Episode 1588 - Mo Mandel

Summary

Podcast Summary: WTF with Marc Maron – Episode 1588 Featuring Mo Mandel

Introduction

In Episode 1588 of the "WTF with Marc Maron" podcast, host Marc Maron engages in a candid and revealing conversation with comedian Mo Mandel. The episode delves into a myriad of topics, including personal backgrounds, the intricacies of stand-up comedy, mental health struggles, and the complexities of modern relationships. Through their authentic dialogue, Marc and Mo provide listeners with deep insights into their lives, challenges, and the world of comedy.

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1. Political Commentary and Personal Views (00:00 - 13:27)

Marc Maron begins the episode with a fervent discussion about the current political climate, emphasizing the importance of voting and expressing his strong stance against Donald Trump. He advocates for Kamala Harris, highlighting her positive influence on American culture and urging listeners to support her candidacy.

Marc Maron (01:19): "If Trump gets in office again, the chaos and the damage that is going to happen in weeks is going to be irretractable."

Maron passionately criticizes the potential consequences of another Trump administration, warning of systemic havoc and societal strain. His urgent tone underscores the gravity he perceives in the political landscape, setting a serious tone for the episode's beginning.

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2. Introduction to Mo Mandel (13:27 - 17:17)

Transitioning from politics, Marc introduces Mo Mandel, a comedian known for his appearances on "Chelsea Lately" and the creator of "Comedy Knockout" on TruTV. Mo's new YouTube special, "Mo Mandel: Trying to Make It," is briefly highlighted.

Marc Maron (01:19): "Today on this show, I'm going to talk to Mo Mandel. He's a comic... hija ..."

Maron expresses his initial hesitation about having Mo on the show but quickly shifts to enthusiasm, setting the stage for an engaging and in-depth conversation.

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3. Early Career and Stand-Up Journey (17:17 - 25:35)

Mo Mandel shares his early foray into stand-up comedy, detailing his attempts in England and the challenges of performing in a new country. He recounts his experience at the Comedy Store in London, where his accent led to an immediate "gong" and subsequent rejection.

Mo Mandel (18:29): "They heard my accent, they just bombed me off."

Despite early setbacks, Mo's determination persists as he transitions back to San Francisco to immerse himself in the local comedy scene. Marc reminisces about the vibrant San Francisco stand-up landscape of the early '90s, mentioning contemporaries like Patton Oswalt and Blaine Capatch. This segment underscores the competitive nature of comedy and Mo's resilience in navigating it.

Marc Maron (16:21): "But when I got there, it was always sort of like, that's a comedy city."

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4. Family Background and Upbringing (25:35 - 34:19)

The conversation shifts to Mo's family background, revealing a unique upbringing in a commune called Rainbow in Mendocino County, California. Mo's parents, both Jewish and from New York City, moved to San Francisco during the Summer of Love, embracing the hippie lifestyle.

Mo Mandel (19:01): "I grew up in the woods in a little place called Boonville, California... It's about two and a half hours north of San Francisco."

Mo details the communal living experience, highlighting the balance between his father's psychiatric career and his mother's unconventional therapeutic practices. This upbringing in a non-traditional environment played a significant role in shaping Mo's worldview and comedic style.

Mo Mandel (29:07): "My parents are both from New York City. My dad's from the Bronx, my mom's from Brooklyn... They lived in a dome with a bunch of other families."

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5. Mental Health and Personal Struggles (34:19 - 43:11)

Marc and Mo delve into personal topics, discussing Mo's battles with Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD) and how it has affected his life and career. Mo recounts childhood rituals developed to manage his OCD, illustrating the profound impact mental health has had on his daily functioning.

Mo Mandel (41:18): "I had this crazy 55 point process I would have to do to go to bed... It was powerful."

Marc shares his own experiences with anxiety and panic, drawing parallels with Mo's struggles. The honesty in their exchange highlights the stigmas surrounding mental health and the importance of discussing these issues openly.

Marc Maron (42:03): "I think with some, if you have trauma or whatever, you can process that and maybe integrate that."

The dialogue explores therapeutic approaches, the limitations of cognitive-behavioral therapy, and the ongoing challenges of managing mental health as adults.

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6. Sobriety and Recovery (43:11 - 52:52)

Mo discusses his journey to sobriety, revealing that he has been alcohol-free for almost a decade. He details the circumstances that led to his decision, including his experiences hosting a bar show on TruTV while still drinking, which ultimately became untenable.

Mo Mandel (50:51): "I got sober. And so then I had to host a whole season of a bar show sober, secretly."

Maron shares insights into his own path to sobriety, emphasizing the necessity of self-awareness and deliberate action in overcoming addiction. Their conversation underscores the challenges and triumphs inherent in the recovery process.

Marc Maron (49:29): "If you have trauma or whatever, you can process that and maybe integrate that."

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7. Stand-Up Comedy Experiences (52:52 - 62:18)

The focus returns to Mo's stand-up career, highlighting significant moments such as his third-place finish in a comedy competition and his interactions with renowned comedians like Robin Williams and Dave Chappelle. Mo recounts his auditions, performances, and the evolution of his comedic voice.

Mo Mandel (56:15): "Robin's on stage... He starts beatboxing while most Steph and Chappelle battle rap."

These anecdotes illustrate the camaraderie and competitive spirit within the comedy community, as well as the personal growth Mo has experienced over two decades in the industry.

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8. Personal Life and Relationships (62:18 - 73:53)

Mo opens up about his personal life, discussing his marriage to a urologist and their journey through fertility challenges, including IVF and a miscarriage. He reflects on how these experiences have shaped his perspectives on family, relationships, and fatherhood.

Mo Mandel (68:07): "I'm in this thing now where I don't really know because, like, I love being on the road and doing stand-up, but I don't know how to."

Maron and Mo explore the balance between personal aspirations and family commitments, highlighting the sacrifices and adjustments required to maintain both.

Mo Mandel (68:27): "I just love doing stand up, but then I'm like, what if I had a great career? Like, what would that mean facing facetime, my kid all the time."

Their discussion touches on broader themes of work-life balance, personal fulfillment, and the evolving nature of relationships in the context of modern life.

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9. Reflections on Creativity and Future Aspirations (73:53 - End)

In the closing segment, Mo shares his aspirations to transition more into writing, expressing a desire to focus on creative endeavors while being present for his growing family. He contemplates the future of his stand-up career and the potential for increased success.

Mo Mandel (73:16): "I really want to be a writer, like... I'm writing a screenplay."

Maron offers encouragement, acknowledging the challenges of balancing creativity with personal responsibilities. The conversation ends on a hopeful note, with both hosts reflecting on their journeys and the paths ahead.

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Notable Quotes

• Marc Maron (01:19): "If Trump gets in office again, the chaos and the damage that is going to happen in weeks is going to be irretractable."

• Mo Mandel (18:29): "They heard my accent, they just bombed me off."

• Mo Mandel (34:19): "I had this crazy 55 point process I would have to do to go to bed... It was powerful."

• Mo Mandel (50:51): "I got sober. And so then I had to host a whole season of a bar show sober, secretly."

• Mo Mandel (56:15): "Robin's on stage... He starts beatboxing while most Steph and Chappelle battle rap."

• Mo Mandel (68:07): "I'm in this thing now where I don't really know because, like, I love being on the road and doing stand-up, but I don't know how to."

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Conclusion

Episode 1588 of "WTF with Marc Maron" offers an intimate glimpse into Mo Mandel's life, blending humor with heartfelt discussions about personal struggles and triumphs. Through their engaging dialogue, Marc and Mo navigate complex topics with authenticity, providing listeners with both laughter and profound insights. This episode stands as a testament to the power of honest conversation in understanding oneself and others.

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Note: This summary omits advertisement segments and focuses solely on the substantive content of the episode, ensuring a coherent and comprehensive overview for those who haven't listened.

Transcript

[Marc Maron]

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[Mo Mandel]

Lock the gate.

[Marc Maron]

All right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the buddies? What the nicks? What's happening? I'm Marc Maron. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. How are you feeling? It's not a great feeling, whatever this feeling is today in relation to tomorrow. Look, I voted for Kamala in the primaries in 2020. I've been a big fan for a long time and I like her. I like what she represents. I like the impact she could have and does have on the culture of this country and the way she represents this country. So obviously I'm going to vote for it. Now, I don't know what your family looks like or what you're doing or who you are, but just go vote and don't be swayed or frightened by these pseudo libertarian nihilistic chaos junkies or these neo Nazi fucks or these burn it all down lefties. Just, you know, think about the quality of life that you want to have and that you want your family to have. And I do think I heard someone else talking about it's not a bad time to, you know, today if there's still people in your world that, you know, have not voted. I don't know how they could still be on the fence, but I mean, it is a good time to make a case for fucking Sanity. And for, you know, a future in this country that is tolerant and embracing of others, it's still possible. I don't know how anyone justifies or rationalizes putting a criminal, mentally ill person in office who is a complete narcissistic chaos junkie. I mean, it's just insanity. It's going to be insane anyways. I'm sure this thing is not going to be figured out for days, weeks, who the fuck knows? And whatever it's looking like that's going to cause insanity. But I can guarantee you, if Trump gets in office again, the chaos and the damage that is going to happen in weeks is going to be irretractable. You know, whatever he's planning and his minions and his apparatchiks and his stooges and his grifting colleagues, it's just going to wreak havoc on the system. It's going to bust it. It's going to make life in this country insane and unbearable for millions of people. If he tries to initiate massive deportations in the first week, just the chaos and pain it's going to cause. For what? I mean, do you have people in your family or do, you know, people that thrive on that? I mean, I don't know how we've gotten so disconnected from a basic sort of compassion or sympathy for people we don't know and people that are struggling. It's just. It's mind blowing. I think that people have voluntarily disrupted their ability to have a conscience, to have empathy, to see other people as people. A lot of it has to do with the steady stream of garbage and propaganda they dump into their brains on a daily basis. Because I would imagine most people, if you're just driving down the street or you're just living your life, or you're walking to the store or whatever the fuck you're doing, if it's quiet and you've got the equipment turned off, what does your life really look like? What are you reacting to? Just stuff that's being dumped into your fucking head from your phone. But look, I'm not talking. I know that most of my people here, I'm preaching to the choir to a certain degree, but just know. And if you need to make it more known or take a shot at it. I know a lot of people have written off people in their family already and that they're just. They're lost. And look, I've seen narcissists unravel before, and really, what's usually at the core of it when a narcissist is losing his Grip on his ability to see himself as all important. When that comes unraveled, what's at the core of a narcissist is something very young, very damaged, and usually all it can say is fuck you. And I just, I cannot understand what kind of damage people come from to sort of justify or rationalize, you know, voting for, for really a monster. I mean, the funniest thing that happened at that rally in Madison Square Garden, the funniest thing was not, you know, Tony Henchquiff bombing or whatever comedy he was doing. The funniest thing in that rally, a speaker called Kamala Harris the Antichrist. Seriously? Seriously. Said she's the Antichrist. That's fucking hilarious. That's like Trump calling Democrats fascists. And I've said this before and I don't believe this shit, but I'm a fan of a good fairy tale or of a good story. But we have never seen a politician that more closely resembles the Antichrist than this fucking guy. Yeah, I know. Like you think he's funny. You think he's kind of a, kind of belligerent asshole that just speaks his mind. But I'm telling you, as a prince of chaos, this guy is going to wreak so much fucking havoc on this fucking country and people's lives when they're just scrambling to deport hundreds of thousands of people, millions of people. They're firing all the federal government employees who operate on a nonpartisan level. They're just going to have to scramble to find enough stooges and fucking acolytes to fill these jobs with no experience of anything. The cabinet that he's thinking about are just a bunch of fucking whack jobs, grifters. It's just like it's a joke. The joke is on us. It's a cosmic fucking joke. The kind of language that these fuckers are using in terms of who the libs are, who the Democrats are, who the woke people, are they using the language of annihilation? And I know that there's so much going on to fill your brain with just on a day to day basis that it doesn't seem real or that they would never do that. But I mean, I think it's important to understand that they have done that in other places, in other periods of history, over and over and over again. Just slaughtered people who didn't agree with them. And the ones that saw the slaughter who didn't agree with them learned to shut the fuck up. I mean, that's really how fascism or authoritarianism works. You can't kill everybody because you need somebody to run the fucking place. So you kill a few as an example. Just the possibilities are fucking horrendous. And we can no longer say it can't happen here because we're on the precipice of something truly awful or truly relieving and at least with the possibility of maintaining a way of life that is relatively democratic and at least tolerant of all people. But I do think that you should encourage people to vote for Kamala Harris, by all means. And if they're on the fence or they're going to not vote or going to throw away their vote as a protest vote, no one gives a fuck about your protest. Try to save the fucking country, will you? Today on this show, I'm going to talk to Mo Mandel. He's a comic. I've known him for a few years. I've always thought he was kind of a character. And I don't know, it just, it's one of those things where it's like, hey, why didn't I, why don't I talk to that guy? He was a regular on Chelsea Lately and the creator of the show Comedy Knockout on TruTV. He's got a new special on YouTube called Mo Mandel. Trying to make it so that's going to happen. I'll be back on tour starting in January. I don't know what the world will look like or what the nature of that tour will be, depending on whether it's going to be a terrifying hellscape or something at least moving in the right direction for sure. But I'll be in Sacramento, California at the Crest Theater on Friday, January 10th Napa, California at the Uptown Theater on Saturday, January 11th. I'm in Fort Collins, Colorado at Lincoln Center Performance hall on Friday, January 17th Boulder, Colorado at the Boulder Theater on Saturday, January 18th Santa Barbara, California at the Low Barrow Theater on Thursday, January 30th San Luis Obispo, California at the Fremont center on Friday, January 31st and Monterey, California at the Golden State Theater on Saturday, February 1st. So you can go to wtfpod.com tour for all of my dates and links for upcoming shows. And look, folks, if you worry about the safety of your home or family, now is the best time of year to get home security. And right now Simplisafe is giving exclusive early access to its Black Friday sale. For WTF listeners. We always tell you to trust Simplisafe and keeping your home and family secure. Now trust us to get you the best deal possible on home security. But before I get to that deal. Let me remind you that Simplisafe stops intruders before they break into your home. Simplisafe's active guard Outdoor protection, changes the game by preventing crime before it even happens. If someone's lurking around or acting suspiciously, the Simplisafe agents see them in real time, talk to them directly, set off your spotlights, and even call the police before they've had a chance to break in. So here's that Simplisafe Black Friday sale that they're giving you early access to. And I told you, it's a big one this week only you can take 60% off any new system with a select professional monitoring plan. Their best offer of the year. Head to SimpliSafe.com WTF to claim your discount and make sure your home is safe this season. Don't wait. This offer won't last for long. Keep your home, your family and your peace of mind protected. With Simplisafe, there's no safe like Simplisafe. I don't know. I guess I'll talk to you Thursday about whatever the hell fucking happened or what is still happening or what might be happening for the rest of our fucking lives. Okay, look. Mo Mandela has got a new comedy special called Mo Mandel. Trying to make it. It's available on YouTube. I like this guy. We've never had this long a conversation. I didn't really know him going in and I'd assumed a lot of things that were not even true. You know, you think you know a guy, but this turned out to be a fun and interesting conversation. This is me and Mo Mandel. Life is busy, people. And if you're like me, no matter how busy you get, you've got to get your fitness in. Peloton has a variety of challenging class and programs that fit into your schedule. Whether you're a new parent or traveling for the holiday or training for something big or just busy like everyone else. From four week strength building classes to running, cycling and everything in between, Peloton can adapt to any goal and need during your busiest times. Find your push. Find your power with [e-mail] so, all right, Mo, What? Do we have a problem? We don't have a problem.

[Mo Mandel]

Do me and you have a problem?

[Marc Maron]

No problems.

[Mo Mandel]

I mean, I'm here, so I guess we don't. I'm surprised to be here. I didn't think I would be.

[Marc Maron]

Why?

[Mo Mandel]

I don't know. I just. I talked to you in the hallway of the Comedy Store, you know, for years. But it never goes anywhere. It's fast. You're nice, but you don't, like. You don't ever, like. I don't know.

[Marc Maron]

It was funny. Here's my impressions of you.

[Mo Mandel]

Oh, no, no.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, like, I. I was like, well, he's sort of a burly Jew, that guy.

[Mo Mandel]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

You know, he's kind of got the. He's like. I break Jews into. You know, there's the professor, kind of a symphony composer Jew. And then there are the. The sort of like, the workers. Like, the.

[Mo Mandel]

I'm a worker. You're calling me like a. Like, from the pale. Like my. My wife. My wife's grandmother's from Austria. She was. And she. And my wife said she would always look down on, like, pale Jews like myself from, like, the Eastern Europe.

[Marc Maron]

The German Jews were the worst. Yeah, yeah. No, you're like a James Khan Jew.

[Mo Mandel]

That's so funny you say that, because I've always heard I look like James Khan from the Godfather.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

And then I auditioned to play James Khan in that.

[Marc Maron]

In that movie.

[Mo Mandel]

Didn't get it.

[Marc Maron]

So I was like, yeah, well, I.

[Mo Mandel]

Guess you still have to be good actor.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, well, that's. That's the other thing. Like, I knew you were loud, and I knew that, you know, you. You definitely took hold of the stage. And I think when I met you, it was one of those things where I think you had been cast in that Jay Moore show. Was that it? Without magical. What was the show?

[Mo Mandel]

Hank Azaria.

[Marc Maron]

Hank is.

[Mo Mandel]

I know exactly the moment you're going to reflect. I'm so glad you brought this up, because I've been angry at Al for this moment for a long time. What moment was that? Please go on, because I know. I know what you're going to say.

[Marc Maron]

No, I just saw, like, I've been in this business long enough to. Where I got the sense where, you know, when you were. When you got that there was part of you that sort of like, I'm in. I'm done. I'm doing it. This is it. And then I just watched it go away, and I'm like, well, he's got to do comedy now. Oh, man. What was the Al moment?

[Mo Mandel]

So one time. Well, there's. I got to also tell you, though, the first time I ever heard of you.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

But I do remember seeing you at Moshe Kasher's house at a. Oh, yeah. And Al introduced me to you as. Here's Mo Mandel. He's from San Francisco. He. He's got a lot of stuff in the industry right away. And everyone up there is like, resentful about it. And I was like, why would you introduce me like that? I don't. First of all, that's not how I've seen myself. I feel like I've done like a million open mics of like, been. I was like a bartender or a barista.

[Marc Maron]

And you're right in front of me.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, right in front of you. And I was like, thanks, Al. Mark will hate me forever now because who likes that guy? I mean, it was just like, that's not. But it's also funny how, like, I didn't start comedy with Al, so he didn't even. He wasn't even around.

[Marc Maron]

You were a little after him.

[Mo Mandel]

I was. Yeah, after him. So I was like. It's not like he was like. So I don't know, when he said that, I was like, oh, but that's.

[Marc Maron]

Such a fucking San Francisco thing, dude. Yeah, because when I got to San francisco in fucking 94, 93. 94, for some reason, me and Patton Oswalt and Blaine Capache all showed up within weeks of each other. And by that time, the scene had been decimated because everyone moved to la. And, you know, there was. The people that were left up there were very specific, you know, like Carlos Alzaraki, Johnny Steele. Proops was still around, but all the big hitters had gone away and it kind of. Maybe, I guess it went through a renaissance, I don't know. But when I got there, it was always sort of like, that's a comedy city. I was there when the Holy City Zoo was on its last legs.

[Mo Mandel]

That's why I moved there is because I was starting. I was a creative writing major in college.

[Marc Maron]

Where?

[Mo Mandel]

UC Santa Barbara. Little teeny college within a college called College of Creative Studies.

[Marc Maron]

Okay. And is that all you could get into?

[Mo Mandel]

I barely got in. I mean, yes, you're right.

[Marc Maron]

So what? So.

[Mo Mandel]

So I was there and I decided I want to go into standup. I hit up Al Ma Barker.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

Who I had seen doing the marijuana logs in Santa Barbara. That's the only reason I ever heard of him.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's right. They had a thing. It was him and Tony Kameen and Doug Benson and Benson. That was a big deal for a while.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, it was hilarious. Yeah, it was right when the vagina monologue was like a thing.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

So anyway, I asked Al. I mean, arj. I hit him up. I was like, where should I move? I want to go into stand up. And he's like, San Francisco. That's the place to start. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And that was it.

[Mo Mandel]

Well, I took a detour to England for six months. But, yeah, after college, yeah, I had a girlfriend. This is complicated, but I had a girlfriend from the Bahamas that I met while doing a study abroad in England.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

I thought I was going to marry her. So I moved back to England, lived in a dorm room with her illegally while she was finishing school, started doing open mics in London.

[Marc Maron]

In London, yeah. What was that like?

[Mo Mandel]

Well, my first one I did at the Comedy Store in London, and it was the Gong Show.

[Marc Maron]

It's hard.

[Mo Mandel]

Hard, yeah. So the Gong show is like, you have to go up and they gong you off if they don't want you on there.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

So I go up there. This is right when America's bringing England to the Iraq war. And I, like, took the bus up from Brighton or the train, you know, it took me the whole thing to go up there. Cuz I'm like an hour away and I go, hey, what's up, guy?

[Marc Maron]

Gong.

[Mo Mandel]

They heard my accent, they just bombed me off.

[Marc Maron]

That was it.

[Mo Mandel]

I did it to like, a Scottish guy, so I'm like, all right, they're just assholes.

[Marc Maron]

And that was it.

[Mo Mandel]

And then I did other ones, too.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah. That was my.

[Marc Maron]

That's a hard audience, though.

[Mo Mandel]

Oh, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

That was not easy for Americans and. And just in general. Very vocal.

[Mo Mandel]

Very vocal. And I lied about having a career in America to get on stage at a real club before I left.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

And it was awesome. Like, somehow the chutzpah and just the adrenaline, I got through it. But it was like, really cool. Everybody's smoking cigarettes in the clubs at that time. Sure.

[Marc Maron]

But, like, where did you grow up?

[Mo Mandel]

I grew up in the woods in a little place called Boonville, California.

[Marc Maron]

Boonville.

[Mo Mandel]

It's in Mendocino County.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, my God. Like, what is that near? What's the city?

[Mo Mandel]

It's about two and a half hours north of San Francisco.

[Marc Maron]

Holy shit.

[Mo Mandel]

No Jews.

[Marc Maron]

No.

[Mo Mandel]

Basically no Jews.

[Marc Maron]

No body.

[Mo Mandel]

Not a lot of bodies, A lot of pot fields. It was just like.

[Marc Maron]

It's so pretty up there, man. I used to, when I lived in San Francisco, to drive up to Point Reyes and shit. Oh, yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

So I'm not. Well, yeah, I'm farther than that, but.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, no, no, I get it. But like, why up there?

[Mo Mandel]

So my parents are both from New York City. My dad's from the Bronx, my mom's from Brooklyn, and both Jews. Both Jews. I heard you on one of your episodes talking about your Percentage of Ashkenazi.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah, high.

[Mo Mandel]

Mine's real high.

[Marc Maron]

Mine's like 99.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, like 97. 98.

[Marc Maron]

I did, I did that show of finding your roots.

[Mo Mandel]

Oh, you did?

[Marc Maron]

And they were able to track back my dad's wine into Belarus, into Pale Settlement, further back than they ever tracked a Jew.

[Mo Mandel]

Wow.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Tracked it back to, like, a Jewish tailor with, you know, a Hebrew name.

[Mo Mandel]

Okay, so I gotta tell you this story with 23andMe and Jewish percentages. One time we went to this free Yom Kippur service with my wife. And where is this? It was at the Laugh Factory.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Mo Mandel]

You know the laughter do like Free Russia.

[Marc Maron]

I never go in there. Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

So anyway, this rabbi is a long time ago, so I don't know, maybe he's got.

[Marc Maron]

You're trying to make connections.

[Mo Mandel]

Maybe he's got. No, I just, like, I didn't want to pay for services. Like, where I grew up, it was like, in the woods. They were just lucky if any Jewish people from any county showed up. You have to pay to go there.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

We even have a synagogue.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

So for a while. Anyway, so we were watching this rabbi, he was so bad, and he was talking about, you know, he was trying to tell a story about how Jewish. Perseverance.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

And he was like. And I was talking to a woman, and she said, I'm 100% Jewish. Everyone in my family has married a Jew, you know, throughout all the generations. And I asked her, this is. The rabbi says, I asked her, I said, what percentage are you Jewish? And she said, I looked at my thing, 98%. And he goes. And I had to explain to this woman that if everyone's married Jews, and you're 98% Jewish, someone was raped.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

And the crowd just got dead silent, like, what? What? And he just, like, it was like, what a. I don't know what he thought was the response. It just bombed. And then he's like, but, but Jews persevere. And that's the point of that.

[Marc Maron]

What the fuck? Well, I mean, I had hoped when I did the 23 and me that there was an outside chance that the Vikings had come down into Poland and at some point injected a little bit of Viking DNA into me, but it didn't. Didn't pan out.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

They're like, no, like, yeah, no, I, I did the 23andMe. And then I was reconfirmed on the, on the Finding your roots. It's just all Ashkenaz, which, which I, I'm happy about.

[Mo Mandel]

I, I, Yeah, I Mean, my wife's half Jewish. I mean, she is, you know, her dad convert or whatever, so.

[Marc Maron]

Her mom's Jewish.

[Mo Mandel]

Her mom's Jewish. Way too Jewish.

[Marc Maron]

She's Jewish. I tell a story about, like, you know, that. That Orthodox supply store next to Canners, like, right across from canners on the same side of the street. It's just all whatever, you know, that stuff. Hasidic supplies. And I walked in there because there's a lot going on. It was late at night, and it was pre. It was before one of the holidays that regular Jews don't know about. You needed some sort of ritual equipment. But it was just, boom, it was hopping in there. And I'm like, I want to go in there and see what's going on. I walk in, there's a guy like, you know, just right at a fiddler, you know, just like gray P. That little beardy, shorties, hunched over. And I'm like, what do you got going on in this place? And he looks at me, goes, you Jewish? I'm like, yes, I am. Okay. I'm like, wow, Full phlegm, you know?

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, you're like that phlegm. You're at least 99%, but, like, you.

[Marc Maron]

Know, you seem to have fared pretty well. I think we did all right with our looks. It's for 99% Ashkenaz.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, it's a lot of. I mean, it's funny you say that about, like. Well, that area in particular of the canters, because my cousin is a comedian. Sue Kalinske is my cousin.

[Marc Maron]

Well, fuck, I know sue forever.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah. And she used to have.

[Marc Maron]

She's a cousin.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah. Second cousin.

[Marc Maron]

I fucking go back to New York with her. She's my generation.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I mean, like, she was. I just saw her, I guess I think I probably saw her at Silver Friedman's funeral. Bud's wife.

[Mo Mandel]

Right, right, right.

[Marc Maron]

But I hadn't seen her in years. Yeah, she was funny.

[Mo Mandel]

Oh, yeah. She used to have this joke about that area. She's like, it's weird because it's like in. You know, it's all Hasidic Jewish places, and then it's punk rock. There's, like, tattoo parlors.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

I wonder if there's ever an intersection where, like, a guy walks in, hey, can you turn this nine into a smile?

[Marc Maron]

An old guy. It's pretty dark. Like it?

[Mo Mandel]

Very good.

[Marc Maron]

I like it. So you're up there in the woods.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Wait, so, like, you can tell me that Kalinske's knowing that, like, I know How Jewish families work, where you get to, like, you know. You have a cousin.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, no, that's how it was. You know, we would grow up.

[Marc Maron]

You have a cousin with it who was a comedian in New York, right? You had that.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, yeah. We would watch her on, you know.

[Marc Maron]

We have the old Caroline's Comedy Hour. Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

We didn't have cable or anything, so we would always, like. We have like, two channels that we can get in the woods. And so we would watch like a vhs. I'm like, here's your cousin on the Bob Hope special.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. But that must have planted.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, for sure. It was really cool. I mean, I always wanted to be a writer. I really wanted to be like Raymond Carver or Hemingway.

[Marc Maron]

That's why you did the, the, the, the, the. What'd you write? You went to writing school?

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You wrote a novel.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah. When did you quite finish it? But isn't still not finished? No. And I went back and read it, and I was so obsessed with, like, the beat writer.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, of course.

[Mo Mandel]

You know, free association. Not only do I not quite understand the emotion that I had at, like, 20 years old.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

I don't understand what I'm even saying half the time. It's like these long, flowing senses and passionate things that is. You know, it's all this sexuality and just like. Just emotions I don't even feel. It's so weird. And I'm just like, God, I kind of miss that guy. But I'm really glad I'm not that guy.

[Marc Maron]

But how much of a beatnik freak were you? Because I was pretty dug in, you know, with those guys. Yeah. Like, I. I went to Kerouac's grave when I was in college up in Lowell, you know, left some booze. But I was like, I really. I. I was a big kind of, like, nerd for that.

[Mo Mandel]

Oh, yeah. I. I'm not like that. I don't ever get into, like, culture like that, like, where I, like, would go visit his. His grave or whatever.

[Marc Maron]

I don't usually either, but, like, I was dug in with those guys.

[Mo Mandel]

Oh, I love them. And I had this teacher in college who said he was coming up at a publishing house. He remembers Kerouac coming in right towards the end, like, drunk, with a crate of old manuscripts, trying to sell them.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, where in Boston? In like.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, New York or Boston. Just like, I got this one. It was just like. Just really got very sad. He died so young.

[Marc Maron]

It's crazy, but he drank himself to death. He turned on his legacy in a way. He you know, he. You know, he became very, you know, closed minded. He became very sort of of that town, Lowell, you know, in the bad way. And his last wife, Stella, I think her name was, maybe had a brother, George, who ended up with the estate. And I kind of knew his. It was like a nephew. The. I kind of knew the guy who ended up with the estate. Young guy to try to keep getting juice out of it, you know, But. Yeah, but like, who were like, what were you reading? Like, how'd you get turned on to that?

[Mo Mandel]

I don't know. I just like. Well, on the road and then I read like, you know, just like, you know, all of his books really.

[Marc Maron]

Were you into all of them? Ferlinghetti, Ginsburg, Burroughs.

[Mo Mandel]

I was really like Burrows Burroughs, Neil Cassidy. Of course. Me and my friend were just like. We just thought he was the coolest guy ever.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

And then I read a bunch of care acts. They're all nowhere near as good as on the road. That's the problem. Like, there's a big steep drop off, I think.

[Marc Maron]

I think some people think that, you know, that that straight ahead novel, I think was called the Town in the country or was kind of a great novel, but it was different. It wasn't as stylized. And I think some people, I don't know. Dharma Bums is pretty good.

[Mo Mandel]

Dharma Bums is good.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah. I don't know. I was just like. I mean, this is a long time ago. I was obsessed with him. I read a lot of Japanese fiction. Actually. I got turned on to this Japanese fiction professor in college. And he got me into like all these great writers, Japanese fiction. I mean, it's so weird. Cause I don't read ever anymore, but.

[Marc Maron]

So you're growing up in the woods, but why are your parents in the woods?

[Mo Mandel]

So they met and San Francisco? Well, no, they met at SUNY Buffalo. My dad was in medical school. My. He met my mom there. And they moved out to San Francisco in the summer of love. Hippie, dippy stuff. Lived in a dome, a commune dome in the Oakland Hills.

[Marc Maron]

So they met in the late 60s?

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, I guess. Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Or the mid to late 60s. And everything was changing.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And so they. They. They got on board.

[Mo Mandel]

They got on board big time.

[Marc Maron]

And they. They moved to the heart of it.

[Mo Mandel]

The heart of it? Santa Altamont. I mean, they've been it.

[Marc Maron]

They went to Altamont.

[Mo Mandel]

They were at Altamont on acid.

[Marc Maron]

That must have been horrendous.

[Mo Mandel]

Horrifying.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, I've read books on it, dude.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I Mean, I. That. That movie. Right? So.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah. Give me Shelter.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. So I read. I read Joel Selvin's book on Altamont and it's fucking mind blowing that more horrible things didn't happen. It was a shit show.

[Mo Mandel]

It is actually. It's a good point. Only one person died and you.

[Marc Maron]

Well, there were some other ones, but it wasn't the guy. The guy who got stabbed by the angels. But there's a couple other, like, connected deaths, car issues and whatever. But. But yeah, there was no bathrooms. There was. They had not prepared for that many people. There was no place to park.

[Mo Mandel]

It was like Fire festival on steroids.

[Marc Maron]

Totally. And the stage was like two feet high. Like it was crazy, the whole thing. You got to read that book. What'd your parents say about it?

[Mo Mandel]

I mean, dad was just like. It was. Yeah, it was horrifying. They took acid and they were there and it was just.

[Marc Maron]

Was it the bad acid or you don't.

[Mo Mandel]

I didn't really get into it too much. I mean, I don't. They. Yeah, I don't know. They just said it was fucking scary.

[Marc Maron]

I highly recommend that Joel Sullivan check that out. He did his homework, you know, and really kind of built up how it happened. And it was. A lot of it had to do with Jagger and. Yeah. And Bill Graham not getting on board. And it was. The whole thing was fucking nuts. All right, so they're out here living in a dome.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, they lived in a dome with a bunch of other families. Like, it was called Siler Place.

[Marc Maron]

Was it a cult?

[Mo Mandel]

Not a cult. They were just like commune. Commune. Real commune? Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Mo Mandel]

You know, passing babies around to be breastfed by the various moms. Oh, you know, all that. Deal. I missed out on that. Good stuff. I wasn't born. My brother got a little of that.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah? How old's your brother?

[Mo Mandel]

He's two years older than me.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, all right.

[Mo Mandel]

So he got that good. Communal.

[Marc Maron]

How old are you?

[Mo Mandel]

All right, early 40s.

[Marc Maron]

What are you. What are you, a lady?

[Mo Mandel]

Oh, I am a lady. I've noticing my grays already. It's freaking me out, dude.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Mo Mandel]

Oh, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, what are you worried about, cuz.

[Mo Mandel]

My dad's 80 and he has a great big afro.

[Marc Maron]

Well, you're not going to lose hair.

[Mo Mandel]

I don't think I'm going to lose hair. Thank God, hopefully.

[Marc Maron]

No, you have that hairline that he didn't go. Neverending hairline.

[Mo Mandel]

He didn't go great till he was like seven.

[Marc Maron]

Get a few. What are you gonna do? Like, I'm 60, and it's not total. It's coming.

[Mo Mandel]

But you know another reason I thought you didn't like me.

[Marc Maron]

Why?

[Mo Mandel]

Because one time, because people I post pictures of my dad, and.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

Everyone says, oh, your dad looks like Mark Marin.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

And I told you that one time. I was like. He's probably like, oh, thanks. Yeah, thanks for saying I look like an old Jew.

[Marc Maron]

You believe me, no one's noticing that more than any. Than me. Like, I watched them. They're doing a doc. I mean, I'm watching this footage. I'm like, I gotta do something. My hair, dude. Because I just look like a crazy old Jew with that long ass hair with the Grayson. I'm like, what am I doing?

[Mo Mandel]

I love it. I. I love my hair now. It took me a long time to love it.

[Marc Maron]

Are you coloring it already?

[Mo Mandel]

No, I'm not coloring it, but I just hated the curl and the wildness of it when I was younger.

[Marc Maron]

And now the full ju. Fro.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

All right, so they're in a commune. And your dad's practicing medicine.

[Mo Mandel]

He's a psychiatrist.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, Jesus. All right, so he's a psychiatrist who's coming up during that era. Yeah, he studied real, like, Gestalt, RD Lang, all that.

[Mo Mandel]

He's like, what was the guy he was in? This guy who built, like, these boxes that you would go into, like, Skinner, Oregon boxes, I think.

[Marc Maron]

Oregon boxes. Wilhelm Reich.

[Mo Mandel]

Wilhelm Reich. That was this guy.

[Marc Maron]

That was his guy.

[Mo Mandel]

That was his guy.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Wilhelm Reich was trying to free the orgasm.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah. Oh, is that it?

[Marc Maron]

He was sort of.

[Mo Mandel]

My dad cleaned it up when he explained it to me.

[Marc Maron]

He was the core of the idea that Wilhelm Helmreich had. He did write, you know, he became kind of a lunatic. Like, he created the orgone box and he discovered orgone energy. But at some point, he ended up on the east coast with a compound and a school and this thing called the cloud buster. He was pretty sure he could change the weather with the orgone thing. I would say bipolar, but he was kind of this renegade protege of Freud's, who. His idea was like, well, Freud's right? And all of neurotic behavior comes from sexual reproduction, repression. Let's. Let's just unleash it. Just start fucking. Everybody should be fucking and just like, you know, free the fucking Bach. Free the dick, free the pussy. Fuck. And no one will be neurotic anymore.

[Mo Mandel]

This is not how my dad explained his thesis to me. And you're really opening my eyes up to things I've learned about my Parents since, you know, I've gotten older, that this makes a lot of sense. My dad was. He was like, it's a box.

[Marc Maron]

Well, the box is different that, you know, Burroughs fucked around with the box and, you know, it's a steel box, you know, that. That supposedly collects orgone. But he did write a book that was straight up psychology called the The Mass Psychology of Fascism. I think that still holds. It's still read in schools and stuff, but. Interesting guy.

[Mo Mandel]

It sounds more fun to go to therapy when people were thinking of this kind of stuff. Because I am so bored of therapy. I don't go to therapy because I feel like it's so boring now. They just. It's all cognitive, behavioral crap. But if somebody was going to go into my childhood dreams, that sounds at least interesting, even if it's not true.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I think that style. Well, I think that by and large, therapy is kind of a racket and you kind of. Oh, I think the guy's name was L.D. lang. I didn't mean R.D. lang is R.D. lang. But anyway.

[Mo Mandel]

Also a good psychologist.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, the best. But yeah, I think there was a time where they, you know, they were all trying to work an angle out, you know, between Jung and Freud and figure out how to apply this stuff.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And I think a lot of the hippies went with Jung.

[Mo Mandel]

My mom loves Jung and she got a master's in that psychology. So it was like I have these two different sides of therapy from parents growing up. My dad, despite all this Oregon box talk, is a pretty by the book kind of psychiatrist, you know, and my mom is like, maybe we need to get him a dance therapist. Oh yeah, Maybe he needs to be on some sort of homeopathic clown remedy.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, well, yeah, that stuff. You know, I think even today, because I think about this a lot, you know, philosophy, if it's not, you know, based in numbers and theology and metaphysics and also psychology, it's like, you know, there's all these points of view, there's all these systems and eventually, you know, if you need it, you can pick one that works. But it doesn't mean it's science.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, I've given up on self improvement. I don't try to do anything. I have. I'm just like, I realize I've peaked. Maybe I've peaked with standup and maybe I've peaked with self improvement. But I'm like, you know, stand up. You're like, I'm just writing the same joke over and over. I feel like the same with self improvement. I'm like, it is what it is. I've been the same since I was a kid. I have my same insecurities which are numerous, but they're not going away.

[Marc Maron]

What do your parents think of that? Okay, before we go on, I just wanted to make sure we. The Function of the Orgasm is a Reich book.

[Mo Mandel]

Okay.

[Marc Maron]

Then there's the Sexual Revolution, also a Reich book. Sexuality and Anxiety. Reich book.

[Mo Mandel]

That should be my. That I should have named my special. That Sexuality and Anxiety.

[Marc Maron]

The perfect name. Yeah. And the Function of the Orgasm. Did I say that already? I did.

[Mo Mandel]

I don't know.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I mean, yeah, the guy was all about. All about coming.

[Mo Mandel]

Well, I found out later in life that my parents had an open marriage for a while when we were kids, so this all adds up.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, really?

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah. One of my dad's friends who. They had a falling out. And for some reason, out of spite, he told my brother, like, my parents used to, like, be into that stuff.

[Marc Maron]

Swinging.

[Mo Mandel]

Swinging. I don't know why. It would bum me. I don't know. Apparently, you know who was really into it? I shouldn't talk out of school, but she babysat me one time at the old Commun. Winona Ryder babysat me.

[Marc Maron]

Well, her dad was part of it.

[Mo Mandel]

Her parents were really.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

MDMA swingers.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

I always wanted to meet her so I could be like, hey, babysat me.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I don't know how, you know, she came up in that. Yeah, I know. Her dad was kind of. Wait, was he a psychiatrist to. Or psychologist? I think he was a writer. Horowitz, I think is her real name.

[Mo Mandel]

Right, right.

[Marc Maron]

No, but. So how do you come upon this idea? All right, so let's. But let's track back. So they're on the commune.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And then they. They. They're like, get in the car, honey. Bring the one kid. We're going upstate.

[Mo Mandel]

They. They went to live in a place called Rainbow. Was a commune up in Mendocino County. They used to go up there in the summers and they love this place, Rainbow.

[Marc Maron]

So they were full on smart hippies.

[Mo Mandel]

Totally. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. 100%. Which is funny because people always think of me as this son of like, whatever. I don't think no one knows that. I don't show that side of my personality. I don't know. It doesn't really translate. But people think I'm like a guy from, like, I. Probably New Jersey or something like that. But, like, I grew up.

[Marc Maron]

Well, you have a. You know, you have a momentum to. You you know, you're kind of a loud, straightforward guy. And, you know, somehow or another, whether it was in reaction to.

[Mo Mandel]

I don't know what it was in.

[Marc Maron]

React, because it's sort of like. It's like children of alcoholics, either they're going to grow up drunks or they're going to grow up hating drunks.

[Mo Mandel]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

So you know what I mean? You might have just pushed back on.

[Mo Mandel]

It, I guess, but I know it bothers me because, like, when I went to this creative writing school, I remember my guidance counselor at the end, she read one of my stories that she really liked. She goes, yeah, I just never really felt like you belonged here, really. You know, I was like, yeah, why? Because I'm not like, wearing goth makeup? Like, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. How I present. Like, I don't present like a weird artist, but that's how I feel as well.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. With Hemingway belonging.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, I know. And then she's like, but I read your story. You're really good. I'm like, thanks for taking four years to do that. I just graduated. What the fuck are we talking about? It's unbelievable.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. People judge people, but I. But. All right, so they moved to Rainbow.

[Mo Mandel]

So that's what they want to do. They want to move to Rainbow.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

It didn't work out. I don't know if there was no vacancies. So they bought like 90 acres of just like perpetually shady, unusable property in the mountains, and they were going to build a comedy of their own with their friends.

[Marc Maron]

Really? Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, that was a thing.

[Marc Maron]

And they're in their late 20s.

[Mo Mandel]

No, they had me. My mom had me when she was 35.

[Marc Maron]

So they're grown people. Grown people starting communes.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, grown communes. They never got off the ground. We did live in a teepee. Early cultural appropriation for a whole summer. Like a real teepee with sticks and stuff.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, my God, it was wild. Are they doing drugs?

[Mo Mandel]

I think the plan was to grow a little pod.

[Marc Maron]

I'm sure.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, I'm sure they were.

[Marc Maron]

But they. But they were responsible.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah. They had some friends who were big time pot dealers and they went to jail for a little while. Been like, you know, six months here and there.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, well, that's. That part of the country.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah. It was definitely like, when I grabbed a lot of.

[Marc Maron]

That's what you can grow in the shade a little bit, I think, like, you can hide it.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah. They somehow, I guess my dad freaked out about, like, he'd lose his practice, so. Because my aunt Says she remembers being over time, my mom. My dad went down and cut down all the pot plants in our garden.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

After like an argument with my mom and she was really pissed that he had cut down the pot plants.

[Marc Maron]

Oh my God. Are they both alive still?

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, yeah. And they still live in the house that I was physically born in.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, so they did that too.

[Mo Mandel]

Home birth? No. Dr. Insane.

[Marc Maron]

I cannot imagine now, but your dad has a practice. Like he's worried about losing his practice in Rainbow or wherever the fuck it is.

[Mo Mandel]

He practices in a town called Ukiah, which is like, oh, that's a bigger town, 30,000 people. I have a Walmart, so we're doing good.

[Marc Maron]

But he. So he goes to work every day. He's got an office in Ukiah.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

He's got patients.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, three psychiatrists there. Maybe three or four.

[Marc Maron]

Is he still doing it?

[Mo Mandel]

He still works like minimally. He does like these like QMEs, which I think is like insurance companies get like sued for, like. Yeah, you know, he does that kind of. He still sees a couple patients, but yeah, that was.

[Marc Maron]

But he's a medical doctor.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So. So he went the full. The full route. He's not a psychologist. So he can prescribe medicine.

[Mo Mandel]

He can prescribe medicine. And my mom, later on in life got a master's degree from a place called the Institute of Imaginal Studies. Yeah, no, it did. I don't think it's any longer. Yeah, but one of those kind of places.

[Marc Maron]

Was it ever?

[Mo Mandel]

I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I know she left the house every week, so I don't know where she went. Maybe it was all imagination. That's a very good question. She'll have to answer that. I don't know that it's. I don't know. That's a clear answer to that, though.

[Marc Maron]

So she got that degree and she's a therapist as well.

[Mo Mandel]

She always. For years and years and years she taught a class, she might still do it, called Authentic Movement, which is like a dance kind of class where you channel your inner emotions through like kind of like trance dance. And so she's. And she does that in body work. So very different sides of the spectrum. In fact, I saw a pilot when I first got here. It was kind of about this as being like. Because I was a really badly tempered kid who had a lot of problems as a kid. And it was like my mom would be like, let's do meditation and let's do this. And my dad was like, we should put them on Ritalin, because they're going to put them in special ed, which they try to do in school, and they. And I guess ultimately my dad lost out. So in the pilot, the father is like, fuck this, my kid needs help. I'm gonna lose patience if this kid, he's like, people in the community are gonna start judging me. So he started slipping Ritalin into his kid's food.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

And it works so well that he starts then putting stuff into his wife's food.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

And then it's. Cause there was. And that. Yeah, that was the first thing I wrote. Really?

[Marc Maron]

That was. You wrote that?

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, I sold that.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, that's funny, man. Because, like. Because there's. There. Did it. Did it pan out that the wife thought that it was working, what she was doing and she didn't know about the Ritalin?

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, no, but I'm going to say yeah, because that's a good idea. If FX calls and said, hey, 10 years ago when we passed on that pilot, we want to make season two of like, I got the perfect.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I figured it out, man. It's got to be that she thinks what she's doing is working and only he knows.

[Mo Mandel]

I told you the Oregon box was the same.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, exactly. So that was something you wrote about your childhood.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, it was called Barry Mandelbaum, psychiatrist.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, I. Well, you know, they ended up with a shrink show, you know, or Apple did I pitch sort of a social work show to FX that they bought and never made. But that's the all water under the bridge, that showbiz. But. So, okay, so you just have the one older brother.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And you're like, he's very straight and.

[Mo Mandel]

Narrow, normal, successful partner in a law firm. Growing up with somebody like that is wonderful. He's a great brother, but is unbearable. When you're a fucked up younger sibling, you just cannot live up to this perfect person.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. So he somehow managed, huh?

[Mo Mandel]

Oh, just.

[Marc Maron]

And you were just bouncing off the.

[Mo Mandel]

Walls, just out of control, really.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, like criminal.

[Mo Mandel]

Not criminal, like young problems. Like young kid. Like, like. I remember reading this essay by David Sedaris when he had OCD as a kid. I'm like, yeah, wow, that is me.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, really?

[Mo Mandel]

I had this crazy 55 point process I would have to do to go to bed. Really was insane.

[Marc Maron]

55.

[Mo Mandel]

I mean, you remember? I don't know if it was actually.

[Marc Maron]

I would like David.

[Mo Mandel]

It was probably less than that.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

I mean, it's more than that.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

So I would have to go up to My parents balcony. I would have to like ring the bell. I was probably like nine or.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

Ring their. Their wind chime. Kiss a little knot on the wood.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

Then kiss another. Knot that. Kiss another knot because another. Look out. Do something. Look in the mirror. Look in this mirror. Then I had like a. I lived in a loft when I was a little kid, so I guess I was young. I was probably 8.

[Marc Maron]

Was it an A frame?

[Mo Mandel]

My parents originally bought an old logger's kitchen.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

And then they remodeled it.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Mo Mandel]

Second. Second grade.

[Marc Maron]

And they still live there.

[Mo Mandel]

Still there. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Okay. So you.

[Mo Mandel]

So I run to the loft and I would have to wind my body through the slats of the ladder to get up into my bed.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

I mean, this is all this, like. I mean, like, just.

[Marc Maron]

You had to do it so much.

[Mo Mandel]

It was powerful. And I had to do this stuff till college. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And still a little bit now with the OCD stuff.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah. It's. Since I've become a father, it's really flared back up. I'm drunk. My wife fucking cannot.

[Marc Maron]

Are you on medicine?

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, a little bit.

[Marc Maron]

And so doesn't help. How does it manifest with the kid?

[Mo Mandel]

I just like, okay, she bumps. My wife's a doctor too, so that is actually kind of bad because I expect her to be able to weigh in on every bump, everything that happens to the kid.

[Marc Maron]

So. You're nuts. You're worrying.

[Mo Mandel]

Thank you. That's the right way to put it. You should have been a psychiatrist. You're good. You really sum that up well.

[Marc Maron]

So you're panicking about everything.

[Mo Mandel]

Oh, it's.

[Marc Maron]

My dad was a doctor and he panicked about everything. So you're lucky she doesn't panic. I was taken to the hospital more times by my doctor dad than should have been reasonable because with him it was always like leukemia. I had my appendix out by what turns out to be not a guy who should be doing that operation because we just moved somewhere. My dad.

[Mo Mandel]

It was like old timey Groupon almost.

[Marc Maron]

It was like we just moved to New Mexico and. And he had met one doctor who, you know, the incision was incorrect. They took my appendix out, and I think it was just gas. I don't even think I had appendicitis.

[Mo Mandel]

That's like.

[Marc Maron]

But my dad panicked and there I was in the hospital.

[Mo Mandel]

That's the complete opposite of my dad. In fact, we have like a bit where like, my dad's solution for everything's like, you want. You want to try to ice it. Like, no matter what it is, like, ice Might be the answer here. He just, like, just. What kind of fucking doctor are you?

[Marc Maron]

But was there chaos?

[Mo Mandel]

No, my parents have a wonderful marriage. I mean, they're wonderful, wonderful people. And I just had, like. That's the thing. Like, sometimes I think, like, what would my life have been like if I didn't have good parents? Because I needed a lot of help growing up. Like, I had a lot of psychological problems, and I have great parents, so it's like I had.

[Marc Maron]

I have that outside of the ocd.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah. Just like, real terrible phobias. Like, scared about a lot of stuff.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

Hyperactivity. Just, you know, it had, like, just. I don't know.

[Marc Maron]

How did it settle down? Or has it.

[Mo Mandel]

I mean, it's certainly has. It's been a process for sure.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Through therapy.

[Mo Mandel]

I don't even think I would give. I don't know, a little bit.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, you know, just getting old.

[Mo Mandel]

Just getting old. Sort of slowly adapting.

[Marc Maron]

Right. So how do you freak out with the kid?

[Mo Mandel]

Like, okay, this is embarrassing, but this is, like, real, like. And I do this, like, today.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

Like, I'll be like. To my wife, like, hey, do you think, like, do you think when I slammed on the brakes in the car, like, did she hit the car seat or whatever?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

And she'd be like, no. And I'm like, so you don't think she did. She's like, no. I'm like, okay, so you don't think she hit the car seat and she's like, no. But in my mind, I'm like, you gotta ask a fourth time. You gotta get that fourth one in there. You gotta get that fourth one in there. So then she's fine. I'm not doing this. Okay. Yeah, but we're good on the cars. I mean, it's brutal, dude. It's.

[Marc Maron]

And you can't stop because in your mind, she hit her head and then she's got a problem now, and it's your fault. And you go all the way.

[Mo Mandel]

Oh, I go all the way.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, my God.

[Mo Mandel]

I don't know what all the way is, but I go all the way to, like.

[Marc Maron]

Like, she's. You know, I was like, I just.

[Mo Mandel]

Anything I could do, I just myself up and it's. It was in control. I was in control. And since I became a dad, it's.

[Marc Maron]

Really gotten bad again. Well, yeah, because now, like, all the stuff that you had when you were a kid, it's just triggered because now you're thinking for her.

[Mo Mandel]

Like, can I just tell you we're In a live example of how my brain works, what you just said there all the way. Mentally challenged, I'm like, do I need to get him to take that back or did I curse? Did I take it back? Thank you. Just four times, if you don't mind.

[Marc Maron]

I take it back. I take it back. I take it back.

[Mo Mandel]

There you go. There's that fourth. And I'm like, not even kidding. Like, it makes me feel better that you did it. It truly does. Like, it makes me feel a little calmer.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, why did someone tell us how to use God?

[Mo Mandel]

Is this God's fault?

[Marc Maron]

No, I just mean, like, my brain's the same way, dude. And like, I, you know, yesterday, you know, I. My girlfriend just refuses to wash her car. So, you know, I took it. We went to the hand car wash and I brought a sponge to, you know, kind of, you know, scour off any bird shit. And I got too abrasive a sponge. And I. And I just put micro scratches all over her car. And she doesn't give a fuck. She doesn't wash it anyways. And it's cleaner. But like, I Woke up at 3:30 this morning. Like, I gotta get that buffed. I fucked it up. I fucked it up. And there are bigger things I fucked up in my life. But if I can find one thing.

[Mo Mandel]

Oh, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Like just to be my spirituality, like to ground me. The way I ground myself is always, you know, through sort of panic. Like, if I can get to a place where I'm full of dread and anxiety, I'm like, all right, this is where I live.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah. And for you. Not to make you feel worse, but the worst part is you tried to improve the situation.

[Marc Maron]

That's right.

[Mo Mandel]

And made it worse.

[Marc Maron]

That's right. That's the big thing. That is the thing that hurts. Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

So it's like, why did you even get out of bed that day?

[Marc Maron]

Or, you know, I didn't have to get the sponge. And now, like, all I'm thinking about is like, I think they can buff it out. So I gotta get it buffed. And this car is a piece of shit. It's a piece of shit. But I gotta get it to a buffer, like, soon. And I got bigger things going on, dude. I gotta do a movie. And I should be working on that. But I'm waking up thinking about the movie and thinking how like, you know, I'm gonna suck. I don't know the guy I'm playing and I'm the lead. And then, you know, and then I just rose. I made the buffing a priority to ease the pressure from the other thing.

[Mo Mandel]

Okay, well, so you're a guy who clearly has put a lot of thought into self improvement and therapy and stuff. Why are you still so fucked up then? Well, I, I don't mean that offensively. I'm just being like, maybe, does any of this stuff work? And that's why I've given up.

[Marc Maron]

Because I don't think you really did give up. Because the thing is that ultimately what happens, because I can break it down like I just did, like, okay, I wasted a little time, but I knew it was ridiculous. And because of sobriety and because of knowing that my imagination, left to its own devices, is not going to do creative things that will help anybody. It's usually just reflexively does worst case scenarios and obsesses about bullshit. So I know those things. So that means that I have to disassemble it when it's happening. So in that way it's helped. Like you said, I don't know that we can fully change our wiring. I think that with some. If you have trauma or whatever, you can process that and maybe integrate that. And I think that's possible. But I think with those kind of things, you just have to have that other side of yourself that's like, you know what you're doing, right? Yeah, but I'm doing it. Yeah, but yeah, if you want to waste your time. So I think that that dialogue, which is cognitive. I think cognitive therapy is helpful because if you can start making different decisions, you know, whether you can, you know, carve new neural pathways, I don't know. But you can at least, you know, fight the good fight and not let it, you know, destroy you and your relationships.

[Mo Mandel]

So you're saying that the best case scenario, or really what you can hope for, which it sounds like you've maybe achieved in a certain sense, is you have a little bit more perspective. You can step back and witness your own.

[Marc Maron]

Well, yeah, you just know that like, all right, this is a thing that I do that's not, you know, it's not serving anything, right? Like my buddy Jerry in recovery, like, you know, if I be spinning out, he'd say, like, what are you getting out of that? Because somebody had said that to him. And then that's a really interesting question. You know, what are you getting out of what you're doing right now? And if you usually break that down, it's just like, oh, I'm just, I'm enabling myself to beat the shit out of myself and, you know, live in this fiction that is driving everyone around me crazy.

[Mo Mandel]

Are you in a good place? Personally?

[Marc Maron]

No.

[Mo Mandel]

Oh, I feel like I remember. You should see you at Tiger Belly. And you seem like. Like you're more like, well, Jesus, I.

[Marc Maron]

Was going through divorces.

[Mo Mandel]

Maybe that's what it was.

[Marc Maron]

I was always in relationships. That made me crazy. Yeah. I'm in a better place for sure.

[Mo Mandel]

I always think of you as a guy. I'm like, he's someone who really, like, clearly has a mind that's not dissimilar to mine in sort of ways that I've tried to work on. But he seems like he's sort of like maybe the sick. Maybe when I hit my mid-50s.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, no, for mid-40s, you'll have enough of it. You'll exhaust something. You know, some You'll. You'll. You'll get someone so fed up or a number of people so fed up that you'll. You'll have to be like, mel, maybe it is me.

[Mo Mandel]

Maybe that's why I got sober. It was purely that. It was just witnessing how much people hated being around me.

[Marc Maron]

Really. How long you been sober?

[Mo Mandel]

10 years, almost.

[Marc Maron]

Really? Did you do it, like, the old school way?

[Mo Mandel]

I did it the classic way. Midway through seasons of a bar show on True tv. Yeah, I got sober. And so then I had to host a whole season of a bar show sober, secretly.

[Marc Maron]

But did you go to meetings and stuff?

[Mo Mandel]

No, I try. I went to one addiction class and I just, like. I just hate groups. I'm such a, like, loner. I should go.

[Marc Maron]

But you don't do anything.

[Mo Mandel]

No.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, good.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So you're just vigilant.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, I was just like. I would. I would binge drink and I would just kind of, like, drink too much. And it was like this perfect thing where, like, I got out of a long relationship and then was on the road for, like, two months straight hosting this bar show for true TV called Bar McGinn.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

So single for the first time. Five years in a bar every day.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

With reality TV crews who are like pirates. They just live, like, road comics.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

And you could just go behind the bar and drink whatever you want. It was amazing. It was so much fun. It was like I could have sex, hook it up with chicks in the online dating I was using.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, it was great.

[Mo Mandel]

And then all of a sudden, it was like, holy shit, I cannot handle this, you know?

[Marc Maron]

Wow. How did that. Why did that happen? What tipped it?

[Mo Mandel]

Just a lot of just, you know, the producers being like, whoa, dude.

[Marc Maron]

Like, we're blackouts.

[Mo Mandel]

Just all kinds of. It just wasn't good. It was just wasn't good. And the producer be like, you know, you're slurring. Like, you're not supposed to be slurring while you're talking. You're, like, hitting on this woman that you're talking to. Like, what are you doing? She owns the bar. So I'm trying to hook up with her, like, what?

[Marc Maron]

The show, man.

[Mo Mandel]

So then I was like. But I was like, I don't want them to fire me. And I was like, if I tell them I'm sober between. Because they were just like, you know, they were like, dude, you're just like, you're not listening to us. You know this. And then I was like, I don't want them to fire me. If I tell them sober, they'd be like, all right, we should replace this guy. So I just showed up, and then I was like, oh, yeah, by the way, I don't drink anymore.

[Marc Maron]

Like, what?

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, a huge part of the show is you trying the cocktails. What do you do? I was like, yeah, we'll just have to fake that. They're like, well, fuck, we're already on the road. I guess we're stuck with this asshole.

[Marc Maron]

And you faked it?

[Mo Mandel]

Oh, I faked it. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And it was an awkward second half of the season there.

[Mo Mandel]

It wasn't as fun. It certainly was not as fun.

[Marc Maron]

And that was 10 years ago.

[Mo Mandel]

2015 or something.

[Marc Maron]

So what made you think you weren't going to be a writer? No, I mean, did you get into comedy thinking you were going to be a writer?

[Mo Mandel]

I wanted to be, like, a novel writer. That's what I really wanted to be in. And then I got into comedy. Same reason I heard somebody else on this podcast talking about it where they're like, yeah, I just got sick of nobody reading my shit. I can write something and say it. So, yeah, I got into comedy, really wanted to be a writer, and I've done some writing, and that's what I want to do.

[Marc Maron]

We sold the show and stuff.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah. It's just like. It's hard to get into those writers rooms, dude.

[Marc Maron]

They don't exist anymore.

[Mo Mandel]

They don't exist anymore. And there's like. I feel like every white guy who's a writer is kind of the same guy.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, no, for sure.

[Mo Mandel]

And they don't. They're not me.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

And I somehow put them off, I think.

[Marc Maron]

Well, they're. They're. They're getting pushed out, too.

[Mo Mandel]

Good. Yeah, not good. Not good.

[Marc Maron]

But where do you start doing comedy outside of England? You come back from England?

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah. So I moved to San Francisco and, you know, got into that scene at a time when it was like, you know, the big guys were like, Louie Katz, you know, Jacob Sirov. Ally came a couple years later. It's kind of weird, you know, comedy's such a, like, impossible thing to get into. But.

[Marc Maron]

So you saw me at the punchline.

[Mo Mandel]

I never did. The first time I ever heard of your name, I think I texted you about this. But Shang Wang said to me one time, he goes, hey, you know, you're kind of stealing a Marc Marrow joke. I'm like, oh, I don't know who that is. So I don't think I am stealing it.

[Marc Maron]

No.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, it was a joke where you're.

[Marc Maron]

On the angry Ashkenaz spectrum.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah. The joke was like, I used. You ever just wake up and you're just like. And people like, what's wrong? Like, I don't know yet. I just got up.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

And I was like, well, I don't think one guy is allowed to have depressive mornings.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I used to do whole joke about. I think I did that joke version of it. I used to have a joke where I got this new self help book. It's really working for me. It's a very simple system. You know, you get a gun, and right when you wake up, you put one bullet in the chamber, spin it, click. I'm like, yeah, carpe diem, you know. But I did do. Yeah, I did do a joke where the first words out of my mouth are fuck, but who cares? Yeah, so. So that's how you knew me. Because I was up there. I'd go up there. Moshe Kashler featured for me back in his kind of white hip hop phase. Oh, yeah, yeah. And I found him very disconcerting. He had an energy that was, like, pretty intense.

[Mo Mandel]

He was real yelly too, but yelly.

[Marc Maron]

And just like, you know, untethered and a little, you know. Yeah, okay. So, yeah, and Ally featured for me once.

[Mo Mandel]

I mean, it's so many great people came out of that. It's crazy weird to think that Hasan Minhaj Ali Wong.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. W come out.

[Mo Mandel]

We were all, like, doing open mics again.

[Marc Maron]

And before that, it was like, you know, Dana Gould.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You had moved out there. DeGeneres, I think, you know, the punchline was a Mecca. There were other people. Robin, you know, Steve Kravitz.

[Mo Mandel]

I had an amazing Ron Williams moment. I was opening for Chappelle, you know, when he first Came back. He would always go to the Punchline and do these like nine hour shows.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Did you stay for him?

[Mo Mandel]

I would stay for one time I did. Then after that I was like, I can't take it, I'm too tired.

[Marc Maron]

I don't know how you're still.

[Mo Mandel]

So one night I opened for Chappelle and midway to the show he goes, there's a young comic here who I think is really good.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

Robin Williams. Rob Williams came out of the crowd.

[Marc Maron]

He went on stage. Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

And then at a certain point, Mosa Deaf showed up. And I'm sitting at the back bar with Ron Williams and Mos Def is like real hip hop doubt. He's got a backpack. And I go to Rob, I'm like, what is he like on his way to school or something? And then before I know it, Rob's on stage. Hello, son. Welcome to school.

[Marc Maron]

Can I take your backpack, please?

[Mo Mandel]

And he's doing the whole thing. And then he starts beatboxing While most Steph and Chappelle battle rap. But it was.

[Marc Maron]

And you were the colonel. He took. You saw exactly how it happened, what.

[Mo Mandel]

Everybody has been talking about.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. It's like it became his thought very quickly.

[Mo Mandel]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

But you were flattered, right? You didn't call. Did you call him out on. It's like, you know, I was going to use that bit when I.

[Mo Mandel]

He. That was one of my best bits.

[Marc Maron]

Was that one of the nights that Tom Waits was hanging around?

[Mo Mandel]

No, but it was an interesting night. Cuz Robin kind of bombed.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

Cuz he tried to like do what Chappelle does. That casual thing.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

And then I heard Robin talking to like Molly or someone in the hallways. Like.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

It's like I, you know, he. See, he's so conversational. I try to do it, but it's just not me. I'm like, it's so weird to think that you could be Robin Williams.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And still be that insecure and still.

[Mo Mandel]

Forget what makes you funny.

[Marc Maron]

Well, you know, he had some, you know, trying times for sure. It wasn't easy for Robin after a certain point, you know, certainly stand up. So when you're starting out, is the competition still happening? And did you do that?

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, yeah, I got third.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, you did?

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, it was pretty awesome.

[Marc Maron]

What year?

[Mo Mandel]

2008.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

Or 2006.

[Marc Maron]

I think I was second in 94.

[Mo Mandel]

Oh, you did? That's pretty good. I just went up there and hosted one of the. One of the semi finals.

[Marc Maron]

Is John Fox still running?

[Mo Mandel]

Doing it.

[Marc Maron]

Did you do Those Fox gigs?

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, my God.

[Mo Mandel]

I still do.

[Marc Maron]

You still do them?

[Mo Mandel]

You gotta make a living.

[Marc Maron]

What's he got left? The underground and he doesn't have that.

[Mo Mandel]

He does like little theater shows every now and then. Yeah, so that's cool. You get to a theater. I don't get to do a lot of theaters. So it's like, if you can do like, you know, 700 people, like, this is awesome. Yeah, I'll do it.

[Marc Maron]

So when you started coming up, how long you been doing standup?

[Mo Mandel]

20 years. I got third in that competition within three years, which is crazy. I didn't even realize it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

So somehow I just like, it's not.

[Marc Maron]

What it used to be.

[Mo Mandel]

Well, thank you. Well, you're really good at this therapy stuff. You really have a knack for it.

[Marc Maron]

I just try to get you, you know, I don't want you to get too, you know, too big headed.

[Mo Mandel]

I just told you, I still do.

[Marc Maron]

John Fox theater gigs and I'm still.

[Mo Mandel]

Busting and I'm still getting the same price. I just tried to get a hundred dollars more out of him.

[Marc Maron]

Are you lucky you get paid?

[Mo Mandel]

He went, he's never not, baby. But literally I'm like, john, this is what you'd give me in like 2011. He's like, take or leave it. I'm like, I'll take it.

[Marc Maron]

So you still go up there and.

[Mo Mandel]

Do them every now and then?

[Marc Maron]

Every now and then, yeah. But 20 years.

[Mo Mandel]

Dude, dude, get this. So in the semifinals when I was in it, the Smothers Brothers were going to be the celebrity judge.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

And this is in 2006. And they canceled and they go, well, we got this food guy, Guy Fieri is going to be the guest judge. And no one had ever heard of him.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Mo Mandel]

And he showed up, he's like, blonde hair, leather jacket. I'm like, who the is this guy?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

And then like six months later, you're like, oh, big.

[Marc Maron]

He's doing pretty well. Yeah. Because of the. The competition was so huge. Like I was in San Francisco 93, 94. I guess it sounds about right. And you know, it was still kind of like it started with like what, 40 guys, 40 comics.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And they still had the shows at the winery, at the Masonic. You know, the finals were at the Masonic. But I know it's kind of the venues have changed and it's kind of become less impactful.

[Mo Mandel]

Most of them are not in San Francisco anymore. They're all over the place. But not really. Not a lot of big venues in San Francisco.

[Marc Maron]

And like, it was weird because I ran into a casting agent just the other night who was a big casting agent back in the day, and she had seen me at the finals because there was no Internet. So they would come up and watch the semis and the finals to see new talent. And it doesn't have that. It didn't have that kind of juice. It kind of went downhill. But did they still have the winery show?

[Mo Mandel]

I think they had a winery show. Either way, I made four grand, which was a huge deal for third.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, it's good.

[Mo Mandel]

And for me, at that point, when I'm working at. I mean, at one point I was working at Pete's Coffee, a taqueria and a bar all in the same block. I was like Bugs. Bugs Bunny.

[Marc Maron]

So I watched the part of the special that you sent me, and what's interesting about it is I've never heard somebody aggressively and proudly own the cuck disposition.

[Mo Mandel]

The cuck disposition? Is that what I was doing?

[Marc Maron]

No, I'm kidding. I just. Of being a kept man in a way.

[Mo Mandel]

Oh, yeah? Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Like. Because I. I think that, you know, you. You can't help and I'm the same way. You can talk about your brain and you're going to talk about your life, but to sort of talk about, like, yeah, my wife makes all the money. It's fucking perfect.

[Mo Mandel]

What?

[Marc Maron]

Are you kidding me? Like, I don't think I've ever really seen that before.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, I mean, I. I don't know how I ended up married to a surgeon.

[Marc Maron]

It's. How did you end up married?

[Mo Mandel]

So I was doing. I was doing a Harvey's in Portland.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

Which was like the B club.

[Marc Maron]

Sure.

[Mo Mandel]

I know that it's gone out of business now. So I'm on stage, you know, I'm like, D. Sober.

[Marc Maron]

I just got vocal cord surgery like, 10 years ago.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, I had to be silent for a month.

[Marc Maron]

Why? Because you yelled your vocal cords out?

[Mo Mandel]

Basically, yeah, I yelled my vocal cords out. I had to get like, what singers have to get.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

So they had to like.

[Marc Maron]

Did you learn how to use your voice properly?

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, okay. I did. Yeah, a little bit. In fact, I did my vocal exercise.

[Marc Maron]

On the way down here, and it really fucked up. It's just from yelling. You're a yelly guy.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, I mean, I'm a little. That's why you notice how conversational I am now on stage. I'm sure you've noticed it. No, but I was louder, you know.

[Marc Maron]

No, you're always loud. And I. I Liked it. I was like, wow, this guy's like, you know, he's you. Mo's going to go up and yell.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, good. Oh, good.

[Marc Maron]

I'm glad.

[Mo Mandel]

That's what people would say at the Colony store hallway. You guys want to go watch Mo? He's going to yell.

[Marc Maron]

I'm good. I'll stay out here.

[Mo Mandel]

I'll hear him. I'll hear him here and I'll walk outside. So I don't hear him.

[Marc Maron]

I don't know if people were saying that. It's just what I was thinking.

[Mo Mandel]

No, I've definitely.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

No, I've for sure. And I would. But even as a kid, I would have, like, a raspy. I would tighten my throat, you know? So this is my first gig on the road. I'm doing a show and. In Portland.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

The B club.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

You know, which I think is always funny with life because, like, if. If I'd gotten what I wanted to do, helium, maybe I would have never met my wife, you know?

[Marc Maron]

Right, right. Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

Luckily, my career was where it was at, and now we got true love.

[Marc Maron]

I believe me, when I started the podcast and I was looking down the barrel at a life of B rooms, I was like, I gotta either die or figure something else out. Someone's got to give.

[Mo Mandel]

I either got to die or I got to marry a urologist. Those are my.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah, okay. So you're at Harvey's.

[Mo Mandel]

So, Matt Harvey's. I see her in the crowd because her. This woman she's with is, like, taking photos with, like, a telescopic lens. I'm just like, what the fuck are you doing? Like, she's like, basically in the front row. I'm like, all right, stop doing that. And then I start talking to this woman, my wife Ashley, and I'm selling my merch, and she kind of just like, leers around. Like, if she was a guy and I was a woman, this would be, like, very creepy behavior. Just kind of, like, loiters around me.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

Selling my T shirts. Meet her. We go out for drinks. This woman is a lesbian who had just befriended my wife.

[Marc Maron]

The camera.

[Mo Mandel]

The camera.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

Aggressive lesbian.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

Where she's like. We're all at drinks and she's showing, like, photos of women she's hooked up with. Like, she's got, like, frat guy vibes.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

And my wife had just moved to Portland, so they have, like, very new friends.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

And I said to my wife, like, you know, who became like, you know, this woman's trying to hook up with you.

[Marc Maron]

Right?

[Mo Mandel]

Like, you do realize that's what's going on. She's like, no.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

She's like, yeah, I hooked up with this chick. Hook up with this chick. I was like, what is going on? Like, it was so bro y. Lesbian. I never experienced it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

Anyway, so I asked my wife to come back with me. The Red Lion. She said I'm not a floozy. Which is funny because I've since found out she's had a ton of one night stands. But that night she threw the door.

[Marc Maron]

Down because she liked you.

[Mo Mandel]

I guess so.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

And then, of course, yes, we met there and then. And as soon as I left, that woman goes, he seems like a bad guy. I get a real bad vibe, you know. And she kind of. Yeah, they never hung out again. Yeah. So I just was like. I was like, when? You know, you know, you know. And I'd been. I'd been single for about four years, like, you know, dating, but no one.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

I didn't want to fall into a relationship because I could do that. So when I met her, I was like, let's just do this. I'm gonna fly up here every other weekend. You're going to fly down to la. Like, let's not go more than two weeks before we see each other.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

Did long distance. She's a dick doctor. She's a surgeon. She's working at Kaiser up there. And. Yeah, and then. And then we got engaged. And then covet happened. I kind of ended up in Portland for basically two years. And then we moved back here and, you know, we've got a kid, got another one on the way, and she just opened a dick doctor practice. So.

[Marc Maron]

Wow. So the COVID sealed the deal.

[Mo Mandel]

Well, we were already. I was nervous. You know, we're talking about neurosis. We had already been engaged. We never lived together. So I'm like, maybe this is like, maybe this is one of those things. Like. But I never lived with her. And then I didn't know she did this.

[Marc Maron]

But you got engaged before you lived together.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, and then Covid happened, so I ended up living with her for six months before we got married. She's like, all right, I know. I can handle it. Yeah, I know she can handle it.

[Marc Maron]

That's so funny. It's like, it's. It was perfect. It's like, no, she. She passed a test. Yeah, the. The mo. Test.

[Mo Mandel]

I mean, I could. I could easily see her being like, this guy. This guy is too much. You know what I mean?

[Marc Maron]

But was that what happened in the other Relationship trips.

[Mo Mandel]

I don't even know. It's like. Yeah. A mixture of booze and yelling. I don't think being sober, I don't think being drinking helped.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Were you yelling?

[Mo Mandel]

No, no, I don't yell. I don't have a bad temper with like. Like that. No.

[Marc Maron]

No.

[Mo Mandel]

I didn't grow up in a place where my father would ever yell at my mom. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

Mostly the opposite.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

So I don't have that instinct.

[Marc Maron]

Well, that's good.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, I think that's good.

[Marc Maron]

So that was a funny joke about. What's that joke in this. In the special. What's the high five joke?

[Mo Mandel]

Oh, saying like, you know, it is because it is concerning when, like, my wife looks at dicks all day.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

You know, they don't have to show her mind. She's like, oh, better than my 3:00. You know, But. But it's not like. But then I have to remind myself, no one goes to the dick. No one goes to the doctor for a high five. And no one's like, got a perfect dick. Like, hey, what do you think of this? I'm pretty good.

[Marc Maron]

Why are you here? What do you think of this high five?

[Mo Mandel]

What do you have a high five? Yeah. And so. But it is weird. I mean, it's like during COVID This is true. And I talk about the special. But like, you know, she was working at Kaiser up there, so I would.

[Marc Maron]

She.

[Mo Mandel]

And they shut down the Kaisers for a while. So I would hear her in her room on zoom with people. I'm like, are they showing her dick on zoom?

[Marc Maron]

Is that what's going on?

[Mo Mandel]

Like, we just got married. Like, what the going on?

[Marc Maron]

It's. It's. It's an interesting thing where the. The dick pic takes a different. It's a different agenda.

[Mo Mandel]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah. She was looking at dicks in there. Right.

[Mo Mandel]

I'm sure she was a live. Live streaming dick.

[Marc Maron]

Live streaming dicks.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Sick dicks. Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

She could have just combined it with an Only fans. We could have a better house.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. The fetish of sick dicks.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah. So now she just opened this sexual medicine practice in Pasadena and she's also.

[Marc Maron]

What does that mean?

[Mo Mandel]

She's just like. Just sexual dysfunction and sexual medicine.

[Marc Maron]

Like the angle. Yeah, that's the angle.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

STDs and boner drugs.

[Mo Mandel]

I don't think STDs. I think that more just like vaginal estrogen, all this kind of stuff. Like, I heard pieces of on the phone while she does these meetings. And I don't really?

[Marc Maron]

How to make your sex life better.

[Mo Mandel]

How to make it better. Less painful.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Mo Mandel]

This is actually funny because our house has all these, like, dick books.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

Like, and on the shelves, like, you know, what to do when sex hurts. You know, male impotency. All these kind of things. And we're moving. I noticed one of the movers was like, big burly guy holding the couch. He looks over and she's like, what to do when your penis doesn't work. I'm looking. I'm like, these are my books. These are. These are my wife's books. She doesn't have a penis either, by the way. And he was like, okay, dude, whatever. I'll just move your couch for you.

[Marc Maron]

That's funny. Yeah, it's like that Bargazzi joke about, you know, when the. They come to fix the water cooler or the water heater and the. The guy show up at the door and he's like, I don't know where it is. I don't. I think it's here. I don't know.

[Mo Mandel]

Oh, that's over.

[Marc Maron]

And. And. And they were trying to be progressive, and they go, was your husband home? And he's like, yeah, she's out in the shed, I think, because his wife does all that stuff at the house.

[Mo Mandel]

So. Good. That's so good.

[Marc Maron]

But do you find that. So are you. Do you get to spend more time with the kid and Is that the way it works or.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, I mean, she.

[Marc Maron]

She.

[Mo Mandel]

Like I said, she started this practice now, so she's like. She's not, like, doing these crazy Kaiser gone all day shifts. And I've stopped going on the road for a while because, like, it's just, you know, it's just. It's too unbearable to be away from your kid.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

Like, you know, that's good. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You feel that could be the other way.

[Mo Mandel]

It could be the other way. Yeah. Maybe as she gets older, it will.

[Marc Maron]

Be the other way.

[Mo Mandel]

We'll see.

[Marc Maron]

I don't know how far along. I take it back.

[Mo Mandel]

I take it back. I take it back. I take it back.

[Marc Maron]

I take it back. He takes it back. He takes it back. He takes it back. He takes it back.

[Mo Mandel]

She's almost 2, and then we got a son on the way.

[Marc Maron]

Wow. How pregnant is she?

[Mo Mandel]

Two in January.

[Marc Maron]

Wow.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You're doing the whole thing.

[Mo Mandel]

Doing the whole thing, dude. I. Yeah, but, like, it's weird, though, because, like, I love standup, but then I'm like, what if I had a great career? Yeah, well, what would that. What would that mean facing facetime, my kid all the time, like, it's.

[Marc Maron]

Well, you're fortunate it's not happening.

[Mo Mandel]

People listening, like, don't worry about it, you'll be fine. Yeah, yeah. So guys, don't stream the special because God forbid I have to go on the road.

[Marc Maron]

Do not make mo more successful. Where is the Special?

[Mo Mandel]

It's on 800 pound Gorillaz YouTube channel. It's trying to make it. Yeah, it's all about, you know, because it took us like two years of fertility issues.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, really? With the urologist?

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And she was hip to that stuff.

[Mo Mandel]

She couldn't dissolve it magically enough.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

So actually sometimes in life problems equal good solutions. And the WGA had just put fertility coverage into their benefits. And I was about to lose my WGA insurance because you have to make a certain amount of money every year.

[Marc Maron]

Where'd you have it from?

[Mo Mandel]

I sold a screenplay in 2020, like an action movie.

[Marc Maron]

And so you're writing?

[Mo Mandel]

That's what I want to do.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

I just really want to be like, yeah, I wish I like every day, if I could just wake up, drink coffee and be creative all day and sit in front of you, that would be my happy place. And play with my kid at night, hang out with my wife.

[Marc Maron]

That sounds like what you're doing. No.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, yeah. And then get the next kid here, you know, play with him. Like, that's what I want to do. But I need to, like, I just, I don't know, I just need to get more. I don't know. It's good, but I need, I need more of that.

[Marc Maron]

So you had a few months on that insurance?

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, so I had a few months of insurance. And they were like, oh. I was like, oh, we can do ivf. You know, because we had had a miscarriage. That was just like brutal.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

I actually made a video of this that, oddly enough, where I'm doing stand up about the miscarriage to just my wife in a comedy club in Helium. Yeah, it's like this weird, dark short film of a stand up set and I was really worried to post it and actually had a lot of like really good, like, people had miscarriages.

[Marc Maron]

Like, oh, it helped people.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah. But for us it was like helpful to like do something.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

So anyway, so we have like two months left and I'm like, we gotta do this ivf. So we get going. And they just took so long. The place in Portland, like, they were like to schedule the appointments to do this. It was so much just like inept. You Know, for whatever reason it was. And then by the time they finally got around to giving us the thing before. Right before she got pregnant, and then I lost the insurance.

[Marc Maron]

Wow.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah. Worked out.

[Marc Maron]

Worked out.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, that happens, man. You know what I mean? Yeah. There were no drugs. It was just a. You know, it's just one of your sperm finally found a way through those little.

[Mo Mandel]

Finally figured out. It is a very weird thing that. Trying to have kids think. Because it's like you spend your whole life terrified you're gonna have kids.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

And then. And then you're like, hit your 40s or whatever and you're like, I should probably think about doing that.

[Marc Maron]

If you want to do it. Yeah. I never did it.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, you never thought about it.

[Marc Maron]

I don't. I, like, for reasons that you seem to have overcome and you don't give enough self. Enough credit. I just knew that because of the way I'm. I am emotionally and mentally because of the way I was brought up, that. The fact I didn't think about it much. And when I did think about it, I really questioned my ability because of my brain and my emotional structure. Like, I just. It didn't. It was never a priority to me. So why do it? You know, that must be telling. Yeah. I wasn't just sort of like, I don't want kids. I'm like, you know, I just don't think about it. So I'm not gonna do it. I don't think about it either way. I knew I didn't want them, but it was mostly out of my own fear of my mental disposition. So, you know, I'm okay.

[Mo Mandel]

You mean out of a fear of the kind of father you would be?

[Marc Maron]

I think I'd be okay, but I think it would be fleeting. Like, I don't think I'd be a bad father, but I'm just so anxious and so prone to panic that I didn't want to, you know, really put myself through that or put a kid through that.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

My brother ended up with three adopted kids, and, you know, he did all right, but it just. I was just afraid. And I don't. And again, I don't have any regrets about it. So I'm not fucked up about it.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah. I think unless you really. Yeah, it's hard. It's hard. Like, unless you really want to do it, there's no reason to do it. But I'm in this thing now where I don't really know because, like, I love doing stand up. I'm actually one of those guys who loves being on the road before I have. I like family.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

I enjoy it.

[Marc Maron]

I go. Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

I feel like I live healthier. I go to the gym all the time.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. You learn how to do it.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah, I ride a lot.

[Marc Maron]

Nice and quiet.

[Mo Mandel]

You don't have to take your car in. You can't deal with buffering your girlfriend's car.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

Nothing you could do.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

And. But so now I'm just like, what do I do? Because I love going on the road and doing standup, but I don't know how to. So what. I guess my hope is that I'll keep doing stand up around LA all the time, Go every now and then, get a huge career by the time my kids go to college, and then I'll just, like, be on the road when I'm 60, I guess.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, but it sounds like you're. You're chipping away at the writing and, you know, despite whatever anyone thinks about AI, I mean, writing and doing original stuff is still, you know, it still happens.

[Mo Mandel]

By the way, I had a Marin AI experience two days ago. So you had text me to come to the podcast, which I was stoked about. And. And then I looked at my junk email and I had a thing like, hey, come do Mark Ryan's.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. What is that? Everyone's getting them.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah. And a bunch of podcasts are like, Some of them are like, come to Bobby Altos podcast, we'll pay you $4,000.

[Marc Maron]

I got that one.

[Mo Mandel]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

I don't think it's real.

[Marc Maron]

No, it's not.

[Mo Mandel]

Anyway, yours is hilarious because it's so clearly written by AI.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

I should have written it down, but this is how it describes your podcast. Come on. Mark Brown's podcast to discuss life, some of the sadder parts of life, comedy, entertainment, and politics, including socialism.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, my God.

[Mo Mandel]

So that's what AI has deduced, your podcast.

[Marc Maron]

Is that what's generating those.

[Mo Mandel]

It's got to be the way this is written. It literally says politics, period. Including socialism, period. They're after me and I almost fell for. I was like, oh, shit. Do I get a.

[Marc Maron]

How do you feel about socialism?

[Mo Mandel]

I'm a big fan.

[Marc Maron]

Good talking to you, buddy. Yeah.

[Mo Mandel]

Thank you for having me on. This has been great.

[Marc Maron]

There you go. That was Mo. You can watch Mo's special. Trying to make it on YouTube. Hang out for a minute. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart Choice. Progressive loves to help people make smart choices. That's why they offer a tool called Auto Quote Explorer that allows you to compare your Progressive car insurance quote with rates from other companies so you save time on the research and can enjoy savings when you choose the best rate for you. Give it a try after this episode of progressive.com progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy, folks, if you're looking for something to distract you over the next few days, we have thousands of hours of WTF episodes that you can listen to ad free with a WTF subscription. Go all the way back to the beginning and start with episode one. It's exactly what I said. It's like listening to the history of Jewish show business. There's just a cadence that you can follow back right from him, all the way back to probably Myron Cohen or whoever it was who performed for the pharaohs in Egypt to keep from being killed. But I think we should leave this part on the podcast. Whatever just happened, the abrupt stop because I didn't know what was supposed to happen, although I did on some level know what was supposed to happen. And then the seamless segue into my next WTF story, which happens to revolve around Ralph Lauren. I don't shop at Ralph oh, now I can't do the R and the L at the same time. I have a speech impediment. I have rolling Ls and I say them like ours because I don't put my tongue at the top of my mouth. I'd say L's like ours, like LA la. That's the right way. But I go LA la so it's over my throat doesn't matter. And then keep listening for as long as you want. Depending on how things go this week, maybe you just keep listening forever. To sign up for WTF plus, go to the link in the episode description or go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF Plus. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast. I'm not getting the hang of this looper, but I'm going to keep doing it.

[Mo Mandel]

Sa.

[Marc Maron]

Boomer Lives Monkey and Launda Cat Angels everywhere.