Todd And Dr. Lisle Discuss Aliens, Global Warming, And Transhumanism

Summary

Wretched Radio with Todd Friel

Episode: Todd and Dr. Lisle Discuss Aliens, Global Warming, and Transhumanism

Date: May 26, 2026
Host: Todd Friel (with Jimmy Hicks)
Guest: Dr. Jason Lisle (Astrophysicist, Fortis Institute Fellow)

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Overview

In this episode, Todd Friel and astrophysicist Dr. Jason Lisle dive into the cultural fascination with aliens and UFOs, current debates about climate change, and the theological and ethical questions surrounding transhumanism. The conversation is rooted in a biblical worldview, challenging mainstream scientific narratives and cultural assumptions. From debunking UFO sightings to unmasking the hysteria around climate change, and laying biblical boundaries for emerging technologies, this episode is thought-provoking for Christians seeking to engage with contemporary issues without compromise.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

I. UFOs, Aliens, and the Biblical Perspective

Cultural Fascination and Skepticism

• UFO Sightings:

  • The U.S. government confirms the existence of "unidentified flying objects," but Dr. Lisle affirms most can be explained naturally (02:18).
  • Dr. Lisle: “They’re unidentified, right? ... At this point in my life, most of it I can pretty well identify.” ([04:07])

• Cultural Thirst for Extraterrestrials:

  • Secular culture desires ETs as a substitute for God.
  • “There is a solution to all those things [like advanced knowledge and healing]. He’s called God...ETs are sort of a replacement of the biblical God.” – Dr. Lisle ([05:16])

• Motivations in Scientific Inquiry:

  • NASA’s search for life is driven by a desire to vindicate evolution and find meaning apart from God.
  • “Scientists are people, too, and we have our own worldviews…” – Dr. Lisle ([06:32])

Explaining UFO Sightings

• Common Explanations ([07:08–11:54])
  • Balloons (esp. Mylar from cruise ships): Sightings correlate with party locations on cruise routes.
    • “If you plot where these UFOs are identified, they tend to follow the lines of cruise ships having parties...” – Dr. Lisle ([08:09])
  • Drones: Nighttime drone light shows cause misidentification.
  • Temperature Inversions: Atmospheric phenomena that cause distant lights to appear unusual or upside-down.
  • Lens Flares & Satellites: Iridium satellite flares and camera effects lead to false UFO reports.
  • Rocket Launches and Meteors: These spectacular events are sometimes mistaken for alien craft.
  • “...if you don’t know what it is, you’d be like, are we under attack? What’s going on?” – Dr. Lisle ([16:44])
  • Natural and Hoax Explanations: Rare weather, common aircraft, and deliberate hoaxes round out the causes.

Scriptural Assessment of Extraterrestrial Life

• The Earth is Unique:

  • “Isaiah 45:18 says that God formed the Earth to be inhabited... seems to be the implication is the Earth is uniquely designed for life.” – Dr. Lisle ([19:11])
  • Human uniqueness is stressed by the requirement for a kinsman-redeemer (Christ) descended from Adam ([20:25]).
  • “Jesus died once for all... he’s never going to die again. So that indicates salvation is unique to earthlings.” – Dr. Lisle ([22:22])
  • If microbes were found on another planet, it wouldn’t undermine the Bible, but Dr. Lisle doubts it will happen ([23:54]).

• Scientific Considerations:

  • Science cannot easily prove a universal negative. The Earth appears special, but only God can know there is no life elsewhere ([24:57]).

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II. Climate Change: Hype, History, and a Biblical View

History of the Debate

• Terminology Shift:
  • “Ever since they discovered that the temperature over the last 20 or so years has not been warming, they changed it to climate change...” – Dr. Lisle ([30:17])

Natural Climate Cycles & Biblical Confirmation

• Evidence for Climate Fluctuation:
  • The climate naturally shifts over centuries (Medieval Warming Period, Little Ice Age).
  • “Warmer temperatures are actually good because...increased plant growth...” – Dr. Lisle ([33:11])
  • After the biblical flood, conditions were ideal for an Ice Age, reflected in Scripture (Genesis, Lot and Abraham) ([31:19]).

Critiquing Mainstream Assertions

• Skepticism of Data and Projections:

  • Our ability to reconstruct exact temperatures from centuries or millennia ago is limited.
  • “It’s not as precise, it’s not as exact...We can infer general trends.” – Dr. Lisle ([35:29])
  • Current temperature averages vary widely based on measurement location.

• Human Carbon Impact Overstated:

  • Carbon dioxide is not the most significant greenhouse gas; water vapor plays a bigger role ([37:13]).
  • “Even by the most generous estimates, human beings only put out about one third of the carbon dioxide that is in our atmosphere...One volcano puts out more than all of humanity in a year.” ([37:15], [38:22])

• Predictions of Catastrophe Unfounded:

  • Warnings of runaway global warming (“catastrophic climate change”) are not settled science, even within the climatology community ([38:35]).
  • Increased CO₂ can be beneficial—crops grow better (carbon fertilization) ([39:03]).

• Scripture’s Promise:

  • Genesis 8:22 provides assurance that the essential climate cycles will continue and Earth’s temperature won’t spiral out of control ([45:00]).

How to Respond to Climate Alarmism

• Key Counters:
  • Modest warming is not inherently harmful—can lead to higher crop yields and fewer deaths from cold ([44:33]).
  • “Doubling the carbon dioxide...would not double the Earth’s temperature. It would go up just a little bit...” – Dr. Lisle ([45:00])
  • Alarmism benefits those in power, using fear as a motivator for control ([46:19]).

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III. Transhumanism: Technology, Ethics, and Theology

Defining Transhumanism

• What Is It?
  • The attempt to enhance humans via technology—DNA manipulation, combining anatomy with machines ([47:11]).
  • “Any technology can be used for godly purposes or for wicked purposes...What is the goal?” – Dr. Lisle ([47:53])

Biblical Guidelines

• Restoration vs. Enhancement:

  • If tech restores function lost to the Fall (illness, injury, disability), it’s good.
  • Making humans “superhuman” strays from God’s design.
  • “Are we pushing the human condition to be more like God intended it to be, or...away from...God intended it?” – Dr. Lisle ([47:53])
  • “Giving him an arm...to curl 800 pounds...that is a problem, because...then they can replace...with...artificial.” ([50:07])

• Examples:

  • Restorative: Artificial limbs for injured; curing genetic diseases; biblical parallel with Jesus healing.
  • Enhancement: Trying to be “better” than God’s design—echoes the temptation in Eden ([52:41]).
  • “The original sin...we get to be like God.” – Dr. Lisle ([52:41])

• Transableism vs. Transhumanism:

  • Rejects the idea that feelings (wishing to be “disabled” when not) should dictate reality ([51:33]).

Gene Editing, Animal Testing, and Christian Ethics

• Gene Editing:
  • Curing disease (like cancer) through correcting genetic mutations is endorsed, as long as it restores to original design and doesn’t involve immoral practices (e.g., fetal stem cells) ([53:05]).
• Animal Testing:
  • Permitted when done ethically—humans have dominion over animals, but cruelty is wrong ([54:00]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “ETs are sort of a replacement of the biblical God.” – Dr. Jason Lisle ([05:48])
• “If you plot where these UFOs are identified, they tend to follow the lines of cruise ships having parties and...so it makes sense.” – Dr. Lisle ([08:09])
• “We never get that follow-up story, do we?” – Todd Friel, on UFO explanations ([10:46])
• “The Bible suggests that, no, there’s not life out in space...the Earth is uniquely designed for life.” – Dr. Lisle ([19:11])
• “Jesus died once for all...so that indicates that salvation is unique to earthlings.” – Dr. Lisle ([22:22])
• “When people say, ‘What about global warming?’ I’m like, bring it on.” – Dr. Lisle ([33:11])
• “We want some greenhouse effect. So that’s not the issue...Most of the carbon dioxide is natural, and carbon dioxide is not the main greenhouse gas anyway.” – Dr. Lisle ([38:22])
• “Genesis 8:22...we have a promise from God that runaway global warming cannot happen.” – Dr. Lisle ([45:00])
• “Are we pushing the human condition to be more like God intended it to be, or away?” – Dr. Lisle ([47:53])
• “The original sin was the attempt to be like God...Her response should have been, ‘No, I’m going to be exactly the way God made me, because that’s best.’” – Dr. Lisle ([52:41])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:46 – Introduction to the UFO/Aliens discussion
• 02:50–11:54 – Explaining common causes for UFO sightings
• 19:11–24:57 – Does the Bible or science support extraterrestrial intelligent life?
• 29:49–36:26 – History, evidence, and terminology of climate change
• 36:26–40:03 – Human impact, CO₂, and the greenhouse effect
• 44:33–46:03 – Biblical and scientific counters to climate alarmism
• 47:11–54:20 – The ethics of transhumanism, restoration vs. enhancement, and gene editing

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Summary Table:

| Segment | Topic | Main Insight | Notable Quote/Note |
|---|---|---|---|
| 01:46–11:54 | UFOs & Aliens | Most UFOs have natural explanations, longing for ET = substitute for God | “ETs are sort of a replacement of the biblical God.” ([05:48]) |
| 19:11–24:57 | Bible & Aliens | Earth’s uniqueness, salvation only for Adam’s descendants | “Jesus died once for all…salvation is unique to earthlings.” ([22:22]) |
| 29:49–40:03 | Climate Change | History shows natural cycles & limited human impact | “Most of the carbon dioxide is natural.” ([38:22]) |
| 44:33–46:03 | Addressing Alarmism | Modest warming has positives; Genesis 8:22’s promise | “Runaway global warming cannot happen.” ([45:00]) |
| 47:11–54:20 | Transhumanism | Good = restorative, Bad = enhancement/playing God | “Are we pushing…the way God intended?” ([47:53]) |

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For Further Exploration

• Listen to Dr. Jason Lisle’s full presentations at fortisplus.org
• Visit his website: biblicalscienceinstitute.com/org
• Recommended episode for listeners skeptical of mainstream narratives about science/faith

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Conclusion

This episode of Wretched Radio with Todd Friel and Dr. Jason Lisle offers a scripture-centered analysis of aliens, climate change, and transhumanism. By combining scientific expertise with a biblical worldview, they provide a toolkit for Christians to discern truth, resist cultural pressure, and approach innovation with wisdom and humility.

Transcript

[Todd Friel]

Hi, this is Todd Friel, executive director of Fortis Institute. Before we get to the podcast, might I encourage you to please join us in not retreating? Perhaps you've noticed in your news feed a lot of pressure on Christians to retreat, whether it is in the form of legislation, in persecution, or just outright bias. We are determined to stand firm, not water down the truth, and continue to make resources that encourage and equip the saints to defend and share their faith. We also love to support and undergird local churches, and we are determined to do so. And right now we have a matching gift campaign, which means if you join us now as a gospel partner, your gift will double. Would you please consider joining us on our mission as we are determined to not retreat? Fortisinstitute.org donate.

[Wretched Radio Announcer]

Important Dates in Christian history 1854 Charles Haddon Spurgeon becomes pastor in London and will go on to become one of the most influential pastors ever. He was the central figure in defending the Gospel against compromise during the downgrade controversy. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Jimmy Hicks]

Welcome. And welcome in this is not Todd Friel. This is Jimmy Hicks in the studio for Todd Friel, who is actually talking with Dr. Jason Lyle today, one of our Fortis Institute fellows. And they've got a lot on the docket today that they are discussing and talking about, and they're going to kick it off with something that I know we're all interested in. If aliens are real.

[Todd Friel]

Have you seen one? Have you seen a UFO flying around? If not, go to the YouTube machine. They're all over the place. They seem to be all the rage. True. The government is actually affirming there are unidentified flying objects, which I would actually affirm there are unidentified flying objects. Dr. Jason Lyle, our Fortis fellow, joining us in studio. Do you have a problem with unidentified flying objects?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

No.

[Todd Friel]

I mean, because they're unidentified.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

They're unidentified, right? Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

So cool describing that. There's something from outer space and you got kazoo piloting some sort of flying machine. All right. This is also one of your areas of expertise besides being an astrophysicist. And I don't want to share your discovery because I have no idea. What did you discover or what did you. There was something about stars and things. Well, you discovered something that is attributed to you.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

I've discovered a few things. I've discovered a few things. One thing I discovered in my doctoral research was giant cell boundaries. Oh, those are. Yeah, those are large overturning cells on the sun that were predicted to exist theoretically, but I was actually able to detect them using the SOHO spacecraft and using some computer programs that I wrote, I was able to detect the boundaries of these giant cells.

[Todd Friel]

See, that's why you and I get along so well, because of our shared interest in things like this that you're talking about. So outer space. And of course, you cover UFOs, it seems. I think we've had them since the Twilight Zone. We're kind of fascinated by this. And isn't it funny, by the way, how often even today when somebody tries to draw a picture of an extraterrestrial, they look eerily similar to what we were doing in the 50s.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Yeah. Isn't that interesting?

[Todd Friel]

So unimaginative, Right. If you're going to create something, how's about it doesn't look at all like anything in God's creation? Why don't you try to. Nevertheless, before we get to extraterrestrials, UFOs seem to have been making a comeback, that there's been more sightings and that even if I recall that the government was saying, yeah, we think that there's UFOs out there. Are there UFOs out there?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Well, if you don't know what something is and it's in the sky, to you, it's a ufo. To me it's probably an ifo. It's an Identified Flying object. Because most things that, I mean, I spend a lot of time outside at night as an astronomer looking up. And so I've seen a lot of cool stuff. And at this point in my life, most of it I can pretty well identify.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah. And I've actually, from some of your work, I've got the list of explanations which I think are super fascinating. Why do you suppose we almost seem to want, as a culture, we want these Unidentified Flying Objects. We like it. Why?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

I think it's interesting. It's something that's novel. But I think especially secularists, they want UFOs because they want there to be intelligent life out in space.

[Todd Friel]

I think that's it too.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Yeah. Yeah. And again, I think it from a rejection of the biblical God, because I've had the opportunity to talk with a number of secularists that. I mean, there are people who are the programs, like seti. I think that's more or less defunct now. But nonetheless, there are searches for extraterrestrial intelligence. Why do you want to find life in space, my secular friend? And a lot of times they'll say things like, well, it'd be nice to know that we're not alone in the universe. And maybe there's.

[Todd Friel]

We're not.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

We're not. Yeah, I know. That's my point. And that's my point. Or there would be nice if there was some civilization, some life out there that had the answers to life's questions, or maybe, maybe they have advanced technology where they could heal our diseases and so on. And I'm thinking, oh, yeah, there is a solution to all those things. He's called God. Right. Because we're not alone in the universe, and God can heal our diseases, and God's the one that has the answers to life. When you reject that God, that need for him remains. And I think that ETs are sort of a replacement of the biblical God.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. Without getting black helicoptery. Not that I'm not opposed to those things, but NASA and its desire to find life on Mars and other planets. Do you think it's the same motivation that drives that?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Yeah, it is. And to vindicate evolution, too. Because the idea is that life evolved on Earth and probably evolved elsewhere. So those two convictions are why they want to fight life.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. Somebody might say, come on. No, it advances technology by having some sort of a goal. It helps us. We wouldn't have the computers we had if it weren't for that. But worldview is lurking behind everything. And we would be silly to think that it doesn't include NASA and their desire to try to find life out there.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Scientists are people, too, and we have our own worldviews. And that affects not only the conclusions that we draw, but the motivations, the various programs that are going to be funded, the reason for that funding, and so on. And yes, we can take the technology that I think has been misused to try and find life and nonetheless use those discoveries to glorify God. Which is really the best reason to explore space is to glorify God so we can use that. But nonetheless, I would disagree with their motivations for doing a lot of these things.

[Todd Friel]

All right, so unidentified flying objects you believe are IFOs, which means we can identify them?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

In most cases, yes.

[Todd Friel]

Here's your list. This is from your website, biblicalscienceinstitute.org Are you a pagan? I thought it was a Christian ministry.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

We have the dot org, too, but

[Todd Friel]

you go with the dot com. Yeah, you got to get. You got to get all these days, otherwise you're in big trouble. All right. You start out with balloons.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Yes. You know, especially Mylar balloons. We found that, you know, a lot

[Todd Friel]

of times, pilots from the parties.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

From the parties on the ship.

[Todd Friel]

Stop it.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Yeah, we found that the, if you, if you track where these UFOs are found, it's almost always along the lines of cruise ships. Isn't that interesting?

[Todd Friel]

No. So they're coming off of boats and it's these, these inflatable balloons that you bring to a party.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Right.

[Todd Friel]

They're letting them fly and people are seeing them. They're picking it up perhaps in some sort of. Of looking glass.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

And you think they're balloons?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

A lot of them are, yeah.

[Todd Friel]

And now is that, has that been verified or is that just speculation?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

It's been verified that if you, if you plot where these UFOs are identified, they tend to follow the lines of cruise ships that are having parties and. Yeah, so it makes sense.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. Now, the one thing about that explanation, though is, you know, a balloon is this big. How is somebody going to see a balloon this big and it looks kind of like a fuzzy sort of spaceship?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Well, some of them are Mylar, where they reflect the sunlight really well. You catch the sunlight at a bright angle and you see this bright, bright spot. Or they'll pick it up on their. I mean, they have other scanning instruments. It's not necessarily by eye, right? Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

When these pictures that we see or these videos that we see, typically that's not just like somebody's cell phone showing these. What are they looking through to see these objects?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Yeah, there are different. There are instruments that they use to, you know, to lock on with their missiles and so on. And I've seen, I've seen some of these where, you know, it looks like it's rotating and things like that. I'm like, I know what's going on there because when the thing moves, it has to physically turn, but then the, the computer uprights it. So that's why it looks like it's spinning that way. And then the line is caused by an overexposure of the surrounding pixels. I've seen that kind of thing because I've taken pictures with a CCD through my telescope and I get the same, I get the same effect. So I can tell what's causing that.

[Todd Friel]

Balloons from cruise ships?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Some of them, yes. Isn't that interesting?

[Todd Friel]

But the good news is it does get millions of views because we sure do love the idea of the UFOs. And by the way, who is the nerd who tracked that? These, identified these. These objects were in the, the shipping lanes of cruise ships.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

I don't know who did this thing?

[Todd Friel]

Who put that together? That's fascinating. But there are other explanations, including, and this makes some sense. Drones yeah, they're everywhere.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Yeah. There are companies that do light shows with drones now. You can hire them and they'll do a. Wow. Yeah, yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Lasers, I presume.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

I don't know exactly how it works, but they organize the drone and they have lights on them and they can do at night and do different shapes and things. I've seen videos of them. I've not seen them in person.

[Todd Friel]

And they are a flying object, but because of the technology or maybe the speed or the distance, it's a little blurry. So we ascribe ufo and you're saying it could be a drone.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Yeah. All right.

[Todd Friel]

And have we, with any of these, this laundry list that you have, have we discovered any. It's like, oop, there's the balloon. Oop, there's the drone. Or is this just our thinking that it could be.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Well, I think in some cases. Yeah, I think in some cases we know that. We know that's, you know, you get closer and you go, oh, it's a balloon. You get close enough. Oh, there's the drone. Oh, there's the guy driving the drone, you know. Yeah, in some cases we know.

[Todd Friel]

We never get that follow up story, do we?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

No, we don'. That's not interesting. That's not exciting.

[Todd Friel]

Exactly. And that's the problem with gossip too, by the way. All right. Temperature inversions can cause all sorts of interesting visual effects. Splain.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

So a temperature inversion, normally as you go higher, the temperature gets cooler, but in some cases you'll get an inversion where as you go up and it gets warmer and that creates a very stable sort of condition. But it also causes light to refract in unusual ways. And I've seen this happen. I've only seen it once, but I've seen it happen. It happens especially in areas that are very, very flat. And it will cause what's in the distance to appear upside down. It is remarkable. There are sand dunes from which you can see the Chicago skyline. And if you get an inversion, the skyline will look upside down, the buildings will be upside down. I've seen pictures of this. It's remarkable. And if you didn't know what was going on, you're saying, why does the city look upside down? But it can distort other things that are in the distance as well and make them flipped. So light refraction, light does refract and temperature inversions will do that.

[Todd Friel]

And it could cause some of these supposed sightings.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Yeah, there was, in fact, there was, there were some lights in. I forget if it was someplace in the Southwest, I think Texas or someplace like that, where they were seeing UFOs along the horizon and they then later discovered that it was due to traffic, it was due to car lights on on a highway. But it only happened during temperature inversions where you could see farther than you normally can because of the way the light refracts and if there's no traffic, you don't see that. Isn't that interesting? And so they were able to correlate that.

[Jimmy Hicks]

And we have much more of this conversation with Todd and Dr. Jason Lyle coming up next on Wretched no Retreat that's the name of Fortis Institute's spring match campaign, and here's why. The culture we live in right now has made it pretty clear it has very little interest in the true gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. We're being told to keep our faith quiet in public or to soften what we believe so it goes down easier. Fortas Institute has no intention of doing either one. We exist to advance the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, and this spring we're doing it as loudly and as boldly as we know how. Your gift will help launch two new podcasts. It puts puts Todd Friel's new book, Go Serve youe King into print through HarperCollins, and it puts the gospel back onto college campuses where it's least welcome and most needed. Our goal is $250,000, and we're asking if you would prayerfully consider helping us get there. You can find out more right [e-mail] donate

[Todd Friel]

perhaps you've been wondering, is there a Christian university that isn't woke or that hasn't compromised on important biblical doctrines like, you know, the Age of the Earth? There is. It's the Master's University in Southern California. Beautiful campus. All of the athletics and activities that you've come to expect from universities. But it's more than that. The academic programs are most excellent, preparing students for for the future. The Washington Post just said number six for preparing students for the real world. All that plus the Master's University isn't woke and it is thoroughly biblical. Would you like to learn more? I encourage you to visit the Master's University at Masters. Edu Wretchedmasters. Edu Wretched.

[Wretched Radio Announcer]

Titles of Christ in the Bible, Jesus is given many titles that teach us about who he is and what he has done. Jesus is called our Passover. During the first Passover, God spared those whose doors were covered with the blood of Lamb. When we trust in Christ, we are covered by his blood so that we are spared from God's wrath. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel,

[Jimmy Hicks]

and we are back here on Wretched Radio. I'm Jimmy Hicks in the studio for Todd Today, who's having a conversation with Dr. Jason Lyle, one of our Fortis Institute fellows. In the middle of Talking about aliens, ETs, are we alone in the universe? I mean, if you ask me, which nobody has. If they are out there, they probably

[Todd Friel]

already decided to skip us from your article. Lens flames are a common source of UFO reports.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Lens flares.

[Todd Friel]

I need my glasses.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Yeah, well, there are. There used to be, and I don't know that they're happening anymore. But there was a company called Iridium, phone company, and they had satellites in orbit. And these satellites, I think they've all deorbited now. But these satellites, when they would catch the sun at a certain angle, it would be incredibly bright light and brighter than Venus. They were stunning. And they're predictable. There's a website where you can go and you can. You can calculate because this. The website uses a little Java app to calculate when a particular spot on Earth will be illuminated by these satellites. And I used to, when I was back in grad school and I was doing sessions with my students, I'd say, hey, look. Look up right there, and wait about five seconds, and then this bright star would appear and then vanish. And they were. Whoa. You know, in the ancient world, I would have been crowned a king for being able to see that.

[Todd Friel]

That's right.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

But today you can, you know, you can predict it on the Internet. Now, the. Those particular satellites, I think, have all been deorbited. But nonetheless, certain times, satellites will catch the sun at the right angle and you'll get this bright flare, and they're stunning. And if you don't know what it is, you'd be like, are we under attack? What's going on?

[Todd Friel]

Sure.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

All right, so like I said, lens

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

flames or lens flares.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, fine. Let's not quibble. Rocket launches are occasionally reported as UFOs.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Yeah, that happens. Especially when one blows up, which does occasionally happen. But, yeah, they're. You know, they look spectacular. If you've ever seen a rocket launch. I got to see the space shuttle launch when I was a kid, and it was a night launch, and it was absolutely spectacular. But if you didn't know what was going on on, you know, there's this object that's going up. It looks like it's going up into space. It is. It's called a rocket. Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

And we're doing it right, and we're identifiable.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

All right, so that could be an explanation. Various kinds of meteors may be reported as UFOs.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Yeah. I mean, most meteors, most people zip. And, you know, falling star. And most people recognize that that's. That's a falling star, that's a meteor. But occasionally get one that comes in at a very shallow angle and it'll look very bright. And it just, it startles people because it's not, it's not what they're expecting. Or a very slow meteor, especially a satellite reentry. Satellite reentries look like a very slow meteor. I've only seen a couple in my life. They're spectacular. Very bright falling star. And it's stunning to watch if you don't know what it is. To you, it's a ufo.

[Todd Friel]

How much time do you spend with your neck crane looking up in?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Quite a lot. Although not as much this time of year because it's cold out. But during the summer, I love to go on a summer night and look up and see what I can see.

[Todd Friel]

And are you. How often are you surprised? Surprised, not terrible or maybe like, when in the world is that. Do you ever have those conundrums anymore?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Not anymore. Not anymore. There were certain things that I saw when I was younger. I remember seeing there was a certain. There are certain kinds of cloud phenomena where you'll get the sun or the moon reflecting off a cloud in an unusual way. Some common ones are lunar halos, which I recognize those easily. But there are other ones too, that are a little more rare. And I remember seeing one of those when I was. It was back in the 90s and I had access to a telescope and I pointed out and was like, yeah, it's a cloud reflecting the moonlight. It's about 9 degrees relative to the moon. Yeah, that's what it is.

[Todd Friel]

Wow. All right, so you've got a rare atmospheric phenomenon, and your list goes on and on. Aircraft, could be a UFO and just some flat out hoaxes. All of that to say, how does the Bible help us answer the question, is there extraterrestrial life out there?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Well, the Bible gives an overview of everything of the universe. And so that's the first place I would look if I wanted to know if there's life out in space. And I would say the Bible suggests that, no, there's not life out in space. Because if you look at Genesis, the Earth really is very special. Isaiah 45:18 says that God formed the Earth to be inhabited. And although it doesn't say, and he didn't form the rest of the universe to be inhabited. That seems to be the implication, is that the Earth is uniquely designed for life. And indeed, in Genesis, if we look at the creation days, five of the six creation days, God is working on the Earth, making it right for life. He takes one day, day four, that first Wednesday, and creates everything else. All the other stars, all the other planets. The Hebrew word Kochab would include stars and planets. So all the other planets besides Earth are made on day four, Earth. God spends five of the six creation days working on Earth. It's the focus of his creation.

[Todd Friel]

All right, so it doesn't say there's no life out there.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Correct.

[Todd Friel]

But it aims toward. This is where I do life on this planet.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

That seems to be the implication.

[Todd Friel]

All right, would there be any other biblical leanings to help us answer the question, does ET Exist?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Yeah. If you wanted to think about civilizations out there in space, Vulcans and Klingons, I like science fiction. I enjoy it. But the biblical universe, the real universe, doesn't seem to support that. God says he is made from one blood or from one man, all nations. And so that's interesting. That means there can't be other nations out there in space because then they would not be descended from Adam. And it affects our theology as well, because if you have Vulcans and Klingons out there, you realize they can't be saved because according to the Bible, according to biblical law, it has to be a relative to take your place to redeem you. The principle of the kinsman redeemer. And so it has to be a relative of you, a relative of Adam, a descendant of Adam that takes our place on the cross to pay for our sins. But Lieutenant Wharf, he's out of luck because he's not descended from Adam. And so if he sinned even once, he's got a problem because Jesus can't pay for his sins. Now, the comeback would be, well, some people would say, well, maybe Jesus went and became a Klingon and died for them.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, that's pretty fantastic.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

But then the problem with that is the Bible says he died once for all he was raised incorruptible, and that means he's never going to die again. So Jesus died once, and it was on Earth that Jesus paid for the sins of all human beings.

[Todd Friel]

I'm trying to imagine. Are there any Christians that argue for ET and twist their. I mean, you just said that they would be. They would say that maybe Jesus appeared somewhere else in Klingon form to Die for them. That's just totally fantastic. I mean, there's no basis. I mean, that. Isn't that kind of stretching the Bible beyond what it can bear in order to somehow justify the idea of E.T.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

yeah, I think it is. And there are Christians that do that, and there are Christians in the past who have done that.

[Wretched Radio Announcer]

Really?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

You see, I could have made that up, but I would have been silly in doing it. But you're saying no people seriously took that position.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Yeah. And then my counter argument again would be he died once for all. He's raised incorruptible, which means he's never going to die again. So that indicates that salvation is unique to earthlings.

[Todd Friel]

All right, okay, I'm playing with this in my head a little bit. So maybe these being. But they're not human beings. So they're just like an animal, they're like a cat. They aren't going to live for forever, so they just die and that's the end of it. So there we can have E.T.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

well, some people would argue that. And then my question would be, why do they die when Adam was the one that sinned? The animals on Earth die because they are under Adam's dominion. God gave Adam dominion over every living thing that creeps on the Earth. But if you have beings out in space, they're not under Adam's dominion. Why would they die as a result of. Of Adam's sin? And yet the Bible indicates all creation groans under this bondage of corruption. So how can that be? It makes sense if the living beings are confined to Earth and we're all under Adam's authority.

[Todd Friel]

All right, now that's the biblical leaning that would indicate no ET But I think you would argue that there is science that actually points toward no. ET Isn't going to be phoning home anytime soon. But what if, Dr. Lyle, what if NASA, I think water seems to be like the thing that they're just dying to find out there someplace for the Christian worldview. And you saying, hey, there's probably not life out there. What if they did find water? What if they did find a microbe that appears to be a living thing? Would that undermine the Bible?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

No, because the Bible again, doesn't say there are no microbes in space, doesn't say there's no life in space. That seems to be. It seems to be the implication that. Well, I've argued that you'd have theological problems if you have intelligent beings, beings that are made in God's image on other planets, because then they can't be saved. So that's a problem. If you had animals on another planet, that wouldn't necessarily be a theological problem. I just think the Bible hints that that's probably not the case. That because God put Adam in charge of, he gave him dominion over all the creeping things that creep on the earth and so there would be animals that would not be under Adam's dominion. It creates some theolog tension, but I don't think it would be, it wouldn't refute the Bible, let's put it that way. That being said, I don't expect to find that out in space.

[Todd Friel]

You know what, I'm just, just, just thinking that people bristle these days at the idea that this, this blue dot is special because everything is the same and we couldn't be better than outer space, could we? All right, real quick, give me one scientific proof that ET isn't phoning home anytime soon.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Well, scientifically I'm not sure I can do that. Scientifically, I would argue that the Earth is very special, but we don't know the rest of the universe. It's very hard for science to prove a universal negative like that. The only way we could know that there's no life in space is if God does.

[Todd Friel]

But until they come up with some sort of scientific proof, the burden, it's not on us, it's on them. Dr. Jason Lyle, loaded with gold. Find him at Fortis Plus.

[Jimmy Hicks]

What an interesting conversation that was. I mean, how many times do you actually get an opportunity to sit down and speak with someone, an astrophysicist about space stuff? It's not very often that I get that opportunity. So listening to Dr. Jason Lyle speak about these things today has been extremely interesting. We have Much more from Dr. Lyle and Todd still to come. They're taking conversations somewhere else next on Wretched Radio. It's now time for your daily Fortis news break, a production of Fortis Institute. The IPCC, which is the UN's top climate panel, they're retiring their most extreme doomsday scenario. It's the one called RCP 8.5. Scientists are now saying those projections have become, quote, unquote, implausible. But for more than a decade, the worst case scenario model was waved in our faces to justify all of the panic and the billions of dollars in research. President Trump took a victory lap. Of course he did. Saying that Americans were scared for 15 years over numbers that turned out to be just plain wrong. Yeah, it is funny how the science sells once the alarm's done its job. Speaking of Catching up with reality over at msnbc, the panel had a genuine moment of discovery. Host Katie turb word aloud that House Speaker Mike Johnson was somehow putting God above the Declaration of Independence after he said our rights come not from government, but from our Creator. Someone might want to point out that the Declaration of Independence is exactly that, endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights. That's not Christian nationalism, that's 8th grade civics. That kind of thing explains a whole lot about modern media. In California, the assault on girls sports continues to roll on. The name AB Hernandez is still out there competing in state track preliminary some male athlete and he just recently swept the high jump, long jump and triple jump at sectionals against girls. A former pin swimmer points out that his long jump would have meddled in the 1960s Olympics against the best women on the planet. And the brilliant fix suggested by California a pilot program that hands out two first place plaques so the real female winner can share the podium with a boy that likes to pretend. Governor Gavin Newsom calls the angry parents cynical. No, they're not cynical, Governor. Their mother is watching their daughters lose something real and being told the problems, their attitude. The cost of an open border came due again in Missouri, where a Colombian national who entered illegally under the Biden administration was sentenced to to 25 years for raping a 12 year old girl and getting her pregnant. A DNA test put the probability of paternity at 99.9999999 for a cent. He never should have been in this country. Meanwhile, the Trump administration just hired 82 new immigration judges, most of them former ICE attorneys and military officers. And accountability is making a comeback on a couple of fronts as House Republicans are escalating their crackdown on Medicaid fraud after the Justice Department charged fear 15 people in a $90 million scheme and the FBI just shut down an overseas call center in India that swindled hundreds of elderly Americans out of millions. Turns out the federal government can protect your grandmother. It just has to want to. And that wraps up today's Fortis newsbreak. I'm Jimmy Hicks. If you want more, you can download Fortis plus or sign up to become a Fortis Insider for exclusive daily content, both of which can be [e-mail] and don't forget, you can subscribe to Fortis News, all your favorite podcast apps in order to get these updates daily. And until tomorrow, go serve your king.

[Wretched Radio Announcer]

Important Dates in Christian history 1854 Charles Haddon Spurgeon becomes pastor in London and will go on to become one of the most influential pastors ever. He was the central figure in defending the Gospel Against Compromise during the down controversy. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Jimmy Hicks]

No, I am not Todd Friel, but this is Wretched Radio. I'm Jimmy Hicks, in for Todd Friel. Actually, I'm not in because he's here too. Anyway, he's having A conversation with Dr. Jason Lyle today, one of our Fortis Institute fellows, an astrophysicist. Just a fancy way of saying he's really, really, really smart. They've been talking about life on other planets. Now they're going to be talking about the life of this planet.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Is it warm in here or is

[Todd Friel]

that just global warming? Dr. Jason Lyle, one of our Fortis fellows, you are also very prolific on all kinds of issues regarding creation, origins, outer space, and you tackle the subject that is all the rage these days, climate change. Or is it global warming? What is the history with this little semantic game that we're seeing played?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Well, ever since they've discovered that the temperature over the last 20 or so years has not been warming, they changed it to climate change. That way, no matter what happens, they can say, hey, we were right.

[Todd Friel]

Oh, I see. But climate change, I mean, to call fluctuations in temperatures or the amount of rain, how long of a pattern would we need to see to be able to scientifically establish we are actually seeing the climate change? Because there's a difference between weather and climate.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Exactly. Weather would be short term fluctuations in conditions like temperature and rainfall and so on, whereas climate refers to those conditions over a very long period of time, decades, at least, maybe a century. And so if we're seeing things change from century to century, that would be climate change. And the surprising fact is, yes, the climate does change from time to time. There is evidence of that, not only scientifically, there's evidence in scripture that the climate has changed, for example.

[Todd Friel]

So you're a progressive liberal. What happened to you? Where did you go? So you're saying the climate can change, but needs to be understood. So frame it.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Of course, of course. For example, we think after the worldwide flood, we think that there was an ice age after that. And people get confused on that when they think ice age. They think, well, the Earth was just a frozen snowball. That's actually not what it means. It just means there was more ice on the Earth than there is today. Today The Earth's about 10% covered with glaciers. During the peak of the ice age, it was 30% covered with glaciers. So three times more ice and the conditions to produce an ice age worldwide flood. After a worldwide flood, you're going to have a lot of warm water, but a lot of aerosols in the atmosphere. The Bible says the fountains of the great deep burst forth. That could be underwater volcanoes. We think, like all the volcanoes on Earth, or most of them were going off. And that puts aerosols in the atmosphere, which blocks a little bit of sunlight, and that causes the land to cool. But water has high, what's called specific heat. It maintains its temperature. And so warm ocean water that evaporates goes over the land. Land's cold. What do you get? You get snowfall. And those are the ideal conditions for producing an ice age. And there is biblical evidence that the climate was different a few hundred years after the flood. For example, remember that Lot and Abraham, when they split ways, Lot pitched his tent towards Sodom because the land there was green. It was like the garden of God. Today, it's a desert. That tells us the climate has changed since that time. And that's what we'd expect scientifically as well. So this is another example of science confirming what the Bible teaches.

[Todd Friel]

But, okay, so we recognize that there's just been some periods which we'll discuss where we've actually witnessed. We'll use the term climate change. But for us to get into the tizzy that we're in that the climate is actually changing, wouldn't it have to be like millions of years we're able to track this as opposed to, say, even a century? Wouldn't more time be required to establish some sort of constant change in the atmosphere?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Well, in the secular view, they do believe that the climate's changed over millions and millions of years. I deny the idea of millions of years. I deny its existence. But nonetheless, we have seen fluctuations over a period of centuries. I would say that's sufficient to call it climate change. We had a period of time between about 1000 and 1200 AD where the temperature was warm, much warmer than it is today, as far as we can tell over the Earth. It's called the Medieval Warming Period and actually resulted in a lot of increased crops. I mean, it's a very. It's a very good thing. Warmer temperatures are actually good because they. You have increased plant growth and so on. And so I'm, I'm, you know, when people say, what about global warming? I'm like, bring it on. You know, when is that going to kick? Especially now that I live in Colorado,

[Todd Friel]

I was going to say, bring it on. The Midwest or Canada, Please bring it on. Global warming.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Yeah, but it would result in increased plant growth. And then there have been periods of cooling. There was the, what's the so called Little Ice age during the 1600s where at least Europe experienced cooler temperatures than normal and that resulted in less plant growth. And so periods of cooling are not quite as helpful as periods of warming.

[Todd Friel]

All right, so your contention is we see the climate change for a century, two or three, but then it changes again?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Yes.

[Todd Friel]

All right, I do. However, and you can correct me in this, the ability for us to know the temperature on September 10, 1642, how accurate are we at knowing the past weather patterns?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Well, we can't know exact temperatures and things like that, but we do know the temperature is warmer for one reason. People were able to grow vineyards at higher latitudes than would be possible today, because today the temperature there is too cold. So that's how we're able to track that is by looking at past vineyards and things like that.

[Todd Friel]

But the secular effort to persuade us that there's climate change, as far as like tracking actual temperatures, you know, they make it sound like, look, we know what the temperature was 4 million years ago. Did they know what the temperature was even 400 years? I mean, they can't plot. We can in general say we think that because we could grow vines at a higher altitude than. But really it's not all that scientific, is it?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

It's not as precise, it's not as exact as people would like it to be. We can infer general trends. We can say, yes, there's good evidence the temperature was higher between 1000 and 1200. You can look at tree rings too. That gives you some indication. But yeah, it's not like we had accurate thermometers at that time.

[Todd Friel]

Well, and even accurate thermometers today is a little bit challenging because if it's at the airport versus in the city versus out on somebody's farm, you're going to get variances in temperature. So their rather confident speech about we know that temperatures maybe is more bravado than reality.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Yeah. And I think especially the place where they really get into trouble is when they try to predict the future. They try to say based on these patterns. Do you think it's going to do this in the future if we don't do something right away? Catastrophic climate change? I'm very much against that idea. I think that's based on more speculation than facts.

[Todd Friel]

Can human beings contribute to climate change?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Perhaps in a very mild way, but I do think it would have to be mild. People talk about Our carbon footprint. Human beings, because of industry, we produce carbon dioxide, which is a greenhouse gas. A greenhouse gas allows sunlight to pass through it. It's transparent. But then when that sunlight is converted to heat and radiates in the infrared, carbon dioxide is opaque in some frequencies of the infrared. And so it blocks that. It blocks that heat, but green. But carbon dioxide is a mild greenhouse gas. It's not the most significant greenhouse gas. The most significant greenhouse gas is water vapor. That's far more effective. And so I've argued that when you boil a pot of water, you're doing

[Todd Friel]

more to damage the universe.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Yeah, the damage. Or to cause global warming. The theory, though, is that water vapor cycles much more quickly. And so carbon dioxide kind of stays there is the argument. But nonetheless, carbon dioxide is responsible for about one fourth of the greenhouse effect on Earth. And that's a good thing, because without the greenhouse effect, the Earth would be much colder than it would be. We want some greenhouse effect. So that's not the issue. The question is, are we putting out too much carbon dioxide? Well, it turns out that even by the most generous estimates, human beings only put out about one third of the carbon dioxide that is in our atmosphere. The other two thirds are due to natural cycles, things like volcano. One volcano put out more carbon dioxide than human beings produce in a year. So the question is, are we contributing to it? And my guess is perhaps by a very small amount. But most of the carbon dioxide is natural, and carbon dioxide is not the main greenhouse gas anyway. And so this idea of trying to spend billions of dollars to reduce our carbon footprint, I think that's something that, is something that needs to be avoided.

[Todd Friel]

All right. But the response to that would be you're an outlier. Okay, fine, you've got a PhD, but it is settled science that we have climate change and humans are contributing to it. Is it settled?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

No. And I think that most climatologists probably would not agree with that assessment that it's settled that human being causing climate change or that it's going to be catastrophic. And that's the other thing. What we've learned is in the past, when temperatures have been warmer, such as during the medieval warming period, the crop yield increased. And there's evidence that that's happening now. It's called carbon fertilization. When there's more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, crops grow better.

[Todd Friel]

Right.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

And so. And we're seeing that now. And so it's like we're going to have more food available. This is not a bad thing. If the temperature Indeed is going up. If there's more carbon dioxide, and then there's a question of how much of the increase in temperature is there. It seems like there's very little, maybe a degree and a half in the last century. It's a very small amount. People don't realize how small this effect of global warming really is. And even that's, I'm being generous to the, to the alarmists, basically, it might not even be that much, but. And then is carbon dioxide causing that or is it the reverse? A lot of people don't realize that the ocean has a lot of carbon dioxide in it. And when the ocean gets warmer, it releases that carbon dioxide. And then when the ocean gets cooler, it absorbs it back in. And so it's actually when the Earth is warmer, you get more carbon dioxide released from the ocean. It's not the carbon dioxide necessarily that's causing the Earth to be warmer. It's the warmer Earth that's causing more carbon dioxide to be in the atmosphere. Isn't that interesting?

[Jimmy Hicks]

All right, much more in this conversation about climate change still to come. This is wretched radio Conflict. That's not an if in your life, that's a when. You will most definitely disagree with your spouse, your kids, your co workers, your in laws, maybe all of them in the same week. The question is whether those disagreements turn your home into a war zone or something you can actually resolve. That's what our resource conflict, conflict is all about. Todd Friel, who admits he's an expert in conflict mostly because he's caused so much of it, and Dr. John street will both challenge you to respond in ways so radically biblical that even the people you've been fighting with will take notice. They'll walk you through biblical reconciliation step by step, so you can actually heal what's been broken. If you're exhausted from the same arguments on repeat, if your home feels more like a battlefield than a refuge, there is a better way. And it's not another self help technique. It is scripture. Conflict is streaming right now on Fortis for free. Just download the app on your smartphone, on your smart TV, or simply go to fortisplus.org thanks for listening to Wretched Radio today. You know what's rare? Finding something that makes you laugh and makes you think at the same time. And that's why we've brought in Gary Varville. Gary's an award winning cartoonist and every week he draws an original creation just for Fortis Institute. They're sharp, they're funny, and they usually make a point that sticks with you a little bit longer than you expected it to. And something else you'll find at Fortis Institute is Fortis News, which is hosted by yours truly. These are up to the minute headlines that matter to Christians and they're told from a biblical worldview. There's no spin, there's no agenda. It's just the news with a Christian perspective. And both of these things part of what we're building in Fortis Institute, and both are made possible by our gospel partners. If you have been helped and you appreciate the content that we're creating at Fortis Institute, would you consider supporting us so that we can reach more people in more places all over the world? It's really simple. We know you have questions, so we have [e-mail] Wretched Amazing Grace Amazing Gospel Should Christians drink? What about tattoos? Is it okay to send your kids to public school? Or does homeschool make you holier? And don't even get started on worship style? Dad's ended more friendships than Monopoly. Here's the thing. Christians love to argue about stuff the Bible doesn't actually command or forbid. And when we do, we fracture over things that shouldn't divide us. That's where Christian Liberty comes in. It's a teaching series with Todd Friel, Phil Johnson, and Ty Blackburn, all walking you through one of the most neglected and most misused doctrines in all of scripture. And when you actually understand Christian liberty, you stop majoring on minors. You learn to disagree without dividing. You grow in wisdom and maturity and have genuine love for other believers who see things a little bit differently than you do. Christian Liberty is streaming right now for free on Fortis. Just download the app where you download apps on your smartphone, your smart TV, or just simply go to fortisplus.org.

[Wretched Radio Announcer]

BOOKS of the Bible. When Habakkuk saw violence and injustice in Judah, he complained to God. God promised to use the Chaldeans to punish Judah, but Habakkuk complained that they were even worse than Judah. God said that he would punish the Chaldeans after using them to purify Judah. God uses all things for his glory and the good of his people, even evil things. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel

[Jimmy Hicks]

and we are back here on Wretched Radio. I'm Jimmy hicks. Todd and Dr. Jason Lyle have been having a conversation. They've talked about aliens, now they're talking about climate change.

[Todd Friel]

I hear people talk like, no, you're just, you're a nutcase because you, you reject science. And I hear that from politicians, that this is just something we've got to get ahold of and we need to spend billions of dollars and we to all kinds of treaties to make sure that we're not driving anything but an electric car. All right, so if we had to encounter somebody like that, who says, look, this climate change, it's settled science. Give me one, maybe two big ideas that I could share with them to say not so fast.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

One would be if hypothetically, we were causing the Earth's temperature to go up, up a bit. That's not a bad thing. What that's going to result in is increased crops, increased food production, less human deaths, far more people die from exposure to cold than exposure to heat. If global warming were true, it would

[Todd Friel]

save lives, wouldn't they say? But okay, so it's only up a degree and a half. That's one century. In 10,000 years, it's going to be up 50 degrees or whatever.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Yeah, but again, it's not a linear effect. And that's another point that I'd like to bring out is that the main bands of carbon dioxide that absorb infrared are, are very near saturation, which means if you put out more carbon dioxide, it will not increase, it will not increase their ability to reflect that temperature back. Now, there are other bands that are less important that are not saturated, but the main bands are saturated or very near that. And so it's not a linear effect. That's, that's, that's my point. Doubling the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere would not double the Earth's temperature. It would, it would go up maybe just a little bit more. So the Earth has feedback mechanisms that would prevent that. Second point, we have a promise from God that that runaway global warming cannot happen. Genesis 8:22. God promises the basic cycles of nature, the day and night cycle and the seasons will continue as long as the Earth remains. And what that means is there's always going to be a summer and a winter. Doesn't mean summer and winter will always be the same temperature as the previous year. We know that fluctuates, but what that does, that we have a promise from God that the Earth's temperature cannot run away to such extent that there will not be harvest, that there will not be winter. Center.

[Todd Friel]

The people who hold on to these claims of global warming or climate change, how good do you think they are at their science?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

I think most climatologists would not agree with the alarmist position that unless we do something,

[Todd Friel]

why is that narrative the loudest voice out there?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Fear is a Powerful motivator. Fear can make people give money to the world.

[Todd Friel]

Oh, wait a second. Hold on. Yeah, I'm hearing the black helicopter. So you're saying that it's used as a mechanism to try to control folks?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

I think it is, yeah.

[Todd Friel]

We should talk about COVID There are other issues that are this. The next one is beginning to simmer in our society. What do we do with artificial intelligence? What do we do with the issue of transhumanism? I think most Christians aren't paying much attention to this subject, and we should, because it has some really serious theological implications. Let's start with what exactly is transhumanism?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

It's the attempt to manipulate either DNA or to combine living organisms, especially human anatomy, with technology.

[Todd Friel]

All right. And your presentation on this subject is this isn't kind of an all or nothing either, or we've got to think this through in biblical categories. So what are the two categories that you consider in determining? Should we be okay? Because, you know, we've seen the video. The fellow who can't move, barely. He can move his eyes, and that's it. All of a sudden can play a video game. And we go, what's wrong with that? How do we think this through? What are the categories that guide us?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Any technology can be used for godly purposes or for wicked purposes. And so my question is, what is the goal? What is the purpose for which we're developing such technology? And I think the technology itself is a good thing. But careful, it can be used for wicked purposes. So what would be the biblical guideline? Are we pushing the human condition to be more like God intended it to be, or are we pushing it away from the way God intended it to be? Now, pushing it toward the way God intended it to be would basically be reducing the effects of the curse. We know this is a good thing because this is what Jesus did in his earthly ministry. Jesus healed the sick. People would come to him blind. He would heal them. He would restore them to the way that they would have been if it hadn't been for the effects of sin and the effects of the curse. That's a good use of technology. A poor use of technology, a wicked use, would be to try and make human beings different from the way that God intended us to be. Now, if you want to be stronger, that's fine. There's a mechanism that God gave you. It's called exercise. And you can become stronger.

[Todd Friel]

That's weird. I thought it was steroids, but. Go, carry on.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

But that's my point. That would be an inappropriate use of technology. God has given us mechanisms where we can change within certain conditions that God has prescribed. And so as much as I enjoy science fiction like the Six Million Dollar man, that actually is not a good use of technology. But. But to restore broken limbs and things like that, to help a person who can't walk, to be able to walk, that's a good use of technology.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, why not? I mean, come on. Didn't the $6 million man, he'd, like, he was like in a rocket ship and he crashed, and they needed to put him back together. Stronger or faster?

[Jimmy Hicks]

Stronger.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Faster. Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

What's wrong with that?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Because it's not the way that God designed us to be. That's the bottom line. It's not the way that God designed us to be.

[Todd Friel]

However. Okay, I'm trying to follow your guidelines here. So this man, because of the fall, had a crash, and let's say he had a limb removed and we could transhuman him by putting a limb on. Are you okay with that?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Yes, yes. Because that's restoring him back to the condition that he was before the episode.

[Todd Friel]

But giving him an arm where he can now curl 800 pounds, you say that's a problem?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

I think that is a problem, because that's. Why wouldn't somebody who has not been injured say, I'd like that arm too. I'd like to be able to do that, too. And then they can replace their arms. They're perfectly good, functioning arms that God gave them with something that's artificial. Now, this is all moot at this point because right now, anything that we produce is inferior to the original body, the human body.

[Todd Friel]

It's true.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Yeah. And that may always be the case. We might find that the design of the body is pretty. Pretty optimal. It would surprise me if it weren't the case. I mean, we can make things that function better than a human body part in some way, but then there's always a drawback in another way. We can make cameras that are more sensitive to light than the human eye, but they're bigger than the human eye and they require maintenance, and then they can't adapt to bright light and so on. The eye is superior to any camera that you need to.

[Todd Friel]

And you need a battery for those.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

And you need a battery. Right. Whereas ours powered by internal chemistry, which is amazing.

[Todd Friel]

Amazing, right? It is amazing. And I think behind that is God himself sustaining all life, by the way. I do have to let you know, though, I do believe my arm can curl £800. I think it so Therefore, that's actually trans ableism. Are you familiar with transablism? Transabilism is the supposed DSM malady that says, I don't think that I should have this limb, therefore, doc, I want it cut off.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Wow. Bad idea. It's just a bad idea.

[Todd Friel]

Well, if we're going to be consistent, you'd have to say, well, if that's what you think, then that becomes reality, where our feelings suddenly become science.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Right.

[Todd Friel]

Which is shocking. All right, so the principle for transhumanism, different than trans ableism is if it's restoring, if it's correcting.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Yes.

[Todd Friel]

Something that's an effect of the fall. Thumbs up.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Yes.

[Todd Friel]

If it's making us superhuman, that's the problem. Because that's simply not the way that God made us.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Exactly, exactly.

[Todd Friel]

Is there anything a little Tower of Babbily about some of this?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

I think so. Yeah. Of course. The Tower of Babel. They were trying to build a tower, not to reach heaven, but whose top was dedicated to the worship of the heavenly. And that is something that God forbids. We are to worship God alone, not his creation, and we are to function in the parameters that God has specified. We're going to be the creatures that God made us do.

[Todd Friel]

I recall reading from your material that this can be similar to the original sin, that we get to be like God.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Yes, exactly. I mean, that was the way that Satan tempted Eve, was, you can be better than the condition that God made you. And her response should have been, no, I'm going to be exactly the way

[Todd Friel]

God made me, because that's exactly the way that he wants it and he knows best.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Exactly.

[Todd Friel]

What do you think about DNA manipulation, for instance? Curing cancer? Do you have a problem with that?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

It's exactly the same principle. So curing cancer, part of the curse, part of its disease. It'd be great if we could somehow eliminate cancer through genetic manipulation by. By restoring the DNA back to the way it was originally intended to be by God. That's fantastic.

[Todd Friel]

Have you been following some of the advancements that they're making in that field?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Some, but not all.

[Todd Friel]

It's really encouraging where people that should be dead because of their type of cancer are alive and well and thousands of them, and it's the human body healing the human body.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Yes.

[Todd Friel]

All right, so that field, you would say you go, let's. Let's just maybe add a caveat. As long as it doesn't involve fetal stem cells.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Right. We can't kill a life to save a life, obviously.

[Todd Friel]

Right. That would be the pragmatism that the Bible says is fairboating. All right. Animal testing for the advancement of human flourishing. You okay with that?

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

I'm okay with it. God gave us dominion over the animals. Now, that means that we have to be ethical in the way we treat animals, but not voucher like and not fouchillike. Oh, my. But we need to be, you know, we can't just torture an animal for the sake of torture. Obviously. But if you need to kill an animal to save a human life, the Bible says that's appropriate. That's perfectly appropriate.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah, well, and we even see that in the sacrificial system.

[Dr. Jason Lyle]

Yes.

[Todd Friel]

All right. So do it ethically. You don't want to torture animals for no reason.

[Jimmy Hicks]

What a day. Here on Richard Radio. Great conversation with Todd and Dr. Jason Lyle today. From Aliens to Climate Change. Really interesting and great conversation. And you can HEAR More from Dr. Jason Lyle at fortisplus.org because he's one of our Fortis Institute fellows. He has an entire Fortis Institute forum right now for you to view for free at fortisplus.org, go check it out right now. And until tomorrow, go serve your king.