Episode 1604 - Ron Livingston

Summary

WTF with Marc Maron – Episode 1604: Ron Livingston

Release Date: December 30, 2024

Guests:

• Ron Livingston – Actor known for roles in Office Space, Swingers, Band of Brothers, and Sex and the City.
• Rosemarie DeWitt – Actress and wife of Ron Livingston.

---

1. Opening and Personal Reflections [00:00 – 02:38]

Marc Maron opens the episode by sharing his tumultuous holiday experience, expressing feelings of anxiety and personal shortcomings regarding traditional holiday practices. He introduces Ron Livingston, highlighting his extensive career and personal connection through Rosemarie DeWitt. Marc also briefly discusses his upcoming 2025 tour dates, setting a candid and personal tone for the conversation.

2. Family Challenges and Emotional Struggles [02:38 – 05:19]

Ron Livingston delves into his family's recent hardships, particularly his father's emotional breakdown during the holidays. He recounts a distressing incident where his father became verbally aggressive, expressing feelings of isolation and rage. Ron reflects on the impact of witnessing his father's struggles, drawing parallels to his own efforts to manage anger and maintain emotional stability.

"I see this happening And I imagine this is the same with a lot of people who experiences the breakdown of their parent with this thing." [04:50]

3. Coping with Personal and Household Crises [05:19 – 07:39]

Continuing the discussion, Ron shares additional stressors, including his cat Charlie’s sudden health issues and a leaking ceiling incident. These events compounded his anxiety, leading to feelings of helplessness and frustration. Rosemarie DeWitt adds context to these challenges, emphasizing the unpredictability and emotional toll they take on the household.

4. Life in the Entertainment Industry [07:39 – 16:25]

The conversation shifts to Ron's acting career, discussing the complexities of maintaining authenticity while navigating industry expectations. Ron touches upon his experiences with typecasting and the pressure to conform to certain roles, highlighting his commitment to delivering genuine performances.

"I love the waiting... I just lay down and take a nap. Just lay there, you know, and watch." [18:08]

Rosemarie DeWitt and Charlie contribute insights into the demands of acting, the balance between comedy and drama, and the personal growth that comes from embracing diverse roles. Ron reflects on his journey from theater to television and film, acknowledging both the challenges and rewards of his career path.

5. Reflections on Iconic Roles and Projects [16:25 – 30:03]

Ron discusses his role in Office Space and how the film gained cult status over time, particularly through home video and cable reruns. He explains the initial box office performance versus the film's enduring popularity, attributing its success to relatable themes of workplace dissatisfaction and existential despair.

"Office Space was one of the first movies where they all of a sudden had this other revenue stream for it." [65:00]

The conversation also covers Ron's involvement in Swingers, detailing how the film was a stepping stone in his career and his collaboration with co-stars like Jon Favreau. Rosemarie shares anecdotes about their early days in the industry, highlighting the camaraderie and mutual support that fueled their professional endeavors.

6. Personal Growth and Life Beyond Acting [30:03 – 50:35]

Ron opens up about his personal life, including his marriage to Rosemarie DeWitt and their collaborative efforts in writing and producing projects. They discuss the balance between personal and professional lives, the importance of community, and the challenges of maintaining authenticity in both spheres.

Rosemarie DeWitt offers her perspective on Ron's approach to acting and life, praising his ability to remain grounded despite the pressures of fame. They reflect on their upbringing, family dynamics, and the values that shape their current lives.

7. Future Endeavors and Current Projects [50:35 – 74:46]

Looking ahead, Ron talks about upcoming projects, including a pilot he and Rosemarie are developing. They share their experiences navigating the evolving landscape of the entertainment industry, particularly the shift towards streaming platforms like Netflix.

Ron recounts his time on Loudermilk, a series that gained renewed attention through Netflix, and the gratification of seeing his work resonate with a broader audience years after its initial release. He emphasizes the importance of passion and dedication in creating meaningful and impactful content.

8. Closing Thoughts and Final Reflections [74:46 – End]

As the episode winds down, Ron reflects on his journey, the lessons learned, and the ongoing pursuit of creative fulfillment. He underscores the significance of personal connections, resilience in the face of adversity, and the continuous evolution of one's craft.

"We're all here together." [81:28]

Marc Maron concludes the episode by encouraging listeners to check out Rosemarie DeWitt’s episode (1593) and promotes upcoming special features, emphasizing the sense of community and shared experiences that define the WTF podcast.

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Notable Quotes:

• Ron Livingston [04:50]: "I see this happening And I imagine this is the same with a lot of people who experiences the breakdown of their parent with this thing."

• Ron Livingston [65:00]: "Office Space was one of the first movies where they all of a sudden had this other revenue stream for it."

• Ron Livingston [81:28]: "We're all here together."

---

Conclusion

In this deeply personal episode, Ron Livingston opens up about his struggles with family issues, the highs and lows of his acting career, and his ongoing journey of personal growth. Supported by Rosemarie DeWitt, the conversation offers listeners an intimate glimpse into the life of a seasoned actor navigating both professional and personal challenges. Marc Maron's authentic interviewing style ensures that the discussion is both engaging and relatable, making it a must-listen for fans and newcomers alike.

Transcript

[Mark Marin]

Lock the gate.

[Ron Livingston]

All right, let's do this.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

How are you?

[Ron Livingston]

What the. What the Buddies? What the Nicks? What's happening? I'm Mark Marin. This is my podcast. If I sound a little vocally compromised, it's because I got a cold. That was the big payoff of this horrendous Christmas week. Yeah, it was all going not so great. A sequence of events, man. It's just a sequence of events. I wasn't putting a lot of weight on the holidays, you know, I do know it quiets down and that's nice generally, but whew. It was kind of surprisingly anxiety ridden and crisis ridden a bit again. I'm alive. Everything worked out, but it was not great. I guess it was mixed. I guess it was mixed. And I'm not a holiday guy. I'm not a religious guy. I don't practice the rituals, really. You know, as I get older, I wonder, how am I an adult and I can't even muster it up to send out some Christmas cards or maybe buy a couple of presents. I like to say that, like, well, it's just not my thing. But really, it's just selfish on some level. What does it take? You know? What does it take? How you guys doing? So today I talked to Ron Livingston. You know him from Office Space, Swingers Adaptation, Band of Brothers, Sex and the City, and a lot of other stuff. He's married to Rosemarie DeWitt, who was just on the show and we asked him to come on, too. I always liked that guy. Felt like I knew him. And now I got to know him a little bit. And now you will, too. My 2025 continuation tour of my 2024 tour kicks off in less than two weeks. It gets started in Sacramento, California at the Crest Theater on Friday, January 10th. Then I'm in Napa, California at the Uptown theater on Saturday, January 11th. Fort Collins, Colorado, at Lincoln Center Performance Hall, Friday, the 17th of January. Then Boulder, Colorado at the Boulder Theater on Saturday, January 18th. I'll be in Santa Barbara, California at the Lobero theater on Thursday, January 30, San Luis Obispo, California, at the Fremont center on Friday, January 31st in Monterey, California at the Golden State Theater on Saturday, February 1st.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Ron Livingston]

Then I'm coming to Iowa, Missouri, North Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Texas, South Carolina, Illinois and Michigan. Heading into the special taping, which I'll give you details on as they Unfold, go to wtfpod.com tour for all of my dates and links to tickets. I'd go to New Mexico Christmas Eve you know, to hang out, see the old man, see where he's at with the. With the losing of the mind. And I go to a dinner party at his wife's family's house, a small one. See him hang out, have some tamales. Next day is the big party with his wife's family. And. And he seemed okay. A little detached, but okay. Still present. And then after that, I'm gonna go to the movie, so I'm gonna go see, you know, a complete unknown by myself. I'm out there by myself, and I go to the movie and, you know, I start getting calls from my dad's wife, and she's like, he's. He's. He's. He's having a meltdown or he's. There's a problem and I gotta leave the movie and call. And she's like, he's just yelling, you know, my son and. And grandkids came over to open presents, and your father just lost his mind, started telling everyone to fuck off and get the fuck out of the house. And, you know, fucking, you know, made a big scene and got very scary. And I said, well, put him on the fucking phone, you know, And I was like, what are you doing? What do you. What are you doing?

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

He's like, I don't know.

[Ron Livingston]

And I'm like, what did you do? What are you mad about? Why did you lose it? Why did you go into a rage? I didn't go into a rage. I'm like, what are you fucking mad about? I don't know. I just, you know, I don't know. I just, you know, no one was talking to me. And I was like, what? He's like, I just knew no one was talking to me. And I'm like, so you scare everybody. You start yelling and screaming and kicking around presents and stuff. What is that? He's like, I don't know. I'm sorry, Mark. I. You know, I'm wrong. I. I'm like, yeah. I mean, yeah. He goes, I. I don't do that, though. I'm like, you do. And then it was weird because I got choked up. You know, I got choked up because he did that before he got brain addled. He was a rager. And he was. It was. It was erratic and inconsistent and. And. And scary. And I told him, I said, you know, it gets pretty scary when you do that. He's like, I don't do that. And I'm like, you did. I'm choking up. And it's just weird. Like, you know, I see this happening And I imagine this is the same with a lot of people who experiences the breakdown of their parent with this thing. Is that, you know, what's left? Like, he's still got a lot of memories. He knows who I am and all that stuff.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

But, you know, the behavior that's left.

[Ron Livingston]

You realize, like, oh, this was my childhood. And like, it was kind of breaking my heart in that moment. That, like, I think he was really unaware of the impact of rage when we were younger. And I, you know, I had to reckon with that in myself. I was a rager and I had to reel that shit in because it's childish and it's scary.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah.

[Ron Livingston]

So that's sort of what's left. That emotional engine of anger and rage and self centeredness is what's left. I mean, I guess all bets are off that my dad, as he went through this, would become docile and, and more detached. Nope. It seems like the fuck you is going to. Is gonna stay till the end. And I don't know, man, it just makes me worry about me and sad about him. But this is what's going on. This is, this is what's up. And then, you know, the next day I start getting calls from the woman who's watching my house that Charlie is. Got diarrhea. And he's diarrhea everywhere in the house, like all over the house. He just has uncontrollable diarrhea. And I'm like, what the fuck is happening? Then I take my dad to lunch the next day and he gets sick and I'm like, holy shit. But it's not happening to me really. It's happening to Charlie, it's happening to my dad. Everyone's vomiting and has diarrhea and I'm just. With Charlie, I'm like, what are we gonna do? And that went on for two days. So I had Kip bring him to the vet and the vets thinks it's like stress induced colitis because I, when I leave. And then I realize, holy. Every time I leave, he either gets pukey or he doesn't eat, or he shits all over everything. And I'm like, all right, well, at least we know that, you know, that's something to, to, to know. It's weird, this sort of being triggered with the memories of a raging dad and then, you know, having this emotional connection to this animal and he starts shitting everywhere when he doesn't get the love he needs. Whew. And then like the next day, Friday morning, Kit comes by the house and.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

She says, the ceiling in the kitchen is leaking.

[Ron Livingston]

And I'm like, what the fuck is happening? There's shit all over the place. And now the ceiling's leaking water. And I'm like, God damn it, what is. And I'm thinking, like, a pipe blew. They're gonna rip my ceiling out. You don't have to deal with that. No water. All I'm thinking is like, oh, my God. What about mold? What about an open ceiling? What about, like, where the cat's going to eat? Where am I going to shower? What the fuck am I going to do? How are we going to fix this? And I get her to turn off the water main, which was sort of not easy. I had one of these. Had to put one of these flow things on there that you can turn it off from an app, but it was offline, so we had to turn off the main. I had to call a plumber, and I got to fly home early. I got to wrangle a team. I call a contractor, and he brought his plumber. And I don't know. Thank God. You know, you never know. People showed up for me. This guy showed up for me. He's a guy I know, outside of just being a contractor. I got home six at night. The water was off. There was a hole in the ceiling. Just in the paint, though. Bubble running down from underneath the main bathroom, upstairs in the bedroom, master bedroom. And so I'm like, all right, well, let's find this thing, and maybe we make a plan to get in the wall and start ripping this place down. Turns out it was just these bolts on the back of the toilet tank, and they were leaking. And I guess it picked up, and it was going right into the floorboard and down the ceiling of the kitchen and bubbled the paint and dump water and made a hole in the paint. But I guess I dodged a bullet. That's just a paint problem. That's not a rip, a hole in the ceiling problem. And then I woke up this morning with a cold. That's been the arc of my Christmas. That's been what's happening? And Charlie. Shit all over the house. I mean, there was shit all over the house. I'm like, I feel like I'm gonna be finding dried diarrhea all over my house for as long as I have this house. Not to mention the rat shit in the basement. Merry Christmas, Happy holidays. We've got a new sponsor today, and I think this one is right for everyone listening. Because no matter where you live, whether you have a house, an apartment, a large Living space, an economical studio, whatever. You'll be able to get the perfect furniture at Cozy. Cozy brings adaptable, high quality furniture to everyday living spaces. They have modular sofas and sectional, stylish and innovative storage units, customizable tables, washable rugs, and much more. And with their focus on modular designs and customization, Cozy grows with you. Now, you might be saying, that's nice, Mark, but I live in a fourth floor walk up. I can't get large sofas and beds into my place. And that's why Cozy ships in easy to cart boxes that can go up any stairway. Plus, you get your stuff in two to five days. It's easy to assemble, so you won't have boxes of unmade furniture sitting around for the first months of the new year. You'll be able to get everything set up quickly and easily. And how about this? Cherry on top. Shipping is free. Transform your living space today with cozy. Visit cozy.com that's C-O-Z-E-Y.com to start customizing your furniture. Ron Livingston is here. That's good news. He didn't really come over to plug anything. He, you know, we just invited him to come because I talked to his wife Rosemary, and you know, I, you know, I wanted to talk to him.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

He knew Lyn.

[Ron Livingston]

I like his acting. Seems like an interesting guy. And so this is me talking to Ron Livingston.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

This is remnants from the old studio. Like, the old studio is a very cluttered thing. So this all kind of just blended in with the rest of it now. It's just kind of reminders of the origins.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, I have the same thing. You can't, you can't. It would be. There's be so much emotional energy. I could spend four hours trying to figure out which of these things I can get rid of. And I'd have to relive like all.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Where it came from and what it's holding and all of that shit. And then at the end of the day, I would have just. I wouldn't get rid of any of it. I would have just like maybe grouped it differently.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Sure.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Made a pile. Yeah, this is the stuff that's gonna go.

[Mark Marin]

And then you sneak it back into maybe a different shelf or like.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah, I just went through my whole closet because I had a good 50 shirts that I got when I did my series. Marin. The wardrobe had figured out how I dress and I don't like to shop. So I had all these shirts. And I've moved out of my plaid shirt period. So now I now I have, like, 50 shirts. Pulled them all out. They're in a pile. And then the tea. Everything I made, I got rid of all the clothes. I put them in a pile that's been there for three weeks.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And I'm just looking at that pile, waiting for one of them to say something to me.

[Mark Marin]

Right.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And I don't know if it's gonna happen.

[Mark Marin]

No, I have. My closet is full of suits that I was gifted when I was playing Jack Burger on Sex and the City.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Right.

[Mark Marin]

And so that was a period of.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Time from fashion designers.

[Mark Marin]

From fashion designers.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Good shit.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. Like, you know, I mean, it's 20 years old, but I haven't bought a suit in 20 years because when do you wear them? And I can't afford anything as nice as this stuff was 20 years ago.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And. But if you wear this stuff, you.

[Mark Marin]

Know, I can, but I don't. I can't spend that money on that.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

I buy, like, I buy one suit for one thing, and I wear it for the one thing, and then a couple years later, I'm like, I got that suit. I could put that on. And then you think it's great. But then if people take pictures, they're like, well, Ron's got a suit from.

[Mark Marin]

20 years ago, which I actually don't care.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

I mean, hey, I don't care. I really don't. Really. I've given up caring, and I'm at the age where I don't think anyone else cares either, so.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

But you're also like. It's not like there are these people in the business, in the racket that we're in, that their whole life is being taken pictures of.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

So they've got people that are constantly supplying them with shit for that day, and they look great, and then that's it. They don't even own it.

[Mark Marin]

That's a hard job. I don't want that job.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Did you ever feel like you were on the precipice of having that job?

[Mark Marin]

I felt like I was on the precipice of if I wanted to. If I wanted to, like, do the next level of the stardom thing, I would have to learn how to do this because it went along with it.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Right.

[Mark Marin]

But I never. Yeah. And I hated it then. I thought it was dumb then, and I ultimately couldn't do it. I couldn't do it.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

But you were at a point. That's interesting because, I mean, you're very familiar to me just from. You're just one of those guys. I see you. I just like, I see you and I'm like, I know that guy. But there must have been a point where your people sat you down and said, this is it. So we're gonna get you publicist. We're gonna. This is it.

[Mark Marin]

Oh, yeah, yeah. No, it happened.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

It happened like, around 2000.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Which movie?

[Mark Marin]

It was for Band of Brothers. It was like going into Band of Brothers and it was like awards season, you know, you're stalking all that. And so. And. Yeah. And it was just one of those things. Well, you gotta have this.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And you gotta have this. And you gotta have this. And it's great, actually. It's kind of amazing because it's a person who is just dealing with a lot of shit that I would never, ever, ever, ever wanna have to deal with myself. Sure. And, you know, and then when you do have to deal with it yourself, you realize, oh, this was. Yeah, this was worth every penny, you know.

[Ron Livingston]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

A man, emails.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. But. And a lot of it was, you know, a lot of it was me just having some idea in my head of like, well, you know, you gotta send to the ranks of the such and such, you know, And I couldn't do it. I just couldn't do it. The thing I could kind of couldn't get over was at some point you gotta do that Tiger Beat photo where you have your hand up on the locker and you're sort of leaning.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

You know what I mean? And maybe you're probably shirtless for it.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

It's not Tiger Beat, but that's. That's a reference.

[Mark Marin]

Or people. You know, you have that, like, kind of. You push your eyebrows forward and you do that swoony look and stuff. I just couldn't do it without laughing. I couldn't. I couldn't do it. I couldn't be it. I couldn't be it.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

I couldn't. I tried. And I really, like. You know, I kind of, like, beat myself up. Because it's like, if you weren't that, then you. I don't know. Then what?

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Were you. Sure.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Like, who are you? What do you do? What justifies your life if you didn't.

[Ron Livingston]

If you're not one of those guys.

[Mark Marin]

And it was ridiculous because there was. There was a period where I think I was passing on parts that weren't that.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Because. But then when the parts that came along that were. That I would pass on those too, because I was like, I can't fucking do that. You know?

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Are you.

[Mark Marin]

How are you 57?

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Right.

[Mark Marin]

Was you going to ask me that.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

No, but, but that's good. I just turned 61, you know, you're right on. We're over the hump of some kind.

[Mark Marin]

We're over a couple of humps.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

A couple of hump. Heading for a new hump.

[Charlie]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Hopefully we make up, make it up this one. But, but how many times do you really think when you say no to something because of that, that sense of like. Ah, it's not that you were right.

[Mark Marin]

I will never know. Well, I mean I, I, I say no to everything.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah, but I'm not in the same position you are. But I, my initial instinct is like, where do I gotta. What I want? How long?

[Mark Marin]

Well, I'm not in that position anymore.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah, you're all right.

[Mark Marin]

I think there's the ones that, where like you say no to it and then it goes on to be wildly successful for someone else.

[Charlie]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

But then I'm like, okay, good.

[Charlie]

Yeah, good.

[Mark Marin]

Like I kind of made the right decision because look how well my decision turned out.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Like for somebody else.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah. Yeah. And that guy, do you ever do the like.

[Mark Marin]

And I might have ruined it.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

That guy did a better job than. Yeah, like I wouldn't have done what.

[Mark Marin]

He did most of the time. I mean I obviously I couldn't even like, I, I didn't want to. So I guess. What are you going to do?

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Do you like, do you, and I'm just asking this for my own personal reasons. Do you, do you enjoy acting?

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Oh good.

[Mark Marin]

I do. Yeah, I do. I love it.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And do you like. Because you find it like it took me a while to, to get over the waiting to do the thing. And then you do the thing for a few minutes and then you wait.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And then you do it again for a few minutes.

[Mark Marin]

I love the waiting.

[Charlie]

You do?

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

What do you.

[Mark Marin]

I'm back footed and you know, maybe bordering on like non ambitious interest. So it's like if, oh great, I'll take a nap. I'll, I'll, you know, go look at the food again or I'll study, you know, like, I'll do the lines.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Not just the lines, but like, yeah, like I'll inhabit, I'll inhabit the guy, the thing.

[Charlie]

Yeah, that's good.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

If you're, yeah. If you got a lot of scenes to do because you're locked in even if I don't.

[Mark Marin]

It's like the rabbit. I like the rabbit hole. I like going down the rabbit hole on stuff.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

I kind of, I do. I did kind of finally realize that when you are on set that if you're on set for long enough, it's just its own world. And when you come out of it, it's kind of jarring and depressing because, like, you know exactly what you need to do there.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. There's a call sheet.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And it's at the place. Even if you're waiting around, everything else is just sort of like, I can't. I can't do that.

[Mark Marin]

No.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

I love it. I love it. I love. I love that part where I don't have to come up with the call sheet. I love the part where it's all laid out on. Okay, we're doing this then and this. Then we're moving on to this.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah, but then isn't there the question of, like, why do I gotta wake up at that time?

[Mark Marin]

I mean, you know, I'm fine with it. I'm fine with it. I don't tend to spend four hours in makeup.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

I'm okay with it. If you especially, you know, like, if I'm on location, if you call me in at 5am and 12 hours later, we didn't get to my scene. And then they go, oh, I'm sorry, Ron, we're going to send you home. We just didn't get to it. You know, part of me is like, all right, well, I would have just sat in the hotel anyway.

[Ron Livingston]

Sure.

[Mark Marin]

You know, we have WI FI here, we have WI fi there. What was I gonna do? That was that much more.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

That was the magic moment for me. Is the Samsung TV in the trailer where I could hook up the Criterion Channel and all my Netflix and stuff.

[Mark Marin]

Oh, that changed. That's a big show.

[Ron Livingston]

Changed everything.

[Mark Marin]

That's a big show.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

I mean, like.

[Mark Marin]

Oh, you use your own WI fi. You just use. Yeah. 95% of the time. I found that those things don't work.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

None of them work.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, they're hooked up to, like, a satellite dish that's not. That's pointed down.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

That's right. Or it's a fucking nightmare. And you're just in there and you're like, why not? None of this works. Why is there a cassette player in here?

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, it's been there. Because. Yeah. They put it in there in, like, 1980.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

What does this machine even do?

[Mark Marin]

Right.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

None of them turn on.

[Mark Marin]

No. Well, they would. They. If there was someone a lot bigger than you or me in there, they would figure out a way to make it work.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Sure.

[Ron Livingston]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

I mean, I had a. Like, I did the Aretha Frankel movie and. And they put Me in Forest Whitaker's trailer one day, and it was like, this is like a house.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

It's like, oh, when I did the Joker, De Niro has his own bunker trailer.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

It's crazy, but, like, why not?

[Mark Marin]

That's a hard racket. I think they kind of cracked down on that for a while. That was the thing is, not only would they get their own trailer, but then they would rent it to the production and, like, charge them the money for it. Oh, there's a racket to it they're making. Yeah, it was a great. Yeah, that was a thing. I never got to the movie star.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Rental trailer racket where you get money to park your own vehicle at the place.

[Mark Marin]

Your own ridiculously huge, expensive thing that's tailored just how you like it. Sure. Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

That's a. That's all agents work.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah. I don't know. What do you request?

[Mark Marin]

I don't care about any of that stuff, honestly.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

I don't like when food's wasted, so I have a hard time with that.

[Mark Marin]

I. I kind of say if I have any of those bargaining chips, I always save it for, like, things that I think are going to make the movie better.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Like, I don't want to fight about, you know, I don't want to fight about dumb shit about whether my trailer's closer to the set than somebody. You know, like, I can't do it. Who cares? I don't care.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

It's like, I don't like it. I don't know. At what point your ego shifts to that. I mean, you have those moments where you're like, why the fuck do I have that? And then you realize, like, oh, because you're you and that's it.

[Mark Marin]

Some people feed on it. I think some people are better if they're. If. I think some people, like, get fired up by being in conflict all day.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And so those are things to be in conflict about.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Right.

[Mark Marin]

Sort of keep that edge up.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Sure.

[Mark Marin]

That. That's exhausting. I want to, you know, like, if I. If I want to go in and say, hey, can we look at these four lines? Because I think we can do better than this.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

I want that to be the thing where they're like, well, shit, Ron never complains about anything. Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Listen to him.

[Mark Marin]

He feels really strongly about this. So let's. Let's, you know, as opposed to.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

As opposed to, here comes this asshole.

[Mark Marin]

Right. Exactly. Now what does he want now? You know? Right.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

That's a. It's interesting process, though, when you do have problems with lines, isn't it? Because it's sort of like. I mean, as. As an acting person, you know, what comes out of your mouth and what's relative to the character.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And if there's something that's just like a turd and you're sort of like, I don't know. How can you say that?

[Mark Marin]

I mean, I figure it's a lot. A lot. Like, it's like a designer suit.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

I'm not saying that Hugo Boss didn't. I'm not saying I'm a better suit designer than Hugo Boss. I'm saying this sleeve is about 3 inches too long on me. Can we take it up a little bit?

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Like, just to fit me.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Make the adjustment.

[Mark Marin]

Right. I'm the guy that's wearing it. And then if they have an answer for like, no, this sleeve is supposed to be 3 inches long. Cause that's the fashion now. Then I'll know that and I'll be like, oh, okay. Oh, okay. I got it. I'll go with that. Okay, fine. But I do want to know that.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Because then I can move on to the next thing. And I would like the opportunity to try to always be making it better.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

I thought that I talked to your wife, Rosemarie.

[Mark Marin]

She's great. She's made of magic.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah, right. Did you get. When I couldn't remember, I was talking to her. Did you guys meet on Lynn's movie?

[Mark Marin]

No, we met. We were already get together. We met on a procedural show for fox back in 2006.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Right.

[Mark Marin]

Where we were like hostage negotiators in love.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Because how can that not work?

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And it worked out.

[Mark Marin]

And, yeah, it was great. And I didn't never. I would have never pulled her if she wasn't. She didn't actually have to. Like, she couldn't leave. I had most of a year where to work it. Yeah. Where we were together like 12. It just wore her down. Beat her down.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Isn't that good?

[Mark Marin]

When it was amazing. I needed it. I needed every minute of it.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

But I was talking to her about that. The portrayal of that agent in Adaptation is one of the. That is one of the best roles I've ever seen.

[Mark Marin]

Thank you.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

It's because Marty Bowen. Marty. What's his name?

[Mark Marin]

Marty Bowen.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Marty Bowen.

[Mark Marin]

Who's a real agent, by the way. Yeah. Who was. I think it was Kaufman. Kaufman's agent, I think. Or it was Spikes. But no, I think it was Kaufman's.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

You met the guy?

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, I have a. You know, he sent me like a Framed picture of the two of us, like.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah, but were you doing him?

[Mark Marin]

No, I don't. I didn't really know him that, like, I hadn't met him before. I didn't do that. But I think Spike had a very. I don't know. I mean, so much of it is on the page.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And then that's really funny. Cause I went. That was like a two and a half hour audition. Really? Yeah. Where I sort of went. I went in with, like, okay, it's an agent and people are dumb. So I'm gonna go do the stereotypical agent thing. And Spike spent, like, maybe an hour with me getting me away from that.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Just kind of giving me permission to, like. No, you don't have to do that. Do something.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Well, what would that have been? Because, like, to me, it is so specific in the sense that, like, look, you and I have known agents and met agents are our entire professional life. And, you know, obviously, I don't want to, you know, get myself in any sort of trouble here, but there is a component, a human component that an agent is missing.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And I guess it's necessary for their job.

[Mark Marin]

Oh, sure.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

But it's a very specific thing that you. The detachment of it that you got. That, like, was very specific and right on the money.

[Mark Marin]

You know, it's something that I think I understand from being an actor. And you deal with scripts your whole life, you see scripts your whole life, and as an actor, you're like, oh, this scene sucks. We gotta fix this scene. This is shit. Yeah, let's just fix it.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Let's.

[Mark Marin]

Da, da, da, da, da, da. And it's not until you then try to write something yourself that you realize, oh, my God, this is such a hard thing to do. What disrespect I've had for the thing that is. You know. And I think that's it with agents. They just. They're used to, like, brilliant people coming in and producing brilliant things. Right. And they. You just assume that it's commonplace and that people can just make it happen or that they actually know how to do it, too.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

You're the writer.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

But just drifting off into, like, looking at the women in the office was just too much. Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

That piece, I think I didn't actually know that that was an actual piece of a thing. But it was fun to. You know, it was fun to play. It was on the page. So it's like, oh, it's fun. Play that. And it's just seamlessly. Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And was it like Kaufman was there.

[Mark Marin]

All the time he wasn't there for the audition, he.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

But during the shooting.

[Mark Marin]

I don't remember him being there for the shoot. No, he might have been. If he was. He was sitting at the monitor and you know.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah, that was a.

[Mark Marin]

And it's like I had that audition and I thought this is. Oh, I have to get this because why would you spend an hour and a half on a person that you're not gonna hire?

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Right?

[Mark Marin]

And then I didn't hear anything about it for six months.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Really?

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. I think they either must have cast somebody else who fell out or they forgot to cast this role. And so like three days before it shot on a Friday at 6:30 or something, I was supposed to be on a plane. I was going to like, you know, I was going to France for I think, Band of Brothers opening or something like that. And thank God, you know, my manager's assistant was staying late and caught it and took it upon herself to like track me down and say, hey, do you. There's this part on Monday. Let's change your plans. Do you want to do it?

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

What was like a two day shoot?

[Mark Marin]

An afternoon. I was there for an afternoon. Half a day.

[Ron Livingston]

So funny.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

That movie is so fucking good.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, that's one of the. Not only the movie, like that script, I feel like that's maybe the best script ever written.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

It's crazy. I just rewatched it like not too long ago to just see how it held up and it's unbelievable.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. And then I read the Orchid Thief and it's like, oh my God, this is so. It so perfectly captures that story and the story about adapting a movie and the like, it's just, it's transcendent.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And Nicolas Cage is a trip.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, he. I mean again, I saw him for like half an afternoon and. Yeah. So I don't feel, I don't even really feel like I met him. I met him in the character and then he was giving someone an award. So he was like wearing a tuxedo by the time we got to my coverage. And then he like had to go.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

But you know, I've just been a fan of his work forever.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

But you were, he was there when you were.

[Ron Livingston]

He was there and.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah, because like, he's like, I think he's relatively underrated.

[Mark Marin]

I. I don't know that he's under because I think people think he's great.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Like, I'm like, what's he doing?

[Mark Marin]

I think it's just, he's one of those guys that he makes. He Chooses things. Like, he chooses the things that he wants to do because they. I mean, again, I'm projecting and I'm speaking, but, like, if I were Nick Cage and I would. You know, I think that's the thing that I respect so much about him is that.

[Charlie]

Oh.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

That he just does whatever the fuck he wants.

[Mark Marin]

He just does whatever the fuck he wants to do. And when people are like, wait, you're doing this? It's like, yes, I am. You know?

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And he's also like, you strike me as a guy like. And I'm the same way. We're practical people, and there's people that somehow have these egos that serve them, but, like, you know, they're just. They'll buy a dinosaur bones. And you're just sort of like, okay. Never think to do it.

[Mark Marin]

No.

[Charlie]

No.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

I can't even buy a new car.

[Mark Marin]

Do you need a new car?

[Ron Livingston]

Not really.

[Mark Marin]

Okay.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

But sometimes you're like, maybe I should get one of the electric ones.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

I don't know. Do you have an electric one?

[Mark Marin]

I have a Prius. So it's half electric? It's electric some of the time.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah. You're halfway helping.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, I would. I think maybe my next car will be electric, but I don't know. I think one of these cars would have to, like, die or.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah, if you buy a Toyota, it's not gonna die.

[Mark Marin]

It's. So far this one has lasted for. We're doing a Toyota spot now, but that's all right. Yeah, it's lasted for a long time. I had one. It was a Prius. I had it. It got totaled. Yeah, I got another one.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And they just keep going. Do you buy them or release them?

[Mark Marin]

I bought them. I bought them, like, cash outright, because. Why not?

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

I don't know why people lease cars. Because it just feels like you've rented a car and then when you bring it back, it's always going to be like, well, you know, there's a problem with the thing.

[Mark Marin]

And then I think it makes sense if you're a person who's gonna buy a new car every year.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Every couple years.

[Mark Marin]

I'm not gonna do that. I'm gonna drive the damn thing into the ground.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah. You get committed to your car. Either you grow up like that or you don't.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Like.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

You drive a car and you're impressed when you. Even if it's falling apart, when it crosses a certain threshold of miles, you're like, ah, this is a good car.

[Mark Marin]

You duct tape, you patch that shit back Together?

[Charlie]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

You just say. You personalize it. Where'd you grow up?

[Mark Marin]

I grew up in Marion, Iowa, which is eastern Iowa. It's a sort of lovingly referred. I call it the greater Cedar Rapids metropolitan area.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Sort of half ironic. Well, mostly ironically, Midwest. Midwest.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

I don't. I have no sense of that.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. Where are you from?

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Well, I grew up in Albuquerque.

[Mark Marin]

Really?

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Wow. Mike Judge grew up in Albuquerque.

[Charlie]

He did, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

That's.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

He went to the other high school, though. There's a lot of high schools, though. He went to Albuquerque High with my buddy Devin. I think he's maybe a year older than me.

[Mark Marin]

Is it all. All funny people in Albuquerque or just. No.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

He's the only one.

[Mark Marin]

Two of you?

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah, yeah. He's the only one that came out of there, I think. What's his name? Michael. The Doogie Howser guy.

[Mark Marin]

Neil Patrick Harris.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Neil Patrick Harris, Yes. I think he's. Albuquerque.

[Mark Marin]

Wow.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah, he's a talented guy.

[Mark Marin]

That's pretty good for Albuquerque.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah, that's. That's three.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

If I include myself in it. And I think, you know who used to live in Albuquerque. Do you remember the. The actor, I think is. Bill Daly was the guy from my Dream of Genie, the guy who played the.

[Mark Marin]

Oh, the neighbor.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

He was brilliant.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah, he was there for years. He ran the Albuquerque Little Theater.

[Mark Marin]

Major Healy.

[Charlie]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

He was fantastic.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah, he's great. Yeah, he was there forever. So that's another great Albuquerquean.

[Mark Marin]

Wow.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Who comes from where you live?

[Mark Marin]

Me, Ashton Kutcher. Oh, I know there's a couple more.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

So would you call it a suburb of Cedar Rapids?

[Mark Marin]

It's like you start a fight that you start, like a passive aggressive, nice Midwestern argument over that. Because it used to be a larger town than Cedar Rapids. And then the railroad came and Cedar Rapids became bigger and they grew together, but we. Yeah. You would never call it a suburb of Cedar Rapids.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Its own thing.

[Mark Marin]

It's just a very small town right next to it, and a lot of people live there and work in Cedar Rapids.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And your folks just come from there?

[Mark Marin]

They just came, yeah. Yeah, they lived there. They went to the same high school. My grandparents lived two blocks apart. Yeah. Small town.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Where does it. Where do they originate from? Scandinavian.

[Mark Marin]

Like German, English, Irish, you know, we lost it. We lost the thread. My mom's. My mom's grandfather was first generation from Prussia at the turn of the century.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Was he a farmer?

[Mark Marin]

He was a farmer. So he was in North Dakota.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

They got some sort of break they wanted people to figure out how to farm in that region.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And they brought in, like, Russian people and I guess Prussian people. They're just sort of like, you know how to do it.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. And I think there was constant, Like, Prussia was one of those places where there was constant war and a mandatory draft. So, like, I think he got out. Yeah, he got out of there.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Did you know. Did you know your grandparents?

[Mark Marin]

I did. I knew them. I knew them well.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah, they were around.

[Mark Marin]

They were around. My parents were young. My parents were. Well, technically, my mom was 17 when I was born. She turned 18 the day after I was born, technically. So she was 17 for a day and then she was 18. And you and me.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

That's young.

[Mark Marin]

Yes.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Were they married?

[Mark Marin]

They got married maybe five or six months before I was born.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

You know, they were high school sweethearts. Yeah. And that's.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

That's because my mom was 22. So, like, it's weird.

[Mark Marin]

Young. Yeah.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

But it's weird when you get to the age where you are and where I'm at and they're still around and that age difference does not seem parental. You're just sort of like, oh, you're just a few years.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Older than me. It's kind of creepy.

[Mark Marin]

I have a younger brother who's like the same age difference that I was roughly, from my mom.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

What?

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. I have a younger brother who's 17 years younger.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

How many siblings are there?

[Mark Marin]

There's four of us.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And that's the youngest.

[Mark Marin]

That's the youngest.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

That's crazy.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

But you guys, you know him?

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, I know him. Love him. He's great.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

But, like, by the time you were about to leave, he was just being born.

[Mark Marin]

I kind of. I knew him. Yeah. I saw him be born. Oh, wow. My mom. Yeah, I think she just. She was like. This was her fourth time giving birth and it felt like. I don't know if it was. She just wanted us to see it. I don't know how much of it was like. Because you're, you know, almost there.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Or. I want you fuckers to know what I went through for you.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Wow. That's a life changing moment.

[Mark Marin]

It really was. And we had a couple of. There were a couple of kids staying with us.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

At the time, my buddy Darren, because his parents had moved out of town, he was there.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And we had, like, just left him at your house?

[Mark Marin]

No, they came. They were in the. They were in the. They were in the room.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

But I mean, Darren's parents were just sort of Like, I'm going to give you.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, I mean, we talked about it. He knew, he knew there, you know, his dad, his dad passed away and his mom just, you know, needed to move somewhere else and Darren didn't want to go do senior year at a brand new high school state. So we were like, all right, stay with us.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And it was the other guy that.

[Mark Marin]

Was, it was a girl. It was, it was. Her name was Michelle. We called her Fred for, you know, reasons.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And did her parents leave her at your house too?

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, kind of. I mean, I think her mom, single mom, moved to, Moved to Vegas and Michelle. Yeah, she wanted to stay and. Yeah, it was just one of those things. We were, we were that house, we were kind of that house that was.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Like, yeah, come on, we got room.

[Mark Marin]

We got room, we got room.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

But did you have foster brothers and sisters too?

[Mark Marin]

No, no, no. It was just, it was just. I mean. Yeah, these were sort of like kids that were friends of ours.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Okay.

[Mark Marin]

And I mean, Michelle's got some funny stories because of course we don't have a room for her. So she's sleeping in a bed with my, you know, my sister who I think was nine or 10.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And she was in her teens.

[Mark Marin]

She was in her teens. But I don't know.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

But everybody got to go to the same school.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

All right, so what, like, and your siblings are in show business?

[Mark Marin]

No, not anymore. They all went through it. Well, my sister Jennifer was a TV journalist. She did TV news in Iowa. In Wisconsin. In La Crosse, Wisconsin.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

She was an anchor.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. News anchor years and years and years and changed careers maybe two years ago. And now she works for Mayo Clinic.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Got out of the news racket.

[Mark Marin]

I think she did it for quite a long time. And the business was starting to change and there was a change in ownership at the station. I think it was like a conservative. They wanted the political content to sort of change a little bit. And they also.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Oh, they got on the talking points. A dispatch network of right wing thing kind of.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Or at least there's some stuff we don't want you to talk about and we want you to take a pay cut while you're not talking about it. And they were sort of like.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Well, she was like, you can't really riff as an anchor too much.

[Mark Marin]

Not really, but it's, you know, I, I don't know. There's a journalistic integrity thing.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

She went to school for journalism.

[Mark Marin]

She did, yeah. And the other brother, John. John was an actor. We came out here at about the Same time.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And this is the youngest one or the one.

[Mark Marin]

This is the one who's like three and a half years younger than I am.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

So it's you, him, then her, and then Nick.

[Mark Marin]

Nick's the baby. And Nick came out and was like an actor for about a minute and was actually start. It was starting to kick off, and then he was like, this is dumb. I'm going back to school. And he does video. He's a video game designer now for Sony. They make video games. And my brother's work. My brother John works with him.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Oh, really?

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Well, that's a. I think that I have respect for people who say it's dumb.

[Mark Marin]

I do, too. I do too. I was sort of, like, taken aback a little bit, but I didn't have an argument. I was kind of like, it's not dumb, but, like, you could see, like.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

If you don't have a passion for it, just the notion of, like, the only thing. I want to be an actor. And then you do it a couple times. You're like, what is this?

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

How is this a life?

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, he. I think he. And we were. You know, he might have had to do. There might have been, like, a mini strike that happened or something. So there was five months of waiting. And. And there was. There's a lot of waiting anyway. And it was just like, fuck it. What am I waiting for? This is dumb.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

You're waiting for someone else to give you an identity for a few months.

[Mark Marin]

I think he just didn't. He just. It didn't. You know, you gotta love it. You gotta love it. He was doing, like, some improv stuff.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

But he was good. He had a natural. He just had kind of a natural thing.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

I think that's half of it, if not more than half of it.

[Mark Marin]

It's a big kickstart. I think in the beginning especially, you have to be a little delusional about your gifts and what you have to offer.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Um.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Did you go to school for it?

[Mark Marin]

I. I studied it. I studied it undergrad, so it was like, half and half. I didn't.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Where was that?

[Mark Marin]

I was at Yale undergrad.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

New Haven.

[Mark Marin]

New Haven, Connecticut. But not a conservatory program. Wasn't in the School of Drama. It wasn't the fancy Yale wasn't the fancy one. I mean, it was plenty fancy, but it was, you know, it was. You know, they wanted it to be an academic degree.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And then, of course, the people that were running the department realized that it's ridiculous. You can't have a Theater degree and not teach people how to do theater. Right. So it did incorporate, you know, some training aspect, but I feel like they always were trying to sneak that part in. Right.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

So it was really like, what was the degree that you were doing?

[Mark Marin]

It was called it English in Theater studies. I think any other place would have called it an English major and a theater minor.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Right. But in the theater minor being studying theater, not necessarily doing theater.

[Mark Marin]

Right. That was all extracurricular.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Right. And did you feel the. Were you in the same performance spaces as the big shots?

[Mark Marin]

No, not really.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Were there any big shots?

[Mark Marin]

Unless we were ushering.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

We got to use their library.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Who was there when you were there?

[Charlie]

Anybody?

[Mark Marin]

I don't necessarily remember, but what was.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Your first stage experience? What were you doing?

[Mark Marin]

I did Threepenny Opera.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

With the Dramat. I did like a Henry 4, part one.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And I did a lot of, you know, scene study. I think I got there having done lots of high school plays and junior high plays and community theater plays.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Oh, so you're already, like, way in?

[Mark Marin]

I was way in.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

I was way in by the time I got there.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

But doing musicals. Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Only because that's half. Half of what was high school.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. Being put on. So if you're not going to sit it out, you're going to do that, you know.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

So you knew pretty early that you're going to do it?

[Mark Marin]

I think so, Yeah. I think I did. I think I did, yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And so Yale, you stayed there the full run?

[Mark Marin]

I was there, yep.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And your parents are like, that's fine. An English degree from Yale.

[Mark Marin]

They were. You know what? It's. I think part of the reason that I went there is that it checked off the box that I had to check off. And once I checked off that box, I didn't. They were like, we don't even know now what to require of you because you checked off the. The biggest box we could think of.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

You finished college and had a good college.

[Mark Marin]

You finished college at a good college. And. And so. Okay.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

But what did they do?

[Mark Marin]

My dad was an engineer. And I remember they had a kid at like, 18, 17 and 18, me. So my mom was forced to drop out of high school because, of course, the scandal, you know, you couldn't have that.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And my dad, we, as a family, went to Iowa State. My dad studied engineering and was an aerospace engineer and transitioned to an electrical engineer. Had a career at that. Yeah. That was the only constraint, he said, was you can be anything you want except an engineer, because he Thought it was horrible. I think he just, you know, it was the thing that he was good at math, and so the guidance counselor said, you should be an engineer. And he was like, okay. And then he became an engineer. And then I think all those years later, he was sort of like, I don't actually like this.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Do you even understand what it is he does?

[Mark Marin]

It's like, lots of math problems to, you know, make sure shit doesn't break, basically. Like, you know, that's a good way to put it. And he kind of had a career where I think he just didn't enjoy it. Right. Until he got to the age where he could retire.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And at that point, he kind of blossomed because he realized, like, he just didn't have to take shit from anyone anymore. He could always say, fuck off. I retire. And then once he had that, he was like, oh, this is actually kind of fun. And he enjoyed it.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And your mom worked or she didn't?

[Mark Marin]

My mom worked. My mom did, like, you know, the things that, like, women were sort of allowed to do. My mom was. Did, like, in home daycare for a while.

[Ron Livingston]

My mom sounds like she did it the whole time.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, well, kind of.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

For teenagers, too.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, kind of.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

She sold Mary Kay, and then she worked at a feedlot doing order for fulfillment. She actually worked. She did, like, some soldering on the. At Rockwell Collins. On the. On the assembly line.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And then maybe four years, right around the time my sister was graduating. So I guess I'd been out of school for. Maybe I'd been out of college for four years. She went and got ordained and became Lutheran pastor, which was kind of her calling all along, but it took that many years for women to really be allowed to be a Lutheran pastor.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Lutheran's a pretty liberal one, right?

[Mark Marin]

It's pretty liberal, but, you know, not in the 70s quite so much.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

It's a Midwestern thing, the Lutherans.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. It's like. There's a Scandinavian, German, northern German part of it.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

So she had a congregation.

[Mark Marin]

She had a congregation.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Wow.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

What is the Lutheran angle?

[Mark Marin]

Lutheran angle was the. It's basically, I think, the origin of it. First of all, it's the very first piece of the Protestant revolution, which I kind of. It's Catholicism unplugged.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Right. So the idea is we don't need all this fancy shit.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Let's just have some wooden pews.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

We don't need. We're going to dispense with all the decorative stuff. Get back to ceremony. The pomp.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And we're going to. And it's ridiculous that the Bible's in Latin. We're going to translate it into all the languages that people actually speak. And we're not going to have the priest be the only guy that knows how to read the thing. Now everybody can read it themselves and make their own decisions for. As to what they think it means.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

But is it. Am I mistaken in that? It's a pretty inclusive, forgiving trip.

[Mark Marin]

I think you're thinking like Unitarians and Episcopalians. It's. It's. Yeah, it's inclusive in whatever. There was a lot. There was. I think historically there was a big anti Semitism piece involved.

[Charlie]

Oh, yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

With Luther.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. The main guy. So it's. I'm. You know, they didn't. They didn't solve all the problems with it, did you? Certainly.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Did you grow up believing?

[Mark Marin]

I did.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

That's good.

[Mark Marin]

I did, and I still do on a certain. It's just the. I think what's evolved is my idea of what believing means.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

You know, how so?

[Mark Marin]

Like, I think, you know, it used to be you either believe this or you don't.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

This is either true or it's false.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Right.

[Mark Marin]

And now I don't. I think, you know, people. I think even people with faith will tell you. They'll say, you know, you struggle. You have moments where you struggle with your faith, which kind of is basically saying, you know, there's some days when you believe it and there's some days when you don't. And you go back and forth on that shit. And I kind of take it a step further where it's like, they go, you know, like, do you believe in. Do you believe in Spider Man?

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

No, you don't believe in Spider man, but we can sort of talk about Spider Man. Like, we know a lot about Spider Man. If you talk about Spider man enough. And Spider man starts to take on, like, people are like, well, he lives in here. And they're like, no, he doesn't. There's a cannon on him. You know, and people will argue about, you know, So I think there's a little bit of that. I don't really have to decide whether it's real or not.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

But faith keeps you level sometimes, I think.

[Mark Marin]

So that's good. Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And you got kids now.

[Mark Marin]

I got kids.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And. Are you going to church?

[Mark Marin]

No.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

No.

[Mark Marin]

I mean, no, we're not going to. I wouldn't. We're not going to something that I think someone else would call a church. There's pockets of communities you know, again, it's like, what's a church? Yeah, sure.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Well, it's about. I think about community ultimately. Right.

[Mark Marin]

I think so.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

I guess it's nice to have someplace to go where you see the people, like, hey, how you doing?

[Mark Marin]

Right. We're all here together.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Subscribing to a thing.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And it's nice to see everybody.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

I'll see you next week.

[Mark Marin]

See you next week. You know, have some cookies on the way out.

[Charlie]

Exactly.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And that's that.

[Mark Marin]

Right.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

So when do you like, come out here?

[Mark Marin]

I was 25. Yeah, 25 it was.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

So after Yale, you go back to Iowa?

[Mark Marin]

I went back to Iowa. I had a. This was a really hard moment. I. I did a really weird thing that nobody ever does. You know when you take a semester off in school. Yeah, I took off the second semester of my senior year.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

So you're really testing whether or not you'd go back.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. I had joined my senior year. I was in. At Yale. There's acapella music. And this is back before Pitch Perfect and before it became cool.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

You're doing acapella thing.

[Mark Marin]

I was doing the acapella thing.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And you own that publicly.

[Mark Marin]

And you know what? Yeah, I'm old enough. Who cares?

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Now, could you walk back into it if someone said, hey, come on up.

[Mark Marin]

And I'd have to. Yeah, I'd have to rehearse. I'd probably have to rehearse this. I would try.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

So you're in an acapella group?

[Mark Marin]

I'm in an acapella group. And. But I'm a. I'm this theater major and I really wanted to direct a play as part of the big senior requirement. And I couldn't do both.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Right.

[Mark Marin]

So I took the semester off so that I would come back in the fall and. And direct an adaptation of the Cherry Orchard, which I did and was. Which was. I loved it. It was great. But what also happened is that that sucked up everything in the fall for me. So then after the play was done, I had about two or three weeks when I was supposed to do all the coursework from the other three classes that I needed to graduate. And I left campus in January with two papers that I hadn't written. It's the worst. So those were kind of hanging over my head. And I went back to Iowa, you know, back at my parents house. And I banged out the first one and then I had the second one and I just couldn't fucking do it. I couldn't do it. I couldn't. It was like just the thought of.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Writing a paper right now.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And I think it was both in that, like, I didn't. I hadn't attended the. It was, you know, I didn't have anything untethered to say.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And then I'm sure there was this kind of blockage piece where I realized that once I finished this, I was going to have to now move on to the next chapter and be ready to do that.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. So that was like. There was this kind of four or five months of dread, like an incomplete hanging over you. Incomplete. That if I don't get this in. This is what happened. Okay. There's a deadline. There's very gracious with the deadlines, but there is a deadline whereby if you don't finish it by here, it's the incomplete.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

All right. So I'm going to out myself. I had a buddy who had like a postage meter, and he was like, you know. You know, you can do is you can backdate it. So that'll work within reason. So you can have the. The. You know, And I was like, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to send it, but instead of, like, upsing it or whatever, the department, I'm going to send it Campus mail. So now it's gonna go to the whatever. And campus mail was notoriously like, that adds a couple of weeks for things to get places. And so that'll explain why the postage thing was like, whatever. Like, I'll get away with this. This'll be brilliant. And then campus mail lost it.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

The paper. The last paper.

[Mark Marin]

They lost it. They lost the last paper.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

The only copy.

[Mark Marin]

It never turned. And. Yeah. And so I kind of waited. I waited to hear back. I waited to hear back. I waited to hear back. I waited to hear back. Now we're way. We're like a month or two, the deadline, maybe three.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And I finally, kind of sheepishly, and I. Oh, I think I got the grade transcript. And there it is. There's the incomplete. And now I don't graduate.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

I don't have.

[Mark Marin]

I don't have the credit Right. And I was like, now I have to get on the phone and talk to somebody, you know, Now I have to. I have to call the professor. That's an unbelievable tale with a ridiculous tale.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Like, I can't now I. Now I'm like, whatever. And the professor was sort of like, I'm kind of in the middle of grading the next semester. Like, I. So I. I think I reprinted it and I resent it. And it was the kind of thing where he was going to have to go back and change the. You know, he was going to have to do an extra administrative step that he was not in any hurry to do.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Right.

[Mark Marin]

But that ultimately, yes, got finished. I did graduate. I did have nightmares about that for a while. I had, like, school nightmares about that for a long time afterwards.

[Ron Livingston]

The worst.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

I had an incomplete for a year after. And it was like a nightmare.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Because you move on in your main. In your mind, you move on with your life and you're like, how am I going to write about Blake right now?

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Barely understood it then. Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

This was. Think a class where two. Where, like, it was recommended but not required that you, like, be able to read in Italian.

[Ron Livingston]

Oh, my God.

[Mark Marin]

And I had no Italian, but I took the class because it was like Tuesday at 2:00. And that fit in with the other. I was doing schedule. Yeah, yeah. So I went to.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

But you got it.

[Mark Marin]

I got it. I got it done.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And then you came out here. Chicago first.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, Chicago. Three years in Chicago.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Doing what? Theater.

[Mark Marin]

Theater. I was doing theater. I was gonna be.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Good town, right?

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, it was great. I love it. Yeah, I love it. Yeah. It's funny. I went to do all the stuff that you don't go to Chicago to do. I was there, like, trying to do Ibsen.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah. Not to yell.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. You know what I mean?

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Angry new plays.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. Well, I tried to do that, but they had. They had people to do that at that point.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And my roommates were all doing, like, Improv Olympic and the Second City program and all of that stuff that you actually do go to Chicago to do. And I wasn't doing any of that, but I was around it a lot because I would.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

But you didn't do any improv.

[Mark Marin]

No, but I'd sit in the audience and be the one, you know, that would show up for all the student shows.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Sure.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Because you had friends.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. You have friends and you're the only one there. So you make all the suggestions.

[Charlie]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Because you know the game.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And did any of those guys go on to SNL or anything? Your pals?

[Mark Marin]

None of the ones that I like. A lot of the people that I knew sort of through that, like Horatio Sands. Jon Favreau was at IO. That's how I met him. Really? Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

He was doing the improv Olympic.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

In Chicago.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

So when you came to la, you knew him.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Didn't you come at the same time?

[Mark Marin]

We did. We came out. He had been out here. He did. Rudy, which is where he met Vince.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Rudy.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And he broke up with a girl.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

When he left Chicago.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Or I don't know if he broke up or they. I don't know. They broke up.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And I broke up with a girl. And we were both out here, and we kind of. He didn't really know too many people, and I didn't know too many people. So then. Then we got to know each other through that.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And then you end up in Swingers.

[Mark Marin]

And then I end up in Swingers.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

So how would. What were the first. So how'd you come out here and just start working?

[Mark Marin]

I didn't. I didn't. I had three things going for me. I had a friend who said he had a car he could lend me.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

I had a family friend who lived up in Northridge and said I could, you know, sleep in the room behind the garage.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And I had another friend who was doing, like, running a one. A little, you know, shoebox theater on Santa Monica Boulevard. And so, like. Okay.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Where all those other shoebox theaters are.

[Mark Marin]

Exactly. It was like one of those.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

It's a strange thing, that thing. There's, like, four or five little theaters there, and I don't know what goes on there.

[Mark Marin]

I think maybe it's a zoning thing or a cheap rent or something. Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

I remember there's a comedy show at one of them, but there's like, four of them down there. And then there's that Hudson theater, which is a little.

[Mark Marin]

That's where I was. I was on. On the offshoot side of the Hudson. And, you know, and I came out, the car was a lemon that he didn't lend me. He actually sold it to me. And then it didn't run.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

So it took a while. I had an agent. My agents in Chicago were like, don't do it. You're not ready. Right. And I was like, ah, I'm going.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

They were right. I wasn't ready.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

It's a real. It's. It's such a weird, isolated, lonely feeling to be out here without, you know, any way in. Because, you know, it's here.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

But it's just no way in.

[Mark Marin]

But that's the delusional piece that I think is really good to have, because I, like, I somehow believed that I was destined for greatness without having to figure out how it worked or really do all the legwork that it took.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Well, you're lucky. I mean, a lot of people come out in that situation, and they spend decades out here before. They kind of wake up wherever. They wake up and realize, fuck, it did not happen.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Because it's almost like a childish dream. Like, I'm gonna be a movie star.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And then just come out here. When does it happen?

[Mark Marin]

It doesn't. Ever. I don't think it ever happens, but every once in a while it. It happens.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

You get work.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

So you got a new agent and he started to work.

[Mark Marin]

No, I got the guy that sold me the car.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Felt bad. Yeah, he was. He was. I'd done it. I knew him because he'd done. I did a student film at school.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

He threw me an audition for like a one line bartender part.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And you can't audition with a one line bartender part, so they had me audition with a bigger character and I got that part and then that was kind of a start.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Which movie was that?

[Mark Marin]

It was called Lowlife.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

With. Starring Rory Cochran.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Okay.

[Mark Marin]

That guy's great, isn't he? Amazing.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Oh, my God.

[Mark Marin]

Freaking amazing. And he. He's like. He was. He was like the coolest guy in the. You know what I mean? Like, you know, like I was kind of this. Hi.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

You know, and he's the guy with like, you know, those souped up Mustang and the. Yeah, he just had all the cool shit.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

So I interviewed him once and it was like, intense.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. He's so smart, so bright. Really, you know.

[Charlie]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

But he's just one of those guys, like, he. You know. You know, he's very. He's intense and he's focused and there's definitely things he doesn't want to talk about.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And he keeps a lot. You know, he keeps the mystique going, but he always, like, whenever he acts.

[Ron Livingston]

It'S like, holy shit.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

He's.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

The fuck is that guy?

[Mark Marin]

He's like a real deal. He's a real deal guy.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

So you knew him when he was a kid, like, before we were kids. Dazed and Confused. Like, you know, he was in that.

[Mark Marin]

He might. This might have been right after that. Yeah, I think this might have been just after that.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And then. And then. Swingers happens.

[Mark Marin]

Swingers happen.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And that puts you on the map.

[Mark Marin]

That puts me next to the map.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Okay.

[Mark Marin]

That puts me close enough to the map that when they spill a cup of coffee on the map and they reach for something to wipe the map up with.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah, you're there, I'm there.

[Mark Marin]

They're wiping the map up with me.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah. But like, when you did. So you do that and then you get this Movie Office Space, which is like. I think it's probably one of the biggest cult movies around in its own way. Right.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

I mean. And you had no idea going into that. How did Judge find you?

[Mark Marin]

I came in and auditioned.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

It's, you know, it's a classic thing where Fox didn't want him. They were doing him. You know, he was. He was making them a bazillion dollars with Beavis, with King of the Hill. At the Hill at that point.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Okay.

[Mark Marin]

So this was like. I think they looked at it like, this is his vanity project. It'll keep him happy.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Right.

[Mark Marin]

But, you know, and they assumed that he's gonna cast, like a movie star and do the thing, and he had no interest in doing that. So by the time they finally. He finally wore them down and they were like, fuck it, we don't care anymore. Just take your, you know, take your stupid little vanity thing and do whatever you want with it. I think I was the only one left that hadn't auditioned for it yet. And I happened to audition for it on that day, and I understood it. Like, I understood his, you know, vision. It was a good fit. It was a good fit. His sense of humor lined up with mine.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

You know, I mean, his is better than mine, but it's like. It was. I. I could. I could see it.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And then it's just like the rest is history.

[Mark Marin]

And some of it, it's like. They're so. It's so dumb. Like, I had done Swingers. That was kind of one of my only credits. I'd done Swingers and I had done in, like, this independent movie that hadn't come out yet.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

That basically, I think, wouldn't really come out. But nobody knew that yet.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

That was the. The lowlife.

[Mark Marin]

It was something it was after. It was called the Two. Two Ninas. Okay.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

It never came out.

[Mark Marin]

Maybe it went to video. I think maybe it did, like a day at the Angelica or something. You know, it was like one of those. Yeah, but we didn't know. But, you know, you don't know that there. So it's like, that's a credit. You're playing a lead.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And it's. I remember meeting him after I'd been cast, and he was like, yeah, Swingers. That was a good movie. And I was like, yeah, thank you. Yeah. He's like, I love that scene, like, where you, you know, you pull out the gun in the parking lot. And I'm thinking, oh, that's not me. That's the wrong guy. That's the wrong guy. He's got the wrong guy. And I just said, yeah. You know, I'm not, I'm not saying shit at that point.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And did you. But you had no sense by doing Office Space. Like, how long did it take for that to pick up steam? Like, was it right away?

[Mark Marin]

No, it was forever. I. You know, what happened was DVD and cable, like movies wall to wall on Comedy Central was not a thing.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Right.

[Mark Marin]

So if you, you know, if your movie tanked in the. In the box office, that's it. It was done.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Right.

[Mark Marin]

And Office Space was one of the first movies where they all of a sudden had this other revenue stream for it, which was Comedy Central.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And home video.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Right.

[Mark Marin]

And it. It really kind of caught fire and came alive there.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Which surprised everybody, you know.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Because they didn't. That hadn't existed.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Was it years later? Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Oh, it took years. It took years. It was like a slow. It was just a slow ramp up where it's like, huh.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Somebody wrote an article about how people are having work parties and watching this movie.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And it just, it just got. It just kept getting kind of bigger and bigger and that's crazy. Bigger and more.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And that's probably like. That's the most. You're probably recognized for that more than anything easily. Because the whole generation of people now.

[Charlie]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And it speaks to something.

[Mark Marin]

It's like, it's weird. It went viral. Pre Internet.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And it's like, you know, I've never worked in that situation, but it feels like it was the beginning of the modern workplace comedy. Really. I mean, I don't think without Office Space, you don't get, you know, the Office, you don't get.

[Mark Marin]

Oh, sure.

[Ron Livingston]

Like just all that stuff.

[Mark Marin]

No, they had precursors. Like Jack Lemmon in the Apartment, I remember, was something that I watched, you know, like, there it. It existed kinda.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

That's such a heartbreaking movie. Hey, can I get the keys? Oh, my God.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

It had that, like, despair, the despondency piece to it.

[Charlie]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And then I think, you know, it connected. I didn't realize this till years later. I think a lot of Office Space is. It's a movie about depression.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah, it kind of is. Right.

[Mark Marin]

You know, there's a piece of it that's like, how do you climb out of depression?

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And I think that, that. I think that just people related to.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

That, to the existential despair of just.

[Mark Marin]

Having to work, of what am I doing? Just like, what is, you know, what is my life is this all there is?

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Were you feeling that at the time?

[Mark Marin]

I've always had a. You know, at the time I'd just been cast in a studio movie, so I was kind of high flying. But, yeah, it's like, I'm not a guy that verges on the manic.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

I'm not a guy that verges on the anxious.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

I'm a guy that verges on the. On the depressed.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Oh.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

So. Yeah. So I know that piece.

[Charlie]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

I don't. I. I find that with me, I'm definitely the anxious. Like, when depression happens, it's not going to stick.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Because I'll find an anxious way out of it.

[Mark Marin]

I could. I mean, I knew that in the very beginning. Cause you're like, you were saying, I'm sitting in the trailer and I'm going, what's going on? Where are we doing? What's taking so long? You know, that's not me. I just lay down and take a nap. Just lay there, you know, and watch.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

The day go by. I just, you know, and then you get that, like, they're on the scene before you kind of wait.

[Mark Marin]

Great. Can you give me like a seven minute? When you're seven away, come and get me so I have time to piss and, you know.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

So. But that. That the Office space got everything going.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, sort of. I mean, it's such a. Yeah. You know, it's like they're huge jumps, but you need so many of the fucking things.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

But you. I mean, it's fortunate for you that you can do, like, you can do comedy.

[Mark Marin]

Yes.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

You know, and it's like, it's second nature to you, but you can also do all the serious shit.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Ron Livingston]

That's a rare thing.

[Mark Marin]

I don't know that I do either of them incredibly well, but I always kind of wanted to do both of them. I've been told at different parts of my career that I couldn't do one or the other. Like early on because I went to Yale and I was doing Ibsen in Chicago there, that I was auditioning for all those under five lines on sitcoms. And they were like, you know, and I get the note. Like, he can't do comedy. He doesn't know comedy. And then after Office Space and a couple of sitcoms, they were like, well, he's not a. You know, he's a half hour guy.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

This is agent saying this.

[Mark Marin]

It's like casting people to my agent and then my agent feeling somehow that that's something that should be relayed to Me.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

But it's interesting because you are like. I mean, I think I feel like you're a singular kind of guy, but there's a lot of actors that just kind of float around and do acting jobs that you don't remember. But you're memorable. But they didn't know what to do with you, really.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. Or, you know, I didn't know what to do with me, either. I had this. They did know what to do with me. And I said no to a lot of it because I kind of had this idea that once you did something, you weren't supposed to go do it again. You know, go do something completely different now.

[Charlie]

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And that's not where the opportunities generally lie. They generally want you to go do something. Here's an opportunity to do something bigger of the thing that you just did.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And I didn't, like. I didn't ever want to do that.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

But you keep working.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. Keep working.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Even now.

[Mark Marin]

Even now.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

I mean, maybe.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Well, how'd that. How did Loudermilk do? That was funny.

[Mark Marin]

That's another one. It's funny. It's like Loudermilk had a huge January this year on Netflix. We stopped shooting Loudermilk before the Pandemic. So we did three seasons of that in sort of isolation for AT&T. And it aired on a channel, you know, deep in the 2002 on DirecTV that you had to have the dish.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

They asked me when you get like, yeah, there's those TV stations where when you're doing junkets, they're like, we do this interview on whatever. And you're like, what is that?

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

You can't find it.

[Mark Marin]

You can't find it.

[Charlie]

No.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

So it's lost.

[Mark Marin]

It's lost. Yeah. And it's the. My dad. My mom had to go watch those episodes at a neighbor's. Cause my dad was like, we're not paying for that. Right. So, like, it was. It was hard to find. I wouldn't pay for it either.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And then Netflix picked it up.

[Mark Marin]

Netflix picked it up, aired it in January. Everybody discovered it. It was. It had an amazing moment. There's a. You know, there's that moment where you're like, let's get the band back together and make more.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

I don't know if that's gonna happen. It's probably not gonna happen, but I'd love it if it did. But. Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And that. That deals with a guy who's like, a sober guy.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. Sober guy. Yeah. It's kind of cranky.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Sober guy.

[Mark Marin]

Cranky sober guy. It's funny. He's a recovery group.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Well, he's a recovery guy, but he's a dry drunk.

[Mark Marin]

Dry drunk. Oh, absolutely.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Now when you do a part, what's the research? What's your research component? Or are you one of those guys just sort of like. I get it.

[Mark Marin]

A little of both. I mean, there's kind of the part that first hits me that's sort of like, I think when, you know, I just imagine and I go, this is a part Walter Matthau would play. Yeah, right.

[Charlie]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

So now I'm like, okay, I've got Walter Mathau in my head a little bit. Okay, that's a good start. Yeah, I did go. I went to. I went to a couple of meetings. The first meeting I went to was in Vancouver. I thought it was gonna be.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Did you shoot up there?

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, we shot up there. And I thought it was gonna be one of those meetings where it's like 50 people in a room and there's coffee at the back and I'd sit in the back row and like, listen to some stuff.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And we went to a little one.

[Mark Marin]

I got there and it's like seven people sitting around a table. So I kind of. I had to talk, you know, and like people are. And it's. People are laying their shit out there and I was really grateful for it because I. As they was going around, I was like, okay, I can't. I kind of can't lie. I have to. I'm going to cop to the fact of like I'm doing a TV show and there's. I'm doing some research and that's why I'm here. And the hilarious thing is they're like, sure you are. You know, like I left there with the sponsor anyway and the literature, they're like, uh huh. TV show.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah, sure, you keep coming back.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, exactly. It works for good.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And. But I think the thing that I took away from it was as it was going around, I was like, oh, this is sacred, you know, like, this is important. We can't make fun of this. Like, we can make fun of this with love.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Right.

[Mark Marin]

But I have, I. This is people's lives, saving people's lives.

[Ron Livingston]

It's at stake here.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Right. And so I'm gonna treat it. I gotta treat it like that.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

You know, and that's. That's like I would for the time that we. I would, I would, I would be sober while we shot that like for the three months that.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Oh, really?

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And did it. Was it the kind of thing that you felt?

[Mark Marin]

I think it was just the kind of thing where I felt like I owe that.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

I do that. Do you drink enough to miss alcohol?

[Mark Marin]

You know, oddly enough, as I used to drink a lot more and then that. Doing that. I wouldn't say that I don't drink, but it just changed my relationship to it. I was like, oh, I don't actually need this. And I feel healthier without it.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Right.

[Mark Marin]

And. Yeah. And I, like, don't need it.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

It does work.

[Mark Marin]

It works. You know, and then I still have it. You know, I'll still have a drink, but, like, I'll have. I'll have one.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

You know, or on a big night.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

2.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

You've done so, like, so many of these moves. Like the. The movie you did with Lynn.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And your wife. Like, I felt you. I felt like you two were surrogates for her and her husband a bit.

[Mark Marin]

I know. I know she talked to you about this. I listened to it.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. That. That movie, I. You know, I was up there to be with her. They had this part. They hadn't cast it. She asked me if I would do it just because it was sort of, like, intimate.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And she was like, I kind of rather. I don't want to. If I don't have to do this with, like, a complete stranger. Day player.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

That they bring in here. Would you mind doing this with me?

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Touchy Feely's the movie.

[Mark Marin]

Touchy Feely. And I said, yeah, sure. I think Lyn was so cryptic in describing what it was that I kind of went off of my own idea with what it was, and I don't think it matched at all what it was or supposed to be. So there is something that's kind of mysterious and cryptic about it that I still don't necessarily entirely know that I understand it, but I picked up. I did pick up that it was deeply personal to her and that it was big and that it was important.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

You know.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

So I guess we did that.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Do you direct?

[Mark Marin]

I don't.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

You didn't? Never wanted to again.

[Mark Marin]

I thought I wanted to until I realized that it was mostly the part. All the parts that, like, I. I thought it was just like. Well, it's like being an actor, except you have more power. And then it's like, no, it's like all the other shit that I don't want to do.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

But it's so interesting when you. Like. Because when I work with directors or I'm on set. Because I kind of feel like I should direct a movie. But the sensitivity you have to. Have to make a decision about a scene that you just shot. I mean, like, I don't know if I have the patience. We like to. To be that, you know, intuitive.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

About when something is right. What take.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

But she had a real kind of desire for some authentic moments.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And I think that was like a real gift. I mean, she's a real actor's person.

[Mark Marin]

There's a. It's a real. It's not very often that you have somebody who, who has the vision to know what they're looking for.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Right, right, right.

[Mark Marin]

And have the sort of force of personality to steer it, to keep it moving towards that.

[Charlie]

Yes.

[Mark Marin]

But not be overbearing. There's a little bit of. Because if what you want is a really intimate thing to really happen, you also have to kind of have the humanity and have a safe enough container and. And people have to trust you enough.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

To go there to realize it.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. And she, like, she had that. Yeah, she was Jay Roach. I worked with Jay Roach. And I kind of, you know, I was picking his brain and he said something. He says, I always try to just, I'm the priest of the story. And Lynn was like, she was a consummate priestess of the story, except even more so because of the way she worked. I think she didn't necessarily know what the story was. The story was being born.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Right. So it's real collaboration.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And that doesn't happen often.

[Mark Marin]

No. And she didn't want to just collaborate with your talent. She wanted her soul. To collaborate with your soul.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Yes. Yeah. Mr. But like, but you've worked on, like, bigger, like the Band of Brothers. That must have been fucking nuts.

[Mark Marin]

It was crazy.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

You know, that must. I can't imagine those. The scope. I talked to Adrian Brody the other day about doing Thin Red Line, which is that. Is it Thin Red Line?

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

That he got cut out of. But like, he, he really said the experience was like being in, in combat in a way, because you're with these guys and you're. And they're shooting it for real.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And you got to live in it. Yeah, it was pretty good.

[Mark Marin]

It was. Yeah, it was immersive.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

I remember saying to Damian at one point, like, when I was a kid and I imagined being an actor, this is what I thought it was going to be like. I thought I was going to, like, become something and there's going to be 360 degrees of reality all around me.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And then you get. You become it. You know, you get a job as an actor and you realize, oh, no, I'm standing in on a cheap, flimsy set.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

That's like maybe six feet. You know, it goes two feet out.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Of frame, and you're surrounded by people.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. And you have to kind of pretend all that shit's there. Banner Brothers was one where you didn't have to. You didn't have to pretend anything was there because it was all. Everything was there except the bullets.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

That must have been, like, pretty thrilling.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, it was. It was amazing.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

So what's going on now? What are you doing?

[Mark Marin]

I don't even know.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Okay.

[Mark Marin]

Honestly, Ro and I wrote a pilot for a show, and we're like.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

For the two of you.

[Mark Marin]

It's for her. We wrote it for her. I would. I think, you know, I would stay on as a producer. Writer, but we're like baby writers.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Have you taken it out there?

[Mark Marin]

Not yet. We've. It's kind of gone to, like, friends and family first.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Because I think, you know, we have that kind of courtesy. We can. We can get some courtesy reads, that.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Sure. And you want them to be people you trust and, you know, with a little love there.

[Mark Marin]

With a little love.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

So you can take the note.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. And people you respect and you don't have to. And not, you know.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And then, like, we're figuring out what.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

We'Re gonna do for Netflix or something.

[Mark Marin]

Not even, like, who knows?

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

I don't even know how the business works anymore.

[Mark Marin]

Hey, I don't think anybody does. And I. And I know a lot of people are despondent about that. Like, we don't know how it works. I kind of feel like, oh, awesome. So you don't know either.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

That's amazing. But I just got here. I don't know anything. And all you. You know, everyone who's been doing it for 30 years, you're saying you don't know either, so. Great.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

We're on the same boat.

[Mark Marin]

We're all here together.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Well, it was great talking to you, man.

[Mark Marin]

Thank you, brother.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Thanks.

[Mark Marin]

Appreciate it.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Thanks for coming. I just said thanks for having me. Thanks for having me.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, anytime.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

There you go.

[Ron Livingston]

Solid guy. I enjoyed that. You can hear Rosemary DeWitt's episode. If you missed it, that's episode 1593 from last month. Hang out for a minute. Life is busy, people.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

And if you're like me, no matter how busy you get, you've got to.

[Ron Livingston]

Get your fitness in. Peloton has a variety of challenging classes and programs that fit into your schedule. Whether you're a new parent or traveling for the holiday or training for something.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Big or just busy like everyone else.

[Ron Livingston]

From four week strength building classes to running, cycling and everything in between, Peloton can adapt to any goal and need during your busiest times. Find your push. Find your power with [e-mail] Folks, if listening to Ron has you thinking about Office Space, you can go listen to my episode with Office Space director Mike Judge right now.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Like, I imagine that doing, you know, King of the Hill and conceiving of King of the Hill and having these, you know, characters with emotional depth was sort of the next evolution of you as a, as a guy who moving, moving towards film and moving towards, you know, sort of exploring, you know, like responsible adult themes and that kind of stuff.

[Mike Judge]

I remember thinking, well, it was very daunting. But then I thought, you know what, I'm just going to pitch a show that I want to do. If it's not what they want to do, they'll say no. And that's that.

[Charlie]

And.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Right.

[Mike Judge]

And I, I sort of kept thinking they were going to say no. It's like just these, like the first drawing I had was four guys with their beers and then the family and kind of based on the neighborhood I lived in outside of Dallas and. But it just kept. And actually in Albuquerque too, I lived in a. I had four different Fort Worth people from Fort Worth living in my neighbor and I had a paper.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Route for that was Texans are their own thing.

[Mike Judge]

Yeah, they, they seem to find each other in Albuquerque too. And my neighborhood was, they were all, all around. I mean, the last neighborhood, we lived all over the place there.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

But so it was uniquely Texan in, in that way. It was really based on Texans kind of an.

[Mike Judge]

I think it's sort of the way, you know, you'll hear Canadian comedy people, a lot of them will say, you know, you're right next to the United States. You can kind of observe it as an outsider.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Right.

[Mike Judge]

I kind of feel that way being in New Mexico growing up there. And Texans, you know, they flood our campgrounds every three day weekend. And my dad would just, he, you know, he grew up in Montana and Wyoming, just wide open spaces and he, he just hated crowds. And, and when there was these, you know, big three day weekends and just Texas license plates, he would just like be muttering just God damn Texans everywhere.

[Ron Livingston]

And that's episode 568 and it's available for free on all podcast platforms. If you want to get every episode of WTF ad free, go to the link in the episode description or go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF Plus. On Thursday, we've got a special Ask Mark Anything episode for everyone to hear. This is a special feature of the full Marin feed, but we'll give you a solid collection of your questions and my answers for the first episode of the new year. And a reminder before we go this podcast is hosted by acast. Here's some rudimentary but honest Slide Blues.

[Rosemarie DeWitt]

Boomer Lives Smucking La Fonda Cat angels everywhere.