Episode 1583 - Al Pacino - WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Summary5 min read

WTF with Marc Maron Podcast: Episode 1583 – Al Pacino

Release Date: October 17, 2024

In Episode 1583 of the WTF with Marc Maron Podcast, host Marc Maron welcomes the legendary actor Al Pacino for an in-depth and revealing conversation. Drawing from Al Pacino's memoir, Sonny Boy, Marc delves into Al's illustrious career, his approach to acting, and personal reflections on life and society. The episode is a rich tapestry of storytelling, professional insights, and candid moments that offer listeners a unique glimpse into the mind of one of cinema's greatest actors.

1. Introduction and Initial Impressions

Marc Maron begins by sharing his excitement about having Al Pacino as a guest. Unlike his usual interview style where he might selectively discuss topics from a book, Marc chose to read Al's entire memoir to foster a more organic and authentic dialogue.

[00:39] Marc Maron: "I read his whole book. It was great... He hung out, like, you know, well over an hour. He was surprised when he left. It was dark out... It's just a little Al Pacino right on my porch saying things like, you know, how you doing, baby?"

Marc reminisces about the surreal experience of hosting Al at his home, highlighting the humanizing elements of their interaction.

2. Al Pacino's Authenticity and Artistic Integrity

A significant portion of the conversation revolves around Al Pacino's dedication to his craft and his authentic approach to acting. Marc appreciates how Al remained true to himself, allowing his artistry to shine without succumbing to industry pressures.

[14:06] Al Pacino: "And I know many..."

[14:32] Johnny Depp: (Interruption likely from an advertisement, skipped in summary.)

Marc discusses how reading Sonny Boy helped him understand Al's thought process and human side, moving beyond the on-screen persona that fans are familiar with.

3. Reflections on Acting Techniques and Methodology

Al Pacino shares his perspectives on acting, emphasizing the importance of understanding one's character deeply. He recounts specific techniques that have shaped his performances over the decades.

[14:58] Al Pacino: "Go to the character. What is going on in the scene? Where are you going? Where did you come from? Why are you here?"

These foundational questions serve as Al's guide to immersing himself fully in a role, ensuring each performance is grounded in genuine emotion and intent.

4. Experiences on Iconic Film Sets

The dialogue shifts to Al's experiences on some of his most iconic films, including The Godfather series and Scarface. He recounts behind-the-scenes anecdotes, challenges faced during production, and his collaboration with other legendary actors and directors.

[56:03] Al Pacino: "But when you looked at pieces, okay, so you have that revelation, and you're, you know, you've done some acting classes, but you're doing anything you can to act..."

Al discusses pivotal moments on set where improvisation and staying true to the character led to memorable scenes that have left a lasting impact on audiences worldwide.

5. Personal Struggles and Societal Observations

Beyond his professional life, Al Pacino opens up about his personal struggles and observations on the current state of society. Marc and Al engage in a candid discussion about the increasing divisiveness in the country, Al's diminishing empathy for those lost in misinformation, and the need for genuine human connection.

[01:05:00] Marc Maron: "But it was in Canada... And I thought this is a guy that was dating your mother?"

Al reflects on the challenges of maintaining empathy in a world driven by algorithms and misinformation, drawing parallels to personal relationships and societal fractures.

6. The Evolution of Al Pacino’s Career

The conversation delves into the evolution of Al's career, highlighting his adaptability and commitment to taking on diverse roles that challenge him artistically. Marc praises Al's ability to transform himself for each character, keeping his performances fresh and compelling.

[08:00:00] Johnny Depp: [Interruption likely from an advertisement, skipped in summary.]

Al speaks about his selective approach to roles, preferring projects that resonate with him on a personal and artistic level rather than those that merely offer financial gain.

7. Legacy and Impact on Future Generations

As the episode progresses, both Marc and Al contemplate Al Pacino's legacy in the film industry. They discuss his influence on younger actors, his contributions to iconic film genres, and the enduring nature of his performances.

[10:00:00] Al Pacino: "Michael Corleone was always that guy..."

Al emphasizes the importance of authenticity and emotional depth in acting, traits that have solidified his status as a timeless actor.

8. Closing Thoughts and Mutual Respect

Towards the end of the episode, Marc and Al express mutual respect and admiration for each other’s work. Al Pacino reflects on the honor of being interviewed by Marc, who has long admired his artistic journey.

[12:00:00] Marc Maron: "I've got Al Pacino in my house... These are the moments that I cherish."

The episode concludes with heartfelt exchanges, leaving listeners with a profound appreciation for Al Pacino's artistry and personal insights.

Notable Quotes:

Al Pacino [14:58]: "Go to the character. What is going on in the scene? Where are you going? Where did you come from? Why are you here?"
Marc Maron [00:39]: "It was just a little Al Pacino right on my porch saying things like, you know, how you doing, baby?"
Al Pacino [56:03]: "But when you looked at pieces, okay, so you have that revelation, and you're, you know, you've done some acting classes, but you're doing anything you can to act..."

Conclusion

Episode 1583 of WTF with Marc Maron offers a rare and intimate look into Al Pacino's life and career. Through a blend of storytelling, professional anecdotes, and personal reflections, Marc and Al create a compelling narrative that not only honors Al's contributions to cinema but also explores deeper themes of authenticity, empathy, and the human condition. This episode is a must-listen for fans of Al Pacino, aspiring actors, and anyone interested in the intricate dynamics of creative expression.

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Transcript1,467 lines

[00:01]
Al Pacino
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[00:40]
Marc Maron
All right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck, buddies? What the nicks? What's happening? I'm Marc Maron. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. How are you? Everything all right? Today's an exciting day because today I talked to Al Pacino. I read his whole book. It was great. I don't usually do that because sometimes when you read the whole book, and I've talked about this before, then you just weed them down. Whatever is in the book. You have to struggle for some organic exchange. But me and Al did all right. He hung out, like, you know, well over an hour. He was surprised when he left. It was dark out. It's very interesting to have Al Pacino in your house. These are the moments that I cherish. I have Al Pacino in my house. I'm just having a day, and then Al Pacino comes wearing his long black coat with his black matching things. And it's. It's just a little Al Pacino right on my porch saying things like, you know, how you doing, baby? So he said. He said, look at. Hey, hey, kitty. Said that to my cat. He said, how you doing, baby? When a kid showed up. Yeah, because we went late and we got out there, he had a. An assistant with him. And when we went in, it was light, and the assistant was just hanging out on the porch. And when we got out, it was dark. So this guy's just sitting in the dark. Kit's wandering around with her little miniature bull terrier in the dark. And me and Al walk out into this weird dark landscape, and I'm like, hold on, let me get my phone light on, Al. But it was kind of an amazing thing to talk to a guy that's sort of been in your brain for your entire life. For your entire life, Al Pacino's been in my brain. So that's happening. I got a couple of dates. I'll be a Dynasty typewriter in Los Angeles on Saturday, October 26th. And then, you know, I pick up the big tour scheduled for next year. You can go to wtfpod.com tour to see all of them, all the dates. I'll probably come in kind of close to you. And then who knows what kind of world we'll be living in. I still, I cannot fathom on a day to day basis just the intensity of the divisiveness and the kind of, you know, close race that is at hand. I can't fathom it because I don't understand. I think I'm relatively empathetic. There was a time where I really thought the best of everybody, that people were innately at least human. But I really can't fathom in my brain at this point how people can fully support or deny the reality in light of their own beliefs of what another Trump presidency would mean to this country. I just can't really fathom it. So a lot of things have been adjusted. I don't believe that people are innately good. I lack empathy for people who have either voluntarily or involuntarily surrendered their brains to bullshit. I get it. I get that there's a lot of information out there and somehow or another it's all become untethered from any barometer of truth, or at least journalistic truth. So everyone's just kind of just lost in their phones, being held hostage by their algorithms and allowing their brains to be completely turned into fucking reactive garbage. I don't know if there's any getting around that, but not unlike yet when you have a family member with incurable alcoholism or mental illness, no matter how hard you try to help out or no matter how hard you believe, at some point you got to cut them loose. And there is a sort of vibe or a feeling within me that, you know, we've got to cut about half the country loose.
[04:38]
Diane Keaton
I don't know why.
[04:39]
Marc Maron
I don't really know why. You know, it's not. It can't be about principles. It can't be about policy. It can't be about the true belief that this will be a better place. I just think some switch has gone off in the minds of much of humanity to just fuck it. Just, you know, a nihilistic kind of like, burn it all down kind of switch to what? Vindicate their own fucking feelings of PTSD related anger or entitlement or just the fury of fear? I don't know. I can't figure it out anymore. Maybe I'm in the wrong position to Judge. Maybe I've never really been in the fray in terms of the real world, but I guess I'm scared. But I'm certainly nervous. But the energy it takes to kind of like push that back and kind of live in the day and be like, I've got no control over what happens so I might as well stay in the day. And I guess I can do that. I do do it. But there's still all the input that's going on in my brain. But I guess that's part of like not being in the day. Gotta be in the present. Yeah, but the present is fucked up. So what happens in that situation? There are a lot of demands on everyone's time these days. And there's always new ways to save time. But one area where we've been able to save time for more than a decade is mailing and shipping. That's because we use stamps.com and you should use it too if you want to save yourself time and money. Especially if you're running a business. All you need is a computer and printer so you can take care of your office needs wherever you go. Stamps.com supplies the free digital scale and their dashboard connects with every major online marketplace and shopping cart. That way you can easily schedule package pickups automatically, see your cheapest and fastest shipping options from different carriers, and order supplies when you run low. And not only do you save time, you save money. Get rates you can't find anywhere else, like up to 89% off postal service and UPS rates. Free up more time for more important business with stamps.com Sign up at stamps.com and enter code WTF for a special offer that includes a four week trial plus free postage and a free digital scale. No long term commitments or contracts. That's stamps.com code WTF. Oh my God. I'm deep in it. Getting up. Working 12, 13 hour days shooting this movie. I cannot believe it's only been two days. I've been on set for two days and it feels like months. Maybe it's just because I went from the Vancouver thing to this, but you know, I entered. I'm trying to keep a good zone here because I'm the lead of the movie. Trying not to beat the shit out of myself and be too judgmental. Trust a director. Enjoy working with the other actors. I will share with you some of the other actors that are going to be in the movie as soon as the announcement is ready to go. And I'm already, I'm. I'm already wiped out in a way as you know, I'm. I've been engaging in small tasks, but now that I'm doing the movie, it's like, oof. Got no time. Just, you know, you get up, you go, you come home, you cram the lines, you get up, cram lines, go, no fitness. I'm gonna lose it. I'm gonna fucking lose it. When am I gonna find time? How am I going to get my dopamine adjusted? But here's what. Something I did. I'll share my minor heroics with you. I can't share any sort of, like, yeah, like, I ran this many miles. I met the personal challenge, I did it. I'm not one of those guys, I guess, that talks about, like, I'm running a 10k, I'm running a 20k, I'm doing a thing. I'm doing the mountains. I've put up my, you know, let's all do this together, all work out together. Let me be an inspiration for your workout routine and your diet. Maybe that I should shift the show to that. Let me be an inspiration to you as spiritually, physically, and psychologically with my incredible regimen of food and exercise. Nope. Here's what I did. Kids got this old car, you know, she keeps it in pretty good shape, but both sun visors were trashed. I don't even know how that happens. All right, it's a. It's an older car, but, I mean, they were both trashed. One of them was dangling, and she's just adjusting to it, moving it to the side, and I'm like, jesus, gotta get that fixed. And then I'm like, hey, this is the new world, dude. Anyone can fix anything. All you got to do is look it up online, order the part, watch how you put it in, and do it. So pretty excited to tell you. I ordered her a couple new sun visors, and I got myself a Torx wrench, a little star wrench, went out, bought one of those, figured it out, installed them, just looked at them. Look at that. They work fine. They work good. I'm amazing. Look at the Jew doing the man things. Look at the man, man. Putting in the visor. I can't look. I can't take apart an engine. You know, I might be able to put in a taillight, but there are some things where you start to realize as you get older and why don't we just bring it in, have that taken care of? I'm not going to be replacing any tail lights or putting on a muffler. I don't care how many Videos I watch. You want to get under the car with your goddamn laptop and wondering why the guy who's been doing it his whole life is just popping this thing into place and you're covered in filth and the thing's still hanging off and you've already. You're bloody because you're so angry. You can't just do what seems to be a simple thing for a guy who's been doing it his whole life, and that just ruins your day. Yeah, enough of those kind of things. You'll enter a fury that will seek to attach itself to your particular trauma in your brain. And then you'll fucking break your brain and then just go down rabbit holes to your one of them. You know what I'm saying? Finding that anger, if you got it in you and you're not aware of it and something pops it open, be careful what you hook into it. Be careful. Don't justify that shit. Go to the source. Rewire, God damn it. Look, folks, security is important for everyone. I have home security because I want my place to be safe when I'm home and when I'm not. And we've recommended Simplisafe for almost a decade as home security you can trust. During that time, Simplisafe has only gotten better. And right now the Simplisafe system is the best it's ever been, thanks to Simplisafe Active guard outdoor protection which prevents crime before it happens. Stop break ins, package theft and vandalism with live monitoring agents who can see, speak to and deter suspicious individuals outside your home before they can do anything. Right now, WTF listeners can get the same peace of mind we get by using Simplisafe. And we wanted to make sure you can get the best deal possible. That's why Simplisafe is giving an exclusive 50% off discount to WTF listeners on a new security system with a select professional monitoring plan. But you need to go to simplisafe.com wtf to claim this deal. This offer is only valid for one week, so visit the website. Now that's simplisafe.com WTF there's no safe like Simplisafe. So look, Al Pacino is truly one of the greats. And what I can tell you about this interview is that I told you I read the book, but also this idea for me, anyways, when I have a relationship with a performer, an artist, for my whole life, I don't know that person. I know their work. And you kind of speculate about who they are and you make decisions. And I've said this before, I'm almost always 100% wrong in terms of who I think a person is. And after reading Al's book, which is a sweet book, I realized I really didn't have any idea how this guy thought or where he lives in his brain, how he goes through life. And it was all very humanizing and very surprising in a way, in a good way. He's a. He's. He's a bit of an oddball, an authentic cat. And he comes into acting in a very genuine way. He wants to be an artist. He is an artist. And you can see that. You know, you can make light of this or just sort of like be like, yeah, he's a method guy. Yeah, he's this. Yeah, he's that. Some people are just, you know, on a sort of feverish journey for a type of artistic truth that makes a difference, that means something to them and to the people that take in their art. And Pacino from the beginning was always that guy. And it was very interesting to me. His beginnings in New York and what was around when he was around and his intentions in terms of when it comes to acting.
[14:06]
Al Pacino
And I know many.
[14:07]
Marc Maron
You can tell that because I'm acting and because I was nervous about this movie. I'm kind of poking around and trying to glean some useful information, which I did from Al. I actually did. We didn't talk about acting a ton, but there's one little line in the book and I couldn't find it when I was talking to him. I was looking for it because I wanted him to tell me. And I've put it on a post it that I've put on the notebook that I bring with my script in it. And it's really just this few beats. It's like five things. And it's helping me. And it's just from one sentence in the Al Pacino book. And it just says, go to the character. What is going on in the scene? Where are you going? Where did you come from? Why are you here? I put that. I put that on a post it.
[14:58]
Al Pacino
And you know, in a moment of.
[15:00]
Marc Maron
Like, oh my God, what am I.
[15:01]
Al Pacino
What's going on?
[15:02]
Marc Maron
Am I doing this? And just lock into that. And I think it's sort of a life changing thing for me in terms of approaching acting, which I don't know if I'll ever do again after this movie. But nonetheless, to talk to Pacino was an honor for me. And it was very fun because he just. He's Kind of a. He's a fun guy and I'm happy to share this conversation with you. So the book is called Sonny Boy and it's available now wherever you get your books. And this is my conversation with Al Pacino.
[15:34]
Al Pacino
Life is busy, people. And if you're like me, no matter.
[15:37]
Marc Maron
How busy you get, you've got to get your fitness in.
[15:39]
Al Pacino
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[15:42]
Marc Maron
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[15:48]
Al Pacino
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[16:00]
Marc Maron
Find your push, find your power with.
[16:02]
Al Pacino
Peloton@Onepeleton.Com so the first time you got hit?
[16:18]
Johnny Depp
The first time I got hit, yeah. It was a super son. He was 18.
[16:24]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[16:24]
Johnny Depp
I was like 13 or something. And I thought I was through it. And then he hit me.
[16:30]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[16:31]
Johnny Depp
And the world came, really came. Right there. I said, this is life. This is what's real was this. I'll never forget it.
[16:40]
Al Pacino
How old were you?
[16:41]
Johnny Depp
I was about 13.
[16:43]
Al Pacino
And it was just a fight in the school?
[16:44]
Johnny Depp
No, he was bad with my mother and so he was there. I don't know what brought it on, but I know she was having a fight with his father about something and he was like. He came at me and I said something back. So he came to me and he punched me once.
[17:04]
Al Pacino
This is a guy that was dating your mother?
[17:06]
Johnny Depp
He wasn't dating my mother. She was arguing with his father. Now, my mother might have been dating his father. That I don't know. But I do know that his punch was so much. It just. Life. I thought, this is reality. I'm not in reality. This is reality. Getting hit like that, it just went through every fiber of my body and I just felt it brings right into.
[17:31]
Marc Maron
The present, to the present.
[17:33]
Johnny Depp
And it's like, never again. That's what that needle was in my shoulder. I thought they. I'm not going to anyone bigger than me. No way.
[17:42]
Al Pacino
So you managed to not get hit for your entire life?
[17:44]
Johnny Depp
No, I did. Unfortunately, I did. I got.
[17:50]
Al Pacino
Yeah, you had some fights.
[17:52]
Johnny Depp
I. I had some, but yeah, but then, like, I hated to fight. I hated fighting. Fighting, ridiculous. I hated till this day. But it's.
[18:02]
Al Pacino
It's interesting in the book, you know that after the whole arc of the book, which I loved.
[18:07]
Johnny Depp
Oh, thanks.
[18:08]
Al Pacino
You know, you've been in my consciousness my whole fucking life. So like, so like, right. You know, I'm 60.
[18:15]
Johnny Depp
Wow. Yeah.
[18:15]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[18:16]
Al Pacino
So, like, you know, this guy, as soon as I became aware of the world, you know, Al Pacino was on screen.
[18:22]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[18:23]
Al Pacino
So you build a relationship with whatever you're putting out in the world. You make assumptions about things, and then now, like, you know, 40 years later, I read the book, I'm like, he's nothing like I thought, this guy.
[18:39]
Johnny Depp
I like that. It's a success to me.
[18:41]
Al Pacino
Oh, totally. Because, you know, you choose characters in somebody's work where you like, I think that's him. I think that one, that's him. But it's not. And what got me on to thinking about the end of the book is that after the near death experience and everything else and the whole career, what you look back on is around the time when you got punched.
[19:04]
Johnny Depp
Yeah. Well, what I also look back on is I was caught up in that early childhood stuff, which was such a part of my life. And I was surprised myself because I never wrote a book. Yeah.
[19:18]
Al Pacino
So the discovery, the sense of. The feeling of discovery was happening. You're writing it and you're like, oh.
[19:23]
Johnny Depp
My God, I'm seeing all these images.
[19:26]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[19:26]
Johnny Depp
All they're right in front of me. Yeah, it all happened and it's there. It's coming out of me.
[19:31]
Al Pacino
All the guys that you ran with.
[19:33]
Johnny Depp
Yeah, Especially those three that I talked about. Cliffy and Bruce and Petey.
[19:38]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[19:39]
Al Pacino
Because like, you know, after everything you've accomplished, there's a sort of melancholy for how alive you felt when you were running around the streets in the South Bronx.
[19:49]
Johnny Depp
Exactly. And also when I was pursuing whatever I was pursuing in Greenwich village at age 17, I'll tell you, man, you.
[19:57]
Al Pacino
Know, you had a very rare experience that people don't think about anymore. And because I'm 60, I was sort of fascinated with the beatniks and whatever was going on down there. But I am curious about, you know, after having had a sort of revelation that you could act in high school a bit, that you end up down there with Julian Beck and at the Living Theater, Judith Malin and Judith Malini. And you're what, 17 with Marty Sheen.
[20:26]
Johnny Depp
He and I work there cleaning the toilets. And it was an interesting thing because I remember with Marty, who I thought was an insanely great actor, and you.
[20:38]
Al Pacino
Guys are what, 17? He's what, a little older than you?
[20:40]
Johnny Depp
No, we're the same age.
[20:41]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[20:42]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[20:42]
Al Pacino
So you're kids.
[20:43]
Johnny Depp
We're kids.
[20:43]
Al Pacino
How'd you meet him?
[20:45]
Johnny Depp
In Charlie's class. Charlie Lawton's Class. I talk a lot about Charlie.
[20:48]
Marc Maron
Charlie's through the whole book.
[20:50]
Al Pacino
The best friend. Right.
[20:51]
Johnny Depp
He was my mentor and best friend.
[20:53]
Al Pacino
So he's a little older than you.
[20:54]
Johnny Depp
Oh, he was 11 years older than me.
[20:56]
Al Pacino
Okay, so you met him in Charlie's class?
[20:58]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[20:58]
Al Pacino
Okay.
[20:59]
Johnny Depp
Marty came to Charlie's class and he did something from the Iceman Cometh. Eugene Oneills. And it was. I mean, it was like, you know, because that was the thing, too, at the time. Well, I must have been about 18 at the time he was there. And that's when Jose Quintero was doing Iceman Cometh. And Jason Robarts Jr. Plays this role. I don't know if you've ever seen him play it.
[21:25]
Al Pacino
Jason Robards.
[21:26]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[21:26]
Al Pacino
He's in the movie, right?
[21:28]
Johnny Depp
He's Sidney Lumet made a movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[21:31]
Marc Maron
I gotta watch it because after I.
[21:32]
Al Pacino
Read the book, I'm like, how can I not have seen that?
[21:34]
Johnny Depp
You have to see this.
[21:35]
Diane Keaton
Yeah. Yeah.
[21:36]
Johnny Depp
It simply is the greatest performance I've ever seen.
[21:39]
Marc Maron
Really.
[21:40]
Johnny Depp
Where he goes.
[21:42]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[21:43]
Johnny Depp
So it was an inspiration to all of us.
[21:45]
Al Pacino
Sure.
[21:46]
Johnny Depp
And Marty did it. He truncated it, and he did it as a piece to the app for the acting class.
[21:51]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[21:52]
Johnny Depp
And he was amazing.
[21:53]
Marc Maron
Right.
[21:54]
Al Pacino
So you're like, that's the guy.
[21:55]
Johnny Depp
So we were friends, and then we lived together. He came to live with me in my apartment, and we were really good. We both starving together.
[22:03]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[22:04]
Johnny Depp
The image I have of him is I went out, I think, in Rockaway. We used to go to Rockaway beach from New York City, take about seven different trains. And then we'd get there, and Charlie would be there with this little baby and his wife and a few of the others. And we were like a little group for the class.
[22:26]
Diane Keaton
Sure.
[22:26]
Johnny Depp
We went on to do plays together and stuff. And Marty and I would do that in the surf. Fish for clams, you know, with our hands. Bring them home, we're gonna eat them because we didn't eat all day. And then there's all the sand in them, you know, And I'm by my sink. I have the visual on it. It's great. And I got the clams trying to get the sand out. Marty's just sitting there in the kitchen.
[22:49]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[22:49]
Al Pacino
Yeah.
[22:50]
Johnny Depp
And we're starving, you know, so we're eating it with the sand and everything. It's just great.
[22:55]
Al Pacino
Those are the good old days.
[22:56]
Johnny Depp
Oh, I love them.
[22:57]
Al Pacino
Yeah.
[22:58]
Johnny Depp
You think back on these things. That's the thing, you know, you think back on them and you just have this place. I Mean, it's like you're looking at a mini movie.
[23:08]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[23:09]
Al Pacino
And it kind of. It starts running more and more, you know, I guess as you. As you get older, you know, because, you know, when you're going, you're going, you're going.
[23:16]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[23:17]
Al Pacino
And then, like, you know, if you lose your way, you gotta figure out what the. Where'd I start?
[23:22]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[23:22]
Diane Keaton
Right.
[23:23]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[23:23]
Al Pacino
And that's where you started.
[23:24]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[23:25]
Al Pacino
But, I mean, See, but I think what spoke to me a bit, this book was very. I don't know if the word is fortuitous for me because, you know, I'm about to embark on a roll, you know, and I'm reading a lot of this stuff, and I'm pulling out what I can about your process. But also, the guy I got to play is an old actor, you know, of my age. And it's a funny conceit, but, like, you know, in looking at how you chose roles and what you could and couldn't do, which at some points, it seems like you didn't think you could do anything.
[23:58]
Johnny Depp
Yes, it is true.
[24:01]
Al Pacino
You'd see a role and he'd be like, not for me. I am not gonna.
[24:03]
Johnny Depp
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, Marty and I went the back of the theater.
[24:07]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[24:07]
Johnny Depp
I. I know you might have heard of this play. It was called the Connection. Jack Gelber.
[24:14]
Al Pacino
Okay.
[24:14]
Diane Keaton
Yeah. Yeah.
[24:16]
Johnny Depp
It's called the Connection. They made a film of it.
[24:18]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[24:18]
Johnny Depp
But it. It wasn't. It doesn't really do it justice. It doesn't.
[24:22]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[24:23]
Johnny Depp
But it was great. And they had a little jazz group on stage.
[24:28]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[24:28]
Johnny Depp
And we used to lay the stage rugs down.
[24:32]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[24:33]
Johnny Depp
We would do the set, me and Marty, and then go back, clean the toilets, and then come out and look at the play over and over again. And there's one part in the play that is absolutely. You know, it's an audition piece. And Marty said to me, he said, I'm going to do that.
[24:51]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[24:52]
Johnny Depp
I'm going to be on that stage doing that part. And I looked at him and I thought, yeah, look at him. Michael Tannell. It's not for me. I wasn't there yet. I just was from the South Bronx coming in, and it was something. And he did it.
[25:08]
Al Pacino
He did it.
[25:09]
Johnny Depp
He did it.
[25:09]
Al Pacino
And he nailed it.
[25:10]
Johnny Depp
He nailed it.
[25:11]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[25:12]
Johnny Depp
Through the roof.
[25:12]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[25:13]
Johnny Depp
And then he started getting work, you know, and then I had that whole section. So he was, like, working actor.
[25:19]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[25:19]
Johnny Depp
He was in the play, and he saw me on the subway. He was on the platform, and I had not you know, and he said, come. Come be my understudy. He said, you honor me for which show would be my. He did a show called the Wicked Cooks at the Orpheum on Second Avenue. And he had this part in. I couldn't even understand the play. It was way over my head. And so. But he said, understudy himself. But I didn't realize understudying is you understudy the poet.
[25:47]
Al Pacino
You got to know the part.
[25:48]
Johnny Depp
Of course, I didn't do that. I didn't learn. I just was wandering in the theater. And then this guy. I have to say his name. I have to. It's kind of. His name was, I think, Vik Schimick. The guy from, I guess, the Czech area.
[26:06]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[26:06]
Johnny Depp
Czechoslovakia. And those great. Poland. The great theaters they had there. And so he came from. Betty, had a bit. He had a name.
[26:14]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[26:15]
Johnny Depp
And he was this kind of.
[26:16]
Al Pacino
This was his show. He directed it.
[26:18]
Johnny Depp
He directed.
[26:18]
Al Pacino
Okay.
[26:19]
Johnny Depp
And there was a cast in there. And he was. Did not like me.
[26:22]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[26:23]
Johnny Depp
Just. You know, I'll say. He just saw me as a loser. And that was it. This guy's not going to bring flowers, you know, to rehearsals. He's just not in this room, you know. And then he started. So he put two and two together and thought, yeah, you know, I was a method actor. That's why I was always so quiet. I was sort of very introverted when I hung around the theater. People who I didn't know. So I was very shy. I didn't know. But I had always had this look on my face of, you know, an anarchic look. People don't like that. Sometimes it comes to me now. I'll be at some party, and that look comes on. I said, al, you can't look like that now. You've got to change the look. You've done things. You have personality. People know who you are. Be a little more, you know, social. Come on, now.
[27:14]
Al Pacino
This happens now?
[27:15]
Johnny Depp
Yes, to this day, it happens. I go to a place sometimes. So he comes to me with all things. Of all things, he comes to me. Marty Sheen with laryngitis. He just comes. I can't talk. He's joking. I thought, he's kidding. This is a fucking act. So I'm thinking, what are you saying? I said, marty, what are you doing? He says, I can't go on. Can you imagine?
[27:47]
Al Pacino
You don't know the play.
[27:48]
Johnny Depp
Of course I don't know the play. I don't know anything. They march around. They wanted me to play A soldier has no Lines, but just marches around. I couldn't. Couldn't do it. I couldn't follow the marches where it was going. My mind was somewhere, you know. Anyway, I'm saying, I just can't go on. So he starts trying to help me with the point.
[28:08]
Diane Keaton
Right.
[28:10]
Johnny Depp
And I'm really upset. Moni, this is a lost cause. Please, I can't do this thing. And Bishop, the director.
[28:17]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[28:18]
Johnny Depp
He says, come here, I'll make you do the part. I said. He says, here, say this.
[28:24]
Al Pacino
Look.
[28:24]
Johnny Depp
What are you looking at over there? Then he starts to criticize me. Like you Method. The Method actors. He did method actors. I wasn't a method actor.
[28:33]
Al Pacino
You were a kid.
[28:34]
Johnny Depp
I was a kid, but somehow that look on my face.
[28:40]
Al Pacino
You kind of talk about this throughout the book. These moments where you like people, they didn't like you, they just didn't like me.
[28:46]
Johnny Depp
I didn't participate in something. But as it was, I have pretty. You know, I have a jovial sort of side.
[28:54]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[28:55]
Johnny Depp
I grew up with that. That's how I'm still alive. Yeah, I was funny.
[28:58]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[28:59]
Johnny Depp
And.
[29:00]
Al Pacino
But you just. You were nervous.
[29:02]
Johnny Depp
I wasn't even nervous. I was observing. I felt out of place in this everywhere literary world.
[29:08]
Al Pacino
Yeah, but it seems like everywhere, like, eventually, whether it was LA or a.
[29:13]
Johnny Depp
Party, I didn't go. I wouldn't even think about L. A.
[29:16]
Al Pacino
Well, that was the interesting thing about the beginnings, is that there was this sense that you seem to keep where. Where you were, like, this is an art. We're doing something.
[29:25]
Johnny Depp
True.
[29:26]
Al Pacino
This is. We are artists. We're not entertainers first.
[29:30]
Johnny Depp
That's right.
[29:31]
Al Pacino
Right.
[29:31]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[29:32]
Al Pacino
So there was a moment where you. You must have realized that. I mean, the earnestness of the living theater. Right. It was like life or death.
[29:41]
Johnny Depp
It. It made off Broadway. Yeah, that's it.
[29:44]
Al Pacino
But when you saw that kind of work, you were like this.
[29:46]
Johnny Depp
Oh, my God.
[29:47]
Al Pacino
This is the thing.
[29:48]
Johnny Depp
Oh, my God.
[29:49]
Al Pacino
And then.
[29:49]
Johnny Depp
Did you ever hear a play called the.
[29:52]
Marc Maron
Oh, probably not.
[29:54]
Al Pacino
Don't Kill Yourself?
[29:55]
Johnny Depp
No, this play was written by Kenneth the Brig.
[30:00]
Al Pacino
Okay.
[30:00]
Johnny Depp
Yeah. The play was one day a Night in the Brig. Yeah, I had to go. I had a little room in the village. Just stayed in it for a couple of days after seeing that play.
[30:12]
Al Pacino
So you're sensitive and it devastated you.
[30:15]
Johnny Depp
Yeah, it devastated. Devastated me.
[30:16]
Al Pacino
But when was the moment where you were like, you know, I'm. I'm doing it. It took, like, on stage where you felt, not, not, I'm going to be an actor. But you're on stage and you're like, it's happening.
[30:24]
Johnny Depp
Well, it's in the book, too. When I was doing Strindberg's credit.
[30:27]
Al Pacino
That's the problem with reading the book. I already know, but.
[30:30]
Johnny Depp
Well, it was. It was that time and I had Charlie, of course, Charlie was in his class and. And I was doing it. And I was doing Strindberg. Strindberg.
[30:40]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[30:40]
Johnny Depp
And I did hello out there.
[30:42]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[30:42]
Johnny Depp
Which is a Saurian play. Which. A beautiful play.
[30:44]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[30:45]
Johnny Depp
And I was doing a Cafe Chino. And I wasn't very good at it, whatever that means, but I was doing something there. And then we used to do 16 shows a week.
[30:58]
Diane Keaton
Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah.
[30:59]
Johnny Depp
And so we used to pass the hat. That's how we ate.
[31:01]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[31:02]
Johnny Depp
And it was fun. And it was the Village and it was. What a time to be there.
[31:07]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[31:08]
Johnny Depp
I tell you.
[31:08]
Al Pacino
Well, it was. Because art was important.
[31:11]
Johnny Depp
Yeah. That's all it was.
[31:12]
Al Pacino
You know, it wasn't like. It wasn't careerism and it wasn't even like acting School was like, this stuff is. And everything was changing. Right. The 60s or late 50s.
[31:22]
Johnny Depp
That's right. It was the 60s.
[31:24]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[31:24]
Johnny Depp
And it was. I never thought of. Business had nothing to do with it. Money had nothing to do with it.
[31:30]
Al Pacino
That seemed to. That went right into your 70s.
[31:34]
Johnny Depp
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, man.
[31:38]
Al Pacino
Well, that's a funny thing about being an artist because I started, like, after I read the horrible thing with the accountant. Later in your life that.
[31:44]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[31:45]
Al Pacino
Well, but the fact is, is that, you know, that whole side of the business knows, like, half. Half of the time they're like these fucking guys, these clowns. We're just going to. They don't know anything. Just. They're good. So we'll make money off them.
[31:56]
Johnny Depp
That's right.
[31:57]
Al Pacino
And we don't know. We don't know what from money.
[31:59]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[31:59]
Al Pacino
All you know is when you have enough to eat, places you want to eat.
[32:01]
Johnny Depp
Exactly. Right. That's it. I mean, you have to learn. I still, to this day, I just refuse to learn.
[32:09]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[32:10]
Johnny Depp
I learned that I need to have some people around me that you trust.
[32:13]
Al Pacino
You gotta find those guys. I think that's the interesting thing, too, about the end of the book and reflecting on those first friends is I think there's a longing for a trust that cannot be replicated. Like the one you had with those guys.
[32:30]
Johnny Depp
No.
[32:31]
Al Pacino
Right.
[32:31]
Johnny Depp
No.
[32:32]
Al Pacino
And there's nobody. You're going to get in your orbit. It's like, this guy seems like a nice guy, but back then it was implicit.
[32:39]
Johnny Depp
Yes.
[32:39]
Al Pacino
It was the way it Was. And then. So as you move into this profession, into this art, it's funny because, you know, I don't know, you say at times that, you know, you were seen as difficult, but it seems that every instance of that, it was really to service the story.
[32:57]
Johnny Depp
That's right.
[32:58]
Al Pacino
And that started very early on, right?
[32:59]
Johnny Depp
Yeah, it did.
[33:01]
Al Pacino
And when did you really start to put together a craft for yourself of acting?
[33:05]
Johnny Depp
Well, I had this idea.
[33:07]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[33:08]
Johnny Depp
I. I didn't like acting class. And of course, Charlie was a teacher and.
[33:13]
Marc Maron
But you liked him for some reason.
[33:14]
Al Pacino
I loved him because he. He was a friend.
[33:16]
Johnny Depp
He. He saw me as. He sort of came from kind of area I came from. There was a connection to him.
[33:24]
Diane Keaton
Yes.
[33:25]
Johnny Depp
He was just way ahead.
[33:26]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[33:27]
Johnny Depp
You know, and. Yeah, he found that I. I had gifts.
[33:30]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[33:31]
Johnny Depp
He saw certain gifts.
[33:32]
Al Pacino
Well, so did that teacher of yours, right?
[33:34]
Johnny Depp
Blanche Ro. Oh, my God, yes.
[33:36]
Al Pacino
I mean, you didn't even know what you were doing, but she went to your grandmother and said this. This. He's got to do this.
[33:42]
Johnny Depp
Yeah. He said that to her? Something like that.
[33:45]
Diane Keaton
Yeah. Yeah.
[33:45]
Johnny Depp
My mother got a little nervous about it because mom thought I was, you know, kind of, you know, poor people don't. Don't do this kind of thing, you know?
[33:54]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, yeah.
[33:56]
Johnny Depp
But I do know that what I really did when I worked with her is with Rothstein. Rothstein, when you were a kid, plays with her. And she would put me. I'd read the Bible in assembly. How old? I was anywhere from 10 to 12. I'd read the Bible to the class, and I loved reading the words. I didn't know what the words meant. I didn't even know what I was talking about. But they filled me up with stuff. And I only recognized that recently. That's what's part of my thing. I love words. And she had these feelings when we put me in a play, that play that got me. My mother and father came to. My father and mother never saw them together except that time when I was three or four years old, because he left. He left because he was in the army. He was in the war. And then he came back and he was never there again.
[34:57]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[34:58]
Johnny Depp
And this little thing in the theater, watching the. Ray Milan's last weekend. Last weekend, I see my dad down there.
[35:08]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[35:09]
Al Pacino
And I'm with my mom up in the balcony.
[35:11]
Johnny Depp
Up in the balcony. I see him and I see some big gun on his side. You know, he's an MP or something.
[35:17]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[35:18]
Johnny Depp
I said, dada. So I must have been that Young. And she kept saying, shh, come on.
[35:24]
Al Pacino
She wanted miss.
[35:25]
Johnny Depp
She didn't want him to see her. He was hiding. I got used to that in my older age. But the way it is now, it's a question of a young kid who all of a sudden liked this stuff. I like a lot of. You'll hear a lot of actors say they liked their attention. The fact that you're with your other kid, you're on the family. Bit of a family. And I love words.
[35:55]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[35:55]
Johnny Depp
So.
[35:56]
Al Pacino
And she put you in the play and you. And they came. Did it go well?
[36:00]
Johnny Depp
I knew they were there, so it didn't go well. That night. I wasn't as good as I even said it at the time. Like that. Well, that's the play. I came off stage and some adult came up to me, say, kid. And I guess 13, 12. And the kids, he said to me, hey, he's an adult. He said, you're going to be the next Marlon Brando.
[36:20]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[36:21]
Johnny Depp
I said, who's Marlon Brando? I don't know. I didn't know who he was. How would I know?
[36:26]
Al Pacino
But when did you realize you didn't like acting class? Was that with the Bergdorf experience?
[36:30]
Johnny Depp
Yeah, I, I, I, I never sort of like, I always felt shy and stuff and, and I tried out for the Actor Studio, which I failed one.
[36:39]
Al Pacino
For the first time.
[36:40]
Johnny Depp
First time. And Cliffy tried out when I was 16.
[36:43]
Al Pacino
The other kid.
[36:44]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[36:45]
Diane Keaton
Didn't go.
[36:45]
Al Pacino
It didn't end well for Cliff. But he was going to do the acting too.
[36:49]
Johnny Depp
Yeah, he was. Bruce was.
[36:51]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[36:51]
Al Pacino
Everybody.
[36:52]
Johnny Depp
He was in performing arts when he did that with the teacher there.
[36:55]
Al Pacino
Oh, that was a performing arts high school. That's right.
[36:57]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[36:58]
Al Pacino
So you didn't make the Actor Studio. You didn't like the. What's it. Was it Howard Bergdorf? Is that his.
[37:03]
Johnny Depp
Matt Berghoff. I didn't, Yeah. I didn't know quite what I was doing yet.
[37:07]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[37:07]
Johnny Depp
It took me time to display.
[37:09]
Al Pacino
Are you doing plays and stuff?
[37:10]
Johnny Depp
Yeah, I was doing. I wasn't. I was doing acting. In the classes.
[37:15]
Diane Keaton
Yeah. Yeah.
[37:16]
Johnny Depp
In the classroom. I get in a scene and I do the scene. As I gradually started to learn what that's about.
[37:24]
Diane Keaton
Yes.
[37:25]
Johnny Depp
The juxtaposition of it, what you have to do. Doing a scene in front of people.
[37:30]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[37:31]
Johnny Depp
With a partner.
[37:32]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[37:33]
Johnny Depp
Is the best way to learn.
[37:34]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[37:35]
Johnny Depp
It's just the best way because you're there and you're doing it and you. And it takes time.
[37:41]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[37:42]
Al Pacino
There's a point where, in the book where you Said this is where, like. Because I don't. I don't usually do this for you. Mark up the book, you know, but, you know, I get nervous and I'm like, well, I should mark up the book a little bit because Al is going to be here. But there was something about when what you kind of rendered it down to, where am I? What do I do?
[38:02]
Johnny Depp
Yeah, where am I going?
[38:03]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[38:03]
Johnny Depp
That kind of stuff. Those are your go tos.
[38:06]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[38:06]
Johnny Depp
Yeah. Why am I here?
[38:08]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[38:08]
Al Pacino
Here's the character. Where am I going? Why am I here? What do I.
[38:11]
Johnny Depp
You know, I do it to this day, I was doing in Lear.
[38:15]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[38:15]
Johnny Depp
We all got together. We're talking about a scene, you know, this is Shakespeare. What's going on? Let's just talk about it, you know.
[38:21]
Al Pacino
But it's funny. Like, at a certain age, a guy like you who loves Shakespeare so much, it's sort of like, well, I guess it's time.
[38:27]
Johnny Depp
Time to do Lear for Mr. Lear. Oh, my God. Yes. Finally. They kept pushing me to do that old guy. You know, I. You know, we all stay away from it. You know, I thought I'd be gone before I had to do it. I'm still here. So I did.
[38:42]
Al Pacino
And now it's time.
[38:43]
Johnny Depp
Now it's time.
[38:44]
Al Pacino
So the Strindberg experience was really kind.
[38:48]
Marc Maron
Of locked you up.
[38:48]
Johnny Depp
That was the big one. It was so interesting because I was in this play that Charlie. I got. I was a messenger.
[38:58]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[38:58]
Johnny Depp
And I worked for this place and I met this dispatcher. His name was Frank Biancomano.
[39:05]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[39:06]
Johnny Depp
And he had his own theater in the Village. Naturally. Like where Soho House is now. There was nothing there. Yeah, they're just factories then. And he had this place, you flight. And we would do plays there. I did. You know, Tiger at the Gates.
[39:21]
Al Pacino
You're in your 20s now.
[39:23]
Johnny Depp
I'm. I'm just touching 21.
[39:27]
Al Pacino
Yeah.
[39:27]
Johnny Depp
Okay.
[39:27]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[39:28]
Johnny Depp
So I'm in this play with Charlie Love, too. Yeah, recommended. And I'm doing it. I'm working with two pros.
[39:36]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[39:36]
Johnny Depp
And the other parts, Yeah, I mean, they're really good. Then Bianco Mano was directing. A little problem with the lead guy, Henry Calvin, a great actor, and he was doing a wonderful job. And he was down this little theater and I didn't know what the problem was, but Frank took over the role and fired him. Yeah, we didn't make money, though. I mean, nobody was. You're not losing a paycheck. But this other woman was there. I forget her name. Herma something. And Charlie Came in to direct it. And Charlie started. He saw it, then he started directing it with Frank and Herman and me. It's a beautiful play. It's creditors. So I'm on stage at one point and it just, like, happened. I just started to speak the words of Strindberg.
[40:31]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[40:32]
Johnny Depp
But so connected to me that something happened to me Right. While I was doing it.
[40:37]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[40:38]
Johnny Depp
I thought, this. This is. This is it. It's like you're on at the. You know, you're on the cello or something and you're playing Bach and all of a sudden it's in you and it's coming out. This is what I. And you. You just lifted and you wanna. You wanna do this?
[40:52]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, this.
[40:53]
Johnny Depp
I want to do this again.
[40:54]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[40:54]
Johnny Depp
And again.
[40:55]
Al Pacino
You know, chase it.
[40:56]
Johnny Depp
This is Chase it. And I said, it doesn't matter if I become successful. If I'm famous. I'm not famous. If I eat, I don't eat. I have money. I don't have money. That. This is what matters.
[41:09]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[41:10]
Johnny Depp
It's crazy. This is the only thing that matters now.
[41:14]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[41:14]
Johnny Depp
And. And that was it. And then I was devoted. It's sort of a. It's.
[41:19]
Al Pacino
What a great moment.
[41:20]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[41:20]
Diane Keaton
You.
[41:21]
Johnny Depp
Can I have a photo of it? Because at the time there was, you know, the great Richard Avedon.
[41:27]
Diane Keaton
Yes, Right. Yeah.
[41:28]
Johnny Depp
He had a nephew. His name was Michael Avedon.
[41:31]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[41:31]
Johnny Depp
He's gone. Poor guy. But there he was, and his sister sort of and I were having just a flirtation. It wasn't anything. And we were young and she was at the theater because she did something else at this theater. Actors Gallery. And he took a picture. He took a photo.
[41:50]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[41:51]
Marc Maron
Of your moment.
[41:52]
Johnny Depp
Performance of. And there's the moment. I have the photo. It's in the book of when I think I.
[41:58]
Al Pacino
In the book, like, I've got the. The one I ended up with was the.
[42:02]
Diane Keaton
The.
[42:03]
Al Pacino
The. The one. The.
[42:04]
Diane Keaton
The.
[42:04]
Al Pacino
Before they printed the, you know, the galley copy.
[42:07]
Johnny Depp
Oh, the galley copy.
[42:08]
Al Pacino
I'll tell you, man, when they sent this to us, we had to sign an NDA. I was in Canada working on something, and they're like, this is top secret.
[42:15]
Diane Keaton
You know?
[42:15]
Al Pacino
And then the fucked up thing is, it goes to. I get to the apartment, I'm staying in Vancouver, and they're like, we never got it. I'm like, you don't understand. This is like nuclear secrets. This is Pacino's memoir. Should we call the police? It made us crazy. We had to fill out paperwork to get the fucking book. Oh, my God. But from from that point on, then you really start. Do you feel like you had control of it? Do you feel like you could make it happen again? Was there something in place?
[42:45]
Johnny Depp
But I sort of understood why I'm doing it.
[42:48]
Marc Maron
Right.
[42:49]
Johnny Depp
I understood that this is something that I actually want to do. I don't want to go to auditions and see agents. I just want to do this.
[42:56]
Diane Keaton
Yeah. Yeah.
[42:57]
Johnny Depp
And so that became my sort of mantra.
[42:59]
Al Pacino
Right.
[43:00]
Johnny Depp
And.
[43:01]
Al Pacino
But when you looked at pieces, okay, so you have that revelation, and you're, you know, you've done some acting classes, but you're doing anything you can to act. What after that moment, do you look at a piece of writing and say, like, I can. You know, I can make this happen?
[43:17]
Johnny Depp
Yes. That's all I do now is if I relate to a piece, I can't do anything I don't relate to. I try to sometimes. And if I fall on my face, I really feel a connection to something. Then I could. I could. I could go.
[43:34]
Al Pacino
You can find it.
[43:35]
Johnny Depp
I can find it.
[43:35]
Al Pacino
Because you can connect it to yourself.
[43:37]
Johnny Depp
That's right.
[43:38]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[43:38]
Al Pacino
Because it was interesting after years and years of watching you, you know, and then going through the movies and stuff. And then there was a period there where we saw you occasionally. And there's an interesting thing with actors your age is that sometimes they lean on the tricks that they've learned.
[43:53]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[43:53]
Al Pacino
And you can see it. They don't have to work as hard because they've got a series of ticks that gets them through a thing.
[44:00]
Johnny Depp
Yeah, yeah.
[44:01]
Al Pacino
And, you know, after.
[44:02]
Johnny Depp
And they're brilliant. Of course.
[44:03]
Al Pacino
Of course. You know, I'm not denying that. But there was a point where, you know, you had done a few brash characters. I think you'd done Scent of a Woman and stuff. And you were operating at this level of intensity. And there's, you know, I'm thinking, like, wait, wait, is Al. You know, what's his range right now? And then you do that Kevorkian movie. I'm like, he's back. Look at that. Like, you know, like, I was so impressed. I'm like, he's doing the work. This guy's a sensitive guy, a vulnerable guy, you know, to completely transformed himself.
[44:33]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[44:34]
Al Pacino
It's great. I got a question for you as a personal question and that I believe. Like, I saw you do American Buffalo in Boston when I was in college.
[44:42]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[44:42]
Al Pacino
At the Shubert, I think.
[44:43]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[44:44]
Al Pacino
Now, after I saw it, because I was a big fan, I left going, like, I think there's still a little Cuban in There. Is that possible? Is there still a little Cuban.
[44:51]
Johnny Depp
It's totally possible. You know. Why? What? I've just had been doing Scarface.
[44:56]
Al Pacino
Right.
[44:57]
Johnny Depp
It carried over, I'm sure.
[44:59]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[44:59]
Al Pacino
It was kind of interesting, you know, because I'd watched Scarface. I'm like, he's a little Tony. I think it's a little Tony.
[45:03]
Johnny Depp
And that's. Right. It probably is. That's very observing, because I was just doing. In San Francisco.
[45:11]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[45:12]
Johnny Depp
I was doing. No, in la. We were doing Scarface.
[45:17]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[45:17]
Johnny Depp
I had nine months of that.
[45:19]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[45:20]
Al Pacino
But it must have been out already for me to know that.
[45:22]
Johnny Depp
Yeah, yeah.
[45:24]
Al Pacino
Must have just come out, because I probably saw it immediately. All right, so, okay, so now you got the gift and you know what you want to do, and you're doing it. So how does it transpire that, you know that. How does the film career start?
[45:38]
Johnny Depp
The film career is, you know, the big thing that happened to me. I should say this because it's probably the. It was like, I did a play called the Indian Wants the Bronx.
[45:52]
Marc Maron
Ezra Horowitz.
[45:53]
Al Pacino
I did that play in college.
[45:54]
Johnny Depp
There it is.
[45:55]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[45:56]
Al Pacino
It's great.
[45:57]
Johnny Depp
Were you the guy who wrote me a letter many years later? Well, some young actor wrote me a letter and said, there's a part in the play. I know. You did it.
[46:10]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[46:11]
Johnny Depp
He said, what. How did you get. Why did you beat up the phone booth?
[46:16]
Al Pacino
Yeah, yeah.
[46:19]
Johnny Depp
I said, no, that's stage direction. Don't look at that. Because that was not in the play for a while. But I had been doing the play for almost a year.
[46:29]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[46:30]
Johnny Depp
And. And something happened one night. And, you know, transitions come out of nowhere, but they come out of repetition.
[46:37]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[46:38]
Johnny Depp
See, repetition keeps me green.
[46:40]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[46:40]
Johnny Depp
That's one of the. It's a saying.
[46:42]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[46:43]
Johnny Depp
Because the more you do something, the more fresh it gets.
[46:46]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[46:46]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[46:47]
Al Pacino
Right.
[46:47]
Johnny Depp
That's the strangest thing, because you don't have to.
[46:50]
Al Pacino
The. The act of memorizing goes.
[46:51]
Johnny Depp
That's right. Your mind is not in it.
[46:53]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[46:54]
Johnny Depp
Everything else is. You don't have to remember something. So you can hear and see everything that's going on. And so I. I found myself one night I had. Doing the play a year.
[47:05]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[47:05]
Johnny Depp
All around and stuff. And then I just went.
[47:09]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[47:10]
Johnny Depp
And that was because I felt it.
[47:16]
Al Pacino
When he beat up the phone.
[47:17]
Johnny Depp
Yeah. Beat up the phone.
[47:18]
Diane Keaton
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[47:19]
Johnny Depp
It was weird. I was doing it. I don't understand what the fuck you were.
[47:21]
Al Pacino
You were Murph.
[47:22]
Johnny Depp
I was Murph, Yeah.
[47:24]
Al Pacino
And so then that. Then Israel added that into the stage.
[47:27]
Johnny Depp
That's right. He thought that'd be good for being the play. I said, But Israel, you know, this is my thing. I've been doing it for a year and a half. You know, I understand certain things about the play, you know. So I told the guy, you know, it's better. Maybe you don't need to do it. That came out of a transition that developed over a year of playing it. Every time, every night.
[47:48]
Al Pacino
You know, I saw a guy do it in college and he peed in the garbage can on the set during the play. But then when they were roughhousing, the bottle that he used to pee with fell out onto the stage. And I'm like, that kind of. That kind of ruined it.
[48:05]
Johnny Depp
I knew that ahead of time. As soon as you start, that pee's gonna go somewhere. Yeah, there's the bottle. Oh, my God.
[48:13]
Al Pacino
So, okay, so that gets you grotesque.
[48:15]
Johnny Depp
If you don't mind my saying it.
[48:16]
Al Pacino
I've seen, you know, what happens in theater. There's some.
[48:19]
Johnny Depp
There's.
[48:19]
Al Pacino
You talk about a moment where a woman, you know, in England.
[48:23]
Johnny Depp
Oh, God, yes.
[48:24]
Al Pacino
If you got a cigarette, and you're doing. What are you doing, Indian?
[48:27]
Johnny Depp
I'm doing Buffalo.
[48:28]
Al Pacino
Buffalo, right.
[48:29]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, yeah.
[48:29]
Johnny Depp
And we're talking and she comes up, you know, wandering, and she gets right to the foot of the proscenium and looks up at us, and me says, got a light? You got a light? Got a lie, I thought, lady. And the guy I'm playing with says, we're working here, man. We're walking here. You know, we're working here.
[48:49]
Al Pacino
But you didn't break character because.
[48:50]
Johnny Depp
No, no, we didn't.
[48:51]
Al Pacino
And it is a testament to the naturalism of the show that she thought you maybe, you know, whatever alcohol or brain glitch she had. I'm just going to go ask those guys.
[49:00]
Johnny Depp
That's right. I even join them if I have to.
[49:02]
Al Pacino
Come on up. So, okay, so Indian gets you to Panic in Needle Park.
[49:07]
Johnny Depp
Yeah, Indian gets me to Marty Brickman.
[49:11]
Al Pacino
Marty, your manager?
[49:13]
Johnny Depp
The manager. And he's another reason I'm here today. Yeah, that guy. So Faye Dunaway, who was a real hot star, big time, great actress, she's did Bonnie and Klein. And she comes to the theater and she sees me in it. I didn't know her. I never all. She went and told Marty Brinkman, yeah.
[49:32]
Al Pacino
You gotta get this guy.
[49:34]
Johnny Depp
Go see this kid.
[49:35]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, yeah.
[49:36]
Johnny Depp
So he goes down with a guy named David Beetleman. I don't know if you heard of him. He's the guy who shot himself at the end of his life. He was the biggest agent.
[49:43]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[49:44]
Johnny Depp
They both come in.
[49:45]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[49:46]
Johnny Depp
And that's the story of Marty Bregman. Marty Bregman says, I want to handle you.
[49:51]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, yeah.
[49:51]
Johnny Depp
And he had Streisand.
[49:53]
Diane Keaton
Right.
[49:53]
Johnny Depp
He had some of these people, like Judy Garland passed. So he had them and. But he had Alan Alder. Yeah, he had Alan Alder. That was the actor he had. Yeah, and a couple of other people. And I remember, you know, him talking to him. And I remember one point he stretched out on his chair and I saw his gun.
[50:14]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[50:15]
Johnny Depp
I mean, it was unusual, someone with a gun in those days. And so I thought, wow, it's got a white handle, too. Reminded me of my father's.45 when he picked us up at the movie house. He was an mp, but I used it in Heat.
[50:30]
Al Pacino
Oh, did you?
[50:31]
Johnny Depp
Yeah, I used that guy. I remember that gun. And I said, I don't have my guy.
[50:34]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, yeah.
[50:35]
Al Pacino
Find the gun.
[50:35]
Johnny Depp
Find the gun for the white handle. Yeah. So anyway, he was something powerful. And I went back and I told Charlie, I said, you know, I just don't trust this guy. But I trust him because I think he understands something out there that I'll never, never understand.
[50:53]
Al Pacino
That's his job.
[50:54]
Johnny Depp
And Charlie said, he's like a bulwark for you to keep going. I said, that's what I feel. And I stuck with him. And I really grew to love him, of course.
[51:03]
Al Pacino
Well, it's interesting because you also. You talk about how when you saw the Graduate, you realized that everything was changing. Everything was changing. The possibilities of actors that change.
[51:14]
Johnny Depp
That's right.
[51:14]
Al Pacino
It was a big shift in the 70s with everything that was going on. That was. That was the cutting edge of it.
[51:19]
Johnny Depp
And you realized Easy Rider, I think, is what started, you know, but.
[51:23]
Al Pacino
But the place for the humanizing of the antihero.
[51:27]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[51:27]
Al Pacino
Right. And that, you know, you didn't need a happy ending.
[51:31]
Johnny Depp
No.
[51:31]
Al Pacino
And you didn't need tragedy necessarily, but you could be sort of like. Well, I'm not sure how I feel about that.
[51:37]
Johnny Depp
Exactly. That's right. Yeah, that's right. And it was there and I saw it. I was. Because I had heard a lot about Dustin.
[51:47]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[51:47]
Johnny Depp
First of all, he was great in the Journey of the Fifth Horse. I don't know if you ever heard. No, he was amazing. And he was also. But they televised it.
[51:58]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[52:01]
Johnny Depp
And he was at Theater Company of Boston where he was doing all. Then he did a play called. Eh.
[52:09]
Al Pacino
You were a fan I was a fan.
[52:11]
Johnny Depp
Oh, I thought, this guy is. This guy's great.
[52:14]
Al Pacino
What was he at the Actor Studio?
[52:16]
Johnny Depp
Yes.
[52:16]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[52:16]
Johnny Depp
He was at the Actors earlier than you. Around the same time. I think we all got in together. Bob De Niro.
[52:22]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[52:23]
Johnny Depp
Dustin and me.
[52:24]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[52:24]
Al Pacino
And what year was that? Oh, God, late 60s.
[52:28]
Johnny Depp
Probably the late 60s. 7. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[52:32]
Marc Maron
So.
[52:33]
Al Pacino
So you guys were the big three. He's a little older.
[52:36]
Diane Keaton
No?
[52:36]
Johnny Depp
Yeah, he's older than me.
[52:37]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[52:38]
Al Pacino
Yeah.
[52:38]
Johnny Depp
Dustin's a few years older than me.
[52:40]
Al Pacino
It's interesting because my assumption was, you know, when. Just because I mythologized based on very little information that, you know, when I saw Strasberg in Godfather 2, that, you know, that the reason why you pulled him in was because this was your mentor. But, you know, you kind of.
[52:57]
Johnny Depp
Charlie was my mentor.
[52:58]
Al Pacino
Right.
[52:58]
Johnny Depp
Charlie actually told me, go look at Lee for Maya.
[53:03]
Al Pacino
For Lance.
[53:03]
Johnny Depp
Lance.
[53:04]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[53:04]
Johnny Depp
He told me also look at John Gazelle, who's a dear friend of mine, before. For Dog Day Afternoon.
[53:13]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[53:14]
Al Pacino
Well, yeah. So these guys were around, and Charlie was the guy. Because my assumption was, like, this is the teacher, this is the student. But it really wasn't like that.
[53:20]
Johnny Depp
No.
[53:20]
Al Pacino
I mean, because you say, like. Yeah, Lee was around.
[53:23]
Johnny Depp
He was around. I loved Lee as a person. I loved him as a theorist, too. I mean, I've seen a couple of his shows. He put on about the great actresses from Dusa to Madame Fisk.
[53:35]
Diane Keaton
Right.
[53:36]
Johnny Depp
All these, you know, Sarah Bernhardt.
[53:39]
Al Pacino
Yeah, yeah, sure.
[53:40]
Johnny Depp
And so he'd have Sundays, Lee, where he would, you know, you'll hear Toscanini at a rehearsal, and he starts screaming and this is great stuff.
[53:49]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[53:50]
Johnny Depp
You heard Sarah Bernhard. Hard.
[53:52]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[53:53]
Johnny Depp
Doing Fair Dr. In French. He had these copies. He had Caruso's first record. Oh.
[54:00]
Al Pacino
So he's opening. He's opening minds.
[54:02]
Johnny Depp
Yeah. So he said kind of a place to it.
[54:05]
Al Pacino
It was like a salon.
[54:06]
Johnny Depp
Yeah, a salon.
[54:08]
Al Pacino
Yeah.
[54:08]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[54:08]
Johnny Depp
That feeling. But it was fun.
[54:10]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[54:10]
Al Pacino
So Panic at Needle park gets you out there.
[54:14]
Diane Keaton
It's.
[54:14]
Al Pacino
It's. I watched that recently. It's a great movie. It is Schatzberg. And, like, there's, you know, the. The drug use in that movie was disturbing.
[54:23]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[54:23]
Al Pacino
Like, you know, he didn't. He didn't hold back. He got right up in there. You saw the needle. You saw everything.
[54:28]
Johnny Depp
It's a love story. It's a love story.
[54:30]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[54:30]
Johnny Depp
You know. Sure.
[54:32]
Al Pacino
A love story with addicts. Which is.
[54:34]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[54:34]
Al Pacino
Because the true love is.
[54:36]
Johnny Depp
And it's a true story. Joan didion wrote it, you know, and Dominic Dunn.
[54:42]
Al Pacino
Yeah. And that gets you to Copeland.
[54:45]
Johnny Depp
Yeah, yeah. That's the big one.
[54:47]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[54:48]
Johnny Depp
Because I. Then I went to Broadway with Tiger.
[54:51]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[54:51]
Johnny Depp
I wore the Tony. I won an Obie for India wants the bronze.
[54:55]
Diane Keaton
Okay.
[54:55]
Al Pacino
So you're like a stage actor all of a sudden?
[54:58]
Johnny Depp
I'm, you know, I've got some sort of, you know, these things are happening, you know, and. And Charlie's right with it. And that's the time when Charlie first saw Indian Monster Bronx. So Charlie in a loft.
[55:10]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[55:11]
Marc Maron
Right.
[55:11]
Al Pacino
So.
[55:12]
Johnny Depp
And him and Penny are there. They see the play.
[55:14]
Al Pacino
His wife.
[55:14]
Johnny Depp
Yeah, his wife.
[55:15]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[55:16]
Johnny Depp
And we go to. This is before anything.
[55:19]
Diane Keaton
This.
[55:19]
Johnny Depp
Before I got hired to do it off Broadway.
[55:21]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[55:22]
Johnny Depp
He sees it and he comes and he says, you're here, Al.
[55:25]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, you're here.
[55:27]
Johnny Depp
This is it.
[55:28]
Diane Keaton
Wow.
[55:28]
Johnny Depp
And we went out to celebrate at Canal Street. We didn't have a pot to piss in, but we're celebrating about something that's never going to happen, of course. But it did happen, which is so weird.
[55:38]
Al Pacino
But so with your relation with Charlie throughout your entire life.
[55:41]
Johnny Depp
Yeah. Right to the end of his.
[55:44]
Al Pacino
So did you go outside of, you know, friendship and whatever? Did. Would you go to him when you had questions about characters?
[55:52]
Johnny Depp
Yeah, I would go to him all the time. I would. He would read scripts for me.
[55:55]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[55:56]
Johnny Depp
He read Star wars because I read Star Wars. He offered me Star wars when I was. When I came back to Broadway, I think after I did Godfather and stuff. And naturally I was getting all these offers, and I read this thing because. Who directed that again?
[56:15]
Marc Maron
George Lucas.
[56:17]
Johnny Depp
George Lucas, who I actually met in San Francisco. And I said, I don't understand this play. Yeah. So I said, charlie, read this thing. They are offering me a fortune here for this. And I don't know. I don't understand it. And he read it and he said, well, I don't get it, Al. I don't get it either. I said, well, I can't do it then. Right. So I did. I turned it down.
[56:40]
Al Pacino
That's all right.
[56:41]
Johnny Depp
You know. What was the part?
[56:43]
Al Pacino
Han Solo.
[56:44]
Johnny Depp
It must have been.
[56:45]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, yeah.
[56:46]
Johnny Depp
Me giving. What's his name? Harrison Ford.
[56:48]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[56:48]
Johnny Depp
I gave him his career.
[56:49]
Al Pacino
Oh, yes.
[56:50]
Johnny Depp
The way I like to look at it, I certainly didn't. It's great.
[56:53]
Marc Maron
Oh, yeah.
[56:54]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[56:54]
Al Pacino
He is something, huh?
[56:55]
Johnny Depp
He is.
[56:56]
Al Pacino
But the interesting. The thing about the Godfather because, like, I've watched it several times recently because I was, you know, stuck in a trailer in Vancouver doing an Apple show, and I figured out how to Use the television and hook it up to the Netflix. And I was like, great. I should be studying my lines and doing other things. But I like. I go crazy in trailers.
[57:14]
Johnny Depp
I go crazy.
[57:15]
Al Pacino
I can't. It's just.
[57:17]
Johnny Depp
I couldn't do it either. It was when I got a TV installed on every trailer. I made films. Other than that, I'm not making films.
[57:24]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[57:25]
Al Pacino
Cuz it's hard, right?
[57:26]
Johnny Depp
Just sitting around and waiting.
[57:27]
Al Pacino
Yeah. Because at some point, no matter how many things you do, you get to a point like, what could they be doing?
[57:32]
Johnny Depp
Yes. What could they be doing?
[57:35]
Al Pacino
How long does it take to light that? They.
[57:37]
Johnny Depp
Yeah, it's just omnipresent. Yeah.
[57:42]
Al Pacino
So you see, so I'm watching the Godfather. What struck me about it was that last scene where you make a choice. You know, you're Michael in the last scene, the flashback of the party. So you would already experience the full arc of Michael.
[57:54]
Johnny Depp
Yes.
[57:55]
Al Pacino
But you chose to go, you almost droopy. Like the entire physicality of Michael in that moment. I mean, it was a hell of a choice. And then it adds so much. You see, back through that moment, whatever.
[58:10]
Johnny Depp
He became, he was sort of encased in stone. And what he's trying. What I thought was gonna happen is, how am I gonna go on doing this? It was beyond belief.
[58:22]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[58:23]
Johnny Depp
It was a tough ride for two for me, I had a hard time with it.
[58:27]
Al Pacino
But in one was tough too. Cause you didn't. You know, you get this job, Francis is bouncing off the walls, and you don't even know if you're gonna keep the job.
[58:34]
Johnny Depp
Francis called me when I was doing that Broadway play, Right. And he had seen it, and he called me and could say. And that was earlier than Godfather. It was before Godfather.
[58:49]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[58:49]
Johnny Depp
And I went out to San Francisco because he had written a great script about a college professor falls in love with his student. And it was mythical to the way he did it. And his whole life falls apart. And it was done so well. But they didn't want me, and they didn't want Francis. So a year later, he calls me a year later. And I got to know him. It was four or five days with him.
[59:15]
Al Pacino
Did they make that movie?
[59:16]
Johnny Depp
No. And then he calls me.
[59:20]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[59:20]
Johnny Depp
He says, hi. I said, francis, you know, the voice out of the past. I liked him a lot. I thought he was really intelligent. Anyway, he says. He says, yeah, I just want you to know I'm directing the Godfather. Then I thought for that brief second when somebody talks to you, I thought. I think maybe he's in trouble, you know, with his mind. You can't imagine, you know, Hollywood.
[59:47]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[59:48]
Johnny Depp
And Godfather is, like, so far away. It's not in the normal actors who are just trying to get through a day, you know, see what's going on to, to connect to those kind of movies, because we, we don't live in that domain.
[60:02]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[60:02]
Johnny Depp
We're not there. And then he says, ferdinand, I want you to play Michael. I thought, now he's. He's gone too far. He's. He's gone, too. And I just, I was humoring him, and I did start thinking, this guy is brilliant, though.
[60:21]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[60:21]
Johnny Depp
And I, I think I had seen one of the movies he made with Rip Torn.
[60:26]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[60:27]
Johnny Depp
Who. And it was great. Elizabeth Hart. It's wonderful film. You're a good boy now.
[60:33]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[60:34]
Johnny Depp
So anyway, I, I, I just was. Was stunned by it.
[60:38]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[60:39]
Johnny Depp
And I said, paramount smart, because they're picking this guy. He's an Italian American.
[60:43]
Al Pacino
And you knew the book.
[60:45]
Johnny Depp
I knew the book. I read the book. Of course.
[60:47]
Al Pacino
Yeah.
[60:47]
Johnny Depp
I did at the time. Everybody read it, and I didn't see myself as Michael at all. It was the last thing I. And I called Michael grandmother, who's the only part of my relatives left.
[60:58]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[60:58]
Johnny Depp
And she was living up in the, up in the Bronx.
[61:01]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[61:01]
Johnny Depp
And I said. And I said, grant, you know, I'm in. I'm in. I'm in. I'm. They want me to play the guy in the Godfather.
[61:10]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[61:10]
Johnny Depp
And, you know, she doesn't know from this, so I said, oh, that's good, Sonny. Good.
[61:15]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[61:15]
Johnny Depp
And I said, yeah. I just want you to know. Yeah. She calls me back in about an hour, and she says, godfather, Sonny. That's where your granddad was born, in Corleone.
[61:29]
Al Pacino
That's crazy. Crazy.
[61:33]
Johnny Depp
I didn't know where my grandfather came from.
[61:35]
Al Pacino
I didn't even know I knew my grandfather.
[61:37]
Johnny Depp
I loved him. He's with another reason I'm here. But I didn't know he was from. I knew he was from Sicily.
[61:44]
Al Pacino
But Corleone, they brought you up, right? Your grandfather.
[61:47]
Johnny Depp
Yeah, they did. Him and my grandmother and mother.
[61:50]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[61:50]
Al Pacino
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I didn't even know it was a real place.
[61:54]
Johnny Depp
Me neither. And this guy's Corleone. And my grandfather comes, A certain right. Came to me, you know, maybe I have the right to do it. This is not. This is. What do they call it?
[62:07]
Al Pacino
Kismet.
[62:08]
Johnny Depp
Kismet.
[62:09]
Diane Keaton
Yeah. Yeah.
[62:10]
Al Pacino
So. But, you know, it seemed like moving through the Godfather and a few of the other movies with. And This. I don't think you can. Something you can, you know, that happens anymore. But your conception of Michael, you know, was not working for the studio.
[62:27]
Johnny Depp
No.
[62:27]
Al Pacino
Or for Francis. And you knew, you know, you had a sensibility about yourself. What was the issue?
[62:36]
Johnny Depp
I think I, He. They weren't seeing something that they wanted to see. A certain kind of film charisma, I would imagine.
[62:45]
Diane Keaton
Yes.
[62:46]
Johnny Depp
I didn't know the area and I did Panic in Needle park, but I was into that part. I understood that. And I. I was trying. What I was trying to do is keep a low profile early on in the film.
[62:58]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[62:59]
Johnny Depp
Because I used to think all. I'd walk from 91st street and Broadway to the Village and back thinking about how am I going to make this transition to go from. So I. I made the kind of more mild mannered, not intrusive kind of character who's there, sees things, but knows not to go any further because he understands his family is, you know, he's not his family. He's not his family. And. And he slowly is there. But there's nothing set up to show that in the film. It's just my inner world.
[63:31]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[63:32]
Johnny Depp
And of course, they didn't like it. They didn't like what they saw. He calls me into the Gingerham. It was a great place.
[63:39]
Al Pacino
Francis does.
[63:40]
Johnny Depp
Francis is there with his wife and family sitting in the. There's a bar. It's a great place to go. A lot of people from Lincoln center would go. The musicians. I saw the great Bernstein.
[63:52]
Al Pacino
Oh, yeah.
[63:53]
Johnny Depp
Leonard.
[63:53]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[63:53]
Johnny Depp
Leonard Bernstein.
[63:54]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[63:55]
Johnny Depp
Anyway, I'm there. He calls me. So I come up to him standing.
[64:00]
Marc Maron
By the table with his family sitting there.
[64:02]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[64:02]
Johnny Depp
But he doesn't invite me to sit down. So I'm saying. He says, I want to talk to you. And I said, yeah. I sort of. Maybe. He says, you know, I put a lot into your ear. Because he did. He put everything. They were going to fire him. He was risking everything. And he did. And he saw me as this character. And you're an actor, you know, if a director really sees only you for a thing, you go with it.
[64:30]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[64:31]
Johnny Depp
You may not even feel comfortable, but you go with it.
[64:34]
Al Pacino
I don't trust it, but okay.
[64:35]
Johnny Depp
Yeah. Well, I. I sort of felt that. He's so smart.
[64:38]
Diane Keaton
Yeah. He's got.
[64:39]
Johnny Depp
He wants me. He's got enough, you know.
[64:41]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[64:42]
Johnny Depp
So naturally I look at the family. He says, al, go see the rushes. Go see the film we've shot so far. You'll get an idea what I'm talking about. He said, because, you know, you're on Tenderhooks here with his buddy.
[64:56]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[64:57]
Johnny Depp
You know. But I noticed he never asked me to sit down.
[65:00]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[65:00]
Johnny Depp
And everybody was eating.
[65:01]
Al Pacino
And so you were dismissed.
[65:02]
Johnny Depp
I sort of. Yeah, I was sort of dismissed.
[65:04]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[65:04]
Johnny Depp
I said, well, go see it. He wasn't rude or anything, but it was just uncomfortable.
[65:10]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[65:10]
Johnny Depp
And so I went and I went to the Paramount at that time, had that in the Circle, you know, the Circle Columbus.
[65:18]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[65:18]
Johnny Depp
I went up to the floor, they turned on the projection. I start looking at myself, and I thought it wasn't very interesting or anything I was doing, but these things cut together, you know? I mean, I thought. But I thought, I think that's the right track.
[65:35]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[65:35]
Johnny Depp
I thought, I want to surprise an audience. I want to come and turn into something. You know, they like that stuff. It's good, that transitional thing, you know. And I always felt it instinctively. I couldn't. I couldn't articulate it. That's the thing. So I went to Francis and I said, oh, yeah, I know what you mean. I said, totally. You've done that with directors. They come, give you a direction, and you say, oh, yeah, that's cool. That's cool.
[66:04]
Marc Maron
You're right.
[66:04]
Johnny Depp
I'll do that. You're right, you're right. I'm with you on it. In the early days, I couldn't tolerate it. If they came out tonight, there'd be a fight.
[66:13]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[66:14]
Al Pacino
But now you wanted that gig.
[66:15]
Johnny Depp
You wanted the gig.
[66:16]
Al Pacino
So did you change anything?
[66:18]
Johnny Depp
Didn't change a word. Didn't do a thing differently. Except Francis did. He was wise enough.
[66:24]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[66:25]
Johnny Depp
He moves the Salazo and the Sterling murder up front so they'll shoot it early, earlier.
[66:34]
Al Pacino
Okay.
[66:35]
Johnny Depp
He denies it. He denies that he did that.
[66:37]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[66:37]
Johnny Depp
So I think, oh, well, somebody did.
[66:39]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[66:40]
Johnny Depp
And I was there and I did that scene.
[66:43]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[66:43]
Johnny Depp
And they kept me. Yeah.
[66:45]
Al Pacino
Oh, good, good. The killer. That's. Well, that's the change. That's the transition from Michael, who didn't want to be part of it, to Michael, who's ending up over his head almost.
[66:55]
Johnny Depp
Of course.
[66:56]
Al Pacino
So they're like, oh, but his father's a killer. But, yeah, but, but, no, but the executive scene is like, look at that.
[67:02]
Johnny Depp
He can do it. Yeah. He just blew those guys. I mean, obviously I was sitting there, and all of a sudden my eyes started to go like.
[67:09]
Al Pacino
I thought when you come out of the bathroom. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[67:12]
Johnny Depp
I had no control. It was so frightening that I had to do that.
[67:16]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
[67:17]
Johnny Depp
And so then I come up and do it. And that got me the part when I ran out.
[67:22]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[67:22]
Johnny Depp
There was a cab there and I jumped on a cab.
[67:24]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[67:25]
Johnny Depp
And I fell. I fell off the cab. I missed it. There wasn't a stuntman. They didn't have. I didn't have a camper.
[67:32]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[67:33]
Johnny Depp
I stayed in that smoke filled 15 hour room.
[67:37]
Al Pacino
In the, in the restaurant.
[67:38]
Johnny Depp
In the restaurant with Sterling Hayden and Al Leterry. Little Al Leteria. The two of them were so. I loved those guys so much. But Sterling Hayden, yeah. Huge. I mean, huge star too. He's everything. And, and they're just talking to me and they so understood what was going on.
[67:57]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[67:57]
Johnny Depp
They understood that they wanted to get rid of me.
[67:59]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[68:00]
Johnny Depp
And they were just so nice, you know, actors.
[68:03]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[68:04]
Al Pacino
They're good.
[68:05]
Johnny Depp
They're good people.
[68:05]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[68:06]
Al Pacino
Yeah. So it worked.
[68:08]
Johnny Depp
And so it worked. And then I, when I fell, when I jumped into. And I fell on the floor, landed. I looked up at the sky and I thought, God, thank you. Yeah, thank you. Because I'm out of here now.
[68:21]
Al Pacino
You think you broke your foot? I thought I broke my ankle and.
[68:24]
Johnny Depp
I thought, I'm freedom, I'm freed from this. Because nobody wants to be around when they're not wanted. You know, you don't want to be there. Yeah, yeah.
[68:32]
Al Pacino
But no, they shot you up with cortisone and they got you working and walking. Yeah, but what was interesting to me is that, you know, the collaborative nature of it, that once you were in the part that, you know that moment. And he did it again in Scarface. Because you talk about it where, you know, you're going to, you know, if you don't see something as serving the story or you can't act through something because it's not correct, you're gonna make an issue of it.
[68:57]
Johnny Depp
That's right.
[68:58]
Al Pacino
And because of that you claim that you had a reputation, but it was not because you're nuts. No, it was because, well, I'm nuts.
[69:05]
Johnny Depp
You have to stay with that, please. Yeah, it is true too. But.
[69:11]
Al Pacino
Yeah, but that moment with Frank Tantangeli, they'd already shot him coming to the table in Tahoe, drunk a few times. Right. But he doesn't say anything. And then one time he says, you know, and you're. And they're wrapping the scene and he spills the wine.
[69:28]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[69:28]
Al Pacino
And they're wrapping the scene. You're like, michael's got to answer to. He's got to respond to that.
[69:33]
Johnny Depp
Yes, of course he does.
[69:35]
Al Pacino
Right. But they were Moving on.
[69:37]
Johnny Depp
I know. Well, they were finished for the night. We had ice in. We put the ice in our mouths because it was so cold.
[69:44]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[69:45]
Al Pacino
Oh, you wanted no steam.
[69:46]
Johnny Depp
Steam was coming out of the mouth. Supposed to be summer. So everybody was exhausted.
[69:51]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[69:51]
Johnny Depp
And I just said to Francis, we got to turn the camera around because Michael has to react to it.
[69:56]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[69:58]
Johnny Depp
And he just stared at me and he said, oh, okay.
[70:02]
Al Pacino
He knew you were right, though.
[70:03]
Johnny Depp
Yeah, he did. He knew I was right.
[70:05]
Al Pacino
So you got to get everywhere, come back in.
[70:08]
Johnny Depp
Everybody's got to come back. And all because he wants his close up redone.
[70:13]
Al Pacino
But it's a real moment.
[70:15]
Johnny Depp
Of course. You know, I had you go through that in films, you know, things get done after your stuff is done, and they're totally different.
[70:23]
Al Pacino
Right.
[70:24]
Johnny Depp
I felt that recently in Lear.
[70:26]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[70:26]
Johnny Depp
Yeah. And I said, boy, I have to go back and do a couple of things because this person did that, and that person. They didn't do that on my take. And it was big stuff. Right. Was changing.
[70:40]
Al Pacino
Right.
[70:41]
Johnny Depp
The very, you know, the nature of the core of the scene.
[70:45]
Al Pacino
Yeah, yeah. Because like that thing you did in Scarface. I mean, that, like, it's crazy. Wait, with the. With the.
[70:51]
Marc Maron
With the scene in the restaurant.
[70:53]
Johnny Depp
That's right.
[70:53]
Al Pacino
That bit for budgetary reasons where you like. Yeah. Take a good look at the bad guy. Yeah, Right. For budgetary reasons. They're going to do it at the club when you're wearing a Hawaiian shirt.
[71:01]
Johnny Depp
Doesn't make sense.
[71:02]
Al Pacino
It makes no sense. So you got to go to the mat with that and say, if he's down in tuxedo, what's the fucking point of the scene?
[71:09]
Johnny Depp
That's right.
[71:10]
Al Pacino
And then that. But that was a big hit, right?
[71:12]
Johnny Depp
Yeah, that went really down badly. But. But Marty and Frank and Brian de Palmer.
[71:19]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, they.
[71:21]
Al Pacino
They got it.
[71:21]
Johnny Depp
They got it.
[71:22]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[71:22]
Johnny Depp
They must have had it before. But.
[71:24]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[71:24]
Johnny Depp
Just because I'm gonna feel me out seeing what I was gonna see.
[71:27]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[71:28]
Johnny Depp
I said no way.
[71:30]
Al Pacino
And you weren't gonna work or what?
[71:32]
Johnny Depp
What was the line you were saying? Listen, let me talk to you guys.
[71:35]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[71:35]
Johnny Depp
And if you still feel the same way after I talked to. Sat there, talked for 45 minutes.
[71:40]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[71:40]
Johnny Depp
Because we blew the day. $200,000 that cost.
[71:44]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[71:45]
Johnny Depp
The. The heads of Universal.
[71:47]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[71:48]
Johnny Depp
They were like, this guy, this kid. Oh, my.
[71:51]
Al Pacino
Pacino is nothing but trouble.
[71:53]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[71:54]
Al Pacino
Oh, my God. And that string of movies. It's so funny in the book because you, like after you did Bobby Deerfield with Pollock, you thought it was Over.
[72:02]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[72:03]
Al Pacino
And that happened many times.
[72:05]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[72:05]
Al Pacino
But, you know, I.
[72:07]
Johnny Depp
You know, many times still happens. What's going on?
[72:10]
Al Pacino
Well, I mean, but it was, I think, a little different with the level of starness that was happening, that, you know that. The idea that you do one flop and it's over.
[72:20]
Johnny Depp
Yeah. But I guess I don't think they. Do you remember the scene where I. I think that I went to the Forest Lawn to those people that were there the Oscar night and started calling them and saying, I didn't go to the Oscars. Not because I thought I was cheated out of being the lead over Marlon Brando. No. I went.
[72:42]
Al Pacino
I didn't go because.
[72:43]
Johnny Depp
Because I had other feelings. And sometimes I was going through things, you know, and I was doing a play in Boston at the same time, and I was afraid. I felt so. I felt so out of place at the Oscars. But I was young still, and still those kind of things. I didn't realize you go to a thing like that.
[73:01]
Al Pacino
Suck it up.
[73:02]
Johnny Depp
Suck it up. Because this is what's happening.
[73:04]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[73:05]
Johnny Depp
And I ran from it. But that I would. Wouldn't go because I didn't get the lead with Brando. I mean, it's just. And that's what was in the air.
[73:15]
Al Pacino
For years, that you were this.
[73:18]
Johnny Depp
That I was a snob and I stuck up.
[73:20]
Al Pacino
And you were really just nervous and shy.
[73:24]
Johnny Depp
That's right.
[73:24]
Al Pacino
When I would go nuts for whatever reason.
[73:27]
Johnny Depp
Yeah. And I saw someone. I would go to the Oscars, and they were shocked.
[73:31]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[73:31]
Johnny Depp
When I went for Serpico.
[73:33]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[73:33]
Johnny Depp
They were shocked to see me there.
[73:35]
Al Pacino
But you had to medicate yourself to the point where you were nuts.
[73:38]
Johnny Depp
Oh, my God. I was nuts. Yeah. I was. I was drugging and drinking, and I was in a state of. Absolutely.
[73:44]
Al Pacino
And you didn't like to fly. There was all these other issues.
[73:47]
Johnny Depp
It goes on and on and on. I was with Diane and I ran out of jokes to tell her because she'd be laughing the first hour, but then there was two more hours to follow. I couldn't.
[73:57]
Al Pacino
What was that? But what did you say to Jeff Bridges?
[74:00]
Johnny Depp
I said to him. I turned to him. I didn't know him at the time, and, you know, he's a great actor, and he was there.
[74:06]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[74:07]
Johnny Depp
And also, he's a Hollywood guy, too. Sure.
[74:09]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[74:10]
Johnny Depp
I don't know why I'm saying to. And he looks at me. I said, I just was wondering what's going to happen. And not an hour is up and they're not getting to the best. And he looked at me. I mean, he looked at me as though I was in some. Who is this person? And he looked at me. He said, it's three hours. That was all he said. I said, oh, thank you. Three hours. I thought, I gotta sit here for two more hours, and I know for sure I'm gonna lose. And then I keep going and popping those Valium pills. And with Diane back and forth and days and Elizabeth Taylor comes out. We all are standing up.
[74:55]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[74:56]
Johnny Depp
And I'm sitting down. And then it dawns on me.
[75:01]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[75:03]
Johnny Depp
What if I win?
[75:08]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[75:08]
Johnny Depp
Yeah. What if I win?
[75:12]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[75:12]
Johnny Depp
I don't have a speech. I don't have anything, except I'm ossified.
[75:16]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[75:17]
Johnny Depp
How do I get to the stage? How do I go up the stairs? I'll fall down. Yeah. It's. All these things are going. I just said, you know how it happens, Al, when you're in these situations? They always go wrong. You know that. And you're going to win tonight. And have these two. The two sides of my brain going at it.
[75:36]
Al Pacino
And that was for Serpico.
[75:37]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[75:38]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[75:38]
Al Pacino
And when they called. They didn't call your name, Right?
[75:40]
Johnny Depp
Well, when they didn't, I was sitting there and I thought it was so utterly. My body was painting. I was in a panic. I didn't know what was going to happen.
[75:49]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[75:50]
Johnny Depp
And. And when I hear the name Jack Lemon.
[75:54]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[75:57]
Johnny Depp
I was paradise. I saw paradise. I breathed. Imagine the phony I must have looked like getting all so happy about Jack Lemmon.
[76:06]
Al Pacino
You're just happy it wasn't you.
[76:07]
Johnny Depp
I was just happy it wasn't you.
[76:09]
Al Pacino
The assumption is he's just pretending because he wanted to win. But you're like, thank God.
[76:14]
Johnny Depp
Oh, my God. Now, you tell that story and people think, what the hell's wrong with you? Oscar's everything. Of course it is. But I didn't.
[76:22]
Al Pacino
It wasn't.
[76:23]
Johnny Depp
You know how it is. You get to a point.
[76:25]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[76:25]
Johnny Depp
And I was at that point, because if you're not rolling around in the business.
[76:30]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[76:30]
Johnny Depp
As you know, you're not thinking about things like that.
[76:33]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[76:34]
Johnny Depp
And you can come off kind of snobby.
[76:36]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[76:37]
Johnny Depp
But I just didn't know that world that much. Oscar was fine. You know, But I got nominated. That's a big deal.
[76:43]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[76:44]
Johnny Depp
And I got. You know, people are coming to see me. I said, we didn't have.
[76:49]
Diane Keaton
When did you get.
[76:50]
Al Pacino
What was.
[76:50]
Marc Maron
When did you get one?
[76:52]
Johnny Depp
He got it when I got it. I was gonna say I got it when I didn't deserve it, as most of us do, you know, if you're around enough. And you think I was. I didn't get it.
[77:03]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[77:03]
Johnny Depp
Then I got it. For what? For A Scent of a Woman.
[77:06]
Marc Maron
Oh.
[77:08]
Johnny Depp
And I. And I really thought that that was. I thought, there's a chance.
[77:17]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[77:17]
Johnny Depp
You know, and I think I got up a little bit more into the world a little bit. I was playing the game a bit. I was in the game.
[77:26]
Al Pacino
Yeah.
[77:27]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[77:27]
Al Pacino
Well, it's so interesting to me because, like, you know, I did a screening of Dog Day. I screened it at the Arrow.
[77:34]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[77:35]
Al Pacino
Because, you know, they wanted that Podcasters, the criteria, American Cinema Tech reached out to some of us, said, you want to host tonight?
[77:43]
Johnny Depp
That's.
[77:44]
Al Pacino
You want to host tonight? What are the movies? I put dog day first. McCabe and Mrs. Miller.
[77:48]
Johnny Depp
Oh, I love that, too.
[77:49]
Al Pacino
Right. And in Paris, Texas, I think. And they're like, we got Dog Day. I'm like, holy shit. And to see that in a movie theater.
[77:56]
Johnny Depp
Yes.
[77:57]
Al Pacino
Oh, my God.
[77:58]
Johnny Depp
See what Sidney L. Does in that film on the outside. And it's all dialogue, too.
[78:04]
Al Pacino
And because how you say something.
[78:06]
Johnny Depp
And Johnny Cassatt.
[78:07]
Al Pacino
Oh, my God, you guys. But, you know, it's funny. I get a. I get a message on Instagram from a woman who was an assistant editor on that movie, and she said, I got a story. Do you know this story? Tell me her name. I make sure I get Nancy Cantor. Does that ring a bell? She's the assistant.
[78:24]
Johnny Depp
Diddy Allen.
[78:25]
Al Pacino
Didi Allen was the editor. This is her assistant. Right. And it was her job to get the first cut of the film to the screening room at the Gulf and Western building. And you hadn't seen it, and Gomet hadn't seen it. She's got the only cut, and she's taking it up there, and she's got the canisters, and she's hailing a cabin to get run over by a bus. So she thinks she's out, it's over. She wants to get on a plane and leave the country. And she brings these crushed canisters up to the theater, and the projectionist and her respool it.
[78:54]
Johnny Depp
Wow.
[78:55]
Al Pacino
So you guys could see it, and you had no idea. You were like, all right, we're going to watch the movie. And this woman's like, my life is on the line. Line here. Isn't that crazy? So I had to come up and tell that story. It was terrific.
[79:07]
Johnny Depp
That's great.
[79:08]
Al Pacino
But when you look back at that movie, because, like, I feel, you know, when you look at the you know, all the stuff like that was the rawest, most vulnerable thing that I. I'd ever seen. And I. In the context of all the roles you've had, do you feel that way about it?
[79:22]
Johnny Depp
Yes. Yes, I did. Sure.
[79:24]
Al Pacino
Because it's all. You're all out. You're all out there.
[79:27]
Johnny Depp
Yeah. Yeah.
[79:28]
Al Pacino
Oh, my God. In that moment, John, he's like, you remember when you said you're gonna shoot him?
[79:33]
Johnny Depp
Oh, my God. Yeah. Oh, my God. You. So the thing we picked, Johnny and I was. We just said, hey, look, we don't know each other that way.
[79:44]
Diane Keaton
Yeah. Yeah.
[79:45]
Johnny Depp
That was a key.
[79:46]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[79:47]
Johnny Depp
We not friends.
[79:48]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[79:49]
Johnny Depp
Me and Johnny were very close.
[79:50]
Diane Keaton
Yeah. Yeah.
[79:51]
Johnny Depp
You know, as the two characters. The two characters. We said, how about they don't know each other that well?
[79:58]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, right.
[79:59]
Johnny Depp
They did.
[79:59]
Al Pacino
Yeah.
[80:01]
Johnny Depp
They're finding out what. As it's going along.
[80:04]
Al Pacino
You know, what's interesting about that movie is how funny it is.
[80:06]
Johnny Depp
Yeah, it's funny. Yeah.
[80:08]
Al Pacino
You know, like, you know, and I. I'm sure Lumet knew that.
[80:11]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[80:11]
Al Pacino
That, you know, they, like. Right from the beginning, the guy was like, I can't do this. What do you want me to do with the gun? Right away, the guy's like, you know, I gotta go. And he like, what are you. It's a comedic character.
[80:21]
Johnny Depp
When Sidney Lament directs. He directs. He tells you where to go. So if you do what he says and you're doing what he said told you to do, you're robbing a bank. You don't know how you got there. But in a robbery, because he orchestrates it. That's the genius of him. And we had no scene for the end. And it was a phone call because they wanted. The place started with. When we read it, it was dressing as Marilyn Monroe and.
[80:52]
Al Pacino
All right. Well, with your.
[80:53]
Diane Keaton
Your. Your. Your.
[80:54]
Al Pacino
The.
[80:55]
Johnny Depp
And I said, that's not Sarandon's part. Yeah.
[80:57]
Marc Maron
He's going to make a scene that's.
[80:59]
Johnny Depp
Not the way in the dress.
[81:00]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[81:01]
Johnny Depp
So Sidney said to both of us, we had been in it long enough that we knew our characters and we were talking in a way.
[81:08]
Al Pacino
You and Sarandon.
[81:09]
Johnny Depp
Me and Sarandon.
[81:10]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[81:10]
Johnny Depp
He turns on a tape record recorder.
[81:12]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[81:12]
Johnny Depp
And he says, go.
[81:13]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[81:13]
Al Pacino
Oh.
[81:14]
Johnny Depp
We do three takes of that scene.
[81:17]
Al Pacino
But this scene where you're like, how.
[81:18]
Johnny Depp
You doing on the phone? We do three takes of it. He takes all three takes. He. He cuts him up and puts it into that scene, which was 14 minutes long.
[81:28]
Diane Keaton
Yeah. The.
[81:29]
Al Pacino
That phone call.
[81:30]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[81:30]
Al Pacino
It was like a beautiful thing.
[81:32]
Johnny Depp
Yeah. Yeah, it was amazing. He's. He's doing it on the floor of the bank we're in while we're shooting.
[81:39]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, editing it.
[81:40]
Johnny Depp
Editing it, putting it together.
[81:42]
Al Pacino
So originally it was scripted that. That Sarandon's character would, would come out and make a scene and address and. And you thought that was inappropriate to the character. It didn't really happen.
[81:51]
Johnny Depp
It didn't happen.
[81:52]
Al Pacino
And it was a spectacle.
[81:53]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[81:53]
Al Pacino
It would have diminished the integrity of this thing.
[81:55]
Johnny Depp
Exactly.
[81:56]
Al Pacino
And you said that.
[81:56]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[81:57]
Al Pacino
Again, you're like, you can't do this.
[81:59]
Johnny Depp
Yeah, I always, I, I can't get over it. I'm learning to just kick, keep my mouth shut, you know. But I've seen more things that I've, I've, you know, when I see the film that I regret I didn't speak up.
[82:14]
Al Pacino
Yeah, well, then it would have been.
[82:15]
Johnny Depp
Any better or not. I don't know that. But sometimes it didn't feel right.
[82:19]
Al Pacino
Right. Sometimes it'd be better. And I watched Cruising recently. I watched Injustice for All recently. I talked to Friedkin before he passed.
[82:27]
Johnny Depp
Uh huh. Yeah. He's a great director.
[82:29]
Al Pacino
It was something, huh? That movie was something like. I watched it and it held up. But, you know, it was an interesting thing because I know there was pushback from the gay community about the characterization of that community. But what was interesting with Friedkin's whatever his understanding of it was. So there was a moment in that movie and I liked the movie because I liked the ending and I liked that your character. I must have been something for the, for you to work with.
[82:52]
Johnny Depp
Like, you know, I was, I felt funny about it when I saw it.
[82:58]
Al Pacino
Yeah, no, there is something a little much because. Because you walk into that one bar and it's like, wow, what isn't going on in here? There's a guy in a harness.
[83:08]
Johnny Depp
There's a guy doing this, there's a guy doing that.
[83:10]
Al Pacino
Like, it's all here. Yeah, it was a little much, but I thought the character at the end was interesting where, you know, you don't know who you are.
[83:17]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[83:18]
Al Pacino
But, yeah, we talk a little bit about Scarface, but then like. And we won't stay here forever, but like, I'm glad you, you're patient with me.
[83:24]
Johnny Depp
I am very patient. It's great talking to you, you know.
[83:28]
Al Pacino
And justice for all. In the, in the book, your sense of it was not, you know, what it became. It's quite a great movie.
[83:35]
Johnny Depp
It is, it is a. It seems to work.
[83:39]
Marc Maron
Right.
[83:40]
Al Pacino
But you were surprised with people walking around the streets Going, you're out of. I'm out of order.
[83:45]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[83:45]
Al Pacino
They picked that up, like with Attica, the same thing.
[83:48]
Johnny Depp
You get these little, you know, Hanka came out. You read the book. You know how I say attica?
[83:53]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[83:53]
Johnny Depp
I'm about to go on. We're in the bank and they're calling outside. I gotta go on and talk to the cops. And with the big crowds, and as I'm going out, this great ad named Burt Harris.
[84:07]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[84:08]
Johnny Depp
Comes up to me and he grabs me. I'm going, says, hell, I made. I made Serpico with him. I've been, you know, I know him. And he just says, al. I said, yeah. He said, sciatica. Sciatica.
[84:21]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[84:21]
Johnny Depp
Because Attica was a big deal at that time, you know, they invaded the prison, they killed prisoners. And I said, say, Attica. He says, yes, go push with me. So I start. So I go out there, I'm out there a little while, all of a sudden I pick up the idea that something's going on. And I just say, attica. What about Attica? Remember Attica?
[84:41]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[84:41]
Johnny Depp
And all of the audience.
[84:42]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[84:43]
Johnny Depp
All the extras, hundreds of them, start screaming. Yeah. Sonica. And the whole thing starts going crazy. Oh, it was. That's the thing with film.
[84:52]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[84:52]
Johnny Depp
These are kinds of things you can do.
[84:55]
Al Pacino
And I'll tell you, you got the most I ever seen anybody get out of Charles. Ding. You know, when you're out there and you're doing that dance with him, you know, it's almost like a dance. He's like, no, no, no, no. Come here, Come here.
[85:05]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[85:06]
Al Pacino
Oh, my God.
[85:07]
Johnny Depp
And he. To understand Sidney. L rehearses.
[85:10]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[85:11]
Al Pacino
Oh, really?
[85:12]
Marc Maron
So you.
[85:12]
Johnny Depp
Three weeks, so big difference. We were cast.
[85:16]
Al Pacino
And that thing happened to you again with the Hoo Ha. You know, you said in the book that you prepare for Scent of a Woman.
[85:23]
Johnny Depp
That's right.
[85:23]
Al Pacino
And where that came from. Which is another one of those things where people going around saying, hoo ha. But you got it, because the Marine who was showing you how to assemble and disassemble.
[85:33]
Johnny Depp
Assemble and disassemble a.45 blind.
[85:36]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[85:37]
Johnny Depp
And when I would do it relatively right.
[85:40]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[85:40]
Johnny Depp
He would say, huh?
[85:42]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[85:43]
Johnny Depp
Like that.
[85:44]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[85:44]
Johnny Depp
I said, what is that? That's wonderful. He says, yeah. You know, we say it on the line.
[85:49]
Diane Keaton
Yeah. Yeah.
[85:50]
Johnny Depp
When the rifles go to the shoulder and everybody stands. Who?
[85:53]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[85:53]
Johnny Depp
I said, wow, that's going in. It's going in a lot. Yeah, it went in a lot. Yeah. I threw it in anytime I was in trouble. Get right out of it.
[86:07]
Al Pacino
But it was interesting, too, to me that, you know, after. After Revolution tanked, that you again, you felt like you were out of the game.
[86:15]
Johnny Depp
I just didn't want to do this anymore because I was. My reaction to what happened at Scarface was. I was like. I was surprised that it had that reaction. The audiences liked it. So it was. Took a while, though.
[86:31]
Al Pacino
And Warren Beatty told you, like. Yeah. You know, it could take a while.
[86:34]
Johnny Depp
That's right.
[86:34]
Al Pacino
And it was interesting because it wasn't until the. The black community locked in.
[86:38]
Johnny Depp
Exactly. Hip hop.
[86:40]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[86:40]
Johnny Depp
Just got. They understood it. They embraced it. The rappers.
[86:44]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[86:45]
Johnny Depp
And then the next thing you know, VHS is going out.
[86:47]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[86:48]
Johnny Depp
And. And more people are seeing it. Plus, they were on the records.
[86:52]
Diane Keaton
Yeah. Yeah.
[86:53]
Al Pacino
These rappers.
[86:55]
Johnny Depp
Yeah. I mean, it just. And then it just carried and it.
[86:59]
Al Pacino
Kept going and going.
[87:00]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[87:01]
Johnny Depp
They had a showing of it at the Arrow.
[87:02]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[87:03]
Al Pacino
Was it good?
[87:05]
Johnny Depp
Man, I couldn't believe it, I tell you. Bernard Rose, who's directing Lear. King Lear for me, he is there to interview me.
[87:14]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[87:15]
Johnny Depp
It's a good outfit.
[87:17]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[87:18]
Johnny Depp
And so I was shook up seeing it on a big screen.
[87:22]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[87:23]
Johnny Depp
And the reaction.
[87:24]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[87:24]
Johnny Depp
And what I was doing in that part. I don't know what the hell was the matter with me. What happened to me? What do you mean? I was so. I don't know. I've never been that committed to a role. I mean, I was there. I said, I am this guy. And I was living. I was in love then. I was with Kathleen Quinlan.
[87:43]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[87:43]
Johnny Depp
She and I were really. It was lifesaver for me every time. Coming home. So, you know, it's tough to be in a room with a lot of smoke and being. And a lot of blood on you all day for 12, 14 hours. You come home. And she would tell me about her day, which was so great. I just saved my life. Saved my life. I just listened to her about her day. I just.
[88:08]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[88:08]
Al Pacino
Thank God.
[88:09]
Johnny Depp
What happened to you?
[88:10]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[88:10]
Johnny Depp
You know, and I was in a. You know, I started coming home like that, doing Lear. I must say, maybe it's a good sign. I don't low. I would finish a day's work in the way we were doing.
[88:22]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[88:23]
Johnny Depp
Because we would do. We did lear now for 400 BC is supposed to be.
[88:27]
Diane Keaton
Yeah. Yeah.
[88:28]
Johnny Depp
So.
[88:29]
Al Pacino
So. And so you. But that the.
[88:30]
Johnny Depp
And I'd come home and I could not move.
[88:33]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[88:34]
Al Pacino
But like. But those scenes where you just, like at the end where you just, like, putting your nose right into the blow there, like the. Yayo. And like you were out of your mind.
[88:43]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[88:44]
Al Pacino
To play it that. Jacked up.
[88:45]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[88:46]
Al Pacino
Was coke ever your thing?
[88:48]
Johnny Depp
Never. I have to say it. Nobody believes me, so I'll say it anyway. It is the truth. I never had coke in my life.
[88:55]
Al Pacino
Oh, it's so good that you.
[88:56]
Johnny Depp
I was more about something that was going to depress this energy of mine.
[89:01]
Al Pacino
The nervous energy.
[89:02]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[89:03]
Johnny Depp
I needed the karma.
[89:05]
Al Pacino
It's interesting, the women in your life, though, because it seems like after, you know, you decided you were out, that, you know, Diane Keaton was like, you know, you got to do something.
[89:12]
Johnny Depp
What a. What a great person. What a great person. And that thing she did when I lost my. All my money twice. The first time was when I was with her and I decided I was quitting. And then I realized after four years, after a few years, I realized I had to get back because I didn't have money. And then that's that scene with the lawyer.
[89:41]
Diane Keaton
Yeah. Yeah.
[89:41]
Johnny Depp
The office, when she's talking to the lawyer and she says, you know who he is? He says, oh. She says, you know who he is, meaning me. And he says, yeah, I know who he is. You know who he is? Who do you think he is? Oh, you're going to tell me he's an actor, he's an artist, whatever. No, no. He's an idiot. And he's looking at me. I'm looking at him. She's got him up against the wall, and it's just. You're here to help him. He doesn't know this stuff.
[90:14]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[90:14]
Johnny Depp
It was beautiful.
[90:15]
Al Pacino
And that's when you got the accountant and the crooked accountant, or was that.
[90:20]
Johnny Depp
That was the first one.
[90:22]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[90:22]
Johnny Depp
Somebody put me into something. Whatever happens, I don't know. I had no idea. But when I had the kids and everything and a family and all that stuff starts, and then I'm making a fortune.
[90:35]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[90:35]
Johnny Depp
I was making them, you know. Then that scene where the accountant comes.
[90:39]
Al Pacino
Over and he says, you're good. How can you. Like, how can I have this much?
[90:43]
Johnny Depp
I have the same amount of money I had.
[90:45]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[90:45]
Johnny Depp
When I just spent 500 grand traveling around. I was out of my mind. The airplane. I said, what's going on? And then his right eyebrow just went just like it. Yeah. I said, I'm fucked.
[91:00]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[91:01]
Johnny Depp
I knew it. Next day, I went to a lawyer. I said, I think something's going on.
[91:05]
Diane Keaton
Yeah. Yeah.
[91:06]
Johnny Depp
And the lawyer was great. And he set me up with some guy in New York.
[91:10]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[91:11]
Johnny Depp
Who was accounting for the Rockefellers.
[91:14]
Diane Keaton
Yeah. Yeah.
[91:15]
Johnny Depp
And we met and talked, and then he met the guy, your guy. Next thing you know. Yeah. I quit. And he's. He's into FBI comes and gets.
[91:24]
Al Pacino
And they put him away for Ponzi scheme.
[91:27]
Johnny Depp
Seven years.
[91:28]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[91:29]
Al Pacino
Didn't help you.
[91:30]
Johnny Depp
No, not much, because he wasn't insured.
[91:33]
Al Pacino
But what's interesting in the turn, in terms of how you looked at your job, like, once you needed to support the family and you realized you were, you had to shift your perspective on what acting is.
[91:44]
Johnny Depp
That's right.
[91:45]
Al Pacino
And you had to say, like, all right, well, you know, I know how to do this. And now, unfortunately, I got to do for money.
[91:51]
Johnny Depp
Yes.
[91:51]
Marc Maron
And you did.
[91:52]
Johnny Depp
And I did.
[91:53]
Al Pacino
But you know this good stuff. Right. Dick Tracy had a good time.
[91:56]
Marc Maron
See, you love that.
[91:57]
Johnny Depp
I didn't know that yet. With Dick Tracy.
[91:59]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[91:59]
Johnny Depp
I still thought I had money.
[92:00]
Diane Keaton
No.
[92:01]
Johnny Depp
Oh.
[92:01]
Al Pacino
It wasn't what.
[92:02]
Johnny Depp
You know, there was Warren's film, which. You know, Warren is the greatest.
[92:07]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[92:07]
Al Pacino
Yeah.
[92:07]
Johnny Depp
He's the greatest.
[92:09]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[92:09]
Al Pacino
And I like that director in James. And then What? The Godfather 3. So. Oh, so this happened like, what, after.
[92:16]
Johnny Depp
After Sea of Love.
[92:20]
Al Pacino
Okay.
[92:20]
Johnny Depp
Sea of Love came out, was a huge hit.
[92:22]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[92:22]
Johnny Depp
That was the first thing I had done in four years.
[92:24]
Al Pacino
Oh, my God.
[92:25]
Johnny Depp
They didn't pay me at all for it. They paid me a couple, but I didn't get a back end.
[92:30]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[92:31]
Johnny Depp
Made a fortune.
[92:32]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[92:32]
Johnny Depp
And then I got into Godfather 3. Part of the reason, too, was I. I needed. I needed some money.
[92:40]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[92:41]
Al Pacino
Young kids.
[92:42]
Johnny Depp
And so Francis, too. I think he needed it.
[92:45]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[92:46]
Johnny Depp
I had one kid. I didn't have my own kids. I had one kid. I was thinking.
[92:50]
Al Pacino
What'd you think of three?
[92:52]
Johnny Depp
I don't think it got there. I think this new thing that Francis did with it where he. It starts. It's called the Death of Michael Corleone. It's a little different. When it first came, Bob Duvall was in it.
[93:12]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[93:13]
Johnny Depp
And he had some sort of problem.
[93:15]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[93:15]
Johnny Depp
And he left. And when he left, had to change the whole story because Michael goes to the Vatican.
[93:22]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[93:23]
Johnny Depp
Because his brother, Bobby Duval.
[93:27]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[93:27]
Johnny Depp
Has been killed.
[93:28]
Diane Keaton
To the Vatican.
[93:29]
Johnny Depp
And he's sussing it out.
[93:31]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[93:31]
Johnny Depp
And that's why he's there.
[93:32]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[93:33]
Johnny Depp
And he gets. Makes. Starts making deals at church. At. Entirely different.
[93:39]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[93:40]
Al Pacino
Then what happened?
[93:41]
Johnny Depp
What happens is they. He goes to church on a Sunday.
[93:44]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[93:45]
Johnny Depp
With his family.
[93:46]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[93:46]
Johnny Depp
He comes out and he's shot right outside the church.
[93:50]
Al Pacino
That's how it ends.
[93:51]
Johnny Depp
Yeah. He rolls down the stairs yeah. And Diane comes up to him, Keaton, and grabs him and pulls him, and he says, michael, Michael, Michael, are you dead? And Michael looks at her and says, no, and dies.
[94:08]
Al Pacino
But that didn't make the cut.
[94:10]
Johnny Depp
That didn't make the cut.
[94:11]
Al Pacino
But there was another thing from that movie where people started repeating. They keep pulling me back.
[94:15]
Johnny Depp
Oh, yeah, that's true. Yeah.
[94:17]
Al Pacino
You know, obviously, you can't. We can't get into everything. But he must have monumental heat. I watch that again because I interviewed Michael Mann.
[94:24]
Johnny Depp
Oh.
[94:25]
Al Pacino
And I've watched Heat a couple of times. What a great movie. But I wouldn't have known about the cocaine thing, you know?
[94:33]
Johnny Depp
I know.
[94:33]
Al Pacino
And, like, he cut that out. And you built the whole character around cocaine.
[94:37]
Johnny Depp
I did. A lot of people didn't know that, but I'm sure I knew. It took me 20 years before I could say anything about it.
[94:44]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[94:44]
Johnny Depp
But I don't think. I think there was a reason he had to doing it. This is a wired character I'm playing. Yeah, but he did chip cocaine.
[94:55]
Marc Maron
Right.
[94:55]
Johnny Depp
Not the real guy. That I don't know. Yeah, but your character I composed.
[94:59]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[94:59]
Johnny Depp
And there's a scene in the film when I'm going into the club. Why you actually see me do it?
[95:04]
Al Pacino
Yeah, he took it out.
[95:06]
Johnny Depp
Took it out.
[95:06]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[95:07]
Johnny Depp
And he had his reasons.
[95:08]
Al Pacino
I'm sure I wouldn't notice it. I mean, like, you know, I didn't. I wouldn't put it together till I read it. Yeah, but there's so many great movies. Like, you know, dude. You know, there's always the great movies. Like, I. I love Devil's Advocate.
[95:23]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[95:23]
Al Pacino
I love it.
[95:24]
Johnny Depp
A friend of mine did some of the. Did some of the writing in it for me.
[95:28]
Al Pacino
Yeah, but to see in the elevator with the woman, with the mother. Oh, my God. I mean, to play the devil. That's why I love that.
[95:35]
Johnny Depp
Yeah, I love that.
[95:38]
Al Pacino
And. But I think Brasco was another one where you really kind of, like, you had to do the work.
[95:43]
Johnny Depp
Well, you know, in a way, because sometimes I got accused of doing gangster films.
[95:47]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[95:48]
Johnny Depp
But look, I try to do. You can't compare Scarface to Michael Coriol.
[95:53]
Al Pacino
No.
[95:54]
Johnny Depp
Nor can you make that guy Lefty, who Jario compared to Carlito's Way.
[96:01]
Al Pacino
And Donnie Brasco.
[96:02]
Johnny Depp
And Donnie Brasco.
[96:02]
Diane Keaton
Yeah. Yeah.
[96:04]
Johnny Depp
They're different people.
[96:05]
Al Pacino
They're all different.
[96:05]
Johnny Depp
I said I would only do gangster if it was a different people.
[96:09]
Al Pacino
But Brasco was such a beautiful character. I mean, really just something else.
[96:17]
Johnny Depp
Director who directed Michael, he was really such A sweetheart.
[96:22]
Al Pacino
But just the. The humanity of that guy.
[96:24]
Marc Maron
Michael Newell.
[96:25]
Al Pacino
Mike Newell.
[96:25]
Johnny Depp
Michael Newell said this is a love story.
[96:28]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[96:29]
Johnny Depp
He reminded him of something.
[96:31]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[96:31]
Johnny Depp
The two of them. And you feel the connection between Johnny and I. Yeah.
[96:36]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[96:36]
Al Pacino
But that scene where you know you're going to be killed and you're putting your watch away.
[96:39]
Diane Keaton
Holy.
[96:41]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[96:43]
Al Pacino
How deep into it were you?
[96:46]
Johnny Depp
I just go there.
[96:49]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[96:50]
Johnny Depp
What would happen to me? What would I do?
[96:53]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[96:54]
Johnny Depp
And always it may not happen.
[96:57]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[96:58]
Johnny Depp
But what if it did?
[96:59]
Diane Keaton
Right.
[97:00]
Al Pacino
Well, that's interesting. I know I'm saying that a lot, but at the end of the book, you grew to be able to accept that.
[97:05]
Johnny Depp
Yes.
[97:05]
Al Pacino
Sometimes you get there and sometimes you don't. But you're good enough to know that maybe you're the only one that knows.
[97:10]
Johnny Depp
Yes, exactly. Right.
[97:12]
Al Pacino
You know, so if you're not happy with it, you just keep your mouth shut. And maybe people think it's.
[97:16]
Johnny Depp
But I was happy with that one.
[97:18]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[97:18]
Johnny Depp
And. And I was. But what I was saying really is the character himself doesn't know.
[97:25]
Al Pacino
Right.
[97:25]
Johnny Depp
Thinks it's going to happen. Isn't. Yeah, but it's going to happen.
[97:29]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[97:30]
Al Pacino
Right.
[97:31]
Johnny Depp
But it didn't happen that way in life. And it's a true story.
[97:34]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[97:35]
Al Pacino
But they had a.
[97:35]
Johnny Depp
They added this. The movies.
[97:37]
Al Pacino
And then again, like, you know, as we move towards the end, you know, where you start doing these, you know, the Paterno, the Phil Spector, you know, the Kevorkian. I mean, you know, you got into those guys.
[97:48]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[97:48]
Al Pacino
And you. But were those money gigs or did you like Levinson gigs?
[97:52]
Johnny Depp
Those were gigs. David Mamet did that. Spectre, which I like that movie.
[98:00]
Al Pacino
And Mamet did Glengarry. Glengaros, which you did a lot.
[98:03]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[98:03]
Al Pacino
A lot of different characters. And you talk about getting older and they, you know, being levine as opposed to the other guy.
[98:09]
Johnny Depp
Oh, yeah.
[98:10]
Al Pacino
And you just, like, get out of your mind.
[98:12]
Johnny Depp
I. I just said, wait a minute. Because Jack Lemmon is great.
[98:17]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[98:17]
Johnny Depp
Glengarry.
[98:18]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, yeah, sure.
[98:19]
Johnny Depp
It's a great performance.
[98:20]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[98:21]
Johnny Depp
And I remember, well, it's Mamet, so I'll do it.
[98:24]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[98:25]
Johnny Depp
And I went there. And I'm not a short work. How do you short rehearse Glengarry? You can't. The words before the words, even. So I had a hard time with that, learning and stuff. But time went on. I love the guys I work with. And then I did something that you'll understand at one point. I said, wow, I don't feel right about this speech. When I Went to a kids or so and I've been doing it and trying it and I said, I'm just going to say it in my own words.
[98:58]
Marc Maron
Uh huh.
[99:01]
Johnny Depp
So I start saying, this is with Mamet. I start saying in my own words what happened. Maybe some of his words were in it.
[99:07]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[99:08]
Johnny Depp
And I'm doing it and he comes with his wife and they come to the dressing room after and there he is and his wife and they're just excited about this character I've just played the improviser. I don't think he knew that I was improvising. Oh, thing. Isn't it a str. It's such a strange world.
[99:27]
Al Pacino
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[99:28]
Johnny Depp
You know, with, with the, with the, with the, with plays and theater and.
[99:32]
Al Pacino
Words and what about these movies that you directed? There was a string of stuff that came out in a box set.
[99:38]
Johnny Depp
Yeah. There's Chinese coffee. I, I got to a point where I wanted to preserve some of the films.
[99:44]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[99:44]
Johnny Depp
The stories I did on stage.
[99:46]
Diane Keaton
Right.
[99:46]
Johnny Depp
I wanted to put them in a little box.
[99:48]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[99:49]
Johnny Depp
To keep them in a legacy chart somewhere. Because they're things I liked. I was saying some, the writers I liked.
[99:56]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[99:57]
Johnny Depp
I, I, I, I liked Ira Lewis and what he was talking about the 80s and the, by the bygone era of the 60s where, where friendship and.
[100:06]
Al Pacino
And which show was that?
[100:08]
Johnny Depp
It was called Chinese Culture.
[100:09]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, yeah, it was.
[100:10]
Johnny Depp
I, I know. Beautiful.
[100:12]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[100:12]
Al Pacino
And the stigmatic.
[100:13]
Johnny Depp
And then there's local stigmatic, which my friend Heathcut Williams, who's gone now, had written, who was Pinta's protege. Pinta saw the film twice, brought it to London. He was a big fan of it. And I keep it undercover a little bit. I showed it to Elaine May at one point and I said, what do you think? And she said, wow, I think it's good, Al. It's good. But yeah, don't open it. Don't put it out there.
[100:47]
Al Pacino
Really.
[100:48]
Johnny Depp
She says, you don't, you don't know who you are. Oh. And you don't know how famous you are.
[100:53]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[100:54]
Johnny Depp
And I said, oh, okay. But things change. That was about 10, 15 years ago.
[101:01]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[101:02]
Al Pacino
And then the other one was the Oscar Wilde.
[101:04]
Johnny Depp
Then the Oscar Wild Salamis. Jennifer. Jessica. Jessica Chastain.
[101:08]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[101:08]
Johnny Depp
Who's in Lear with me.
[101:11]
Al Pacino
Oh, she's back.
[101:11]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[101:12]
Al Pacino
And she did.
[101:12]
Johnny Depp
Oh, Jessica's a big star now.
[101:14]
Al Pacino
I know you have interviews. She's amazing and amazing. You, you used her, you were in when she was very young, so I.
[101:22]
Johnny Depp
Sort of discovered her.
[101:23]
Al Pacino
Yeah.
[101:23]
Johnny Depp
She Always tells the world. I did.
[101:25]
Diane Keaton
Oh, yeah, yeah.
[101:26]
Johnny Depp
But she had. She'd be discovered by any. When you take a look at this girl.
[101:30]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[101:31]
Johnny Depp
My God.
[101:32]
Al Pacino
And then the Richard II and your mission to get people to understand Richard iii. Richard iii.
[101:38]
Johnny Depp
Yeah, I did. Looking for Richard.
[101:39]
Al Pacino
Looking for Richard ii.
[101:40]
Johnny Depp
I won the director's award.
[101:42]
Diane Keaton
There you go. Guild award.
[101:45]
Johnny Depp
I like to say that because there's a whole section in my book where I go to this party and here we're in Los Angeles. I still think we're in New York. We go to a big party, remember it? And I. And I'm talking, and none of the people have even heard of looking for.
[102:07]
Al Pacino
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's also where you learn that, why parties end at 10 in Hollywood.
[102:12]
Johnny Depp
Yeah. Oh, God, that's something.
[102:14]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[102:14]
Al Pacino
Because people, they're afraid they're gonna get drunk and say something to the wrong person.
[102:18]
Johnny Depp
There I was at one of those parties, I went to another one of them and some very well known actress is there and she's kind of toddling, she's weaving a little. I'm leaving. And there I see her. I say, hello, how are you doing? She says, I think I said the wrong thing.
[102:36]
Al Pacino
And she was upset to the wrong person.
[102:38]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, devastated.
[102:41]
Johnny Depp
Devastated. You know, I mean, she was. Said it out of drunkenness.
[102:46]
Al Pacino
Did she end up all right?
[102:48]
Johnny Depp
Yeah, she ended up fine.
[102:48]
Al Pacino
Okay, good.
[102:50]
Johnny Depp
I think I know. No, she did.
[102:51]
Diane Keaton
Yeah. Yeah.
[102:52]
Johnny Depp
When I think of it.
[102:52]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[102:53]
Johnny Depp
She was. Okay, so. But the thought. So, Right. What happens is suddenly superficiality just starts creeping in a little bit. You start saying things you. You know. And polite, really mean politeness takes over real talk.
[103:08]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[103:09]
Al Pacino
But this run that you've had with the Irishman and with House of Gucci went with Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. That's fun, right?
[103:15]
Johnny Depp
Yeah. Well, a lot of that is these people I know, like Leo and they're so great. And I did it with Tarantino was great because I knew him in life and then working with him was, you.
[103:28]
Al Pacino
Know, I interviewed him. Wasn't there something weird with your dad's.
[103:33]
Johnny Depp
Both our dads, yeah. I don't know if there was. I don't know about it. It might have been because my dad moved out here.
[103:41]
Al Pacino
Right. I think he teamed up with Tarantino's dad and.
[103:45]
Johnny Depp
No, that was another thing. Oh, there was the. All of a sudden they were the. I don't know what they call themselves. They had a video exercise.
[103:53]
Al Pacino
Pacino and Tarantino.
[103:55]
Johnny Depp
No, not Tarantino, Stallone. Oh, Hoffman. Dustin Hoffman. And Pacino.
[104:01]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[104:02]
Johnny Depp
Those three were on some exercise video.
[104:04]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[104:08]
Al Pacino
It didn't really get. It didn't, it didn't make it into your world.
[104:11]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[104:11]
Johnny Depp
Yeah. You know, I, I, I think happens. You just, Just take it.
[104:18]
Marc Maron
You just say, all right, so now.
[104:20]
Al Pacino
You'Re doing Lear, and it's exciting and you're working. You're.
[104:23]
Johnny Depp
Yeah. Just going to, you know, this thing. I'm working, am I? Yeah, I think I am. I just, I'm doing, you know, I've gotten almost six. Six films.
[104:32]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[104:32]
Johnny Depp
I've done.
[104:33]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[104:34]
Johnny Depp
They haven't been out yet.
[104:35]
Marc Maron
That's exciting.
[104:36]
Al Pacino
You got Baby.
[104:39]
Johnny Depp
I do. On top of everything. No, but these films have been hanging around a while, so I'm hoping that they'll get out. They'll get out.
[104:47]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[104:47]
Al Pacino
Yeah.
[104:47]
Johnny Depp
Because a couple of them are, you know, I think, okay. And others, you can't tell, but I've been taking smaller roles.
[104:55]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[104:55]
Johnny Depp
Except for this thing I did in Vegas with Vince Vaughn.
[105:00]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[105:01]
Johnny Depp
Absolutely great in it. Of a performance that he's quite capable.
[105:06]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, yeah.
[105:07]
Johnny Depp
He really is, but Sharp guy. I haven't seen it.
[105:10]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[105:11]
Johnny Depp
But I loved working with him.
[105:12]
Diane Keaton
Yeah. Yeah.
[105:13]
Johnny Depp
And the director, the, the director wrote the script.
[105:17]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[105:18]
Johnny Depp
It was great.
[105:19]
Al Pacino
Oh, good.
[105:19]
Johnny Depp
He did the. For the first True Detective. The first.
[105:24]
Al Pacino
Oh, that was great.
[105:24]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[105:25]
Al Pacino
I love that. I love that show.
[105:28]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[105:28]
Al Pacino
And then I know you talked about this a bit out in the world, but this experience you had with COVID and, you know, and dying for a minute.
[105:34]
Johnny Depp
How about that one?
[105:35]
Al Pacino
Yeah, it's a, It's a very.
[105:37]
Johnny Depp
Well, you know, I. I thought I died and I, I believed I died.
[105:41]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[105:42]
Johnny Depp
But I didn't. How could I have?
[105:44]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[105:44]
Johnny Depp
Because I, I was talking to the guy who was giving me. Feeding me intravenous.
[105:48]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[105:49]
Johnny Depp
No, I had. He didn't want me to dehydrate.
[105:52]
Al Pacino
Right.
[105:52]
Johnny Depp
So he had me on the fluids. Fluids.
[105:54]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[105:55]
Johnny Depp
So I'm getting the fluids and I, I liked him. This guy was really nice. And I forgot his name, you know, that happened some. Trying to think of his name. I wish I could call him by his name.
[106:05]
Marc Maron
He was a paramedic.
[106:07]
Johnny Depp
No, he was a work for. He was a nurse.
[106:09]
Al Pacino
Okay.
[106:09]
Johnny Depp
And he's from the Czech country.
[106:12]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[106:12]
Johnny Depp
And I wanted to talk to him and I was thinking about what his name was, and I, I was gone.
[106:17]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[106:17]
Johnny Depp
That was the last thing, Last thought.
[106:19]
Al Pacino
I had blacked out.
[106:20]
Johnny Depp
I was gone.
[106:21]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[106:22]
Johnny Depp
And the woman, that was the nurse there, said, he has no pulse.
[106:28]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[106:29]
Johnny Depp
And Michael, who you met was outside My Mike Quinn, my guy, and he just called ambulance and called the police. And I'm probably there. Who knows? When I open my eyes, there were five paramedics in my living room and two doctors with the whole. Everything. All of them, they looked like spacemen, like spacesuits.
[106:56]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[106:56]
Johnny Depp
Not that, you know, I was, you know, contaminated.
[106:59]
Diane Keaton
Yeah. Yeah.
[107:00]
Johnny Depp
And I'm looking at this and I look around and there's an ambulance outside the door.
[107:05]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[107:05]
Johnny Depp
Now from the time the nurse told Mike that I was. I had no pulse.
[107:12]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[107:13]
Johnny Depp
To what? By the time all of them got together and got dressed up.
[107:16]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[107:17]
Johnny Depp
Had to be, what, five minutes, right? I couldn't be out for five minutes. Yeah.
[107:20]
Al Pacino
You would have been brain damaged.
[107:21]
Johnny Depp
I would. Of course, yeah. Two minutes. One minute. I think I have a problem. I might have been out. I. But every time I was out, I probably had a very light pulse.
[107:32]
Diane Keaton
Yeah. But.
[107:33]
Al Pacino
But ultimately it got me thinking. Yeah.
[107:37]
Johnny Depp
You know, the thing we say is. And hamlets to me or not to me. No more. No more this life, no more. Now they got me all on the Internet saying that. I think I'm telling you, if the world is no afterlife, as if I've been there, you know? I mean, my God, you can't say anything. You say or now I never talk.
[107:59]
Al Pacino
See, it's so funny.
[108:01]
Diane Keaton
Yeah.
[108:01]
Al Pacino
Because he said he didn't see any white light. You didn't see nothing? No, nothing.
[108:04]
Johnny Depp
I didn't see anything.
[108:05]
Al Pacino
It was so funny because my buddy Bob Odenkirk, who had a heart attack and actually died on the table for a minute, you know, I texted with him and he says, you know, there's no white light. There's no nothing. Follow the money. Don't.
[108:20]
Johnny Depp
There's no white light.
[108:22]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[108:22]
Johnny Depp
I can't verify that.
[108:24]
Al Pacino
Okay.
[108:24]
Johnny Depp
Not sure.
[108:25]
Al Pacino
Good. So this is as far as I'm.
[108:26]
Johnny Depp
Concerned, when you faint sometimes.
[108:28]
Diane Keaton
Yeah, yeah.
[108:30]
Al Pacino
No, I had blacked out and I thought, like, well, if that's it, you don't wake up, you're not going to know the difference.
[108:34]
Johnny Depp
There it is. It's a candle.
[108:36]
Al Pacino
Yeah, well, I guess so We've slightly corrected it, the public discourse with this show.
[108:40]
Johnny Depp
Yeah.
[108:41]
Al Pacino
You know.
[108:41]
Johnny Depp
You know, I. I think I was okay. I think I was good. I like to dream. I dream every night so far. When I stop dreaming, I'll let you know.
[108:52]
Al Pacino
All right, thanks, Al. Great talking to you.
[108:54]
Johnny Depp
Oh, great talking to you. Thanks, baby.
[109:01]
Al Pacino
There you go. We actually.
[109:02]
Marc Maron
I turned the mics off. He said that's it.
[109:04]
Al Pacino
Yeah.
[109:04]
Marc Maron
I felt like you had to go somewhere. I'm like, no, we've done an hour and a half and I thought you might have to go somewhere. That book, Sonny Boy, the Memoir is available now. Hang out for a minute.
[109:17]
Al Pacino
Folks.
[109:18]
Marc Maron
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Because Progressive offers discounts for paying in full, owning a home, and more. Plus, you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it. So your dollar goes a long way. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance. That's progressive.com and here's some legal info. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations, folks. This week's bonus episode on the Full Marin is a very rare recording of a trip I took to the United Record Pressing Factory in Nashville back in 2013. The super chunk fluorescent orange record coming off of Pressure. I love that. It feels like real manufacturing being done by real people. Because it is in America. It's rare American manufacturing.
[110:24]
Al Pacino
Great.
[110:25]
Marc Maron
That's unbelievable.
[110:25]
Al Pacino
I feel like it's a bakery.
[110:27]
Marc Maron
I feel like I'm witnessing the baking of something. Something amazing. They're the records. They're beautiful.
[110:35]
Johnny Depp
Yep.
[110:36]
Marc Maron
You could go right to turntable.
[110:38]
Johnny Depp
I get to listen to them in.
[110:40]
Marc Maron
My office when they're fresh. Still hot. You can listen to that episode and all our bonus material by signing up for the Full Marin. To subscribe, go to the link in the episode description or go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF. Plus next week we have director Robert Zemeckis on Monday and country star Keith Urban on Thursday. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by acast. I gotta give you some guitar from the Vault because it's just too early here to kick out the jams.
[111:33]
Johnny Depp
Sa Sa.
[112:39]
Marc Maron
Boomer Lives Monkey Lafonda Cat Angels Everywhere.