Witness Wednesday: Intelligent Design, “I Don’t Care”, Pluralism

Summary

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Wretched Radio with Todd Friel

Witness Wednesday: Intelligent Design, “I Don’t Care”, Pluralism

Date: May 13, 2026
Location: Georgia Tech

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode of Wretched Radio is a "Witness Wednesday" segment, where host Todd Friel engages in live street evangelism at Georgia Tech, having candid conversations with students about their beliefs, the existence of God, morality, and the Christian gospel. The theological focus includes critiques of secular and pluralist worldviews, the question of intelligent design, the meaning and application of the Ten Commandments, and the necessity of grace over works for salvation.
Tone: Candid, probing, sometimes playful, always earnest about evangelism.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Intelligent Design vs. Chance (01:31–06:37)

• Todd’s "Architect Analogy":
  Todd starts by questioning students in technical fields (architecture and biomedical engineering), drawing parallels between the design of buildings and the universe.
  • "Can a building go up like that, that's that sophisticated, without an architect?" (01:47)
  • Students generally resist the analogy, suggesting chance and vastness of the universe make self-organization plausible.
• Science vs. Faith?
  Todd points out that both naturalists and theists rely on faith—either in God or in science/the unknown.
  • "Well, you got faith in the idea that, well, we don't know where it came from. So I'm just believing that it came from somewhere, but I don't know where." (06:27)

Notable Moment

• Host's critique:
  "How much more does God need to do? What else does he need to provide for any human being to know that he exists besides a universe?" (02:57)

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2. Apathy and Morals: "I Don't Care" (06:56–12:20)

• Confronting Moral Apathy
  Todd explores one student's apparent indifference to questions of God, morality, and even afterlife.
  • "I don't really care because when I die, I don't really believe that I'm gonna be judged." (09:46)
  • The student admits to apathy on matters like gossip and conscience ("I don't care enough to do that." [07:48])
• On Being a 'Good Person'
  Todd tests moral standards using the Ten Commandments (lying, stealing, lust/gossip, etc.), pushing for honest self-assessment.
  • Student reluctantly concedes guilt under such a standard but maintains indifference.
• Conscience and Subjectivity
  Student argues for moral subjectivity and denies an objective standard.

Notable Quote

• On Judgment:
  "If God is just, should he reward you, take you to heaven, or should he send you to hell?" – Todd (11:07)

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3. Cultural Christianity and Doubt (15:04–25:38)

• Conversation with Junior (Jamaica, Christian background):
  • Junior grew up Christian but is unsure and in a state of searching.
  • He can’t clearly articulate the gospel and expresses skepticism about what he was taught.
  • Todd challenges the assumption that being raised in a Christian home or adopting “good values” equates genuine faith.
• Nature of Sin
  Todd walks through the Ten Commandments as a universal standard, including internal sins (lust, intention), illustrating everyone's need for redemption.
• Historical Reliability & Sincerity
  Junior questions the Bible’s human authorship and motivations, to which Todd responds with the argument of eyewitnesses/willingness to die for a truth.

Notable Quotes

• "Christianity teachings have a lot of good things... but the problem is we don't do what we've been told." – Junior (24:07)
• "You've got to repent and trust Jesus." – Todd (24:54)

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4. Religious Pluralism and Works-Based Salvation (29:27–40:07)

• Conversation with Dan (Catholic, civil engineering student):
  • Dan believes all good people, regardless of religion, can make it to heaven: "I believe Jewish people, Muslim people, and everybody can make it to heaven." (32:00)
  • Sees salvation as a combination of goodness, helping others, and forgiveness, with a strong emphasis on personal goodness and contrition.
• Todd's Counterpoints:
  • Analogies of a judge and criminal to explain why goodness or apology does not automatically merit forgiveness—justice must be upheld.
  • Pushes the doctrine of original sin versus innate goodness, challenging the notion that external influences are to blame for sin.
  • Dan maintains that everyone is "good at heart," attributing evil to societal influences.

Notable Moment

• On Innate Goodness:
  "Everybody was on the same plane when they were born. It's how they were raised and what society they were in." – Dan (40:11)
• On Forgiveness:
  "Forgiveness and letting someone go is not the same thing... you can forgive someone that committed a crime, but he's still in jail." – Dan (35:51)

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5. Grace vs. Works: The Core of the Gospel (44:01–49:38)

• Todd articulates core gospel doctrine:
  • Good works cannot erase the debt of sin; only Christ's substitutionary atonement suffices.
  • Jesus’ death is presented as “the great exchange”—the punishment believers deserve laid upon Christ, and His righteousness credited to them.
  • Ephesians 2:8-9 quoted to emphasize salvation by grace alone:
    "By grace are you saved through faith and that, not of yourself. It is a gift of God, not of works, so that no man can boast." (46:25)
• Cease striving, rest in Christ:
  • Todd warns against self-righteousness and calls for humility and repentance, highlighting the danger of trying to “earn” one’s way to God.

Memorable Closing

• "If you die now trying to get to heaven by yourself, you will have failed... Repent of your good works. Repent of your striving to please Him." (49:37)

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Notable Quotes & Exchanges (with Timestamps)

On Intelligent Design:

• Todd: "It makes about as much sense as saying that building went without an architect." (01:47)

On Faith and Indifference:

• Biomedical Student: "I believe in science rather than pulling a creator out of the air." (06:33)
• Todd: "We both have faith though... it's just the object of our devotion is something completely different." (06:41)
• Student: "When I die, I don't really believe that I'm gonna be judged." (09:46)
• Todd: "I don't want to walk away and be troubled tonight thinking maybe you were spoofing with me this time." (12:06)

On Sin and Redemption:

• Junior: "Everybody got their own definition of good people." (16:36)
• Todd: "You're a lying, thieving, blasphemous adulterer at heart." (17:17)
• Todd: "A Christian would say he's a bad man who's been forgiven by a good God. That's what a Christian would say." (21:35)
• Todd: "You've got to repent and trust Jesus." (24:54)

On Works vs. Grace:

• Todd: "If you do something bad, make up for it by doing something good and then God kind of washes the slate clean and you're set to go..." (35:10)
• Todd: "Your good works, offered to God by yourself, are worthless to him and offensive to him." (46:12)
• "He wants to turn you into the image of his son, Jesus, so that he can point to you and say, this is how good I am. I should have crushed him like a bug, but instead I swept down and saved him." (48:41)

On Pluralism:

• Dan: "I believe Jewish people, Muslim people, and everybody can make it to heaven. I don't necessarily think like you have to do everything that Catholics do." (32:00)

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Major Segments & Timestamps

• 01:31–06:37 – Intelligent design vs. chance with architecture and biomedical engineering students
• 06:56–12:20 – The "I don't care" encounter: apathy toward spiritual consequences
• 15:04–25:38 – Junior (Jamaican student): cultural Christianity, doubt, and searching
• 29:27–40:07 – Dan (Catholic): pluralism, works-based salvation, and the justice of God
• 44:01–53:13 – Gospel explanation: the need for grace, not works; the "great exchange"

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Conclusion

Throughout this episode, Todd Friel persistently challenges secular, apathetic, and pluralistic views. By drawing students into discussions about design, objective morality, conscience, and the standards of God, he highlights the futility of relying on personal goodness or indifference for salvation. He presses for clarity on the need for repentance and faith in Christ alone for true forgiveness and eternal life—a message both confrontational and compassionate.

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For listeners seeking to understand how Christian apologetics intersect with campus conversations about ethics, pluralism, and salvation, this episode serves as a representative sample of evangelical outreach and its theological commitments.

Transcript

[Todd Friel]

Hi, this is Todd Friel, executive director of Fortis Institute. Perhaps you've noticed Christians aren't looked upon as favorably as we once were, and we're determined to not retreat in the face of persecution. Taunting legislation that makes life harder for Christians to speak the Bible. I'd like to invite you to join us in our spring matching gift campaign. No retreat. We are determined to stand firm, and we are inviting you to stand firm with us. We will continue to make as many and more resources as we currently do because we are determined to see our king exalted. And if that matches your heartbeat, would you kindly consider joining us as a gospel partner? Your gift is doubled right now. You can learn more and join [e-mail] donate.

[Wretched Radio Announcer]

Wretched radio begins in 3, 2, 1.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

If the God of the Bible really exists, I would go gladly to hell and anybody happy to go to heaven to worship such a creature is morally bankrupt. It is because God's wrath is real that his mercy is relevant.

[Todd Friel]

Unless you have a real wrath, the

[Todd Friel (Host)]

biblical concepts of mercy and of grace are robbed of their meaning.

[Wretched Radio Announcer]

It's time for Wretched Radio with Todd Fr.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Witness Wednesday at Georgia Tech. Hey, young man, while you're walking that way, can I talk to you on the radio? Okay. What are you studying? Architecture. Cool. All right, I'm gonna throw something at you, my architecture friend. There's a building that's being built right there. I'm aware. Yep. Who designed that bad boy? I don't know. Do you think anybody was involved in the design? I'm pretty sure someone was. An architect, right? Yes. How do you know that? Because architects design a lot of buildings. Can a building go up like that? That's that sophisticated without an architect? Uh, I don't know. Don't think so. I mean, but ultimately, somebody had to be put in the design. Yeah. All right. Do you have any idea where I'm leading you right now? You're probably leading me to the fact that no architect was involved. Well, that would be the theory of the Big Bang, that there was no architect involved with the creation of the universe. That's kind of the Big Bang idea that this just all kind of exploded and here it is all designed. And to me, it makes about as much sense as saying that building went without an architect. What do you think? Am I nuts? I don't know. So how do you think we got here? Dude, Big Bang. Really? Yeah. That everything just kind of blew up and got organized. I wouldn't really call it organized. All right, dude, thanks. For the chat. Appreciate it. Great. Well, now that we've resolved that, I don't know why he's going to school. We don't need architects. You don't think the universe is organized? All right, we need more grants here at the campus. We need to start buying some kids some telescopes. They need to start start looking around. It's not organized. How much more does God need to do? What else does he need to provide for any human being to know that he exists besides a universe? The reality is, most people never open up their eyes, look around, and go, huh, there's got to be somebody behind this. They simply never take the time. But he is calling out to everybody every single day. They're just not listening. Let's see if this young man will listen. Hey, dude, while you're walking, can I walk with you and talk to you on the radio?

[Junior]

Sure.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Yep. For then, what are you studying here at Georgia Tech?

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Biomedical engineering geeks.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

All right. I just had a conversation with a kid who's studying to be an architect, and this is what I proposed to him. Just like that building that's going to be the new student center there, there was an architect. He hasn't met the architect, but he knows that an architect designed it because it's so intricately designed, it couldn't go up all by itself. And so I reasoned with him that it seems to me the plan that we're on, the trees, the birds, the bees, and you and me and the stars in the solar system are very organized. There had to be an architect of the universe. And he just flat out disagreed with me. Would you agree or disagree with my logic and thinking?

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

I'm also going to disagree.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Really?

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

How come it seems implausible that there's some sort of creator, some sort of architect?

[Todd Friel (Host)]

I would reason with you that it's more implausible that all this stuff got designed without an architect.

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Sort of seems more likely, given the scope of the universe, that it all just sort of fell into place by chance.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

You're thinking that it all happened by chance?

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Okay, let me try a kooky scenario. You and I take a bunch of stuff, okay? Some boards, your sandal, this curtain down here from the fence, and we take that campus directory sign, cut down a tree and take some of those bricks, and we put it in a pile. We put a stick of dynamite underneath it, blow it up, and a house appears.

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Right.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

How reasonable is that?

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Well, trying to compare the formation of, like, the Earth, like, from that little thing is trying to. Like, trying to describe the whole economy basically, with like one little supply and demand chart. It's the same reason why everybody's not rich. You can't really describe it that way. In the scope of the universe, impossible is really an empty term.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

So why?

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Because it's so big that the impossible is possible.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

So statistically, ultimately, because it's so big and time just seems to be so big, it could happen.

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

What could happen?

[Todd Friel (Host)]

The creation and design of the universe.

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Yes.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Where did all this stuff come from?

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Well, I mean, it's matter.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Yeah. Where'd it come from?

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

It was. I mean, it's not really where it came from. It was.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

So it's all always existed?

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Yes. Matters. It's always been matters.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Eternal.

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Well, I mean, nothing is really eternal.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

But doesn't something have to be?

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Nah.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

So where did it come from?

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

I mean, nobody knows.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Ah. Hey, so you've got faith too?

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Not really, no.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Well, you got faith in the idea that, well, we don't know where it came from. So I'm just believing that it came from somewhere, but I don't know where. And it got all organized.

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

I believe in science rather than pulling a creator out of the air.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Okay. But we both have faith though. Because I believe in God, you believe in science, so we're both men of faith. It's just the object of our devotion is something completely different.

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

I suppose. Though it's not really devotion more than it is sort of an occupation, but.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Oh, I bet it is a devotion.

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Not really. I could take it or leave it.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Okay, let's see if you're willing to leave it. Would you consider yourself to be a good person?

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

No.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Really, what makes you bad?

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Nothing makes me bad. But I mean, good is sort of an open ended word.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Fair enough. Let's. Let's try. I'll create the standard and I think we're gonna agree to it for the most part. Lying, I think we'd agree is a bad thing. Yes. Have you ever told a lie?

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Yeah, of course.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Have you ever stolen anything that's a bad thing?

[Junior]

No.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Really? Yeah. You're sure? Yeah. Downloading music?

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

No.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Pens.

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Pens?

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Pens. Something. Something small, Insignificant Coins from your parents? Stole something from a sibling?

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Not on purpose.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Alright, how's about let's try gossip?

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Gossip?

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Have you ever been guilty of gossip? Really, dude, come on. You've never shared a rumor about somebody?

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

I don't care enough to do that.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

You're an apathetic fella.

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Yes, I am.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Alright, let's try lust. How's about purity of heart and thought? Have you ever Looked at a girl and had sexual desires about her.

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Who hasn't?

[Todd Friel (Host)]

I wouldn't argue with you. Have you?

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Of course.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Okay, so as far as thought, life, not all that pure.

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

I mean, I don't really believe in the whole purity thing. I believe in humans themselves as flawed and aspiring to be some ideal of something better just sort of seems irrational.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Okay, but I suspect you strive for that every day. But even so. You said you're a good person, but we've discovered that you're.

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

I didn't really.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

But that's okay. Well. Okay, we've only been set up. My definition, right, would be no lying, no stealing, no lusting. Okay. And you've. You've violated those principles.

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

So if that's the standard, that would make you not a good person at all. That would definitively make you a bad person, wouldn't it?

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Of course. Okay, I suppose.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Here's what I just gave to you. If you didn't recognize it, I tried to give you some of the ten Commandments is what I just shared. Because Jesus said you thought, well, where did the. Where did the lust thing come from? Jesus said if you look at a woman with lust, you've committed adultery in your heart. Because God goes deeper than just what we do. It's what we also think. Remember what we're going for here. I'm going to try to see if you're as blase about holding onto your science as you claim. All right.

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Well, I said I could take it or leave it.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Alright, let's see. If you died and God judged you for every thought, every word, every deed, everything you've ever done or failed to do. Not thanking him for air and food, for being unkind, for not helping when you should have by lusting and lying, dishonoring your parents. Would God see you as an innocent or guilty man?

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

I mean, I don't know, but I don't really care because when I die, I don't really believe that I'm gonna be judged.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

I know, but I'm appealing to your conscience right now. The courtroom in your brain that says,

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

I also find that sort of irrational.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Yeah, well, you might find it irrational, but I suspect you use it an awful lot.

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Not really.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Really. So you're a. You're a criminal?

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

No.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

You abide by your conscience all the time.

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Conscience is sort of. It's sort of a subjective term. There is no objective conscience. Everybody has their own particular set of morals.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Yeah, I'm not sure that's provable. I think pretty universally we agree that is Provable either. Well, that's a separate subject, but let's just stick with your conscience for a moment. I think you'd agree it's bad to lie, right?

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

And steal. Okay, okay. Would God see you as innocent or guilty? If his standard is the Ten Commandments, which I've just tried to. To open up for you, would he see you as innocent or guilty?

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Oh, unbelievably innocent.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

No, I think you're pulling my leg.

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

No, that's serious.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Really?

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Absolutely.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Why would you say such a thing?

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Because I'm the epitome of good.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Aha. Now you're pulling my leg.

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

No, I'm absolutely serious.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

You are? Yes. So, dude, innocent or guilty before God? I don't know.

[Junior]

I mean,

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

based on the criteria that you've laid before me, I suppose that that would make me guilty.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Okay, so if God is just, should he reward you, take you to heaven, or should he send you to hell?

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Well, if he's as merciful as you Christians like to say, he would forgive me and offer me a seat at some sort of divine table of paradise. That even though he's so unfathomably great, we seem to try and fathom something that's absolutely amazing based on our own human ideals. So I suppose he'd try and do that.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Well, actually, he's trying to do that right now with you, right?

[Junior]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Not when you die, because then it's too late. Court case. You die once, you get judged by God, party's over. Books are closed, the verdict gets rendered, and it's all done. But he does offer you mercy today.

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Okay, well, when I see God in front of me, I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

You're not concerned about it today?

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Not in the slightest.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Honest, no. I want to make sure, because I don't want to walk away and be troubled tonight thinking maybe you were spoofing with me this time.

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

No, honestly, I don't really care at all.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

So this conversation is just sort of more like a distraction in your day?

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Yeah, pretty much.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

But you're being very polite and I appreciate that. All right, dude, thanks for the chat.

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

All right, cool. Have a good day.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

You too. Goodbye. It's Witness Wednesday. This is Wretched Radio.

[Fortis Institute Narrator]

No Retreat. That's the name of Fortis Institute spring match campaign.

[Jimmy Hicks]

And here's why.

[Fortis Institute Narrator]

The culture we live in right now has made it pretty clear it has very little interest in the true gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. We're being told to keep our faith quiet in public or to soften what we believe so it goes down easier. Fortis Institute has no intention of doing either one. We exist to advance the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, and this spring, we're doing it as loudly and as boldly as we know how. Your gift will help launch two new podcasts. It puts Todd Friel's new book, Go Serve youe King into print through HarperCollins. And it puts the gospel back onto college campuses where it's least welcome and most needed. Our goal is $250,000, and we're asking if you would prayerfully consider helping us get there. You can find out more right [e-mail]

[Todd Friel]

donate perhaps you've been wondering, is there a Christian university that isn't woke or that hasn't compromised on important biblical doctrines like, you know, the age of the earth?

[Todd Friel (Host)]

There is.

[Todd Friel]

It's the Master's University in Southern California. Beautiful campus. All of the athletics and activities that you've come to expect from universities. But it's more than that. The academic programs are most excellent. Preparing students, students for the future. The Washington Post just said number six for preparing students for the real world. All that, plus the Master's University isn't woke and it is thoroughly biblical. Would you like to learn more? I encourage you to visit the Master's University at Masters. Edu Wretched Masters eduretched.

[Wretched Radio Announcer]

God has given the church many gifts for the building up of the body. One gift is exhortation, the spiritual ability to encourage, comfort and admonish God's people. Whether God's people are oppressed, confused, or in error, God has provided the gift of exhortation to comfort, urge, and correct them. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Frio.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

It's Witness Wednesday. This is Wretched Radio. Hey, young man, can I walk with you while you're walking?

[Junior]

Okay.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Can I talk to you on the radio while we're doing that? Okay, cool. What's your first name?

[Junior]

Junior.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Junior?

[Junior]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Really? That's the official name on the birth certificate. Junior. How come?

[Junior]

Well, I mean, in Jamaica, it's normal to for somebody.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Okay, so you're from Jamaica, dude. What is the predominant religion in Jamaica?

[Junior]

I mean, most people know Jamaica, like for the Rastafarianism?

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Yes, sir.

[Junior]

But I think it's Christian religion.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

What are you?

[Junior]

I'm a Christian.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Please help me. I've been asking a lot of people that question. Can you tell me how I can become a Christian?

[Junior]

Well, I'm not really definitely a Christian.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

You're maybe a Christian.

[Junior]

I'm just growing up in A Christian home, you know?

[Todd Friel (Host)]

All right. But you didn't. It didn't stick to you.

[Junior]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Are you trying to figure it out?

[Junior]

I mean, not really. I mean, I haven't really been trying to. I haven't really thought about it.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Can you tell me what the main message of Christianity is?

[Junior]

I guess because, I guess, like, Jesus is the Savior.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Yeah. What does that mean?

[Junior]

That he's one that created the earth and people, and you should serve him, I guess.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Okay, what's the Savior part have to do with it?

[Junior]

I guess they're saying that he's the one who's gonna come back and redeem the earth of the evil. Get rid of the evil and stuff like that, you know, and claim all the good people.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Claim all the good people? Yeah. Are you a good people?

[Junior]

I guess everybody got their own definition of good people.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Well, how's about God's definition? Wouldn't that be the important definition?

[Junior]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

I mean, do you think by his standard, you're good?

[Junior]

Yeah, I think I'm a good guy.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Really?

[Junior]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Really?

[Junior]

Yeah. Hmm.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Have you ever told a lie?

[Junior]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

How many?

[Junior]

I mean, I don't know.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Have you stolen anything in your life?

[Junior]

When I was a kid, yeah.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

All right. Have you ever lusted after women?

[Junior]

Everybody. I mean, I guess every straight man do.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Have you ever taken God's name in vain?

[Junior]

I think so, too.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Okay, dude, that was four commandments that you've broken. But you said you were a good person.

[Junior]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

You seem like a nice fellow, but if I were the judge, I'd say you're not a good person at all. You're a lying, thieving, blasphemous adulterer at heart.

[Junior]

Well, I mean, what about you?

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Oh, ditto. Yeah, ditto. Oh, sure.

[Junior]

Okay. So that means.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

And I'm older than you so far. More.

[Junior]

Oh, yeah.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

In fact, I was an overachiever, so I probably did more at your age.

[Junior]

Okay. So I guess you do the same thing to yourself.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Well, I think. I think what it demonstrates is that the Bible is accurate when it says that everybody breaks God's law.

[Junior]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

So nobody's not perfect and nobody's good. Not one. That's what the Bible says.

[Junior]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

In fact, not even. Not perfect. Not even close. Everybody's very wretched. Right. Try this one on for size. I put a computer chip behind your ear that records every thought that goes through your brain. For one week, we fly in friends and family from Jamaica and all of your pals here at Georgia Tech. And we put up your thought life onto the big screen for them to see. What would they see that has been running through the brain of Junior?

[Junior]

I don't know.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

I mean, kind of scary, wouldn't it?

[Junior]

I don't know. I mean, it's just. I mean, I don't know what I'm gonna perceive. I see on a daily basis. And, I mean, that's gonna allow me to think different.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Well, here's what I just tried to share with you, friend, is that the Bible says you're not good. The Bible says you're bad. And that God's not gonna come back and take the good people. He's gonna come back and judge everybody. And if he judges you, he would find you guilty of breaking his laws just like everybody else. And what he should do with you is not rescue you, but punish you. That's what he should do with you, right?

[Junior]

Well, I mean, obviously it's not that way because, I mean, all of us sin and we're not being punished, you know?

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Well, he is that way. And he will ultimately punish everybody when they die or beforehand. Or he'll kill you.

[Junior]

Are you a Christian too?

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Yes, sir.

[Junior]

Okay.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Yeah. But see, here's what. Here's what I'm leading you toward. We're all in big trouble left to ourselves. Nobody does good. Not one. But there is a God who is good. And he sent his son, Jesus Christ, lived 2,000 years ago, took on human form just like yours, and he was punished by men, beaten by men.

[Junior]

It's. The thing is. I mean, that's what I'm kind of. Since. I mean, I'm kind of a little bit confused about, you know, because. Yeah, I mean, I took some classes and I read a lot about history. I mean, the history of the human race. And I mean. And I'm not sure if everything they told me is true. You know what I mean?

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Well, I'm telling you what the Bible says.

[Junior]

I mean, who wrote the Bible?

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Men who saw Jesus Christ get punished, beaten and crucified because they wrote it down. And they would have to be wicked and awful to share that lie.

[Junior]

Exactly. I mean, you say people are wicked and awful. You just told me that. And I mean, they are wicked people before you.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Oh, of course. But I don't think the guys who wrote the Bible were.

[Junior]

Why not?

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Because they saw something.

[Junior]

How do you know that?

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Well, I'll tell you why. All right? This is the biggie, and this is the important part. Okay? I could, but let's say, this guy told me to believe in Oprah Winfrey as the great goddess of the universe, okay? And I believe this guy. I might be willing to die for Oprah Winfrey, okay? But here's the difference with Jesus. Eyewitnesses saw Jesus walk this earth, get beaten and crucified and rise from the dead, and they were willing to die for what they saw. Not for what they were told, but for what they saw. And then they wrote it down so that you could know that there is a savior. We come back to that savior business. Who took the punishment you deserved so that you could stand before God and be seen as not guilty because of what Jesus did on your behalf to save you.

[Junior]

Okay.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Okay.

[Junior]

Yeah. I mean, I heard all of that. I don't know how. Well, all of that. But I don't know what's happened, like, like, 20, 30 years ago. I mean, all I know is, like, what I see in front of me. I mean, like. I mean, the way I see life, you know? I mean, it's like you plant a tree and it takes time to grow, you know? I mean, and if you don't give it water, you don't get nourishment.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

It doesn't grow.

[Junior]

That's the truth. You know what I mean? So that's the. What's he like? You know what I mean?

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Well, I'm. Dude, I'm telling you the truth.

[Junior]

I don't know that.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Well, I'm trying to persuade you, all right? I'm not gonna tase you. I'm just gonna tell you with all the earnestness that I can muster. Your conscience tells you, you know, God exists. You know it.

[Junior]

I'm actually a Christian. I mean, if you made a total statement.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

But, Jude, not the way you're talking. Not the way you're talking. You're not a Christian. A Christian. A Christian would say he's a bad man who's been forgiven by a good God. That's what a Christian would say.

[Junior]

What I'm saying is, like, I just don't like accepting everything that people do give to me like that. I mean, I like to find out things myself, you know, I mean, and question things.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

But if you're a Christian, you believe what the Bible says.

[Junior]

I was growing up in a Christian home. I correct that earlier. You know?

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Right? I know, but that doesn't make you a Christian.

[Junior]

I mean, I guess not entirely, right?

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Not at all.

[Junior]

No.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Any more than making you. What is. What did your dad do for a living?

[Junior]

My dad is a painter.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Okay. Are you A painter?

[Junior]

No, I didn't mean to sound.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

You grew up in a painting home. Okay. You as a grown man need to determine if this stuff is true or not. Okay?

[Junior]

I'm still in the process.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

I know you are, friend. And I'm just trying to plead with you a little bit and maybe rattle you a little bit. Okay? The Bible says many people will say to Jesus, lord, Lord. And he's going to say, depart from me, you worker of iniquity. I never knew. You see, you can claim to know Jesus, but the question is, does Jesus know you? Is he your. This is the word you used. Is Jesus your savior? Okay, you need a savior like the rest of us. Your conscience tells you you've broken the laws. You need to have them forgiven. You can't work off your crimes. Jesus, the perfect God man, was beaten, crucified on your behalf. That God might look at you through the work of Jesus Christ and see you as not guilty for because of what Jesus did, your badness put on Jesus his goodness credited to your account. That's the gospel. Now you must respond to that gospel. You can reject it if you choose. But if you realize, listening to your conscience, that is right, that is the truth.

[Junior]

It's not rejecting. You know what I mean? It's just that I've been taught to not just take what somebody throw at me.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

I understand. Until you bend the knee, you are rejecting it.

[Junior]

No, I'm not rejecting it.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

So have you repented and put your trust in Jesus and him alone?

[Junior]

That's what I'm saying. I'm still searching. If I'm still searching, I can't make any final decision. That's what I'm saying.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Okay, then you're not a Christian yet. You're not a Christian yet.

[Junior]

Exactly. I'm still searching.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

I can live with that. But don't think that you're a Christian just because you kind of think you are.

[Junior]

I mean, as I said, I grew up in a Christian home. I kind of corrected that, you know.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Yeah, I understand. Okay, fair enough.

[Junior]

So I guess I'm not entirely a Christian here, but I mean, Christian, the Christianity, Christianity teachings have a lot of good things. And I mean, be kind. I mean, all those stuff are like good things, you know? So adapt those stuff, you know?

[Todd Friel (Host)]

I mean, but the problem is we don't do what we've been told.

[Junior]

We're human being, you know, we're not perfect.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

I know. That's our problem. Exactly. Dude. If it starts to shake you up, your conscience starts screaming, you are in big Trouble. Think about what Jesus did for you. And that should cause you to repent, turn from your sins and put your trust in him.

[Junior]

I mean, I'm not a sinful person. I wouldn't say I'm a sinful person.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Well, we just discovered you are, dude.

[Junior]

I mean, I said I lied before like you did.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

That makes you a sinner.

[Junior]

Exactly. And you too, and you're a Christian, so.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

But I'm a forgiven sinner and you're not.

[Junior]

Why not? Why he's not forgiving me.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Because you've got to repent and trust Jesus. Well, that's what he said.

[Junior]

But that doesn't make no sense.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Okay, but he's the only one who died to forgive you of your sins.

[Junior]

The thing is, if God has the power to control everybody, I mean, that's what I've been told. And if he allow us to live by our free will, because he know that's the only way he can get real truth, is to. For us to like, come to our own sincerity, you know, I mean, to make our own decision and say that is what we want. That's real true to me.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Well, I'm. I'm telling you what Jesus said. No, he said he's the way, the truth and the life. Yeah, he wrote it down. Yeah, he did.

[Junior]

I mean, I gotta give his number to call him because I read the Bible. I mean, I read the Bible like almost every day.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Really? Yeah.

[Junior]

I mean, my favorite chapter is like Proverbs because I teach.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Okay, let me encourage you to read a different book. Open up the book of Romans. Okay. Proverbs are sweet, but you haven't been keeping the Proverbs either. Open the book of Romans and give that a go. All right, See ya, Junior. It was a pleasure. Goodbye. Witness Wednesday on Wretched radio.

[Jimmy Hicks]

And it's now time for your daily Fortis news break. The production of Fortas Institute. The state of Tennessee just made history as the Jackson Madison County School board voted unanimously to approve Union Academy as the first full blown religious charter school in the country. The Alliance Defending Freedoms March. Mark Lippelman praised the board for refusing to discriminate based on the school's religious character. Meanwhile, in California, parents at Canyon Hills Junior High actually protested a middle school assembly celebrating America's 250th birthday. The event included the Pledge of Allegiance, the national anthem, and trivia about the American Revolution. One grandparent told reporters she was concerned about, quote, the views of Turning Point USA and the Heritage Foundation. So now teaching kids about founding documents is a partisan conspiracy. Yeah, at least in this country it seems to be. Oklahoma Governor Kevin Stitt signed two major bills recently. The first makes trafficking abortion pills a felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison and a $100,000 fine. Stitt also signed the Right to Raise act, which protects adoptive and foster parents from being disqualified just because they refuse to embrace LGBT ideology with the kids in their care. Common sense in written into law in the consumer space. A company called Radiant Mobile launched recently as the first cell phone carrier that blocks pornography, LGBT content and violent material. At the network level, founder Paul Fisher says he has every right to create what he calls a Jesus centric environment for families. The company's chief operating officer pointed to a recent survey finding 67% of pastors have approved personal history with pornography. Let that one sit with you for a second, if you will. Attorney General Ken Paxton has opened an investigation into Drone Nerds and Anzu Robotics, two companies linked to the Chinese Communist Party. Paxton's office says the firms misrepresented their security measures while quietly enabling data collection that could end up in the hands of Beijing. Translation, your drone might be working for somebody else. And across the pond, the Scottish Greens just sent an Indian PhD student named Q. Munavian to a five year term in the Scottish Parliament. He identifies as non binary, holds a temporary student visa, and he's already asking colleagues to chip in £2,000 to renew it. That's par for the course. And finally, the Retail Council of Canada says grocery theft is approaching $10 billion per year and much of it driven by organized Eastern European crime rings working the self checkout aisles. In one case, a man got caught swapping $97 cans of baby formula for items priced under a dollar. So much for sorry, eh? That wraps up today's Fortis news break. I'm Jimmy Hicks. If you want more, you can download Fortis plus or sign up to become a Fortis Insider for exclusive daily content. Both can be [e-mail] and don't forget, you can and subscribe to Fortes News on your favorite podcast app in order to get these updates daily and until tomorrow, go serve your king.

[Wretched Radio Announcer]

Important Dates in Christian history 1456 Johann Gutenberg produces the first printed Bible, and his press becomes a means for dissemination of new ideas and catalyzing changes in politics and theology. Without the printing press, the Reformation may have looked very different. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

This is Witness Wednesday on Wretched Radio at Georgia Tech. There's a young man walking rather briskly who's gonna get run over? Dude, look out. Hey, while you're walking fast, can I talk to you on the radio? Sure. You're a friendly guy. What's your first name?

[Dan]

I'm Dan.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Dan. Nice to meet you. How do you do?

[Fortis Institute Narrator]

Pretty good.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

You're way perkier than I am. What are you studying here?

[Dan]

I'm a civil engineering student.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Civil engineering. So you want to be a very polite engineer?

[Dan]

Hopefully.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Alrighty, then. So, dude, I was just having a chat with. What religion are you?

[Junior]

Catholic.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

You're Catholic? Okay, good. I was just having a chat with a guy who said he was a Christian and I asked him to convert me.

[Dan]

Okay.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

And he had nothing for me. Could you convert me? Would you please? I'm asking you.

[Dan]

What argument are you against this?

[Todd Friel (Host)]

I'm just. I'm a seeker in the universe and I'm trying to figure out life. As the years ebb by, I get a sense that they're coming to a close and I better get my house in order. So I'm thinking about things.

[Dan]

Okay. If there was no God and say, you're right, then how there's still evil in the world, but how do you explain all the good people just doing what they want

[Todd Friel (Host)]

part? Just haven't really thought about it.

[Dan]

Just haven't thought about it?

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Okay, well.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

But I'm not sure. Where are you taking me? Help me out. Where are you going with me?

[Dan]

I'm just saying that. I mean, usually the most common argument against a God is that there's still evil in the open.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

I'm not.

[Junior]

I'm not.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

I'm not fighting with you. I'm asking you, sign me up for your faith. What's in it for me?

[Dan]

What's in it for you?

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Salvation.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

What does that mean?

[Dan]

Being saved eternally in the end.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Okay, so going to heaven is what I hear you saying?

[Dan]

Yes.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

You hesitated on me.

[Dan]

Well, I mean, if you live your life properly and live as a true Christian.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Okay, so I have to be a good person.

[Dan]

Yes.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

And then I go to heaven?

[Dan]

Not necessarily. I mean, I think and believe that there's more to it than just being, quote, a good person and it's helping others and truly living well. But I mean, I mean, being good is kind of an understatement. It's truly living your life for God.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

It's being really good.

[Dan]

Okay. Yes.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Okay. So I think, best I can tell, I'm living really good.

[Dan]

Okay.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

It doesn't sound like I need to be Catholic.

[Dan]

I don't necessarily think you have to be Catholic to make it to heaven.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

What do I need to be? Just be good. Yeah. Are you good?

[Dan]

I mean, I believe Jewish people, Muslim people, and everybody can make it to heaven. I don't necessarily think like you have to do everything that Catholics do. And that's just what I believe and that's my beliefs.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

So do you think that you're making your way to heaven through your good goodness?

[Junior]

I hope so.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

How do you know?

[Dan]

How do you know?

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Yes.

[Dan]

I mean, you have.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

You seem like a nice fellow, but I suspect you do things that are not good, right? Well, yes.

[Dan]

I mean, everybody tells lies. Yeah.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Do you tell lies?

[Dan]

At times? I try to stay away from it.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Everybody steals. Do you steal?

[Junior]

No.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Ever?

[Dan]

I did once, years ago.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Okay. How's about purity of heart? What's going on in your brain? What? You look like a nice clean cut fellow, but what's going on? Like lusting, sexual thoughts and desires, Everybody

[Dan]

runs into those I believe.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Okay.

[Dan]

But it's how you react to those that really matters. And if you let them overtake and consume your life, then that's where it becomes a problem. But if you think about them and then move past it and see the good in that other person, that's where you can.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

But isn't it still a sin to have lustful thoughts?

[Dan]

I think it's human nature.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Could be. But that's still a sin when it.

[Dan]

Sin is human nature as well. I mean, it was. We were born into sin through the sin of Adam and Eve back in the day.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Okay.

[Dan]

And so that's kind of something we have to deal with. That. That is our human nature.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Right.

[Dan]

But again, if you can get over that and defeat the sin, then that's where you can be a good person and make it to heaven.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

So right now, where do you stand? Are you a good person? Have you overcome the lusting and the lying and anything else so you don't have to be perfect, just pretty good to get to heaven. Let me try this angle. All right. I'm just, I'm looking at this from a judge standpoint. If a guy stood in front of me and said, judge, I'm an innocent man, but I've broken the laws, I'd say, well, you're confused, you're deluded, you're not innocent, you're guilty. And if somebody said to me, you're good, but you've done bad things, I'd say, I think you're confused. Doing bad things makes you a bad person. I don't believe that. Where am I Off, in my logic,

[Dan]

because society kind of drives us to do bad things as well. I mean, it's the, the outside influence that drives us to do these bad things. And in the end, God is our one judge.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

And I understand, but wouldn't the judge say, that's kind of the devil made me do it? Excuse. You're blaming others for your crimes. I mean, these days an individual doesn't get to stand before a judge and say, yes, I committed that crime. But society is pretty rough out there. Judge. The judge would say, it's irrelevant. You are liable for your crimes.

[Dan]

You have to be responsible for what you do. But it's as bad as it say, like society does shape who we are. I mean, I just got out of an ethics kind of class that basically that's the whole gist of the class.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

It can influence you and cause you to be a Democrat or a Republican or a capitalist or a communist. But you individually are still responsible for whether or not you lie and lust and steal and cheat and gossip and blaspheme, right?

[Dan]

Yes.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Okay, so, dude, if you've done those things, I'm having a hard time understanding this. It sounds to me like your system is if you do something bad, make up for it by doing something good and then God kind of washes the, the slate clean and you're set to go.

[Dan]

God's gonna wash the slate clean no matter what.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Really.

[Dan]

He's an ever forgive. He's an ever forgiving God that looks past those things and looks on the good in your life.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Okay, but that to me sounds like a judge who lets criminals go without punishing them. I don't like that idea at all. I don't think he's a good judge. If he does that, he forgives them. I understand, but that's the same thing if you're guilty and the judge says, ah, forget about it.

[Dan]

Forgiveness and letting someone go is not the same thing.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

What's the difference?

[Dan]

You can forgive someone that committed a crime against you and your family, but

[Todd Friel (Host)]

he's still in jail, so there's still a punishment.

[Dan]

Forgiveness is something in the heart. It's not okay, like whether he's riding

[Todd Friel (Host)]

in jail or not. All right, so God forgives. What's he gonna do with your crimes

[Dan]

then forgets about them.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Well, that's. Then, then I don't think that makes sense. Because then he would no longer be a just judge. He'd be a very corrupt judge.

[Dan]

No, because he does the same for everybody.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

It's irrelevant. It's still not upholding Justice. If there were, let's say that everybody on this campus got pulled in before a judge for fill in the blank, whatever crime. Okay? And the judges said, I'm forgiving you all and letting you go. Has he or upheld justice.

[Dan]

In society's sense of justice? No.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Okay, so he would not be a just judge, right?

[Dan]

Correct.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

So if God just lets people go, just cause he would not be.

[Dan]

He's gonna let you go when you're truly sorry for those sins.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Okay, imagine again, let's go back to the courtroom analogy.

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Okay?

[Todd Friel (Host)]

A criminal stands before the judge and says, judge, I'm really, really, really, really sorry.

[Dan]

Okay?

[Todd Friel (Host)]

If the judge said, oh, okay, you're really sorry, I'll let you go, there's still a problem. He's contrite and he should be, but that does not satisfy justice. The judge still cannot say, you're free to go. Everybody who's in jail has said they're sorry. But that does not, because society has

[Dan]

the laws that the judge is bound by.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Exactly. Exactly. And so does God. Because God is the law. He is the judge and he wrote the laws. And his standard would be things like lying and stealing and lusting or being angry with somebody or gossiping or cheating or dishonoring your parents or blaspheming. Those are his standard. And everybody who breaks those laws should be punished. And even if they try to do really good, imagine a criminal who broke a law, stood before the judge and said, yes, Judge, I am guilty. I have broken the laws. But I washed your windows on your car on the way in here. The judge would say, that has no bearing on your court case. You have broken the law. You are guilty. I must punish you. I am sworn to uphold justice. So if that's reasonable and logical, what I just laid out, if you've broken God's laws and I've broken God's laws, best I can figure this out, you and I are going to stand before God and we are going to be in a world of hurt. We're going to be judged for what we have done. And I've got a feeling that the punishment for our crimes is going to be exceedingly severe.

[Dan]

So you're believing that God does not forgive you?

[Todd Friel (Host)]

I haven't heard you say any reason why he should.

[Dan]

Why he should?

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Yes,

[Dan]

while we're responsible for our actions. I mean, it's the kind of thing like he looks at the good in you. Like everybody does have good. I believe that everyone is innately good. While we're, you know, we still have that Original sin. And, you know, there's negative influences, you

[Todd Friel (Host)]

know, dude, you're a real nice guy. Honestly, I like you. But you just said something. You think we're good, and yet we've got original sin, which is it. Everybody is innately good, but we all sin, right? Didn't we just agree to that?

[Dan]

Influences around us lead us to sin.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Irrelevant. There's people who have grown up with a silver spoon in their mouth, and it just doesn't matter. Have you ever seen. Have you ever been to, like, the McDonald's Playland?

[Junior]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Or Monsters as kids? Have you seen a kid?

[Dan]

But it's all an innocent fun. I mean, it was for me, at least.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Well, perhaps. But if you take a close look at it, kids can be very wicked at heart. And besides that, you're not a kid anymore. You're a grown man. And if you're honest with yourself, when you think about your desires and your thoughts and your attitudes and your lack of gratitude toward God, really a good guy at heart.

[Dan]

Yes. I believe everyone's good at heart.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Everybody but Saddam Hussein and Adolf Hitler, Osama bin Laden.

[Dan]

Everybody was on the same plane when they were born. It's how they were raised and what society they were in.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

All right, dude, you're walking this way. I have to take a break. Okay. And then we'll keep chatting, but I don't want to keep holding you up. Okay? All right, listen, you're a nice young man. All right? This is Wretched Radio.

[Fortis Institute Narrator]

Hey, thanks for listening to Wretched Radio today. You know, a lot of ministries talk to individuals, and that's fine, but somewhere along the way, the local church gets forgotten. And we believe that to be a big problem, because the local church is the institution that Jesus promised to build. It's not an afterthought. It's the plan. And that's why we exist at Fortis Institute. We exist to strengthen local churches, not replace them. Everything we create, our podcasts, our videos, all of our resources and teaching, it's all designed to be useful to pastors and media, social, small group leaders and church members who want to grow. We're not trying to be your church. As a matter of fact, we're always pointing to your local church. And if that mission is something that resonates with you, would you consider joining us as an ongoing monthly gospel partner? Your support helps us create content that equips the saints and strengthens the body of Christ. And we know you have questions about what that would look like in your life, and we've got answers. @fortisinstitute.org Help us be a part of something that serves the local church. Wretched Amazing Grace, Amazing Gospel Most of us haven't really thought about persecution. Not the real kind, not the kind where following Jesus actually cost you something. But Christians throughout history have indeed faced it, and depending on where things are headed, we might too. So what does the Bible say you're supposed to do when the pressure mounts? That's exactly what our resource persecution is all about. It's teaching built on the book of 1 Peter, which, with historical context from the Fox's book of martyrs, you'll get a biblical framework for faithfulness when things aren't easy anymore, fix your hope on heaven, grow in holiness and submit to authority unless they tell you to sin and keep proclaiming the gospel anyway. This is honest teaching, and it's more timely than any of us may want to admit. Persecution Available now on Fortis. Download the app for free on your smartphone, on your smart TV, or just simply go to fortisplus.org as a Christian, at some point you're going to be in a conversation about abortion. Maybe it's at work, maybe it's at Thanksgiving dinner, or maybe even with your own kids. And when that moment comes, you're either going to be ready for the conversation or you're not. Life Is Best gets you ready. It's hosted by Scott Klusendorf, one of, if not the sharpest pro life apologists in the world. This 13 episode series walks through every major argument you'll hear and shows you how to respond with clarity and compassion. You'll also hear from voices like Paul Washer and Dr. John MacArthur, bringing the weight of scripture to an issue the world wants to keep shallow. You won't find angry debate tactics or gotcha moments. This is thoughtful teaching that engages the mind and the heart, because the goal isn't to win an argument, it's to change minds and point people to Christ. Life is best. All 13 episodes streaming now on Fortis for free. Download the app on your smartphone, on your smart TV, or just simply go to fortisplus.org.

[Wretched Radio Announcer]

Books of the Bible God called the prophet Jonah to preach repentance in Nineveh. Jonah fled, but he could not outrun God. He was cast into the sea and swallowed by a great fish. Jonah repented and God spared him. Jonah then preached in Nineveh and they repented. God is compassionate and merciful, and he is calling men from all nations to repentance. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Let Me try to reason with you for a minute. Okay. Okay. Because I've been trying to challenge your thinking a little bit and your understanding of justice and what God should do with people who are unjust. People who break his laws are unjust. They are unrighteous, and they should be at the receiving end of God's punishment and his justice because they've broken laws primarily against him. So when the Bible says something like, all lies will have their part in a lake of fire, yikes, he means it. And so when he says, if you take his name in vain, he will not hold you blameless, who takes his name in vain? God is going to have a day of judgment that he has set aside where he's going to judge the world in righteousness. Every Buddhist, every Baptist, every. Everybody who has broken his laws. The books will be opened up. And if that true for you, and if that's true for me, what I've tried to share with you, your efforts to try to clean up the books are not going to help you any more than a criminal who says, imagine what was the big Ponzi schemer guy? What was his name? Madoff. Bernie Madoff. Remember, he's the guy took millions or billions of dollars from celebrities and rich people and he got busted for it. Now imagine he stands before the judge and said, judge, yes, I am embezzled billions of dollars, but I have given over $30 million to the Red Cross. What would the judge say to him?

[Dan]

He'd still convict him.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Exactly. So you've broken God's laws. And if you try to say to him, but I've done good, you're still going to be convicted. Okay? So that means you and I are entirely helpless. We are hopeless and helpless unless there's another solution. And here's what I would suggest. The solution is for you, my Roman Catholic friend, right? It's not works. Because all of your works, the Bible says, are like filthy rags. Because they come from what you said, a corrupt nature, a sinful nature. And when we offer up our good works to God, they're tainted. Just like if Osama bin laden offered you $100, you'd go, Ugh. Who wants that coming from those filthy hands? I don't want anything to do with it. The same thing with your good works. Offer to God by yourself are worthless to him and offensive to him.

[Biomedical Engineering Student]

Okay?

[Todd Friel (Host)]

There's a better solution to our problem. Jesus Christ, the God man, saw your problem and in his mercy and compassionate, loving kindness came to this earth and took on human form. Just like you and he was beaten by men, he was spat upon and he was hung on a cross where he gasped for air and died for you. The Bible describes this as the great exchange. You're the guilty man. Jesus is the perfect God, man. You've broken all the laws. Jesus kept every single law. The punishment that you deserve was put on Jesus Christ. So that if you will respond to the good news that God died for sinners by right repenting. What that means is you agree with God. I'm not good. I agree that you and you alone, not the Buddhist, not the anything else, you are the true and living God. And I have sinned against you and offended you. And you turn from your sins not in perfection, but in a different direction. No longer loving sins and self and self righteousness. And you say you're sorry and you put your trust in Jesus and in him alone. The Bible says when you do that, the good works of Jesus will be credited to your account. The punishment you deserve has been laid on him so that you can be forgiven by God, not earning your way or working your way, but completely forgiven. And that way when you die, you go to heaven not based on your works, but based on his works. And that way he gets all the credit for you going to heaven. Because if you contribute even this much to you going to heaven, you can then get to heaven and say, wait, but I did something, I mean I did something to earn my way here. And God did it all when he died on the cross and said it is finished so that he can get all of the credit. Ephesians 2, 8, 9 book in the Bible, by grace are you saved through faith and that, not of yourself. It is a gift of God, not of works, so that no man can boast. That is so crystal clear. You and I can be forgiven. You and I can have our sins washed away not by our goodness, but by His. But we have got to respond to that good news in humility. You're not a good man, you're a bad man. Just like me, just like this, just like all of us, just like the Bible says. And when you're honest with yourself, you may be you've been trying really hard. You know your heart and what's going on in your head. And you might not be Osama bin Laden, but you've had plenty of lusting, lying, cheating, stealing, dishonoring your parents. And if nothing else, friend, think of all the times that you have breathed air in this conversation and didn't thank God for it. We're little rebels at Heart that God wants to save so that he can point to us for all eternity and say, this is how good I am. Instead of sending him to hell, I saved him and forgave all of his sins. And he wants to turn you into the image of his son, Jesus, so that he can point to you and say, this is how good I am. I should have crushed him like a bug, but instead I swept down and saved him. Dude, that's the good news of the Gospel. And I know that's a little different than what you've grown up hearing, perhaps in the Roman Catholic Church. I'll be leaving your company now. Okay?

[Dan]

Okay.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

I have just offered you complete forgiveness of sins and everlasting life based on what Jesus Christ has done for you. Doesn't come from me. It comes from him. I'm simply telling you the Bible makes it so clear that if you do not respond in complete humility. Jesus said that unless a man is born again, he will not see the kingdom of God. What he was telling Nicodemus in John chapter three is, you've got to die to yourself. You don't kill yourself by jumping off a building. You die. And the way you die, Paul said, Romans 7, the law, the Ten Commandments, should kill you. Jesus, do you remember the Sermon on the Mount when he got up and he said, those Beatitudes and those nice statements. They weren't nice statements, they were severe statements. Blessed are those who are broken in spirit, for they will see the kingdom of God. It means the individual who is completely broken, who is entirely undone, dead to self, no longer striving to attain heaven. He has forsaken his good works and cried out to God for mercy. Jesus said, you've heard it said of old, thou shall not commit adultery. I say, if you look with lust, you've committed adultery in the heart. If you have ever been angry with a guy who's an idiot or a moron, the Bible says you're a murderer at heart. That should kill you. It should just bring you to the point where you go, God, I am so sorry. I have just been so wicked. Please forgive me, have mercy on me, save me. And you put your trust in Jesus, and he will, when you die to yourself, he will make you alive again in him and he will save you. And, dude, you'll stop ceasing and you'll stop striving and you'll no longer have a guilt conscience because it will be cleansed. And you will then desire to live a life of righteousness, not to earn heaven, but because heaven has been earned for you. Huge difference. You will be good not for goodness sake or to be rewarded to get to heaven, but you will be good because the good God Jesus Christ has died to save you. Okay? Huge difference. One is works. Your system right now is works. I'm telling you, like Jesus said, cease striving. If you are tired of working, rest in him and his works and then live a life in response to that. That's the good news of the gospel and it's completely different than what you've been living by. So here's what we got, dude, and I'll leave you with this. If you die now trying to get to heaven by yourself, you will have failed. Okay? God calls out to you this day. Repent of your good works. Repent of your striving to please Him. Humble yourself. And he says when you do that, he will lift you up in due time. Okay? Consider my words very carefully. I'm either right or wrong, okay? I'm not here to sign you up for a cult or anything else. I'm not going to taser you. I'm walking away. I would plead with your conscience, that thing inside of your brain that says, I haven't been good, I've been bad. Jesus says, I know. In fact, you're worse than you think, but I'm so good, I will save even you. He wants to save you. He wants to rescue you. Okay? Rest, repent and trust in Him. All right? That's all I got for you today, dude. All right, thank you. All right, see you.

[Junior]

Thank you.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

You're a gentleman. I appreciate it. Goodbye.

[Dan]

Have a nice day.

[Todd Friel (Host)]

Goodbye. Well, part of me wonders who you are right now. I know how radio works. I know how this goes. You're tripping around on your radio. You put the scan on and you didn't happen to be under a bridge and look at that, we showed up. Maybe, just maybe, you heard something of yourself in this young man. You've been trying and you have been trying you. But there's something inside of you I hope that will agree. It hasn't been enough. It just has not made my conscience feel any better. Then I would plead with you as earnestly and as gently perhaps as I can. You have got to simply lose the self righteousness. You need to cease striving, trying to earn, trying to get yourself there, trying to present yourself as the acceptable gift to God. Because you're not. The only acceptable gift is Jesus. And you must repent and put your trust in him. And then you will be acceptable to God based on what he has done. Despite what you have done, Today is the day of salvation. Until tomorrow, go serve your king.