Why So Many Christian Men Never Grow Up | Todd Interviews John Crotts

Summary

Podcast Summary

Episode Overview

Title: Why So Many Christian Men Never Grow Up | Todd Interviews John Crotts
Date: July 6, 2026
Host: Todd Friel
Guest: Dr. John Crotts (Pastor and Author)
Main Theme:
This episode of Wretched Radio delves into the reasons many Christian men struggle with maturing in faith and responsibility. Todd Friel engages author and pastor Dr. John Crotts in a candid discussion about biblical masculinity, spiritual growth, the role of wisdom, the importance of church involvement, and fostering hope in a fallen world.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Does It Mean to Be a "Mighty Man" According to Scripture?

• Defining Biblical Manhood

  • Dr. Crotts emphasizes that a mighty man is one who seeks to be godly and takes responsibility for his life, wife, and children (if he has them) ([01:50]):

    "A man that's seeking to be a godly man and taking responsibility for his life and the life of his wife and his kids if the Lord has given them to him."
    — Dr. John Crotts [01:50]

  • Todd notes that this sounds simple, but is actually a lifelong commitment to spiritual growth.

• Discipline and Spiritual Leadership

  • Before leading others, a man must lead himself. This includes active, disciplined engagement in spiritual growth—being a man of the Bible, prayer, and the church ([02:31]):

    "I think that God wants us to be active, to discipline ourselves for the purpose of godliness…"
    — Dr. John Crotts [02:31]

2. The World’s Allure vs. Biblical Manhood

• Cultural Challenges

  • Todd observes that modern culture invites men to pursue pleasure and avoid "grown-up" responsibilities:

    "The world is pulling them to play. Have fun, stay young. Don't let the cares of the world drag you down."
    — Todd Friel [03:12]

• A Call to Eternal Perspective

  • Dr. Crotts encourages young men to focus on eternal significance, contrasting video game achievements with spiritual impact ([06:10]):

    "Add 10,000 years, how is your video game score going to matter?... but if you had a spiritual impact...that has a rippling effect."
    — Dr. John Crotts [06:10]

  • Quoting Jonathan Edwards:

    "We needed to stamp eternity on our eyeballs to look at life through the lens of eternity."
    — Dr. John Crotts [06:10]

3. Wisdom in the Bible: “Craftsmanship” in Living

• Hebrew Understanding of Wisdom

  • Wisdom (Hebrew: "hakam") is described as skill in living—like a craftsman creating something enduring ([09:19]):

    "A wise man is one who has skill in living. And we live to the glory of God."
    — Dr. John Crotts [09:19]

  • Not esoteric or mystical—wisdom is practical, about living life well for God's glory.

• Application in Family Life

  • The foundation is a man’s personal walk with God—without this, spiritual leadership is shallow ([11:02]):

    "You can't just skip that part and start doing step 1, 2, 3, 4, and be a godly spiritual leader. It’s got to come from your heart."
    — Dr. John Crotts [11:02]

4. Godly Leadership & the Home: Navigating “Patriarchy”

• Redefining Patriarchy

  • Todd and Dr. Crotts distinguish biblical leadership in the home from cultural stereotypes of "toxic masculinity" ([17:35]):

    "Are we going to be a family that walks with God? ...Spiritual leadership doesn’t have to be that complicated or complex."
    — Dr. John Crotts [18:16]

  • Leadership is exemplified through personal godliness, setting a spiritual tone, and taking initiative (e.g., family worship, serving others).

• Practical Involvement in Church

  • Active involvement—not just attendance—is crucial:

    "Church is not a show that we attend and then we leave. Church is a body. Church is a team."
    — Dr. John Crotts [21:21]

  • The health of the man's spiritual walk influences his ability to lead his family well ([21:21–23:20]).

5. The Importance of Receiving Correction

• Learning from Proverbs
  • One hallmark of wisdom is the humble acceptance of correction. Dr. Crotts unpacks this as a critical trait of maturity, rooted in the book of Proverbs ([24:21]):

    "Humbly receiving reproof and correction...If you’re wise, you receive it."
    — Dr. John Crotts [24:21]

  • Highlights the need for younger men to seek out older, wiser mentors ([25:33]):

    "Find older men and let them download wisdom. It'll expedite the godly man process."
    — Todd Friel [25:33]

6. Biblical Hope: More Than “Wishful Thinking”

• The Leaking Cup Analogy
  • Dr. Crotts notes that in a fallen world, hope often “leaks out” and must be replenished ([30:01]):

    "It's almost like we're cups with holes in them. Our hope just always is leaking out because of our remaining sin..."
    — Dr. John Crotts [30:01]

• Biblical vs. Cultural Hope
  • Biblical hope is certainty grounded in God’s promises—not mere optimism ([34:44]):

    "Biblical hope is a certainty of the future. We haven't seen it yet, but it is as good as done because it's based on the promises of God."
    — Dr. John Crotts [34:44]

7. Grace, Sin, and Assurance

• Struggling with Besetting Sin

  • Assurance for those battling repeated sin: God’s grace covers even habitual failures, and a sensitive conscience is a positive sign ([44:53–45:34]):

    "If you care about forgiveness from the Lord...I want to come back and say, what do you want to do? Do you want to keep on sinning? ... usually we know best, we know that the right answer is not to keep on sinning like that."
    — Dr. John Crotts [45:45]

• Balancing Grace & Holiness

  • True Christian obedience flows from grace—not an effort to earn God’s favor ([46:59]):

    "We don't obey to earn God's favor. We obey because we have God's favor. It's a tender balance."
    — Dr. John Crotts [46:59]

8. Engaging the “Whole Man”: Mind, Heart, and Will

• Holistic Spirituality
  • Christianity involves intellect, emotion, and will:

    "Your mind, which is comprised of your whole heart, which does include the intellect, but it also includes will, affection, emotion, reasoning, and affections."
    — Todd Friel [52:24]

• Meditation as the Key
  • Biblical meditation is not emptying the mind, but filling it with God’s truths, praying Scripture, and seeking personal application ([53:25]):

    "A Buddhist wants you to empty your mind. I actually want you to fill your mind with God's truth."
    — Dr. John Crotts [53:32]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Leadership:

  "We're not just here being passive, waiting for life to happen to us...We're seeking to honor God. Taking responsibility."
  — Dr. John Crotts [16:50]

• On Legacy:

  "Your legacy is a feather pillow that's been opened up and all the feathers are going into the wind..."
  — Dr. John Crotts [08:40]

• On Church Involvement:

  "We're not spectators in the crowd watching the show, watching the team on the field. We're actually on the field building up the body of Christ."
  — Dr. John Crotts [21:21]

• On Receiving Correction:

  "As John MacArthur once said, if they knew what was in my heart, there would be a lot more material to work with."
  — Todd Friel [24:36]

• On Hope:

  "God has a wonderful plan. It may be very difficult during this life, but this life is considered to be a vapor next to the line that goes on and on forever and ever with the Lord."
  — Dr. John Crotts [30:42]

• On Biblical Hope:

  "The return of Christ is not the blessed hope. So it's the blessed hope. We absolutely know Jesus is coming back for us. He just hasn't done it yet."
  — Dr. John Crotts [34:44]

• On Affectionate Language About God:

  "If God has revealed himself with that kind of tender language, then that needs to be meaningful to us. He doesn't waste words. He gives it to us because we need it."
  — Dr. John Crotts [39:30]

• On Meditation:

  "If you struggle to feel the information that you’re amassing, meditate in a biblical way."
  — Todd Friel [54:43]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Defining Biblical Manhood: [01:50–02:31]
• Pursuing Godliness Over Childish Pleasure: [03:12–06:43]
• Wisdom as Craftsmanship: [09:19–10:09]
• Practical Home Leadership: [11:02–12:00]
• Active Vision and Responsibility for Young Men: [15:17–17:35]
• Local Church Involvement: [20:26–23:20]
• Receiving Correction and Pursuing Wisdom: [24:21–25:49]
• Recovering & Replenishing Hope: [30:01–34:44]
• Balancing Grace and Holiness: [44:53–47:34]
• Assurance in Spiritual Low Points: [48:32–50:16]
• Holistic Spiritual Life / Meditation: [52:24–54:43]

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Episode Takeaways

• Spiritual maturity for Christian men hinges on personal discipline, a vision for eternity, and practical engagement in their families and church communities.
• True biblical manhood rejects both passive drift and domineering stereotypes—embracing humble, proactive responsibility.
• Wisdom is practical, lived skillfully and faithfully, not just theoretical.
• Receiving correction and seeking mentorship are vital for growth.
• Biblical hope is rooted in certainty, not mere wishful thinking.
• Balance is required in the Christian life: grace motivates obedience, and genuine assurance is found in God's unchanging promises.
• Holistic spiritual health means engaging heart, mind, and will—something cultivated through active, prayerful meditation on Scripture.

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For Further Reflection

Whether you’re a young man seeking direction, a father striving to lead well, or a Christian discouraged in the journey of faith, this episode offers rich, practical theological wisdom. By pursuing Christ wholeheartedly and living purposefully, Christian men can grow into the mighty, wise men God calls them to be.

Transcript

[Todd Friel]

Wretched radio begins in 3, 2, 1.

Every once in a while, we gotta the religious people.

[Fortis Institute Announcer]

There are 720 churches in Charlotte. I'm sure we can find one where

[Todd Friel]

you can stuff your face. Shut up. Quit pointing out the problem. Men will be proud, arrogant, abusive. You watch some of today's rock star pastors and you will see every characteristic Paul listed played out in vivid detail on the church stage.

It's time for Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

Hello and welcome to Wretched. My name is Todd Friel, your host and wretch the song refers to. If you are trying to discover what it looks like to be a biblical man, you have come to the right place. No, silly rabbit, not because I'm here, but Dr. John Kratz is. Dr. John Kratz. Shaftsburg. That's how you say it, right? Shopsburg. Kind of dull. The R in a southern kind of way. Sharpsburg. That's not the way you say it.

[Dr. John Kratz]

It's just south of Atlanta. Yeah, near the airport.

[Todd Friel]

It's near the airport, but people here, near the airport. Sharpsburg isn't like dangerous.

[Dr. John Kratz]

No, no, we're. We're a half hour south.

[Todd Friel]

So you're not that close to the airport. Because, you know, that's the thing about our airport. You got to fill up the gas tank to return a car. But it's like, yikes, it's a little risky. So then you gotta do it further out, but then you're not on full by the time you get there. It's all a conspiracy.

[Dr. John Kratz]

It could be.

[Todd Friel]

I think this has something to do with 9 11. But the point is you've written actually two books on how to be godly men, one of which is your first book ever. Mighty Men. What is the biblical definition of a mighty man?

[Dr. John Kratz]

Well, I think just a man that's seeking to be a godly man and taking responsibility for his life and the life of his wife and his kids if the Lord has given them to him.

[Todd Friel]

That sounded too easy, sounded really simple. Just be a godly. And it almost sounded a little Sunday Schoolish. Okay, all right, well, you know, be a godly man.

[Dr. John Kratz]

Sunday school,

[Todd Friel]

it's like, well, here it is just, you know, try to be a godly man. But that's a big statement. I mean, that's a massive statement. Unpack that a little bit. How does a man go about the process of being a godly man, including to single men who aren't married yet?

[Dr. John Kratz]

Well, I think that before you can lead others, you have to lead yourself in the Sense of taking responsibility. And so there's a lot of guys that are passive. They're just waiting to see what happens in life. But I think that God wants us to be active, to discipline ourselves for the purpose of godliness, which means to take advantage of the opportunities the Lord has given us to grow to become more like Jesus, to be a man of the Bible, a man of prayer, a man of the church, and, you know, using the spiritual disciplines that the Spirit uses to make us more like Jesus.

[Todd Friel]

Here's. I think. I think you can correct me if you think I'm wrong, but I'm not, because I'm a talk show host. That a lot of young men aren't persuaded of what you just said because the world is pulling them to play. Have fun, stay young. Don't let the cares of the world drag you down. You're describing something radically different. Help the young man who is not persuaded that becoming a godly man is the best path he can take.

[Dr. John Kratz]

Well, it is a command in the scripture that we would discipline ourselves for godliness. It is the call of Jesus is not just a call to believe some facts about Jesus and go on playing your video games. The call of Jesus is to deny yourself, take up your cross, and to follow him. And so the more we know about Christ, the more we should be living for him. I remember growing up in church in Virginia, and I knew the Sunday school answers because I've been in Sunday school a long time. And I thought when I became old, I would live for Jesus too, because that was the only people in my church that were really living for Christ. And I remember when I was 16, hearing the gospel in a fresh way, and I thought, wait, I believe this. Jesus really did rise from the dead. I should be living for him now. And I think that's when God saved me, even though I grew up in church with a wonderful Christian family. But that was a great turning point for me. And I think young guys need to catch that same vision. Jesus is alive from the dead. This life is short. Eternity is forever. We should be living for him.

[Todd Friel]

And the things that godliness cultivates are the things the world would rather not talk about, because they're not interested in those things. The world typically loves to lure our flesh to do fun things, whatever those things might elicit or otherwise. But Jesus comes along and says, no, I've got a different offering for you. That you'd become a man who is trustworthy and a man who is reliable, a man who is looked upon, a man who has Gone to a man who's given greater responsibility. Those are profoundly different things than score certain on your video game or taking a trip or only working three days a week, whatever it is. These things are the weighty things, the big things. And I think it's helpful for young men to consider which things ultimately do you want? Do you want to cultivate? Because these things are way more valuable.

[Dr. John Kratz]

Yeah. And I think it was Jonathan Edwards that said we needed to stamp eternity on our eyeballs to look at life through the lens of eternity. And if you just add 10,000 years, how is your video game score going to matter 10,000 years from now? But if you had a spiritual impact in the life of a woman, in the life of children that were raised up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord and then launched out into the world, I mean, that has a rippling effect.

[Todd Friel]

But those are profound things. I think those are loftier things. And I don't think I didn't. I still am a knucklehead, so I shouldn't even talk about it. Past tense. But those things, nobody ever helped me to, like, just stop and think for a moment. What kind of a man do you want to be? Self centered, self absorbed, fun, or doing bigger things that have eternal impact?

[Dr. John Kratz]

Right. Well, when you think of the difference between wisdom and foolishness in Proverbs, that's your next book.

[Todd Friel]

I know, I know. All right. Nabal versus a Ham.

[Dr. John Kratz]

Ah, nice.

[Todd Friel]

Thank you. I read it. Good, good, good.

[Dr. John Kratz]

But one characteristic of the fool is he's living for right now, what feels good, what is good, what you know doesn't have a concern at all for tomorrow or the future.

[Todd Friel]

Right.

[Dr. John Kratz]

The wise man is living in light of God, but living in light of the future.

[Todd Friel]

Right. You know what else might help is spending more time at funerals and at deathbeds.

[Dr. John Kratz]

That's right.

[Todd Friel]

You learn more there than you do in the house of rejoicing.

[Dr. John Kratz]

That's right.

[Todd Friel]

That you start to perhaps realize, okay, wait, there are deeper things that I'm intended to experience.

[Dr. John Kratz]

That's right. Some people say that you should think about your funeral. Think about what you would want said about you at your funeral. John scored this on the game, you

[Todd Friel]

know, went to the Caribbean six times.

[Dr. John Kratz]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

You know, and it's like, okay, not necessarily bad stuff, except for the video game stuff, but not necessarily bad stuff. But they're not big things, they're trite.

[Dr. John Kratz]

It doesn't count.

[Todd Friel]

It doesn't count.

[Dr. John Kratz]

Your legacy is a feather pillow that's been opened up and all the feathers are going into the wind instead of.

[Todd Friel]

I think you're confusing your illustration. That's when you gossip and you do the feather pillow.

[Dr. John Kratz]

That's true.

[Todd Friel]

Which word sounds better to you? Nabal or hakam? Probably neither. But there is one of those words that is indeed worthy of your pursuit. If you are a Christian man. What is the biblical definition of wisdom? Because I think most people are gonna be a little bit surprised.

[Dr. John Kratz]

Well, really, the idea is craftsmanship. And so when you. When you think of the craftsman, the skilled woodworker or things like that, you think of somebody who has incredible skill in the details of woodwork, perhaps. And so a wise man is one who has skill in living. And we live to the glory of God.

[Todd Friel]

The Hebrew word for wisdom. Two examples that you give in your book would be the skilled craftsmen of the temple. And those who were tailors made clothing and the priest's garment. They had skills in making something that is enduring. That's what it means to be wise, right?

[Dr. John Kratz]

In contrast to that thought that we need to climb the hill and talk to the guru who speaks and riddles or something like that. No, it's about real life.

[Todd Friel]

It's real life that's, I think, really liberating. Because, look, some of us, we can't sit and quote fortune cookies. But it's about doing life, having a life that's orderly, put together. It's not chaotic, as much as can be avoided considering sin, but it's just doing life well, including family. So I wanna jump back with that thought to this book about being a mighty man in the home. Now, this is for a married man. How does a young married man become wise? What are the things that he needs to do to be exhibiting wisdom with his family?

[Dr. John Kratz]

Well, the very first thing is his own walk with God. It sounds basic, but it really is vital. You can't just skip that part and start doing step 1, 2, 3, 4, and be a godly spiritual leader. It's got to come from your heart, which means your own walk with God,

[Todd Friel]

striving to be a godly man. How to do that and not be a Nabal. Next, unretched.

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[Todd Friel]

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to Wretched Radio today. You know, there's no shortage of voices telling women how to handle anxiety, how to navigate relationships, how to find their identity. Honestly, most of it sounds pretty good until you realize it's just self help slapped with Bible verses. That's not the same thing as biblical wisdom. And that's why we at Fortis Institute present to you the Better Way with Libby Glossin. Libby is an ACBC Certified Biblical Counselor, and she's not just interested in giving you coping strategies. Libby's desire is to take you to Scripture and show you what God actually says about the things you're actually walking through. And this is the kind of content our gospel partners are making possible. If the content we're producing at Fortis Institute has been meaningful to you, I want to ask you to prayerfully consider becoming an ongoing monthly gospel partner. Just go to fortisinstitute.org right now and find out what it would look like for you to be a part of getting content like the Better Way into the hands of women who need it. Wretched Amazing Grace Amazing Gospel.

[Todd Friel]

Important Dates In Christian History 1678 John Bunyan's the Pilgrim's Progress is published. Written while Bunyan was imprisoned for preaching the gospel, this allegorical tale of the Christian life becomes second in international circulation, exceeded only by The Bible. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

Welcome back to Wretched. Can you be a mighty man without being patriarchal? Dr. Jon Kratz, author of two helpful books for not just young men, all men, really. Mighty men and craftsmen.

[Dr. John Kratz]

I think taking initiative to lead your family, really leadership in the home is taking responsibility. So I think I've got three daughters, and when I think about the guys that would marry, my two oldest ones are married already. The things I was looking for in this guy was a sense of responsibility. Are you walking with God and a man on a mission? And are you able to care for this precious woman and have her help you to fulfill the mission God has put before you?

[Todd Friel]

Spend a moment there because some people would bristle perhaps at, like a dad assessing the potential husband. That's not the bristling part I'm talking about, although that makes some people bristle. But it's a young man you said has kind of a mission and a vision. It's a young man who's like, I'm, like, doing things. I'm grabbing things. I'm going to get there so that I can do these things for you. Why should we not overlook that component in a young man?

[Dr. John Kratz]

Well, I think it's just the active, the initiative. That's what's important. I mean, different guys are going to have different missions, if you will. It's not.

[Todd Friel]

And different earning abilities, all of that. That's not what we're talking about here.

[Dr. John Kratz]

No. But that sense that we're here to live for God and to advance the kingdom, if you will. We're not just here being passive, waiting for life to happen to us, waiting for another handout, you know, waiting for mom to bring more food down to the basement while we play the next video game. We're seeking to honor God. Taking responsibility. Part of taking responsibility is going to be supporting a wife. So when I'm looking for a guy for my daughter, I'm wanting to see, all right, I've got a plan to support her physically and to care for her and kids if they come.

[Todd Friel]

John, there's a lot of talk these days about patriarchy. Can we even rightly define that word these days?

[Dr. John Kratz]

Well, I think it's important to define it because I think depending on how you define it is going to depend on whether or not it's a good thing.

[Todd Friel]

Exactly. So what's the patriarchy? That's toxic masculinity. That's being an obnoxious bore. Your wife is at home pregnant in the kitchen barefoot. Okay. That's how some people understand patriarchy. Okay, we wouldn't affirm that, no. Okay, so then what is the way that a man should biblically lead his house? Doesn't want to be this, doesn't want to be the passive wimp.

[Dr. John Kratz]

Right. Well, I think you're gonna, you wanna set the tone out of your own life, your own walk with God, to where? I mean, really a big part of spiritual leadership is setting the example. You even see the elder called to be a godly example to the flock. Not top down, heavy handed leadership in the church, but being a godly example, having godly character. So that's why spiritual leadership starts with your own walk with God. Then you want to take initiative to set the tone for your family. Are we going to be a family that walks with God? You know, to teach your family the scriptures? I think a simple family worship is a great way to do that. Just kind of setting the tone in your family and then taking your family to be a vital part of a healthy church. Not just showing up, but being involved and really in all elements of the church family. I really think that spiritual leadership doesn't have to be that complicated or complex. It's basically, I'm walking with God, I'm setting the tone, I'm initiating. Hey, let's pray together, let's go serve this, this widow in our church that has a need. Don't always be listening for your wife to say let's do this or that. You be the one to say let's do this. And then when it comes time for difficult decisions in your family, take responsibility to make the decision. Yes, you're getting input of course from your wife. God created your wife to be your helper. That means you need help. That doesn't mean you've got somebody to boss around. That means that she is given to you by, to help you on your mission, to do what God has for you to do, to live for his glory, to support your family, to be a vital part of the church, to see the Lord's work advance in your generation.

[Todd Friel]

So many of those are important components. But the one that I keep thinking about is the involvement in the local church, how crucial that is for the health of your kids. Because from experience, when the kids were young, we were going through that phase of just trying to find a good church.

[Dr. John Kratz]

Yes.

[Todd Friel]

And we didn't have the Internet at the time to expedite the process. It was Sunday after Sunday. Another stinker. Aye, aye, aye. This is going on in this. And we got critical about the Church. And I think that got into our kids, and you don't want that. You want kids to love the church, be involved in the church. Not judgmental of the church, but actually serve the church. And a lot of guys, myself included, think, we went on Sunday, we're doing church. There's more to do in church with your family than going on Sunday.

[Dr. John Kratz]

Absolutely. Church is not a show that we attend and then we leave. Church is a body. Church is a team, if you will. And we're part of the team. We're not spectators in the crowd watching the show, watching the team on the field. We're actually on the field building up the body of Christ. We ought to be being equipped to do the work of ministry, speaking God's word to one another in love, meeting needs, assisting and encouraging, holding accountable all the different things that the Bible commands us to do in our church context. One thing about spiritual leadership in the family. If I'm right that spiritual leadership starts with the heart of a man who is walking with God, then one of the most important elements of your church is that you are being fed. Some people think, well, I'm being a leader by accommodating the church my kids want to go to because they've got the best programs. Well, if you're not being fed, then you're not being built up to be the leader.

[Todd Friel]

And it's a really good point. Was just in a coffee shop, and I was, okay, I was eavesdropping. Let's call it what it is. But I could hear these women talking, and they were asking, where are you going to church? Well, we tried out this local Baptist church. My husband didn't like it because it's kind of a rock show. But the kids really love the music and love the program. So that's where we're going. And it's like, that's what you're talking. The kids shouldn't be making the decision because, if you will, the parents have to put the spiritual oxygen mask on themselves first.

[Dr. John Kratz]

That's right.

[Todd Friel]

Because then they feed the kids, then they lead the kids. They're the ones being responsible for the kids. But that's a huge trend these days, that the kids make the decisions about where to go to church.

[Dr. John Kratz]

Absolutely, yes.

[Todd Friel]

And it's bad.

[Dr. John Kratz]

Yeah. It has terrible effects because not only are you not being fed, you're surrounded by people not being fed.

[Todd Friel]

Right.

[Dr. John Kratz]

You're surrounded by people who are following the lead of their kids.

[Todd Friel]

Right.

[Dr. John Kratz]

I'm speaking very generally, but

[Todd Friel]

that is. Question, younger man, how do you receive Correction. I ask because that is a sign of a man who is either a Nabal or Ham. Dr. Kratz, your two books, very helpful. Mighty men, craftsmen. In this book, wisdom being defined as doing life well. To have hakam, you kind of just. And one of the components of being a wise man is receiving correction. Why did that make one of the chapters as opposed to about 50 other things?

[Dr. John Kratz]

Well, I went through the proverbs and I really made comparisons between what does the wise life look like and what does the foolish life look like. That made the cut because there's so much in proverbs about humbly receiving reproof and correction.

[Todd Friel]

Right.

[Dr. John Kratz]

If I was going to summarize and completely put it in my own words, if you're a fool and you're all about how it feels, I don't want anything to do with it. In fact, I'm going to strike back. I don't even like the way you corrected me. If you're wise, you receive it. As John MacArthur once said, if they knew what was in my heart, there would be a lot more material to work with.

[Todd Friel]

Right. But that's a hard thing, and I would say maybe even more so for a younger generation who are told to jettison the wisdom of the wise because they're not wise. They're the fools. They're not smart. Don't listen to them. Go get advice from your friends. Solomon's, I think. Yeah. Went through that and we saw the results of that. So for a young man, one of the best things he can do, find older men and let them download wisdom.

[Dr. John Kratz]

Right.

[Todd Friel]

It'll expedite the godly man process.

[Dr. John Kratz]

Absolutely. And you're not going to like it sometimes, but the Bible says if you're wise, you receive it. If you're a fool, you don't.

[Todd Friel]

And we've got to be biblical men. How you find that balance next on Wretched.

[Fortis Institute Announcer]

And it's now time for your daily Fortis newsbreak, a production of Fortis Institute. Well, the Supreme Court handed America two big headlines this week, and the first is a win for common sense and a ruling written by Justice Brett Kavanaugh. The court upheld laws in West Virginia and Idaho that keeps boys out of girls sports. The majority said what most of us learned in kindergarten, that boys and girls are physically different. And letting biological males compete against girls isn't just unfair, it's dangerous, especially in contact sports. Kavanaugh noted that 27 states, the NCAA and the Olympic committee all draw the same line. So the highest court in the land now officially knows what a wonderful and the court's second move was to take up a case that could finally settle a decade old fight over the AR15. The justices agreed to hear challenges to bans in Illinois and Connecticut. And Justice Clarence Thomas was pretty blunt saying that the AR15 is plainly protected by the Second Amendment and that the court has dodged the question for over a decade now it seems they're going to stop dodging. And while the courts were defending the country, a federal jury was punishing an attack on it. Seven more members of an antifa cell were sentenced this week for an ambush on an immigration detention center in North Texas that happened on the 4th of July last year, where the group set off fireworks to lure ICE officers outside and then opened fire, wounding a police lieutenant in the neck. One woman got 50 years and the ringleader, a former Marine reservist who fired on officers and then ran from police for 11 days, got the max in the 100 years. The defense, insistent that it was all meant to be a peaceful protest, 30 rounds fired at law enforcement is a strange kind of peaceful if you ask me. Speaking of the Fourth of July, the city of Columbus, Ohio marked America's birthday this week by raising the flag of Somalia over city hall. That's not a misspeak. In the week the nation turns 250 years old, the capital of Ohio flew a foreign flag for Somalia Independence Day and then quietly deleted all of the Facebook posts and announcements about it. Now, scripture tells us to love our neighbors from every nation, and we should, most definitely. And you can do that while still asking a simple question. Whose birthday are we celebrating this month? Out in California, Governor Gavin Newsom has a plan for your money, or rather other people's money. Newsom is calling for a national billionaire tax plus a fund where the government takes a big step stake in the economy and hands every American a slice. He says trickle down economics failed and it's now time for Washington to fund universal child care, free college and health care. A bold vision arriving just as Newsom is expected to run for president in 2028. It's funny how that works, isn't it? And that wraps up today's Fortis News Break. I'm Jimmy Hicks. If you want more, you can download for US plus or sign up to become a Fortis Insider for exclusive daily content. Both of those those things can be [e-mail] and don't forget, you can subscribe to Fortis News on your favorite podcast app in order to get these updates daily and until tomorrow. Go serve your king.

[Todd Friel]

Know your church fathers. Irenaeus was an apologist and disciple of Polycarp who was a disciple of the Apostle John. He served as the Bishop of Lyon and wrote against Harris' A Refutation of Gnosticism and Docetism, in which he demonstrated the coherence and necessity of the Incarnation. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

Hello and welcome to Wretched. My name is Todd Friel, your host and wretch the song refers to. Got hope? Then you've come to the right place. Dr. Jon Kratz. This book, it's actually a part of a series of booklets helping people with particular biblical counseling issues. You chose kind of the Granddaddy Hope because it applies to all of us. On your experience as a pastor, do most Christians have a lot of hope?

[Dr. John Kratz]

Well, because we live in a fallen world. It's almost like we're cups with holes in them. Our hope just always is leaking out because of our remaining sin, because of the devil, because of the temptations around us. To encourage someone to put their trust in God, to think that God has a great future plan for you, that God understands what's going on. That is something everybody can use.

[Todd Friel]

Here's something that I never thought I'd hear a Master SEM graduate say, which is what you just uttered. God has a wonderful plan for your life. Is that what you were saying?

[Dr. John Kratz]

Well, especially if we can take the plan beyond the grave to eternity. Eternity, absolutely. God has a wonderful plan. It may be very difficult during this life, but this life is considered to be a vapor next to the line that goes on and on forever and ever with the Lord.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah. There's a fine line in even saying, though, that even the trials that we go through, that those actually, they're painful, they're hard, but there is a component of good in them because of what they produce in us, what they do for us, how they prepare us, how our response to it might be evangelistic for the people who are watching us. So you hate to say, hey, that car accident, that's good for you? Cause that seems to be really insensitive. But nevertheless, God doesn't. I like to say God doesn't do things to his children. He does things for his children, even when they're hard. All right, so if somebody is lacking

[Dr. John Kratz]

hope,

[Todd Friel]

what's the best way to get hope?

[Dr. John Kratz]

Well, the word of God is where God reveals himself. His character, his ways, his promises. God can't lie. The Bible says so. God. So every promise God has given will come to pass the promise of God's presence. I will be with you. I will never leave you, nor forsake you, casting all your cares upon him because he cares for you. These are words we can just cling to. And so the short answer is going to be the word of God. So this book specifically is 31 days, where you get. You have a scripture and then you have kind of an application of that scripture, and then something to think about and some key questions, something to do based on that.

[Todd Friel]

Is this. I've been reading your book, so I get confused. Is this the book?

[Dr. John Kratz]

At least mine are short.

[Todd Friel]

I'm not going to. Oftentimes when somebody's interviewing somebody about a book, you know what they do? They just read the table of contents and you can tell that's all they've read, was the table of contents. So I'm not gonna apologize for getting which book I actually read it in John, but didn't you? It's like this one chapter isn't gonna fix whatever's ailing you. It's the accumulation of. Was this.

[Dr. John Kratz]

Yeah, it's like almost like a slow drip of medicine. It's not gonna be all at once. Used to be. I know the technology's changed, but it used to be cell phone batteries required a trickle charge, a long, all night, you know, on the plug before your battery is recharged. Now they can zip them back up, you know, quicker. Well, I think a lot of times we need that trickle charge of hope, you know, someone who is really in despair. They can't handle much. They're not going to read a big book you can handle. Here's a nice Puritan for you. Read this would help. But they don't. Their soul is so grieved. But they can handle a verse. They can handle some words to give them, and they can come back tomorrow.

[Todd Friel]

And the cumulative effect, that's the goal of this series.

[Dr. John Kratz]

Each of the books, I think they're so great for the different issues they address. And of course, mine is a little more all purpose.

[Todd Friel]

Like you say hope, which, by the way, some people have a tendency to actually confuse the definition, like hope. I hope that my spouse is on time. I hope she picked up the. I hope he cut the grass. Like, cross your fingers.

[Dr. John Kratz]

That's right.

[Todd Friel]

How does that contrast with biblical hope?

[Dr. John Kratz]

Biblical hope is a certainty of the future. We haven't seen it yet, but it is as good as done because it's based on the promises of God, the character of God. And so you're right. And the Bible Even says that once in a while. Paul says, I hope to come to you if this. So he's even using that word, wishing things would go well. But when the Bible uses the word hope in the way we're talking about it is a certainty. Someone said that the return of Christ is not the blessed hope. So it's the blessed hope. We absolutely know Jesus is coming back for us. He just hasn't done it yet. But we're as confident as we are sitting here that one day he will come.

[Todd Friel]

That actually is profoundly helpful for people who are lacking hope because we can so easily think, well, I hope that things are going to get better. Your hope. It would almost be better to say your certainty is. Your assurance is. Because that's really the biblical definition of hope.

[Dr. John Kratz]

Right?

[Todd Friel]

These things are, yes and amen. They're going to. It's not like, oh, I hope that Jesus makes good on his promises. I hope I get to go to heaven.

[Dr. John Kratz]

Right. In fact, the subtitle right. Living confidently in God. We can be confident of future good because of God, not because we're gonna work harder, not because we're gonna turn over a new leaf.

[Todd Friel]

We sometimes mischaracterize the Puritans in just thinking that repent. They're in their robe, black robe, they're very dour, and they're screaming, repent. But there was another side to the Puritans, wasn't there?

[Dr. John Kratz]

Oh, absolutely.

[Todd Friel]

What was that side?

[Dr. John Kratz]

Oh, they were wonderful biblical Christians just trying to work out the Scriptures in their generation. And so there's wonderful stories of them wearing bright colors and playing games and having lots of joy.

[Todd Friel]

And not only that, but sometimes when they speak about Jesus, it's almost like Count von Zinzendorf. It's like a little too romantic. It's a little too Song of Solomon. They're just downright affectionate. His heart beats with our hearts. And as I'm looking through your book, you've got some of that in here that some people might kind of, if they're conservative, might blanch at a little bit. God's love for you, God's care for you, God's desires for you. How would you help somebody who maybe is squeamish about affectionate language about God?

[Dr. John Kratz]

Well, hopefully the language that I use comes right from the Scriptures. If the Bible uses it, I'm good to use it. I certainly agree there can be a problem when we go too far and go beyond Scripture and get all sentimental, sloppy about it. But using biblical language, biblically, the way the Bible does It is a great thing. In fact, it's God's way of helping people to grow.

[Todd Friel]

Right.

[Dr. John Kratz]

Speaking the truth in love is God's means of ministry. And so in this book, yeah, if we want to talk a little bit about how God loves us in our deepest, darkest times and our times of crisis, well, if we're coming from Scripture, there's no problem.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah, there's some biblical language because we've seen so much of the romanticized portraits of Jesus where, you know, we've heard the worship songs make Jesus sound like your girlfriend. So we can have a tendency to maybe even want to overcorrect that. But here's the reality. There's some language in the Bible that God uses to describe how he. I'll use the word feels about us. Well, get used to it. Because if that's what it says that God feels, then you should probably learn how to live with it as opposed to rejected and resisted. That his chosen people are the apple of his eye, that we're his treasure, that we're precious to God, that he keeps all of our tears in a bottle. It's like some of us might be like, whoa, come on with the ooey gooey God. I think that's because we've overcorrected too far.

[Dr. John Kratz]

I agree.

[Todd Friel]

And we should allow ourselves to love those promises.

[Dr. John Kratz]

That's right. I mean, the Bible is God's revelation of himself. We can't make up. I mean, people do it all the time. We ought not to ever try to make up things about God. We learn about God from the Scripture. And if God has revealed himself with that kind of tender language, then that needs to be meaningful to us. He doesn't waste words. He gives it to us because we need it.

[Todd Friel]

But I've heard this. Hold on. The angels didn't say tender, tender, tender. They said holy, holy, holy. And that's right.

[Dr. John Kratz]

That's right.

[Todd Friel]

But it also does say that he has tender affection in his children. What about committing that sin and then committing that sin and committing that sin and committing that sin? And perhaps you've come to the conclusion, I can't talk to anyone, God. I can't approach that throne. I've sinned too much. Next on Wretched.

[Fortis Institute Announcer]

A lot of us got handed a choice. We never agreed to faith on one side, reason on the other. So when talk turns to fossils or the age of the universe, you kind of feel that knot. You know, you believe God's word. You just can't explain why.

[Todd Friel]

Why?

[Fortis Institute Announcer]

But that choice was a setup. The same God who gave us the Bible, gave us the universe to study, and truth doesn't argue with itself. The trouble was the assumptions, the one smuggled in next to the evidence and taught as fact. It's why two people can look at the same fossil and walk away telling two different stories. But you sort the assumptions out and the science sits comfortably beside Scripture. That's exactly what in the beginning with Dr. Jason Jason Lyle is four. He's a PhD astrophysicist who takes the hardest questions in science and makes them clear and biblical New episodes of in the Beginning Heard every Wednesday on every single podcast platform in existence or on the Fortis [e-mail] Should Christians drink? What about tattoos? Is it okay to send your kids to public school? Or does homeschool make you holier and don't even get started on worship styles? That's ended more friendships than Monopoly. Here's the thing. Christians love to argue about stuff the Bible doesn't actually command or forbid. And when we do, we fracture over things that shouldn't divide us. That's where Christian Liberty comes in. It's a teaching series with Todd Friel, Phil Johnson, and Ty Blackburn, all walking you through one of the most neglected and most misused doctrines in all of scripture. And when you actually understand Christian Liberty, you stop majoring on minors. You learn to disagree without dividing. You grow in wisdom and maturity and have genuine love for other believers who see things a little bit differently than you do. Christian Liberty is streaming right now for free on Fortis. Just download the app where you download apps on your smartphone, your smart TV, or just simply go to fortisplus.org

[Dr. John Kratz]

let's

[Fortis Institute Announcer]

be honest, most Christian TV makes you want to change the channel. It's either so watered down is nothing or so weird you're embarrassed someone might walk in while you're watching it. Ratchet TV is neither hosted by Todd Friel. You get teaching that makes sense, cultural commentary that doesn't tiptoe around the hard stuff in theology you can actually understand and apply. And hey, here's a bonus. No one's ever going to ask you to put your hands on the screen. Then there's Witness Wednesday. You can see Todd out in the streets talking to actual people about the gospel. This is not scripted at all. You're going to hear the real responses from real people, whether they like what Todd is saying or not. It'll challenge you, and it might make you a little uncomfortable in the best possible way. Ratchet TV it's available right now on Fortis for free on your smartphone, on your tablet, on your smart TV, or just simply go to fortisplus.org download the app and see what you've been missing.

[Todd Friel]

God has given the church many gifts for the building up of the body. One gift is teaching the spiritual ability to explain and apply God's Word. A teacher studies to gain knowledge of the Bible, is equipped with wisdom to understand it, and is gifted with the ability to explain it to others so they can grow in God's truth and apply it to their daily life. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

Welcome back to Wretched does this describe you? You love Jesus, but you have this besetting sin. It's the one you war with regularly, and perhaps you go through seasons where you regularly feel like you are only being defeated, never having victory, and you've come to the concl God's done with me. There's a theological response to that. It's a Greek word that means, no, he's not. No, he's not. Dr. Jon Kratz, your book Living Confidently in God deals with that subject. I presume it's in here a fair amount because you as a pastor have spent some time with people who feel like God is perhaps done with them because they've sinned one too many times.

[Dr. John Kratz]

Yes, it's certainly true. And it's a really good sign that you care about it. You know, the people I worry about are the ones that keep sinning and they don't even care. They're not even trying to hit the brakes right. The people who have that tender conscience that want to come back and are asking the question, is God done with me? It's a very encouraging sign that no, your conscience still works. The Spirit is still convicting you of this sin, and you need to recognize that Christ's death was adequate even for those sins.

[Todd Friel]

Now the conservative like myself would jump in and go, way to go. You just gave people license to keep on sinning and not to care much about sin. Your response?

[Dr. John Kratz]

If you care about forgiveness from the Lord and you know that the Lord loves you and has forgiven you, I want to come back and say, what do you want to do? Do you want to keep on sinning? Is that what you want to do to such a Savior who would die even for your repeated failures? And usually we know best, we know that the right answer is not to keep on sinning like that. And of course, if we had any doubt, Romans 6 is point blank. You know, should we continue in sin, that grace may increase God forbid. May it never be. Absolutely not. We've been changed by the Lord, and the Lord cares more about our holiness than even we do.

[Todd Friel]

Now, having heard that, there is the side that would say that you can't be talking about grace in those terms because you're going to give somebody license to licentiousness. On the other side, you've got the hyper grace movement. Don't worry about sin. Not a big deal. Jesus loves you, Gracie. Gracealicious. Don't worry about a thing. All right, so help us stay in the right zone here where we don't fall into either ditch.

[Dr. John Kratz]

Yeah, definitely. All of the commands in the New Testament are based squarely upon gospel grace. So nobody's denying the grace of God as being the foundation for our Christian life. But now that God has saved you, he has called us to pursue holiness, and he's given us very clear commands that he intends for us to make every effort to obey. But we don't obey to earn God's favor. We obey because we have God's favor. It's a tender balance.

[Todd Friel]

It is a balance because you can fall off in any ditch. And so if somebody finds themselves going, whoa, whoa, whoa with the grace preaching, it's probably that they're in the ditch of almost bordering on. I don't want to say legalism, because I don't think that's right, but not delighting in grace. On the other hand, do you think the hyper grace trend is done?

[Dr. John Kratz]

I wish, but sadly, it still kind of reemerges every now and then. Although it's maybe an uncharitable thing to say, many of the hyper grace preachers have fallen off the wagon. They've lived out their theology, sadly. I mean, I say that with a broken heart, but yeah, the pendulum swings back and forth.

[Todd Friel]

A lot of issues for the Christian. All right. Another chapter in your book is about when you just feel like God has abandoned you. Now, this is for people who are in Christ. That clears up a lot of confusion. This person is repentant. They put their faith in Jesus Christ and they feel like God has abandoned them. Is that feeling correct?

No.

[Dr. John Kratz]

And as somebody said, we need to not just go by how things feel, but by what is real. And what's real is the truth that God tells us in the scripture that he will never leave you, you, nor forsake you. So we need to readjust our feelings by the facts of the truth of God's word. We don't want to minimize how difficult some people's situation is. And it Absolutely. You have to convince yourself the truth. Come back to the truth and the Lord will bring the emotions back. We don't want to just discount emotions. Emotions are a precious gift from God. But in a fallen world, sometimes our emotions misfire.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah. I think he wasn't the only one. But Herman Bovink, talking about the different diseases, the spiritual maladies one can be of the mind where it's merely intellectual. That's it. Theology, parsing verbs. The other one is just heart. It's all feelings, it's all emotions. There's another malady, which is all will. You just gotta do stuff. Where Christianity becomes doing. You gotta be ingesting the word so it gets all of them.

[Dr. John Kratz]

That's right.

[Todd Friel]

The heart should. In fact, I think J.C. ryle said, the end. The goal really is for the heart to be stirred, but it's through the capacities of the mind. It comes through thinking, it comes through knowledge. But the end is that where our affections are stirred toward the Lord.

[Dr. John Kratz]

Right. Jonathan Edwards was a big proponent of that. And Martyn Lloyd Jones, they would talk about the preaching event. You know, it's got to get to your emotions. Otherwise, we're not just filling books with notes. It's got to get to the heart because that's what drives us to action. I was talking to somebody about that. They were very casual in their prayers. We were in a prayer group together and almost talking to God, like, Buddy. Buddy. And I was trying to show that balance. Yes. What a friend we have in Jesus. But don't ever forget who your friend is.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah, that's right.

[Dr. John Kratz]

The Holy Son of God.

[Todd Friel]

That's right.

[Dr. John Kratz]

So let's not be so casual and informal that we forget his character.

[Todd Friel]

Right.

[Dr. John Kratz]

But it's all true.

[Todd Friel]

I gotta tell you, there's a lovely family at our church, and they're from Boston. And so they talk like they're from Boston. And one day I asked him to pray for the meal. And it was such a sweet prayer. And it was so clear that this guy loved Jesus. It just sounded so odd coming from a guy from Boston. It's like he loves the Lord, but he's gonna go do a hit next. But this was a guy who is a guy. He's not a sissy, who you could tell loved the Lord and was willing to express it. I found it to be a beautiful thing.

[Dr. John Kratz]

Now, that's great.

[Todd Friel]

It just didn't sound like he should feel that way with that accent.

[Dr. John Kratz]

Right.

[Todd Friel]

If I asked you to define you, how would you define yourself? I'm not Talking about your personality, your lifestyle, your education, what makes up you. Perhaps you think, well, it's my brain, that's who I am. Well, the Bible says that's limited. Your brain is a physical organ, but you are the inner man. It's your mind, which is comprised of your whole heart, which does include the intellect, but it also includes will, affection, emotion, reasoning and affections. Question. Does the word of God reach all of you? Dr. Karatz, this is hard because we can easily talk about, hey, don't just be an intellectual Christian. Don't just be an emotions driven or just a will driven Christian. You gotta engage all of your faculties to really be holistically downloading God's word. Sounds easy. How do you do it?

[Dr. John Kratz]

I think meditation is.

[Todd Friel]

You're a Buddhist.

[Dr. John Kratz]

A Buddhist wants you to empty your mind. I actually want you to fill your

[Todd Friel]

mind with God's truth. Okay, so then quickly, what does it mean to meditate on God's word?

[Dr. John Kratz]

I think just simply just thinking about it, thinking over it, looking at it from different ways. I would think praying the scripture is really important. Not only letting the scripture kind of guide your prayers, but praying that God would apply that truth to your heart.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah, I think sometimes one of the hardest things for us is just believing those promises. It's like they're not just documents and statements with terms. That's for me, God cares for me. That's why I think meditation in the sense of believing those promises and allowing yourself to rest in those promises and enjoy those promises and actually feel good about them.

[Dr. John Kratz]

Definitely.

[Todd Friel]

And that all falls underneath meditating, not in an emptying way, but in a filling your brain way.

[Dr. John Kratz]

That's right.

[Todd Friel]

If you struggle to feel the information that you're amassing, meditate in a biblical way. And until tomorrow, go serve your king.