkness, every word you've ever uttered, everything you failed to do, every time you breathed air and didn't say thank you for using his air. He's going to give you what you purchased for yourself. But it also claims the Bible says that Jesus Christ is God himself who died to forgive a sinner like you. Okay? That's what it teaches. Because if this is true, right now you're in big trouble. But if it's true, there's also good news that you can be forgiven. Now, the big question remains, though. Is what I'm saying to you true or not? Because if it's not true, go about your merry way. But if it's true, then you're walking around with God's wrath aimed at your noggin.

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

I mean, I guess that's true, but I think that it's not so black and white as that because there could be a spectrum.

[Todd Friel]

My challenge is the same. Figure out if it's true. Okay. The Bible presents him as a real black and white kind of God Lusting in your brain is adultery of the heart. It's more than black and white. It's more intense than we can imagine. So if it's true, you're in a world of hurt right now. But forgiveness and mercy is available because God is kind.

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

I mean, I find it hard to believe that even you, for example, have never lost. Dude.

[Todd Friel]

Dude, Absolutely. Okay. Bigger sinner than you. But I'm a forgiven sinner and you're not. Okay? I'm willing. I'll step into the front of the light as the chief of sinners. But I've been forgiven and you haven't. That's the difference.

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

That's not necessarily true. I think that God could forgive me whether I go to church or not, whether I believe in Jesus or not, whether I'm Muslim or Jewish or.

[Todd Friel]

See, that doesn't work because Jesus said that he's the only way. He's the only truth. And all the other world systems are wrong. Which is another audacious statement for me to make. So figure out if it's true. Okay. All right. All right. Hey, thanks for the chat.

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

No problem.

[Todd Friel]

Sorry, I'm a little sweaty. Goodbye. It's Witness Wednesday. This is wretched Radio Conflict.

[Narrator/Promoter]

That's not an it. If in your life that's a win, you will most definitely disagree with your spouse, your kids, your coworkers, your in laws, maybe all of them in the same week. The question is whether those disagreements turn your home into a war zone or something you can actually resolve. That's what our resource conflict is all about. Todd Friel, who admits he's an expert in conflict, mostly because he's caused so much of it. And Dr. John street will both challenge you to respond in ways so radically Biblical that even the people you've been fighting with will take notice. They'll walk you through biblical reconciliation step by step so you can actually heal what's been broken. If you're exhausted from the same arguments on repeat, if your home feels more like a battlefield than a refuge, there is a better way. And it's not another self help technique. It is Scripture Conflict is streaming right now on Fortis for free. Just download the app on your smartphone, on your smart tv, or simply go to Fortis. Hey, thanks for listening to Wretched Radio today. You know what's rare? Finding something that makes you laugh and makes you think at the same time. And that's why we've brought in Gary Varvell. Gary is an award winning cartoonist and every week he draws in an original creation just for Fortis Institute. They're sharp, they're funny, and they usually make a point that sticks with you a little bit longer than you expected it to. And something else you'll find at Fortis Institute is Fortis News, which is hosted by yours truly. These are up to the minute headlines that matter to Christians and they're told from a biblical biblical worldview. There's no spin, there's no agenda. It's just the news with a Christian perspective. And both of these things part of what we're building in Fortis Institute, and both are made possible by our Gospel partners. If you have been helped and you appreciate the content that we're creating at Fortis Institute, would you consider supporting us so that we can reach more people in more places all over the world? It's really simple. We know you have questions, so we have [e-mail] wretched amazing grace amazing Gospel Should Christians drink? What about tattoos? Is it okay to send your kids to public school? Or does homeschool make you holier? And don't even get started on worship styles? That's ended more friendships than Monopoly. Here's the thing. Christians love to argue about stuff the Bible doesn't actually command or forbid. And when we do, we fracture over things that shouldn't divide us. That's where Christian liberty comes in. It's a teaching series with Todd Friel, Phil Johnson and Ty Blackburn, all walking you through one of the most neglected and most misused doctrines in all of scripture. And when you actually understand Christian liberty, you stop majoring on minors. You learn to disagree without dividing. You grow in wisdom and maturity and have Genuine love for other believers who see things a little bit differently than you do. Christian Liberty is streaming right now for free on Fortis. Just download the app where you download apps on your smartphone, your smart TV, or just simply go to fortisplus.org.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Hermeneutics A vital part of biblical hermeneutics is an understanding of genre. One genre we find in scripture is narrative. Narratives tell us of real events with real people in real places at a real time. Not everything we read in narratives is condoned by God, but everything we read is part of God working out his plan for the world. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Todd Friel]

It's Witness Wednesday. This is Wretched Radio at Georgia Tech. The construction continues and we're talking to pretty much anybody. Have you noticed something that I just kind of inadvertently been doing? Kind of stumbled into it? What I'm asking people is, what religion are you? What religion are you? And nobody's looking at me like, how dare you talk about such a taboo subject. The good news is, said this last week, at least that old canard isn't being used anymore. Well, we can't talk about religion. It isn't an issue at all. You can walk up to pretty much anybody you want to right now and just ask them, okay, is it fireproof? No, it's not perfect. Somebody might go, oh, that's kind of personal. Okay. But overall, have we not been hearing something a little bit different? That people are willing to talk about it. So don't be scared of that. People are willing. Even with a rather crude introduction like this one. There's a guy walking toward me and I'm going to test my new little theory here to see if you can just ask somebody what their religion is. Hey, hey, man, while you're walking, could I walk with you and talk to you on the radio?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Sure.

[Todd Friel]

Cool.

What's your first name?

[Interviewee 5 (Catholic)]

Kevin.

[Todd Friel]

Kevin, what religion are you?

[Interviewee 5 (Catholic)]

I'm Catholic.

[Todd Friel]

Could you please tell me why I should become a Catholic?

[Interviewee 5 (Catholic)]

It's not. I'm not, by the way, what's a

[Todd Friel]

Catholic doing in the Baptist Bible belt?

[Interviewee 5 (Catholic)]

I was born and raised in Michigan.

[Todd Friel]

There you go. You're a transplant Catholic. All right. So convert me. Would you tell me what must I do to become Catholic and why? Why?

[Interviewee 5 (Catholic)]

I'm not much of a preacher.

[Todd Friel]

Why are you a Catholic?

[Interviewee 5 (Catholic)]

It's a mindset. I mean, I believe in God.

[Todd Friel]

Why?

[Interviewee 5 (Catholic)]

Because we have to be on this earth for some reason. I mean, the purpose of humans is

[Todd Friel]

to be,

[Interviewee 5 (Catholic)]

you know, it's not a self fulfilling Life that we live, it's more of a, you know, giving of ourselves to others for a purpose. And I. I found that in the. In the Catholic faith.

[Todd Friel]

So why should I become a Catholic?

[Interviewee 5 (Catholic)]

I'm not telling you to be.

[Todd Friel]

I'm asking ya.

[Interviewee 5 (Catholic)]

I don't know if you. If you feel the same way as the same things that I just said,

[Todd Friel]

then could I not find that, though, in Buddhism? No, you could.

[Interviewee 5 (Catholic)]

I'm not saying Catholic's the right religion. I'm just saying it works for you. It works for me.

[Todd Friel]

I'm guessing you're a postmodern. Do you know what that is?

[Interviewee 5 (Catholic)]

No.

[Todd Friel]

Postmodern is somebody who says something like what you just said. You can believe one thing, I can believe something completely different. They can even be completely opposite, but they're both valid truths because the of. That's what we believe. Yeah.

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

That would make you a postmodern. Okay, so if I made a statement like I believe that Jesus is the only way, the only truth, would you agree or disagree with that?

[Interviewee 5 (Catholic)]

I would have to disagree.

[Todd Friel]

That's what Jesus said.

[Interviewee 5 (Catholic)]

Well, I mean, some people, different. Different forms. Jesus are in different religions.

[Todd Friel]

The one in the Bible said, I am the way, the truth, the life. That's what he said.

[Interviewee 5 (Catholic)]

That's the Catholic version.

[Todd Friel]

And that's not the right version for me.

[Interviewee 5 (Catholic)]

It is for you not.

[Todd Friel]

All right, dude. Enjoy your day. See you. Let's just take that little worldview and apply it to reality, shall we? Try that. Try that the next time you stop at the Starbucks and tell them that your truth is that everything's free today. Give that one a run, boy. I gotta tell you, truly, one of the most clever schemes of the devil has got to be this postmodern mush. That's this kid right here. Hey, young man. Young man, while you're walking, can I talk you on the radio for just a moment?

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

Fine.

[Todd Friel]

You're fine. Does that mean no? All right, thank you. That's. That's a better answer. Don't be all mushy. Don't be all namby pamby. I'm fine. Just let your yes be yes. I might. I might win the twisted scripture award. And your no be no. Let's see if my theory is true, that you can simply just blurt out and ask people what their religion is like with this fellow right here. Hey, young man, I'll switch directions. Can I ask you a question on the radio?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Sure.

[Todd Friel]

Dude, you need some sunblock on your cheeks. You're getting baked, you know that? I do dude, you got a voice. You got a sort of kind of that Barry White rumbler going on. People tell you that, don't they? They do. They ask you if you're in radio. They do. Have you thought about it?

[Interviewee 2 (Religious skeptic/Christian in progress)]

I have.

[Todd Friel]

Don't do it. Trust me, don't do it.

[Interviewee 2 (Religious skeptic/Christian in progress)]

All right.

[Todd Friel]

What religion are you? Christian, Question mark.

[Interviewee 2 (Religious skeptic/Christian in progress)]

I don't know.

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

I have.

[Interviewee 2 (Religious skeptic/Christian in progress)]

I have a really different look on religion. I don't really want to identify myself with one thing.

[Todd Friel]

Okay.

[Interviewee 2 (Religious skeptic/Christian in progress)]

But I do want to at least believe that there is a God.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, so who do you think that God is?

[Interviewee 2 (Religious skeptic/Christian in progress)]

No idea.

[Todd Friel]

You wouldn't call it the Christian God?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

No.

[Todd Friel]

So then you're probably not a Christian.

[Interviewee 2 (Religious skeptic/Christian in progress)]

Oh, I don't know if I'd say that. Either every religion, or every major religion at least, has some same story with the floods, all the people, they're all connected in some way. I feel like.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, but if I were, let's say, a Buddhist, but I didn't believe in the teachings of Buddha, you'd go, well, dude, you're not a Buddhist? Yes. So you say that you're a Christian, but you don't follow Jesus Christ, right?

[Interviewee 2 (Religious skeptic/Christian in progress)]

Well, no, I do.

[Todd Friel]

You do?

[Interviewee 3 (Christian, Baptist)]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

But I thought you said you didn't. No, I do.

[Interviewee 2 (Religious skeptic/Christian in progress)]

I just think that every other religion has their own type of Jesus. Does that make sense?

[Todd Friel]

Okay, how's about Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, the life. Nobody comes to the Father but through me, basically claiming every other religious worldview that does not name the name of Jesus Christ. That God, man from Galilee is wrong. That's what he said. Do you agree with Jesus

[Interviewee 2 (Religious skeptic/Christian in progress)]

then? Yes. I better start changing my views.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. Why do you suppose he would make such a statement?

[Interviewee 2 (Religious skeptic/Christian in progress)]

I guess I can't really say because I'm not Jesus, but probably because the Ten Commandments. No idols before me.

[Todd Friel]

Very good. Have you kept the Commandments?

[Interviewee 2 (Religious skeptic/Christian in progress)]

Yeah, for the most part. I mean, we're not all perfect.

[Todd Friel]

I agree with that. How many have you kept?

[Interviewee 2 (Religious skeptic/Christian in progress)]

Most of them haven't murdered anyone yet.

[Todd Friel]

Jesus said if you're ever angry with somebody, you're in danger of the judgment, that you're a murderer at heart. The Bible says. Have you ever been torqued at somebody driving down the road, flipping them off?

[Interviewee 2 (Religious skeptic/Christian in progress)]

Yes, I have.

[Todd Friel]

So you're a murderer at heart. Lusting makes you an adulterer at heart.

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

True.

[Todd Friel]

Not worshiping the true God, the only God, and understanding him right, rightly would make you an idolater.

[Interviewee 5 (Catholic)]

True.

[Todd Friel]

Have you told lies in your life? I have stolen anything

[Interviewee 2 (Religious skeptic/Christian in progress)]

not From a store.

[Todd Friel]

We're gonna get killed. Move over to the sidewalk. Doesn't matter where you steal it from. Have you stolen anything?

[Interviewee 2 (Religious skeptic/Christian in progress)]

Yes.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. I'm trying to find a commandment that you kept here. Have you ever taken God's name in vain? I have. Dishonored your mom and dad when you were a child.

[Interviewee 2 (Religious skeptic/Christian in progress)]

Yes.

[Todd Friel]

Kept the Sabbath holy. I have kept.

[Narrator/Promoter]

Kept the Sabbath holes.

[Todd Friel]

So you have honored the Sabbath day the way the Bible expresses it and commands it your entire life?

[Interviewee 2 (Religious skeptic/Christian in progress)]

Not every time.

[Todd Friel]

Alrighty. Coveting. I think that's our last one. Have you ever desired something that didn't belong to you? I have. Dude, you broke all ten. I know it. All right. Who is the sacrifice as the payment for your sins against God?

[Interviewee 2 (Religious skeptic/Christian in progress)]

Jesus.

[Todd Friel]

Jesus Christ died for you. A sinner.

[Interviewee 2 (Religious skeptic/Christian in progress)]

Yes.

[Todd Friel]

His goodness. He kept all the laws that you couldn't keep. He was punished by the Father on your behalf so that your sins could be forgiven. If a man or woman will repent and put their trust in him and him alone, God will forgive all of their sins and cleanse them completely and grant them everlasting life. Correct?

[Narrator/Promoter]

Yes.

[Todd Friel]

Now, when Jesus makes the statement, I am the way, the truth, the life, in that context, does it not make more sense that he would go to the trouble of dying for you, a sinner, as the only sacrifice sufficient to satisfy the wrath of the Father? And when we say, well, it's okay, doesn't matter what you believe in, that would probably make him angry.

[Interviewee 2 (Religious skeptic/Christian in progress)]

Probably. So, yeah.

[Todd Friel]

So you're a Christian? I am. And you've repented and put your trust in Jesus and him alone?

[Interviewee 1 (Atheist/Christian skeptic)]

I have.

[Interviewee 2 (Religious skeptic/Christian in progress)]

But I guess I gotta work on

[Todd Friel]

it a little bit, huh? Depends on what you mean by that. What do you think that means? You gotta work on it.

[Interviewee 2 (Religious skeptic/Christian in progress)]

Probably need to follow my faith a little better.

[Todd Friel]

Why do you think you should?

[Interviewee 2 (Religious skeptic/Christian in progress)]

Well, in all honesty, it's blind faith. You can never prove anything with fact, especially the existence of Christ or God. So it's just blind faith. So if you have the faith, you have, and if you don't, you don't? I guess.

[Todd Friel]

Well, I don't think it's blind. I think you got a Bible. Eyewitnesses who saw Jesus beaten and killed and rise from the dead.

[Interviewee 2 (Religious skeptic/Christian in progress)]

True, but we can't ever verify the facts.

[Todd Friel]

Sure you can. You got eyewitness accounts that wrote it down. I know.

[Interviewee 4 (Spiritual but not religious)]

Don't.

[Todd Friel]

I don't know what more you need than that.

[Interviewee 2 (Religious skeptic/Christian in progress)]

I mean, eyewitness accounts are only as good as the eyewitnesses themselves. And who's to say that they were even there.

[Todd Friel]

Well, they said it. And in order for them to just make that up, if it weren't true, they would have to have been the most wicked men in the entire world. But there's no evidence of that. They were men who saw him, saw the miracles, saw him die, saw him rise from the dead, wrote it down so that you could know that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God and have eternal life do I'm gonna start walking the other way. So we're done. But I'm not the judge of your eternity or your heart. But Jesus said that unless you're born again, you will not see the kingdom of God. It basically means you get to the point where you agree he exists. It's true. I've been very bad. I haven't kept the commandments. I've broken each and every one of them. And I'm sorry because I deserve your wrath. And I'm sorry. And you turn from them, not in perfection, but with a new attitude. And you put your trust in Jesus and Him alone, forsaking any other concepts of God. When you do that, when you humble your he says, I will lift you up, I will save you, I will adopt you, I will forgive all of your sins. Then you go about trying harder if you will, because you're grateful not to earn your way or to get your way, or to keep your way, but because of what he has done for you. The offer of the gospel is an offer of kindness. God died to save you, a sinner. Nobody's ever done anything that kind for you. And so if that's the case, you should repent, turn from your sins and put your trust in Jesus. And you will happily follow him all the days of your life. Because he is good. So examine yourself. The Bible says, see if you're in the truth. I don't know. Your parents don't know. Your pastor doesn't know. You know if you are really God's child right now.

[Interviewee 2 (Religious skeptic/Christian in progress)]

That was very good.

[Todd Friel]

Alright, see you. Thank you. Goodbye. Until tomorrow. Go serve your King.