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- [00:00]
Marc Maron
Lock the gate.
- [00:09]
Nick Thune
All right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the Buddies? What the nicks? What's happening? I'm Marc Maron. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. What is happening? I have been out here. I've been on the road. I'm still on it. I'm in it. I'm living it. I'm recording this in a hotel room. Not even my hotel room, because my hotel room's not ready yet. So I had to borrow the space from my opening act, Ally Makofsky. We just checked in. She went for a walk somewhere over in lovely Charleston, South Carolina, which is where I'm reporting from. I'm coming to you live from Charleston, South Carolina, where I have no sense of anything other than very Southern. But, you know, in the glamorous Southern way. It seems very specific, and people love it. People love it here. I. Maybe after I do this, I'll get out and walk around. I think I walked around last time. I don't remember. I was probably in some state of panic. But I have to tell you, that is receding a bit. I'm not sure why, but I have to assume it's a good thing. But what can I tell you before I get into where we've been and what's been going on? Nick Thune is on the show today. Nick Thune has been on the show twice. He was on episode 189 and episode 780. Both episodes. I talked to him a lot about his Christianity, which is interesting. We're now at a point with this show where people that were on that long ago have had entire chunks of life. Entire chunks of life, and a lot of stuff has transpired. And Nick has been through the fucking ringer that, you know, brought him to the. To the edge for sure. Not just to the edge of his faith, but I think really, to be honest, after talking to him, it sounds like to the edge of his life, literally. So it was great to catch up with him. He's got this new special out called Born Young, which is available on YouTube. I believe it's produced by Nate Bargetze. He tours with Nate. This morning, we were leaving the hotel in Charlotte, and there was a couple checking out, and they recognized me. They're like, hey, you know, what's going on? Good show last night. Yeah, we're heading out. And the woman was like, yeah, we heard that you, you know, on stage, you talked about you stopped at a Dunkin Donuts on the way. On the way down at a truck Stop. And I'm. And the guy was like, I didn't. I thought you guys be on a tour bus. I thought you guys like, you know, you just stopping at Dunkin Donuts at truck stops. I'm like, yeah, don't tell anybody, but that's how I roll. I rent a car where I land and then I drive around the region. I'm performing in just me and who's ever opening for me in a car for hours? No tour bus. Everybody assumes we're rock stars. I don't even. I don't have a road manager. I don't have nine guys I'm on the road with. I don't even know what I would do with a tour. But I felt a little bad that maybe this guy was a little disappointed or maybe he wasn't. I don't know. This is how I do it. This is the way that is most practical for me to do it. I don't need a bus. I don't need a bus for just me and my opener. You know, there's part of me that thinks like, well, maybe you should just do it to do it. But it would be sad. I think it would be a little weird to roll up on a theater and just me and Ali climb out of the bus. Where are the rest of the guys? Not. This is it. We just needed the whole bus to carry. We have two bags each and one's a carry on, so. But we thought probably be easier to take the bus and just put the shit in a trunk. Anyway, look, I wanted to mention something. This guy that I had on the show years ago, he's got something coming out. Drew Friedman is his name. He's a cartoonist, an artist. He's one of my favorite. I guess it would originally be underground comics. He's just a brilliant portrait artist and also comic artist. And there's this big documentary about him. It's called Drew Friedman, Vermeer of the Borscht Belt. It's directed by Kevin Dougherty. And Drew and Kevin are gonna be screening the doc at the Arrow Theater in Los Angeles this Saturday, March 29th. There's a panel discussion afterward with Dana Gould, Cliff Nesteroff, Leonard Maltin, Meryl Marco, Steven Weber, and screenwriter Scott Alexander. And you can get tickets at the Aerotheater or go to americancinematech.com I imagine I'm going to be out of town. Yes, I believe so. Or I would have been part of that, right? I would have been part of it also tomorrow I'm at Largo in Los Angeles. That's Tuesday night, March 25th. Then Skokie, Illinois. I'm coming to the North Shore center for the Performing arts on Friday, March 28th. Joliet, Illinois. I'm at the Rialto Square Theater on Saturday, March 29th. Grand Rapids, Michigan for the GLC Live at 20 Monroe on Friday, April 11th. And then Traverse City, Michigan at the City Opera House on Saturday, April 12th. Also, new dates announced for Dynasty Typewriter in Los Angeles. Monday, April 14, Saturday, April 26, and Tuesday, April 29. Those are all at 7:30pm I'm coming to Toronto, Vermont, New Hampshire and Brooklyn, New York for my HBO special taping at the BAM Harvey Theater on May 10. Go to wtfpod.com tour for all of my dates and links to tickets. So it's been, it's always kind of enlightening to be out here. You know, I get all worked up about the South, I get all worked up about politics. But ultimately, you know, I have plenty of people that come out to see me at these shows. Even here in Charleston. It didn't sell as well as Charlotte or Durham, which was great. Got, you know, over a thousand people there. Durham and what a great town. Saw some people I knew there and you know, had good food and then we drove out to Charlotte and I'm always like nervous about Charlotte and I don't even know why. I'm like, you know, what is Charlotte? It's like a bank city. I don't know why. I've got this weird thing. And then when I get to these places, I realize, man, I've been here more than once, more than twice, probably three or four times one way or the other. I think I did the Oddball fest, the first Oddball fest in Charlotte. And I don't know why. I have this thing in my head. I knew Raleigh, Durham was going to be fine, but I had this thing in my head in Charlotte. And then I just, I realized that sometimes you can't identify why a place or something makes you uncomfortable until you like get there and you're like, oh yeah, I didn't think, I didn't feel great about my show last time. It was that simple. It had nothing to do with the socio political population of Charlotte or the nature of the region or anything. I just remember getting the theater and I was like, oh yeah, this theater was a little hard to tell to keep your pace going because the laughs didn't come back at me like you expect them to. And I realized like it was one of those nights where I thought like oh my God. Every joke is a journey, Every joke is a mountain. But this time we just. We did. It was great. I mean, it was. It was just. It was great. We. I mean, you get the hang of it. But that's what I realized that the thing was, that was what was in my head and it kind of fucked me up. It's just weird, you know, you get out and you talk to people and things become kind of a different game. Like, I went to this place. It was sort of interesting, you know, I went to this place, I was trying to find vegan food in Charlotte and I looked at. I found this place, it was like a soul food plant based thing. And I went to this place called the Kitsch. And I've never been to these places where you just walk in and there's a wall of screens and you order on the screen and then somebody brings it to you from a door and several different restaurants. So I imagine it's just like an industrial kitchen behind that door with stations for each of these different types of food or restaurants. But there was sort of like a regular counter and seated restaurant, a brick and mortar restaurant connected to it. And I wasn't loving what I was seeing on the plant based thing. And then I started talking to the guy. It was a Japanese restaurant. It was called Dozo Japanese American Kitchen. I'm talking to the guy there, the guy who owns the place. And you know, he started with a food truck. He said he could. He didn't have any real vegan stuff on the menu, but he saw that I was kind of frustrated or. And he recognized me. He's like, you're Marc Maron. He said, I saw you at the Comedy Store a few months ago. You were great. And I'm like, thanks. I'm like, I don't know if I want to eat that food. He's like, I'll fix you something, man. I'll make you something vegan. And he. He just set out and he kind of cooked me a fresh batch of like mushroom and tofu fried rice. And we talked to. I talked to him about stuff about the business, about moving from the truck and into a restaurant and how that was going. And then we just started talking about the nature of the state and about Charlotte being blue and the state being red and being what it is. But then it was sort of interesting about him running a business. And when he was younger, he didn't really have a sense of the impact of politics or what's going on necessarily his life or his business. But now, you know, the talk was about what are these tariffs going to do? What is this new economic policy going to do? Is he going to be able to survive as a business with food prices being jacked, getting produce from Mexico? So it is kind of fascinating how many people are relatively detached from the impact of politics on their life and sort of consumed with the satisfaction of ideological actions taking place that make them emotionally satisfied. Like if you're cruel and intolerant, and the idea of hundreds of thousands of people being thrown out of the country because, you know, Trump said he was gonna do it, it's satisfying. You know, when you read about it and go like, yeah, fuck yeah. I mean, it's hard for me to empathize or get into the brain of that, but. But nonetheless, it's just an emotional reaction to bits and pieces of information or news or policy that is, you know, it's completely destroying the fabric of our government and our, and our society. But some people are satisfied by that. But the actual trickle down effect of like connecting the dots between how these policies and how the tone of the country affects your life, I don't know. I don't know if it's gonna happen to everybody. I don't know if people are still gonna be satisfied. But it was interesting to talk to somebody who just had this moment of like, oh, this has a direct impact on my livelihood. And obviously everybody's fired from the federal government and people are deported and that too. But this guy, not, you know, he's just running a restaurant. Anyway, it's good to talk to people. I feel like that's been some kind of theme of how I'm approaching dealing with this stuff in my life. You know, talking to people becomes essential. All that said, it's been, you know, it's been okay. I don't know what's going to happen tonight. You know, like I said, Durham was great, Charlotte was great tonight. You know, by the time you listen to it, it'll be done. But I'm looking forward to this. It was kind of a weird situation the time I was down here last time, but the weather's been perfect and I don't know, I'm just trying to tighten up that set. It's very, very tricky to be doing like an hour and a half hour, 40 on the regular, and I got to get that down to 70 or 60 or 70 for the special. And you get very attached to these bits and I got to pull out some major chunks to get this kind of kind of singing at the length of Time necessary for the special. Last time I talked to you, I said I went to the get the eval and get the medicine. And I talked to you about how the just having the label or the condition named, you know, obsessional anxiety. It brought me some relief, but it didn't last long. But nonetheless, now I'm in that zone where I'm going to try the medicine, I'm trying it, I'm on it. I'm on it right now. Can you tell the difference? Does it feel different? Do I feel like a whole new person? Does it sound like I'm just taking it easy, that I'm keeping. I'm taking everything in stride and keeping things in the right context in my brain, compartmentalizing properly, not letting one or two miserable fucking things that I let into my brain destroy the rest of it for the afternoon. Does it sound like I'm doing that? Can you tell that I've taken the load off, that I'm no longer that self conscious or aware of exactly what's going on in my mind at every given point in time and try not to react to that as if it's a reality? Does it sound like it's working? Is it working? But because I've had this. I started talking about it on stage the other night, just this idea that my resting mind doesn't rest. And there's this. I think I may have talked about this before and certainly it's not an unknown thing for people that do this. I think your brain, if you have a brain like this, is going to imagine the worst. You're going to play it out in your head and then anything that happens short of that is, you know, fucking victory. It's a relief. And I realized I've been doing this thing that's kind of. It's kind of nuts. And I'm. I don't know why I started doing it, but, but along those lines, I've been doing this thing where when I fly now, like getting to the airport and all this stuff just, it's aggravating. It's anxiety. And even though it's my life, just converging on the point of departure causes me a lot of stress. There's a lot of things to do. There's. There's a lot of things to get through and there's, you know, there's the whole act of leaving, whatever that entails for anybody. But, you know, it's just normal flight stuff. But when I get on a plane, and I used to be a guy who I was terrified of flying for years. For years, I would have to stay up all night. I would drink, I would do drugs. I would do whatever it took to try to just, you know, not be terrified to take off in a fucking airplane. And it was taxing. And when you lived like that, you know, you'd get to wherever you were going, and you were immobilized from just what you had to do to get through the fucking flight. And at some point, I let go. And I thought it was a spiritual moment. I thought, you know, if I'm going to understand the concept of powerlessness, this is a great example of that. And I do that. But the steps I take in my brain just to fly on an airplane, like, once I get on the plane, I'm like, all right, dude, you can still get off. Like, if you have to, you can still get off. If you got bad feeling, you can still get off. You know, you can. You can stop everything right now, tell them to turn back and let you off the plane. It's not. You know, it's still possible now, but then once it hits the Runway and, you know, the engines go and, you know, we're taking off, you know, that shifts. And then. Then I go into, well, you can't get off now. And you know what? You have no control over what's happening. You know, you signed up for this. You got to get to where you're going. It's out of your hands, dude. You're in the fucking air. And then for a few minutes, what I do is I just picture very graphically the plane. The plane crashing. Like, I've just picture, like, that moment where everyone around me realizes it. This is it. And just the screaming and the terror and the feeling of what it would be like to, you know, go out that way. How much time would you have to think about things? And then just the. The black emptiness of death and just the chaos and terror surrounding me. I picture it graphically to the point where it's just horrifying. And then somehow or another, I relax into flying. Now, I could live without those. Those two steps. I really could. And I don't know how it really falls into or under the rubric of thinking the worst. So anything happens is better than the worst. Because, look, I mean, let's say the worst thing happened and the plane starts going down. And am I going to be sitting there like, you know, I knew this was a possibility, and I know exactly how this is going to go, so I'm good with it. I don't think so. And again and the other thing about kind of trying to deal with this psychological issue that I have around this brain, there's always the question of, like, well, dude, what if that's all you are? What if that's who you are? What if this is how you think? Maybe this is where you understand things in this mode of, you know, heightened anxiety. Maybe this is your process. Do you want to fuck with that? What if it diminishes your ability to sort of generate or process or understand in the way you do? Because a lot of that's pretty good. What if my life is really just, you know, panning for gold in a river of panic, just waiting for those nuggets? What if that's it? Well, to answer that question, I think we have to go with age. And, you know, where I'm at in my life. And I think the answer to that, what if that's what it is? Is, okay, well, maybe that's true, but I've had a fuck. Enough. I've had enough. I'm tired. I've had enough. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. And from the first day we started this show, I didn't know anything about how to make a website. I used to have to send everything off to someone to have them put it on the site. They'd deal with any alterations or updates or bugs. But that all changed when we started using Squarespace. Now we run everything in house, updating the site whenever we want and letting Squarespace handle all the additions and upgrades. With Squarespace, you can showcase anything you want with a customizable website designed to attract clients or fans and grow your business. Squarespace has cutting edge design tools. Anyone can build an online presence that suits them perfectly. Start with Blueprint AI, Squarespace's AI enhanced website builder to get a fully custom website in just a few steps, using basic information about your industry goals and personality to generate personalized design recommendations. Check out squarespace.com wtf for a free trial. And when you're all set to put your new site out in the world, use offer code WTF to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com WTF offer code WTF. Okay, so look, I had Nick Thune back and we talked about the real shit. We talked about the arc of his life since I talked to him years ago and what he'd been through. His new standup special is called Born Young. You can watch it now on YouTube. And this is me talking to Nick Thune back in the garage. Let Me take a minute to tell you about two great new additions to my life. The carom and the heart. Those are the two rugs I just got from Revival Rugs, and they're perfect folks. I'm a rug freak, and it's not usually an easy decision. Rugs can be way overpriced priced and low quality. Revival's founders don't want you spending thousands on a rug, but they don't want you settling for less either. Their most popular line is Revival's Genuine Washable rugs, which are truly 100 washable, but have the look and feel of a real rug so you don't have to sacrifice style for convenience. I picked out my rugs from the Revival site and it was totally easy to find exactly the right rugs for my space. Visit RevivalRugs.com WTF and use code WTF20 for 20% off your first order. Once again, that's RevivalRugs.com WTFand use code WTF20. Nothing beats that feeling of instantly transforming a room with a new rug. I just had that feeling twice. And now it's your turn one more time. Revivalrugs.com WTF with code WTF20 to save 20%.
- [20:29]
Marc Maron
I mean, you just pressed something that sounded like it did something, didn't it? Yeah.
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Nick Thune
Yeah. I don't know. No, it's. It's not giving me what I usually have here. See that? You know that.
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Marc Maron
Which is a feed into the computer.
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Nick Thune
Well, no, I have it, but usually there's two channels. There's two mics. It's separated. You know, there's a track for each mic, even though it's the same track, basically. But I'm not getting. I'm not getting any of that.
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Marc Maron
Maybe we should try some step work.
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Nick Thune
Well, I'm actively in the steps right now as we speak.
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Marc Maron
Yeah.
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Nick Thune
Yes. I think I'm keeping it together pretty well. I'm mildly obsessed. I know that at a certain point I will acknowledge it's out of my control and I'll let go for now.
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Marc Maron
Yeah.
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Nick Thune
But it's not going to go away, Nick.
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Marc Maron
You think your sponsor will hear about this?
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Nick Thune
No, I don't. I'm not in touch with my sponsor in that way anymore. Yeah, day to day, I lost my mind kind of thing. I did actually, though, make a sober call in a real way that I hadn't made in a long time. I wasn't going to drink or use drugs, but I was spiraling out and I couldn't get out of it. So I called a guy that you probably know him, you know, he didn't see it coming. You know, he doesn't look at me, you know, he knows I'm in recovery. And I helped him get sober, but he certainly didn't expect, just sort of like, listen, man, talk me down, call. And he did a good job. Kept it, he kept it in the zone, the step zone. Said some, a few things. And I was able to kind of get down to a baseline of, you know, a mild vibration of insanity.
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Marc Maron
Yeah.
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Nick Thune
How about you? You an everyday call guy?
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Marc Maron
No. And I'm, I'm, I'm between sponsors right now.
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Nick Thune
Oh. Shopping around.
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Marc Maron
I just, actually, yeah. At a meeting the other day, I looked around and I thought, I need to really kind of pick this, you know, and it just, I had a great sponsor. He moved it, you know, I just couldn't do it anymore. And then I, I, Everyone always wants.
- [22:45]
Nick Thune
To be really sounds like a relationship with a, yeah, like a partner. Well, everybody do the long distance sponsorship thing.
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Marc Maron
Tough man. We didn't see each other enough.
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Nick Thune
I'm sorry, buddy.
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Marc Maron
But he, I'm not a, I hate the phone. I, I, Talking on the phone is really hard for me to do. I really am an in person guy.
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Nick Thune
Yeah.
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Marc Maron
So, but yeah, I, I, they, I always get treated with kid gloves too. I feel like I need somebody that doesn't do that, you know, somebody that's like, I don't care if you're traveling a lot.
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Nick Thune
Yeah.
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Marc Maron
You're doing this, you know, like, rather than like, oh, it's okay, buddy. You travel, you know, you, yeah, you got a lot going on.
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Nick Thune
Yeah, no, I had one of those at the beginning. How far along are you at this point?
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Marc Maron
Six years.
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Nick Thune
Yeah, well, I mean, you're, you're going pretty good. Yeah, I mean I, I had one of those at the beginning. And he just pounding away, doing all the work, doing, you know, 90 and 90, going to meeting every day or so for like five years. But now it's like, where am I? I'm up in the 25ish years. Right. So I'm going to have 20. Is it, is that correct? 99. So I'm have, oh, Christ. What does that mean? So 99 to 20. 25, that's 26 years.
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Marc Maron
Yeah.
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Nick Thune
So I'm gonna have 26 this year. It's crazy.
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Marc Maron
Yeah, that's a lot.
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Nick Thune
But I am in touch with so sober people. You know, some of my, my friends, my best friends are sober, but we don't do the sober talk. I have a sponsor, but we don't seem to get together anymore.
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Marc Maron
It's like for me, I don't. I've never had. I had 12 years at one point, and then, you know, was that.
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Nick Thune
Was that AA sober or just.
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Marc Maron
I would say that it was 10 years a. Sober.
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Nick Thune
Yeah.
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Marc Maron
And then two years of just like white knuckling when I moved to la.
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Nick Thune
And then what, what. Why'd you, what do you track the relapse to the falling apart of your life?
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Marc Maron
No, my life was fine. I mean, that, that, that caused it. Yeah, for sure. But, you know, and I was. I was 28 and I just thought, I think I can do this. You know, have cocktails. Yeah. And I went to. I had a gig in Vegas and I landed and I just thought, I'm gonna get a beer at the casino. And I did.
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Nick Thune
Nice beer.
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Marc Maron
And then I got a mixed drink that I never really had. Cause I got sober when I was 17 and it was like. Absinthe.
- [25:03]
Nick Thune
Yeah, absinthe. Wow. Did you go to a casino in France in the 1800s?
- [25:11]
Marc Maron
Well, I mean, it could have been, as far as I know, but I woke up, you know, five hours later to pounding on my door. It was the security guards. I was 20 minutes late from being on stage. And it was like, oh, it. This is immediately affecting my career, job, my everything.
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Nick Thune
You were doing a show at the casino.
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Marc Maron
Yeah.
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Nick Thune
And did you blow it?
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Marc Maron
That show was horrible. Yeah, I mean, it was. And they were angry. They were so angry.
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Nick Thune
Do you remember the last time I talked to you on this show for like.
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Marc Maron
Yeah, like a long, long time ago.
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Nick Thune
Yeah.
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Marc Maron
Yeah.
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Nick Thune
How many years ago is that? I could look it up. It's kind of fascinating because I don't think we've had a real sit down for probably.
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Marc Maron
No, it's. Yeah, it's probably been over 10 years.
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Nick Thune
Yeah. Right.
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Marc Maron
I would say this is the kind.
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Nick Thune
Of research that other podcasters do. Or they have a guy at a computer doing maybe 11 years.
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Marc Maron
Maybe it was 2014 or something that.
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Nick Thune
That would. Yeah, I feel like that's it. That would be helpful to have a guy over on a computer just saying. Giving me the information I need immediately.
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Marc Maron
Yeah, you could just turn around and.
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Nick Thune
Say, yeah, well, can you get the. Or they known intuitively. Oh, God.
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Marc Maron
I think that's what makes your podcast special, is that you don't have that guy.
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Nick Thune
It's a long time ago, dude. It's longer than you think.
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Marc Maron
2011.
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Nick Thune
Yeah, 2011.
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Marc Maron
Wow.
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Nick Thune
Yeah, dude, that's crazy.
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Marc Maron
That's a long time ago.
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Nick Thune
I think that was probably during the time that I might have even been resentful or. We have that.
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Marc Maron
Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I mean, you know what's funny is that we, we had a good conversation, right. And I was insecure about it after and you said it was great, buddy, you're gonna sound, you know. And afterwards I got some really great, really nice messages from like Patton Oswald and you know, like, hey, that's. I love, I love, you know.
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Nick Thune
Yeah.
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Marc Maron
Hearing. But we really got into religion was the thing because I was really at the time kind of full Jesus I was coming out of. I was, I was already out of it, but I was definitely not.
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Nick Thune
You're already out of Jesus.
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Marc Maron
I think I was. I mean, I'm not. I wouldn't say I'm out of Jesus even now. I mean, I'm. But I think I was out of Jesus.
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Nick Thune
You always have Jesus once you have Jesus. Once you have Jesus, you always have Jesus.
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Marc Maron
You can't get rid of him.
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Nick Thune
He is, he's just, he's waiting. He knows God.
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Marc Maron
Take a hint.
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Nick Thune
Yeah, no, you can't. Once he's in there.
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Marc Maron
You know what I mean?
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Nick Thune
But I do remember there was. So at that time you felt like you were getting out of the organization.
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Marc Maron
Yeah, I was already. When I moved here, I, I actually immediately got involved with a church downtown.
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Nick Thune
Right.
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Marc Maron
And was helping with like volunteering on the weekends with like 14, 15, 16 year old kids.
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Nick Thune
Right.
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Marc Maron
Which I always love doing because I, I got a lot of help from that when I was young. That was really cool. But yeah, I just, it. Especially in la, once you get to the LA church, the, the networking, the. Oh, this guy is working. Oh, he might know people that can help me and maybe because I'm a Christian, it would be more likely he'd help me.
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Nick Thune
Oh.
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Marc Maron
And not that I don't want to help anybody, but I like to help people that I think are, I don't if I could even help anybody at all, to be honest. But you know, the people that I like to work with or collaborate with or do anything with are people that I admire. And if you don't make something, you know, if we don't fit just because of God. Yeah, that's not enough for me.
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Nick Thune
Yeah, right.
- [28:51]
Marc Maron
That's not a mean thing. It's just. But they think that that's enough.
- [28:54]
Nick Thune
Yeah, well, I mean it seems like there's, it's very interesting in terms, in terms of what's happening in the country and everything else and it. And with Christian branding and business, it's a Big thing.
- [29:06]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [29:07]
Nick Thune
You know, so it's weird that in 2000, whenever you came out here, that was not a thing. But now those people wouldn't even have to ask you. This whole network of, you know, Christian, you know, rock music, Christian movies, Christian.
- [29:23]
Marc Maron
Influences, it all has the same filter, too, that if you were to. Like an Instagram filter. Yeah. It all is. Just ran through the same thing.
- [29:30]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [29:30]
Marc Maron
And there's two or three people on the top.
- [29:33]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [29:33]
Marc Maron
And they're pretty close to being canceled.
- [29:36]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [29:37]
Marc Maron
You know, and rotating a new one up, which just happens over and over again. And then they have a documentary series on Netflix.
- [29:44]
Nick Thune
Yeah. When Christians go down, they go down big.
- [29:46]
Marc Maron
They go down hard.
- [29:47]
Nick Thune
Yeah. And I had that realization recently, you know, with a mutual friend of ours. And I do think it resonates with me that when you really realize that the struggle is real, that even if you. If you put it into the framework of sin or of transcending the moral parameters of what Christianity is supposed to be, the need to get straight with Jesus and maintain that relationship is a daily struggle for some guys. And it doesn't mean they're going to win. And when they lose, goes down hard.
- [30:27]
Marc Maron
And it's because they don't actually follow through on the personal relationship aspect is what they. You know, it's like Christianity is having your own personal relationship with God.
- [30:38]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [30:38]
Marc Maron
And so that should mean that we have falling outs, and that's not up to you to judge or, you know, if you're in a leadership position. Any faltering.
- [30:48]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [30:48]
Marc Maron
Any admittance to that. There's. You're asked to leave, step down. It's brutal.
- [30:55]
Nick Thune
Any. Any sort of admitted admittance to what I'm struggling with. Oh, interesting.
- [31:01]
Marc Maron
Porn.
- [31:02]
Nick Thune
Right.
- [31:02]
Marc Maron
You know, or that's what they build as their foundation. I struggled with porn.
- [31:08]
Nick Thune
Right.
- [31:08]
Marc Maron
Even if they're doing it, you know.
- [31:10]
Nick Thune
Like, even if they're masturbating at the, at the, at the, at the podium, they don't.
- [31:15]
Marc Maron
They know. They just watch it. They don't masturbate.
- [31:17]
Nick Thune
Okay.
- [31:18]
Marc Maron
They're all edging.
- [31:21]
Nick Thune
Aren't we all?
- [31:22]
Marc Maron
Yeah. God, I'm right on the edge right now.
- [31:24]
Nick Thune
To be always on the edge of a lot of things. I think that's how I live my life. It's, as a metaphor, edging. Well, that's. Well, that's kind of interesting, that. So that means that most people who are looking to these leaders, they're willing to accept flaws, or at least flaws in the past, but sort of the conversation of active struggle that they May be not winning. Then it's sort of like, well, we need to get a new leader.
- [31:52]
Marc Maron
Yeah. We need somebody new to come in because this isn't a good look.
- [31:55]
Nick Thune
Yeah. Or it's like, you know, he needs sort of a one on one help or maybe he should just come on this side of the, of the podium.
- [32:03]
Marc Maron
For a while and they might make it like he's, you know, taking a sabbatical.
- [32:07]
Nick Thune
Sure.
- [32:07]
Marc Maron
Or, you know, whatever. But it's really a word. We're looking for something new.
- [32:12]
Nick Thune
They kind of God their leaders and.
- [32:15]
Marc Maron
It sucks because there's. That doesn't. I have a friend that's a pastor and I know through and through this guy is such a good person and somebody that doesn't throw it in people's faces. But you know, if he makes a mistake, he's leading a church and people like the elders, you know, all the people that are kind of involved in these decisions, they just are just so ready to rotate.
- [32:44]
Nick Thune
Well, I think like one of the issues is too is like the church is a community. So if you start fucking with the, you know, people in the community, you drag some other people in. It's like it never goes away. And you know, the humbling is if either you're going to stay in that community or you really go split.
- [32:59]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [32:59]
Nick Thune
That's why guys go to like other towns and start churches. No, he had a church over and wherever and they're like, why do you leave? Like, we don't really know. But you know, we got this building.
- [33:09]
Marc Maron
I mean they had that guy up in Seattle that.
- [33:11]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [33:11]
Marc Maron
That. The Mars. I don't know if you remember Driscoll, Mark Driscoll or something like that. There was a big, you know, he got. It was an explosion. I mean this was a huge church. And he, he said things like, you know, minivans, mean mini man. You know, like if a man had a minivan.
- [33:29]
Nick Thune
Okay.
- [33:30]
Marc Maron
Yeah, like he had all these kind of weird, funny quotes.
- [33:32]
Nick Thune
He was that sort of. What is it? The, the success driven Christianity. The sort of empowerment driven. Yeah, yeah, Christianity. That God wants you to be rich.
- [33:41]
Marc Maron
And I don't think he's changed. I just think that he moved to a different state.
- [33:44]
Nick Thune
Yeah, of course, that's what happens. They just keep moving them around. Catholic church did that for years until there was hundreds of thousands of abused children.
- [33:54]
Marc Maron
I lived across, you know that like weird Catholic thing in Silver Lake. That's right. By one of the Manson houses.
- [34:03]
Nick Thune
Wow.
- [34:04]
Marc Maron
It's on Waverly.
- [34:05]
Nick Thune
The same map as you. Yeah. Okay.
- [34:07]
Marc Maron
And it's apparently. I mean, always wonder what it is. It's like beautiful looking and gated. And apparently it's a place where they send.
- [34:16]
Nick Thune
Oh, the priests.
- [34:18]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [34:18]
Nick Thune
For some rehab.
- [34:19]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [34:20]
Nick Thune
Some detox.
- [34:21]
Marc Maron
And it was always nice to know how close they were, just wandering around. Yeah. And you know that they're getting better and you've got.
- [34:29]
Nick Thune
But you still want to keep your.
- [34:30]
Marc Maron
Kid in the house. Well, they're probably fixed, you know, and they keep them there even if they're fixed or not fixed.
- [34:35]
Nick Thune
You mean neutered.
- [34:36]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [34:39]
Nick Thune
Who knows how they treat them. Well, let's go back because, like, I remember distinctly and I did watch your special and I'm not gonna. I'm not. I'm not gonna, you know, be judgmental in the way of like, you know, back in my time, we did hours, but, you know, you guys do what you want.
- [34:58]
Marc Maron
Oh, the hour, the length. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [35:01]
Nick Thune
But everyone's doing that now. And I know people are advised to do that now because they've. Everyone's decided because the algorithm has turned us out that, you know, people just can't. They can't pay attention.
- [35:11]
Marc Maron
That. The secondary advice, you know, device thing, you know, that. That whole thing, like, you know, like the way that, you know, showrunners and executives are saying that the TV or whatever we're watching a thing on is the secondary advice. The first device is the phone. Is the phone in front of us. And they have to hit plot points over and over again to remind us what's happening in a show. Because we're checking texts and emails as we're watching this show.
- [35:38]
Nick Thune
So this is all in practice. Yeah.
- [35:41]
Marc Maron
This is a thing that's in meetings, that's talked about.
- [35:43]
Nick Thune
Okay.
- [35:44]
Marc Maron
But for me, what I. I love the hour concept. I love the standup concept. You know, like, I'm doing the Tonight show on Monday and I chose to do stand up. Cause I like.
- [35:54]
Nick Thune
Oh, yeah, you can do five.
- [35:55]
Marc Maron
Yeah, I want it. I love that.
- [35:57]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [35:57]
Marc Maron
There's something so remaining.
- [35:59]
Nick Thune
Well, it also used to be part of the job.
- [36:01]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [36:01]
Nick Thune
Like, you gotta figure out how to do that. You know, take all your pick your. Tighten some up. Change it a little bit so it can fit into five minutes. It was like a. One of the challenges. I mean, doing stand up.
- [36:13]
Marc Maron
I was this morning with a red pen and a piece. I mean, last night I ran it two times. It was so fun. It was just like, this is. Yeah. And. But Nate, who produced this, just was like, listen, I was like, I don't want to put a whole hour out. I'm. I'm like, I'm finding myself again. I have a lot of material that I don't know what to do with. And he said, I just want to show my fans.
- [36:34]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [36:34]
Marc Maron
Your stuff. Yeah, you know, let's just do it, you know? And I was like, yeah, let's just do a half hour. And he. In that way, he was being so cool. He was like, I just want people to see you.
- [36:45]
Nick Thune
So you were. This was really about just putting you out there. You're not looking to make a bunch of money on it. You're just like. You want people to watch it.
- [36:52]
Marc Maron
No. Yeah. I don't. I don't. Money is so. I mean, I love it. It's nice when you have it and you have to worry about things. But I think since becoming a dad, the only thing I'm concerned about money is that I have something to give my son.
- [37:04]
Nick Thune
Sure.
- [37:05]
Marc Maron
Otherwise, it's a hassle.
- [37:07]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [37:08]
Marc Maron
You know, it's like, as long as I'm. We have a home, I can make him lunches.
- [37:13]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [37:13]
Marc Maron
You know, like, we're good.
- [37:15]
Nick Thune
Yeah. Well, that's. That's kind of nice. Old school thinking.
- [37:17]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [37:18]
Nick Thune
The lunch may not. You might not be able to afford the fruit, but you can have a sandwich.
- [37:22]
Marc Maron
No, the fruit we have. That's the thing. I'm a vegan, so it's like the house is stacked.
- [37:26]
Nick Thune
I'm vegan, too.
- [37:27]
Marc Maron
I meant well. Did you. I feel like we talked. We were talking about cream cheese when I saw you last.
- [37:32]
Nick Thune
Oh, where was that?
- [37:33]
Marc Maron
Oh, yeah.
- [37:34]
Nick Thune
Finding the. The good vegan cream cheese.
- [37:37]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Kitchen mouse.
- [37:38]
Nick Thune
Oh, okay. I. Well, I mean, if I buy it at the store, I get the Mykonos.
- [37:44]
Marc Maron
Yeah, that's good. Yeah.
- [37:45]
Nick Thune
I think they do a good cashew cream cheese.
- [37:47]
Marc Maron
They do. But kitchen mouses is at, like, Bell's Bagels. They, you know.
- [37:51]
Nick Thune
Oh, they make their own.
- [37:53]
Marc Maron
Makes their own vegan cream cheese.
- [37:54]
Nick Thune
Bell's Bagels. Haven't had those. You know, as a Jew and as a former New Yorker, I'm still weird with bagels. Like, I don't mind having a bagel here and there, but, like, I still have them in New York and I still have this idea of what an amazing bagel is, and it's never been matched here to the ones I used to get. I can't even remember what the name of the place was. Maybe it was B and D bagels and used to go. Have to go downtown, get them in the morning when they were hot in la. No, in New York. And they were dense, man. Dense.
- [38:24]
Marc Maron
Dense, yes. Heavy.
- [38:25]
Nick Thune
Yeah, they were like, you know, it was like they had a weight to them.
- [38:29]
Marc Maron
And that's good.
- [38:30]
Nick Thune
Yeah, it was good. Oh, yeah. For me, I felt like those were the real deal.
- [38:35]
Marc Maron
And you watch what you eat.
- [38:36]
Nick Thune
Yes, I. Yes, I did. I'm nuts.
- [38:40]
Marc Maron
So. So eating a dense bagel doesn't seem like.
- [38:44]
Nick Thune
No, it's a.
- [38:45]
Marc Maron
It's a rare thing, so once a month.
- [38:46]
Nick Thune
But like, I'll tell you, those Cantor's rye bre is top notch.
- [38:50]
Marc Maron
Oh, yeah, you told me that Cantor's.
- [38:51]
Nick Thune
Makes a vegan Reuben.
- [38:54]
Marc Maron
Yes.
- [38:54]
Nick Thune
It's awesome.
- [38:55]
Marc Maron
I gotta have it.
- [38:55]
Nick Thune
It's awesome. Yeah, like, I'll. I'll do it. I want to wear. I don't want to wear it out. Yeah. I don't know that it's good for you. I would say it falls under the umbrella of vegan junk food.
- [39:04]
Marc Maron
I'm gonna do it tonight. I'm doing the store tonight. I'm gonna go there.
- [39:06]
Nick Thune
Yeah. Yeah. Just make sure you get. Well, what you do is they have a vegetarian option and a vegan option. And the vegan option is the. The Mrs. Goldfarb's Corned Beef. I think it's a seitan ish kind of thing. Or maybe it's soy, but it's spiced properly. But you get. They have a vegan Russian dressing and you replace the cheese with avocado. So it's basically sauerkraut, you know, avocado, the meat and then the vegan Russian. And they grill it, though. That's the best part. They grill it like a Reuben. And I've. I've had very good experience with it.
- [39:36]
Marc Maron
Are Reuben's always grilled.
- [39:38]
Nick Thune
Yeah, that makes them great. That's what gives them that awesome crust. You know, it's not toast. They take the whole sandwich and they put it on the grill and they press. You know, they put the press on it and then flip it. So like a grilled cheese.
- [39:48]
Marc Maron
Yeah, right.
- [39:49]
Nick Thune
Yeah, that's excellent.
- [39:51]
Marc Maron
I used to get that at that place, that deli and like, by MacArthur park, whatever that Langers.
- [39:57]
Nick Thune
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was good. How long you been vegan?
- [40:00]
Marc Maron
Three years.
- [40:01]
Nick Thune
Yeah, I've been two. And I like cooking for it. Like. And I'm like, really kind of a stickler with it. I don't. I've made one or two exceptions, but not consistently. Like, I've been at a Thai place on the road because that's the only place I can eat. And if they're gonna put a little fish sauce in the green papaya salad. I'll take it.
- [40:20]
Marc Maron
Yeah. My girlfriend is what. Why I got into it, and she's an amazing cook.
- [40:26]
Nick Thune
That always goes well.
- [40:27]
Marc Maron
Yeah. It wasn't forced. It was just. It was like. I felt bad. I didn't like eating in front of her at first. I did it, like. Yeah. I think our first date, I got a steak, you know, like, just. I'm not changing. Yeah.
- [40:38]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [40:39]
Marc Maron
And. And then I tried it, and I thought, this is good for my cholesterol, so that's nice.
- [40:44]
Nick Thune
That's what I'm. Yeah, that's. That's why I started it. But, yeah, I cook all the time.
- [40:49]
Marc Maron
And I started for vain reasons, and then.
- [40:51]
Nick Thune
Oh, no, no. I started for the cholesterol.
- [40:52]
Marc Maron
No, for me. But that, to me, is vanity rather than saving animals.
- [40:56]
Nick Thune
Yeah, well, you get a little more sensitive to that as time goes on, the animal thing.
- [40:59]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [41:00]
Nick Thune
Because it does come in. You do know that you're. You know, you're. You're good. You look at animals differently. I get very emotional. I've always an animal guy. But now, like, my experience of empathy and sadness for animals in trouble is profound.
- [41:14]
Marc Maron
Yeah. It.
- [41:15]
Nick Thune
Like, I got two cats that are fighting. For some reason, they won't stop, and it's a horrible thing. Like when they won, the. Charlie just wants to beat your out of Buster, and I can't. I don't know what's going on.
- [41:24]
Marc Maron
And do you think Buster is not into it, or do you think, well.
- [41:26]
Nick Thune
Buster's kind of old and, you know, Charlie's just being a dick, and he's younger, and it's just, like. It's uncomfortable. I don't think he'll kill him, but, you know, it's like it causes all kinds of stress, and it just started, and I don't know, I'm gonna have to put the Charlie on medicine, and I don't even want to take medicine, so I project that onto him.
- [41:44]
Marc Maron
Maybe. Maybe take. Maybe no more testosterone. Are you doing that? I don't trt.
- [41:49]
Nick Thune
What, for the cat?
- [41:50]
Marc Maron
That's what Rogan does.
- [41:52]
Nick Thune
The cat's got no balls. Yeah. I don't know about Rogan, but I'm assuming, depending on how much steroid abuse he did in the past, I don't know what size his balls are, what effect they're having.
- [42:02]
Marc Maron
I'd love to wish we had a guy to look that up.
- [42:05]
Nick Thune
Look up Rogan's balls.
- [42:07]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [42:07]
Nick Thune
I'm sure if you Googled that, you'd get Something.
- [42:09]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [42:10]
Nick Thune
But going back, a pivotal, sort of interesting moment for me. And because I'm sure that in the original conversation, I was probably slightly condescending. I probably had judgments about you because you're playing guitar and you, you know, you were, you know, didn't have a beard and you were good looking and you were Becky's represent. He was representing you and you thought everything was going your way. I think.
- [42:33]
Marc Maron
Yeah, I think.
- [42:35]
Nick Thune
And I'm sure that annoyed me, but I remember we had a very decent talk about. About religion and stuff. But I remember, like, we had that talk and I don't know that I'd seen you that much for a while, and I ran into you in Montreal and you were on a tear.
- [42:50]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [42:51]
Nick Thune
And it was like, oh, my God, he is. He's. He's. He's. He's in it. He's in the fall.
- [42:58]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [42:59]
Nick Thune
He's in trouble, that guy.
- [43:00]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Bill Burr saw me at a grocery store, said the same thing.
- [43:04]
Nick Thune
Yeah. Like, you know, like, he's. He strayed.
- [43:08]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [43:09]
Nick Thune
Well, what happened? What was the arc.
- [43:12]
Marc Maron
Who. Not being an alcoholic, you know, I mean, it was. It was just wanting to. To drink and what.
- [43:19]
Nick Thune
And that happened that in. During. Then the relapse. So you got sober young.
- [43:23]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [43:23]
Nick Thune
And then. And then you like, I'll have that beer.
- [43:25]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [43:26]
Nick Thune
And then you up in Vegas, and it didn't stop there.
- [43:28]
Marc Maron
No. And I came home and my. My ex wife, I. I said, you know, I think I should start drinking again. I didn't tell her I had drank.
- [43:36]
Nick Thune
Like, it's a proactive decision.
- [43:38]
Marc Maron
I've been doing a lot of thinking and let's just. Let's get margaritas tonight, and if it's bad, you tell me and I'll just stop. No problem.
- [43:46]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [43:46]
Marc Maron
Cut to 10 years later, I'm in a hospital and it's gotten very bad.
- [43:50]
Nick Thune
Oh, my God. Really?
- [43:52]
Marc Maron
Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was, you know, delirium, tremors. All of the things that you get when you're drinking a bottle and a half of vodka a day. And it.
- [43:59]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [44:00]
Marc Maron
And it was just a bottle and a half. Yeah.
- [44:03]
Nick Thune
Wait, of what size bottle?
- [44:06]
Marc Maron
Like a fifth.
- [44:08]
Nick Thune
A fifth?
- [44:09]
Marc Maron
You know, like. Yeah, like a fifth of.
- [44:10]
Nick Thune
So you're waking up without orange juice.
- [44:13]
Marc Maron
I'm. I'm drinking in the middle of the night. I'm waking up at two to pee, and I'm taking five shots and then I'm going back to bed.
- [44:19]
Nick Thune
Hold on, dude. All right, so you tell your wife we're gonna have margaritas, and then like, and when does it. How quick before you're. You don't have the kid yet or you do.
- [44:29]
Marc Maron
Don't have the kid yet.
- [44:31]
Nick Thune
So you thought. Was the kid sort of a Hail.
- [44:33]
Marc Maron
Mary or what the kid was. Yeah, I didn't see the kid coming. And then when, when it happened, I thought, oh, I'm gonna really straighten out. And I just really didn't, which is what happens.
- [44:44]
Nick Thune
Holy shit. So. So, okay, so you're drinking again.
- [44:47]
Marc Maron
At the beginning, I would say pretty quickly. I was sneaking shots of, like, at friends houses and stuff. Like, you know, you go, you're pretending.
- [44:54]
Nick Thune
Like your guy who's controlling it at home.
- [44:56]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [44:56]
Nick Thune
You're still going to church?
- [44:58]
Marc Maron
No, no, no more church. I stopped going to church before that.
- [45:02]
Nick Thune
Okay.
- [45:02]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [45:03]
Nick Thune
Now, was he. I can't remember. Was your wife a church person?
- [45:05]
Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if she goes now, but.
- [45:09]
Nick Thune
Right.
- [45:09]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [45:10]
Nick Thune
But you let. You had that. You had that as part of your community.
- [45:12]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [45:13]
Nick Thune
So now does the shame of the drinking, you know, become consuming?
- [45:21]
Marc Maron
Well, yes.
- [45:23]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [45:23]
Marc Maron
But also knowing. No, I. There was never a moment that I could feel. Fool myself. I knew I was in AA for that long. Every time I looked at myself in the mirror.
- [45:33]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [45:33]
Marc Maron
Or I was taking a drink at somebody's kitchen while everyone's in the backyard, and I found a bottle somewhere, and I'm afraid that somebody might walk in, and I'd be like, hey, oh, what's going on? You know, every moment, I, I, I just would say to myself, you're an alcoholic. You, dude, this is bad.
- [45:49]
Nick Thune
I just have this one memory of going to a wedding with my wife with Kim, back in the day. And it was like, you know, we were in Boston. It was maybe. And I think it was down on the Cape. And, like, before we got to the wedding, I took two Ativans. Right. But then I get to the wedding, and right away I go to the bar and I do two shots of scotch and. And then I, I lost the evening. Like, you know, I smoked some weed. Apparently, I set my arm on fire. You know, it was.
- [46:25]
Marc Maron
That's like a party trick or on accident.
- [46:27]
Nick Thune
No, on accident. And like, you know, there were just a whole evening went by, and I woke up the next day at the bed and breakfast, and everybody at the breakfast table was, like, looking at me, like, weird. And then someone walked in and said, why is there a car parked on the lawn? I'd done that, but, you know, but everyone was driving with me. Someone let me drive, but. But I, I could not put together that evening, but like, just to drink two shots at the get go on Ativan. On two of those, I was gone, dude.
- [47:03]
Marc Maron
And.
- [47:03]
Nick Thune
And that was like, you know, I felt like shit. And then, you know, then you're with the person that knows you have a problem and somehow allowed you to. To get to this place again.
- [47:15]
Marc Maron
Mixing the benzos and alcohol is bad. Yeah. I mean, I remember one time. This. This. I'll never forget this. For some reason. These.
- [47:22]
Nick Thune
You'll never forget the action, but you forget what happened.
- [47:24]
Marc Maron
Yes, but I was walking in Manhattan with like, Natasha Leggero.
- [47:28]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [47:28]
Marc Maron
And I pulled out like one of those, like, sticks of. Not Ativan, but whatever. The other one is Ativan, I guess, but. And I said, hey, do you want one? She was like, no. And can you not take it too? Like, why do you need that? And then I did.
- [47:46]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [47:47]
Marc Maron
And it was just like. You know what?
- [47:50]
Nick Thune
It's weird, that moment, the moments you have with normies where you're kind of trying to justify your thing and they're like, what's wrong with you? It's morning and you're like, what do you mean?
- [48:01]
Marc Maron
We're going to meet friends for dinner.
- [48:04]
Nick Thune
Why? What do you mean? Of course I'm gonna. Those moments with normal people were always the most brutal because you defend it. And you really think, because your alcoholic brain, that you're like, this is what we do.
- [48:17]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [48:18]
Nick Thune
But you're not thinking. Cause I'm an alcoholic. You're like, of course. I mean, what do you mean?
- [48:22]
Marc Maron
Well, and also, if they're the normal person, though, that you're out with for a night and they're letting loose because you're the guy they let loose with.
- [48:29]
Nick Thune
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
- [48:30]
Marc Maron
And then their wives are like, you can't hang out with Nick ever. I mean, especially on weekdays because this is bad.
- [48:37]
Nick Thune
Because, you know, it started Wednesday.
- [48:39]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [48:39]
Nick Thune
Now it's Saturday.
- [48:40]
Marc Maron
And you. You wait. You were at his. He has an office in Glass Hill Park. Well, yeah. He needs to have a place to drink more. I had a storefront in Glassdale park that I was just.
- [48:50]
Nick Thune
Just to drink in.
- [48:51]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [48:51]
Nick Thune
Where'd you get that turquoise ring? That's a good one. That's a big one.
- [48:54]
Marc Maron
I got this big guy in Nashville.
- [48:56]
Nick Thune
Because I got my little Zuni one.
- [48:58]
Marc Maron
Yeah, I love that.
- [48:59]
Nick Thune
Yeah. I had another one, but I lost a stone out of it.
- [49:02]
Marc Maron
I got this in Nashville. And my girlfriend, well, she got me both these, actually. But. Yeah.
- [49:07]
Nick Thune
Oh, yeah, those are. Those are real New Mexico. They're big, too. But you're big guy. But okay, so you're. You're drinking a fifth and a half a day, but, like, after the Margarita Point, how many. How many years into your daily maintenance drinking did you have the kid?
- [49:28]
Marc Maron
Well, I stopped drinking when he was five, so I guess five years into it, five years in, I had the kid.
- [49:36]
Nick Thune
Wow.
- [49:37]
Marc Maron
And then I. At 33. Yeah, 33, I had him. And it. At that point, I remember I had a friend bring me scotch at the hospital, and I made it seem like, hey, we gotta celebrate. Yeah. But it was like, really, like, I need scotch at Cedar Sinai, and I. I don't know how to get it in here, and I can't think of a great excuse for me to go get it right now.
- [50:01]
Nick Thune
Wow.
- [50:01]
Marc Maron
And it was like. Yeah. And I needed it. I could feel myself itchy going. And then. I mean, but the itchy got really bad. And then to where one time I thought I was getting sick. Like, I thought I was, like, having a stomach flu. And then it turns out I just didn't drink for half a day.
- [50:22]
Nick Thune
How long did it take to get you that way? About half a day of just starting to drink again?
- [50:30]
Marc Maron
Oh, no, I was like. I was drinking as I was vomiting. I was like, vomiting. I was like, I gotta have drinks. That's gotta be the reason.
- [50:36]
Nick Thune
But I mean, like, once you started to drink again, how long did it take before you needed it so desperately?
- [50:41]
Marc Maron
I don't think that that was the last three years, I think, of drinking that I really needed it that bad.
- [50:47]
Nick Thune
And when did I see you? In Montreal?
- [50:49]
Marc Maron
Bottles hid everywhere. That was the summer before I got sober.
- [50:55]
Nick Thune
So the marriage was done?
- [50:57]
Marc Maron
We're still married, but, yeah, it was. It was definitely done.
- [51:00]
Nick Thune
Yeah. Because, like, I just. I was like, who is this guy?
- [51:05]
Marc Maron
I.
- [51:06]
Nick Thune
And that was nine years in.
- [51:07]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [51:08]
Nick Thune
Oh, my God. So how long did the. Before. You know, the separation after you had the kid?
- [51:18]
Marc Maron
Oh, well, I was living there personal. No, I was living there still.
- [51:21]
Nick Thune
And.
- [51:21]
Marc Maron
And everything, you know, and into rehab. It was like. I think that. I think that a lot of people around me were trying not to rock the boat too much, you know? Like, I think people wanted me to get help, and they. They knew that I wasn't going to do it unless I found it on my own.
- [51:34]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [51:34]
Marc Maron
And I got Lyme's disease.
- [51:36]
Nick Thune
Oh, my God.
- [51:37]
Marc Maron
In Bloomington, what'd you go out and.
- [51:39]
Nick Thune
Did you fall asleep in the woods?
- [51:41]
Marc Maron
I. Well, I went out in the woods to find that. That rock that they jump off of in that movie Breaking Away.
- [51:46]
Nick Thune
Oh, because you were going to jump.
- [51:47]
Marc Maron
Off the rock and I did. I found it. And it was great. Beautiful. Into that quarry you jumped off.
- [51:53]
Nick Thune
Yeah, that was nice. Still there and everything.
- [51:55]
Marc Maron
No, not anymore. Now they just blew it up like a year or two ago. And it's gone. But it's on a private property. I found it. But also I found a. So when you saw me Montreal, I had no idea, but I had a tick in my hairline.
- [52:08]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [52:09]
Marc Maron
That was, like, just barely in there that somebody saw eventually. And. And then I didn't do anything about it. And then all of a sudden I had these, you know, lesions on my arm that I just finally went to the doctor and like, yeah, you've got Lyme disease. And so they had to take my blood. And when I, when they got my blood back, they were like, listen, there's something more going on here. And it's. It seems like you might think that alcohol is going to fix Lyme disease, but it's not.
- [52:37]
Nick Thune
Well, that's how they framed it.
- [52:39]
Marc Maron
No, that's in my mind. I was like, oh. I thought part of my. But yeah, when you're taking antibiotics and alcohol weirdly doesn't. Do they really mean it when they don't. When they say, don't do that.
- [52:51]
Nick Thune
Yeah. Why? Because they don't work.
- [52:52]
Marc Maron
They don't work at all. Yeah, yeah. And. But I was, I forget the number, but he said, yeah, you have 360 enzymes in your liver. And I said, oh, okay, well, what's normal? I was thinking like 320, you know, he said 6.
- [53:10]
Nick Thune
So your liver was crapping out.
- [53:11]
Marc Maron
Yeah. And my friend had just died from this. My friend Richard Swift, who's an amazing musician, died the same of that. And I knew that moment at my doctor that that's me, and I need to go. I need to go to rehab. And I, I, I got a hold of Becky and next thing you know, he was sober. Yeah. Yeah.
- [53:35]
Nick Thune
Oh, my God. Were you still with him?
- [53:37]
Marc Maron
Huh?
- [53:38]
Nick Thune
Oh, are you still now?
- [53:39]
Marc Maron
Huh?
- [53:40]
Nick Thune
No shit.
- [53:40]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [53:41]
Nick Thune
Well, that's good.
- [53:42]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [53:42]
Nick Thune
To have a profoundly sober manager.
- [53:45]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Yeah.
- [53:46]
Nick Thune
Who you knew as a fuck up.
- [53:47]
Marc Maron
Knew. Knew before and after.
- [53:49]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [53:50]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [53:51]
Nick Thune
Wild.
- [53:52]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, he got me into. My friend Kevin, too, was involved. I think I called Kevin first and then he called Dave, Becky. But, yeah, they got me in. And then two years, two days. Not two days, two days later, they had to take me to the hospital because they found me, you know, naked in the backyard at this rehab with, you know, seizuring tremors. And I woke up in, like, the San Joaquinta Hospital or something like that.
- [54:19]
Nick Thune
Yeah, they didn't. They weren't tapering you off in the rehab.
- [54:26]
Marc Maron
They were. No, they. They don't taper you off with booze, but they give you Valium or whatever. Yeah, that and also benzos. And then there's another one that. I forget what it's called, but to help with seizuring. But they. You know, their whole thing is, like, we just want to make it comfortable for you and keep you alive. But once they can't do that anymore, which they couldn't. You know, they tried it all. I was.
- [54:47]
Nick Thune
The seizures were so bad.
- [54:48]
Marc Maron
Yeah. And I was. I was talking to the TV remote, like, making phone calls. Oh. So, yeah, I was having meetings out at a table. Massive hallucination. Hallucinations. Like, I remember I was playing this town's Van Zant song. They had a guitar there.
- [55:04]
Nick Thune
That always helps with alcoholism. Play as much Towns Van Zant as you should.
- [55:08]
Marc Maron
I was ripping through a song in my room. Loretta or some song, and. And they came in. They were like, hey, can you. We're running a rehab out here, and you're screaming some song in here, and it doesn't sound good. Yeah, it doesn't.
- [55:24]
Nick Thune
You thought you were nailing it, though.
- [55:25]
Marc Maron
Felt like, yeah, I'm in top of my game. But, yeah, I remember. And I actually called Al Madrigal when I was in the hospital. I don't even know how or why, but he told me later, and because I. I think I had a show or something, some calendar event popped up on my phone, and I called him, like, hey, I can't make the show, buddy. And then all of a sudden, he's like, what? Something seems very off.
- [55:48]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [55:49]
Marc Maron
Like, yeah, I'm in the hospital.
- [55:52]
Nick Thune
I. I had. There was one scene where I was in a blackout where I honestly think I was drugged in New York. But it's really hard to tell when you're an alcoholic and you're in it.
- [56:00]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [56:00]
Nick Thune
Because I. I thought I was roofied by this. This weird couple, and that they took me to an apartment and sexually abused me. That's what I believe, and I still believe it. I feel like I was drugged by these two people. And I was a grown man, and I was married, and I was living in New York, and it was a full blackout. And at some point, because I got up, I was. I came to the next day, and my wife was, you know. You know, she was about to call the police. I was missing And I'm like, yeah, I don't know what happened. I think, you know, I don't know, but I have, like, a bad feeling and whatever. And then she plays this, a message I'd left on the machine. And it literally said, I'll be home as soon as I get out of this dream.
- [56:53]
Marc Maron
That's nice.
- [56:55]
Nick Thune
Fuck, man. Poetic, comforting. I'm sure that made her feel pretty good about, you know, like, he's okay.
- [57:01]
Marc Maron
Oh, yeah.
- [57:01]
Nick Thune
He'll be home when he's out of the dream.
- [57:03]
Marc Maron
Oh, wow. He's very. He's actually very, you know, lucid. Yeah. Very thoughtful.
- [57:07]
Nick Thune
Oh, yeah. It's real poetry. Fucking nightmare. And I remember trying to write down something and. Because that's why I think I was drugged and not just blacked out. Cause, like, I was trying to write where I was or I was gonna. You know, I don't. And I couldn't write. And I was. You know, I have. I think I've processed that. I don't really know. Nothing horrible happened. It's not like I woke up with, you know, blood coming out of my ass or anything, but I do feel like something weird, like I was brought to a party that I had no control over.
- [57:38]
Marc Maron
And the. Whatever happened at that party, who the fuck knows? I don't know. I've. One of my, you know. You have moments like that. I remember, like, there was a birthday party that I went to, and the next morning I was, like, woke up and I didn't know how I got home.
- [57:51]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [57:52]
Marc Maron
And I had talked to. I know the last person I was talking to was Tim Heidecker.
- [57:57]
Nick Thune
Yeah. Right.
- [57:59]
Marc Maron
And so I text him. I was like, hey, man, sorry about last night. Just assuming that he would be like, yeah, here's what happened.
- [58:06]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [58:06]
Marc Maron
He just said, I understand, buddy. And I thought, okay, well, I'm not going to ask any deeper about that.
- [58:15]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [58:17]
Marc Maron
Rather not him. Refresh his memory.
- [58:19]
Nick Thune
Yeah. Right. Yeah. Betty, you didn't know. Yeah. I don't know that I was a massive blackout guy, but I definitely had enough of them. And they were scary enough to me that they didn't happen that much.
- [58:31]
Marc Maron
They were happening daily for me. At the end, it was like that thing. You just knew. You knew it was gonna happen. You just. I knew at some point.
- [58:40]
Nick Thune
When does your family give up on you?
- [58:42]
Marc Maron
I think they were in the midst of it. I think that it was really becoming a. A reality and that everybody was aware and I didn't know how much everybody was.
- [58:52]
Nick Thune
Were you. Were you physically unwell? Did your skin look bad. Yeah. Were you kind of brown?
- [58:57]
Marc Maron
Yeah. And. And. And also I had the Lyme sting. So, like, I was, like, in bed for.
- [59:02]
Nick Thune
But you didn't get congestive heart failure and that shit.
- [59:05]
Marc Maron
No.
- [59:05]
Nick Thune
That's good.
- [59:06]
Marc Maron
But I was in bed once for a week.
- [59:08]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [59:08]
Marc Maron
And just blamed it on, like, oh, my joints and all these things from the. You know.
- [59:11]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [59:12]
Marc Maron
That tick.
- [59:13]
Nick Thune
Oh, my God.
- [59:14]
Marc Maron
But I mean. And I'm sure part of it was that.
- [59:16]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [59:16]
Marc Maron
You know, and then at one point, my wife left with my son, and my dad came and took care of me for a couple weeks, and I don't. That's just a real haze. I don't remember much of that.
- [59:26]
Nick Thune
Wow. How old are you now?
- [59:28]
Marc Maron
45.
- [59:29]
Nick Thune
Man, you really did it. Good for you.
- [59:31]
Marc Maron
I'm.
- [59:32]
Nick Thune
You really went as far as you could go.
- [59:33]
Marc Maron
I know, and I'm so happy now. I mean, it's not, you know, not all the time or very little, actually, to be honest, but I. I'm so happy that I got through that.
- [59:43]
Nick Thune
You're not living that life. Well, I mean, that's why I framed it like. Because we had had a conversation, and, you know, there's something always interesting to me about true believers who eventually get off the path that I always assume when I saw you in Montreal, which was, you know, it seems at the end of this fucking horrendous period that, you know, like, you were just, you know, in hell and actively struggling with your faith, but that. I don't know if that's true.
- [60:10]
Marc Maron
Yeah. I mean, I was struggling with just, you know, especially when you're a dad and, you know, you're doing this. And so the concept of. I used to believe in all this stuff, and I used to. What happened? You know, like. And you're constantly wondering, what did I believe in it, you know, and it's such a weird thing to, like, consider doubt in faith.
- [60:33]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [60:34]
Marc Maron
That's another thing that a pastor can never acknowledge, the thing that every single human would have at least once a day.
- [60:39]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [60:40]
Marc Maron
Doubt in the. There's a God. Or not.
- [60:42]
Nick Thune
Yeah. Right.
- [60:43]
Marc Maron
You know, like, they can't ever say it, but. Yeah, I. And then when I got sober, that's when I realized, oh, God, there is a God.
- [60:51]
Nick Thune
Yeah. It came back. It came back.
- [60:53]
Marc Maron
Oh, my God. And thank God he took care of me. I didn't get a dui. I didn't get all the things I should have gotten. Death dui.
- [60:59]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [61:01]
Marc Maron
I made it through.
- [61:02]
Nick Thune
You just have the tick reminder. He sent a tick.
- [61:06]
Marc Maron
He always sends Something, you know, so great. He did send that tick.
- [61:14]
Nick Thune
The tick. You didn't notice. And now you have this chronic ailment that'll be a reminder of a very bad time.
- [61:21]
Marc Maron
No, I got through it. I got. Because immediately I was on full things.
- [61:26]
Nick Thune
You're clean of it?
- [61:27]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [61:27]
Nick Thune
They can do that?
- [61:28]
Marc Maron
Yeah, if you catch it early enough.
- [61:30]
Nick Thune
Okay.
- [61:31]
Marc Maron
Some people have it for years and they find it.
- [61:33]
Nick Thune
I've heard horrible stuff. I have, too, about, you know, when you can't get rid of it, and.
- [61:38]
Marc Maron
It makes me worried. Did I get rid of it? What?
- [61:41]
Nick Thune
You know, how do you know?
- [61:42]
Marc Maron
I don't know. And it seems like the doctors don't.
- [61:44]
Nick Thune
Either, but that's always a bad moment.
- [61:47]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [61:47]
Nick Thune
When the doctor doesn't know.
- [61:49]
Marc Maron
It's one of those things. It's like fibromyalgia or something where they're like. Well, we're pretty sure it exists. We have a hard time detecting it or fully explaining it, but.
- [61:57]
Nick Thune
Yeah, but you haven't had any symptoms.
- [62:00]
Marc Maron
100,000 people can't be lying right now, Right?
- [62:02]
Nick Thune
No symptoms, though.
- [62:03]
Marc Maron
No, no.
- [62:05]
Nick Thune
That's good.
- [62:06]
Marc Maron
So, okay, I'm having symptoms from quitting nicotine. It's. Especially when I see a little Zen.
- [62:12]
Nick Thune
I'm so, like. I go on and off this so much and, like, in it always. It's like. I try to explain it to people, but when you're an addict and, you know, you start these things, like, I didn't have. I was off nicotine totally for years, and then I smoked a couple cigars, and I had to get off of them. And then I got on these, and I thought, like, well, these are good. They're not tobacco, and they're working for me. So it. You know, why not do them? And. But then all of a sudden, you know, you're finding the empty. The used ones, you know, the ones that you've sucked all the nicotine out of. Yeah, they're everywhere.
- [62:41]
Marc Maron
Oh, God.
- [62:41]
Nick Thune
They're in my pockets. They're under my pillows. I'm like, am I not paying attention?
- [62:45]
Marc Maron
I thought you did lozenges.
- [62:47]
Nick Thune
I did, but they started my stomach and. And I. I liked them, but I didn't. These ones seem cleaner than lozenges because the lozenges are, you know, they're. They're in the thing that makes them. A lozenge has, you know, some, like, mannitol or some of those sugars that, like, kind of can with your stomach. So I like. As opposed to stopping, I'm like, I'm gonna try these. Maybe they won't with my stomach.
- [63:08]
Marc Maron
Do you. I mean, do you wear. Do you do that on stage?
- [63:12]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [63:12]
Marc Maron
Do you wear one on stage?
- [63:13]
Nick Thune
Like, I'll change them on stage, dude.
- [63:15]
Marc Maron
Oh, really?
- [63:15]
Nick Thune
I'm at that point of addiction where at some point, like, 45 minutes in, I'll be like, I gotta. I gotta switch my Zen out.
- [63:21]
Marc Maron
See, I went from Copenhagen to Zen.
- [63:24]
Nick Thune
See, I can't do the chew. Were you doing it loose?
- [63:26]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [63:26]
Nick Thune
Or in pouches?
- [63:27]
Marc Maron
No, loose.
- [63:28]
Nick Thune
Did you grow up with that?
- [63:29]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [63:29]
Nick Thune
Oh, okay. So you know how to do it.
- [63:31]
Marc Maron
That was the first thing I did before smoking. And then I smoked. I mean, it was 30 years of nicotine until December. And then I. I got the stomach. I've been on and off, backed out.
- [63:39]
Nick Thune
I can never keep dip together in my mouth. It would always be almost vomiting thing every time. But the pouches make everything easy. When I see Nate, I can't be. He does those pouches. And I tell him that story all the time, that after he opened for me at Carnegie hall, we did this big show at Carnegie hall. And I just remember him on the street giving me. I'm like, yeah, pouch. And he's like. He had, like, six left in this container. He says, just take all these. And I'm like, oh, my God, this is the best part of the night.
- [64:10]
Marc Maron
He said the exact. He gave me a thing of him right before I quit at some hotel. We were, like, getting off the elevator. It was like the end of a weekend of shows. And I was like, can I get one pouch?
- [64:21]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [64:21]
Marc Maron
And he's like, just take him, buddy.
- [64:22]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [64:25]
Marc Maron
I just walked out of the elevator. I was like, all right, well, I'll see you next weekend, I guess, or wherever.
- [64:30]
Nick Thune
I think he has it. There's something entertaining about the nature of. Of the addicts around him. Like, he kind of. He operates at an even keel. I don't think he drinks anymore. So, like, you know, he's kind of licked this thing through. God, or whatever. But he still knows, you know, he knows the hunger, you know, to be like. It was funny because he gave me one. And his. I don't know, his publicist or whoever, he travels. She goes, I've never seen anyone ask him for one of those. And Nate was sort of like, well, he's an addict, you know. Yeah.
- [65:03]
Marc Maron
He likes to point that out about me a lot as well.
- [65:05]
Nick Thune
I know, I know. As he shovels a pizza into his face, he was.
- [65:10]
Marc Maron
He was also involved in some way in getting me into rehab. But he. I never want to ask him about it because I just don't like hearing about it. It's like that Jackson Brown lyric of, like, don't remind me of my failures because I've forgotten them. It's like, wow, I don't want to hear this.
- [65:25]
Nick Thune
I revisit mine constantly.
- [65:27]
Marc Maron
Yeah, that's.
- [65:28]
Nick Thune
It's one of my hobbies, you know, like, the. The feeling of, like. But as I get older, like, they. They don't affect me the same way, you know, like. But the discomfort, usually it's the embarrassment or the shame, you know, of it that, you know, is where the juice is on that, you know, to. And I had. I had something happen the other day where it was like, this was a horrible kind of feeling that some guy had asked me. It was a gig, you know, and it was. You know, it was kind of interesting because something good came out of it. I don't know if I can explain it. Like, I was in south by Two, you know, they were premiering this doc about me, and I, you know, and this guy was doing an event at Soho House, you know, that they had reached out to me about. Like, it was. The idea was, we're going to listen. You're going to pick some vinyl, and we're gonna pick five songs off of five different records, and we're gonna get a group of people together, like a show almost. And you're gonna explain why the songs mean something to you, and then we'll sit and listen to the songs. And I'm like, well, that sounds kind of thoughtful and nice.
- [66:35]
Marc Maron
Yeah, it sounds fun, right?
- [66:36]
Nick Thune
But then I'm at Soho House, and it turns out it's this kid's first time doing this. He's got no real stage chops. He's kind of put it together, you know, he's got a turntable out there and two chairs. And we're waiting in this room adjacent to the room where it's going to be. And I just hear, like, Soho House. People like, drinking and laughing, and I'm like, what are we doing? I picked some pretty sweet, you know, sad songs. And we're just going to sit here, you know, and. And I walk out in this room, there's some bros, you know, with their wives or girlfriends. It's like, you know, young professionals. It's a Soho House scene.
- [67:09]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [67:09]
Nick Thune
And I'm just this old fucking, you know, not normal Jewish comedian. I don't even know if they knew who I am or they thought I was a professor. It's not clear to me.
- [67:18]
Marc Maron
Yeah, that's nice that you could be either unknown or a professor.
- [67:22]
Nick Thune
Sure.
- [67:22]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [67:22]
Nick Thune
Yeah. Like this guy. He's a music guy. No, I'm not. I'm just a guy. And I picked all these songs and, like, I judged them pretty heavily that. How are we going to pull this off? Because there's something innately uncomfortable. Even if I brought you into the house, I said, you got to listen to this. You know, five, you know, a minute into me turning you on to music, I'm going to be like, do you. Is it. Do you like it? Or, you know, do you want to? You're like, well, I'll just turn it off. I won't even make it through the song. There's a fundamental insecurity and vulnerability to that experience. And now in a room, I'm in a room full of, you know. You know, Texans. It's mixed, but like. But it's like Soho House. And I'm sitting there, you know, playing like, you know, Randy Newman's guilty, you know, and. But you know what?
- [68:07]
Marc Maron
When you're pulling out Randy Newman, dude, it's that you want people to listen and hear it.
- [68:11]
Nick Thune
Yes.
- [68:11]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [68:12]
Nick Thune
Yeah. And. But you know what? You know, I was really kind of amazed and humbled by the fact, like, there was a guy sitting right up front. How I looked at him. I said, there's no way I would even have a conversation with this guy. I don't know what he thinks. But we're opposite men. And, you know, and I'm riffing and stuff, and he's fucking laughing his balls off, you know, and everybody played along with this thing. They sat and they listened, this group of, like, you know, midday. And I was sort of like, dude, you gotta, like, you gotta ease up on this. You know, the people aren't all what you think they are. Yeah, everybody's complex, you know, Everybody, you know, nobody is, you know, that, you know, set in their ways, you know, then they wanted. They were willing to have this experience or at least try. And I was the one that was uncomfortable.
- [68:56]
Marc Maron
It's funny, though, with stage, because your experience of audiences and stage stuff, you saw that and you thought, this doesn't add up to positive, right?
- [69:04]
Nick Thune
Or it's just going to be, like, awkward. Like, I don't mind negative awkward. I could do without, you know, this one thing you want to, you know, avoid. But it was awkward. But. But I just, like, I. I have enough life behind me where I'm like, dude, just, you know, just, you know, play along with this. This kid didn't know what he was getting into. He didn't really necessarily set it up quite right. But, you know, you. You can handle this. We just got to get through 45 minutes. And you like these songs and just talk about them and get some laughs. But I did. But it was really the most weirdly vulnerable position I've been in on stage in years. Just like, knowing that, like, well, we got two more minutes of this song, and I'm.
- [69:47]
Marc Maron
They're listening to it. Like, he really wants us to get a message out of this.
- [69:50]
Nick Thune
That's right. They're like, why does he. He like this? You know, but they all were. But, like, it was hard for me not to be like, all right, so anyway, we can turn off.
- [69:57]
Marc Maron
Yeah, that's how whenever I show somebody a song, I always, like, cut it off halfway through. So anyway. And they're like, just let me hear it. It's like, well, I didn't know if you liked it.
- [70:05]
Nick Thune
All that weird insecurity that we're projecting. And I played a Peter Green Fleetwood Mac song. And like, the interesting thing was about that song because it's. It's a beautiful, amazing song, guitar wise, lyrically. And him, he's an interesting character, but it's like, it gets. It gets me pretty deep. And I played that one, and I knew. I'm sort of like, I'm in Texas. You guys like blues, right? And I played that, and there's no beating that guitar on that thing. But these women came up to me like, what was the name of that one? Because that one really did something, you know, and it's just like, you know, regular people. And I'm like, oh, yeah, well, that's Peter Green. I don't know if they'll go out and buy the record.
- [70:41]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [70:42]
Nick Thune
But it landed.
- [70:43]
Marc Maron
That feels good.
- [70:44]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [70:45]
Marc Maron
You know, especially turning somebody on to.
- [70:47]
Nick Thune
Something, but God damn it. But the point was, it's just that. That. That awkwardness, you know, in, like, you know, in public, but. And you sing. I mean, I'm still, like, you know, relatively terrified to. To play and sing. And I can do it all right, but not confidently. I can't own it because I. It's just so vulnerable to me.
- [71:10]
Marc Maron
And it's. It's. It's. And it's. It's against what we're doing on stage as stand up. You know, you're kind of waiting.
- [71:16]
Nick Thune
And, like, I choke up when I got to play leads because I don't think I'm good enough. And, like, you know, I can't just, like, kind of relax into it. Like, we do stand up and I try, you know, I, and I, I think I'm getting a little better, but it's slow, man.
- [71:27]
Marc Maron
I, I, I wrote, I had a real prolific moment of writing like 10 songs that I really liked that I thought were great. And I show. Yeah. You know, with a twist to them or whatever, but, but serious.
- [71:39]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [71:39]
Marc Maron
And I did a show at Permanent Records and I, I had like a band out back and I know.
- [71:44]
Nick Thune
Oh, in the inside.
- [71:45]
Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah, inside it. Which reminds me of this place in Cleveland. It's like such a cool bar.
- [71:49]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [71:51]
Marc Maron
And I went through five of them there and it was the most nerve wracking. I, I was so nervous leading up to it. The rehearsals and everyone in the band's like, these are great songs, dude. This is going to be fun.
- [72:03]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [72:03]
Marc Maron
I'm like, really? Are you sure?
- [72:06]
Nick Thune
Yeah, me too. Always when I play with people. Yeah.
- [72:08]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [72:09]
Nick Thune
But we forget that, you know, as comics, you really need everyone's attention in a very specific way, like, for real. And the idea that, like, when you're playing music, even if you have that kind of attention, then your own insecurity is sort of like, I gotta get through this.
- [72:23]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [72:24]
Nick Thune
But if people are talking or they're not paying attention, they're ordering drinks and you're like, oh, they don't like it. Like, you know, the, the kind of place you've got to hold, you know, when you're playing music and not think about that stuff is much different, you know, because it's music. You know, they'll, they'll be in and out, whatever.
- [72:38]
Marc Maron
Yeah, it's this, it's. There's noise, there's drinks.
- [72:41]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [72:42]
Marc Maron
It's weird. I did that. I did this show recently where I sang the Weight.
- [72:46]
Nick Thune
Oh, yeah.
- [72:47]
Marc Maron
With. But it was with the, you know, the David Wayne's band, Ken Marino, their dad band. Dad band or whatever. And it was. I sang the first verse and then was in the song. But it was, it was amazing because it was the closing song and it just is the easiest song. And I walked out of that thinking, yeah, I could do that. I could be a rock star.
- [73:09]
Nick Thune
Sure. Well, that's the other thing. Like, also, if you, like, they're pretty honest about where they're coming from. But I still got this thing that's sort of like, I gotta make it my own. I'm not just some sad late boomer doing cover songs. I want to be the real deal. I don't want this just to be a hobby. If I'm going To do it, which it is anyways. But I'd like to have. Because I have a way of playing. I don't try to play like a record. Yeah. I'm not concerned with that. That I'm an interpreter out of my lack of skill.
- [73:38]
Marc Maron
Yeah. That's a good way to put it.
- [73:41]
Nick Thune
Yeah. And I, and I want, and I want that to be enough, but it's.
- [73:44]
Marc Maron
Not lack of skill. It's just different skill. It's like, it's like you're.
- [73:47]
Nick Thune
Yeah. It's not.
- [73:48]
Marc Maron
It's because there's definitely skill there.
- [73:50]
Nick Thune
Yeah. Yeah. But like, you know, I'm limited.
- [73:52]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [73:53]
Nick Thune
And I always judge myself against these 12 year olds on Instagram. I'm like, oh my God, why can't I just practice a little more?
- [73:59]
Marc Maron
I. I got, I went the other day, I just looked up licks and see.
- [74:03]
Nick Thune
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
- [74:04]
Marc Maron
I was like, I want to just learn a couple more licks.
- [74:06]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [74:06]
Marc Maron
And I went through it and I was like, wow, this guy's some 14 year old kid. And I thought, how's he. What?
- [74:14]
Nick Thune
I know.
- [74:14]
Marc Maron
Okay.
- [74:15]
Nick Thune
I know. And then you got to lean, like. But I feel them. I feel the ones I have.
- [74:18]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [74:19]
Nick Thune
I feel these licks.
- [74:20]
Marc Maron
I've been playing the same ones for me too. Yeah.
- [74:22]
Nick Thune
You know, I add a couple, you know, and I've done, you know, I'm trying to do a little more major scale stuff, but that's not country like, you know, working those Mixolydians into the blues. But it's not satisfying to me, you know, And I hear, even when people play it, I'm like, I don't know about that note. But, you know, but after a certain point, unless you're really going to be like, I'm going to practice two hours a day, you know, and I'm going to. I'm going to work on these runs, you know, I'm going to learn new chords.
- [74:48]
Marc Maron
I did that over the Pandemic.
- [74:49]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [74:50]
Marc Maron
I learned how to Travis pick. I learned a few things. I was like, I really want to.
- [74:53]
Nick Thune
You can do it.
- [74:53]
Marc Maron
Yeah. I thought, I really want to.
- [74:55]
Nick Thune
Like, I've tried to do it, but you got to keep doing it.
- [74:57]
Marc Maron
Yeah. And I'm not. Like, even now I haven't been doing it. And I tried the other day and it's like, oh, I can still do it, but I can't.
- [75:02]
Nick Thune
Those guys that can do it without thinking, like, for me to play and sing at the same time, if the lick is a little complicated, it's a mess.
- [75:08]
Marc Maron
Got to throw Them? Yeah. To throw the. The melody into the bass and all that.
- [75:13]
Nick Thune
Yeah, it's a mess.
- [75:14]
Marc Maron
That's why. That movie Inside, the Llewyn Davis movie. That guy, that actor, Isaac.
- [75:21]
Nick Thune
What's his name?
- [75:22]
Marc Maron
Yeah, he learned how to do that.
- [75:23]
Nick Thune
Oscar Isaac.
- [75:24]
Marc Maron
Yeah. I saw an interview. He's like, yeah, I learned how to Travis pick when I got the part. And I was like, I'm gonna learn how to Travis pick. That sounds cool. And I was like, wow. He learned that and then performed. I mean. Yeah.
- [75:34]
Nick Thune
So did Chalamet, I think. Well, I know. I think that Dylan's more of a flat picker, but. But yeah, it's kind of, you know, you can get it, and when you get it, you're like, I'm doing it. But then, like, to start singing on top of it. Good luck.
- [75:45]
Marc Maron
No, no. And it's beautiful like. Like the way that Townes Van Zant plays guitar, especially when he's in his older years where he doesn't really care that much.
- [75:53]
Nick Thune
Oh, he's so drunk. Drunk, too.
- [75:55]
Marc Maron
I know. And it's so sloppy, the guitar, but it's also amazing, the guitar. It's so weird. It's like he's trying to be offensive with an acoustic guitar, and it's rhythmically like you.
- [76:05]
Nick Thune
Acoustic.
- [76:06]
Marc Maron
Yeah, exactly.
- [76:10]
Nick Thune
But so, okay, so you hit the wall. You did the rehab, but they took you to the hospital, and then they finally got it out of you.
- [76:17]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [76:17]
Nick Thune
And then you just, you know, locked in.
- [76:19]
Marc Maron
I had a nice 60 days in rehab.
- [76:21]
Nick Thune
Oh, wow. Big.
- [76:22]
Marc Maron
I loved it.
- [76:23]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [76:23]
Marc Maron
I mean, and I care. I was doing it, you know.
- [76:26]
Nick Thune
Sure.
- [76:26]
Marc Maron
But I got. You know, it's funny, this comes from the Montreal thing, too. I got a call from my. My standup agent when I was in there, and he didn't know I was in rehab.
- [76:34]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [76:34]
Marc Maron
And I. He was like, hey, buddy, I just wanted to call and confirm that. That Mexico tour that you agreed to do. And I was like, what? And he goes, yeah, in Montreal, you met those two guys from Mexico and agreed to do a tour with them. And then they sent an offer, and I just said, I mean, yeah, sure, I'll do it. So, like, the first stand up I did, really, after getting sober, was a tour of Mexico. These two guys that I agreed to, like, on cocaine and.
- [76:59]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [77:00]
Marc Maron
Who knows what I was on?
- [77:01]
Nick Thune
Yeah. And how'd that go?
- [77:03]
Marc Maron
Fun as hell.
- [77:04]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [77:04]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [77:05]
Nick Thune
Stayed sober.
- [77:06]
Marc Maron
Stayed sober. They. They were. They made it their mission to keep me sober, you know? Like, they were really Mexican meetings. Didn't have any time. Oh, it was really a. Like a. We're getting in the car and driving. It was fun.
- [77:17]
Nick Thune
Oh, that's great.
- [77:18]
Marc Maron
Like weird, small cities.
- [77:19]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [77:20]
Marc Maron
They said that comedians come down and do Mexico City. They do, like, you know, the basics, but no one had. Had really done what I was, like, doing one nighters. Yeah. Around.
- [77:30]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [77:30]
Marc Maron
It was fun. And the guy that opening for me was Roberto Flores. He was doing. He was doing all Spanish.
- [77:38]
Nick Thune
Yeah, but they got you some cities.
- [77:42]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [77:45]
Nick Thune
And so. But I guess that's helpful, ultimately, when you enter recovery, to have a God in place.
- [77:54]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [77:55]
Nick Thune
As opposed to like, hey, man. Because everyone freaks out. It's like, well, the God thing, if that's not an issue, that's a big chunk out.
- [78:03]
Marc Maron
All of the things were not an issue. Admitting I had lost control. I mean, I knew I lost control that night at the hotel in Las Vegas. Knew that I was out of, you know, so all of those things, I was just like. It was just like my hands were up and I was like, let me help me get through these steps and then let's do this.
- [78:19]
Nick Thune
And how'd you rebuild with the. The ex wife and the kid? Was the kid hip to it? Did you embarrass yourself in front of the kids?
- [78:27]
Marc Maron
No. And he was five. And that was. That was something somebody told me in rehab. They said, hey, my dad got sober when I was 5, and I don't remember him drinking at all, you know, and he knew that I was sick, I think, and that I was in the hospital. They didn't come visit or anything. I didn't really want them to.
- [78:44]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [78:45]
Marc Maron
And then I came out and it was Christmas time and. And things started moving, and then I moved in with some friends and. And over at Motion. Started a new life.
- [78:55]
Nick Thune
Yeah, yeah. In the back house or whatever.
- [78:57]
Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah. And I. And then the pandemic hit, and that was like, actually kind of a cool situation to be in. And we had a bubble. Yeah, we had a bubble.
- [79:07]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [79:08]
Marc Maron
And, yeah, that was it. But it was. Everything was tough to rebuild, you know, especially when, you know how people are hurt, you know, like. And you can't take that away. And just going around and doing the rounds of. Hey, I'm sorry. I just didn't want to do that either. I didn't want people to think that I was just doing.
- [79:29]
Nick Thune
Yeah, right.
- [79:31]
Marc Maron
The thing I'm obligated to do if I want to finish my steps.
- [79:35]
Nick Thune
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [79:35]
Marc Maron
You know.
- [79:36]
Nick Thune
Well, so that's beautiful. So it's a nice long haul. And now you tour with Nate all the time.
- [79:42]
Marc Maron
Yeah, sometimes. Yeah. I mean, he. I mean, I do my own stuff, too, but Nate has been really kind to take me out, and it's pretty fun.
- [79:49]
Nick Thune
I think he's assembling a crew of apostles.
- [79:53]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [79:54]
Nick Thune
Pretty soon he's going to be just touring with 12 guys.
- [79:56]
Marc Maron
He's assembling something.
- [79:58]
Nick Thune
I know, dude, I know. And we're all going to be on the ride.
- [80:02]
Marc Maron
Yeah, he's. I mean, he's really good. He's.
- [80:05]
Nick Thune
I love him.
- [80:05]
Marc Maron
It's fun, too, because it's fun to be on tour with somebody that when you tell people, they're like, oh, I love him.
- [80:12]
Nick Thune
Yeah, Well, I love him, too. Did you know I have for a long time. I get a real kick out of his comedy and he's always been a nice guy to me. We don't hang out much. Yeah, I had lunch with him at the Soho House in Nashville.
- [80:26]
Marc Maron
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the. So I had a lunch at the Soho House recently. I don't really do that too often.
- [80:31]
Nick Thune
I never do it. And now, because I did that, listen, in a records gig, I think I got a membership, so.
- [80:36]
Marc Maron
Oh, wow.
- [80:36]
Nick Thune
Yeah, for the year anyway. So.
- [80:38]
Marc Maron
Well, you can maybe run into Ice Cube or something.
- [80:40]
Nick Thune
I don't know what people do with those.
- [80:41]
Marc Maron
I don't know.
- [80:41]
Nick Thune
I have a nice house. Yeah.
- [80:43]
Marc Maron
I did a show there once.
- [80:44]
Nick Thune
Yeah. I don't know what it is, whatever. But. Well, the special is great. It was fun and, you know, I hope people watch it.
- [80:51]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Thanks. Me too.
- [80:53]
Nick Thune
And so what's the plan? Just a tour and.
- [80:55]
Marc Maron
Yeah, just tour.
- [80:57]
Nick Thune
Keep your together.
- [80:58]
Marc Maron
Right stuff. You know, I. I made a short film that's in festivals I think. Could be something bigger.
- [81:03]
Nick Thune
Yeah.
- [81:03]
Marc Maron
John C. Reilly's in it. It's kind of a cool thing.
- [81:05]
Nick Thune
All right.
- [81:06]
Marc Maron
Based off of the bit that's in my thing about the private eye at the end.
- [81:09]
Nick Thune
Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's. That's fun.
- [81:11]
Marc Maron
Yeah. He plays a private eye.
- [81:13]
Nick Thune
Oh, good, man. I'm glad you're well.
- [81:15]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Thank you.
- [81:15]
Nick Thune
Good talking to you.
- [81:16]
Marc Maron
You, too.
- [81:22]
Nick Thune
There you go. He's a heavy tail, man. I had no idea that he went through all that again. Nick's special, Born Young, is available on YouTube. Hang out for a minute. One thing that's not going to surprise you if you're a regular listener. We love la. Why wouldn't we? It's been the home of the show for 16 years and I've lived here for longer than that. And when you come to visit Los Angeles. No matter how long you're here, you'll be able to take in a lot of stuff I love about this place. Like there's the food. There are seemingly endless options from all sorts of cuisines and dining styles. Yeah, you got B Wally Vegan AF out here in Eagle Rock. You got Crossroads for the high end vegan food. A lot of stuff shopping here you go to Gimme Gimme Records if you want some records or Amoeba records or permanent records. And of course, there's no substitute for LA when it comes to the best entertainment. Get over to Hollywood Boulevard and see a star ceremony on the Walk of Fame or come see me and dozens of other comedians at the Comedy Store, which has world class comedy every night. LA. It's like 10 cities in one. If you come visit, I guarantee you'll love LA as much as I do. Find more ways to love LA@discoverla.com hey folks, I've been doing this a long time, more than 15 years, and I can tell you from firsthand experience, when I hear from my listeners, they not only know me, they know my sponsors. Research shows that 74% of listeners recall the brands they hear when listening to podcasts. So if you're a business owner or marketer and you want your business to be top of mind, podcast advertising with Acast is the way to go. If you're ready to be heard, run podcast ads with ACAST by visiting go.acast.com Marcus Folks, seven years ago this week I closed up shop in the old garage before moving out of my house in Highland Park. To commemorate the occasion, I did a little tour of the garage as I packed it up on episode 900. The first thing I'm looking at over here is these are the notes for the Obama interview. And I saved this thing from the Secret Service telephone trap sheets. Please fill out the blank spaces with as much information as possible. Special agents may sign as a witness and then bomb threat sheet. I don't know what all that meant, but as a page it looks pretty good. Oh, I see you had a checklist. I guess I checked this stuff I didn't fill out here. And then there's just the notes from Brendan that we put together to talk to Obama about. And then there's my notes and some more notes. So I should keep this. It was a fairly complicated day, so that goes in the document box. Oh, it's already. It's already happening. Oh my God. This weird thing is a strange man made out of pipe cleaners straddling a rat. A plastic rubber rat. I've had this since college. I remember making it when I was high. The pipe cleaner guy has a very defined cock and balls for some reason. And he's riding a rat. Seems like a rare piece of ephemera. I will keep that. That's episode 900 with the full garage tour and my talk with Nick Nolte. You can listen to that for free on all podcast platforms. To get every episode of WTF ad free, sign up for wtf? Just go to the link in the episode description or go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast. Here's some throwback guitar from one of my big hits from earlier on in the podcast, Guitar History Boomer Lives Monkey lafonda Cat Angels Everywhere.