Danny Wallace (2:36)

Hello. Hello. How are you?

Jameela Jamil (2:38)

I'm good. It's so nice to see you both. Sophie, didn't know that Danny was your favorite author until now.

Sophie Hagen (2:46)

He is and has been for a while, so I've always been starstruck around him, which is horrible and embarrassing. I mean, of course, officially my favorite author is, like, Dostoevsky or something like that.

Danny Wallace (2:56)

Of course. Of course.

Sophie Hagen (2:58)

Secretly, of course. Yes man meant the world to me, and I read it several times over many years just because I needed to read it once a year to try and change my life.

Jameela Jamil (3:08)

Same. I like to drag Danny through the story every time I see him, so he has to go like, oh, wow, that's so amazing.

Danny Wallace (3:16)

I'll do it again.

Jameela Jamil (3:17)

Yes, Man. Yeah. Yes man is the only reason I'm on television, because I read that book and it made me go for the audition for Channel 4 and it changed my entire life. And I said yes ever since to everything apart from anal thus far. And he's really responsible for so many of the good and bad things that have happened to me. Maybe I wouldn't even have this podcast if it wasn't for Darnley Wallace. So you have a lot of explaining to do, sir.

Danny Wallace (3:42)

It's not my fault. I just said, you know, say yes more, and here we all are. So we all said yes. Yes.

Jameela Jamil (3:50)

Is it embarrassing to have two superfans who both feel a little shy around you on this podcast?

Danny Wallace (3:57)

No, no, it's great. We all know each other and we were just saying, actually, just before the record, when we all saw each other on the screen for the first time. I mean, Sophie's in a wonderful sort of red and black lumberjack style shirt. And thank God I changed at the last minute because I would have been wearing one of those. And you said as well, Jamila, that you.

Jameela Jamil (4:16)

I also had a red flannel shirt on.

Danny Wallace (4:19)

Yes. And then it would have been awkward because it would have seemed like you were keeping some tabs on what I wear. And we're both dressed as me as well.

Sophie Hagen (4:28)

I feel like it's worse for me because I'm the only one who didn't think, oh, I shouldn't be wearing this in public.

Jameela Jamil (4:34)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not a great feeling. But I'm thrilled to have you both here at the same time when it comes to disaster. I mean, Dani, you wrote multiple books of chaos and disaster, Awkward situations for men 1 and 2 being a perfect offering to the world for everyone. Sophie, you have built a career on disaster. Is it something you have built a friendly relationship with, given that you've both made so much money from it?

Danny Wallace (5:02)

Well, for me, I don't know how it is for Sophie, but for me, there's just a running low level. Like, a lot of the columns that I would write would be about sort of miniature disasters that happened to me or perhaps maybe a thing I said that lived with me in the moment afterwards. And I think that I would then write about it. It's sort of like we all make these mountains out of these molehills, and we go through the sort of the internal monologue and the sort of the, I shouldn't have. Why did I. I will never do that again. And you wake up in a sweat in the night. And really part of growing up as well is realizing that these things don't matter to other people, and the memories get worse in your own head. Whether it is the day that I thought it would be quite fun to, you know, point out that someone's child looked like Hitler, and I thought that that would be sort of quite a playful thing. But it was before. And in my defense, he did. He. He. He'd been eating blueberries, and a little bit of sort of blueberry skin just was right in the middle of his upper lip. And he did look like Hitler. But I didn't have children at the time, and I realized that people don't like you sort of pointing that kind of thing out loudly at a party. So I try and hold my tongue a little bit more now.

Jameela Jamil (6:15)

That's. I mean, that's a great shame. I think that that's a loss for the world, and I think it's becoming too serious a place for that. Sophie, what about you?

Sophie Hagen (6:24)

Yeah. And I think the reason why it has some level of success for all of us and this podcast is successful, and the stories we tell is because people have the same stuff in their heads, and then when you say it out loud, they like to hear about it. Not always. I have, because that's what I do on stage. I tell the embarrassing, horrible things, and then I usually will see people reacting with a, oh, me too. Oh, than, thank God. Then I feel better about my stuff. But then also sometimes I'll share something and there'll be complete silence. Kind of like I imagine the parent of that Hitler child would have had, where you go, oh, no. Oh, this wasn't normal. And then the shame. Recently, I told a story on stage about what one of my main fantasies at school were, which was hooking up with someone I didn't know. And then the morning after, I would go into their kitchen and realize that their parent was one of my teachers. And then I would end up having breakfast with the teacher and become their friend. That's apparently not like a normal thing.

Danny Wallace (7:23)

No, it does. It does happen. That. That moment when you realize that, oh, yeah, someone else kind of. It's the silence when you've said something or something. You know, it's that. It's that pregnant pause where you're like, was that terrible? And it happened once, many years ago, and it was with Louis Theroux, the noted broadcaster, but I didn't really know very well. And we were at some event, and he just was going, I'm just so tired. And again, this was child based. And again, in my defense, it was. I had kids. And he just went. He just went, I'm so tired. And I said, why? And he said, I asked my kid. My kids learned this new noise. And he just keeps going, nip, nip, nip. And it was just all last night, he was just doing it. And then he'd wake up and he was just going. And there was a big, long pause. And in front of all these people, I just went, he sounds like a dick. And there's this awful thing where everyone was just looking at each other and then looking at Louis to work out what could possibly, you know. And thankfully he broke into a smile and it was okay. But again, I just wouldn't recommend talking about other people's children at all, ever.

Jameela Jamil (8:31)

I can't stop. It's compulsive, guys. I can't stop. Any time any parent tells me, like, what they're going through with their child, it is a. I know not to do it in the moment. I'm going, don't do it. Don't do it. I have to compare it to a situation I'm having with my dogs. And it is, it's. It's like a syndrome at this point, point now where I did it just yesterday, talking about the relationship with the second one, how problematic the second one can be because of its entitlement. And no one likes it. It's never gone down well with anyone. No one even tries to comfort me about it. They just look at me like I've just shown them my asshole or something.

Danny Wallace (9:14)

Yeah, never compare them to dogs, Hitler or calling dicks.

Sophie Hagen (9:18)

But I also think we need to just lean into it. Like when I compare children to my dog, I'm always like, you wouldn't get it. You just have a. You know, the child will Grow up and take care of you one day. This boy won't. So actually, you have no idea what it's like. You have no idea what it's like to love this much because you just have a child and mine is fluffy and cuddly.

Jameela Jamil (9:36)

I fucking love a double down. Okay, so can you give me an example of some micro humiliations you might have faced? Like Sophie?

Sophie Hagen (9:44)

Yeah, it even hurts to think about. I have one that's rejection and kissing based, which I think is one of the worst ones you can possibly have. And, yeah, it was about. I leaned in to kiss this guy. In my defense, we had stepped together once, which had also been embarrassing because I knocked my head against his radiator during the act. And I was so embarrassed in the moment that I refused to acknowledge it. So he was, like, you know, trying to, like, oh, my God, are you okay? And, like, let's pause. And I was like, no, no, don't worry about it. Just keep going, keep going. He was like, no, no, you're bleeding. And I was like, shh. No, no, no, it's fine, it's fine. I'm genuinely fine.

Jameela Jamil (10:21)

So were you bleeding from the head?

Sophie Hagen (10:23)

Oh, yeah, I was fully bleeding.

Jameela Jamil (10:24)

And that. That gives you that sort of talented Mr. Ripley, like, bloodshed, right?

Sophie Hagen (10:29)

Yeah, it looked a bit like Carrie from Movie and book Carrie. And he was really trying to, like, let him take care of me. And I was just like, no, I'm absolutely fine. Don't worry about it. Don't give me any attention. But then we stayed, like, friendly after that. And then a couple of years later, I saw him at a bar that had a dance floor, and we ended up dancing. And I was like, okay, what a surprise. He's going for round two. And what I saw was he leaned in for a kiss. So I leaned in, closed my eyes, kissed him, and then felt his head turn away because it wasn't a kiss. It was a dance move.

Danny Wallace (11:09)

Oh.

Sophie Hagen (11:10)

So my lips just, like, dragged along his cheek like this sad snail. And I was so embarrassed that when I, like, got to, like, his ear, this happened in slow motion. When I got to his ear, I just, like, did some kind of dance move that meant that I, like, covered my face with my hands and I, like, crouched down, so I just sat on the floor, like, hiding my face until he left.

Danny Wallace (11:32)

Wow.

Sophie Hagen (11:33)

And I've never seen him since.

Jameela Jamil (11:34)

How long did it take for him to leave?

Sophie Hagen (11:37)

I think like, five or six years. It felt like. It felt so long. And I was just looking at his shoes until they were no longer there in front of me. And then I walked away with no pride.

Danny Wallace (11:49)

What that is, is a physical manifestation of shame. You were that snail dragging yourself across his ear, this wet trail, and then you retreated into what you hoped was a shell and on the floor where you stayed for the rest of the evening. And that is just. That's exactly what it feels like. But you did it and pretended it was a dance.

Jameela Jamil (12:15)

Yeah.

Sophie Hagen (12:15)

Yes. Very classic. You know the classic dance move. The snail.

Danny Wallace (12:18)

Yeah, the snail, yeah.

Sophie Hagen (12:20)

Or you go into hiding.

Jameela Jamil (12:21)

I've never tried to instigate a kiss for the exact terror of that happening to me. I've never instigated a kiss. In fact, I'm so the opposite that people have to sort of physically move my shoulders around towards them and ask them if I'm actually attracted to them. Every single person who's ever kissed me, and that's six people have had to ask if I was actually attracted to them because I was showing no signs. Like, if anything, it's sort of catch me if you can. Which post me too. ERA is obviously a fucking nightmare for everyone involved. So I've just had to stay with James since. Me too.

Danny Wallace (12:59)

I heard over the years that you have to send you a formal letter. Is that right?

Jameela Jamil (13:03)

Yes. Yeah, a formal letter. And then there's an interview process. And then after about nine months, you see if you get through to. And I'm not even, you know, you'd think I'm a great kisser at this point. Like, there's like a really amazing sort of, I don't know, treasure chest at the end of this rainbow hell. But really, I'm very average at everything involved. But I think by that point, you've gone so far in the interview process, you just may as well.

Sophie Hagen (13:32)

I would love to mix up admin with kissing. That would be the biggest turnout, I really think. Do you have a Google form I need to sign before you stick to.

Danny Wallace (13:40)

What you're good at, Sophie. Which is the shame snail.

Sophie Hagen (13:43)

Yes.

Jameela Jamil (13:43)

100% is you have another kissing micro humiliation. Am I right?

Sophie Hagen (13:49)

Yeah. This is more morally horrible where there was a. A comedian and I will not say anything more than he is very famously sexist and misogynist and like a horrible person, but very hot. And there was an evening where we were flirting and I knew I shouldn't. Like, I was like, this is bad. Like, I'm not. This is morally a bad idea. But there was flirting. And then I thought, okay, okay, I'm gonna abandon my principles and my morals and I'm gonna kiss this man. And then we leaned in to kiss each other. And then when he, like, we were so close, you would, like, breathe on each other. He whispered into my mouth. I thought you were a feminist.

Danny Wallace (14:38)

Oh, my goodness.

Sophie Hagen (14:39)

So I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I am. For goodbye.

Jameela Jamil (14:41)

Goodbye.

Danny Wallace (14:42)

Wow, the old mouth whisper.

Jameela Jamil (14:46)

That is foul. What about you, Danny? Any kisses gone wrong?

Danny Wallace (14:51)

I mean, there's always the classic, isn't there, where, you know, you're not quite sure how many kisses on the cheek they're going for. And maybe you get into the rhythm where you're like, this is more than I was expecting, which is anything over one. And then there's a slight clash when you realize you've sort of kissed them on the side of their mouth.

Jameela Jamil (15:07)

Yeah, yeah.

Danny Wallace (15:08)

And all you can really do is go, I just kissed you on the side of your mouth. And then carry on. You just have to state explicitly what's happened. You know, for the record, we both know. And now we can crack on.

Jameela Jamil (15:21)

I do that whenever I accidentally sort of graze someone's breast or penis. I feel the need to immediately announce it and somehow in my head that'll cancel it out. Be like, oh, my God, I'm scissor. Did I just graze your dick?

Danny Wallace (15:32)

Yeah.

Jameela Jamil (15:33)

And then it makes the whole thing so much worse.

Sophie Hagen (15:36)

I need to know it's an accident.

Danny Wallace (15:38)

Yes, exactly.

Sophie Hagen (15:39)

Again, you should double down and be like, yeah, and I'll do it again.

Jameela Jamil (15:42)

Yeah, yeah, great. That'll go down so well in this modern day climate.

Danny Wallace (15:45)

But it's much better to do it in the past tense than in the future. If you're saying I'm going to and then say that, that's probably reportable to the police.

Jameela Jamil (15:56)

Yeah. I was wondering, because the onus is on men to predominantly be the leader in the kiss. Dani, what's going through a man's head when he's having to figure that out? I've always wanted to know what that must feel like. You know, you're assessing the way that the person's looking at you. How does that feel to instigate from memory?

Danny Wallace (16:21)

I think it's a series of noises, really. It's kind of like, uh, oh, is it? Is, is it? Oh, yes. Do you say oh, you're saying it in your head because that's all you can really say. And then it either works or it doesn't.

Jameela Jamil (16:37)

Right, right, right.

Sophie Hagen (16:38)

What an insight.

Danny Wallace (16:39)

That's the insight. And then at the last second, what you do is you whisper into their mouth.

Jameela Jamil (16:44)

Yeah. I thought you Were supposed to be a fool. What a cunt. What a massive, massive cunt that man is. Jesus Christ. I. I can't give or receive any signals of interest, so I. I bought a traffic light for the bedroom, and it's one that you can press the top of. And so if somebody wants to have sex with me, they would have to press the top of the traffic light. And then I'll let you know if the light is green. Well, that's smart, because that's how I know you're interested. Then you can gauge my interest. It's. It's whatever the exact opposite of porn is. Is my life.

Danny Wallace (17:23)

It sounds like one of those restaurants where you have to hold up a flag if you want more pizza.

Jameela Jamil (17:28)

Wait, what restaurant is that?

Danny Wallace (17:30)

There's all these new restaurants. They're like, called bottomless pizzas or something. And then you buy one pizza, then you hold up a little flag, and it means, I'm ready to receive pizza. That's what you're doing.

Sophie Hagen (17:39)

Oh, I'm gonna bring one of those hats where you can put a flag in 100%.

Jameela Jamil (17:43)

Yeah.

Sophie Hagen (17:44)

Constant. Bring me more, please. Always ready for more.

Jameela Jamil (17:48)

Oh, my goodness.

Danny Wallace (17:50)

I bring my own flags from home.

Sophie Hagen (17:52)

Yeah, Yeah, I bring my bedroom flags, which I also use for sex.

Jameela Jamil (17:55)

Well, I'll send you both a traffic light if you need that for anything. I highly recommend it for anyone out there who finds it awkward to give or receive signals. Danny, what's your micro humiliation?

Danny Wallace (18:06)

One of them. I just remember from not too long ago, I was going to do a book event for one of my books. And when you go to a book event held in some hotel, maybe there's usually someone there to meet you, and they won't recognize you, but they have to pretend that they have. And you go, hello, am I here? And they go, oh, Danny. And then their job is to just walk you through and take you to the backstage room or whatever. They just need to make sure you get that. So this guy picks me up, and I'm like, hello, yeah, I'm Danny. And he walks me through, and then I stand there and I have a bottle of water or whatever with. With some other people, and then I go and do my event. And then back to the room, and you mingle a bit, and then you have another bottle of water, and then I'm ready to go, right? So I get to the door, and there's the man. And the man opens the door for me, and I'm like, thank you very much. And he steps out, and I think, right I've got to stick with him. He's going to get me through back to where I need to be. And I notice immediately he's walking at quite a clip, quite a pace. You know, he's a busy man. There's a lot of authors to look after. He just needs to get me where he needs to get me. And so I'm sticking close to this guy, and there's a big crowd of people, and he's trying to avoid them. And, you know, that's natural. He's sort of taking on, like, a security role. And we're in a very dangerous place. You know, we're in a literary festival in Shakespeare's hometown. So it doesn't get more dangerous than that. So I'm sticking close to him, and I'm walking. I'm matching him kind of pace for pace, and he doesn't really seem to want to talk, but that's fine. He's a professional. And suddenly we peel off, and we go down through some double doors, and we're kind of skipping down some stairs together. And he really is walking very quickly. And I'm thinking, okay, well, the exit must be kind of up, up ahead. And we walk down a very long corridor, and I'm right next to him, and then he suddenly peels off, because he wasn't walking me out. He was just. He was just going somewhere. And I had assumed that this was my man that I have to stick close to. And to be clear, I'm not just following him down a series of corridors and through double doors. I'm silently walking right next to him the whole time. And he must be thinking. I don't know what he's thinking, but he's just thinking, well, Danny Wallace must be going to exactly the same place I am, but I don't know how to address this. And then suddenly, he just walks into a door, closes the door, and I'm just stuck in the basement of a hotel in Stratford upon Avon, thinking, I don't know what just happened there. So I have to sort of just walk back silently, trying to retrace my steps and just go, literally follow the signs that say exit. Because that was all that was expected of me.

Jameela Jamil (20:40)

I think he thought, danny Wallace is trying to fuck me. Like you're breathing on the back of his neck pretty much at this point.

Danny Wallace (20:45)

No, I'm not on the back of his neck.

Jameela Jamil (20:47)

You are chasing him, really.

Danny Wallace (20:48)

No, I'm not. I'm walking next to him because I'm just thinking. I'm not just trailing after Him. I'm walking with him the whole way, side by side, which is worse.

Jameela Jamil (20:58)

Oh man, what a fucking nightmare.

Danny Wallace (21:01)

He must have just gone into that room, whatever, and just gone like, what's wrong with Danny Wallace? The guys are not. Is he still outside? And I just need to go.

Jameela Jamil (21:10)

Countless people have been deliberately chased by me, which you've just resurfaced as a memory. I don't know if either of you ever did this, but I think I must have been a dog in my last life. But as soon as I see someone run past me, I have an urge to chase them. It's like an overwhelming physical compulsion to chase them. And so I used to do this all the time as a child. Anyone would start running past me, I would run for my life after them. And then they would look behind them and see I'm running. Not in any kind of jogging clothes, in like a school uniform and I'm fixed on them. And they would run for their lives, away from me. Like I turned their exercise into a full on chase.

Danny Wallace (21:47)

Yeah, it's like a Japanese horror.

Jameela Jamil (21:50)

All the time. Yeah, all the time.

Sophie Hagen (21:52)

That is the least relatable thing I've ever heard in my life.

Danny Wallace (21:55)

I just, I just like when I see someone who's obviously a jogger and obviously, you know, a runner in all their running, you know, costume, whatever you call it, I'm not a runner. And they, they run past costume is great. They wear their costume, their uniform and I'll just, I'll just shout, no. Running like that, just to sort of slightly embarrass my, embarrass my children or maybe you won't get there any faster, which they will, but I do that. I quite like talking to strangers and I like sort of taking risks and, and I, I sort of lean into it now and I do it to show my kids that it, you know, it's allowed. But I remember we were, we were in Italy recently and we were in Rome and it was all the kind of incredibly romantic kind of architecture and the famous fountain down there and the guys with the roses, they really take advantage of that because they hope that you'll be swayed by this sense of romanticism into purchasing a rose that your wife doesn't want. We've got enough stuff to carry and now we're carrying a rose. It's a bit embarrassing and all that kind of stuff and. But they see you and they home in on you and they kind of come up and they hold the rose in such a way that your wife sees it. So you'll look either unromantic or cheap if you don't buy the rose. And he holds it up to me and I just very loudly go, never, Never in a million years. And then he gets really embarrassed and starts backing off. But my kids are really enjoying it and so we just come up with just different ways of just embarrassing ourselves and other people in these situations.

Jameela Jamil (23:35)

Oh, fantastic. Absolutely fantastic.

Danny Wallace (23:38)

Never in a million years.

Jameela Jamil (23:39)

Never in a million years. It's so intense. I adore you. These are fantastic insights into the way you both see humiliations, and we're going to get into your bigger ones right after the break. On this podcast, we talk about terrible things that happen to us that we find funny later. However, there are some things in life that happen that are harder to smile about or laugh about later. And in those times I personally think it's a really good idea to get therapy. However, therapy is a nightmare to find in this dumpster fire world these days, partially because how do you find a practitioner who matches your insurance provider? How do you find someone who's actually compatible with you, who you don't find annoying, Someone you want to tell your secrets to every single week? How are they going to meet your specific needs? How can you afford therapy? It's just too much and it's too hard and it's too daunting and it's why so many people don't go even when they need to. That's why I like Ruler. Ruler make mental health care actually accessible. They've partnered with over a hundred insurance companies to make sure they can find someone who takes your specific insurance so that your co pay is normally around 15 per session. Some people pay 0 depending on which insurance they have, and they match you up with someone who's actually right for you, so who matches your specific needs. If you don't like who you've been matched up with, they can move you to someone else. It's online, it's flexible, it's so easy to use, and it's 360 care. They're not just looking at your mental health care, they're also helping with medication management and they want to be there through the whole journey and they make that manageable and possible. I genuinely think it's worth a shot. Thousands of people are already using Ruler to get affordable, high quality therapy that's actually covered by insurance. You can visit ruler.com wrongturns to get started and after you sign up, you're going to be asked how you heard about them. Please drop my name, support our show and Let them know that we sent you. That's r u l a.com wrongturns because you deserve mental health care that works with you, not against your budget. For goodness sake.

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Jameela Jamil (27:08)

And we are back. Okay, Sophie, I'm ready. What's your big chosen humiliation?

Sophie Hagen (27:14)

Okay, so this is about when I met Michael Sheen, but I didn't know there was Michael Sheen. So I'm gonna spoil it right off the beginning because you need to know how this looked from the outside. But what you need to know that is from the inside. I had the best intentions. It was at a small comedy festival in Wales called the McCarthy Comedy Festival. And I went into. So it's like a tiny little village. So there are not that many restaurants. So when you go into a restaurant that's just like a. Like everyone who's performing at the festival are in this one Indian restaurant. So I go in and I see all of my friends and all of these like famous comedians like Aisling B. Mark Watson. I think Nish was there. Nish Kuma, James Acaster at Gamble. Like those people, right? Cool, famous guys. So I go to Join them. And I see that at the end of the table sits this ever so slightly older gentleman, and no one is really speaking to him. So I put it all together in my head and I go, okay, right, this must be, like, a very new comedian who is at this festival to try and make it. And all these pricks are just ignoring him because they're too good for him. How sad for this guy. And I remember what it's like, you know, so I'm gonna be there for this guy. So I introduce myself and I sit next to him, and I start asking him, like, oh, are you enjoying the festival? And do you. Yeah, And I. And I kept. I was being very supportive and like, yeah, it is a very. It's a very cool festival to be a part of, you know, and it's really good when you're new because it's such a great place because when people have seen, you know, comedians, they know they will go and see any other show, and then the. You know, you really get to find your audience. And I asked him, like, what he was working on, and he was like, oh, he's. Because he's so humble and nice. He was just like, oh, I'm working on a play. I was like, oh, my God, that's so good. I was like, yeah, plays are really exciting, and this is such a good place to do stuff like that, you know, people might not be good for you. Like, that sounds so interesting, actually. And, you know, then you can always end up taking it, you know, bigger and bigger places, and that'll be really exciting. And meanwhile, all the other comedians are kicking me under the table. And I just think, you snobs. Yeah, you dirty snobs. How dare you?

Jameela Jamil (29:27)

Yeah, why are you talking to the help?

Sophie Hagen (29:31)

I was like, listen, we all need to help people. And I'm just going on and on about how exciting it is to be at this festival. And you know how actually, like, when you meet comedians that, you know, they are very nice and, you know, everyone really. Everyone wants to help.

Jameela Jamil (29:46)

Community.

Sophie Hagen (29:47)

It's a community. And then eventually he. And he's so nice throughout this whole thing. Like, at no point does he say, what the fuck are you doing? Don't you know why?

Danny Wallace (29:56)

I mean, you're also. The way you're talking to him, you are coming across as something of a simpleton.

Jameela Jamil (30:02)

Yeah.

Danny Wallace (30:03)

Like, it's really nice, the comedy festival. You can meet lots of different comedians.

Sophie Hagen (30:07)

It's so lucky, isn't it, when you get to do it even though you're not good enough.

Jameela Jamil (30:11)

Yet it's sort of a bit how people describe daycare for my pet. Like, pet doggy daycare. Like, this is how you're describing the world of comedy.

Sophie Hagen (30:21)

I am being the nicest person ever. And then he leaves and shakes people's hands and.

Danny Wallace (30:27)

Oh, no.

Sophie Hagen (30:28)

Almost the worst thing is when they then tell me who it is, and I go, oh, I don't. I know that name, but where do I know him from? And then all of the Academy Awards. Yeah. People are mentioning films and I'm just like, no, no, that doesn't ring it. And then I look at his IMDb and I'm like, twilight. And it's horror. And he was. The play he was working on was something for, like, the National Theater of, like, whatever, the Globe or something ridiculous. And he was being so nice about it.

Jameela Jamil (30:59)

Have you ever seen him since?

Sophie Hagen (31:01)

No, I have not and I will not.

Jameela Jamil (31:04)

Oh, my God, what a fucking.

Sophie Hagen (31:06)

Ever seeing that man again.

Jameela Jamil (31:07)

I mean, it's hard, though, isn't it? Because also because of Instagram and because of television, it's really hard to know whether you know someone in real life or where you know them from. At a cursory glance, I'm constantly assessing, like, do I know you for real life? Have I just seen you on the Internet? Have we had sex? Highly unlikely. You don't look disappointed.

Sophie Hagen (31:27)

Yeah. But I need you to understand how bad this is, because I just moved back to Denmark from the UK and I. I went to an English open mic and there was this, like, I was introducing myself to people, and then one of them, like, shook my hand, and I said, nice to meet you. And he said, good to see you again at the same time. And I was like, oh. I was like, oh, wait, sorry. And I was like. Immediately I go, okay, no, sorry. That's what I meant. Sorry. I've just been saying nice to meet you to so many people. Of course. And I had no idea who this was. And then I heard his accent, so I said, oh, are you. Are you. You Canadian? And he said, yeah. And I said, oh, my God. Like, when I lived in London, I knew so many Canadians. And he went, yeah. And I said, oh, have you been in London? And he said, yeah, I live in London. And he said it like that. And I was like, oh, that's so cool. Where do you live? And he went, stratham. And I said, yeah, yeah. Oh, I lived in Stratham. That's so cool. And he went, yeah, you lived with me for, like, four months at some point, like 10 years ago, had.

Danny Wallace (32:36)

And I was like, wow.

Sophie Hagen (32:37)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I remember. Oh, sorry. You look so different. He went, no, I don't. Hasn't changed a bit. Hasn't changed one bit. And I went home and I searched for his name in, like, my messages to see if, you know, when have I last communicated with him. And his name popped up in a conversation with my former housemate where she's. She mentioned his name, and then I said, who's that? She went, you've lived with him. This is the second time I forget this man.

Jameela Jamil (33:02)

I mean, I'm sorry, at this point, that's on him.

Danny Wallace (33:04)

Yeah.

Jameela Jamil (33:05)

That he's got a memorability issue.

Danny Wallace (33:07)

He's got to get a thing.

Jameela Jamil (33:09)

He needs to get a thing.

Sophie Hagen (33:10)

He needs a mustache or something.

Jameela Jamil (33:11)

Yeah. I was just about to say maybe.

Danny Wallace (33:13)

This is very much generic, man.

Jameela Jamil (33:16)

I think at this point, I don't think. I think the reason he was so offended because this chronically happens to him.

Danny Wallace (33:22)

Oh, yeah.

Jameela Jamil (33:22)

I really. I think that's a you problem at that point. All his housemates a him problem. Yeah. Not to just fiercely defend you because I love you, but I refuse to. I refused. But also, I don't think we should be expected to remember anything that happened pre Covid. I think, as a rule, I think everything was wiped. In fact, my friend's got a theory that we all died during COVID and this is hell, which is really the only working theory that has the evidence resonated.

Danny Wallace (33:49)

The evidence is stacking up. I think. Yeah, you're right. But I think that, Sophie, five of the most terrifying words in the English language are, nice to see you again. Because if they say it at the start and you're like, who the hell's this? You've got to somehow navigate a conversation implying some familiarity with that person. And worse, if they say it at the end of an interaction, you're going, did. Did I get away with that? Because apparently I've already met that fella. And it's. It's such a head messer upper.

Sophie Hagen (34:21)

But also, you both must have this thing where people will know you, but you won't know them. So that someone will come up to you and talk to you and be like, hi. And then they'll just tell you about themselves and you have to figure out, do we know each other?

Danny Wallace (34:34)

Yeah.

Sophie Hagen (34:35)

Or do you just talk to me as if you know me because, you know, you've listened to my podcast or read my books or whatever.

Danny Wallace (34:40)

Yeah.

Sophie Hagen (34:40)

And then you have to go, how am I going to be stage me? And Just be nice and polite. Or am I also going to go, oh, my God, yeah, I've had the worst year? Because that would be inappropriate somehow if they're like a fan of yours.

Danny Wallace (34:52)

Listen, I. I treat everyone in. In the same way. That's what I've always sort of done, but it has backfired with disdain. I just kind of. I sort of just try and tone match. And if it is someone who just. They sort of know me from something, but maybe they think they went to school with me or went to a wedding with me, I'm just like, fine, I'll just play along and we'll just do that. But I was on the phone near a pub once, and I'm having this chat with a friend of mine and I look up and there's a guy looking at me. And so I sort of think, oh, okay, he's clocked me or something. And I'm still talking, I look up, he's still staring at me. And so I kind of nod at him and he nods at me and I go back to talking and then I look up and he does the British hand signal for would you like a beer? A sort of a shaky hand thing, right? And I'm still on the phone and I should go, no, I can't. I've got a phone. I could just point at the phone, I could walk away, I could wave, I could say no, but instead I went, yeah, yeah, and I gave him a thumbs up. And then he went into the pub and my friend on the phone was like, what's going on? And I said, I've just. I think I've just agreed to have a pint with a man and I don't know who it is. And so I finish up and I go into the pub and the man is waiting there and he's got the two pints. And now I have to work out, do I know this man or am I accepting a pint from maybe someone who's read one of my books? And I'm being very sort of cagey and all this kind of stuff. And eventually I have to kind of confront it and I go, God, I'm just trying to think, just trying to think like when. When I last saw you, when, when we last met. Because it's apparent that I guess we have. Because then if he goes, oh, no, we've never met. I just like your books. I could go, oh, that's a relief. I'll tell you why, because I just accept. But instead of saying that, he goes, when we last Met. And I go, yeah, yeah, when was that? And he went, we met yesterday. And I went, no, yeah, yeah, no, I know, I know that. Thinking, when the hell did I meet this man? And I go, I know that. But I'm just thinking like, before that, when was the last time we'd sort of. When did we met before that?

Jameela Jamil (37:02)

Oh, Danny.

Danny Wallace (37:02)

And he went, we met for the first time yesterday. And I just went, yeah, that's right, that's right, that's right. I still was thinking, when the hell did I meet this man? It turned out that I'd been doing like some work or some interviews or something like that, and I'd gone into the BBC, into a studio, and some man had gone, everyone, this is Danny. Danny, this is everyone. And I went, hello, everyone. And then I left. And he was one of the people who was in the room at the fucking way. So how could I be expected? And yeah, I still felt such deep shame. I'd created an awful situation for myself.

Jameela Jamil (37:39)

I'm similar to you. I go in over familiar. I go in with a very. Yes, and probably because of your fucking book. And I say, nice to meet. Nice to see you to everyone. And then often they'll be like, oh, lovely to meet you. And then I go, okay, thank God. Clear. But when, you know, I was on television every weekend for many, many years in my 20s, and it's sort of not. I'm sort of on. I was on. In between the show. I was doing T4 on Channel 4, right, so you're kind of in between the TV shows, so no one knows you as a specific character in a thing. You just kind of become a part of everyone's weekend on. On, you know, national television. So often people wouldn't be able to place exactly why they recognize me because it's not for a song or a film. And so they. They'd come up to me and be like, hey. You know, which I do to people all the time, where they think, do I just know you from somewhere? They'll be like, hey. And because I want to be overly positive and never seem like I don't remember anyone, I will reg, regardless of who it is, go, hey, how are you? As if I know them. And then I'll be hugely over familiar. And then it will start to clock to them that they know me from the television and have no idea. So now I look like the fucking psycho for being over familiar and acting like I know them for no fucking reason.

Danny Wallace (38:58)

Can she see us when she's on telly?

Jameela Jamil (39:00)

Yeah, that's what they're thinking.

Danny Wallace (39:02)

She knew. Exactly. Can she see us? She was so happy we were there. We're all coming across as. Yeah, simpletons, aren't we? Yeah, that's the thing.

Jameela Jamil (39:12)

Total twats. But, Sophie, at least your heart was in the right place and I appreciate that. And I'm. I'm sure that Michael Sheen walked away from that affectionately and humbled jerk. And that's why he's now campaigning for the nhs. Like, he's sort of, like, moving away from acting because he. He thinks he's not made a significant impact.

Sophie Hagen (39:30)

He wants to support psychiatry.

Jameela Jamil (39:31)

He was like, yeah, he's shifting careers delicately.

Danny Wallace (39:34)

He was like, I really enjoyed that festival. I think he was a sort of care in the community thing.

Sophie Hagen (39:39)

Yeah.

Jameela Jamil (39:41)

Danny, what is your big wrong turn?

Danny Wallace (39:44)

Well, I suppose it is wrong turn in many senses. And you have already mentioned this is sort of where dignity goes to die. I suppose it's a bit like that. And we've all mentioned dogs as well. And I have a dog and a cat and basically children. Basically. And my dog, I call Hassle because he's always. She's always hassling me, always kind of going, so, what's going on? What's going on now? Does this involve me? What's happening? What can we do now? And my cats, I call chores because she's always got something for me to do. Always kind of like, no, require food now. Yes, open the door for me. And one morning I could just. For background, I could just hear this noise downstairs. And I came downstairs at sort of four in the morning, and the dog, well, had committed many atrocities. The dog wasn't feeling very well. Since we've had this dog, it's been like a clown car, you know, like a. Just a car where the doors fall off. Everything's gone wrong with the dog. The dog. Anything that could go wrong with the dog has kind of gone wrong to.

Jameela Jamil (40:46)

The point where it sounds like, sorry, James, my boyfriend, talking about me. This is how he describes me to other people.

Danny Wallace (40:52)

Well, at one point I took the dog to the vet and the vet was like, okay, now your dog can't blink. And I was like, yeah. And she was like, listen, I've got to tell you, there's a very real chance. And I thought she was gonna say that we may have to, you know, cease trading with this dog. But Instead she went, Mr. Wallace, there's a very real chance that your dog will have to wear glasses. At which point I was like, no, I can't. I can't. Have a dog that wears glasses. We can't both wear glasses. I'd have to get laser correction. I can't walk around with a dog who has glasses just like me.

Jameela Jamil (41:27)

That can't be real.

Danny Wallace (41:28)

So they, I've looked at, you know, they're called doggles and it makes them look like they're going parachuting or something. But it was because if she ran through long grass, she'd get bits of grass in her eyes because she couldn't blink and she couldn't open her mouth, she couldn't bark, she couldn't do anything anyway. So there's always something going on with hassle. And I love her really. But I get up at sort of four in the morning and oh my God, you know, it was. I call them fresh challenges.

Jameela Jamil (41:56)

There's just shit everywhere.

Danny Wallace (41:58)

Yeah, fresh challenges. There were fresh challenges everywhere and. And I'm like, this is awful. It's early in the morning. I can't make too much noise. I do what I can, right? So I make a good job of it, I think. And I think I'll do the rest in the morning. And when I get up in the morning, there's fresh challenges everywhere. And again, I do quite a good job of dealing with it. The problem is I hadn't gone downstairs and I hadn't seen a whole new and vibrant artistic outburst of expression from this dog all over the carpet where in 12 hours time or so our friends are going to be coming to stay. So I consider immediately either birding the house down or selling up, because that will be easier than cleaning up what is supposed to be here. What is here. But I realize, excuse me, I get emotional when I talk about this. I realize, okay, I have to, I have to fix this. I have to fix this somehow. And I remember at the supermarket they have this little display where you can go and you can rent a carpet cleaning machine and you've never ever seen anyone do it. But I just think I'm going to go and do it. And I turn up and even the supermarkets, like, no one ever does this, but I'm like, well, I'm gonna do it. So I buy all this like detergent and extra strong stuff and I have to teach myself how to use this massive machine. And I take it downstairs and I start and it's like I'm just joining in with the artistic expression. This isn't kind of going further spreading. Oh God, it's terrible. However, it starts to work and I become a professional carpet cleaner for an afternoon and I nail It, I get it all done and I'm like saying to my wife, I'm gonna have to tell the people who are coming to stay here what's happened here next to their room.

Jameela Jamil (43:42)

Otherwise they're gonna think that's how your house just smells.

Danny Wallace (43:45)

Well, thankfully it smelled wonderful. It smelled better than ever.

Jameela Jamil (43:47)

Well, then why tell?

Danny Wallace (43:49)

Well, I think I could tell. I mean, you know, I want them to know about my day and how I'm so stressed. And she's like, you must never tell them. They must never find out about this. So I didn't. They came, they had a nice time, everything was fine. So this is, this is just by way of an introduction. My kids, it gets to. So it's like two days later we're saying goodbye to summer, right? It's always a sad times, the grief of the end of August. Oh my God, we've got to say goodbye to the sunshine now. It's going to be gray and it's going to be dark and it's going to be like for six months. And my kids want to do something, some last thing for summer. They want to go camping. And I'm not a camper. I'm not good at camping. I don't enjoy camping. There's nothing about camping that appeals to me.

Jameela Jamil (44:32)

But hard same.

Danny Wallace (44:33)

Yeah, but I go, all right, we'll go camping. And so I get all the kind of the stuff together. And I should have known it was kind of cursed from the start because our friends have just left. We've only got a little time to pack. I'm packing, I'm cleaning the house, I'm making everything nice. And just as I start to leave, I think I'll take this can of Guinness to enjoy by a fire tonight. That'll be nice. And I pick up the can of Guinness and it just glances very, very gently the side of a door. But enough it seems to pierce the can which is now like, it's like a fine mist of Guinness coming out like, like, like, like I'm spraying it. Like it's like it's a can that I'm spraying around the house, around myself, around everything I've just cleaned. So now I stink of Guinness. So I have to change and then I go and I do the last job, which is just to get the bin bag out. And I get the bin bag out, but someone's put a watermelon in there which has ruptured the bag. And it's now it's got a. It's got a hole at the bottom of the bag and it's spurting out bright red liquid as if I'm piping a cake, you know. But there's nothing I can do, so I have to just get out of the house as quickly as possible. So I'm running through the house and I'm leaving a trail of bright red liquid and it's swaying from left to right. I'm covering all the stuff that we've left by the door to pack. I managed to get rid of it. I have to change tops again. So we get into the car and off we go. And now all the disasters are done with. All we have to do is pitch the tent and just sort of enjoy nature. And there's other people.

Jameela Jamil (46:00)

Always a safe thought.

Danny Wallace (46:02)

Always a safe thought. And you tend to quite close to other families, so you want to make a good kind of impression. And I turn up and obviously there's a faint whiff of Guinness and a faint whiff of watermelon. But we get everything set up just so. Have a wonderful evening. We make a barbecue, we play Uno in the tent, and then we decide to go to sleep. And the night came. Now, do you remember the dog I told you about that wasn't very well?

Jameela Jamil (46:28)

Sure.

Danny Wallace (46:29)

Well, that dog was sleeping in our tent with us.

Jameela Jamil (46:31)

No.

Danny Wallace (46:33)

And guess what starts to happen at about 11:00pm oh, no. And then happens again at maybe midnight and then again at 12:30 and at 1 and all through the night.

Jameela Jamil (46:44)

Yep, been there.

Danny Wallace (46:46)

This dog that we are trapped with in a tent because it's pitch black outside, unfamiliar. You can't just let the dog out and go. The dog will do all manner of again, atrocities on our little pitch, or worse, run to other people and do it in their tents. And we can't scream because we have sleeping children within the tent. So we can't get out the tent. We have to stay in the tent. And every half an hour. Oh, my God, the noise of it. The noise when you are right next to it and you're not able to do anything and you're just zipping and unzipping things and trying to bring out. Find new things that you could mop up with. And detergents and like, well, this is hand soap. I suppose this will sort of clean things up. And to say it was the worst night of my life would. Would be accurate, I think. So Hassel really lived up to her name that night. Somehow the children remained asleep. Somehow they haven't been taken away from us because I'm pretty sure we broke many sort of at least moral laws. That night it was disgusting and I'm not a fan of kind of scatological tales, but it was one that I felt I had to share because maybe by sharing it it will stop being mine and it will become ours.

Jameela Jamil (48:02)

Sharing is caring as well, Danny. It was horrific, foul. That's just endless. Dogs are such an unbelievable nuisance. There is CCTV footage of James and I doing many bad things.

Danny Wallace (48:17)

No.

Jameela Jamil (48:18)

But because of our dog we were allowed to stay in a hotel that does not allow dogs. This is when our dog was a puppy, like five years ago and was still in training. And because we are on television and he's a singer, we got extra privileges and they were fans, they let us stay and the puppy was very cute, but the puppy had eaten a new type of food. They'd been, they'd left, you know, treats for the dog, you know, to be extra accommodating. And it gave the dog the most violent diarrhea on Earth at 3 in the morning. We get woken up at 3 in the morning. The dog is crying from the crate. So James takes him out and he's running him, you know, to the elevator and we do not make it to the elevator. The dog shits all the way down the hallway of this beyond five star hotel, like incredibly lovely place where you cannot do this sort of thing. Incredibly expensive carpet and it's everywhere. And he just comes running in and wakes me up and he's like, it's like chocolate milkshake out there, you've got come. So he was like, grab a towel. So I go in, I'm in my pajamas, I'm just in a T shirt and underpants. He's in a T shirt and underpants. I run out with all the towels and it's just spreading it further, sort of turning it into a schmear. So I, I remember we've got a kettle in our room. I run back in, I put some soap in the kettle and hot water and I, you know, I come out and I try and clean it and we kind of remove the look of it, but the smell is everywhere. And now we have all of these very expensive towels from the hotel covered in dog shit. So my boyfriend makes the decision and again this is all caught on camera, there are cameras everywhere. Makes the decision in his T shirt and pants to grab all of the shit covered towels in his arms, run out through the hotel lobby down Dean street in London and then across to the iconic members club, the Groucher Hotel and just throws them out outside there and then does a Runner. And then we just went back in and hoped that we lit a candle outside and put some of the toilet spray all over it, hoping we'd maybe get away with it by the time everyone woke up. And when we woke up, there were air fresheners and a professional carpet cleaning crew there. They'd clearly watched us do all of that on the CCTV and very politely got rid of everything. And then since then, weirdly, they've just been booked up every time we've tried to.

Danny Wallace (50:46)

Actually, it was. Actually I was part of the carpet cleaning crew.

Sophie Hagen (50:48)

Sure, sure.

Danny Wallace (50:49)

They heard about my work.

Jameela Jamil (50:50)

Great job. No, but we. I then had to go back the following year for a junket where I was promoting a movie and I noticed they had all new carpets on that floor. So we really didn't. There will never be another dog allowed to stay there again.

Sophie Hagen (51:05)

Because it wouldn't have been like the greatest mystery. Like, I wonder which one of the people was it the one with the dog. To have a dog.

Jameela Jamil (51:13)

Someone could have shat all over the floor. It's not. It's not impossible, but at least you.

Sophie Hagen (51:17)

Try to clean it. When. When my Hank did that, we stayed in a. Probably a less classy hotel. He suddenly woke up and desperately needed to. To do a poo. So. But we lived on the. Yeah, same, like fifth or sixth floor. And then when I was waiting for the elevator, I was like, this isn't going to. Like, he can't hold it in. So I was like, we're going to make a run for it down the stairs. And right at the top of the stairs he lets go. And he's normally a very clean dog. He never goes inside. So this. And he. It was very clearly he was sick and it was. So. I'm so sorry to listeners. So liquid that it ran like down, you know, like in the middle of the stair or the staircase that go like round. It just went down. So it spread all over like six floors of cement stairs.

Danny Wallace (52:04)

I think. By the way, Jamila, when you look at the stats for this podcast, this will be the moment. There's a huge drop off in listening.

Jameela Jamil (52:10)

Yes, 100%.

Danny Wallace (52:11)

It was tailing. It was tailing. And then they just went. I think that's enough for me.

Sophie Hagen (52:15)

Yeah, this is enough. And this gets worse. So thank you for leaving. It was red, so I thought, he's bleeding internally. Everything. He's gonna die. Because that's the thought I have five times a day. Like, something is happening. He's gonna die. So I had to, like, get him outside and then I was like, I just need to, like, immediately call a vet because I need to get him to a hospital. And it wasn't until we were at the vet and they were like, it's diarrhea. He's fine. I realized, oh, I've just left the hotel with this on their stairs, and now it's like, breakfast time. So I had to walk back in and be like, I don't know if you've noticed, but there was a thing on your stairs, and it's my fault, and I'm so sorry. And they were just like, yes, we've noticed. We've taken care of it. Thank you. And I was like, I'm so sorry.

Jameela Jamil (53:01)

Never again. Never again. These dogs, they're fucking cute, but they're a fucking hassle, actually. Well, quick, quick question. How long does it take you to name a dog if you're waiting to assess its personality and bad habits before you name your pet?

Danny Wallace (53:15)

That's a good question. How long did it take you to name Hank?

Sophie Hagen (53:18)

Oh, that was like. I just looked at him and I thought, that's Hank.

Danny Wallace (53:21)

Yeah.

Sophie Hagen (53:22)

But I also didn't name him after what he does the most. So yours is the Hassle.

Danny Wallace (53:27)

Hassle? Yeah. Her name isn't really Hassle. I just call her Hassle and Chores based on the extra work that they enjoy giving me.

Jameela Jamil (53:34)

Oh, perfect. Perfect, perfect. So they're nicknames that have emerged over the years?

Danny Wallace (53:38)

Yes.

Jameela Jamil (53:39)

Fabulous. Well, we will be. If anyone is still listening, we'll be right back after a quick break.

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Jameela Jamil (54:14)

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Danny Wallace (54:17)

Register in the McDonald's app so you're.

Jameela Jamil (54:19)

Ready to get your bag. Two ways to peel for a chance.

Danny Wallace (54:23)

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Jameela Jamil (54:47)

And we're back. Thank you both for being so funny and so giving with these stories. You're both such great storytellers. It's been very, very vivid during this podcast and very Bo, before you go, we always have our audience members write in their own wrong turn stories. And Evie wrote this in the other day. She said, not me, but a friend.

Danny Wallace (55:06)

Sure.

Jameela Jamil (55:07)

So a friend of hers had an interview for a medical school in London and she'd really neglected her interview prep for it as she'd been super busy with work. So prior to the interview, I gave her a list for books that I'd read as part of my own interview prep and she read the blurbs of them and in her interview she mentions one of the titles in an answer. And the interviewer picks up on this and he then proceeds to ask her more about this book, to which she responds with completely fabricated information about aspects of the book and what she thought and later found out that the interviewer was also the author.

Danny Wallace (55:39)

Uh oh.

Jameela Jamil (55:39)

Which I thought would be good considering it reminded me of your Michael Sheen moment.

Sophie Hagen (55:45)

Yeah, it's a perfect full circle, isn't it?

Jameela Jamil (55:48)

Just the mortification, the deep mortification of that. You've both been hilarious. Yvie, thank you so much for that story. Before you go, will you tell everyone where they can find you and anything you want anyone to read or listen to, to or look at?

Sophie Hagen (56:01)

Sophie, I would like for people to read my books, Happy, Fat and Will I Ever have Sex Again. And I would also like for them to go on YouTube and look up my show Generation Boy Band, which is also about something most people would feel ashamed about.

Jameela Jamil (56:15)

Perfect.

Danny Wallace (56:16)

It's her obsession with a certain boy band.

Sophie Hagen (56:18)

Yes.

Danny Wallace (56:19)

Which I love about you. There must be a billion stories in there about your, your. It's more than an obsession really, isn't it?

Sophie Hagen (56:26)

It, yes, it is.

Danny Wallace (56:27)

Yes, it is.

Sophie Hagen (56:28)

But there is no shame about any of it because it was incredibly cool and I was the best one at it. And there was no shame in following Shane from West side into a toilet.

Danny Wallace (56:35)

Exactly.

Jameela Jamil (56:36)

That's why you are a legend and a national treasure.

Sophie Hagen (56:39)

Exactly.

Jameela Jamil (56:40)

Danny.

Danny Wallace (56:42)

I write different books. The latest one is called Somebody Told Me, which is sort of about like, I, I, I started to wonder whether my family was being contacted by Chinese spies and that made me sound insane. And yet recent news says it's now become a thing. You know, we're all being spied on all the time, so maybe I'm not a lunatic. Or the podcast, the important broadcast where I talk very importantly about all my thoughts and wisdom.

Jameela Jamil (57:12)

Excellent. The book Somebody Told Me is fantastic. And I think it weirdly becomes more relevant every year since you wrote it. It largely investigates conspiracy theories and why people think the way they do or, you know, where they're getting this information. And so highly recommend that Will I ever have sex Again? It's an extraordinary book. It's so funny. And I can't imagine how much pressure it is to announce how many years it's been since you last had sex, Sophie, and now have the world waiting. Almost like when do you remember how foul it was when we were like waiting for Britney spears to turn 18 or Charlotte Church, you know, we had like Countdown clubs too. But everyone is now, I imagine, waiting for the story of when that breaks.

Sophie Hagen (57:55)

It's not helping making it happen.

Jameela Jamil (57:57)

No, not amazing on the old Tinder profile. You're both a dream. I love you both very much. Thank you so much for being here. This was so much fun.

Danny Wallace (58:06)

Loved it. Thank you.

Sophie Hagen (58:07)

Thank you.

Hannah Burner (58:08)

Bye.

Jameela Jamil (58:11)

Wrong Turns was created and produced by me, Jameela Jamil and Stuart Bailey. And thank you to consulting producer Colin Anderson. You can email us a voice memo of your own Wrong Turns. All you have to do is email personal disaster storiesmail.com you can find full length videos of our episodes on YouTube. And don't forget to subscribe, like review wherever you get your podcasts and tell your friends about us. And if you are also enjoying me as a person, I have a substack. It's called a low desire to please. That's enough of me. I'm gonna fuck off now.

Sophie Hagen (58:45)

Bye.

Danny Wallace (58:56)

ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Public schools today are in danger. Their elimination is crucial to the far right's plan to shatter democracy. They want to sow the seeds of distrust in public education using anti trans hate.

Sophie Hagen (59:17)

We went from teachers are heroes to.

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Teachers are indoctrinating our kids.

Danny Wallace (59:23)

Hi, I'm Amara Jones, host of the Anti Trans Hate Machine. For decades, the far right has wanted to dismantle public schools. And now they finally found the way.

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A basic problem of democracy is that it is much easier to break things things than it is to build them.

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Listen to season four of the Antitrans Hate Machine. Wherever you listen to podcasts.

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