Episode 1591 - Josh Brolin

Summary

WTF with Marc Maron Podcast – Episode 1591: Josh Brolin

Release Date: November 14, 2024
Guest: Josh Brolin
Host: Marc Maron
Podcast Description: Marc Maron invites comedians, actors, directors, writers, authors, musicians, and individuals from diverse backgrounds to engage in deeply revealing conversations. Marc's probing interview style uncovers new facets of his guests, offering listeners fresh insights and personal stories.

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Introduction

In Episode 1591 of WTF with Marc Maron, Marc welcomes actor Josh Brolin back to the show. Josh returns to discuss his latest memoir, "From Under the Truck," and delves into personal stories about his struggles with addiction, his journey in writing, and his approach to acting. The conversation offers an intimate look into Josh's life, creative process, and the lessons he's learned over the years.

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Josh Brolin's Memoir: "From Under the Truck"

Marc begins by expressing his admiration for Josh's new memoir, highlighting its poetic sensibility and truthful expression. He remarks on the book's structure, which features short, standalone chapters that function almost like prose poems, making it highly readable.

Marc Maron [Timestamp: 09:45]: "The new memoir, it's called From Under the Truck, he wrote the fuck out of it. He wrote a thing, and it's all him, and you can feel it."

Josh elaborates on his writing process, explaining that much of the memoir is derived from his personal journals. He emphasizes that while the book contains rewritten stories, it remains deeply rooted in his authentic experiences.

Josh Brolin [Timestamp: 73:07]: "Everything's rewritten, but I would say at least half the stories are just kind of stories that came to me and I said... It's all about the memories that actually mattered."

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Personal Struggles with Addiction

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on Josh's past struggles with addiction. He shares a harrowing experience from his time in the Middle East, where he battled with substance abuse, particularly fentanyl and heroin. Josh recounts a moment of intense panic and the subsequent realization of his need to change.

Josh Brolin [Timestamp: 16:17]: "I start running out and there's a Hungarian guy who comes up to me and we're in Jordan. And he comes up to me and he says, I have some... It has a skull and crossbones on the top."

Marc draws parallels between his own experiences and Josh's, discussing the pervasive nature of addiction and its impact on personal lives.

Marc Maron [Timestamp: 10:21]: "It's addiction. It's pure addiction."

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Writing Process and Journaling

Josh discusses his meticulous approach to writing his memoir, which involved extensive journaling over the years. He explains how his journals serve as a foundation for his stories, sparking memories that he then expands upon in his writing.

Josh Brolin [Timestamp: 73:07]: "I take any... Everything from a journal. So I would look at a journal. It would spark a memory, and then I would riff on the memory."

Marc emphasizes the difference between journal entries and the polished narratives presented in memoirs, highlighting Josh's ability to transform personal reflections into engaging stories.

Marc Maron [Timestamp: 28:26]: "You're doing it in chapters, and each chapter kind of functions on its own as almost a prose poem."

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Acting Approaches and Vulnerability

The conversation naturally shifts to Josh's acting career, where both Marc and Josh explore the nuances of their craft. Josh shares his experiences on set, particularly his role in the movie Sharon Stone, describing the challenges and emotional depth required.

Josh Brolin [Timestamp: 37:11]: "I got a scene with Sharon Stone that just changed my fucking life."

Marc relates by discussing his own role in a movie where he portrayed an actor grappling with cancer, expressing concerns about delivering a credible performance.

Marc Maron [Timestamp: 36:33]: "I'm playing this guy Langston, who's known for this sitcom, but he's a great actor... If I don't make those fucking things credible, the whole thing goes to Shawn."

Both hosts delve into the importance of authenticity in acting, the struggle to access genuine emotions, and the impact of influential mentors like Al Pacino and Sam Shepard.

Marc Maron [Timestamp: 40:40]: "He had these five things... Why are you there? Where'd you come from? What is this?"

Josh Brolin [Timestamp: 32:00]: "I was trying to impress Sam Shepard."

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Reflections on Relationships and Family

Josh opens up about his familial relationships, particularly his relationship with his ex-wife and the impact of his mother's experiences on his life. He shares a poignant story about his mother's time in Camarillo State Hospital, highlighting her resilience and the influence it had on him.

Josh Brolin [Timestamp: 51:31]: "She was put in Camarillo State Hospital and spent three and a half weeks... She got her to speak after a girl had been mute for 12 years."

Marc and Josh discuss the complexities of family dynamics and the long-term effects of parental actions on one's personal development and coping mechanisms.

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Coping Mechanisms and Therapy

The discussion touches on coping strategies for dealing with trauma and addiction. Josh talks about incorporating ice baths into his routine, which has had a significant positive impact on his well-being.

Josh Brolin [Timestamp: 76:24]: "I've been doing ice baths for 20 years... It has lifted me because I've been doing it every single morning."

Marc connects this practice to his own methods of handling stress and personal challenges, reinforcing the importance of physical and mental resilience.

Marc Maron [Timestamp: 76:26]: "You gotta do it."

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Conclusion

As the episode draws to a close, Marc and Josh reflect on their journeys toward self-acceptance and personal growth. They emphasize the value of vulnerability, authenticity, and the continual effort to understand oneself amidst life's chaos.

Josh Brolin [Timestamp: 75:22]: "This book is a thousand percent me. We're left with just being who we are."

Marc Maron [Timestamp: 80:35]: "It's the nature of us. And the thing you were saying earlier... I'm thinking about today because I got to do standup."

The episode ends on a note of mutual respect and encouragement, with Josh expressing his admiration for Marc's ability to balance comedy with deep, meaningful conversations.

Notable Quotes

• Josh Brolin [15:43]: "I start running out and there's a Hungarian guy who comes up to me and we're in Jordan. And he comes up to me and he says, I have some... It has a skull and crossbones on the top."

• Marc Maron [16:08]: "It's addiction. It's pure addiction."

• Josh Brolin [26:16]: "I feel like I got to keep up."

• Marc Maron [28:26]: "You're doing it in chapters, and each chapter kind of functions on its own as almost a prose poem."

• Josh Brolin [37:11]: "I got a scene with Sharon Stone that just changed my fucking life."

• Josh Brolin [73:07]: "I take any... Everything from a journal. So I would look at a journal. It would spark a memory, and then I would riff on the memory."

• Marc Maron [40:40]: "He had these five things... Why are you there? Where'd you come from? What is this?"

• Josh Brolin [51:31]: "She was put in Camarillo State Hospital and spent three and a half weeks... She got her to speak after a girl had been mute for 12 years."

• Josh Brolin [76:24]: "I've been doing ice baths for 20 years... It has lifted me because I've been doing it every single morning."

• Josh Brolin [75:22]: "This book is a thousand percent me. We're left with just being who we are."

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Final Thoughts

Episode 1591 serves as a candid exploration of Josh Brolin's personal and professional life. Through honest dialogue, Marc Maron and Josh navigate topics ranging from addiction and family dynamics to the intricate process of writing a memoir and the depth of acting. Listeners gain a profound understanding of Josh's resilience, creative spirit, and the ongoing journey toward self-discovery and authenticity.

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Note: This summary excludes advertisements, introductory remarks, and non-content segments to focus solely on the substantive conversation between Marc Maron and Josh Brolin.

Transcript

[Mark Marin]

By now you've heard about Airbnb and how you can make some extra money while you're away. But did you also know you can host on Airbnb and have someone else take care of all the details for you? If you're going away for a long trip, an Airbnb co host can handle all the hosting duties. These are high quality local co hosts who create the listing for you, manage your reservations and send messages to your guests. And you'll still make some cash while you're away. It's easier than ever. Find a co [e-mail] host lock the gate. All right, let's do this. How are you? What the. What the Buddies? What the Nicks? What's happening? I'm Mark Marin. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. One of the original podcasts. A classic WTF is a classic podcast. I hope you're all doing okay. I'm going to live my life. I'm going to check in, I'm going to, you know, get overly caught up in the day to day drama of my small life, which has probably a little more time than some of you because, you know, I'm self employed. I do this, I do the stand up, I do the acting, I do, you know, but I mean, it's a lot of work. But I can make time to fill my life with errands of purpose, errands of meaning. The things that make up my life, the things that bring me joy and engagement outside of talking to people, either in here or in comedy clubs, theaters, just the day to day and getting things done that just come up, that is the bulk of my life. Look around your life, pull out of the phone and just look at how small and simple a lot of times your life is. Think about the number of blocks or miles that you really engage or travel with in your life. Think about the people along the way. Don't think about whatever the phone is doing to your brain. As soon as you turn it on, all of a sudden you're connected to this universe of fucking psychic garb. Slow it down. Take a walk, say hi to the guy at the place, you know what I'm saying? Today on the show, Josh Brolin is back. He's out. He's out making the rounds with his book, which is very good. And the last time he was here was in 2018, episode 9 15. He was actually the first guest in the new garage, which was not set up really. And I like the guy, he's just one of those guys. I went out to Meet him. And I looked at him, I'm like, all right. Okay, Brolin, what's up? What do you got? I thought we hit it up pretty good. I just like the guy. But the new memoir, it's called from under the Truck, he wrote the fuck out of it. He wrote a thing, and it's all him, and you can feel it. And he's got a poetic sensibility. He's, you know, he has a desire to express himself in a truthful way and think about things in relation to his life experience. And it was. I enjoyed it. And it's written in short chapters so you can do a piece at a time. But I actually really liked it. And I like talking to him again. We had some laughs, talked about the Zins, you know? I'll be back touring starting in January. Sacramento, California. I'll be at the Crest Theater on Friday, January 10th. Napa, California, at the Uptown Theater on Saturday, January 11th. I'm in Fort Collins, Colorado, at Lincoln Center Performance hall on Friday, January 17th. Boulder, Colorado, at the Boulder Theater on Saturday, January 18th. Santa Barbara, California, at the Libero Theater on Thursday, January 30th. San Luis Obispo, California, at the Fremont center on Friday, January 31st. And Monterey, California at the Golden State Theater on Saturday, February 1st. Go to wtfpod.com tour for all my dates and links to tickets. Also, send in your questions for an upcoming Ask Mark Anything bonus episode. Go to the link in the episode description and submit a question there. Then subscribe to the full Marin so you can hear my answers. I as I said before, I'm focusing on important small things. The poetry of life. Someone sent me a box of walnuts. I got too many walnuts. It was a gift. It was half a joke gift because I've been talking about walnut oil and walnuts and omega 3s or whatever. So I got like, you know, too many walnuts. And I thought I'd put five walnuts out in front of my house for the squirrels. And I wondered when I did it, like, can they handle a walnut? The squirrels don't they have the teeth. That does the nut thing. Isn't that what they're kind of about? And it's been a few hours and no takers, so I don't know. But, you know, it was interesting to think about. And now I have something to look at. Sort of like looking at the rat traps down in my basement, you know, opposite ends of the spectrum, but both involve rodents. But I think one is definitely much nicer than the other one. Look this episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. And this month is all about gratitude. We all set aside time to be thankful for what we have in life. For family, for friends. I'm thankful for having all of you out there listening. But there's another person we probably don't thank enough ourselves. It's sometimes hard to remind ourselves that we are all trying our best to make sense of this crazy world. And that ain't easy. Here's a reminder to send some thanks to the people in your life, including yourself. And if you're having trouble giving yourself some thanks, a therapist can help you out. Being grateful for yourself isn't just about giving yourself a pat on the back. It means giving yourself some mental relaxation and self care. Yeah, I'll say. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online and it's designed to be convenient, flexible and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com wtftoday to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp H E L p.com WTF Now I could tell you about the. The vacuum insanity, but I don't want you to judge me. But this is just sort of where it's errands with purpose errands. That's what my life is built on. That's what I enjoy doing. Some of them are deeper than others. But I got into sort of a vacuum shit show. You want to hear about it? I'll tell you about it. Okay, so I have this Dyson. I like Dysons. I have an animal too. Dysons, despite the story I'm going to tell you, are kind of the best vacuum. And there's not a paid promotion. You just. It's just once you have a Dyson, it's hard to have anything else because they're just. It's like. It's like a jet engine vacuum and they look cool. I've been a Dyson guy for a while now. A while back, about a year or two, About a year and a half ago, I had a Dyson Animal One maybe. And I'd had it for years and it broke fine. So then I had the other one. I had this other Animal two vacuum, a Dyson that I've only had for maybe less than two years. And it broke the same way that other fucking one broke. So obviously this is a Dyson problem and the woman. I have a person that cleans my house a couple times a month because it's a house. And as much as I'd like to think I could clean it all, it won't be as good as a person cleaning it. So she cleans my house and she said she broke the vacuum or it broke. I'm not going to blame her. It broke the same way the other one did. And I'm like, all right, well, fuck it. Now I got to get a new vacuum. But this one feels pretty new, so maybe I should go get this one fixed. But that could take weeks. So anyway, she said, yeah, get a new vacuum. So I bought one online. I don't know why I bought. I went to Amazon. The Sparks vacuum, I think it's Sparks as the brand. I'm not sure. They had a lot of high reviews. It was like $100 and it looked like a vacuum. So I bought it. Not. Yeah. And I knew in the back of my mind, dude, it's a $100 vacuum. How is that going to fucking compare? I mean, there's no way it can be good. But I bought it and it came. And then, you know, a couple days later she goes, I'd like to get one of those broom style vacuums. You know, the kind with the handle that's got the suction on the handle. Like a Dyson, like a, like a V11. I thought, you know, you charge it up and you know, that's supposed to be pretty good. So I had the Sparks vacuum. Then I'm like, well, fuck you, I want this vacuum. So I got the other Dyson, the V11. I thought, well, that's, you know, it's smaller, it seems more compact. I'll just get that and, and I'll get the other one fixed it, you know, whenever I get it fixed. And so I got the two vacuums. So she comes and she's like, she doesn't like the broom vacuum, the Dyson V11, because it doesn't hold a charge for shit. And you gotta hold the trigger. You gotta hold the trigger to vacuum. It doesn't just turn on and go. And so she's like, I can't. I don't want to use this. And I'm like, all right. And then we tried the Sparks vacuum and that was garbage. Didn't work. Didn't. Had. Didn't suck. Didn't suck. It sucks because it doesn't suck. So now I got three vacuums. One is broken and I'm like, fuck. And then I was going to send back the V11 and return it, but to disassemble a vacuum and then repack it in the box it came in, it's. It's not worth the time. Just take the hit. And so I'm like, well, I'll just put that vacuum in the fucking garage. There's no way. It's going to take me hours. And I went and looked up a video to figure out how to repack the fucking Dyson. And there's a guy on there, but even he's not confident. And I'm like, God damn it, fuck this. I'll just keep the fucking vacuum. I'll give the sparks one to somebody. But now, like, I've got these, you know, three vacuums, one broken Dyson. And I'm mad. I'm mad at Dyson, you know, because I got to go over to the repair center. But it's an errand with purpose. I can go over there and go like, this isn't even 2 years old. I mean, what the fuck? I don't even know if I have a warranty. Don't.

[Josh Brolin]

Can't you.

[Mark Marin]

Is there somewhere you can check? I mean, I wouldn't yell, but there was purpose to it. I got three vacuums, one broken, two of which not usable. Fucking three vacuums. And I'm driving back from somewhere yesterday and I'm just. I can't get it out of my mind. I'm like, fuck, dude, you just bought that animal too, you know, a couple years ago, and it's fucked. But, you know, you're not. You're going to want to buy a Dyson, you know, it's just like. So I get on my phone, I'm looking at Target, and I was like, fighting myself, but I went to Target and I bought an animal three. So now I have four fucking vacuums. And there's something about buying things out of spite, but I don't know who I'm spiting. I'm spiting me. I made a mistake. I bought two vacuums that were not usable for my situation. So I'm like, well, fuck me, I'm just going to keep buying fucking vacuums. And granted, I know that this is a luxury problem and I have the means to continue to buy vacuums. Probably quite a few more, actually. Not bragging, but I could probably afford another two vacuums. So now I got four vacuums, one broken Dyson and one Dyson in a box that I'll take out of the box so the next time she comes, she can clean with it because I want her to have what she wants. But I got four vacuums now. So yesterday I'm like, I'm gonna go to the Dyson place. I've been there before. I drive out to the valley to the Dyson place, says it's open on the Google Maps. And I get there and the store's not there anymore. The repair shop is gone. It's gone. So I was all ready to be like, you know, yeah, this shouldn't happen to a vacuum after two years. You know, I had purpose, an errand with purpose. Just. Just dashed, dashed. No Dyson place there. So I called Dyson. Then there's another place. It's out past Downey. It's like an hour plus away. And I'm like, oh, fuck. So now I got the broken, crippled vacuum in my car. I don't know if I'm. I just don't know if I'm going to get out there. But it is. It is one of those things where, like, hey, when. When shit is fucked up and chaos rains and you've got a spare hour, maybe you got a little trip out there, trip out past Downey to go to the Dyson store to get a little justice. But right now I have four vacuums. One in a box, one dead in my car, one on my porch that was garbage to begin with, and one out here, which I kind of like. So what is the moral of this story? I don't know. Someone might get a gift, somebody might get a vacuum. Somebody I love might get a vacuum. Hey, don't worry about being away for the holidays, folks. Now is the best time of year to get home security. Because right now, Simplisafe is giving exclusive early access to its Black Friday sale. For WTF listeners. We've been recommending SimpliSafe since 2016 as the best home security, and right now, it's also the best deal possible. Simplisafe stops intruders before they break into your home. Older systems only take action once somebody is already inside. That's too late. Simplisafe's Active Guard Outdoor Protection changes the game by preventing crime before it even happens. If someone's lurking around or acting suspiciously, the Simplisafe agents see them in real time, talk to them directly. Hey, pal, what are you doing? And now, here's the Simplisafe Black Friday sale that you're getting early access to. As WTF listeners this week, you can take 60% off any new system with a select professional monitoring plan. This is their best offer of the year. Head to SimpliSafe.com WTF to claim your discount and make sure your home is safe this season. Don't wait. This offer won't last long. Keep your home, your family and your peace of mind protected. With Simplisafe. There's no safe like Simplisafe. So look, Josh Brolin wrote a very good book. It's a memoir. It's about him. I like things about individuals. I've often been criticized as someone who talks too much about himself, but that's all I know. That is true. You know what I'm saying? It's coming right from me. But I like the book. I like him. The memoir. The book from under the Truck, it's called, comes out next Tuesday, November 19th. You can pre order it now. And this is a return visit with Josh Brolin. Life is busy, people. And if you're like me, no matter how busy you get, you've got to get your fitness in. Peloton has a variety of challenging classes and programs that fit into your schedule. Whether you're a new parent or traveling for the holiday or training for something big or just busy like everyone else. From four week strength building classes to running, cycling and everything in between, Peloton can adapt to any goal and need during your busiest times. Find your push, find your power with [e-mail] Now I want to double up on this end. You walk in, you're walking. That's so funny. I'm going to my door to let you in.

[Josh Brolin]

No, you literally have it in your hand. I have it in my hand. So. No, this is the story that I was going to tell you is I was in the Middle east and I was working.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And I started to run out and somebody had given me 110 panic. It was a. It's, it's a true panic.

[Mark Marin]

It's. It's addiction. It's pure addiction. But you, it's, it's all the trappings. Of what? Of addiction. Without it being damaging to your life in the way that.

[Josh Brolin]

Well, especially now where people say like Lard Hamilton and, and it's true. They said like if you do one to three milligrams a day, it's actually good for you.

[Mark Marin]

What about 20?

[Josh Brolin]

It's good for you. What about. How about 90? How about 90, dude? So I'm in the Middle east and I start running out and there's a Hungarian guy who comes up to me and we're in Budapest or we're in Jordan.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Now we're In Jordan. And he comes up to me and he says, I have some. And it has a skull and crossbones on the top.

[Mark Marin]

You don't know what it is.

[Josh Brolin]

And it's 40 milligram packets. And I said, I can't do that. Yeah, I can't do that.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And then one day I start running out, and I haven't quite run out. I probably have four or five more tins left.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And I have his thing in my pocket, and I had gone to the gym, and I'm running back from the gym and I go, man, I can't. I have to keep mine. So I'm going to use. I'm going to use the fentanyl and save the heroin.

[Mark Marin]

Right?

[Josh Brolin]

Right. And then I stick the thing in my mouth for no more. And I swear to God on my kids for no more than 20 seconds.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And I had to cancel dinner that night. I literally my brains out. It was crazy. So now I'm in Abu Dhabi. Now we've run out. Yeah, I got it. Black market. There was a guy that we found, a really, like, pumped up, like, Schwarzenegger type, but he was Middle Eastern.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And he showed up and. And it cost me 300 bucks to get how many? I don't know, like, six tins or something.

[Mark Marin]

Well, yeah, I was. I had the same thing. Just a panic. I was working in Canada for three months, and they don't sell Zin. Zins. And then the smoke shops have these different things. They're Chinese bootleg things. But the. But both of us having had a history with drugs, I mean, this. It's so real. And the same thing goes through your head. It's like, this is crazy. It's just fucking. But, you know, you get up and you're like, fuck, I gotta get back. I got me backup. I need a. I need about six. I bought two rolls.

[Josh Brolin]

Two rolls.

[Mark Marin]

No, no. Just for the week to make sure I had it.

[Josh Brolin]

I know I have them all over the house, by the way. My wife and I used to do this. Oh. Oh, you know, Remember the mini. The mini. Oh, fuck Lozenges.

[Mark Marin]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

They were kind of Nicorette. It looked like a penis with. With peon disease. It just had. It had a curve. It wasn't the straight one.

[Mark Marin]

It wasn't Nicorette.

[Josh Brolin]

And.

[Mark Marin]

Oh, yeah, the curve.

[Josh Brolin]

The curve bottle.

[Mark Marin]

Those go away in two seconds.

[Josh Brolin]

And they're. And they're. They go away in two seconds, but they taste like gasoline. And they. A punch to them. But I used to keep them up by my. Between my gum and my tooth line.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

I got seven cavities from that. That's why I switched to this.

[Mark Marin]

Well, because. Why is there sugar in those?

[Josh Brolin]

There's a ton of sugar, and there's no sugar in there.

[Mark Marin]

Well, I was doing Los, and I've done. But I won't go to. I won't do.

[Josh Brolin]

I won't do dip night. Yeah, I did. I did dip when I was young, and then I did dip when I was doing that series, dude, when I.

[Mark Marin]

When. When someone turned me on to snooze. Like the Swedish.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

I was ordering it from Sweden. From Sweden. And they made stuff in Sweden where I would put it in and I'd, like. I'd get up, I'd put it in, and I got to sit down and sweat and, like, some, you know.

[Josh Brolin]

Isn't there something, though, in your throwback? You know, you're a sober guy. I'm a sober guy. But you're actually throwing back. And there's something exciting about the. Amen. It's Mark.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Can you get me some shit? And you're like, all right, mellow out, dude. You're fucking old and sober now.

[Mark Marin]

I know, but it's. It's so crazy, the chasing, like. And then you got to deal with these. You got to be like, where am I going to spit this out?

[Josh Brolin]

I know.

[Mark Marin]

I'm about to do a scene. I'm going to stick it on my hand because there's still stuff in it.

[Josh Brolin]

Well, have kids.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

I mean, have young kids.

[Mark Marin]

You can't have them ready.

[Josh Brolin]

Take it out. And my wife would hear this.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

In the middle of the night. I don't even know I'm doing it. I'm asleep. I have a pouch in my lip. And I'm not lying 24 hours a day. Yeah, 24 hours a day. Then I started taking them out and putting them on the bedside table, and then my kid would pick it up at two years old, which is really. Maybe there's not any nicotine. Maybe there's not any danger. Right. But if she puts it in her mouth, she's going to get sick.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And instead of stopping, I try and teach them. Yeah. Don't do that.

[Mark Marin]

Stay away from daddy's.

[Josh Brolin]

Daddy's shit. Daddy needs that.

[Mark Marin]

I just. I can't. I'm so glad that we're talking about this because. But do you. Do you get obsessed with. Are you obsessed in any way with the. That there might be. Might be bad for you?

[Josh Brolin]

No.

[Mark Marin]

Good for you. Me Neither. Kind of.

[Josh Brolin]

Kind of. All right, everyone. I think you have that predilition where you kind of like look for the negative where I looked at. I do. I just sensed that across the table you have a hammer on your table. A knife.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, it's my hobby, Josh.

[Josh Brolin]

It's.

[Mark Marin]

I get up and I'm like, I feel all right.

[Josh Brolin]

Like, I feel good today. But there's probably for no good fucking.

[Mark Marin]

Reason, I can spend the day worrying.

[Josh Brolin]

The world is going to shit.

[Mark Marin]

Well, that's clear.

[Josh Brolin]

I know. No, man, I don't. I don't. I. I don't. I know it's bad, but if you.

[Mark Marin]

Chew, yeah, you chew.

[Josh Brolin]

It's not one of those things that you're going to get your jaw cut out, but you go back to this thing where you go, you know, it's a. To Beto. It's a tomato based gauze that's surrounding the nicotine. It's all so full of. I don't.

[Mark Marin]

Like. All I know is that when I was doing the Swedish stuff, they had names like Glor, you know, just with, um, lots on. And you're like, this has got to be great. And they were sticky and wet, but that was tobacco.

[Josh Brolin]

You know what they don't have, though? If you look at cigarettes, especially in Europe, or cigars, it's like this. Will that. You will lose your child in pregnancy. You will lose all your teeth. You will die if you do this. Yeah, I don't see that anywhere here. Do you not?

[Mark Marin]

Well, not because these aren't tobacco. I don't think they're beholden to that.

[Josh Brolin]

It just says they also may not have the additives and all the. The carcinogen.

[Mark Marin]

It just says this contains nicotine. Nicotine is addictive. I'm like, all right, okay.

[Josh Brolin]

And.

[Mark Marin]

Exactly.

[Josh Brolin]

Next.

[Mark Marin]

God. Like. But you're doing the sixes. Like, I'm trying to. I'm trying to step up, but they're still. They still.

[Josh Brolin]

You're trying to. You're actually trying to do more, not less. Good on you, man. Embrace.

[Mark Marin]

I mean, I know a lot of dudes are doing sixes, and I'm like, dude, I do a six, I gotta wait it out for a half hour and then write it.

[Josh Brolin]

I know you're not gonna sweat on threes. No, you're only gonna sweat on sixes.

[Mark Marin]

So you sweat on the six.

[Josh Brolin]

You know what's what? No, I don't.

[Mark Marin]

Not anymore.

[Josh Brolin]

But if I do a double six.

[Mark Marin]

Oh, come on. They're 12. You can.

[Josh Brolin]

What's the longest you've ever gone. And then we'll get past this. What's the longest you've ever gone without a Zen in your MO house right now? Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

These days.

[Josh Brolin]

Yep.

[Mark Marin]

Not long.

[Josh Brolin]

Not long.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, I don't. I don't sleep with them, though.

[Josh Brolin]

Do you exercise?

[Mark Marin]

Yes.

[Josh Brolin]

And do you do it when you exercise?

[Mark Marin]

I. It's usually on the tail end of it.

[Josh Brolin]

Okay. If you do. While you're exit. While you exercise, I can move up to the six. No, no, it's not. It's not a positive. It's like. No, you will get sick.

[Mark Marin]

You will.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah, because it will. It will shoot through your bloodstream.

[Mark Marin]

Oh, it'll jack your.

[Josh Brolin]

It'll jack everything up. It makes sense, doesn't it?

[Mark Marin]

Here's what happens. I'll get up, I'll put one in. Then if I'm on my way to exercise, it'll probably be a half hour, 40 minutes before I get there. So I'm on the tail end of whatever's available in the thing.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah. You're not experimenting to the level that I'm experimenting.

[Mark Marin]

I used to. I used to go to the gym on blow.

[Josh Brolin]

I didn't. No, you don't. You beat me. You beat me. I never understood that, dude. I was. I was under the bed on blow.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

I was looking through the. Yeah. Looking through the peephole for eight hours. I don't know where that guy. I was absolutely 1000% that guy.

[Mark Marin]

I was not that guy. How. I had a buddy of mine, like, who did blow much longer than me, like, you know, I got out of it, and I was hanging out with him once, and he was doing a couple of lines, and literally he did two lines, and within five minutes was at the door. Do you hear that? What's going on? I'm like, how is this fun for you? I knew another guy was shooting speed balls in Hollywood, and he had a. He had a heart monitor machine. So we do it and just watch the machine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was never that guy.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah, No, I wasn't that guy. But I was looking through the peephole. I actually. This is a true story. I was in New York. I was living on 86th Street.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And I was looking through the peephole for quite a few hours. I was positive I saw somebody's shoulder. A black shoulder. A black shirt.

[Mark Marin]

Just a shoulder.

[Josh Brolin]

No, no, no, no. A black shirt, which was probably a cop. And I spent. And I'm, you know, a good five hours looking through the people. Like, my. My eye was getting super sore.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And then you would release from. You'd release from the peephole because you knew, you know, this is because of the drugs that you're doing.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Just walk away and try to have a good time. And by the time you got within four inches away from the peephole and you go, yeah, but what if. And then you go right back to the peephole that I graduated to under the bed. And then all of a sudden, this is a true story. Not in the book.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

All of a sudden, the fuck. I heard the lock in the door.

[Mark Marin]

Oh, no.

[Josh Brolin]

And then the door opened and I was like, holy shit. Like, literally my relationship with cocaine was for the rest of my life. Because you always think somebody's coming, but nobody's actually coming. But somebody came and then. And it turned out to be my ex wife.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Right. The mother of my older children.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Who decided to do this wonderful thing and come over and clean my apartment just for the fuck of it. Out of the goodness of her heart.

[Mark Marin]

Right.

[Josh Brolin]

I spent, spent 45 minutes under the bed watching a mop. Watching a moving mop. And that's a true story. I've never told that story.

[Mark Marin]

Panic in your eyes.

[Josh Brolin]

Oh, my. Abject panic. And also, when are you gonna leave so I can keep doing this?

[Mark Marin]

I went right to a psychosis. Like, I, you know, my paranoia became mystical.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

So I, you know, I lost my mind. I was hearing voices. I didn't get the trans.

[Josh Brolin]

Universal.

[Mark Marin]

Totally. It didn't. I didn't get the sort of like. Do you hear that?

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

No, for me, it's like, I'm here and stuff. Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

I was still in practical land. Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

No way out. Yeah, way out.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

So. Well, that's good.

[Josh Brolin]

We got the better coke than I did.

[Mark Marin]

I don't know. I just think it's the way my brain works. How you feeling in general?

[Josh Brolin]

Good. Man. There's something, you know, I'm going to.

[Mark Marin]

Put another one in now. I feel like I got to keep up.

[Josh Brolin]

That's okay. I'm right with you right now. I'm starting to sweat. I, I, you know, an honest answer, your question is I feel I was in the middle of doing the audible for this book.

[Mark Marin]

That's fun, right? Did you like it?

[Josh Brolin]

No, it's.

[Mark Marin]

It's like, you know, what's so up about doing the audible for your books is you're reading your. And the producer goes, could you go back and like, wait, it's me.

[Josh Brolin]

They're directing you. I know how this is meant to be. Read.

[Mark Marin]

Right.

[Josh Brolin]

And yet you're vulnerable to somebody else actually having some kind of objectivity. So you welcome that.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And then on top of it, being a decent reader, see, being somebody who's pretty comfortable reading in public.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

I was stuttering through my left and right. I couldn't get through two sentences. Two cents. Like, right now.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Two sentences without up a word.

[Mark Marin]

Oh.

[Josh Brolin]

So I started spot. No, it took me four days. It was fine. They were doing. They were doing that thing like, this is so good. This is great. And I'm like, you're lying to me. You think I'm that type of a person or actor or whatever that is, surrounded by a bunch of. Yes. People that just needs a little stroke, a little penis rub, and then everything's.

[Mark Marin]

Okay with an hour.

[Josh Brolin]

You know, for an hour.

[Mark Marin]

I'm not that guy.

[Josh Brolin]

I. Apparently, I'm not that guy. I don't perceive myself as being that guy. So I would go outside and I would literally spiral and I would go, what the. Did I do whatever intention I had of doing, you know, what's considered a memoir? It's like, what would you do? Okay, you do a thing about the Goonies. You do a thing about thrashing. You do a thing about Michael Landon. You do a thing about starting theater. You get that's what you want to read, Right? Well, you read this and it's. It's partially that, but it's very mother heavy.

[Mark Marin]

No, but it's different.

[Josh Brolin]

You.

[Mark Marin]

I think you approached it really well because I think that, you know, you put the focus on. Because I just read Pacino's.

[Josh Brolin]

Oh, you did?

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. Out of it. Because I talked to him.

[Josh Brolin]

Okay.

[Mark Marin]

And his is sort of like this kind of, like, nostalgic, you know, almost kind of like, you know, emotional.

[Josh Brolin]

But it's very professional.

[Mark Marin]

No, no, it. Yours is professional, but it's a different type of writing. He's like, you know, looking back with this. You know, with this sentimental and moving through these moments. But you, like, you focused in on something from your past pieces and you wrote the fuck out of it. You know, it's very readable because you're doing it in chapters, and each chapter kind of functions on its own as almost a prose poem.

[Josh Brolin]

Right, Exactly.

[Mark Marin]

And so you're dealing with feelings of the moment. You're looking back, but some of it feels immediate. But there's also you. You know, you. You. You wrote it. It wasn't like. I remember when I was. You know, you were. You're in the moment.

[Josh Brolin]

You're.

[Mark Marin]

You're Having feelings. You're doing it poetically, you're doing it with language. So it's really a writerly thing. It's not like, you know, when I was born, you know.

[Josh Brolin]

No. And then I, you know, I. I used to do little plays in front of my family when I was 4, and they go, we knew he was going to be an actor. How about the film? I knew.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. How about the filmmaker? Like, well, I had a Super 8 camera. Here we go.

[Josh Brolin]

Like, I can't. Like, I. It's stuff. If I read Pacino's, by the way.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

I was surprised to hear how many people have memoirs out that had no place in writing their memoirs. Meaning. Yeah, somebody else wrote their memoirs.

[Mark Marin]

That's it. They talked to a guy.

[Josh Brolin]

But I didn't. I didn't know that. I didn't even know that was possible.

[Mark Marin]

You wouldn't have done that.

[Josh Brolin]

I. I don't. I. How can you do that if you have your own vernacular and you have.

[Mark Marin]

Your own perspective, if you have your own vernacular. But some people can tell stories, but they can't write. That was it. And the interesting thing about guys who write books about their lives, who have editors and you're not going to. This is not going to happen with this book is that, you know, you talk to them. Because I don't usually read the books because. Because then you have a conversation where. It's where they're always going, like, well, in the book.

[Josh Brolin]

Or.

[Mark Marin]

I know what. I already know what I'm asking, which is, I don't like that. But I have been reading the books more because I want to have a through line. But when you want to hear the story from the book, they can't tell it like it's in the book because they told it to a guy. It's edited, it's made better. So then you're like, tell me that story. And it's not even that they're saying it's in the book, but the story they're going to tell is three sentences and the story in the book's two pages with a full arc. And you're like, fuck.

[Josh Brolin]

Hence getting a writer to write your memoir.

[Mark Marin]

That's right.

[Josh Brolin]

You can't tell stories. I get it. It's probably a positive, but at the same time, you want it revealed. You're like, look, I know this story. Or there's something. Or what's the. What's the thing in the book that was most profound to you? What was a milestone that was most profound to you? And you realize, I Don't know. I didn't write the book. I'm just. Or you're not promoting the book because.

[Mark Marin]

Like, even in reading the first, like, 40 pages or whatever, like, I'm already, like, making marks because there's thoughts. See, that's the thing. It's not just a reflection. It's a thought. Yeah. I miss feeling that anything could happen at any moment outside of me. Then that's talking about your mother. And like, that, in and of itself, as a piece of poetic language, is sort of a component of your entire sense of self and what you've been dealing with through your whole life. But that's what I'm gonna. That is the kind of book where you kind of can lock into that, you know? And then there's another thing you wrote about talking to famous people who. None you mention. And just make this comment about the nature of actors who like to hear about other actors, mundane activities, and that. That elevates those things to a story that becomes mythic. Like, these are, you know, these are, like. These are ideas and thoughts and understanding. There's a sense of you throughout this book trying to understand who you are, but also understand the world and ultimately ending up with, like. I don't know, what did you end up with?

[Josh Brolin]

But you just said it. Me trying to understand who I am. So if it's based on journals, when I put this. Okay, two stories. One is the. The piece that you're talking about is about somebody specific that was written straightforward, and it's.

[Mark Marin]

Were you talking to the writer?

[Josh Brolin]

I was talking to the writer.

[Mark Marin]

And you realized he wasn't really registering you as somebody he might want to talk to. And then you started thinking about all these conversations.

[Josh Brolin]

I was talking to Sam Shepard, and I was trying to impress Sam Shepard.

[Mark Marin]

Okay.

[Josh Brolin]

That's basically what it was.

[Mark Marin]

It's funny because you. You've read a lot of Sam Shepard.

[Josh Brolin]

I've read a lot of Sam Shepard. I knew Sam really well.

[Mark Marin]

There's a. There's a sense. There's a.

[Josh Brolin]

There's a. I'm sure that there's a. There's a bleed over. There's definitely an influence.

[Mark Marin]

An influence. I don't think it's a bleed over.

[Josh Brolin]

Because I think there's a lot of influences.

[Mark Marin]

Well, I, you know, because when I was younger, I, you know, I read a lot of Sam Shepard. I remember wrote a piece that, you know, there was. There's a language that shepherd has this sort of cowboy poetry thing that it's a fine delivery system and it's not even a matter of appropriating or mimicking. It's just that you're going to find your voice through other voices eventually.

[Josh Brolin]

Always. Always. And to deny that is a joke. Totally. I mean, it's one of the connections and one of the reasons I was excited to come back here. Because I remember when we were doing our thing, you had books in the background. I would comment on those books now. All junkie books. You know what I mean? It's like you look, hey, remember that? And that guy? And there's Lou Reed, and there's Bukowski, and there's this. And I think it was me. So two things. One, it was me. Finally, when you hit 50 and you go, you know what all this talk about, it's like, I'm. I've had it.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

I've had it. Yeah. Like, if you. If you want to, like, on the playwright, then go write a play.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

If you're going to talk about, you know, writerly things, then go write a book.

[Mark Marin]

Right.

[Josh Brolin]

And then see, try your hand in. Most humbling experience of my life, writing this book.

[Mark Marin]

Very vulnerable.

[Josh Brolin]

90,000 words, and then knock it down to 53,000 words, and you're slashing and cutting.

[Mark Marin]

A good editor.

[Josh Brolin]

Refining. I had a good editor, but I spent a lot of time doing the shit myself. We don't need it. I'm in love with it. We don't need it. I have 15 words in that sentence, and I know nine is better, and I know six is even better.

[Mark Marin]

What was the main reason for not needing it? Redundancy.

[Josh Brolin]

Redundancy. Add on icing, all this kind of. That. You don't need to override something. Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

It's like I. I described it.

[Josh Brolin]

And especially if you're. If you have any kind of, like, poetic predilections.

[Mark Marin]

Yes.

[Josh Brolin]

You want to kind of flower it up.

[Mark Marin]

Oh, totally.

[Josh Brolin]

And it's all.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, it's totally.

[Josh Brolin]

You know, so if you're doing that in a journal.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

It's all good. So you can masturbate to it. Yeah. But when you're doing it for public consumption. Right. There's a great story of Raymond Carver. And Raymond Carver, he had an editor, and they were saying, look, he had, like 12 words or whatever, 15 words in a sentence. And this editor kept saying, knock it down to 12. Knock it down to 11. And then finally he got so incensed that he fired the editor and he got a new editor. And the editor saw the new sentence that was down till 11 or 12 and said, now, if we can just knock it down to eight or nine, we'll be there. And he's like you. And he got a Pulitzer for it.

[Mark Marin]

He's pretty lean, too. Car soup.

[Josh Brolin]

Well, super lean. He obviously listened. Even if he fought, he listened to his editors.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And I don't know how. It's like me talking about trading stocks. It's not that interesting to a bunch of people what, talking about writing. But I do think that there's a sense, like a painter. If you were Michelangelo, you painted under a teacher doing the same painting for a year.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

You know, generate your skills.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, sure.

[Josh Brolin]

Germinate what you have. So me reading whoever I read. You know, you're the first person, by the way, to bring up Sam.

[Mark Marin]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Which I appreciate, because there. There's the influencer, there's the Kerouac influencer, there's the Mailer influencer, there's the, you know, Joan Didion influencer. There's. Whatever.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And then you finally. Which I think this book has. You finally find your own voice.

[Mark Marin]

Totally.

[Josh Brolin]

You finally let go of all the plagiarism and you go, I'm just writing what I'm writing, whether they like it or not.

[Mark Marin]

Well, yeah, because, like, it's not even plagiarism, though, you know, you have a group of influences that built your sense of expression.

[Josh Brolin]

Absolutely.

[Mark Marin]

You know, any. There's no pure expression, like, as an actor or whatever, you know, you're just gonna be crying, you know, Seriously. I know.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah. Look at me act. Watch me emote.

[Mark Marin]

Well, yeah, but there is something. I mean, I know you trivialize it a bit, but, you know, there's something about being able to access that. You know, I. I learned something when Sharon. I just did a movie. It's the first time I ever did a lead in a movie, and I had to do it, and I don't think I was. I would have been able to do it before this, and I'm not sure how I did, but I was ready for the challenge.

[Josh Brolin]

Right, and you had done enough work where you were ready.

[Mark Marin]

Right. Like, I was. I knew how to be on set, and I. You know, I had enough confidence, you know, to. To.

[Josh Brolin]

You knew how to be on set, but you had already acted in several different roles. I mean, many different roles.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, a few. A few. But this guy. The movie's about an actor who started out with integrity early on, did real stuff, did a few movies that were kind of hits. He, you know, he fucked some guy's wife and married her big actress. And the fourth movie they did together Tanks. And then he was kind of in the wilderness for a while, trying to get back his credibility. And then he took a sitcom for five years, and that's how he became known. That's backstory.

[Josh Brolin]

That's pretty.

[Mark Marin]

So here we are at 60, at the age this guy is now, and, you know, at the beginning of the movie, he gets diagnosed with stage four bowel cancer, and he becomes obsessed with the need to be in the In Memoriam montage at the Oscars. It's the only thing that's gonna give his life meaning, and he doesn't think he has their resume for it, so he's got to figure out all these angles to try to get into the montage. It's crazy, but my biggest fear, having not having the confidence of an actor, is this guy's supposed to be a good actor.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And he's got. There's a couple of scenes where he's acting in the movie. So all I was worried about is, like, if I don't make those fucking things credible, the whole thing goes to Shawn.

[Josh Brolin]

Right?

[Mark Marin]

So that was, like, intense.

[Josh Brolin]

You got a bad actor to play a good actor about shitty, you know, scenarios, shitty situations. Well.

[Mark Marin]

Well, it's like, I'm playing this guy Langston, who's known for this sitcom, but he was a great actor. And. And so the opening sequence is him on a procedural being interrogated for trying to get him to murder. Admit he murdered his wife. So the only way I could think of that is like, well, the contrast has got to be so extreme when I come out of that that you realize, oh, that's not the guy. So I don't know, but I had a scene with Sharon Stone that just changed my fucking life, dude.

[Josh Brolin]

Why?

[Mark Marin]

I've told the story, but it was fucking nuts.

[Josh Brolin]

I love her.

[Mark Marin]

She's the best.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah, she's the best, but she's.

[Mark Marin]

She does this movie because she likes me. She doesn't even read the script, and then she reads it, and she's fucking all in, and she's gonna do this one scene she had, like. And it's written as a comedy, but, like, I. She came fucking loaded. Like, she's in this mansion. She's got the turban on, and she's, like, pale, and she's doing a whole Norma desert. And I walk in for the scene, and I'm like, I'm gonna get eaten for fucking lunch. There's nothing. I'm gonna. How am I even gonna keep it together? So. So we do. So we do the. We do two Takes. And I'm like. I'm not even a character. I'm just Mark going, like, what am I doing? Yeah. And she's grabbing my face and, like. And so we. We break for lunch. And I'm pretty sure I'm looking at the set, and I'm pretty sure everyone's like, oh, he's not gonna do it.

[Josh Brolin]

It's too bad. It's too bad. We decided yes on this movie.

[Mark Marin]

And I go back to my trailer.

[Josh Brolin]

Podcast, but, man.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know what we were thinking.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And I go back to my trailer, and my manager's there. He's hanging around, and I'm just full on, like, what the fuck am I doing in this? It's Sharon Stone. I can't fucking do this. God fucking damn it. What? She's eating me for lunch out there. There's nothing I can do.

[Josh Brolin]

Which sounds, more, by the way, like, the character than you. Right, Right.

[Mark Marin]

Well, it gets. You know how it goes. So. But then somehow or another, Josh, I, like, you know, after lunch, I'm like, dude, you know, you've talked. You talked. You just talked to Pacino. You got some tips. And I kept thinking about Ethan Hawke talking about, you know, when he worked with Denzel on Training Day and how he'd watched all of Denzel's movies, like they were game tapes.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

So he Could. I say. I just thought, like, you know, ground yourself. You don't like this woman. She dumped you. You resent her. You're jealous of her. This is. This is the guy.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

So you walk in there with some fucking, you know, control of this situation.

[Josh Brolin]

Did it help?

[Mark Marin]

Totally.

[Josh Brolin]

Did it?

[Mark Marin]

Totally.

[Josh Brolin]

Interesting.

[Mark Marin]

Because it was. What? It was one of those situations. I know it's acting, you know, it's not life or death, but, like, you know, if you don't ground yourself. And what's that? You know, if you don't say, like, this is what's happening. Like, you know, like, I. A week before, I talked to Pacino, and he had these five things I don't know who gave him. You know, go to the character. Why are you there? Where'd you come from? What is this? And I'm like, that's.

[Josh Brolin]

That's Strasberg Strauss.

[Mark Marin]

It's Strasburg.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

So I just. Fucking locked in. But then we're getting to the cry thing, right? And I'm telling Sharon. I'm like. And, you know, she. We have a relationship. She's being very kind. She says. She says, what makes you cry? And I'm like, well, you know, I'm at that age where I cry a little at a lot of things. And she goes, I know what makes you cry. And I'm like, really? She goes, you know what makes you cry? And she had, you know, she had been pretty supportive after my partner passed, after Lynn died, you know, and I'd been thinking about that anyways. But, you know, it's one of those weird things. You can't just think of a person or a dog dying and cry. It's like, it's a bigger thing.

[Josh Brolin]

You can. But I think it's. It's the re. And having done this for 40 years, it's to me, the relaxation and I'm.

[Mark Marin]

Be open to it.

[Josh Brolin]

Be open to it. Be open to anything.

[Mark Marin]

Right?

[Josh Brolin]

So. So there's the, there's the pre. Kind of determined idea of, listen, this is what actors do to make themselves cry. Why do people cry? Because they're sad about something. Really? Always. And then you said, so I would be in a corner slapping myself at 17 years old, right. Not willing to talk to anybody. Probably because I heard a story about Pacino or probably because I heard a story about Denzel. And again, it's like we're talking about this book where. At what point do you become your own guy? At what point do you start saying it, no matter how much fear you feel? Because I always am saturated by fear.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

I was so saturated by fear when I did the first. I did a hot two episode highway to Heaven with Michael Landon.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

It was the third job I ever had. And all I remember about the job is making sure that my legs were straight enough that I was literally almost breaking my knees backwards because my legs were shaking so bad. I knew everybody would see and I knew everybody would call me out.

[Mark Marin]

Right.

[Josh Brolin]

So there comes a time, there came a time at least like with crying, which was a big thing for me because I didn't cry when things were sad. I'm just the type of guy that when things get super severe, yeah, I get very calm because it's like I'm the guy that you actually want there. I'm the military kind of minded guy that's going to actually help because he can see clearly what needs to be done. But. And then afterwards, I have whatever PTSD you have for me when I see a mother pick up a car in order to save her son. If I, If I experience a heroic act.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And if I think of that in my head, I will fucking blubber. Like I've. But I didn't know that for 20 years.

[Mark Marin]

Well, what happened for me was like, it's like you said, though, I'm a comic, so, you know, my entire career is based on not crying. All I'm doing is professionally not crying.

[Josh Brolin]

Totally. That's so well put. That's my job, making other people cry.

[Mark Marin]

Right. So here I am in this moment, and she brings up Lynn, and then she says to me, she goes, you know, just do the scene to her and I'll make sure she's here. Wow, I'm choking up now. But the thing was, like, you were saying, it wasn't, you know, just the loss. What got me to the place was because of my lack of belief in myself. That woman who passed away always believed in me, and it thrilled her when I acted. So it was that sense of her presence, of believing in me.

[Josh Brolin]

There you go.

[Mark Marin]

That a positive, right?

[Josh Brolin]

It's so good, though.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. It changed my life because of what you're saying is that it's that moment where you realize, I don't give a fuck if I'm going to be open to this, if I'm going to be honest about the truth of a scene. Why can't you do that in your life? Even with comedy, it's like, what do I got to worry about? Like, I've been doing this my whole fucking life. And yeah, every time you do it, you're like, I got to get them right up front. And I'm like, I don't have to get them at all them.

[Josh Brolin]

But the whole thing is you go in there wanting to win. You want. You want to go in there, you're saturated in abject fear.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

You want people to tell you, good, you want. And you forget all. Everything that it's about. You forget about listening. You forget about connection. You forget about the fact that all. All people just want to connect.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

They want to be seen. They want to be accepted. They want to be like, literally, that's what art comes down to.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

I've never called myself an artist. I've always found it very difficult to say, well, you know, me too, as an artist.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And I go as a. Like, what does that mean? What is it? But I do believe that through the process of this book, and I'm not just bringing it back to the book, just like, that's. That's what it was, is. I go. When I was doing the audible, I go, what the fuck did I do? Because, like, you with Sharon, I just got to a place where I just said, I, this is me. This is me exploring. This is me coming from a place that I think was of such extreme behavior that you can. If you. From certain perspectives, you could call it trauma. And you go. And somebody who found their way into being able to manifest creativity in a way that became a professional.

[Mark Marin]

Right.

[Josh Brolin]

Professionally viable.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And then was still stuck in that habit of self destruction and then found his way out of that, too, because he was more into this idea of refusing not to have a Sharon Stone moment.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, right, right.

[Josh Brolin]

You know what I mean? Sure. I'm not interested in living the fucking life where you go, hey, man, like, you hit the golf ball. You should have used a six iron, dude.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And I'm like, I'm not interested. Yeah, I'm not interested.

[Mark Marin]

And that's okay.

[Josh Brolin]

That's okay.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that. That's one thing that's starting to happen. Certainly with. With the way that culture is shifting and the way that, you know, artists. Artists are being diminished or marginalized or thought of as like, you know, fucking pansies or whatever, is that, you know, the work of it. And I think the driving fact for me in going into that Sharon thing and talking to Pacino and what you're saying now is what you're. What is the truth of the scene? Like, what is it? And it's the same with the journey of the book, you know, what is the truth of this moment that you're trying to get at? Even if you don't land on it, if you work around it enough, it will magically float above it. And that's. That's the whole fucking journey. There's, you know, the truth of which iron you should use is relative. And I'm not going to take anything away from that. I mean, really. But it is not. It's not going to give you some sort of compelling existential sort of transcendence.

[Josh Brolin]

You know, if you're interested in that, I guess. And if you're not, I'm going to get golfers.

[Mark Marin]

I don't have that many.

[Josh Brolin]

No, I know. You're going to get golfers. Just fuck rolling.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

You know what I mean? I love golfing. I love going out there. But I like. It's the personal challenge and it's the willing to be able to say, look, do I want it? Do I want to experience? I want to experience life as if I'm on lsd. That's my thing. I just can't take LSD anymore.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. But I just.

[Josh Brolin]

I want a vivid experience, but also.

[Mark Marin]

The connection, like, even I don't Remember which story it was. But, you know, I got choked up and I'm. And I'm relatively open and I'm sure there's a lot of unresolved things in my heart that I haven't cried over. But the fact is that you get moved. Those moments are important. I mean, that's the whole thing. The vulnerability of that connection you were talking about, that when other people witness it, it connects them to something. The bigger sort of pain of being alive. And that relief of that one way or the other, I mean, that's. That's all we got really. Supposed to be anyways.

[Josh Brolin]

If it. If that's meaningful to you.

[Mark Marin]

But it should be meaningful.

[Josh Brolin]

But it should be meaningful to everybody. But it's not necessarily. But I don't necessarily even. That I don't believe even the people that we demonize.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And you go, they don't give a. Like there are evil people out there. For sure.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

But I've experienced, you know, I mean, what's a good example? Is it something that. That I do?

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

I did with my dad. My d. Dad is more of an introverted, kind of tight, tightly wound guy. And he smiles and he goes, hey, how are you? Yeah, how you doing? You happy today? You know, and you go, no, I'm not necessarily happy. And I don't really care as much. Like, whatever's going on today's going on today.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Something about me when I was younger, used to love to grab him and kiss him on the cheek.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Just.

[Mark Marin]

Just a jar in.

[Josh Brolin]

I don't. But I don't know if it was to jar him of going or. Or me saying, this is the direction that I want to go.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

I'm not going to follow this status quo idea of what you guys deem appropriate.

[Mark Marin]

Right.

[Josh Brolin]

I want to go a little bit further. I don't know. I think I got that from my mother.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Like, why not challenge. Just because it's presented this way isn't necessarily the way it needs to be. It doesn't need to settle into this.

[Mark Marin]

Well, it's great because in the way you characterize your mother, she's, you know, a pretty exciting character.

[Josh Brolin]

She is.

[Mark Marin]

But the thing is that you have that in you, but you also have the ability to go, like, what am I doing?

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah, totally.

[Mark Marin]

Which she didn't.

[Josh Brolin]

No.

[Mark Marin]

And that's like. That's a whole different game. That's the gift is that.

[Josh Brolin]

And the torture.

[Mark Marin]

Right. But like, for me, even when I did drugs, I'd always said going into it, because most of my heroes were drug addicts. Right. So I always said, like, well, if I ever, you know, lose my mind, I'm going to stop. And how are you going to know? But there is. And I imagine you've gotten there too. There's an edge. Everyone's got an edge to it. And the difference between somebody who ends up totally broken and somebody who comes back is just that foundation of self that doesn't want to die or lose themselves entirely. And if you have that, it's a gift in terms of. If you have those propensities.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

For chaos and self abuse.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah. And that's why when you raise kids now, because I have a 36 year old, a 31 year old, a 6 year old and a 3.

[Mark Marin]

You had two with that first one.

[Josh Brolin]

I did, yeah. And then I was married in between.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Somebody else. And then I was. And then now I'm married and I have a six year old and a three year old. And you raise kids. And there's something that I push a lot of like responsibility and character building and all this kind of stuff. And I have two little girls and you know, I look back on my childhood like there's a story that's not even in there that my mother came from Texas. She ran away from Texas when she was, I think 17 years old or 19 years old. She had a couple hundred bucks in her pocket. She was a, you know, pretty staunch Baptist. And then she started fucking all these married men.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

You know, she got to Hollywood and kind of gotten that whole thing and nucleus. And she was never an actress, but. And she was actor adjacent. She was actor adjacent, kind of essential. That's exactly right. Seriously. Which is even worse. And then you go, so where do I put this now? I put it back in my Zen pack.

[Mark Marin]

You throw it in that garbage right there.

[Josh Brolin]

I can't. Oh, perfect. So anyway, she went a little nuts one one day and then she took a bunch of pills and she got in the car and she hit a bunch of parked cars. So the guys in the, the white coats, you know, came to get her.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And they put her in the patty wagon, literally. And they took her to Camario State Hospital and she spent three and a half weeks in Camario State Hospital. And when. So she was there and she. There was a girl there who had hacked up her entire family and she hadn't spoken a word in 12 years.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And my mother sat next and I'm sure I don't know how it went, but my mother was so loud and kind of like, didn't give a. She probably sat down next to her and said, like, I don't understand why you're not talking. Do you never talk? Like, do you never. Do you talk in your sleep? Do you talk when nobody's around? And probably annoyed the. Out of her so much that the girl finally said, candy.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And it was a huge thing in the hospital. Like, wow, this woman hasn't spoken. You got her. You've gotten her to speak. And then the people said she was. She was put in there, she was assessed, and then her friends came to get her, and she's like, no, I'm fine.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Because she liked it. Yeah, she liked it in there. And when you grow up around that kind of alchemy.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

You're like, yes. It's traumatizing. You know, you said it earlier. You go, I don't know if I've gotten everything out of my heart. I don't know if you're supposed to. First of all.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

I don't know if there's a therapy that, like, once you've kind of exercised all the bad, that you just live in the good.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Or if you just learn to kind of be malleable within the chaos of the circus.

[Mark Marin]

Sure. Well, I think that's the best. I think that if you look at therapy, I think that people who are. Who have, like, I don't have the victim thing.

[Josh Brolin]

I don't either.

[Mark Marin]

And that's really the shift in. Either you got that naturally or you assume it eventually. But if that's the disposition you're coming from and you live in it, I don't know that there's. It's very hard to get better because there's this idea that you're going to be a, you know, perfect. And I think I used to do a joke about it, about going to therapy when you're older, in your 40s, and you've been through enough and you've been to therapists before, you can. You should know what you're there for. Like, you should walk in and go and just be like, look, there's a lot of things we're not going to be able to unfuck.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

So if we can just tweak the ones that are bothering me now, that's it. Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Be specific.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. And. But the unfuckable, you know, the things that are, you know, fucking. Like you said, it's interesting that you're talking about, like, you can look at it as trauma. Like that there's a decision. Right. Because trauma is like, A buzzword. And trauma therapy is real, and I think it's a fairly decent context to treat people. But you know what? And I'm doing this whole bit on stage now about. Once you identify your traumas, it's up to you to determine which ones really affected my life and which ones do I just live with. And it's okay. He can live there, is what it is. Yeah. So, I mean, that's the trick of it. It. It. It may all be trauma, but trauma is what defines everybody.

[Josh Brolin]

I think so.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And then you have your massive trauma. You have your trauma of, you know, true PTSD and military trauma and all that kind of stuff.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

But how you react to it. And I'm going to bring something up, and this is not meant to be a political thing, but I actually turned on something on the way over here. And you were talking to this chick.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

This last. Who? Yeah, you were.

[Mark Marin]

Oh, Robbie Hoffman.

[Josh Brolin]

Robbie.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And before that, you were going off and it was. Let's call it the morning after.

[Mark Marin]

The morning after. Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Right. So the morning after. And you were talking about annihilation and all that kind of stuff. So. And. And so there's this thing that happened, and it goes back to what we were talking about in the beginning where I said I was doing the audible for this book and I started spiraling and this. And I'm not a spiraling kind of guy.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

I don't victimize myself. I don't see myself as a victim, but I. I just undeniably spiraled.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And I went down this whirlpool of, like, shame, and what did I do and who do I think I am? And all this stuff, and nobody cares about this anyway. And why did I write this? And. Which I hear is very, you know, common for writers.

[Mark Marin]

I do that two, three times a week. That's. That's my morning routine. You're sitting in an ice bath and I'm doing that.

[Josh Brolin]

But there's. It's true, actually. There. There's something that happened the morning after for me.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And I think it's how I've dealt. I think it's in. It's in the nucleus of this book. I think it's how I've dealt with my life, for better or worse, through and through.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And I go, we have a. We have a Republican Senate, we have a Republican House, we have controlled Supreme Court judges, and we have a Republican President now. And I felt jazzed.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Jazzed is the wrong word. But I felt. I felt like, okay, all Bets are off. You go back to this very fucking human place.

[Mark Marin]

Right. No, I.

[Josh Brolin]

And there's like a nothing to lose mentality.

[Mark Marin]

Right.

[Josh Brolin]

And who gives a fuck about the book? And let's put. Not in a bad way. I stand by this book a thousand percent. This book is a thousand percent me. We're left with just being who we are.

[Mark Marin]

That's right. That's right.

[Josh Brolin]

And there's something exhilarating about that.

[Mark Marin]

No, I feel it, too, like. Because it's all on the table.

[Josh Brolin]

Table. It's all on the table, man. There's nothing hidden. And it was during this whole process that I was like, I don't like this. I hate politicians. They're all liars. They're all trying to be picked.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And then when you have that kind of attention, there's no way that that kind of attention and power doesn't affect you. There's no way that it can't be affected in some way.

[Mark Marin]

You got.

[Josh Brolin]

And then after it's all done, you go, okay, so this is what's left.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. This is where. This is where we're at.

[Josh Brolin]

This is exactly where we're at.

[Mark Marin]

And I think, for me, because I experienced the same thing, you know, I had to speak up because my audience, they're sensitive people, and I did feel those feelings. But after that, it's like, you can't sit there going, what are we going to? How are we going to? You know, like, this is it, man. And you got to protect your mind and you got to hold on to who you are. Because the steamrolling effect of, like, an election that is that. That kind of efficiently won is that there's going to be this momentum of sort of like, well, you're out of step. Yeah, no, I'm not.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

I'm not out of step.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

I know exactly how I feel, and I still feel that way. And you guys can. But, like, I'm thinking about today because I got to do standup. Is that, like, now of a sudden, we're in this mode where you're with people and the numbers being what? They're being people, you know, and people. You have maybe a nice relationship. There's that party that's like, did you. Because why?

[Josh Brolin]

Are we really friends or are we not. But that's not the point. The point is now how do you get back to which I feel. You know, when. When Biden and Trump came out and didn't shake hands, my thought was you.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

You guys.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

This is the same country. This is the same umbrella and now it's kind of on us.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

As Democrats.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

That I have a lot of Republican friends. I know a lot of Republican people. I was raised in the country. I'm surrounded by Republican people who I love, who I can rely on, who I could drop my kids off with, who I trust, and all this kind of stuff, and. But there's this extreme version of absolutely zero trust that I go, okay, so now we're in a place where we have to confront each other, and it's on me.

[Mark Marin]

Huh?

[Josh Brolin]

You won. Whatever that means to you.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

You won.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

So you. Like. I actually heard it. Somebody said, I woke up today and it was like Christmas morning.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And I was fucking psycho. Whatever. But I go, okay. And I hand it to you. And that's what happened. And that's what is. And now it's up to me to say, okay, so where's my malleability? Where do I stand? Who am I specifically? Well, that's unapologetically.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. My producer said, you know, the ocean stops at the shore.

[Josh Brolin]

There you go.

[Mark Marin]

You know, there you go.

[Josh Brolin]

Totally, man. And I am. I'm exhilarated. I'm exhilarated to move forward. I don't want to move away.

[Mark Marin]

I. I wrestle with that, but then.

[Josh Brolin]

I wrestle with that, only because things seem more attractive to me. To me. Not because there's a negative that I'm running from, but a positive that I'm running towards.

[Mark Marin]

Sure, sure. Like freedom of mind. Like, we're old.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

I mean, how old are you?

[Josh Brolin]

56.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. So I'm 61. And it's just sort of like, I did it. I landed on my feet. I'm okay. And can I enjoy that, please?

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah, please. Totally, totally, totally.

[Mark Marin]

Can I let myself or will you let me?

[Josh Brolin]

But I like the decibel.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

You know what I mean? It's like, can I enjoy that, please? I'm not. I'm done with that. Done.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Done with it. Can you just.

[Josh Brolin]

Can I fucking enjoy that, please?

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Make some room.

[Mark Marin]

The decibel shift is when you're not. Decibel shift is when you're talking to somebody else who's trying to get you to do something.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah, exactly.

[Mark Marin]

Can I just. All right. Okay.

[Josh Brolin]

All right.

[Mark Marin]

I'll just do this one thing.

[Josh Brolin]

I'm a big fan.

[Mark Marin]

And we know you're not doing a lot right now, but we just want you to totally.

[Josh Brolin]

Oh, my God. How many fucking times a day do I get that? Seriously. The sweetest people on earth.

[Mark Marin]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Oh, My God, you are so great. No, but you are great.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, yeah. That don't give a.

[Josh Brolin]

No.

[Mark Marin]

Really.

[Josh Brolin]

And you said it before, it's like this Hollywood thing too. And I don't know where I'm going with this, but we all live in the same apartment complex. You said something earlier and I've always appreciated about you and you said. I may. Maybe it was probably misquoted, but you were talking about Scors. You worked with Scorsese, right? No, no, no.

[Mark Marin]

I. I did a scene with Dairo once, but I.

[Josh Brolin]

Maybe that was it. Yeah, maybe that was it. Cuz you always. I. We associate Dairo with Scorsi, but there's something about you keep putting yourself. And we're very alike in this way. You know, things for me, you know, whether you get Marvel or Dune and you know, there's been some really amazing filmmakers there, but there's a comfort zone in that echelon of movie.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

That I said, okay, I appreciate that. But I miss being scared.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

I miss the danger. I miss not knowing if I can pull it off. I miss really truly freaking out because I'm not. I don't know if I can live up to something that's great.

[Mark Marin]

Worst.

[Josh Brolin]

You know what I mean?

[Mark Marin]

I don't know. Like, I don't know. I know that when I do comedy, you know, there's. There's a lot of risk in that, you know, in terms of whatever the context of risk is within that.

[Josh Brolin]

Right.

[Mark Marin]

Because I can't help but be me. And I'm not everybody's cup of tea. And it might take people a few minutes. And then like, you know, I. You know, I've got different decibel levels. It's like, well, these fuckers are just a bunch of drunk idiots. I'm gonna have to go in hard. But then you're sort of like, there's no challenge to that. So then you start walking up there. You know, I start going up there. I'm like, I don't know what we're.

[Josh Brolin]

Gonna do here, but that's kind of a great place to be.

[Mark Marin]

It's the best place to not give a fuck. That's what I mean about that. But that is exactly what you're talking about. And it was what happened on set the other day. It's just that, like that moment when I came back from the trailer after lunch, it's sort of like, well, all I can do do is show up for this and do the best I can. And I knew I was. I knew the risk this guy Asked me to carry a movie. I don't know if I can do that and do this acting thing and be an actor who's playing an actor, you know?

[Josh Brolin]

But to come back to this base place is the most. And you know it. You and I say it in the same way. We say, you know, I don't give a but you do give a but.

[Mark Marin]

You have.

[Josh Brolin]

But you're not pandering anymore. Yeah, it's not about, do you accept me? Am I likable? Am I this? Am I doing the two. It becomes about something else. It becomes much more emotional. It becomes of spirit. It becomes all that stuff. It's very base.

[Mark Marin]

It's base because you can't fake it.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah, you can't fake it.

[Mark Marin]

You know, like, I can't fake it. When I got this movie, I'm like, I don't know how to become a caricature of myself. I don't know how to do this broad comedy shit. I can approach this like it's life or death and that everything's immediate and it's got to be happening here. And that was what was also weird about the Sharon scene, is that that it's not clear in that game that we're playing. Like, I had to cry. That, you know. So you don't know why they're crying. Are they acting or they're not. It's a very weird scene. But, you know, if something's written and the emotions are in it, it's good writing. You're going to fucking cry. You're going to feel the right thing. Because on the page. But you also, and I imagine this is probably one of the downsides of the job, that I have not had the experience that you have, is that there are moments, and Pacino even talked about it, too, where it's like, you try, but you don't. You know, you don't always get there. But because you're a professional, only you're going to know that.

[Josh Brolin]

Usually only you're going to know. Well, I don't know if that's true or not. Only you're going to know that or you feel that. There's times where you feel like you haven't made it or you've gotten there. And then you find out that you were compensating so much that you were overdoing it. And that's why. And if you just simplified, that's being a professional, being able to do a scene. Like I did this thing with Rian Johnson, and that was that thing about being dangerous. I got A role. It was Knives Out 3. And is that out and. No.

[Mark Marin]

Okay.

[Josh Brolin]

It comes out in, like, a year. And that was one of those dangerous roles that showed up and said, do you want to do this? And I read it and I said, this is so fucking well written. I don't know if I'm good enough to do this, really. And I was like, okay. And you get out there and there's big speeches, and I'm doing it in front of Glenn Close.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And you know, all these actors that I respect, I love, and. And I'm getting out and I'm. My pants man. And they're all super excited. Ah, Josh is so funny. He's so good on the set, and he's great. You're gonna love him. And then they get there, and I'm like, shut down in fear and all that. And then. Okay, now these scenes come up. How are you gonna play the scene? And they're all watching me. Not only the hundred members of the crew, but.

[Mark Marin]

But it's a crew. It's an ensemble thing.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Humble thing. So everyone's there and am I too serious? And they hire a two. Serious. I heard they, you know, they were going for Kevin Costner.

[Mark Marin]

Oh, you heard that?

[Josh Brolin]

Which then I heard wasn't true. And then it doesn't matter. The thing is, is I prepped so hard for it. It was like I was doing my first role and I was sitting in the hotel.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And they were calling me from downstairs at 2 in the morning going, sir, can you please keep it down?

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

People are trying to sleep.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And I was obsessing.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And I. And it was good.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

I heard it was okay. I heard it was okay.

[Mark Marin]

See, that's the up thing. Is that, like, you know, in the tirade.

[Josh Brolin]

I'm not saying it was good, but I'm saying I heard it was good.

[Mark Marin]

But in the tirade that I had with my manager.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And I'm like, you know, it's like, how come no one's telling me I did a good job?

[Josh Brolin]

Totally. Totally. The adolescent comes out, and you're like, okay.

[Mark Marin]

And in that moment, I didn't give a fuck.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

If he went and told the director. It's like, you just got pulled smoke up his ass.

[Josh Brolin]

Crazy.

[Mark Marin]

Because it works.

[Josh Brolin]

It works.

[Mark Marin]

It's like, good job.

[Josh Brolin]

I know, right? I know my whole team just told you to say this to me, but. But thank you, Mark. You're doing such a good job.

[Mark Marin]

Really. Okay.

[Josh Brolin]

Really?

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Am I for real? Thank you, man.

[Mark Marin]

I don't even care.

[Josh Brolin]

Can I give you a hug?

[Mark Marin]

The director pointed out something to me. He pointed out something to me that I do, but I don't because I'm so. Like, I'm in it. He said he's never experienced somebody, like, defensively agreeing with him. Like, he'll come over to me and go, like, double entendre. He'll come up to me and he'll be like, okay, so I think you can bring it back over. I'm like, all right, all right, I got it.

[Josh Brolin]

No, that's so funny, man. I do the same thing, too. Because when directors come up to me and good directors know this, bad directors will keep fucking talking because they feel like they need to have an impact on what you're doing. Great directors will leave you alone when they know that they're getting. Or they'll come up and do a little tweak.

[Mark Marin]

A little tweak.

[Josh Brolin]

The great thing about Rian Johnson is he a small guy.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Super smart, super good guy. I've wanted to please him. He had such command over his set, and he just would give me a look like, you're not being good enough. And I'd be like, yeah, I'll be better. I promise you, Daddy, I will be better. And talk about base.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And it was just between he and I. Yeah, yeah. He didn't make a show out of it or any of it. You knew, and it was great. But I. I want to live in that, man. Yeah, I want to live in that. And as terrifying as it is, you know, it's interesting that when you see this thing, depending on how it's cut together, you see it, and if you see somebody react to it, which is what you want, right? You want somebody to not say necessarily. You know, when no country comes out to go, God, I saw no country. You were brilliant.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

They go, what a movie.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And I go, wow, I'm a part of something amazing. And I didn't it up, like, what a movie. They should have gotten Ethan Hall. And you go, well, why? What did I do?

[Mark Marin]

It's so funny, the whole thing about when you get a role. Well, you're at a different level, but, like, I get something like, who turned it down?

[Josh Brolin]

Oh, dude, I'd get that all the time. Matt Damon was supposed to do Milk. He couldn't do Milk because of a scheduling conflict. So I ended up doing that.

[Mark Marin]

That was the best. You were so good in that. So creepy when you're just standing in that lobby of that Courthouse or whatever it was. Hi. Yeah, but so, like, when you lay out this stuff. Well, the book is different.

[Josh Brolin]

I like how you just did Dan White. It's so pathetic. It's so good.

[Mark Marin]

Oh, my God. But so you laid out in this book. So this feels like that, right? I mean, this is all.

[Josh Brolin]

Can we see the book really quick? Yeah. Just because we're just riffing.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Sorry. Why do we have to leave? I can't see because of the hair in my face. Mom says she likes it long. There's a wolf walking across the road. It was in the road, under that street lamp. It had long legs and a long snout. It just looked at us and kept walking. Look. Look at the tree. Someone's hair is hanging from that tree at the end of every branch. It looks like rough hair, thick spider webs. A blanket torn by shreds by someone angry. I feel someone's eyes on me. Someone watching us. Don't slow down. Why are you slowing down? I smell gasoline. I smell oil. I smell my mother's face. All that makeup she puts on in the morning. It's a powdery smell. Stale. It smells old. And I see her hands. The skin draped over her thin bone. Wrapped around the steering wheel like a dark, wet paper towel with long white nails at the end. A French manicure, she calls it. I see the smoke of her cigarette crawling across the lining of the roof of our car. It slowly churns along above me. Maybe the car will light on fire. Maybe we'll burn up and we'll end up in a creek somewhere with that tree hair all over us. Hidden forever. Why isn't anybody talking? My brother's asleep next to me in the back. All curled up, like after an accident. He looks like something you'd see in a newspaper. He never looks well. He's always struggling in some way. I stare at him for a moment, watch his lips curl into his mouth when he inhales. Then flap forward as he lets it out. His is a labored life. I want to save him. I want to put him on the back of my bicycle and ride down the street away from here.

[Mark Marin]

Beautiful. Was that written as a poem? Is it written like a poem that's so great about how you write? Because it feels like a poem. Like I walked into the times where I was. Like in college, you know, in the poetry reading. You're kind of like.

[Josh Brolin]

I know, right?

[Mark Marin]

You know, like, okay, yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

By the way, I went. Do you remember? There's a play. Where did you grow up?

[Mark Marin]

Albuquerque.

[Josh Brolin]

Albuquerque? Oh, fuck. My son's in Albuquerque.

[Mark Marin]

Is he. What's he doing?

[Josh Brolin]

He's managing a multibar over there. Music? Yeah, it's called Revel.

[Mark Marin]

Really?

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah, Revel. And he manages. He lives there full time. He's with his girl.

[Mark Marin]

And I love Albuquerque.

[Josh Brolin]

I do, too. Santa Fe, Albuquerque, Mexico. All of it. What were you gonna say? What was I gonna say?

[Mark Marin]

You were at. I said, I like a poetry reading.

[Josh Brolin]

Oh, yeah. No, Cafe Lalo back in the 90s. And I was writing, and Anthony Zerby was a really close friend of mine, and he and Rosco Lee Brown used to do this poetry reading. And I can't think of anything worse and more boring than poetry read readings. Yeah, especially. Especially actors doing poetry readings. And there was a time in the 90s where actors were, like, publishing it. Yeah, we're doing it. And they'd go to Cafe Lalo, and I went to. Somebody said, you should go to Cafe Lalo. You should meet us there. And I brought a bunch of poems, and people would get up, like Stephen Baldwin. And he'd be like, my balls. And everybody would go, yeah, you go like this. And it's like, oh, Bukowski and all this. And then I got up and I read poems, and nobody said anything. There was no reaction that. That. Because I took it very seriously.

[Mark Marin]

Well, that's meant something.

[Josh Brolin]

Something to me.

[Mark Marin]

Well, that's the. That's. See, you have that in you. So that's the real risk, is that you can't help but be vulnerable.

[Josh Brolin]

Exactly.

[Mark Marin]

And then that means, like, if you have a certain ilk, you can't help but walk away from that, going, like, why did I do that?

[Josh Brolin]

Why'd I do that? Half of my life has been like, why I do that? And then I go right back and do it again. I know. So what I was saying before is, you doing that movie, wait till you get another one and then another one. Because you put yourself out there. And I respect anybody. Whether you're old or not and zinned out or not and sweating and ready to take a show, you've put yourself out there, and I respect you for it, man.

[Mark Marin]

So how much did you like to. You know, it feels like a good place to end, but I want to know, like, did you journal?

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah. 90. 90. I think it was 88 recently. It's like 91 full journals, so.

[Mark Marin]

Because a lot of this is very immediate, and it didn't feel like you were just recall.

[Josh Brolin]

No, there's stuff that probably half the book is. No more than that. Everything is rewritten.

[Mark Marin]

Right.

[Josh Brolin]

No, I take any. Everything from a journal. So I would look at a journal.

[Mark Marin]

Got you back there.

[Josh Brolin]

And it would. It would get me back there. It would spark a memory. And then I would riff on the memory. So everything's written now, but I would say at least half the stories are just kind of stories that came to me and I said, or like the Sam Shepard story. I don't like the way this sounds. It sounds like I'm name dropping.

[Mark Marin]

Right.

[Josh Brolin]

So I'm going to call myself out. I'm going to call myself out on the name dropping and what would be the satire version of a name dropper and this guy who can't. Who's trying to impress and this. And it's all about famous or infamous and this guy that I've known and this guy that I've known and nothing's working. And it finally goes back to, like what you and I were talking about of the memories that actually mattered, which is the girl that I spent four hours with in Copenhagen train station and truly had some type of love affair that I can't let go 50, 45 years later.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. Thank God you didn't spend another hour. Another hour would have fucked that for 50 years.

[Josh Brolin]

We would have had 10 kids. But seriously, man, you go back to the end and it's fun playing with story and narrative like that.

[Mark Marin]

Why'd you choose to go back and forth like it was interesting, that kind of the back and forth between Goonies and no Country.

[Josh Brolin]

Because to me, that's kind of, you know, it exploits the name, the title of the book, you know. What's the title of the book? There's a double entendre in the title of the book. You're either fixing something or you're getting run over. It's a choice.

[Mark Marin]

But also, there's the guy. Well, I mean, it appears in the story about your mom drinking that guy under a truck.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah. Then very good. Yeah, there's the guy under the truck, which is probably where it came from, but that's how I see the story. So to me, it's like, look, you know, where are you destroying your life and where are you. Where you're actually becoming more malleable and working with the chaos of the circus and not against it.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. It's when you are able to ask that question.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. If you can't ask that question, you're.

[Josh Brolin]

You're. And don't write any books or go hire your other person.

[Mark Marin]

So what's now. Now My brother's into the ice baths now.

[Josh Brolin]

Too.

[Mark Marin]

So is he.

[Josh Brolin]

What?

[Mark Marin]

What is. Is it really.

[Josh Brolin]

Is it great? You know what I got away from because we moved. We actually moved up north. We moved out of la. We still have our Venice place that we rent. We moved out of la. We're always talking about moving. Where do we want to end up? Should we go back east? Should we go to Europe?

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Now we've ended up in this place that I'd never felt as settled as I do right now and is inspired.

[Mark Marin]

I think I've seen pictures of it on the Instagram. I think it's pretty.

[Josh Brolin]

It's super beautiful. It's super beautiful and still scrappy. And I thought you had an ice bath up there, so. No. So I had the ice bath, and I've done ice baths for 20 years. Like, yeah, going over and being with Laird and doing that, it's more of an exploited ice bath thing, so people know about it more. But I've been doing it forever. And then I just. So I don't have an ice bath right now, but the shower I have is so cold. And I got away from it. So two weeks ago, I started doing it again. And I'm telling you absolutely unequivocally that that is the reason why my. Something has lifted. Because I've been doing it every single morning for at least three or four minutes, freezing cold. And I did it this morning. I fucking felt great. So I do think. I think it has. I know guys with depression that I've said, go do this, and they've said, I actually feel it difference.

[Mark Marin]

So, yeah, my brother's like that, too.

[Josh Brolin]

You gotta do it.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. You did it on snl.

[Josh Brolin]

I did it on snl. And Lauren, by the way, was like, you can't do it. It's not funny. I said, I'm not trying to be funny.

[Mark Marin]

You're trying to help people.

[Josh Brolin]

No, it's not even that I'm trying to help people. It's just I'm. I'm. I'm expressing myself in the way that I know me to be. And that's what people respond to.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Oh, Brolin's a little crazy. Just kind of does what he wants. Let's just follow it. And, yeah, we can make fun of him or we can say, good for you for doing what you want. And then finally he said, okay. And he came up to me afterwards. He goes, it worked. It worked. I go, thank you. Thank you for that. That's going back to, like, the director. He goes, you're wonderful. I think you're great.

[Mark Marin]

But were you spinning after it? Were you wondering whether.

[Josh Brolin]

No, I wasn't the poetry thing. I was the poetry thing that I did because we were kind of trying to exploit the thing that I did with Greg Frazier, that great dp. He. And I did a book called Exposures, My Writing and His Photographs, and it became a bestseller. It did really well. And so I was riffing off something that they said, like, you know, writing about Timothee Chalamet in a way that sounds super creepy.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

So I'm like, okay, let's throw it in everybody's face. Yeah, why not?

[Mark Marin]

It is weird, though, that when you have that. Because I think it comes that vulnerability, that persistence to take those kind of chances of not being able to do it any other way and putting yourself out there. I always try to analyze it like, you know, what am I really looking for from this audience? You know, am I. Is it really my form of the expression, or am I. There's some part of me where I think, like, I'm defying you to love me as me.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah. I think that's probably what it is. I think that's what it is. But there's two. I hate the idea of hiding.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

I hate the idea of I want you to perceive me one way, but I'm really something else.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. That. I think sometimes you do it naturally, just as a defense mechanism, and then all of a sudden, you're stuck with this, like, well, they think I'm that guy.

[Josh Brolin]

Totally.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. And then.

[Josh Brolin]

And then how am I going to live up to that? Or how am I going to live down to.

[Mark Marin]

What about the guy I'm hiding?

[Josh Brolin]

I remember when I was. When I was drinking, there was a guy. I. I remember his name, but I won't say there was a guy. And then he said, hey, will you go to this. My friend's in town.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Will you meet me at this bar?

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And I had gone through something maybe a couple of days before, so I said, okay, I'm not going to drink for a few days.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And I got there, and he says, hey, you know what can I get you? And I said, no, I'm not water. I'm just gonna. I'm not gonna drink. And he goes, what do you mean? And I go, what do you mean, what do I mean? He goes, but my friend's here. I told her about you.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And I was like, oh, I'm your clown. I'm your. I'm your drunk clown.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Wait till you see Brolin lit up.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

It's crazy. We're probably going to jail tonight. But I know when to run away. Yeah, but he'll go, and I go, and that's that thing. It's like, I don't want to pretend to be this thing. I don't want to be. I don't want to be your puppet master.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Let's just resort. Let's let the old men resort back to who they are and actually what moves them, and we'll exploit that and play with that a little bit.

[Mark Marin]

Right.

[Josh Brolin]

Because that's what we do. We express ourselves. You do a podcast, you act. I write you. Right. I mean, it's what we find ways, paint, whatever.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

That's just in us.

[Mark Marin]

It's the nature of us. And the thing you were saying earlier, too, about, like, whatever. I don't remember. It was golf or whatever, is that you have this moment where you get to a certain age, like, you know, and there are people that just, like, want to, you know, go to work and then come home and eat and watch a thing, and. And it's like, I've never lived that.

[Josh Brolin]

I don't even know what it is.

[Mark Marin]

I have no idea what it is.

[Josh Brolin]

No idea what it is.

[Mark Marin]

No idea.

[Josh Brolin]

I know.

[Mark Marin]

And that's not like. Some people think, well, that's because you're entitled. It's like, no, I have no choice.

[Josh Brolin]

I never knew what that was.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. And it's just. It's not like, you know, like. Well, you know, you. You didn't have to do this. No, I. It's not. I never. There was no other way.

[Josh Brolin]

But I also experienced, you know, something that Cumming said in this thing about security. He was like, security is a fallacy. It doesn't exist. What, you think if you go, hey, I got this thing, and I go here, and then I go to work, and then I go to the coffee shop and I make that barista laugh, and then I go get my sandwich, and then I go home and it's all. All safe.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And then happens, which is inevitable, and they go, I don't know what happened. I was just doing my thing, man. Yeah, so it's like, always happens.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And my. My. My version of it is just stay in the.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Just. Just have a relationship with the.

[Mark Marin]

Stay in the.

[Josh Brolin]

Stay in the.

[Mark Marin]

That's a good. That's a good way to end. Great talking to you again, man.

[Josh Brolin]

Great seeing you, man.

[Mark Marin]

There you go. That book from under the truck, Josh's memoir, is out November 19th. Hang out for a minute, folks. Folks, this episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds because Progressive offers discounts for paying in full, owning a home and more. Plus, you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it. So your dollar goes a long way. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance. That's progressive.com and here's some legal info. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations on the latest full Marin bonus episode, I talked about the experience of being a lead in a movie and how everything felt just days after we wrapped. I don't know, a lot of things came together in in my sort of moving towards this thing, you know, and I think a lot of them had to do with a lot of preparation. Came from many guests giving me acting tips and acting lessons. It's really wild. That really actually did wind up paying off. Like all the times you've talked to people and you've been like, I'm just gonna get acting advice. And I think I notice it from things you say about your performance in this thing. Oh yeah, you pick that up talking to people. A lot of it. To get bonus episodes twice a week, sign up for the full Marin. Just go to the link in the episode description or go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF Plus. Once again, this episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. What comes to mind when you hear the word gratitude? Maybe it's a daily practice you have, or maybe it feels hard to be grateful right now. Don't forget to give yourself some thanks by investing in your well being. BetterHelp is the largest online therapy provider in the world, connecting you to qualified professionals via phone, video or message chat. Let the gratitude flow. Visit betterhelp.com to learn more and save 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp help. And a reminder before we go. This podcast is hosted by Acastic, so I know I'm repeating riffs, but now I can loop them and play with myself. Yes, I said that. This is me playing with myself. Sa.

[Josh Brolin]

Sa Sa.

[Mark Marin]

Boomer lives Monkey and LaFonda cat angels everywhere.