The Real Reason People Reject Jesus

Summary

Wretched Radio with Todd Friel

Episode: The Real Reason People Reject Jesus

Date: July 15, 2026

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Overview

In this Witness Wednesday episode of Wretched Radio, Todd Friel visits college campuses to engage students in candid conversations about religion, faith, and the unique claims of Christianity. Through two extended interviews—first with Rhys, a self-described atheist/agnostic, and then with Hannah, a student wrestling with faith and skepticism—Todd explores deep questions: Why do people reject Jesus? Is lack of evidence or the desire for autonomy the root issue? The episode focuses on direct, respectful evangelism, the differences between religious worldviews, the power of conscience, and the real underlying barriers to faith.

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Key Discussions and Insights

1. Spontaneous Evangelism & The Open Door

• Campus setting: Todd shares the ease with which everyday conversations, even about unrelated topics, can transition to spiritual matters ([00:30]).
• Witnessing Approach: “So often we're afraid to share our faith...Sometimes it's good to be prepared…Other times you meet a fellow named Rhys and the door is already open.” – Host/Narrator ([00:30])

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2. Conversation with Rhys: Examining Worldviews and Objections

Rhys’ Background and Religious Studies

• Rhys is preparing for a religion test at UGA, covering Islam, Christianity, and Judaism ([01:23]).
• Todd quizzes him on the similarities/differences between religions, leading Rhys to see that Christianity and Islam are fundamentally different in salvation, not merely surface details ([02:10], [03:01]).

Rhys' Self-Identification and Logical Inquiry

• Initially calls himself an atheist, but Todd challenges his certainty:
  Todd: “To maintain that [atheist] position, you have to have all knowledge...Do you have all knowledge of everything?”
  Rhys: “No.”
  Todd: “Therefore there's a chance that God could exist.”
  Rhys: “Yes.”
  Todd: “Congratulations, you're an agnostic.” ([03:49]–[04:31])

The Evidence for God and the Human Conscience

• Rhys wants "pretty solid evidence"—a miracle, ideally ([05:33]).
• Todd points to human design: “You're looking through [a miracle] right now—your eyes...That wasn't luck. That's a miracle. You're made by God.” ([05:54])
• Rhys invokes evolution, to which Todd responds: “I don't think that could all happen by luck and chance. I think that it takes so much design, so much complexity. Somebody had to design it and put you together.” ([06:41])
• Todd moves from intellectual proofs to conscience: “I want to go to your conscience…that area in your brain that goes, This is wrong, this is right...” ([08:02])

The Ten Commandments as a Moral Mirror

• Todd walks Rhys through the Ten Commandments, showing him his guilt:
  “So you're a coveter also...Have you committed idolatry?...So you're a thief, a coveter, and an idolater” ([08:44]–[09:43]).

The Consequence According to Scripture

• Todd: “What do you think a just and holy God should do with people who have broken his laws?”
  Rhys: “He should punish them.”
  Todd: “What is the place of punishment according to the Bible?...He’d find you guilty. What do you think God would do with you?”
  Rhys: “Send me straight to hell.” ([16:20]–[16:53])

Presenting the Gospel

• Todd explains Old Testament sacrifices foreshadowing Jesus, the ultimate sacrifice:
  “All those fuzzy pictures in the Old Testament…were pointing toward the one, the perfect lamb, who was going to die. That's right. Jesus on the cross for the forgiveness of sins.” ([17:00])
• Todd: “Can you think of an act that anybody has ever done for you that has demonstrated a greater love than that?”
  Rhys: “No. Maybe just my mother’s love.” ([19:09])

The Heart Issue: Autonomy vs. Submission

• When asked why he'd reject such an offer, Rhys admits, “Maybe you don't believe in all of his rules...I'm living my life.” ([19:36])
• Todd presses: “You prefer living by your set of rules rather than God's set of rules.”
  Rhys: “Yeah.” ([20:16])
• Todd distills it:
  Todd: “You love partying more than the God who died for you?”
  Rhys: “Yes.” ([22:40]–[22:51]) Todd: “So you like happiness more than you like Jesus?”
  Rhys: “I connect happiness to things that I do...I live my life every day in the present pursuit of happiness.” ([22:56]–[23:02])

Why People Reject Jesus

• Todd: “You're suppressing that obvious knowledge because you...basically want to be the God of your life.”
  Rhys: “Yes.” ([23:56]–[23:57])

Closing & Tender Plea

• Todd urges Rhys, “As you start to realize it's all very temporal and fleeting and your conscience troubles you, think about what I shared with you today, because God's offer stands for you.”
  Rhys: “I will take that to heart.” ([24:15]–[24:51])
• Memorable Moment:
  Todd: “Thanks for not thumping me. … I hope you do great on your test.” ([24:51–24:56])

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3. Conversation with Hannah: The "Proof" Objection and the Will

Wrestling with Belief and Doubt

• Hannah, raised in a Christian home, is on the fence about God: “Having a view where you don't really think God exists, there's not really a cosmic sense of good and evil. … But humans…should at least feel shame and guilt.” ([31:33])
• Todd asks, “If a God exists who could explain why we see good and evil...would you want to know that God?”
  Hannah: “If I got proof for it, I would. Yeah.” ([33:33], [33:49])
• She wants visible evidence: “Probably seeing them. Like, seeing is believing.” ([33:57])

Does Design Imply a Designer?

• Todd uses the microphone analogy: “We intuit there's a microphone maker because we see the microphone....We have a universe maker, therefore, equally we conclude, or where there's a universe...there's a universe maker. So God shows himself to you through his handiwork.” ([34:43], [35:19])
• Hannah is not persuaded and raises the “science explains things” objection but admits science doesn’t answer every question ([35:21], [36:34]).

Objections Rooted in Religious History & Hypocrisy

• Hannah struggles with the origins of denominations and negative behavior by Christians:
  “Religion is just kind of a cult, more or less.” ([36:53])
• Todd responds, “I wouldn't judge you based on [naughty kids]...I don't think we should judge God based on some of the actions of his presumed followers.” ([37:55])

The Core Issue: Moral Autonomy

• Todd offers a thesis:
  Todd: “The things you've mentioned...aren't genuine reasons for rejecting...as much as they are excuses...I think most of us don't like the idea of that God existing because we recognize...I'm going to have to follow his rules...So we tend to come up with some excuses to reject it, but the real issue has more to do with our will...” ([45:28]–[46:27])
• Hannah: “I feel like it is for a lot of people…I know it's an excuse for a lot of people that they'd rather, like, be hedonistic…” ([46:34]–[46:57])
• She claims, however: “I feel like I'm an inherently good person...morally, I feel like I'm pretty sound.” ([46:58])

Todd’s Law Test and God’s Judgment

• Todd walks Hannah through the Ten Commandments; she admits to lying, stealing, impure thoughts, using God's name in vain, dishonoring parents, and coveting ([47:17]–[48:55]).
• Todd: “You said you're a morally good person, but you just admitted you've broken, really, all of God's laws. Wouldn't you actually be a guilty criminal in the eyes of God?” ([49:00])
• Hannah: “In the eyes of God, sure. But as your average, everyday person…” ([49:13])
• Todd: “What really matters is what the judge thinks...If God judges you...Would he find you innocent or guilty, Hannah?”
  Hannah: “Probably find me guilty. But I also feel like laws can kind of be...arbitrary and...situational. And...the whole idea of God as...judge...it's kind of ridiculous to me.” ([49:55]–[50:36])

Justice and God's Holiness

• Todd compares degrees of earthly crime with God's higher moral standard:
  “So while it is far more grievous to actually commit the act, God sees the thought, life, and the intentions of our hearts....God's standard is so high...He hates lying and he hates cheating...” ([51:34]–[52:24])
• “If that's the God of the Bible and the God who exists, Hannah,...He’d find you guilty of breaking his laws...We’d be in hot water. We’d be in hell is where we would be.” ([52:24]–[53:13])

Gospel Presentation

• Todd: “The universal solution is he sent his son to die for us so that we could be forgiven...So that suddenly makes what seems like a scary religion a good religion.” ([53:13]–[53:52])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Congratulations, you're an agnostic." – Todd, gently shifting Rhys’ position (04:30)
• “I like happiness more than I like Jesus.” – Rhys (22:56)
• "You're suppressing that obvious knowledge because you, Rhys, basically want to be the God of your life." – Todd (23:56)
• “You said you're a morally good person, but you just admitted you've broken, really, all of God's laws.” – Todd to Hannah (49:00)
• "If that's the God of the Bible and the God who exists, Hannah,...He’d find you guilty...We’d be in hell is where we would be." – Todd (52:24)
• "He sent his son to die for us so that we could be forgiven." – Todd summarizes the Gospel (53:13)
• Host/Narrator: “Don’t be discouraged when somebody says, not interested. You and I are simply called to be faithful. We are not called to convert. That is God’s job, on God’s timetable. So just be faithful.” ([24:59])

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• Witnessing Setup, Segue Advice – ([00:30])
• Rhys Interview Begins – ([01:17])
• Religions compared – ([02:07]–[03:27])
• Atheist/Agnostic Exchange – ([03:44]–[04:31])
• Evidence and the Role of Miracles – ([05:33]–[06:41])
• The Conscience, Ten Commandments – ([08:02]–[10:40])
• Penalty According to the Bible – ([16:01]–[16:53])
• Gospel to Rhys – ([17:00]–[18:40])
• Admission of Desire for Autonomy – ([22:25]–[23:56])
• Final Appeal to Rhys – ([24:15]–[24:51])
• Transition to Hannah – ([30:12])
• Hannah’s Fence-sitting, Demand for Proof – ([31:33]–[33:57])
• Science, Suffering Caused by Christians, Skepticism – ([35:21]–[37:55])
• Will vs Excuses—Hedonism – ([45:28]–[46:57])
• Ten Commandments with Hannah – ([47:17]–[48:55])
• The Judge Analogy & Justice – ([49:00]–[53:13])
• Gospel Summation to Hannah – ([53:13]–[53:52])

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Structure & Tone

The episode is conversational, respectful, and direct. Todd seeks common ground, listens carefully, and moves from rational arguments (“design implies a designer”) to probing the conscience (“let’s see what kind of person I am and you are”). His style is gentle but firm, using humor without condescension, and always circling back to the gospel with hope and urgency.

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Episode Takeaways

• Evangelism can start naturally: Listening and being willing to engage allows unplanned conversations to become meaningful spiritual discussions.
• Objections often mask deeper issues: Many intellectual objections (“not enough proof”, “science explains it”, “Christians are hypocrites”) may actually camouflage a desire for autonomy and resistance to God's authority over our lives.
• Stepwise approach: Present common ground, explore beliefs, test by God’s moral standard, show need for a Savior, then present the hope of the gospel.
• Conversion is God’s work: Just be faithful in sharing the message, even when the outcome seems discouraging.

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For those who haven’t listened:
This episode models honest outreach, illustrating that the “real reason people reject Jesus” isn’t just a lack of evidence or misinformation, but ultimately boils down to the heart’s desire for self-rule versus surrender to the authority and love of Christ. Todd’s ministry is as much about listening and respect as it is about clearly presenting the Christian message and calling for a heartfelt response.

Transcript

[Todd Friel]

Wretched radio begins in 3, 2, 1.

[Host/Narrator]

Your first mission is to keep yourself happy.

[Todd Friel]

It's living for self that is so exhausting and frustrating because you were made to live for him. So when you begin to please him, you begin to thrive. It's not a burden, it's not a duty, it's a joy. I come alive. This is what I was made for.

It's time for Wretched Radio with Tod Friel.

[Host/Narrator]

Sometimes the door just opens itself. This is Wretched Radio on a Witness Wednesday, University of Georgia. Wandering the campus looking for somebody to witness to. Just hoping that a door would open up for me. And indeed it did. And indeed it does. So often we're afraid to share our faith because we think, huh, I'm gonna have to work so hard to segue the conversation from the realm of the physical into the realm of the spiritual. What will I use? What question will I ask? Sometimes it's good to be prepared for that. Other times you meet a fellow named Reese and the door is already open.

[Todd Friel]

We're gonna talk to this fellow who

[Host/Narrator]

I have not met yet.

[Todd Friel]

Is that correct, young man? I have not met you.

[Host/Narrator]

Correct.

[Rhys]

I'm Reese.

[Todd Friel]

Reese, nice to meet you. Hold on, let me take my little microphone here. Reese, what are you studying here at UGA right now?

[Rhys]

I'm studying for a religion test. I have right now in like an hour.

[Host/Narrator]

Really?

[Rhys]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Why are you studying religion?

[Rhys]

Because I'm required by my major.

[Todd Friel]

You have to.

[Rhys]

I have to.

[Todd Friel]

Did you want to?

[Rhys]

I don't mind it.

[Todd Friel]

Now I'm fascinated. So you're taking religion and is it all religions that you're studying right now?

[Rhys]

It's Islam, Christianity, and I think Muslim.

[Todd Friel]

It's the same as Islam. A Muslim? Buddhism?

[Rhys]

No.

[Todd Friel]

Hinduism, Mormonism, Shintoism, Oprahty. The religion of Oprah Winfrey.

[Hannah]

Okay.

[Rhys]

No, it was.

[Todd Friel]

Do you think all religions are the same?

[Rhys]

Maybe.

[Todd Friel]

All right, if I told you Islam

says you've got to keep five pillars

of the faith, and then maybe, just maybe, when you die, Allah might be pleased. You will potentially go to heaven if you've done those things perfectly and you will inherit 72 virgins. That's basically a summary of Islam and the afterlife. Fair enough.

[Rhys]

Fair.

[Todd Friel]

Christianity says all the things that you do to try to earn your way to heaven are actually self righteous. They're sinful because we have a corrupt, sinful nature. Everything we do is sinful and wrong and God must judge us. And there's no way we can earn our way to heaven. But if we repent and Put our trust in his son, Jesus Christ. Then it will be a gift given to us based on the works of Jesus and not on our works, because all of our works are like filthy rags. Little summary of Christianity. Do you think those two religions are the same?

[Rhys]

Different in detail, but it's basically the same how you're going to somewhere, you're going to heaven.

[Todd Friel]

Oh, okay, okay. But that would be like me saying, okay, you're wearing a shirt, I'm wearing a shirt, therefore we're the same.

[Rhys]

That's true.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, so basically one says, you gotta work there. Maybe the other one says it's a free gift of God because of Jesus Christ by grace alone.

[Rhys]

Okay, they're different.

[Todd Friel]

Do you think they're both valid?

[Rhys]

I'm an atheist, so I think they're valid ideas, but I don't think that they're.

[Todd Friel]

Do you think they're wrong?

[Rhys]

Yes.

[Todd Friel]

Good on you.

You do.

I appreciate that. Okay, so you think they're wrong. All right, so you're an atheist, you believe there's no God, period.

[Rhys]

I believe there's no God.

[Todd Friel]

I'm gonna try to convert you to being an agnostic.

[Rhys]

Okay. And I, I know what that means.

[Todd Friel]

An agnostic means you just don't know for sure. All right. Atheist basically a negates the word theism, which is God. So there's no God. That's your position. Definitively there's no God. But to maintain that position, you have to have all knowledge of everything that is happening, has happened. What's going on on Mars, what's going on in Nebraska, which really pretty much the same landscape. You have to know everything about everything to definitively state there is no God. Do you have all knowledge of everything?

[Rhys]

No.

[Todd Friel]

Therefore there's a chance that God could exist.

[Rhys]

Yes.

[Todd Friel]

You just don't know.

[Rhys]

I just don't know.

[Todd Friel]

Congratulations, you're an agnostic.

[Rhys]

All right. I'm an agnostic.

[Host/Narrator]

Dude, you backslid right here on this bench.

[Todd Friel]

All right.

Did you grow up in a Christian home?

[Rhys]

I grew up in a Catholic Catholic home and actually did call myself an agnostic a couple years back and switched it over to atheism just because I didn't want to believe in any kind of God.

[Todd Friel]

How calm, dude.

[Rhys]

I don't know. I think I'm a logical minded person and I like to have proof for what I think. So I guess I'm just saying against what atheist is. And now that I'm just saying that I'm agnostic because I don't have proof that there isn't A God. So I can't say that I'm an atheist, so I'm just contradicting myself, but that's okay.

[Todd Friel]

But you, you wanted to demonstrate that God doesn't exist. Why don't you like the idea of God?

[Rhys]

I think it gives false hope. I think that when you die, you probably not gonna be in the ground or dirt.

[Todd Friel]

So you want some evidence to prove that God exists.

[Rhys]

Yes.

[Todd Friel]

How much do you need?

[Rhys]

Probably some pretty solid evidence.

[Todd Friel]

All right, if I could give you

a ton of evidence, do you think you'd be convinced that God exists? A miracle.

[Rhys]

A miracle. Maybe a miracle.

[Todd Friel]

All right, I got a miracle for you. You're looking through them right now. Your eyes, over 100 million light sensitive cells right behind your eyeball, all working in coordination so that you can see, take in this information and process it in your brain so you know what's going on. That wasn't luck. That's a miracle. You're made by God.

[Rhys]

Or I was made by evolution. And I mean, just the same way that animals evolved.

[Todd Friel]

And I understand, but consider the symmetry of your eyes. Yeah, I understand, but how did it. How does a rock, or how does somebody who doesn't even understand the refraction of that there's light out there, somehow to determine that I can comprehend what's in front of me. I don't even know what the concept of sight is if I don't see anything. Okay, you don't even see darkness when you're blind. You don't see anything.

You just.

There's nothing. So how would this bench know that there's something out there to be seen and then go about the business of evolving eyes?

[Rhys]

Are you saying a bench can evolve?

[Todd Friel]

Well, ultimately, you evolved supposedly from a rock, because you came from something that didn't have life into life. So somehow you jumped from being a rock to being a human being. Okay, so somehow we came up with the idea that there's stuff out there to be seen. I can process it. I don't think that could all happen by luck and chance. I think that it takes so much design, so much complexity. Somebody had to design it and put you together. And so that, I think, is your miracle. But I think there's even more. I think you had a whole universe. This whole thing. Thing is so complex and so marvelously made. You have to just look at it and go, you know, there's a microphone maker. I've never met the guy. I've never been to the factory. But there must be a microphone maker, because there's a microphone. There must be a universe maker because there's a universe. I think the universe screams to you God exists. How's that for proof?

[Rhys]

I think the universe very, very good argument, but the Big Bang is also a great argument. And how everything can come. You guys in Christianity.

[Todd Friel]

How did you know I was a crit? Now, why didn't you think I was a Muslim or a Buddhist?

I just guessed.

[Host/Narrator]

All right, hold it.

[Todd Friel]

I'll tell you what. I'm gonna try to right now circumvent your intellect, and I'm gonna go to a different part of your brain instead of your intellect. I want to go to your conscience. It's that area in your brain that

goes, this is wrong, this is right, this is good, this is bad.

And I want to try to poke at it a little bit, okay? And see if we can stir you in your conscience. Now, I was looking at this. This is the books of the New Testament, and it describes Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Now, you said also that you like Judaism. You were studying Judaism as one of your world religions, correct? In the Old Testament, which is the Torah for the Jewish people. The laws of Moses. Do you know what those are?

I can remember Ten Commandments.

[Rhys]

Okay.

[Todd Friel]

Do you know the Ten Commandments?

[Rhys]

I do.

[Todd Friel]

Give me a couple. Stop right there. Have you ever broken that commandment?

[Rhys]

Yes.

[Todd Friel]

You've stolen something. If you knew that I stole something, what name would you give to me? What would you label me?

[Rhys]

A thief?

[Todd Friel]

Give me another commandment.

[Rhys]

Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's wife.

[Todd Friel]

Stop right there.

You ever done that? You ever covet, desired? Anything that didn't forget the neighbor's wife? Anything that didn't belong to you?

[Rhys]

Of course.

[Todd Friel]

So you're a coveter also. Give me another commandment.

[Rhys]

Thou shalt not idolatrize.

[Todd Friel]

That's right. Yeah. To make a graven image. Because God wants your affections to be for him, the one who made you and gave you life. Have you committed idolatry?

[Rhys]

Well, growing up as a Catholic, I feel like I have.

[Todd Friel]

But has God always been the primary affection in your life where you've been living for him, honoring him with everything you do?

[Rhys]

No.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, give me another commandment.

[Rhys]

Thou shall not murder.

[Todd Friel]

Have you ever done that?

[Rhys]

No.

[Todd Friel]

Let me tell you what Jesus said. He said that if you just call somebody an idiot, a moron, you're just mad at somebody. You're in danger of the judgment because that makes you a murderer at heart. You don't commit the act. But that anger God sees, very similar to Murder at the heart. Now, it's not as gross a sin, clearly, but it's still a violation of God's law and his perfect standard. Have you ever murdered somebody in your heart?

[Rhys]

I don't think I could in my heart.

[Todd Friel]

Do you drive a car?

[Rhys]

I do.

[Todd Friel]

Ever been mad at somebody down the road?

[Rhys]

I have.

[Todd Friel]

So have you committed murder in your heart?

[Rhys]

I think that's a stretch.

[Todd Friel]

All right, let me try another one. All right. Jesus said if you look with lust, you've committed adultery in your heart. No, you look like a normal guy. So I'm just going to trust that maybe you violated that commandment.

But it's none of my business.

[Host/Narrator]

Okay, God, take a little time out. Did you hear how easy that was? You ask somebody something even totally unrelated to the gospel, and it simply presents itself as an opportunity to. To witness to somebody. Don't let your segue scare you. Often, and I do mean often, I didn't consult George Barna, so I don't know the exact statistic. Not sure he always does either. But the point is, sometimes just talking to somebody will lend itself to a conversation about the gospel. And you just heard a perfect example of that. We are going to return to our conversation with Rhys. Be prepared. It's an absolute heartbreaker. Next on Wretched Radio.

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[Host/Narrator]

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[Fortis Institute Announcer]

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[Todd Friel]

LEXICON There are many words to help us understand the nature of the Bible. Words like inerrancy. The Bible is the word of God and God cannot err. Therefore, the Bible is without error. We know that God has revealed himself truthfully in the pages of Scripture. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel Pizza.

[Host/Narrator]

That was actually a recording of the original demo. This is Wretched Radio. Prepare yourself for a heartache. A young man at the University of Georgia sitting on a bench. I walked up to him, hoping to have a religious conversation. Lo and behold, he's actually studying religion. Well, how easy is that segue? You didn't have to segue from anything. You were already there. And that happens a lot in conversations. If you will just listen for your cue, let us continue my engagement with Rhys. He was studying religion. All of them. I was trying to share with him the unique nature of Christianity. We had walked through the law. We have not gotten to the sweet news of the gospel yet. And then I am going to try to encourage Rhys to choose this day, will you be on an AC DC highway, or will you get on the road to life? Prepare yourself. It's heartache.

[Todd Friel]

All right, so we just did a little summary of the commandments. Now, sometimes people think you keep the commandments and then God will accept you when you get to heaven. But here's what we've learned about you and me. We've broken those commandments. So what do you think a just and holy God should do with people who have broken his laws?

[Rhys]

Well, obviously we have a forgiving God.

[Todd Friel]

Hold on. What should a righteous holy God do? A judge who's going to judge the whole world in righteousness? What should he do with lawbreakers like you and me?

[Rhys]

He should punish them.

[Todd Friel]

What is the place of punishment according to the Bible? So, Rhys, if you died, God is your judge. The books are open. He knows your thoughts, deeds, everything done in darkness. Your whole life displayed before him. Nothing hidden. He'd find you guilty. What do you think God would do with you?

[Rhys]

Send me straight to hell.

[Todd Friel]

That's depressing.

[Rhys]

It is if you believe in hell.

[Todd Friel]

Well, it doesn't matter if you believe in it if it's true, whether you believe in it or not. It's a depressing thought because you'd be going, whether you believe in it or not. Right. Because my belief or lack thereof doesn't change reality. Okay? Now, in the Old Testament, there was a lot of talk about a Messiah to come. The New Testament reveals that Messiah as Jesus Christ. That's right. If you remember, in the Old Testament, there were a lot of lamb sacrifices. You had the Passover, you had the Day of Atonement, and they would kill a lamb for the covering of sins. And it was a fuzzy picture of something better to come. It was all pointing towards something else. There was a guy named John the Baptist who walked the earth at the time of Jesus. And he pointed to Jesus and he said, behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. All those fuzzy pictures in the Old Testament of lamb sacrifices were pointing toward the one, the perfect lamb, who was going to die. That's right. Jesus on the cross for the forgiveness of. Of sins. So the Messiah came to save you from the wrath that you will face if you die in your sins. That's the gospel of Christianity, that you can't do anything to earn your way to heaven. You've earned hell for yourself. But Jesus, because of his perfect life and his perfect righteousness, taking the wrath of the Father on your behalf, the punishment you deserve, he took for you. Even Though he knew you were going to look with lust, that you would be a coveter, that you'd be an idolater. He loved you and died for you anyway. Rose from the dead, ascended into heaven, and now this day, he commands you to repent and put your trust in Him. And he says if you will do that, he will completely forgive your sins and he will inherit you and adopt

you as his child.

That's the good news of the gospel. Now, if it's true that God himself came to rescue you, to save you, so that you could be forgiven, adopted as a child. That's true. Here's my question for you. God dying for you, even though you've sinned against Him. Can you think of an act that anybody has ever done for you that has demonstrated a greater love than that?

[Rhys]

No. Maybe. Maybe just my mother's love.

[Todd Friel]

But imagine somebody that you've offended, that you've willfully rebelled against, kind of shaking your fist at and said, don't care, don't care. I'm gonna live it my way, and I'm gonna put my affections toward other things died for you anyway. Now, why would you reject that kind offer that he is willing to forgive you?

[Rhys]

There's not many logical reasons why you would, but. Maybe you don't believe in all of his rules. I know there's a lot of sins that are pretty daily and normal life. And it's not that I'm rejecting His acceptance, but I'm living my life.

[Todd Friel]

You prefer living by your set of rules rather than God's set of rules.

[Rhys]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. See if this does anything for you. Okay. Sometimes people's perception of Christianity is that it's about keeping rules, all right? And God is kind of a, you know, authoritarian, and he wants you to live like this, and he just wants to steal all the fun from our lives. Maybe just to position this a little bit differently, If God was willing to die for you, and he is the most amazingly kind, loving being in the universe, wouldn't it really be a joy and a delight to follow him and his rules? Because we're grateful for Him?

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Rhys]

I mean, obviously, if I believed in him, then I would be grateful, but I don't.

[Todd Friel]

Here's a question that Jesus asked. What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his very soul? Your soul, the thing that lives on for forever. It's precious, right? So let's say you have whatever it is that you want to do, whatever things that you want to participate in that you enjoy today. If at the end of your life. You stand before God, the books are open, and he looks at you and says, you're guilty. You have broken my rules, and you knew it. There was a guy who sat on a bench with you when you were going to University of Georgia, Athens, and he pleaded with you to turn from your sins and put your trust in my son. And you rebelled and you wouldn't do it, even though your conscience said, I know I've done wrong, and I know I've got a problem with my court date. You lived your whole life for yourself anyway. Will it have been worth it?

[Rhys]

I think my love for life and the life that I live is stronger than any regret that I'll ever have. I feel like I have so much passion to live and pursue my own happiness. Not out of selfishness, but out of life short.

[Todd Friel]

Let me try to be specific. Are you saying that you want to just live your life any way that you want to, that's your desire? Or you just. You don't like the idea of God's rules and just taking all the fun away from you? What exactly are you trying to say here?

[Rhys]

I think I want to live my life. His rules are one thing, but.

[Todd Friel]

So let's just pick something. Partying.

All right.

You don't want to give up partying?

[Rhys]

No. Love partying.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, so could I boil it down this way? You love partying more than the God who died for you?

[Rhys]

Yes.

[Todd Friel]

So you like partying more than Jesus?

[Rhys]

I like happiness more than I like Jesus.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah. You know what?

[Rhys]

I connect happiness to things that I do. And I live my life every day in the present pursuit of happiness. And that's the one thing that defines my life, is happiness. And if I'm living a miserable life, which I am not, 100%, is going to continue on to an afterlife, why would I want to live such a short life in unhappiness?

[Todd Friel]

Well, I was trying to poke at your conscience, remember? Try to get there so that you go, you know, I do know that

I've been doing wrong.

I do know that my life has been wrong. I've got a universe that tells me there's a God. My conscience tells me I've sinned against Him. So you've got all kinds of intellectual and you've got all kinds of conscience issues going on inside of your brain, but you're suppressing that obvious knowledge because you, Rhys, basically want to be the God of your life.

[Rhys]

Yes.

[Todd Friel]

Fair enough. All right. I can't force you to do anything. I mean, it looks like you could take me anyway.

All right?

I can't force. And that's. And that's not what Christianity is about. It's not a turn or burn. That's not the message of Christianity. The message is, yeah, if you don't turn, you will go to hell. But God's so kind.

He died to save you.

And we should want to repent and put our trust in him because, wow, who wouldn't want to believe and follow that God? As you go through life, whether it's today or in months or years to come, as you start to realize the vanity, what life is when you have your next hangover or you wake up with your next heartbreak, and you start to realize it's all very temporal and fleeting and your conscience troubles you, think about what I shared with you today, because God's offer stands for you. If you'll repent and put your trust in Jesus, as wicked as you've been, whatever it is that you've done, he will completely forget it and forgive you. Because he's that good. That's all I can say to you.

[Rhys]

I will take that to heart.

[Todd Friel]

Fair enough. You are a gentleman. Really, you are. And you're patient. Thanks for not thumping me. All right, man.

All right.

I hope you do great on your test. All right.

[Host/Narrator]

While I am most certainly grateful, he's going to take it to heart, what a heartbreaker. When he flatly states, I'd rather party than have Jesus. Oh, wow. But before we get all depressed about it, there's hope for Rhys. There's hope for anyone who has heard the good news of the Gospel. Don't be discouraged when somebody says, not interested. You and I are simply called to be faithful. We are not called to convert. That is God's job, on God's timetable. So just be faithful. Have the courage to just start a conversation. You never know when it might be set up on a T for you, because it often is. Share the law, share the gospel, call them to repentance and faith. And even if they break your heart on the bench, there is still hope. This is Wretched Radio,

[Jimmy Hicks]

And it's now time for your daily Fortis news break, a production of Fortis Institute. New York City Mayor Zoran Momnami spent last week renewing his demand to abolish Immigration and Customs Enforcement. One day after an ICE officer in Houston shot and killed a Mexican national, who, according to the agency, rammed an ICE vehicle during an arrest operation and then tried to run the officer down, Momdami demanded a full independent investigation, then got to the point saying abolish ice. So a man allegedly weaponizes his car against law enforcement and the mayor of America's largest city decides the officer's agency is what shouldn't exist. Meanwhile, in Minnesota, Governor Tim Walz and his pardon board granted clemency last month to a Laotian man who repeatedly raped a 10 year old girl in the early 2000s and offered her money to stay quiet. A plea deal spared him prison. A judge ordered him deported in 2006, and he simply stayed for another 20 years. The pardon landed days before his scheduled removal and wiped the conviction off his record, with Walls insisting he could find no reason Minnesota would be safer or better with the man gone. Secretary of State Marco Rubio settled that question last week by revoking his legal status and and deporting him anyway. Oh, and let me jump back a story speaking of Mamdani, A new Pew Research center survey finds 44% of Muslim Americans hold a favorable view of Hamas. Not the Palestinian people, but Hamas, the terror group behind the October 7 massacre whose torture and sexual abuse of hostages has been documented in sickening detail. For comparison, just 4% of evangelical Christians said the same. And those numbers are appearing as fierce critics of Israel. Hamdani, chief among them, continue climbing the ranks of the Democratic Party 44%. It's not a fringe, it's a constituency. And politicians knew exactly whose votes they were courting. Out in California, lawmakers are pushing to simply bill 2540, which would force community colleges with student health centers to dispense abortion pills starting in 2029. State universities are already required to offer them. The bill's Democratic author says it closes a critical gap for diverse and economically vulnerable students. So Sacramento looks at vulnerable young women and decides what they need the most

[Fortis Institute Announcer]

is a faster way to end the

[Jimmy Hicks]

lives of their babies between classes. In the Golden State, that's what passes for compassion. But there is better news out of Missouri, where the governor signed a budget provision blocking state funds from paying for cross sex hormones, or so called gender transition surgeries for prison inmates. It closes a loophole in a 2023 law that banned the surgeries but still allowed taxpayer funded hormones with a prescription. Legal challenges, of course, are expected, but for now, Missouri taxpayers are off the hook. That wraps up today's Fortis News break. I'm Jimmy Hicks. If you want more, you can download Fortis plus or sign up to Bookmar Fortis Insider for exclusive daily content. Both can be [e-mail] and don't forget, you can subscribe to Fortis News on your favorite podcast app in order to get these updates daily and until tomorrow, go serve your king.

[Todd Friel]

Attributes of God. Can God make a rock so big he cannot lift it? God is all powerful. He created the universe and everything in it, and nothing can thwart his will. So the question of the rock is nonsensical. It does not expose a problem with God, but with the thinking of the one asking the question. And they will one day have to answer to the omnipotent God. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Host/Narrator]

Well, let's give this a go, shall we? This is Wretched Radio on a Witness Wednesday. Going to try a little blaze. Pascal. No, not. You've got a God shaped hole in your heart only Jesus can fill. So give him a go and we'll give you your money back if you don't like the results. Pascal, he offered that we should ask people if God exists, if he is this amazing. Would you like to know this God and then demonstrate that he actually is that God? So present him in a way that makes him seem magnificent and then show them that he is. I'm going to give that a go at Georgia State University.

[Todd Friel]

As you observe the world, do you ever see evil existing?

[Hannah]

I think so, yeah. Like, I think there are some people who just are inherently not good.

[Todd Friel]

People do bad things, right?

[Hannah]

Yeah. Just have no remorse or anything like that. I feel like.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah, yeah. Sociopaths, that. Okay, so when you, when you look at the planet, though, do you ever see good things, beautiful things?

[Hannah]

For sure, yeah.

[Todd Friel]

You personally, do you ever, as you're kind of just thinking and pondering, ever feel guilt for actions that you've done or things that you wish you'd done in the past that you knew you should have done?

[Hannah]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Todd Friel]

Slightly different emotion, shame, which is. Yikes. I sure hope nobody finds out about this. Do you ever have that sense.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

The emotion of fear, not of heights or going outside, but specifically, do you ever fear death and what might happen when you die?

[Hannah]

Absolutely.

[Todd Friel]

You do?

Okay.

All right, so those things. Here would be my question. Do you have an explanation for all of those things? Why do we see good and evil? Why do we sometimes feel guilty and shameful? And why does it seem that we all really do fear death? Does your worldview explain those things?

[Hannah]

I was raised, like, Christian, and so under Christianity, those things have, like, meaning. And, you know, there's an easy way to, like, explain them. But having a view where, like, you don't really think God exists, there's not really, like, a Cosmic sense of good and evil. It's just kind of, like, inherent, I guess, in some people. Or like. Like a tiger just. Is a tiger. Like, they killing something is not like good or evil. It's just what a tiger does. But humans are a little different. They have, like. I don't know, they should at least feel shame and guilt.

[Todd Friel]

A moral sense.

[Hannah]

Yeah, for sure.

[Todd Friel]

So I just kind of. What I think I heard is you grew up in a Christian home, but you yourself do not believe in God.

[Hannah]

More or less. I'm, like, on the fence still, but.

[Todd Friel]

All right, so more or less. All right, so here's. I want to keep going. And this might sound familiar to you if you grew up in a Christian home. If it's my premise, if a God exists, who could explain why we see good and evil, who can lay out an explanation that is credible and works harmoniously where it's not contradictory in any way. And if. If God, this God, could deal with our guilt problem, remove our shame that we feel, and somehow help us overcome our fear of death, if that God exists, and he is willing to deal with our guilt and our fear and our shame and make sense of the planet because he is good and because he is kind, would you, Hannah, want to know that God and be in a relationship with that God if there

[Hannah]

was proof that he existed or they existed? Sure. Yeah. Why not?

[Todd Friel]

So if that God existed, you're saying, yep, I'm in.

[Hannah]

If I got proof for it, I would. Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. Now, I think I know the reason why you might say no to that, but I'm gonna ask you. So right now, you do not believe that. That God exists, or you're on the fence about that God?

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

So what proof would it require for you to say, yep, I'm all in.

[Hannah]

Probably seeing them. Like seeing is believing. So if I were to see such a being. I suppose so.

[Todd Friel]

All right, let me.

Let me just. To see if we can define that more. In what form? How would God have to manifest himself for you, for you to go, yeah, he exists?

[Hannah]

I don't know. I haven't thought that far about it.

[Todd Friel]

So could I somehow persuade you that there is a man, probably multiple men and women, who made this microphone? Even if you never see them, could I persuade you that they exist?

[Hannah]

Well, yeah, because the microphone exists and I know how microphones are made and the process behind that and everything.

[Todd Friel]

Could I then conclude or try to lay forth for your consideration that God exists, His handiwork, what he has made, that the universe exists. You exist. You're intricately designed, far more so than this microphone. We intuit there's a microphone maker because we see the microphone. That's the proof of a microphone maker. We have a universe maker, therefore, equally we conclude, or where there's a universe, therefore we conclude there's a universe maker. So God shows himself to you through his handiwork.

Would that be fair?

[Hannah]

I guess so. But there's like scientific, like, you know, science has proven, you know, the leaves are green because of photosynthesis and, you know, other stuff like that.

[Todd Friel]

So yeah, I think science does a fine job of trying to figure out how things work, but they can't explain why things work. Why is there photosynthesis, why are there leaves? Why is there life? Why is there anything at all? I don't think science can answer those questions because the, those types of questions aren't repeatable and observable and verifiable. They're not really scientific questions and they really kind of come to the end of themselves by explaining where did all of this stuff come from and how did it get so designed. So I think still that even though science tries, it still is not as strong an argument as this microphone is to demonstrate the existence of God. That's fair, but I suspect that didn't persuade you.

[Hannah]

No, I'm still not persuaded yet.

[Todd Friel]

But were you just being polite to me about science not being able to explain it, or do you still say, nope, science has an explanation for this?

[Hannah]

I don't think it has. I mean, science doesn't have an explanation for everything. Like we don't know everything. And that's like fine to not know everything. So.

[Todd Friel]

So is, is there something else that is keeping you from believing in this God besides science?

[Hannah]

How I've seen other people interpret the word of God and what they do with that and from the just the origins of it as well, the creation of the Catholic Church and then like the Reformation, just because this one guy wanted to get a divorce, so he made his own church. And that's where Martin Luther came from as well, is he didn't believe the same things these people believed, so they started their own belief. And so religion is just kind of cult, more or less.

[Todd Friel]

But yeah, so right, yeah, you're right. Men have made a hash of it

[Hannah]

whether or not, yeah, God was real and had like a whole plan and everything because Jesus of Nazareth was real. So he was a real person. And same with like the Prophet Muhammad was this a real person. And the Mormon church guy, Joseph, whatever, he was a real person. But like whether or not their religion is like, the end all be all to, like, when I die, what's gonna happen? You know, it. I don't know.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah.

You know, the thing that I would

say, I would agree with you that humans have really made a hash of things in a lot of ways. But I would suggest to you that really doesn't have any sort of determiner as to whether or not this God actually exists. It would be like, let's say you had five kids and they were all really naughty. I wouldn't judge you based on them. I don't think we should judge God based on some of the actions of some of his presumed followers. I still think we. We need to test these claims on their face as opposed to what human beings have done with them. So you're right. I think humans have done a pretty miserable job with religion. But that still begs the question, is this God real? Does he exist? Is it true? So if we still are asking that same question, what might it be, Hannah, that would keep you from going? You know, I really like the idea that if that God exists, that's a good God. He forgives sins, he helps me with my shame, he makes sense of the world. He offers me everlasting life. That's like a really good offer. It would be like me coming up to you, and this would be trite and saying, hannah, I've got a million dollars for you. And you arguing and going, well, you know, people have done bad things with money. Well, yes, they've done bad things with money, but I've got a million dollars for you. But you kept arguing with me the problem with money or where it was printed or that it had too many trees cut down to make it and what have you. But I've got a million dollars for you, Hannah, I'm saying this. God exists and he is good and he wants to forgive you and to adopt you and to help you deal with guilt and shame and fear. What would keep you from believing that? That's still my question.

[Hannah]

I just don't have any undeniable proof, like the Bible was written by man and religion was created by man. I just don't believe it. I just think the interpretations that people have done with it, everyone has their own. They pick and choose what they want from the Bible and everything like that. So.

[Host/Narrator]

Oh, those old ruses again. Prepare to respond to them because you will inevitably get them. We will do that next. From Georgia State University, Witness Wednesday on wretched radio.

[Fortis Institute Announcer]

You know the cycle. You're not alone. Temptation hits you tell yourself, not this time. And then you do it anyway. You feel disgusted, disgusting. Afterwards, you say you're sorry, you swear it'll never happen again. And then you're alone. And it does. Slaying the Dragon this is not another strategy. This is not a Band Aid. It's not five Tips to Better Accountability this is an audio resource and it's designed to give you what you need to never fall into this temptation again. Not manage it, but actually kill it. Because let's be honest about what's on the line here. Your job, your marriage, your kids, your soul. This is not a small thing you're playing with, and deep down, you know it. Every man needs to hear what's in this resource. Every single one. Whether you're in the thick of it or you think you've got it under control. The dragon is real and it needs to be slain. Slaying the Dragon it's streaming right now for free on Fortis. Just download it on your smartphone, on your smart TV, or simply go to fortisplus.org thanks for listening to Wretched Radio today. Let me ask you a question. Have you experienced any type of real change in the areas of your life that really need it the most? Or do you find yourself just getting by, just figuring out a way to manage to the next day?

[Jimmy Hicks]

A lot of people have gotten really

[Fortis Institute Announcer]

good at managing their anger, managing their anxiety, managing the habits they've formed. But management is not the same as transformation. That's why one of the world's leading podcasts today is transformed with Dr. Greg Gifford. Greg is a professor at the Masters University and a fellow here at Fortis Institute as well. And his whole focus is helping people experience the kind of change that only comes through the sufficient Word of God. And this kind of content is only possible because of our gospel partners. If you've been blessed by our ministry, I would love to ask you to prayerfully consider joining us as an ongoing monthly gospel partner. I know you have questions about that, and we have [e-mail] wretched amazing grace amazing Gospel.

[Jimmy Hicks]

You know, we've raised a generation of

[Fortis Institute Announcer]

kids who can sing every word about Jesus, but they still can't say why the Bible is true. And the world earned that because they've spent years teaching our children that truth bends and that science outgrew God. And the reasons are there. Logic, morality, the very laws that make science work. And every single one of them points back to a creator. And when you give kids that, faith stops being something they hope is true true and become something they know is true. And it also spreads because they share it clearer with everyone around them. That's exactly what the series Irrefutable Proof of creation with Dr. Jason Lyle was built for. It's a biblical formation for a generation that needs answers. They need real ground to stand on, not just a good feeling. And that's what Dr. Lyle is doing.

[Jimmy Hicks]

New episodes of Irrefutable Proof of Creation

[Fortis Institute Announcer]

streaming right now and drop it weekly on Fortis plus. You can download the app on your smartphone, your smart TV, or simply go to fortisplus.org.

[Todd Friel]

Hermeneutics Hermeneutics is the art and science of interpreting Scripture. One key principle of hermeneutics is the analogy of Scripture. If God is consistent and the Bible is God's word, then the Bible is consistent. We can then use Scripture to interpret scripture, understanding less clear verses in light of clear verses. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Host/Narrator]

Oh, the same old laundry list. This is Wretched Radio on a witness Wednesday at Georgia State University, witnessing to a young lady trying to persuade her if you can imagine a God this amazing, would you want to know him? The answer should inevitably be yes. If a God can forgive sins, remove my shame, give me purpose in life, give me everlasting life, yeah, I'd like to know that God and then prove that he is. I endeavored to do that with this young lady and then what was I hit by? It wasn't snarky, but it was the same old laundry list. Hey, the Christians, they've done a lot of bad things. The Bible, the interpretation, translation. It's like the telephone game. People pick and choose, on and on and on they go to try to do what is it really to undermine the veracity of the Bible. Well, yeah, but it has a, I think, a grander endgame. If we can show that the Bible has problems, if that there are historical deficiencies in Christianity, that allows me to say God doesn't exist and I don't need to deal with him. That is what is going on underneath people's objections to God. And so it is. This young lady offered her objections and I offered this response.

[Todd Friel]

Tell me what you think of this premise. You might reject this, but I'm gonna. I'll state it. And then you agree or disagree that the things that you've mentioned to me

aren't

genuine reasons for rejecting the validity of those claims as much as they are excuses. Because I think most of us don't like the idea of that God existing because we Recognize if He does exist and if he's good and if he's holy and if he's God and my maker, I'm going to have to follow his rules the way that he wants me to live, and I'd prefer to live the way that I want to live. So we tend to come up with some excuses to reject it, but the real issue has more to do with our will and our lack of desire to surrender our will to the will of God.

Do you think that that maybe is

what is the underlying reason for your excuses for rejecting that God?

[Hannah]

I feel like it is for a lot of people. I'm not entirely. Like I said, I'm on the fence about the whole thing. I grew up in the church and everything like that, so I don't know. I know it's an excuse for a lot of people that they'd rather like, be hedonistic about things and then instead of, you know, living as God would intend if God did exist, but. Yeah, so.

[Todd Friel]

But you don't think that's true for you?

[Hannah]

I don't think so. No. I. I feel like I'm an inherently good person. Like, I try to do good things. I. You know, morally, I feel like I'm pretty sound, so would you be kind

[Todd Friel]

enough to let me test that claim?

[Hannah]

Sure.

[Todd Friel]

Hannah, have you ever told a lie?

[Hannah]

I mean. Yeah, everyone has.

[Todd Friel]

Oh, I agree.

[Host/Narrator]

I agree.

[Todd Friel]

All right. How many do you think you've told?

[Hannah]

At least three.

[Todd Friel]

At least three.

Okay. At least three.

All right, so if I told at least three lies, what name. What word would you use to describe me? You would call me a. I mean, a liar?

[Hannah]

I guess if you're only basing your personality on the lies you've told.

[Todd Friel]

Well, it would, but it would be sort of like a criminal, like a thief. He robs one bank. I know he's done a lot of things, but he's a thief. He might be a father, he might be an employee, but he's a thief. All right, have you ever stolen anything

[Hannah]

from, like, a store or person or just in person?

[Todd Friel]

Coins from your parents, from your mom's purse? A pen that didn't belong to you? Downloading music, whatever I get downloading music. Well, it is, right?

Yeah. Okay.

Because, I mean, we've all taken something that didn't belong to. If you cheated on somebody's paper, you took their work and used it as your own.

So that's, in a sense, stealing, too.

All right, what about moral purity? Like, always having pure thoughts. I think almost everybody would say I'M not always pure in my mind.

[Hannah]

I mean, yeah, everyone's human.

[Todd Friel]

What about taking the Lord's name in vain? Blasphemy. Using God's name as a curse word. Omg. That type of thing.

Have you ever done that?

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Ever dishonor your parents?

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Ever desired something that didn't belong to you?

[Hannah]

Yes.

[Todd Friel]

I'm kind of rattling off the Ten Commandments. Right, Right.

Yeah.

So you said you're a morally good person, but you just admitted you've broken, really, all of God's laws. Wouldn't you actually be a guilty criminal in the eyes of God?

[Hannah]

In the eyes of God, sure. But as just your average, everyday person,

[Host/Narrator]

I agree.

[Todd Friel]

But that just puts us in the same boat with a lot of other criminals, that's all. I'm with you. Look, I'm older than you, and I'm a bigger sinner than you, so I've got no problem going. Yep. I'm not a good person. I don't think I'm a good person. I think I'm a bad person who does bad things. And it sounds like you do the same bad things that I do. And the one who really matters in our judgment is not ourselves, because we all tend to think we're pretty good people. But what really matters is what the judge thinks. A criminal goes into the courtroom, he can think that he really good, but it's just irrelevant. It's really the determination of the judge. So if God judges you based on his laws, let's say the Ten Commandments, let's just say, let's create a little courtroom. You get brought in. God is the judge. He opens up the books. He knows not just what you've done, but thought, life, everything. Would he find you innocent or guilty, Hannah?

[Hannah]

Probably find me guilty. But I also feel like laws can kind of be, like, arbitrary and, like, situational. And I just. The whole idea of God as, like, a judge with, like, a gavel or whatever they're called, it's kind of ridiculous to me.

[Todd Friel]

How come?

[Hannah]

I don't know. I just don't think.

[Todd Friel]

But do you ever watch, like, the

evening news and you see these. These thugs, they hurt people and they rape people and they murder people and they get off. Doesn't that kind of cause you to go, man, where's justice? I want justice. I don't want people to do those

wicked things and get away with it.

Don't we have a sense of justice, that guilty criminals should be punished for their crimes? Wouldn't God exact the same sort of punishment from Guilty criminal. I mean, he is a judge. He is just. He does deal with criminals. We like it on earth when a criminal gets what he deserves. Shouldn't God give us what we deserve?

[Hannah]

I don't feel like some crimes are the same. I mean, like, was it like raping someone isn't, like, the same as, like, stealing chapstick from my mom?

[Todd Friel]

I agree. So I do agree with that. I think that there are different types. For instance, murdering somebody versus. I really don't like that guy's shirt. I hate that guy. There's clearly a difference in the level of crime, but that doesn't mean that they still aren't crimes. For instance, Jesus said, you've heard it said of old, thou shalt not commit adultery. I say, look, with lust you've come committed adultery in your heart. God's standard appears to be much higher than ours. So while it is far more grievous to actually commit the act, God sees the thought, life, and the intentions of our hearts. It's that we see really bad things.

Like rape.

You and I would be repulsed by rape. Correct?

Okay.

We see that.

Okay.

That's because our standard is about here. Well, God's standard is way up here. So he's repulsed by rape, but he hates lying and he hates cheating and he hates deceit, and he hates stealing and he hates blasphemy. He hates coveting. Because his standard is so high. Because he's just not like us. He's higher than us. If that's the God of the Bible and the God who exists, Hannah, the books are open on you. He knows it all. He'd find you guilty of breaking his laws. And no matter how much we protest, doesn't matter. It's the judge who determines, here's the laws, here's my standard. Here's the punishment. You and I would be in hot water. We'd be in hell is where we would be.

Right?

[Hannah]

Everyone would like. By his standards.

[Todd Friel]

I totally agree.

[Host/Narrator]

I agree.

[Todd Friel]

And I think that's the universal problem. And the universal solution is he sent his son to die for us so that we could be forgiven. God the Son took the wrath of God the Father on your behalf so that you could be forgiven if you'd put your trust in him. And that way your court case can be dismissed because somebody stepped into the courtroom of judgment and paid your fine. So Jesus has paid your fine. Fine for you. So that suddenly makes what seems like a scary religion a good religion.

[Host/Narrator]

That was it. That was how I chose to respond to the same old same old. Now, there's nothing wrong with engaging in apologetics, a defense for all of those accusations. But don't do it at the expense of presenting the gospel. Try to leave Jesus ringing in their ears. Now that was what I endeavored to do. Did Hannah fall to her knees in repentance and faith? No. But you or I cannot get that job done. Only God can. And so you and I must find a way to respond to pretty much the same old, same old accusations and make sure we open up the law to bring about the knowledge of sin. Then we preach the cross, repentance and faith, and let God do His work that only he can do. Take yourself off the hook of not having a high success rate when it comes to evangelism, because the only one that ever has success with conversion is God. And until tomorrow, go serve your King.