Witness Wednesday: She Couldn’t Say Beating a Child Is Wrong

Summary

Podcast Summary: Wretched Radio with Todd Friel

Episode: Witness Wednesday: Can Evolution Really Explain THIS?
Date: March 11, 2026

Overview

This episode of Wretched Radio with host Todd Friel centers on "Witness Wednesday," featuring live street conversations with students and passersby at the University of Georgia. The episode explores the limitations of evolutionary explanations for morality, conscience, and purpose, and contrasts various worldviews—atheistic, Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, and nihilist—against the Christian gospel. Key themes include objective morality, the human conscience, the existence of God, and the uniqueness of the Christian solution to guilt and justice.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Limits of Evolution Explaining Morality and Emotion

(00:51–10:56, Interview with Alex, Psychology Student)

• Mind and Brain Duality:
  Alex, a psychology student, is questioned about the distinction between the mind and the brain and where emotions originate. He hesitantly leans toward a materialistic, evolutionary explanation but admits there are gaps in this framework.

  "I can't say that we do [have a soul] for sure, but, you know, I don't know." —Alex (01:03)

• Origin of Emotions:
  Alex posits that emotions evolved as the human brain developed. The conversation raises a challenge: how can intangible experiences like emotion arise from purely material processes?

  "Emotion is just... more of a physical thing. You know, it was this evolutionary progress." —Alex (01:50)

• Morality as Societal Construct?
  Alex suggests moral values are relative and culturally determined. Todd challenges this by posing scenarios where societal consensus would justify obvious atrocities, exposing difficulties in anchoring moral absolutes in evolution alone.

  "If you're raised on an island where they said, you know, murdering people was ok, you're gonna grow up thinking murdering people was okay, regardless of evolution or not..." —Alex (04:41)

• Survival of the Fittest Paradox:
  Todd probes further—if morality derives from "survival of the fittest," then practices like caring for the weak or building hospitals would contradict evolution. Alex concedes that evolutionary explanations do not provide ultimate reasons for altruism or purpose.

  "Evolution doesn't solve all the problems. There's a lot of holes in evolution, but it doesn't mean it's not true." —Alex (06:11)

2. Presenting the Christian Worldview

• Todd’s Argument from Conscience and Design:
  Todd presents intuitive arguments for God—as builder (from creation/design) and as source of conscience and justice. He makes a case that Christianity uniquely resolves the problem of guilt and objective morality.

  "My conscience informs me I'm wrong... and if I put them together, what I conclude is there is a creator. He's got to be just. Because I have a sense of right and wrong." —Todd Friel (06:29)

• The Gospel Explained:
  Todd succinctly lays out the Christian gospel: all are guilty before God, but forgiveness comes through Jesus Christ, who bears the punishment for sin.

  "He sent his son, Jesus Christ, to live the perfect life you and I could not live. He was murdered. God was, if you will, pouring out his wrath on his son as a payment for your fines for your crimes against God. Jesus paid the fine..." —Todd Friel (07:38–09:18)

• Alex’s Response:
  Alex remains skeptical, suggesting that any worldview claiming all the answers is inherently suspect and it's okay to live with unknowns.

  "I don't think it's true because I think any worldview that claims to have all the solutions is not a correct worldview because we don't have all solutions." —Alex (10:56)

3. Exploring Ethiopian Orthodox Faith & Sin

(15:15–25:51, Interview with Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Student)

• Symbolism of the Cross & Orthodoxy:
  The student discusses family tradition and community in Ethiopian Orthodoxy, seeing the cross as symbol of faith and Christ’s deeds.

  "The cross represents Christ, in my opinion. I guess that's why we wear it." —Ethiopian Orthodox Guest (17:02)

• Sin and Salvation:
  The student struggles to articulate the way to salvation, focusing on repentance, open confession, and self-improvement, with less emphasis on Christ’s atonement.

  "You probably want to go get saved and repent your sins. I think that's what it's called." —Ethiopian Orthodox Guest (17:36)

• Admission of Sin:
  Though initially reluctant, the student concedes to being a sinner after persistent questioning about lying and minor wrongdoing.

  "I don't know, it's hard to count." —Ethiopian Orthodox Guest (19:54, regarding lying)

• Graded Sins:
  The conversation uncovers a "grading" of sins, suggesting the punishment should fit the severity—a perspective Todd redirects by emphasizing the infinite guilt incurred against a holy God.

  "I don't think you should go to hell just for saying you didn't brush your teeth or something like that. Lying about something like that." —Ethiopian Orthodox Guest (21:08)

• The Gospel Reaffirmed:
  Todd again shares the gospel, clarifying that forgiveness is found in Christ’s sacrificial death and resurrection, and urges genuine repentance and faith.

  "You give Jesus your rap sheet, he gives you his resume, you can be adopted into God's family as his beloved son because of what Jesus Christ did on a cross 2,000 years ago." —Interviewer/Host (24:41)

• Guest’s Conclusion:
  The guest affirms personal openness with God but seems to conflate confession and relationship as the grounds for salvation, rather than Christ alone.

  "If I make a sin, I'm gonna come talk to him about it." —Ethiopian Orthodox Guest (25:36)

4. Confronting Nihilism and Relativism

(32:35–54:33, Interview with Julia, Roman Catholic Nihilist)

• Morality and Nihilism:
  Julia, self-described as a “Roman Catholic nihilist,” cannot affirm that actions like clubbing a child to death are objectively wrong, citing the influence of empathy and evolution, and insisting morality is subjective.

  "I mean, I don't agree with doing that, but I can't objectively say that's wrong." —Julia (35:19)

• Circular Reasoning and Conscience:
  Even when pressed with examples of obvious wrongs, Julia distinguishes personal beliefs from objective truths, highlighting the confusion and paralysis induced by postmodern academic thinking.

  "Who am I to say what is right and wrong?... I may have my own beliefs about what is right and wrong, and it may not line up with yours." —Julia (34:37)

• Role of Authority and Law:
  Todd draws analogies from law—how greater punishments come with offenses against higher authorities—and applies them to God as the ultimate authority, reinforcing the seriousness of sin.

  "The one against whom I committed the crime... God is way higher than all of those entities." —Interviewer/Host (22:26, earlier conversation mirrored here)

• Gospel Revisited and Objections:
  Todd walks through Christian doctrine (law, sin, judgment) and asks Julia what provision Roman Catholicism offers. She references confession and penance but admits lack of certainty.

  "Confession, like admitting to your sins, asking for forgiveness, and then the word for penance." —Julia (45:10)

• Resurrection and Evidence:
  Skeptical of Christian exclusivity, Julia suggests Judaism makes more logical sense and questions the historical accuracy of the gospel accounts. Todd briefly introduces textual criticism and the early testimony for the resurrection.

  "How do we know that? We're going through books that were written years ago. And they could have been false. They could have been folktales..." —Julia (50:21)

• Dialectic and ‘Two Truths’:
  Julia defends the idea of “dialectic” or coexisting truths, referencing dialectical behavior therapy (DBT) and Socratic discussion, but Todd pushes back, asserting two contradictory truths cannot both be true in matters of reality.

  "It's dialectic. It's two truths. Like, again, we'll never know which one is the correct truth." —Julia (52:21)
  "Two truths that are diametrically opposed can't both be true." —Interviewer/Host (52:41)

• Closing Plea:
  Todd urges Julia to genuinely consider the claims of Christ and the logic of objective truth, warning against the existential consequences of sustained nihilism.

  "The worldview that I'm describing for you, it is hopeful, but not because it just makes you feel good, but because it’s true." —Interviewer/Host (51:56)
  "If you ever get to that point, that's the gospel of Jesus Christ. And it's available to you till you take your last breath." —Interviewer/Host (54:24)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Todd Friel, on Objective Morality:

  "There are just some things that are just plain wrong and certain things that are nice. Where did that come from?" (04:15)

• Julia, on Relativism:

  "I mean, I don't agree with doing that [clubbing children], but I can't objectively say that's wrong." (35:19)

• Todd Friel, on Sin Against God:

  "It increases in its punishment. God is way higher than all of those entities." (22:26)

• Todd Friel, on Gospel Assurance:

  "You give Jesus your rap sheet, he gives you his resume, you can be adopted into God's family as his beloved son because of what Jesus Christ did on a cross 2,000 years ago." (24:41)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:51–10:56 – Interview with Alex: Evolution, morality, and limits of materialistic explanations
• 15:15–25:51 – Interview with Ethiopian Orthodox Christian: Sin, confession, and the meaning of the cross
• 32:35–54:33 – Interview with Julia: Nihilism, relativism, and the clash with conscience; Gospel presented and challenged

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Tone and Style

The episode combines Socratic questioning, street-level apologetics, and earnest gospel proclamation. Todd Friel’s tone oscillates between probing, challenging, and pastoral, aiming for moments of clarity, conviction, and gospel hope.

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Conclusion

This Witness Wednesday episode demonstrates the struggle students face in reconciling evolutionary, syncretistic, or relativist worldviews with the intuitive realities of conscience, guilt, and the search for meaning. Through real conversations, the program exposes the existential confusion resulting from purely naturalistic or postmodern frameworks, and presents the Christian worldview as both intellectually robust and existentially satisfying. The episode’s honest, sometimes tense exchanges model respectful but direct engagement on the deepest questions of life and faith.

Transcript

[Todd Friel]

Wretched radio begins in 3, 2, 1.

[Interviewer / Host]

So it's not a sin in your church to have an abortion.

[Narrator / Announcer]

That's the kind of conversation we would

[Interviewer / Host]

have finding out your story, where you're from.

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

God's the judge. People have to live to their own conviction.

[Interviewer / Host]

The science is clear, the Bible is clear. And if we're honest, our intuitions are

[Narrator / Producer]

clear, we know what we're killing.

[Interviewer / Host]

We're killing a human being.

[Todd Friel]

It's time for Wretched Radio with Todd. Fr.

[Narrator / Producer]

Hello and welcome to Witness Wednesday. Let's go to UGA and see if we can find a segue. You're going to meet Alex. He's studying psychology. How do you take a simple question about somebody's academic studies and segue into the gospel?

[Interviewer / Host]

Alex, you are studying to be a psychologist. Cool. So do you think that human beings are there brains or are we something else?

[Alex (Psychology Student)]

You're asking if the mind and brain are separate. That's hard because you can pinpoint every action or every emotion you have to a certain function in the brain. So you're asking if there's something else than that. If there's like a soul or something. You can't prove it. I'm not gonna deny it because that would be ignorant of me because I don't have all the information. But I can't, can't say that we do. There is something else for sure, but you know, I don't know.

[Interviewer / Host]

That's fair enough. All right, you mentioned that there's an emotional center. Where do you think that emotions, the whole concept of emotions, feeling that whole thing that's kind of invisible. We definitely have it. Where did that come from?

[Alex (Psychology Student)]

I think it's an evolutionary thing. It was developed through time. And it's like I said, you can point like when you have emotions, certain parts of the brain light up and are really functional during those times. So I think emotion is just. It's more of a physical thing. You know, it was this evolutionary progress

[Interviewer / Host]

and when did that start and why?

[Alex (Psychology Student)]

I mean, I'm not an expert, but my guess would be like when we stopped just hunting and gathering and we had more time to think and more time to think about emotions, think about love and all that. Maybe that time in over evolution we started having more room in our brain for emotions and all that because we didn't need to hunt all the time or we weren't fighting for survival every day.

[Interviewer / Host]

But that still begs the question, I might have a lot of free time, but how would I think about something that doesn't exist?

[Alex (Psychology Student)]

It's true. I think it just, it created through evolution. I think, like, I don't know when exactly it started emotional. I don't know, like if we started out when we, when we became emotional creatures, when we hopped from just like survivalist animals to having emotion, all that, I don't know when.

[Interviewer / Host]

Would you agree with me that if I had a club in my hand and I went over and I said I'm going to, to beat that woman in the peach colored sweater with a club, would you tell me I'm wrong to do that?

[Alex (Psychology Student)]

Yeah, you're wrong. But that's a moral thing. And moral things are based on society. We as a society decide what is moral and what is not. If you do something bad, it's because society thinks it's bad and they will look at you negatively if you do that.

[Interviewer / Host]

So you and I jump onto an airplane and we fly to the island of Boingo Boingo. And we get out, we check into our hotel, we. We're reading through the welcome to Boingo Boingo literature. And it says that they're going to have a beating. Women in peach sweaters with a club festival because their culture has decided it's a good thing. Would you be willing to tell them it's wrong because they've determined culturally it's a good thing?

[Alex (Psychology Student)]

Well, in the position I was in, I would not, because I would not want to be murdered as well. I would definitely think it was still wrong.

[Interviewer / Host]

But you see my point though. Just because a culture says it is or isn't, there's still something that tells us there are certain things that are just plain wrong and certain things that are nice. Where did that come from? From an evolutionary standpoint, Isn't it actually a good thing if I take out weaker people so that I can go for survival of the fittest? Wouldn't that be an extension of Darwinian evolution?

[Alex (Psychology Student)]

Yeah, I mean, but it's also based on how you're raised. If you're raised on an island where they said, you know, murdering people was ok, you're gonna grow up thinking murdering people was okay, regardless of evolution or not, and same vice versa. I was growing up in America and murdering people is wrong. And I've grown up to think that and I know that to be true to myself and to the standards of society that I live in.

[Interviewer / Host]

But you said you know it to be true regardless, really of what culture says. I'm going a step further, Alex. I'm working with your worldview. The natural extension of it is not kindness. It really should be cruelty. And our hospitals are actually not the fruit of Darwinian evolution because we should be letting the weak die, let the useless feeders die off so that the stronger ones can survive. Wouldn't a hospital stand in contradiction to evolutionary science?

[Alex (Psychology Student)]

Yeah, but also in evolution, we're supposed to support our own, you know, and make sure that line keeps going. So it is natural for us to help each other out, you know, to keep the human line going.

[Interviewer / Host]

Why isn't survival of the fittest at the core of evolution?

[Alex (Psychology Student)]

So our species can survive, you know, we help each other out so we can keep surviving, and our species will evolve into something greater eventually.

[Interviewer / Host]

But I'm just wondering, though, if your evolutionary worldview provides rationale and an explanation for that.

[Alex (Psychology Student)]

Oh, of why? No, no. It doesn't say the why. I don't know why we're here or why we want to keep going, but it's just a natural thing. And sometimes we don't know why. Evolution doesn't solve all the problems. There's a lot of holes in evolution, but it doesn't mean it's not true.

[Interviewer / Host]

Here's what I think. I think there's a Creator, because I look around and I go, these buildings didn't make themselves. And your left eyeball is more intricate than that entire building and all of the wiring in it. So I conclude I didn't see anybody make that building. But I know there's a builder because there's a building. So I know there's an eye maker, because your eye is intricately designed. So I intuit God exists. Furthermore, I have a conscience. I've got that little courtroom in my brain that says I've done bad things. I've got guilt, I've got shame, I've got regrets. I look around at the world and I see justice. That we have a sense inside of us that beating up women with a club is a bad thing. Stealing somebody's stuff, it's bad. My conscience informs me I'm wrong. I have a sense that there is justice because I see the court systems. I see police arresting bad guys, them being punished for their crimes. And I start to think about all of these things. And if I put them together, what I conclude is there is a creator. He's got to be just. Because I have a sense of right and wrong. I've got emotions and feelings because this Creator does. I can communicate because my maker does. I have a sense of justice because God himself is just. And I think that the Christian worldview harmonizes all of those things has an explanation for why we're here and what's going to happen to us when we die. So here's the summation, Alex. I think God is the Creator and He is holy, righteous and just. And he's appointed a day where he's going to call everybody into the courtroom of his justice system. And he's going to open up the books and he's going to see everything that we've done, because he's seen everything that we've done. He's heard everything that we've said. He knows every deed that we've done in darkness. He knows how we fail to be good and kind when we should. He knows when we've been cruel. He knows when we've stolen or lied or lusted or looked at pornography. And God is going to render a verdict on us. And if we're honest with ourselves, we realize that courtroom in our brain says we're guilty. And if God slams his gavel of justice and finds us guilty, we're going to go to a very bad place where lawbreakers go. It's a place called hell. That's what I think explains everything. But if I ended the story right there, it would be very bleak and I would want to become a nihilist very quickly because that is not a hopeful worldview. But God is rich in mercy and he's good and he's loving and he's forgiving. But there's some tension in this scenario. God is just. He's got to punish lawbreakers, but he desires to forgive guilty criminals. So God, he predetermined a plan where he could be just and the justifier of those who are guilty. Here's what he did. He sent his son, Jesus Christ, to live the perfect life you and I could not live. He was murdered. God was, if you will, pouring out his wrath on his son as a payment for your fines for your crimes against God. Jesus paid the fine. He died. He rose again. And he is prepared to forgive sinners. God is just. He desires to forgive people, but he can't just let guilty criminals off the hook. So he satisfies justice through the payment of his son, Jesus Christ, so that you and I can be forgiven. Our conscience can be cleansed. No more guilt, no more shame, no more remorse. And now I know what's going to happen to me when I die. I'm going to heaven and not to hell because Jesus paid my fine. That is the worldview that I think explains all of it. There's beauty because God has determined what is beautiful there is evil. We know that because God is just. And we know that anything that is not like God is a bad thing. So I think the Christian worldview explains all of those things that we were talking about, including having a purpose for your life. You could now live for God, the highest pursuit that anybody can. You can go on to be whatever you want in your profession, but you do it striving to be obedient to God because He died to save you, a sinner. That's the Christian worldview. All right, my question for you, Alex, Is that worldview true or false?

[Alex (Psychology Student)]

I don't think it's true because I think any worldview that claims to have all the solutions is not a correct worldview because we don't have all solutions. I know that for a fact. And I think it's okay to admit that we don't know some things.

[Narrator / Producer]

If I understood that correctly, Alex is saying that we can absolutely, definitely know for a fact. Fact.

[Interviewer / Host]

There's nothing to be known for certain.

[Narrator / Producer]

This is wretched radio.

[Promotional Voice / Announcer]

Remember when the craziest cultural ideas stayed in dystopian novels? Yeah, those days are over. We're living in the brave new world now, and it showed up faster than anyone expected it to. Social media didn't just change how we communicate, it changed how everyone thinks. And if you're not ready as a Christian, to defend what you believe about gender and sexuality and race and entertainment and a dozen other hot button issues, you're going to get so steamrolled. Worldview 2 picks up where the first one left off. Todd Friel and Dr. Nathan Buznitz tackle 22 more issues through a biblical lens. Critical race theory, modesty, persecution, environmentalism, secular entertainment and more. The stuff you're actually seeing in the headlines and hearing at your dinner table. Because the Christian worldview is under assault and, I don't know, isn't going to cut it anymore. Wretched Worldview 2 is available in streaming right now for free on Fortis Plus. You can download the app on your smartphone, on your smart TV, or simply

[Narrator / Producer]

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It's Master's university, the university with the university experience experience without the university experience. Masters Edu Wretched hey, thanks for listening

[Promotional Voice / Announcer]

to Wretched Radio today. Let me ask you a question. Have you experienced any type of real change in the areas of your life that really need it the most? Or do you find yourself just getting by, just figuring out a way to manage to the next day?

[Narrator / Announcer]

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[Promotional Voice / Announcer]

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[Todd Friel]

Books of the Bible

[Alex (Psychology Student)]

Second

[Todd Friel]

Timothy is Paul's last letter before his execution. He encourages Timothy to persevere amid suffering. Paul had suffered for the sake of the gospel, but he also knew the beauty and power of the gospel. He charges Timothy to cling to and preach the gospel. When you face opposition, do not fear or be ashamed, but trust God and rely on his word. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Narrator / Producer]

The hardest part of a witness Encounter the Segue. This is Wretched Radio. Having a conversation with somebody in the realm of the natural, segueing to the spiritual, it can be kind of challenging. Let's go back out to UGA and see if we can cross the bridge from the natural realm into the spiritual realm via a t shirt.

[Interviewer / Host]

40s and shorties. You want to explain that shirt?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

Well, basically why I got this shirt is because I like the colors and 40s and shorties. It just kind of reminds me of the good times. Summertime, you know what I'm saying? Fun pool party type vibes. Something like that.

[Interviewer / Host]

Man, you're being coy. All right, so what is this? That's laying on top of it across. Why are you wearing that?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

Well, the reason why I'm wearing this particular one because I got it as a graduation gift from my grandparents when they came back from Ethiopia, which where they're from. And we're Orthodox Christians, so that's a part of our religion.

[Interviewer / Host]

Tell me, Eastern Orthodoxy, what are the basic teachings of that faith?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

Well, I learned a lot more about it when I went back to Ethiopia. I was able to go to the original Orthodox Church that they had. It's same as, like basic Christian values. It's just a lot more strict, like they do fast. It's a lot closer to God. I don't know. Like this basic explaining of the values.

[Interviewer / Host]

So if I asked you, I'd like to become Eastern Orthodox. I keep saying Eastern. It's Ethiopian Orthodox. I want to become an Ethiopian Orthodox Christian. Why should I do that?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

Because they're not real judgmental and things like that. It's very open to me, the religion and things like that. And it's very welcoming. Like, every time I've been to church, I never felt like I was judged or anything like that. I think it's a very relaxed religion, but it has a lot of good. It has a strong foundation and a lot of strong values, and it has a very strong history, in my opinion, from the things I've learned about it.

[Interviewer / Host]

When I went back as a part of Ethiopian Orthodoxy. What does this cross symbolize?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

It just symbolizes your faith, basically, that I'm a believer in it, so I'm really representing it.

[Interviewer / Host]

Why a cross as opposed to a church building hanging from your neck?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

Because the cross represents Christ, in my opinion. I guess that's why we wear it.

[Interviewer / Host]

All right, and what does the cross do or what does it accomplish? What's the point of the cross?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

Well, when I see a cross, I just basically think of God, basically, and whatever. What all he done for us.

[Interviewer / Host]

So if I want to go to heaven, what do I need to do to be saved according to the Ethiopian Orthodox Church?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

I mean, I don't. I guess don't commit any sins.

[Interviewer / Host]

Well, that's a problem because I have. Now what do I do?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

You probably want to go get saved and repent your sins. I think that's what it's called.

[Interviewer / Host]

Okay, why do I want to do that?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

Hey, if you want to get accepted into those doors, I think that's a part of the guidelines.

[Interviewer / Host]

All right, you're gonna have to explain that. First of all, I don't know.

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

Basically, I don't know the real vocabulary behind it because I'm not a very average. Like, I don't go to church every Sunday, so I can't tell you really textbook sayings about it. I'm just telling you based off of what I've been passed down. So.

[Interviewer / Host]

So in order for me to go to heaven, I need to. What did you say? Repent?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

Yeah, save yourself.

[Interviewer / Host]

How do I save myself?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

Basically come forward to God as a sinner, Aaron. Basically tell him will be open to him about the things you've done and he might accept you back, I guess, in that way.

[Interviewer / Host]

So you're calling me a sinner?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

You called yourself a sinner, man. You say if you make a sin, you're a sinner.

[Interviewer / Host]

Are you a sinner?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

No, I try not to sin. I'm on the right path so far.

[Interviewer / Host]

Okay, I am now really skeptical. You're telling me you've never sinned?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

I know you see a good looking guy like me, man, he's just hard to believe. But hey, I mean, is cursing really sinning? If you curse?

[Interviewer / Host]

Well, how's about taking the Lord's name in vain? Have you ever broken that commandment?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

Probably wanted twice when I was younger, but.

[Interviewer / Host]

And what's the expiration date on criminality? If you did it 20 years ago or two minutes ago, you still did it, right?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

Yeah, but that's light. It's like a light one. I didn't rob a killing.

[Promotional Voice / Announcer]

What?

[Interviewer / Host]

Hold up, we'll get to that. Wait a second. So you're telling me that God, the creator of the universe, we can just use his name like a four letter filth word?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

Oh, no, no, no. I didn't say that. I didn't say it was right. I just said I did it before and I didn't think it was. I mean, I did it before, but I didn't do anything worse than that. That's like. That's when I was younger.

[Interviewer / Host]

And you've never stolen anything?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

Oh no, no, no. I don't like thieves.

[Interviewer / Host]

You've never taken anything that didn't belong to you?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

No, no, no.

[Interviewer / Host]

Downloading music.

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

I look like I still. I have apple music. I stream all the music for free because I pay my subscription.

[Interviewer / Host]

That's fair. I probably need to update my illustrations. Okay, what about a pencil from somebody at school?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

No, no, no. I borrow it and hand it right back.

[Interviewer / Host]

Some coins from your parents dresser?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

No, I asked.

[Interviewer / Host]

How many lies have you told in your life?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

I don't know, it's hard to count.

[Interviewer / Host]

A lot.

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

I mean when you're little, everybody tells little white lies and things like that. Like stuff to your parents. Like, did you do your homework? Like, yeah, I didn't do it yet, but I did it like something like that.

[Interviewer / Host]

I don't know why it's white or orange or purple, but that's a Lie. Now, how do I know if you're telling me the truth about stealing now that I know you're a liar?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

I mean, hey, you're just gonna basically have to base the judgment off, like, whatever your perception is.

[Interviewer / Host]

All right, so what you think of me? All right, in all seriousness, you and I have broken the commandments, right? All right, so if God is just and he judges you and me when we die, what's he going to do with two people like you and me who have broken his laws?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

Well, hopefully, when me and you go to that door, it's somebody worse than us, and he just like, okay, I'm going to accept you and I'll let them go down there.

[Interviewer / Host]

That's. That's probably what everybody in prison says, right? Look, I'm not as bad as the dude on death row. And then the dude on death row goes, look, I'm no Adolf Hitler. And Adolf Hitler goes, what do you think I am, Genghis Khan? Everybody thinks they're better compared to somebody. But that's not the issue for criminals. You break the law, you do the time. Fair enough.

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Host]

So if you and I have broken the laws, don't we need to do the time?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

I mean, I believe it's circumstances to each one. I don't think you should go to hell just for saying you didn't brush your teeth or something like that. Lying about something like that. Do you think you should go to the breaking any. Like, it should be some circumstances, right? It should be, like, levels, right?

[Interviewer / Host]

All right, I agree with the levels part, but I want you to track with me, all right? If I tell a lie to my son, do you know what's gonna happen to me?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

No, what's gonna happen?

[Interviewer / Host]

Nothing. Let's say I tell a lie to my wife, do you know where I'm gonna be sleeping tonight?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

On the couch.

[Interviewer / Host]

If I tell a lie to my wife? Boss, what do you think's gonna happen? Am I gonna get a raise or might I get fired?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

I mean, it depends if he finds out or not.

[Interviewer / Host]

He finds out.

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

Oh, yeah, you might get fired. It depends. Everything depends on the circumstances.

[Interviewer / Host]

Keep tracking with me. I'm going in a different direction, but keep following me. Well, that's a good thing. All right, now, let's say I tell a lie to the government. I just. I tell a lie, I could go to jail. Now, just track with me for a moment. I tell a lie to my son. Nothing. Tell a lie to my wife, I'm sleeping on the couch. Tell a lie to my boss. I get fired, I tell a lie to the government, I go to jail. What changed? I committed the same crime each time, but I received a greater punishment. What changed in that scenario?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

The circumstances.

[Interviewer / Host]

The one against whom I committed the crime. So if I tell a little white lie to my son, not such a big deal. But it increases in its punishment. God is way higher than all of those entities. So you and I can see it. Like little white lies or boo boos or oopses or boys will be boys. Not the way God sees it. He sees them as high handed crimes. And because our sins are committed against him who is infinite and holy and eternal, the punishment for our sins, even telling a lie, is eternal conscious torment. That's bad news.

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

So if you lie to anybody, that's the consequence?

[Interviewer / Host]

Well, here's what the Bible says. All liars will have their part in a lake of fire. Because when you break a law, you're a law breaker. Think about a piece of glass and I wrote the numbers 1 through 10 on it. You took a rock and you threw it through just one of the numbers. What's going to happen to the glass?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

The whole thing?

[Interviewer / Host]

You break one law, you're a lawbreaker. You're a criminal in the eyes of God. And our crimes have been committed against the highest being there is. That's why the punishment is so awful. It's not necessarily the nature of our crimes per se. It's the one against whom we've committed the crimes. That's what makes them a big deal. All right, now this is important. You and I are guilty criminals. You and I should go to hell. What did God do so that sinners could be forgiven? What did he do? What does that mean? He died for all of our sins on that cross. That's the message of the cross. The message of the cross is twofold. You're a sinner. You need somebody to be your substitute. You need a sacrifice. It also says that God is good and he's rich in mercy. He hates sin, but he loves us anyway and he died so that your court case could be dismissed. That's the gospel of the Jesus Christ, that all of your sins can be forgiven. That's why that symbol is so important. But the question is, how do you get forgiven by God? What would you say to that?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

I mean, I think, don't you just get saved? I thought that's what everybody does to get forgiven by God or come. I know, I just remember in church they used to say you have to come to him as a sinner.

[Interviewer / Host]

I Agree? What does that mean?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

I don't know. I just heard him say it.

[Interviewer / Host]

Well, repent is a word that means you'd probably change your mind. You turn. You turn from your sins. You repent of your sins. You apologize for your sins. You commit to not committing those sins again. Now, it doesn't mean you become perfect, but you don't desire those things anymore. And you put your faith in Jesus Christ and him alone. And God says, I'll wipe your slate clean. And I'll credit you with all the righteousness of Jesus Christ. So you can be seen not only as a forgiven criminal, but as the righteousness of God. You give Jesus your rap sheet, he gives you his resume, you can be adopted into God's family as his beloved son because of what Jesus Christ did on a cross 2,000 years ago. So here's my last question. Have you repented and put your faith in Jesus Christ?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

Yes.

[Interviewer / Host]

So when we die, you and I are going to heaven because of Jesus Christ.

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

I mean, I can't speak for you, but I know I'm going to heaven. I don't know what you did.

[Interviewer / Host]

Why are you going to heaven?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

Because I'm open with God and He knows everything I do. And if I make a sin, I'm gonna come talk to him about it.

[Interviewer / Host]

How's about you can go to heaven because Jesus Christ forgives you and saves you? How's that?

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

Yeah. That's two.

[Interviewer / Host]

Hey, you're a gentleman and I'm glad you talked to me today.

[Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Guest]

Thank you for your time.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah. All right, sir. Thank you.

[Narrator / Announcer]

And it's now time for your daily Fortis news break, a production of Fortis Institute. The Trump administration continues to draw clear lines on immigration. Now Small Business Administration is banning all noncitizens from receiving SBA backed loans. The administrator, Kelly Loeffler, announced the expansion, noting that with lending authority capped by Congress and record demand for capital, American taxpayers money should go to. Novel concept here, Americans. The policy builds on last month's restriction blocking foreign nationals from core loan programs. Meanwhile, in Nashville, a Colombian born reporter covering ICE operations was herself detained by ICE because she overstayed her tourist visa by five years. Her attorneys cry First Amendment retaliation, but the government points to the overstayed visa, missed immigration appointments, and conveniently timed marriage to an American right before her court summons. Her attorneys blamed scheduling errors for the missed appointments. The government disagrees either way. Reporter who covers immigration enforcement turns out to need Immigration Enforcement is a headline that writes itself. The Global Pushback Against Gender Ideology scored several wins this week, South Dakota Supreme Court unanimously ruled that transgender individuals cannot change the sex or name on their birth certificates, affirming that these documents exist to record biological facts, not your feelings. Over at the United nations, the Commission on the Status of Women produced a document so infected by gender ideology that it couldn't even define what a woman is. The US was the only nation out of 36 to vote against it. HHS Director of Global Affairs Bethany Kosma said the American delegation offered common sense amendments, including one that simply defined men and women, but the commission bundled all amendments together to ensure they'd fail. Kosma called it a deliberate attempt to isolate America. Pixar, meanwhile, is finally admitting what parents already knew. Chief Creative Officer Pete Docter explained why the studio killed a gay storyline in Elio, admitting parents weren't ready for those conversations in children's films. Doctor said, we're making a movie, not hundreds of millions of dollars of therapy. The admission came after the movie flopped, while the LGBT Free Hoppers became Pixar's first big hit of the year. Activists blamed the edits for Elio's failure, but the more likely culprit was leaked reports of queer coded content across the Atlantic. A U.S. state Department official suggested Britons might soon be justified seeking asylum in America over their country's free speech crisis. It sounds extreme until you see the numbers over 12,000 arrests in 2023 alone for social media posts deemed grossly offensive. That's roughly 33 per day in a country where shoplifting is practically legal. And that wraps up today's Fortis News Break. I'm Jimmy Hicks, and if you want more, you can download Fortis plus or sign up to become a Fortis Insider for exclusive daily content. Both of those things can be [e-mail] also, don't forget you can subscribe to this here Fortis newscast on your favorite podcast app so you can get these updates sent directly to you every single day. And until tomorrow, go serve your king.

[Todd Friel]

Know your reformers. Ulrich Zwingli was a Swiss reformer who pioneered expository preaching, introduced the regulative principle, and brought Republican government to Switzerland. He fought against the Roman Catholic Church for theological and political independence and died in battle. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Narrator / Producer]

Prepare to meet a woman who is uniquely identical to everyone else. What are you talking about? This is Wretched Radio. It is oh so common these days for the unbelieving world to be syncretistic. I'll take a little bit of this worldview. I'll take a Dollop of that worldview. I'll put it into one dish. Voila. It is my unique worldview that is so common these days. And so every single person who is an atheist has a uniquely identical worldview. What makes it identical is it's syncretistic. What makes it unique is everybody's concoction is different from everybody else's. And that is true with Julia the Roman Catholic nihilist. There's a combo platter for you. What I appreciated the most about this young lady is that she was not being consistent with her worldview. I believe that the nihilistic worldview, there is nothing. There's no purpose, there's no reality, there's no truth. There is nothing that we can cling to as being absolute. That is the natural, I think, honest conclusion of atheism. And it is a super bleak worldview. And yet Julia was quite pleasant, which I appreciated. So she wasn't consistent with her worldview. She wasn't really believing it. She was ascribing to it, but she was demonstrating she wasn't living it. And we should be grateful for that. Sadly, however, I do believe this worldview of smashing together everything as your own valid truth, because there is absolutely no truth. It does lead to a depressed, nihilistic worldview. And I think you will hear that coming out of Julia, because if she really thinks this through, she'll recognize that her feet are firmly planted in midair and she is living a life that is so conflicting. Increasingly, I am persuaded, persuaded this is a key component in the suicide and depression rates that we see in university students these days.

[Interviewer / Host]

And you are going to hear that.

[Narrator / Producer]

Prepare to meet Julia the Roman Catholic nihilist who can't even tell me clubbing small children to death is wrong.

[Interviewer / Host]

Now, think about that for a moment.

[Narrator / Producer]

Put yourself in her Birkenstocks for a moment. How would you feel about being forced to say that clubbing of small children could be okay in some society because you have been told by academia there is no truth, because intuitively you know that's just not right. No time, no place, no circumstance could that possibly be correct. And yet I have to tell somebody who asks me about it. No, I can't tell you that. That's absolutely true. Imagine the consternation you are going to hear that clearly in Julia the nihilist.

[Interviewer / Host]

I want to go to a different part of your brain, okay? I want to go to the area of your conscience. Now, you and I, we were talking before, we're talking now. How many have you brought up Religion,

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

probably a good bit, but that is

[Interviewer / Host]

because I'm at least a dozen.

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

That's because I'm, like, qualms with religion.

[Interviewer / Host]

How many times have I brought up religion? None. I'm going to now. All right. I am now going to try a religious conversation. Addressing your conscience, not your intellect, center, not your frontal lobe. I want to get to that courtroom in your brain and see what this elicits from you. All right. Morality laws. Let's just say, because we've got absolute morality, like murder, we agree that's wrong. Rape, it's wrong. Lying, it's wrong. Here's my question. Have you ever lied?

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

Yes.

[Interviewer / Host]

So you've done something that's wrong,

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

but who's to say it's wrong?

[Interviewer / Host]

I think your conscience tells you it's wrong.

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

Again, this is the whole thing with being slightly nihilist. I don't claim I'm a full nihilist, but.

[Narrator / Producer]

I know.

[Interviewer / Host]

But now you're getting into that reason and logic part. I'm pulling the microphone. I told you I was going to pull the microphone away, didn't I?

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

Yes.

[Interviewer / Host]

All right, Because I want to stick with your conscience, all right? Hating somebody, being angry at somebody. Have you ever felt that way? Like a jerk driver, an idiot on campus? Okay, so not a nice thing, right? Okay. What about desiring things that don't belong to you? Like, that guy has that. But I should have it. I want that instead.

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

I actually have that camera, but.

[Interviewer / Host]

So you don't want that camera, but you know what? I'm. The word is coveting.

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

No, I understand. And I know you're talking about all the Ten Commandments right now.

[Interviewer / Host]

Good on you. Catholic. Very good.

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

I didn't lose everything that I was taught in school, but, I mean, again, I know you're trying to avoid the logic, but who am I to say what is right and wrong? Who am I to tell others what is right and wrong? I may have my own beliefs about what is right and wrong, and it may not line up with yours. That is just how I see it.

[Interviewer / Host]

Okay. The question, though, is what realm are you addressing if we're talking about going to Dairy Queen? You think the chocolate cone is better? I like the one with the crunchy things on top, and I say that's better. Those are preference issues. But there are areas of thinking that are either true or false. Clubbing a small child to death, we can agree that's wrong, right?

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

I mean, I don't agree with doing that, but I can't objectively say that's wrong.

[Interviewer / Host]

Really isn't truly honest, though. Yeah, I know, but isn't this. I know. The nihilism. You don't want the objective truth, but isn't there something inside of you that goes, okay, that's just always wrong no matter where you are.

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

That, I believe, is due to empathy and how we've evolved to have a greater sense of empathy in the past. But if you also look at groups like ISIS and whatnot, what they're doing, they believe it's right.

[Interviewer / Host]

Is it?

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

I can't answer to that.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yes, you can.

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

I don't agree with it. I don't have to agree with something for it to be what's right for

[Interviewer / Host]

someone else flying an airplane into a building while people are still drinking their Starbucks in the morning. Come on, we can say that's wrong.

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

I know you're just trying to get me tongue twisted because you don't want to.

[Interviewer / Host]

I'm not.

[Narrator / Producer]

I'm pleading with you to let that

[Interviewer / Host]

thing inside of you that realizes there is just some stuff that's bad.

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

I could say yes, but again, that's my opinion, so it's objective.

[Interviewer / Host]

I want to take you now to the courtroom of God's justice. Bible quote for you. First one, it is appointed unto man once to die, and then judgment. Bible says we die. We stand before God, who's a righteous, holy judge, and he opens up those 10 Commandments on you, and he's been an eyewitness to everything you've done, said, thought, the books cannot be fudged. He knows it all. Would God find you, Julia, innocent or guilty of keeping the laws?

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

I would say innocent of some, but guilty of others. I try to be the best person that I personally believe I can be. And what I believe is good. But everyone has their, like, wrongdoings, that's for sure. But to them, it may be right. Like, again, I'm just. I'm gonna keep circling back to this.

[Interviewer / Host]

But no, let me just to, like, maybe bring some clarity to it. Imagine the police came, put you in handcuffs because they had all the video of you speeding constantly on the freeway. Okay.

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

Okay.

[Interviewer / Host]

They bring you into the courtroom, and the judge says, look, the speed sign was posted right there. You knew that it was 55 there you are doing 90 again. We've got the videotape. You are guilty. Would you say, well, that's just your subjective opinion, sir.

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

You could, but in this.

[Narrator / Producer]

But you'd go to jail.

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

Yeah. Because in this case, it is a law written by humans. And so you kind of need to follow this because it's for other safeties. And yes, that's the same thing with a lot of morality. I understand that, but.

[Interviewer / Host]

But now I think we might be getting someplace. The whole idea of true truth and morality. The only reason that you're speeding when you're driving down the freeway is because the authority has said you will go this fast and no faster. If there were no signs. You can drive as fast as you want to, right?

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

You could. Yes.

[Interviewer / Host]

So it takes an authority to make the proclamation. This is what is legal. This is what is illegal. I agree with you. If there were no objective US Authority, this is all preference, and we should eat, drink, and be merry because we're just going to die and become worm food. But God, the Creator, which we intuitively know exists. We look at the creation, we conclude there's a Creator, We've got a conscience that tells us I've done wrong and that I'm guilty and that death might not be the best thing for me because I might have to deal with the consequences of my behavior. Behavior. The objective judge has determined lying, stealing, cheating, sexism, racism, wrong, wrong, wrong. He's the one who makes things right and wrong, and we either adhere to his standard or we don't.

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

It's just the problem is all this is a matter of opinion and perception.

[Interviewer / Host]

Well, that's why I'm trying to avoid the logic and reason with you a little bit. My earnest question is, Julia, let's just say we see courts, we see police, we see laws, we see justice. I would tell you those ideas come from outside of us. God is just. He has laws and he has a courtroom, and he's going to deal with criminals. And there's something inside of us that goes, you know what? I'm a guilty criminal.

[Narrator / Producer]

Timeout right there. Julia, the Roman Catholic nihilist. Her worldview, it is as thick as a dense fog. Adrienne Barbeau wouldn't want to walk into that fog. How do you clear it? How do you get through a syncretistic worldview that is bleak indeed, that won't even allow you to say, clubbing small children is always wrong and always all times, all places. How do you do that? Next on Wretched Radio.

[Promotional Voice / Announcer]

Conflict. That's not an if in your life, that's a when. You will most definitely disagree with your spouse, your kids, your co workers, your in laws, maybe all of them in the same week. The question is whether those disagreements turn your home into a war zone or something you can actually resolve. That's what our resource conflict is all about. Todd Friel, who admits he's an expert in conflict mostly because he's caused so much of it, and Dr. John street will both challenge you to respond in ways so radically biblical that even the people you've been fighting with will take notice. They'll walk you through biblical reconciliation step by step so you can actually heal what's been broken. If you're exhausted from the same arguments on repeat, if your home feels more like a battlefield than a refuge, there is a better way. And it's not another self help technique. It is Scripture Conflict is streaming right now on Fortis for free. Just download the app on your smartphone, on your smart TV, or simply go to fortisplus.org so we decided to run the gospel through a Focus Groove and they loved the part about love. Then came the notes Sin.

[Narrator / Announcer]

Well, it sounds a little bit harsh,

[Promotional Voice / Announcer]

so they suggested we call it personal brokenness.

[Narrator / Producer]

Hell.

[Narrator / Announcer]

Well, that's a big negative.

[Promotional Voice / Announcer]

Maybe spiritual separation, saying Jesus is the only way? Well, that's just intolerant. You have to make him one of many meaningful paths.

[Narrator / Announcer]

And the call to repent and believe?

[Promotional Voice / Announcer]

That just raises a little bit of friction. How about like and subscribe? We thank them for their time and kept the message. If you're done rounding off the edges, Witness Wednesday here at Wretched Radio. We'll help you share the real Gospel, a holy God, real sin, a just wrath, a crucified and risen Savior, and a clear call to repent and believe. And we'll do it kindly, clearly and without the sales pitch. It's Witness Wednesday on Wretched Radio. You can listen to your heart's [e-mail] Should Christians drink? What about tattoos? Is it okay to send your kids to public school? Or does homeschool make you holier and don't even get started on worship style? That's ended more friendships than Monopoly. Here's the thing. Christians love to argue about stuff the Bible doesn't actually command or forbid. And when we do, we fracture over things that shouldn't divide us. That's where Christian Liberty comes in.

[Narrator / Announcer]

It's a teaching series with Todd Friel,

[Promotional Voice / Announcer]

Phil Johnson and Ty Blackburn all walking you through one of the most neglected and most misused doctrines in all of scripture. And when you actually understand Christian Liberty, you stop majoring on minors. You learn to disagree without dividing. You grow in wisdom and maturity and have genuine love for other believers who see things a little bit differently than you do. Christian Liberty is streaming right now for free on Fortis. Just download the app where you download apps on your smartphone, your smart TV, or just simply go to fortisplus.org.

[Todd Friel]

Important dates in Christian history. 1830. Charles Finney's Urban revivals begin and introduce techniques that decisively affect later mass evangelism in America. Finney's innovations included the anxious bench, a forerunner to alter calls, and the use of emotional manipulation to elicit a decision for Christ. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Narrator / Producer]

No wonder why the kids are depressed. This is Wretched Radio. Going to conclude my conversation with Julia, the Roman Catholic nihilist who couldn't tell me beating a small child to death with a club is always wrong at all times in all places. Why? Because academia, postmodernism, has told her there is no valid truth. And yet there's something deep inside of her that says, oh, yes, there is. No wonder why the kids are so confused, lost and depressed. How do you cut through that fog? You use the power of the equipment. Equipment that God has provided for you. The sword of the word. Leave the realm of academia and head to the hills, into the realm of the conscience.

[Interviewer / Host]

I want to go back to your Roman Catholicism. Humor me for a moment. Let's just say you're standing before God. You are a guilty criminal, and he's about to slam the gavel and sentence you eternally to heaven or to hell. As a Roman Catholic, what you learned. I know you don't believe it, but what you learned, what would you use to get out of it?

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

I mean, confession, like admitting to your sins, asking for forgiveness, and then the word for penance.

[Interviewer / Host]

You have to do stuff. Yeah. Let's say it's. It's too late. It's sentencing day.

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

Then, oops, you're going to hell.

[Interviewer / Host]

So is there. I want to give you time on this. Is there anything from your Roman Catholic background that would cause you to go, Wait a second. It doesn't have to be that way.

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

Not that I recall.

[Interviewer / Host]

It's fair enough. Okay, let me try this. You brought up some things that you might say is a criminal. Could get you up. Judge, I've done some good things. A judge goes, well, I'm glad you did, but it has nothing to do with your guilt. You could say, judge, I'm sorry, and he's going to say, you should be sorry, but that doesn't get you off the hook. So if we can't do those things with an earthly judge, it doesn't seem we can do it with the heavenly judge.

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

But with an earthly judge, some people just get probation, some have community service. That is still a form of penance.

[Interviewer / Host]

Sure. I understand there's varying crimes and situations, but let's say somebody who's broken law after law after law. The judge goes, that's it. You're getting sentenced, you're guilty, you must pay the fine, and off you go. Wouldn't that be the case with God? Unless there's something you remember from the Roman Catholic Church or the Bible that would provide a provision for you.

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

Anything, one could say, not committing it in the first place.

[Interviewer / Host]

Sure. Being innocent, being perfect. But we've already concluded that's not the case, is it?

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

No, it's not.

[Interviewer / Host]

All right, so here's what I think. The Bible says. The bad news is you and I should go to hell. We should. That's what God should do. If he's just, look, I've lied more than you have stolen. God has a laundry because he even gets into the brain. He says, lust is like adultery. The heart, you're mad at somebody, it's like murdering somebody inside. Not killing them, but inside. And he's going to open up the books. He should condemn us all. And I'm going to see if you can finish this thought. But God has provided a way for your fine to be paid so that justice can be satisfied and you can be set free as a forgiven criminal. What has God done for you to save you from judgment?

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

Made you pay money like they used to do in the old times of church?

[Interviewer / Host]

No, no.

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

I mean, I'm going back to the, like, 15th, 16th century, where before Martin.

[Interviewer / Host]

Martin Luther.

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

Yeah, Martin Luther. Where they. I can't recall the correct term for.

[Interviewer / Host]

Indulgences.

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

Yes, indulgences. Where they paid and.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah, no, no, that's not it. Now, God's not going to be bribed, but he has provided a way for you to be forgiven. Okay, when we look at the laws. You caught onto that real quick. You just picked up on that? Okay, the Ten Commandments. That's the bad news. The standard to get into heaven is perfection. We break the laws. And even if you only broke one, which you don't, it's like think of a plate of glass, and if there were 10 numbers painted on the glass, you throw the rock through the number five, the whole thing shatters. Because you just now. You're a lawbreaker. All right? We're lawbreakers. We deserve God's wrath. But he's rich in mercy. And he's provided a way for your fine to be paid, but not by simply letting you go, because that would make him unjust. Instead, you remember the Trinity. What is the Trinity?

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

Are you talking about like the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit?

[Interviewer / Host]

Exactly. All right. Three persons, one God, the Son, Jesus Christ.

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

Are you talking about. I'm assuming you're maybe trying to go to original sin. And are you trying to go to the point of Jesus dying on the cross to forgive people of their original

[Interviewer / Host]

sins, all of their sins?

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

I mean, it's hard. I had a point earlier in my head that I forgot.

[Interviewer / Host]

But that's the good news. See, here's the issue. If God just says, oh, criminals, go ahead, be set free, he's unjust. And that's not what God's character is. So his. His payment is Jesus took the punishment you deserve so that your sins, all of them, can be forgiven, you can be set free, you can be made just. And God is justified in doing that because Jesus satisfied justice. That's the gospel. What I presented to you, Julia, is either true or false. It's not a preference thing. I would love it if you would say to me, sir, you are wrong or you're right, but don't say it's just a preference. Because either Jesus lived, died, and rose from the grave to forgive sinners, or he didn't.

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

Well, what about Judaism, where they believe he's just a disciple or another prophet? I think, if anything, that is the most logical way to go about believing in Jesus.

[Interviewer / Host]

But Jesus didn't consider himself just a prophet, so he would differ with those Jewish people. And he battled them all the time to make it clear he was actually God.

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

How do we know that? We're going through books that were written years ago. And they could have been false. They could have been folktales. They could have been through the translations of them. Translations. They could have been misinterpreted.

[Interviewer / Host]

Let me share with you a field of study you might not be familiar with. It's called textual criticism. People take a look in archaeology, they take a look at manuscripts. Whether it was Julius Caesar, whether it was the Bible, it doesn't make any difference. And they've got standards and criteria for determining how accurate these books are. Now, just give me this for a second, and then I'll give you something. The Bible that we have in our hand is exactly the book that was written 2,000 years ago. That's just. It's undeniable. But that doesn't mean it's true. Right? It's accurate. But the question is, is it true? So here's a thought for you to ponder. Five hundred people claimed they saw Jesus Christ Raised from the dead. And those people were killed for that belief, and they never recanted. If somebody was pulling a scam, you're going to get somebody to go, okay, look, somebody just told me they made it up. And. No, don't kill me. Don't kill me. They were all willing to die because they saw the resurrected Savior. Your proof is found in the Bible with all of the miracles, all of the prophecies, and the resurrection of Jesus Christ. All right, You've been patient, so I want to try to plant a seed because, look, you're a nice young lady, and I know you're trying to figure it out. You're right. Your worldview, it is. It is bleak. The worldview that I'm describing for you, it is hopeful, but not because it just makes you feel good, but because it's true. So I can't twist your arm. I can't club you with my microphone, because that would be wrong, right?

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

To say.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yes, it would. It would be wrong. But would you at least think about this?

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

Yes, I will. I mean, this is a conversation I'm very familiar with, that I've had before before with friends, so it's not anything new. We discuss it and think about it. And like I said, I have a religious family, so I know how to think from both sides. And that's. It's dialectic. It's two truths. Like, again, we'll never know which one is the correct truth.

[Interviewer / Host]

My encouragement is two truths that are diametrically opposed can't both be true.

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

Then what do you have to say about DBT therapy? And those. The studies and, like a Socratic discussion is dialectic. It's two truths. It's like having your emotional and rational. That is all what DBT therapy is. It's dialectical behavior therapy. So I think two truths can exist

[Interviewer / Host]

together, the studies on DBT aside. All right, if I believe this is a car in my hand and you believe it's a microphone. Look, one of us is right or both of us are wrong, but we can't both be right. Fair enough.

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

Fair enough in that sense. But that is, again, something you can induce. It's complicated, okay?

[Interviewer / Host]

But I've appealed your conscience. I've appealed a little bit to your intellect and to reason and logic. I think that you know God exists because the Bible says that knowledge is just built into you and eternity is written in our hearts. We know there's more to life than this. So I'm just trying to stir that up inside of you, cause you to think about it. And maybe, just maybe, if your conscience troubles you and you think, if I had to face God, he must be awfully big because this is a big, big universe and I'm going to be in big trouble. But Jesus was willing to die for me. No greater act of love has ever been shown to anybody. And he's willing to forgive you and save you and adopt you and have you inherit eternal life. It is the greatest offer ever. So if you ever get to that point, that's the gospel of Jesus Christ. And it's available to you till you take your last breath. But if you wait, there's no purgatory. You'll face God, and He is the one with whom you must do so. I'd encourage you do business with him now rather than waiting until it's too late. Fair enough.

[Julia (Roman Catholic Nihilist)]

Fair enough. But I do not. I. I probably will not follow that.

[Interviewer / Host]

All I can do is share it with you. You have been very kind.

[Narrator / Producer]

And she has been the perfect example of the confusion that is produced from the postmodern syncretistic worldview.

[Interviewer / Host]

Pray for Julia.

[Narrator / Producer]

And until tomorrow, go serve your kids.