Episode 1624 - W. Kamau Bell - WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Summary5 min read

WTF with Marc Maron Podcast – Episode 1624: W. Kamau Bell

Release Date: March 10, 2025

Host: Marc Maron
Guest: W. Kamau Bell

Introduction

In Episode 1624 of the "WTF with Marc Maron" podcast, Marc Maron welcomes comedian and activist W. Kamau Bell for an in-depth conversation. Recorded in a hotel room in San Antonio, Texas, the episode delves into personal anecdotes, the intricacies of stand-up comedy, political activism, and the challenges of navigating a career in comedy amidst a polarized political landscape.

Personal Journeys and Comedic Paths

Marc Maron begins by reminiscing about his experiences performing in San Antonio, highlighting the emotional impact of returning to familiar venues:

"Comedy condos are. Someone should do a documentary about that experience."
[03:15]

He transitions to discussing his interactions with W. Kamau Bell, emphasizing their longstanding relationship and mutual respect within the comedy community.

W. Kamau Bell shares his journey back to stand-up comedy after a five-year hiatus caused by the COVID-19 pandemic:

"I had to decide, like, it's okay to not do it that way."
[37:37]

Kamau explains his shift from traditional club performances to more intimate theater settings, allowing him to craft and refine his material in a way that resonates deeply with diverse audiences.

Navigating Comedy in a Divided America

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on the role of comedians in political discourse and societal change.

Marc Maron reflects on the responsibility that comes with being a public figure:

"A lot of people were terrified. There is that element of not just feeling seen, but... a community service."
[21:40]

W. Kamau Bell discusses the delicate balance between entertaining and enlightening the audience:

"We're all here. Let's laugh. [...] Here's some things you need to go do once you leave here."
[22:16]

They delve into the complexities of addressing political issues through humor, debating the effectiveness of boycotts, civil disobedience, and grassroots activism.

For instance, Kamau critiques the oversimplification of boycotts:

"It's not just one thing."
[25:16]

While Marc expresses cynicism about the impact of individual actions:

"I'm cynical about it. I've been publicly cynical about boycotts."
[25:13]

Community Engagement and Activism

Both comedians emphasize the importance of community involvement beyond the comedy stage.

W. Kamau Bell highlights his efforts in Oakland to support local artists and filmmakers by advocating for tax incentives:

"We got them pass. It's just the city's too broke to really do anything with it."
[48:12]

Marc Maron echoes the sentiment of making meaningful contributions to one's immediate environment, underscoring the potential of localized actions to foster broader societal change.

Impact of Politics on Personal Lives

The discussion takes a personal turn as both Marc and Kamau explore how the tumultuous political climate affects their families and mental well-being.

W. Kamau Bell shares his family's experience living in Oakland, navigating safety concerns, and the challenges of exposing his children to political realities:

"It's just a constant negotiation of like, what should I be doing, how much I'll be putting them out there."
[61:28]

Marc Maron reflects on the broader societal impact of political divisions:

"You can be like Bill Maher. It's like, well, I'm gonna agree with some of the things that Trump is doing. I'm not."
[33:28]

The Role of Media and Information

Both hosts critically examine the media landscape, discussing the proliferation of misinformation and the erosion of trust in expert opinions.

W. Kamau Bell laments the rise of "confidently stupid" discourse, where individuals vehemently promote unfounded beliefs without empirical evidence:

"It's all tied into, like, being a man and being a provider, and it's like."
[58:27]

Marc Maron concurs, emphasizing the futility of engaging with misinformation:

"He's afraid of engaging with somebody who will never believe what he has to say even though it's based on empirical evidence."
[73:42]

Future Endeavors and Closing Thoughts

As the episode nears its conclusion, both Marc and Kamau discuss their ongoing and future projects. Kamau mentions his successful Substack venture, "Who's With Me?", as a platform for continuous creative expression and community engagement.

W. Kamau Bell encourages hosts and listeners alike to embrace new mediums for storytelling and activism:

"It's a better way to spend your time online than, yeah, I'm a big. You should come to substack. Let me."
[77:48]

Marc Maron wraps up by highlighting the enduring value of authentic conversations and shared human experiences, underscoring the essence of the "WTF" podcast.

Key Takeaways

Balancing Humor and Activism: Comedians like Marc Maron and W. Kamau Bell navigate the fine line between entertaining audiences and fostering meaningful societal change through their platforms.
Community Engagement: Active involvement in local initiatives and supporting grassroots movements can amplify the impact of individual actions in combating systemic issues.
Media Literacy: Critical engagement with media and skepticism towards unfounded claims are essential in an era of misinformation and polarized narratives.
Personal Resilience: Maintaining personal well-being and fostering strong familial bonds are crucial for public figures confronting societal challenges.

Notable Quotes

Marc Maron on Community Responsibility:
"We get to a certain age where you're like, all right, this is my audience, you know, for better, for worse. You, you know, they're grownups, they're thinking people, they're terrified."
[21:40]
W. Kamau Bell on Empathy:
"We're not douche bags. We're empathy whores."
[56:52]
Marc Maron on Cynicism:
"I'm cynical about it. I've been publicly cynical about boycotts."
[25:13]
W. Kamau Bell on Substack:
"It's a way to keep my brain working and bits come out of it because, you know. Yeah, my latest one, I just was like, how many different insults can I think of for Steve Bannon?"
[77:20]

Conclusion

Episode 1624 offers a profound exploration of the intersection between comedy, politics, and personal responsibility. Through candid dialogue, Marc Maron and W. Kamau Bell illuminate the challenges and opportunities that comedians face in influencing public discourse and fostering community resilience. This episode serves as a testament to the power of authentic conversation in navigating and shaping the cultural landscape.

Find More Episodes and Subscribe: To listen to Episode 1624 and other episodes of the "WTF with Marc Maron" podcast, visit wtfpod.com.

Loading summary

Transcript708 lines

[00:01]
Marc Maron
You just heard Bill Burr on this show a few weeks ago, and now you can watch him in his natural habitat, the standup stage. Bill is coming to Hulu on March 14th with his Hoolarious standup special, Bill Drop Dead Years. Get Bill's provocative and unfiltered point of view on everything from marriage and parenthood to dating advice, and yes, dropping dead. See the new hilarious standup special, Bill Burr, Drop Dead Years, Streaming on Hulu March 14th. All right, let's do this. How are you? What the. What the Buddies? What the Knicks? I'm Marc Maron. This is my podcast. Wtf. Welcome to it. We're still going. We're still happening. So many years, so many episodes into this thing, I'm in a hotel room. I'm in a weird old kind of. It's not musty, but I would say it's complicated. It's a strangely complicated hotel here in San Antonio, Texas. Right on the Riverwalk. I can open up my window, step out onto a balcony, and see just parades of tourists just trudging along down the Riverwalk. And it's weird to be back in San Antonio. I don't feel like I've been here for a while and I've got some memory. It's an odd thing when you've been doing comedy as long as I have, that every town you go to, that you've been to more than once in your life, doing comedy over the arc of your comedy career is somewhat of a trauma trigger because at different points in your life, you have a different set of fears and panic and professionalism. And there's definitely some major trauma triggers here in San Antonio, Texas. For me, there's a couple of good times. I think if you go back in the catalog, I don't remember which episode it was. It might be the Lucas Melendez episode. We were. We were out in the world, wandering around San Antonio. I think we went to the Alamo and when then we ended up at some conjuto music festival. That was one of the. The better times. But really early on, man, they used to have this club here called the River Center Comedy Club. And I remember when it opened, I can't even put a year on. It must be mid-90s, I don't know. But when they opened it, everything was high end, man. It was like, this is a hot new club, and we got you a hot new modern condo to stay in. And it was just the best. And then years later, I went back and no one was coming to the club anymore. And the condo was garbage. It wasn't even the same condo. Comedy condos are. Someone should do a documentary about that experience. Because once a condo has been around for a while and enough monsters and comics and weirdos have come through over the years, you might not want to sit on that leather couch. Certainly don't want to open anything in the refrigerator. And what the fuck? When was the last time those blankets were cleaned? Yeah, and it's all your dirty peers that are coming into that joint. So that makes it even more disturbing. But. But I remember one time doing the River Center Comedy Club here in San Antonio, and the place was huge. It was like the size of a. Of like a airplane hangar in my memory. And I drew like 15 people spread out in a room that seated like 400. And you don't forget that kind of stuff. I don't know where you catalog it or where you repress it to, but not a great feeling. Just waiting and realizing, well, this is it. This is going to be the number of people that I'm going to perform for tonight in this large place. And there's no way. It's not going to be fucking pathetic. Yeah, I remember it was in the mall. It was in the River Center Mall. And one time I saw that kid who was. It was the weirdest thing because I've never met the guy and I, you know, I've always wanted to ask him, you know, it was the guy from. From E.T. henry Thomas. It was here in San Antonio. It was at the mall. It must have been in the mid-90s or the mid to late 90s. And he was just like crouched on the side in the mall watching people. I do. Observing. I don't know. I'd really like to get it verified because maybe I was just hallucinating, you know, because I, you know, I'm the guy who thought he saw General Flynn in Glendale on my hike. So it. I wouldn't trust my eyes on this one. But. But I do think it's possible that the guy from ET Was at the River Center Mall at some point in his life. Perhaps, perhaps. Maybe it was just a character he played in ET and that's where, you know, he went up and came back down and ended up there. I don't know. I don't know. Look, today on the show, I talked to W. Kamau Bell. He's been on the show quite a few times. He was on pretty regularly, you know, right from the start. The first time he was on was episode 46, and he was also interviewed for the documentary about me. Are we good? And I'm doing a live conversation with him at south by Southwest this week. He's also out on tour now and he's a smart guy and I thought we'd catch up and also also Tour dates Durham, NC I'll be at the Carolina Theater of Durham on Friday, March 21. Charlotte, North Carolina I'm at the Knight Theater on Saturday, March 22 and I'll be in Charleston, South Carolina at the Charleston Music hall on Sunday, March 23. Then Skokie, Illinois I'm coming to the North Shore center for the Performing arts on Friday, March 28 and Juliet, Illinois. I'm at the Rialto Square Theater on Saturday, March 29. Then I'm coming to Michigan, Toronto, Vermont, New Hampshire and New York City for my special taping. Go to wtfpod.com tour for all of my dates and links to tickets. Do it there. Don't go to scalper sites. Again, do not search Marc Maron tour tickets your city because you will be taken to a number of scalper sites. Go to the links@wtfpod.com tour or go to the venue's links so you don't get ripped off. Or wonder why I'm charging so much money for tickets because I don't really. I still think I'm on the lower end of that spectrum of ticket price. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace and Squarespace has been through a lot with us. They've sponsored us for more than a decade. Then we redesigned wtfpod.com with Squarespace and we launched a special site with them when I had President Obama in the garage. Now it's your turn to get started on your Squarespace journey and make the best website possible using everything Squarespace has to offer. The features you need to create your site are all in one place with Squarespace. Showcase everything about you and your personal brand with a customizable website designed to attract clients and grow your business. Get paid on time with professional invoices and online payments, plus streamline your workflow with built in appointment scheduling and email marketing tools. Squarespace also makes it easy to include video content on your website. Check out squarespace.com wtf for a free trial and when you're all set to put your new site out in the world, use offer code WTF to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com WTF offer code WTF. I will tell you right now, and I mean it. Houston is my favorite city in Texas I can't exactly explain why, but there's something about the vibe in Houston that I like. The way the city is laid out in the surrounding areas of downtown. But also at some point in time, someone with a lot of money put a lot of it into art and into making great museums into a lot of public art. And it was just every time I go there, I'm like, this is like, this is like a well rounded city. It's huge. I think it's one of the most diverse cities, certainly in Texas, but maybe in the country you can get all kinds of great food there. Indian food, Asian food, you know, Middle Eastern food. It's just a very densely populated and very diverse city. But the art, the art always gets me, man. And I, and I always go back when I'm there to the Rothko Chapel, which is a very special place. It was something that Mark Rothko did. I don't know I could have. I wish I had the brochure in front of me or the information, but he was contracted or was in alignment with this non denominational group who built this chapel that he had done. There's probably about 10 huge Rothko paintings in there, huge panels that are basically surrounding you in this small chapel that is almost a place for meditation. And I'd read about it years ago and I know that there was a problem with it earlier on where because of the quality of paints he used, they were starting to fade. But all the paintings have been restored. And the last time I was there, it was, it was just mind blowing for me because I'm a huge Rothko guy. Nobody got right up against the big empty. Like Rothko and his abstractions for me are the, they're. They're the real portal into know true abstraction, into true. Sort of like a kind of mind altering experience with pure painting. And the first time I went to the Rothko Chapel, I was kind of stunned and a bit overwhelmed. And this time I went back and it was really a different experience. I took Blair there, she had not been there. And we sat with the paintings for quite a while, probably 20 minutes, half hour. And you could just spend the whole day in there really, because as you sit there, something seems to happen with your brain in the paintings. At first you go in and they're not quite defined in any way because they all are very dark and some of them almost appear to be one color. But there is some geometric elements in a couple of the panels. But you have to sit there for a while until they kind of come into focus. And start doing their magic of transporting you to a place just outside of. Of regular consciousness and maybe pretty far outside regular consciousness or normal consciousness or your consciousness, depending on what you let your brain do with them. But there was something about this time that I had not done last time, is that, you know, I know Rothko was a depressive. I know he's a heavy cat. You gotta be pretty heavy to have the confidence and skill set to do the type of painting he did. But I started to realize this time that I visited the chapel that these were very dark. And the place it takes you is. Is not. It's a spiritual space. And I wouldn't say that you're kind of looking into the abyss, but it's close. There is something about the. The tone of the work where it. It does take you out of yourself and into a kind of transcendent zone. But I started to realize, like, I don't know if this is spiritual light. Like, I don't know if we're heading into the light. I think he's creating a space at the edge of darkness, and it's not a uplifting space. It is maybe a meditative space. But then I realized, like, he committed suicide. And I was curious this time, but these were some of the last paintings he did before he just crumbled. And I'm like, I don't know if this is. If you look at it that way, if you frame it contextually, historically in relation to Mark Rothko, if this is really an uplifting experience. I think these are. These panels are not necessarily a cry for help, but certainly a hello to the darkness. So my experience there, though spiritual, was. I wouldn't say uplifting, if you know what I'm saying. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp, folks. Good transition. We're at the edge of the abyss, spiritually at the edge of the abyss. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Let's talk numbers, folks. Traditional in person therapy can cost anywhere from 100 to $250 per session, which adds up fast. And a lot of times that can be enough to stand in the way of people getting the help they need through therapy. With BetterHelp, you can save, on average, up to 50% per session. You pay a flat fee for weekly sessions, and it's all done online. You get quality care at a price that makes sense and on a platform where you can do it from anywhere. I think of therapy as something necessary for my life. Not a thing I need in an emergency, just something that helps me Stay Grounded and BetterHelp can become a regular option for you, helping you keep your mental health in good shape. With more than 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform. Plus, switch therapists at any time. Your well being is worth it. Visit betterhelp.com WTF to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E L p.com WTF also in Houston, I reached out to Mo Amer. Mo Amer who I had on recently. He's got the show. Mo, Palestinian, American comic, lives in Houston and what a great guy. Mo Amer. There's something about people that were brought up in a close knit community, close to their family, where they just have a certain, you know, they put a premium on hospitality and also just being decent people. I mean, Mo showed up at my house with a bottle of Palestinian olive oil that is really the best olive oil I've ever had in my life. He brought a gift which is so nice. And I've noticed this from certain ethnic groups that, that people are part of who have come on my show. Koreans, Egyptians, they bring gifts and it's something that I'm not good at and it's something you should do. Like if you show up at someone's house, you know, if you're invited somewhere, you should bring a little something. I guess it's, it's common knowledge. I don't always register it and I always, you know, a lot of times I make excuses. Like for instance, I texted Mo in Houston and he's like, he had things to do, man. I mean, him and his wife were going to go out and celebrate her birthday that night. And I was only in town for one day and he was, and I just, I just texted him to ask him for some food wrecks, you know, an Indian restaurant, maybe a Middle Eastern restaurant. And Mo just texted back like, come over, come over, we'll make some falafel, you'll hang out, you'll meet, you can meet my wife and my son. And I'm like, yeah man, I'm gonna do that. I'm coming over. And I went over there and I brought nothing because I didn't have any time. But I feel bad about it now cause his wife made these amazing falafels from his, from Mo's mom's recipe or his grandmother's recipe. Best falafel I ever had. They got a beautiful garden. There was vegetables from the garden. There was, you know, they whipped up some tahini sauce and it was. And we just Sat and talked and laughed. Told some comic stories. He showed me around the garden, around the house. I met his young son and his wife was just amazing. And they were going out in a couple hours. I just couldn't believe the hospitality of it, and it was so warm. And it definitely made me feel connected, not just to my community, but to a city and to comedy and to, you know, friends. I just can't speak highly enough about being human and treating other humans with respect and love and, you know, just. I don't know, man. I've been really kind of hung up on this lately. And just getting out in the world with the. With the people and talking to people and spending time with your friends in real time, having real conversations and eating good food and just, you know, focus on that. Stay in touch with your humanity, will ya? All right, so Kamau Bell is, as I said, he's a regular guest on this show. If there. If there are regular guests, he's one of them. And he's touring right now. He'll be in San Diego this Friday, Saturday and Sunday at Mic Drop Comedy. You can go to wkamaubell.com for the rest of his tour dates and locations, and I'll be doing a conversation with him at south by Southwest on Wednesday. Wednesday at 4pm at the Austin Convention Center. And it was good to catch up with Kamau. And you can listen to that now. The fact that we don't do video. Oh, yeah, It's a different game. But oddly, we've noticed that some people are coming back around to audio.
[16:56]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[16:57]
Marc Maron
So we're like. We're part of the new analog craze.
[16:59]
W. Kamau Bell
Which makes sense for you that you'd be like, you're the vinyl of podcasting.
[17:04]
Marc Maron
I'll take it. Yeah, it's fine with me. I never wanted to be at the. I didn't want to be in the Gladiator Arena. I'm fine on the second stage.
[17:11]
W. Kamau Bell
No, for sure. And I see you're doing things where you put photos in and stuff and like, when you promote the thing you put, like.
[17:18]
Marc Maron
Oh, sometimes on Instagram when they do that. Yeah, that's. That's a guy. I'm not. I'm not.
[17:24]
W. Kamau Bell
I know it's not you on your phone. Like, we find a good picture of Conan O'Brien as a baby.
[17:28]
Marc Maron
Yeah, I'm not. I can't do that shit.
[17:30]
W. Kamau Bell
No, you shouldn't.
[17:31]
Marc Maron
It just. It takes too much time, and I don't know how to use time anyways. I mean, the weird thing that people don't realize about self employment is that you never stop.
[17:39]
W. Kamau Bell
No.
[17:40]
Marc Maron
And it's impossible. I mean, but you got a bunch of kids, so, I mean, they demand attention.
[17:45]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[17:45]
Marc Maron
So I imagine it's, you know, it's a tough choice between the phone and the kid, but usually go with the kid, I imagine.
[17:51]
W. Kamau Bell
Well, no, one of the saddest things I can hear from my kid is, dada, can you put the phone down? And I'd like to say I've never heard that, but I've heard that.
[17:59]
Marc Maron
You know, I don't.
[18:00]
W. Kamau Bell
Can you look at me? Can you look at me?
[18:01]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Oh, really?
[18:02]
W. Kamau Bell
He says that it's been on occasion, you know, big news story breaks and you're like, whoa, I gotta keep up with this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I'll be right there. I gotta.
[18:12]
Marc Maron
But that's a good question, though. Do we have to keep up with this?
[18:15]
W. Kamau Bell
No, no, we don't have to. So I feel compelled, I guess. My wife says it all the time. I was like, I feel compelled to keep up with it.
[18:23]
Marc Maron
No, I do too. You know, and there is a, you know, once you're, you've been in the political racket for a while in terms of covering it one way or the other, and once you're locked into the narrative and you kind of know the players and you got a basic sense of how it works, which I only have a basic sense. I couldn't tell you how Congress works in depth.
[18:45]
W. Kamau Bell
Well, it's funny, I feel like there's always somebody on TV who's a congressperson who I've never seen before, and you're like, I feel like I know who these people are.
[18:52]
Marc Maron
Well, there's a lot of Congress.
[18:53]
W. Kamau Bell
I was gonna say there's just a lot of them. So they're just.
[18:54]
Marc Maron
Yeah, but just in terms of the politics of Congress, the politics of the Senate, the going back and forth, you know, the sort of nuances of the relationship between the three branches, which is all being disrupted now and probably never gonna be the same. I don't know that stuff. But I can follow a narrative and the truth, the matter is, is that the depth at which I'm following it, it doesn't matter if I'm seeing it as breaking news. Yeah.
[19:19]
W. Kamau Bell
It's not like it's not going to come back to you, Mark. You missed it.
[19:23]
Marc Maron
Yeah. And it's not going to change my life.
[19:25]
W. Kamau Bell
No.
[19:25]
Marc Maron
Other than whatever I'm going to do with my head, which is not good.
[19:28]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[19:29]
Marc Maron
Well, this is it. This is it. A lot of that. But it's over.
[19:32]
W. Kamau Bell
Yep.
[19:32]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[19:33]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[19:33]
Marc Maron
And then that just fucks up your day. And then your kid's like, you know, you put the phone down, he's like, why are you crying?
[19:37]
W. Kamau Bell
Exactly.
[19:41]
Marc Maron
Or why.
[19:42]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, why are you yelling at your phone? Yes. Right. Yeah. I mean, I think that I just suffer from the. Because I'm sort of try to be, you know, in that instant response thing to keep the algorithm fed that like, you feel like I gotta get a thing out about a thing that just happened so I can keep the. Yeah, again, you've reached a velocity that is in a different place.
[19:59]
Marc Maron
Not really. I just do this on the mic, you know, I don't engage with the trolls or on Twitter or, you know, even on Blue Sky. It's just because for me it was, it was, it's, it's a, there's a futility to a number one, it's relatively self serving. And then, you know, the hundred to 200, even to 5,000 replies you get, all you did was make them feel better or pissed off at you.
[20:23]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[20:24]
Marc Maron
But ultimately, in terms of traction or having an impact, you know, the best you can do, I guess, is make people feel better for a second.
[20:30]
W. Kamau Bell
Exactly. Yeah. Make people feel seen. And, you know, and I know that the, There is value in that because it's because of the way this, all this stuff, nonsense works is that the more you can sort of, the more I can be out there sort of like making people feel seen or heard or whatever. Then when I go, hey guys, can you watch this thing that I just made so that my kids can keep eating that? They go, oh yeah, he's been around. Yeah.
[20:53]
Marc Maron
Can you watch this thing for money?
[20:54]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[20:55]
Marc Maron
Cause I need you to watch this for money.
[20:56]
W. Kamau Bell
Can I you buy tickets to my, to my tour? Can you buy tickets?
[21:00]
Marc Maron
Yeah, well, I've been having some. There was a big shift in my approach to, I think, performing during, you know, in whatever is happening now versus the first Trump administration. And in terms of, you know, what, what, what, what, what's, what's required of me, you know, in relation to my audience. Because you get to a certain age where you're like, all right, this is my audience, you know, for better, for worse. Yeah, you, you know, they're grownups, they're thinking people, they're terrified. And there is that element of not just feeling seen, but when you do a show and I imagine you feel the same way. This is a community service.
[21:41]
W. Kamau Bell
Yes. Yeah, yeah. People expect more than just the laughs.
[21:44]
Marc Maron
Well, it's not even A matter of expectation. They're literally in a room with like minded people. Depending on what your audience is, let's say 500 or more, which never happens. Laughing at things that they understand and want to laugh and need relief from. Because you have to assume that no one's out there doing the civil actions. Every day they're on their phones or freaking out with their loved ones or freaking out on their phones with other people. And all of a sudden there's 500 to 1,000 of them in a room together. And I think that's the important part.
[22:17]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. And I think the thing that I feel especially now is the responsibility to, yay, we're all here. Let's laugh. I have a way of saying things in a way to make you feel better about things or enlightening you or whatever, blah, blah, blah. But also, then my job is to be like, also, here's some things you need to go do once you leave here.
[22:31]
Marc Maron
Oh, you do that?
[22:32]
W. Kamau Bell
I do that, yeah.
[22:33]
Marc Maron
Do you hand out pamphlets?
[22:35]
W. Kamau Bell
Just QR codes, Mark. It's QR codes. You don't.
[22:38]
Marc Maron
Do you hold up a board with a QR code on it?
[22:40]
W. Kamau Bell
I think about getting a tattoo so I can like. Yeah, right here.
[22:43]
Marc Maron
This is the link to all the things that you can.
[22:45]
W. Kamau Bell
All the things.
[22:46]
Marc Maron
The actions that can be taken.
[22:48]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, all the things. I literally have that in a link tree and have a friend who. Yeah. Who put it together for me because I feel like I have to encourage you to do like, what other.
[22:56]
Marc Maron
Those things.
[22:58]
W. Kamau Bell
So what's the list?
[22:59]
Marc Maron
Maybe I should have it.
[23:00]
W. Kamau Bell
It's just a list of subjects that if you should. That if you're interested in, like you can. You can always find in your area, if you find. If your immigrant rights organizations always help. There's an organization called Donor Shoes that I'm on the board of that just supports public schools.
[23:13]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[23:13]
W. Kamau Bell
And you can just give them $25 and feel like you did something right there. If you Google mutual aid in your area, you can always find organizations that will just take stuff.
[23:21]
Marc Maron
Right.
[23:22]
W. Kamau Bell
Will just take your things.
[23:22]
Marc Maron
Sure.
[23:23]
W. Kamau Bell
And so I feel like those. Those three areas I feel like are the areas that we, especially living in California, that are the most impactful immediately. And not like go to. Maybe go to a protest maybe. But that's not actually the thing. And then. And then figure out what do you do for a living? This is what I tell about time, where. And figure out what you can do from your job. So you don't actually have. It's not always about Going somewhere? What are you doing at your job?
[23:44]
Marc Maron
But, but what's, you know. Yeah, I, I can understand all those things, and those seem to be things that would, you know, help and make people feel like they were doing something. And, you know, I don't. In terms of protests, they sort of have to be organized and, you know, there is a leadership around and they seem to happen. But I guess my concern is, as time goes on here is that, is that we're being terrorized and, you know, in terms of speaking up or making a stand at work, I mean, you know, and this is going to happen at all levels of, of liberal intention that people are going to be afraid for whatever reason, whether it's physically or that they're gonna lose their job.
[24:29]
W. Kamau Bell
But I don't think it's always about, like, speaking up at work. It's also just about there are people at your work who could use your support that you maybe aren't thinking about right now. I don't mean in like a. Like stand on the table and flip stuff over, but like, you may work with people who are, who are undocumented or of your status, and there may be a way you can go, hey, what do you need?
[24:46]
Marc Maron
What can I do?
[24:46]
W. Kamau Bell
I need a casserole. You know what I mean? Like, I think that. I think that we get too caught.
[24:50]
Marc Maron
Up in, like the casserole with a passport in.
[24:52]
W. Kamau Bell
Exactly, exactly. I think we get too caught up in the big, giant things. And it's like most of it is like, for example, there's all this boycott talk about boycotting Target and boycotting Walmart because they divested out of dei, they throw all their DEI stuff away, and people are like, boycott. And people think boycott is just a magical Harry Potter word.
[25:14]
Marc Maron
I'm cynical about it. I've been publicly cynical about boycotts.
[25:17]
W. Kamau Bell
Well, I think I've sort of been like, well, if it's a boycott, you know, it has to be organized. So, like, I think obviously I want the Montgomery bus boycott. Like, they boycotted the bus systems, but they also made sure people had rides to work in school.
[25:27]
Marc Maron
Right.
[25:27]
W. Kamau Bell
Because you can't just say boycott the bus system and leave people.
[25:30]
Marc Maron
And also, if you're going to boycott Target and what, Walmart?
[25:35]
W. Kamau Bell
Walmart.
[25:35]
Marc Maron
So what are your options, Amazon?
[25:37]
W. Kamau Bell
Well, for a lot of people who live in parts of the country, that's the qu. That's the thing is, like, that's the store. They killed all the mom and pop stores. Sure. So a lot of black activists are like, we can't just Say boycott, like, it's the same. And we can't say boycott without. How do you make sure people get what they need if they don't go to those places?
[25:51]
Marc Maron
Yeah, you got to find some alternative shopping situation, for sure. And also, when you go to stores that aren't those stores, it's hard to get what you want. Sometimes it's a little more. They're always telling you, like, oh, just order it online.
[26:05]
W. Kamau Bell
Well, and I think for me, like, it's just, like, I'm going to try to, like, you know, I'm in the position where, like, I can shop at bookstores in my neighborhood that I'm paying more than I would at Amazon, but it just feels better. You know what I mean? I can do that, but not everybody.
[26:18]
Marc Maron
Can do that, you know, you also can do. Just ask the publisher for the book. You're at that level now.
[26:25]
W. Kamau Bell
Do you know who I am?
[26:26]
Marc Maron
Yeah, you don't even need that. They know who you are.
[26:29]
W. Kamau Bell
I like to say that for, like, Disneyland and amusement parks.
[26:32]
Marc Maron
Oh, that's where you're gonna use the hookups.
[26:33]
W. Kamau Bell
That's where I use the hookups. Cause that's a lot. I got a lot.
[26:35]
Marc Maron
I get a lot of books.
[26:36]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. I get books sent to me that I'll buy books.
[26:39]
Marc Maron
You know, I bought that How Fascism Works book.
[26:41]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[26:41]
Marc Maron
Yeah. And the joke I made about it was, I'm about halfway through, but I can just read the news now and get the other.
[26:45]
W. Kamau Bell
Exactly. Constantly updated.
[26:49]
Marc Maron
It's happening. They're adding the second half.
[26:51]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[26:53]
Marc Maron
But let's. Let's talk about this. I. I know that there was some press lately, and I don't know where you. What happened or. Or what the follow through was. I mean, but you. You chose to honor your dates at the Kennedy Center.
[27:11]
W. Kamau Bell
I had one day at the Kennedy center on February.
[27:13]
Marc Maron
And you did it.
[27:14]
W. Kamau Bell
I did it.
[27:14]
Marc Maron
And this was after everyone pulled out.
[27:15]
W. Kamau Bell
Well, no, this is why I think the algorithm is so funny, because I have people approaching me now on the street, literally saying, like, are you gonna do that date still? Are you gonna. I did. It was two weeks ago. You know, so, like, the algorithm has confused people about what the default is.
[27:26]
Marc Maron
Oh. So it hadn't happened yet.
[27:28]
W. Kamau Bell
So the date has happened. But, like, what happened was, like, I was in. On the flight headed to D.C. as Trump announced he was taking it over.
[27:36]
Marc Maron
Okay.
[27:36]
W. Kamau Bell
So it was like nobody had pulled out. Cause it had just happened.
[27:39]
Marc Maron
But you were able to speak about it.
[27:40]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. So I. So I was like, the Kennedy center reached out to me, because they were like, they would have understood if I was canceling. But the whole premise of Trump saying, I don't want woke stuff in there, I was like, well, then he doesn't want me.
[27:52]
Marc Maron
Right.
[27:52]
W. Kamau Bell
So I'm gonna go be as woke as I can be.
[27:54]
Marc Maron
Right.
[27:54]
W. Kamau Bell
To me, that felt like, there's different ways to do this. There's the way of, like, I don't want to give you my services, or there's a way of, like, I'm gonna go in there and be as and be the thing you don't want me to be and in the space you don't want me to be at. Sure did that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[28:06]
Marc Maron
But. But it hadn't really set in yet. It wasn't a revolutionary act relative to things that had already unfolded.
[28:17]
W. Kamau Bell
No. So when I was headed there, Shonda Rhimes had pulled out Ben Folds, and they're on the board. They didn't have dates there. And then Issa Rae had an event that was sold out, that was later in March, and she canceled. And so when Issa Rae canceled, there was a little bit of people coming, like, why aren't you supporting? Issa Rae Canceled.
[28:34]
Marc Maron
Yeah. But, like, you know, when I read about your take on. Seems to me that the thing would be to go into those spaces and do your thing, and then if they pull you off stage, then you've done some sort of act of not even civil disobedience, but protest against the dominating cultural ideology.
[28:58]
W. Kamau Bell
And there's a sense of, like, I was like, I'm going to go, and they're going to have to lock me out. If they don't lock me out, then I'm going to really make sure I do that. I really sort of pay it, like, sort of, like, channel the spirits of Lenny Bruce, Dick Gregory, and do it the way that. And there's Also, like, there's 1500 people who came to the thing who live in D.C. who are being like. Who are experiencing whatever we're experiencing about dc. They're on the front lines of it.
[29:21]
Marc Maron
Sure. Trauma every day.
[29:22]
W. Kamau Bell
And the people who work there the same. They needed a shit. Like, they, like, needed what I do, and I'm not trying to make it.
[29:28]
Marc Maron
Well, that's the interesting thing, man, is that people do need it because, you know, there's not a ton of. I just don't think that, you know, monologue jokes, by and large, are enough to. To kind of take the air out of this thing in a show.
[29:45]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[29:46]
Marc Maron
Do you know what I mean? Like, I Have found that going up there and saying, look, you know, at least spend 15 minutes saying, look, I'm in the same place you are. Mentally, I'm experiencing the same powerlessness and hopelessness and fear. This is my reaction to it, which generally is funny. And you know, I've got a couple of bits and then the shift in my presentation as a comic has become like, now I'm going to entertain.
[30:12]
W. Kamau Bell
Yes. Yeah.
[30:13]
Marc Maron
And I've never really been that guy.
[30:14]
W. Kamau Bell
Oh, yeah.
[30:15]
Marc Maron
But like, I've really kind of focused on like, we'll get this out of the way. We're all on the same page. And now, like, I've got some entertaining things to do. I never looked at myself as an entertainer. I know I don't think that I necessarily changed my material, but I tell a 20 minute story about evacuating with my cat. So that's pretty funny.
[30:32]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. And I think for me that night, and I didn't know what the plan. I'm writing backstage trying to think of maybe say this because there's all this stuff that's happening. And then later it was like as it was written up, the first 20 minutes was basically just like, hey guys, we're here. The Kennedy Center. Give it up for the people in the back. I made jokes about, I say, you know, after United Shades, I say thank you to my sir. Thank you for your service to everybody. Like not just, not just military people. So thank you for your service. If you're working here right now. Sure. And. And there had been a protest out front, a dance protest of drag queens. And I went out there and hung out with them and I gave it up for them and, and sort of like just said, we're here in this now, doing this, and had jokes. But some of them were just sort of at that point just ill formed statements.
[31:11]
Marc Maron
Sure.
[31:12]
W. Kamau Bell
But it made everybody sort of like settle and realize that I'm with, I'm in this with you. Right. And now I'm going to tell you about my kids, you know, and then.
[31:20]
Marc Maron
That's right. That's exactly right. Now I'll do the bits.
[31:22]
W. Kamau Bell
Now I'll do the thing that I came here to do that.
[31:24]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[31:25]
W. Kamau Bell
And I was a little bit afraid that they. People be like, get back to how democracy is falling. But they actually want to hear about the kids. They don't want to just stay in that place.
[31:32]
Marc Maron
Well, yeah, they want to know that you're on board, but like, you know, that sort of thing. I wonder about that too, man. You know, because after doing Air America and Kind of plowing through the first Trump era that when you're a public person who they assume has a voice. And I tried to keep my politics pretty personal in the sense that I will speak up against fascism because we're living in it, and we've almost been in it many times, and now it's here. But I'm not gonna sit there and deconstruct the fucking news. I'd rather put a gun in my mouth.
[32:06]
W. Kamau Bell
You're not Morzal with the newspaper?
[32:08]
Marc Maron
Well, no, I mean, you can do that, but what newspaper? You know, like, I mean, it's not even that. It's just that, you know, with somebody who has a microphone that, you know, it's a different show and different set of chops to be into the news cycle every day.
[32:24]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[32:24]
Marc Maron
And what are you then? Because I know you can get into a certain mania with that stuff to where you're not even humanizing it.
[32:31]
W. Kamau Bell
No. And I think that for me, this is where I sort of had this idea of like, I'm not actually, like, these are the parts of it I care about and have jokes for. I'm not going to. I'm not going to go through the news with you.
[32:42]
Marc Maron
Right. Yeah.
[32:42]
W. Kamau Bell
Because I don't think I have takes that are like, somehow, like, here's where. Here's where. I don't have, like, takes like that, you know?
[32:48]
Marc Maron
Yeah. I mean, we don't have time, you know, even if you're touring a lot to go. Like, do you guys see Jim Jordan today?
[32:54]
W. Kamau Bell
Unless something really funny happened with Jim Jordan.
[32:57]
Marc Maron
Yeah, maybe half the crowd side. Yeah, that's the other thing that, like, you know, all these people that are. And I talk about this in my production producer a lot that are still sort of speaking about this as if it's a. A presidency.
[33:09]
W. Kamau Bell
Yes. Yeah, that.
[33:10]
Marc Maron
It's sort of like, when are you guys gonna.
[33:12]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, that's my.
[33:12]
Marc Maron
Wake the fuck up.
[33:13]
W. Kamau Bell
That's my main thing to be like, you know, after the Elon Musk Nazi salute, I'm like, okay, we have. If we can't be clear about this, we're doomed. Yeah.
[33:20]
Marc Maron
You're sitting there going like, you know, you can be like Bill Maher. It's like, well, I'm gonna agree with some of the things that Trump is doing. I'm not. It's like, dude, you're a bitch.
[33:28]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[33:32]
Marc Maron
You know, Kid Rock. I like Kid Rock.
[33:34]
W. Kamau Bell
And it's like, I like that one song. Yeah.
[33:36]
Marc Maron
And now you're gonna blow him with a slightly disdainful look on Your face. And that's. That's who you are.
[33:45]
W. Kamau Bell
There's a whole generation of comedians who have been confused about the fact that they're smart for comedians and thinking that means that they're smart generally. And I think that, like, there's just a whole bunch of comedians who have been sort of like heralded for their hot takes and political. And they're not. There's just. Yeah. For a comedian you're doing a good job, but it's not. You're not doing a good job for a person who thinks about this stuff.
[34:05]
Marc Maron
Right. But, you know, there's this spectrum of comedian, like comedians. Sure. This or that. But like, you know, early on, I think you responded to that post I did about again, you know, if you're a useful idiot.
[34:17]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, yeah.
[34:18]
Marc Maron
You know, it's like you gotta own that.
[34:21]
W. Kamau Bell
Exactly.
[34:23]
Marc Maron
And either, you know, you are and you're in it for the grift or you don't.
[34:28]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[34:28]
Marc Maron
Or you just believe that shit. Which is fine. But even believing that shit at this point, it's like, well, this is fundamentally anti Democratic. And then I'm working on this bit about how like these bold freedom of speech warriors who have now finally got the right to speak power to truth. What courageous freedom of speech warriors. Yeah. Perhaps they can make truth just run away.
[34:56]
W. Kamau Bell
I believe the winners are correct.
[34:58]
Marc Maron
Yes.
[34:58]
W. Kamau Bell
Oh, yeah. So that's. Yeah. And I would be. I was. So I'm not, you know, the whole Rogan's fear of comedians under him who are like, proud to show up and sit at the inauguration and like, dude, you've just been bought and I don't think you even sold yourself for that much.
[35:13]
Marc Maron
Well, I don't. Yeah. It's very hard for me to understand it, you know, with like, first of all, with sociopaths. I talked about this with Brendan that, you know, I'm like, do they believe it or do they know it's a grift? And he said, sociopaths believe what they're saying, you know, which is disturbing. I'd rather them be just, you know, pitch men.
[35:31]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[35:32]
Marc Maron
Or I'll say no politics enough to know what they're angling for, even if it's about money. But, you know, but some of these comics, the guys that, you know, are apparatchiks. There's only like three or four of them, but there is a bunch of people beneath them who use their juice.
[35:50]
W. Kamau Bell
Yes, yes, yes.
[35:51]
Marc Maron
For. For their audience. Now for me, it's sort of like I couldn't even imagine performing for that Audience. I could do it. I've done it before. I go out into the regular rooms. I. You know. But I. I assume that they all think, you know, I'm some sort of woke fuck, which I am, mostly. But you're also.
[36:08]
W. Kamau Bell
Nobody can question your comedy bonafides either.
[36:11]
Marc Maron
No, I know that, but I don't necessarily. Even if I feel like, well, fuck it, I'm going to see it as a challenge, and I'm going to make these animals laugh. It's like, what's the victory there?
[36:23]
W. Kamau Bell
That's my whole point. That's my whole point in my return to comedy at this point. I didn't do it for five years.
[36:29]
Marc Maron
You didn't?
[36:30]
W. Kamau Bell
I was out for five years.
[36:31]
Marc Maron
Five years.
[36:32]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. Yeah. So, like, when Covid hit, I thought, maybe I'm really out. Because I was like. I'd been out for a couple of years at that point.
[36:37]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[36:37]
W. Kamau Bell
I started doing, like, doc.
[36:39]
Marc Maron
Like, well, I remember the documentary, the Cosby documentary. Then you had the CNN show, right?
[36:42]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, yeah. So I was, like, working.
[36:44]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[36:44]
W. Kamau Bell
And, like. But just. But when. And so when I was home, I'd be like, I don't go out and do stand up because I'm not home that often anyway. And so I thought I was retired, but then when I came back, part of what sort of, like, I had to wrestle with was like, I don't want to go to the Punchline on Sunday nights and stand in the back. Like, I don't want to, like, do it that way.
[36:58]
Marc Maron
Why would you have to do it that way?
[37:00]
W. Kamau Bell
Because that's what I think. That's what I. Comedy. You have to go to the club and you have.
[37:03]
Marc Maron
No, but I mean, but why would you stand in the back? You could get your spots.
[37:06]
W. Kamau Bell
No, but you know what I mean? Like, but I just. I didn't want to do it. I didn't want to leave my house.
[37:10]
Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah. For the 15 minutes.
[37:11]
W. Kamau Bell
For the 15 minutes to, like. And you spent all day. Like, I think I'm glad I did that, but I just was like, then I had to go, well, if you're not doing that.
[37:18]
Marc Maron
But Now I'm, what, 50 or 45?
[37:20]
W. Kamau Bell
You're 50. 52. That, like. And I don't. I want to be. If I'm out of my house, I want to be really productive. I don't want to be hanging out. Right. So I had to sort of decide, like, it's okay to not do it that way. And so I just started booking, like, this an hour. The Berkeley rep had, like, a small 60 seat theater.
[37:37]
Marc Maron
That's what I used to do with Dynasty. You want to put together the hour.
[37:40]
W. Kamau Bell
And so I would do. I did like an eight week ticket. Yeah, yeah, Yep. Eight week Regency. I didn't even make money. I just wanted to like, have a place to go.
[37:46]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[37:46]
W. Kamau Bell
And then I. That went okay. And then I went back and did two shows on Saturday and it was 4 and 7 because I'm. Because I'm civilized.
[37:53]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[37:53]
W. Kamau Bell
And like, that's where I sort of got the hour back. Was like, okay. Because I was doing it my way. I was like, I still haven't like gone to the club to do a small set. I just like, I just, it's not for me, you know.
[38:02]
Marc Maron
Well, I do that for a very specific reason.
[38:05]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, well, you're like, you're. Again, you, you, you've done all the, like, you've done that work, you know.
[38:10]
Marc Maron
Yeah, well, I mean, that's why I do it is. It's like keeping shape, you know, Like, I can go out and do my hour and a half or whatever with. With my people, but I want to go hammer it out with the general public.
[38:22]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[38:23]
Marc Maron
To get my reps in. So when I do go out to my people, I'm like, I'm sharp and see, it's funny.
[38:28]
W. Kamau Bell
I think I feel the opposite. I'm like, let me go mess around with my people and then I'll get it sharper there for the general public. Like, I will sort of like, oh, I'll do all the exploring here. And then I'll be like, oh, that piece can work for the general public maybe. Yeah. And maybe not. And that's why I have nine jobs. That's why I have not put all my chips on stand up comedy. Yeah.
[38:47]
Marc Maron
It's weird to take. And I recall this from, you know, the first Trump administration. When you're doing general crowds, it, you know, whether it's in your head or not, it takes another set of balls to fucking plow through some of that stuff.
[39:00]
W. Kamau Bell
Well, I'm playing the next club. I'm playing like, I'm doing mostly theaters, but about to do like a regular weekend at a club in San Diego, the Mic Drop Comedy Club.
[39:09]
Marc Maron
I don't.
[39:09]
W. Kamau Bell
Regular. Yeah. No, I didn't know what it is either.
[39:11]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[39:11]
W. Kamau Bell
But I was like, that's a regular club with a Friday night second show and it's 10 o'clock and you know, it's San Diego and it's just like, I'm gonna find out some things you're.
[39:20]
Marc Maron
Gonna do the hour.
[39:21]
W. Kamau Bell
I'm gonna do the hour. Maybe I'll do the 45 minutes. Maybe I'll, you know, maybe that's when I bust out some of the old stuff. You guys remember.
[39:28]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Maybe they.
[39:29]
W. Kamau Bell
Taco Bell with the little dog. Yeah, that dog.
[39:32]
Marc Maron
That was kind of racist.
[39:35]
W. Kamau Bell
So I'm actually more nervous about that than I was at the Kennedy center, like, because it's like.
[39:39]
Marc Maron
Of course you are.
[39:40]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. It's not.
[39:40]
Marc Maron
It's like, the trenches.
[39:41]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[39:42]
Marc Maron
Yeah. I mean, doing that, like, when I'm working on an hour, there's some markets I don't, you know, do theaters in, and there's a couple markets that I. I shouldn't be now, but. But I'm doing it, but. But I'd go do all the clubs and that kind of two shows Friday, two shows Saturday, show Thursday, you know, that second show Saturday where I get kind of. Kind of like. Yeah, you get loose and a little weird. Yeah. But there's still a thrill to that.
[40:09]
W. Kamau Bell
No, I think I, you know, I came up in that world, but I think I wouldn't have been able to build up. I wouldn't have been able to if I was just going out and doing showcases.
[40:17]
Marc Maron
I couldn't build the hour.
[40:18]
W. Kamau Bell
I couldn't build the hour.
[40:18]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Because you can't do it in pieces.
[40:20]
W. Kamau Bell
No. And you can't sort of like. I know I'm lost here, but I got to be lost to find out where I'm trying to get to. So. Yeah.
[40:25]
Marc Maron
Yeah. I find that a lot of times you do the hour and you're, you know, outside of, you know, being older, you basically. You run in the same circles, you know, in terms of your thought.
[40:36]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[40:37]
Marc Maron
That you. Kind of restating things you've said before with the. With today's spin.
[40:43]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. Well, that's the great thing about having taken such a break is that I have a lot of stories that have happened in the last five years, so I don't feel like I'm, like, scraping the barrel. I'm like, no, there's a.
[40:51]
Marc Maron
With three kids, you're, you know, and how old's the oldest?
[40:54]
W. Kamau Bell
Thirteen.
[40:55]
Marc Maron
Oh, so you got stories for another 10 years.
[40:57]
W. Kamau Bell
Exactly. Yeah. She's. She's about to go to high school, so it's just getting started. The good bits are on their way.
[41:02]
Marc Maron
Sure. Yeah. It's all going to happen. Who. Who was this guy?
[41:05]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[41:06]
Marc Maron
Get your angle on that.
[41:07]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, I got my angle on that. I got to tell her. When she was 12, she told me something of one of the boys in her class. Done. That was stupid. And I was like, hey, from the ages of 12 to 30, boys are just trash. And so you should just know that. And then I told other people, and other women were like, it's older than 30. I was like, yeah, I know. But I didn't want to bum her out for always. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe. Maybe they will always be trash.
[41:27]
Marc Maron
Yeah. But, like, I mean, who the fuck is the Kennedy center going to book? How many times could they book Tim Allen in Kid Rock?
[41:35]
W. Kamau Bell
That's the question. And the people who work here.
[41:36]
Marc Maron
Or does he even care if it. If it stands empty?
[41:39]
W. Kamau Bell
Well, no, they. No, they definitely believe. I know from people who are there. Who's that? They have been called to by the people who are running it. Like, they want more Christian acts and more country acts.
[41:49]
Marc Maron
Right.
[41:50]
W. Kamau Bell
Which is funny because it's like, I know it's the Kennedy center to you, but it's actually really just a venue in D.C. no, of course. And D.C. is not. You know, if you want to move the Kennedy center to Branson, Missouri, you can do that, but you're not. But D.C. is a place where there are more drag queens that we're probably going to perform there in a year than country music acts, you know, and not that they don't do country music.
[42:08]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[42:09]
W. Kamau Bell
You know.
[42:09]
Marc Maron
Yeah, the Christian acts. It's interesting, I guess. People have been telling me there's these rock stations that fool you. You're like, what is this song? And all of a sudden, it's a. It's a warship song.
[42:18]
W. Kamau Bell
It's often like, you. When. When you. We're like, why are they saying you like that? I love you? Like, it's very. Like, not just a girl. It's not a girl at all. Not a girl at all. It's. It's. It's the big. It's the big U. It's the capital. Yeah.
[42:31]
Marc Maron
The value.
[42:32]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, yeah.
[42:32]
Marc Maron
Thou. The holy. Thou.
[42:35]
W. Kamau Bell
But, yeah, like, Rihanna, Giddens canceled. And I get it. Like, if you're. I think a comic is in a unique position where you can speak directly to what's going on. Where, if you're a musician, you can, but it's not really what you do. And especially if you're a comic like us, you can literally go, I'm just gonna talk, and we'll get to the jokes later.
[42:51]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[42:51]
W. Kamau Bell
And so I think that I was in a unique position, but people want to put you on one side or the other. And I'm like, no, I'm old Enough to remember and to have learned the civil rights movement wasn't. Sometimes it was about boycotts and sometimes it was about sit ins and sometimes it was about spontaneous action. It's like it's not just one thing.
[43:07]
Marc Maron
Yeah, but I do, like, maybe I've gone off the edge with my cynicism around civil disobedience and protest, but I'm having a hard time sort of fathoming how we can have an impact on this juggernaut other than state politics and working class people who are fed up.
[43:33]
W. Kamau Bell
Well, I think one way. First of all, every time I see a group of old white people yelling at their congressmen, but that's the only.
[43:40]
Marc Maron
Ones who are left to do it. Because they call, of course, because they're.
[43:44]
W. Kamau Bell
The last ones to believe. They're the ones who always think the system's on their side, even though there's evidence to show them that the system.
[43:49]
Marc Maron
But they're also the ones that were at the old protest and at the January 6th.
[43:54]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, but I think the fact that those people are so clearly angry this early about what's going on is a sign of like a sign that things could get better. But we need to like invite those people in and not freeze them out because they.
[44:08]
Marc Maron
Are you talking about conservatives?
[44:10]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, I'm talking about conservatives working conservative.
[44:12]
Marc Maron
Okay. Because I thought you were talking about old hippies that show up.
[44:16]
W. Kamau Bell
No, no, no. They're going to show up. I'm not talking about. I've been at that. I went to that protest couple weeks ago in Berkeley. It's great. But it's not the one that moves the needle. The one that was the needle is these white maga hatted people who are getting older who are like, you're fucking my Social Security.
[44:29]
Marc Maron
Well, I think they, they just bought into the, the, the grievance buzz and assume that, you know, he was talking shit.
[44:35]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[44:36]
Marc Maron
Or, or assume that the, the shit he was talking didn't have an impact on them.
[44:39]
W. Kamau Bell
Well, I think everybody has a thing about like, you're not talking about me. If you're saying something bad, you're not talking about me. And I think that's what it was. And now they realize, no, they were talking. He is coming after your not coming after woke Social Security. He's coming after your Social Security.
[44:51]
Marc Maron
Well, if they can figure out how to come after woke Social Security, they will.
[44:53]
W. Kamau Bell
They will. But they, but also they really don't care about the, those, those white people. And those white people are finding out. So for me, the fact that those People have turned so early is a good sign.
[45:03]
Marc Maron
Well, yeah. And also they don't care if they die.
[45:06]
W. Kamau Bell
No, for sure. And there's going to come a point which we're going to have a number to point to that's like this many people died because of this thing that they did. Like, so if they, if they screw up somebody, Social Security, if there's people who will miss one check and die. You know what I mean?
[45:17]
Marc Maron
Sure. I mean, there's already people dying, you know, all around the world.
[45:20]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[45:21]
Marc Maron
Because of the denial of aid. I mean, how is it not going to happen here? Through Medicare, Social Security, you know, government funding, farm subsidies. I mean, people are going to fucking die.
[45:33]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. So I just think that, like, those, the more we have people like these white MAGA people who are realizing they're getting screwed over, the more that all these Trumpers start to see that, like, wait, you've seen this happen. Wait, Elon can do a Nazi salute, but if I do it, I get fired? The more you start to learn you're not like them, they're not like you, and they're not gonna help you get your job back when you get fired for trying to be like them.
[45:57]
Marc Maron
I got a good joke on that. I think you'll like it. I just, I put my hand up with the Heil Hitler and I go, this is right wing virtue. Signal the lady.
[46:08]
W. Kamau Bell
That's exactly what it is. It's exactly what it is.
[46:10]
Marc Maron
It's exactly what it is.
[46:11]
W. Kamau Bell
Steve Bannon did it. You could tell he just did it because he's like, I guess throw one in. Yeah, guess we're doing this now.
[46:16]
Marc Maron
Throw one in. A little nervous about it.
[46:18]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. I don't really feel great about it, but I'm trying to get daddy's attention.
[46:21]
Marc Maron
And also I'm half responsible for it.
[46:23]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. I didn't know I'd go this far this quickly.
[46:25]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[46:25]
W. Kamau Bell
And also I thought I'd be more in the seat of power. I'm outside the house, trying to get back in.
[46:29]
Marc Maron
Oh, he'll get back in.
[46:30]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[46:30]
Marc Maron
I think, don't you?
[46:32]
W. Kamau Bell
I mean, I think Trump, Trump goes through people.
[46:34]
Marc Maron
Yeah. You know, what is your personal level of fear on a day to day basis?
[46:41]
W. Kamau Bell
So I'm super happy that I live in Oakland. Like, I just want to be clear about that. Like, and talking to my kids the night that Trump won, there was a whole talk about, like, well, we. While this is bad for the country, we are fortunate that we both live in. We live in California, we live in the Bay Area, and we live in Oakland. It feels like it just gets more and more protected as we get there.
[47:00]
Marc Maron
So what's Oakland like now?
[47:02]
W. Kamau Bell
I mean, Oakland, like, every city is going through it, but it has been really used as a way to, like, the doom loop stuff out of San Francisco has been sort of the idea that, like, the city is falling apart. It is definitely going through it, but it is not. It is a doom loop.
[47:14]
Marc Maron
The doom loop has hit Oakland.
[47:17]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. Yeah. The tales of the doom loop.
[47:19]
Marc Maron
Well, what is the doom loop?
[47:20]
W. Kamau Bell
Essentially, just the idea that, like, there is no opportunity.
[47:23]
Marc Maron
The vacuum of tech money.
[47:25]
W. Kamau Bell
The vacuum like people left in the pandemic.
[47:27]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[47:28]
W. Kamau Bell
Like, basically, people left the Bay Area after the pandemic, but the housing prices didn't come down.
[47:35]
Marc Maron
Yeah. And there's a lot of empty real.
[47:36]
W. Kamau Bell
Estate, and there's a ton of homeless people. Like, it just every. You know, like, there's a ton of encampments all over the city.
[47:42]
Marc Maron
Right.
[47:42]
W. Kamau Bell
So it's like, you can see the poverty in a way that, like, people who grew up in Oakland their whole lives are like. Yeah, it was. Maybe it was more violent when I was a kid, but it wasn't this desperate.
[47:50]
Marc Maron
It's almost like the. The. The tenderloins spread like a cancer.
[47:54]
W. Kamau Bell
Yep. Yeah. Yeah.
[47:55]
Marc Maron
So throughout the whole city.
[47:57]
W. Kamau Bell
So, like, I mean, Oakland's mayor was just recalled, so we're just. Oakland's going through some. Barbara Lee, who was the. Who was our congressperson running for mayor, so that. It's definitely going through some transitions, but it's still a great place for me to raise my family. I wouldn't go anywhere else.
[48:09]
Marc Maron
Yeah. And do you get involved in city politics?
[48:12]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, actually, just I. In a way that, like, I'm. I was helping a group where. I'm with a group of activists and filmmakers. Boots Riley's one of them, where we're trying to.
[48:21]
Marc Maron
How's that guy doing?
[48:22]
W. Kamau Bell
He's doing exactly the same. Boots is like. He's working. He's making a new TV show. I don't know how he sells these weird projects to people and makes them, but Boots is not. He has new hats every now and again. Yeah, I think. But he's literally. Yeah, yeah. He literally has new hats, but he's never. I've never been like, man. Boots seems to be going through a rough time, but it's like, our kids both dance at the same dance place, so we see each other.
[48:43]
Marc Maron
Yeah, he's a hustler.
[48:44]
W. Kamau Bell
He's a absolute hustler.
[48:45]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[48:46]
W. Kamau Bell
And so, yeah, we're on a board of a group called Cinemama. He invited me to. On the board of local artists who are, like, trying to figure out how to make Oakland a more livable place for artists and filmmakers. And so, yeah, so I had to work with some people in the city to get Oakland to pass the same sort of tax incentives that you get in, like, Toronto so that. So that it's affordable to film in Oakland.
[49:04]
Marc Maron
Oh, really?
[49:05]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. So we got them pass. It's just the city's too broke to really do anything with it. But, yes, I'm. For the first time in my life, I've actually, like, done the kind of organized organizing I always wasn't doing, like, the, like, let's go to meetings and let's go.
[49:16]
Marc Maron
And you've picked a specific area.
[49:18]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, like, that's this thing about picking the area. I'm not going to solve the crime problem. But if we could get Hollywood, if we could make it easy for people to film here, that's jobs.
[49:27]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[49:27]
W. Kamau Bell
So it's like, it's. And that's. And it also gives people who live here a way to stay.
[49:31]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[49:31]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[49:32]
Marc Maron
And what about just, like, in terms of your being the fear level, in terms of going out on the road or any of that shit?
[49:39]
W. Kamau Bell
I mean, there is definitely, like, before even Trump dropped out of the. Before he even took over the Kennedy center, they called me at one point, and we're like, we're gonna hire security. And I know whenever I get that call that, like, something has happened, you know? So I know that, like, we live at a time where a guy like me who's out here calling Nazis Nazis just has to be more aware of what I'm doing. You know what I mean? And so I am aware, luckily, like I said, because I live in Oakland, I feel safe wherever I go in Oakland. I feel like the city's got my back. But, like, you know, I don't travel with, like, a team of people. You know what I mean? So. Which in some sense, I think has helped because people don't expect me to be walking around places, but, like, yeah, it's definitely a thing where I'm aware that, like, you know, me and my wife talk all the time about, like, sometimes I'll say things, and she'll see the Internet, get upset, and, like, this Kennedy center thing, and it's like, she's just like, whew. Like, there's a sense of, like, this could come home to us. You know what I mean? And we've gotten hate mail. Not in a While. But there's times we've gotten hate mail and stuff and so it's just the thing.
[50:35]
Marc Maron
When you were on cnn.
[50:36]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, when I was on cnn, yeah. Because I was just lumped in with the whole crew.
[50:39]
Marc Maron
So.
[50:39]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. So, you know, I'm aware that like I could turn down the volume on some things just to make things easier on myself, but I just don't have it in me to. I wouldn't know how to. I wouldn't know what I would be doing otherwise.
[50:52]
Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get nervous and scared because of that. That once you walk out of the venue, you're kind of on your own.
[51:01]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, yeah. After the show you sort of like. And the thing that I also have is like I can feel like there's a lot of. Especially because a lot of security. People are black often. And they will be like, they will take extra care. I feel like I'm getting extra care because they know what I'm going through when I'm out there doing, you know. Yeah, yeah. So it's like, it's a thing. Sometimes I can feel people like. No, no, no. Like really like watching out for me in ways just to.
[51:22]
Marc Maron
Oh, that's good.
[51:23]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. No. Who knew that I would be considered. I'm also in my. As. As a gray haired, 52 year old man. I'm in my UNC years. So people see me as like the old guy who like, we gotta take care, we gotta protect him. You know what I mean? So.
[51:35]
Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a pillar of the community.
[51:37]
W. Kamau Bell
I'm a pillar of the community now.
[51:38]
Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[51:39]
W. Kamau Bell
I was. I always said it's funny, I was never a G, but I get to be an OG just because I didn't die. Sure. I was never cool enough to be.
[51:45]
Marc Maron
A G. He's got the stories.
[51:46]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, I got the story now I got some stories. So. But yeah, I mean I got three kids and we, you know, we did a doc that they were in and me and my wife talked about a lot about is this, should we do this? And it's just, you know, it's a constant negotiation of like, what should I be doing, how much should we be doing, how much I'll be putting them out there. You know, there's a constant negotiation about what? My. How to move through the world.
[52:08]
Marc Maron
Yeah, right. But do you ever get to that point where you're like, look, you know, I'm just going to worry about my life. Fuck this other shit.
[52:18]
W. Kamau Bell
No, no, like I wouldn't. I. Yeah, I wouldn't I don't mean to be like, that's not how I was raised. But I just. The career that I've chosen is. There's not a just worry about my life version of this.
[52:31]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[52:31]
W. Kamau Bell
Like, the way that I've chosen to do my career, you know, I could have life. Yeah. It would have been much easier on me as a human to not make a four hour documentary about Bill Cosby. Yeah, it would have been much easier.
[52:41]
Marc Maron
What was the pushback on that?
[52:43]
W. Kamau Bell
I mean, a lot of. I knew going in a lot of black people. Like, I will run into black people on the streets, like black dudes especially, who are around my age, who are like, brother, I liked everything you did, except for that. Da da. And who will like, sort of like, want to read me the riot act about that thing?
[52:57]
Marc Maron
Oh, why? Well, why'd you have to throw him under the bus?
[53:00]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, yeah.
[53:01]
Marc Maron
Well, I mean, wait, what about that dude? You know, that guy who did the OJ Doc?
[53:05]
W. Kamau Bell
Oh, yeah, he's good. Yeah, he's great.
[53:07]
Marc Maron
Yeah. I mean, he must have taken a lot too, but he's.
[53:09]
W. Kamau Bell
Ezra's like a ghost. You don't see him. Like, he's. I'm out there in the streets. Like, I'm out there like, shake, I'm running for king of show business. Where Ezra's just like. Yeah, where he is.
[53:17]
Marc Maron
It was the work.
[53:18]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, yeah. He just.
[53:19]
Marc Maron
I think he's in New York.
[53:20]
W. Kamau Bell
Well, yeah, and he. And he just. That he's that nine hour Prince doc that's never going to come out.
[53:23]
Marc Maron
Why?
[53:24]
W. Kamau Bell
Cuz the Prince people don't like it.
[53:26]
Marc Maron
Oh, really?
[53:26]
W. Kamau Bell
It's nine hours. It's a Netflix nine hour doc about Prince and in classic Ezra fashion. Fashion. It was supposed to be like a five hour doc and he made a nine hour doc.
[53:35]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[53:35]
W. Kamau Bell
And they don't like all the things he went into, so it's apparently not going to see the light of day and it's finished.
[53:40]
Marc Maron
Wow.
[53:41]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[53:42]
Marc Maron
Nothing he can do. Not willing to change it.
[53:44]
W. Kamau Bell
Not willing to change it. I think, yeah, he could do a lot. He could, like, he could cut it down to what they want. He could take all their notes. Yeah, he's not doing that, so. Yeah.
[53:50]
Marc Maron
And what do you make of that? That you get pushback on Cosby?
[53:53]
W. Kamau Bell
I understood it. I mean, like I said, as a, as a dude who grew up in that era, I know what people are invested in Cosby and I know that, like, I get the black perspective of like, we have to stick together. Like, I get it. But it's also like. But not if one of us is hurting us.
[54:07]
Marc Maron
Right.
[54:07]
W. Kamau Bell
You know, So I didn't. It wasn't surprising. And I sort of imagined all the worst things that could happen. Like, I think it's one of the great things about being a comedian is having an active imagination. So I knew somebody's going to put out a thing that we need to talk about W. Kamau Bell. Because that was. We need to talk about. Cos. And that happened on YouTube. Somebody put out a. We need to talk about W. Kamal Bell. And. And I saw all the comedy things, all the black comedy things that I watch on YouTube watching about black comedy. They. They didn't agree with me. Like, I was like, oh, yeah.
[54:32]
Marc Maron
For that reason, what do you got hit one of our own for?
[54:34]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. Yeah. Or, you know, the white man sets you up. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, so. But one of the great things about being older is, like, I stand by the work. I know it's good. And unless you help me raise my kids, I don't really give a shit. Like, I just don't. I don't have. I used to really care about other people.
[54:47]
Marc Maron
Is that weird to develop that callous?
[54:50]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, Like, I just don't have time to. Yeah.
[54:52]
Marc Maron
But then why. You have moments of regression and you're for sure. God, what did I do?
[54:55]
W. Kamau Bell
Well, no, sometimes you get caught up in a thread. Oh, God. But, like, generally, like, it's like, I just. If I don't see it, if I just, like, like, YouTube was like, do you want to see this? Who needs to talk? We talk about W video. No, I don't want to see that. So, like. But yeah, I just. And, you know, there's still over time, it's been a net plus because I think more people are happy that we had the conversation. Also with, like, Diddy going down, it's just very clear that showbiz is ugly and we need to get rid of the ugly parts, you know?
[55:19]
Marc Maron
Yeah. And what. What do you make of the black Maga?
[55:23]
W. Kamau Bell
I think they're. The tales of the Black Maga are highly exaggerated. I think they're. It's. There's way more talk about them than there actually is them, you know, So I don't.
[55:32]
Marc Maron
They get one guy.
[55:33]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[55:33]
Marc Maron
Who's out of his mind, anyway.
[55:35]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. Yeah. And those guys don't last very long. Like, they don't. So. Yeah. I think that, like, still, black men voted for Kamala Harris in, like, it's like 87% or something.
[55:43]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[55:43]
W. Kamau Bell
It's Just. Which is way higher than white women, white men. So I think it's like, it is a talking point that people like to use because we like to try to figure out how to blame it on black people somehow. And it's a good way to shame black people.
[55:54]
Marc Maron
Or is it blame? Or is it like, look, we got some.
[55:57]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, we. Well, no, they also. They need to have some. Yeah, they need to have. They need to have that guy, the black friend. Yeah, Yeah. I was on Instagram and this guy came after me talking about something I said, and I realized he was the black gay guy who was at a MAGA event and got kicked out and called the N word. And he was a MAGA guy at a MAGA event, and they bullied him out of the event, and he's still a MAGA guy. And I'm like, aren't you that guy who got. He's like, yeah, all right, man, take care. He's like, I don't need to. We don't need to debate anything. You have. You've shown me who you are.
[56:28]
Marc Maron
Yeah. And it's a pathology that's beyond politics.
[56:31]
W. Kamau Bell
No, no, it's definitely about, like, something with your family. Yeah. There's something broken. And I'm not going to be mad at you, but I'm not going to. You know, I'm well beyond, like, debate me, bro. Like, I'm not going to debate you on the.
[56:42]
Marc Maron
That's another line I do on stage now. It's so. Look, I know. You know, look, you're my audience. We're all broken, but we, bro.
[56:47]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, exactly. That's a good.
[56:51]
Marc Maron
We're not douche bags. We're empathy whores.
[56:53]
W. Kamau Bell
Exactly, Exactly. That's all I want, is empathy. Yeah. So I don't. You know, I think black. Black MAGA is a convenient way to not really attract the problem of, like, it's actually white people. It's just.
[57:04]
Marc Maron
But also, when it comes right down to a black or white, you realize that a lot of these guys are in it for the money, man. You know what I mean? It's like, you know, like, I'm above this shit.
[57:15]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[57:15]
Marc Maron
You know, sure, I'll play for these people.
[57:17]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[57:18]
Marc Maron
I'll play to them. I'll play of them. That's the questionable one.
[57:22]
W. Kamau Bell
But that's the funny thing is, like. But it never. The grift doesn't ever last is that long.
[57:27]
Marc Maron
But does any grift?
[57:29]
W. Kamau Bell
No, Some grifts, I mean, I guess. Yeah.
[57:31]
Marc Maron
They supplement.
[57:32]
W. Kamau Bell
There's. There's some grifts that are, like, you know, like, eternal. Yeah, yeah.
[57:35]
Marc Maron
Eternal grift and the New Testament.
[57:38]
W. Kamau Bell
I'd say the white grifters get a longer grift window. That's all I would say. Like, you know, Bill O'Reilly got a real long grifter window. Tucker Carlson got a long grift window, Glenn Beck. But the black grifters generally don't get that long of a window. Like, they don't get the. They don't get 10 years of grift.
[57:52]
Marc Maron
It's interesting about the grift because, like, I think at the core of it is that they don't give a fuck.
[57:57]
W. Kamau Bell
No.
[57:58]
Marc Maron
About people, about anything but their ability to stay in that zone of wealth and privilege.
[58:05]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. And you got to fake it till you make it. There's a lot of. Like, if I pretend I'm on this side, I will. Somehow my net worth will come up to be on this side. And I think that. And I think they're relying on the fact that most people. We're the people who pay close attention. Politics are a small percentage of people.
[58:23]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[58:23]
W. Kamau Bell
So you don't actually have to have facts and figures to convince anybody.
[58:26]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[58:26]
W. Kamau Bell
He's got to have vibes.
[58:27]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[58:28]
W. Kamau Bell
So, like, I think they just rely on the fact that. Especially now that the. So much of the MAGA movement is tied into manhood and masculinity and the Andrew Tate thing. And so it's like. It's all tied into, like, being a man and being a provider, and it's like. And so it's not even tied into politics.
[58:46]
Marc Maron
Yeah. But it's also about exploiting the sort of fundamentally male frustration of a lot of young guys that have no game. And, you know, whatever they're aspiring to is mostly just, you know, fuck you. I'm gonna make you pay for this.
[59:00]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. But these guys have no game. And I. Speaking as a person who did not have a lot of game, you're de. Gaming yourself.
[59:06]
Marc Maron
Well, I didn't have a lot of game, but with a certain part of the culture, I had some game.
[59:13]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. No, for sure.
[59:13]
Marc Maron
I wouldn't say it was a game appliable to any situation. It wasn't a broad game.
[59:19]
W. Kamau Bell
It wasn't soccer. It was highlight. Exactly. It was a very specific game.
[59:24]
Marc Maron
Very specific game. Yeah.
[59:26]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. My game didn't travel well, so. Yeah. I just think that, like, you have like, been. You know, like, there's been all, like, Andrew Tate is the greatest example of this. Like, you are pretending to be a person that you're Not. You're also a sex trafficker. And you're telling guys, if you pay me thousand dollars a month, you will just. That will help you be more like me. But really, all I want is thousands of dollars a month. And there's no being like me because I'm not real.
[59:48]
Marc Maron
I asked somebody about an audience for Jordan Peterson.
[59:52]
W. Kamau Bell
Oh, yeah.
[59:52]
Marc Maron
And they said it was the weirdest audience ever saw it. They. They characterize it as being like nerdy guys with clearly escorts. And I'm like, yeah.
[60:04]
W. Kamau Bell
When you see the, the, the distance between the two people is like, this is somebody's. This is a credit card exchange.
[60:09]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[60:09]
W. Kamau Bell
You're going to get a receipt at the end of the year.
[60:11]
Marc Maron
That's right. Yeah.
[60:11]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[60:12]
Marc Maron
So what are you telling your kids? The ones that can understand.
[60:15]
W. Kamau Bell
Well, no, 13, 10, and 6, they all can understand on some level.
[60:19]
Marc Maron
What. What are the principles that you're in? Imbuing. Is that the word?
[60:24]
W. Kamau Bell
No, that's. Yeah. Because it's funny, I was thinking about. We don't. Like, we didn't. My wife grew up Catholic. I grew up just black Christian, whatever that meant.
[60:30]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[60:30]
W. Kamau Bell
But we both did a lot of church and mass and stuff, but our kids don't do that. We just didn't do that with them because my wife didn't feel like we have to take them to Catholic mass. A sensitive, thoughtful person.
[60:39]
Marc Maron
So that's like. It's scary.
[60:41]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So. But like, we certainly. One of the big things we talk about is just gratitude because I think my kids get to see and do a lot of things and that they wouldn't get to do if not for my career.
[60:52]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[60:52]
W. Kamau Bell
And it's really important to me to like, sort of actually be like. Just to be clear, you don't deserve this. You know, like, you know, you did. Like I said, I use my. I use my celebrity status to get us into Universal Studios. Like, you know, just cause. It was like, just cause. And so. But then at the end of the day, like, this was a great thing we did. We got. These people are nice. Da, da, da, da, da. Don't walk around like a jerk because you got to go to Universal Studios.
[61:12]
Marc Maron
Right.
[61:13]
W. Kamau Bell
And so for me, gratitude is a big part of it. And also that we talk about it literally. It's our family job to try to make the world a better place. That's just like, you know that. That's because we have.
[61:23]
Marc Maron
Is there a checklist?
[61:25]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. Starts with cleaning your room.
[61:28]
Marc Maron
It starts with, like, making your bed.
[61:30]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. Making your bed. Yeah, yeah. Not that I'm even great at that. But it does start with like, like doing well in your area and then going out in the world. And like, you know, one of the best things as a dad you can see is when your kid helps somebody out in the world without you saying anything to them. Yeah.
[61:44]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[61:44]
W. Kamau Bell
Like, so for me, it's like seeing my kids do that and seeing like Sammy, like, you know, you. I got mixed race kids, so I feel like some stuff I can't like, let go on. Said so I was like, look, if you see a black woman in the street, you smile at her. Doesn't matter if you know her or not, you smile at her, you nod at her, cuz she's going to see you. And she wants to know that you see her back. And yeah, you say hello, you say hello, you nod, you call him ma'am.
[62:05]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[62:05]
W. Kamau Bell
You know, like so to be like, this is a part of what it is to be in our community.
[62:09]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[62:10]
W. Kamau Bell
You know, so like we went to Alabama last year and hadn't been at Alabama in years because of COVID And I was like, look, every black woman you meet is gonna think that you're. They're gonna think they've known you. Said you're a baby and you've never met them before. And you just gotta like, understand they're going to hug you and kiss you like you. This is what it is. I can't, I can't let things go unsaid that I might if they were black kids growing up with two black parents.
[62:30]
Marc Maron
Right.
[62:30]
W. Kamau Bell
In a black neighborhood.
[62:32]
Marc Maron
Right.
[62:33]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[62:33]
Marc Maron
Oh, so do you have family in Alabama?
[62:35]
W. Kamau Bell
My dad lives in Mobile, Alabama.
[62:37]
Marc Maron
Really?
[62:37]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[62:38]
Marc Maron
Forever.
[62:38]
W. Kamau Bell
It was. Yeah. Born and raised there, has lived other places, but is always. He really likes being a big fish in a small town. Like, he really likes.
[62:45]
Marc Maron
What kind of fish is he?
[62:46]
W. Kamau Bell
He was an insurance guy. So he like, he was the insurance commissioner for the state of Alabama at one point. So he's like a really, like, he's a guy that people go, when are you going to run for mayor? But he's, he's like, he's a really big fish in that town.
[62:56]
Marc Maron
Really?
[62:57]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. Yeah. Walter Bell.
[62:58]
Marc Maron
Oh, wow.
[62:59]
W. Kamau Bell
Walter Bill.
[63:00]
Marc Maron
There you go.
[63:00]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. So he's. So only in the last 10 years have I caught him in that town. Like now people say, oh, I saw your son. Like now he's. Was my dad, but for years I was his son.
[63:09]
Marc Maron
Oh, yeah. Oh, wow.
[63:11]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. Yeah.
[63:11]
Marc Maron
So you're, you're kind of like, you got an extended family of people who know who you are there.
[63:16]
W. Kamau Bell
Oh, yeah, for sure. That, like, if I go there, it's not about. It's. I saw you on tv, but I also saw you in your diapers and I know your grandmother and.
[63:23]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[63:24]
W. Kamau Bell
And I know. And people who are like, come out, good to see you again. And I'm like, I have no idea who this person is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's good to see you again, too.
[63:31]
Marc Maron
How they all. They all holding up down there?
[63:33]
W. Kamau Bell
I mean, Alabama is such a funny place because they're just. They're not. They don't expect much because it's Alabama.
[63:39]
Marc Maron
Well, that's an interesting idea in terms of, you know, what is scary in terms of community.
[63:47]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[63:47]
Marc Maron
Right.
[63:48]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[63:49]
Marc Maron
Yeah. I imagine, like, because, like, you know, panicky white liberals are different than, you know, dug in black communities in Alabama.
[63:57]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. The governor always hates us. Like, you know, so, like, it's not like, it's not new for the governor. It's like occasionally we get a nice. A nicer Republican governor. Right now they have a bad one.
[64:07]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[64:08]
W. Kamau Bell
K. Ivy.
[64:09]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[64:09]
W. Kamau Bell
Who they call Meemaw. But yeah. Like, the governor always is against us. They're always taking from us.
[64:13]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[64:13]
W. Kamau Bell
So we always have to figure it out on our own.
[64:15]
Marc Maron
Right. Right.
[64:16]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[64:16]
Marc Maron
And it's more like, here we go again.
[64:18]
W. Kamau Bell
Here we go again. Yeah. So it's like, it's not like a big. And I have to get along with. With MAGA people because I couldn't. I wouldn't be able to talk to people if I didn't talk to MAGA people.
[64:26]
Marc Maron
Right. But. But in some ways, not to be stereotyping, but, you know, that dynamic is. Is. Has been there forever.
[64:35]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[64:35]
Marc Maron
In one form or another.
[64:36]
W. Kamau Bell
South for sure. For sure.
[64:37]
Marc Maron
And I'm not even sure that the people that they're dealing with, however you want to label them, are fundamentally any more racist.
[64:46]
W. Kamau Bell
No, it's just a different style.
[64:47]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[64:48]
W. Kamau Bell
It's like.
[64:49]
Marc Maron
It's just different hat.
[64:50]
W. Kamau Bell
I always say it's like every place in America is racist. It's just, you got to. If you're lucky, you get to live in the place where you. Where you fit with the style of racism. If you're. You get to pick.
[64:58]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[64:58]
W. Kamau Bell
You get to pick. Like, I couldn't do Boston racism. No.
[65:01]
Marc Maron
Because then, you know, with another part of the city.
[65:04]
W. Kamau Bell
Exactly. Yeah.
[65:05]
Marc Maron
Like, you don't even know where they live.
[65:07]
W. Kamau Bell
They still call black people slurs. I don't know. Like, they still got the old ones. The real old what?
[65:12]
Marc Maron
Yeah. The Irish Ones.
[65:13]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. The Irish ones. I, you know, in Alabama, I like to go down. I love going to Alabama and feeling comfortable down there, but I wouldn't live down there.
[65:19]
Marc Maron
Isn't that fucking interesting, though, that. That in what are stereotypically the more racist regions of the country, they're much more integrated places.
[65:28]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. Because they had to get along because they were like, yeah, working. They were working together. I'm putting in air quotes. They had to, like.
[65:33]
Marc Maron
Not everybody could go to Chicago.
[65:35]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, exactly. You couldn't be so racist as a white person that you didn't want to talk to black people. You had to talk to them because you needed to tell them what to do that day and also.
[65:43]
Marc Maron
Or. Or, you know, fulfill their order.
[65:45]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. Yeah. You had to, like. Like, there's a. Yeah, you had to sort of know how to be around. So there's much more, you know, much more closeness, weirdly, in the south, like New York City, where everybody goes into their apartment and looks down.
[65:58]
Marc Maron
What was your experience in Boston?
[66:00]
W. Kamau Bell
I was. I lived in Boston when I was.
[66:01]
Marc Maron
A little kid because I lived there for years.
[66:04]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. No, I, I. Boston was places where, like, I can go, but it's not. It's like a childhood memory of a place.
[66:09]
Marc Maron
Oh, right, right.
[66:10]
W. Kamau Bell
But it's funny, but, like, I. I live there enough that, like, people from Boston feel like, ah, I knew you were one of us. Oh, yeah, yeah. Like, I met. I met Matt and Ben affle.
[66:20]
Marc Maron
Oh, yeah, yeah.
[66:21]
W. Kamau Bell
And they were like, ah, you're a Boston guy. Like, sure. Not.
[66:24]
Marc Maron
Not that Boston.
[66:25]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[66:26]
Marc Maron
Boy, those Affleck guys can really turn on the Boston.
[66:29]
W. Kamau Bell
They sure can. They sure can.
[66:31]
Marc Maron
They're funny, man.
[66:32]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. No, it's. It's. So, Yeah, I. So. But I'm. But again, moving around a lot as a kid, I'm. That's why I think I sort of feel like I understand this country in a way that a lot of people. People don't, because I saw a lot of it.
[66:40]
Marc Maron
Sure.
[66:41]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[66:41]
Marc Maron
And are you taking your kids out in the world?
[66:43]
W. Kamau Bell
For sure. Yeah. I just. I took them to D.C. last summer.
[66:46]
Marc Maron
I took him to show them all the things.
[66:48]
W. Kamau Bell
I showed him all the things.
[66:48]
Marc Maron
What, is he gonna. With the museums, too?
[66:50]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, he's gonna. With the museums. Yeah. Like, I think he's. I think he's gonna. He's gonna. I think he's only gonna not fuck with things if they don't come across his desk, but I absolutely think, like, the national. The African American Museum there is this incredible, unbelievable. It's just this incredible. I took my kids there and it was like. I saw it when it first opened and I was like, I gotta bring my kids here. And I'm so happy. I waited because they all appreciated on different levels and we like, they would have stayed and when I was a kid, I would have done. I didn't like museums were different too, but like. Yeah, so, yeah, he's gonna. I sort of wonder what happens theoretically.
[67:22]
Marc Maron
On a policy level. He could close the whole place down because it's too woke.
[67:27]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, no, for sure. He could just. Or just make it harder to deal with. Like we're gonna like, you know, change the hours or we're gonna charge money. Cause they're all free. But they could just decide now it's going to be $50.
[67:39]
Marc Maron
How are they not saying that is the capital of dei?
[67:42]
W. Kamau Bell
Well, I know the guy who runs that museum and I sort of want to reach out, be like, hey, man, what's.
[67:47]
Marc Maron
Yeah, how you handling.
[67:48]
W. Kamau Bell
Need anything I can do for you? Leave me to send out a tweet or whatever or something. Yeah, because I just feel like.
[67:54]
Marc Maron
What the fuck was their email? What was the email to that place? Stop your DEI post.
[67:58]
W. Kamau Bell
Exactly. We need more white. We need more. Well, they'll just tell the slavery story differently. They live together, you know, they got slaves, got free room and board.
[68:09]
Marc Maron
You got to do that as a bit.
[68:11]
W. Kamau Bell
That's true. They'll just change because the lower level now is super depressing.
[68:16]
Marc Maron
Oh yeah, yeah, Just switch it from the. To make it the white person's point of view.
[68:22]
W. Kamau Bell
Hi, I'm Kid Rock here to tell you about slavery.
[68:25]
Marc Maron
Yeah, that's a funny bit too.
[68:27]
W. Kamau Bell
That's funny. No, I think that like. But yeah, like the funny thing, the cool thing is my middle kid is 10 and so she's at the age now where I took her on the road with me. One time I had a gig in and like at Colorado State University and like, I think it's in Fort Collins. And then I gig in Portland at a podcast and I just took her with me on the road.
[68:44]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[68:44]
W. Kamau Bell
And it's like a 10 year old on the road with you and it was great. Yeah, like it was.
[68:48]
Marc Maron
It was just learning things.
[68:50]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, learning things and figuring out airports and how to like. And also like. No, we have to stay here because we got to go here and. Yeah, yeah, you'll be on stage, you'll sit here and like it was. It was really like fun in a way that it's not fun if I go by Myself.
[69:01]
Marc Maron
But by the third night, was she like, yeah, come you do the same thing.
[69:05]
W. Kamau Bell
She gives notes. She does give notes. Last night you said it funnier.
[69:08]
Marc Maron
Yeah, she does do that.
[69:09]
W. Kamau Bell
She does do that. Which I actually appreciate. It's like, well, thank you. You're right. I did say it funnier last night.
[69:13]
Marc Maron
There's that moment where you tell what. Whoever your girlfriend is like, you don't have to come tonight.
[69:17]
W. Kamau Bell
You don't have to. You've seen it. I don't have any new stuff. Or when they ask, do you have any new stuff? And you're like, oh, no, no.
[69:23]
Marc Maron
Maybe one thing.
[69:24]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, maybe it's.
[69:25]
Marc Maron
I'm working.
[69:25]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. Yeah. So it's. Yeah. I take. My kids have traveled a lot, which is great because I think again, it's just the benefit of out of the country too, a little bit, but not as much as, you know, Covid hit pretty early in their life.
[69:39]
Marc Maron
So now, how do you see the effect of it on them now?
[69:43]
W. Kamau Bell
So my six year old, I think it's just very clear that she was not socialized at the age where her sisters were. So I talk about my act. My joke is that she's feral.
[69:52]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[69:53]
W. Kamau Bell
Like, but she's really, like. She just didn't just. There's a whole generation of kids, like, when you go to her first grade class, it's just a little bit chaos and it's not the teacher's fault, but it's a whole kids who. Who at 2 years old weren't mixing up with other kids.
[70:05]
Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah.
[70:06]
W. Kamau Bell
So I think that.
[70:06]
Marc Maron
Oh, you can really see it.
[70:07]
W. Kamau Bell
You can totally see it. You can totally see. I have all my, like, all my friends who had kids who were like, making transitions. Like kids who went from, like, who were going to middle school right when Covid hit or kids going to high school all are a little bit, like, tweaked because their new level experience wasn't the thing they thought it was going to be.
[70:24]
Marc Maron
Well, they didn't evolve into it.
[70:25]
W. Kamau Bell
They didn't. They didn't get to have the, like. Yeah, they're, you know, preteen years.
[70:29]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[70:29]
W. Kamau Bell
My goddaughter who actually write about in the book was like going to college and had a whole plan to go to D.C. and. And then couldn't do all that stuff. So. Yeah, I think there's a whole. We're gonna see the effects of the of on these kids forever.
[70:40]
Marc Maron
Well, I think it had a profound effect on our politics too, for sure. I mean, come on, you know, like, you know, I Mean, that's really where the sides were divided, I think.
[70:51]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. I think that, like, that's when they really dug. It's so weird that you would think Trump wasn't the president. As much as they've talked about. As much as they've talked about how badly Covid was handled, you know, that was you, right? That was like, you know, you did that. You know, the vaccine that you hate, you developed. That was under your administration. So. But yeah, that's when they really.
[71:07]
Marc Maron
But also, like, they dug into the government intrusion. The. I think the van.
[71:13]
W. Kamau Bell
Don't trust the government.
[71:13]
Marc Maron
Well, the vaccine mandates really fucking sealed it for those people.
[71:16]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that, like. And what. I don't know what the other.
[71:20]
Marc Maron
I can't get it through my head. It's like, it, like. I just don't see any other way to spin it. Sure, okay. Pharmaceutical companies make money, but the idea was, you know, people were dying, and this is what we got. And we're trying to, you know, maybe help people not die of this.
[71:35]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[71:35]
Marc Maron
Whether you would or not is not the issue.
[71:37]
W. Kamau Bell
No, it's. It's about the fact that, like. And also, we as a culture have been. Not that we remember, but we've been through this before. It's not like this is the first time a pandemic is hit. Yeah, but because we don't know our history and we don't trust the history books, even if we read them. And because. Because we. We love, for some reason, the coolest thing to be is somebody who knows nothing and ask questions. Look, I don't know anything, but I still have questions, you know, so. And I think that, like, that allowing that person's voice to be as loud as the expert's voice, and that person always going to be louder because.
[72:07]
Marc Maron
Yeah, but the problem is I don't know anything. I have questions. And then someone goes, well, I'll show you what's really happening. Who the fuck knows what that guy's gonna show?
[72:15]
W. Kamau Bell
Well, it's also.
[72:15]
Marc Maron
Usually it's just the Internet and it doesn't go a good place.
[72:18]
W. Kamau Bell
Or somebody goes, I'm a doctor in that thing. You have questions about, and here's all the answers. And you go, but how would you know?
[72:23]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[72:24]
W. Kamau Bell
Who told you?
[72:25]
Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah. Why do you think you're smarter than me?
[72:27]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, I mean, we. Do you realize there's a. Ray, there's a rise in people sort of openly talking about how they don't believe the earth is round. Yeah, that's like. It's like really? Like, people feel more comfortable in talking about something like, well, how would you know?
[72:38]
Marc Maron
Confidently stupid.
[72:39]
W. Kamau Bell
Confidently stupid. Yeah. And I think that, like, because we sort of allowed this, we turned free speech into something that it's not. We feel as a society, we feel like somehow it's limiting somebody's free speech to say, stop saying things that aren't true.
[72:53]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Or that's wrong.
[72:54]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, that's right. What you said is wrong.
[72:56]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[72:56]
W. Kamau Bell
And so we should turn your volume down because it's just wrong.
[73:00]
Marc Maron
But there's no pushback because of this. Separate worlds.
[73:03]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[73:03]
Marc Maron
You know, so, like, you know, they. Their big argument is like, I don't know.
[73:07]
W. Kamau Bell
Well, that's the thing. Even if. But if you put the person like, I like, you know, like, you know, this flat earth guy Rogan had some flat earth guy on was like, told Neil DeGrasse Tyson, I want you to talk to him and debate him. And Neil DeGrasse was like, no, I'm not doing that. Like, I'm Neil degrasse Tyson.
[73:21]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[73:22]
W. Kamau Bell
Like, why would I. Why would I waste my time? But somehow we. And then people go, he's afraid. All right, well, I think we're. I think we're doomed.
[73:30]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[73:30]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[73:33]
Marc Maron
He's. He's. He's afraid to. To. To engage with somebody who will never believe what he has to say even though it's based on empirical evidence.
[73:42]
W. Kamau Bell
He's. He's afraid of wasting his time for no good reason.
[73:45]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[73:45]
W. Kamau Bell
He's afraid of, like, life is only long. This long. You know that guy Neil? Yeah, met him a couple times.
[73:51]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
[73:51]
W. Kamau Bell
He's not like. He's not in my. He's not my phone.
[73:53]
Marc Maron
Not in your world. Not in your phone?
[73:54]
W. Kamau Bell
No, no, no. I have a very small world. He's not in there. I mean, you know.
[73:58]
Marc Maron
So what's the plan now? You're just touring?
[74:00]
W. Kamau Bell
I'm touring through the. Like, we're adding more dates, so I just actually added some southern dates in South Carolina. North Carolina. With the hope of, like, eventually figuring out Charleston. Charleston? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[74:10]
Marc Maron
That theater there.
[74:11]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. Charleston Music Hall.
[74:13]
Marc Maron
Yeah, I'm doing that.
[74:14]
W. Kamau Bell
Oh, yeah. Oh, cool.
[74:16]
Marc Maron
I don't sell great there.
[74:17]
W. Kamau Bell
We'll see. I mean, it's very black, so I think I should do okay.
[74:20]
Marc Maron
Oh, yeah. I'm not getting the blacks.
[74:21]
W. Kamau Bell
Let me. I'll promote your Charleston show. You promote my San Diego show.
[74:24]
Marc Maron
I do a.
[74:25]
W. Kamau Bell
Okay.
[74:25]
Marc Maron
In San Diego.
[74:26]
W. Kamau Bell
Okay. Yeah, I figured you would. So I. I'll let people.
[74:28]
Marc Maron
I didn't even know. I did it was crazy.
[74:30]
W. Kamau Bell
I'll let people in Charleston know you're coming. I have a hook up there. I have a guy. Yeah.
[74:33]
Marc Maron
I don't know why. I. I don't know. I don't have a lot of black fans.
[74:37]
W. Kamau Bell
Well, that's. We, and you. And you. We'll work on that. I'm gonna, I'm gonna actually invest some time into getting you some because you, you would do well with the blacks.
[74:44]
Marc Maron
I think so.
[74:45]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You keep, you keep it real.
[74:47]
Marc Maron
Yeah, I, I definitely keep it real.
[74:49]
W. Kamau Bell
Keep it real.
[74:49]
Marc Maron
I think for some blacks it be like little too real.
[74:51]
W. Kamau Bell
No, no, but the blacks in Charleston are. They're. They're cosmopolitan blacks. So. Yeah, they would like your, your.
[74:57]
Marc Maron
Yeah, I've been doing a lot of red states, man. And I went to Lexington, Kentucky. I went to Louisville, Kentucky. I went to Asheville. That's not so, you know, But I went to Nashville. That was great. And the other places were great. I think the most southern I did was Lexington. And you know, it's. Again, even.
[75:16]
W. Kamau Bell
You do Atlanta though, right?
[75:17]
Marc Maron
Yeah, I do.
[75:18]
W. Kamau Bell
Okay. But no places in Florida?
[75:20]
Marc Maron
No, I don't go far enough.
[75:22]
W. Kamau Bell
Okay, fair enough.
[75:25]
Marc Maron
I just don't go.
[75:26]
W. Kamau Bell
Okay.
[75:26]
Marc Maron
I don't know why. I mean, I don't go to Arkansas.
[75:28]
W. Kamau Bell
Okay.
[75:29]
Marc Maron
You know, I don't. I don't. I. I haven't been to Alabama in a while. You know, I don't tour. I'm not one of these guys that has to hit all the states.
[75:36]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah. You're not trying to hit all the markets.
[75:37]
Marc Maron
Yeah. And some people will travel to see me. And it's not, not because of I'm afraid or anything else. I just don't want the stress of wondering why I'm not selling tickets in Mobile.
[75:47]
W. Kamau Bell
No, you'd rather book a bigger venue in Atlanta and tell people in Alabama.
[75:50]
Marc Maron
You better drive coming up. Yeah, yeah. Or.
[75:52]
W. Kamau Bell
And they are, they're used to that. They're used to that.
[75:54]
Marc Maron
I think so. I, I think they are. I mean, I, I could do smaller venues and I don't even mind doing that. But there's just the idea that, like, because no matter what city you go to, for the most part, if it's a bigger town or city, you know, you got like minded people there.
[76:08]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, no, it's. I did Jackson, Mississippi, which I did years ago, which I was worried about, it ended up being like I became the meetup for every progressive in the 500 mile area. It was like mostly about them meeting up with each other and like we'll watch Kamau's show. But it was like. I thought it was like, it's a great way to get people to come together.
[76:24]
Marc Maron
Sure. That's what I signed at the top.
[76:26]
W. Kamau Bell
Exactly. Let's get some. Let's start to fly. Write some flyers down.
[76:29]
Marc Maron
And, yeah, I do this bit sometimes on stage. I say, I'm not an arena act. And I say, I think I could do one arena if it was centrally located and I can bus people in. And I go. I say, buses leaving out of Whole Foods parking lots for Marin in these cities.
[76:47]
W. Kamau Bell
That's exactly. Yeah. We'll all go to one arena in Nebraska.
[76:51]
Marc Maron
Exactly. It'll work out.
[76:52]
W. Kamau Bell
But no. So I'm doing that. I have. I have this, my substack, which is also called who's With Me? I've spent a lot of time in there. I've sort of turned away from, like, for now, from traditional showbiz and just sort of, like, doing what I.
[77:01]
Marc Maron
How's the substack do?
[77:02]
W. Kamau Bell
It's going great. Really great. Yeah. I was like. I sort of put half effort into it last year and looked up. I was like, wait, this is actually doing really well. And so this year, really, like, sort of pushing it down.
[77:11]
Marc Maron
So you write every week?
[77:12]
W. Kamau Bell
Every week. You know, three times a week, three times a month, basically. But yeah, every week. And. And I have somebody helping me with it, so it helps me, like, proofread stuff.
[77:20]
Marc Maron
Oh, good.
[77:21]
W. Kamau Bell
I'm not saying the wrong thing, but, yeah, I actually love it a lot because it's like a way to keep my brain working and bits come out of it because, you know. Yeah, my latest one, I just was like, how many different insults can I think of for Steve Bannon? And it's like, you know, so it's like a fun challenge.
[77:33]
Marc Maron
Sure, sure.
[77:34]
W. Kamau Bell
And you can interact with the community and you own the audience in a way that you don't on these social media platforms because they sign up for you and you have their email addresses. Yeah, yeah, like this. So it feels more. It's a better way to spend your time online than, yeah, I'm a big. You should come to substack. Let me. I know a guy.
[77:48]
Marc Maron
I write my thing every week.
[77:50]
W. Kamau Bell
But all you got to do is put it on subs. You don't have to change anything. You just put it on substack. They're going to be people who come to you who wouldn't know other than that. You just put this. Just put it on substack.
[77:59]
Marc Maron
Oh, yeah.
[78:00]
W. Kamau Bell
Just put it on substack.
[78:00]
Marc Maron
Okay, same thing.
[78:01]
W. Kamau Bell
You don't have to do anything different.
[78:02]
Marc Maron
Just a couple pages.
[78:03]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah, yeah. It doesn't have to. Some people post like, some people like tweet it, like Twitter where it's just a few long tweets, you know what I mean? But like you already are writing a thing every week. Just put it on substack.
[78:12]
Marc Maron
Yeah, I got like a lot of them. Yeah, yeah, you got to work on that bit about the anti woke black.
[78:17]
W. Kamau Bell
History, about the new exhibits at the, at the African American Museum.
[78:21]
Marc Maron
Exactly.
[78:21]
W. Kamau Bell
See, that's a good one. I'm glad to. I'm glad I got a bit out of this.
[78:24]
Marc Maron
All right.
[78:24]
W. Kamau Bell
Worth it.
[78:25]
Marc Maron
Good seeing you.
[78:25]
W. Kamau Bell
Good seeing you.
[78:31]
Marc Maron
There you go. Kamau Bell again. You can find his tour dates@w kamau bell.com and he'll be in San Diego at Mic Drop Comedy this weekend. Hang out for a minute. Dining out is nice, but it can really break the bank. And while grocery shopping can save you some money, you've got to squeeze shopping and meal planning into your busy schedule. So that's why we're sponsored by Home Chef. Home Chef conveniently delivers fresh ingredients and Chef designed recipes to your doorstep. Users of leading meal kits have rated Home Chef number one in quality, convenience, value, taste, and recipe ease. Home chef has over 30 options a week and serves a variety of dietary needs. Like, for me, I know that there's always something I can get. This week they're offering things like garlic ginger tofu tacos or the chickpea rice pilaf bowl. Those are perfect for me. But there's a lot of meats and cheeses and fish for whatever type of diet you keep. And for a limited time, Home chef is offering WTF listeners 18 free meals, plus free dessert for life and of course, free shipping. On your first box, go to homechef.com WTF that's homechef.com WTF for 18 free meals and free dessert for life. Stop trying to figure out what to make for dinner and open the door for Home chef again. That's homechef.com WTF and you must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert for more of me and Kamau. He's been on five other WTF episodes. Some live ones, a couple short ones, ones from very early on. But he also came on three years ago to talk about the documentary he made. We need to talk about Cosby and go check that out, too. I don't think that anybody in one sort of lump or one sort of context has heard Any of those survivors go at length, unless you were in the courtroom or wherever those things were.
[80:23]
W. Kamau Bell
Or you were their lawyer.
[80:25]
Marc Maron
Yeah. A deposition of some kind.
[80:26]
W. Kamau Bell
Yeah.
[80:27]
Marc Maron
So. And I thought, too, that the natural thing, that natural, natural humanization that happens when, you know, you can sit there and watch somebody talk or tell a story and the nuances of those things. Yeah. I found that to be. You know, I don't even want to use the word damning, but. But because this isn't a trial. But it was sort of like, there's no reason any of these women would make any of this up.
[80:50]
W. Kamau Bell
And. And especially they're all. A lot of this happened to them 30, 40 years ago. Like, why would you still be riding on a lie like this?
[80:57]
Marc Maron
Well, yeah, and a lot of them didn't even want to talk about it.
[80:59]
W. Kamau Bell
Didn't want to talk. And. And to be fair, like, a lot of them were, like, the only reason they thought they would talk about it now is because they were like, they. They believed in. They'd seen my work before, and they're like, well, if anybody can pull this thing off, it's you is what I was being like. So, like, they were like, I'm going to trust you. Which is why, even though I often wanted to quit, I was like, I can't do it because these women have. Have trusted me.
[81:19]
Marc Maron
That's me and Kamau on episode 1308. You can listen to that for free on all podcast apps. To get every episode of WTF ad free, go to the link in the episode description or go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF Plus. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by acast. Now let me dig up some guitar for you from the Vault. Boomer Lives. Monkey La Fonda, Cat Angels Everywhere.
[84:03]
W. Kamau Bell
Sa.