Can You Reject Hell… and Still Follow Jesus?

Summary

Podcast Summary: Wretched Radio with Todd Friel

Episode Title: Can You Reject Hell… and Still Follow Jesus?
Date: August 5, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode of Wretched Radio, host Todd Friel takes his “Witness Wednesday” format to the Georgia Tech campus, engaging in street-level conversations with students about Christianity, the doctrine of hell, justice, faith, and salvation. The central theme explores whether someone can reject the concept of hell and still faithfully follow Jesus, as Todd tests and clarifies common misconceptions and theological nuances through spirited dialogue with students from diverse religious backgrounds. The episode maintains Friel’s signature blend of directness, humor, and theology, aiming to challenge listeners (and passersby) to consider the consistency and consequences of their beliefs.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Logic and Justice of Hell

• Friel initiates multiple conversations highlighting why Christians believe hell exists, focusing on God’s justice.
• He reasons that, just as society punishes wrongdoing for justice, divine justice is necessary for God to remain good and perfect.

Notable Quote:

“So you should love the idea of hell. People break God's laws... that is the right punishment... They sin, they break the commandments, they lie, they steal, they should get punished.”
— Todd Friel (07:00)

• Friel interacts with Jason, a self-described Christian from India, challenging the belief that hell is “too harsh” or unnecessary by drawing parallels between earthly and heavenly justice.

2. Faith, Belief, and Selective Christianity

• Jason admits to being partially agnostic, partially believer, and not accepting some parts of the Bible, especially those concerning condemnation and hell.

Notable Exchange:
Todd Friel (05:50): “Which parts do you believe?”
Jason: “The stuff that condemnation. You see, everyone has their way to God, so it doesn't necessarily mean believe in the Bible, then get to God.”

• Friel contends that cherry-picking beliefs without grappling with the full biblical message weakens the foundation of faith.

3. Degrees of Sin and Salvation

• Students raise questions about the gradation of punishment ("gradients") for wrongdoing—are all sins equally deserving of hell?
• Friel responds with classic Christian theology: all have sinned and thus none are entitled to heaven. There may be degrees of punishment, but “suffering for forever” (16:20) is still “rotten” for all.
• Jason suggests possible post-hell redemption but Friel counters, “according to the Bible, it’s too late.” (16:41)

4. The Need for Mercy and the Offer of Salvation

• Beyond justice, Friel stresses God’s mercy:

“God is also kind and he's merciful and he's loving. But he can't just let you go because if he just lets you go...he hasn't upheld justice.” (20:40)

• He presents the gospel as a unique, gracious solution: Jesus, both fully God and man, takes the punishment on behalf of sinners, offering forgiveness and righteousness to those who repent and trust in Him.

Notable Quote:

“Not only will you be seen as forgiven, you will get his righteousness credited to your account. You will be seen as just before God.”
— Todd Friel (21:56)

5. Responses from Differing Worldviews

Agnostic and Nominal Christian (Jason)

• Jason appreciates the “good news” but grapples with doubt and the “advantage” of disbelief in accountability:

“Say you don't believe in it and say this is all not true. Or say that God doesn't exist. ...I can conveniently forget about it.” (23:36)

• Friel counters, arguing that apathy or uncertainty is not a safe state:

“If you are not for him, you're against him. And right now, you're against him because you're sitting there all squishy.” (25:54)

Atheist (Preston)

• Friel encounters Preston, an atheist who jokes about being judged for his lack of belief.
• Preston articulates a moral, scientific worldview and doubts the Bible’s divine origins.
• Friel leads Preston through the Ten Commandments to expose universal sinfulness and reasons that if God exists and is just, hell would be deserved.

Notable Exchange:
Todd Friel (37:17): “What would be the right thing for God to do with you? Take you to heaven or send you to hell?”
Preston: “Well, I feel that if God is such a glorious and wonderful, loving God that he'll look back and see, well, Preston's only ever stolen candy... he's actually a pretty decent person.”
Todd Friel: “A criminal is standing before a judge, and he doesn't think that his crimes were that big. Does it matter? No, what matters is what the judge thinks.” (38:24)

Hindu (William)

• William, a Hindu, shares a pluralistic upbringing and describes reincarnation and karma.
• Friel explains that biblical Christianity claims no one is good enough for heaven; only through Jesus’ sacrifice is forgiveness possible.
• William is unconvinced, regarding substitutionary atonement as “cheating,” though Friel positions it as grace and mercy.

6. Cultural and Religious Comparisons

• Friel explores religious diversity among Indian students and contrasts major world religions’ views on the afterlife with Christianity’s claim to exclusivity and assurance.

Notable Quote:

“You should determine what's true, because they're not all true. They can't be, because they contradict each other. Jesus says, I'll save you by grace. The other ones say, work.”
— Todd Friel (54:52)

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Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• On Picking and Choosing from the Bible:
  “So you don't believe the Bible?... Just the stuff you don't like.” — Todd Friel (05:46)
• On Universal Guilt:
  “That's what Christianity teaches. That you're a sinner like me and those people behind us. And that God judges everything about us.” — Todd Friel (51:55)
• On the Gospel’s Offense and Appeal:
  “It's not [fair]. But it works out to your advantage. You're right. It's not fair that he took the drubbing that you deserve. He took the punishment for you. But it's good and it's kind and it demonstrates his love and his goodness.” — Todd Friel (53:45)

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Timestamps for Core Segments

• [00:34] – Introduction and campus setup
• [01:00-09:32] – Jason: Indian Christian, selective beliefs, justice, and the doctrine of hell
• [14:56-23:05] – Deeper with Jason: hell, gradients, God’s justice, gospel, response to the message
• [30:07-40:53] – Preston: American atheist, secular worldview, morality, accountability, gospel reasoning
• [44:35-54:57] – William: Indian Hindu, pluralism, afterlife comparison, karma vs. grace

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Podcast Tone and Style

• Direct and Dialogical: Todd Friel isn’t shy in challenging assumptions or pushing for clarity, using humor and Socratic questioning.
• Engaging and Relatable: Student interviews are casual, often peppered with jokes about campus life, sports, and cultural references.
• Theological and Persuasive: Friel repeatedly brings discussions back to the Christian message, seeking to correct misunderstandings and urge urgent personal response.

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For Listeners

This episode offers a candid snapshot of spiritual conversations in today’s pluralistic environment. Friel’s approach demonstrates how Christians might articulate hard doctrines like hell and justice, while contrasting them with other religious and secular perspectives. Whether you’re a believer wanting to share your faith or someone exploring big questions about sin, punishment, and salvation, this episode lays out both the challenge and hope at the heart of Christianity.

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“It never gets old. ...But there’s good news.” — Todd Friel (55:02)

Transcript

[Todd Friel]

Wretched radio begins in 3, 2, 1.

Evolution is more than a theory. It is a fundamental scientific principle. You know, there's a scientific term for that. It's called baloney. We are so stupid that we think that just because telephones and computers and cars are intelligently designed, that means we are too. Well, we're not.

[Jason]

I don't trust that Richard Dawkins.

[Todd Friel]

In the beginning, God created heaven and the earth is the only logical explanation. Unless you don't want to believe in science and logic.

It's time for Richard Radio with Tod Friel.

We're here at Georgia Tech. Hey, do you know which direction the library is? You're a freshman, aren't you? Yeah. Alrighty. Thanks very much.

[William]

Okay.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah. See then I thought I could sound all smart with the kid. Did you find the library yet? You got two different directions. All right. Hey, while you're walking to the library, maybe we'll find it together. Could I talk to you on the radio for a moment? What are you here to study, young man?

[Jason]

I'm here to study industrial engineering.

[Todd Friel]

Industrial. Where are you from?

[Jason]

I'm from India.

[Todd Friel]

Tell me, what is the religious climate like in India? What do people. Is it mostly Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, Christian? What's going on in India?

[Jason]

It's a healthy mix.

[Todd Friel]

Why is it healthy?

[Jason]

Well, okay, it depends on which state you're coming from, but I come from South India. South India is a lot more peaceful. You don't have.

[Todd Friel]

And progressive, isn't it?

[Jason]

It's progressive religion wise and not development wise.

[William]

But.

[Todd Friel]

How long have you been in the States?

[Jason]

A couple of days.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. Do you come from a. Of means? Are they. Do you. Do you ever lack food?

[Jason]

No, we don't. We don't.

[Todd Friel]

What about most people in southern India?

[Jason]

Southern India is a lot more. Well, they're well to do, most families.

[Todd Friel]

Is it like living in the States?

[Jason]

No, I mean when we say well to do, we don't. We're not scrounging for food, but we just about manage. But it's not. Your basic standard of living is totally different.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, how many in a house for a tip? Typical Indian. How many bedrooms do they have?

[Jason]

I would say if you have three, that's luxury.

[Todd Friel]

That's luxury home.

[Jason]

Luxury.

[Todd Friel]

And bathrooms?

[Jason]

Bathrooms? Typically two.

[Todd Friel]

And that would be luxury level.

[Jason]

That would be good. Most houses have two, maybe three. The third is.

[Todd Friel]

All right. And what about things like boats and toys and games and fun and televisions?

[Jason]

Well, the more the modern families out there who've have one professional in the house, toys and boats are more essential for them, for the kids. But otherwise it's not really valued. So kids will probably have one or two basic toys. Okay.

[Todd Friel]

Now, when have you been into downtown Atlanta yet?

[Jason]

Not yet. Not yet.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. Well, you can see the skyline in a big city, and you will see some people who are homeless. Not a lot, but you'll see some people who are homeless. I would say maybe depending on what area in. You'll see a few.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

What about in India? Do you see a lot of homeless?

[Jason]

We do. We do. There is a lot of that, but it's more up north in North India and central India, I guess. Yeah. I've done quite a bit of travel.

[Todd Friel]

I'm a Christian, and I've been told that in India there are a lot of these people who come from the States to India and they preach that if you come to Jesus, you'll get wealthy healing. And there's these huge crusades that happen over there. Have you seen those?

[Jason]

I have. I have.

[Todd Friel]

And what is your impression of those?

[Jason]

It's not exactly bad to preach your religion and try conversions, but sometimes it gets a bit annoying, but very rarely, they stay within limits.

[Todd Friel]

And what religion are you?

[Jason]

I'm a Christian.

[William]

Okay.

[Todd Friel]

So what do you think about. Come to Jesus. You'll get rich. You'll get healed.

[Jason]

Getting rich? I don't know. Getting healed? Yes.

[Todd Friel]

You believe that?

[Jason]

I believe that.

[Todd Friel]

Physical healing?

[Jason]

Physical healing, yeah.

[Todd Friel]

So everybody who's a Christian should be physically healthy?

[Jason]

Well, I hope so.

[Todd Friel]

But they're not, though.

[Jason]

That's a belief at least. If not physical, at least, you know, you believe in something, and if you do, you're gonna get healthy. Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. So people will get out of a wheelchair because they believe.

[Jason]

Oh, no, that's too far off.

[Todd Friel]

That's too much healing. So they've got to have a lot of faith to get healed?

[Jason]

Well, I know miracles do, but I don't know.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, but that's not what you said. You said if you've got faith, you'll be healed. I know, I know.

[Jason]

I'm hurting myself a little. Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. What is the gospel?

[Jason]

It's the word of God.

[Todd Friel]

You're right. But what is the good news? What's the message? That is good news.

[Jason]

Hold on to your belief.

[Todd Friel]

Why?

[Jason]

Because at the end of the day, you've got to believe in something.

[Todd Friel]

I don't think I do. Don't have to. I know some atheists that are pretty happy and they're healthy. They don't. They're not in a wheelchair.

[Jason]

Atheists. Atheists agnostics are fine. In fact, I'm partly agnostic, part believer. Yeah, that would be me.

[Todd Friel]

So you partly believe, you partly don't. Okay. So what happens to somebody who doesn't believe in Jesus?

[Jason]

Well, they're not condemned as heretics in India.

[Todd Friel]

But what about in the Bible?

[Jason]

The Bible, I mean, it says, yeah, you will go to hell.

[Todd Friel]

Do you believe that?

[Jason]

No, I don't believe that.

[Todd Friel]

So you don't believe the Bible?

[Jason]

I don't believe everything the Bible says.

[Todd Friel]

Which parts do you believe? Well, you're honest, so which parts do you. Just the stuff you don't like.

[Jason]

The stuff that condemnation. You see, everyone has their way to God, so it doesn't necessarily mean believe in the Bible, then get to God.

[Todd Friel]

Well, everybody has their opinion and their belief system, but that doesn't mean that that belief gets them to God.

[Jason]

That is true, but I don't know what really gets me.

[Todd Friel]

Let me ask you a question. How many murders and bad, violent things happen in India in the course of a year? Thousands, I would imagine.

[Jason]

That's right.

[Todd Friel]

What do you think about when those bad guys get away? When they don't get punished for their crimes? Do you like that?

[Jason]

Don't like that at all.

[Todd Friel]

Do you like the idea of them going to jail for punishment?

[Jason]

They hardly go to jail.

[Todd Friel]

Well, we like the concept.

[Jason]

It's. Well, you have to. You have to pay your dues when

[Todd Friel]

you do something wrong, when you break the law. So you should love the idea of hell. People break God's laws. That is the right punishment. They sin, they break the commandments, they lie, they steal, they should get punished.

[Jason]

There's one more facet to that. There's forgiveness if you repent.

[Todd Friel]

I was just focusing on your opinion about hell. That you don't like the idea, but you like the idea of justice on an earthly set. You should love the idea of justice in a heavenly sense.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

That God, the just judge would judge people based on what they've done. You should like that. That's why hell is a reasonable and good thing.

[Jason]

If. Yeah, if I don't believe that there is a hell and you will go to it for bad things, then I'd probably do whatever I want.

[Todd Friel]

Well, it actually should scare you, shouldn't it? Shouldn't the idea of hell scare somebody?

[Jason]

I mean, it does.

[Todd Friel]

Let me reason with you for a minute about the reasonable nature of hell.

[William]

Okay.

[Todd Friel]

You're a pretty average guy. I'm guessing you've told lies in your life.

[Jason]

I have.

[Todd Friel]

Right. And you've stolen Things, little things, small things. Jesus said, if you look at a woman with lust, you've committed adultery in your heart. Now you're a guy, you've got blood running through your veins. I'm guessing you've done that, maybe even today. Just looking for the library?

[William]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. Those are all violations of God's laws. Because he's perfect and he looks at our heart, what's going on inside of our brain. He even sees the things that we fail to do. Somebody who needs help, we don't help them, we see the poor and we don't feed them. All violations of what he commands us to do.

[Jason]

We're doing it.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, so you die, you get judged by God. He finds you guilty of breaking the laws. If he's just and he's good, what should he do with you?

[Jason]

Well, if I feel bad about it,

[Todd Friel]

and I want to answer the question, what should he do with you? Regardless of what I feel, feelings are. It's like the criminal saying, I feel bad, it doesn't matter.

[Jason]

Okay. In that case, ideally, if I was a guy who believed in justice, he should condemn me.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah. Well, whether you believe in justice or not, if he is just, he would condemn you.

[Jason]

He would. He would.

[Todd Friel]

No matter how much you protest, you're guilty and he's just off to hell you go, right?

[Jason]

Essentially, yes.

[Todd Friel]

Right. And that's a good thing, see, because if he didn't punish you, a lawbreaker, then he wouldn't be just, would he?

[Jason]

He wouldn't be just.

[Todd Friel]

And that would make God less than perfect.

[Jason]

Well, being just is. I don't think.

[Todd Friel]

That's all right, I agree with you, but we're just kind of focusing on the idea of hell.

[Jason]

Okay?

[Todd Friel]

Yeah, because there's other components. You're right about that. But hell is reasonable and it's good because God is just. So that's why hell. We shouldn't just toss it out of the Bible. No, it's actually a good doctrine.

[Jason]

It's a good doctrine, but it's scary. It is scary, but without it, ye. There are two sides to everything, isn't there? So.

[Todd Friel]

Well, there can be, but something is either right or it's wrong.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

All right, so, my friend, let me. You said you kind of believe in God. You kind of don't. You kind of like some things kind of don't. It's.

[Jason]

It's all according to convenience. It is.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah. Right. But someday, even though you're a young man. That's right. You know what? I'm perfectly dry right now. If you're okay?

[Jason]

I'm okay, yeah. Good.

[Todd Friel]

Are you gonna melt?

[Jason]

No, no, no.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah. I'll sit down with you. All right, here's what I want to do. I want you to ponder something just for a minute because we have to take a little break here. Commercials, you've got those in India, right? Here's what I want you to ponder for all of three minutes, okay? If you were to die, this tree fell, the lightning struck, okay? And by the way, have you seen the lightning here?

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Unbelievable.

[Jason]

Wow.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, you get struck by lightning, down you go, you get judged by God, off to hell you go.

[Jason]

Okay.

[Todd Friel]

Do you know what hell is like?

[Jason]

I don'.

[Todd Friel]

Terrible.

And the reason it's so bad, it's not really because our sins are so bad, but it's because our sins are against a holy God. That's the problem. It's not that lying is a big deal to man. Men go, whatever, you lied. No big deal. We all do it. But God is infinitely offended because he's infinitely holy. And so he finds even small infractions to be very terrible because of his character and nature. He punishes you forever. I want you to ponder just for a few minutes what that would be like forever to be receiving the wrath of God. You're gonna ponder that. We're gonna do a little commercial, and then we'll come back and we'll figure out some of those other components. Fair enough.

[Jason]

Fair enough.

[William]

All right.

[Todd Friel]

What's your first name?

[Jason]

I'm Jason.

[Todd Friel]

Jason, you're a gentleman. All right.

[Jimmy Hicks]

You are listening to wretched radio 369 million. That's how many people are a part of the new Apostolic Reformation movement. And if you've never heard of it, that's part of the problem. Maybe you have heard of Jesus culture. Maybe your teenager listens to their worship music. Maybe your church sings their song songs on Sunday morning, but you don't know what they actually teach and where it leads. Drunk in the Spirit pulls back the curtain on one of the most destructive forces in Christianity today. Who are these people? What do they believe? And why should it matter to your family and your local church? This isn't fear mongering, it's education. Because you can't guard against something you don't recognize. And this movement has tentacles in places you wouldn't expect if you care about protecting your family and your church from false teaching. That sounds Christ centered, but it's not. This is essential. Drunk in the Spirit. It is streaming now for free on fortis. Download the app on your smartphone on your smart TV or just simply go

[Todd Friel]

to fortisplus.org perhaps you've been wondering, is there a Christian university that isn't woke or that hasn't compromised on important biblical doctrines like, you know, the Age of the Earth? There is. It's the Masters University in Southern California. Beautiful campus, all of the athletics and activities that you've come to expect from universities. But it's more than that. The academic programs are most excellent, preparing students for the future. The Washington Post just said number six for preparing students for the real world. All that, plus the Masters University isn't woke and it is thoroughly biblical. Would you like to learn more? I encourage you to visit the Master's University at Masters. Edu wretchedmasters Edu Wretched Be honest.

[Jimmy Hicks]

When's the last time you shared the gospel with a stranger? Not posted something online, not like the Christian meme, but actually opened your mouth and told someone about Jesus? If your stomach tightened just a little bit, you're not alone. Most Christians would rather do almost anything than evangelize. It's terrifying. What if they get mad? What if I say something wrong? What if they ask me a question I can't answer? Our resource Terrified too. It exists because Jesus gave us the Great Commission, not the Great Suggestion, and He actually gave us the tools to obey it. And this resource will walk you through how to share the Gospel with strangers, even family members, without needing Pepto Bismol to get through it. You'll still be nervous. That's normal. But you'll also be equipped and equipped be terrified Every single time. Terrified. 2 It is streaming right now for free on Fortis. Download the app right now on your smartphone, on your smart TV, or head to fortisplus.org.

[Todd Friel]

Attributes of God what does God's patience look like? Second Peter, Chapter three, Verse nine says the Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some counsellors, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. God is not hurried, nor has he forgotten his promises. God will bring about the fulfillment of his eternal plan in due time. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

This is Wretched Radio at Georgia Tech on a Witness Wednesday, sitting here with Jason from Southern India. Jason, I said to you before the break because you said you kind of look at the doctrine of hell and it seems a little severe. It seems a little harsh. I tried to reason with you about the nature of hell and why it's a good thing that God is going to get all the law Breakers. So all the guys that rape women, he's going to get them. All the men who murder women, he's going to get them. But he's also going to get the liars, the thieves, the adulterers, the blasphemers. If you've ever taken God's name in vain, he's going to clean house and anybody who's done wrong is going to get punished.

[Jason]

No one's going to heaven like this.

[Todd Friel]

Well, nobody should go to heaven. That is the correct conclusion. You're right. Nobody should go because nobody deserves it. Because everybody's broken the laws, okay? Everybody has. Don't you think about broke the laws?

[Jason]

Yeah, but don't you think about gradients?

[Todd Friel]

Yeah, about gradients?

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

As in degrees.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Well, so that girl who just walked by, she's told 15 lies, you've told 50. All right, all right. So maybe hell won't be as hot.

[William]

Okay?

[Todd Friel]

But it's still gonna be rotten.

[Jason]

It's still gonna be rotten, but maybe heaven's not gonna be so good for her.

[Todd Friel]

Well, I agree with you. She wouldn't like heaven because she likes lying.

[William]

Yeah.

[Jason]

So, I mean, maybe. Sorry, maybe hell won't be so. So good for you.

[Todd Friel]

Well, it's horrible for everybody, but it's degrees of horribleness. I mean, suffering for forever.

[Jason]

Yeah, that doesn't make sense. There is that point where you realize what you've done. Right. I personally believe that after hell, if you reform, maybe you go to heaven.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah, but the problem is, according to the Bible, it's too late.

[Jason]

Even a prisoner, the Bible says forever, right?

[Todd Friel]

Yeah. And even a prisoner, though, who is sitting in a jail cell, who reforms himself still has a debt to pay. Well, even though he's reformed, he maybe cleans up his act. He doesn't break any more laws. He still has his debt.

[Jason]

Isn't the misery that he felt the debt that he's paid also?

[Todd Friel]

Well, it can maybe satisfy depending on how long the sentence is. But again, remember our problem with going to hell? We've sinned against an infinite God. The punishment, the sentence, is infinite because that's what our crimes deserve. And some people say that even those who are in hell, they never really change their heart and their mind about God. Jason, here's what is at the core of sinning, its wickedness is in the fact that it demonstrates that it's faithlessness. We demonstrate that we don't have faith in God, that we don't trust God. We love other things more than God. At the core of every sin is Trusting self, loving ourselves more than loving God. So even as you lie, it's blind, blasphemous and idolatrous against God because you're loving yourself and your ways more than God's ways.

[Jason]

Wait, wait. So what about. Okay, me being here is my selfishness to want more?

[Todd Friel]

Well, desiring more things doesn't have to be a sin. We can have proper desires.

[Jason]

I want to meet women out here, etc. I want to be more successful, etc. So. So isn't that.

[Todd Friel]

It depends. For instance, there's nothing wrong with desiring a good woman to marry her. If you're desiring to simply fornicate with her, that's a bad desire.

[Jason]

Okay, I agree with that.

[Todd Friel]

To desire to have a career so that you can make money, to provide for a family or to give money to God. Nothing wrong with that.

[Jason]

But to buy the Ferrari, it's not.

[Todd Friel]

Well, if you're. I need a Ferrari because I want to drive around so that people will think I'm cool. So that I can get the chicks, so that I can. Can be sleeping with them.

[Jason]

Then on some grounds it's right. Is it?

[Todd Friel]

Yeah. There's nothing wrong with physical things. God made the world. It's good if we use it rightly. If our priorities are right now. If we're desiring it for sinful reasons, selfish reasons, then we're doing it wrong.

[Jason]

Okay, that's agreed.

[Todd Friel]

So it's okay to get an education. You can become an industrial engineer and use it for right causes.

[Jason]

So then, yeah, there is questions and answers. When you go in deeper, then you find out what's right and wrong. Right?

[Todd Friel]

Well, your conscience knows what's right and wrong regarding sinning.

[Jason]

Okay, but here's the thing. You even talked about lust. But lust is part of, you know, how you. How you meet women, how you actually judge who you're gonna get married to.

[Todd Friel]

Well, there's. There's a. There's a fine line.

[Jason]

Okay, wait. If I was married and I'm lust.

[Preston]

That's bad.

[Jason]

Yeah, fine. That's okay.

[Todd Friel]

Not even if you're not married. Doesn't matter because that woman isn't yours. And you're not in the relationship that God says that type of thinking is. Okay, now let's get back, just for a moment, to hell. We can get back to lusting at the end here, but let's just get to hell for a moment. You die, you get judged by God. He sends you to hell because he knows your thought life. He knows your desires. He knows the things You've said in anger. He knows when you've dishonored your parents by not being obedient, okay? He knows that you haven't thanked him for every meal that you've eaten and every prayer, that every piece of air that you've taken and used so that you can live. You haven't thanked him and it's his air, okay? He made the air. You just keep gulping it without saying, can I have some of your air, please? And thanking him. So you're stealing air from God, Okay? He judges you. He sends you to hell just like everybody else. That is exceedingly bleak and depressing.

[Jason]

It is. It is.

[Todd Friel]

And there's another problem with it. God isn't just. Just.

[Jason]

Okay?

[Todd Friel]

God is also kind and he's merciful and he's loving. But he can't just let you go because if he just lets you go, Jason, then he's not loving and kind to the other people because he hasn't upheld justice. So we got some tension now. Here's what we got. A God who's just. Who must punish a guy like you and me. But he's loving and he wants to. To save a guy like you and me. So something has to happen. The tension needs to be broken somehow. Here was the plan that God created. He sent his son, who is God's son, Jesus, who is God himself, to die on a cross to take the punishment that you and I deserve. It was God pouring out the wrath that you and I deserve on his own son.

[Jason]

On his own.

[Todd Friel]

So punishing him on our behalf so that justice could be satisfied, so that your fine could be paid, so that you could be set free. Yeah, that's the God. That's the good news. That you're a sinner who can be saved because of what Jesus did. That's the good news. You can be forgiven by God. And not only forgiven, because Jesus kept all the commandments. He never lusted, he never lied, he never stole. He always honored his parents. Not only will you be seen as forgiven, you will get his righteousness credited to your account. You will be seen as just before God.

[Jason]

I like the gospel.

[Todd Friel]

It's an amazing. And it's better than Hinduism and Buddhism and Islam and Mormonism because they all say, work, work, work, work, work. And maybe you'll be reincarnated or maybe you'll get to go to Paradigm. Maybe Jesus says, you'll definitely go to heaven if you repent and trust in me.

[Jason]

Agreed? Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Turn from your sins. Put your trust in Jesus. And the Bible says God will give you a new heart. And now all of a sudden you're going to see a girl walk by and while you might initially go, whoa, you're gonna go, whoa, stop it.

[William]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

That type of sinning was the thing that put Jesus on the cross.

[Jason]

Okay?

[Todd Friel]

That's the type of thing that he died to save me from. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna keep thinking like that. I'm gonna stop that. Because you're gonna have new affections and new desires and you're gonna live to please the one who saved you.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

And that's what a Christian man behaves like. Do we ever sin? Yeah, we do, but we don't live in that lifestyle of sin.

[Jason]

Yeah. Okay.

[Todd Friel]

That's the difference. We have new affections, new desires, a new heart. We live to please the one who tried to save us. Now, Jason, you sort of believe that, but you sort of don't.

[Jason]

I still. Yeah, I'm still like that.

[Todd Friel]

You're still like that. Okay, so what do you think Jesus will do with you if you're sort of still like that? You haven't repented, you haven't put your trust in him, you haven't fled to him for mercy.

[Jason]

Good Christ. But yeah, that's one of the semi advantages of being not a fully believer.

[Todd Friel]

That's an advantage.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

What's the advantage?

[Jason]

Say you don't believe in it and say this is all not true. Or say that God doesn't exist. Okay. In that case, the small things that I've done, I can conveniently forget about it. But on a high level, no.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah, but see, the big if is. Is Jesus God?

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Is he your creator? Well, he's called the Son of God because that describes his relationship to the Father. Very close. But he's not less than God. He's fully God, fully man. It had to be a complete God sacrifice and a complete man sacrifice to represent you and to satisfy the wrath of the Father. If he exists, if he's true, if he is who he claims to be. Right now, the Bible says you're not kind of half and half. The Bible says you are fully, totally at war with God. You have enmity with God in your mind through wicked works, and his wrath abides upon you. There's no advantage.

[Jason]

That's tiring.

[Todd Friel]

It is. And you can't keep the law. You have the desire to keep the law right now. Okay, you can't do it.

[Jason]

But if, you know, if there's so many laws, etcetera, Then why are you put on the earth.

[Todd Friel]

You know why you're put here? So that you'll hear this message from a complete stranger, even though you've been in America for three whole days. And that you'll repent.

[Jason]

Yeah. Okay.

[Todd Friel]

And you'll put your trust in Jesus. And then for all of eternity, all of creation is going to point to Jesus and go, look at how amazingly kind Jesus is. Your purpose in life is to glorify God by getting saved. Primarily, I believe that's it. And then you will be a trophy of God's grace. You will be the one that he can point to and go, you know that lusting. Maybe you've looked at pornography, maybe you've fornicated. Whatever it is that you've done, he can say, that, wretched man, I forgave him. That's how good I am. That's why you're here. So God can be glorified for being so good to a guy. Like, amen to that. Amen. Meaning, is it true?

[Jason]

It's true.

[Todd Friel]

Then, dude, you need to respond. If you sit in limbo land, you're not in the camp. You're still. If you are not for him, you're against him. And right now, you're against him because you're sitting there all squishy.

[Jason]

Yeah. Okay.

[Todd Friel]

So as you wander your way to the library, you need to be thinking about this so seriously, because he offers you forgiveness and everlasting life. This is a good offer. And you won't want to delay until your deathbed. Why would you, right now, when you're in a wrong relationship with God? You could be in a right relationship with God.

[Jason]

Okay. Yeah, that sounds good.

[Todd Friel]

You got a Bible, don't you?

[Jason]

Yeah, I do.

[Todd Friel]

Jason. I'm gonna be praying for you, young man.

[Jason]

I hope so. I'll be praying for you, too.

[Todd Friel]

Stay dry.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Please be praying for Jason, whose eyes are really reeling right now. It's Witness Wednesday on Wretched Radio, and

[Jimmy Hicks]

it's now time for your daily Fortis news break, a production of Fortis Institute. A minority co owner of the Seattle Storm has been finding banned from her team's next five home games after confronting two teenage girls sitting courtside. They came to a recent game against the Indiana Fever wearing shirts from a brand that campaigns to keep women's sports female. Holding a sign thanking fever guards Sophie Cunningham for speaking up for girls. By the girls account, the co owner walked over, called them a word this program's not going to repeat, and said she hoped Jesus could forgive them for their sin. The team's majority owner apologized publicly, and Cunningham told the girls online that everyone is welcome at her table. And what Cunningham said to start all of this is that she wants to protect young girls in a locker room and girls in sports shouldn't have to line up against biological men. That's not a fringe position. Gallup finds that 69% of American adults agree, including 72% of independents. However, the politicians haven't caught up. In Iowa, a Democrat on her third run at a congressional seat is watching a 2021 video resurface in which she called a bill protecting girls sports damaging and warned that it would make Iowa look like a backwater. Iowa passed the bill the following year anyway, and out at Washington State State More than 400,000 residents signed petitions to put girls sports on the November ballots. The new poll from The Economist and YouGov has 54% of Americans saying that same sex marriage should be legal and 34% saying it should not. Gallup's number has slid from 71% three years ago to 65. Family Research Council President Tony Perkins points out Americans were promised this was simply a about letting committed couples formalize a relationship and nothing else would change. Instead, we've got a surrogacy industry building children who will never have a mother or a father, and companies leaning on employees to affirm a list of identities that grows every year. That's a lot of change for a promise that nothing would change. Which brings us to a father in Michigan who said so out loud and got punished for it. Of course he did. He walked into his son's middle school, solved the walls covered in pride flags, and complained a school board member suggested that he send his kid in tenant sunglasses. So he went back after hours with staff permission, filmed the hallway and posted the video to a parents group on Facebook. The district banned him from every inch of school property under threat of criminal prosecution. So he was not allowed to go to sports games or concerts or any extracurricular activity, only curbside drop off off. And they hung his photograph in front of the office like a wanted poster. A federal judge has now thrown all of that out. The video never mentioned violence, and the father spoke calmly. And that wraps up today's Fortis News break. I'm Jimmy Hicks. If you want more, you can download Fortis or sign up to become a Fortis Insider for exclusive daily content. Both of those things can be [e-mail] and don't forget, you can subscribe to Fortis News on your favorite podcast app in order to get these updates daily. And until tomorrow, go serve your king.

[Todd Friel]

Books of the Bible. It is not certain who the human author of the Book of Hebrews was. However, it is certain that the ultimate author is the Holy Spirit. The message of Hebrews is an exhortation to faith in Jesus Christ, the mediator of the New Covenant. When you want to see how God foreshadowed and fulfilled the gospel in the Old Testament, look to Hebrews. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

There's a guy who's walking in flip flops and he looks like Jim Caviezel. Hey, young man, could I talk to you while you're walking to wherever you're going?

[Preston]

All right.

[Todd Friel]

What's that about? You just swore on the radio, man.

[Preston]

Oh, nice. Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah. Okay, I gotta. I gotta.

[Preston]

All right.

[Todd Friel]

I have to confess to you what I was thinking when I saw you walking.

[Preston]

Yeah?

[Todd Friel]

You look kind of like Jim Caviezel.

[Preston]

Sweet.

[Todd Friel]

Do you know who he is?

[Preston]

No.

[Todd Friel]

He was the guy who played Jesus in the movie the Passion of the Christ. Okay, has anybody told you that you look kind of New Testament y?

[Preston]

Yeah, I get that every once in a while, I guess.

[Todd Friel]

Okay.

[Preston]

Like every day, all the time.

[Todd Friel]

And how do you respond to that? Well, except when you got sandals on, you're not wearing, like a tunic or anything.

[Preston]

With frustration.

[Todd Friel]

You don't like it?

[Preston]

No.

[Todd Friel]

How can you come?

[Preston]

Because it's just kind of weird for people to call somebody else Jesus.

[Todd Friel]

Well, I agree with that completely.

[Preston]

Not that I'm, like, Christian or anything.

[Todd Friel]

What are you?

[Preston]

Okay, this is on the radio, so I'm atheist.

[Todd Friel]

Don't worry, nobody's gonna be offended. This is America still.

[Preston]

Oh, no, I'm not Christian. Everybody looks down on you for some reason.

[Todd Friel]

Do they? Do you think so?

[Preston]

Not here in college, but.

[Todd Friel]

No, in the world do you think they do?

[Preston]

But in the real world, people have a problem with that for some reason.

[Todd Friel]

Have you experienced any sort of persecution for being an atheist?

[Preston]

Actually, I kind of take it with pride, I guess.

[Todd Friel]

I mean, like, have you ever not been hired, demoted because you're an atheist?

[Preston]

Well, no, but I guess that's because nobody really asked that question.

[Todd Friel]

Oh, they've egged your house. They've slit your tires.

[Preston]

Nope.

[Todd Friel]

They've stoned you.

[Preston]

Ah, man, if only.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, wait a second.

[Preston]

New Age stone's great.

[Todd Friel]

You have been persecuted with. With. With condescending glances. Yes, that's. That hurts, doesn't it? I make it look like it hurts,

[Preston]

but inside I'm just laughing.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, so why are you an atheist

[Preston]

because I grew up around science watching the Discovery Channel. Ah, I guess that's. That's one way to put it.

[Todd Friel]

So you don't believe that there's a God?

[Preston]

No.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. And so you certainly don't believe in Jesus?

[Preston]

No.

[Todd Friel]

Who do you think Jesus is?

[Preston]

Was a collection of old stories from other religions.

[Todd Friel]

Why do you believe that?

[Preston]

It's a good way to control people.

[Todd Friel]

So you are reading the minds of people who decided in order to impose authority, they came up with this idea of Jesus so that they could extort money from them.

[Preston]

One of the reasons maybe.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, that's got to be a Discovery Channel theory, right?

[Preston]

Dude, it's been on the History Channel. Discovery.

[Todd Friel]

And you can believe everything you see on tv.

[William]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Like on the religious programs?

[Preston]

Sometimes.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah.

[Preston]

Right.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, tell me what is. Were perfect for people to hold. Tell me, my clever atheist friend, what is the primary message of Jesus?

[Preston]

Jesus's message actually made sense. Love everyone. No, that's as far as I've gotten.

[Todd Friel]

Oh, well that's a good one. And we should. But that isn't the biggie. That isn't the. The big message of Jesus.

[Preston]

What is it?

[Todd Friel]

Besides, when you think about it, it's kind of a mean thing to tell you to treat people a certain way because maybe you don't feel like it. What motivation do you have to love other people?

[Preston]

Treat everyone with respect is what I get out of life.

[Todd Friel]

Anyway, here was his biggest message. You ready?

[Preston]

Yes.

[Todd Friel]

Repent and believe the gospel. Repent. Do you know what that means?

[Preston]

Yeah. Oh yeah. Ask for forgiveness for your sins, say sorry to God and then believe the gospel, which is pretty much self explanatory,

[Todd Friel]

that Jesus died on the cross satisfying the wrath of God so you don't have to go to hell.

[Preston]

Yep.

[William]

Yep.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, so you know the gospel, right? What I'm saying. Here's here. Okay, I'm gonna. Okay. We're passing by the school of psychology. I'm gonna read your brain right now. You ready?

[Preston]

Let's do it.

[Todd Friel]

You don't think you're a sinner, do you?

[Preston]

Well, if you don't really believe in the whole theory of sin, then no.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, I'm gonna try to prove that you.

[Preston]

I haven't done anything wrong that would be considered a sin that would make you a sinner, though I am divine in any certain way, but didn't ask that.

[Todd Friel]

But you think you're a pretty good person, don't you?

[Preston]

I think that I live my life on some morals and ethics that are

[Todd Friel]

also in like honesty yes. Have you ever told any lies?

[Preston]

Well, everyone's told lies.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, so you haven't really lived up to that moral principle. Right? Right.

[Preston]

Well, there are why lies and then there are trouble.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so you've lied. So you haven't upheld your principle of I honesty. Right. Stolen anything?

[Preston]

Hmm. Not necessarily.

[Todd Friel]

Even as a child? Something small.

[Preston]

What, like candy?

[Todd Friel]

Sure.

[Preston]

Okay.

[William]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

All right. So you really haven't been honest with other people that way, have you?

[Preston]

Maybe not.

[Todd Friel]

In fact, you'd be a thief, wouldn't you?

[Preston]

Sure.

[Todd Friel]

All right, get ready for this one. I'm gonna go back to Jesus for a moment.

[William]

Sweet.

[Todd Friel]

I'm guessing you're not married, correct?

[Preston]

Nope.

[Todd Friel]

All right, so you're gonna think, well, I haven't committed adultery, but Jesus said if you look at a woman with lust, you've committed adultery in your heart. How are you doing on the purity scale?

[Preston]

Blackest heart ever.

[Todd Friel]

So you've lusted.

[Preston]

Lust is a fun thing to do, I guess.

[Todd Friel]

Even on this walk. I'm guessing you've accomplished that one.

[Preston]

Not yet, actually. It's kind of fun.

[Todd Friel]

No, but you've been. You've been on the alert though, correct?

[Preston]

Well, I keep my eyes open.

[Todd Friel]

Well, sure. You guys gotta do it.

[Preston]

Motivation is key to life.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, so here we go. I just.

[Preston]

I just.

[Todd Friel]

I just.

[Preston]

Sorry.

[Todd Friel]

That's all right. I just asked you three questions about your moral living and you admitted to me that you're a liar, you're a thief, and you're an adulterate heart. So that would make you a sinner. Yes, sir. Yes, you are correct. So you, if God exists, actually need the gospel, don't you?

[Preston]

If he exists, I should probably do the best thing and take it up.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah, well, and probably the smart thing too, because it would make sense that if you're a lawbreaker and God should send you to hell because you've broken his commandments, but he was so kind to send his son to take the punishment you deserve.

[Preston]

Yes.

[Todd Friel]

I would think that that would be such an attractive God that you would want to be in a right relationship with him.

[Preston]

If I believed in such.

[Todd Friel]

Well, my friend, I don't know if it's a matter of believing or not. The question is, is it true? Doesn't matter if we believe it. The question is, is it true?

[Preston]

That's a good, good statement.

[Todd Friel]

Now, you've watched the History Channel, Discovery Channel, and a lot of these people who are kind of wanting to present attacks on the gospel. Are you sure that those guys are right?

[Preston]

You can never Be certain. There's always room for skepticism.

[Todd Friel]

Well, it's kind of a self refuting statement because you're certain that you can never be certain, therefore you can be certain.

[Preston]

That's just a funny way to put it, I guess. Yes.

[William]

Right.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, so it still boils down to, is what the Bible says true, or is the History channel true? Because if the Bible is true, you die. God judges you. He opens up the books on your life, sees the thoughts, the deeds, the things you haven't done. What would be the right thing for God to do with you? Take you to heaven or send you to hell?

[Preston]

Well, I feel that if God is such a glorious and wonderful, loving God that he'll look back and see, well, Preston's only ever stolen candy. He's never actually cheated on anyone. He's never hurt anyone. That he's actually a pretty decent person who makes sure that everyone around him is happy with him, content at the least. And that he's never tried or meant to lie for his own personal gain. So he's a pretty righteous person. However, in God's defense, if he decided to put me in hell, he is much more, much smarter than I am. So that's up to him, I guess.

[Todd Friel]

Let me try to reason with you for a moment. A criminal is standing before a judge, and he doesn't think that his crimes were that big. Does it matter? No, what matters is what the judge thinks.

[William]

Right?

[Todd Friel]

All right. Now let's say that the judge says, you're guilty. You've broken the law, very serious offenses. And the criminal says, but, judge, I've done some good things. Is the judge gonna say, oh, good thing, Never mind. All of your crimes have just been erased. You're free to go.

[Preston]

Hmm? No, no.

[Todd Friel]

It doesn't matter what the criminal thinks. What matters is what the judge thinks. So let's get it from God's perspective. You've lusted, you've lied, you've stolen, you dishonored your mom and dad by lusting, lying and stealing. Right. You may be taking God's name in vain. Blasphemy. Right.

[William]

Daily.

[Todd Friel]

And you don't honor God, so you committed idolatry, Right?

[Preston]

Sure.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. So God should send you to hell, right?

[Preston]

If he must, he must.

[Todd Friel]

Well, he must, actually. If he's good, he must. Because that's what a good judge does. He sends people to hell for breaking the laws. That's what the good thing. That's the just thing to do. So, my friend, if it's true, you need the gospel. Are you sure The History Channel is right again, skepticism.

[Preston]

However, personally, the way that most people believe in God, I believe that there is no God.

[Todd Friel]

So, Judge, I don't believe that you exist. What does the judge say?

[Preston]

So if I was Muslim, I would still be wrong?

[Todd Friel]

Or if I was not talking about a Muslim. And you're not that. Anyway, it's you standing before the judge.

[Preston]

Same thing. You would attack me no matter what I said. Unless I said, oh, yeah, I'm pure Christian. Then you just attack the morals of Christianity.

[Todd Friel]

Attack you? Attack you. Have I given you a scathing glance yet?

[Preston]

No. And actually, I apologize.

[Todd Friel]

Hey, dude, I'm exhausted. Thanks for the chat.

[William]

Thank you.

[Jason]

All right.

[Todd Friel]

Hey, as I go. I don't want to sound like a religious freak.

[Jason]

No, no.

[Todd Friel]

Believe the Bible, not that History Channel. Well, it's good news for you.

[Preston]

History Channels is modern. They look at science and fact. And the Bible is from a very long time ago when people were much more gullible and thought, the sun may not rise tomorrow.

[Todd Friel]

Is it true?

[Preston]

It's pretty certain it's gonna rise tomorrow and the next day.

[Todd Friel]

All right. Gotta say the Bible, not the History Channel.

[Jason]

I'll just.

[Todd Friel]

Just repeat what I just said.

[Preston]

Put that back in. All right. Hey, but it was.

[Todd Friel]

Thanks for the chat.

[Preston]

Good times.

[Todd Friel]

All right, see you, man. Goodbye. I don't want to sound like an out of shape religious wingnut, but believe the guy. The but stare at the animal with the animal case. It's Brexit radio.

[Jimmy Hicks]

You know those really big questions you get when your kid comes home from college? You know, the ones about whether God exists, if the Bible can be trusted, why there's evil in the world, or what's wrong with everyone else's view on sexuality? Yeah, those. Road Trip to Truth doesn't dodge them. This resource is hosted by John Ferbarez, and it goes straight to college campuses and talks to students who are asking these very same questions. But it doesn't just stop there. No, no. Then there are the experts that give the real answers with topics like science and faith, pornography, social media and mental health, critical race theory, marriage, eternity. And that's not even the half of it. If you have teenagers, this is the stuff they need to hear before the world gives them its version. And if you don't have teenagers, you'll still learn something. Road Trip to Truth, all four seasons available right now on Fortis for free. Download it now. Where you download apps on your smartphone, your smart TV, or just simply go to fortisplus.org. hey, thanks for listening. To wretched radio today. Let me tell you about something that we're all excited about. Fortis. That's our app. It's absolutely free of charge. And when I say free, I mean actually free. No subscription, no paywalls, no bait and switch, nothing like that. And you'll find hundreds, maybe even thousands of hours of audio and video content on theology, family, biblical counseling. And look, it's not static content. No, we're adding content every single day. Content that's Christ centered and it's content that's at your fingertips for absolutely no charge. How do we keep that free? Well, it's not magic. It's gospel partners. These are people, men and women just like you, who believe in what we're doing at Fortis Institute so much that they have decided to link arms with us. And if that's you, if you've benefited from anything we've done here at Fortis Institute, would you consider linking arms with us as well? All you have to do right now is just get your questions answered and you can find Those [e-mail] Wretched Amazing Grace Amazing Gospel so your phone rings and there's a friend at church who just lost her husband. You want to help, but honestly, you don't know what to say. Or your son asks you what it means, means to be a man and you realize you've never really thought it through biblically. Or maybe there's someone at work who says anxiety is just a chemical imbalance and you're not sure how to respond or even if you should. That's why Fortis forums exist. This is real teaching on grief and marriage, mental health and manhood and more. And they're all available for you to view right now on Fortis. These are, these aren't feel good devotionals. These are Christ centered, scripture saturated conversations that actually equip you for the moments that matter. You can download the Fortis plus app right now absolutely free of charge. You can download it on your smartphone, your smart TV, or just simply go to fortisplus.org and the next time you don't know what to say, you might actually have it answered.

[Todd Friel]

Know your church fathers. Tatian is known as Asia's first Christian theologian. He came from Assyria and studied under Justin Martyr before returning to prepare a path for the gospel into Western Asia. He wrote a harmony of the four Gospels. It was the primary gospel text in Syria throughout the third and fourth centuries. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

Hey, that kid was walking. I'm telling you and I found the football stadium. What do you know? I'm a Georgia Tech. They got a football team here, did you know that? Hey, young man, how many guys are on a football team on each side? What's the number?

[William]

I don't know.

[Todd Friel]

Thirteen, I think. American football.

[William]

Thirteen maybe.

[Todd Friel]

Where are you from?

[William]

From India.

[Todd Friel]

Will you walk with me while I talk to you on the radio, my Indian friend?

[William]

Sure, William.

[Preston]

Alright.

[Todd Friel]

What's the big sport in India? Cricket.

[William]

Yes.

[Todd Friel]

How many guys play cricket?

[William]

Each team has 11 players.

[Todd Friel]

What is it called? You score a goal, a run. A what? Score a run, score a run. Okay. What's a googly?

[William]

A googly is when you have you bowl a ball and the ball seems to be going in a particular direction, but at the last moment it immediately swerves down the direction.

[Todd Friel]

It's a googly. Yeah, so it's. Do you know what are you studying here?

[William]

Electrical engineering.

[Todd Friel]

So maybe you don't know this. This is kind of an English term. What is the English term that describe when a word sounds like the action? Do you know what that is?

[William]

I forgot.

[Todd Friel]

Is it onomatopoeia where the word sounds like it?

[William]

Maybe.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah, I think that's what a googly is. So it kind of does a little googly right at the.

[Jason]

Alright.

[Todd Friel]

What are you studying here?

[William]

Electrical engineering.

[Todd Friel]

Electrical engineering. I was just talking with a fellow from southern India a few moments ago.

[William]

From southern India.

[Todd Friel]

He said that it's very religiously pluralistic. A lot of different religions there.

[William]

Yeah.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

What are you?

[William]

Hindu.

[Todd Friel]

Tell me what it means to be a Hindu.

[William]

Well, I was just born a Hindu.

[Todd Friel]

So you went with it?

[William]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

How old are you now?

[William]

19.

[Todd Friel]

Have you thought it through that it's the right religion?

[William]

I never have had any problem with it.

[Todd Friel]

So how do you practice it every day?

[William]

Well, every morning I just say a prayer.

[Todd Friel]

To whom?

[William]

Just to God in general. I just don't say any God in particular. Thing was in school we had something called moral science in which it was like we were taught about all religions, not just Hinduism. Yeah, so I just used to read all the prayers which I learned from that class.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, so tell me, what is the big teaching of Islam? What does Islam teach about the afterlife? I'm going to give you a quiz. How long ago did you take that class?

[William]

10th grade.

[Todd Friel]

Let's see if it worked. All right. How do you get to heaven if you're a Muslim?

[William]

Just by following the five hadiths.

[Todd Friel]

Very good. That's right. Can a Muslim ever know for sure they're going to paradise. Paradise?

[William]

I'm not sure about that.

[Todd Friel]

No, they can't. They're never certain because they don't know for sure what sort of mood Allah might be in. Okay. As a hindo. What's gonna happen to you when you die?

[William]

Well, I think I'm supposed to be reincarnated.

[Preston]

Okay.

[Todd Friel]

What do you think you're gonna be?

[William]

I might be a butterfly. I might be the plant next time.

[Todd Friel]

Well, what do you think?

[William]

I have no idea actually.

[Todd Friel]

I gotta tell you, being a plant, especially that one, it's kind of ugly. Doesn't sound very exciting to me.

[William]

I don't know.

[Todd Friel]

I don't think I want to be a Hindu.

[William]

I could even be an ant or something.

[Todd Friel]

Well, how does it work? If you're a good person, you become a senator. Well, that would be bad. If you're a good person, you become rich.

[William]

Actually, I think the thing says belief is as. You get reincarnated each time based on what you do in your life. Like what? All stuff you did. Based on that, you get a better life.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

How do you think you've done?

[William]

Well, I'm pretty sure according to that humans actually go lower in the. Lower in the.

[Todd Friel]

You're going lower?

[William]

No. Humans are lower in moral behavior than animals.

[Todd Friel]

Stop it. When was the last time you like ripped somebody's kidneys out and ate them for lunch?

[William]

I didn't do that. I don't.

[Todd Friel]

Animals do.

[William]

Not all of them though.

[Todd Friel]

When was the last time you made a mess in the house and soiled the car? The dogs do. You're not a dog, you're a human. That's better.

[William]

I didn't saw in my.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, the point is you're not an animal. Humans are better.

[William]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, let's go Back to your 10th grade class. Christianity. What does Christianity teach about the afterlife

[William]

Based on a good deeds or bad deeds? You go to heaven or hell.

[Todd Friel]

That's Catholic. There's a difference. Catholic is that if you do good, and maybe if you're perfect by the time you die, you go to heaven. If not, you go to purgatory, work things out. Then maybe you go to heaven or you go to hell. What does biblical Christianity teach?

[William]

I'm not sure about that.

[Todd Friel]

It teaches that nobody does good. Nobody. Not one.

[William]

You. Me.

[Todd Friel]

Would you agree with that?

[William]

Maybe.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, let's test you.

[William]

Ready?

[Todd Friel]

How many lies have you told in your life?

[William]

How many lies?

[Jason]

Yeah.

[William]

Many.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, so that would make you a. Yeah, that's it. Liar. That's not a good person who tells lies, right? See, that's just one commandment right there.

[William]

Okay.

[Todd Friel]

All right, this one gets. This one's tricky, so hang in there for this one.

[William]

Okay?

[Todd Friel]

God doesn't just see our deeds. He looks at the thought life. All right. Would he see that you, my young friend, have ever looked at women and had sexual desires about them?

[William]

Well, my thought process has always been so far. Like, as soon as I looked at a girl, I first think, hold on,

[Todd Friel]

there's a girl right behind us. You might want to. Let's let her pass just for a moment. Because otherwise, you never know. You might meet her in the cafeteria. She'll know what you're thinking. That wouldn't work out so well for you. Okay, so you look at a girl and what happens?

[William]

Well, if it's a friend of mine, girlfriend or someone, I immediately don't have any thoughts about her. I don't know why.

[Todd Friel]

Do you ever look at a woman with lust?

[William]

Yes. Sometimes.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, so God sees you as an adulterer at heart because you're committing the act in your brain.

[William]

I know, but after they said, no, it's not right to do that.

[Todd Friel]

Doesn't matter. It's like a criminal saying, that wasn't right, but he still committed the crime, so you'd be guilty. God's crime. I'm giving you the Ten Commandments right now. These are crimes against God. For instance, did you ever do anything that dishonored your parents when you were a child? You weren't obedient, you were naughty.

[William]

I was mostly obedient.

[Todd Friel]

But you told lies as a kid.

[William]

Yeah, that is more like. My mother asked me, did you take the sweets from the jar? And I said, no.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, so you dishonored her. And if she knew about this little lusting problem of yours, she wouldn't be honored, would she?

[William]

Well, who doesn't?

[Todd Friel]

I didn't say that. But I'm talking about you now. All right, so here's your plight, my friend. According to Jesus, he is going to judge you. Everything you've done, everything you've thought, everything you have failed to do that was right. You and Jesus. Courtroom time. You've broken his laws, so you're guilty of breaking the laws. Should he send you to heaven, or should he say, send you to hell? No such place.

[William]

Well, I guess I had to stay on Earth.

[Todd Friel]

You're going where allowed to stay on Earth? Well, if you can. But when he's gonna get you, he's gonna kill you. Well, you can't atone for your sins because that's not how justice works. You must get punished for your sins.

[William]

Well, I guess then. Laws are broken. Love to go to hell.

[Todd Friel]

That's what Christianity teaches. That you're a sinner like me and those people behind us. And that God judges everything about us. And if we're guilty, he must, because he's good, he must send us to hell. That's what Christianity teaches. So here's a big question for you. If Christianity is true, not Hinduism, not Islam, not Buddhism, Christianity true. Where would you go when you'd die?

[William]

Hell.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah, right on. That's a drag.

[William]

Okay.

[Todd Friel]

All right. What else did they teach you about Christianity? And I know you got to go into your class here, but they taught you in 10th grade. What did they teach you as the good news about Christianity? What did they say?

[William]

They didn't say anything about kidding.

[Todd Friel]

Then they didn't tell you the whole deal. What did Jesus do so you don't have to go to hell?

[William]

Oh, he said he went to heaven. He died for the entire world, for humanity. Then he came back.

[Todd Friel]

He died on a cross, was beaten by men, scourged. Took the punishment you deserve so that your sins could be forgiven. Your badness put on him his goodness given to you so that when you stand before him as a just judge, he can set you free. Because he has satisfied justice. Because he's good and he's kind. The Bible. The Bible says, for God so loved the world, he gave his only begotten son. Whoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life. That's the good news. Not working your way there?

[William]

You can't.

[Todd Friel]

You've already blown it like the rest of us. But you can be forgiven if you repent. Which means say you're sorry and turn from your sins. Put your trust in Jesus. Court case dismissed. Seen as righteous before God because Jesus kept all the laws and you get to go to heaven based on his merits and not yours. That's Christianity.

[William]

Well, isn't that cheating?

[Todd Friel]

Oh, it's good news.

[William]

I still don't think that's a little bit fair.

[Todd Friel]

It's not. But it works out to your advantage. You're right. It's not fair that he took the drubbing that you deserve. He took the punishment for you. But it's good and it's kind and it's merciful and it demonstrates his love and his goodness. That's the of kind gospel. You're a freshman, is that right?

[William]

No, actually I'm a junior.

[Todd Friel]

You're a junior. Alright, here's what you should think. About as you start a brand new year here. Okay. You can try to be reincarnated maybe, but it doesn't sound like you're doing so good with Islam. You got to keep those five pillars. You haven't done that. And you never know for sure if you're going to heaven. Jesus says, if your conscience is speaking to you and you know you've broken the laws, receive his offer of virtue, forgiveness, complete, total, thorough. The complete good news of forgiveness of sins. You should determine what's true, because they're not all true. They can't be, because they contradict each other. Jesus says, I'll save you by grace. The other ones say, work. So you should figure out if what I'm sharing with you, a complete stranger, is true. Because if it is, you're going to hell right now. But you can go to heaven because of Jesus. So figure out if it's true with some urgency, okay?

[William]

Okay. All right.

[Todd Friel]

Hey, You're a gentleman.

[William]

Yep.

[Todd Friel]

Thanks for the chat. All right.

[William]

No problem.

[Todd Friel]

Study hard.

[William]

Thank you.

[Todd Friel]

So I'm asking myself the question, is that boring yet to me? And the answer is it's never been more delightful Honestly Never gets tiresome finally making your way to be able to say but there's good news. It never gets old. It's Witness Wednesday at Georgia Tech. Until tomorrow, go serve your king.