Witness Wednesday: Purpose In Life, Intelligent Design, Truly Born Again

Summary

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Wretched Radio with Todd Friel

Witness Wednesday: Purpose In Life, Intelligent Design, Truly Born Again
Date: April 29, 2026

Episode Overview

In this Witness Wednesday episode, Todd Friel heads to the campus of Georgia Tech to converse with three students—Sammy, Kylie, and Kimani—about life’s biggest questions: the purpose of existence, the argument for intelligent design, and the true meaning of being "born again." The conversations blend apologetics, gospel explanation, and candid questioning, all with Todd’s signature wit and earnestness. The episode explores how young adults approach questions about life, faith, science, and salvation, with an emphasis on clarity about the core of Christianity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sammy: Purpose, Evolution, and the Gospel

Segments: [01:52]–[08:52], [15:11]–[23:01]

Purpose in Life

• Todd: Asks 19-year-old electrical engineering student Sammy, “What is the purpose of life?”
• Sammy: Unsure, admits he lives to "make the best of it" and appreciates the beauty of the world but sees no ultimate purpose ([03:03]).
  • “I’m just here to make the best of it … enjoy it." – Sammy [03:03]

Creation vs. Evolution

• Todd: Uses engineering as a springboard for intelligent design.
  • “You know there’s a designer because it is designed. I think it’s that simple.” – Todd [06:02]
• Sammy: Finds evolution most reasonable, citing infinite time allowing unlikely events.
  • “Given an infinite amount of time this happened, because I think all scenarios would end up happening.” – Sammy [05:16]
• Todd: Counters: Time and chance are not causal powers; design requires a designer.

Morality and Worldviews

• Sammy’s values are shaped by familial discussions and personal comfort: “As long as I live my life with values that make it worth living.” [07:31]
• Todd’s Socratic approach leads Sammy to reflect on whether mere happiness is sufficient.

What is the Gospel?

• Gospel explained: Todd unfolds the "bad news" (God’s perfect justice, human sinfulness), leading to the "good news" (Christ’s substitutionary atonement).
  • “God exists...His character is perfection. He’s holy, he’s righteous, he’s just...He must punish lawbreakers.” – Todd [08:52], [16:37]
  • The courtroom analogy: If God is truly just, everyone—by his standard—stands guilty: “If he held everyone to this super high standard, I don’t know if any of us would make it.” – Sammy [16:37]

The Heart of Christianity

• Todd’s summary: “God in flesh came to this earth to die, to rescue you. That’s good news...more than that, you can actually be brought into an intimate relationship with the Creator of the universe.” [22:42]
• Call to response: Todd challenges Sammy to consider his soul with urgency, stressing it’s more than just “escaping hell”—it’s about knowing and being known by God ([24:00-25:17]).

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2. Kylie: Intelligent Design, Christianity, and Being Born Again

Segments: [30:02]–[38:25], [44:24]–[50:09]

Neuroscience and Design

• Todd: Engages neuroscience student Kylie in a discussion highlighting the complexity and interdependence of biological systems.
• Kylie: Affirms some openness to intelligent design: “I agree. I think there is a higher power.” [33:55]
• She identifies as a Christian but admits uncertainty when challenged to explain why the Christian God is the “ultimate creator.” [35:19]

Why Christianity?

• Todd: Contrasts two categories of religion:
  1. Works-Based: “Do good things and maybe, maybe you’ll experience a good afterlife.”
  2. Biblical Christianity: “You can’t do enough good—Jesus did it for you.”
  • “This one says, no, you can’t work, but Jesus did.” – Todd [36:56]
  • Kylie responds: “I think everyone makes mistakes...how you come back for them...” [38:25]

Gospel and the Law

• Todd brings the conversation into God’s courtroom: “He should send us to hell. That’s what he should do. He should. Because that’s what’s just.” [45:44]
• Gospel explained again, emphasizing forgiveness only through Christ’s atonement.

Born Again

• Todd: “Unless a woman is born again, she will not see the kingdom of God. Did you catch that?” [48:03]
• Kylie: Interprets being born again as “coming with a new belief system… believing in God, repenting, like, following his beliefs and his way of living.” [48:09]
• Todd: Refines: “It means basically dying to self...repent and put your trust in Jesus.”

Memorable Moment

• Todd’s joyful assertion: “God wants you. He actually wants to be in a relationship with sinners…He wants your love. He wants you.” [48:46]
• Kylie says “Yes,” when asked if she would embrace repentance and faith today ([50:08]).

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3. Kimani: Faith and the Football Team

Segments: [50:43]–[54:17]

Faith on the Field

• Todd observes that football players are more often knowledgeable about Christianity—Kimani confirms this.
  • “It helps a lot of football players…they lean on God to help them fill that void.” – Kimani [51:23]

Explaining the Gospel

• Kimani struggles for clarity at first: “How I look at the gospel is words from the past that fill a void from today’s feelings.” [51:50]
• When prompted with a hypothetical (bleeding-out/deathbed scenario), Kimani emphasizes “Turn your life over. Everything you do, include God in it…You have to repent.”
  • “You have to repent…But you have to repent. That’s the way God wanted to go about life.” – Kimani [52:55]
• On assurance of salvation: “If you continuously commit the same sin, knowing this is sin, he won’t forgive you at some point.” Refers to Hebrews 10:26-27. [53:07]
• Todd confirms: “Are you this convinced that Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, the life? That if somebody does not repent and trust in him, they’re not going to heaven.” Kimani replies, “101%. I feel like if God said that and quoted that, then he mean that.” [53:48]

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Highlights & Notable Quotes

• On Evolution and Design:
  “You know there’s a designer because it is designed. I think it’s that simple...Your eye is more sophisticated than a watch. I don’t think it could have happened all by itself.” – Todd Friel [06:02]
• On God’s Justice:
  “God is all about justice, and he’s going to have a day of justice where he brings everybody into courtroom and opens up the books of their lives...” – Todd Friel [08:52]
• On the Gospel’s Core:
  “He looked at his son as if he were you, so that he can look at you as if you are the Son.” – Todd Friel [21:42]
• On Being Known by God:
  “Is there really anything better than knowing and being known by the God who died to save sinners?” – Todd Friel [24:13]
• On Christian Identity:
  “You gotta repent and put your trust in Jesus...He rejoices when one sinner repents.” – Todd Friel [24:41]
• On Repentance:
  “You have to repent…But you have to repent. That’s the way God wanted to go about life.” – Kimani [52:55]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Content | |---------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------| | [01:52] | Todd begins conversation with Sammy about purpose, atheism, and engineering | | [05:16] | Sammy explains evolutionary viewpoint | | [08:52] | Todd lays out the “bad news” of Christianity (God’s justice) | | [16:37] | Sammy reflects on the impossibility of meeting God’s standard | | [22:42] | Todd explains the “good news” of the gospel in detail | | [30:02] | Todd’s conversation with neuroscience student Kylie begins | | [33:55] | Kylie leans toward belief in a “higher power” | | [36:56] | Todd distinguishes works-based religion from the gospel | | [44:24] | Todd applies the courtroom metaphor with Kylie | | [48:03] | Todd explains "born again"; Kylie responds | | [50:43] | Conversation with Kimani (football player) about Christianity | | [52:55] | Kimani on repentance and the seriousness of persistent sin |

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Tone & Approach

• Todd Friel: Winsome, conversational, gently confrontational, persistent in clarifying gospel essentials
• Students: Honest, open, articulate, varied in familiarity with Christianity
• Atmosphere: Respectful, intellectually engaging, challenging, with moments of humor and seriousness

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Concluding Reflection

This episode demonstrates the need for gospel clarity even among those who identify as Christian, revealed in real campus dialogues. Todd’s persistent focus: the uniqueness of grace in biblical Christianity, the inability to achieve righteousness by works, and the foundational need to repent and trust in Christ alone. Listeners are left not only with apologetic tools but a renewed sense of gospel urgency for their own lives and for prayerful engagement with others.

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Transcript

[Todd Friel]

My name is Todd Friel. I'm the executive director of Fortis Institute. We are in the middle of our spring matching gift campaign. No retreat. Why did we call it that? Because the world wants us to retreat. They want us to water down truth. They want us to dull the sharp edges of the gospel. And we're determined to not retreat. In fact, we're determined to get even louder.

[Jimmy Hicks]

Why?

[Todd Friel]

We want to exalt our king and we want people to know our amazing savior. We want churches strengthene and we want families to thrive. If that resonates with you, would you please consider joining us as a gospel partner right now during our spring match giving campaign? No retreat. All gifts doubled right now. To learn more, visit fortisinstitute.org donate.

[Wretched Radio Announcer]

Wretched radio begins in 3, 2, 1.

[Todd Friel]

We've had 35 resurrections of the dead. The closer they are to freshly dead, the easier they are to resurrect.

[Sammy Kai]

So I see this giant angel, and I asked him his name. It's a financial company. And I realized this angel is here for our finances.

[Todd Friel]

And that's a true, literal story, by the way. These people are charlatans. And it's about time we draw a line in the sand and stop fraternizing with the wolves.

[Wretched Radio Announcer]

It's time for Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Jimmy Hicks]

Welcome in. Welcome in. I am Jimmy Hicks, and this is. This is Wretched Radio. It's a Witness Wednesday, which means I'm in the studio and Todd is out on the campus today. And it is a beautiful day to be out there, is it not? Spring is finally here. The trees are budding. Students are filling the campus between classes, which means the opportunities are practically endless for the amount of conversations Todd will be able to have. Let's get out to the campus now and see who he's wrangled up.

[Todd Friel]

This is Sammy Kai. And he's taller than you think. Dude, you play basketball, right? Yeah. Good on you. What position? Guard. Which means you guard things.

[Sammy Kai]

Not quite you can imagine.

[Todd Friel]

Can you tell I don't know much about sports?

[Sammy Kai]

I think you probably know more than you put on.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, you want to hear my story? Okay. I'm six, four and a half. This is why I don't play basketball. When I jump, I'm six five.

[Sammy Kai]

Really?

[Todd Friel]

Yeah. I got no vertical.

[Sammy Kai]

I don't believe that.

[Todd Friel]

No, dude, trust me. I can't jump. And all the skill that it requires, it's just. I can't handle it. I like a net between me and the opponent. Do you play volleyball? Tennis. Okay, yeah. Tennis. But you're in basketball. What are you studying here?

[Sammy Kai]

Electrical engineering.

[Todd Friel]

That's smart, dude. You're gonna have a job forever, I think.

[Sammy Kai]

I hope so.

[Todd Friel]

I do, too, because I hope AI doesn't steal it from me. Because I think a lot of the fields that the people are studying for here are gonna be compromised by AI. All right. How old are you?

[Sammy Kai]

19.

[Todd Friel]

You're young, dude. So you're 19 years old. Tell me. This is a big philosophical question. What is the purpose of life?

[Sammy Kai]

Yeah. So I' quite sure. What I do know is that I have limited time here and that I'm just here to make the best of it. Before you came to me, I was just, you know, I was just taking it all in. I have class soon, but I just think that now the spring is finally upon us. Everything is blooming and it's so beautiful here. And I was just taking a second to take in the fountain, take in all the blooming blossoms, taking the trees, and just enjoy it.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah. What is your philosophy of life? Is there a divine being? Is there a creator? Did we evolve? Did we get big banged? How did we get here?

[Sammy Kai]

Yeah, I'm not quite sure, honestly. I think evolution makes the most sense to me. But I live my life like there is no divine being, like there is no purpose for any of us. It's all on me to decide what I'm gonna do and just make the best of it while I can.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. Wouldn't that be a little nihilistic? Nihilism, which? Nothing. There's really no point. There's no purpose. That it kind of strikes me as a little bleak, like, what's the point of playing basketball if there's no point in anything?

[Sammy Kai]

I just feel like there doesn't need to be a point to guide me. I think if it brings me joy, which it does, then I think that's good enough for me.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, let me see if I can persuade you to not think evolution is the best solution. And I'm going to do it using electrical engineering. Okay. You ready? All these buildings, they've got a electricity, right? How did it get there?

[Sammy Kai]

How did it get there? I'm sure we have.

[Todd Friel]

It had an electrical engineer.

[Sammy Kai]

That is true.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah. Okay. How do you know that?

[Sammy Kai]

Because someone had to design the systems.

[Todd Friel]

Exactly. Somebody had to design the system. I think that there's a creator because there's a creation. Somebody had to design this. It's just too intricate to have happened with the big Bang. Explosions bring chaos. This is all orderly. I think there has to Be. Be a creator. That's my take. What do you think?

[Sammy Kai]

Yeah. So I think when you talk about infinities, things that might seem. How should I say it? What's the right term for when you have such a long period of time, things that have a very small chance of happening will happen. So I think with there's so many galaxies out there, so many just different chances for this to happen, that it had to happen at least once if you give it an infinite span of time. So I don't think it's that crazy that given an infinite amount of time this happened, because I think all scenarios would end up happening given an infinite amount of time.

[Todd Friel]

Then I'm gonna drill down on that a little bit. What is time? Where does time reside? It doesn't.

[Sammy Kai]

I think it's just an inherent property.

[Todd Friel]

Inherent property. It actually. It's only a marker system for us to kind of mark the order of things. But time isn't an entity doesn't have a power. It doesn't. It doesn't make things happen is my point. Neither does chance. So you can add as much time as you want to, but if it's improbable or better yet, impossible, doesn't matter how much time you have, it's still going to be impossible. Besides, if I said to you the electrical engineering that happened in there, it just took millions of years, you'd go, no, it didn't. In fact, you're kind of a knucklehead. Of course, somebody engineered it and put it into these buildings and it works. You know, there's a designer because it is designed. I think it's that simple. It's the old watchmaker illustration. If you have a watch, you know, there's a watchmaker. Your eye is more sophisticated than a watch. I don't think it could have happened all by itself. I think there's a creator. That's what I think. That's my take on it. All right. So did you grow up in a religious home? I did not. You did not? Are you practicing any philosophical system other than just doing what makes you happy? I do not. Okay. Where did you get the idea that that is the right way to live? How did you come to that conclusion?

[Sammy Kai]

So I've talked with my dad before. My dad was raised Roman Catholic, but he, I guess abandoned that once he got to college. And I think when you think about all these different religions, like you could be born into any of them. And what I think they all have in common is that they all have their own value system. They all have a way of living. And at the end of the day, I don't think it matters too much what you believe in or who is the creator. If there is a creator, I guess I'll reach him one day. And if not, then that's fine with me as long as I live my life with values that make, make it worth living.

[Todd Friel]

Alright, let's do a quick experiment, okay. Because I don't know how much time you have and I want to honor that, but let's do a quick experiment. Okay? I'm going to ask you a series of questions. Give me the pithiest answer you can. Okay. Do you know what the gospel is?

[Sammy Kai]

I don't think I could give a good answer to that.

[Todd Friel]

It's okay. It's the centerpiece of the Christian religion. It means good news. It's called gospel. It means good news. Do you know what news of Christianity is?

[Sammy Kai]

I might have a few ideas, but no.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, fair enough. Well, it implies there's some bad news, Right? Here's the bad news of Christianity. And this, if nothing else, today you're gonna hear this go, you know what? I think I at least understand Christianity and that's a good thing. So that will have been a good campus experience to at least get it because billions of people believe it. Yeah. So that's kind of a big deal. All right, here's the bad news. That God exists. He's the creat and his attributes. His character is perfection. He's holy, he's righteous, he's just. That's what he's about, moral perfection. And he's a judge and he's going to judge the world. You know when you hear about crimes that are committed and somebody gets away with it, it's like, oh man, they shouldn't get away with that. Especially if the crime were committed against you. You'd be like, I want some justice here. Well, God is all about justice and he's going to have a day of justice where he brings everybody into courtroom and opens up the books of their lives to assess if they are a criminal or if they're crime free. So let's take a moment and do that with you for a second. Let's just imagine, just use your imagination. You die whenever that is. You appear before God the judge of all the earth, the one who holds the universe and measures it with the span of his hand. He's big and powerful because he made the place and he opens up the books on your life. What do you think his assessment would be of your Moral uprightness.

[Sammy Kai]

Obviously, I'm not unbiased judge of myself, but I'd like to think that I've done pretty well. That when I meet people, I treat them with kindness, with respect. I try to empathize with them, just understand where they're coming from and give them patience with whatever they're doing with me, whether that just be a small interaction with them or whether I'm working with them for a long period of time. And I like to think that people leave their time with me with a good impression that I've added value to them.

[Todd Friel]

All right, now let's just take a look at your life through the eyes of God. What he would see. We've got to ask ourselves the question, how does the judge judge us? What's his standard? Is it just being nice to people, polite? Letting a little old lady cut in front of the car, whatever? Or is it maybe higher than that? So, for instance, have you in your life told any lies?

[Sammy Kai]

Of course.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, agree. So have I. So has everybody out here. Were you a perfect child?

[Sammy Kai]

Not in the slightest.

[Todd Friel]

There's a story there. All right, so you didn't always honor your father and mother, Right? Have you ever stolen anything? Um, if it was like a big thing, like a bank, don't say it now. But anything in your life, yeah.

[Jimmy Hicks]

The conversation will continue in just a moment because, you know, I've got to break in and interrupt. That's what I do best. But it's about to get serious. Todd has Semi Kai standing on the edge of something the young man has never really thought about before. And the next few minutes are going to feel a lot longer than they actually are. Here's what I want to ask while we're away. If you're driving and listening to this young man wrestle with eternity, take the next few seconds and pray for him. Pray what the spirit of God does. What no argument from Todd ever could witness. Wednesday continues right after this on wretched radio. No retreat. That's the name of Fortis Institute's spring match campaign. And we chose that name for a reason. The church has been quietly backing up for years. A doctrine gets a little uncomfortable. A truth sounds a little too exclusive. So we set it aside, and before long, the gospel sounds more like an apology than an announcement. Fortas Institute is determined to push the other direction, to encourage churches to hold fast to hard truth and to proclaim the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, rightly and loudly. That's why we're inviting you to join us on the no retreat spring match. Campaign right now through the end of May, every dollar you give is matched dollar for dollar and your gift will help launch two new podcasts, publish Todd Frill's new book, Go Serve youe King Through HarperCollins, and fund Gospel Proclamation on college campuses. The gospel doesn't move backward and neither should we. You can find out more right [e-mail]

[Todd Friel]

donate is it possible a Christian university can actually be ranked high when it comes to preparing students for the real world? The hat tip to Masters University. You want to send your kids someplace where they actually still teach the Bible, not just based on a document that they may be having a file cabinet someplace, but they actually use the Bible there. The education at the Master's University, not only biblical but oh so practical courses, diplomas, degrees, they can be achieved online or of course, on their beautiful campus in Southern California. Would you like to learn more about the Master's University? To prepare you or your child for the future, I encourage you to visit masters. Edu Wretched Masters. Edu Wretched.

[Wretched Radio Announcer]

Know your church fathers. Irenaeus was an apologist and disciple of Polycarp who was a disciple of the Apostle John. He served as the Bishop of Lima and wrote against heresies a refutation of Gnosticism and Docetism in which he demonstrated the coherence and necessity of the Incarnation. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Jimmy Hicks]

We are back here on Wretched Radio. It's a Witness Wednesday and we continue. Todd is out on the campus of Georgia Tech today and he is in the middle of a conversation with Sammy Kai. This is a smart kid. I believe he said electrical engineering is what he was studying and he just walked himself right into the bad news of Christianity.

[Todd Friel]

So you've st. All right. Have you ever taken God's name in vain? In other words, you've just used it as kind of a four letter filth word.

[Sammy Kai]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. Have you ever looked at a woman with sexual thoughts and desires? Yes. All right. Because Jesus said, you've heard it said of old, thou shalt not commit adultery, sex outside of marriage. But I say if you look at a woman with lust, you've committed adultery in the heart. In other words, God's standard goes way deeper than what we do. He sees our thought life and in lusting after somebody that we're not in that relationship with, sees it as adultery of the heart. Have you ever murdered anybody?

[Sammy Kai]

No.

[Todd Friel]

Not so fast. Have you ever just been angry with somebody? Like, oh, you bleep bleep bleep yeah, all the time. Jesus said that you're in danger of the judgment because that's akin to murder. No, it's not the same as cutting somebody's head off. But it's the same heart attitude that we just. I want you off the planet, basically. All right, so that's God's standards. And he's got record of it all. So your thought, life, word, deed done in darkness done, and the light, he's got it all now. Remember, his character is just. And he's not going to let boys be boys. He's not going to let criminals slide. He must punish law breakers. Dude, what would he do with you on that day

[Sammy Kai]

if he held everyone to this super high standard? I don't know if any of us would make it.

[Todd Friel]

You are correct. I don't think anybody would. I know. Nobody would make. Nobody would make it. You're right. That's what the Bible says. Everybody sins, they fall short of God's standard. You're right. Okay, so if he's just. And he must punish lawbreakers, our eternity is very bleak. See, I think you got a soul. The thing that animates you is your soul. And Jesus said, what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but he loses his soul? Your soul is precious. Your soul is more precious than your eyes. They're just the window to your soul. It's going to live on for forever. And if God judges you based on his standard, like me, dude, you're in big trouble. And so am I. Okay, Remember though, that's the bad news of Christianity because you gotta have bad news before the good news as best you can. You've bumped into Christians before, right? Maybe somebody took you to a youth group thing. I don't know. You watch something on tv, that's the bad news. Now see if you can tell me what is the good news of Christianity?

[Sammy Kai]

This can be forgiven.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, you're in the ballpark. Yes. Keep going.

[Sammy Kai]

I couldn't give you. I'm not. I'm not sure of what I'm saying. But if you, from what I've seen, if you, I guess go to church, if you believe, if you spread the word that if you, I guess, confess of your sins, then these things can't be forgiven.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, you had a lot in there. Let me parse it a little bit. Because some of it was more bad news. Because doing good stuff, that's actually bad news. Because I don't do what I'm supposed to do. And that's a command. And that's A law. But the good things that you may. You've got to confess your sins. Yeah, that's a part of what it means to become a Christian. But that doesn't explain the good news of Christianity. Here's the scenario. You and I are in trouble. We've got a rap sheet. We've got a criminal record that is a mile long. And God isn't going to dismiss our case because if he did, he'd be unjust, he'd be a corrupt judge. But God is rich in mercy. God is love. The Bible says he's love. He isn't loving, he actually is love. He embodies love. And he's merciful and he's gracious, and he does to save sinners. But there's a tension here. He must punish lawbreakers. He wants to forgive criminals, but if he just forgives the criminals, then he's unjust. So that can't be. So there must be something that relieves that tension. Here's the good news. You've heard of Jesus Christ, right? Okay. He's God in the flesh. Came to this earth and he kept all the laws that you and I broke. He kept them all. He never sass mouthed his parents. He never looked with lust. He always told the truth. Morally upright in every way. And then he did something. He marched to a cross, a Roman cross. And they just brutalized him. They arrested him because they thought that he was a threat. They stripped him, Macon. They punched him in the face repeatedly, hit him with a stick, constantly. Spit on him, mocked him. And then they beat him with something called a cat o9 tails. Have you ever heard that term?

[Sammy Kai]

I have not.

[Todd Friel]

Cat O9 tails is like a really sophisticated whip. It's leather straps connected to a handle. So it's not just one, like a cowboy whip. There's multiple straps and there's pottery and nails woven inside of the leather straps. He wrapped him around a pole, exposing his back, and whipped him with the cat o9 tails. A lot of guys would just die because it rips through your skin. It rips through your muscles and your organs just fall out and you die. Well, he survived, but then they forced him to carry a piece of wood to a hill where they put nails in his hands and feet and hung him up in the air on. I don't know if you've ever considered this, but do you know how you die? When you hang on a cross. Do you know what the cause of death is?

[Sammy Kai]

Is it loss of blood?

[Todd Friel]

That could be a part of it? Yes, sir. It Could. But what will definitely take your life, even if you haven't lost blood, is you suffocate to death. Have you ever been in a swimming pool? You're in the shallow, and then you start walking to the deep end and you try to keep your head above water. And when it starts to get really. Your head goes up and what happens? You're like, really? That's what happens when you're hung on a cross. Just everything gets pulled up and you can't breathe. So basically suffocated to death. That was not purposeless. He was doing something. There was a cosmic transaction taking place. God the Father was pouring out his right wrath, his anger on his son. Why? Because he looked at his son as if he were you, the sinner. And he poured out his wrath to satisfy justice. So he looked at his son as if he were you, so that he can look at you as if you are the Son. In other words, he can forgive your sins, dismiss your court case. Because Jesus satisfies justice, that breaks the 10. Therefore, God can forgive you and still be just because justice has been satisfied. In other words, God in flesh came to this earth to die, to rescue you. That's good news. Your court case can be dismissed. You can be forgiven. And more than that, you can actually be brought into an intimate relationship with the Creator of the universe. You can know him and he will love you because he actually desires a relationship. That's why he sent his son, so that you can be brought into his presence and know God and be adopted by him. That's the good news of the Gospel.

[Wretched Radio Announcer]

All right.

[Todd Friel]

Now you understand Christianity, right?

[Sammy Kai]

Thank you very much. This has been great.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah. All right. But may I press you, though, and make it a little more personal? You understand it? What are you gonna do with it? Yeah, I.

[Sammy Kai]

Not quite sure currently what I'm gonna do with it. I think this will help me understand where other Christians are coming from.

[Todd Friel]

Right. So if you think about this today, and maybe it resonates, and I hope your conscience. You know what your conscience is, right? I would imagine so. It's the courtroom in your brain. It's the thing that either accuses you or says, I'm doing okay. It's your conscience. I would hope it would be convicted today that you would say, I've fallen short. I've just. I haven't done it, and I'm in trouble with God. And then I hope you'll remember the good news, that God died to rescue you and he's willing to do it and he's not going to do it by holding his nose and going, all right, I'll let him in, but I don't really like him. No, he rejoices when one sinner repents. And that's what you got to do. You got to repent and put your trust in Jesus. So I can't make you do that. I'm not going to sign you up for a cult because I'm not in one. I can't make you do anything, dude. But I would simply urge you as earnestly as I could, think about your soul. Think about your soul. Eternity is a long time and your soul is precious. And besides, what better thing is there than knowing God? Is there really anything better than knowing and being known by the God who died to save sinners? Think about it with some urgency. You're young. Sometimes a young man your age will say, well, I'll just kind of wait, wait till I die and deal with it. That misses the point. Okay. This isn't just about escaping hell. This is about the kindness of God. You should put your trust in Jesus not merely so you escape hell, but so that you can be in a relationship with the one who died to save you from hell. This is all about loving God and being loved by him. That's what Christianity was. So whatever form you've heard that doesn't describe that. It's not the right form. It's not what the Bible teaches. God wants to save you. So with some urgency today, all I can politely ask you to do is consider it. Would you?

[Sammy Kai]

I think I'll need to do some thinking, but I thank you for educating me.

[Todd Friel]

Dude, you're a gentleman.

[Jimmy Hicks]

There's a moment in every one of these conversations where the air changes. And if you've listened to Witness Wednesday for any significant amount of time, you can pick up on where you think that moment is. I think Sammy Kai hit that somewhere right around the Cat O' nine Tales. You can almost hear it in his voice. Todd just told him that eternity is an extremely long time and his soul is precious. There's really nothing much more we ourselves can do for Sammy from here other than pray for that young man and pray for him earnestly. We've got more Witness Wednesday still to come. This is wretched radio, And it is now time for your daily Fortis News Breaker production of Fortis Institute. A Republican running for Georgia governor on a promise to ban DEI is having a bit of an awkward time. Recently, billionaire healthcare executive Rick Jackson has pledged to scrub diversity programs from state government. And in his words criminalize reverse discrimination. Meanwhile, the nonprofit he co founded, Go beyond point, spent 2021 telling companies to embed DEI into the fabric of their culture, guarantee final interview slots for women and racial minorities and read Ibram x Kendi's how to Be an Anti Racist. Jackson's own healthcare company adopted those policies and watched minority hires jump from 9% to 25. His campaign now insists he hires like the Georgia Bulldogs, only the best players. Voters in Georgia may very well want to ask which Rick Jackson is on the ballot. The Southern Poverty Law center, the group that built a multi million dollar industry labeling Christians and parents as hate groups, was indicted last week by a federal grand jury. The Justice Department says they secretly funneled more than $3 million to actual white supremacists, including members, members of the KKK, Aryan nations and Charlottesville Unite the Right organizers. Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche put it plainly when he said the SPLC was manufacturing the extremism it purports to oppose. They've been charged with 11 counts of wire fraud, false statements and money laundering. Houston City Council walked back its sanctuary ordinance last week after Governor Grand Abbott threatened to claw back $130 $10 million in public safety grants. The original ordinance barred local police from cooperating with ice. The new version now says they will, and the mayor who voted for the original helped to rewrite it. Principle's been awfully fast, and the check is on the line. And in Pennsylvania, the Commonwealth Court ruled that taxpayers must now fund elective abortions through Medicaid, claiming the state's Equal Rights Amendment requires it. Researchers estimate roughly 3,700 additional abortions every year, forcing Pennsylvanians to subsidize the killing of unborn children and calling it equal rights. In Iowa, a Lutheran minister running for Congress as a Democrat is bragging from a stage about the time she officiated a wedding for two Satanists. Sarah Trone Gary teared up, describing how the couple looked at each other. And she read 1 Corinthians 13 over them. She says the very passage this his love does not delight in evil and rejoices with the truth. And that wraps up today's Fortis newsbreak. I'm Jimmy Hicks. If you want more, you can download Fortis or sign up to become a Fortis Anxiety for exclusive daily content. Both of those things can be [e-mail], and don't forget, you can subscribe to Fortis News on your favorite podcast app in order to get these updates daily. And until tomorrow, go serve your king.

[Wretched Radio Announcer]

Books of the Bible. The apostle Peter wrote a second epistle to clarify and defend the Christian message. He asserts the authority of scripture, warns against false teachers, and reminds us that the end is coming. But God is patient, allowing all of his people to come to repentance. If you want a clear contrast between true and false Christianity, look to second Peter. This is Richard Richard radio with Todd Friel.

[Jimmy Hicks]

And we are back here on Wretched Radio. It is a Witness Wednesday. I'm Jimmy Hicks in the studio. Todd is out on the campus of Georgia Tech today. And how this works, honestly, you never really hear anything other than the conversations Todd has. But how this actually works is most students are going to walk right past him, but the ones who don't, who stop and have a conversation with him, they typically walk away a whole lot different than when they sat down. Now let's get out to the campus now and listen in on who he's rounded up.

[Todd Friel]

Hey, if you want to feel stupid, come to Georgia Tech. This is Kylie. You're studying neuroscience.

[Kylie]

Yes.

[Todd Friel]

I'm dumb. That's all there is to it. You're smart. I'm dumb. So do you want to be a neurosurgeon?

[Kylie]

I want to be a neurologist.

[Todd Friel]

Right, right. She wants to. Right, Exactly. Isn't that like, neuro operating on the brain or something?

[Kylie]

Something like that.

[Todd Friel]

So, like, when somebody says, this isn't brain surgery, you could say, actually, it is.

[Kylie]

I would do more so, like, the testing. Not like, I don't want to be touching the brain.

[Todd Friel]

Well, now you treat it like it's gross. That's what you're studying.

[Kylie]

You know, I love it, but you

[Todd Friel]

just don't want to have to. It's a really tender organ. It's an amazing organ. So here's my question. This is what I always marvel at with medical people when I go to get my eyes checked. And just the intricacy of the design of the eye and the brain is just crazy. Who do you think, like, is there a God that made the brain?

[Kylie]

Maybe? Like, there might be. Like, that's what I'm really interested in is, like, how did this, like, evolve? Or, like, how did it happen? You know, like.

[Todd Friel]

Well, let me. Okay. How did it evolve?

[Kylie]

Evolution. You have, like, you know, like, what are they called? Gorillas.

[Todd Friel]

All right, let's talk about the brain. I know just a little bit. Okay. There's different portions of the brain.

[Kylie]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

And in order for you to operate correctly, they all need to be functioning rightly. So you've got how many quadrants to the brain. There's four.

[Kylie]

Right, Right.

[Todd Friel]

Which one came first?

[Kylie]

I would go, I don't know. Honestly, I don't know. I know there's two hemispheres and they each do different things. Like, one's more like artistic side of you and the other is more logical thinking. Yeah, I don't know which one came first or if it was more of like a simultaneous thing.

[Todd Friel]

Honestly, the odds of simultaneous strike me as impossible.

[Kylie]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

That all of this. Okay, so for instance, going back to your eye, you've got a lens, you've got a retina, you've got a cornea, you got the little washers that, you know, clean everything with the fluid that comes. Which, which part of the eye do you think came first?

[Kylie]

I would say the retina. Just because so much happens there. Like, without it, you would not be able to see, like colors or have the proof of vision or anything because there's rods and cones there. And your brain actually does do so much parallel processing, especially with vision, because you have different parts like V1, V2, V3, V4, V5. And it all just happens simultaneously. Like V2, V3, 4, like simultaneously. So you could do like motion. Like you can see motion. You can see just like how you see different things. Like your brain just does it all at once.

[Todd Friel]

It does it all at once. But we're talking about evolution, how it got here. Because if you've got rods without cones, then there's no purpose for the rods and they wouldn't exist. If you've got a retina without a cornea, it can't function. So it all needed to evolve into instantaneously. Otherwise there'd be no reason for its existence. Sort of like your ability to chew food had to have that ability in order to digest it. You had to have hypostasis. I think that's what it's called, where it makes it go down your throat. And then it had to have a gut to land in and had to have the acid. Which one of those parts of the process came first?

[Kylie]

Honestly, I have no clue.

[Todd Friel]

Here's what I'm driving at, Kylie, that evolution doesn't account for which came first. Because if you've got something that requires something else and it doesn't have the other thing, then it ceases to function. It has no purpose. So they are. They're. They're dependent on one another. So that points me far more toward a creator who made the brain as opposed to a millions or billions of year process. Because it doesn't make sense to Me, I think you were created. That's what I think.

[Kylie]

I agree. I think there is a higher power.

[Todd Friel]

Who do you think it is?

[Kylie]

I would say, like, God and, like, Jesus and all of that. Like, I'm a Christian.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. All right, cool. So if I came up to you, Kylie, and I said, I hear you're a Christian, you're a very pleasant person. I hear you're very good at tennis. How's the bake sale for the tennis team going, by the way?

[Kylie]

It's going good. Today's our first day.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. So you know what? I'm kind of intrigued by your belief. Tell me, Kylie, why should I become a Christian? I'm kind of interested. Go.

[Kylie]

I think you should become a Christian because just, like, the why of everything, you know, because so much is here and you're able to do so many amazing things, especially, like, when you study, like, neuroscience and everything, there's, like, how did this even happen? You know? So, like, the origin of so many things is so unknown that I feel like there is a ultimate creator, you know, that brought the stuff here or maybe at least, like, the. The ground prints for it or the. The blueprints for it, you know?

[Todd Friel]

All right, I agree with you. I look at creation and I go, this had to be made by somebody. This. This couldn't be random chance. It's too design. Your eye is too int. Intricately designed to not have a designer. I agree with that. But why should I believe the God of the universe is the Christian God?

[Kylie]

Honestly, I don't know. Why. I mean, I would. I don't know. I would like to do more research onto other belief systems and see why they believe what they do versus what I. Why I believe versus what I do. Because I love to learn things. Looking at all perspectives. And, yeah, like, I wouldn't say, like, I believe this, so everyone else should believe this. I should say that everyone should do their own individual research and believe what they want to.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, so then if you're interested in that, let me lay this out for you, and you tell me if you agree or disagree. All right. I think that when it comes to world religions, there's two categories. Here's the first category, and in this category would be things like Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, and certain sects of Christianity, like Jehovah's Witness, Mormonism, even the Roman Catholic Church. Here's what they basically teach. There's a God. We are disconnected from him currently. And in order to be reconnected and potentially have a good afterlife, however you define that, we have to do good things. Okay, so do good things and maybe, maybe you'll experience a good afterlife. That's that one category. Here's the other category. It's Biblical Christianity, and it says something radically different, almost counterintuitive. It says you can't do good works to get to heaven. Why? Because your hands are stained by sin. And so you can't do enough good deeds to bribe the judge because they're offered from somebody who doesn't do good. So in other words, this system says do. This system says you can't do enough, but there is somebody who has done it for you. That's Jesus Christ. God himself, the second person of the Trinity came to earth, put on human flesh. He kept all of the laws, fulfilled all righteousness, intentionally went to a cross. I'm telling you, he was whipped and beaten, nasty and pummeled and spat upon and then hung on a cross, not as a victim, but as a volunteer. Here's what was happening on the cross. The sins of humankind were being put on the sinless Son of God, and God was pouring out his wrath on his son so that our sinful deeds could be forgiven because he satisfies justice. This is called the good news of the gospel. Okay? These all say works. This one says, no, you can't work, but Jesus did. And if you'll repent and put your trust in him, all of your sins will be forgiven. You want to do good works, but your good works don't save you. Jesus saves you completely free so that you'll love him and follow him. Because who else has died for somebody as sinful as us? That's basically. Those are your two camps. Okay. What do you think of my assessment?

[Kylie]

I think that's a good assessment. Yeah. I think everyone makes mistakes in life. And I think. I think it's more so how you come back for them and how you. How you change yourself. And I feel like that is like.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah, I think it's important to do that, but I think this goes a little bit more closer to the inner person. This has to do with our thoughts, our words, our deeds, our attitude, our trajectory, and our relationship with God. This one says, right now you're in trouble because you've done bad things. Would you agree? You've done bad things. Just between you and me. Yes, me too. Everybody has told lies, stolen things, dishonored parents, taken God's name in vain. The problem is we have a rap sheet. And the Bible says. And we like the idea of justice. The Bible says there's going to be a day of justice. Everything will be judged and everyone will be judged. You, me, every. And God knows everything that we've ever done that is wrong, even our thoughts, which is really kind of scary when you think about it. All right, so on the day when Kiley dies, she stands before God who knows everything that you've done that was a sin. What should God do with you? What should he do with somebody like you and me who's broken his?

[Jimmy Hicks]

All right, I'm going to break in just a moment. You know the really sad and tragic part about Christianity, modern evangelicalism in this country, most people who call themselves a Christian, they've never really been asked to defend it out loud. When that question comes unexpectedly, it shows you something about yourself that you didn't really want to know. This young woman, Kylie Todd's talking to, she just found that out. And now Todd is about to walk her into the courtroom and put her right in front of her. The only question that actually even matters. We'll be back to hear her response next. Thanks for listening to Wretched Radio today. Look, here's something that I've noticed, and maybe you have, too, but it's really easy for us to treat our faith sometimes like a category. Sunday is Sunday. Work is work, parenting is parenting. And somewhere in there, you try to be a Christian, but it doesn't always feel like it's all connected. That's why Dr. Jon Krotz and his podcast Integrated is so incredibly important. Dr. Krantz is a pastor, he's an author, he's a biblical counselor, and he's a Fortis Institute fellow and the host of Integrated. And he is helping people see how scripture speaks to every part of their life. Not just the spiritual stuff, but the practical, everyday. How do I actually live this stuff out stuff. And if what we're doing at Fortis Institute has been a source of encouragement for you, I want to ask you to consider joining us as an ongoing monthly gospel partner. Help us continue producing content just like Integrated. The connect connects the dots. Go to fortisinstitute.org right now and find out how to join us. Wretched Amazing Grace, Amazing Gospel Most of us haven't really thought about persecution. Not the real kind, not the kind where following Jesus actually cost you something. But Christians throughout history have indeed faced it. And depending on where things are headed, we might, too. So what does the Bible say you're supposed to do when the pressure mounts? That's exactly what our resource persecution is about. It's teaching built on the Book of first Peter with historical context from the Fox's Book of Martyrs, you'll get a biblical framework for faithfulness when things aren't easy anymore. Fix your hope on heaven, grow in holiness and submit to authority unless they tell you to sin and keep proclaiming the gospel anyway. This is honest teaching and it's more timely than any of us may want to admit persecution Available now on Fortis. Download the app for free on your smartphone, on your smart TV, or just simply go to fortis plus.org you've tried everything. You've sent articles, you've had the conversations. You've probably argued more than you wanted to. But you have a loved one who is still neck deep in the Prosperity Gospel or the new Apostolic Reformation, and nothing you seem to say gets through. It's exhausting, I know, and it's also heartbreaking. Snatch Them from the Flames was made for exactly this reason. Todd Friel and Justin Peters sit down and they tackle why your loved one is attracted to these movements in the first place. Because until you actually understand that, you're just going to be swinging in the dark, then they walk through the things that you can actually say and do to help pull them toward Christianity. This isn't about winning an argument. It's about understanding someone you love and pointing them to something real. If you've got a family member or friend caught up in a false gospel and you don't know what else to try, Snatch Them from the Flames is for you. It's streaming for free right now on Fortis. Download the app on your smartphone, your smart TV, or simply go to fortisplus.org.

[Wretched Radio Announcer]

God has given the church many gifts for the building up of the body. One gift is service, the spiritual ability to meet people's physical needs. Just as Christ came, not to be served, but to serve. God provides the office of deacon, those who are charged and equipped to care for the physical needs of the church. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel

[Jimmy Hicks]

and we are back here on Wretched Radio. Witness Wednesday is rolling on. DOD is on the campus of Georgia Tech today. He's been talking to Kylie and when we went to break, he had her standing in the courtroom of God. And what happens over the next few minutes is going to answer a lot of questions for Kylie. Let's get back out to the campus now.

[Kylie]

I think he should, you know, like, look at everything good you've done in life, how or how you have, like, come back from a bad thing you've done. If you've stolen, if you've Lied. How you have changed yourself for the better or for the worse, how you have reacted to it, how you have just changed yourself.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah, let's come back from the justice room in heaven to an earthly court and let's say that I broke a bunch of laws and I'm standing before the judge. And I said the same thing. I said, judge, I really worked on myself. I've changed some things. I'm doing some. What would the judge say to me? A lawbreaker?

[Kylie]

The judge would still probably be like,

[Todd Friel]

well, you did this exactly right. Well, it's nice you did that. That's good. You should. But you still have a debt to pay. That's our problem. We have a huge debt of justice because we've done everything that is unjust. So you're standing before God. He knows you're guilty. You've broken his laws, you've offended him. Because he's holy. He's perfect and righteous. Never does anything wrong. Everything that is true, right, just and good, that's God. He embodies what is good. He should send us to hell. That's what he should do. He should. Because that's what's just. But I can even tell by the look on your face not a great future. Right?

[Kylie]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

All right, so here's the other part about God that needs to be be known. That he's love and that he's good and he's merciful. But you got some tension here. He should punish lawbreakers, but he'd love to forgive them and be in a right relationship with them. But if he just forgets about their sins, well, then he's not. Just. That would be a problem. And if he just gives us justice, we go to hell. And that's a problem. So here's the solution. God sent his son, Jesus Christ, to live that life of righteousness, to march to that cross to take the punishment for your sins. In other words, he pays your debt. He died for sinners, willfully died for people like you and me that we can be forgiven. So when we stand in God's courtroom, we don't have a rap sheet anymore and we can be set free because Jesus Christ has paid our fine. That's called the good news of the gospel, Kylie. All of these other systems, and you'll hear about them on the campus, listen for them. You gotta do this, work for that. Try this, don't do this, don't do that. In other words, you gotta work your way and maybe, just maybe, you'll get there. This says, oh, you'll definitely get there. But here are the terms. You surrender to God, you repent. You turn from your sins. You don't become perfect in an instant, but you go, I don't want those things anymore. I want the ways of the God who died for me. And you put your trust in Jesus. That's what it means to be a Christian. You trust Jesus like you trust a parachute jumping out of an airplane. That's great news. You can be set free. Your sins can be forgiven, and then he'll go about the business of rewiring you and helping you to think better and to sort things and understand how the brain came together. You'll get reality. You won't have any shame, no more guilt. You'll have purpose and intentionality for the rest of your life. That's Christianity. All right, so, Kylie, you said you're a Christian. Here's what Jesus said. Unless a woman is born again, she will not see the kingdom of God. Did you catch that? If Kylie is not born again, she won't see the kingdom of God. Kingdom of God. All right, so what do you think Jesus meant? You have to be born again?

[Kylie]

I think he means born again as in coming with a new, like, belief system.

[Todd Friel]

Or wait, yeah, I think you're getting warm.

[Kylie]

Yeah, yeah. Like believing in God, repenting, like, following his beliefs and his way of living.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah, yeah. It means basically dying to self. It's like, you know what, Lord, you're right, I'm wrong. I've been totally wrong. I'm done with that. I want your ways. I'm sorry for my sins. I'm putting my faith in Jesus Christ. And he says, this is the part of Christianity so many people miss. Jesus didn't just die so your sins could be forgiven. God wants something of you. Do you know what God wants from you, Kiley?

[Kylie]

He wants. He wants your love. He wants you to, like, repent.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah, he wants you. Yeah, he wants you. He actually wants to be in a relationship with sinners. And it's just we would never imagine something like that. I mean, can you imagine somebody praying? God, here's what I want you to do. I want you to send your son to die on a cross for me. And then I want you to adopt me and love me and give me everlasting. We just never dream of something like that. But that's. That's what he gives us. It's a great offer. So, Kylie, what I just presented to you, I think, is a presentation of the best decision you can make, and that is that this is true. And that you can know God because of what Jesus Christ did for you. But the terms are repentance and faith. If you haven't done that, I know you. You're busy with the tennis stuff. You got neuroscience studies. I can only imagine this is more important because this is about your soul. Do business with your soul today and make sure that on the day of judgment when you die, God's gonna say, come on in. I've been waiting for you, Kylie. I have been looking forward to this day because I love you. And if you believe that that's true, repent, Put your trust in Jesus Christ and life will move from black and white to Technicolor. Would you do that today?

[Kylie]

Yes.

[Todd Friel]

You're very, very pleasant, and you're way too smart, and that's agitating. Hey, what do you think about this today?

[Kylie]

Of course.

[Todd Friel]

All right, Kylie, I thank you for your time.

[Jimmy Hicks]

Now, Todd asked her the question every one of us will have to answer eventually. Will you repent and put your trust in Jesus Christ? She said yes. So let's pray that she will honestly put a lot of thought into the things that she heard from Todd today. Well, we're not finished yet. We still have a few more minutes out on the clock. And Todd has indicated that he has someone else who's walked up cutting the

[Todd Friel]

terms of the deal here with Kimani. You play for Georgia Tech football team and your position is.

[Kimani]

Oh, salon.

[Todd Friel]

Becker, I've got a philosophy about football, and I want you to confirm it or deny it for me. Ready? All right. I've been out on the campus talking about to a fair number of students today, and none of them are familiar, or at least really familiar with Christianity. But every time I talk to a football player, whether it's a Georgia Tech uga, can I say uga? Is that okay? Will that get up your nose?

[Kimani]

Okay.

[Todd Friel]

Wherever it is, I'm shocked at how many football players are Christians and really know their theology. Is my theory correct?

[Kimani]

It's definitely correct.

[Todd Friel]

Rock on.

[Kimani]

Being a Christian, it helps a lot of football players. Football players have the most traumatic probably life experiences ever. They can definitely get lonely and they lean on God to help them fill that void.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah, and there's really strong chaplaincy programs. I found almost everywhere. Like, really good ones, too. All right, then. Would you be so kind? You're a Christian?

[Kimani]

Yes, sir.

[Todd Friel]

Cool. As simply as you can, explain to me what the gospel is.

[Kimani]

The gospel is just how I look at the gospel is words from the past that fill a void from today's feelings.

[Todd Friel]

Here's a scenario for you. Instead of approaching you and asking you if you'll confirm my theory, I approach you. I got a knife in the middle of my back. I can't get to it. I am bleeding out, dude. It is getting fuzzy. I am going down. I'm afraid to die. What would you tell, Tell me I must do to go to heaven.

[Kimani]

Turn your life over. Everything you do, include God in it. Don't make God a routine, dude.

[Todd Friel]

I agree with you, but I'm going down.

[Kimani]

Tell God thank you. Okay, I'm coming home. Thank you.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, so everybody's gonna go to heaven when they die.

[Kimani]

If you turn your life over there for you. I have faith that everybody can go to heaven.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, so when you say turn your life over, you're not necessarily, necessarily thinking about. It's like right now. Turn your life over. Can you explain just a little bit more, Kimani, what you mean by that?

[Kimani]

Wholeheartedly believing that God will have you in any situation. That you, that you come across anything, any step that you take, believe that God will help you with that, with that step.

[Todd Friel]

What about repentance? Where does that fit into all of this?

[Kimani]

You gotta. You have to repent. Repentant. Everybody gonna sin. You're not, you're not perfect. Nobody's perfect. God don't expect you to be perfect. But you have to repent. That's. That's the way God wanted to go about life.

[Todd Friel]

And what if I don't?

[Kimani]

God. God forgive. God forgive, forget. But it's in Hebrews. Hebrews, chapter 10, verse 26, 27. Don't quote me. I think it's 26, 27, 23, 24. God said he will throw you to the pits of hell if you continue to commit the same sin. So if you continuously commit the same sin, knowing this is sin, he won't forgive you at some point. So if you do, if you do notice the sin, I feel you should try to correct yourself. If you don't, I feel like you should get information from the Bible that you should correct yourself.

[Todd Friel]

All right, are you this convinced that Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, the life? That if somebody does not repent and trust in him, they're not going to heaven.

[Kimani]

101%. I feel like if God said that and quoted that, then he mean that.

[Todd Friel]

All right, and the football team, how many of your fellow football players believe the same thing?

[Kimani]

A lot of them, some of them is Muslim. Everybody have their own purposes, but a lot of them is Christian.

[Todd Friel]

Is that right?

[Kimani]

And want to turn their life over to God.

[Todd Friel]

Cool. That's awesome, dude. Thank you for the chat. Thank you for having me and thanks for confirming my theory and thanks for not hurting me.

[Kimani]

Yes, sir. All right, man.

[Todd Friel]

Thanks.

[Jimmy Hicks]

All right, well, that is going to do it for us now here on Witness Wednesday. Those final two conversations with Kylie and Kimani, those are examples, two different souls that Todd just talked to. Both of them claiming to be a Christian but neither one of them able to give the gospel back cleanly when they were asked for it. They were all around it. They knew some parts of it here and some parts of it there. But you know, that's most of the church in this country right now. And it's the reason that Todd continues to go back out on the campus each and every week. And we have much more Witness Wednesday coming next week and more wretched radio coming tomorrow. And until tomorrow, go serve your king.