Episode 1615 - Demi Moore

Summary

WTF with Marc Maron Podcast: Episode 1615 - Demi Moore

Release Date: February 6, 2025

In Episode 1615 of the WTF with Marc Maron podcast, host Marc Maron engages in a deep and revealing conversation with acclaimed actress Demi Moore. The discussion traverses Demi's illustrious career, personal struggles, and profound insights into self-acceptance and empowerment. This summary encapsulates the key points, memorable quotes, and significant moments from their candid dialogue.

---

1. Introduction to Demi Moore's Journey

Marc Maron opens the conversation by expressing his admiration for Demi Moore's work, particularly highlighting her performance in the film The Substance. He reflects on her versatility and the depth she brings to her roles.

Notable Quote:

"She's a great fucking actress. What an interesting person, what a charismatic being." (04:55)

2. Early Life and Upbringing

Demi delves into her upbringing, sharing experiences of moving frequently due to her father's career in the newspaper business. This nomadic lifestyle led her to live in various states, including New Mexico, Pennsylvania, and eventually settling in Los Angeles. She discusses the challenges of having young parents who struggled with mental health issues and the impact this had on her development.

Notable Quote:

"I think we made the decision to make our primary residence in Idaho out of LA. And that's where we essentially raised them." (17:14)

3. Struggles with Family and Personal Identity

The conversation shifts to Demi’s complex relationship with her parents, particularly her mother's undiagnosed bipolar disorder. She opens up about feeling like she had to parent her parents at a young age, leading to a sense of autonomy but also emotional burden.

Notable Quote:

"Either you're gonna break down and be a victim, or you're gonna be like, you know, fuck it." (28:10)

4. Entering the Acting World

Demi recounts her entry into the acting industry, driven by admiration for a fellow actress, Nastassya Kinsky. At just 15, after undergoing eye surgery to improve her vision, she began auditioning and securing roles without formal training, navigating the complexities of Hollywood largely on her own.

Notable Quote:

"So I decided, what do I want to do? I want to try to do this. I had no idea what it was." (49:39)

5. Navigating Fame and Substance Abuse

Discussing her rise to fame, Demi talks about the pressures that came with success, including the scrutiny of her personal life and battles with substance abuse. She highlights a pivotal moment during the filming of St. Elmo's Fire, where she was coerced into attending an alcohol rehabilitation center, which inadvertently triggered her commitment to sobriety.

Notable Quote:

"It was Joel who stuck his neck out, the studio stuck their neck out, the producers stuck their neck out. And I wasn't anybody... And it was a miracle." (60:18)

6. Empowerment and Equal Pay

Demi shares her experiences advocating for equal pay in Hollywood, emphasizing her pursuit of fairness over competition. She reflects on how taking a stand not only benefited her but also paved the way for other women in the industry.

Notable Quote:

"I was really just asking for what I felt was earned. Not trying to equal a man, I was in competition with being fair." (66:29)

7. Reflections on The Substance and Personal Growth

The discussion returns to Demi's role in The Substance, where she explores themes of vanity, aging, and the struggles of women in show business. She connects her performance to her personal journey of grief, especially dealing with her father's suicide, and how it fueled her ability to portray vulnerability on screen.

Notable Quote:

"The pursuit of that answer is not external; it’s the liberation within." (74:19)

8. Embracing Self-Acceptance and Spirituality

Demi speaks about her path to self-acceptance, influenced by her studies in spiritual psychology. She underscores the importance of forgiveness and embracing one's shadow side as essential steps toward genuine self-love and inner peace.

Notable Quote:

"Forgiveness of self leads to acceptance of self. And as you accept, you really open the pathway of really loving and appreciating." (74:55)

9. Handling Grief and Vulnerability

Marc and Demi delve into the impact of grief on her life and work. Demi discusses how portraying characters dealing with loss has been both a therapeutic and challenging experience, allowing her to process her own emotions through her art.

Notable Quote:

"Ghost is all about loss. It became a shift because it really pushed me deeply out of my comfort zone." (62:06)

10. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the conversation wraps up, Demi reflects on her journey of continual self-improvement and the importance of remaining grounded despite the chaos of fame. She emphasizes the significance of being of service to something greater and finding purpose beyond personal achievements.

Notable Quote:

"Everything in its right time. Maybe the universe was saying to me, it's time to shift gears, try something else." (71:14)

---

Key Takeaways

• Resilience: Demi Moore’s ability to navigate personal trauma and the pressures of Hollywood showcases her resilience and strength.

• Advocacy for Fairness: Her stance on equal pay highlights the ongoing struggle for gender parity in the entertainment industry.

• Self-Acceptance: Demi emphasizes the journey towards self-acceptance and the role of spirituality in healing and personal growth.

• Art as Therapy: Portraying complex characters has been instrumental for Demi in processing her own grief and vulnerabilities.

Memorable Quotes

• "Find your push, Find your power with Peloton." (00:01) - [Note: Advertisement; typically skipped in summary]

• "The Substance is still playing in theaters." (13:15)

• "Everything in its right time. Maybe the universe was saying to me, it's time to shift gears, try something else." (71:14)

---

This episode offers a profound look into Demi Moore’s life, both on and off the screen. Her candidness about personal struggles, coupled with her advocacy for fairness and self-acceptance, provides listeners with valuable insights into the life of one of Hollywood’s enduring stars.

Transcript

[Marc Maron]

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[Demi Moore]

All right, let's do this.

[Marc Maron]

How are you? What the. What the Buddies? What the nicks? What's happening? I'm Mark Marin. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. How's everybody doing? How are you holding up?

[Demi Moore]

Are you. Are you.

[Marc Maron]

Are you wringing your hands? Are you flipping through your phone constantly? Are you exacerbating your dread, despair and hopelessness every two minutes by clicking on your news feed? Are you still thinking that this is gonna pass or that this is a temporary thing?

[Demi Moore]

What are you doing?

[Marc Maron]

Are you eating more? Are you exercising more? Are you laying in your bed just wondering what the point of it all is? What's. Where are you at with it? Are you just kind of blindly going through your day like nothing's going on? Hey, you know, don't knock full scale denial in times of trauma and crisis.

[Demi Moore]

You know what I mean?

[Marc Maron]

There'll be time to peel that shit back later. Right? I don't. Again, I don't know how long I'm going to open these shows like this, but at some point you're going to have to accept the authoritarian dread that is going to be the foundation of our national culture. And that's just. That's where we're at. I guess. People can do it in other countries. They have to.

[Demi Moore]

It happens. It's part of people's lives all over the world.

[Marc Maron]

Hungary. There you go. Check in with your pals in Hungary and see how they dealt with it. Reach out to the Hungarians and ask them, what were the first few months like for you before you realize that there's no more democracy? And whatever they're calling it is not that. And it's kind of a completely rigged system by a bunch of unfuckable hate nerds and grifters and cyber fucking weirdos?

[Unknown]

Huh?

[Marc Maron]

Techno.

[Demi Moore]

But yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So I don't Know, you know, I'm not feeling great, but I am trying to integrate and accept the authoritarian foundation that's unfolding. And you try to do what you can in your life. Get out there. Get out there with the people. Come on, get out there. Talk to others, make little groups. Figure out what you can do in your neighborhood. But get off your fucking phone. Quit texting people. Try to get some face time with some human beings. Check in on what it feels like to be part of an actual community outside of your family or your bed or your cats. Protest, protest, protest. Rise up. Get out there. Even if you feel like it's futile, the exercise of it is something that you need to do.

[Demi Moore]

I mean, you kind of got to do it. I mean, it's sort of one of.

[Marc Maron]

The necessary components of being a free people. I'd like to believe that we're still a free people. It's a bit of dread, but I'd like to believe we're still a free people. But you can go to indivisible.org I think they've got a way you can search for protests, town meetings, other civic action. I'm going to get out there. I'm going to get out there. I do my own singular protests here.

[Demi Moore]

And on stage, but I want to.

[Marc Maron]

Be with the people, feeling the people's presence, the weight and thrust and fucking energy of an angry community event. All right, you can do that. You should do that. I should do it. So look, today on the show, Demi Moore is here. And who doesn't love Demi Moore? What a great fucking actress. What an interesting person, what a charismatic being. Her performance in the film the Substance won her a Golden Globe and a few critics awards. She's nominated for the SAG Award, the BAFTA Award, and the Oscar for Best Actress. About fucking time. Am I right? Did you see that movie? I didn't even know when I went.

[Demi Moore]

To see that movie.

[Marc Maron]

I had no idea what it was about. I knew it was weird. I knew it was sort of a sci fi horror ish. Not really my bag necessarily, but I was kind of fascinated with the whole concept. I'm big Demi Moore fan and man, I went and saw that movie and I was like, this is a fucking masterpiece. What did I just watch? And I'm not a horror guy, but I mean, do you remember the first time you saw the Fly? Do you remember the first time you saw Cronenberg's Fly? I mean, that is sort of, if not a life changing moment, sort of a brain breaker. I mean, that thing was spectacular. And it just seems like the director of the substance, Coralie Farjeet. I don't know if I'm pronouncing her name right, but I'll tell you one thing, her vision was tight. All her homages, all her sources were present. Cronenberg, Kubrick, David Lynch. But she didn't just. It wasn't an appropriation thing. She had integrated their visions into her own and made this spectacular, poignant, cutting movie that is just grotesque as fuck. And, man, you watch that movie, you don't even know. You sit through two acts of that movie and you're like, what could they possibly do for a third act of whatever we're sitting through right now?

[Demi Moore]

And then it happens and you're like.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, my God, they fucking did it. They did it. And you just watch in horror and excitement and just pure entertainment, but also big fucking message film in a lot of ways, about vanity, about aging, about, you know, women in the workplace in this particular context, specifically, show business. Dennis Quaid does a thing that is pretty great in this movie, and Margaret Qualley is. She's like a star, man. But I. I profoundly like the movie. I profoundly liked the movie. Look, I'm in Iowa City at the Engler theater on Thursday, February 13th. Des Moines, Iowa, at the Hoyt Sherman place on Friday, February 14. Kansas City, Missouri, at the Midland Theater on Saturday, February 15. Asheville, North Carolina, at the Orange Peel on Thursday, February 20. Nashville, Tennessee, at the James K. Polk Theater on Friday, February 21. Louisville, Kentucky, at the Bombheart Theater on Saturday, February 22. And Lexington, Kentucky, at the Lexington Opera house on Sunday, February 23rd. Then I'm coming to Oklahoma, Texas, South Carolina, Illinois and Michigan, Toronto, Vermont, New Hampshire and New York City for my special taping. You can go to wtfpod.com tour for all my dates and links to tickets. Vermont, sold out. And I think Skokie might be sold out. But other than that, go for it. It's so funny, man. You know, Adam Ray does a very strange circus like, variety show, I guess.

[Demi Moore]

You could call it, where he plays Dr. Phil. It's a Dr. Phil live show. It's very popular.

[Marc Maron]

And he's a very funny guy and I like him. He's a good guy. And he asked me months ago to be on this Dr. Phil Live business. And I haven't been guesting on hardly anything. It's been a long time since I did a talk show.

[Demi Moore]

It's been a long time since I've.

[Marc Maron]

Been on a podcast of someone else's. I just Feel like I'm sort of.

[Demi Moore]

Out of the loop of that.

[Marc Maron]

And it doesn't. It doesn't feel necessarily that important to me, but it was one of those things where I'm kind of driven by, like, hey, well, these guys are doing it. Why am I not doing it? Why. Why is he not asking me to do it? And I think it's that attitude that, you know, that slight tone that, you know, it's got nothing to do with anything.

[Demi Moore]

But.

[Marc Maron]

But last night I did it, and I was nervous. It's so fucked up. I've been doing this goddamn job in every capacity possible since I was 22 years old. And this is just a live show where, you know, he's playing Dr. Phil, and I just got to sit up there and riff with him, but I'm like, oh, my God, what is this? Am I going to be funny? How come? Oh, God, what am I fucking doing? And. And it was a good time, but was.

[Demi Moore]

What was really great, though, for me is sometimes the Comedy Store, you don't.

[Marc Maron]

Know, you know, who's going to be there.

[Demi Moore]

And Johnny Knoxville was on the show.

[Marc Maron]

He made a contraption that it was funny because I didn't even know what it was.

[Demi Moore]

I'm like. So he.

[Marc Maron]

On the show, he goes, well, I made a contraption. And I'm like, this is going to hurt someone's balls. There are balls involved.

[Unknown]

And.

[Demi Moore]

And he laughed, and he's like, yeah, it was actually some sort of contraption.

[Marc Maron]

That obviously, you know, punches you in the balls. I mean, what. Johnny Knoxville's, you know, famously known for getting into situations where your balls are going to get punched somehow with something. But either way, that's a sweet guy. That's a funny guy.

[Demi Moore]

And really, you know, I don't know.

[Marc Maron]

About you, but, you know, I gotta watch Jackass at least. At least twice a year. But I gotta pace it out, because you want to stay funny. Even if you know it's coming, you want it to stay funny. You gotta find those funny things, man. I watched the other guys the other night, and with Will Ferrell and Mark Wahlberg, that's a funny fucking movie. And now I'm like, I can't watch out for like a year.

[Demi Moore]

You got.

[Marc Maron]

You gotta pace them. So few things are really hilarious. And, you know, if you get locked in your phone and you're just watching bits and pieces, just remember you're destroying your mind.

[Demi Moore]

Watch something that has follow through.

[Marc Maron]

Watch something that has an arc that's.

[Demi Moore]

More than 30 seconds or a minute long.

[Marc Maron]

Don't Just like, don't let them use you with that fucking technology where you're just punching yourself in the brain for dopamine hit or little sadness, a little joy. Don't do it. Get out there. Get face to face with some people talk, you know, it doesn't. You have to pay attention the whole time, but just get back in the groove of talking to other people in an engaged way. Thank God it's what I do for a living. So, folks, look, home security is important for everyone. I have home security because I want my place to be safe whether I'm home or not. And we've recommended Simplisafe for almost a decade as home security you can trust. During that time, Simplisafe has only gotten better. And right now, the Simplisafe system is the best it's ever been. Thanks to Simplisafe Active guard outdoor protection, which prevents crime before it even happens. Stop break ins, package theft and vandalism with live monitoring agents who can see, speak to and deter suspicious individuals outside your home before they can do anything. A. Hey, put that box down. Put it down. Do it. Hey, hey, hey. Give me that crowbar. Put it down right now. WTF listeners can get the same peace of mind we get by using Simplisafe and we wanted to make sure you can get the best deal possible. WTF listeners get 50% off a new SimpliSafe system with professional monitoring. And the first month is free. Go to SimpliSafe.com WTF that's SimpliSafe.com WTF for 50% off and the first month is free. There's no safe like simply save. Oh, my God. Demi Moore.

[Demi Moore]

Are you kidding me?

[Marc Maron]

What a joy. When's the last time you watched Ghost or GI Jane? So many movies and you forget, you know, just how long she's been doing this and how. A few good men. Always good. Always singular. Also, again, go see the substance. Just do it. Put yourself through it. It's worth it. That should be a saying. Just do it. Put yourself through it. It's worth it, huh?

[Demi Moore]

Can we.

[Marc Maron]

T shirts. T shirts. All right, look, this is me and Demi Moore.

[Demi Moore]

The Substance is still playing in theaters.

[Marc Maron]

I would go see it in a theater. It's also available to buy or rent digitally and it's also streaming on mubi. Demi is nominated for Best Actress at.

[Demi Moore]

This year's Academy Awards. Very exciting.

[Marc Maron]

And it was a real.

[Demi Moore]

A real treat for me to talk to her.

[Marc Maron]

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[Unknown]

I'm a little bit more horse than I normally am because.

Why?

I just had like so much stuff. I think respiratory, really. I just think I picked a little something up and then I traveled. I went to Europe.

[Demi Moore]

You just got back from Europe?

[Unknown]

Yeah. And then I go back Tuesday, Monday.

[Demi Moore]

It's a very exciting time.

[Unknown]

Hey. God. All right. I may pull my contact out and be in glasses. That's more my norm.

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

Do whatever you got to do here.

[Unknown]

I'll do like. These are like. I'll put all the props. Her water bottle.

[Demi Moore]

What is that?

[Unknown]

Oh, the.

[Demi Moore]

The doggy.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Demi Moore]

I saw that dog on Graham Norton. She is real star.

[Unknown]

She is a superstar.

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

Do you want to wear headphones?

[Unknown]

Yeah, I can do that.

Yeah.

Tell me how we do this is professional.

[Demi Moore]

Well, it's. Yeah, it's, you know, it's not.

[Unknown]

I mean, you've had some.

[Demi Moore]

Not that complicated.

[Unknown]

You've had some big wigs here.

Yeah.

I'm feeling very honored.

[Demi Moore]

Yeah, I've had some bigwigs. Some of your peers, I imagine people, you know.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Demi Moore]

Movie stars and whatnot have come here.

[Marc Maron]

Exes, all of them, they've all been here.

[Unknown]

Okay. I love it.

[Marc Maron]

Actually.

[Demi Moore]

I met Scout. Did you know that?

[Unknown]

Yeah. She said you guys met. I don't remember now. Oh, was it at a comedy show?

[Demi Moore]

Yeah, she saw me at a comedy show and I was talking about my dad with dementia and she said, hey, you know my dad, you know, and so we talked and we had lunch once and talked about dads with that.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

It was helpful.

[Unknown]

She's a great human.

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

Good singer, too.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

And does the whole thing. You got good kids.

[Unknown]

I do have good kids.

[Demi Moore]

They're all good.

[Unknown]

They are really good. They're, you know, they're good people.

Yeah.

Which is. Which is nice to be able to say that, reflect that as a truth.

[Demi Moore]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

They're good humans.

[Demi Moore]

And does that surprise you? No, but, you know, you never know with the kids.

[Unknown]

No, I think I made probably. Well, I wanna say we made. Cause we did make the decision, Bruce and I together. Probably the smartest thing we ever did was decide to make our primary residence in Idaho out of la. And that's where we essentially raised them.

[Demi Moore]

Really?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

And that was just. You just decided to take a break.

[Marc Maron]

And go to Idaho?

[Unknown]

No. You know, Bruce liked to ski. I had never been there. Had actually didn't know anything about the state and. Sorry. That's Pilaf, the little mouse. And the first time I went, my oldest daughter was 12 days old. Wow. And so it was kind of looked at as more like, this is a getaway in the mountains kind of thing. And then when she started kindergarten and we were here, but a lot of work was on. Hey, you can't be, like, doing that during this. Buddy was A lot was on location, right?

[Demi Moore]

Sun Valley.

[Unknown]

Yeah. And so I thought I grew up where you went to the school closest to your house. And LA was a whole overwhelming, perhaps even a little bit intimidating for me as a young mother. And. And I just thought, what are we doing when we could be in this small town, in a very different experience for them, away from this big world that they're gonna already get so much of?

[Demi Moore]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And so we just made that decision to make the primary residence.

[Demi Moore]

So you had all of them up there?

[Unknown]

Yeah, two were born there.

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

And you stayed there for years.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I still. I mean, I.

[Demi Moore]

You live there.

[Unknown]

Yeah, still half the time.

[Demi Moore]

But you have the place here, too.

[Unknown]

I do, but, you know, and I love la. I do love la. You know, my kids are here. There's a lot of wonderful things. But I like. I live here, but I don't know if I'm living.

Yeah, I get it.

It's anchored. It's an anchored place. I've been here for a long time.

[Demi Moore]

So you can just come here, just hop right in and then leave.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Yeah. I guess that is how it sometimes rolls.

[Demi Moore]

But what is your relationship with New Mexico?

[Marc Maron]

Because I grew up there.

[Unknown]

Oh, you did?

[Demi Moore]

In Albuquerque.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

But were you born there?

[Demi Moore]

Born in Jersey, but like third grade through high school.

[Unknown]

Oh wow.

[Demi Moore]

Yeah, my dad's still there. I mean, you know, I'm New Mexican.

[Unknown]

You are?

[Demi Moore]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

So I was born obviously in Roswell.

[Demi Moore]

Isn't that crazy?

[Marc Maron]

Roswell.

[Unknown]

I know.

[Demi Moore]

Why were you born in Roswell?

[Unknown]

I think the combination of. I mean it's obviously it's where my parents met and.

[Demi Moore]

But were they involved in the military or something?

[Unknown]

So my dad's dad was in the army there and they had a substantial base at one point. And my mom's family had slowly kind of moved there, you know, from generations, generations before.

[Demi Moore]

Where are they from originally? Southwest.

[Unknown]

I mean. Yeah. I think it's crazy. We have, you know, some combination of some native American indigenous from where up? Like, like Cherokee. That's kind of. So I'm assuming perhaps they came through Oklahoma.

[Demi Moore]

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.

[Unknown]

And then so there's kind of spread of family in Texas, then into New Mexico. So I don't know exactly how my grandparents.

[Demi Moore]

Well, real cowboy shit.

[Unknown]

Yeah. So that somehow I was born in.

[Demi Moore]

The town of aliens area 51.

[Unknown]

So crazy. Nobody ever spoke about that, by the way.

[Marc Maron]

Well, maybe that's cause your dad knew something.

[Unknown]

I think everybody knew something and nobody was saying anything. What they knew is still a mystery. But they actually have kind of now come out with. They used to have kind of a joke kind of museum, but now they actually have something substantial that really documents a lot of kind of the government influence in keeping the radio shut down. People not sharing their stories. There was a lot more involvement. So you know, there's also one of the largest landing strips out in that area. So a lot of aircraft, a lot of do a lot of test landings. So who knows?

[Demi Moore]

I don't know. Where do you come down on it? You open minded about it?

[Unknown]

Totally. Why? Why not that?

[Demi Moore]

What do you got to lose?

[Unknown]

Exactly.

[Demi Moore]

Did you ever go over to White Sands?

[Unknown]

As a kid, but I haven't been as an adult.

[Demi Moore]

You remember it though, right?

[Unknown]

Of course. How can you forget White Sands and Carlsbad Caverns?

[Marc Maron]

I know, crazy.

[Unknown]

And so did you know the bottomless lakes are connected to Carlsbad Caverns? No, I only know that as somebody who kind of does enjoy a fair amount of true crime that they found bodies that have drowned.

[Demi Moore]

Where's the bottomless lakes?

[Unknown]

That's like out towards Roswell, but out.

[Demi Moore]

Oh, so all the way called the bottom.

[Unknown]

And that they've then found bodies in Carlsbad? Yes.

[Marc Maron]

That's crazy.

[Unknown]

That's what I've heard.

[Marc Maron]

I went there as an adult to Carlsbad.

[Demi Moore]

I was on a class trip to go down there. Once I got sent home.

[Unknown]

Why?

[Demi Moore]

Because I got caught in the bathroom with a girl. It was terrible. I had to take the bus by myself the whole way home.

[Unknown]

As an adult?

[Marc Maron]

No.

[Demi Moore]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

This just happened to me.

[Demi Moore]

It's crazy.

[Marc Maron]

It was like two months ago.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

I was there the whole time. And they finally sent me home. No, it was a class trip.

[Marc Maron]

And we were supposed to go overnight.

[Demi Moore]

To Carlsbad and White Sands. And we were all just going crazy. And I was making out with a girl.

[Marc Maron]

It was in high school.

[Demi Moore]

What are you gonna do? They sent me home. Some guy ratted me out.

[Unknown]

Oh, snitch, Snitch.

[Demi Moore]

I snitched. Totally.

[Unknown]

Do you know the funniest thing? And it's such a imprinted memory. We did a lot of driving. Cause I moved a lot as a kid. But in New Mexico, when it says the last gas station for 100 miles, you better listen to it because you drive and there is nothing.

[Demi Moore]

Just looking at that gauge, there is nothing. So what happened? You moved from there to where?

[Unknown]

So we moved to California. Moved around to a few different places in California.

But.

[Demi Moore]

Wait, so this is the whole family?

[Unknown]

This is my immediate family. Just my mom, dad, brother.

[Demi Moore]

But not your original dad?

[Unknown]

Not my original dad.

[Demi Moore]

Right.

[Unknown]

But who I didn't ever even know or figure out until I was 14.

[Demi Moore]

Did you go find the other guy?

[Unknown]

I mean, the crazy story. I think I write about this in my memoir, which is, you know, I had an understanding, just being a very nosy, curious kid, that there was this, you know, young fireman that my mother became involved with when my dad went off to college. And the story, you know, that I bought for a long time was, you know, that they were together. Then my dad came back from college, and then she went with him and got pregnant with my dad with me, and then left Charlie. So then, you know, as these things, as, you know, they limit your full access to the story. So I didn't really. I knew that she had married this guy Charlie, but I didn't really know. And one day, this is when my. My parents, who my adopted father and biological mother had divorced same people, second time. And we were driving to see my.

[Demi Moore]

Dad after they got divorced a second time.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Demi Moore]

And married to each other twice.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Demi Moore]

Good. Exciting.

[Unknown]

And so we had a friend in the car, and I was telling the story that I knew, you know, that she had been married, but then she left and Blah, blah, blah. And I turned to my mother and. And I said, is he my real dad?

Yeah.

And I don't even know why it came out of my mouth. And I just. As soon as I said it, I knew I already knew the answer. And she said, who told you that? And then I knew. So from that moment to five days later, when I went to have a trip to visit my mom's youngest sister, I went from not having this information to the man who was my biological father showing up.

[Demi Moore]

Oh, my God.

[Unknown]

To me.

[Demi Moore]

How old were you?

[Unknown]

14, right? Yeah, 14, almost.

[Demi Moore]

Was that crazy? Do you remember the feeling?

[Unknown]

I think it was. I think the emotions were of so many things. Betrayal.

Yeah.

Feeling like everybody but my brother. And I knew.

Yeah.

Questioning everything that I thought I knew about who I am.

[Demi Moore]

The truth.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

Like who? Things where I've said, oh, I'm so like my dad.

[Demi Moore]

Right. Oh, right.

[Unknown]

But. But am I like my dad? And in many ways I was like my dad.

[Demi Moore]

Like your.

[Unknown]

Like things that we were interested in.

[Demi Moore]

Yeah, of course.

[Unknown]

But my. And my. And my dad had adopted me. He was in the room when I was born, so I never knew anybody else.

[Demi Moore]

Right, right.

[Unknown]

And so there were so many mixed emotions. But to have a relative stranger show up who you are now, a little stranger connected to wild was. I think at that time there was no one really focused on what my experience was. And so I think I felt like my job was just to handle it.

[Demi Moore]

Right.

[Unknown]

Just handle it. I did.

[Demi Moore]

And did you ever have a relationship with that guy?

[Unknown]

I saw him one other time.

[Demi Moore]

Wow.

[Unknown]

And yeah, it was.

[Demi Moore]

Oh, my God.

[Unknown]

But I met the. These grandparents who were lovely people that I also ended up never seeing again. But the most bizarre thing is when there's genetic DNA, the physical, you know, and you see someone that you have similarities. So speaking about my eye.

Yeah.

My whole life up to that point, I thought my dad, who had an eye problem, that's where I got mine.

[Demi Moore]

Sure. Not the case.

[Unknown]

Well, it was from my dad, but it was from the biological father.

[Demi Moore]

He had that too.

[Unknown]

It was different, but it. What? But it was like the one of those weird kind of. How do you make sense when you're a kid that you think who you feel is grown up? Because obviously if you've done a little bit of research, you know that mine was not the most kind of typical upbringing.

[Demi Moore]

I wouldn't say it felt stable. Definitely I've done a little bit of research, but. But when you do that kind of research, you're like, holy shit, how'd she get out of this with any sense of self?

[Unknown]

Yeah. On one hand, it's kind of miraculous.

Yeah.

And the other, you know, I. I'm just. I feel like, grateful for kind of an innate sense of not needing a. To be a victim or to find fault or blame as any excuse.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I mean, like, it's odd when you. When you have parents who are emotionally.

[Demi Moore]

Irresponsible, to say the least. And I, you know, I don't know exactly what that situation was, but you do.

[Marc Maron]

Some part of you steps in to parent you. Probably not great.

[Demi Moore]

But if you've got that instinct that, you know, your self, like self preservation enough to not.

[Marc Maron]

To not. Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

I mean, either you're gonna go one way or the other, instinctively, either you're gonna break down and be a victim, or you're gonna be like, you know, fuck it.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

Yeah. I think that I, you know, being one might, you know, it's like. And particularly from where I sit today, I look at how young my parents were.

[Demi Moore]

Yeah, right.

[Unknown]

They were so young.

[Demi Moore]

How young were your parents?

[Unknown]

18 and 19.

[Demi Moore]

That's crazy.

[Unknown]

Like, it's so, so young. And so I was thinking about, can you imagine, like, the kind of the. They were growing up as I was becoming a teenager, so it was almost more like looking at me as a peer or an equal. Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

How could they have had the wherewithal to be nurturing or, you know, kind of give you your space properly or any of that?

[Unknown]

I don't think that. I think they were trying to work through their own things with not the kind of tools, language, support that exists today.

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Cause they were, like, running around the Southwest.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

I mean, you know, and there was alcoholism too.

[Unknown]

Yeah, definitely both, you know, drugs, alcohol and mental illness.

[Demi Moore]

Big three.

[Unknown]

Yeah. But, you know, like, I think about. I, you know, my parents were maybe at this point 23 when I was diagnosed with an incurable kidney disease. And thinking of. And I so remember 23, like, reassuring them like, it's okay.

[Demi Moore]

You did that.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

Because you had to be the parent. You had to be together.

[Unknown]

I mean, I just think. I felt. And again, sometimes I think, isn't it maybe it's just something we come in with?

[Demi Moore]

Were you the oldest?

[Unknown]

I'm the oldest, definitely. Don't I seem like an oldest?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, well, me too.

[Demi Moore]

Because, like, there was a point where my parents, who. My mom was 22 when she had me, but they always seemed to think that I had a handle on shit.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I don't know why that happened, but.

[Unknown]

Sometimes I think that's because in some way we do, even though we don't.

[Demi Moore]

Right.

[Unknown]

Like, I don't in, like, I feel like I am the most autonomous I've ever been in my entire life right now, where I've not weighted with responsibility of others, that I was a parent for my parents in many respects and then was a young parent.

[Demi Moore]

Right. And then now everyone's gone or away out of the house anyways, so you can just do what you do.

[Unknown]

Yeah. It's an interesting time to be just sitting in myself and experiencing life without my first priority being caretaking someone else.

[Demi Moore]

Right.

[Unknown]

So it's kind of amazing.

[Demi Moore]

It's a relief.

[Unknown]

It's just.

[Demi Moore]

Does it feel like you're a phantom limb? Are you craving caretaking?

[Unknown]

No. I went through that maybe at an earlier, like, you know, stage of, like, well, what do I do with myself?

[Demi Moore]

Right.

[Unknown]

And where now it's, wow, this is kind of exciting to be much more comfortable in my own skin.

Yeah.

Just there's a certain liberation I feel.

[Demi Moore]

Yeah, I would think so.

[Unknown]

That's so nice. And not that any of the other was bad. It's just different. Sure. But you know what I mean, it's like just a different time.

[Demi Moore]

Well, you have to frame it like that after a point of time. I mean, you have to, like, you know, you have to, at some point get into a zone where you're like, you know, you can't regret the past, that there's a certain type of acceptance that has to happen and you can't resent yourself. But I have to assume that was hard earned.

[Unknown]

I think, of course, there's a lot of work I've put into the reframing. But at the same time, there was also a part that already held a certain perspective, even with, you know, challenging times with my mother when my children were small.

Yeah.

Having an ability to have a level of compassion for her.

Yeah.

And that which only has grown over time to a greater degree.

[Demi Moore]

But what happens when you go. So how'd you end up in Los Angeles?

[Unknown]

Okay. So, you know, I was roughly just on average, never in less than two schools a year. I think there was a lot of geographics taking classes on their part.

[Marc Maron]

Yes.

[Demi Moore]

What was.

[Unknown]

My dad was in the newspaper business.

[Demi Moore]

Interesting.

[Unknown]

And he did, you know, advertising layout. But, like, the old school where they was like, cut paste.

[Demi Moore]

Oh, yeah, sure. Had a whiteboard.

[Unknown]

You know, it's like, with, like, the text and all of it.

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

Real craft.

[Unknown]

And he was quite good at it. And he worked for. For Scripps, Howard Scripps League. Sure. I can't remember which one is which. But anyway, they own newspapers all over, so we had opportunities where he would get promoted. Move and promoted, or keeping ahead of that, who knows? But I learned. Just know that I learned how to load a U haul like nobody's business.

[Demi Moore]

And you did have siblings?

[Unknown]

I have one younger brother. Okay, so you're both kind of scrambling around, but we. So, you know, I. We moved from New Mexico when I was five.

Yeah.

To California, which I can't remember. We did, like Ontario, Merced, that kind of thing. Then we ended up moving back to Roswell for a few years. Then we moved to Pennsylvania.

[Demi Moore]

Pennsylvania. That's a long one. You drove?

[Unknown]

We did. In that U haul.

[Demi Moore]

That's crazy.

[Unknown]

In that U haul.

[Demi Moore]

That's a long haul. Seeing the country. Back in the day, I was.

[Unknown]

My spot was in the floorboard.

Yeah.

You know, all the luxuries and a few different places in Pennsylvania.

[Demi Moore]

Do you think it was like, who was drinking? Your dad?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

So you think he was burning down the house and then having to leave town?

[Unknown]

I don't. Like, some of it I'm not quite sure about.

[Demi Moore]

My old man was like that. Not with booze. Got in trouble.

[Unknown]

What kind of trouble?

[Demi Moore]

Well, it started with like, he was a doctor. But, you know, I was older. You know, I wasn't a kid. But like, for years, he would sign up with a already existing practice in a small town for a year, contract to be an orthopedic surgeon. And then by the time he left, you know, he's bipolar. So his bipolarness would have arced and they wanted him out. That's what I think. So he was in like, Muscatine, Iowa. Warsaw, New York, Victoria, Texas. It's weird.

[Unknown]

So do you think or in your experience did his issue as with being bipolar, do you think that's something that developed later? Like, because you were saying you were older.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I was older. No, no, no.

[Demi Moore]

He was always, you know, erratic and like, I. I have a lot of the same kind. Like, I'm sober too. I'm sober, what, 25 years.

[Unknown]

Amazing.

[Demi Moore]

And he, you know. But you have the same symptoms. You know, my mom was like this. You always had these eating disorders and like, is. Both of them were kind of up. But not specifically drugs and alcohol.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

Just.

[Unknown]

Just other isms.

[Demi Moore]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, exactly.

[Unknown]

Just the dysfunction.

[Demi Moore]

So what you get is what you're talking about. You get you have to raise yourself somehow in a way, and you have to be there for them because they're just Needy people that don't know really how to love properly. So they kind of just. It's all like a kind of a manipulation. They panic and then they apologize.

[Unknown]

I mean, I think. But you know, look, I really know that they. That it wasn't all okay. The things that occurred. But what I know is that, that if they could have done it different, if they had, that they would have.

[Demi Moore]

I get that.

[Unknown]

I do, I do.

[Demi Moore]

I got to that point.

[Unknown]

But I was asking you about the bipolar. My mother also was bipolar, but hers was undiagnosed until actually quite late in her life.

[Marc Maron]

That's probably why she drank.

[Unknown]

Of course all the self medicating was trying to take it down. But I think it also evolved from undealt with trauma in her own life.

[Demi Moore]

The bipolar.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I do.

[Demi Moore]

That's interesting. That kind of stuff.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

You know, like what is really chemical and is that transferable as well? I mean, like it seems as trauma research kind of gets more in depth that it makes sense. Because your brain's always adapting. So why wouldn't it create that?

[Unknown]

Yeah. And if the power of what we believe. Like so when we make things up about being. In my mom's case was a deep sense of being unlovable.

Yeah.

And had, you know, a trauma that she never overcame. Oh my God. And it's so interesting how then she repeated patterns even in choosing this. Like they had an incredible love story. My parents. But it was also a love hate.

[Demi Moore]

Sure.

[Unknown]

And couldn't live with each other, couldn't live without each other. And it was one of those really twisted, manipulative. All the things that go with that.

[Demi Moore]

That comes from an inability to love or be loved. So it's all drama. Like, you know, like blow up, come back. You know that it manufactures some sense of connection.

[Unknown]

But it's not because there's no love. No central love of self.

[Marc Maron]

Yes.

[Unknown]

No central love of self.

[Demi Moore]

What are we gonna do about that? Or what am I gonna do about it?

[Unknown]

I can help you.

[Demi Moore]

So you've got a project now. You're just.

[Unknown]

I think though really like as I continue to grow and which I think is. I think really everything else we do is all the set dressing for us all as human beings to reach a place of true love and acceptance of self. I do. I think everything else is just what we're given. To be able to have the experiences, to find those reflections. Challenges.

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

Why do they have to be so awful?

[Unknown]

You know, I look at that also and I can look at like, would you be who you are? Would I be who I am if I had had it all cushy and nurturing? Would I have pushed to do the things that I've done?

Yeah.

I didn't know anything about acting. I didn't know anything about this industry. Like, I think that those are the things that make us who we are.

[Demi Moore]

No. Yeah. And I guess when you get to that point, the act of self acceptance is essentially who you are. Are there some things I would have.

[Marc Maron]

Liked to have been resolved earlier on?

[Unknown]

Yes. Shit. Yeah. Happily.

[Demi Moore]

Yeah, happily.

[Marc Maron]

It would have really taken a load off if I could have had the same life and been. I think.

[Demi Moore]

Well, I don't have any regrets and I do have a limited. Well, no, it's not limited. I accept myself. But I think if I had a little of this or a little of that, I probably would have been just as good, but maybe a little better in some ways if I could. Yes.

[Unknown]

But everything in its right time. I know, I know it sounds a little cliche, but it's so true.

[Demi Moore]

You have to look at it like that.

[Unknown]

There's things. Yes. Would I have liked to have felt more comfortable, more confident, more, you know, have a sense of trust in myself that. I mean. But not having that trust also has given me a deeper compassion to feel others in a way that I don't know if I would have. I would have.

[Demi Moore]

Right. That's interesting. So there's an idea that because of your needs or your lack of trust in yourself and your desire to connect with others, you develop a different type of empathy.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Because it's like finding that compassion. Because any pain or hurt or rejection, any of those things that come. I really do see, as you know, that there's a gift in it. And I in particular hold this perception that everything in life is happening for me, not to me. And that is a huge game changer. Everything's happening for me, not to me.

[Demi Moore]

That's interesting. It's a good way of phrasing. I tend to go with the shit happens model. Not necessarily to me or for me, but hey, life isn't easy for anybody.

[Unknown]

That's true. But think about it. If you just apply this language, when you look at something, you go, okay, I don't like it. It's not the way I want it. Let's just say something's happening. This feels really shitty. But if I can trust that this is happening for me, then I can step back and then also say, what is this trying to give me that I'm missing? And there is always something that it is trying to give you. It is trying to give you more of you than you had before. You opened up to that awareness.

[Demi Moore]

I like that.

[Unknown]

As opposed to it just being like, ah, shit happened through.

[Demi Moore]

Well, where'd you get that perspective, that little gem?

[Unknown]

I think again, there was a part of me that kind of had a leanings towards that. And then I did an incredible three year course with University of Santa Monica on spiritual psychology. And it was a. What year?

[Demi Moore]

When was that?

[Unknown]

So it was first year, was Pre pandemic, so 2020.

[Demi Moore]

Oh, so recently.

[Unknown]

Yeah, yeah.

But I had already been working with a mentor who was. Who had a master's in this. And the year I started, they opened it up to anybody who was interested in studying spiritual psychology.

[Demi Moore]

What is it like you're reading young.

[Unknown]

It's really more a practical application and exploring the idea that psychology had kind of become in the academic world very much just centered on the mind and it had lost kind of a connection to spiritual.

Yeah.

And so this was trying to bring back, I think, a more whole kind of perspective that they're not two isolated aspects.

[Demi Moore]

Right.

[Unknown]

You know, this idea that, you know, you know, with something's happening in our body, that there's usually a parallel of something that's going on on an emotional level, that it's not that. That, that it's not isolated.

[Demi Moore]

Well, do you, do you track trauma? Do you know where whatever parts of your life had caused you the bad habits or the, or the bad self image? Can you track those?

[Unknown]

Definitely. There are things like where I, you know, and I think again, part of the exploration in my book really was like an interesting kind of cathartic putting down on paper certain events with that essential question of, like, how did I get here? And really being able to see not just the traumas, but also the, you know, all the events and the interconnectedness of these events.

[Demi Moore]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Unknown]

And how that has led to this very moment right now to be able to be having this conversation. And so.

[Demi Moore]

So you've been, you've like, been a.

[Unknown]

Searcher literally since I was a kid.

Yeah, yeah.

I used to ask to go to different churches, like literally say to my parents, hey, do you mind? They're like, yeah, go ahead.

[Demi Moore]

When you were what, 10?

[Unknown]

Yeah, like I would say I had, like, I was just. I. And the crazy thing is, until I started kind of exploring spirituality and I'd been to a few different types of churches, you know, and I thought church was a place you went to be yelled at. And then it was only later That I was like, oh, my God. This is what. Like when you have, you know, a priest or a minister or, you know, they're advising you that it's supposed to be guidance. I didn't get that from you when you were younger. No. And I was asking to go to this Baptist, to this Methodist. I was baptized, you know, late in the game, you know, Catholic. But my parents weren't really. They were open, but they weren't really following anything. And I think there was something I was seeking. I was seeking something that I knew was there, but it probably some sort.

[Demi Moore]

Of like, undeniable stability, but also this.

[Unknown]

Connection with something that felt bigger that I just didn't know. I wasn't anchored in anything.

[Demi Moore]

I know my brother was like that, but I never really had that.

[Unknown]

I mean, I literally remember, like being like 12 and a girl in a new school went to, you know, a Greek Orthodox, and I was like, oh, wow, I'd really like to see what that is.

[Demi Moore]

Yeah, sure.

[Unknown]

Like, I really. I think. I don't think I had a clarity or an awareness of why I was seeking, you know, what it is? I think it was that I was seeking truth. What's truth?

Yeah.

And I think probably because I was born into a lie.

[Demi Moore]

Interesting.

[Unknown]

I was born into a lie. And so I was seeking truth, but I didn't even know why.

[Demi Moore]

Yeah, some kind of like, un. With truth.

[Unknown]

Yes. But I don't think it was. Again, not language. Not a sure, sure, you know.

[Demi Moore]

Yeah, I get it.

[Unknown]

But I think it definitely evolved for me.

[Demi Moore]

Well, if your whole childhood is a lie, you know, you're wired for that. What is. What is true? What is real? Right?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

So when did you get to Hollywood?

[Unknown]

So after we moved. Pennsylvania, Washington State. We moved from Washington state to. I actually had a pit stop back in New Mexico where I had some very grounding, amazing time with my grandmother.

[Demi Moore]

Thank God for grandparents, by the way.

[Unknown]

Miracle. So I then went from Washington state. We moved to Redondo Beach.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, that's nice.

[Unknown]

So we kind of moved, you know, youngish family to Redondo Beach. From Redondo Beach, Marina del Rey. And then parents divorced second time and my brother went with my dad and stayed in Redondo beach. And my mother and I moved to West Hollywood.

[Demi Moore]

Was she in show business?

[Unknown]

No, no, she worked for. In accounting at Electra Records for a short time. Like, I mean, yeah, like, it was not.

[Demi Moore]

No, but now you're in Hollywood.

[Unknown]

No, but I was in Hollywood but knew nothing of acting, knew nothing of the entertainment industry. But it was obviously around, but I was, you know. How old were you at this point? I think I was turning 14 or like right around there.

[Demi Moore]

So when do you start to know you've got something?

[Unknown]

I didn't think I had anything, but I didn't have anything to lose.

Yeah.

And we lived in this King's Road apartment and I remember Tim Hutton was living there with his single dad and they were just, I think, moving out as we were moving in. But the real impactful moment of this King's Road apartments, kind of a swinging singles ish type spot, was this incredibly stunning, breathtaking, self possessed young German actress that Roman Polanski had flown over who was also living there with her somewhat crazy single mother.

Yeah.

And she was just a tiny bit older than I was and we became friends. And this was Nastassya Kinsky.

Yeah.

And I mean, I remember so vividly looking out from our little apartment balcony and seeing this most incredible creature who seemed so comfortable in her own skin. And I thought, I don't know what that is, but I want it. Like, what is that? I felt awkward and I had a cross. I had a wandering eye. I felt so, like whatever that is. And so what? The big Hollywood kind of moment evolved with spending time with her, going to dance class, doing things. I met Roman Polanski.

[Demi Moore]

How was that?

[Unknown]

Interesting. Didn't know nothing had yet occurred on the other side. I remember the moment was she felt very comfortable speaking English but didn't feel as confident reading and so asked me if I would read scripts aloud to her.

Yeah.

And that's when I kind of had this visceral experience of this storytelling, this world that you could kind of dive into in this different way. And then not too long, she left to go actually make Tess with Roman Polanski. And I had eye surgery so that my eyes moved together.

Yeah.

And I made this decision, like, what do you. I want to try to do this. What do you have to do? I had no idea what it was. Never trained, didn't have an effing clue.

[Demi Moore]

And you were like 16.

[Unknown]

Not even 16 yet. 15.

[Demi Moore]

And she goes to do tests and now you're like, I got to get in there.

[Unknown]

Like, what is it? How do you do it?

[Marc Maron]

And what happened?

[Unknown]

Somebody said, well, you need to get an agent. How do you do that? Well, you need to get pictures. Like, it was like such a.

[Demi Moore]

And your mom was good with it.

[Unknown]

I think. Truth is, I could have kind of done whatever I wanted.

[Demi Moore]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Unknown]

You know, think about it. I'm 15 my mom's what, 32.

[Demi Moore]

Right. And she's worrying about her own shit.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I just set out very, kind of very practical in a very practical kind of way. But I didn't ever feel I had a real sense of a foundation. It's not like somebody said, go study theater. And I had, you know, as part of the survival pathway, you know, my education was completely a mess and so I needed to work. Yeah. And so I, I, I didn't finish 11th grade.

[Demi Moore]

Did all right.

[Unknown]

I did okay. But the downside of that, and this is why I always encourage. It's not that you can't have an education a different way. Life is an education. Living is an education. Like, what more, you know, do we need? But there was a missing piece in my own self judgment that I wasn't smart.

[Demi Moore]

Right.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

And that was one of the big things that I had to work to overcome because I wasn't exposed to even the idea of learning how to learn.

[Demi Moore]

Right.

[Unknown]

I had been in a survival mode.

[Demi Moore]

For so long in so many different schools.

[Unknown]

So long.

Yeah.

And again, I was very practical. I need, like, I've been moved around so much, don't have enough credits, and I'm ready to get on with it. Like, I need to, like.

[Demi Moore]

So you got a job?

[Unknown]

I got a job. I worked at a collection agency. I always had a deep voice, so that kind of worked for them on the phone. They didn't know I was a kid. On the other end of the phone.

Yeah.

Deep in Hollywood, I think. Like Hollywood and Vine.

Yeah.

Shithole office.

Yeah.

I think we take the bus. And it was like I, I had kind of, I, I'd been at Fairfax.

[Demi Moore]

High School for a short while and that's pretty. There was some stars there, right?

[Unknown]

Anthony Kiedis, Flea.

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

You knew those guys?

[Unknown]

I didn't know them, but we were there the same year. We're all the same age.

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

Wild.

[Unknown]

I know.

[Demi Moore]

Those guys must have been out of control. It seems like he would definitely have known them.

[Unknown]

I think they may have been in a whole other world. And plus, I was literally like, it was so short because I was at Fairfax. Then I left and went to Pali for a short while, then was back at Fairfax. But in the continuation part, the screw up part.

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

It was also like, you're this kid with an unstable mom looking for some sort of connection in a fairly crazy environment. Time, a predatory time. I mean, how do you surface?

[Unknown]

Well, I learned very quickly, so I got a SAG card, which was a really big deal.

[Demi Moore]

How'd you do that?

[Unknown]

Somehow I did get an agent. I got pictures and I got a two word line on a silly TV show. Not silly, I shouldn't say that. Just a show many people don't know called Kaz.

[Demi Moore]

I remember that. Who's that lead guy?

[Unknown]

Lieberman.

[Demi Moore]

Yeah, Lieberman. He's a great actor.

[Marc Maron]

Ron Lieberman.

[Unknown]

Ron Lieberman.

[Demi Moore]

I saw him in Angels in America.

[Unknown]

So he was the lead of the show, Kaz.

[Demi Moore]

Kind of.

[Unknown]

Yeah. And like I was like 15. Yeah. And I. So I was officially Taft heart lead.

[Demi Moore]

Oh, yeah, that's what that was.

[Unknown]

Right. And then I, and, and I don't know, through the agent and I, I got these two lines which was playing a young prostitute.

Yeah.

$50. Mister.

Yeah.

That was my big moment. But you know what? Like that was a game changer.

Yeah.

Like there was like something that felt like game on. Official.

Yeah.

But then I.

[Demi Moore]

When you're on a set, you could see.

[Unknown]

Yeah. So I think it had to have been in one of the studios in the Valley. I don't remember exactly. I had not a clue. Like I was definitely of the university, Fake It Till youl Make It. And so I just. But I learned very quickly as I started to go on some auditions that they would rather hire somebody over 18 to play a teenager. Unless you were somebody like say Jodie Foster, who had been doing it since she was quite young, or even Helen Hunt. Like there was like a lot of these other actors my age, but who had a lot more experience.

Yeah.

So then I, I figured out that I could potentially model. Lie about my height.

Yeah.

Lie about my age and somewhat make a living without having to have a regular job, like, like a 9 to 5 kind of job. I was able to do that. And then as soon as I turned 18, I actually started to book work, more work. But then the real game changer was when I got the soap a month before my 19th birthday.

[Demi Moore]

You didn't do any acting training?

[Unknown]

I did a tiny. Not much at all. There was this wonderful woman, very theatrical, named Zena Provendy, and somebody had recommended that class. But the weird thing is now this is how sometimes our brains work.

Yeah.

In my weird twisted brain, I thought I could go on an audition and if I get rejected, there's a lot of reasons why.

Yeah.

But if I go into an acting class and they tell me I'm terrible, that might mean I can't really do it, so I should avoid that.

[Demi Moore]

Right.

[Unknown]

So alcoholic.

[Demi Moore]

Right. But also self preserving.

[Unknown]

No, it is. And it's very clever.

[Demi Moore]

Who wants to know the truth?

[Unknown]

Very clever how my brain maneuvered like this kind of thing.

Yeah, Well, I mean.

[Demi Moore]

But that also shows some belief in yourself because you obviously are very good at it, but you didn't want to.

[Unknown]

Risk that because somehow it would be as if somebody said it that might be the truth.

[Demi Moore]

Right.

[Unknown]

And so I couldn't afford that.

[Demi Moore]

And you couldn't believe in yourself yet.

[Unknown]

No, I didn't have enough of myself to believe in. Not for a long time.

[Demi Moore]

So when you got. What was it? Which soap was it? General Hospital.

[Unknown]

General Hospital.

[Demi Moore]

And that shot here.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

That's crazy.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

And you were on that for, what.

[Unknown]

So all in two years? Because right in the first, you know, beginning, I got offered this movie, Blame it on Rio, with Stanley Donnan, Michael Caine and Joe Bologna.

[Demi Moore]

Right.

[Unknown]

Where Michael Caine played my dad.

[Demi Moore]

Yeah, I remember.

[Unknown]

So. Which is not a movie. You could not make that movie today.

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

I don't remember what happened in it exactly.

[Unknown]

Well, it's two fathers taking their daughters and the one father ends up having an affair with the other daughter.

Oh, yeah.

[Demi Moore]

Couldn't make that day.

[Unknown]

Could not make that day.

[Demi Moore]

But I imagine that it's a General Hospital thing. Just because you're getting Scripps day of. And you're learning, you know, that the.

[Unknown]

It was great.

[Demi Moore]

Like, learning.

[Unknown]

It thrust me into something that was a whole other world.

Yeah.

And I really saw and appreciated what that was giving me. And at the same time. And I also saw people that really loved being there, who had been there for years. And I thought, that's so incredible. What an amazing thing to feel so content where you are enjoying this. And I thought, wow, that is not me. Like, I'm so. I see this as, like, this beginning of possibilities. There's so much out there.

Yeah. Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

And so. Okay, so you get blaming on Rio and then you just start doing it.

[Unknown]

Yeah. I come back, I do another movie. I go back, finish my contract, do another movie with Jerry Schatzberg called no Small Affair. And then I got St. Elmo's Fire.

[Demi Moore]

That was a big one.

[Unknown]

Yeah. For a bunch of young actors, it was like the change. Also, they weren't doing films that were.

[Demi Moore]

Young people's stories, like the Big Chill for Kids.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

And that was the big break.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

Now what? Now where are you at with substance abuse?

[Unknown]

So me at that point.

Yeah.

So I got St. Elmo's Fire.

Yeah.

And I had known, like, drinking wasn't good for me.

Yeah.

But that didn't proclaim include Coke.

[Demi Moore]

Right.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

Like, that didn't seem to. So.

[Demi Moore]

Wow. You could do one without the other. That's crazy.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

So you're jacked.

[Unknown]

Lunatic. And so I get St. Elmo's Fire. And I remember Joel Schumacher saying to me, if I hear of you even drinking one beer, And I was thinking, I don't drink.

Yeah.

Like. And then I got a call from the studio executive.

Yeah.

Who basically said, unless you're dying, you need to show up at this place tomorrow. And Joel kind of had humiliated me, in truth, with this wardrobe fitting about, like, drinking. And I hadn't even done anything that he had seen.

Yeah.

But obviously, as you know, it's. We're sneaky shit. And so I started the movie with 15 days of sobriety. I showed up at this place and it said, alcohol Rehabilitation Center. And I was like, no, no, you don't understand. That's my mother.

Yeah.

I'm a drug addict.

[Demi Moore]

Right.

[Unknown]

That's not me.

[Marc Maron]

I can handle it.

[Unknown]

And she. And the woman who was the administrator had spoken with me, and she said, you know, we'd like to put you in a bed. And of course, they did it as it said, they had my bag and everything was already all set. So I didn't. I couldn't have. They covered all the excuses I might have. And I said, no, no, but you don't understand. I'm starting a film in 15 days. And she says, what's more important, the film or your life? And I said, the film. Because you know what that is. At that moment, all I had. That was my life.

Yeah.

And by truly the grace of God, Joel stuck his neck out, the studio stuck their neck out, the producers stuck their neck out. And I wasn't anybody. At a point where I had box office, there was no reason, except I think there was part of that group that was doing for me what they could not do for themselves. And it was a miracle.

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

And he stayed sober for a long time.

[Unknown]

I stayed Sober for almost 20 years.

Yeah.

Had a small detour, and now I just turned 13.

[Demi Moore]

That's great.

[Unknown]

Yeah. So essentially, the majority of my adult life.

Yeah.

I've been sober. It's so much more natural to me.

Yeah.

And I'm truly so, like. I'm like, don't need to do any other detour.

[Demi Moore]

I know. Like, I. You know, like, I went vegan a couple years ago, and it wasn't even for ethical reasons, but I really feel like I've done enough meat.

[Unknown]

Yeah. I'm vegan also.

Yeah.

It just.

[Demi Moore]

It's better.

[Unknown]

I Feel better.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

So you do St. Elmo's, but, like, the thing that really kind of broke the world was the Ghost role. Right.

[Unknown]

I mean, that, like, kind of the trajectory was St. Elmo's about last night.

[Demi Moore]

Oh, yeah. That was good.

[Unknown]

And that was, you know.

[Demi Moore]

Did Mamet write that script? It was based on sexual perversity in Chicago. Right.

[Unknown]

He did in Ed Zwick.

[Demi Moore]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I know that guy. Jim Belushi.

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

Yeah, I remember. And what was Elizabeth Perkins? Oh, yeah, Elizabeth Perkins.

[Unknown]

Amazing.

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

She's great.

[Unknown]

And it was. If I really look back, it's not like things happened overnight, but it was all moving in a very steady direction. And I can look back today and realize, wow, I was terrified.

Yeah.

That I didn't know what I was doing. That I definitely was a fraud.

[Demi Moore]

Sure.

[Unknown]

I didn't know how I was. How did I. Where was it coming from?

Yeah.

I didn't know.

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

But you were showing up. You actually must have been. Had some transformative talent once you got in it.

[Unknown]

I mean, there was something. The thing was, is, when you don't know what that is.

Yeah.

It's very scary because you're like, maybe it'll show up today, maybe it won't. How did that happen?

[Demi Moore]

Are they lying to me or are they telling me the truth?

[Unknown]

And so you have no. Like, I had no blueprint or barometer for my own all the way up through Ghost. Well, yeah, Like, I think Ghost was. Ghost became a shift because it was. Because it really. It really pushed me deeply out of my comfort zone because it was really pushing me to deal with something I had never dealt with. And don't even think consciously, even in the process dealt with, which was grief over. Just grief, general grief. Because the movie Ghost is all about loss.

[Demi Moore]

No, I know. Yeah. But, like, what were you accessing?

[Unknown]

That's the thing is, I think I had such deep grief by that point. My dad had killed himself.

Yeah.

My. You know, my. I was, you know, had a very, you know, challenged relationship with my mother. I had been on my own so long, you know, I did ghost at 25. Almost 26, I think. 26. I'd been on my own already 10 years.

Yeah.

So I think.

[Demi Moore]

And you didn't process any of it?

[Unknown]

I don't think that. I mean, I had only a little bit by being sober, but I don't think that. I think that I had a lot of grief there. I just. It wasn't processed.

[Demi Moore]

Right.

[Unknown]

Yeah, that's it.

[Demi Moore]

And so. But it came up for the role.

[Unknown]

It must have been. I must have tapped into it somewhere, because it's there and it's all. And I could. And only because my youngest daughter and her fiance had never seen ghost. And so we literally just watched it two weeks ago.

[Demi Moore]

Wow.

[Unknown]

And I hadn't seen it in over 30 years.

Yeah.

That was wild.

[Demi Moore]

What'd you think?

[Unknown]

I was much more appreciative and forgiving and still, like, I had a lot of compassion for that little girl that was there who didn't know what she was doing or how it got there. And I was actually like, wow, you did okay, kid. Fuck.

[Demi Moore]

That'S good to have that.

[Unknown]

You know, it's like the beauty of having a little time is just. Just that kind of gentility with self that you can see that you couldn't give then.

Yeah.

I was so hard on myself all the time.

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Nothing was ever enough. I was never enough, ever.

Yeah.

I beat the. Out of myself.

Yeah. I do that.

[Demi Moore]

Not as much as I used to.

[Unknown]

I'm better, too.

Yeah.

It's not that it doesn't come up. I just can. I can just identify it, process it, and shift it so fast.

[Demi Moore]

But so. But all of a sudden, with ghosts, you're like a huge star. International people are dressing like you.

[Unknown]

You're cutting their hair, doing pottery.

Yeah, yeah.

[Demi Moore]

And.

[Marc Maron]

And.

[Demi Moore]

And you didn't. It's amazing. You didn't use.

[Unknown]

Nope.

[Demi Moore]

And you managed that shot to, like, you know, it's like you become that hot. It's like. It must have been crazy.

[Unknown]

I think I just was kind of staying, like, I don't know, just trying to do the best I could with whatever was in front of me.

[Demi Moore]

Right.

[Unknown]

But there was.

[Demi Moore]

Were you, like. So.

[Marc Maron]

But were you applying?

[Demi Moore]

Were you doing the. The program and stuff? Okay. So that you're like, you know, do what's in front of you. Like, you're applying principles to stay in the present and be a decent worker among workers and whatnot.

[Unknown]

And I think again, you know, it's like, I think truth is truth, and it resonates. I think there was so much in what I got out of, you know, the various 12 step that just goes, yes, I recognize truth. And as I said at the beginning, I was a seeker of truth.

Yeah.

I'm still a seeker of truth.

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

12 step helps get a lot of the clutter out of the way, you know, so you at least can see your personal truth pretty clearly. Well, that's great. And so after that, I didn't realize just that you were this Pioneer of women's pay that, you know, you demanded. When you had the juice, you demanded equal pay, and you got it.

[Unknown]

Well, what's interesting about that, too, it was framed as equal pay. I think what I was in that moment.

Yeah.

Because I've indirectly had some very bold moments that have made what some people would refer to as feminist statements. And for me, they were always just my own questioning of something that didn't make sense. So my sense was, wow, at that point, let's say when GI Jane came and stripped Tease, I had been in quite a few films that had made a certain amount of money.

[Demi Moore]

A lot of money.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

And other. And as I looked around, there was parody. Like, if you had delivered that, that also you. That was returned.

[Demi Moore]

Right.

[Unknown]

And so it was really just asking for what I felt was earned.

Yeah.

Not. I wasn't trying to, like, equal a man. It wasn't like. It's like, I wasn't in competition with men. I was in competition with maybe being fair. Fair, yeah.

[Demi Moore]

Equal what was.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Demi Moore]

Yeah, exactly. You know, it didn't make sense that you were driving this thing and, you know, you wouldn't get the same amount of money.

[Unknown]

And so it was really, once again, very practical. I saw it very practically, and obviously, I'm not naive to the fact that when that started to come in, like, the fact that, wow, this could change it for all women. And I was very energized and moved by that idea and also aware that anybody who steps out as the first is gonna take some hits.

[Demi Moore]

And you did.

[Unknown]

Oh, yeah. In terms of roles, I think that there was a lot of shaming.

Yeah.

There was a lot of. Like, they did not want to let GI Jane win as a. As a. Like, they were killing it months before it ever even was seen or could come out. It's like, the idea of me playing a stripper, it's. You know, I said it in my book, which is in reflection. I feel like striptease. I kind of betrayed women in GI Jane. I betrayed men. And then I had so much media focus around the price tag. It's like, you're not that good. You don't really deserve that.

[Demi Moore]

Right, right.

[Unknown]

And you took your clothes off.

Yeah.

And so everything was diminishing what I was bringing to the table.

[Demi Moore]

Right.

[Unknown]

And so it was like, they're gonna kill this before it can get anywhere.

[Demi Moore]

Well. Cause I thought GI Jane was oddly, like, an insanely vulnerable movie.

[Unknown]

I agree with you.

[Demi Moore]

You know, like, it's not. There's nothing shallow about that movie.

[Unknown]

And I Think it holds up? Actually, it really does.

[Demi Moore]

The journey of that character, you know, given the expectations and then, you know, being at odds with your own vulnerability but not being able to hide it was kind of an insane role.

[Unknown]

And I think, you know, for me, I think I've naturally gravitated towards roles and they to me that have challenged the status quo, have brought provocative questions, whether it's indecent proposal or things that really are not sexually provocative necessarily, but just thought provoking.

[Demi Moore]

Yeah, but the point is that you've been doing this top notch work for so long and now finally everyone's like, hey look, she's here, it's time.

[Unknown]

But like we were saying before, everything in its right time, I guess.

[Demi Moore]

But didn't it drive you fucking nuts?

[Unknown]

Here's the thing. Nobody can throw you under the bus unless you've thrown yourself under already.

Yeah.

And I think, you know, I shared when I won the Golden Globe that story about being a popcorn actress.

Yeah.

I don't know if you heard that.

[Demi Moore]

Oh yeah, I remember.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

So which was a real experience that I had. And. But again, it doesn't matter who he was or even really what he said, it's what I made it mean about me.

[Demi Moore]

Right.

[Unknown]

And how like that idea, like okay, you get to be this, but you can't be that. Like somehow I lost the idea that the two things could coexist. The universe was also showing me that that wasn't happening. And so I just started to believe it until I really questioned whether or not there was meaningful, memorable work still out there for me. And not in a way that I felt bad or sorry for myself, but really again, very practically, like maybe the universe was saying to me, it's time to shift gears, try something else.

[Demi Moore]

Sure. You mean not acting?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

Oh, okay. What would that be?

[Unknown]

You know, who knows, maybe I'd become a psychologists. But I think it's so my point, all of that is it's not like, oh, I should have gotten something I. That isn't doesn't matter because that's not how it happened.

Yeah.

And maybe it didn't happen so that the impact right now could affect and be so much more important to so many other people. That it's bigger than me. This is happening and it's bigger than me.

Yeah.

That this is something that is of me being of service to something that is. Of course it is for me. And it is an incredible acknowledgment and I am so deeply humbled. But I also know that all of the hardships the journeys, the times that I. All of my lows are part of the humanity, of my vulnerability, of my humanness. That people see that maybe that's what it's for.

[Demi Moore]

And also, like, you probably. Who knows if you would have been able even to tackle a role like this at another time.

[Unknown]

No, it's all of those things that led me, you know, it's all of the things that I tortured myself in my younger years. All that violence against myself that I was able from a more healed place to be able to go in and also bring a different perspective of that is that we are not victims.

Yeah.

That nobody could do something worse to me than what I've done to myself. And there's been some pretty awful things that I've experienced.

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

Well, I mean, when I saw the movie, I didn't know what to expect or anything. Like, I just knew that, you know, it sounded like. The premise of it sounded interesting. But, like, you know, I'm not necessarily a horror guy, but I'm certainly a Cronenberg guy, and I'm certainly.

[Marc Maron]

So I didn't really know what to expect.

[Demi Moore]

And I came out of it like, holy fuck, this is a masterpiece. Everyone's got to see this. And I would tell people they got to see it. And people were like, really?

[Marc Maron]

I'm like, yeah, really.

[Demi Moore]

It's deeper than whatever you think it is. And for sure it is.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

And I got. I got people to go. And we had conversations about it. I thought that the director knew exactly, you know, in a sort of frame to frame way, what she was doing and what she wanted and what her sources were. And you could see the homage to her heroes.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Which was beautiful.

[Marc Maron]

Terrific.

[Demi Moore]

And like, you know, even once.

[Marc Maron]

It's.

[Demi Moore]

What makes it amazing is that, you.

[Marc Maron]

Know, once you buy into the conceit.

[Demi Moore]

Which is you almost immediately, you know, it becomes a poetry movie in terms of what it's really depicting.

[Marc Maron]

You're not wondering, like, where is she.

[Demi Moore]

Really getting the drugs? Who's in there?

[Marc Maron]

What.

[Demi Moore]

It doesn't matter.

[Unknown]

It's irrelevant. Totally. It's totally irrelevant.

[Marc Maron]

But that's a hard thing.

[Demi Moore]

Thing to transcend, you know, if the movie isn't so masterful. And it just was. And you were. You were great. Quality was great.

[Marc Maron]

The sort of.

[Demi Moore]

What it had to say about all.

[Marc Maron]

This stuff we're talking about.

[Unknown]

Exactly.

[Demi Moore]

About how we see ourselves and, you know, and the price of that, you know, and what you're willing to do to sort of, you know, honor the damage is kind of crazy.

[Unknown]

Yeah. And that Chase of like that the answer is not on the outside. There is no amount of searching, achieving that will ever give us that thing that we're looking for, which is that true liberation of that. I think first, forgiveness of self leads to acceptance of self. And as you accept, you really open the pathway of really loving and appreciating to the point where you can then actually really celebrate the shadow side. Not just accept it, but actually go. Ooh, boy. That's really kind of a groovy little weird part of me.

Yeah. Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

I think that it's good that you did it. And I feel for myself that I've been on the precipice of it for a while. I'm close, but I realize that it takes. It really is a trust to open your heart. And, like, I can feel the weight of that. And there's still a good part of me that's sort of like. Yeah, just not all at once. Maybe you want to just walk around crying all the time.

[Unknown]

I read this great, you know, page from Mark Nepo today that was all about the door.

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

Oh, is that so? It's the door.

[Unknown]

There's a word for it, this door. And that you can go and do a lot of things, but that door is still waiting. And you can try to sand the door down and repaint it, but you've got to go through the door. I know you got to go through the door, but I also think we have to have the gentility and to give ourselves the dignity of our process. And, you know, as much as it's crazy making. There are things that you do keep repeating until you don't have to anymore.

Yeah. Yeah.

But I see your leg is going now as we've gotten into the.

[Demi Moore]

Well, you don't have to repeat it, but, you know, ultimately what happens. What's weird about any of that stuff is that in its repetition, you realize it doesn't work anymore. And, you know, when you're. When you're in that zone of repetition, you know, you either are going to, like, give up or move through it.

[Unknown]

Yeah. It's like that true. The true idea of surrender, which is not giving up, it's letting go.

[Demi Moore]

That's right.

[Unknown]

Right. And that there's a. And again, the language is really important.

[Demi Moore]

And what you're letting go is the. That is the gateway to yourself.

[Unknown]

Yeah. It's like letting go of these stories that are misunderstandings, misperceptions, and misidentifications, and.

[Demi Moore]

Also letting go of the behaviors that keep you from acknowledging or seeing or Being with yourself.

[Unknown]

Yeah. It's like these comfort zones that keep us safe but also keep us limited. Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

Or keep us sick.

[Unknown]

By the way, as I got this respiratory thing, I immediately thought somebody wrote me and said, oh, you know, lungs are old or repressed. Sadness and grief. What's coming up for you? And I thought, wow, okay. Yeah, I'm gonna lean into this and see what's there. And to your point, exactly. Like there is a part that's been so protected, but what am I really protecting anymore?

[Demi Moore]

Anymore?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

It's so young, but it's also, it's not even stuff that I could pinpoint because it's not relevant. But my body doesn't know the difference. So I just have to encourage it to move through this and open the pathway.

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

I hold all of my stuff in my chest. You too. It's up. But we're doing good.

[Unknown]

We are. We're still here.

Yeah.

[Demi Moore]

It's great seeing you.

[Unknown]

Thank you.

[Demi Moore]

I'm glad we talked. I think it was helpful.

[Unknown]

Was it? Yeah, I hope so. Did we do it?

Yeah.

All right.

[Marc Maron]

There you go.

[Demi Moore]

What it like, you know, a person.

[Marc Maron]

Who continues to do work on on themselves and make changes and also be self aware to somehow get to a better life. It's doable even with the authoritarian dread again. Demi is nominated for best actress at the Academy Awards for her performance in the Substance. Hang out for a minute, folks. Hey, if you're a guy who's losing your hair, you probably know about treatment options that are available to you. But a lot of times the waiting is the hardest part. It's bad enough to worry about losing your hair, but then you're waiting forever for it to grow back. That's why you need hims and you can start seeing your hair grow back in as little as three to six months. HIMS makes treating hair loss simple. With options that are clinically proven and trusted by doctors. You can get known hair growth ingredients like finasteride and minoxidil to restore your hair and build back your confidence. Just answer a few questions and a medical provider will determine if treatment is right for you. If prescribed, your treatment is sent directly to your door. Start your free online Visit [e-mail] WTF that's H I M S.com WTF for your personalized hair loss treatment options. Hisss.com WTF results vary based on studies of topical and oral minoxidil and finasteride. Prescription products require an online consultation with a healthcare provider who will determine if a prescription is appropriate. Restrictions apply. See website for full details and important safety information. Ah, this is exciting. On Monday's show, I talked to Ariana Grande, who's nominated for the Best Supporting Actress Oscar at this year's Academy Awards. We talked about that, but also about.

[Demi Moore]

A lot of other stuff.

[Unknown]

Are you afraid of it?

[Demi Moore]

Of death? Well, I don't know. I think about it all the time.

[Unknown]

How are we here already? I had a feeling because I've listened to your show and I'm a fan of yours, but I knew. I had a strange feeling that we would. You and I would meet somehow say.

[Demi Moore]

Hello and then talk about death.

[Unknown]

I would meet one cat.

[Demi Moore]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Two.

[Demi Moore]

You met.

[Unknown]

And we would jump into, like, the depths of everything we've ever experienced. I'm so sorry for asking you if.

You'Re afraid of death.

[Demi Moore]

No, no, no. I mean, like.

[Marc Maron]

No, I think it's the most, you.

[Demi Moore]

Know, it's a pretty honest question. And I mean, the entire, you know, global economy is built on people being afraid of death and being distracted. But of course, when I think about it, sometimes I think, like, well, that'll be, you know, it'll be relaxing. Like, you know, I think I'm ready for a rest, you know, But I generally like to wake up.

[Unknown]

Oh, my God, I'm sorry.

I'm having a coughing.

[Marc Maron]

But no, but, yeah, I think I.

[Demi Moore]

Am afraid of it. But I do. I think I can acknowledge it as an inevitability and I think coming to peace with it, which you don't have to do. You're young and I'm not that old. But there is a point where you're kind of like, walking with it on a certain level.

[Unknown]

But, I mean, I feel like I've kind of experienced many things that have put it at the front of my brain and made me spend some time thinking about it.

[Demi Moore]

Right. The fragility of life.

[Unknown]

Yeah, the fragility of life. And kind of like, where do we go and what happens and am I. And how do I feel about it?

Yeah.

And I don't know. I mean, there is sort of a. There is sort of a freedom and acceptance.

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

If you can do it, you'll hear that on Monday. But if you're a full Marin subscriber, you can hear my thoughts right after Ariana left the garage. Sign up by going to the link in the episode description or go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF Plus. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by acast. Okay, Dream Syndicate fans.

[Demi Moore]

Boomer Lives Monkey and La Fonda cat angels everywhere.