Episode 1585 - Keith Urban

Summary

Detailed Summary of WTF with Marc Maron Podcast Episode 1585 - Keith Urban

Release Date: October 24, 2024

Host: Marc Maron

Guest: Keith Urban, Grammy-winning country singer and songwriter

Marc Maron welcomes country music superstar Keith Urban to the WTF podcast for an in-depth and revealing conversation that spans Keith's early life, musical journey, personal struggles, and reflections on the music industry.

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1. Introduction and Early Interaction

The episode begins with Marc reminiscing about his brief encounter with Keith Urban during the COVID-19 pandemic when he interviewed Nicole Kidman. This initial meeting left Marc with a lasting sensory memory:

"Keith Urban came in here with his smell. Don't know what it was." ([02:15])

2. Transition from Acting to Music Discussion

Marc transitions the conversation to Keith's work on the upcoming movie "In Memoriam," highlighting a pivotal moment in his acting career:

"There are a few scenes in this movie that require a level of acting that I just didn't have confidence in myself to be able to do." ([10:30])

The discussion delves into the emotional challenges of acting opposite Sharon Stone, with Marc sharing his vulnerability about freezing up during emotional scenes, and how Stone's presence helped him access his emotions:

"Sharon Stone was genius and, you know, took me to a place just by being there for me that I've never been before, opened it up." ([12:00])

3. Early Life and Musical Beginnings

Keith recounts his upbringing in New Zealand and Australia, emphasizing his deep-rooted passion for music influenced by his father:

"My dad loved American music. American cars. Everything." ([18:27])

Marc reflects on his own music tastes growing up, discussing how he was more into rock and how Keith's early exposure to bands like Dire Straits shaped his musical direction.

4. Moving to Nashville and Career Challenges

Keith shares his move to Nashville in the early '90s, detailing the struggles of fitting into the traditional country music scene:

"Arizona was a three-piece band, playing raw, spirited pub rock fusion stuff. No one knew what the hell to make of it." ([52:18])

He recounts an insightful interaction with Cliff Aldrich from Sony Records, who encouraged him to stay true to his unique style despite initial rejections:

"You're really unique. It's going to be your biggest curse until it becomes your greatest blessing." ([52:34])

5. Sobriety and Personal Struggles

A significant portion of the conversation delves into Marc and Keith's personal battles with addiction and the journey to sobriety. Keith shares his experiences:

"I went in just for the classic sort of 28-day program... For me, it's hard... multiple times." ([62:36])

Marc opens up about his own struggles, relating to Keith's journey and highlighting the importance of recognizing the illusions created by addiction:

"It's hard to grow up, man." ([73:35])

6. Collaborations and Songwriting

Keith discusses his approach to songwriting and collaborations, emphasizing his preference for co-writing and how it enriches his music:

"Writing more so words for me. I'm a melody guy." ([80:59])

He shares anecdotes about co-writing with Charlotte Caffey and Jane Wiedlin from the Go-Go's, which led to chart-topping songs:

"We wrote number one song." ([61:55])

7. Reflecting on Music Production

The discussion turns to the evolution of music production, with Keith explaining how technological advancements have changed the landscape:

"That the sound of demos is like, well, shit, that just sounds like the record." ([79:52])

Marc and Keith reflect on maintaining a personal sound amidst the industry's demands, with Keith noting:

"I just have a style. If you're gonna write a joke or do something, you don't have to make it sound like you. It'll just be you." ([80:36])

8. Reflections on Personal Growth and the Industry

Keith and Marc debate the challenges of maintaining authenticity in the face of industry pressures, with Keith asserting the importance of staying true to one's unique style:

"I like co-writing. I've always liked co-writing and I've written some of my own 100% songs, but I love co-writing." ([80:52])

The conversation underscores the balancing act artists must perform to preserve their individuality while navigating commercial success.

9. Final Thoughts and Conclusion

As the conversation wraps up, Marc and Keith share mutual respect and acknowledge their personal and professional growth journeys. Keith mentions his latest album "High" and plans to expand his work in Nashville:

"I just bought a studio in Nashville. A really good one. I'm so jonesing to get in there." ([84:02])

Marc praises the depth of their conversation, highlighting the emotional honesty that WTF with Marc Maron is known for.

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Notable Quotes:

• "You got to figure out what your fucking character's relationship right now is with this character's relationship and act appropriately to honor that dynamic." — Marc Maron on acting ([10:00])

• "You're really unique. It's going to be your biggest curse until it becomes your greatest blessing." — Cliff Aldrich advising Keith Urban ([52:34])

• "I called them the reluctant boyfriends because I see them out in the crowd less so now than early in my career." — Keith Urban on his concert audiences ([36:21])

• "Peace is the way." — Keith Urban's mantra on sobriety ([83:29])

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This detailed summary captures the essence of Keith Urban's conversation on WTF with Marc Maron, highlighting his musical journey, personal challenges, and the insights shared during their candid discussion. The inclusion of notable quotes with timestamps provides depth and allows readers to connect with significant moments from the episode.

Transcript

[Marc Maron]

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He was a judge on American Idol as well as the Australian version of the Voice. He's got a new album out. It's his 11th studio album. Famously married to Nicole Kidman. I met him briefly when I did during COVID I interviewed Nicole and he was setting up her computer so we had a. Hey, that. That was. That was just Keith Urban. I. I'll be honest with you, I didn't know a lot about him going in, but I did do the. The listening. When I interview a musical act, I'll do the listening. Figured out where he started, where he went. And I'll be honest with you, and this isn't really necessarily a bad thing, but in a way, Keith Urban has been with me in spirit since the day he did the interview. I'll explain to you why I don't. Look, I am no one to judge anybody for wearing particular scents that make them feel good. Who am I to fucking judge? I've been wearing patchouli for at least 35 years from the same place, mind you. I've been buying my patchouli at Life in San Francisco on lower hate for 35 years, for a long time. But Keith came in here with his smell. Don't know what it was. It was specific. But I guess our smells fought it out. His particular scent, definitely one, because I can still smell it. And again, not a negative thing, but it's here and I don't know when it's going to go away. It's Not a bad smell, but I mean, after a certain point, you know, I interview a guy and, you know, I kind of move on with my life. But I have been unable to completely move on from Keith Urban. Again, not making a judgment. I wear patchouli, but. But in a way, in spirit or at the very least in smell, Keith has been with me. Again, not bad. Not saying anything bad about Keith. I'm just stating a fact. It's what's happening, and I imagine it'll pass. Maybe after I post this episode, the scent he was wearing will. Will leave. Maybe it's been waiting for this. I don't know. This Saturday, October 26th, I'll be at Dynasty Typewriter here in Los Angeles. The rest of my tour dates are scheduled for the next year. You can go to wtfpod.com tour to see all of them. So, look, I'll tell you what happened now that, you know, the cat's out of the bag in some ways. The cast of the movie I'm doing, In Memoriam, is kind of growing. And publicly, it was just announced that Sharon Stone and Lily Gladstone are on board. But the breakthrough I was talking about that happened was with Sharon. Now, I've interviewed Sharon Stone here on the show years ago, and it was great. She's great. And you, anytime you hang out at all for any amount of time with Sharon Stone, you're like, holy fuck, this person's a electric person. She's an electric person, an inspired electric person. And if you know her work, you're like, she's a fucking great actress. One of the best fucking movie star. So she's in the movie and I got this big scene with her now in this scene. And I've known this for months before I knew Sharon Stone was going to be in it. It calls for crying. And I was fucking nervous about it. There's like two or three scenes in this movie. I'm not going to tell you the scenes. I'm not going to spoil the movie or really give you the story. But there's a few scenes in this movie that require a level of acting that I just didn't have confidence in myself to be able to do. But I wanted to rise to the challenge. But I was hung up on this crying business. Even though I know, I know in a lot of movies they just spray some menthol or smear some menthol fall under their eyes and you can have the tears there. But do you have the emotions behind it? And look, I'm learning a lot about this thing now. Because I'm having to do all these different types of acting in this movie and because of the conversations I've had here in this story, primarily. My recent talk with Al Pacino and earlier talk that I had with Ethan Hawke played a good part in me kind of figuring out how to do what I had to do. But I still. Going into this scene, which was multileveled and long, I knew that Sharon and I had to get to crying. And I. Look, I assume she could do it. Obviously, she's fucking Sharon Stone, but I was wary. And, you know, we enter the scene and it's just her and I, and there's a lot going on between us in this scene. And we shoot a couple of them. We shoot a couple of takes, and I'm like, I am. I am just. I am disappearing into me. I'm falling into the hole of Mark. I'm looking at Sharon Stone. We're running the scene, and I'm like, I'm. I am. I was. I was crumbling, folks. Crumbling. I didn't let on. But you kind of know when you're doing a job of any kind and you're working with somebody who's really good at that job, you kind of. You know, when you're. You're. You're. Your part of the job is not quite up to snuff. So I have a meltdown in my trailer. Not as bad as DiCaprio did in once Upon a Time in Hollywood. No booze involved, but it was pretty good. You know, that's what managers are for, to watch you pace around and yell that you can't do it. And I was, like, just completely falling apart. I'm the lead of this movie. You know, you get that out. And then I'm like, dude, you gotta figure it out. You gotta go back in there. This is not Marc Maron and Sharon Stone. This is two people playing characters that have a relationship. There's something you need. There's something you are wanting in this scene. You know what the scene is. You know where you're at. Figure out what your fucking character's relationship right now is with this character's relationship and act appropriately to honor that dynamic. Figure it out. Do not enter the scene thinking, fuck, Sharon Stone is here. That's not the right way. So I figured that out, man. I did the Pacino thing, You know, I went to the character. You know, I read my post. It that just says posture on top of it with an exclamation point. Then go to the character. What's going on? In the scene, where are you going? Where do you come from? Why are you here? I do that, but I gotta cry. And I'm getting into a zone where I'm trying to find. Where is the zone where I cry? I don't have the tools to cry on purpose. Every tool I have is the opposite of that. It's the opposite tool. I'm a comedian. How do you not cry? How do you make crying funny? With words? That's my job. But I gotta find this place and. But, like, so I get back from lunch, I'm confident about how our characters are interact so I can sort of hold my own. I'm thinking about Ethan Hawke when he told me that when he got Training Day, you know, he watched Denzel Washington's. All his movies just as. Almost training films, just so he wouldn't get eaten alive. I didn't have time for that. But what it meant to me was, like, ground yourself in you, dude. All you got is you. So live in it fully. So we're doing this scene and we do, you know, a couple of. We do, like, one take of it, and I'm like, look, I said to Sharon, you know, it's going okay. We're still in, like, a master shot. You know, they're coming in. I'm like, you know, I don't think I can cry. I don't think I can do it. So I gotta. I'm gonna have to put that stuff in. You know, I said to her, and she said she knows an actor that puts onions in their pocket and then just rubs her eyes before. And I'm like, I'm not doing that. But they got the stuff and. But I was. I felt like it was a failure. I felt like, you know, dude, if you want to fucking act and you want to connect and you want this to be honest, and you want this. This moment in this story to be honest, you know, you should be able to cry. I felt like I was just throwing the towel in. I said, right. You know, I said, I'm going to get this stuff. She goes, you. You can cry. And I'm like, I don't. I don't know. I don't know. I think she goes, what makes you cry? And I'm like, well, you know, it happens. I have no control over it. Sometimes TV commercials or a cat video, something like that, you know, there's some stuff. And the whole time I'm in my character, you know, before the scene and on the breaks of the scene, I'm thinking, like, get into a Zone, man. Get into a place where you can find this emotion. And I just wasn't finding it. I was in the right area, but I didn't know how to get it out. And she goes. She says to me. She looks me in the eyes. There's a point in the scene where she grabs my face and she says, I know what makes you cry. She goes, you know what makes you cry? And I'm like, okay. And I'm looking right at her face, and I go, you talking. Are you talking about Lynn? She had reached out to me after Lynn passed away, you know, and was, you know, very nice and supportive. And I feel like I know Sharon a bit. We're not pals, but she knew about Lynn. And she goes. And I said, lynn? And she goes, yeah. And she looks me in the eyes and, like, you know, we're face to face, you know, between shots, and she says, you know, do the scene to Lynn. And I'm like, what? And I'd already been thinking about that, like, you know, in order to bring up tears. It wasn't that I was thinking about a moment with Lynn, you know, the love of my life who passed away, but I was thinking about how much Lynn believed in my talent and wanted so much for me to do it and to enjoy it and to. And to, you know, express myself with this acting thing. And it was when she was always so supportive. So it was just this idea of Lyn's love and support being gone, but being there with. With me. I was trying to get there before Sharon even said that. But then I'm like, yeah, I know, I know, I know. She goes, look, she says this to me. She says, you do. You do the scene, you know, do it. Do it to Lynn. And, you know, she'll be here. I'll make sure she'll be here. I'll get her here. And I was like, what? You know, and whatever you think about what she's. So. What, you know, she's telling me, or whether, you know, it was a magic trick or mystical. She got me place where I felt like I could get to the place I needed to get to, to live in this scene with honest emotions, you know, for the emotional crying, which becomes. Once you get to that place, you're in the scene and the lines are the lines, and the relationship in the scene is the relationship. I wasn't, you know, thinking about doing it to Lynn or picturing Lynn. I was being the character with Sharon in this situation where we were both crying, sobbing, sobbing on a couple of takes. And I've never sobbed like that, you know, in public ever. On this show once, for that reason. But it wasn't about that. It was about how do you get to the well of emotions, whatever they are, you know, and bring them to life within this scene for this story. I'll make sure she's here. Wow. God damn, man. Never going to be the same. Sharon Stone was genius and, you know, took me to a place just by being there for me that I've never been before, opened it up. So now I got that. Yeah. I don't know how much control I have over it. I couldn't. I don't think I could do it right now. Hey, folks, it happens to all of us. You start thinking about what you should have for dinner, but then it's dinner time and you still don't have a plan. So you just eat leftovers or you order takeout. That's a pretty regular practice for a lot of people. And it winds up costing too much, to say nothing of the quality. So that's why I'm recommending Home Chef. A way for you to enjoy home cooked meals without the stress of planning ahead. It's super easy and it will save you money. Home Chef provides fresh ingredients and Chef designed recipes conveniently delivered to your doorstep to simplify your cooking experience. I had a kit with a Cuban style avocado and quinoa bowl and then another one with one pot butternut squash chowder. But you'll have more than 30 options each week, and they'll fit any dietary need. For a limited time, Home chef is offering WTF listeners 18 free meals, plus free dessert for life and of course, free shipping on your first box. Go to homechef.com WTF that's homechef.com WTF for 18 free meals and free dessert for life. You heard that right? Homechef.com WTF and you must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert. All right, so Keith Urban. Keith Urban is here, and he's with me here in the studio, still in spirit and in scent. His new album High is now available wherever you get music. And this is a We had a good time. You know, I didn't know where it would go, but him and I did pretty good, Me and Keith Urban. Life is busy people. And if you're like me, no matter how busy you get, you've got to get your fitness in. Peloton has a variety of challenging classes and programs that fit into your schedule. Whether you're a new parent or traveling for the holiday or training for something big or just busy like everyone else. From four week strength building classes to running, cycling and everything in between, Peloton can adapt to any goal and need during your busiest times. Find your push, find your power with [e-mail]. So nice to meet you.

[Keith Urban]

You too, Mark.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I like. I think I met you briefly.

[Keith Urban]

Driveway.

[Marc Maron]

No. Yeah, in the driveway. Driving up in your own car. Very, very respectable. A guy who drives himself. I always, I'm sort of like, hey, he's a real guy.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah. I don't like being driven.

[Marc Maron]

What is that? Nauseousness? Trust. What is the not liking?

[Keith Urban]

It's a love of driving.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, really?

[Keith Urban]

I love driving. Yeah. I love cars. I always have. My dad loved cars. Yeah, I inherited that.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I grew up in New Mexico. There is a thing like either you're a driver or you're not.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, like when you like just to like drive for a long time, you get into a zone.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And you know, I remember I had a weird moment where I've been driving for hours and I was listening to Iggy Pop on the loud. But you get into the zone. Then I got out of the car at a gas station. It was like I landed on another planet, you know, because Iggy was blasting and I realized, oh, everyone's just going on with their life. I was in this space machine.

[Keith Urban]

Perfect.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Oh, look. I wanted to show you this thing because I thought you would like it.

[Keith Urban]

Oh, wow. Tele deluxe. Look at that.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. 73.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah. I can tell by the. The whole look of it and the knobs.

[Marc Maron]

This thing.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Don't you play telly?

[Keith Urban]

I do. I got a lot of tellies. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

What's like, what's your.

[Keith Urban]

Well, the first guitar, the first electric I ever bought.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

I couldn't afford a Fender, so I got an Ibanez Fender Telecaster copy.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Ibanez.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I think my first guitar was like. I think the brand was actually called Copycat. It was a Copycat. Gold top.

[Keith Urban]

Wow.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And then my.

[Keith Urban]

How much was it? Do you remember?

[Marc Maron]

It was probably 100 bucks. 120 bucks, maybe.

[Keith Urban]

Did you have 120 bucks?

[Marc Maron]

No, I think my folks bought it for me for my birthday.

[Keith Urban]

Did you have to pay them back? Oh, no. Birthday. Okay.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, something like that. But then I did buy a Telecaster that they. No, my parents. I guess I was more of the spoiled ilk they.

[Keith Urban]

Have. You got siblings?

[Marc Maron]

Got a little. A little brother.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You did.

[Keith Urban]

You Both get spoiled or just you?

[Marc Maron]

Well, I mean, it wasn't massively spoiled, but they bought me a guitar. Do you have siblings?

[Keith Urban]

Yeah, just one brother.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Older?

[Keith Urban]

Two years older.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, so what's your.

[Keith Urban]

What's your difference?

[Marc Maron]

He's two and a half years younger than me.

[Keith Urban]

There you go.

[Marc Maron]

So I was.

[Keith Urban]

I'm talking to my brother, basically.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. But, like, I feel like my brother went the other way. You know? My brother was a sports guy.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah, my brother's a sport guy.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, so you didn't get the benefit of having the cool older brother with the good records?

[Keith Urban]

Well, yeah, I did. He loved music. He wasn't a musician, but he turned me on to a lot of English bands in elo.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Super Tramp and stuff like that.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, super. Yeah. I remember that period. You're like a few years younger than me, but I remember in high school when that Super Tramp, Breakfast in America came out. Yeah, that was like a huge record.

[Keith Urban]

Oh, yeah, massive.

[Marc Maron]

Are you an EOL guy?

[Keith Urban]

Oh, massive. Really massive. Eo, embarrassingly, but have to say I probably knew all about the Beatles through elo.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Keith Urban]

ELO were like my surrogate Beatles band. My mom and dad didn't have any Beatles records when I was growing up.

[Marc Maron]

How is that possible? That almost seems illegal.

[Keith Urban]

It is. Should have been.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Probably illegal.

[Marc Maron]

Where was this? Was this in Australia or earlier?

[Keith Urban]

Yeah, yeah, in Australia. My dad just loved American country music, so his records were all American country music.

[Marc Maron]

But were you born in Australia?

[Keith Urban]

I was born in New Zealand.

[Marc Maron]

Did you live there for long?

[Keith Urban]

No, I was barely two when my parents moved to Australia.

[Marc Maron]

Now, like, is new. Is New Zealand a thing where, like, if you grew up in Australia, you're like, I'm going to go to New Zealand for the weekend.

[Keith Urban]

I don't know about the weekend, but.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, people fly there. Do you know what I mean? Like, I mean, is it like, going.

[Keith Urban]

To, like going to Hawaii or something?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah.

[Keith Urban]

It's closer, right? From Australia to New Zealand, three hours.

[Marc Maron]

But people vacation there. Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And my mom and dad, just classic young, rural country kids that wanted a bigger, better life.

[Marc Maron]

But this is rural, young country kids in New Zealand. Like, there, like, there is some sort of weird correlation. So he had all, like, what country records were you listening to? Did he have everything?

[Keith Urban]

I mean, the first concert we went to with Johnny Cash when I was about seven.

[Marc Maron]

What year was that?

[Keith Urban]

I don't know, early 70s? Yeah, yeah, my dad took us to that. And all his records were Charlie Pride, Waylon Jennings, Dom Williams. Willie Nelson, George Jones. George Jones, all of them.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Oh, yeah. My dad loved American country.

[Marc Maron]

Is that something? Is that an Australian thing?

[Keith Urban]

It was a dad thing. It was. Because he grew up. Obviously he grew up in New Zealand. He's a drummer.

[Marc Maron]

He is a drummer.

[Keith Urban]

So in the 50s, when he was a teenager, rock and roll exploded all around the globe. And my dad just was obsessed with American music, American cars, everything.

[Marc Maron]

So was Elvis massive? Yeah. Did he have an American car?

[Keith Urban]

We only had American cars. Yeah. We're like the oddball family in our town with Pontiac or Chev or Buick or something.

[Marc Maron]

And so they were readily available in.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah, people would always import them. And I guess.

[Marc Maron]

I don't know what I'm thinking. I'm like, what's a famous Australian make of car?

[Keith Urban]

Holden's was an Australian make of car. Yeah, Holden, which is really the gm. Yeah, it's like general. So Holden was the Australian one and then Ford.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And they were the two. You know, it was like Pepsi and Coke. Right. Ford and Holden. You, you, you. You had one or the other. Hated the other person.

[Marc Maron]

Right. But your dad had Pontiac.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Chevs, like Camaros or.

[Keith Urban]

No, we had a Bel Air.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Keith Urban]

We had a couple of Lincoln's.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Mark four.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And Pontiac, a thing called a Laurentian, which is a weird model 1959.

[Marc Maron]

But was it unusual to be like a country fan in Australia? I mean, because I have no sense of like. Because I know there are. Well, I made the mistake of using the word cowboy to Nick Cave.

[Keith Urban]

And in what context do you say cowboy to Nick Cave?

[Marc Maron]

Well, because, like, my idea of a cowboy, you know, in terms of like the loner that kind of makes his own way, his own hero.

[Keith Urban]

That's good.

[Marc Maron]

Right? Right. So I said, you're kind of a cowboy. And he, like, was. You know, because I guess it means something different in Australia. I felt like it was. He thought I was calling him gay or something and he got very prickly.

[Keith Urban]

I wouldn't imagine that.

[Marc Maron]

And it was. It was weird from, you know, from that point. I don't know. He didn't take it right.

[Keith Urban]

That's funny.

[Marc Maron]

But there are real cowboys in Australia, of course, because it seems like, what's his name, Russell Crowe has kind of become a cowboy.

[Keith Urban]

It's a. I mean, it's a massive rural country. Yeah, huge. You know, and a lot of. A lot of rodeo stars in Texas come from there. A lot of the rodeo writers that go and compete and do all the stuff in Texas. A lot of Them come from Australia.

[Marc Maron]

It's interesting, right? I mean, because there's also actors, too. For some reason. They breed a certain type of actor there. Big actors.

[Keith Urban]

Yep.

[Marc Maron]

Like, you know, like, you know, Russell and Joel Edgerton and Nicole and. What's the other one?

[Keith Urban]

Mel Gibson. I mean, there's this.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, Mel Gibson.

[Keith Urban]

There's a million of them down there. It's crazy. I mean, per capita, it's pretty dense.

[Marc Maron]

But not country singers.

[Keith Urban]

Well, there is. They just haven't. You gotta come to Nashville.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

You know, you gotta put in the time.

[Marc Maron]

But, like, is there a music.

[Keith Urban]

There is an Australian country music.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

And how is that different?

[Keith Urban]

It involves more of a sort of regional colloquial lyrics and stories and things that are about.

[Marc Maron]

But it's still kind of the four chords. Maybe the fifth one.

[Keith Urban]

Maybe.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

They found the secret chord.

[Marc Maron]

It's like country style. American country style.

[Keith Urban]

So that's. I mean, that was why I always wanted to come to Nashville because on the back of my dad's records, it always said, recorded in Nashville, Tennessee.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And so I went. Oh, that's where you go to make records.

[Marc Maron]

So you get your first guitar. It's the Ibanez copy of a telly. Yeah. And then when do you get your next guitar? What's that one?

[Keith Urban]

That's a good question. I. Well, no, I know exactly what it was. So. I was nine.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

When I got my Ibanez Telecaster copy.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, my God. So you're. You're at it pretty young.

[Keith Urban]

I started playing guitar at 6.

[Marc Maron]

Now, were you a wizard or were you just a regular kid? Do you know? I mean, like. I mean, it seems like they're. Because you're a great guitar player and, you know, either, you know, you have a natural proclivity or, you know, you practice your ass off.

[Keith Urban]

I'd say all the above. Combination of all of it.

[Marc Maron]

So when you.

[Keith Urban]

I started my 10,000 hours early.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. So when you locked in at 9, you were ready to go?

[Keith Urban]

Yeah, I wasn't very good at nine.

[Marc Maron]

No. Right. Obviously. Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

But I got this Telecaster and I had it until I was about 15. And then a friend of mine turned me onto Dire Straits when I was about 15 years old.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Keith Urban]

And I would just obsess with Mark Knopfler.

[Marc Maron]

So you weren't in those licks?

[Keith Urban]

Yeah, that's what I wanted to play.

[Marc Maron]

Like Mark from the first Dire Straits record.

[Keith Urban]

First record. And Communique and Tunnel of Love Over. Tunnel of Love. Love Over Gold. All those records.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And nobody Plays like that guy, but I think he, like, I feel like, you know who he kind of plays like, who I feel like might be a source, but I don't know. I've never talked to Knopfler, but Richard Thompson.

[Keith Urban]

Oh, interesting.

[Marc Maron]

I mean that.

[Keith Urban]

I wouldn't be surprised.

[Marc Maron]

That guy's an animal on guitar.

[Keith Urban]

Oh, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

It's fucking crazy.

[Keith Urban]

Mark has always cited Hank Marvin.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And Chet Atkins as.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. With that picking. Did your dad had Chad Atkins records?

[Keith Urban]

Nope. No.

[Marc Maron]

Do you ever watch. Do you ever watch those old YouTubes of Glen Campbell?

[Keith Urban]

Oh, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, my God.

[Keith Urban]

I've done many deep dives on Glenn.

[Marc Maron]

What a guitar player, right?

[Keith Urban]

Amazing guitar.

[Marc Maron]

Jerry Reed too.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah. Oh, God, yeah. And no man with the Golden Thumb. Come on.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, it's crazy, dude. Like Roy Clark to a certain degree.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Right. Those guys. But like when you see. You know, because like when I was growing up, you know, Glen Campbell had those hits, you know, that were not guitar songs. And Jerry Reed did a couple of goofy hits. But then when you. You do a little deeper dive, you're like, oh my God.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

To see those guys. To see Chet and Jerry replay.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Holy shit.

[Keith Urban]

Well, Glenn was a good influence for me because my dad had Glen Campbell records too, so.

[Marc Maron]

And you could identify because he was a studio guy. Right.

[Keith Urban]

As I didn't know he played guitar. I mean.

[Marc Maron]

Right, exactly.

[Keith Urban]

I'm just a little kid listening to this guy singing amazing voice singing songs like Wichita, Lyman and Galveston. Where's the Playground, Susie? These amazing songs that weren't country. Quote, quote, end unquote. Right. They're just like. They're just great songs.

[Marc Maron]

It is interesting that, you know that they don't really identify as country. They're just like. Everyone knew them.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know what I mean? Because you listen to George Jones and that's country.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know what I mean?

[Keith Urban]

Yeah. But then like Glenn's voice was more in it. Cross. Cross genre voice.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

He didn't have a hardcore twang in a particular.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Singing that made him country, which is why he was so pop. Pop popular.

[Marc Maron]

Pop.

[Keith Urban]

Pop country in that regard. Those songs are pop songs. Really.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. You know, so what are you doing in Australia with. You know. So you. You have the ibanez to like 15. When do you start?

[Keith Urban]

Then I get a Strat. A proper Fender Stratocast. Oh, you did at 15.

[Marc Maron]

Like a new one. It.

[Keith Urban]

Well, again, embarrassed to say. Yeah, it was a short lived one that Fender did called the Strat Then he made him in, like, Lake Placid Blue, Candy apple red.

[Marc Maron]

Wait, was this in the 80s?

[Keith Urban]

Yeah, I had one of those 1980 and 81. 82. Right around there.

[Marc Maron]

And it had weighed a ton. Right.

[Keith Urban]

Big neck, gold hardware.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Candy apple red.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Keith Urban]

That's what I bought. I should have bought a Les Paul.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

I mean, I'm going to bust my shoulder up. Let's. You know.

[Marc Maron]

It would have been the same thing.

[Keith Urban]

It would have been better.

[Marc Maron]

So are you. Did you put a band together then?

[Keith Urban]

I was in a band from what, age? 12?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah. My mom and dad were driving around to gigs, and then I quit school at 15 and was playing five nights a week.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

In Australia?

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Like, what was the situation? Bars.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They didn't have that. I never had that issue with being underage and playing in a bar.

[Marc Maron]

Well, maybe they have different rules in Australia.

[Keith Urban]

I don't know if they just look the other way.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Or whatever. But I never had any issues.

[Marc Maron]

All you guys kids, huh?

[Keith Urban]

No, it was a family band, so it's mom, dad, and their two sons.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And I joined that band and then moved in with that family. Anyway, the plot thickens. But I was. So this band would play without me during the week.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Because I'm in school.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Keith Urban]

And I said to my mom, you know, you can legally leave school when you turn 15.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

So I'm going to turn 15 this October.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

I would like to leave school and be playing five nights a week in the band. And she's like, right.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And I'm like, but Because I suck at school and I'm already doing what you know I'm going to be doing for the rest of my life. It's not some little passing phase I'm in.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I'm in it.

[Keith Urban]

Been doing it since I was 6. This is what I do. Just let me get out of school and join this band. She's like, okay. So I turned 15 and I was out of there.

[Marc Maron]

What'd your dad say?

[Keith Urban]

He was totally supportive. He's a drummer.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

He's like, yeah, you suck.

[Marc Maron]

Were they together?

[Keith Urban]

Like, that's terrible.

[Marc Maron]

At school, were they together? Yeah. Are they still.

[Keith Urban]

My dad passed away about seven, eight years ago.

[Marc Maron]

Sorry.

[Keith Urban]

And then my mom's still alive and thriving.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, that's good.

[Keith Urban]

She's great. 82.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, I got all her brain.

[Keith Urban]

Oh, God, she's sharp as attack. Well, that's good.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's good.

[Keith Urban]

Amazing.

[Marc Maron]

All right. So what's your mom yeah, they're both around. My dad's losing it mentally, and my mom's okay. 86.

[Keith Urban]

Wow. Okay.

[Marc Maron]

And it's funny about that, is that, like, people are like, oh, you got dementia. I'm like, he's old. You're gonna. You know, something's gonna go right. You know what I mean? I mean, 86, that's old. Yeah. For some reason, people are always sort of. He's not old anymore. No, it's old, right?

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

80 anything.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, they made it. Yeah, they made it.

[Keith Urban]

Unless you're 80 something and then you say it's not old.

[Marc Maron]

Right. Well, you gotta hold on to hope. You know what I mean?

[Keith Urban]

That's right.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, nobody, anytime. You and your mom.

[Keith Urban]

How's your mom?

[Marc Maron]

She's all right. Yeah. I mean, she's 80. I think she's 82. Her brain's okay physically. She's a little. A little hobbled, but she's still plugging away.

[Keith Urban]

Do they listen to your podcast all the time?

[Marc Maron]

My dad does.

[Keith Urban]

Hi, guys.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Oh, there you go. I'm sure my dad's wife loves you. She's a big country person.

[Keith Urban]

Thank you.

[Marc Maron]

She's actually got a. She's got a. She had a quilt made of all her Willie Nelson concert T shirts.

[Keith Urban]

No.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, it's on their bed. It's just a quilt made out of country concert T shirts. She loves. She.

[Keith Urban]

Does she actually make it?

[Marc Maron]

No. There was a company that would do that. They would turn and oddly, those T shirts, after a certain amount of years, become more valuable. There. There Collector's market of that.

[Keith Urban]

Have you been to Fred Siegel?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, exactly. It's weird. I grew up in New Mexico, and, you know, country music was sort of off to the side to me, you know. But, you know, the state fair, they'd always have the guys playing Wayland and everybody else.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But I grew up this rock and roll guy, you know, just rock guy.

[Keith Urban]

Who did you listen to?

[Marc Maron]

Well, when I was. I graduated high school in 81, so I had a strange kind of. Like, I knew a guy at a record store next to where I worked at a restaurant, and he was kind of a. There were two guys that worked there that kind of defined. Like, one guy was this avant garde weirdo who turned me on to, like, Eno. Some of the Bowie stuff, like, some of the, like, the Residents, like, weird, you know, Fred Frith noise music and all that. So that was. I knew that existed.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And I was sort of, you know, mind blown by that. And then another guy turned me on to all the soul music, maybe a mixtape of all the Motown guys and all that. But when I was in high school, it was like. Yeah, so was the crashing. You know, it was. I was in high school when the last Zeppelin record came out.

[Keith Urban]

Wow.

[Marc Maron]

And I was in high school when punk rock sort of started to happen. But new wave kind of pushed disco out. But for me, I mean, I listen to all kinds of stuff, but it was, you know, we were all pretty. Like, when Van Halen's first album came out, it kind of changed the planet. Like, it was just when that out. And it came out pretty near when Knopf was when. Yeah. So, like, you know, you'd walk out into the parking lot and guys with their cars, the doors open and just cranking. Eruption. And, you know, like, it was. It was game changing. Foreigner was around.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But, you know, for me, it was Zeppelin. A lot of Zeppelin. And then, like, it kind of evolved, you know, I, like. I was a big blues head, too. I got turned onto the blues really early on.

[Keith Urban]

It's a great mix.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah, early. I had some John Mayo records. The Stones. Big Stones guy. Yeah, Iggy. But that was later. But country came later and I just. I became sort of a George Jones freak. And then I kind of got hip to all the other stuff.

[Keith Urban]

What'd you like about George?

[Marc Maron]

Well, no one sings like that guy.

[Keith Urban]

That's true.

[Marc Maron]

Do you know what I mean? Like, you know, outside of everything else.

[Keith Urban]

Like just lives like that guy.

[Marc Maron]

Well, that's for sure. I mean, I think people try. And I don't do it on purpose, but they usually don't get as far as he did with it. Yeah. It's a rare guy that ends up on a tractor, you know, driving. Because his wife took the car away. Driving into town on a tractor to get a bottle of booze.

[Keith Urban]

And that's the thing about so many of those artists.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

They sing like that because it's their lifestyle.

[Marc Maron]

Right. But he had some sort of weird, hilly, kind of almost Appalachian phrasing. Because I know he was a Hank Williams guy because he did that Hank record, right?

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But there's something about his phrasing that is more. It's pure country. It's almost like you come out of the Carter Family and that stuff and you get some of that hill music in flux. But he seemed to have. It seemed to be at the heart of him a different type of phrase.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah. It's almost like some of the. Dare I say the sort of Perry Como type, like crooner. Crooners. He sounds like a crooner and a bluegrass cat.

[Marc Maron]

That's right.

[Keith Urban]

Fused together.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. But he hit those weird notes. Like there's something so specific about it. Like that song, he Stopped Loving Her Today, which is a bigger production. But like, you know, you try to cover that song and you better be very sensitive to his phrasing or it's not going to work.

[Keith Urban]

No, it's amazing. You just don't do it. Just. Just do your own thing. Just change the whole song.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I tried it once.

[Keith Urban]

Did you?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I just.

[Keith Urban]

It's one of the greatest songs ever written.

[Marc Maron]

Like I. When I played that song for somebody for the first time and I'm like. Just listen. Like I'm crying. I'm starting to cry. Think about it. Like, it's one of those songs where every time I listen to it, I'm like, oh, my God, it's fucking beautiful.

[Keith Urban]

It really is.

[Marc Maron]

Like, when they're.

[Keith Urban]

What an amazing concept for a song.

[Marc Maron]

I mean. I mean, that's the thing about country. It's all like, you know, it's like when I listen to your records, like in a lot of ways, you know, country is going to evolve. How it's going to evolve, but musically it's going to evolve how it's going to evolve. But it stays within the country parameters a bit though. It's very poppy now, but it's really about the words. Right. I mean, it's like, it's. The whole thing is like his. A lot of rock. I don't even know what the they're saying.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

It's rift driven.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But like country, you got to lock into the emotional thing.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah. Except, you know, I. I've grow. I love. I'm in the same boat. I grew up with a lot of rock. I loved the sound and the feeling.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

More than the specific meaning of certain.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, me too. I. I barely listen to words sometimes. You know what I mean?

[Keith Urban]

Sorry, what'd you say? Yeah, I think because it's guys in general. I don't mean to generalize, but it's. You know, my dad wouldn't know what was being said.

[Marc Maron]

He just liked the vibe.

[Keith Urban]

The beat. The vibe. The feeling.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And then my mom only knew what was being said.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

So.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Well, that's. I guess that's the nature of it and that's why, I guess you get a lot of. Maybe I'm generalizing, but it seems like some singer songwriter stuff is sort of for the ladies like it more than the guys like it.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Am I wrong. What's your audience like? What do you know about it?

[Keith Urban]

It's always been a lot of girls. For sure. Yeah. Except when we play. Although I think if there's a, if there's guys in the audience, almost all of them are guitar players.

[Marc Maron]

Pretty much they're just waiting for the solo.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Marc Maron]

They bring their girlfriends and the girlfriends are singing along and they're like, all right, here we go.

[Keith Urban]

I call them the reluctant boyfriends because I see them out in the crowd less so now than early in my career. Early in my career, I'd look out in the arena, I'd see all these guys with their arms folded and you can tell, they're like, yeah, she seems happy. You know, I'm going to get laid tonight. At least. Thank God. I'm just going to put up with this guy for the next two hours. And then I'd watch them slowly, like, look up like, wow. Actually, this is not, you know, then it would change completely and they'd walk out. Very, very different. But they always start. The sort of reluctant guy who got dragged along to the concert. Yeah, I mean, I get it, I get it. Totally.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Well, I mean, it's, it's, it's still a fine market to have the, the ladies like you.

[Keith Urban]

Oh, anybody. Traditionally, it's like, anybody like me, like.

[Marc Maron]

As a comic, you know, later in my career, for some reason, I've started to attract a lot of middle aged women and I get those reluctant guys in my audience going like, I do a joke about. I go, a third of you are hardcore fans. And then there's like, so you're sitting out there knowing about me and everything I talk about, and then another 30 year sitting there going like, so this is the guy, huh? You know? Right, right, right. But, you know, it's fine with me.

[Keith Urban]

I guess I get a lot of people in Vegas that it's a hard place to play sometimes for me because.

[Marc Maron]

I never go there.

[Keith Urban]

Because they're curiosity people.

[Marc Maron]

Well, they're also just people. Like, I've lost enough money. What's going on in here? I need to take a break from table.

[Keith Urban]

I hope this guy can cheer me up. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, but I also embrace the challenge of people sort of sitting there going, all right, let's see what this guy does.

[Marc Maron]

But, you know, you, I mean, it's not, you know, you've got a big production element. You know, you're not going up there like raw, you know what I mean? You know, you're putting on a show.

[Keith Urban]

Well, weirdly enough, this show that we're doing right now in Vegas, which we're coming back in February to do another five shows, actually starts out with just me and a fluorescent light above my head playing an acoustic guitar straight up.

[Marc Maron]

No slide, just picking nothing, just picking.

[Keith Urban]

Just literally nothing. Just.

[Marc Maron]

That's nice. Bring them in.

[Keith Urban]

It's raw. Yeah, it's like. That's where we start.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I mean, you did a lot of kind of bluesy stuff early on, you know, some of the. Some of the stuff was kind of acoustic heavy.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know. Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

When I say it's acoustic, it's a. I have a particular style that sounds like I'm. I got a kick drum underneath me. It's very thump driven.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, with your hand, with your thumb.

[Keith Urban]

Just a rhythmic style.

[Marc Maron]

Are you aware of your tone?

[Keith Urban]

I hope so.

[Marc Maron]

But is there a point where you land on it and you're like, this.

[Keith Urban]

Is it for a week? Yeah, it's like. It's like the little pedals, right? The little effects pedals, you know, this is the ultimate effects pedal. And then all the other guitarists hear about that and they run out and get one and they're like, hey, I got one of these. And then the guy goes, oh, no, that was last week. This is the shit this week. It's like never ends.

[Marc Maron]

What kind of pedals do you use this week? Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Just a bunch of different Overdose, but, you know, tube screamers and.

[Marc Maron]

Rad.

[Keith Urban]

Just a little tube screamer. Yeah, it's an old two screamer. Old rat.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

You know, so go to.

[Marc Maron]

But nothing like a panel of like. Some guys have like a keyboard down there.

[Keith Urban]

I don't have any. Anything at my feet. My tech just engages a couple of different things.

[Marc Maron]

Have you heard about that Neil Young thing that the guy built for him?

[Keith Urban]

Yes. That turns the microphones from the out from one amp to the next, doesn't it? Right.

[Marc Maron]

Crazy.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I interviewed him once and like, you know, there's something very funny about that guy because no one sounds like him.

[Keith Urban]

No.

[Marc Maron]

And amazing. And it's almost timeless somehow. His production for most of the records you listen to it, it transcends time.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Because production wise, he's not making a mess of things. There's something about him that's just this timeless guy.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But I asked him about the amps and he's like. Yeah, it's. It's like he plays that old custom that's been the deluxe that's been painted black, and he's got all these old amps kind of rigged up. And he doesn't even know if they're going to make it through a show.

[Keith Urban]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

And that's part of his thing.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Like, I don't know. I don't know if we're going to pull it off because that whole thing might melt down. This Frankenstein of amps.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Got to respect that. Right?

[Keith Urban]

Oh, I love it.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, my God.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah. It's primal.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

That's why it's primal.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Even the way he plays everything about Neil is primal.

[Marc Maron]

All right, so, like, tell me. Let's move on from this. Like the family. What are you playing with? The family.

[Keith Urban]

What do you mean? The family.

[Marc Maron]

The family band. When you're starting out, you as a guitar.

[Keith Urban]

Going back to when I was 15 and I joined the family band.

[Marc Maron]

Yes.

[Keith Urban]

I can't remember probably. I was in a bit. Well, no, I had a Fenta twin Fender twin reverb.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Keith Urban]

I bought it when I got my Strat.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

I just went, okay.

[Marc Maron]

They're hard to dirty up.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah. But this thing was. It's. It was the 125 watt thing. It weighed a ton.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

So heavy.

[Marc Maron]

Did it have the JBLs in it or just the other?

[Keith Urban]

That would have, I guess, whatever, stock ones. But it was just stupid.

[Marc Maron]

It was my first amp, too.

[Keith Urban]

Wow.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. But for some reason I bought the one or had my. You know, it was gifted. The one with the JBLs, which. It was impossible. The dirty up.

[Keith Urban]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

It had. It had a gain that you could pull out.

[Keith Urban]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

A knob, get you a little something.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah. And I think at the time I probably have on this little orange distortion boss distortion. DS1 or something. That was it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

My tone was like, back then.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. It's a weird thing about tone. I don't think I really knew about it until like, you know, less than 10 years ago. Like, what you're really gunning for. And then people say tone is in the fingers. Is that true?

[Keith Urban]

What's in everything?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

You touch your tone. You.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I mean.

[Keith Urban]

I mean your, your. Your approach, your. The way you hear things. But I said to a good buddy of mine, Tom Bukovac, one time, many years ago, I was like, man, I'm just struggling with my tone on stage. I just. I know what I'm reaching for and I can't. I can't get right. He goes, well, who. You know, what kind of players do you like?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And I'm like, yeah. Clapton, Gilmore, Hoffler.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Billy Gibbons. I'm rattling off all the. All the icons Right. He goes, well, man, you know what they got in common? I'm like, what? He goes, they don't move. And he goes, you're running all around the stage, everywhere. He's like, do you want great tone or do you want to fucking run everywhere? I'm like, can I do both?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. So that was. They kind of upped the ante on the equation you were trying to solve.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah. But it did make a lot of sense.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

That when I. If I stand still at soundcheck, my tone is always better than it is at night.

[Marc Maron]

Is that because you hear it differently or is it because I'm not moving? So.

[Keith Urban]

Because I can focus and play. Pocket it. Attack the string. Nicely. Delicate.

[Marc Maron]

So did it change your approach to performance? Do you now stop and stand still when you solo?

[Keith Urban]

Not to that degree, but I do play louder with more headroom so I can attack more gently and not play aggressively.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, Billy Givens. How great is that guy? It's so funny because Billy and Gilmore are direct. Sort of Peter Green disciples.

[Keith Urban]

Yep.

[Marc Maron]

And like, you know, it's that minor boot or that they can go in between the major and minor. It's like, it's a unique thing. Clapton's. Clapton. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like Peter Green to me is like a God. I don't know. You know, listening to those original Fleetwood Mac things was crazy.

[Keith Urban]

Oh, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Those licks.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And that Gilmore is all about that.

[Keith Urban]

I love Gilmore.

[Marc Maron]

Do you know?

[Keith Urban]

I don't know him. No. He's definitely one of my all time heroes.

[Marc Maron]

Right?

[Keith Urban]

Oh, God, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

That black Strat.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Well, you. So, okay, so this like. So you're running around with this family and then you move in with them.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So you had enough of your parents, dad?

[Keith Urban]

Well, we lived like an hour and a half away from the city.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

We lived out in the farm. And so I'm like, I'll just move with the family. Yeah. A lot easier.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Because I can't drive.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

15, so.

[Marc Maron]

But things weren't horrible at home. You didn't have to leave.

[Keith Urban]

Didn't have to leave. I just wanted to. But it was great. It's great not having to live at home at 15. Fantastic.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. But, yeah, but you're. Now you're like, you. You drop out of school, you're. You're not living at home. So now you're just living the life of a musician. But you are in some family's house.

[Keith Urban]

I am.

[Marc Maron]

So, yeah. There must have been some rules.

[Keith Urban]

There was a little bit of structure, for sure. Yeah. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

You know, chores and stuff like that.

[Marc Maron]

So how long does it take for you to kind of like, land into the mode of. Of, you know, writing original music and then, you know, with a real goal of getting out and recording, I drifted.

[Keith Urban]

In and out of all kinds of different bands. Duos, trios.

[Marc Maron]

Any hard rock bands?

[Keith Urban]

One hard rock band called Fractured Mirror.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. What they play?

[Keith Urban]

Saxon, Judas Priest, Scorpions, Iron Maiden.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, was that fun to play for you?

[Keith Urban]

It was for the 10 seconds I was in the band. Yeah. I, I. So I had my Strat.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Mentioned my Candy Apple Strat. I ripped the pickup out, put a humbucker on the lead. Yeah. Because I. I was. I just discovered Iron Maiden and I became obsessed with Dave Murray, so it wasn't fat enough. Electric. Yeah. Someone ripped that single coil out.

[Marc Maron]

Yes.

[Keith Urban]

Put a humbucker in.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And then I really wished I'd had a Marshall stack.

[Marc Maron]

Needed that.

[Keith Urban]

So I get a call from this band. The lead singer has. Plays guitar and has a Marshall stack, and he goes, I don't play guitar. I just want to be up front and be a singer.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, you.

[Keith Urban]

If you join that band, you can use my Marshall. I'm like, I'm in heaven. So I joined this band, but at the same time, I just discovered a guy called Ricky Skaggs.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, sure. Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And. And Albert Lee, who was chicken picking.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, my God.

[Keith Urban]

Just the chicken picking king.

[Marc Maron]

That guy's like, that's incredible.

[Keith Urban]

So good. Right?

[Marc Maron]

Oh, my God.

[Keith Urban]

So I'm into Iron Maiden and Recovery Skaggs at the exact same time.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, it's a crossroads, man.

[Keith Urban]

Massive identity crisis. So I'm in this. I'm in this band, we plan a gig, they throw me a solo, and through my humbucked Strat, through the Devil's Tack Marshall, I ripped this chicken pick and distorted. This guy looks at me like, what the are you doing? You know, they fired me.

[Marc Maron]

So when do you just solidly land in country then?

[Keith Urban]

Well, I was already in it. I just had to figure out what my blend of it was. Yeah, that's really it.

[Marc Maron]

And then you got that. That first band together that you did that second record with the Ranch or the.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah, the pivotal. The pivotal thing that happened to me was in the late 80s, I went. I was. I got. I discovered John Mellencamp and really love what he was doing.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Keith Urban]

And I went and saw his concert.

[Marc Maron]

In Sydney or somewhere in Brisbane. Oh, Brisbane.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah. And it was literally like an epiphany, this concert. And it wasn't because I'll just frame It. So I walk into this arena, and here's Mellencamp.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

You know, he's got the most badass rock rhythm section.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Bass, drums, electric guitar, just screaming.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Then he's got this girl on fiddle.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

He's got a dude on accordion.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And I'm like, what is this? What is this music?

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Keith Urban]

It's like everything I love. And it was literally like this light bulb went, right, so just do your own thing. And I just walked out of there with total clarity on not doing what John did, but taking his ethos.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Keith Urban]

His approach.

[Marc Maron]

It's so funny because the generation before you had that experience with the band.

[Keith Urban]

For sure. Right, for sure. What a great example.

[Marc Maron]

It's a similar idea that. This sort of integration of a purely Americana music.

[Keith Urban]

Yep.

[Marc Maron]

Wow.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So you were lit up. And had you. Had you done any records before?

[Keith Urban]

Hadn't done any records. I really. I was a couple of years out from doing my first record, so.

[Marc Maron]

Is it Cougar, like, Little Pink Houses? Cougar?

[Keith Urban]

No, it was Lonesome Jubilee, so late 80s.

[Marc Maron]

It's so funny. I saw. I saw John Mellencamp. John Cougar, he was called, and I saw him touring, you know, on his first record in the late 70s, and he was opening for Richie Blackmore's Rainbow.

[Keith Urban]

No way, dude.

[Marc Maron]

My.

[Keith Urban]

That would have been great.

[Marc Maron]

My buddy and I drove all the way to Denver because he was a Blackmore freak. And I was like, oh, well, let's just go. I'll go with him.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And when Cougar came out, I'm like, well, this is my kind of music. Like, I thought he was amazing.

[Keith Urban]

Oh, he's amazing.

[Marc Maron]

And I bought that first record, and I still think it's a great record.

[Keith Urban]

He's a badass. He's. He. I don't know what. Why he doesn't get more cred. Because he's a badass.

[Marc Maron]

Because he's a cranky fuck.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah, but, I mean, I talked to him. Morrison. He didn't get the shit.

[Marc Maron]

No, but look, I. But Cougar did fine with album.

[Keith Urban]

I know, but.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah, but he should get more cred than he does because he's a. And his band was insanely great.

[Marc Maron]

When I interviewed him, I was nervous because he, like, Yeah, I was like, I know. Cranky, you know, but, you know, I got him. I got him around. He was right. As long as I let him smoke, he was good.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. He wanted me to tell anybody, but he was good with it.

[Keith Urban]

I told him when I got to meet Him. I told him that story that bumped him.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Keith Urban]

This young me.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And I said. And I walked out of that concert going, I know what to do now. Go do my own thing. And John was like, man, it's so good that you got it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Because most kids walk out and go, I'm going to do that.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Keith Urban]

And John's like, that's not the point.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Keith Urban]

Don't do what I'm doing. I'm already doing it.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, so nice. He was gracious.

[Keith Urban]

Do your thing.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Keith Urban]

He was great. I get along great with John.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. So, all right. So once you start doing your own thing, it locks in. You get it. Like you saw some records in Australia.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah. Sold a few records in Australia and had a few singles down there on the country charts.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Got a road crew and was like building the band. And here we go, Here we go. I want to come to Nashville.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, you have to, because you're looking at those records. You're looking at those records.

[Keith Urban]

It's also. We got a. You got a limited. You got a limited ceiling in Australia. No matter who you are, what you do, you're only going to get to go so far and then that's it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And then you'd just be cycling around like AC dc. So. Well, they had to break out. I know they had to go. All of them have to go. Actors, all of them.

[Marc Maron]

But what a great band. AC dc.

[Keith Urban]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Did you. I mean, you were too. You were too young, probably when they were still in Australia.

[Keith Urban]

Oh, yeah, Yeah. I didn't know. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, I love that guy's guitar playing. He's right up there.

[Keith Urban]

Astounding. One of the. One of the rare guys who can run around the stage and sound amazing. Him and Eddie. It's a small list.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Not a lot of them.

[Marc Maron]

So when you get to Nashville, like, how does that work? Because, like, I noticed. Well, we can get to it. So you. You've got a bit of a rep. You've got a couple of hits somewhere else and you go with you. Do you take your band in Nashville?

[Keith Urban]

I took. I couldn't. I didn't have any money, so I just went. I had a five piece band.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

So what's the minimum? I could take bass and drums.

[Marc Maron]

Sure.

[Keith Urban]

And be a three piece. Okay. So we go to Nashville. We're a three piece band.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

My rhythm guitarist and keyboard player, I left behind. They were my two singers. So I got this three piece band with no, no singer. It's just me.

[Marc Maron]

Were you confident?

[Keith Urban]

Yeah, Blind. Blind faith. Yeah, Blind faith in what I was.

[Marc Maron]

Doing and how much. And you were writing all your own songs already?

[Keith Urban]

No, I was co. Writing and, you know, finding some songs written and things like that, but doing lots of covers still.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Trying to get in the door.

[Marc Maron]

Right, sure.

[Keith Urban]

You know.

[Marc Maron]

So what happens when you get there?

[Keith Urban]

To Nashville?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

A real mix of things. It was. It's a. It's a very. There's a deceptively tough town.

[Marc Maron]

What year is this?

[Keith Urban]

My early 90s.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Keith Urban]

So 90, 91, 92.

[Marc Maron]

So the. The old guard is kind of still around and country's already sort of changing in terms of production.

[Keith Urban]

Not. Not really, no. And it certainly wasn't where I was at.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

I was way out of step.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Completely.

[Marc Maron]

In what way?

[Keith Urban]

Well, I'm. I'm in a three piece band.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Playing pretty raw, spirited pub.

[Marc Maron]

Country.

[Keith Urban]

Pub rock, country, fusion stuff.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

No one knew what the hell to make of it, huh. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So, like there. There was a. It was too much. Too much rock, you think or.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Okay. All right. And then. Then what happens? How does it turn?

[Keith Urban]

Just. I just kept writing and writing and just chipping away. Chipping away.

[Marc Maron]

Was there a point where someone said, like, all right, this guy gets a shot. What?

[Keith Urban]

So this guy used to. This guy called Cliff Aldrich.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Who worked for Sony Records.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Would come out and see our band play all the time.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And I came off stage one night and I said, cliff, you're here every time we play.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And he goes, yeah, man, I love you guys. And I'm like, how come we can't get signed? He goes, I'm the only one who loves you. I'm like, but what? I said to him, what am I doing wrong, Cliff? What am I doing wrong? And he said, you're doing nothing wrong. You're just really unique. And it's going to be your biggest curse until it becomes your greatest blessing. And whatever that was meant to mean that night, holy shit. It went right into the core of me. And it was. What I heard in that moment was, you're totally unlike anything, so no one knows what the hell to do with you, but stay the course. Stay the course. It's going to work. Just hang in there. And when it does, it'll be because you're not like anybody else.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, that's fucking good.

[Keith Urban]

It was amazing.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I mean, and also it's interesting because with music, it's one of those art forms where you can make adjustments if you're willing to sacrifice Something like, you can say, like, we can change this or that and try to be more appealing to this or that. You know, I can't do that as a comic, really, as a singular act. But it seems like with music, you know, you can kind of adapt or try to. And that's where people lose themselves.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah. But you could do it in the form of gig. Right. If you went to a corporate gig, you'd have to read the room and go, what kind of stuff is not going to work here?

[Marc Maron]

Well, you know what I don't do?

[Keith Urban]

What corporate gig?

[Marc Maron]

It's like, that's not for me. I can't. I won't even go to fucking Vegas. Like, you know, I know I'm kind of a buzzkill as a comic. You know, I'm not. I'm not. Anyway, I'm not a lot of people's idea of a great night out.

[Keith Urban]

Okay. So when you walk into any room you're playing or performing in.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Does the room matter to you or you just going to do what you do?

[Marc Maron]

Well, it does. And there. There are things that, like, there's a. I think it's not unlike music. There. There's a room where I can, you know, feel comfortable enough to be vulnerable and riff and do stuff that might be a little more challenging in terms of, like, punchline structure. But then I know I have a good, you know, half hour of jokes that are going to land no matter what. But I. When I do them, I. I kind of feel like, you know, I know this works and, you know, I can't really offer up my whole self here because these people aren't necessarily here to see me. It's just a night of comedy.

[Keith Urban]

Right. I see.

[Marc Maron]

So I gotta do the job.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Whereas if I got a room full of my people, who the fuck knows what's gonna happen? I, you know, I have a lot more freedom creatively for sure. But it's all me.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I just know some things are a little more palatable.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And it's better when people know when a joke is over.

[Keith Urban]

So that right there.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Is a good example of what I was navigating in Nashville.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Keith Urban]

If Nashville was the room.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

I'm like, it's all me. I've got many, many parts of me.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Keith Urban]

What would be the most logical ones to use right now?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And which ones? Let's put. Put those up. I always say this. It's like meeting your girlfriend's parents for the first time.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Keith Urban]

Is that the real you?

[Marc Maron]

No.

[Keith Urban]

Well, it's One of them, sure. But it's the one you need right now to make sure that mom and dad are cool. Yeah, I guess they like you.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. But sometimes that guy breaks down in their eyes eventually.

[Keith Urban]

Well, that's.

[Marc Maron]

That wasn't. That wasn't really him. It turns out that we met. This guy's a fucking asshole.

[Keith Urban]

Right. But you got to get in the door.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

You got to get some traction.

[Marc Maron]

And it's hard to sell the asshole. You know what I mean? Like, you know, if you're really.

[Keith Urban]

Oh. I look back at what I was doing and I'm like, no wonder nobody signed me.

[Marc Maron]

Really? Like how? Like.

[Keith Urban]

Because I had hair like, long ass hair.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

I was wearing like a. Like an open. I look like it. I look like I should be in like Sound garden.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

I just had long chains and it's the 90s.

[Marc Maron]

Sure.

[Keith Urban]

I'm just looking more grunge than anything.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

So out of place.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Keith Urban]

Like ridiculous.

[Marc Maron]

So right away they're like this. He's not of us.

[Keith Urban]

He didn't sound like us. He didn't speak like us.

[Marc Maron]

So when. How's the break Happen? Happen. Which was the first album you did in Nashville? The first self titled.

[Keith Urban]

So I did. I did an album with my band called the Ranch. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I listened to that. Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Oh, you're the one. So we. That was in 1990s. We've been looking for. Why are you everywhere?

[Marc Maron]

I just did it yesterday, so I. I missed it when it.

[Keith Urban]

That's sounds about right.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Where'd this guy start? But it's a good record.

[Keith Urban]

Thank you.

[Marc Maron]

Right. I mean, it's.

[Keith Urban]

It's raw and it is what it is.

[Marc Maron]

I like raw.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah. Well, it's probably more. It's actually more suited now than it was back in 1997.

[Marc Maron]

Interesting when we put it out, but what are you thinking about guys like, you know, like is. You know, is Tweety on your radar? Is like Jeff Tweedy. Yeah. Steve Earle on the radar then?

[Keith Urban]

They all are. Yeah. In terms of, like, Guitar Town was an amazing record.

[Marc Maron]

It's a great record. But he couldn't. Like Nashville didn't give a fuck about him either.

[Keith Urban]

Or Willie.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Waylon.

[Marc Maron]

All the guys I love, all the.

[Keith Urban]

Guys I love for the same reason. They don't know what to do with them.

[Marc Maron]

But oddly, Willie kind of fit in there as a songwriter. But when he decided to like, you know, do the music he wanted to do.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know, he had to carve out that. That zone.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Him and Waylon totally In what, the early 70s? Yeah, but that changed everything.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah, but I, you know, but I also. If you've moved it forward, I also love Dwight Yoakam and Katie Lang.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Keith Urban]

There's two complete outsiders trying to figure out how to get accepted in Nashville.

[Marc Maron]

But oddly, both of them were doing, you know, what was only outdated because country had moved on. Like the orchestrations. They were doing what country music was supposed to do.

[Keith Urban]

There was a real. It's interesting with both of them because they have a little punk undercurrent thing, especially on their early records. Dwight definitely had a punk undercurrent rawness about him, which is the Bakersfield influence. And Katie's was just straight. She looked like she was a punk.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Keith Urban]

On the first record. Absolute torch and twang. And I thought, man, if these guys can get any kind of traction, I'm.

[Marc Maron]

Thinking of Lyle Lovett.

[Keith Urban]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

It was sort of like old timey, you know, kind of like dance hall. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Right.

[Keith Urban]

But, you know, there was. I just. I stayed the course. There's plenty of artists that have been in the same position, a different version of it, but the same struggle of how do I get accepted in town and not lose myself.

[Marc Maron]

So. But did you. You aligned yourself with a producer, right. At some point, like. So Golden Road or. What's the first Nashville record? Keith Urban.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah. The Solar Record in 1999. Who produced that guy called Matt Rollings.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Keith Urban]

Great keyboard player. Session player.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. So were you doing sessions?

[Keith Urban]

I wasn't doing any sessions, but I'd been put with all the name producers in town. A big chunk of them.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

As my label was trying to figure out how.

[Marc Maron]

Any old timers.

[Keith Urban]

Well, a couple. One very legendary guy that was put with us when I was with the Ranch.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

The Warner Brothers, who I signed with at the time.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Said, well, let's put you with this guy and see what happens.

[Marc Maron]

Who was that?

[Keith Urban]

I'm not gonna name his name.

[Marc Maron]

Okay. Okay.

[Keith Urban]

The reason why is. Cause this fucking guy.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

He was like the court appointed attorney. Right. That's what it was like. It's like, you know, behind the scenes, the label was like, listen, can you just go and produce this band? He's like, ah, yeah, right. Okay.

[Marc Maron]

I could use the scratch.

[Keith Urban]

Exactly. So he's sitting in the control room and we track our song and we. I come in and he says to me, all right, boys, what you want as a overdub? Fiddle or steel? Literally, this is like, you can't make this up.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And I go, I'm Sorry, what? He goes, you want fiddle or steel?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And I said, I don't want either fiddle or steel on this track. It doesn't need any of that. He goes, I don't make the fucking rules. Listen, fiddle or steel, you decide. I couldn't give a shit. And I was like, I don't want fiddle or steel on this record if they don't need it. And he goes, kid, how many number ones have you produced? And I went, oh, my God. You didn't just say. People don't say. That's in movies and shit. Nobody actually says that. You literally just said that. Yeah, I've produced none. And you know that. And. What a dumbass thing to say to me.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And I said, I've produced none. And. And I'm not putting fucking. And I just. I walked out of there.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Out of the session.

[Marc Maron]

And that was the last day.

[Keith Urban]

That was the last I saw with that guy.

[Marc Maron]

It was one day. So. So. So then the guy you did land with, he. He was good.

[Keith Urban]

So Matt, you know, I came to the realization, what I need is a. I need a musician to produce me. I need a musician.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Because I got to put a band together in the studio. Like a proper session band.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

So Matt was great with that.

[Marc Maron]

Okay. Because he plays keyboard. Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And he was a muso. And he could talk to the musicians. As a musician.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Keith Urban]

Not as a guy that plays golf.

[Marc Maron]

Right. Yeah. And how many records you do with that guy?

[Keith Urban]

I did the first one with him.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And then somebody suggested I work with Dan Hough.

[Marc Maron]

Well, yeah, that's the interesting thing. Like, when did you first chart? Was it on the first Keith Urban record?

[Keith Urban]

Yeah, I had a. Yeah, it was good that it was steady. I think the first single was like top 15 or something. Like number 15 or something. And then the next single is like number four.

[Marc Maron]

So now you got juice.

[Keith Urban]

Now I got juice. And then my third single was my first number one.

[Marc Maron]

Which one? Which song?

[Keith Urban]

It's called but for the Grace of God.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Oddly enough, I wrote with two girls from the Go Go's. Really Very strange.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, well, that must have been nice for them in terms of like, you know, like the way music publishing works. It's great.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So they. If they're on there, they made money throughout their life.

[Keith Urban]

Oh, they did great. I mean, they'd already done great, but.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

That's funny. How'd you meet them?

[Keith Urban]

I was kind of quasi managed by Miles Copeland.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Keith Urban]

At the time.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And. And he said Charlotte Caffey and Jane Wheedling were coming to Nashville to write with people. And did I want to write with them?

[Marc Maron]

Why not?

[Keith Urban]

So. And all right.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

I don't know what we're going to write.

[Marc Maron]

And then you got a hit.

[Keith Urban]

We wrote number one song. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. So. So now things are rolling and you've got this guy, Dan Huff.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Who you did like five, six records with. Right.

[Keith Urban]

We just clicked another music. Right. Amazing guitar player.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Keith Urban]

And we just clicked in the studio. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And. And then you did a lot of hits with that guy.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Now what? Now I know you're sober. So when did that start to destroy you?

[Keith Urban]

What? Sobriety?

[Marc Maron]

Well, Look, I got 25, 26 years now, you know, and you know, the first five are tricky.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah. Because you don't know, but we don't tell anybody that.

[Marc Maron]

Well, you want, you want to be encouraging, but you know, if you tell somebody, like I heard a thing in the rooms once, don't kill yourself in the first five years because you'd be killing the wrong person.

[Keith Urban]

Oh, that's great. That's a great line.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Dude, what a great line.

[Marc Maron]

Uhuh.

[Keith Urban]

Holy.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

AA's full of great quotes, isn't it?

[Marc Maron]

Oh, the best. Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Oh my God.

[Marc Maron]

God doesn't wake up and think he's you. That's enough. Those are the ones that stick. They're. They're not the, you know, the recovery sponsored one, but I, you know, I like that one.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah, well, I heard that thing like, oh, it's a simple program for complicated people.

[Marc Maron]

Sure.

[Keith Urban]

Right. And my sponsor went, no, that's. It's a simple program for simple people who think they're complicated.

[Marc Maron]

That's good. That's a good one.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah, that's a level.

[Marc Maron]

So when do you first hit the wall with that?

[Keith Urban]

Oh, multiple times. I went to three different rehabs over the course of eight years.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I went. I mean, it took me. The first time I got sober was 88 and I was in rehab with the one time.

[Keith Urban]

How did, how did that happen? I mean, I mean, why did you go to rehab?

[Marc Maron]

Because I, I was out here, I was probably, what, 88. I was like 24 or 25. And I'd come out here after college and I was a doorman at the Comedy Store. I was doing a lot of coke with Kenison. And, and what ultimately happened to me was that I, I always chuckle.

[Keith Urban]

Someone says, a lot of coke. So I'm like, is there such a thing as a little bit of coke?

[Marc Maron]

Well, that's what you're. You Think your take it takes, you know, like, I just need a bump, you know, Five years later, I'm in debt and I don't. This is one bump, man. What's one bump gonna do? Ruin your life? Yeah, no, but I. I got. I went into psychosis because of the lack of sleep and all the blow. I was like hearing voices in my head. I was paranoid and I lost my mind. So that's what got me to rehab the first time.

[Keith Urban]

So you put yourself in?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah. I went back to New Mexico where I grew up. I told my parents, like, I'm in trouble. And I went in for 30 days, impatient. And then I would stay sober for like a year and a half here, a year and a half there. But. So that's 88. And now it's like what, 20, 24. And I got 25 years. So it took me, you know, 30 some odd, you know, almost 40 years to get that. Yeah, but in and out.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But it never got as bad. But it did take me about a year and a half to shake the paranoia.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

From the psychosis. All right. What happened to you?

[Keith Urban]

Paranoia is a bad thing.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, dude.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah, it. It's a bummer because it just ruins all the other fun parts of it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Because you have no control over.

[Keith Urban]

And you're like, could I get this without the paranoia?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Keith Urban]

It would be much fun.

[Marc Maron]

Even weed, Dude, I. You. I smoke weed every day. But eventually you're just sort of like, oh, they're all looking at me and they're like, no one gives a no. You just fall down this hole of yourself.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah. My f. The sponsor I have right now, the very first thing that when we met.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

We sat down, he goes, keith, I just want to start by saying, do you know how much people think of you? And I said, shit, how much? And he goes, rarely. I laughed my ass off. And I said, we are going to get along fucking great.

[Marc Maron]

I love that there's this sort of shattering of ego with the one line and it's like a relief.

[Keith Urban]

It was amazing. And I carry that very quote all the time in my head. And it just bit calms me.

[Marc Maron]

It's important.

[Keith Urban]

It's like my mantra.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. There was another. Some guy told me this one about a guy, he's sitting at home, you know, and he's spinning out and he calls a sponsor. It's like, you know, everything's fucked. My whole life is falling apart. You know, I'm never going to go anywhere. Like everything I did was a waste of Time. Everybody's like talking about me. And like, I don't, I don't know what the, is happening in. The sponsor goes, where are you? He goes, I'm at home, I'm on my couch. He goes, you're just a guy on a couch. And to me I'm like, that's it, man. Like, there's nothing more helpful for me to, than to realize that most of what my brain is doing, thinking on its own is, has nothing to do with reality.

[Keith Urban]

No.

[Marc Maron]

And like, you know, it's just this projection. So when I first got sober, you know, for real, I did it for a woman who brought me into the program and I was in love with her. So like that, you know, I knew I needed it, but it was this idea of like, you know, when I'd be spinning out. She goes, what color are your shoes? Where are we right now? What, you know, what are you doing with your hands? Like, anything to get you.

[Keith Urban]

That's great.

[Marc Maron]

Out of the head. So what, where were you, your career when you first tried to get sober?

[Keith Urban]

Late 90s.

[Marc Maron]

Oh yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And my girlfriend at the time.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

It's a long story, but the end of the night, let's put it that way, was me sitting at the front of the house that I was renting and my girlfriend had thrown me down the stairs and in disgust and blah, blah, blah. Literally. And so.

[Marc Maron]

And you were drunk enough to be thrown down the stairs.

[Keith Urban]

I did freebasing all afternoon.

[Marc Maron]

Oh yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Pretty much since noon now. It was like one in the morning, wide eyed. And I'm. And, and that. It's that thing where you're. You, you can't even get high anymore. Oh, it's just done.

[Marc Maron]

You locked, you're just locked up.

[Keith Urban]

I'm done. I'm done. And I'm sitting out on the front steps just going, what have I done with my life? You know, what's happened? And I. Down, down the street at one in the morning comes her car with the headlights off.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And behind her is a police car with his headlights off.

[Marc Maron]

Oh no.

[Keith Urban]

And I'm like, okay, this is how it happens. I remember it vividly. I was very calm.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And they quietly pull up to the front of the house and she and this cop walk across the front lawn.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And, and yeah. Anyway, he, he, he had me go sit in the car.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

While he and my girlfriend went downstairs and looked around at the house and all sorts of stuff. And he comes back up and he said, man, there's enough, plenty of stuff down there for Me to arrest you?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Obviously you're going to get deported.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

But your girlfriend seems to think that you maybe need help. What do you think I said? Yes, Yes, I need help.

[Marc Maron]

Good answer.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he said, so she took a big risk. He said this to me, she took a big risk. She saw me at the gas station, she pulled in, she said, can you come and help my boyfriend? I don't want him to get arrested. Yeah, I know you gotta do what you gotta do, but if you cannot arrest him. And somebody helped me get him into rehab.

[Marc Maron]

Caravan Street.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

So the cop basically went, she's gonna drive you home to. Because we were living somewhere else.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

She's going to drive you home and then tomorrow morning you're going to check into rehab.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And I'm going to call, make sure you're in there. Okay. Is that a deal? And I went, yep.

[Marc Maron]

That's the best story.

[Keith Urban]

That was the longest car ride home ever.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And the most awkward car ride. And all I can tell you in all honesty is the entire car ride home, I'm thinking, how do I get back to my dealer's house? Worst it's, it's two in the morning and all this gone down and that's all I can think about.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

If I can, I get out of this car at speed, do a little duck and roll.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And then head on back to town.

[Marc Maron]

Run into the woods. It's insanity, that drive to sort of like. Like when I got sober the first time, the dealer, you know, there was a big sort of out in the parking lot. I kind of had a meltdown in the Comedy Store and I'm breaking glasses and, you know, I'd been ostracized by all these guys that I was hanging out with. And I was freaking out. And the drug dealer pulls up and I'm like, I don't know. I don't know what I should do, man. And he goes, you gotta get out of here. And when the drug dealer tells you to go. Yeah, it's time to go.

[Keith Urban]

Oh, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

He's like, you got to do your own thing. I'm like, okay. And I just loaded up my car the next day and gave away a bunch. And I went and paid my drug dealer what I owed him and I left.

[Keith Urban]

Wow. Yeah. When your drug dealer says, you're cut off.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

It's not a good. You're in a good way.

[Marc Maron]

You gotta go. So how long did you stay sober?

[Keith Urban]

I went in just for the classic sort of 28 day program.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And I can't. And I'll. I always say this because it's kind of true. It's pretty true. I came out of there after 28 days and I went. Hard drugs are my problem.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Not drinking.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

I just couldn't not go near the free basing. That's. That'll take me down. Like I was having fun drinking. That ruined it.

[Marc Maron]

That was at 29 days. So you got that.

[Keith Urban]

So when I got it, just. Just go back to some nice calm drinking. Right. And that continued for about three years.

[Marc Maron]

Really. No, no. No coke.

[Keith Urban]

Oh. I mean, what I'm saying is that eased over into that area. But what I'm saying is of course I was going to head back to all that stuff within a year or so.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Just stay up and drink more. Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

But I didn't get into massive trouble right. Until probably 2003. And then same thing happened. Different girlfriend this time. Same thing. Are you rehab.

[Marc Maron]

But are you. Are you happening at that point by then?

[Keith Urban]

I am, yeah. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So you had a lot. You had more to lose.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So do you come from it? Alcoholism?

[Keith Urban]

My dad's alcoholic.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah?

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Is that what.

[Keith Urban]

God never got sober? No, he died of cancer, but. But he still, you know, died alcoholically, you know, never got sober.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah. It's. It's weird when you're the kid of it, you go either way. Either you never touch your stuff or you just honored your parents. No, they're. My dad's a bipolar guy. So you had this sort of same erratic behavior. My mom. My mom has other, you know, sort of compulsive issues.

[Keith Urban]

But do you have any of the bipolar?

[Marc Maron]

No. I thought I did, but I don't. I'm anxious. A lot of anxiety.

[Keith Urban]

Huh.

[Marc Maron]

A lot of dread. A lot of hyper. What I got out of it, I think, you know, if I really think about it, is that, you know, that kind of piece of shit at the center of the universe idea and sobriety. Like. Like if you have parents that are like into their selfish, pathologically selfish in whatever way, you kind of left a brought up to bring yourself up in a way emotionally. And I find that like, when you're a kid, you can never think your parents are fucked up because they're your parents.

[Keith Urban]

That's right.

[Marc Maron]

So you put in. In your mind, you put this other parent in your head and that is taking care of you. And that guy's a fucker. He's going to tell you you suck. You're not good enough, you know, You. So that was my experience. So I got that kind of like pathological self loathing and shame thing. What about you?

[Keith Urban]

Isn't that every comedian?

[Marc Maron]

I don't know now, now there's some. Sadly, comedies become more well adjusted, you know, as. As the business gets more intrusive in the sense that you can't really make any kind of mistakes publicly. A lot of people have shaped up and a lot of comics come from more of a sketch background. But those of us who are kind of lone wolves with emotional problems that couldn't fit in anywhere else, we're a dying breed. But there's a few around.

[Keith Urban]

Well, a particular species.

[Marc Maron]

Well, yeah, but I think show business in and of itself just to survive in it and make your way in it has become a bit more well adjusted at the, at the middle tier, maybe.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah. It's all relative to where you come from. Right.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

You're dealing with what you were. What. What sort of genetic lottery.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Ticket you got.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Not just genetics, but emotional.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I mean that's the thing.

[Keith Urban]

Well that even that can be hereditary though, that sort of trauma kind of stuff.

[Marc Maron]

That's right.

[Keith Urban]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. It's how you're wired and if your parents are of. Are. Are, you know, dealing with that from a legacy like from way back, it can keep going for generations. Yeah, all that shit.

[Keith Urban]

I have a song on my album called Break the Chain.

[Marc Maron]

The new one. Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Literally about that.

[Marc Maron]

It is, yeah. It's a pretty song. There's that guitar at the front. It's nice. Yeah, yeah. So you also. You were thinking about that.

[Keith Urban]

Well, I didn't know I was, but that the day we wrote that song, it came out and I was shocked that that came out that day because I wasn't thinking about it.

[Marc Maron]

Well, that's the hardest thing, isn't it? I would think. And you got kids is like, you know, how do I do it differently? You know, in a way that lands, you know, because you're always going to have the emotional liability. But how do you behave? Act as if. Or make contrary choices enough throughout a kid's childhood so they don't get the bug. Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

I mean, because we all come from some kind of dysfunction, every single one of us. We don't know it at the time.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Keith Urban]

To your point.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

We just adapt.

[Marc Maron]

Sure.

[Keith Urban]

Behavioral patterns to survive in that.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

We go out of that family of origin, go out into the world, keep attracting the same wacky people and we're like, what the hell is wrong with these people? Why do I keep Attracting these people.

[Marc Maron]

I know, I know.

[Keith Urban]

And then you realize, oh, it's because of how I'm behaving.

[Marc Maron]

But it's also because of how you're wired.

[Keith Urban]

But what I'm saying is, the way I'm behaving is because of how I'm wired. So that behavior attracts a certain kind of person. Of course.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

So I can't attract different people until I change my wiring.

[Marc Maron]

That's right.

[Keith Urban]

Can I break a pattern of some sort? Can I rewire my way of being.

[Marc Maron]

Well, yeah, well. But the downside of that is it's sort of like, you know, you do it and then you attract a different type of person. And, you know, about three months in, you're like, oh, this is fucking boring.

[Keith Urban]

Right? Can be.

[Marc Maron]

But I guess this is the way it is.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

No more crazy ladies. God damn it. It's hard to grow up, man.

[Keith Urban]

It's hard to grow up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. And I think that that's all relative to where my inner child lives.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

All of my personalities, they're all needed. Like, every stage in my life is needed in my construct.

[Marc Maron]

But the bad ones shouldn't be able to take over.

[Keith Urban]

They just need to be in context. But to ignore them, that's not going to happen. They'll remind me that they're there.

[Marc Maron]

Right, of course. And then you have to negotiate with them.

[Keith Urban]

Right?

[Marc Maron]

Yes. You're like, I got to take a break. I have to talk to myself. Dude, what the. We're not doing that. We're not.

[Keith Urban]

That's the beginning of. Have you seen Joker yet? The new Joker?

[Marc Maron]

No, I haven't seen the new one.

[Keith Urban]

It's a great. It's a great beginning. Because there's a cartoony thing. It's not giving anything away. Starts with a sort of a cartoon thing of Joker and his shadow.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Following him to a premiere.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, okay.

[Keith Urban]

And then the shadow does some other weird.

[Marc Maron]

Right, right, right.

[Keith Urban]

Already I'm in.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Keith Urban]

I'm into this movie.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Because the shadow is a fucking mysterious thing.

[Marc Maron]

It's the fucking worst, dude. You know? And the weird thing about the shadow is, like, you know, when you're fucked up, you think that's all people see, that you know, that the shadow's forefront.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So during all this time of going in and out of sobriety. But now you got like 20 years or something, right?

[Keith Urban]

I got 18.

[Marc Maron]

That's great.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But you're working. Yeah, but are you.

[Keith Urban]

I was working then, but were you.

[Marc Maron]

Working in the capacity where People were like, oh, fuck, what's going to be like today?

[Keith Urban]

I don't. Well, you'd have to ask them. But I was a pretty fairly functioning addict. Only in the sense. In the sense that I would get really messed up when I was off the road. It wasn't when I was on the road.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Keith Urban]

That kind of thing. I didn't go in the studio making records all messed up.

[Marc Maron]

Oh. It's just when you had too much time on your hands.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So this new record, the question I wanted to ask you in terms of how music works now is like you did like five or six records with Huff.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And then like all of a sudden, like the number of producers involved on any given album, I guess it's song to song, but there's a lot.

[Keith Urban]

So that happened because every single one of those producers was a writer on that song.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, so they want the credit.

[Keith Urban]

Well, we would do. Well, you know, making demos when you're in the writing room.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Has gotten to the point now where they can be the record.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Keith Urban]

Like that can be the record.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

That didn't used to be the case.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Keith Urban]

But now the sound of demos is like, well, shit, that just sounds like the record.

[Marc Maron]

Right. Because everyone's got the great equipment. Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

You know, if it's somebody like a Greg Wells or a Mike Elizondo or, you know, Benny Blanco, any of these guys that I've worked with as producers, they're also great producers.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Keith Urban]

So they're songwriters and producers. So of course I'm going to do the track with them. There's no reason to take it to someone else. That's how that ended up. So it wasn't like me with 12 different producers.

[Marc Maron]

It was song to song.

[Keith Urban]

Every single person that I'm with, if it's not Dan half, I guarantee that song was written by that producer with me and some other people.

[Marc Maron]

Right. Okay. So that's how it works now.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But back in the day you were like. It just was structured different because it was all on you to write the song or if you did a cover song or if you.

[Keith Urban]

I would co write the songs. But if I wrote the song with, you know, a track guy or somebody else, I would take it to Dan Hough and we'd put it with the band.

[Marc Maron]

So it's really. The technology is what changed everything pretty much. Because the demos were so good. Good.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah. That's what I think happened.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Keith Urban]

For me, it did anyway.

[Marc Maron]

But do you have like in those situations, do you have one Engineer. Or is it everybody different engineers with each time, really? So putting the record together is not like. Well, we knocked it out in three days.

[Keith Urban]

No, it's complicated. It's complicated.

[Marc Maron]

Like emailing files, you know, you got to download files and like, everything else.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So, like, in terms of, like. Because it seems like you do have your. Your own thing. So when you're doing all these different textures of sound, I mean, is it a challenge to make sure it sounds like you?

[Keith Urban]

I just. I like it. Well, I don't. I don't. I don't think I have to think about it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

You know, yeah. You just like, you. You have a style. If you're gonna write a joke or you're gonna do something, you don't have to make it sound like you.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Keith Urban]

It'll just be you. And if it's not, then you probably won't do it.

[Marc Maron]

Right. And how many of do you find you're better off when you write with other people?

[Keith Urban]

I like. I like co writing.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

I've always liked co writing and I've written some of my own 100% songs, but I love co writing.

[Marc Maron]

And what. And what's the relationship there? Is it the words or the music that is really comes out of co.

[Keith Urban]

Writing more so words for me. I'm a melody guy.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Every now and then. Certainly a song like Break the Chain, that was all my lyrics on the day that came. But that's unusual for me, you know, I like working with a great lyricist and then editing and tweaking and contributing collectively.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And on Break the Chain, like you said before, you didn't realize how personal it was until it came out of you.

[Keith Urban]

No.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. That's good.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah. I mean, it turned into a therapy session.

[Marc Maron]

That's good.

[Keith Urban]

I'd never met this guy before. Mark Sibley, who I wrote the song with, just walked in. Hi, I'm Keith. Yeah, Mark. And I'm like, that's an interesting guitar. He has this guitar. I pull it up, play this riff. And as I'm playing this riff, he's sticking a microphone in front of the guitar.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And I go, I guess we're writing. Okay.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Then this melody came and these words came.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And it was. It happened so quick.

[Marc Maron]

Is that your favorite on the record?

[Keith Urban]

They're all my favorite for different reasons, or I wouldn't have put it on the record. But it's. It's.

[Marc Maron]

The Daytona's a sweet song. Is that the hit?

[Keith Urban]

I didn't write that song.

[Marc Maron]

You didn't?

[Keith Urban]

No. I Love it.

[Marc Maron]

What song is that?

[Keith Urban]

These two guys, Stephen Lee Olson and Nathan Barlow. Nathan's in my band.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Keith Urban]

A great songwriter.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And I like Chuck Taylor's, too.

[Keith Urban]

Thank you.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of, like, you know, sweet songs on there, man.

[Keith Urban]

It's a big mix.

[Marc Maron]

But that's just like, you know, you don't know that's going to happen until you sit with the guy and, like, sort of, like feel it out in the studio. Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

You just get in, start jamming, and a spirit happens and it feels good and we just latch on. Away we go. And then it's almost always melody.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

And you've got the melody formed.

[Marc Maron]

Right?

[Keith Urban]

Just. I know what the hell we're saying, right?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

It's a great story about Mick and Keith writing songs where, you know, they ask Keith, how do you guys write songs? And Keith's like, well, we come up with a little. Little melody. And then Mick goes out to the mic and makes vowel movements. Just bowel movements. That's what it is.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

Songs feel so good.

[Marc Maron]

How great are the Stones, dude?

[Keith Urban]

They're the best.

[Marc Maron]

Right? I don't even know. I can't even. It's. You can't even explain why, really. In a sense, you know, it's kind of.

[Keith Urban]

It's a feeling. That's why. Just like the band. It's a feeling.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah. And I guess you kind of chase that, right.

[Keith Urban]

You allow it to happen. That's a different thing.

[Marc Maron]

The space.

[Keith Urban]

It's like that quote, there is no way to peace. Peace is the way.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

It's the same approach. It's like, you can't. You can't try and get in the flow state. You just get rid of everything that's not.

[Marc Maron]

And. But it's also the life of a musician. That's the one thing I realized about the Stones, like, you know, because I play, but, like, it's not my life. And guys who play for life, it's almost like nothing else exists.

[Keith Urban]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And they're in the studio for fucking days.

[Keith Urban]

That's me.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Keith Urban]

I don't play golf. I don't hunt. I don't fish. I don't do jack. I love music.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And. And you're just in there for days.

[Keith Urban]

I just bought a studio in Nashville.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, really?

[Keith Urban]

A really good one.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Keith Urban]

I'm. I'm so jonesing to get in there. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And so. Well, you'll just like, wake up and be like, I'm going. And then go around.

[Keith Urban]

I hope so. That's the plan.

[Marc Maron]

Well, this record's great. And you had an amazing career. You're lucky to be alive. It's great talking to you.

[Keith Urban]

You're lucky to be alive, too, Mark.

[Marc Maron]

All right.

[Keith Urban]

And I'm glad you are.

[Marc Maron]

Thank you.

[Keith Urban]

Congrats to you.

[Marc Maron]

Thank you. You too.

[Keith Urban]

Thanks for having me at your house.

[Marc Maron]

You bet. That was a pretty, you know, pretty deep stuff, you know, I mean, I didn't never know what to expect. We got some places again. His new album, High, is available now. Hang out for a minute. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart Choice. Progressive loves to help people make smart choices. That's why they offer a tool called Auto Quote Explorer that allows you to compare your Progressive car insurance quote with rates from other companies so you save time on the research and can enjoy savings when you choose the best rate for you. Give it a try after this episode of progressive.com progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates. Not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy. Hey, folks, we've got more bonus material from past WTF guests on the full Marin this week. Outtakes from recent episodes with Chris Robinson, Jason Ritter, Elizabeth Olsen and more. For bonus episodes twice a week, sign up for the full Marin go to the link in the episode description or go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF Plus. And remember, before we go, this podcast is hosted by acast. Look, this guitar situation, I just kind of plowed through a thing that I was working on with the looper. It didn't pan out on the looper. It doesn't matter. You know, it helped me. It helped me. Sa Sa Sa Boomer lives Monkey and lafonda Cat Angels everywhere.