Witness Wednesday: Hell, Justice, and Your Final Verdict

Summary

Podcast Summary: Wretched Radio with Todd Friel

Episode: Witness Wednesday: Hell, Justice, and Your Final Verdict

Date: March 25, 2026
Host: Todd Friel
Key Contributors: Phil Johnson, Mike Riccardi
Context: Live "street evangelism" style conversations with university students about faith, evidence, moral law, heaven, hell, and the unique claims of Christianity.

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on “Witness Wednesday,” where Todd Friel and his team engage students on college campuses in candid, sometimes challenging conversations about Christianity, other religions, atheism, sin, judgment, and the gospel. The episode features deeply personal dialogues with two students (Rhys and Tyler), using their questions and doubts as a springboard to explore core Christian doctrines about sin, justice, hell, and redemption in Christ.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Openness of Evangelism Encounters

• Phil Johnson observes (00:34) how often opportunities to share faith present themselves without the need for awkward segues, as with Rhys, a student already studying religion.

2. Interview with Rhys (Student): Wrestling with Faith, Atheism, and Evidence

Faith, Atheism, and Agnosticism

• Rhys identifies as an atheist, but Mike Riccardi logically leads him to agnosticism, noting that to confidently claim “there is no God,” one would need all-encompassing knowledge:

  "Do you have all knowledge of everything?... Therefore there's a chance that God could exist."
  —Mike Riccardi, (04:26-04:30)

• Rhys agrees and concedes:

  “I just don’t know.” (04:32)

The Search for Evidence

• Rhys wants “solid evidence” for God, even suggesting a miracle could sway him (05:44-05:55).
• Mike responds that biological wonders (like the eye) and the complexity of the universe constitute such miracles—a “microphone means a microphone-maker, a universe means a universe-maker” (06:12-07:43).

The Moral Law and Conscience

• Moving from intellect to conscience, Mike explores the Ten Commandments with Rhys:
  • Rhys admits breaking commandments: stealing (thief), coveting (coveter), idolatry, anger (“murder in your heart”), and potentially lust (adultery) (08:48-10:42).
• The exercise reveals both their need for forgiveness.

The Consequence of Sin and the Offer of the Gospel

• Mike challenges Rhys: What should a just God do with lawbreakers?

  “He should punish them.” —Rhys (16:38)

• The biblical place of punishment is “hell.” Rhys somberly admits (16:58) he’d be “sent…straight to hell.”

• Mike then explains the Christian view of the Messiah, Jesus, as the ultimate sacrifice who takes the deserved wrath for sinners (“the gospel of Christianity,” 17:00-18:30).

The Heart of Rejection: Pursuing Happiness Over Truth

• Rhys articulates why he’s uninterested in repenting:

  “I want to live my life... I like happiness more than I like Jesus.” (22:57) “My love for life and the life that I live is stronger than any regret that I’ll ever have.” (21:51)

  • Mike identifies that Rhys chooses partying and pursuit of happiness “over the God who died for you” (22:52).
• Mike’s summary: Rhys “wants to be the God of [his] life” (23:56).
• Rhys responds:

  “I will take that to heart.” (24:49)

Host Reflection

• Phil Johnson remarks on the poignancy of witnessing someone flatly prefer “partying” over faith, but encourages listeners that ultimate conversion is God’s work—our job is faithful gospel witness (24:58).

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3. Interview with Tyler (Student): Easter, Evidence, and Truth

Setting: Street Interview at Georgia State

• Tyler, a political science/philosophy major, is asked to explain the meaning of Easter. He is unsure, recognizing only “bunnies and eggs,” not its Christian roots (30:34-31:29).

The Easter Narrative: Law, Sin, and Substitution

• Mike Riccardi explains that Easter marks Jesus’ resurrection after dying for humanity’s sins, allowing God to be both just and forgiving (31:34-34:51).

• Tyler suggests, in a memorable moment:

  “Shouldn’t it be celebrated with blood?”
  —Tyler (34:51)

  • Mike jokes with Tyler (“You’re kind of smart and it’s annoying me”) and agrees that the cultural imagery misses the story’s “gruesome” center (35:01-35:15).

Is the Resurrection True? Eyewitness Evidence

• Tyler adopts a skeptical philosophical stance, questioning whether the narrative is “true or false.” He resists rendering a verdict, insisting the assessment “depends on your perspective” (36:30-37:16).

• Mike presses Tyler to consider the resurrection with the same standards as historical events. Tyler accepts “empirical fact” for JFK’s assassination because of primary accounts (37:47-38:01).

• Mike offers that the New Testament contains first-century eyewitness accounts (disciples willing to die for their testimony—39:22-39:58), meeting Tyler’s stated standard for evidence.

The Reliability of Ancient Documents

• Mike points out the New Testament’s textual authenticity far exceeds other ancient works (like Caesar’s Gallic Wars), yet Tyler hesitates to accept it due to the nature of religious texts (47:26-49:46).

Application of the Moral Law

• In a parallel to Rhys’ questioning, Mike moves to the conscience:
  • Lying (“Would you call me a liar?”), stealing, and lust (adultery).
  • Tyler qualifies, suggesting that telling lies doesn’t always make someone “a liar,” but agrees he’s guilty of such acts (50:28-51:40).

The Final Verdict: Judgment and Hell

• Mike sums up: If judged by God, Tyler would be found “guilty” and “sent to hell…no parole date…forever” (53:10-53:28).
  • Tyler: “Vindictive man.” (53:28)
  • Mike: “It depends on who the judge is and against whom we’ve committed the crime…our crimes…are committed against your sovereign. It’s rebellion against the King…that’s why it demands an eternal punishment.” (53:33-53:53)

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4. Apologetics vs. Conscience: The Limitations of Intellectual Debate

• Phil Johnson reflects, “If you run into your own ‘yeah, but’, and there are many of them, you might want to get out of the realm of the intellect to the land of the conscience…Apologetics never caused anybody to drop to their knees. It is the gospel that will do that work alone.” (53:53)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (With Timestamps)

• “Do you have all knowledge of everything?... Therefore there’s a chance that God could exist.”
  —Mike Riccardi to Rhys, (04:26-04:30)

• “Congratulations, you’re an agnostic.”
  —Mike Riccardi (04:33)

• “So you like partying more than Jesus?”
  —Mike Riccardi (22:53)
  —Rhys: “I like happiness more than I like Jesus.” (22:57)

• “I think the universe is a very, very good argument, but the Big Bang is also a great argument.”
  —Rhys (07:43)

• “If you died, God is your judge…the books are open…what would he do with you?”
  —Rhys: “Send me straight to hell.” (16:43–16:58)

• “He loved you and died for you anyway…Now, why would you reject that kind offer that he is willing to forgive you?”
  —Mike Riccardi (18:30, 19:20)

• “I want to live my life…His rules are one thing, but…”
  —Rhys (22:26)

• “What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his very soul?”
  —Mike Riccardi quoting Jesus (21:02)

• “Shouldn’t [Easter] be celebrated with blood?”
  —Tyler (34:51)

• “May I suggest to you it doesn’t matter what I think about it. It either is or is not true.”
  —Mike Riccardi (36:35)

• “So let me just try to tackle that for you—There were 500 eyewitnesses to [Jesus’] resurrection…”
  —Mike Riccardi (38:28)

• “But you could say the same thing about a lot of people…terrorists…believe in their cause so much…That doesn’t mean that it’s true.”
  —Tyler (45:22)

• “Once I found the truth, I don’t need to examine every single religion. I’m done with my search.”
  —Mike Riccardi (49:57)

• “How many lies have you told in your life?” / “Countless.” … “If you knew I told countless lies, what name would you call me?” / “A human.” “Rhymes with pants on fire.” / “A liar.”
  —Mike Riccardi and Tyler (50:27-50:38)

• “Would God render an innocent or guilty verdict on Tyler?” [long pause] “Guilty.”
  —Mike Riccardi & Tyler (53:06-53:12)

• “Apologetics never caused anybody to drop to their knees. It is the gospel that will do that work alone.”
  —Phil Johnson (53:53)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:34 – Introduction to campus witnessing and overcoming evangelism fears.
• 01:21–12:30 – First segment with Rhys: exploring atheism vs. agnosticism, faith, conscience, and the commandments.
• 14:33–24:58 – Rhys wrestles with the concepts of justice, hell, and the gospel.
• 30:34–39:58 – Tyler attempts to define Easter, hears the gospel, and debates evidence and truth.
• 43:59–53:53 – Tyler discusses textual criticism; the dialogue shifts from intellect to conscience.
• 53:54–end – Final reflections on evangelism: Intellectual debate vs. addressing conscience and the work of the gospel.

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Tone & Style

The tone throughout is candid, direct, friendly, and sometimes humorously self-aware (“You’re kind of smart and it’s kind of annoying me right now.”). The hosts strive for clarity and gentleness in presenting their views and in challenging their conversation partners, inviting honest self-reflection and open dialogue about difficult topics.

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Conclusion

This episode of Wretched Radio presents a real-time look at campus evangelism, showcasing respectful but probing discussions with skeptical students. The conversation navigates classic tensions between intellect and faith, evidence and experience, happiness and holiness, and ultimately, the universal need for redemption in the Christian worldview. The show models a balance of apologetics and gospel proclamation, reminding listeners that conversion is ultimately God’s work, and the Christian’s role is simply to be faithful and clear in sharing the message.

Transcript

[Todd Friel]

Wretched radio begins in 3, 2, 1.

[Phil Johnson]

God gave me a Ferrari because I am a Ferrari.

[Fortis Announcer]

You're a Ferrari, too.

[Mike Riccardi]

When God made you, he had all the options put on.

[Phil Johnson]

You are fully loaded and totally equipped.

[Mike Riccardi]

So do this with me. Where did we ever come up with the style of preaching we have today?

[Rhys (Student)]

There is some entertaining preaching, but not convicting preaching.

[Mike Riccardi]

And the legacy has been tragic.

[Todd Friel]

It's time for Wretched Radio with Tod Friel.

[Phil Johnson]

Sometimes the door just opens itself. This is Wretched Radio on a Witness Wednesday. University of Georgia. Wandering the campus looking for somebody to witness to. Just hoping that a door would open up for me. And indeed it did. And indeed it does. So often we're afraid to share our faith because we think, huh, I'm gonna have to work so hard to segue the conversation from the realm of the physical into the realm of the spiritual. What will I. What question will I ask? Sometimes it's good to be prepared for that. Other times you meet a fellow named Reese and the door is already open.

[Mike Riccardi]

We're going to talk to this fellow

[Phil Johnson]

who I have not met yet.

[Mike Riccardi]

Is that correct, young man? I have not met you. Correct.

[Rhys (Student)]

I'm Reese.

[Mike Riccardi]

Reese, nice to meet you. Hold on, let me take my little microphone here. Reese, what are you studying here at UGA right now?

[Rhys (Student)]

I'm studying for a religion test. I have right now in like an hour.

[Phil Johnson]

Really?

[Rhys (Student)]

Yeah.

[Mike Riccardi]

Why are you studying religion?

[Rhys (Student)]

Because I'm required by my major.

[Mike Riccardi]

You have to.

[Rhys (Student)]

I have to.

[Mike Riccardi]

Do you want to?

[Rhys (Student)]

I don't mind it.

[Mike Riccardi]

All right, now I'm fascinated. So you're taking religion and is it all religions that you're studying right now?

[Rhys (Student)]

It's Islam, Christianity, and I think Muslim.

[Mike Riccardi]

It's the same as Islam. A Muslim Buddhism?

[Rhys (Student)]

No.

[Mike Riccardi]

Hinduism, Mormonism, Shintoism. Oprah Winfrey. The religion of Oprah Winfrey.

[Tyler (Student)]

Okay.

[Rhys (Student)]

No, it was.

[Mike Riccardi]

Do you think all religions are the same?

[Rhys (Student)]

Maybe.

[Mike Riccardi]

All right, if I told you Islam says you've got to keep five pillars of the faith and then maybe, just maybe, when you die, Allah might be pleased. You will potentially go to heaven if you've done those things perfectly and you will inherit 72 virgins. That's basically a summary of Islam and the afterlife. Fair enough.

[Rhys (Student)]

Fair.

[Mike Riccardi]

Christianity says all the things that you do to try to earn your way to heaven are actually self righteous. They're sinful because we have a corrupt, sinful nature. Everything we do is sinful and wrong and God must judge us. And there's no way we can earn our way to heaven. But if we repent and put our trust in his son, Jesus Christ, then it will be a gift given to us based on the works of Jesus and not on our works, because all of our works are like filthy rags. Little summary of Christianity. Do you think those two religions are the same?

[Rhys (Student)]

Different in detail, but it's basically the same how you're going to somewhere, you're going to heaven.

[Mike Riccardi]

Okay, okay. But that would be like me saying, okay, you're wearing a shirt, I'm wearing a shirt, therefore we're the same.

[Rhys (Student)]

That's true.

[Mike Riccardi]

Okay, so basically one says, you got to work there, maybe the other one says it's a free gift of God because of Jesus Christ by grace alone.

[Rhys (Student)]

Okay, they're different.

[Mike Riccardi]

Do you think they're both valid?

[Rhys (Student)]

I'm an atheist, so I think they're valid ideas, but I don't think that they're.

[Mike Riccardi]

Do you think they're wrong?

[Rhys (Student)]

Yes.

[Mike Riccardi]

Good on you. Well, you do. I appreciate that. Okay, so you think they're wrong. All right, so you're an atheist, you believe there's nothing, no God, period.

[Rhys (Student)]

I believe there's no God.

[Mike Riccardi]

I'm going to try to convert you to being an agnostic.

[Rhys (Student)]

Okay. And I know what that means.

[Mike Riccardi]

An agnostic means you just don't know for sure. All right. Atheist basically a negates the word theism, which is God. So there's no God. That's your position. Definitively, there's no God. But to maintain that position, you have to have all knowledge of everything that is happening, has happened. What's going on in Mars, what's going on in Nebraska, which really pretty much the same landscape. You have to know everything about everything to definitively state there is no God. Do you have all knowledge of everything?

[Rhys (Student)]

No.

[Mike Riccardi]

Therefore there's a chance that God could exist.

[Rhys (Student)]

Yes.

[Mike Riccardi]

You just don't know.

[Rhys (Student)]

I just don't know.

[Mike Riccardi]

Congratulations, you're an agnostic.

[Rhys (Student)]

All right, I'm an agnostic.

[Mike Riccardi]

Dude, you backslid right here on this bench. All right. Did you grow up in a Christian home?

[Rhys (Student)]

I grew up in a Catholic home and actually did call myself an agnostic a couple years back and switched it over to atheism just because I didn't want to believe in any kind of God.

[Mike Riccardi]

How come, dude?

[Rhys (Student)]

Um, I don't know. I. I think I'm a logical minded person and I like to have proof for what I think. So I guess I'm just saying against what atheist is. And now that I'm just saying that I'm agnostic because I don't have proof that there isn't a God. So I can't say that I'm an atheist. So I'm just contradicting myself, but that's okay.

[Mike Riccardi]

But you, you wanted to demonstrate that God doesn't exist. Why don't you like the idea of God?

[Rhys (Student)]

I think it gives false hope. I think that when you die, you probably not gonna be in the ground. You're dirt.

[Mike Riccardi]

So you want some evidence to prove that God exists?

[Rhys (Student)]

Yes.

[Mike Riccardi]

How much do you need?

[Rhys (Student)]

Probably some pretty solid evidence.

[Mike Riccardi]

All right, if I could give you a ton of evidence, do you think you'd be convinced that God exists? A miracle.

[Rhys (Student)]

A miracle. Maybe a miracle.

[Mike Riccardi]

I got a miracle for you. You're looking through them right now. Your eyes. Over 100 million light sensitive cells right behind your eyeball, all working in coordination so that you can see. Take in this information and process it in your brain so you know what's going on. That wasn't luck. That's a miracle. You're made by God.

[Rhys (Student)]

Or I was made by evolution. And I mean just the same way that animals evolved.

[Mike Riccardi]

And I understand, but consider the symmetry of your eyes. Yeah, I understand, but how does a rock, or how does somebody who doesn't even understand the refraction of light know that there's light out there? Somehow to determine that I can comprehend what's in front of me. I don't even know what the concept of sight is if I don't see anything. Okay, you don't even see darkness when you're blind. You don't see anything. You just. There's nothing. So how would this bench know that there's something out there to be seen and then go about the business of evolving eyes?

[Rhys (Student)]

Are you saying a bench can evolve?

[Mike Riccardi]

Well, ultimately, you evolved supposedly from a rock because you came from something that didn't have life into life. So somehow you jumped from being a rock to being a human being. Okay, so somehow we came up with the idea that there's stuff out there to be seen. I can process it. I don't think that could all happen by luck and chance. I think that it takes so much design, so much complexity. Somebody had to design it and put you together. And so that I think, is your miracle. But I think there's even more. I think you had a whole universe. This whole thing is so complex and so marvelously made. You have to just look at it and go, you know, there's a microphone maker. I've never met the guy. I've never been to the factory. But there must be A microphone maker, because there's a microphone. There must be a universe maker, because there's a universe. I think the universe screams to you God exists. How's that for proof?

[Rhys (Student)]

I think the universe very, very good argument, but the Big Bang is also a great argument. And how everything can come. You guys in Christianity.

[Mike Riccardi]

How did you know I was a crit? Now, why didn't you think I was a Muslim or a Buddhist? I just guessed.

[Phil Johnson]

All right, hold it.

[Mike Riccardi]

I'll tell you what. I'm going to try to right now circumvent your intellect, and I'm going to go to a different part of your brain instead of your intellect. I want to go to your conscience. It's that area in your brain that goes, this is wrong, this is right, this is good, this is bad. And I want to try to poke at it a little bit, okay? And see if we can stir you in your conscience. Now, I was looking at this. This is the books of the New Testament, and it describes Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Now, you said also that you like Judaism. You were studying Judaism as one of your world religions, correct? In the Old Testament, which is the Torah for the Jewish people. The laws of Moses. Do you know what those are? I can remember Ten Commandments.

[Rhys (Student)]

Okay.

[Mike Riccardi]

Do you know the Ten Commandments?

[Rhys (Student)]

I do.

[Mike Riccardi]

All right, give me a couple.

[Rhys (Student)]

Thou shalt not steal.

[Mike Riccardi]

Stop right there. Have you ever broken that commandment?

[Rhys (Student)]

Yes.

[Mike Riccardi]

You've stolen something. If you knew that I stole something, what name would you give to me? What would you label me?

[Rhys (Student)]

A thief?

[Mike Riccardi]

Give me another commandment.

[Rhys (Student)]

Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's wife.

[Mike Riccardi]

Stop right there. You ever done that? Ever Covet? Desired? Anything that didn't forget the neighbor's wife? Anything that didn't belong to you?

[Rhys (Student)]

Of course.

[Mike Riccardi]

So you're a coveter also. Give me another commandment.

[Rhys (Student)]

Thou shalt not idolatrize. Isn't it?

[Mike Riccardi]

That's right. Yeah. To make a graven image. Because God wants your affections to be for him, the one who made you and gave you life. Have you committed idolatry?

[Rhys (Student)]

Well, growing up as a Catholic, I feel like I have.

[Mike Riccardi]

But has God always been the primary affection in your life where you've been living for him, honoring him with everything you do?

[Rhys (Student)]

No.

[Mike Riccardi]

Okay, give me another commandment.

[Rhys (Student)]

Thou shall not murder.

[Mike Riccardi]

Have you ever done that?

[Rhys (Student)]

No.

[Mike Riccardi]

Let me tell you what Jesus said. He said that if you just call somebody an idiot, a moron, you're just mad at somebody. You're in danger of the judgment, because that makes you a Murderer at heart, you don't commit the act. But that anger God sees very similar to murder at the heart. Now, it's not as gross a sin, clearly, but it's still a violation of God's law and his perfect standard. Have you ever murdered somebody in your heart?

[Rhys (Student)]

I don't think I could in my heart.

[Mike Riccardi]

Do you drive a car?

[Rhys (Student)]

I do.

[Mike Riccardi]

Ever been mad at somebody down the road?

[Rhys (Student)]

I have.

[Mike Riccardi]

So have you committed murder in your heart?

[Rhys (Student)]

I think that's a stretch.

[Mike Riccardi]

All right, let me try another one. All right. Jesus said if you look with lust, you've committed adultery in your heart. No, you look like a normal guy. So I'm just going to trust that maybe you've violated that commandment. But it's none of my business.

[Phil Johnson]

God, take a little time out. Did you hear how easy that was? You ask somebody something even totally unrelated to the gospel, and it simply presents itself as an opportunity to witness to somebody. Don't let your segue scare you. Often, and I do mean often, I didn't consult George Barna, so I don't know the exact statistic. Not sure he always does either. But the point is, sometimes just talking to somebody will lend itself to a conversation about the gospel. And you just heard a perfect example of that. We are going to return to our conversation with Rhys. Be prepared. It's an absolute heartbreaker. Next on Wretched Radio.

[Fortis Announcer]

You know those really big questions you get when your kid comes home from college? You know, the ones about whether God exists, if the Bible can be trusted, why there's evil in the world, or what's wrong with everyone else's view on sexuality? Yeah, those. Road Trip to Truth doesn't dodge them. This resource is hosted by John Ferbarez and it goes straight to college campuses and talks to students who are asking these very same questions. But it doesn't just stop there. No, no. Then there are the experts that give the real answers with topics like science and faith, pornography, social media and mental health, critical race theory, marriage, eternity. And that's not even the half of it. If you have teenagers, this is the stuff they need to hear before the world gives them its version. And if you don't have teenagers, you'll still learn something. Road Trip to Truth, all four seasons available right now on Fortis for free. Download it now. Where you download apps on your smartphone, your smart TV, or just simply go to fortisplus.org.

[Phil Johnson]

is it possible a Christian university can actually be ranked high when it comes to. To preparing students for the real world? The hat Tip to Masters University. You want to send your kids someplace where they actually still teach the Bible,

[Mike Riccardi]

not just based on a document that

[Phil Johnson]

they may be having a file cabinet someplace, but they actually use the Bible there. The education at the Master's University, not only biblical, but oh, so practical courses, diplomas, degrees, they can be achieved online or, of course, on their beautiful campus in Southern California. Would you like to learn more about the Master's University? To prepare you or your child for the future, I encourage you to visit masters. Edu Wretched Masters. Edu Wretched.

[Fortis Announcer]

So we decided to run the gospel through a Focus groove, and they loved the part about love. Then came the notes. Sin sounds a little bit harsh. So they suggested we call it personal brokenness. Hell, that's a big negative. Maybe spiritual separation, saying Jesus is the only way. That's just intolerant. You have to make him one of many meaningful paths. And the call to repent and believe just raises a little bit of friction. How about like and subscribe? We thanked them for their time and kept the message. If you're done rounding off the edges, Witness Wednesday here at Wretched Radio. We'll help you share the real gospel, a holy God, real sin, a just wrath, a crucified and risen Savior, and a clear call to repent and believe. And we'll do it kindly, clearly, and without the sales pitch. It's Witness Wednesday on Wretched Radio. You can listen to your heart's [e-mail].

[Todd Friel]

Books of the Bible. The book of Ruth tells of a Moabite widow who chose to follow the God of Israel and found favor in the eyes of a godly man named Boaz, who claimed her family's land as her kinsman Redeemer. Ruth and Boaz are the ancestors of Jesus and a foreshadowing of Jesus work as our kinsman Redeemer. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Mike Riccardi]

It's a Heartache.

[Phil Johnson]

That was actually a recording of the original demo. This is Wretched Radio. Prepare yourself for a heartache. A young man at the University of Georgia sitting on a bench. I walked up to him, hoping to have a religious conversation. Lo and behold, he's actually studying religion. Well, how easy is that segue? You didn't have to segue from anything. You were already there. And that happens a lot in conversations. If you will just listen for your cue, let us continue. My engagement with Rhys. He was studying religion, all of them. I was trying to share with him the unique nature of Christianity. We had walked through the law. We have not gotten to the sweet news of the Gospel yet. And then I am going to try to encourage Rhys to choose this day. Will you be on an AC DC highway, or will you get on the road to life? Prepare yourself. It's a heartache.

[Mike Riccardi]

All right, so we just did a little summary of the commandments. Now, sometimes people think you keep the commandments and then God will accept you when you get to heaven. But here's what we've learned about you and me. We've broken those commandments. So what do you think a just and holy God should do with people who have broken his laws?

[Rhys (Student)]

Well, obviously we have a forgiving God.

[Mike Riccardi]

Hold on. What should a righteous, holy God do? A judge who's going to judge the whole world in righteousness? What should he do with lawbreakers like you and me?

[Rhys (Student)]

He should punish them.

[Mike Riccardi]

What is the place of punishment according to the Bible?

[Rhys (Student)]

Hell.

[Mike Riccardi]

So, Rhys, if you died, God is your judge. The books are open. He knows your thoughts, deeds, everything done in darkness. Your whole life displayed before him. Nothing hidden. He'd find you guilty. What do you think God would do with you?

[Rhys (Student)]

Send me straight to hell.

[Mike Riccardi]

That's depressing.

[Rhys (Student)]

It is if you believe in hell.

[Mike Riccardi]

Well, it doesn't matter if you believe in it if it's true, whether you believe in it or not. It's a depressing thought because you'd be going, whether you believe in it or not. Right. Because my belief or lack thereof doesn't change reality. Now, in the Old Testament, there was a lot of talk about a Messiah to come. The New Testament reveals that Messiah as Jesus Christ. That's right. If you remember, in the Old Testament, there were a lot of lamb sacrifices. You had the Passover, you had the Day of Atonement. And they would kill a lamb for the covering of sins. And it was a fuzzy picture of something better to come. It was all pointing towards something else. There was a guy named John the Baptist who walked the earth at the time of Jesus. And he pointed to Jesus and he said, behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. All those fuzzy pictures in the Old Testament of lamb sacrifices were pointing toward the one, the perfect Lamb, who was going to die. That's right. Jesus on the cross for the forgiveness of sins. So the Messiah came to save you from the wrath that you will face if you die in your sins. That's the gospel of Christianity, that you can't do anything to earn your way to heaven. You've earned hell for yourself. But Jesus, because of his perfect life, and his perfect righteousness, taking the wrath of the Father on your behalf. The punishment you deserve, he took for you, even though he knew you were going to look with lust, that you would be a coveter, that you'd be an idolater.

[Phil Johnson]

He would.

[Mike Riccardi]

He loved you and died for you anyway. Rose from the dead, ascended into heaven, and now this day, he commands you to repent and put your trust in Him. And he says if you will do that, he will completely forgive your sins and he will inherit you and adopt you as his child. That's the good news of the gospel. Now, if it's true that God himself came to rescue you, to save you, so that you could be forgiven, adopted as a child. That's true. Here's my question for you. God dying for you, even though you've sinned against him, can you think of an act that anybody has ever done for you that has demonstrated a greater love than that?

[Rhys (Student)]

No. Maybe. Maybe just my mother's love.

[Mike Riccardi]

But imagine somebody that you've offended, that you've willfully rebelled against, kind of shaken your fist at and said, don't care, don't care. I'm gonna live it my way, and I'm gonna put my affections toward other things died for you anyway. Now, why would you reject that kind offer that he is willing to forgive you?

[Rhys (Student)]

There's not many logical reasons why you would, but. Maybe you don't believe in all of his rules. I know there's a lot of sins that are pretty daily and normal life. And it's not that I'm rejecting his acceptance, but I'm living my life.

[Mike Riccardi]

You prefer living by your set of rules rather than God's set of rules.

[Rhys (Student)]

Yeah.

[Mike Riccardi]

Okay. See if this does anything for you. Okay. Sometimes people's perception of Christianity is that it's about keeping rules, all right? And God is kind of a, you know, authoritarian, and he wants you to live like this, and he just wants to steal all the fun from our lives. Maybe just to position this a little bit differently, if God was willing to die for you, and he is the most amazingly kind, loving being in the universe, wouldn't it really be a joy and a delight to follow him and his rules because we're grateful for Him?

[Rhys (Student)]

Yeah. I mean, obviously if I believed in him, then I would be grateful, but I don't.

[Mike Riccardi]

Here's a question that Jesus asked. What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his very soul? Your soul, the thing that lives on for forever. It's precious. Right. So let's Say you have whatever it is that you want to do, whatever things that you want to participate in that you enjoy today. If at the end of your life, you stand before God, the books are open, and he looks at you and says, you're guilty. You have broken my rules, and you knew it. There was a guy who sat on a bench with you when you were going to University of Georgia, Athens, and he played, pleaded with you to turn from your sins and put your trust in my son. And you rebelled and you wouldn't do it, even though your conscience said, I know I've done wrong, and I know I've got a problem with my court date. You lived your whole life for yourself anyway. Would it have been worth it?

[Rhys (Student)]

I think my love for life and the life that I live is stronger than any regret that I'll ever have. I feel like I have so much passion to live and pursue my own happiness. Not out of selfishness, but out of life short.

[Mike Riccardi]

Let me try to be specific. Are you saying that you want to just live your life any way that you want to, that's your desire, or you just. You don't like the idea of God's rules and just taking all the fun away from you? What exactly are you trying to say here?

[Rhys (Student)]

I think I want to live my life. His. His rules are one thing, but.

[Mike Riccardi]

So let's just pick something. Partying. All right. You don't want to give up partying?

[Rhys (Student)]

No. Love partying.

[Mike Riccardi]

Okay, so could I boil it down this way? You love partying more than the God who died for you?

[Rhys (Student)]

Yes.

[Mike Riccardi]

So you like partying more than Jesus?

[Rhys (Student)]

I like happiness more than I like Jesus.

[Mike Riccardi]

Yeah. You know what?

[Rhys (Student)]

I connect happiness to the things that I do. And I live my life every day in the pursuit of happiness. And that's the one thing that defines my life, is happiness. And if I'm living a miserable life, which I'm not, 100% is going to continue on to an afterlife, why would I want to live such a short life in unhappiness?

[Mike Riccardi]

Well, I was trying to poke at your conscience, remember? Trying to get there so that you go, you know, I do know that I've been doing wrong. I do know that my life has been wrong. I've got a universe that tells me there's a God. My conscience tells me I've sinned against him. So you've got all kinds of intellectual and you've got all kinds of conscience issues going on inside of your brain, but you're suppressing that. That obvious knowledge because you Rhys, basically want to be the God of your life.

[Rhys (Student)]

Yes.

[Mike Riccardi]

Fair enough. All right. I can't force you to do anything. I mean, it looks like you could take me anyway. All right, I can't force you. And that's not what Christianity is about. It's not a turn or burn. That's not the message of Christianity. The message is, yeah, if you don't turn, you will go to hell. But God says, so kind. He died to save you. And we should want to repent and put our trust in him because, wow, who wouldn't want to believe and follow that God? As you go through life, whether it's today or in months or years to come, as you start to realize the vanity of what life is, when you have your next hangover or you wake up with your next heartbreak and you start to realize it's all very temporal and fleeting and your conscience troubles you, think about what I shared with you today, because God's offer stands for you. If you'll repent and put your trust in Jesus, as wicked as you've been, whatever it is that you've done, he will completely forget it and forgive you because he's that good. That's all I can say to you.

[Rhys (Student)]

I will take that to heart.

[Mike Riccardi]

Fair enough. You are a gentleman, really you are. And you're patient. Thanks for not thumping me. All right, man, all right. I hope you do great on your test.

[Phil Johnson]

While I am most certainly grateful, he's going to take it to heart, what a heartbreaker when he flatly states, I'd rather party than have Jesus. Oh, wow. But before we get all depressed about it, there's hope for Rhys. There's hope for anyone who has heard the good news of the gospel. Don't be discouraged when somebody says, not interested. You and I are simply called to be faithful. We are not called to convert. That is God's job, on God's timetable. So just be faithful. Have the to just start a conversation. You never know when it might be set up on a T for you, because it often is. Share the law, share the gospel, call them to repentance and faith. And even if they break your heart on the bench, there is still hope. This is wretched radio.

[Fortis Announcer]

It's now time for your daily Fortis news break, a production of Fortis Institute. Kermit Gosnell, the Philadelphia abortionist convicted of murdering three infants born alive during illegal late term abortions, has died in prison at the age of 85. Gosnell was presently serving three consecutive life sentences for running what a grand jury called a house of horrors, a clinic where babies were delivered alive and killed by severing their spinal cords with scissors. And speaking of the abortion industry taking losses, California's coalition of 22 states just had their lawsuit to restore Planned Parenthood's Medicaid funding tossed out. The American center for Law and justice reports that every legal argument the abortion lobby put forward, every single one of them, was rejected. Seven briefs filed and seven wins, and the states didn't lose on a technicality. They dismissed their own case after the First Circuit granted a stay, allowing the funding cuts from President Trump's big beautiful bill to take effect. Newly obtained records reveal that Biden White House hosted what organizers literally called a speed dating event just weeks before the 2024 election, matching transgender activists with major progressive donors to fund programs that re educate parents who won't affirm their child's gender confusion. The goal was to get these programs federally approved so states could tap Medicaid reimbursement to pay for them. One activist on a Biden HHS webinar even called a parents refusal to affirm a child's gender identity child abuse. The Trump administration has since reversed course entirely, rescinding Biden's rule requiring foster families to affirm gender transitions and notifying all 50 states that affirming biological reality does not constitute abuse or neglect. On the cultural front, a new 13 foot Christopher Columbus statue now stands on the White House floor grounds, crafted from the broken marble of a Baltimore Columbus statue that President Reagan unveiled in 1984 and leftist mobs tore down in 2020. It's all a part of Trump's 250th anniversary celebration, which is taking place now through this summer. Internationally, Costa Rica has ordered its embassy in Cuba closed, with outgoing President Chavez declaring we have to clean out Communists from the hemisphere. Incoming President Lara Fernandez Delgado, a 39 year old Catholic who calls abortion nothing other than murder, backed the move, saying socialism and communism destroy societies. And FBI Director Kash Patel is warning Americans that Russian hackers are running phishing campaigns through the signal messaging app to target high value individuals. So maybe think twice before clicking a link sent by an unknown number and that wraps up the dates for today. News Break I'm Jimmy Hinks. If you want more, you can download Fortis plus or sign up to become a Fortis Insider for exclusive daily content. Both of those things can be done at the present [e-mail] and don't forget, you can subscribe to Fortis News on your favorite podcast app in order to get these updates sent directly to your phone every single day and until tomorrow, go serve your king.

[Todd Friel]

Important dates in Christian history. 385 AD in Milan, Bishop Ambrose defies the Empress. This event helped to establish the precedent of the Church confronting the state when necessary to protect Christian teaching and oppose injustice and corruption in government. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Phil Johnson]

Segways. We got your Segways here. This is Wretched Radio. There are many times in a Witness encounter, God will just set it up on a T for you. You're chit chatting about the sports, whatever the subject du jour, which happens to be the subject of the day, whatever it is, it'll just present itself and all you need to do is go for it and preach the law and the gospel. There are other times where you do have to work at it. You somehow have to figure out, how do I get into a witness conversation? How do I start this chat about Jesus Christ? Hey, can't think of a better way to get there than a national holiday. No, not Christmas and Thanksgiving, although those certainly work. They do, by the way. Just ask somebody at Thanksgiving time.

[Mike Riccardi]

What are you thankful for?

[Phil Johnson]

Who do you thank? Where do those blessings come from?

[Mike Riccardi]

Christmas.

[Phil Johnson]

Do you know the meaning of Christmas? Doesn't matter what time of year. You can use those holidays to get right to the gospel. I would suggest to you no better national holiday to use than Easter. This is a demonstration of that with Tyler.

[Mike Riccardi]

This is Tyler. We are at Georgia State University, and Tyler is going to tell us the meaning of Easter. Go, Tyler.

[Tyler (Student)]

Easter is. It's used to. I don't really care for Easter much, but people like to do Easter egg rolls and go to church.

[Mike Riccardi]

You don't care for Easter? Why not? It's all about bunnies and stuff.

[Tyler (Student)]

Oh, yeah. It doesn't really make sense. I don't understand. Bunnies don't produce eggs. So the Easter egg, the egg part associated with Easter and the bunny as.

[Phil Johnson]

I don't know where it came from, I don't either. But that's.

[Mike Riccardi]

That's not what Easter is. Do you know what the meaning of Easter is?

[Tyler (Student)]

I think it has some sort of religious connotation.

[Mike Riccardi]

Do you know what it is?

[Tyler (Student)]

It's not the birth of Jesus.

[Mike Riccardi]

That's Christmas.

[Tyler (Student)]

I have no idea.

[Phil Johnson]

Really?

[Mike Riccardi]

You've never heard what the meaning of Easter is?

[Tyler (Student)]

No.

[Mike Riccardi]

May I tell you?

[Tyler (Student)]

Sure.

[Mike Riccardi]

All right, so here's the setup, okay? Because Easter is kind of the punchline, if you will. But here's the long setup. God made the universe, his nature is perfect, holy, righteous, good, just. We people aren't. We break his laws, his commandments. We do things we're not supposed to do, and our conscience reminds us what we're doing is wrong. So when we lie or steal or cheat or do things that we'd rather not have our parents know about, God does. And because of his nature, because he's holy, he's going to make sure that everybody who's broken the laws is going to receive their due reward, which is to be punished for their law breaking. Just like a criminal who breaks an earthly law, they get punished by going to jail. God, the just judge of the world, punishes lawbreakers and he sends them to an eternal jail called hell. Exactly. All right. But now God is also good, and he's rich in mercy. And he doesn't want people like you to go to hell. But here's the tension. See if you can feel this with me. God is just. He's got to punish lawbreakers, but he's good, and he likes to save and forgive sinners. But if he just forgives people, then he's not just. It would be like a judge saying, I know you've broken the laws, criminal, but I'm a nice guy, I'll let you go. You would go, wait a second. That's not just. So God, in order to be just and good, had a plan before he created the universe to send his son. Who is Jesus? Exactly. Who is God in the flesh? He was born on Christmas, lived a perfect life. You and I can't. You and I, if we're being honest, we lie.

[Tyler (Student)]

I think I would dispute that he was born on Christmas.

[Mike Riccardi]

Yeah, I wouldn't argue with you on that because we don't know the date, but good on you. You caught me. You're right. We don't know the exact date, but we'll just say the day he was born, he lived the perfect life that you and I can't. He amassed all kinds of righteousness that we don't possess. And then Easter week, it was actually the Passion Week or Passover week. He was punished by men. They stripped him, beat him, scourged him, put a crown of thorns on his head, spat on him, and then hung him on a cross. Here's what we. That's Good Friday. That's three days before Easter. God was pouring out his wrath on Jesus Christ on behalf of sinners who will repent and put their trust in him. So when he died, he said, it is finished because his task was to live the perfect life. We couldn't to take the punishment that we deserve so that God can forgive us, so he can be just and he can be forgiving at the exact same time. Third day, he rose from the dead. That's the punchline. That's Easter. That's the definitive stamp that says what Jesus did on behalf of sinners was an acceptable sacrifice from God who raised him from the dead. That's what Easter is

[Tyler (Student)]

then. I think Easter, instead of it being celebrated with bunnies and I. Dude, fake grass. Shouldn't it be celebrated with blood?

[Phil Johnson]

Well, you know what?

[Mike Riccardi]

That's a. What are you studying? You're kind of smart and it's kind of annoying me right now.

[Tyler (Student)]

Political science.

[Mike Riccardi]

Okay. No, I agree with the bunny thing. Makes no sense to me. Some people would say that's kind of like a pagan thing or fertility thing. I have no idea what it has to do with what I just told

[Tyler (Student)]

you, but I think that if you celebrate the gruesomeness of the. Of his murder, of his killing, like, with then the correct way of doing it or the most accurate way to depict it would be to have crosses around with red stains and blood. But I think that would turn a

[Mike Riccardi]

lot of people off the story that I just told you and you were very patient to listen to render a verdict. Is it true or false?

[Tyler (Student)]

Is it true? Specifically, what you're referring to, is it true or false? The entire narrative, I think aspects of it are. Are questionable. Which ones specifically, first? Well, I think you're. You're the question. Is it true? Like, I also studied philosophy a little. I mean, uh. Oh, I mean, there's a lot to say. Something is true. I mean, from a philosophical standpoint. No, I don't think that your premises necessarily form a obvious conclusion. So I don't think that it's. I wouldn't say it's true or valid. So I guess it depends on your perspective.

[Mike Riccardi]

I'll bet you'd say it's true for me, though, wouldn't you?

[Tyler (Student)]

That. Yes.

[Mike Riccardi]

May I suggest to you it doesn't matter what I think about it. It either is or it is not true. Render a verdict true or not true, because to me, I can believe that the Easter Bunny is God. And if I just bounce around with a basket full of chocolate eggs, I'm going to go spend eternity in a fertility field with a bunch of bunnies. I can believe that and I can think it's true, but I think we realize that's just false. So I'm asking you this, that I Just shared with you about Jesus Christ dying, rising from the dead. True or false?

[Tyler (Student)]

It depends how you. It's. You can't say that. It's true.

[Mike Riccardi]

Okay, let me try this. George Washington was the first president of the United States. True or false? Come on, Tyler, say it.

[Tyler (Student)]

George Washington. That's in dispute as well. That is not an empirical.

[Phil Johnson]

It is not in dispute.

[Tyler (Student)]

George Washington. I can't remember what his name there is.

[Mike Riccardi]

John F. Kennedy was assassinated in 1963.

[Tyler (Student)]

That is empirical fact.

[Phil Johnson]

Why?

[Tyler (Student)]

Because he was. He was killed. He was undisputably the president, United States.

[Mike Riccardi]

And how do you know?

[Tyler (Student)]

Because he was elected.

[Mike Riccardi]

But did you witness any of this?

[Tyler (Student)]

Did I witness him?

[Mike Riccardi]

Were you an eyewitness to his presidency and assassination?

[Tyler (Student)]

No, but. Going through primary accounts, then, yes.

[Mike Riccardi]

So primary accounts would satisfy your standard for whether or not something is true or false?

[Tyler (Student)]

That along with other things, yes.

[Mike Riccardi]

So let me just try to tackle that one for you. There were 500 eyewitnesses to his resurrection. Specifically, he had 12 disciples. One of them is the one who betrayed him. Whose name was Judas Iscariot. Nobody calls their kids Judas anymore. Okay, so Judas Iscariot betrayed him. But the other 11, they witnessed his resurrection. They saw him being beaten, hung on a cross. They knew for a fact he was dead. Three days later, came to life. All 11 of them willing to die. 10 of them were put to the stake, they were set on fire, they were hung up upside down and they refused to recant. And this is really important, Tyler, because you actually set the standard yourself. They were eyewitnesses. They didn't just believe a guy like me or a street evangelist. They saw it, and that's why they were willing to die for it. You have eyewitnesses.

[Tyler (Student)]

They saw him. They saw him being resurrected.

[Mike Riccardi]

They saw him raised from the dead. Third day, came out of the tomb.

[Tyler (Student)]

They physically saw him? Yeah, they physically saw. I thought they. I thought something has to do with his. The spirit. Something spiritual relating to that.

[Mike Riccardi]

No, it's his physical body came back from the grave and they saw him. 500 eyewitnesses who were all willing to die. And we've got accounts of it called Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. There's some extra biblical sources, but they're the most reliable. The people who are willing to die for it.

[Phil Johnson]

Gotta pause right there. Fully recognizing. A lesser man would use that opportunity to plug the man who split time. 22 proofs, Jesus is God. Eyewitness accounts demonstrating they were willing to die for what they saw. The resurrection. It's the Linchpin miracle that demonstrates Jesus is God. That booklet is [e-mail] time but I'm not a lesser host. We'll continue our conversation with Tyler next on Wretched Radio.

[Fortis Announcer]

Most of us haven't really thought about persecution. Not the real kind, not the kind where false following Jesus actually costs you something. But Christians throughout history have indeed faced it, and depending on where things are headed, we might too. So what does the Bible say you're supposed to do when the pressure mounts? That's exactly what our resource Persecution is all about. It's teaching built on the Book of First Peter with historical context from the Fox's Book of Martyrs, you'll get a biblical framework for faith in when things aren't easy anymore, fix your hope on heaven, grow in holiness and submit to authority unless they tell you to sin and keep proclaiming the gospel anyway. This is honest teaching, and it's more timely than any of us may want to admit. Persecution Available now on Fortis. Download the app for free on your smartphone, on your smart TV, or just simply go to fort fortis plus.org thanks for listening to Wretched Radio today. You know, there's no shortage of voices telling women how to handle anxiety, how to navigate relationships, how to find their identity. Honestly, most of it sounds pretty good until you realize it's just self help slapped with Bible verses. That's not the same thing as biblical wisdom. And that's why we at Fortis Institute present to you the Better Way to with Libby Glossin. Libby is an ACBC Certified Biblical Counselor, and she's not just interested in giving you coping strategies. Libby's desire is to take you to Scripture and show you what God actually says about the things you're actually walking through. And this is the kind of God that our gospel partners are making possible. If the content we're producing at Fortis Institute has been meaningful to you, I want to ask you to prayerfully consider becoming an ongoing monthly gospel partner. Just go to fortisinstitute.org right now and find out what it would look like for you to be a part of getting content like the Better Way into the hands of women who need it. Wretched Amazing grace Amazing gospel 369 million that's how many people are a part of the new Apostolic Reformation movement. And if you've never heard of it, that's part of the problem. Maybe you have heard of Jesus culture. Maybe your teenager listens to their worship music. Maybe your church sings their songs on Sunday morning, but you don't know what they actually teach and where it leads. Drunk in the Spirit pulls back the curtain on one of the most destructive forces in Christianity today. Who are these people? What do they believe? And why should it matter to your family and your local church? This isn't fear mongering, it's education. Because you can't guard against something you don't recognize. And this movement has tentacles in places you wouldn't expect. If you care about protecting your family and your church from false teaching. That sounds. Sounds price centered, but it's not. This is essential. Drunk in the Spirit. It is streaming now for free on Fortis Plus. Download the app on your smartphone, on your smart TV, or just simply go to fortisplus.org.

[Todd Friel]

Know your church fathers. Athenagoras was a Christian philosopher in Athens who used his training to defend the Christian faith against Roman persecution. He wrote on the resurrection of the dead, arguing that the nature of God, the nature of humanity, and the concept of justice only makes sense if there is a physical resurrection. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Phil Johnson]

Actually, I think I'm going to change my name to Costello because I'm talking to a guy named. Yeah, but this is Wretched Radio. A witness encounter with Tyler, political science philosophy major, no matter what I tossed at him. Yeah, but this is Tyler.

[Tyler (Student)]

Things get lost in translation. Things like when you tell one person a story, then that other person says the story and then someone else changes. Like something gets lost in that. So I don't think that it's as verifiable and definitive as the JFK thing. I mean, I can pull up a video and see JFK's head getting taken off. I can see him being sworn in as President of the United States. I can look at FEC records showing that he. That he was elected as President of the United States.

[Mike Riccardi]

But nobody had to defend what they eyewitnessed with JFK with their life. But Jesus had people who were willing to die.

[Tyler (Student)]

The level of commitment does not make me believe that it's true.

[Mike Riccardi]

Oh, but it does if the person was an eyewitness? See, if I just believed a tale. When my parents told me to believe in the Easter Bunny and I did, you put a gun to my head and say, you're going to vouch for the Easter bunny? Out of 500 people, one of them would go, okay, I'm making it up. Nobody did. Everybody was willing to die.

[Tyler (Student)]

But you could say that same thing about a lot of people. You could say the same thing about terrorists. They believe in their cause so much that they're willing to die. That doesn't mean that it's true or not.

[Mike Riccardi]

No, that's very, very fair. But that's not what. Exactly what this is.

[Tyler (Student)]

No, but I think that you're offering that as. You're offering that as evidence as. Just because their level of commitment, their level of commitment makes. And that they really believed it means that it's true. No, it doesn't show that it's true. It just means that. It just shows that they are very committed into what they believe.

[Mike Riccardi]

But again, the key here is not just somebody who believed it. For instance, people who are willing to die a terrorist today, they maybe believe their holy book, but they didn't see their prophet, they didn't see somebody rise from the dead. These were the eyewitnesses, and none of them recanted. That's the key, eyewitnesses. And you yourself said that's the standard Jesus story meets your criteria.

[Tyler (Student)]

That was a standard, along with other.

[Mike Riccardi]

Let me share something with you. I think you might find this somewhat compelling. All right. You mentioned the Bible, like telephone translation sort of game. Okay. All of the manuscripts, the Bible, everything that we have in the Bible was written in the first century. The New Testament was written in the first century, not hundreds of years. There's a field of study called textual criticism. This is when we study books in antiquity. The Bible compared to, say, Julius Caesar's Gallic Wars, Homer, Virgil, any of them is the number one most authenticated text, bar none. Now, hang in there with me because I can see the skeptical look, you can know for a fact that the New Testament that we have is exactly what was written down 2,000 years ago. It's undisputable. That doesn't mean it's true, though. It just means it's accurate. So all I did for you is just kind of knock down the domino of the telephone game. These are accurate translations of the original manuscripts, but that doesn't prove they're true. They are accurate, but the question is, are they true?

[Tyler (Student)]

When you ask if something is true or not, it's. And then the. The primary. The primary rationale as to why it's true is other people's account is a little. Is flimsy.

[Mike Riccardi]

But that's all of history though, right? You believe Napoleon Bonaparte, he waged some wars. You believe in the French Revolution. All of that comes from manuscripts. And you believe those. You probably believe Julius Caesar was assassinated on the steps by his buddy Brutus, right? Yeah, those translations, just so you know, the ones that we have from Caesar's Gallic Wars. The earliest manuscript is 900 years away from the actual events. We've got five manuscripts, the Bible. We have manuscripts within a couple of centuries, 5800 of. See the difference? You believe Julius Caesar, he passes your standard, but you're not letting the Bible pass the same standard which sprints past the authenticity of Caesar's Gallic Wars. How come it's the best history book, most accurate book from antiquity. Why wouldn't you accept that and believe that?

[Tyler (Student)]

Why wouldn't I? Well, I don't think any. It's not consistent, I guess because I don't, I'm not. Like I said, I'm not really, I'm not big, I'm not a biblical scholar. It's just that it doesn't, when you go to, when you start talking about religious texts, it always comes down to there is a way that in your mind that you can do gymnastics to make yourself believe whatever you want.

[Mike Riccardi]

I wouldn't argue with that.

[Tyler (Student)]

And so, like I hear it from you and then I could, from that perspective, I could go to a Muslim and hear their, their, their side of the Quran and they could say merely the same things like, these are people who've seen this, who've seen that, who's seen that. It's like it just comes down to everyone says they're right and no one can really say definitively if they're right or not. Like, I don't think that there is really anybody disputing the facts relating to Caesar, as you said. I mean, religious texts and religious interpretations and the things that are contained in it are always up for, always up for dispute. And many people dispute them all the time.

[Phil Johnson]

Right.

[Mike Riccardi]

But at the same time, that does not mean that one of them isn't true. You can't. Just because there's a debate doesn't mean that somebody isn't right. Correct.

[Tyler (Student)]

Yeah, that's true.

[Mike Riccardi]

Furthermore, I would suggest you, let's say I had you pick a card and you pick the seven of spades. We bury it into a deck of cards and we start flipping them over. Once we find your card, the seven of spades, I don't need to look at the rest of the cards. I found the one I'm looking for. I found the one that you picked. Same thing is true with truth. Once I found the truth, I don't need to examine every single religion. I'm done with my search. Because this is actually. How many lies have you told in your life?

[Tyler (Student)]

Countless.

[Mike Riccardi]

If you knew I told countless lies, what name what would you call me?

[Tyler (Student)]

A human.

[Mike Riccardi]

Rhymes with pants on fire.

[Tyler (Student)]

You would say a liar.

[Mike Riccardi]

So would you agree that you too are a liar?

[Tyler (Student)]

I would say that everyone lies.

[Mike Riccardi]

No argument. All right, let's talk about stealing. Have you ever stolen anything?

[Tyler (Student)]

Wait, I think there's a category. I think there's a distinction between saying that you've lied in the past and giving a person the general categorization as you are a liar. I think you are a liar gives off a connotation as you are a habitual liar.

[Mike Riccardi]

So I only need to tell one lie to be called a liar? I only need to murder one time, and I'm a murderer. Fair enough. How many things have you stolen in your life?

[Tyler (Student)]

I have no idea.

[Mike Riccardi]

But you have?

[Tyler (Student)]

Yes.

[Mike Riccardi]

So what name would you call me if you knew I stole stuff?

[Tyler (Student)]

It would be labeled as a thief.

[Mike Riccardi]

Fair enough. So you and I are liars and thieves, right? Lust. Jesus said you look at a woman with lust, You've committed adultery in your heart. Innocent or guilty on that charge?

[Tyler (Student)]

Oh, I plead guilty on that.

[Mike Riccardi]

So you are a lying, thieving adulterer. Have you ever taken God's name in vain?

[Tyler (Student)]

I'm sure I have.

[Mike Riccardi]

So God made you, has given you life, your backpack, your gum, your education, every good thing that you've enjoyed. And instead of praising his name, you dragged it through the mud like a four letter filth word. Fair enough. I know you don't believe in him.

[Tyler (Student)]

Say that again. I zoned out. When you were partially with wow, it

[Mike Riccardi]

wasn't that long of a sentence.

[Tyler (Student)]

I was thinking about something else.

[Mike Riccardi]

You were thinking about somebody who just walked by. I got that. Okay. Instead of using his name to say, thanks for everything, Creator, you omg. Like you're saying a filthy word and dragging his name through the mud. It's called blasphemy in the Bible. And you've done that. Premise of the creator aspect, I understand that. But if he exists, you've used his name in a lowly way.

[Tyler (Student)]

Yes. If I accept all your premises, which I don't, but if I did, then yes.

[Mike Riccardi]

So, Tyler, here's the deal. Someday, let's hope it's not today, but it could be. God calls your number, you're done. He's not going to sustain your life anymore. He's had enough of you. And he drags you into his courtroom, and he's the just judge on the bench, and you're in the docket and the books are open, and he not only knows what you've seen, done, but what you've thought everything is exposed and brought into the light. Would God render an innocent or guilty verdict on Tyler?

[Tyler (Student)]

Guilt? Innocent on what?

[Mike Riccardi]

Breaking his laws.

[Tyler (Student)]

Breaking his laws. Oh, yeah, I think, yeah. Guilty.

[Mike Riccardi]

You're dead. God renders a verdict guilty, Sends you to hell. Weeping, gnashing of teeth, lake of fire. It is no fun. Nothing to look forward to. No parole date. Forever and ever and ever.

[Tyler (Student)]

Vindictive man.

[Mike Riccardi]

Or that would be one guilty criminal.

[Tyler (Student)]

I guess it depends on your perspective.

[Mike Riccardi]

It also depends on who the judge is and against whom we've committed the crime. You see, our crimes, Tyler, aren't just committed against one another. They're committed against your sovereign. It's rebellion against the king. And that is why it demands an eternal punishment. Because our crimes. We don't see him that bad. But he does.

[Phil Johnson]

All right.

[Mike Riccardi]

See ya.

[Phil Johnson]

Goodbye. If you run into your own. Yeah, but. And there are many of them, you might want to get out of the realm of the intellect to the land of the conscience, because you might spend your entire time just. Yeah, but this. Well, what about that? Yeah, but then. And they're never really hearing because they simply turn it into an intellectual argument which tends to be. Not always, but tends to be rather fruitless. Use the law, Convict of sin, righteousness and judgment. Work with the Holy Spirit, using the word as much as you can. Use your apologetics as much as is needed in order to be polite. But please note, apologetics never caused anybody to drop to their knees. It is the gospel that will do that. Work alone. Law, gospel, repentance, faith. And then pray like nobody's business that God will save them. And until tomorrow, go serve your king.