Witness Wednesday: Science Says No, Conscience Says Yes… What’s Next?

Summary

Podcast Episode Summary

Podcast: Wretched Radio with Todd Friel

Episode: Witness Wednesday: Science Says No, Conscience Says Yes… What’s Next?
Date: April 8, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this Witness Wednesday edition of Wretched Radio, Todd Friel heads to the campus of Georgia Tech to engage students in candid conversations about science, faith, sin, and the gospel. The main focus is on live witnessing encounters—discussions that challenge students’ views on morality, creation vs. evolution, personal responsibility, and the role of conscience. Throughout, Friel probes beneath intellectual objections to address matters of conscience and the heart, presenting the Christian gospel as both logical and essential.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Reality of Design: Science vs. Faith

• Friel’s Opener (01:07–01:33)
  Todd Friel begins with a tongue-in-cheek critique of evolutionary theory:

“Evolution is more than a theory. It is a fundamental scientific principle. You know, there's a scientific term for that. It's called baloney.”
He asserts that belief in creation is a logical conclusion based on the evident design in the world.

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2. Eduardo, the Lapsed Catholic from Venezuela

Segment: [02:01–12:32]

• Background: Eduardo, a tall engineering student, was raised Roman Catholic but is now non-practicing, as are his parents.
• Views on God and Afterlife: Believes in God but not sure about the afterlife, and assumes heaven is the default for good people.
• Moral Self-Assessment: Thinks he’s a good person; admits to occasional lust and lies but justifies them as human nature or harmless.
• Ten Commandments Test: Friel walks Eduardo through the commandments, gently revealing moral shortcomings beyond outward actions—lust, anger, lies, and misplaced priorities (06:09–07:11).
• Guilt Before God:

  “So if you're definitely guilty and God is good and he's just, Eduardo, what do you think God should do with you?”
  Eduardo uncomfortably concedes possible guilt and hell, but also questions the binary of heaven and hell (07:11–08:11).

• The Gospel Explained:
  Friel explains substitutionary atonement, “If Jesus paid your fine, then you could go to heaven, not because of what you've done, but because of what he's done.” (09:03–09:41)
• Call to Repentance:
  Friel urges Eduardo to read the Gospel of John, underscoring the stakes:

  “What is it profit a man if he gains the whole world, but he loses his very soul?” (11:09–11:10)

• Notable Moment: Eduardo’s candid admission:

  “If I have to be someone I am not just to go to heaven, I'd rather be myself and go to hell” (07:51–08:02)

• Closing Reflection: Friel observes Eduardo’s discomfort and hopes his conscience is stirred.

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3. Joey, the Computational Media Student & Evolutionist

Segment: [15:19–31:07]

• Background: Joey studies "computational media" and affirms evolution over creation.
• Design vs. Randomness Debate:
  Friel presents the analogy of software design, suggesting that complex programs imply a designer—so should biology (15:53–18:03).
• Why Believe in Evolution?
  Joey insists evidence is on evolution’s side; Friel counters:

  “You believe what you believe because you think... God wasn’t needed for any of this. Therefore I have no God. I’m accountable to no one.” (18:28–19:07)

• Morality and Conscience:
  Joey denies needing God for morality:

  “I obviously have some type of sense of what I should be doing with my life.” (19:30–19:55)
  Friel maintains the concept of conscience comes from God.

• Personal Moral Inventory:
  Joey admits to lying, stealing, lusting, and blasphemy (20:44–21:43), but resists the innocent/guilty binary, preferring “everything is in the gray” (22:12–22:17).
• God’s Justice and Forgiveness:
  Friel drives home the standard of absolute justice and why God must deal with all sin (23:33–24:08).
• Offering the Gospel:
  Friel stresses the solution—repentance and trust in Christ, not just “being good” or seeking forgiveness as insurance.

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4. Mechanical Engineering Student: Science, Space & "Why Believe?"

Segment: [32:10–40:23]

• Background: Student is Catholic by upbringing, now loosely affiliated; aspires to work in space engineering.
• Life in the Universe:
  Conversation opens on the probability of life beyond Earth, with student keeping "an open mind as a scientist." (32:36–33:37)
• Why Catholicism?
  Student struggles to articulate reasons beyond tradition, leans “just Christianity.”
• Friel’s Theological Reflection:
  Friel explains why God would create humanity—so attributes like love, mercy, and grace could be displayed (34:11–35:53).
• Ten Commandments Inventory:
  Student admits to lying, stealing (illegally downloaded music), lust, and occasional blasphemy (36:15–36:52).
• Universality of Sin:

  “There’s not one person... that has not done that.” (36:22–37:27)

• True Christianity:
  Friel distinguishes between cultural Christianity and true repentance/faith, urging genuine self-examination and humility before God (39:40–40:22).

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5. Roswell Listener: The "Moral Rules" Skeptic

Segment: [44:05–54:54]

• Background: 21-year-old from Roswell, Georgia, grew up around Christianity but disconnected from it—prefers to “sleep in on Sundays.”
• Christianity as Morality:
  Sees church as a “set of morals” with rules that can be “inconvenient.” Describes lessons as “stories” and rules (45:12–45:50).
• Purpose of the Rules:
  Friel reframes the law as a mirror to reveal human sinfulness and need for salvation, not merely a list for behavior control (46:13–47:58).
• If Rules are Impossible, Why Try? Student observes:

  “But they're impossible rules, so why even play the game?” (47:58–48:02)

• The Heart of the Gospel:
  Friel answers that the impossibility points to our need for a Savior—Jesus who fulfilled the law and bore the penalty for sin (48:02–49:34).
• Problem of Cheap Grace:
  Listener asks:

  “...why wouldn’t I just do whatever I want, whenever I want, and then just ask for forgiveness at the end of the day?” (49:34–49:49) Friel responds with an analogy about honoring Christ’s sacrifice, stressing that grace should transform desires.

• Evolution and God’s Plan:
  Listener asks Friel’s view; he responds, “I think God made you and designed you... God didn’t evolve it. He made it…” (51:27–52:24)
• Eschatological Warning & Appeal:
  Friel urges the student to consider eternal consequences and turn to God out of gratitude, not fear alone.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• Friel skewering evolution, mockingly:

  “There’s a scientific term for [evolution as fundamental principle]. It’s called baloney.” (01:07)

• Eduardo on morality and hell:

  “If I have to be someone I am not just to... go to heaven, I’d rather be myself and go to hell.” (07:51)

• On grace and substitution:

  “If Jesus paid your fine, then you could go to heaven, not because of what you've done, but because of what he's done.” (09:03)

• Challenging the ‘gray area’:
  Joey: “I always believe everything is in the gray.”
  Friel: “Well, I don’t know that you can get away with that in court.” (22:12–22:17)
• Friel on the purpose of rules:

  “Here’s why the rules were given: so that you could see yourself the way that God sees you. Pretty radical thought, right?” (46:13)

• Roswell Listener’s skepticism:

  “But they're impossible rules, so why even play the game?” (47:58)

• Friel’s analogy on cheap grace:

  “If you understand that Jesus Christ died for you, a sinner, you wouldn’t ever want to go do the things that caused him to be crucified on your behalf.” (50:15)

• On the fate of humanity:

  “Everybody’s in hot water... That’s why he sent his son to rescue us. He took the hot water so that we could live.” (52:24–54:15)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Eduardo conversation: 02:01–12:32
• Joey conversation (computational media): 15:19–31:07
• Mechanical Engineering Student: 32:10–40:23
• Roswell Listener: 44:05–54:54

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Tone and Style

Throughout, Todd Friel maintains a tone that is a mix of playful banter, Socratic questioning, and earnest gospel proclamation. He uses relatable analogies, direct questions, and a persistent focus on the heart and conscience over merely intellectual arguments.

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Summary Flow

• Todd Friel uses live campus witnessing encounters to surface big questions: creation vs. evolution, the nature of human goodness, and the reality of moral guilt.
• With each student, he gently but insistently works through self-assessment (using the Ten Commandments) to show the need for forgiveness and highlight the Christian message of forgiveness through Christ alone.
• Repeatedly, students’ initial confidence in their own goodness is contrasted with the deeper moral demands of the law and the need for grace.
• Friel rebuffs “cheap grace” (just sinning and asking forgiveness without change), arguing that true grace transforms the heart’s desires.
• The episode models a style of evangelism that seeks to stir not just intellectual assent, but personal conviction and spiritual hunger.

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For Those Who Haven't Listened

This episode is a showcase of practical, conversational evangelism. Todd Friel engages a range of students—from the lapsed Catholic and the skeptical evolutionist, to the culturally Christian and the outright indifferent. He respectfully challenges, asks probing questions, shares the Christian gospel with clarity and logic, and appeals to the conscience, not just the intellect. The tone is engaging, provocative, sometimes humorous, and always earnest.

Ultimately, the episode invites listeners—regardless of background—to re-examine their assumptions about science, morality, and ultimate meaning.

Transcript

[Todd Friel]

Hi, this is Todd Friel, executive director of Fortis Institute. Before we get to the podcast, might I encourage you to please join us in not retreating? Perhaps you've noticed in your news feed a lot of pressure on Christians to retreat. Whether it is in the form of legislation, in persecution, or just outright bias, we are determined to stand firm, not water down the truth and continue to make resources that encourage and equip the saints to defend and share their faith. We also love to support an undergird local churches and we are determined to do so. And right now we have a matching gift campaign, which means if you join us now as a gospel partner, your gift will double. Would you please consider joining us on our mission as we are determined to not retreat? Fortisinstitute.org donate.

[Wretched Radio Announcer]

Wretched radio begins in 3, 2, 1.

[Todd Friel]

Evolution is more than a theory. It is a fundamental scientific principle. You know, there's a scientific term for that. It's called baloney. We are so stupid that we think that just because telephones and computers and cars are intelligently designed, that means we are too. Well, we're not. I don't trust that. Richard Dawkins. In the beginning, God created heaven and the earth is the only logical explanation. Unless you don't want to believe in science and logic.

[Wretched Radio Announcer]

It's time for Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Todd Friel]

How's your self esteem? Mine's really good. Welcome to Witness Wednesday. This is Wretched Radio at Georgia Tech, and I'm feeling very good about myself. There's a dude walking down the sidewalk here about as tall as me, whose legs, if it were possible, are actually skinnier than mine. Let's see if we can catch up with this young man. Welcome to the program, by the way. Excuse me. Hey, young man, whilst you're walking, could I talk to you on the radio for a minute?

[Eduardo]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Is that okay? How tall are you, dude?

[Eduardo]

Six five.

[Todd Friel]

Six five. No, you're not. Cause I'm taller than you and I'm not 6 5. Brilliant. Yeah, well, I hate to break it to you, but you just did. I'm taller than you. Where are you from, young manna Quest? There was a bit of an accent, but not much. Tell me, what is the. What is the sound they're making up there? Yikes. That's the new student center, right? No, no, it's not. What is it?

[Eduardo]

The undergraduate learning common.

[Todd Friel]

Got it. So in Venezuela, not that anybody can hear us anyway. What is the major religion there? I presume it's Roman Catholic. Is that correct?

[Eduardo]

That's Right. Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

So are you Roman Catholic?

[Eduardo]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Are you a practicing Roman Catholic?

[Eduardo]

Not that much.

[Todd Friel]

Not that much? Why not?

[Eduardo]

I don't know. Usually when we are kids we practice

[Todd Friel]

and when we grow, you wander away.

[Eduardo]

Ye.

[Todd Friel]

You do what your parents tell you and then when you become a man.

[Eduardo]

Yeah, I mean my parents also, they don't practice. So it's like.

[Todd Friel]

So you don't care. So did you believe any of that stuff when you were growing up? About God? The afterlife? Yeah.

[Eduardo]

I mean, I believe in God, but I just don't go to church. Alright, that's it.

[Todd Friel]

So who do you think God is? Describe him or her for me.

[Eduardo]

I don't know. There are no words to describe God.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, talk to me about the afterlife. Heaven, hell. What do you think there is?

[Eduardo]

Well, I'm not pretty sure about that. I mean, there may be afterlife, they may not.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, if there is, where do you suppose you'd go?

[Eduardo]

Heaven.

[Todd Friel]

Of course. I haven't met anybody who's ever said hell, but. Okay. You think heaven, huh?

[Eduardo]

Yeah, sure.

[Todd Friel]

How come?

[Roswell Listener]

I don't know.

[Eduardo]

I'm a good person.

[Todd Friel]

You think so? Do you? Well, you seem like a friendly enough fella, but are you really good?

[Eduardo]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, so let me get this right. And.

[Eduardo]

Not bad. I mean.

[Todd Friel]

All right, so let me just. Let me just. Let me just check this out a little bit. You're going to stand before God when you die, who opens up the books on your Venezuelan life. He sees everything that you've ever done, right? Everything in darkness, every thought you've ever had, everything you fail to do. Is he going to determine you're a good person? Really?

[Eduardo]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

So do you think that you've been morally pure with your thought life? Yeah. You never lust?

[Eduardo]

Never what?

[Todd Friel]

To see a woman and have sexual desires, that would be to lust.

[Eduardo]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah, you do that.

[Eduardo]

Yeah, but I mean that is in human nature. You cannot avoid that.

[Todd Friel]

Well, no, it could be. That could be human nature. But that's irrelevant if you do it. That's not being morally pure. Right?

[Eduardo]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Do you ever tell lies?

[Eduardo]

True.

[Todd Friel]

No. That might be much.

[Eduardo]

Not, I mean, not bad. Lies that hurt people.

[Todd Friel]

Right.

[Eduardo]

Not. Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. So that would be another strike against you, wouldn't it?

[Eduardo]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

What's your first name, by the way?

[Eduardo]

Eduardo.

[Todd Friel]

Eduardo. Okay, so not morally pure. And you use your mouth sometimes to tell lies. Have you ever taken God's name in vain? Do you know what that means? To blaspheme God's name?

[Eduardo]

Yes, I have. I haven't done that.

[Todd Friel]

Never. Like an omg Never using the name of Jesus, anything like that?

[Eduardo]

Never.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, good. Have you ever stolen anything? You sure? Even as a kid? From your parents? No. From a sibling? Not really. How's about this one? Have you ever murdered anybody?

[Eduardo]

No.

[Todd Friel]

Which is a good thing.

[Roswell Listener]

Okay.

[Todd Friel]

Have you ever though been angry at somebody driving down the road on a Venezuelan freeway, you think they're an idiot or you called them a worse name?

[Eduardo]

Yeah, it happens.

[Todd Friel]

Oh, I know, it happens. Right, okay. Because Jesus said you don't have to commit murder, but when you are just angry at somebody, the Bible says that that's just like murder of the heart because it's what's going on in your heart and in your head. Now obviously to physically murder somebody is worse. But the point is God judges really deep and purity of thoughts and words and deeds. So do you think that God has always been first in your life, Eduardo? That he's been number one priority for you?

[Eduardo]

Not always. Definitely not.

[Todd Friel]

Alright, so dude, the Bible says that you should examine yourself. Not me, I'm not your examiner. You should examine yourself to see if you are in the truth. Because sometimes we can be self deceived, we can be going through life thinking one thing, but then truth gets revealed to us and we have to correct our thinking. So do you think really if God examined you on the day of judgment, that he's going to agree with you and say, yep, Eduardo has been perfectly good.

[Eduardo]

Not perfect, but good enough? I think nobody's perfect.

[Todd Friel]

I agree with you. Nobody's perfect. But that doesn't mean that God should give a pass to everybody. Yeah, right. So if God judged you on the standard, what I was taking you through was the ten Commandments, by the way. I don't know if you recognize that, but I was taking you through the ten Commandments, God's standard for perfection. If he judged you based on that standard, not your standard, not my standard, but God's standard 10 commandments, would you be innocent or guilty, Eduardo?

[Eduardo]

I don't know. Maybe guilty.

[Todd Friel]

Well, if you've lied and lusted and been angry and God hasn't been first and you've been an idolater, then you'd definitely be guilty, wouldn't you? Yep, I would be definitely guilty. So if you're definitely guilty and God is good and he's just Eduardo, what do you think God should do with you? Take you to heaven or should he send you to hell?

[Eduardo]

I'm not pretty sure. I mean, I don't believe that much that either we're going to heaven or hell.

[Todd Friel]

So Right.

[Joey]

I don't.

[Todd Friel]

I understand. But if he judged you based on that standard and you were guilty, where would you go?

[Eduardo]

Maybe hell. But, I mean, if I have to be someone I am not just to be, just to go to heaven, I'd rather be myself and go to hell, so.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah, well, you are being yourself. That's. I mean, I understand that, but the consequences for being yourself would be that you're going to hell.

[Eduardo]

Probably. Probably not.

[Todd Friel]

Probably. Probably not. Why would God give you a pass? Why would God say, even though you've broken my laws, Eduardo, I'm gonna let you into heaven? Why would he do that?

[Eduardo]

I don't know. He's merciful.

[Todd Friel]

But if he just showed you mercy, he'd be corrupt at the same time, because it's like a judge who lets a guilty criminal go. He might be nice, but he's not just anymore. Right. Okay. What if somebody paid your fine? Let's say that you had a fine, a debt against God, and somebody paid it for you. Then could God take you to heaven? If somebody made up for all the sins that you've committed, then you could go to heaven, couldn't you?

[Eduardo]

I guess not. I mean, it doesn't work like that, I think.

[Todd Friel]

Well, if you were standing in a courtroom and you owed the judge a million bucks.

[Eduardo]

Well, if you're talking about Jesus.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, yeah, there you go. That's what I'm hinting at. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So if Jesus paid your fine, then you could go to heaven, not because of what you've done, but because of what he's done. You've broken the law and Jesus paid your fine for you. Now, that would be exceedingly good news, wouldn't it? Yeah, you're guilty, but Jesus kept all the laws and all the commandments was beaten on your behalf so that you could have your fine paid and you could have your sins forgiven. That's the good news of the gospel, right? So you, a guilty criminal, can be set free by God himself because of his goodness. Now, that's pretty good news, isn't it?

[Eduardo]

Yeah, sure. If it is true.

[Todd Friel]

If it is true, you are correct. Yeah. So maybe we part company with that thought. If it is true. Right now, Eduardo, it sounds like you'd be going to hell, right?

[Eduardo]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

But if it's true, God's also willing to forgive you if you repent. Do you know what that word means? Do you remember? What does it mean to feel bad

[Eduardo]

for what you did?

[Todd Friel]

Part of it. Right. But if I punched you in the nose and felt bad and Punched you in the nose again. That's not repentance, right?

[Eduardo]

Yeah. I mean, not doing it again.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah. Turning from your sins and you put your trust in Jesus. And the Bible says when you do that, God actually will change you from the inside out and he'll forgive you and he'll grant you everlasting life based on what Jesus did on your behalf. If it's true, Right? So, dude, I know you're here, you're from out of the country and you're learning lots of stuff. How old are you? About 21?

[Eduardo]

26.

[Todd Friel]

26. You're an old man. So you're 26 years old and you're probably thinking about stuff like this at least a little bit, trying to figure out what's going on. True, what is right. Jesus said, I am the way, the truth and the life. Every other religion is wrong, he said, but Jesus, you should figure out if that's true. Okay, I'm going to walk away from you. You're never going to see me again. Most likely, I'm a complete stranger. But basically, what I've been saying, you've maybe heard some of these things before. Okay?

[Joey]

All right.

[Todd Friel]

So ponder it as if your eternity depended on it. Because Jesus said, what is it profit a man if he gains the whole world, but he loses his very soul? So you go to school, you become an engineer, whatever it is that you're doing here, and you get all rich, you buy a big house and you have a wife and kids, but you die and go to hell. Means nothing all of a sudden, right? So think about your soul and think about your eternity. Listen to your conscience. And if it troubles you that you're in big trouble, if you agree with God that you're not a good person, you're a bad person, person who can be forgiven by a good God, repent and put your trust in him. Don't take my word for it. You can find a Bible, right? Sure. Read it. See if what I'm saying is true. Try the Gospel of John on for size. All right. Hey, young man, thanks for the chat. Appreciate it very much. See you. Goodbye. I wish I could have seen Eduardo kind of squirming, kind of wiggling. As well he should have, because hopefully his conscience was doing a work. And what a sad thing, too. Here's another young man who went to church. Never, never, I'm certain, never heard the good news put like that. I'd bet the farm, if I had one, that he never heard the good news like that. We're at Georgia Tech. This is Witness Wednesday on Wretched Radio.

[Jimmy Hicks]

Most men don't make one big decision that takes them off course. No, it happens gradually, and eventually you look up and you real. I've been coasting for years. Well, Dr. Adam Tyson has created Walk Like a Man. It's available now on Fortis Plus. Dr. Tyson knows that's the story for way too many guys right now. And so he gets into God's word and he lays out what it actually looks like to walk with wisdom and live with real conviction. And the way he teaches it, you'll walk away from every episode knowing exactly what to do and why it matters. This is biblical teaching that puts solid ground under your feet and gives you a clear path forward. It's streaming right now, with new episodes dropping every Monday on Fortis for free. Download the Fortis app right now. Wherever you download apps on your smartphone, your smart TV, or just go to fortisplus.org and walk like a Man.

[Todd Friel]

Perhaps you've been wondering, is there a Christian university that isn't woke or that hasn't compromised on important biblical doctrines like, you know, the age of the earth? There is. It's the Master's University in Southern California. Beautiful campus. All of the athletics and activities that you've come to expect from universities. But it's more than that. The academic programs are most excellent. Preparing students for the future. The Washington Post just said number six for preparing students for the real world. All that, plus the Master's university isn't woke and it is thoroughly biblical. Would you like to learn more? I encourage you to visit the Master's University at Masters. Edu Wretched. Masters. Edu Wretched.

[Wretched Radio Announcer]

Important dates in Christian history. 1536. John Calvin publishes the Institutes of the Christian Religion, the most substantial theological work of the Reformation. Calvin's ideas would deeply influence church and politics in Switzerland and Scotland and take root in the newly discovered North America. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Todd Friel]

This is Witness Wednesday. It's Wretched Radio at Georgia Tech. Okay, there's another dude in pajamas. What's up with this? Is it pajama day here? Hey, dude, is it pajama day here or something? I'm seeing people walk around here in pajamas. Okay. Is it some, like, kooky pajama day?

[Joey]

I have no idea.

[Todd Friel]

You don't know? I would like to thank you for actually wearing pants. That's. Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that very much. Are you going to school here?

[Joey]

Yes.

[Todd Friel]

Will you talk to me on the radio for a minute?

[Joey]

Sure.

[Todd Friel]

What are you Studying?

[Joey]

I'm computational media.

[Todd Friel]

I have no idea what that means.

[Joey]

Dude, it's a lot like computer science, but with arts.

[Todd Friel]

Do you think I'm gonna set you up for something? Okay. Because you might smell this one coming. I'm gonna set you up. So I'm giving you fair warning that that work. To design a program in order to make it work. Do you think that a program like that could happen all by itself?

[Joey]

Well, no, actually, let's say that there

[Todd Friel]

are billions of years. Do you think that that could program itself?

[Joey]

Not without some type of human to program a program that could program.

[Todd Friel]

Do you believe in evolution or creation? See how I set you up there?

[Joey]

Yeah, I see that. What do you believe in evolution? Definitely.

[Todd Friel]

Hmm. Evolution, the concept that nothing designed. All this intricate design stuff. Yeah, but you just said that it takes a designer. Yeah, but not for you. No, what's the difference?

[Joey]

Because programs cannot be randomly generated.

[Todd Friel]

I agree. Neither can you. So wouldn't you be created too?

[Joey]

No, there's actually a lot of evidence that goes against the designer aspect of whatever we're actually talking about.

[Todd Friel]

Well, we'll hold on to that for a second, but I thought I just logic to you, I thought I just gave you a reason which an evolutionist should be fond of. Right?

[Joey]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

So let me suggest that. What's your first name? You're a nice guy. What's your first name?

[Joey]

I'm Joey.

[Todd Friel]

Joey, nice to meet you. Now, Joey, I'm just guessing there must be a different reason for your desire to believe in evolution, because you and I are like this close and yet we part. I believe in God. You believe in, I presume, know God?

[Joey]

Yes.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, so how come you suppose we're looking at the same evidence? We're logicing through it, we seem to be going to the same conclusion, and then you go whoop de do nothing, designed it. Nobody made anything. And I say, well, wait a second. If we're going to be consistent, somebody had to design it. Somebody had to make this stuff. What do you suppose it is that causes you to lean toward evolution rather than God creating the world?

[Joey]

Because programs don't really create themselves. They cannot think like we would. Like, programs don't exist in a natural world.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah, right, exactly. Same thing with you, dude. You had to be made. You don't just like abstractly come out of nowhere. Somebody had to go, I'm gonna make something and I'm gonna make it look like that.

[Joey]

And that was my mom and my dad.

[Todd Friel]

All right, and let's just do a little Infinite regress here. Somebody had to come up with the whole idea and design it and make it all work. All right, so when I'm getting more

[Joey]

of a trial and error process.

[Todd Friel]

Did you go to church as a kid?

[Joey]

A couple times, actually.

[Todd Friel]

Yes. A couple of times. All right, I'm going to lay this one out. Don't take a poke at me. Okay. I'm going to tell you why. The Bible says you believe what you believe. Okay.

[Joey]

All right.

[Todd Friel]

You believe the idea of evolution because you think, you perceive that it accounts for no God, that God wasn't needed for any of this. Therefore I have no God. I'm accountable to no one. And there are no rules that I need to adhere to. Therefore I can do whatever I want to. I believe Immanuel Kant said something very similar to that. The idea is no God, no rules. If Joey can figure out a way to suppress what is pretty obvious, you got a design, there's a designer, the creation is screaming at you that God exists. You can suppress that truth so you can live in unrighteousness. There you go.

[Joey]

I don't agree with that, actually.

[Todd Friel]

Why not?

[Joey]

Because I, following following your model there, I wouldn't have any type of morality, no sense of social interaction or anything like that. And I mean, just through interactions with people, non religious, religious, whatever. I mean, I obviously have some type of sense of what I should be doing with my life.

[Todd Friel]

I agree. And I think it's called a conscience.

[Joey]

I mean, that's why I'm here, going to college, right?

[Todd Friel]

Yep. And I also think, though, that. That if you could, though if you had your druthers, there's a lot of things you would probably be inclined to do if there was no threat of punishment or being ashamed in front of society that what's going on now, on the outside, you're pretty cleaned up cup, but on the inside, I'm guessing inside of your heart, there's a lot of stuff going on in there.

[Joey]

Yeah. I mean, I believe in humanity and I believe in being together and whatnot and living together and not wronging people by any means. But I don't think that's implanted by any type of higher being or anything.

[Todd Friel]

I'm ready for this. I'm going to try to convert you right, right now. Okay. All right, Ready? Here we go.

[Eduardo]

Try your hardest.

[Todd Friel]

I'm gonna. I'm gonna try to. I'm even going to tell you my strategy. I'm going to go around that big intellect of yours. Okay. All the smart stuff that you got going on with the computation and the things that you do with the program and the stuff.

[Joey]

Right.

[Todd Friel]

I'm going right around that. And I'm going to try to get to your conscience. Might be a little dead right now, but I'm going to try to put some paddles on it to give it a little jolt. Okay. I want to dig inside of your heart. All right. Joey, how many times have you told a lie?

[Joey]

Many times.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, so if I told many lies, what name would you give to me? What would you call me?

[Joey]

I don't know.

[Todd Friel]

Your name actually rhymes with pants on fire. My name is Todd. Okay, but you'd say Todd, you're a liar. Liar. Your pants are on fire because you tell lots of lies. Right? Right. So you would be a. I would

[Joey]

be a person who lies.

[Todd Friel]

A liar. Right. How many things have you stolen in your life, Joey?

[Joey]

Very few things. And that was adolescence.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah. It doesn't matter, though. Yeah, right. Doesn't matter. Even the quality or the price of the object. God's looking at your heart and it's stealing. He's not impressed if it's a million dollars or a million toothpicks. This doesn't matter to God. It's your heart. So you've stolen. That would make you a thief. Rock on. Lust. Purity of heart. Right. Lusting it with women. Yeah. Do you do that?

[Joey]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, so God knows that, too. Have you ever blasphemed God's name?

[Joey]

Yes.

[Todd Friel]

So you've done that. All right, here's the deal. You will die one day. God will not just call your number. He's going to kill you, because that's how you die. Because right now he's sustaining your life. He's giving you air. He's letting everything flow through your body and work. He's going to make that stop. You will die. You'll stand before him. He opens up the books on Joey's life. Joey, will you be innocent or guilty before God?

[Joey]

Well, if God is a forgiving God, I don't think it would matter.

[Todd Friel]

Innocent or guilty.

[Joey]

I don't believe in ultimatums. I always believe everything is in the gray.

[Todd Friel]

Well, I don't know that you can get away with that in court. If they've got all this in court. You're talking about God, the just judge of all the world who will judge all people according to what they have done. That's why we have such a sense of justice and we like it when criminals get punished. Because it's bad.

[Joey]

Not necessarily.

[Todd Friel]

Okay, well, I don't know about you, but Most of us like justice. We like to see the rapist get punished. We like the murderer who hurt the old grandmother to get what he has coming to him. And so does God. But he's going to go so much deeper. He's going to get liars and thieves and blasphemers and adulterers and idolaters, those who covet and desire things. They're not grateful. He's going to get it all. Innocent or guilty?

[Joey]

I'm still not going to answer that.

[Todd Friel]

Well, if you're like the rest of

[Joey]

us, if God wants to do innocent or guilty, he can choose for himself.

[Todd Friel]

He will. But this is. A wise man thinks this through. Justice. Have I upheld justice? Have I been? Perfectly. And the answer is no. You haven't been. I haven't been. Nobody's been. We'd all be guilty and we'd all deserve hell. That would be right for God to do that to us. That would be just for him to do that, right?

[Joey]

Yeah, in your terms. Exactly.

[Todd Friel]

God's terms. Right. Doesn't matter what my terms are. God's terms. And your conscience right now should be going, those terms are right. That resonates. I've done wrong. I know it. And I know that I deserve to be taken to task for that. I'm trying to get your conscience going, Joey. I'm trying to alarm you and awaken you.

[Joey]

Oh, it's going all right now.

[Todd Friel]

What was that thing that you'd mentioned about forgiveness?

[Joey]

What about it?

[Todd Friel]

You said that God is forgiving. What was that about?

[Joey]

Supposedly? I mean, according to the Bible, right?

[Todd Friel]

You're right. Yes, he is.

[Joey]

So why would he send all these people to hell? Why not give them another shot? If Jesus died for our sins and we never sinned, Jesus died for nothing.

[Todd Friel]

Well, close. All right. God so loved the world, he gave us logic.

[Joey]

Right there, isn't it? Aren't you a man of logic? Weren't you trying to logic me here?

[Todd Friel]

Alright, I'll try to. Okay. God has given a million chances to you already.

[Joey]

Okay, so you believe in rebirth.

[Todd Friel]

Not in the same way you're thinking right now. I do, but I'm thinking spiritually and you're maybe thinking physically or reincarnation. God has spoken to you every single day through the creation. The Bible says God created the world and day after day it speaks to you. Joey. I made this place. Wake up, man. Wake up. I made it. I'm your maker and you haven't listened. He's been preaching to you every single time you've taken a step or a breath.

[Joey]

Right?

[Todd Friel]

So he's given you a million chances already, and he's coming, given you a conscience for you to listen to it and go, whoa, okay, there's a creator. I've got a conscience. This is not looking good for me. I better figure out who that creator is so that I can be made right with that creator. Otherwise I'm in big trouble. So he's preached to all of us a bazillion times. We just don't like to listen because the place that it leads is scary. The idea of meeting God who is just and a consuming fire, that's a scary thought. All right. Have I done anything for your conscience today?

[Joey]

Not necessarily.

[Todd Friel]

Where are you walking right now?

[Joey]

To go grab some lunch over there?

[Todd Friel]

All right, will you let me do a commercial and we can wrap this up in just a few minutes? You know how this works. Oh, because remember, I'm a Christian and we're about making money. So we got to sell the commercials so I can drive a fancy car and have a diamond ring.

[Joey]

All right, let's get cut into commercial.

[Todd Friel]

I'm gonna. All right, I'll walk with you, though. I'll walk with you, though. It'll only take a minute. Just hang in there. This is Wretched Radio,

[Jimmy Hicks]

and it's now time for your daily Fortis news break, a production of Fortis Institute. The pro life movement has been racking up wins at the state level in Iowa. The heartbeat law there, which took effect last July, has already driven abortions down 35% in the state. Drug induced abortions still account for 81% of the total, which is exactly why states like Mississippi passed a bill criminalizing the mailing of abortion pills as a felony drug trafficking offense. The legislation targets out of state doctors using the mail to circumvent Mississippi's near total abortion ban. And in Tennessee, Sen. Marsha Blackburn has asked the IRS to investigate whether Planned Parenthood is abusing its tax exempt status by selling Botox injections. That's right. The largest affiliate in Northern California launched a cosmetics program to offset an estimated $100 million revenue gap after losing federal Medicaid funding to Indiana now, where Mike Braun signed two bills aimed squarely at protecting children. The first increases penalties for child sex predators who exploit children through abuse material and creates new offenses for distributing it. The second bill, it requires parental consent for children under 16 to use social media. A California jury recently found Meta and YouTube liable in a landmark social media addiction trial. So the evidence for action keeps mounting while too many states keep stalling. And in New Mexico, a veteran teacher is blowing the lid off what's actually happening inside America's classrooms. And in it explains a lot about why Gen Z is struggling so much. Paula Edwards is her name. She described a system where negative behavior is ignored, positive behavior is bribed with prizes, and students are passed along regardless of performance. Obama era discipline policies treated any form of correction as potential discrimination. And while those were revoked federally during Trump's first term, many states still operate under the same failed philosophy. Perhaps most disturbing is the Bureau of Indian Education. Their schools are teaching Native American children how to fill out welfare applications instead of teaching them how to read. And a new analysis from the Daily Wire has connected America's falling birth rate to something deeper than economics. The fertility crisis is really a marriage crisis, a faith crisis, and a meaningful crisis all wrapped up together. As our country grows more and more secular every day, children are becoming less and less common. And it's not because people don't want them. It's because they've lost any type of worldview that makes family life feel possible. And that wraps up today's Fortis News break. I'm Jimmy Hicks. If you want more, you can download Fortis plus or sign up to become a Fortis Insider for exclusive daily content. Both can be [e-mail] and also, don't forget, you can subscribe to Fortis News on your favorite podcast app in order to get these updates daily. And until tomorrow, go serve your king.

[Wretched Radio Announcer]

Books of the Bible Zephaniah begins with a shocking prophecy that God will sweep away everything from the face of the earth. But in the midst of judgment, God offers hope of salvation. Zephaniah gives us a picture of God's terrible wrath and reminds us of the wrath Jesus took upon himself for our sake. Flee to the Savior and be saved. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Todd Friel]

Make this snappy. Joey's in a hurry. Joey, I'm going to give this to you really quick, okay? All right. Hopefully we just concluded you're a bad guy like the rest of us. You deserve God's wrath. But you mentioned something about forgiveness and Jesus dying for sinners. You're right. God is just and he'll give you what you need deserve. But he's kind and he's merciful and he wants to save you. But in order to uphold justice, there has to be somebody to pay your fine. Because if he just forgives you without a fine payer, he's no longer just so that God can be Just and the justifier of those who believe. He sent his son, born of a virgin, to live under the law, to keep all the laws you've broken. To be brutally beaten to die on a cross for you, Joey, so that your sins could be put on him and his goodness could be credited to your account. That's the good news of the gospel. Okay? You can die and go to heaven not because of your goodness. You can die and not go to hell because of your badness. Because Jesus took your badness and provides you with goodness so that you can go to heaven and be with God. So that Jesus can get all the credit for saving a rotten guy like you and me. Right? That's the good news of the gospel. All right, now, here's what you got to do the in response to that. Not just go, that's nice. It works for the tall skinny guy. That's his truth. It's truth. And you should respond not in fear of hell, but because God is so willing to save you from hell. And that's amazing kindness. You need to repent and put your trust in him. So you're sorry, turn from your sins, put your trust in his son. And then, Joey, you'll go to heaven because of Jesus. And your conscience will be cleansed, your sins will be forgiven.

[Eduardo]

Okay? Right.

[Todd Friel]

You've been patient. It's been a delight talking, you know, I mean it.

[Joey]

All right, thanks.

[Todd Friel]

All right, goodbye. We are at Georgia Tech. And I gotta tell you one, one quick thing about Joey. I don't know if you heard the earlier part where I said, I'm gonna. I'm trying to wake up your conscience. And he said, well, you have. And as best I can tell. But if I were reading that body language right, his. His lip was quivering. Sometimes that can happen when people are nervous because there's a microphone in their face. Face. That could be one of the reasons. Have to admit that. Or it could be that he was just getting startled. And I've seen that plenty of times too. Best I could tell based on the visual cue, I gave him the gospel, even though his mouth said, I don't care. His physiology, I think that's the right word, said I do care. And so I gave him the gospel, so you got to watch for those things too. Because we should desire to give the good news of the gospel. We're at Georgia Tech and I'm telling you, I don't want to see any more pajamas. I just. All right, let me ask this dude what's going on here? Although he's Listening to his headphones. Excuse me. Hey, while you're walking, could I talk to you on the radio for a moment?

[Mechanical Engineering Student]

Sure.

[Todd Friel]

Is it pajama day here at Georgia Tech?

[Mechanical Engineering Student]

I have no idea. I've been seeing people without shoes on all day, too.

[Eduardo]

All right.

[Todd Friel]

So what are you studying here at Georgia Tech?

[Mechanical Engineering Student]

Mechanical engineering.

[Todd Friel]

You want to be a mechanical engineer?

[Mechanical Engineering Student]

Yes.

[Todd Friel]

You go to the office, it's nine o'. Clock. You punch in the card and what do you do for the next eight hours?

[Mechanical Engineering Student]

I hope to. How do I say this? Work on engines for traveling, I guess, more or less out of the Earth.

[Todd Friel]

So, space stuff.

[Mechanical Engineering Student]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Do you think there's life out there? There's a chance. How big's the chance?

[Mechanical Engineering Student]

I mean, the universe is pretty big. So I'd say it's better than 50% chance that there's. No, definitely.

[Todd Friel]

There is not. What now? What if now, what evidence do we have that there's any life out there right now at all? Zero.

[Mechanical Engineering Student]

That we have.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah, right. But just because there's a lot of space out there, you take zero times a bazillion and you still get zero.

[Mechanical Engineering Student]

Okay, but then again, you could also say that how come only one planet out of

[Todd Friel]

all of them? Billions and billions.

[Mechanical Engineering Student]

Yeah. I mean, a really big number can only contain one form of life.

[Todd Friel]

Well, I. I have a. I have an idea about that.

[Mechanical Engineering Student]

What is that?

[Todd Friel]

I think God made this planet true. And made you and me and everything on it.

[Mechanical Engineering Student]

That is very true.

[Todd Friel]

So there you go.

[Mechanical Engineering Student]

If you go with that way. Yes, but keeping an open mind as a scientist. Because of course, you're at Georgia Tech.

[Joey]

So.

[Todd Friel]

Yes, you have to do that.

[Mechanical Engineering Student]

Yes, you have to keep.

[Todd Friel]

Otherwise you fail everything. So what religion are you, young man?

[Mechanical Engineering Student]

I'm Catholic.

[Todd Friel]

Tell me as a Catholic, why should I become a Catholic? Sell me. I want to sign up for the Catholic club. Give me a good reason.

[Mechanical Engineering Student]

That is very difficult. Actually, I don't really have a really good reason. I mean, I personally, I don't really follow it too much, but I do follow along. As in religion, mostly. As in Christianity, I guess, is more my broad. I was raised Catholic, but I believe in just Christianity mostly.

[Todd Friel]

All right, let me try this and see what you think of this. All right. Going back to God making this world, we need to ask ourselves the question, why did God make this world? What was the point? Why did he do this?

[Mechanical Engineering Student]

Boredom, maybe.

[Todd Friel]

How's about this? God has attributes that require an object to demonstrate those attributes. For instance, God is love. But as a Christian, you would Say that he's Father, Son, and Holy Spirit so he can love himself and demonstrate that attribute and enjoy himself. But he has other attributes that are relational. Mercy, grace, loving kindness. And he doesn't need to show those attributes to himself because he does not need mercy, grace, or loving kindness. So those attributes that he possesses cannot be put on display unless there is an object of mercy, grace, and loving kindness. So I believe that God created the world, put a couple of people in a garden, they disobeyed, throwing the whole world into sin, including you and me. We're bad people. We're not good. And we are in such desperate trouble because we've broken all of God's laws, that we deserve his wrath, that unless he shows us mercy, grace, and loving kindness, we will perish. And so it is he sent his son, Jesus, to die for sinners like you and me, so that if we will respond rightly in repentance and faith, God will show us mercy, grace, and loving kindness, forgive all of our sins and grant us everlasting life. And that way for all of eternity. He could point to a guy like you or me as an example of how kind and good he is. That's why God created the world.

[Mechanical Engineering Student]

It's a very good way of thinking about it. I like that.

[Todd Friel]

So let me ask you a question, young man. Would you consider yourself to be a good person?

[Mechanical Engineering Student]

Depends really on the topic.

[Todd Friel]

How's it about compared to the topic of the Ten Commandments? Probably not. Okay, You've lied.

[Mechanical Engineering Student]

Yes, I have.

[Todd Friel]

Stolen?

[Mechanical Engineering Student]

No.

[Todd Friel]

Ever?

[Mechanical Engineering Student]

Never.

[Todd Friel]

Even as a child, downloading music late for work?

[Mechanical Engineering Student]

Oh, I guess. Downloading music? Yes, I've done that. As far as actually picking up with

[Todd Friel]

my hands, doesn't matter because it's a heart issue.

[Mechanical Engineering Student]

Not so much.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah, God's not impressed if you steal this escape hybrid or this old Lincoln here, It's about your heart, not the value of the object. Have you lusted?

[Mechanical Engineering Student]

Yes.

[Todd Friel]

Have you ever blasphemed God's name

[Mechanical Engineering Student]

out of anger? Probably once or twice. But then I said, sorry after.

[Todd Friel]

All right, but you've done that. You've taken God's precious name and dragged it through the mud. And that's why he says, I will not hold him blameless who takes my name in vain. All right, so the topic, the situation was the Ten Commandments. You've broken at least four of the Ten that we just went through. I just asked you before if you thought you were a good person, and you said, pretty good. But a person who lies and lusts and Blasphemes and steals, really isn't a good person, is he?

[Mechanical Engineering Student]

That is true. But if you take into every person on the earth, there's not one person on this earth right now that has not done that.

[Todd Friel]

You have just quoted a Bible verse. There is nobody who. Who does good. No. Not one. You're right. We're all sinners. We're all bad. That's why he made us, so that he could rescue us. But making sure that you are his child starts with understanding that as an unregenerate sinner, you're not his child. You're a rebel at heart. I think salvation, true salvation. If you've ever wondered about this, what does it really mean to be in our first Christian? I think it starts with a correct understanding of who God is and who we are and that we're not good people at all. We're really, to the core, quite wicked and quite rebellious.

[Mechanical Engineering Student]

That's true.

[Todd Friel]

And until we start there, for a lot of people, Christianity is kind of something that they try or play with because they think it's the right thing to do. They grew up that way. Society demands that they want their kids to behave, but that's not what God is looking for. He wants to rescue sinners. Jesus said he didn't come to heal those who thought they were well, but those who understand that they're sick. Dude, I don't know where you're at with your personal salvation, but I would challenge you today to examine yourself and see if you're in the truth. Okay? And it starts with really look carefully at your heart. I mean, think about the lusting alone or whether it's been pornography or fornication or stealing or coveting or rebellion to your parents. We don't thank them for food or shoes or for a college education. And let those things start to weigh on you till you realize, I have been such a rebel and God died for me anyway. And it should break your heart and it should cause you to come, come to him in humility to say, God, I'm sorry. I have been all wrong about this. Please forgive me. You turn from your sins. It doesn't mean you become perfect. I'm not saying that. But you have a new attitude about sins and you put your trust in Jesus just like you'd put your trust in a parachute. And God says when you come to him like a little child, not thinking you're good, not thinking you're earning it, but crying out for mercy because you understand that he is good, that's when he Says, I'll save you, I'll rescue you. And then I'm going to point to you for the rest of eternity and say, I saved that guy. That's how good I am. So that God can get all the credit. The Bible says by grace. Are you saved through faith, not of yourself. It is a gift of God, not of works, so that nobody can boast. I don't know if you're in a right relationship with. With God or not. It's not my place to judge. But you know, and if you have never died to yourself, see if you're in the truth and understand that God is willing to rescue you and save you if you will come to him in humility and repentance and faith. Okay?

[Eduardo]

Okay.

[Todd Friel]

All right. Goodbye, young man. It was a pleasure meeting you, too. It's Witness Wednesday at Georgia Tech. This is wretched radio.

[Jimmy Hicks]

369 million. That's how many people are a part of the new apostolic Reformation movement. And if you've never heard of it, that's part of the problem. Maybe you have heard of Jesus culture. Maybe your teenager listens to their worship music. Maybe your church sings their songs on Sunday morning, but you don't know what they actually teach and where it leads. Drunk in the Spirit pulls back the curtain on one of the most destructive forces in Christianity today. Who are these people? What do they believe? And why should it matter to your family and your local church? This isn't fear mongering. It's education. Because you can't guard against something you don't recognize. And this movement has tentacles in places you wouldn't expect. If you care about protecting your family and your church from false teaching. That sounds Christ centered, but it's not. This is essential. Drunk in the Spirit. It is streaming now for free on Fortis. Download the app on your smartphone, on your smart TV, or just simply go to fortisplus.org thanks for listening to Wretched Radio today. Be honest with me for a second. Is your marriage thriving or is it just surviving? Are you and your spouse building something together, or are you just really trying to get through another week without another major blowup? At Fortis Institute, Fellow pastor Brad Bigny hosts a podcast called Thrive. And that's exactly what it's all about. What it looks like for marriages and families to actually flourish instead of just holding it all together. Brad is a pastor. He's a certified biblical counselor and as I said, a Fortis Institute fellow. And he brings decades of experience to helping real couples work through the real stuff. And this is the kind of Christ centered content that we're producing every single day here at Fortis Institute. And it's only made possible because of our gospel partners. And if our ministry has helped you in any type of way, we would love it if you would prayerfully consider joining us as an ongoing monthly gospel partner. Help us reach more families with the truth, truth of God's word. You can find out how right [e-mail] Wretched Amazing Grace Amazing Gospel no Retreats. That's the name of Fortis Institute's Spring Match campaign. And we chose that name for a reason. The church has been quietly backing up for years. A doctrine gets a little uncomfortable, a truth sounds a little too exclusive. So we set it aside and before long, the gospel sounds more like an apology than an announcement. Fortis Institute is determined to push the other direction to encourage churches to hold fast to hard truth and to proclaim the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ rightly and loudly. That's why we're inviting you to join us on the no Retreat Spring Match campaign. Right now through the end of May. Every dollar you give is matched dollar for dollar. And your gift will help launch two new podcasts, publish Todd Frill's new book Go Serve youe King through HarperCollins, and fund gospel proclamation on college campuses. The gospel doesn't move backward, and neither should we. You can find out more right [e-mail] donate.

[Wretched Radio Announcer]

Titles of Christ in the Bible, Jesus is given many titles, titles that teach us about who he is and what he has done. Jesus is called the Son of Man. Daniel chapter seven describes the Son of Man who came from heaven, received worship from all nations, and rules a kingdom that will never be destroyed. Jesus uses this title to affirm that he is fully human and fully divine. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Todd Friel]

This is Witness Wednesday. It's Wretched Radio here at Georgia Tech with a dude who's kind of got a funky head on, who's about ready to eat a piece of pizza. Hey, dude, I hate to do that to you while you're eating a piece of pizza, man. I'm very sorry. I'm like a bad waiter. Could I ask you a question on the radio while you're eating? Sure. Cool. Where are you from?

[Roswell Listener]

Roswell.

[Todd Friel]

Right here in Georgia?

[Roswell Listener]

Yes.

[Todd Friel]

All right. I just was wondering if you're from Roswell, Georgia. This is a part of the Bible Belt, right? Do you happen to be a part of that Bible Belt community? Are you a Bible Belter yourself.

[Roswell Listener]

Not really.

[Todd Friel]

You're not? It's pretty unusual. Most people around here tend to lean toward that being Christian types. You're not one of those?

[Roswell Listener]

I wouldn't consider myself.

[Eduardo]

No.

[Todd Friel]

No, I'll come.

[Roswell Listener]

I don't know. I like to sleep in on Sundays

[Todd Friel]

because it's a better option than going to church. Huh. Did you go to church as a kid?

[Roswell Listener]

Yeah.

[Todd Friel]

Yeah. What did they teach you?

[Roswell Listener]

It's just like a set of morals that I don't like. I don't disagree with them. Like, I don't have a problem with, like, Christians in general. It's just something you don't like.

[Todd Friel]

The rules.

[Roswell Listener]

I don't mind the rules. I just think they can be inconvenient.

[Todd Friel]

I agree with that. Did they ever teach you more than rules? Was that it? Just do this, don't do that. That was it.

[Roswell Listener]

I mean, there's a lot of stories too, right?

[Todd Friel]

Noah and the Ark, Adam and Eve, Jesus, those stories. What was the point of all of that? Did they ever get around to telling you that?

[Roswell Listener]

I think it's, like, basis for their rules. Do this because of, like, this happened with these people a while ago and stuff like that.

[Todd Friel]

All right, I'm gonna do this quick because you're being kind to talk to me. You're putting up with me and you're eating your pizza. Let me. Let me just share an alternative to that, and you can do with it as you see fit. Okay?

[Roswell Listener]

All right.

[Todd Friel]

Here's why the rules were given so that you could see yourself the way that God sees you. Pretty radical thought, right? How old are you?

[Roswell Listener]

21.

[Todd Friel]

21. Because you and I have a tendency to look at people and compare ourselves to people that we see on the news. And we console ourselves by saying, well, I'm not as bad as that rapist. I'm doing pretty good. But God gave rules so that you can could see yourself the way he sees you with his standard. So when he said, don't tell lies, he did that so that every time you told a lie, you could realize, wow, I'm in trouble here. Have you told a lot of lies in your life?

[Roswell Listener]

I don't know.

[Todd Friel]

Probably I have. Have you stolen anything in your luck? Yeah, I have done that too. Have you ever lusted, looked at a woman? Had sexual thoughts, desires that you shouldn't have?

[Roswell Listener]

I guess.

[Todd Friel]

Okay. Because that's that dreaded, you shouldn't commit adultery. But Jesus said if you just look with lust, you've committed adultery in your heart and there's nobody breathing who hasn't done that. Okay, so what's the point? So the point is, good question is that those rules should start to cause you to go, oh, I'm in trouble here. I haven't kept the rules. Just like if you didn't keep the rules here at Georgia Tech, or if you didn't keep the rules in Roswell, you'd be arrested, you'd be in trouble, you'd be punished for breaking the rules. And if you have broken God's rules, you start to get the sense I'm going to get punished. That was the purpose of the rules. Not so that you'd keep them, so that you could think you're a good person, but so that every time you failed them you would understand you're a bad person.

[Roswell Listener]

But they're impossible rules, so why even play the game?

[Todd Friel]

That's exactly why God did it that way. Because it is impossible for us to keep the rules. Because what Christianity is all about isn't just knowing the ark and the flood and those stories. It's telling a story of God desiring to redeem humanity. Because you and I haven't kept the laws. We need somebody to keep the laws on our behalf. We need somebody to take the punishment that we deserve from God so that God can forgive our sins and rescue us from what we deserve from Him. That's what Christianity is about. Christianity is the good news of the gospel. That Jesus kept all the laws that you and I have broken, that Jesus took the punishment that you and I deserve so that God will could forgive us. Because if God just forgave a guy like you without there being a payment for your crimes, then he wouldn't be just, but he's just and the justifier of those who believe. So justice was satisfied when Jesus died for you, a sinner, so that when you stand before God, even though you've racked up a heap of debt, Jesus paid the fine for you on your behalf. And the reason the rules were given was to drive you to the point where, where you look to God to say, I don't do good. I need you to help me. I need you to save me. That's the point of the ten Commandments, that's the point of the rules. To help you to understand that you're a sinner in need of saving and to ask God to have mercy on you. And he will because of what Jesus did. That's the gospel,

[Roswell Listener]

alright? So if no matter what I do, it's already like paid for, and if I like recognize forgiveness and stuff like that then why wouldn't I just do whatever I want, whenever I want, and then just ask for forgiveness at the end of the day?

[Todd Friel]

You would only do that if you don't esteem the sacrifice that Jesus made for you. It would be like a kid who goes out fishing with his dad at a big lake. And dad says, son, I'm going to take you fishing. But here's the deal. I don't want you to go into the boat all by yourself because there's alligators out in those waters and I don't want you to get in trouble. The kid says, okay, but a couple of days of camping go by. Dad's taking a nap in the tent and the kid thinks, ooh, I'd like to go out there. That sure looks exciting. So he gets into the boat all by himself. He finds himself floundering around. All of a sudden, an alligator hits his, hits his boat with his tail, knocks the boat over. The kid finds himself in alligator infested water and they're coming at him and he's screaming for help, Passes out. The next thing he knows, he wakes up on the sand on the beach. He rolls his head and he looks around and he sees across the beach his dad, ripped to shreds. And he concludes, uh, oh, I disobeyed. I was getting what I deserved. Dad must have jumped in the water, rescued me, and he got torn up on my behalf. Now imagine if that kid said, huh, I think I'm gonna go back out in the boat now and play around again. It's say, that kid's nuts. If you understand that Jesus Christ died for you, a sinner, you wouldn't ever want to go do the things that caused him to be crucified on your behalf. It would demonstrate that you're ungrateful and you don't understand the sacrifice that he made for you. When we esteem the sacrifice, when we understand the kindness that was demonstrated to us, then we don't want to sin anymore. We have new desires and new affections that God gives to us. That's why we wouldn't do it. Okay, fair enough.

[Roswell Listener]

Do you believe in evolution?

[Todd Friel]

No. Why not? Because I think God made you and designed you. Here's why I think God made the world, okay? God didn't evolve it. He made it because he had a plan before eternity began. The plan was to make human beings fully formed the way they were, Adam and Eve style. Knowing that we'd sin, knowing that we would rebel against him so that he could send his son to rescue us. God's whole plan is to glorify himself by saving a sinner like you. He made the world so that Jesus could die for you, so that you could be forgiven, so that everyone will point to God for all of eternity and say, God is so amazingly kind. He saved a sinful, wretched man like the kid from Roswell. Here's the question for you, dude, as we part company. Okay. All right. How old are you?

[Roswell Listener]

21.

[Todd Friel]

21. So you're kind of thinking some of these thoughts. Maybe a little. Maybe thinking I'll deal with them when I get out of here and get married. I'm encouraging you to think about them now as you sit here. Here right now. The Bible says the wrath of God abides upon you. You have been keeping up debt with God by sinning, by being ungrateful, by blaspheming his name, by being an idolater, by lusting, maybe doing other sins that are none of my business. And you've piled up wrath. And every day you live, it's like your cup is being filled up with the wrath of God. Someday he will have enough of you and he will grow weary of keeping you alive and he will end your life and he will give you what you deserve and he will pour out his wrath on you. That's a scary thing to ponder. But the good news is everyone's in hot water. Though I agree, you're right. And that's why he sent his son to rescue us. He took the hot water water so that we could live. That's the point of the gospel. And just so you know this, too, please know this. I've been talking about hell and that you. You're going if you don't repent and put your trust in Jesus Christ. But you shouldn't repent and put your trust in Jesus Christ because you're afraid of hell. But because he has been so kind to save you from hell, he died to rescue you. He knew you would sin against him and he died for you anyway. That's kindness. That's goodness. That's amazing grace. And it should be that goodness that leads you to go, God, I'm sorry. Please forgive me. To turn from your sins and put your trust in his son because of his goodness so that you can actually be in a right relationship with God. That's what you should ponder.

[Roswell Listener]

All right.

[Todd Friel]

Food for thought today, Pizza Hut. That's it? Nothing. I haven't made any impact. Nothing.

[Roswell Listener]

I mean, it's not news like you. That's not the first time I've heard that and it probably won't be the last, because I'm sure you probably make rounds or something like that. Sure. And so I've already thought about a lot of this stuff, like, I'm sure you can tell. And so, I mean, you just got to take it as it comes.

[Todd Friel]

Right. Just don't die until it comes. Yeah. Okay.

[Roswell Listener]

I'll try not to, young man.

[Todd Friel]

Thanks for the chat. All right. Goodbye.

[Roswell Listener]

Have a good one.

[Eduardo]

All right.

[Todd Friel]

See ya. Until tomorrow. Go serve your king.