Do You Really Know Your Wife, Mutual Submission, Counterculture

Summary

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Wretched Radio with Todd Friel

Episode Summary: "Do You Really Know Your Wife, Mutual Submission, Counterculture"

Date: May 11, 2026
Host: Todd Friel (Fortis Institute)

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Main Theme

This episode centers on three interconnected themes:

1. The biblical command for husbands to “live with your wife in an understanding way” from 1 Peter 3:7, exploring what it truly means to know one’s wife deeply and spiritually.
2. A thoughtful examination of “mutual submission” within marriage, as debated in Christian theology (complementarianism vs. egalitarianism).
3. The radical countercultural nature of biblical marriage and family roles, especially in contrast to both the culture of first-century Rome and contemporary Western norms.

Todd Friel and regular contributors Jimmy Hicks and Michael engage in humorous, candid conversation, aiming to provoke honest self-reflection and spiritual growth in the Christian household.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Do You Really Know Your Wife? (00:47–25:24)

• Mother's Day Text Context:
  Todd describes how this year's sermon “just happened” to land on 1 Peter 3:7, focusing on husbands’ responsibilities—a providential fit for Mother’s Day.

• Expository Preaching:
  His church follows the next verse in the book, regardless of holidays. This week: “live with your wives in an understanding way.”

• Integrated Marriages:
  Husbands are called not just to co-exist with their wives but to have “integrated lives”—a one-flesh union moving together toward God (03:42).

“You are doing life with your wife. It is a one flesh union. You are in a covenant relationship with her and you live with her. It's integrated.”
— Todd Friel (03:42)

• Studying Your Wife – Inspired by 'Fireproof':
  Todd references the movie Fireproof and its “Love Dare” challenge—specifically the notion that knowing your wife is an ongoing pursuit (05:19–07:00).

“If the amount he studied her before marriage was equal to a high school degree, he should continue to learn about her until he gains a college degree, a master's degree, and ultimately a doctorate degree. It is a lifelong journey that draws his heart ever closer to hers.”
— Jimmy Hicks reading from Fireproof (05:35)

• Depth over Surface:
  Many men claim to know their wives but only know habits, not motivations or spiritual/emotional heart-level realities (06:38–08:06).

“It's not just enough to know it and see the signs. That's a part of it, and that's a good first step. But getting down to the heart level ... requires asking questions.”
— Todd Friel (06:38)

• Sample “Wifeology” Questions:
  Todd introduces a series of diagnostic questions and challenges men to “test” their knowledge, expanding from spiritual life and emotional needs to practical pressures and family origin (08:07–25:18).

  Sample Questions (spanning 08:07–25:18):

  • How would you describe your wife's current walk with Christ?
  • What makes her feel most secure in your relationship?
  • What causes her anxiety or fear?
  • What are her greatest current burdens—internal or external?
  • How does she process conflict?
  • What practices from her upbringing still shape her today?

• Family of Origin:
  Understanding one’s spouse involves understanding their family of origin—habits and patterns may be deep-rooted and not inherently sinful, just different (24:22–25:18).

“If you've never studied that about your wife. Oh, is that ever telling? ... Knowing about her family background will help you identify things and go, okay, I see why she does that.”
— Todd Friel (24:22)

• Humor and Humility:
  Jimmy Hicks admits, “I didn't qualify for a GED. Just being honest.” (25:18). Todd encourages trying these questions at home as a practical way to build intimacy.

2. Mutual Submission – Complementarianism vs. Egalitarianism (29:28–40:32)

• Setting Up the Debate:
  Prompted by a listener’s (and Jimmy’s) question, Todd dives into the hotly debated topic of mutual submission (1 Peter 3:7, Ephesians 5).

• Complementarian View:
  Men and women are created differently to complement each other in role and capability—spiritual value is equal, but functional responsibilities differ.

“We are different, certainly, and that's a blessing. We complement one another ... That's the complementarian position, that we are different in our roles, but we complement one another in those roles because we're simply made differently.”
— Todd Friel (30:00)

• Egalitarian View:
  Advocates total equality in all aspects (emotionally, spiritually, physically) and “flattens out authority” in marriage.

• Key Word in Scripture:
  “Likewise” (1 Peter 3:7) and its semantic range—does it refer to submission in the sense of authority, or to humble service and deference?

• Authority vs. Deference:
  Todd argues that “mutual submission” in the biblical context is not a flatlining of authority but rather husbands loving, serving, and at times deferring to their wives in non-authority matters.

“Submission doesn't have to exclusively mean authority. ... If that's what you want, that's what I want. So when it comes to issues that don't involve authority, a husband can indeed and should indeed submit, putting the other first, esteeming others as better than, including one's wife...”
— Todd Friel (35:30)

• Ephesians 5 Cross-Reference:
  Submit to one another (Eph. 5:21) means wives submit in authority; husbands submit in love, service, and deference. Authority is clearly vested in the husband, as Christ is head of the church (36:50–38:50).

“The husband submits to the wife's desires. So when it says submit to one another, it's not like this flatlined, equal submission. ... The husband retains authority over the wife. But what does Jesus treat the church like? He serves the church, loves the church, cherishes the church ... And that's the role of the husband.”
— Todd Friel (37:00–38:00)

• Big Picture:
  Biblical marriage is not a power struggle but a dance of love, service, and appropriate submission in different areas—a model that stands starkly apart from competitive or transactional relationships.

3. Countercultural Christianity in Marriage (44:01–51:00)

• Historical Context:
  Todd outlines first-century Roman culture—deeply patriarchal, dismissive of women, with double standards and legal/social inferiority (45:44–47:45).

  • Women’s opinions/testimony were not valued.
  • Jesus’s appearance first to women after the resurrection was revolutionary.

• Biblical Commands Are Radical:
  Peter’s command to honor one's wife would have been “bonkers” in Roman culture (47:46–49:35).

“When Peter writes to men, honor her, honor her, live with your wife in an understanding way ... Women were considered inferior ... Peter tells men, live with your wife in an understanding way and honor her because she's a co-heir of the grace of life. Boing!”
— Todd Friel (47:46)

• Application to Modern Culture:
  Christian marriage and family roles are equally countercultural today, whether in “wife, submit to your husband” or “husband, honor and deeply know your wife”—either way, the biblical pattern subverts both ancient and modern abuses.

• True Culture War:
  The most effective Christian countercultural act is not protest or outrage, but living out radical, Christ-reflecting love in the home (49:36–51:00).

“You want to be a culture warrior? ... Live with your wife in an understanding way and honor her. That's countercultural. ... The Bible's way of approaching societal norms that are not good is to have us behave in such a way that it causes society to look at us and scratch their heads and want to know what is our motivation. That is countercultural Christianity.”
— Todd Friel (49:36 & 50:30)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On surface vs. depth in marriage:
  “It's pretty easy in a marriage to discover the stuff that bugs you, isn't it? But have you taken the time to notice the stuff that doesn't?”
  — Todd Friel (08:30)

• On family of origin shaping marriage:
  “Knowing about her family background will help you identify things and go, okay, I see why she does that. ... Is it a sin because she happens to be following the pattern of her parents? Probably not.”
  — Todd Friel (24:22)

• On the challenge to husbands:
  “You want to do something manly? Ask her that question. 'How am I doing, honey?' You better brace yourself ... That is a more manly act than going and wrestling a wild boar.”
  — Todd Friel (16:36)

• On the real counterculture:
  “If you think that you're going to change culture by harping on it and carping about it constantly, this is something we can actually do. ... The challenge, of course, is it doesn't feel quite as—It was good to just let that out. ... We can do something really different. Honor the king. ... Oh, man, now that's hard.”
  — Todd Friel (50:14)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:47–08:06 | Opening, context, the “study your wife” introduction
• 08:07–25:18 | Deep-dive into practical and spiritual questions for husbands/“Wifeology”
• 29:28–40:32 | Mutual submission debate: complementarianism vs. egalitarianism
• 44:01–51:00 | First-century context, women’s roles, true countercultural Christianity

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Conclusion

Todd Friel uses candid humor and honest self-examination to press Christian husbands (and, by implication, all listeners) to go beyond surface-level relationships, asking:

• Do you really know your wife?
• Are you embracing the radical, countercultural call to biblical marriage?
• Are you prepared for deep, ongoing growth in understanding, humility, and sacrificial love—rather than coasting or clinging to cultural patterns?

The episode challenges believers to be “peculiar” in a polarized world—not by loud opposition, but by living Christ’s distinctive, transformative love in daily life.

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Transcript

[Todd Friel]

Close. Very, very close. Thanks to all of the gospel partners who have stepped up during our Spring Match campaign titled no Retreat. Because that is our intention here at Fortis Institute. No retreat when it comes to truth. No retreat when it comes to gospel Proclamation. If you have not yet participated, would you help us get over the finish line with our matching gift campaign? It's a matching gift campaign. Did I mention it's a matching gift campaign? In other words, it's a good time. If you've been considering supporting us financially, we'd be grateful if you'd consider doing so now. You can learn more about the no retreat [e-mail] donate.

[Narrator]

Wretched radio begins in 3, 2, 1.

[Jimmy Hicks]

So it's not a sin in your church to have an abortion.

[Michael]

That's the kind of conversation we would have.

[Todd Friel]

Finding out your story, where you're from. God's the judge. People have to live to their own conviction. The science is clear. The Bible is clear. And if we're honest, our intuitions are clear. We know what we're killing.

[Michael]

We're killing a human being.

[Narrator]

It's time for Wretched Radio with Tom Friel.

[Michael]

Getting to know you. Getting to know all about you.

[Todd Friel]

Getting to know whom. Getting to like you. Getting to hope you like me. Getting to know your wife, of course.

[Michael]

Getting to know you.

[Todd Friel]

Putting it my way, but nicely. Hey, Jimmy.

[Michael]

Yes, Michael?

[Todd Friel]

You a fan of musicals?

[Michael]

Absolutely not.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. Well, then we have something in common. Did I mention this is Wretched Radio? What was your Sunday service about? After all, it was Mother's Day. And it certainly wouldn't be a sin for a church to acknowledge a federal holiday. But an Alpharetta Bible church? Typically. And I mean typically, as a rule, we don't let the federal government nor Hallmark dictate the content of the sermon, or even the service, for that matter. We're kind of pristine in that regard. Again, it's not a sin for a church to mention it. We actually mention mothers, of course, in our pastoral prayer, but the service wasn't revolving around mothers. Why? Because we let the next verse dictate the content of the service. So whatever it is that the next verse in our expository preachings of a particular book, whatever that text is, that's the subject matter. In other words, we let God determine the content. Having said that, providentially, on Sunday morning, Mother's Day, it was the perfect sermon. Well, it wasn't a perfect sermon. Believe me, I know that it was the perfect sermon for wives. Why? Because it happened to be a text, 1 Peter 3:7, that was aimed at husbands. So you see how that worked. It wasn't about women so much as how a husband is supposed to treat his wife. And Whilst Peter, in six verses preceding 1 Peter 3:7, gave women one command, he gives men three commands, including, live with your wife in an understanding way. Live with your wife. In other words, she ain't a roommate, she's not a buddy, she's not a boarder, she's not a servant. You are doing life with your wife. It is a one flesh union. You are in a covenant relationship with her and you live with her. It's integrated. That sounds like a really good podcast, if you don't mind me saying so. I think so, yeah. Integrated, very good podcast. You can find it at Spotify and all that stuff with Dr. John Kratz. You are to be integrated with your wife. Knit together, marching step by step to celestial city. That is what it means to live with your wife. But then Peter says, do it in an understanding way. In other words, you're supposed to know your wife. You're supposed to study your wife. Let me take you back in time. What year was this? This was. Well, this thing was post. Okay, 2008. That's the year. So that would be a lot of years ago. 2008, the movie Fireproof was released. You remembered, of course, with a little growing pain, struggling with his wife. Why? Well, he was looking at bad things on the Internet. Their marriage was estranged. And somebody, I guess it was the dad, gave him a book, the Love Dare, I think the Love Challenge, something like that. And you had to spend 30, 40 days doing stuff for your wife. And one of the things that you were supposed to do was study your wife. I remember this scene vividly and initially going, yeah, whatever. Because, you see, at that point, I'd been married for maybe almost 20 years, and I thought, I don't need to study my wife. I know my wife. And so the scene, honestly, was kind of like, it bugged me.

[Jimmy Hicks]

So what day are you on? 18. And. And it's still difficult. Every day has me adding a new concept to the way I treat her. For example, well, here, day 16 was about praying for her. I kind of skipped that one. Day 17 is about listening to her. 18 is about studying her again. Studying her? Yeah, Here. When a man is trying to win the heart of a woman, he studies her. He learns her likes, dislikes, habits and hobbies. But after he wins her heart and marries her, he often stops learning about her. If the amount he studied her before marriage was equal to a high school degree. He should continue to learn about her until he gains a college degree, a master's degree, and ultimately a doctorate degree. It is a lifelong journey that draws his heart ever closer to hers. It's a pretty good concept. I never thought about it like that. So do you study Tina? Yeah, but I don't think I got

[Michael]

my college degree on it yet.

[Todd Friel]

So tell me a little bit more

[Jimmy Hicks]

about the studying her. I'm supposed to make her a candlelight dinner, then ask her a whole list of questions. My advice is go all out.

[Todd Friel]

The enthusiasm was palpable. Study your wife, Ask her questions. Get to know her. Not on a surface level, not just habits, but. But what motivates behavior, what drives her, what produces either anger, fear, concern, worry. It's not just enough to know it and see the signs. That's a part of it, and that's a good first step. But getting down to the heart level. What's going on down there, darling, requires asking questions. It requires trying to discover what their theology, their practical theology is in the moment. How are they viewing God? How are they viewing self? How are they viewing sin? How are they viewing the promises of the Bible? What is it that, if you will, triggers what you are witnessing? And so to that end, I prepared some questions for you, dude. Questions to see what kind of a degree you have when it comes to knowing your wife. Because we should be having a PhD now. It takes years to do that. But this test, I think, reveals just how well we do or don't know our wives. Are you ready to play how well do you know your wife? Jimmy, you don't have to answer these out loud.

[Michael]

Thank you.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah, I'm just going to ask these questions, and I. The reason that I'm sharing this is not just to retread material from a Sunday morning sermon, but a number of people after the service said, could I get that list of questions? That was kind of helpful because it's kind of hard to know where to start. That's why that fireproof thing was like, well, I know her. Come on. I've been living with her for like two decades. I know her. But the more I thunk about it, the more I realize, no, I don't know the motivations of the heart. I don't know what's happening inside of there as much as I like to think I do, because I probably have just been focusing more on behavior and not what lies behind the feelings, the sentiments, the behavior, and the actions. And so to that end, Here we go. Sir, what kind of a degree would you get in Wifeology 101? Let's start with spiritual life. How would you describe your wife's current walk with Christ? What evidences of grace do you see growing in her? Do you observe those things? It's pretty easy in a marriage to discover the stuff that bugs you, isn't it? But have you taken the time to notice the stuff that doesn't? Here's more specifically. Have you taken the time to notice the stuff that she did that used to bug you, but she decided to make a concentrated effort to go to work on? And it doesn't bug you anymore because she doesn't do it anymore? Have you noticed that? Have you said anything to her about that? What specific sins or temptations does she most commonly struggle with? When does she feel closest to the Lord? And what strengthens her walk? What discourages her spiritually the most right now? What makes her feel most secure in your relationship? So these are relational and emotional questions. What makes her feel most secure with you? What most often causes her anxiety or fear? Why does she respond the way she does when she feels hurt? Or fill in the blank with an emotion. Hurt, angry, if you even exhibit bitterness, what is behind it? Why? And there can be a myriad of things that are behind it. And it's our job as husbands to know our wives because we are living with her in an understanding way. So that we cannot. Because we're greater spiritually, but. But so that we can help. We can know how to live with. We can know how to react to. We can know how to comfort and to counsel and to move our wives forward if they're stuck. And by the way, this is a two way street. But we're just talking about the dudes right now. If she ever blows up, what's the heart reason? So when it comes to anger and expresses herself, what's going on behind it? Find out. Study her. And that means you're probably going to have to ask her questions about it. Oftentimes it can be fear. She gets mad at you for something, but it's not because she's actually mad at you as much as she is afraid of something. Do you know that? Is it frustration? Is it pride? Do you study your wife? Jimmy, how are we doing on the exam?

[Michael]

Not very well. Just being honest.

[Todd Friel]

Don't worry, it's going to get worse. Next on Wretched Radio,

[Michael]

no Retreat. That's the name of Fortis Institute's Spring match campaign. And here's why. The culture we live in right now has made it pretty clear it has very little interest in the true gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. We're being told to keep our faith quiet, public, or to soften what we believe so it goes down easier. Fortis Institute has no intention of doing either one. We exist to advance the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, and this spring we're doing it as loudly and as boldly as we know how. Your gift will help launch two new podcasts. It puts Todd Frill's new book, Go Serve Your King into print through HarperCollins, and it puts puts the gospel back onto college campuses where it's least welcome and most needed. Our goal is $250,000, and we're asking if you would prayerfully consider helping us get there. You can find out more right [e-mail]

[Todd Friel]

donate would you like the university experience without the, you know, university experience? The Master's University Invited invites you to visit their campus, or you can visit them online at masters. Edu Wretched to discover a Christian college that is biblical, that offers all of the academic excellence you desire, sports, athletics, arts, communication, all of the activities of, you know, a secular university without the, you know, secular parts. Please consider the Master's University online or of course, on campus learning, undergrad, master's and doctoral programs. It's Master's University, the university with the university experience without the university experience. Masters.

[Michael]

Edu Wretched hey, thanks for listening to Wretched Radio. Today we brought together a team of fellows, people like Tim Challis, Dr. Jason Lyle, Dr. Ann Andrew Walker, Dr. Greg Gifford, Pastor Brad Bigny, Todd Friel, Dr. John Kratz, Libby Glossin, Dr. Adam Tyson. And they're all committed to teaching the Word without apology. And the reason that we've been able to bring voices like this together in one place is because of our Gospel partners. Just go to fortisinstitute.org right now. Wretched Amazing Grace, Amazing Gospel.

[Narrator]

Know your reformers. John Calvin was a French pastor, an author of the Institutes of the Christian Religion. His writings and ministry made Geneva, Switzerland, a hotbed of Reformed theology. His institutes are still guiding documents for Reformed churches across the globe. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel

[Todd Friel]

here to help you feel like a loser. This is Wretched Radio. Jimmy Feeling like a spirit feedback in there?

[Michael]

Absolutely.

[Todd Friel]

Questions for men that determine how well we know our wives because we are commanded by the APostle Peter in 1st Peter 3 to live with our wives in an understanding way, according to knowledge. And I've got a number of questions that were Asked Sunday morning at Alpharetta Bible Church, that apparently struck a nerve because, Jimmy, all these questions about how well we know our wives aced it.

[Michael]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah. This sermon, it was. Didn't have anything to do with me and everything to do with all the other guys that are men. Yeah. This was. I was just trying to be a blessing. That's right. That's what I was trying to do to be a better husband. And these are questions that they're a little bit deeper than just knowing your wife and her patterns and her habits and her preferences, but getting down deep to understand them. And Jimmy, you'd mentioned there were a few in here where it's like, ooh, oh, yeah. I maybe should. Should consider how well I know my wife in that area.

[Michael]

Absolutely. Like, I mean, just simple questions that you think you should know, like what makes her feel most secure with you. I should know that.

[Todd Friel]

Right. And you maybe do you need to

[Michael]

think about it a bit surfacely maybe.

[Todd Friel]

Right.

[Michael]

But there's a deeper aspect that I know. I don't know.

[Todd Friel]

No, you just used the word that I think is important. And that's why I bring up the fact that you so miserab failed the exam so far.

[Michael]

Thanks.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah. You said deeper. It's deeper. If you start studying your wife in this way, there is a benefit. Your relationship will go deeper because you're going to be getting below the surface where we tend to just be bugged by stuff that we witness in a spouse. And this streak goes both ways. But again, it's the day after Mother's Day, so we're celebrating women and talking about women's issues, so that when we study what's happening at the heart level, you're going to have conversations that are more profound than, how was your day, dear? When we ask questions like, oh, it wasn't good. Let's talk about it. Tell me about it. What happened? What were you feeling in that moment? What were you thinking about God in that moment? What was the outcome that you were hoping for in that moment? What are you doing? You're going down deeper. And I can't help but think about Drive by Marriage. It's a resource that we [e-mail], it's absolutely free. I think it's 30, 40, 15 minute lectures on the subject of marriage and the study guide questions that go with it. I was just looking at them the other day. I started to go through the study guide and the questions. Oh, man, they'd bring you in deep. And I remember Doing these, going through the study guide with Mrs. Friel. And I remember actually feeling. Feeling. We were with groups, couples were broken up. We were teaching it in our subdivision. And so couple, couple, couple. And we're all sitting around and just talking with our spouses, going through these questions. And I remember going, I am feeling so close to my wife right now. Why? Because we were going deeper. Would you like to feel closer to your wife? She would like that, by the way. I can assure you of that. She'd like that. These are the conversations she's probably been longing to have. But if you would like that, also start going deeper. We've got to overcome the initial knee jerk reaction to just fix stuff. So how was your day, dear? Terrible. Where are the kids? Let's deal with. Get the kids out here. I'm gonna. No, hold on. Just slow down. You can deal with it, but we can talk and ask and listen and get to know our wives. Let's continue our exam, shall we, and see what sort of degree you get in wifeology. Communication. Does she feel you listen to, understand or primarily to respond? What topics are hardest for her to talk about with you? How does she prefer to process conflict? Does she want to deal with it immediately or does she need time? What does she wish you would say more often? Oh, man, Cilla, do you know the answer to that question? What do you. What does she wish that you would say to her more often than you currently do? How's about marriage dynamics? In what areas does she feel most supported by you? In what areas does she feel most alone or unsupported? How does she perceive your leadership in the home? Hey, dude, you want to do something manly? Ask her that question. That's right. And take it like a man. Hank. If you ask your wife, how am I doing? Honey, you better brace yourself. Gird your loins. Get ready for the response because it might not be that you're. That she's going to build you a golden statue like they just built for Donald Trump, which looked really very trumpy. I'll just say that. Would she build a statue for your leadership to commemorate how well we are doing? That is a more manly act than going and wrestling a wild boar. That's a more manly question. What makes her feel most loved by you? What are her greatest current burdens? Are they internal or external? What responsibilities feel overwhelming to her right now? When she's stressed, what tends to help her the most? Do you know what practical pressures weigh most heavily on her? Is it work? Is it home? Is it family? Is it health? What's bearing down on her right now? This is not the only. In fact, it shouldn't be the only way that you deal with a home that is currently experiencing a fair amount of conflict. I think those issues need to be addressed head on. But maybe a step in that direction is asking questions to get to the answers that these questions seek to reveal. Where you start asking your wife more intimate questions about her. What are you stressed about, sweetheart? And maybe some of the other conflict issues can then be addressed when she sees that you're actually interested and that you hair. This can bring down the temperature in your home. And what will happen almost inevitably is she's going to start doing likewise. These are helpful things to discern about our wives. It can make a difference when it comes to acrimony in your home. And if you are currently in a conflict with your spouse, maybe starting to demonstrate that you want to know her might just thaw things a little bit and allow you then to deal with those issues. More questions. That's right. There's more. What brings her the most joy in life? What activities make her feel most refreshed? What activities make her feel most exhausted? Here's a question, for instance, that you could ask. You can pick a couple. You can pick an activity, sweetheart. How much do you like spending time with that couple? Because I've never asked. I just assumed you do. I do, but I didn't know if you do. What about this activity? What about this thing that we watch on tv? Because I like to do you like it? How come? Would you like me to watch less of it? Final question, and this one is probably going to sound a little bit weird unless you've studied family of origin issues. In other words, unless you've studied your wife's background, her upbringing, the behaviors, the patterns, the habits and the customs of her family of origin to understand why she does the things she does. This will sound a little foreign. What aspects of her upbringing still shape how she thinks, responds or fears today? The family of origin. If you've never studied that about your wife. Oh, is that ever telling? And I'm telling you, it is so helpful. For instance, if you've got a wife who never closes the cabinet drawers, Did her mom close the cabinet drawers?

[Narrator]

Yes.

[Michael]

She was so rebellious.

[Todd Friel]

Nuts. I was hoping that I would have an example, but oftentimes that is the case. Why your spouse likes a particular thing, does a particular thing, it's because that's the way mom and dad did it. It is as simple as that. And knowing about her family background will help you identify things and go, okay, I see why she does that. And it might be less inclined to bother you if it's a different way of doing something than the way you do it. That's the way she grew up. Is it a sin because she happens to be following the pattern of her parents? Probably not. And so we need to know about those things. How'd you do on the exam? What sort of a diploma would you be awarded? High school diploma. Regarding your knowledge of your wife? Undergrad? Master's doctorate.

[Michael]

I didn't qualify for a ged. Just being honest.

[Todd Friel]

Well, then I guess I know what the Hickses will be doing this evening, don't we? And it wouldn't be a bad thing to do. You use some of these things to ask. You watch where it goes. And the deeper you go, the more closely knitted you will be with your wife and the more you will experience all of the blessings and joy of having a one flesh union because you are living with your wife in an understanding way. This is Wretched Radio.

[Michael]

And it's now time for your daily Fortis news break, a production of Fortis Institute. We start in North Carolina, where a congressman wants Washington to step in, where his local school board will not. Representative Addison McDowell is asking the Education Department to investigate Cox Mill High School, where parents say a biological male has been using the girls bathroom and locker rooms. They say the district continues to hide behind state law. And McDowell, who's a father of three girls with another on the way, says he's not buying it. Title IX protects girls and the Education Department says that the county will either comply now or later. Meanwhile, the fifth Circuit Court of Appeals just ruled the Ten Commandments are not unconstitutional. Try to act surprised. Texas passed a law last year requiring public schools to display the Commandments. And of course, the usual suspects sued. A judge's opinion drove a stake through what was left of the old lemon test, the one that forced cities to flank Baby Jesus with Frosty the Snowman just to keep the Nativity legal. Now Moses can now stand in a Texas classroom without Snoopy holding his hand. The Commandments are doing better in Texas courtrooms, however, than they are in some Sunday pulpits. A reverend, because her name's Anna Flowers, she's telling people that when Jesus said no one comes to the Father except through me, he didn't actually mean it. She calls Christ true alongside other truths. Peter told the Sanhedrin that there's no other name under heaven by which men must be saved. And James warned that teachers face a stricter judgment. And this is what he had in mind when he said that, don't you think? Over at the Daily Wire, Elizabeth Grace Matthew weighs in on the recurring fight over women taking their husband's name. I didn't realize it was such a big fight, but about 80% of American brides still do. That's why I didn't realize it was such a big deal, as it apparently is. But feminists are insisting that it erases a woman's identity. Matthew is pointing out the obvious. A maiden name is Dad's name. You haven't escaped the patriarchy. You've just relocated to a different patriarch. Marriage isn't a form of self expression. It's supposed to transcend within the self, not him versus her. It's him and her together as one. In the state of Alabama, lawmakers passed a new redistricting map last week. And the left, of course, is furious because they did it during a tornado warning. A Democratic state senator filmed herself complaining about the mayhem. The vote went 75 to 29 anyway, and the sirens didn't move a single vote. Lawmakers in New York actually did something useful, if you can believe it, marked the date a bill on Governor Honchul's desk would ban potassium bromate, a flower additive linked to cancer that shows up for pizza dough and bagels. The European Union banned it decades ago. Small businesses are getting a three year window to comply. And that wraps up today's Fortis News Break. I'm Jimmy Hicks. If you want more, you can download Fortis plus or sign up to become a Fortis Insider for exclusive daily content. Both of those things can be [e-mail] and don't forget, you can subscribe to Fortis News on your favorite podcast app in order to get these updates daily. And until tomorrow, go serve your king.

[Narrator]

Books of the Bible, first and Second Kings relate the history of Israel from Solomon through the division of Israel into two kingdoms to the destruction of both kingdoms. Though Israel and Judah and their kings were often unfolded, God continually calls his people to repentance through his prophets. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Todd Friel]

Oh, Jimmy.

[Michael]

Yes?

[Todd Friel]

Would you like to ask that question again?

[Michael]

What question?

[Todd Friel]

Well, you know, the one that you. Don't be all coy. This is Wretched Radio. I don't know why Jimmy's being so shy. During the break, he said, hey, would you please share from the sermon on Sunday at El Fortna Bible Church in First Peter? I think that's pretty much how you framed it just like that. Just like that, yeah. About the debate about egalitarianism and complementarianism and so, Jimmy, I'm happy to oblige.

[Michael]

Okay. Thank you.

[Todd Friel]

Thank you for asking.

[Michael]

Well, thank you for obliging.

[Todd Friel]

There are several verses that are the hotly contested verses between those who believe that we complement one another. We are different, certainly, and that's a blessing. We complement one another. We compliment one another emotionally. We compliment one another when it comes to performance, what we can do, what we can't do. I think that we complement each other physically, certainly. We complement each other when it comes to making babies. That's the complementarian position, that we are different in our roles, but we complement one another in those roles because we're simply made differently. That's why there's not just one gender. We could have had asexual reproduction, but God went, nope, it's not good for man to be alone. We need a woman to do lots of stuff, the chief of which would be to glorify God, man. I mean, like the male gender. We cannot glorify God sufficiently without women. Why? Because there are attributes of God that I think that women are better able to magnify and to demonstrate. For instance, gentleness, tenderness. They're just better at it. And in the Old Testament, God regularly is defined as being gentle. In fact, if I recall, there's five different Hebrew words that describe the tenderness, the gentleness of God. And it ranges from one who's willing to get involved, that's a gentleness, all the way to a womb, like care, like a maternal care. And we need women to glorify those attributes of God. In other words, it's not good for man to be alone. That's why she's an etzer. She provides what is lacking. That's a good thing for all of us fellows to remember, isn't it? Egalitarians, on the other hand, will say, no, we are equal in every regard. There's just. There's no difference whatsoever. We're equal in emotionally, physically, spiritually. Now, a lot of these we do agree with, don't we spiritually value we're equal. Complementarians believe that. But egalitarians specifically desire to flatten out authority, that there is nobody who has authority over the other when it comes to the husband and wife relationship. And there are a number of verses that are hotly contested in that debate, not the least of which would be the verse that we were preaching on Sunday morning for Mother's Day at Alpharetta Bible church. And that's 1 Peter 3:7. Because Peter uses a word likewise, the flow of that verse. Remember, a verse never just dwells all by itself. It's surrounded by other verses, and that will inform what that verse means. And the key word that needs to be determined in 1 Peter 3:7 is likewise. Or maybe your translation says in the same manner. In the same manner as what? So you've got to go back. Well, how far back do you go? I think the flow of the argument is this. Peter tells the persecuted believers in northern Turkey that you need to submit even to a bad government. Now, we know the caveats that accompany that, but basically our posture is submission. Unless they command us to sin, forbid us from obeying a command, or they overstep their jurisdictional authority, we submit to the government. Why? So that their mouth will be silenced. Why? What is Peter on about with Silence their mouth so that their accusations don't stick, so that they will see our behavior, ask about the reason for the hope that lies within us, and we get to proclaim His Excellencies. And then after, submit to the bad government. It says to slaves, submit even to bad masters. And then it gives in our. It's a chiasm, actually. A, B, C, B, A. But the chiasm in the middle is Jesus submission and his suffering. In other words, here's your model right here. So citizens, submit like Jesus, even suffer if necessary, like Jesus. Slaves, submit to your owners, just like Jesus submitted to the Father. And even if you suffer just like Jesus suffered. And then it says, likewise, wives, submit to your husbands. And then it explains what that means and what biblical submission is and what it isn't. And then we get to verse seven, likewise. Hmm, likewise what? Egalitarians will take that and go, that means mutual submission. It's not just the wife who submits, it's the man who submits. And most complementarians go, whoa, hold the phone, Henrietta. And rightly so. So how do we deal with this? It appears that the. In the same manner, likewise indicates that there is mutual submission. That's a tricky phrase. Now, there's really good theologians that have used that phrase. John MacArthur actually used that phrase. John Frame used that phrase. But I think that these days, in the egalitarian debate, if we're going to use that phrase, you better be ready to explain it really, really carefully, because that is the cry of the egalitarian. Mutual submission when it comes to authority. Authority. Now, my argument is that isn't what Peter was promoting. Like, nobody submits to anybody. Why? Because if 1 Peter 3:7 is likewise, you submit in authority. He had just told women to submit to the husband's authority. So how can the husband submit to her authority? Who's in authority here? So it contradicts the preceding verses. Furthermore, I think that the semantic range of the verse allows for other aspects of submission. So submission doesn't have to be symmetrical. For instance, we exchange gifts at Christmas. So let's just say your parents told two kids, you and your sibling, to exchange gifts for Christmas, and you exchanged gifts. You both did it. One gift was better than the other, more expensive than the other. Did you not exchange gifts? You did. You just exchanged different types of gifts. Now, in that instance, it happened to be about value. But in the instance of submission, it's about the aspect of submission. So submission doesn't have to exclusively mean authority. It can mean, I'm humble with you, I give preference to you, I give deference to your preferences. If that's what you want, that's what I want. So when it comes to issues that don't involve authority, a husband can indeed and should indeed submit, putting the other first, esteeming others as better than including one's wife, letting the wife have her way, giving in on issues, doing the things that she wants to do. And if it's something that doesn't involve an authority decision, then she can make those decisions too. And I think that's what Peter is after. It's not submission and authority. It doesn't mean that the man gives up authority. But likewise, we submit in those aspects. And then if you scoot over to Ephesians, chapter 5, verse 21, I think that's supported. Why? Because addressing men and women, I know that because in the next verses in chapter five, he addresses women and men very directly. He says, submit to one another. There it is. So is that mutual submission? Well, not the way the egalitarian understands it, but we can say that the wife submits to the husband's authority, the husband submits to the wife's desires. So when it says submit to one another, it's not like this flatlined, equal submission. Because then he goes in to explain to the wife, you submit like this. And it's clearly about authority, because it's explaining how the Church submits to Jesus Christ because he is the head. And then I think it's about verse 23, 24, when it gets to the men, maybe 25. When it gets. Yeah, 25. When it gets to the men, it doesn't say submit. It says, love, love your wife. The way that Jesus loves the church. Jesus has authority over the church. The husband retains authority over the wife. But what does Jesus treat the church like? He serves the church, loves the church, cherishes the church, and cleanses the church. And that's the role of the husband. So is there mutual submission? Well, in a general sense, yes. In an authority sense, no. But they're complementary. Because if there weren't somebody in authority, there would be chaos. Anytime you've got an organism, there needs to be a head. And if there is not a head of the organism called marriage, it will be chaos and there will be constant bickering and fighting over who's in charge and who gets whose way. Furthermore, it is baked in Christlike love. The husband submits to the wife, and Christlike love leads. With Christlike love, everything is motivated. The best for the wife, as Jesus wants the best for the church. So is there mutual submission? I think we got to be careful how we answer that question because of the baggage that's attached to egalitarianism. But I think to say that men don't submit to wives in some way or another, I think we are commanded to. This is wretched radio.

[Michael]

Most men don't make one big decision that takes them off course. No, it happens gradually, and eventually you look up and you realize, I've been coasting for years. Dr. Adam Tyson has created Walk Like a Man. It's available now on Fortis Plus. Dr. Tyson knows that's the story for way too many guys right now. And so he gets into God's word and he lays out what it actually looks like to walk with wisdom and live with real conviction. And the way he teaches it, you'll walk away from every episode.

[Todd Friel]

No.

[Michael]

Knowing exactly what to do and why it matters. This is biblical teaching that puts solid ground under your feet and gives you a clear path forward. It's streaming right now, with new episodes dropping every Monday on Fortis for free. Download the Fortis app right now. Wherever you download apps on your smartphone, your smart TV, or just go to fortisplus.org and walk like a Man. Okay, so if you admit it, you're like the rest of us. You've got 47 streaming services and you're paying for at least six of them. But somehow every night you sit down on the couch and you say, there's nothing to watch. Meanwhile, Fortis plus is sitting right there for free on your Roku, your Fire tv, Apple tv, Android, hundreds, maybe even thousands of hours of content on theology, marriage, parenting, manhood, cultural issues, stuff that actually matters. And you know, know what? We keep adding more. Of course. You could scroll through Netflix for like 45 minutes looking for something that won't rot your brain. Or you could pull up Fortis and learn something that'll actually help you be a better husband, dad, or Christian by the time the credits roll. Download the Fortis app right now. It is absolutely free and it's on your tv. And unlike that true crime documentary that you've watched three times, at least it might actually do you some good. Ask most Christians what they know about hermeneutics and you'll likely get Herman who? That sounds like somebody's uncle. Is that the guy that always comes and just stays quiet in the back of the small group? Hermeneutics is actually the art and science of interpreting scripture. And if you don't know how to do it rightly, you're going to read the Bible wrongly. Worse, you're actually going to be an easy target for every false teacher with a podcast and a proof text. Herman, who is basically a master's level education in how to read the Bible correctly and it's condensed into something that you can actually finish. You'll learn how to interpret a 2000 year old book in a 21st century world without twisting it into something it was never meant to say. By the end of it, you'll never read Scripture the same way again, and you'll never have the wool pulled over your eyes by someone who sounds confident but doesn't know what they're talking about. Herman who? It is streaming right now for free on Fortis plus, download the app on your smartphone, on your smart TV, or just simply go to fortisplus.org.

[Narrator]

Attributes of God Psalm 115, verse 3 says that God does all that he pleases. God is sovereign over his whole creation. He has the right and the power to govern all things according to his will. Nothing occurs in your life that God in His sovereignty has not allowed. He is working all things for his glory and the good of those who love Him. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Todd Friel]

No, Jimmy, not gonna keep talking about the sermon from Sunday.

[Michael]

Why not?

[Todd Friel]

As long as we've come this far. This is Wretched Radio. That wasn't the whole sermon. I went a little long, by the way. It was a wee bit windy for Mother's Day. You could hear people's stomachs gurgling. We've got brunch to get to and if we miss this reservation, we're going to strangle you, preacher. Because getting a table on Mother's Day. Well, good luck with that. That's right. That was my impersonation of Marco from Trapo, if you get the reference. That is a movie, Jimmy. That's one of the Shawshank Redemption and Taken. And the other night I got Taken by taken. It was 11 o', clock, had the TV on and the movie came on from the beginning and it's like, oh,

[Michael]

no, you watched every minute.

[Todd Friel]

I've got to get to bed. I watched it only to. I just had to hear him say good luck. That's all. I just had to hear that and then I could be done with that. What is it about that movie? I think it's a dad and his daughter. You will go to any length to protect your daughter. Son too, of course, but there's just, there's. There's something about a daughter that it's like, don't mess with my daughter. Because I too have a particular set of skills that I've acquired over many years that make me a nightmare for people like you. You let my daughter go, I will ask no questions. But if you do not, I will find you and I will kill you.

[Michael]

You've memorized the entire movie.

[Todd Friel]

I've only seen it enough. And then Marco from Trapo says, that's the. I set you up.

[Michael]

Good luck.

[Todd Friel]

Well, not like that.

[Narrator]

Good luck.

[Michael]

Is that how you said it?

[Todd Friel]

Sure, close enough. For instance, didn't talk about the part of the sermon that did a little bit of a survey of what women were treated, how women were treated in the first century in under the Roman Empire. Well, you have come a long way, baby, because the treatment wasn't good. And the only reason that I spent a little time talking about the culture of Rome in the first century and the attitude toward women is to show how countercultural Christianity is in Roman civilization. It was patriarchal to the core. I mean, dudes ran the place. Women, second class citizens, I think it's safe to say they were just happy if they were on the train at all. They didn't have their own voice, their opinions. As a rule, certainly some men were better than others. But as a rule, culturally and sometimes legally, their opinion didn't matter, nor did their testimony in court matter. Hence Jesus identifying women to be the first that testified of his resurrection. That was a big deal. He chose the ones that culturally they weren't to be heard. And Jesus said to the women, I'm going to have you be the one who announces my resurrection first. That was radical. That's why we studied what life was like in first century Rome. To understand how radical Christianity was at the time when it gave these commands to, these commands to men that you should honor your wife, honor her, live with her in an understanding way that would have been bonkers. Women were defined relationally. In other words, it's the daughter of and then immediately the husband of. Not her own self, but wrapped underneath a patriarch, if you will. Women, they were expected to remain under male supervision. No political power, no vote, couldn't hold office. They even required oversight due to their intellectual and moral weaknesses. That was Roman culture, first century. When Peter writes to men, honor her, honor her. Women were considered inferior to in relational capacity. Women could be divorced easily but couldn't divorce the man, at least not easily. Sexual double standards normal. The man could have an affair, no biggie. The woman, biggie, big problem. It was double standard. Female independence was considered dangerous. You gotta look out for those women. They were held in deep suspicion due to instability. Female chastity was essential. Male sexual freedom tolerated. That was the attitude of first century Rome. And Peter tells men, live with your wife in an understanding way and honor her because she's a co heir of the grace of life. Boing. Then that's why I think the juxtaposition, it's kind of interesting here. It's kind of a timing issue. But when we hear a Message today from 1st Peter 3:1:6 about women submitting to men, it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That just seems really severe to women. If you were a man in the first century and you were baked in Roman culture and the apostle came along and said, dude, live with your wife in an understanding way and honor her. Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on there, wait.

[Jimmy Hicks]

Whoa, whoa.

[Todd Friel]

It would have been just as, as stinging a rebuke and command. It would have been just as difficult. And that is why I think in the context of this particular section of 1 Peter, knowing how different the commands of Christianity are in comparison to culture is an encouragement to us. This is an encouragement to us because I know there is a proclivity for all of us to be cultural warriors. We want to make a difference. That is the zeitgeist. That is I think the reason that the Christian nationalism movement is growing. Because we want to do something. We see this country, it's going down the drain. I want to do something. Here's what you can do. Instead of rebelling or revolting or resisting, here's what you. You want to be a culture warrior. Here it is. Live with your wife in an understanding way and honor her. That's countercultural. You want to be a countercultural woman? Submit to your husband. You want to be a countercultural child? Honor your father and mother. That's countercultural. And that is precisely what I think the pattern that is established in one Peter is. It does not go about the business of dismantling cultural norms or institutions. So slavery, for instance. Why didn't Peter say, hey, no slaves, big sin, don't do it. Well, first of all, it wouldn't have worked. It would have been highly impractical. But what does Peter do instead? Be a countercultural slave. Submit to your master, even if he's harsh. Why? So that the world looks and goes. That is a different kind of slave. There's something about that slave right there. So that people will get saved from your behavior. Yes, they need to hear words, but it's undergirded by your behavior, your countercultural behavior. Do you want to become a culture warrior? Then we need to be biblical. We need to be peculiar and set apart. Not by necessarily. And if you can go about the business of doing it legally, rock on. But the Bible's way of approaching societal norms that are not good is to have us behave in such a way that it causes society to look at us and scratch their heads and want to know what is our motivation. That is countercultural Christianity. It's not about resisting and revolting and rebelling. It's about being a royal priest in a hostile culture. It is about being holy. It is about being set apart. It is about being different and peculiar. Now, here's the challenge with that. It doesn't feel quite as satisfying as being an actual cultural warrior. We like to, like, let it out. We need to tell that person. We need to tell that official. We need to tell that corporation. You're doing this. Knock this up. Now, please note, I do believe that the church and Christians should speak with a prophetic voice. This isn't a one or the other, but I'm talking about if you think that you're going to change culture by harping on it and carping about it constantly, this is something we can actually do. You won't be as frustrated. You can do something. The challenge, of course, is it doesn't feel quite as. It was good to just let that out. Talk about that president who is such an idiot, can't even talk and okay, we can do something really different. Honor the king. Honor one that you disagree with. Oh, man, now that's hard. I mean, we should know this, shouldn't we? When we see the way that progressives treat the conservative president who is now in office. What do we think of them, huh? What do we think of them now? What if. What if these people who so vehemently disagree with Donald Trump actually honored him, stopped trying to shoot him and actually honored him and said whatever good thing that they could say about him that would change your attitude toward them? Bingo. With us, when they see us not honoring, it's like, well, yeah, there, there, there they go again. But when they see us honoring, even when they know we disagree, what is that? It is a testimony. And the same thing is true with a bad employer. The same thing is true with a bad husband. That we are a peculiar people because we don't do what's expected. And that, therefore, is countercultural. Question. Can we settle into that? Can we be content with the Bible's prescription for how to change culture, and that is by being peculiar and different and obeying the Lord and doing things that makes the world want to know who our savior is? Can we settle into being that kind of culture warrior and until tomorrow, go serve your king.