Witness Wednesday: Karma vs Justice, Moral Truth, Eternal Stakes

Summary

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Wretched Radio: Witness Wednesday

Episode: Karma vs Justice, Moral Truth, Eternal Stakes
Host: Todd Friel
Date: May 6, 2026

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Overview

This episode of Wretched Radio’s "Witness Wednesday" features host Todd Friel engaging in spontaneous, street-style conversations with university students about morality, the possibility of absolute truth, and the core claims of the Christian gospel. Friel questions students on their beliefs, encourages critical thinking regarding moral standards, and gently challenges their views with biblical perspectives. The episode’s tone is a mix of earnest evangelism and light humor, tackling profound questions about justice, karma, goodness, and eternity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Moral Standards vs. Absolute Moral Law

• Friel frequently questions guests on how they determine right from wrong.
• Many students express a belief in doing their personal best according to their internal sense of right and wrong, but Friel challenges them with the idea of an external, absolute standard.

Notable Quote:

“Is it possible that there’s a moral standard outside of yourself?”
— Friel to Casey [02:25]

2. Karma, Cosmic Justice, and the Nature of God

• Students like Casey reference karma, hoping wrongs are ultimately balanced.
• Friel questions karma’s mechanism: "Who’s the cosmic accountant that's making sure people get punished?" [03:21]
• Discussion shifts to whether believing in karma is, in some sense, a belief in a higher power or God, even if not explicitly religious.

Notable Quote:

“It's almost probability, it's just a power...the forces of nature.”
— Casey about karma [03:32]

3. Religious Upbringing, Doubt, and Syncretism

• Several students grew up in religious homes but now profess uncertainty or eclectic spiritual beliefs, blending Christian upbringing with ideas like karma.
• Friel explores the disconnect between inherited faith and personally-held convictions.

Notable Moment:
Casey admits,

"There were some things that I was unsure about and some things in other religions that I thought were interesting." [04:35]

4. Goodness, Guilt, and the Gospel Test

• Friel employs the "Are you a good person?" framework, walking students through the Ten Commandments to illustrate human fallibility.
• Students generally acknowledge they've lied, stolen, or lusted—but differ on whether that fact makes them 'guilty' in any ultimate sense.

Memorable Exchange:

"So you’re a liar, a thief, a murderer, and potentially an adulterer at heart. Yikes. You’re sure you’re a good person?"
— Friel to Nathan [18:59]

5. The Gospel Explained and Responded To

• Consistently, Friel explains the Christian gospel: everyone is guilty under God’s law, but Jesus’ sacrifice satisfies God's justice and makes forgiveness possible for those who repent and trust Him.
• He contrasts human attempts to ‘do good’ or ‘try their best’ with the biblical message that even our best deeds are insufficient apart from Christ.

Notable Gospel Presentation:

“You've broken the law. Jesus paid your fine. And if you'll repent, apologize, put your trust in Jesus Christ, then the Bible says you'll be forgiven of your sins and God will grant you everlasting life. That's the good news.”
— Friel to Casey [10:00–11:10]

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In-Depth Conversations & Key Segments

Casey: Searching for Truth and the Limits of Karma

• Timestamps: [00:54–11:21]
• Upbringing: Southern Baptist; now eclectic, interested in karma.
• Main struggle: Does not fully identify with any religion; respects science and different spiritual ideas.
• Friel's response: Challenges subjectivity in morality, then clearly explains the Christian gospel as grace for lawbreakers.
• Casey’s reflection:

  "If I stand in front of him [God]...and he deems me guilty and sends me to hell, then I...will burn in hell, and that’s what I pay. At least...I have done my best." [08:44]

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Nathan: Catholic Roots, Uncertain Faith

• Timestamps: [15:28–21:21]

• Upbringing: Catholic; believes in "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost" but admits no strong convictions.

• Interaction: Candidly admits lacking a reason for his beliefs beyond upbringing.

• Test of 'goodness': Admits to lying, theft, anger ('murder of the heart'), but assumes innocence before God.

  Quote:

  "I'd have to say innocent." — Nathan [19:31]

• Friel clarifies: Objective guilt isn’t based on personal feelings but God’s standards. Wraps up with a clear gospel summary.

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Kevin: Methodist Heritage, Facing Sin and Grace

• Timestamps: [29:49–40:30]

• Upbringing: Methodist; unsure of Methodism’s message.

• Admits to sin (lying, theft, lust), rationalizes "nobody's perfect," hopes trying hard is enough for heaven.

• Friel’s courtroom analogy demonstrates that good intentions do not erase guilt.

• Gospel explained as Christ substituting for sinners; call to repentance and faith.

• Kevin claims to have responded to the gospel as a teen, but Friel encourages ongoing self-examination.

  Quote:

  "You're not a good man. You're a forgiven man by a good God." — Friel [39:31]

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Graduate Student: Grace, Goodness, and the Problem of Total Depravity

• Timestamps: [44:01–54:47]
• Upbringing: Christian, spiritually conscious.
• Self-assessment: Admits to sin but hopes for grace to make up for his failings.
• Friel introduces "total depravity"—the idea that without Christ, even our best deeds are tainted by sinful motives.
• Analogy: Giving roses (a good thing) as Adolf Hitler (the corrupt source) [49:32].
• Explains justification and sanctification: Salvation as God’s work alone.
• Graduate student affirms he repented as a teenager and tries to live out his faith, ending with encouragement to examine one’s own faith honestly.

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Selected Memorable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• "If I stand in front of your God...I will burn in hell, and that's what I pay. At least I can say I have done my best."
  — Casey [08:44]

• "Then I deserve to go to hell? That's what it boils down to, Casey."
  — Friel [09:30]

• "You tell a bunch of lies, you're a liar."
  — Friel to Nathan [17:43]

• "Hopefully he would...done enough that his grace would provide for a little, you know, to make up for the things that I haven't done."
  — Graduate Student [47:06]

• "You're not called to do the saving, you're just called to do the preaching."
  — Friel, encouraging Christian listeners [25:18]

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Episode Highlights

• Philosophical and practical engagement: Friel's campus conversations are unscripted and sometimes lighthearted, but always return to the weighty topics of truth, justice, and eternity.
• Clarity on the Christian gospel: Repeatedly articulated that forgiveness and eternal life are not earned by human effort, but given freely through Christ’s sacrifice.
• Challenge for listeners: Friel urges Christians not to shy away from tough spiritual conversations, advocating for respectful and honest engagement in daily life.

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Timestamps: Important Segments

• Opening banter, setting up the campus interviews: [00:08–00:54]
• Casey conversation (karma, justice, and gospel summary): [00:54–11:21]
• Nathan conversation (Catholic background, goodness test): [15:28–21:21]
• Kevin (Methodism, moral self-exam): [29:49–40:30]
• Graduate student (grace, depravity, justification): [44:01–54:47]
• Friel’s exhortation to Christians to witness: [21:21–26:01]

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Takeaway for Listeners

For Christians: The episode demonstrates that most people—even those raised in church—may not fully grasp the gospel. Friel encourages respectful witnessing and explains that faithfully sowing the message, not converting, is the believer’s role.

For skeptics or seekers: The conversations model open, non-hostile dialogue about deep topics—clarifying what Christianity actually claims about human nature, justice, and salvation.

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“Go serve your king.”
— Todd Friel, sign-off catchphrase

Transcript

[Todd Friel]

Wretched radio begins in 3, 2, 1.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Seriously, if you want to relieve stress, go to the word of God. Oh, my goodness. Just so weird, isn't it? People say stuff like that. I apologize for him.

[Casey]

Are you kidding me?

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Let's all do baptism and I have a little pool here and we'll all feel nice and relaxed. That's baptism. No, baptism is a sacred Christian right. All the various yogas are sacred Hindu rice.

[Narrator / Announcer]

Wake up, America.

[Todd Friel]

It's time for Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Okay, I'm gonna try to scoot over and talk to this guy. Only on university campuses. Dude's wearing flip flops and a ski hat. He's hot, he's cold. I'm not exactly sure, but I wanna talk to him. You're listening to Wretched Radio on Witness Wednesday. Hey, dude, while you're walking, could I talk to you for a moment on the radio?

[Casey]

Sure.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Cool. Just walking. I'll follow along. All right. What are you listening to on your headset right now?

[Casey]

Newfound Glory.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

What's that?

[Casey]

It's a band.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

P. Band, I'd say Newfound Glory. What does that. What does that mean?

[Casey]

It's a band name.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

What does it mean?

[Casey]

Newfound?

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

It's got the name Glory. Is it religious?

[Casey]

No, no, not religious. I'd say it's just.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

I really don't know. All right, here's what I wanted to talk to you. You're flip flopping and you got a ski hat on. How calm.

[Casey]

The hat's comfortable and I like to have the air on my feet.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

But not on your head? No. Okay. I mean, that's fair. We all have personal preferences. It's also fash for the chicks, of course. There you go. Because that's a big part of going to school, isn't it? Yeah, sure. Overall, do you think this is a pretty moral campus?

[Casey]

I'd say so.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

You think so? How do you know compared to.

[Casey]

There's a lot of places you can go, religious wise, if you'd like to. They keep everything pretty decent. You don't see like, you know, inappropriate posters. I agree.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

I've been surprised at that.

[Casey]

I think it's a pretty moral.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Pretty good campus. Yeah. What about you? How are you morally, I mean?

[Casey]

I'm not religious. I don't go to church. But I believe I have a moral standing. I just not tied to one religion at the moment.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Do you think you're a good person? I believe so, yes. How do you know?

[Casey]

Because I always ask myself what I feel is morally right and I do that.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Is it possible that there's a moral standard outside of yourself.

[Casey]

You mean like pre written morals that we should follow, like your religion?

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Well, that or wherever. You get it. I'm just thinking about the criminal who would stand in front of the judge maybe and say what you just said. And that is judge. Every day I ask myself, am I living right? Ultimately it's not gonna matter if the judge thinks you're guilty. You're guilty no matter what you think.

[Casey]

Right. Well, I mean, there are laws that you have to obey.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

And what about moral laws though? Moral laws, Nobody's looking. Stuff you can get away with. Stuff where there aren't written laws about it. Do you think that there's a different set of morals in the universe? Um,

[Narrator / Announcer]

I.

[Casey]

That you're gonna have to. I believe in karma. So I believe if you do something wrong, morally wrong, even if no one catches you, eventually you're gonna have to pay for it.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Okay. Who's. I'm always curious, going this way, when it comes to karma, who is the cosmic accountant that's making sure that people get punished?

[Casey]

It's not necessarily that there's some higher being in my belief. Like I said, I'm not really with a religion. It's most almost probability it's just a power, it's not really a being. It's just the forces of nature kind of.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

No, that sounds like God to me.

[Casey]

In a sense it is. It's just I'm not exactly atheist. I just don't know which God I'd

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

like to call it yet. Okay.

[Casey]

You know what I mean?

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Is it perhaps a more specific question? Not what do I want to call God, but who is God?

[Casey]

Think that's fair?

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Yeah. And you don't know? No, I'd say so. Did you grow up in a religious home?

[Kevin]

Yes.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Yes.

[Casey]

Southern Baptist.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Southern Baptist. And who did they say God is?

[Casey]

A divine being that created the earth and all the things in it and controls all the things in it.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

And you don't think that's right?

[Casey]

I think it's right. I just didn't stick with that religion because there were some things that I was unsure about and there were some things in other religions that I thought were interesting.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Yeah. What were you unsure about when it comes to being a Southern Baptist?

[Casey]

The creation. Me, obviously, I go to tech. I like science. I kind of feel more towards the scientific creation and evolution.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Yeah.

[Casey]

But I can't really think of too many examples off the top of my head. Mostly it was just I saw other

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

things in other religions that I appreciated, like reincarnation karma.

[Casey]

Not necessarily reincarnation, but karma. And just.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Well, Christianity has karma in a sense that God will make sure that anything that's done that's wrong will get punished. So that aspect is in Christianity, isn't it?

[Casey]

Yes. I just. I didn't feel it. Like, when I talk to Christians and I go to church and things like that. I didn't feel that they believed in karma as I did. I didn't feel like their points of view of the topic agreed entirely with mine. So I'm at a point where I'm just looking around. Probably I will end up going back to Southern Baptist just because that's my roots. And if anything, it's probably what I feel strongest with.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Okay, tell me this is. Believe it or not, you and I have a lot in common. You don't know this, but we do. I was a lot like you many years ago because I didn't understand something. So I'd like to ask you. Tell me, what is the gospel?

[Casey]

The books written by.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

No. What is the gospel? The good news, the Christian gospel. Don't believe.

[Casey]

I know.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Okay, that might be a big. What's your first name? Casey. Okay, Casey. It's all right. Okay, Casey, this might be helpful. I'm going to ask you a tough question. Would you consider yourself to be a good person? Yes. Okay, I'm going to test that. How many lies have you told in your life?

[Nathan]

Mm.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

A few. A few. Okay, so if you tell a few lies, what does that make? If I told a few lies, you might call me a liar. Okay. How many things have you stolen in your life?

[Casey]

Never.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Okay. How many times have you taken God's name in vain?

[Casey]

I might have.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

A few. Blasphemy. Okay. How many times we talked about girls before? How many times have you lifted a woman on campus with lust? With sexual desire?

[Casey]

Sometimes.

[Nathan]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Okay. And we'll leave it there. We won't get into fornication. We won't get into pornography. Maybe we'll just leave it with looking, with lust. The Bible says you're going to die and you're going to give an account. The books will be open. So there you stand, naked before God. No attorneys, no parents, nothing. You and God, he knows every thought, every deed done in darkness, everything you should have done but didn't. All the times you had a meal and you didn't thank him. Would he find you innocent or guilty, Casey?

[Casey]

Well, again, that comes back to. That's the Christian God that you're speaking of. I don't like. I don't the things that you've named off that you feel are wrong does not agree with what I feel is wrong.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

But again, this comes back to it doesn't matter what the criminal thinks. The question is, what does the judge think? So if the Bible is true, okay, grant me that premise. If the Bible is true, if the God of the Bible is the only God, no other options. He's it. He's the creator. He's your maker. Those are his laws. Would he be innocent or guilty?

[Casey]

I would consider myself innocent because my beliefs are different than yours. I don't believe. I believe there could be more than one God. I believe there could be a Christian God. There could be, you know, there could be multiple gods. We each may see our own God when we come to him.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Setting that aside for a moment, my premise is this. If there is only one God and you stand before him and he knows everything you've done, innocent or guilty?

[Casey]

I may be guilty of a few things. That's for him to decide.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Right.

[Casey]

I do things as I feel best, day to day. I do what I feel is right, and I don't regret a single thing I've done. If I stand in front of him, if I have done wrong in choosing who I wish to believe, and I stand in front of your God and he deems me guilty and sends me to hell, then I have at least I can at least say I have done my best. I have done what I feel is right, day to day, moment to moment. I've done what I feel is right, and I deserve what I get. And I will burn in hell, and that's what I pay. At least I can say that I made the best decision I could, moment to moment.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

You want to go to hell?

[Casey]

I don't want to. But if I'm doing the best I feel I can and your God sends me to hell, what does that say about your God?

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

That he's just okay?

[Casey]

Then I deserve to go to hell? That's what it boils down to, Casey.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

What's the gospel? Tell me, what's the gospel? Now this is where the good news comes in. What is it?

[Casey]

You mean if I do all things right, I go to heaven?

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

No, you haven't. So you're in big trouble already.

[Casey]

But you're saying that's what the good news would be if I did do everything.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

How many years did you go to church, Casey?

[Casey]

I went to church. Went to summer Bible camp of years when I was younger. Didn't go to church on Sundays.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Okay, dude, the good News is Jesus Christ. You've heard his name. He's God. He came to this earth to die on a cross, to take the punishment he deserved. You deserve the wrath of the Father. Jesus took it on your behalf so that your sins can be forgiven. You've broken the law. Jesus paid your fine. And if you'll repent, apologize, put your trust in Jesus Christ, then the Bible says you'll be forgiven of your sins, and God will grant you everlasting life. That's the good news. You don't have to go to hell. God will save you and he'll take you to heaven based on what his son did. That's the good news of the gospel. Now, I know you're thinking about stuff here. You're going through campus and college and trying to figure these things out. I can't club you over the head and make you a Christian. But at least now, if nothing else, there's some clarity about what the Christian gospel is. We're lawbreakers. Jesus died for us and demonstrated his love. You've heard the verse. For God so loved the world, he gave his only begotten son. Whoever believes in him will not perish, but have everlasting life. The Christian gospel is that of good news. It does demand that you confess that all other gods are idols. They aren't true. They don't exist. There's only one true God and his son, Jesus Christ. And if you repent and put your trust in him, you'll go to heaven. That's the Christian gospel. So as you ponder things and try to figure it out, as you're on campus here now, at least you're dealing with what the Bible teaches. And now you know what the options are. Fair enough.

[Graduate Student]

Fair enough.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

All right, dude. Thanks for the chat. You're a gentleman. Thanks very much. Yeah. All right, man. See ya. It's Witness Wednesday on wretched radio.

[Narrator / Announcer]

No retreat. That's the name of Fortis Institute's spring match campaign, and here's why. The culture we live in right now has made it pretty clear it has very little interest in the true gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. We're being told to keep our faith quiet in public or to soften what we believe so it goes down easier. Fortas Institute has no intention of doing either one. We exist to advance the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, and this spring, we're doing it as loudly and as boldly as we know how. Your gift will help launch two new podcasts. It puts Todd Frill's new book, go serve your king. Into print through HarperCollins, and it puts the gospel back onto college campuses where it's least welcome and most need. Our goal is $250,000, and we're asking if you would prayerfully consider helping us get there. You can find out more right [e-mail]

[Promoter / Advertiser]

donate perhaps you've been wondering, is there a Christian university that isn't woke or that hasn't compromised on important biblical doctrines like, you know, the Age of the Earth? There is. It's the Masters University in Southern California. Beautiful campus, all of the athletics and activities that you've come to expect from universities. But it's more than that. The academic programs are most excellent. Preparing students for the future. The Washington Post just said number six for preparing students for the real world. All that plus the Master's university isn't woke and it is thoroughly biblical. Would you like to learn more? I encourage you to visit the Master's university at masters.edu wretched masters.edu Wretched thanks

[Narrator / Announcer]

for listening to Wretched Radio today. Look, here's something that I've noticed, and maybe you have too, but it's really easy for us to treat our faith sometimes like a category, as Sunday is Sunday, work is work, parenting is parenting, and somewhere in there you try to be a Christian, but it doesn't always feel feel like it's all connected. That's why Dr. Jon Krotz and his podcast Integrated is so incredibly important. Dr. Kratz is a pastor, he's an author, he's a biblical counselor, and he's a Fortis Institute fellow and the host of Integrated. And he is helping people see how Scripture speaks to every part of their life. Not just the spiritual stuff, but the practical, everyday how do I actually live this stuff out stuff? And if what we're doing at Fortis Institute has been a source of encouragement for you, I want to ask you to consider joining us as an ongoing monthly gospel partner. Help us continue producing content just like Integrated that connects the dots. Go to fortisinstitute.org right now and find out how to join us. Wretched Amazing Grace Amazing Gospel.

[Todd Friel]

Important Dates in Christian history 1206 Francis of Assisi renounces wealth and goes on to lead a band of poor friars preaching the simple life. The 13th century saw the rise of a number of monastic orders dedicated to simple living and social engagement. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Okay, here's my guy. He's sitting on a bench. He's got a backpack. There's a shocker and he's got red hair. My understanding is red hair in Great Britain is not a good thing. Not the same in the state of. But apparently in Great Britain, if you've got red hair, there's name for that. And they're not nice names, let's put it that way. On the. Oh, he looks like he might be an athletic sort of fellow. Let's see if we can chat with him. Hey, young man, while you're sitting killing time, could I talk to you on the radio for a minute? Sure. Cool. What's your first name?

[Nathan]

Nathan. Stu.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Nathan. Nice to meet you. Do you know what your first name means?

[Nathan]

No, I don't.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

I do. It means gift of God. Did you know that?

[Nathan]

I didn't.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

It's a Hebrew name. It's one of the few things I remember from studying Hebrew. Nathan is your name. It means gift of God.

[Nathan]

Cool, dude.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

What are you studying here at the campus?

[Nathan]

Computer science.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Computer. So you're a geek. You are a geek.

[Nathan]

I am.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Here's my question for you, Nathan. The big storm that went through Georgia, tons of rain. A lot of devastation, flooding. Some people died. Nathan, who do you think caused that rain to happen? Was there a God? A cosmic force? Nature? Who is the one responsible for all that rain?

[Nathan]

I'd have to say nature.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Nature. No. Hello. You don't have to stand there. Are you together, just hanging out? You'd have to say nature. So it just kind of happened all by itself. Cool. Do you believe that there is a God?

[Nathan]

I do.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Who do you think it is, Nathan?

[Nathan]

Couldn't tell you. I'd say there's a God, but I can't tell you who it is.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

So why do you think there is one?

[Nathan]

Just how I grew up.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Did you grow up in church? Okay, what kind of crew? Lots of stripes of Christians. So you're Catholic? So you believe in the Bible. So, Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Right. I got that. Look at me. Two today, Nathan. Father, Son and Holy Ghost. So would you be willing to say that that is who God is, Father, Son and Holy Ghost?

[Nathan]

I'd say so.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Cool. And you believe in that God? How come?

[Nathan]

Couldn't tell you, honestly.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Really? Maybe because you just grew up with him. Kind of went along with the program. How old are you now, Nathan?

[Nathan]

18.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

So you're a grown man. So now you should be figuring out if that's true or not, huh? Why would somebody like me want to believe what you believe? Can you give me a good reason to believe what you believe?

[Nathan]

Nope. I'd say just believe. Whatever.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Whatever? All right, you ready for some tough questions now?

[Kevin]

Sure.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

These are gonna get dicier. Nathan, would you consider yourself to be a good person?

[Nathan]

I would.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

You're sure? I'm gonna quiz you.

[Nathan]

Alright.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Alright. Nathan, how many lies have you told in your life? Life?

[Nathan]

Oh, countless.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Countless. Okay, so if I told countless lies, what would you call me?

[Nathan]

Say you're a normal person.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Well, I don't think I disagree with you, but the name that you would give to me rhymes with pants on fire.

[Casey]

All right.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

A liar.

[Nathan]

A liar.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

You tell a bunch of lies, you're a liar. All right, Nathan, how many things do you think you've stolen in your life?

[Nathan]

A couple.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Couple. All right, Only one thing. And that would make you a what?

[Nathan]

Thief.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Thief. Right. Okay. Little trickier thought. Life. What goes on in your brain. Have you ever just been really mad at somebody torqued driving down the road? You think they're a moron for being such a terrible driver?

[Nathan]

Absolutely.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Okay. Because God sees what's going on in your brain and we call that murder of the heart. Now, it's not as bad as committing the act, but it's still bad because you've had a hateful, murderous thought in your brain. Okay, so have you ever taken God's name in vain? I have not. Ever?

[Nathan]

Nope.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Ever and ever?

[Nathan]

Nope.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Not an omg. None of that monkey business?

[Nathan]

Nope.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

You're sure?

[Nathan]

Yep.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

All right, so you're good to go on that one. All right. Has God always been your number one priority in life?

[Nathan]

No.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Okay. Because that would be the first commandment right there. All right, now you don't have to answer this one, especially with the girls standing here, but if you have ever had thoughts about other people that were, well, let's say either R or X rated, or if mom or dad knew about him, it would be kind of embarrassing, that would also be a strike against you as a good person. All right.

[Graduate Student]

All right.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

So, dude, I just asked you like five questions to see if you're a good person, and you confess to me that you're a liar, a thief, a murderer, and potentially an adulterer at heart. Yikes. You're sure you're a good person? Okay, so if you died and you stood before God and he knew the books and he knew everything that you've ever done, ever, every deed done in darkness, everything, you failed to do all those things by not having him first in your life, would he say that you, Nathan, are an innocent man or a guilty man?

[Nathan]

I would have to say innocent.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

How come?

[Nathan]

Because I don't know that's hard to say. I don't know.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Well, if you've broken the laws, that is true. You'd be guilty.

[Nathan]

I guess so.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

I know I'd be guilty way more than you, by the looks of you. But I'd be guilty and you'd be guilty.

[Nathan]

I guess so.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Okay, so if God is just this Father, Son and Holy Ghost is just, and he hates sin and he's got to punish lawbreakers because he doesn't like it when criminals get away with breaking the law. We don't like that either, do we? When we watch the news and we see the bad guy get away, what would God do with you, Nathan?

[Nathan]

Probably punishment.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Okay. Heaven or hell for you?

[Nathan]

Couldn't tell you. I think that'd be up to him.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

I agree. But we could probably conclude it wouldn't be a good day for Nathan.

[Nathan]

No, probably not.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Probably not a good day. All right, now, dude, you Father, Son and Holy Ghost. So the Father's gonna judge you, send you to hell if you've broken his laws. Tell me, what did the Son do so you don't have to go to hell?

[Nathan]

Recap.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

No, tell me what he did 2,000 years ago. Here's what we got. Here's our situation. Nathan's a lawbreaker. You're on trial. You're guilty. You've got an infinite debt to pay. Jesus did something 2000 years ago to pay your fine. What did he do?

[Nathan]

All right, actually, you know what? I have to go.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Okay, real quick. You'll catch up to it. What did Jesus do 2000 years ago so you don't have to go to hell? You know, this Gave his life. That's right. He died for you, a sinner. So that you don't have to go to hell. You need to repent and put your trust in him. All of your sins forgiven so that you don't die and go to hell. Fair enough.

[Nathan]

Fair enough.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

What do you think about this today?

[Nathan]

All right.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

All right. I appreciate it, Nathan. See ya. All right. Goodbye. Nathan. Had to go chase after the chick. Who did? I just. I think it. I think it was Johnny Hunt. That I just heard at the deeper conference. Johnny Hunt just said something. He's the president of the Southern Baptist Convention. If you've never heard the fire and brimstone preaching of Johnny Hunt, I agree with him. He said most people in this country, they've heard parts of the story, they just need you to put it together for them. And it's very, very true. This. You know, this kid, he knows Father, Son and Holy Spirit, but doesn't believe in him, but that's his God, but he doesn't know who it is. And Jesus on a cross, the whole. It's just a hash for them, and you need to help put it together for them. And you can. It's really honest. I. If I ever get this book published, this is the. What I think is the biggest, if you want to use marketing terms, target market. There is in the country, people who went to church as a kid but don't understand the Gospel or they've had some sort of Christian experience going to a Christian camp or the football outreach thing, but they never really understood it and they need you to clear it up for them. Most people in this country fit that category. So if you're an odds kind of guy or gal, and it's like, well, who should I go witness to where there's a good chance that they're confused? Answer pretty much anybody in this country. So please find yourself a fishing hole and it might even be your neighborhood. Could you start up a Bible study in your neighborhood? I tell you this with okay, pride is a sin. With glee, with delight. Okay, I'm going to tell you the story about a woman. I don't want to use her name, but let's just say that I'm married to her. She was trying to figure out something that besides being a part of this ministry and supporting this ministry and doing this ministry besides this, she wanted to figure out, okay, what can I do directly. And she thought it through and pondered this and pondered that, and then finally decided, neighborhood Bible study. Neighborhood Bible study. And even though it turns out here in the south, there's a lot of neighborhood Bible studies, but I gotta tell you something, they might as well just be called coffee clutches, because that's basically what they are. I was in like a Starbucks or a Caribou. I walked up to the table of women who are. They've got their Bibles, open all the different pages, because basically they just pulled up a table, ordered their latte frappe, and they were just sitting there chatting. So when I walked up to the table and said, hey, ladies, what are you studying? What? What? You've got Bibles. What are you studying? Oh, well, we haven't gotten that far yet. Big a little dog a little. Big a little dog, a little. And that's what a lot of neighborhood Bible studies are. So why don't you compete with a good one and start doing your networking? And that's what this woman that I happen to know and live with, who I happen to be married to to did. How many people are attending it? Five. Five. Is that a huge success? Absolutely. And it doesn't matter if it was five or even one. And her. And I believed her. She said, if one shows up, I'll be happy if I can just explain it to 1. What is your bag, Christian? Get on it. I'm telling you. Yeah, you're gonna get shot down once in a while. Yes, you will be sick to your stomach, nervous. It can be considered like a weight loss program. I'm telling you, it'll make you nervous and sick to your stomach. It is scary.

[Narrator / Announcer]

Whoop dee doo.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Do it. And the joy that you will get out of it. And if somebody, even one gets saved, even one gets it. Besides that, you're not called to do the saving. You're just called to do the preaching. So please figure out your deal and get on it, would you? Because everywhere I look here on the campus, I just. They're just lost. And they're. And they're at such a ripe age to figure it out. I know George Barna will say this or that statistic about the college kids. They've lost their faith. Well, they didn't lose it. They never had it in the first place. And my belief is that most of these kids are at least willing to try to figure it out. We'll keep going on a witness Wednesday on wretched radio.

[Narrator / Announcer]

And it's now time for your daily Fortis news break, a production of Fortis Institute. Good news on two fronts from the Trump Justice Department. Acting Attorney General Todd Blanch repealed three Biden era gun regulations, including the stabilizing brace rule and the expanded definition of who legally qualifies as a firearm dealer. Rules that effectively turned law abiding gun owners into criminal. Through bureaucratic wordplay without a single vote In Congress, American K12 schools spent $1 trillion in 2024. And in exchange, test scores went down and enrollment dropped by a million students over the past decade. Meanwhile, the states that are actually showing improvement, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Tennessee, West Virginia, are the same ones aggressively expanding school choice. Florida now has 53% of its students attending a school school they actually chose. Texas launched a billion dollar education savings account program and received 274,000 applications in year one. California and New York responded to all of this by moving to restrict choice further. And their senators introduced legislation to eliminate the federal scholarship tax credit entirely. Gallup released numbers last month the share of American men between 18 and 29 who call religion very important. Jordan jumped from 28% to 42% in just two years. That's a 14% swing that erased nearly a quarter century of decline in about 24 months. And if you've been paying attention to culture, that's not entirely surprising. The whole anti God experiment that was supposed to produce enlightened, liberated progress, what it actually produced was a meaning crisis in a generation of young men who are not okay. And apparently a whole lot of them have figured that out. And from Australia comes a story that illustrates exactly where the assisted suicide movement is leading. 26 year old Anneliese Holland, who suffers from a debilitating autoimmune condition, plans to end her life through assisted dying this year. She was once pro life until her friend Lily chose assisted death under Australia's volunteering dying law. And Anneliese held her friend's hand while it happened. Now she has a doctor who describes herself as passionate and loving, and the two of them just won a joint woman of the year award. Yeah, the culture doesn't just permit this path anymore. It is celebrating it. Finally, European researchers have invented a fake disease, if I can pronounce this correct, fixanimania. They published fabricated studies about it and then watched as Gemini, Perplexity, copilot, and eventually ChatGPT all reported it as a real medical condition. The fake researcher they created worked at a fake university in a fake California city. And the papers themselves included the line quote, this paper is entirely made up. None of that stopped any of the AIs. That wraps up today's Fortis News break. I'm Jimmy Hicks. If you want more, you can download Fortis or sign up to become a Fortis Insider for exclusive daily content, both of which you can [e-mail] and over. You can subscribe to Fortis News on your favorite podcast app in order to get these updates daily. And until tomorrow, go serve your king.

[Todd Friel]

Books of the Bible. Nehemiah is the continuing story of exiles returning from Babylonian captivity. In this book, the people rebuild the walls of Jerusalem and renew the covenant under the leadership of Nehemiah. Despite opposition, the wall is rebuilt in 52 days. And it's perceived as a work wrought by God. God will bless that work which brings him honor. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

And there's a young man who. Okay, he's Southern Baptist or Presbyterian, I'm just guessing by the haircut, who is sitting and eating a bag of crunchy things with cheese on them. Correct, young man? Yes. All right. What's your, what's your first name? Young man.

[Kevin]

Kevin.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Kevin, may I talk to you on the radio for a minute? I want to ask you a couple of questions, okay? First of all, what are you eating in that non Ziploc bag?

[Kevin]

Cheez its.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Jeez, its dude and good for. But you're skinny as a rail. Do you know there's enough msg? We could bury you and dig you up in about a thousand years and you'd still look pretty much the same because of all the MSG in there, I guess. I didn't come here to scold you about your eating habits. What kind of home did you grow up in?

[Kevin]

Well, my dad's from Delaware. My mom's from Chicago.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Yeah, Religious home. What kind of religion was in the house?

[Kevin]

Methodist.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

I wouldn't have picked Methodist. All right, Kevin, I'm gonna quiz you on your Methodism. What would John Wesley. He's the founder of Methodism, you remember that? What would he say is the big point? What's Methodism all about?

[Kevin]

What's Methodism all about?

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

You're a soft spoken guy, you know that?

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

You've been told that.

[Graduate Student]

All right.

[Kevin]

Yes.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Well, speak up a little bit and tell me what Methodism is.

[Kevin]

I don't.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

What do you mean you don't know? I know, and I'm not a Methodist.

[Kevin]

You sound like you're a religious radio thing.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

How do you know I'm a religious radio?

[Kevin]

You ask me questions about religion.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Doesn't anybody ever talk to you about religion? It's okay these days. It's not against the law. Right?

[Kevin]

Right. I've never had anyone ask me that question.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Really. Okay, you're 19 years old. Has anybody ever tried to witness to you? Has any Christian ever come up to you and said, hey, I want to try to convert you? Has that happen?

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Yeah. Really? And why did they. What did they. What did they tell you? What was the reason they said you should become a Christian?

[Kevin]

Pretty much. I mean, the only ones that really tried to me are like the people over at Philips arena, you know, that stand out there and say everything's all right. Yeah, yeah, pretty much.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

No, but a guy like me walking up to you and going, hey, I want to talk to you about spiritual things. Anybody ever do that with you? No.

[Kevin]

No, not really.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

All right, so what is the big message of method? Come on. Come on. Did you ever go to church?

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Well, what'd they tell you? Hating this, aren't you?

[Kevin]

Yes.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

All right, I'm gonna ask you a different question. You ready for this? Kevin? Would you consider yourself to be a Good person. Yes or no? Yes. All right, I'm gonna test you. I'm gonna give you a quiz. Ready? The Ten Commandment quiz. Ready. How many lies have you told in your life, Kevin?

[Kevin]

A lot.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Give. I don't know. A lot. All right. A lot. A lot. Okay. So, Kevin, if you just met me and I told you that I've told a lot of lies, what name would you give to me? What would you call me?

[Kevin]

A liar.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Right. So are you a liar? Yes. Alrighty. How many things have you stolen in your life, Kevin?

[Kevin]

Like, just little things?

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Doesn't matter. It's not the object that's so important. It's about your heart.

[Kevin]

I don't steal a lot.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Money from your parents, from a sibling, downloading music.

[Kevin]

I did a little bit of that when I was back, when it was free, but I don't do it now.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Okay, but you've stolen something in your life, right? Yeah. All right. So with that, what would that make you? If you've stolen something, that would make you a thief. Attaboy. All right. Gonna get a little more personal. And I can tell you want that because you're enjoying this so much. All right, Kevin, how many times estimate, do you think that you've looked at a woman and had a des. A lust. A fantasy about a woman? Nobody saw it, nobody knew about it. Just you. But you've lusted in your heart.

[Kevin]

I'd say quite a few times.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

All right. All right. So, my Methodist friend, you know that the Bible says it is appointed unto man once to die, and then judgment. You die someday, God's gonna kill you, because that's how we die. God ends our life. You stand before God and it's judgment time. The books are open on Kevin's life. He seen all the lies. He's seen all the lusting. He's seen all the stealing. Kevin, would God say that you're an innocent man or a guilty man?

[Graduate Student]

Guilty.

[Kevin]

But, I mean, no one's perfect.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

I agree, but that's irrelevant. Okay? A criminal standing before a judge can't save a judge. Other people speed. Other people do bad things. It's irrelevant. You're standing before a gun. You're guilty. So here's the question. What should God do with a guilty sinner named Kevin? Should he take him to heaven or should he send them to hell?

[Kevin]

I think. I mean, like I said, nobody's perfect. But if we try our hardest to be the best we can, we should go to heaven.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Let me reason with you. You're standing before a judge on earth. And you've broken the laws, lots of them, repeatedly. And you say, but, judge, I've tried really hard. What's the judge gonna say to you?

[Kevin]

You're going to prison.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Right on. What would God say to you?

[Kevin]

You're going to hell.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

You're going to hell, you worker of iniquity. I never knew. Well, everybody should go to hell, right? But this is where the Methodist part comes in. Here's our tension, Kevin. We got ourselves a courtroom drama going on, a legal drama. And you've watched enough lawyer stories on tv. There's a criminal standing before a judge who's broken the laws. And because the judge is just. He can't just go, forget about it. Go ahead, go away. You're fine. He couldn't do that because he wouldn't be just. And God can't dismiss sins because that would make him unjust. So God must punish everybody who has broken their laws. That includes you and me and that guy and those people over there. He must punish everybody because he is just. And the foundation of his throne is righteousness and justice. And he's not going to let anybody get away with murder or lying or stealing or blasphemy or anything. But God is rich in mercy, and he wants to save sinners from going to hell. Now we got tension going on. God's got to punish sinners, but he'd like to offer mercy. So what did God do so that justice could be satisfied, so that sinners could be forgiven and set free and go to heaven to be with him? What did God do for you, Kevin, so you don't have to go to hell?

[Kevin]

He sacrificed his son, Jesus Christ.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

That's the good news of the gospel. That's the story of Methodism right there. The good news of the gospel is Jesus, the God man, died for you. A sinner rose from the dead, defeated death, and he offers you forgiveness and everlasting life. He doesn't just give it to everybody. You have got to respond to the good news of the gospel with the R word. Do you know what the R word is?

[Kevin]

Religion?

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Repentance.

[Graduate Student]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

It's not about religion. It's about repentance. God wants you to. He doesn't want you to join a club and do a bunch of good works because he already did the good works for you. He wants you to repent. He wants you to recognize, wow, God should have thrashed me. God should squash me like a bug. But instead, he died for me, the good man, Jesus, dying for me, the bad man. And he offers Me, forgiveness and everlasting life. When we recognize that, when we get a glimpse of the goodness of God, it should cause us to want to go. I'm sorry, I have done wrong. I've been living for myself. I've broken all your laws, please forgive me. And you turn from your sins, which is what repentance is. It's not becoming perfect, but it's having a new attitude. And it's putting your trust in Jesus Christ, the only true and living God. The Bible says when you respond to the good news of the gospel by repenting and trusting his son, all of the goodness that Jesus did, by living a perfect life, keeping all the laws you couldn't, by taking the punishment you deserve, that'll all be credited to your account. And God will take you to heaven because of the good works of Jesus on behalf of the bad man. Kevin. That is what Methodism teaches. That is what the Bible teaches. Now here's the question, Kevin, is that true? Then here's the next question and I'll leave you. Alright? Have you repented and put your trust in Jesus Christ? Yes. So you can point to a day where you realized you weren't a good man like you told me. You're a sinful man, you're a bad man, you're a dirty man and you deserve God's wrath. But you realize that Jesus died for you and you've turned from your sins and you have put your trust in him. You died yourself and he has made you born again. Okay, dude, I'm not your judge, okay? I'm leaving now. You know, and God knows, your friends probably know too. If I gathered all your pals around and your family around and I said, tell me, what's the most important thing in Kevin's life? What would they say? I'd say they would. They'd say, he's living for Jesus Christ. But I asked you earlier, I said, what do you want it to say on your tombstone? And you said, I don't know, I'm figuring it out. Shouldn't you have said, well, I'm living for the Lord and I want to glorify him and I want to be obedient to him.

[Kevin]

You're asking me about mechanical engineering?

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Alright, dude, the Bible says that unless a man is born again, he will not see the kingdom of God. You don't die to yourself physically, but you die to yourself spiritually, if you will. You stop thinking I'm a good guy. You humble yourself and God saves you. And you know it. And you don't think you're a good man? You think you're a forgiven man by a good God. So do what the Bible says, Kevin. Examine yourself. I'm not your examiner. I'm a stranger. Examine yourself. See if you are in the truth and make your calling and election sure. If you don't know any, you can't honestly say, I know that I've repented and put my trust in Jesus. I am his son. He has got me in his hand and when I die, I'm going to be with him because of what Jesus did. If you don't know that for sure, then please make today the day of your salvation. He offers you mercy, repent and trust his Son and He will save you. All right, fair enough.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

We'll continue on Witness Wednesday on Wretched Radio.

[Narrator / Announcer]

You ever been sitting in a sermon and your pastor drops a Greek word like he actually expects you to know what it means? Well, in the original Greek, the word metanoia, and you're just nodding along like you totally followed that? Well, what if you actually could follow it? Our resource It's Not Greek to Me is a basic Greek primer that teaches you to read your New Testament in the original language. It's not seminary level memorization. It's just enough to understand what your pastor is talking about, to get more out of commentaries and footnotes and do your own word studies so you know exactly what God intended to communicate. There's 10 lessons. It's perfect for individuals and families in Sunday school classes and homeschoolers or just anyone preparing for a more serious study to help the road. This is the language that God himself chose to write your New Testament and learning it, even the basics, will change the way you study scripture. It's not Greek to me. It's streaming for free right now on Fortis. Download the app where you download apps on your smartphone, your smart TV, or just simply go to fortisplus.org remember when the craziest cultural ideas stayed in dystopian novels? Yeah. Those days are over. We're living in the brave new world now. And it showed up faster than anyone expected it to. Social media didn't just change how we communicate, it changed how everyone thinks. And if you're not ready as a Christian to defend what you believe about gender and sexuality and race and entertainment and a dozen other hot button issues, you're gonna get steamrolled. Worldview 2 picks up where the first one left off. Todd Friel and Dr. Nathan Buznitz tackled 22 more issues through a biblical lens. Critical race theory, modesty, persecution, environmentalism, secular entertainment and more. The stuff you're actually seeing in the headline lines in hearing at your dinner table. Because the Christian worldview is under assault and, I don't know, isn't going to cut it anymore. Wretched Worldview 2 is available in streaming right now for free on Fortis. You can download the app on your smartphone, on your smart TV, or simply visit fortisplus.org Most men don't make one big decision that takes them off course. No, it happens gradually and eventually you look up and you realize. Realize I've been coasting for years. Well, Dr. Adam Tyson has created Walk Like a Man. It's available now on Fortis Plus. Dr. Tyson knows that's the story for way too many guys right now. And so he gets into God's word and he lays out what it actually looks like to walk with wisdom and live with real conviction. And the way he teaches it, you'll walk away from every episode knowing exactly what to do and why it matters. This is biblical teaching that puts solid ground under your feet and gives you a compassion. Clear path forward. It's streaming right now with new episodes dropping every Monday on Fortis for free. Download the Fortis app right now. Wherever you download apps on your smartphone, your smart TV, or just go to fortisplus.org and walk like a man.

[Todd Friel]

God has given the church many gifts for the building up of the body. One gift is exhortation, the spiritual ability to encourage, comfort and admonish God's people. Whether God's people are oppressed, confused, or in error, God has provided the gift of exhortation to comfort, urge, and correct them. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Alrighty. It's Witness Wednesday here on Wretched Radio, and there's a young man who's sitting in the shade who's actually looking at a DVD cover and I wonder, hey, young man, can I sit next to you and chat with you for a moment on the radio while you're sitting and enjoying the shade?

[Graduate Student]

Yeah, sure.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

All right. What year are you here at Georgia Tech?

[Graduate Student]

I'm a grad student.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

I'm actually. What are you doing here? Get out of here.

[Graduate Student]

I'm trying.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

What do you mean? Oh, so you're a grad, but have you graduated? No. Oh, so you got one year. One more year to go.

[Graduate Student]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

And what do you want to do when you grow up?

[Graduate Student]

Hopefully work for a research and development company.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

To develop what?

[Graduate Student]

Polymers, coatings.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

So plastic stuff that. All right. I want to go Back to good, bad, and the ugly.

[Graduate Student]

Okay.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

All right, here's my question for you. You ready? Which one are you? The good, the bad, or the ugly?

[Graduate Student]

I think I still need some time to determine that.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Really?

[Graduate Student]

Hopefully the good, but I don't know. Could be the bad.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Let's do the test. How many. How many lies have you told in your life?

[Graduate Student]

Good question.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Okay, so if you've me told quite a bit of lies, if I told quite a bit of lies, what name would you give to me?

[Graduate Student]

A liar.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

How many things have you stolen in your life?

[Graduate Student]

Some, I guess.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

What does that make you?

[Graduate Student]

A stealer.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

If you're from Pittsburgh. Otherwise, you'd be a stealer. Thief. A thief. Right. Okay, let's try this one. Lusting. Looking at a woman. Sexual thoughts, sexual desire. Yeah. How many times today?

[Graduate Student]

Probably a few.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

So you're a luster at heart, you're an adulterer at heart. Can we say that?

[Nathan]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

All right, how's about as a child, were you a good child? Were you a perfect child, or were you naughty like the rest of us?

[Graduate Student]

I had my times that I was naughty, I guess, overall, hopefully good.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

But have you ever been around a child? Yes. They're naughty.

[Graduate Student]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

So are you. Okay.

[Casey]

All right.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

So there's. There's four commandments right there. Okay. All right. By your own admission, you're a liar, you're a thief, an adulterer at heart, who is a naughty kid.

[Graduate Student]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Okay. Are you good, bad, or ugly?

[Graduate Student]

Guess? Bad. But it depends on who you're comparing to.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

So we just did the Ten Commandments. Yeah.

[Graduate Student]

But only one person was ever able to, you know, satisfy perfection. So.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

And that person was Jesus Christ.

[Graduate Student]

So, I mean, if you're. If you're comparing just to one person, then, yeah, everybody's bad. But I think, you know, overall, there's a different test that, you know, humans can.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

What would the test be?

[Graduate Student]

I mean, I guess that would be the ultimate test of being perfection. But in real life, we're not. We're not made to be perfect.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

So, okay, let's say right now, God drops that crane on your head. Kills you. You die.

[Nathan]

Boom.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

You're transported right before the throne room of God. He's on the bench. He is the just judge of all the world.

[Graduate Student]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

And he opens up the books on you. So he knows everything you've thought, everything you've done. The books are open on you. Would you be innocent or guilty before God?

[Graduate Student]

We'd be guilty, but hopefully he would, you know, done enough that his grace would Provide for a little, you know, to make up for the things that I haven't done.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Let me share this thought with you, okay? If a criminal said that to a judge, let's go back to an earthly courtroom. Yeah, pretty good parallel here. And the criminal said, okay, Judge, I know that I've filled in the blank with a crime. I've murdered, I've stolen whatever, I beat up the dog or whatever it is, okay? But I, I gave $20 to the Red Cross and I helped a little old lady across the street. The judge would probably scratch his head and say, that has nothing to do with this court case.

[Kevin]

Correct.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Your good deeds, or what you think are good deeds have no bearing on the case. And furthermore, you're trying to persuade me and almost bribe me with your good deeds. Correct?

[Graduate Student]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

So let's go back. Back to the heavenly courtroom.

[Graduate Student]

Well, hopefully, you know, yes, we're not going to be able to do every good deed in this world, but the ones that we don't do and that we should get punished for, I think that's what Jesus Christ came here and was able to die on the sin for our sins so that he kind of paid some of that, you know, the penalties for us. But still, at the same time, we do have to do as much as we can. You know, what the, what that standard is, I don't think we know. I mean, that's why you got to try to do as much as you can.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

But let me, Let me run this by you, see what you think of this. And this is going to be very, very harsh up front. So just be patient with me because I would suggest to you that the resolution is better than the one maybe you're wrestling with right now, okay? There is nothing inside of you that is presently good before. Just hang in there with me. It's called total depravity. Now, it doesn't mean that you don't ever do a nice thing or a good thing or a helpful thing for society. But here's the problem. Your members, your motives, your thoughts, your desires, everything about you is tainted with sin. Okay? So imagine it. Maybe this is kind of a rough parallel. Adolf Hitler, we all agree, evil, wicked rock guy, Adolf Hitler brings a dozen roses to a woman and says, here, look. What? To a Jewish woman, he murdered everybody in his family. In her family. And says, here is a dozen roses.

[Graduate Student]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

What an offering that would be, huh? The roses are beautiful. They're very nice. They smell beautiful. Yeah, but they're coming from Adolf Hitler. Correct. You do nice things. You do good things, things. But they're coming from a guy who's corrupt. I'm not calling Adolf Hitler.

[Graduate Student]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

I'm saying you offer something to God and say, look at the good deeds I've done to him. They're not good at all. Because they're coming from this guy who's at heart wicked and corrupt.

[Graduate Student]

Okay, Right.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

That's pretty harsh, isn't is?

[Graduate Student]

But I believe at the same time that, you know, as a human being that believes in God, in Christ, that, you know, there's the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, so. And the spirit can live within us. Now, obviously this earthly body we have, I think is corrupt because it's made of this world. But there's a spirit that does live inside of us that, that has, you know, good, good inside it, that can overcome the evil tendencies that our body has.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

Right.

[Graduate Student]

But, you know, I agree with.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

But the question is, how does that spirit get into you? Here's what I think where a lot of people stumble on the whole Christian religion idea. They get out of the starting blocks wrong. When I asked you if you're a good person, a bad person, or an ugly person, you were trying to figure it out. Here's what the Bible says. We are all by nature sinful and corrupt and unclean. All of our righteous teach are like filthy rags. Everybody falls short of God's standard. So God looks down at us from his vantage point, comparing us to himself, which is perfection, which is revealed in the Ten Commandments. And he looks at us and we are wicked, awful people. And there is nothing we can do that is pleasing to him in and of ourselves. And until an individual arrives at that place where they agree with that, not only am I not good, I am wicked, awful, bad. I think they're starting in the wrong place. Because once you get to that point, then all of a sudden that idea of Jesus Christ, the God man like you rightly said the Trinity, you got that exactly right. Dying for somebody like me is suddenly almost makes you want to gasp for air. Because the fact that God would do that for a sinner like me is beyond my comprehension. And then when we come to him, lowly and broken, confessing and turning from our sins and putting our trust in Jesus without confessing any goodness of our own, but calling out to God for mercy, he then takes the goodness of Jesus. Here's the theological thought for you. Jesus practiced active and passive obedience. Passive obedience was when he was beaten on the cross and hung up to die, but his active obedience was living a Perfect life for three decades, keeping every law that you and I. He never lusted, he never lied, he never dishonored his parents. Perfect. That goodness, because of his act of obedience gets credited to your account too. So not only will you be seen as not guilty when you repent and trust the Savior, but you'll be credited with the righteousness of Jesus Christ himself. You will be seen as holy and righteous before God so that any goodness that we have is because of what Jesus did and nothing that we do. Okay, two more theological terms for you. You're a smart guy. You can handle this. Justification, sanctification. Justification is a one time declarative act outside of your body. You repent and trust Jesus. You turn from your wicked ways, throw yourself at his mercy and trust him for your eternity. And he will judge, justify you. One time declared in heaven, nothing. You have done nothing. Your faith, your repentance, is merely a 911 call. He does the rescuing and the saving. Once you are made his child, once you are justified, then he begins a work inside of you. He comes and dwells in you and then he begins to clean you up on the inside. But even the cleaning up process, you don't get credit for because he's doing it inside of you. That way he gets all the credit and he gets all the praise and he gets all the glory. Because if it's something that you kind of do and he makes up the rest, it's kind of a Mormon idea or a Catholic idea. You don't do your best and Jesus does the rest. You've done nothing but bad and Jesus has done it all. Here's my question for you. That question I asked about being good, bad and ugly. It's a really important question and it's kind of a loaded one. And maybe you weren't thinking in these terms, but it's my experience and I think the Bible backs this up. If a man thinks that he's good, he has not yet been saved because you've got to come to bed recognizing you're bad and ugly. So my question for you, young man. Have you come to God confessing you're bad and ugly? There's nothing good in and of yourself. And you've turned from your sins and you put your trust in Jesus. Have you done that?

[Nathan]

I have.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

When did you do that?

[Graduate Student]

I did it. I. I guess you could say about teenage years. I was 15 and I went to a camp and basically I grew up in church, so I thought I was a Christian. But then I think that's the time I decided it's more than just something you read in words.

[Interviewer / Host (likely Todd Friel)]

It's true. Yeah, well, dude, maybe just examine your heart, see what's going on. It's good to do a little checkup once in a while. Okay. And until tomorrow, go serve your king.