Episode 1584 - Robert Zemeckis - WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Summary4 min read

WTF with Marc Maron Podcast Episode 1584 - Robert Zemeckis Release Date: October 21, 2024

Introduction and Initial Reactions

Marc Maron welcomes Robert Zemeckis, the acclaimed director behind iconic films such as Back to the Future, Forrest Gump, Who Framed Roger Rabbit, and Cast Away. Marc shares his enthusiasm for Zemeckis's latest film, Here, praising its innovative approach to time manipulation in cinema.

Marc Maron [00:02:30]: "His new movie with Tom Hanks and Robin Wright is called Here and I saw it. It's very interesting. There's a device to it that works and it's like nothing I've seen before in terms of dealing with time cinematically."

Rewatching Classic Films

Marc discusses his recent rewatch of Who Framed Roger Rabbit, highlighting its enduring charm and impressive special effects that have stood the test of time. He commends Zemeckis for creating a film that seamlessly blends live-action with animation.

Marc Maron [00:05:20]: "It's just a great movie. And the whole template is there for how he thinks about things. But even the effects hold up because they're simple and the actors played so beautifully with the cartoon."

Robert Zemeckis echoes these sentiments, emphasizing the seamless integration of live actors with animated characters and praising the late Bob Hoskins's performance.

Robert Zemeckis [00:13:20]: "And Bob Hoskins is a marvel. He just nails it every time."

Journey into Filmmaking

Zemeckis shares his early passion for movies, tracing it back to childhood experiences watching classics like Psycho and The Blob. His fascination with the magic of filmmaking drove him to create Super 8 films during high school and eventually led him to USC Film School.

Robert Zemeckis [00:27:00]: "I remember the first movie I ever saw was The Blob. That was when I realized something special was happening in the world of cinema."

Influential Experiences at USC

At USC, Zemeckis recounts attending screenings of Steven Spielberg's early works, such as Duel and Sugarland Express. These experiences inspired him and forged a lasting mentorship with Spielberg, who later played a pivotal role in Zemeckis's career.

Robert Zemeckis [00:43:17]: "After watching Duel and Sugarland Express, Spielberg became my hero. Meeting him and sharing my student films was a turning point."

Collaboration with Bob Gale and Breakthrough Projects

Zemeckis discusses his collaboration with Bob Gale, with whom he co-wrote Back to the Future. Their script initially faced multiple rejections, but with Spielberg's support, it eventually gained traction and became a monumental success. He highlights the importance of perseverance and creative storytelling.

Robert Zemeckis [00:46:13]: "We pitched Back to the Future multiple times before it finally got the green light. It was a testament to believing in our vision."

Embracing Technology in Filmmaking

A significant portion of the conversation delves into Zemeckis's relentless pursuit of technological advancements in cinema. From pioneering performance capture in The Polar Express to exploring flawless digital makeup, Zemeckis views technology as a tool to enhance human storytelling rather than replace it.

Robert Zemeckis [00:57:54]: "I love using every tool in the toolbox. If technology can help tell a better story, I'm all for it."

Views on Artificial Intelligence and the Human Element

Zemeckis addresses the growing concerns surrounding AI in filmmaking. He acknowledges the fears but remains optimistic, likening the evolution of technology to past innovations like electricity and steam trains. He stresses the irreplaceable value of human creativity and emotion in storytelling.

Robert Zemeckis [00:18:38]: "Every new technology is instantly feared, but it's about how we use it. The human element is something AI can't replicate."

Relationship with Actors: Tom Hanks and Robin Wright

The director praises Tom Hanks and Robin Wright, emphasizing their deep understanding of the cinematic medium and their collaborative spirit on set. Zemeckis appreciates Hanks's ability to balance comedic and dramatic roles effortlessly.

Robert Zemeckis [00:62:49]: "Tom completely understands the medium he's working in. He's so generous and always brings brilliant ideas to improve everything."

Challenges in Modern Filmmaking and the Future

Zemeckis reflects on the current state of the film industry, noting the fragmentation of the market and the rise of streaming services. He expresses uncertainty about the future but remains hopeful about the potential for innovative storytelling.

Robert Zemeckis [00:73:45]: "Nobody's making anything. The market is so fragmented, and it's hard to figure out what to create next."

Final Thoughts and Upcoming Projects

As the conversation wraps up, Zemeckis shares his appreciation for classic cinema and his commitment to pushing the boundaries of storytelling through technology. He hints at future projects but remains non-committal, focusing instead on the evolving landscape of filmmaking.

Robert Zemeckis [00:75:05]: "Making Here was a miracle. I hope people see it and appreciate the effort behind it."

Notable Quotes

Marc Maron [00:02:30]: "His new movie with Tom Hanks and Robin Wright is called Here and I saw it. It's very interesting."
Robert Zemeckis [00:13:20]: "And Bob Hoskins is a marvel. He just nails it every time."
Robert Zemeckis [00:27:00]: "I remember the first movie I ever saw was The Blob. That was when I realized something special was happening in the world of cinema."
Robert Zemeckis [00:57:54]: "I love using every tool in the toolbox. If technology can help tell a better story, I'm all for it."
Robert Zemeckis [00:73:45]: "Nobody's making anything. The market is so fragmented, and it's hard to figure out what to create next."

Conclusion

In this insightful episode, Robert Zemeckis opens up about his illustrious career, the behind-the-scenes challenges of filmmaking, and his vision for the future of cinema. Marc Maron's engaging interview style brings to light the dedication and passion that drive Zemeckis to continuously innovate and inspire in the world of film.

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Transcript695 lines

[00:01]
Marc Maron
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Go to squarespace.com wtf for a free trial, and when you're ready to launch, use offer code WTF to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com WTF offer code WTF okay, okay, okay. Lock the gates. All right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck, buddies? What the fuck? N. How's everyone holding up here? In the final stages of civilization and occupancy of the planet Earth. How's it going for you? Are you staying busy? Are you staying busy in these trying times with worry and panic and some. Maybe some, you know, tanning? I don't know what you're doing. Are you scrolling right now? Are you on the treadmill? Have you given up on that? Are you just eating whatever the fuck you want? Because today it doesn't matter anymore. It just doesn't matter. If I wake up tomorrow, I can start over again with what I'm supposed to be doing. But today. Today I feed the whole. Today I feed the whole. Where are those T shirts, huh? It's only a couple kinds of people in the world. There's fuck you people. And there's, um, fucked people. Sadly, that means everybody's kind of. But, you know, the. You people seem to have the upper hand because they don't give a shit morally or empathetically or. Or spiritually, you know. So today on the show, my friends, Robert Zemeckis is here. He's the director of the Back to the Future movies, Forrest Gump, who Framed Roger Rabbit, Castaway Flight Lots more used cars. Yeah, go see how that one holds up. His new movie with Tom Hanks and Robin Wright is called Here and I saw it. It's very interesting. There's a device to it that works and it's like nothing I've seen before in terms of dealing with time cinematically. He's kind of a risk taker in terms of. I don't know if it's a risk taking thing, but he enjoys and embraces the possibilities of technology to tell a human story. And I walked into that movie not expecting it to open with the dinosaurs. Yeah, literally opens with the dinosaurs and moves right up into the present day all on the same piece of property without moving the camera. What do you. What do you think of that? And also, you know, I watched Roger Rabbit, you know, when I was preparing to talk to Robert, I was watching, you know, Roger Rabbit, and I don't think I'd seen it since it came out. And I gotta be honest, man, it's a fucking great movie. It's just a great movie. And the whole template is there for how he, you know, thinks about things. But even, even the effects hold up because they're simple and the actors played so beautifully with the cartoon. I can't. It's. I don't even. It doesn't even feel like me saying this. But you should rewatch that if you just want some entertainment with a lot of heart, you know, watch Roger Rabbit. I mean, outside of the device, Bob Hoskins is fucking a marvel. I don't know how much time you spend appreciating Bob Hoskins, but I would say it's time to start. And I would go right from Roger Rabbit to, like, Long Good Friday. Get the full spectrum of the Hoskins. I wish I'd talked to that guy. I'll be at Dynasty Typewriter in Los Angeles on Saturday, October 26th. The rest of my tour dates are scheduled for next year. You can go to wtfpod.com tour to see all of them. Hey, are you using all the subscriptions you signed up for right now? Are you. Here's a better question. Do you even know how many subscriptions you have? Do you? Don't worry, you're not alone. More than 74% of people have subscriptions they've forgotten about. I used to be one of those people. But with Rocket Money, I don't have to remember every subscription or worry about forgetting any, because I can see them all laid out right in front of me. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps Find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions monitors your spending and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. See all of your subscriptions in one place and know exactly where your money is going. And if you don't want any of those subscriptions anymore, Rocket Money can help you cancel them with a few taps. You can also easily create a personalized budget with custom categories to help you keep your spending on track. Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when using all of the app's features. Stop wasting money on things you don't use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to RocketMoney.com that's Rocket Money.com WTF? I had a major breakthrough on set last week, if anyone cares. And I can't really go into it, but eventually I will be able to. But I did a scene with a movie star, one of the great actresses, and I got to a place I've never gotten before and now I can never go back. I'm a changed man because of the work I did with this woman. Changed man emotionally, creatively, in every other way. I went and did comedy the other night after I did these two fucking scenes last week that kind of took me to a place that I never thought I could get to. And already it's had an amazing impact on just my standup. I can't even explain it right now, but hopefully I'll be able to. But boy, man, we did something and I, I can never go back now. I just got to a place and I'd rather save the story for when I can really tell it to you because it was pretty powerful and it's going well. I'm tired, there's a lot of work and I just want you to know, look, you guys, I'm trying to put the pieces together. I understand now a bit more about how the fascism is going to work. Look, if this election goes one way, it's going to be fucking terrible beyond any we anything we can imagine. That's one outcome. The other outcome, it's going to be manageable and probably a bit hopeful just in terms of holding back the tide of hateful monsters. And here's the thing about, you know, the way what's happened, like especially in show business now, you see whatever's happening with certain players in this game, the idea of comedians being important voices in, in culture, like the comedian, the idea was that, you know, you get a comedian that can speak truth to power in a certain way and, you know, or just be dirty and filthy and funny, whatever the fact. But the thing is, is the way it's panning out now in terms of how comedians are important and whether they know it or not, some of them, yeah, everybody wants to make money, everybody wants to be famous. Yeah, I don't. I think I'm famous enough, whatever that is, and it's barely famous, which is fine, I can have a life. But there are people that want all the money and all the fame and show businesses collapsing. So now you have these in terms of, you know, the right or the sort of shameless, thinly veiled fascist future possible. You now have ideologically aligned, self producing content creators with huge audiences. And they, you know, can do their thing and you know, be like, you know, hey, fuck woke, you know, fuck censorship, Fuck, you know what I mean? Like, whatever it is, it doesn't matter. But it's tribal leadership. You're not speaking truth to power, really. You're just steamrolling smaller voices. But the bigger issue is that when those self producing content creators align themselves because they're desired by platforms with huge audience, even bigger audience, global audiences, who because of the nature of show business are just looking to save money to, you know, manage their bottom line. So you got a self promoting, you know, popular person, like, we'll just put them on our thing, which makes them the larger platform, ideologically aligned with whatever this fucking right wing fascist bullshit is. And then you may not be able to read it or hear it in the material, but you know, break it down, look at the talking points, look at what everyone's talking about the same shit. So once you have that in place, the larger platforms, global platforms, platforms that have investors are now just sort of like trying to make their investors happy by protecting the bottom line and giving voice to the worst of them. Which puts that voice out there in a bigger way, but also maintains that audience, that tribe, that cult. And so what happens is with that agenda that's sympathetic to the new fascism, you've got a lot in place there. Old show business doesn't matter. Interesting artistic stuff doesn't matter. Critics don't matter. Keep the people watching, keep them locked in, Shift the narrative, shift the story just to keep people locked in. If people want fury and, you know, regurgitation of bullying garbage, insensitive talking points, fucking give it to them. Fucking give it to them. And that's how the entertainment structure gets consumed by fascist thought. Big corporations with a lot of money invested are very fascist friendly. As long as they can keep being the ones that make the money. And I don't give a fuck. What's that? What is entertainment? Let's just fuck their brains into mush, into sort of just, you know, dopamine craving little sponges. Let's do that. That'll work. But this guy, Robert Zemeckis is a very, very amazing film director. He's done a lot of great films and he's also a guy that likes to entertain people. And he's a guy that likes to, you know, take chances and do new stuff. I mean, you can see that by his whole catalog. The movie that I went to see, that I told you about earlier, that's coming out in theaters on Friday, November 1, is called here with Tom Hanks. And it's got a very interesting conceit to it. And I always like talking to directors because you get, you really do get the full picture. This is me talking to Robert Zemeckis. Life is busy, people. And if you're like me, no matter how busy you get, you've got to get your fitness in. Peloton has a variety of challenging classes and programs that fit into your schedule. Whether you're a new parent or traveling for the holiday or training for something big or just busy like everyone else. From four week strength building classes to running, cycling and everything in between, Peloton can adapt to any goal and need during your busiest time. Find your push, find your power with peloton@1peloton.com so you know what I did last night, which I hadn't done? I can't remember. I watched Roger Rabbit last night.
[13:20]
Robert Zemeckis
Oh, you did?
[13:21]
Marc Maron
I did. And it's kind of amazing how well it holds up. That's good to know everything about it.
[13:29]
Robert Zemeckis
That's pretty cool. Yeah.
[13:32]
Marc Maron
Do you have memories of that?
[13:34]
Robert Zemeckis
Oh, yeah. I mean, it was like, it was an adventure.
[13:38]
Marc Maron
Yeah. I mean, and Hoskins is so good.
[13:42]
Robert Zemeckis
He's great.
[13:43]
Marc Maron
It's unbelievable.
[13:44]
Robert Zemeckis
He's a great actor.
[13:45]
Marc Maron
Oh, of course he's a great actor. But like, even the technology of it all, it's all still seamless. It's not, you know, it doesn't like look like something like, oh, well, you know, they perfected that finally.
[13:56]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah. And the thing that's great about Bob, well, unfortunately he passed away. But what's great about is he was amazing because he's just a completely, you know, he would come on the studies, you know, and he, you know, the first thing he'd say is, are we filming or fucking about? And you what is that? Are we filming or fucking about? And he'd say, what's the verbal? And he'd walk over to the script supervisor, scan the page, say, okay, I'm ready.
[14:20]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[14:22]
Robert Zemeckis
And I don't think he read the scene since he read the script the first time. And he would just step up there and just nail it.
[14:27]
Marc Maron
So that's how he did it. Like he would just put it into his head right before.
[14:30]
Robert Zemeckis
Right before. And it just hit it perfectly.
[14:34]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[14:34]
Robert Zemeckis
And. Yeah.
[14:35]
Marc Maron
Wow. I mean, it's. What's your experience?
[14:38]
Robert Zemeckis
Well, from an acting point of view, you'll appreciate this because here's the reason that the illusion really works in that movie.
[14:47]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[14:48]
Robert Zemeckis
Is because the live action actors are acting for both.
[14:52]
Marc Maron
Right.
[14:53]
Robert Zemeckis
They're believing that the rabbit is there.
[14:55]
Marc Maron
Right.
[14:55]
Robert Zemeckis
Certainly in the case of Bob, he played it.
[14:58]
Marc Maron
He was really engaging with that rabbit. What was in its place during a piece of tape. Come on.
[15:05]
Robert Zemeckis
No. Well, those were the old days. We didn't have computers, you know, we had to have like just a little. The smallest little target where to look. And you had to look at a target.
[15:14]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[15:14]
Robert Zemeckis
Because if you looked at something that was out of frame.
[15:17]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[15:17]
Robert Zemeckis
You would. It would look like you were looking through the other actor.
[15:21]
Marc Maron
Right.
[15:21]
Robert Zemeckis
Which is a performance thing. So you have to actually focus your eyes exactly where the cartoon character was going to be to make the illusion true.
[15:30]
Marc Maron
Well, out of curiosity, when working with actors, and this is not, you know, this is sort of an off road question, do you find that most of them sort of load up right before the scene? Like they kind of do their line work the night before or what have you, or have sides on the set and stuff like, Tom, how's Hanks work?
[15:47]
Robert Zemeckis
No, I don't know. Tom is. I don't know. Cause I never ask actors about their process ever. But I'll tell you what I see. Tom will be on his mark finishing a joke with a crew member, another cast member, and they're rolling the camera and you know, they mark the shot and he would finish the punch line and I would say, action. And he would do the scene.
[16:13]
Marc Maron
No kidding. So I wonder if that's his way of getting into the present.
[16:16]
Robert Zemeckis
Could be. Could be kind of like a, you know, kind of like just kind of a. Some kind of a, you know.
[16:23]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[16:23]
Robert Zemeckis
Not some kind of a verbal Zen thing or something. I don't know.
[16:27]
Marc Maron
So here's what I thought of like moments before you came here in terms of what seems to be a through line, even up to this new movie. But there's something about time travel and you. Because it seems like there was a perfecting of time travel that in this movie, there's some sort of. In the movie here, it's almost like an organic approach to moving through epochs, literally thousands of years, in a way that is smooth. I mean, you know, with Back to the Future, it's actually a time travel movie.
[17:06]
Robert Zemeckis
Right.
[17:06]
Marc Maron
And with. With Gump, you're inserting a guy into actual history through images.
[17:12]
Robert Zemeckis
Right.
[17:13]
Marc Maron
But I mean, is that something you think about?
[17:16]
Robert Zemeckis
I don't think about. I don't think about. Well, listen, now that I've made a bunch of movies, I think that I think about this time travel thing, and here's what I think might be the reason. I don't really know is nothing does it better than movies.
[17:30]
Marc Maron
Sure.
[17:31]
Robert Zemeckis
I mean, and movies are actually time shifting art form.
[17:36]
Marc Maron
Yep.
[17:36]
Robert Zemeckis
You know, I mean, films going. Well, the old days, film was going through a gate or like, what we're doing now is a cursor moving across a timeline.
[17:43]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[17:44]
Robert Zemeckis
And that's what you call it. It's the timeline.
[17:46]
Marc Maron
Right, sure.
[17:47]
Robert Zemeckis
And so that might have something to do with it, but I just, you know, I just fell in love with the book here, the graphic novel.
[17:56]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[17:56]
Robert Zemeckis
And just immediately saw the movie. Saw the movie that I made. You know, I just saw it, and.
[18:03]
Marc Maron
I, you know, I. When I watched it, I didn't know it was from a graphic novel. But the way the technology works, it's pretty clear you're honoring, with the squares, the panels. The panels, that you're honoring a graphic novel format.
[18:17]
Robert Zemeckis
Exactly.
[18:18]
Marc Maron
But do you think, like, now, with all this discussion about AI and everything and about technology in general, seeing that, you know, you were at the cutting edge of all this cinema technology? I mean, you obviously don't think it's a threat to anything, and it's obviously an amazing tool, but are you concerned about the human element?
[18:39]
Robert Zemeckis
Well, look, I mean, I think. Okay, I'll go into my whole feeling about it. I mean, my feeling about it is, first of all, every new technology is instantly feared.
[18:48]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Yeah.
[18:49]
Robert Zemeckis
So that's that. We know. I mean, people were terrified of electricity. They were terrified of steam trains going faster than 30 miles an hour. You know, they thought the human body couldn't. Couldn't. You know, it would be bad for your health to travel that fast.
[19:06]
Marc Maron
Faster than 30 miles an hour.
[19:08]
Robert Zemeckis
30 miles an hour, Right. Yeah. Yeah. So we're gonna get. We'll get through that. But. Yeah, but I think that it certainly can be misused I mean, we're gonna see it big time in this election. And then on the other side, I read things where I said, well, this could cure cancer.
[19:27]
Marc Maron
Sure. But like, you know, something that's directly, you know, screwing with your mind. It turns out that the mind is a lot more fragile than anything else.
[19:35]
Robert Zemeckis
Oh, yeah, completely. Well, the way I look at what I do, though, I don't really. I mean, I don't use. I don't even like using the word for what I do.
[19:43]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[19:44]
Robert Zemeckis
You know, AI Because I'm just making. I'm just making images for movies.
[19:48]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[19:49]
Robert Zemeckis
So for what I use it for, it's really fast computing.
[19:54]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[19:55]
Robert Zemeckis
And it creates now, I think, you know, flawless digital makeup.
[20:02]
Marc Maron
Right. Okay. And you. Because, like there is in this movie, in here. I mean, it's a movie. It's a human movie.
[20:09]
Robert Zemeckis
I mean, 100%.
[20:10]
Marc Maron
And, you know, the heart of the humanity of the thing has to be at the forefront. It's what's driving the whole thing.
[20:17]
Robert Zemeckis
Exactly. And the other thing that it has. The other thing that. The other thing that makes it all work are the performances.
[20:25]
Marc Maron
Yes.
[20:25]
Robert Zemeckis
I mean, it's just like, it's no different than putting old age prosthetics on a great actor and having him do a magnificent old age performance when he's middle aged. So Tom and Robin and Kelly, I mean, Paul, they all said, okay, we know what we have to do here. We have to approach this like we were doing another age and we're going to be young.
[20:52]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[20:53]
Robert Zemeckis
So the other way I can look at it is music.
[20:55]
Marc Maron
Right.
[20:56]
Robert Zemeckis
All right.
[20:57]
Marc Maron
You've been working with the same guy a long time, right?
[20:58]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah, but no, I was going to say about the, about the synthetic creation of music.
[21:03]
Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[21:03]
Robert Zemeckis
It's to a point now where it can be done flawlessly.
[21:06]
Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah. But. Well, that's the big question. Do you want flawless? I mean, it's all relative to the technology. Like, I'd rather listen to somebody. Like I'll listen to music from the 70s, you know, over overly produced or things that don't even sound human anymore. But that just might be my age or my preference.
[21:24]
Robert Zemeckis
Well, I think it's another. It's. It's. It's another. What I was getting at is even though we have these tools.
[21:31]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[21:31]
Robert Zemeckis
There's still. We still need musicians.
[21:33]
Marc Maron
Sure.
[21:34]
Robert Zemeckis
That's, that's what I'm getting at. So I think, I think the big fear with AI is, oh, my God, we're going to replace all actors.
[21:40]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[21:41]
Robert Zemeckis
Well, not really sure you're going to. It's like saying we're going to replace all, you know, musicians.
[21:48]
Marc Maron
Well, yeah, but like, I think the other fear is that, as, you know, with this type of technology is people will eventually adapt to anything. And if the actor goes, you give it a decade and people aren't going to miss it.
[21:58]
Robert Zemeckis
So look, so what's going to probably happen. I don't know if it's going to happen in my lifetime.
[22:02]
Marc Maron
Right.
[22:02]
Robert Zemeckis
About what's probably going to. Could. You know, they say this stuff is moving fast. What could happen is that a. Whatever you want to call him, a movie maker.
[22:12]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[22:14]
Robert Zemeckis
Could just be in his. In his. In his basement.
[22:19]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[22:19]
Robert Zemeckis
With his computers.
[22:21]
Marc Maron
Right.
[22:22]
Robert Zemeckis
And do every performance, create avatar characters, do the voices, do the performances, write the whole thing, do the music, do everything.
[22:34]
Marc Maron
Right.
[22:35]
Robert Zemeckis
And, you know, it'll be a different art form.
[22:38]
Marc Maron
Yeah. And then like, you know, the old art form will just be on. On YouTube and then people be like, look, they. They just moved. Like real people.
[22:48]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah. Like, if you look at, like, you know, you look at the. The. How magnificent sort of the. The charge at Aqaba was in Lawrence of Arabia.
[22:59]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[22:59]
Robert Zemeckis
That was real.
[23:00]
Marc Maron
I know it's crazy.
[23:02]
Robert Zemeckis
I mean, it's crazy, but you can feel that. That's wonderful.
[23:05]
Marc Maron
Can't you feel it?
[23:05]
Robert Zemeckis
Oh, God, you can totally feel it.
[23:07]
Marc Maron
That's a big difference.
[23:08]
Robert Zemeckis
I agree.
[23:09]
Marc Maron
I mean, like, so that becomes the shift that's a concern in terms of the danger of visual technology is that, you know, you kind of lose, you know, that feeling, that human element. And I think it's already happening because.
[23:25]
Robert Zemeckis
Well, here's the thing. Well, here's what I think. Look, I mean, it's going to. Here's quadrant, here's. Okay, so it's supposed to be a medium that's entertaining.
[23:35]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[23:35]
Robert Zemeckis
Okay. So we have to entertain.
[23:37]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[23:38]
Robert Zemeckis
Okay.
[23:38]
Marc Maron
And that's all you ever thought of.
[23:41]
Robert Zemeckis
That's. I always. I always understood that I'm in a mass entertainment industry. That's what I always understood.
[23:48]
Marc Maron
And that was your goal.
[23:50]
Robert Zemeckis
Because that's what I loved. I loved going to movies. And I had a thing happen. I had a thing happen in. In my hometown of Santa Barbara a couple weeks ago this summer. They ran. And there's an old theater there called the Granada and they celebrating its hundredth year. And they're gonna remind everyone that they used to run movies there as well. And they only wanted to run movies from local filmmakers. So they ran all my big hit movies. And I have people who aren't Come up to me and they were saying, and they're much younger than I am. They go, oh, my God, we went to the movie. Went so back to the future. And people were cheering in the movie and they were laughing and they were applauding when things would happen. And I'm thinking, yeah, well, that's what it used to be like to go to when you weren't watching stuff in isolation.
[24:43]
Marc Maron
Yeah, well, that's the human side of it. I mean, like, I guess that's the counter to the mass entertainment or being sort of involved and compelled to push the envelope technologically is that, you know, in your mind you have to sort of accommodate the idea that most people are gonna watch this at home and they're gonna be alone or they're gonna be with their.
[25:06]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah, that's hard for me to. I got a. I'm having a hard time rapping. But I can only. Well, let me put it this way. I've decided that I'm only. I can only do what I used to always do and, you know, and see what the movie feels like. I mean, seeing here in a full theater, like when we were previewing is, you know, it's got an emotional wallop.
[25:29]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Did it play?
[25:30]
Robert Zemeckis
Oh, God, yeah.
[25:31]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[25:31]
Robert Zemeckis
Oh, yeah.
[25:32]
Marc Maron
So, I mean, but was this. Do you remember your first experience with.
[25:35]
Robert Zemeckis
Movies when I was a kid?
[25:36]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[25:36]
Robert Zemeckis
Oh, yeah.
[25:37]
Marc Maron
Like the one that was like, you know. Oh, my God.
[25:40]
Robert Zemeckis
Well, I can tell you the movie. Interestingly, I can tell you. I'll tell you the movie that, that. So when I was a kid, you know, I loved going to movies. I love going to see war movies and anything with special effects in it. You know, monster movies.
[25:54]
Marc Maron
Go with your dad or something.
[25:56]
Robert Zemeckis
I would go. My dad, I go by, you know, you know, where I grew up, you.
[26:00]
Marc Maron
Know, where was that?
[26:01]
Robert Zemeckis
Far south side of Chicago. And we go on Tuesday nights because ladies would get in free, you know, that kind of thing. And I mean, they took me to see Psycho. Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean, it was great. I remember the first movie I ever saw, ever. And it was the Blob. Yeah, I remember it vividly. Yeah, so when I was in high school, I. All the kids in school were saying, hey, you gotta go see this movie called Bonnie and Clyde.
[26:31]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[26:32]
Robert Zemeckis
And it's got this great machine gunning thing at the end. It's great. You gotta go see it. And so I talked my dad into taking me to see Bonnie and Clyde.
[26:40]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[26:41]
Robert Zemeckis
And. Which is one of my favorite, obviously. It's one of my Favorite movies? Arthur Penn.
[26:46]
Marc Maron
Great. Yeah. I rewatch that again. You know, the layers of the sexual elements of that movie. You can't take that in when you're a kid.
[26:56]
Robert Zemeckis
I can't take it with a crib. But I did fall in love with those characters.
[27:00]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[27:00]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah. And then there's that great scene when Gene Hackman gets shot in the head.
[27:08]
Marc Maron
Oh, yeah.
[27:09]
Robert Zemeckis
And he's dying in this field. Cars parked around with the headlights on. And I felt so horrible.
[27:17]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[27:18]
Robert Zemeckis
And it was the first time I really remember saying, wait, something's going on here.
[27:22]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[27:23]
Robert Zemeckis
I'm saying, this is really. This is powerful because I'm in this movie theater with these people and I feel really bad for this thing that doesn't even exist.
[27:34]
Marc Maron
These shadows.
[27:36]
Robert Zemeckis
And he's a criminal, and these are criminals. And I thought. And that's when I said, I gotta figure. I gotta find out what this is.
[27:42]
Marc Maron
The magic.
[27:43]
Robert Zemeckis
The magic. And then I started understanding, oh, wait, there's writers and then there's a director. And I started learning everything about how films were made, the magic works and how and what. And where that. All that came from. And then I just. Just, you know how to do it.
[27:59]
Marc Maron
Well, so did you. How did your parents feel about this obsession? I mean, were they supportive? What kind of family you come from?
[28:07]
Robert Zemeckis
Was it working class, working, poor family? Yeah, well, we thought we were middle class, but when I look back on it, we. We were. We were. No, it was. It was. It was.
[28:17]
Marc Maron
Were they immigrants, your folks?
[28:19]
Robert Zemeckis
My mother, interestingly enough, came over. My mother. My father. My name is. My father is Lithuanian.
[28:25]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[28:26]
Robert Zemeckis
His family. And my mother is Italian.
[28:28]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[28:29]
Robert Zemeckis
And it's a combination that can only happen in Chicago.
[28:33]
Marc Maron
Chicago's an amazing city.
[28:34]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah, it really is. And so my mother came over when she was one year old.
[28:40]
Marc Maron
Okay.
[28:40]
Robert Zemeckis
So she was born in Italy.
[28:42]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[28:43]
Robert Zemeckis
So anyway, that's the family I grew up as a dad. Grew up.
[28:47]
Marc Maron
He was born here.
[28:48]
Robert Zemeckis
My dad was born here, yeah.
[28:50]
Marc Maron
And what was his business?
[28:53]
Robert Zemeckis
He was a carpenter. He was a trim carpenter. And he would make cabinets in the basement. He had a little working shop.
[29:02]
Marc Maron
Oh, wow. That didn't strike you as an occupation for.
[29:08]
Robert Zemeckis
I can't hammer a nail straight or do a saw cut. I can't do one speck of it. And so you grew up with that.
[29:16]
Marc Maron
Saw in the basement, The.
[29:17]
Robert Zemeckis
Oh, yeah, yeah. All those, you know, dewalt, rotor saw, all that running down there? Yeah, all the time.
[29:26]
Marc Maron
You have brothers and sisters?
[29:28]
Robert Zemeckis
I have one sister who's two years younger than I am.
[29:30]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[29:31]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah.
[29:31]
Marc Maron
What'd she end up in?
[29:33]
Robert Zemeckis
No, she's lives. She lives in the suburbs of Chicago.
[29:35]
Marc Maron
Yeah. She's married, so she's not in the show biz.
[29:40]
Robert Zemeckis
Racket income. Didn't. Didn't. Didn't follow me.
[29:43]
Marc Maron
So when you. When you share your obsession with this. With this film, I mean, what. What was the reason?
[29:47]
Robert Zemeckis
All right, well, I'll tell you the. Well, what. Where the reaction came was when I miraculously got accepted into the USC film school.
[29:55]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Yeah. After undergrad.
[29:57]
Robert Zemeckis
No, I was there as a. I was there as an undergrad.
[30:00]
Marc Maron
Okay. Yeah, Yeah.
[30:01]
Robert Zemeckis
I tr. Yeah, my uncle got me a job. I was making all these movies all through high school. Super 8 movies. Right? All these Super 8 movies and stop action stuff. A bunch of that.
[30:11]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[30:11]
Robert Zemeckis
Because I, you know, I could. The actors would do what I wanted them to do. Yeah. Because I was the only actor. My sister was always the actor and actress in the movie. And my cousins and stuff, we would do. And I would make these 8 millimeter movies. And then my uncle knew a guy who had a small production company in Illinois, and I. And I got a job there as a gopher and, you know, doing like, painting lawn furniture and stuff. But I worked my way up into becoming, I would call, like, an assistant editor. And they're making these industrial films, and so I used all their equipment, and on the weekends I made a 16 millimeter short film.
[30:54]
Marc Maron
And that's what you submitted to USC?
[30:57]
Robert Zemeckis
I submitted to USC.
[30:58]
Marc Maron
What was that about?
[30:59]
Robert Zemeckis
It was sort of like. It was like a rock video. I used Golden Slumbers from the Beatles as my soundtrack. And it had kids running through cornfield and it was. It was pretty avant garde. Oh, yeah.
[31:13]
Marc Maron
Were you aware of that? Were you aware of avant garde movies?
[31:16]
Robert Zemeckis
No, no. I was a. I was a Hollywood. I was a Hollywood mainstream, mainstream movie guy.
[31:24]
Marc Maron
Always mainstream.
[31:25]
Robert Zemeckis
Always mainstream.
[31:26]
Marc Maron
So you didn't even.
[31:27]
Robert Zemeckis
But I gotta tell you the story of how I found out about the real miracle.
[31:32]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[31:32]
Robert Zemeckis
Was finding out about the USC film school.
[31:35]
Marc Maron
Right.
[31:37]
Robert Zemeckis
I always stayed up every night. My family would go to bed and I'd watch Johnny Carson. And one night, Johnny, his guest was Jerry Lewis. And Johnny says, hey, Jerry, I understand you're a professor. And he goes, yeah, that's right. I teach filmmaking at the USC School of Cinema. And I literally stood up in the room and I said, school of Cinema.
[32:12]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[32:13]
Robert Zemeckis
Such a place exists. And the next day, I went to the local library branch in my neighborhood, and I went through the college catalogs and I found USC and I found the school, Performing Arts, and I opened up the page for the cinema school and there's a picture of Alfred Hitchcock standing in front of a class.
[32:38]
Marc Maron
And you were like.
[32:39]
Robert Zemeckis
And I said, this is where I gotta go. So I told this, I was working with Jim Carrey. He said, you ever tell that story to Jerry? Yeah. I said, no. He said, I'll get him on the phone right now. And he called up Jerry Lewis and he said, tell him the story.
[32:54]
Marc Maron
And what did Jerry say?
[32:55]
Robert Zemeckis
He said, oh, that's great. I really appreciate it. But you know, Bob, I'm still working, so, you know, anytime you need anywhere, you.
[33:03]
Marc Maron
The sad ending to the call. It's so funny that he's the delivery. He's the delivery. The guy, the messenger. Jerry Lewis.
[33:12]
Robert Zemeckis
Jerry Lewis. I mean, but I mean, there's the power and the great window on the world kind of thing of television.
[33:19]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[33:19]
Robert Zemeckis
I mean. I mean, that's the only way. So when I got accepted into the film school, my father literally said, are you telling me my son is gonna go join the circus?
[33:31]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[33:35]
Robert Zemeckis
That was what my father's exact quote was, the circus. The circus. It was kind of. Right.
[33:40]
Marc Maron
Totally right.
[33:41]
Robert Zemeckis
Totally right. And my mother said. And my mother said. She said, bob, kids who grow up in the south side of Chicago don't become movie directors.
[33:53]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[33:54]
Robert Zemeckis
And she was doing it not to hurt my feelings, but to tell. Not to have me break my heart.
[34:00]
Marc Maron
It's impractical, completely impractical.
[34:03]
Robert Zemeckis
Impossible.
[34:04]
Marc Maron
And also, is that kind of working class idea of like. It was a whole other world. How do you even get into that world?
[34:10]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah, I know. Yeah, it's like, it's crazy when you think about it.
[34:13]
Marc Maron
So how old are you? Like 19?
[34:15]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah, like 19. I come cold turkey, right to downtown.
[34:22]
Marc Maron
Did you drive a car out?
[34:24]
Robert Zemeckis
I drove my car out.
[34:26]
Marc Maron
What kind of car?
[34:26]
Robert Zemeckis
It was a 1964 Thunderbird. It was. Had a giant engine, gas guzzling, but it was fast, no air conditioning. And I drove it across country and I showed up in downtown la, a couple miles from usc, checked into Holiday Inn, and that was it. And that was it.
[34:51]
Marc Maron
And you show up for school and you don't know what to expect.
[34:53]
Robert Zemeckis
I don't know what to expect, but it was very dramatic because on the first day of the first class, which is some kind of Introduction to Cinema type of thing, the instructor came, I remember his name, his name was Dick Harbour. And he got in front of the class and he said, okay, well, here we are. Welcome to the USC Film School. He said, so I'll just give you a little idea of what we do here. And the lights went down, and up on the screen came George Lucas, thx his student film.
[35:30]
Marc Maron
Right.
[35:31]
Robert Zemeckis
And it was like, holy shit.
[35:32]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[35:32]
Robert Zemeckis
This is a high bar.
[35:33]
Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[35:34]
Robert Zemeckis
And it was. It was very dramatic.
[35:36]
Marc Maron
Did that appear to you as an art film?
[35:40]
Robert Zemeckis
To me, that was just. No, that was a science fiction story.
[35:43]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[35:44]
Robert Zemeckis
And it was like a spectacular student film with just. I mean, a student film that takes place in the future.
[35:52]
Marc Maron
Yeah. So that was in your.
[35:53]
Robert Zemeckis
It was like, giant, brilliant, huge production.
[35:56]
Marc Maron
Right. So you realize, like, there's no limits.
[35:59]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah. It's like you can do anything, you know?
[36:01]
Marc Maron
So. So what did you. Because, like, I noticed my girlfriend brought it to my attention that the tracking shot at the beginning of Back to the Future, you know, and then, you know, you gotta go back. You must have watched Touch of Evil, right? I mean, that seems to be anyone. Anybody who does it. I think Alvin did it in the player, too. Anytime you're opening with a tracking shot that lasts a half hour.
[36:21]
Robert Zemeckis
Right.
[36:21]
Marc Maron
You're just trying to beat.
[36:22]
Robert Zemeckis
Well, right, right. I had to put one cut in that shot, though. But. Yeah, because the timing of the. Of the dog food didn't hit the. Didn't. Didn't hit the things as. So anyway, that. It almost was a Touch of Evil shot, but. Yeah.
[36:38]
Marc Maron
Did you have that in your head?
[36:40]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah, no, that was exactly. That was exactly the idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[36:43]
Marc Maron
To pay homage.
[36:45]
Robert Zemeckis
No, I wasn't thinking. It is a homage, but it was just kind of like, hey, you know, this is no one's. This is. I guess what I was thinking was, there's nobody here. This is just us showing all this to the audience and the character walks in. So the. So the way to. Again, the way to do that is in the most entertaining way that you can think of doing it.
[37:11]
Marc Maron
Well, also, like, you know, I mean, you're kind of like an amazing storyteller at the base of all this and a writer. And I think, like, even I noticed that in Roger Rabbit, you know, you just. You just go around that office and you get like, you know, an hour's worth of story.
[37:26]
Robert Zemeckis
Oh, yeah.
[37:26]
Marc Maron
You know, just shooting that desk and those pictures, and it's like, all right, that's done. We know exactly who this guy is.
[37:33]
Robert Zemeckis
That's true. That was exactly the point. Exactly the point of that shot.
[37:37]
Marc Maron
And you did it with Dr. With Doc Brown in his lab. You know, you kind of like. You laid out. There's the whole movie.
[37:43]
Robert Zemeckis
There it is.
[37:43]
Marc Maron
Fill in the gaps.
[37:45]
Robert Zemeckis
And then. Yeah. And in that shot. And Roger Rabbit, it's also. You're also transitioning through time.
[37:50]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[37:51]
Robert Zemeckis
We start at night and then we come. By the time that that camera shot is done, we're in the next morning.
[37:56]
Marc Maron
Where he wakes up.
[37:57]
Robert Zemeckis
He wakes up.
[37:57]
Marc Maron
Yeah. So what was the relationship with. With Spielberg? I watched Used Cars recently.
[38:04]
Robert Zemeckis
Oh, yeah?
[38:05]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[38:06]
Robert Zemeckis
That's one of my favorites. Yeah, I like them all, but. Yeah, that's that. That was that. That's a fun movie. That's a good one. Oh, God, yeah.
[38:11]
Marc Maron
I mean, Jack Warden.
[38:12]
Robert Zemeckis
I mean Jack Warden. Jack Warden. And Kurt. Kurt Russell's fabulous in that movie.
[38:17]
Marc Maron
Oh, yeah. But so were these. Did you. Do you look at those movies as you figuring it out?
[38:22]
Robert Zemeckis
Well, of course. Because, you know, you're always learning something new. As a matter of fact, I will say I could never have made here.
[38:35]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[38:36]
Robert Zemeckis
As a. And I don't think as a novice filmmaker.
[38:39]
Marc Maron
No.
[38:39]
Robert Zemeckis
I think I had to have a whole lifetime of work and a body of work to, like, figure out how to do that well.
[38:45]
Marc Maron
And also the confidence of not moving a camera shot.
[38:48]
Robert Zemeckis
Exactly. Because I. Because I done enough, what we call, you know, singles or high concept shots to know what the problems are going to be.
[38:58]
Marc Maron
What were they?
[38:59]
Robert Zemeckis
Well, you got actors that are different heights and different sizes, and you can't adjust the camera to accommodate anything with a one shot. One shot. So we had elaborate trenches and ramps.
[39:10]
Marc Maron
Oh, wow.
[39:11]
Robert Zemeckis
Each one for different actors with their sizes.
[39:14]
Marc Maron
Oh, my God.
[39:14]
Robert Zemeckis
So that they could all walk up into their close. Up and back. And so, you know, so it was a. And then just the amount of weeks it took to figure out what lens to use.
[39:24]
Marc Maron
It took that long.
[39:25]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah. Because everything had to work.
[39:27]
Marc Maron
Yeah. I mean, you start at the dinosaurs. I mean, you're going way back.
[39:30]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah, go back. Yeah. It's a whole thing is one perspective.
[39:35]
Marc Maron
That's it.
[39:36]
Robert Zemeckis
One perspective on the world.
[39:37]
Marc Maron
So I'm like, oh, my God, what's this gonna be? And then it opens and it's just like dinosaurs running through the land. And then it kind of moves into the house and you sort of start to understand it, like knowing it was a graphic novel. You know, in retrospect, you know, that. That all tracks. You can do that with a graphic novel, you know, so you're like, I can do it with a movie.
[39:57]
Robert Zemeckis
That's what I thought when I saw the graphic novel. I said, this could be a really good movie.
[40:02]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[40:03]
Robert Zemeckis
I said, I think this could work as a movie because it was the way Richard McGuire painted the novel, it was filmic.
[40:10]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[40:11]
Robert Zemeckis
You know.
[40:11]
Marc Maron
Sure.
[40:12]
Robert Zemeckis
And.
[40:12]
Marc Maron
And also, like, if you live in an old house, which is rare now because there's so many people living in developments and. And new homes, like, this house is old. You always wonder, like, no matter where you live, what was here. You know, what was here.
[40:23]
Robert Zemeckis
Exactly. And it's interesting when the camera is in that one fixed perspective and it never moves. One thing that surprised me, that I didn't expect happening is it created a different kind of a super intimacy.
[40:37]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[40:38]
Robert Zemeckis
And of course, it was a main. It was a big chore writing, because only what can happen in this one view is what we're gonna see.
[40:50]
Marc Maron
Right.
[40:51]
Robert Zemeckis
So there's. So there was kind of. I found out that there was like a power to that.
[40:55]
Marc Maron
Yeah, well, yeah, once. Once the conceit is accepted by the audience, then, you know, you've got loaded up.
[41:01]
Robert Zemeckis
Right. So if you want to find out something about some characters, you can't cut to the bedroom.
[41:05]
Marc Maron
Right.
[41:05]
Robert Zemeckis
Or you can't go into the kitchen and hear what's going on. It all had to happen, right in this one.
[41:11]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[41:12]
Robert Zemeckis
And that's.
[41:13]
Marc Maron
And you really take on the history of America. I mean, that's what that movie's about in a lot of ways.
[41:19]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah, it's. It's a. Well, yes, it's about the history of America, I guess, in my life.
[41:26]
Marc Maron
Well, but not just further back.
[41:27]
Robert Zemeckis
It goes further back.
[41:28]
Marc Maron
Colonial, Native American.
[41:29]
Robert Zemeckis
Oh, yeah, of course, of course.
[41:30]
Marc Maron
And then, like, you know, that interesting decision. I guess it would have been, what, the 20s or 30s with the inventor.
[41:35]
Robert Zemeckis
Oh, yeah, right. Yeah.
[41:37]
Marc Maron
That guy was great. Yeah.
[41:38]
Robert Zemeckis
It was fun. Yeah.
[41:39]
Marc Maron
Because it's a whole different, like, you know, what you. What. What you know about what went on in your house is. It's always an interesting question.
[41:46]
Robert Zemeckis
It is. And if you. And if you think about houses that are in Europe.
[41:50]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[41:51]
Robert Zemeckis
And they're hundreds and hundreds of years old.
[41:53]
Marc Maron
Yes.
[41:53]
Robert Zemeckis
And just think about all the lives and the. And the exuberance and.
[41:59]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[42:00]
Robert Zemeckis
It's kind of. Really. Well, that was really fascinating for me to like, just to think about that.
[42:06]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[42:06]
Robert Zemeckis
See? And then to be able to kind of do this kind of meditation on. I hate to use that word, but I don't know what else you would call it kind of.
[42:16]
Marc Maron
I like it. It's okay. Is it too arty for you?
[42:19]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah. I don't want to scare anybody who might be listening on the idea that everything changes.
[42:26]
Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah.
[42:27]
Robert Zemeckis
Nothing's permanent and lives come and Go. Lives coming.
[42:30]
Marc Maron
And then, like, you know, the button at the end, you know, has its own implications. The human element of a life.
[42:38]
Robert Zemeckis
Exactly.
[42:39]
Marc Maron
And, you know, it's powerful, and it's a powerful last moment because, you know, it makes you think, like, what do we hold on to if we can?
[42:47]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah.
[42:48]
Marc Maron
So what was the. How did the relationship with Steven Spielberg evolve? Because I know those first few movies, I mean, 1941, which I haven't seen in years, was, you know, with him.
[43:00]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah. Bob Gale and I wrote that. He directed that. No, I. Again, I started at USC film school. I'm in. I'm in. I'm in a. I'm in a class where every. Every Thursday night, they would bring in. We were fortunate enough that filmmakers would bring in a movie that wasn't released yet.
[43:17]
Marc Maron
Okay.
[43:17]
Robert Zemeckis
And then they would come and talk to the class and ask and then do a little Q and A with the film students. And before that class, in the class I had earlier today, my instructor said, hey, we're going to have Steven Spielberg. He's this young new director. But I want you guys to see this thing that he did for television before we see his new movie. They ran Duel.
[43:51]
Marc Maron
That's crazy.
[43:52]
Robert Zemeckis
I know. Rand Duel. And it was like, oh, man, this. That was like one of the. I mean, great movies.
[43:57]
Marc Maron
The whole movie is a car chase.
[43:59]
Robert Zemeckis
Well, yeah, but. Yeah, exactly. I mean, the whole thing. And. But, you know, but the.
[44:05]
Marc Maron
But.
[44:05]
Robert Zemeckis
But the. But the villain is this. Is this machine. Yeah, right. So it's great. And so then they run Sugarland Express.
[44:16]
Marc Maron
Okay.
[44:17]
Robert Zemeckis
Which is beautiful movie. And, you know, Shop with Vilmo Zigman was all in widescreen Panavision and Goldie Hawn and. And then this. This kid walked in. Yeah, this kid is good. This kid walked in and I said, oh, my God, he's like a couple years older than me, like maybe two years older than I am. And he instantly became my hero.
[44:40]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[44:41]
Robert Zemeckis
And I meant. So he was able to do that movie and then this movie, and he's this young and how to. You know. So immediately right after the screening, I just ran right up to him, buttonholed him, said, hey, you want to see my student film?
[44:53]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[44:54]
Robert Zemeckis
He said, yeah, sure. Yeah. He said, here. I called my office and I said, where's your. He said, I have an office at Universal. So I followed up on that. And those were the days before there was video.
[45:04]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[45:05]
Robert Zemeckis
So he set up a. A screening room at Universal, and I brought my movie over, and we sat there together and I showed it to him, and he said, I love this. This is great. Good job. And then we sort of just. I just kept in touch with him.
[45:18]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[45:19]
Robert Zemeckis
And then it turned out that another of the. What we used to call the USC Mafia was John Milius.
[45:27]
Marc Maron
Oh, yeah. He's great.
[45:28]
Robert Zemeckis
He's great. And he loved the way Bob Gale and I wrote, and.
[45:33]
Marc Maron
Well, that's something.
[45:34]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah. And he's the one who set it up for us to develop 1941.
[45:41]
Marc Maron
Okay.
[45:41]
Robert Zemeckis
And then he gave the script to Stephen, and Stephen said, I love this. And then it turned out that. Okay. And then that was it. Then, you know, then I would. Then Bob and I were always in the writer's room with Stephen.
[45:54]
Marc Maron
And you met Bob at usc.
[45:56]
Robert Zemeckis
Bob, we're in the. Yep. We met in our first class together.
[46:00]
Marc Maron
And he wrote all the Back to the futures with you.
[46:02]
Robert Zemeckis
All the Back to the Futures. Used cars. No, no, that was Eric Roth.
[46:05]
Marc Maron
Okay.
[46:06]
Robert Zemeckis
He wrote. He wrote I want to hold your hand used Cars and all three. The Back to the Future.
[46:14]
Marc Maron
Well, it's interesting because I was. I'm reading. I read the. Al Pacino's new memoir, and it was. It's wild that. Because those movies, as good as the scripts were, whatever, but the box office wasn't great. Right?
[46:28]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah.
[46:29]
Marc Maron
So, I mean, in those days, that could really stifle your career.
[46:34]
Robert Zemeckis
Oh, yeah. All right. So I had this conversation. So Bob Gale and I, we were in. We were working on 1941. This is how it was back in the day. We were just two young guys. We didn't have anything. No money, no family, nothing. So, hey, I'm gonna fly you guys down to Alabama. I'm shooting a movie there. I'm shooting Close Encounters, and we'll work on the script at night with 1941. 1941.
[47:00]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[47:00]
Robert Zemeckis
And you guys can. I'll put you up in. I got a giant house there. And you guys, I'll just put you up in that house. I got a. You know. Yeah. So we're down there working on this, and then. But on the side, Bob and I are writing. We're writing Back to the future. No, I want to hold your hand.
[47:16]
Marc Maron
Okay.
[47:16]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah, I want to hold your hand. So we, you know, we're in the process of making 1941, and we gave Stephen the script for I want to hold your hand and said, we need. You know, give us some notes. And he read it. He said, oh, this is. I really like this. But he said, you know, Bob, you should direct this. Literally like that. So you should direct this I said, I know, I know, but how am I going to do that? He said, let me make some calls. Now, don't forget, this is after he made Jaws.
[47:44]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[47:44]
Robert Zemeckis
Right. So he had a lot of juice. And he had a lot of juice, you know, so he called Sid Sheinberg at Universal and. And Sid read the script and said, yeah, okay. And then we had, you know, said, yeah, this could, this is a, you know, the young kids running around, Beatles of songs. All right, this could work. So, so, so I made that. That was, you know, that was one of those experiences you were talking about earlier where we were at a preview and it was like they loved it.
[48:13]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[48:14]
Robert Zemeckis
We thought, okay, this is amazing. This is obviously no, you know, didn't make a penny.
[48:19]
Marc Maron
And what do you think that was about?
[48:22]
Robert Zemeckis
I can tell you exactly what it was about. I was thinking back. It was about. I remember driving into the lot every day making a movie. I'm going, I can't believe this. I'm making a movie. And you heard Studios Culver. No, over here. Yeah, Burbank. And I'm driving in every day and I'm thinking, oh, my God, I'm like in the. I'm in this giant infrastructure. This is great.
[48:45]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[48:46]
Robert Zemeckis
And then when it's time to release the movie, we had our first meeting with whoever was the head of the marketing department said, oh, so. Oh, yeah, what do you want us to do?
[49:01]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[49:02]
Robert Zemeckis
I went, oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know I'm supposed to do the marketing too. I'll go try to figure some stuff out for you.
[49:12]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[49:13]
Robert Zemeckis
So that was an important lesson.
[49:16]
Marc Maron
They didn't know how to sell it well.
[49:17]
Robert Zemeckis
And it was kind of like, oh, yeah, this movie's here. It was kind of like it was one of their. Some little movie. It wasn't on the, you know.
[49:24]
Marc Maron
Yeah. But they didn't ice it intentionally. It was just.
[49:27]
Robert Zemeckis
No, it's just that it had bigger fish to fry.
[49:29]
Marc Maron
Right, right.
[49:30]
Robert Zemeckis
And you had a. And you know, and so you had to like, get into the. You had to get into the pecking order system of how these movies are and understanding that your job isn't just to make. There weren't. It wasn't like this giant, you know, giant studio that was protecting you.
[49:46]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[49:47]
Robert Zemeckis
And it wasn't like that. It was just kind of like, okay, every, every movie has a, you know, fight for itself.
[49:53]
Marc Maron
And also like, you know, at that point in being in film school, you got to realize at certain point that, you know, this is post studio system. But they used to make hundreds of movies that would go nowhere.
[50:03]
Robert Zemeckis
Exactly.
[50:04]
Marc Maron
And every time you see him, you're like, how did I not know about this? Oh, because they made 50 other movies that year.
[50:10]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah, exactly.
[50:11]
Marc Maron
And you're just in the competition.
[50:12]
Robert Zemeckis
Right, exactly.
[50:13]
Marc Maron
And so. But after you. After that, you direct these cars, Used.
[50:17]
Robert Zemeckis
Cars, and that flopped at the box office. Another. You know, and, you know, and what's interesting about that movie is everybody somehow it came. It didn't make any money at the box office, but it exploded right at the birth of cable television.
[50:36]
Marc Maron
Okay.
[50:36]
Robert Zemeckis
So everybody sees that movie of mine. It was like a giant cable television, early cable television hit.
[50:44]
Marc Maron
But that doesn't add up with the be encounters at the studio.
[50:47]
Robert Zemeckis
No, it didn't. And didn't.
[50:48]
Marc Maron
But it got you the directing gig on Romancing the Stone or no.
[50:52]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah, yes, yes. Because Michael loved it. Michael Douglas loved movies and he liked Used Cars and he. And he liked my directing style. And. But what we had done, Bob and I, we had gone to Columbia and Frank Price was the head of the studio and he liked used Cars and he made Used Cars. But he. And so we went and we pitched him an idea and it was the. It was the most spectacular pitch that Bob and I ever did. Yeah, it was a one minute long.
[51:24]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[51:24]
Robert Zemeckis
And we went in and he said, okay. And you know, and you know, Frank was great. He put his feet up on the coffee table and he leaned back at his chair, he said, okay, guys, what do you got?
[51:32]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[51:32]
Robert Zemeckis
And we said, a high school kid goes back in time and meets his parents in high school. He goes, done deal. Go. Right.
[51:42]
Marc Maron
And that was it.
[51:43]
Robert Zemeckis
And that was it.
[51:44]
Marc Maron
Why not? Why wouldn't he say anything else? What's he got to lose? Exactly.
[51:49]
Robert Zemeckis
Consequently, he didn't make the movie, put it in turnaround, and so put the movie in turnaround. And did you know that Back to.
[51:58]
Marc Maron
The Future would be an ongoing story for several films?
[52:00]
Robert Zemeckis
No. No. Never. Yeah, Never. Not even after. No, not even after we made the first movie. We never had. I mean, because, you know, because I wouldn't have put, you know, I wouldn't have put the girl in the car.
[52:13]
Marc Maron
Right.
[52:13]
Robert Zemeckis
If I know it was going to be a sequel because we had to write her out.
[52:17]
Marc Maron
Right, right, right, right.
[52:19]
Robert Zemeckis
Get on with the story in the sequel. But.
[52:22]
Marc Maron
But it's interesting. So Romancing the Stone was kind of a surprise hit. So you had a little juice going in. Right.
[52:27]
Robert Zemeckis
Well, what happened was. What happened was the old. We got turned down from every single studio on Back to The future. I mean, 100%, even. Even after sometimes twice. And.
[52:40]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[52:41]
Robert Zemeckis
And the. Who said, I really love this is Stephen.
[52:46]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[52:47]
Robert Zemeckis
And I sat down with him and I said, you know, Stephen, you produced two of my movies, and they didn't perform.
[52:53]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[52:54]
Robert Zemeckis
I think if you produce the third one and it doesn't perform, that might be the end of it for me.
[52:59]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[52:59]
Robert Zemeckis
And he saw it. He went, I think you're right. He said, I think you're right.
[53:03]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[53:04]
Robert Zemeckis
So then I looked for other. And all I kept getting offered were these teenagers comedies, like. And.
[53:13]
Marc Maron
And just as a director.
[53:14]
Robert Zemeckis
You mean direct. And then finally, you know, Michael gave me Romancing the Stone. And then, fortunately, that was my first hit movie.
[53:25]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[53:25]
Robert Zemeckis
And then. And then everybody wanted to make Back to the Future.
[53:28]
Marc Maron
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
[53:30]
Robert Zemeckis
And so Bob and I said, hey, we're gonna go to the guy who. The only guy who ever had any faith in it.
[53:35]
Marc Maron
Go back to Stephen. So he did it.
[53:37]
Robert Zemeckis
And so he did it. Yeah.
[53:38]
Marc Maron
And the other. Like, you're very protective of the franchise.
[53:42]
Robert Zemeckis
Oh, God, yeah.
[53:43]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[53:43]
Robert Zemeckis
Oh, yeah. No, there can't be a four.
[53:45]
Marc Maron
Yeah. And also, no one can do a TV thing or.
[53:47]
Robert Zemeckis
No. And it's like. Yeah. I mean, no, we don't. We have a musical, which is fabulous, but that's sort of a companion to the movie. It's not a remake of the movie or anything, or a sequel to the movie.
[54:00]
Marc Maron
Yeah. And it's fun that you somehow another. Locked in onto Christopher Lloyd, you know, for that character, but also for who Framed Roger Rabbit? He's a singular kind of guy.
[54:10]
Robert Zemeckis
He's great. He's great, and he's great. And, you know, he would do this thing. He would ride his bike across the country.
[54:20]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[54:21]
Robert Zemeckis
And I sent him the script to. We had to find him and send a script to a hardware store in North Carolina. Yeah. Where he was somewhere on his bike, and I sent him the Roger Rabbit script, and I got a call from him a couple days later. He said, I just want to make sure this is. I can't do voices. But he goes, I just want to make sure I got this right. I'm a tune, right? I said, yeah, you're a tune. Great. I'm in. I'm doing it.
[54:57]
Marc Maron
As a character.
[54:58]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah.
[54:59]
Marc Maron
But then you, like, have this amazing run. But it's interesting because, you know, with the back of the Futures, and then Forrest Gump and what Lies Beneath cast away. Like, there was a few other movies in there that I don't remember seeing, not as an insult, but I mean, you were just making movies.
[55:13]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah.
[55:13]
Marc Maron
And you had enough freedom to do it that, you know, if one didn't perform as well as the other, it didn't kill you.
[55:20]
Robert Zemeckis
Not. No, not. I. Yeah. No, I was. I was fortunate that most of the movies that I was making in the. In the. In the 80s and the 90s and the early 2000s were connecting pretty good.
[55:34]
Marc Maron
Yeah. And what was the relationship, you know, with. It's interesting. I just realized there's another time travel element to the new one, is that, you know, you cast Robin and Tom again.
[55:44]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah, but that's. That was only because I made quite a few movies with Tom.
[55:49]
Marc Maron
I know. Yeah.
[55:50]
Robert Zemeckis
And I. And I made quite a few movies with Robin, but we never did anything together. And when Tom signed on to do here, I said, you know, Tom, I think, you know, you know, who'd be great would be, you know, we should. Is Robin. And he went, oh, my God, that's fabulous. I called her immediately, sent her the script, and she said, I'd love to do it. And so there's the three. So four of us from Forrest Gump are. Well, and plus, there's a whole bunch of crew people, too.
[56:19]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[56:20]
Robert Zemeckis
But Eric and I that, you know, Eric wrote Gump.
[56:26]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[56:27]
Robert Zemeckis
Tom and Robin were in Gump.
[56:28]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[56:28]
Robert Zemeckis
And I directed Gump, so.
[56:30]
Marc Maron
With Gump.
[56:31]
Robert Zemeckis
But it's not Gump.
[56:32]
Marc Maron
No, of course not. No. It's just interesting that the pairing has sort of a romantic pairing. Like, I always wonder, because I've done a little acting, but, like, you know, you always assume that everybody stays friends and they know each other. It's not the. That's not the case, you know, really, for most people. You know, they work together and they go have their lives. But I imagine for those two to get together in a romantic way again must have been. There must have been some sort of sense memory to the whole thing. Yeah.
[56:57]
Robert Zemeckis
No, it was great. I mean, most movies. Most movies are really. You know, people will see my movies and go, oh, my God, that must have been so much fun.
[57:05]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[57:06]
Robert Zemeckis
I go, no, it's fun to watch, but believe me, it wasn't fun to make. But here it was fun to make because it was like, okay. And seeing Tom and Robin working together, it was fantastic.
[57:23]
Marc Maron
And when does this sort of, like, the obsession or the compulsion to stay on the cutting edge of technology really kind of click into place after Roger?
[57:32]
Robert Zemeckis
No, I never really. I mean, here. You know, people think that Back to the Future is a special effects movie, and it's only got 30 shots in it, and it's. And most of them are lightning.
[57:42]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[57:44]
Robert Zemeckis
I've never. I've never put that cart before the horse.
[57:47]
Marc Maron
Right.
[57:47]
Robert Zemeckis
But I do. I do like to use every tool that's in the toolbox.
[57:54]
Marc Maron
Right.
[57:54]
Robert Zemeckis
If I can. If I can afford it, and if I think it can work. And I love the idea of saying, hey, how can we present something we've never seen before? Which I think is what filmmakers are kind of supposed to do.
[58:04]
Marc Maron
Well, that. Well, that's the thing about Roger is that, like, you know, I don't think I've seen that before or again in the same way. And I think a lot of it had to do with the, you know, having license. Being able to license those characters that we all grew up with.
[58:15]
Robert Zemeckis
And that was Steven's. That was Steven's magnificent contribution. He was the. And that's the one. I think the only way that that movie could have gotten made is with that one guy who was the executive producer who could call every studio and say, hey, I'd like to put your cartoon characters in this Disney movie.
[58:37]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[58:38]
Robert Zemeckis
And that'll never happen again. And it was. It was a miracle that it was able. Able to happen.
[58:43]
Marc Maron
But I'd forgotten. Even Betty Boop shows up. Oh, yeah. And it's just like, it's. And the jokes are so great, and all the actors were able to get that tone of that period and those type of movies. It was like. It was. I was. You know, and it's just in my mind from last night, I was completely taken with it, you know, as a grownup.
[59:01]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah.
[59:01]
Marc Maron
And that's the weird thing about movies, as we were talking about, even with Bonnie and Clyde, that if the movie is worth its whatever, that it grows with you, that you're always going to find new stuff.
[59:12]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah, no, I think so. I mean. And the thing that's interesting. I mean, but, you know, I made Roger for adults.
[59:17]
Marc Maron
Yeah, of course.
[59:18]
Robert Zemeckis
I mean, it's got cartoons in it. But it was never supposed to be a kids movie. Although, you know, he pulled a couple.
[59:24]
Marc Maron
Of punches with the Patty Cakes. But it was.
[59:26]
Robert Zemeckis
Well, yeah, but that was. But. But that was. That was. But you see. But that was all, like. That was in. That's what. That's what some. That's what a tune would have thought. Right. That's the thing. So we weren't, like, violating any. We were doing it the way that we think a tune would do it. But.
[59:43]
Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[59:44]
Robert Zemeckis
But Patty Cake is pretty funny.
[59:45]
Marc Maron
That's pretty funny.
[59:46]
Robert Zemeckis
That's really funny.
[59:47]
Marc Maron
So with, you know, moving through, you know, Gump, that was like. Did your expectations of that movie. I mean. I mean, it was one of the biggest movies ever. You know, a lot of prizes. But when you're making it, you're not really thinking that. You're just trying to pull it off, right?
[60:06]
Robert Zemeckis
Oh, yeah. No, you can never. I mean, that's the thing. And, yeah, you're just. And that one was. That one was the studio, they didn't know. They didn't know what we were making, and we were going a lot over budget, and we were hiding our overages. And so they got. They got really angry and sad. So at one point, when we finally got the movie back to la, we still had to do the scene where Tom is running in Monument Valley. And they were so angry at us. I mean, the guy was running the studio at the time. He was screaming. He said, do you realize what problems you're causing me in New York? You realize what problem? Said, I'm sorry, I. He says, shoot the goddamn thing in Griffith Park. Shoot it in Griffith Park. And so, you know, Steve Starkey and I, my producer and I, we broke it down. Broke it down. Broke it down. And we said, look, we can do this. We found this money. We can do it. We'll take a skeleton crew. We can fly into Monument Valley. We got it all laid out. We'll be there for one day. One day. And it's perfectly on budget. And then someone said, yeah, but it's December. Yeah. What if it snows?
[61:28]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[61:30]
Robert Zemeckis
We go, yeah. You didn't think that. Well, we're not gonna. We're not gonna pay the insurance bond. So I said, well, what do you want us to do? Well, why don't you and Mr. Hanks put it up? Put the bond up for the insurance.
[61:44]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[61:45]
Robert Zemeckis
So I went to Tom and I said, they want us to. He goes, gotta do it. So we paid for our own weather insurance. And then they couldn't. Then they had to say, yes, go do it.
[61:57]
Marc Maron
Yeah, right. It worked out.
[61:59]
Robert Zemeckis
It did.
[62:00]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[62:00]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah. It was a beautiful day.
[62:02]
Marc Maron
Yeah. And Castaway was like it with Tom. What is it about him?
[62:07]
Robert Zemeckis
He's like, well, he's a great actor.
[62:11]
Marc Maron
Sure.
[62:12]
Robert Zemeckis
And, like, in my opinion, about all really great dramatic actors, they know how to do comedy.
[62:17]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
[62:18]
Robert Zemeckis
And he's a great.
[62:19]
Marc Maron
Well, he was on sitcom.
[62:20]
Robert Zemeckis
Oh, yeah. Yeah. 100. And from where I'm sitting, making all these movies with him, the thing that is the thing that. The reason. One of the reasons why I love Working with him so much is he completely understands the medium he's working in, so. And he's so generous. You know, he'll be. He'll be on a. On a movie and he'll say, oh, no, this isn't my scene. I know what I'm supposed to do here. Yeah. I'm just here holding. I'm just here holding the papers, you know. Right.
[62:49]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[62:50]
Robert Zemeckis
You know, this is my. This is what I do in the end. And he's just so much fun to work with.
[62:55]
Marc Maron
I think.
[62:55]
Robert Zemeckis
Completely gets it. And he's. And he's always coming up with brilliant, you know, brilliant ways to improve everything. It's just great.
[63:02]
Marc Maron
And he. Well, I think it's that graciousness that makes him such an enduring movie star.
[63:06]
Robert Zemeckis
I think so too. Yeah. Yeah. And he's got that every man quality that is. It kind of works for. Kind of works for the being a. Being a movie star. Because you identify with them.
[63:20]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[63:20]
Robert Zemeckis
Oh, yeah, yeah.
[63:22]
Marc Maron
And then you go on this run of animated stuff.
[63:25]
Robert Zemeckis
Well, performance capture stuff.
[63:28]
Marc Maron
Okay. Yeah, yeah.
[63:29]
Robert Zemeckis
Right. Because it's not animated, but it's actors who are driving the. Yeah, well, that was. That was a thing where we were at this point where finally we had this way to perfect doing 3D movies.
[63:46]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[63:47]
Robert Zemeckis
And it was because we were projecting them digitally and so 3D finally worked.
[63:52]
Marc Maron
Yeah. And you were excited about that.
[63:54]
Robert Zemeckis
I was excited about that. And I loved the control of doing, you know, doing a complete digital movie.
[64:06]
Marc Maron
In the sense that you don't have.
[64:08]
Robert Zemeckis
To go outside, you don't have to worry about the weather. You don't have to worry about it. Weather's gonna snow, you don't, you know, and you're losing the light and all those things that are just. I call it the tyranny of production.
[64:19]
Marc Maron
Yeah. The things that make it risky.
[64:22]
Robert Zemeckis
The things that make it risky. Because what you're doing, it's funny because when you're making a movie, you're doing, like, crimes against nature.
[64:28]
Marc Maron
Right.
[64:28]
Robert Zemeckis
You want it to. You want the sun out at night.
[64:31]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[64:31]
Robert Zemeckis
And you want it to. You want it to be sunny when it's snowing. You know, it's like. It's. It's always that way.
[64:37]
Marc Maron
So on some level it was kind of like, you know, I'm going to take it a little easier.
[64:43]
Robert Zemeckis
From, From. From not having to production standpoint with.
[64:49]
Marc Maron
With real things.
[64:50]
Robert Zemeckis
Yes, exactly. In other words, it was a way to completely control what I wanted it to look like, what I wanted it to, you know, what I wanted it to do what I, you know, and that was. And that was. That was. That was. We, we. We broke a lot of ground.
[65:10]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[65:10]
Robert Zemeckis
You know, we broke a lot of ground. I mean, whether, again, whether for good or for bad, but where we are now in the, in the, you know, where, where everything, everything is digital is going.
[65:20]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Well, when did you start the Roberts Emeka center for Digital Arts at USC?
[65:26]
Robert Zemeckis
That was right around. Right around the year 2000, I think. Yeah.
[65:30]
Marc Maron
So it kind of coincided with a lot of that in a way.
[65:33]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah, but that was. Yeah, exactly. And they have a volume in there now for performance capture. They have a giant IMAX theater in there.
[65:45]
Marc Maron
Do you teach?
[65:47]
Robert Zemeckis
I did before that, in the early 90s. I did teach a entire film production class.
[65:57]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[65:59]
Robert Zemeckis
And it was a ton of work. It was, it was you.
[66:04]
Marc Maron
It's interesting when you enter that, you're like, yeah, sure, I'd like to share my, my experience. And then all of a sudden you got a job.
[66:10]
Robert Zemeckis
Well, my, my. Well, well, it was my, my, my favorite, My favorite professors took me to lunch one day.
[66:18]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[66:18]
Robert Zemeckis
And they said, they said, it's time. I said, I said, okay, how much you want?
[66:27]
Marc Maron
Right?
[66:27]
Robert Zemeckis
And they said, no, no, no, we want your time.
[66:29]
Marc Maron
Oh, yeah.
[66:30]
Robert Zemeckis
And I said, oh, okay. I said.
[66:33]
Marc Maron
And then after you're like, I just write you a check next time.
[66:36]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah, yeah, right. And so, so anyway, I taught this class and it was, it was great. And I'm. And I insisted that screenwriting teacher co. Teach it with me because I wanted to combine directing and writing because, you know, I'm a big believer in that.
[66:54]
Marc Maron
Yeah. That stories are the utmost importance.
[66:58]
Robert Zemeckis
Well, yeah. And I really think that the writer and the director have to be tied to the hip. And I've never replaced a writer on any movie I've ever made.
[67:08]
Marc Maron
And when you were with. Was Bob always on set with you and all the writers?
[67:11]
Robert Zemeckis
Oh, oh, yeah, all my writers. And some of them. Very few of them say no. I really, I got other stuff to do. But most of them are always there and I like having them. I mean, I like having them sit right next to me.
[67:26]
Marc Maron
Right. So you can problem solve in the moment if you have to.
[67:29]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah, exactly.
[67:30]
Marc Maron
Now, where does flight come from? Out of nowhere. So you do this, all this?
[67:34]
Robert Zemeckis
I was. Yeah, the script showed up and I completely, you know, I just completely got it. It's a beautiful script.
[67:40]
Marc Maron
It's a great movie.
[67:41]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah, it's great.
[67:42]
Marc Maron
Oh, my God.
[67:43]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah.
[67:44]
Marc Maron
And like, you know, I mean, you know, Denzel, I mean, that guy, you Just put him on screen. It's like, you know, he's.
[67:50]
Robert Zemeckis
He is the real deal.
[67:52]
Marc Maron
Yeah. And you got it. You're worried that, like, he's going to upstage the plane, you know, because he's, like, so good. He's great.
[68:00]
Robert Zemeckis
I mean, he's just. He's. He's fantastic. He's just absolutely fantastic. Fantastic. I mean, he's just. He just. He's. He is a. I mean, I can't say enough about him.
[68:08]
Marc Maron
Anybody's different than Hanks.
[68:10]
Robert Zemeckis
Completely different in.
[68:12]
Marc Maron
In. In the sense that, like, you know, as. As great actors. What makes Denzel, like, so awesome?
[68:20]
Robert Zemeckis
I don't know. I mean, because he. He would. He would. He. He would put the. He would put these earbuds in.
[68:26]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[68:26]
Robert Zemeckis
And. And he would show up. You never knew it. You know, you never had a call for him.
[68:33]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[68:34]
Robert Zemeckis
Because he would. We would still be setting up the shot, and then all of a sudden, I'd look in the corner, and there. And he's sitting there.
[68:39]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[68:39]
Robert Zemeckis
And he's in his wardrobe, and he's ready to go, and he's got these earbuds, and he's just sitting there. And I'm thinking, okay, well, this is his process.
[68:46]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[68:47]
Robert Zemeckis
You know, you say. And then he gets on his mark, and he just, you know, just perfect for this. Whatever he does just blows your mind.
[68:54]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[68:55]
Robert Zemeckis
It's just perfect.
[68:56]
Marc Maron
Wow.
[68:56]
Robert Zemeckis
So we're starting to edit the movie, and I was telling the story to my editor. I was saying, you know, I know. I notice he's listens to music before he. And instead I said, well, maybe give me. Find out what that music is, because, you know, I can. Maybe I can use it. And I said, hey, Denzel, I noticed that you're, you know, listening to this music.
[69:17]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[69:18]
Robert Zemeckis
You mind if you share the playlist? He said, no way. No. I said, okay, thank you. I said, no.
[69:27]
Marc Maron
End of conversation.
[69:28]
Robert Zemeckis
End of conversation.
[69:30]
Marc Maron
It's really a stunning movie. And you're a pilot as well, right? Yeah. So you kind of like the idea of that happening.
[69:36]
Robert Zemeckis
Well, I don't like the idea of that happening, but I was able to do it so that it was all real.
[69:44]
Marc Maron
Right. Well. Right. You had a personal connection.
[69:47]
Robert Zemeckis
No. And I knew what. I knew what would. Yeah. And I was able to really make all the. All the. All the tech talk, the tower and everything was actual.
[69:58]
Marc Maron
And the science of that is correct. The way he handled that situation would have worked.
[70:03]
Robert Zemeckis
Yes. Yes. And it's based on. And it's based on a tragic air Alaska flight that this happened to.
[70:13]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[70:14]
Robert Zemeckis
And there's theories. I mean, no one ever. So, you know, the way airplanes work, your flight surfaces direct the air. Right. And so what happened was in our movie, the elevator got stuck in the nose down position.
[70:39]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[70:40]
Robert Zemeckis
So it was forcing the air to push the nose of the airplane down.
[70:43]
Marc Maron
Right, right, right.
[70:44]
Robert Zemeckis
So in theory, if you were to convert the airplane.
[70:47]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[70:47]
Robert Zemeckis
Would make.
[70:48]
Marc Maron
Go back up. Yeah, go back up and then flip it right at the right moment.
[70:51]
Robert Zemeckis
Right. And so that we. So I don't think anyone ever. I mean, they could have maybe. They could maybe try to make that happen in simulators or aerobatic. Guys might be able to do it, but. Yeah.
[71:01]
Marc Maron
Crazy, man.
[71:02]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah.
[71:03]
Marc Maron
Very exciting. So that was your reentry into, you know, live action.
[71:06]
Robert Zemeckis
Live action. Yeah.
[71:07]
Marc Maron
And you did a few. But am I wrong in. In remembering that, you know, you were. There were two Pinocchios competing in the box office.
[71:14]
Robert Zemeckis
There was no box office for. I don't think there was any box office for either one.
[71:20]
Marc Maron
Oh.
[71:21]
Robert Zemeckis
Because they're both streaming.
[71:22]
Marc Maron
It was interesting, though, right, that there were two Pinocchios.
[71:25]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah, well, yeah, there was the Del Toro one. Right? Yeah. And then there was ours. Yeah, there was ours.
[71:32]
Marc Maron
But the differences are kind of interesting. Right.
[71:35]
Robert Zemeckis
Well, ours is the Disney version.
[71:37]
Marc Maron
Right, Right.
[71:38]
Robert Zemeckis
You know, and we use the. We use the Pinocchio from the Disney.
[71:42]
Marc Maron
Yeah, sure.
[71:43]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah, yeah. Disney movie. And we use. You know, we use all the characters from the Disney movie.
[71:47]
Marc Maron
Right, right. It's. It's sort of interesting that this stranger take that. The takes are so different of the same story.
[71:55]
Robert Zemeckis
Well, you know. Well, the. Well, the book. And the book that. The Italian book that it's based on is completely dark.
[72:08]
Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah.
[72:09]
Robert Zemeckis
I mean, you know, Pinocchio actually kills the cricket. You know, you can't have that. Right, no. Right. And, you know, and Pinocchio in the. In the book is like just a little asshole from the beginning. Right. But, you know, but that wasn't the Disney version. And so the Disney version basically has nothing to do with.
[72:27]
Marc Maron
Right. But that's sort of interesting in terms of, you know, what would be seen as an artist movie and an entertainment movie.
[72:35]
Robert Zemeckis
Well, yeah, it depends on how you're gonna do it. Right, exactly. Exactly.
[72:39]
Marc Maron
So, like, after this. This new movie here, which is. It's gonna be out when we have this conversation. I hope people watch it. What's the next big. What's the plan?
[72:49]
Robert Zemeckis
I don't know.
[72:50]
Marc Maron
Really?
[72:51]
Robert Zemeckis
I don't know. Oh, yeah, I got, you know. No, I Don't know what's. I don't know. Things are. Things are slow. I mean, when I say slow business in general. Well, there's a strange thing happening that I've never seen before, which is. Nobody's in a hurry to make anything.
[73:07]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[73:07]
Robert Zemeckis
I mean, nobody's making anything.
[73:09]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[73:09]
Robert Zemeckis
I mean, nothing scary, I think. I don't even know how to figure out what it might be. But I think nobody knows what to.
[73:22]
Marc Maron
Do in terms of how to sell.
[73:25]
Robert Zemeckis
No. How do what. What do. What do you make? What do you do?
[73:30]
Marc Maron
Why is that? Because the market is so fragmented. Because it seems like the desire to make wouldn't go away. It just seems to, you know, like money versus money coming in, money going out versus money coming in is the issue.
[73:45]
Robert Zemeckis
I don't. Yeah, I guess. But, you know, it's. It used to be the whole time that and the. The whole time that I've been making movies, it was always about figuring out a way to make a movie that the audience wants to pay to see so that we can make movie. Make money to make more movies.
[74:06]
Marc Maron
Right.
[74:08]
Robert Zemeckis
And I don't know how this works.
[74:10]
Marc Maron
In the streaming world with movies being.
[74:13]
Robert Zemeckis
Fundamentally a tech company, but there being no box office.
[74:17]
Marc Maron
Right.
[74:17]
Robert Zemeckis
I mean, because I can't even think of anything in human history where talent and excellence in an endeavor isn't rewarded.
[74:30]
Marc Maron
Right.
[74:31]
Robert Zemeckis
Can you? I can't think of anything.
[74:33]
Marc Maron
Well, I think that. Yeah, everything's been muddled by social media and by streaming. So like, you know, they've realized that not unlike other technologies, if you just churn out the same thing and hold the audience, whatever that is, according to the algorithm, why not just keep doing that?
[74:51]
Robert Zemeckis
And then I guess there is no incentive to.
[74:55]
Marc Maron
Right.
[74:56]
Robert Zemeckis
I mean, look, the truth is, is all the movies that you just listed.
[75:01]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[75:03]
Robert Zemeckis
I wouldn't be able to make any of those today.
[75:05]
Marc Maron
That's terrible.
[75:06]
Robert Zemeckis
It's true, though. I mean, because they're all too. I mean, making here is a miracle.
[75:13]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[75:13]
Robert Zemeckis
You know, because it's just. So there's no comp.
[75:16]
Marc Maron
Right.
[75:17]
Robert Zemeckis
As the word we use in the business. There's no comp for it.
[75:19]
Marc Maron
Well, that's. That's good when you want to make a movie.
[75:22]
Robert Zemeckis
It's good when you want to make a movie. But. Yeah, but I mean, but it's tough to get it. It's tough to get them green lit, you know? Yeah, that's the problem.
[75:29]
Marc Maron
Right. Well, I hope people see it. I enjoyed it.
[75:32]
Robert Zemeckis
Well, I hope you. Yeah. Well, appreciate that. Thank you.
[75:34]
Marc Maron
It was great talking to you.
[75:35]
Robert Zemeckis
Great talking to you.
[75:41]
Marc Maron
That was what you call a nice, deep, good talk about film and stuff, story stuff, life stuff. Great guy. That guy here. Opens in theaters on Friday, November 1st. Hang out for a minute, folks. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy. Just drop in some details about yourself and see if you're eligible to save money. When you bundle your home and auto policies. The process only takes minutes and it could mean hundreds more in your pocket. Visit progressive.com after this episode to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. Hey people. On Thursday I talked to country star Keith Urban and Keith was actually on the show once before for a few seconds. It was back during the Pandemic when we were doing stuff over Zoom and when I talked to Nicole Kidman, Keith made a brief cameo. Wow. A country music star and a movie star in the same frame. Did you play guitar? I do. I got a lot of guitars right behind me.
[77:00]
Robert Zemeckis
Yeah.
[77:01]
Marc Maron
What does Keith play? What do you usually play? What's your guitar? Telecaster, everything. Telestrats, Gibsons, Les Paul's. What's your favorite one, though? It changes. You like that single coil sound. I just got a. I got a 62 Les Paul Junior a few weeks ago. Oh, 62. Very nice. Like with the just the one P90 on there. It's great. There's nothing like it. I know. It's a good rock guitar. Great rock guitar. Yeah. Billy Armstrong agrees. Bye. Nice to talk to you. That's who you should be talking to. That's episode 1191 and you can listen to that for free right now, wherever you're listening to this episode. To get every episode of WTF ad free, go to the link in the episode description or go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF. A reminder before we go. This podcast is hosted by acast. Here's some guitar After I listen to Pink Foid at the gym.
[80:53]
Robert Zemeckis
Sa.
[81:21]
Marc Maron
Boomer Lives Monkey and La Fonda Cat Angels Everywhere.