Episode 1635 - Jillian Bell

Summary

Podcast Summary: WTF with Marc Maron – Episode 1635 featuring Jillian Bell

Release Date: April 17, 2025
Host: Marc Maron
Guest: Jillian Bell

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Introduction

In Episode 1635 of the WTF with Marc Maron podcast, host Marc Maron engages in a candid and heartfelt conversation with comedian and actress Jillian Bell. Known for her roles in “Sword of Trust,” “Workaholics,” “Brittany Runs a Marathon,” and her recent directorial debut, “Summer of 69,” Jillian offers listeners an intimate glimpse into her personal struggles, professional journey, and creative endeavors.

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Mental Health and Personal Crises

Marc and Jillian delve deeply into the topic of mental health, sharing personal experiences and coping mechanisms.

• Constitutional Crisis and Anxiety: Marc opens the discussion by drawing parallels between national political turmoil and his personal anxiety, highlighting the pervasive nature of crises in both personal and public spheres.

  “We are in a bona fide constitutional crisis. Cause I don't know really what the recourse is for the courts to take the President to task.”
  — Marc Maron [00:43]

• Coping with Personal Anxiety: Both Marc and Jillian discuss their strategies for managing anxiety. Marc shares his frustration with limited medical recourse, while Jillian opens up about her experiences with anxiety medications and therapy.

  “My sister drove me, so she was like, I'll get a Starbucks. And I was like, great, I'd love ice water.”
  — Jillian Bell [10:46]

• Impact on Daily Life: They explore how anxiety affects daily activities, from driving to pet care, emphasizing the constant battle between personal well-being and external pressures.

  “And this is a bad story. I wonder if Charlie's gonna be okay or if it's gonna take months.”
  — Marc Maron [15:12]

Jillian Bell's Career and Directing Debut

Jillian provides an in-depth look at her transition from acting to directing, discussing the challenges and triumphs she encountered along the way.

• Early Career and Groundlings: Jillian recounts her beginnings at the Groundlings, her stint writing for “Saturday Night Live” (SNL), and her roles in various comedies.

  “I was on SNL since high school. Yeah. Oh, since I was a kid.”
  — Jillian Bell [47:55]

• Directorial Journey: She shares the story behind “Summer of 69,” her first feature film as a director. Jillian describes the inspiration, the collaborative process with veterans like Lauren Shelton, and the unique challenges of directing comedy.

  “I wanted it to feel like a living-in story, not just poppy target-esque teen comedy.”
  — Jillian Bell [71:28]

• Working with Lynn Shelton: Jillian pays homage to Lynn Shelton, discussing their collaboration on “Sword of Trust” and how Shelton's mentorship influenced her approach to directing and storytelling.

  “She was the glue that held us together. I could make her laugh constantly.”
  — Marc Maron [41:57]

Parenting, Family, and Personal Stories

The conversation takes a personal turn as both hosts share anecdotes about family dynamics, parenting challenges, and the impact of personal loss.

• Family Influence: Jillian talks about her parents' roles in her life, her father's career in advertising, and how family experiences shaped her outlook and career choices.

  “My dad rented a billboard for my sister's birthday when she was like 6 years old. Happy Birthday, Brianna.”
  — Jillian Bell [31:42]

• Loss and Grief: They discuss the heartbreaking loss of loved ones, with Jillian sharing memories of her father’s resilience and Marc reflecting on the passing of Lynn Shelton.

  “I saw her at a breakfast, and she was very much in love. It was very sweet.”
  — Jillian Bell [43:27]

Experiences on Set and Working with Lynn Shelton

Insights into the filmmaking process emerge as Jillian recounts her time directing and the dynamics on set.

• Directing Challenges: Jillian describes the intense, fast-paced environment of shooting “Summer of 69” under Lynn Shelton’s direction, emphasizing the importance of trust and collaboration.

  “She shot that fucking movie in three weeks. It was crazy.”
  — Marc Maron [69:26]

• Creative Collaboration: The duo discusses the balance between creativity and structure in filmmaking, highlighting how improvisation and scripted moments intertwine to create authentic comedic narratives.

  “It's about female friendship disguised as a sexy raunchy teen comedy.”
  — Jillian Bell [71:43]

Reflections on Success and Creativity

Marc and Jillian explore the nature of success, creativity, and the pressures that come with achieving recognition in the entertainment industry.

• Defining Success: They debate what it means to be successful, with Jillian expressing admiration for consistent, joyful work over high-profile fame.

  “I always view success as someone who's just got constant work and seems to be enjoying it.”
  — Jillian Bell [60:31]

• Creative Process: Marc shares his reflections on how anxiety influences his creativity, likening it to “panning for gold in a river of panic.”

  “Maybe I just like to pan for gold in a river of panic.”
  — Marc Maron [37:28]

• Balancing Personal and Professional Life: Both acknowledge the difficulties of maintaining mental health while navigating the demands of their careers.

  “I'm trying to figure out my blurb right now for the trailer.”
  — Jillian Bell [83:12]

Concluding Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, Marc and Jillian offer reflections on spirituality, personal growth, and the enduring importance of genuine connections.

• Spiritual Beliefs: They touch upon their beliefs and how spirituality intersects with their lives and creative work.

  “I do believe in God. There's questions of why certain things are happening if God does exist.”
  — Jillian Bell [66:57]

• Final Reflections: Jillian shares her aspirations to continue directing and her desire to tell meaningful stories that resonate with audiences across different stages of life.

  “I just want to keep doing this as much as I can.”
  — Jillian Bell [76:47]

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

1. Mental Health Parallel:

   “We are in a bona fide constitutional crisis.”
   — Marc Maron [00:43]

2. Cat Care Struggles:

   “I don't like that part of me.”
   — Marc Maron [15:21]

3. Family Billboard:

   “Happy Birthday, Brianna.”
   — Jillian Bell [31:42]

4. Directing Under Pressure:

   “She shot that fucking movie in three weeks. It was crazy.”
   — Marc Maron [69:26]

5. Defining Success:

   “I always view success as someone who's just got constant work and seems to be enjoying it.”
   — Jillian Bell [60:31]

6. Spiritual Reflections:

   “I do believe in God. There's questions of why certain things are happening if God does exist.”
   — Jillian Bell [66:57]

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Conclusion

Episode 1635 of WTF with Marc Maron offers a profound exploration of mental health, the intricacies of the entertainment industry, and the personal journeys that shape creative expression. Through Jillian Bell’s storytelling and Marc Maron’s introspective interviewing, listeners gain invaluable insights into the resilience required to navigate both personal and professional landscapes.

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Note: This summary is based on the transcript provided and aims to encapsulate the essence of the conversation for those who have not listened to the episode.

Transcript

[Marc Maron]

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Go to quints.com WTF for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. Then that's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com WTF to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com WTF all right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fuck Nicks? What's happening? I'm Marc Maron. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. Look you guys, today on the show I'm gonna talk to Gillian Bell. She was my co star in Sword of Trust. That was Lynn Shelton's last movie. She was a writer on SNL before being in movies and shows like Workaholics, Brittany Runs a Marathon and Eastbound and Down. But she has just directed her first feature, Summer of 69, which is not about 1969. It's a reference to the sexual position. Let me just get this out of the way. Los Angeles I'm back at Largo for an 8pm show next Tuesday, April 22. Then I'm at Dynasty Typewriter on Saturday, April 26 and again on Tuesday, April 29. Toronto I'm at the Winter Garden on Saturday, May 3 for two shows. Burlington, Vermont I'm at the Vermont Comedy Club for two shows on Monday, May 5 and one show on Tuesday, May 6. Those I believe are all sold out. But there might be tickets surfacing, I don't know. Portsmouth, NH I'll be at the Music hall on Wednesday, May 7th. Then I'm in Brooklyn, New York, for my HBO special taping at the Bam Harvey Theater on May 10th. Two shows there. Go to wtfpod.com tour for all of my dates and links to tickets. Yes, do that. So look, you guys, I don't know, you know, I brought this up, must be five, six weeks ago, that eventually the President would defy the courts, and that's happening. And then we would be in a bona fide constitutional crisis. And that has arrived. Here we are. This is it. This is the precipice. I don't know what the recourse is of the Supreme Court over this deportation ruling or the lower courts with theirs, whether they're gonna find the President in contempt or not. But this is what was gonna happen, and I assumed it would happen. And now it's happened, and we are in a true constitutional crisis. Cause I don't know really what the recourse is for the courts to take the President to task. There's nobody in the orbit in terms of advisers or people with positions of power in the Justice Department or in the executive branch that will tell him he can't do this and he's going to do it. And then ultimately, if there is no recourse, the government that we have or had is no longer functioning. It's no longer America as based in constitutional democracy. So how are you? Good morning. Welcome. What are you gonna do about it? What are we gonna do about it? I mean, look, I get focused on these, you know, I'm starting to go into deeper dives. It seems that outside of the mania and sociopathic autocracy of the president, that you have these people within the administration who, you know, Trump is not smart. He's not. He's a dummy. And so, you know, he's being operated and, you know, go poke around, take a look at Russell Vaught in the Office of Management and Budget, because I think that guy is an engine. And of course, Stephen Miller, the deputy Chief of staff, is that what his position is, in charge of policy? Yeah, that guy, he's out there doing it. But, yeah, I mean, if you want to get more definition around it, I know people don't, you know, stay checked in. There's a lot of other people, you know, working on this. But what did we do? What do we do? Well, I just spent an hour and a half playing guitar deeply trying to find a riff to. To use for my special. I have been, you know, on the fence about how to handle my cat, Charlie, in terms of medicine. I'm deciding now, and I Think I talked to you about it before, that. That I think I'm going to take him off the Prozac. I actually think that Prozac is making him more aggravated. I'm just gonna have to ride it out. This is my feeling. I'm going to talk about this with the same urgency I talked about the constitutional crisis. That's. That everything in my mind happens at roughly the same frequency, and sometimes it can't get out from under it. I mean, the cats. And I've talked about this a bit, but I do think that my brain generates as much personal crisis as possible to counteract the. The macro political and environmental crisis at hand. So if I can match it, I can at least keep it in the house. You know, like, I can see what's going on in the macro and the big picture, but I can go like, I got some stuff going on here. You know, my cat is aggravated and they're uncomfortable. So I'm gonna. I'm gonna deal with this, and then I'll check in with the other stuff later today or every five minutes, however it works for you. But I do. I've had many cats before in my life. Some people are telling me to call Jackson Galaxy. I don't know that guy. But I do have a sense of what's going on. I mean, when I go and I think I went away too much this last time, the vacuum, the power vacuum creates, you know, a dominant struggle. And I've got Buster and Charlie, who are, I think, more or less the alphas. Sammy's kind of a moron and was pretty severely punked out by Buster. So they have a very cute gay relationship. Gay marriage to a degree. But I find that Sammy's like, he's gonna go to wherever the tough guy is. So that creates a little friction. But I think me being away so much has put Charlie in this position to where he's gonna fight it out with Buster to be the king of the house. And then I come home and he's fighting with me. This little fuck is taking me on, and I'm like, dude, that's not gonna. It's not gonna go well for you. And then I medicated him. You know, just like a small authoritarian leader in my house. I'm like, if these fuckers aren't gonna like me, I will repress them. I will suppress them. I will put this little fucker on medicine so he can't function the way he wants. And then. I don't like that part of me. I don't like that so, but, but also like having cats for so long, they're just gonna have to figure it out. I got one more trip to do and it might be a little dicey, but I got some gabapentin and I'm just gonna try, try to wean them off this Prozac and, and let them figure it out, because they will figure it out. I've had so many cats, I know that this has happened before. I just freaked out because there was a lot of shit involved, literal shit, and just a lot of insanity. Three male cats. Kit keeps telling me like, we'll get a female and balance it out. I'm not gonna just keep adding cats to the problem. You can't just keep adding cats to the problem. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace and we've come a long way with our website thanks to Squarespace. I used to send everything off to someone who put things on the site and they deal with any updates or bugs. But that all changed when we started using Squarespace. Now we run everything in house, updating the site whenever we want and letting Squarespace handle all the additions and upgrades. With Squarespace, you can showcase anything you want with a customizable website designed to attract clients or fans and, and grow your business. Squarespace has cutting edge design tools so anyone can build an online presence that suits them perfectly. Start with Blueprint AI, Squarespace's AI Enhanced website Builder. To get a fully custom website in just a few steps. Check out squarespace.com wtf for a free trial. And when you're all set to put your new website out in the world, use offer code WTF to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com WTF offer code WTF. So look, Gillian Bell is here and I love her. She's very funny, she's very sharp, good person. As I said, I worked with her on Lynn Shelton's last movie, Sword of Trust. We had a good time. And she's directed a movie. It's called the summer of 69. It'll be on Hulu starting Friday, May 9th. And this is me talking to Jillian Bell.

[Gillian Bell]

My sister drove me, so she was like, I'll get a Starbucks. And I was like, great, I'd love ice water.

[Marc Maron]

And that was what you got.

[Gillian Bell]

That's what I get every time at Starbucks.

[Marc Maron]

Yes, but I don't, I can't. I don't go. I don't go to the Starbucks.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

What am I doing? I'm using. This is where my Brain's at.

[Gillian Bell]

Are you blocking a car?

[Marc Maron]

I was going to turn my heater off with my car fob. This is the machine. This was the remote that I was looking for.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, for sure. So we're both in a great place.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I mean, why? I actually just started medicine and, you know, and I've never taken it before for an anxiety medicine.

[Gillian Bell]

What?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Which one? Are you surprised about that? I've never taken one.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, that you've never taken. Anti anxiety medic. I thought everyone had. I don't know.

[Marc Maron]

No, I. I was on. I. I did Prozac years ago for a short period of time.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

To process some other.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know, when I was in New York. And then I just never did it. And I tried some stuff, but they always with me. But this one's not an ssri. It's more specific. Oh, it's be Sporin. I can't shut up about it.

[Gillian Bell]

I'm. I'm on it. I'm on a lot of things right now.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, I'm on that and Lexapro and.

[Marc Maron]

How long have you been on Busporin?

[Gillian Bell]

Three weeks.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, so it's new to deal with the other stuff.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Do you feel anything? You wouldn't know.

[Gillian Bell]

I mean, I feel a little bit better. I'm like. When I have panic, I cry for a bit and then I come down from it faster than I was before. So I guess it's helping.

[Marc Maron]

Doing beta blockers, too.

[Gillian Bell]

I have beta blockers. I'm not on that right now.

[Marc Maron]

You didn't take a beta blocker to come talk to me?

[Gillian Bell]

No, I got a prescription today for Klonopin.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, that'll kick you. That's a hardcore. I can't do those because I'm recovery. I can't have Klonopins now.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

That's not good to have in the house.

[Gillian Bell]

I think that's until the Lexapro kicks in.

[Marc Maron]

Was this all relative to the other thing?

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah. Yeah. I would talk about it, too.

[Marc Maron]

You would?

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah. I had a fibroid removed from my uterus, and then the doctor before I had the fibroid removed to schedule the procedure. They're like, well, we need to make sure you don't ovulate before we have the procedure. So we'll just put you on birth control for the first time in your life.

[Marc Maron]

You've never been on it?

[Gillian Bell]

Never been on it.

[Marc Maron]

I like a person that wings it.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah. I always just cross both fingers and go, let's hope for the best.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. This is on you, dude.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah. I go. I. I go, hey, if this happens, you got to take care of it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

And then I go, go ahead. And then a singular pump.

[Marc Maron]

It's. It's an old Catholic procedure.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Marc Maron]

So you'd never been on birth control and it just. And you felt that immediately?

[Gillian Bell]

Yes. I was like, I am itching inside my skin. Like, I'm going crazy with anxiety, with depression.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, wow. And that was just to control the ovulation.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Gillian Bell]

And then I had the procedure. They're like, you're all done with that now. Let's put you on so much estrogen that you feel like you're going fuck nuts.

[Marc Maron]

And that's to counter the effects of the impact it had on your uterus.

[Gillian Bell]

Yes. To heal the lining.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Gillian Bell]

And then I basically said, you guys, I gotta get off of this. I was on it for a few weeks. I said, I gotta get off of this. They're like, well, let's maybe do the patch, the estrogen patch instead. Now to try that out. I put it on, and then I threw up eight times.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, my God.

[Gillian Bell]

So, like, my body was saying no to all of it. And now it's three and a half months later, and I'm still dealing with the fallout of it.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, my God.

[Gillian Bell]

And I've talked to so many women who are like, oh, yeah, that lasted three months for me. That lasted six months. I had to take a year off.

[Marc Maron]

Of school for just from the estrogen overload.

[Gillian Bell]

Either the estrogen or the birth control. So it's just like, there's just not enough research done about women's health studies. I just can't even believe that they just give everyone the same thing and, like, my sexual methods cross their fingers and hope for the best.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I mean, but that's half of medicine. But oddly, I'll share with you the response that I'm not proud of. But I'm like, well, what do you think this means for Charlie? Do you think it's going to take him a long time to get off the Prozac?

[Gillian Bell]

Oh, for your cat. I know, I know, I know.

[Marc Maron]

It's like, this is a bad story. I wonder if Charlie's gonna be okay or if it's gonna take months.

[Gillian Bell]

No, it won't take months for Charlie. Cause that was like, it's been four days.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I think that. And I'm not sure it's incorrect, but it's frustrating that a lot of medicine is speculative and that all they can do is they gotta try it somewhere.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And so, on some level, whether you know it or not, you're part of the research.

[Gillian Bell]

Absolutely. But then when you call them. When you call them to go, hey, I got the data back, it fucking sucks. They don't go, oh, cool, let's write that down. They go, oh, you're probably good. Did you want to have a kid now?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

What? They're like, it's time. You're running out of it. And I go, I can't deal with all of this.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I don't know. Maybe there is no other solution until they figure out, over time, different methods I know of either removing the cyst or not needing the birth control or trusting that somebody is telling them the truth about their ovulation. Why couldn't they just sort of schedule it right away? In the middle of your cycle?

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, that would have been nice.

[Marc Maron]

Between cycles.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, that would have been really nice. I don't know.

[Marc Maron]

See, that's more suspect to me because the. It's like. Well, I just force the people to take this just so they can manage the ovulation.

[Gillian Bell]

Exactly. I'll go. I'll call you the next time I have a period.

[Marc Maron]

And then we come in a week.

[Gillian Bell]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

And they go, oh, yeah, I want to go to Hawaii that week. So can I put you on these drugs booked up?

[Marc Maron]

That's right. Well, that's. That's more dubious.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Than you know. It's like, why all the medicine?

[Gillian Bell]

I know.

[Marc Maron]

So now, just to come back from that, you're on Lexapro and Buzworin and occasionally beta block.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Just because your brain's fucked up from the.

[Gillian Bell]

And Ativan.

[Marc Maron]

Ativan and Klonopin. Well, what are they trying to do to you? Drugstore?

[Gillian Bell]

I don't know, man. I don't. Well, I have the Ativan. You know, break in case of emergency.

[Marc Maron]

But did you. Cause that's heavy, too. Klonopin and Ativan. Those are yummy to addicts. Yeah, but this is the first time you've had the panic.

[Gillian Bell]

No, I. Hey, this is fun. Turns out I've had it since I was a baby.

[Marc Maron]

A baby?

[Gillian Bell]

Yes. Like, since I was very young. I used to talk to your mom about it. No, I used to get nervous about something, and I would hold my breath until I passed out. So my dad never wanted to be alone with me.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, it just gets. He made you nervous?

[Gillian Bell]

No, just because it's like there's a baby just turning blue all the time whenever it's getting anxious.

[Marc Maron]

I don't like this one.

[Gillian Bell]

I know. Yeah. Can we give this back? Are there any other ones?

[Marc Maron]

So you remembered that, or did your mom remember that?

[Gillian Bell]

My mom and dad told me about it, and they took me to a doctor that was like, oh, boy. When she grows up, some boy's gonna break her heart and she's gonna drive her truck through a tree.

[Marc Maron]

Nice thing to hear.

[Gillian Bell]

I know.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I'm trying to track. I tried to track how long I've been having my particular form of anxiety.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Which is, you know, dread driven catastrophic. Thinking intrusive thoughts.

[Gillian Bell]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

But they're all practical, intrusive thoughts. Like, you know, like, you talk to Bamford. Her intrusive thoughts are like, I want to kill that baby. You know me. It's like, you know, what if my cat hangs itself on the drape thing?

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And then I just lock into that. Yeah. But so when you have reasonable intrusive thoughts, how is that not just being, you know, like, you know, Worry. It's worry. On some level, it is worry.

[Gillian Bell]

It's fear.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

It's all fear.

[Marc Maron]

It's all fear.

[Gillian Bell]

But mine is like. Mine goes from one thing to another, so it doesn't. It collects more things.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's like a snowball. It's like, okay, you've depleted that worry.

[Gillian Bell]

Exactly.

[Marc Maron]

Let's put. Well, let's open the folder.

[Gillian Bell]

Yes. So, like, I was like, okay. When I was a kid, I. This is a particular one that's. That's followed me into adulthood. When I was a kid, when I would go to bed on Sunday nights, every Sunday night was hard for me because I was like. I was spiraling about the week before next week. And my parents, I would hear their TV go off, and then I'm like, everyone's asleep in the house besides me.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

And I'm awake and I'm terrified.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

So that became, as an adult. Oh, you book a job that first Monday, like, every Sunday. Friday, Saturday. Sunday becomes like, that Sunday night. So I'm, like, terrified. Trying to memorize, not sure.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, are you ever thinking, like, I'm gonna fuck it up.

[Gillian Bell]

I'm gonna. Oh, every time. Every time. I'm like, this is the opportunity for someone to see what a failure I am. So. So. And then. And then it just keeps.

[Marc Maron]

I'll prove them all right.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah. And then my anxiety just keeps jumping to more and more things.

[Marc Maron]

So I've stopped.

[Gillian Bell]

I stopped driving three years ago.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, my God. That's a similar type of anxiety that I have. But why did you stop Driving.

[Gillian Bell]

I had a panic attack on the freeway going to Palm Springs.

[Marc Maron]

But how did.

[Gillian Bell]

Over what I was driving. I was behind a big semi truck cruising along 75 miles per hour. 70 miles per hour. And I just went. I just. That dread that comes up and is heat just all the way up to your shoulders. I just went, I don't know how to drive.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

So I go, you're gonna be okay. You're gonna pull off the freeway. You're gonna be okay. And I got off the freeway, and then I was like, I don't know how to. I can't make it all the way to Palm Springs. So I had to stay at a double tree in. Where they give you a chocolate chip cookie.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

I, by the way, had a reservation at the Parker, which is very nice. And I thought that would be very nice.

[Marc Maron]

So you landed on I can't drive.

[Gillian Bell]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

Even though you'd gotten as far as you'd got. Logic couldn't help you.

[Gillian Bell]

No, no. So now I still. I've been trying to drive lately, but I got to like the El Pollo Loco on the corner of my neighborhood. So that's. That was a big achievement now.

[Marc Maron]

But is this, like. Is it fear you feel or. I don't. Because you. How to drive.

[Gillian Bell]

I know. I don't trust it. I don't trust the other cars I don't trust.

[Marc Maron]

That's different.

[Gillian Bell]

I must trust myself, because around a neighborhood, I'm fine. It feels like old hat to me. But a car in front or a car in back, which is driving. That is terrifying to me.

[Marc Maron]

I get it. I have to battle the fear of being T boned at an intersection.

[Gillian Bell]

Oh, yeah. Is this. We've seen it in movies so many times. Or what is it?

[Marc Maron]

I actually. I can track that one. There was an accident in my hometown that was so devastating.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

That it traumatized me for life. It was a stop sign situation. And a drunk driver was just barreling down this road. And this car had the. You know, could. Had the right of way.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And this just, you know, not only T boned him, but was going so fast. Decapitated all four of them.

[Gillian Bell]

What?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Just hit it so hard that the car just went right through the other car or over it.

[Gillian Bell]

And this was a story you grew up with or you saw this happen?

[Marc Maron]

It happened. I didn't see it happen.

[Gillian Bell]

Oh, thank God.

[Marc Maron]

No. But I was like, that's bad. I'm going to avoid that at all costs.

[Gillian Bell]

Oh, my God.

[Marc Maron]

So I think about that. But I can sort of Overcome it. And what are the other driving things? Oh, terrified of hitting somebody.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's my fear now too because I'm like sometimes around with driving.

[Marc Maron]

Right. Sometimes you're texting.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And you look up.

[Gillian Bell]

I'm not doing that. I'm barely blinking if I'm driving.

[Marc Maron]

Oh my God.

[Gillian Bell]

I know.

[Marc Maron]

So beta blocker don't help with that shit.

[Gillian Bell]

I don't. The beta blockers don't work with me. They make me feel a little bit like a mannequin, so.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, but it's only for four hours.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah. Is that it?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I think so. I think beta blockers are pretty.

[Gillian Bell]

Beta blockers are probably very good for people who do stand up. Right?

[Marc Maron]

Well, if you're afraid.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, like. I mean, it's the stage fright drug.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I was prescribed it once. Cause I was fighting so much with my girlfriend at the time that I was trying to detach with love and not be angry. So someone said, you should try beta blockers. So I'm just sitting there, she's just sitting on a couch and I'm like.

[Gillian Bell]

I just popping them. Just popping beta blockers. To not have to deal with love.

[Marc Maron]

That.

[Gillian Bell]

But she was.

[Marc Maron]

It wasn't all one sided.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So wait, do you have siblings?

[Gillian Bell]

I do, I have my older sister. She drops off partner. Yeah, she dropped me off.

[Marc Maron]

So does she remember you not being holding your breath and shit?

[Gillian Bell]

Probably. She was five years older, so she probably. Yeah, she probably remembers some of that.

[Marc Maron]

Anything to do with you, it was just you getting more attention at the time.

[Gillian Bell]

No, she was obsessed with me. She was the opposite. She was like very much like, you know, she definitely wanted at one point to be like the star because she was gonna for Mickey Mouse Club as a kid.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, really?

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah. And then my parents were like, we don't wanna live in Florida. So they didn't do it.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, they weren't willing to roll the dice on a Disney kid.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, for us, thank God.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

That's a good decision, I think, for the parents and.

[Marc Maron]

But she ended up doing what before hooking up with you?

[Gillian Bell]

She was an agent for a very long time at a boutique talent agency representing people from TV and film.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

And she actually got into that because when I was 18, she convinced my parents to let me move out to la. And she was like, I'll help her, I'll work at a talent agency. So she built her way up from like an assistant to a partner at a talent agency. And then after a while it was like Everything. I started producing some of the movies I was in and TV shows. And I just said, you know, this is what we've been doing our whole lives, is looking at scripts and dissecting them and figuring out she knows.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And agents are. Their knowledge is good for production.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, absolutely. She's very logical and good at problem.

[Marc Maron]

Solving and also pulling people in, I'd imagine.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But wait, so where did you grow up?

[Gillian Bell]

I grew up in Las Vegas, Nevada.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. There's no other one. There's actually Las Vegas, New Mexico.

[Gillian Bell]

I'm sure there's several.

[Marc Maron]

Las Vegas, New Mexico. Yeah. Yeah. And really, I've only met a couple of people that did that.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Who's that other one? Baron Vaughn.

[Gillian Bell]

That other one? You know that one?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. The one I feel like I've talked to maybe three.

[Gillian Bell]

There's the Killers.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, the band.

[Gillian Bell]

The band, the Killers.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Gillian Bell]

Jimmy Kimmel.

[Marc Maron]

Right. And then some people end up in Vegas.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And it's always the same sort of question. It's like, what? How did you grow up in Vegas?

[Gillian Bell]

I know.

[Marc Maron]

And then there is a world out there outside of whatever the fuck is happening that everyone knows about.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah. It is funny that some people still think, oh, what casino did you grow up in?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, where did you go? Which buffet did you go? Did your family go to every Sunday?

[Gillian Bell]

Look, we did. I'm not gonna lie. We did.

[Marc Maron]

You did?

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah. Because my dad had a little comp stamp and so we would go to them.

[Marc Maron]

But why do you end up in Vegas? No one's from Vegas.

[Gillian Bell]

No, he's from Montana. And he just wasn't really about the scene of that. Even though now I'm attracted to Montana. It sounds wonderful.

[Marc Maron]

I feel like you have, not, in a negative way, some Montana vibes.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Gillian Bell]

What are the positive Montana vibes? I give off.

[Marc Maron]

Just like, solid person. Oh, that's, you know. You know, kind of like, you know, you're candid, but, you know, you have boundaries. Kind of.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, sure, sure, sure. Great. Okay. Great. Yeah, he's from there. And then he moved out to Vegas and he. He sort of did.

[Marc Maron]

For his gambling addiction.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah. His gambling addiction. No, he was like a radio guy for a while. He was a dj, and then he.

[Marc Maron]

Was like, what, at the peak of FM radio? Probably like in the 70s.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah. And then he was like the Ed McMahon to someone's show that was, like, up and coming. That didn't ever hit. And then he became an ad man. He did advertising. So he had his own ad agency. Called the Bell Agency.

[Marc Maron]

So he started as a jock.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And then he became a sidekick for a local TV show.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Gillian Bell]

And like. And then. And then was like, okay, I need to make some actual money.

[Marc Maron]

And so he had video of it.

[Gillian Bell]

Oh, I don't know.

[Marc Maron]

Side kicking.

[Gillian Bell]

I don't know. I feel like we have pictures of it, but I'm not sure we have any video of it. That would be amazing. I'm sure with YouTube nowadays, I'm like.

[Marc Maron]

Let'S see, go find it.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And then he like. Well, he was. He knew about at least copy ads. You know, if he's doing radio. Yeah, he knew that. So he did. He has opened his own ad agency.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah. Opened his own ad agency. He always. It's funny cause my mom was a stay at home mom. Always wanted to be an actress. And then my dad worked in advertising and always wanted to be a film director. And he took me to the movie theaters every Sunday. Of my life. Of his life. Yeah. And he's still around? No, he passed away about 12 years ago.

[Marc Maron]

I'm sorry.

[Gillian Bell]

That's okay.

[Marc Maron]

Seems young. Was he young?

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, he was 69. Which is like name of your movie. Yeah. Which is the first film I directed, summer of 69. There's a little wink there to him, I think.

[Marc Maron]

Is there?

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah. I don't know. I believe in those things. Like, it's funny in retrospect, you're thinking. Yeah. Like the first film where I had a role with a name was in 22 Jump street and my name was Mercedes. And that's the only car my dad drove. Like, even when we lost everything, he lost his agency and we had barely any money. He had an old 80s diesel.

[Marc Maron]

Diesel Mercedes.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, that in. That had no air conditioning in the Las Vegas summer. So like. Oh, it was just like 110. I know. So I believe in those little like, winks. I don't know if you do, but.

[Marc Maron]

Wait, so links. You know, we. It seemed like there's this. An arc there that we're. We're missing, which is. Well, we. We ended before we. I watched your movie and it was cute.

[Gillian Bell]

You watched Summer of 69?

[Marc Maron]

It's a cute movie.

[Gillian Bell]

I love it. Oh, that's very sweet.

[Marc Maron]

It's odd because, like, as an old man, I didn't quite know how to watch it.

[Gillian Bell]

Because the link.

[Marc Maron]

No, no, no. Because of the subject matter. I'm like, oh, yeah. Is this a type of movie now where these kids are learning about sex this way, you know?

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

There is sort of a type of movie going on.

[Gillian Bell]

There is. But also, I mean, we subverted. It's like, you know, it becomes about a movie about female friendship and also like a, you know, I mean, I'm not sure two different women coming of age. So I kind of was like, you know what? I will do this type of movie if we can make it. What is actually interesting to me.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I mean, I couldn't identify that many movies like that, but it is sort of a teen subgenre getting someone laid. Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

And here's the way in that we know, like the girl wants to get the guy or the guy wants to get the girl. And now they need the help of someone. Like, okay, I can see that. And I'm gonna do it in the most fun, fantastical, fantasy, sequenced fun way. And then when we get to the heart of what the story's really about, it's gonna be about these two ladies.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

And like, that was exciting to me.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. We'll talk about it more in detail as soon as we figure out or explore how your dad lost everything.

[Gillian Bell]

And now a word from our sponsors. Lexapro. Are you struggling in life or are you a cat?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, exactly. Well, no, because you were talking about how he started an ad agency and then in passing, you're like, even when he lost everything.

[Gillian Bell]

He did, he lost. I mean, look, that happens sometimes. It happened to my dad.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I mean, like, so you guys are growing up and he's got his own agency and it's local.

[Gillian Bell]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

And he's like writing funny stuff. Do you remember, did he have billboards that he was proud of and that kind of stuff?

[Gillian Bell]

Oh, yeah. Actually, the funniest thing is that my, my dad rented a billboard for my sister's birthday when she was like 6 years old. And it was like, happy birthday, Brianna. And she's like. I was mortified.

[Marc Maron]

I was like, did it have her picture on?

[Gillian Bell]

Why the hell no? It just said Happy Birthday, Brianna. Like a little 80s birthday cake or something. Yeah, but she was like, everyone will see this. And it's the worst. But yeah, he. I mean, he was known at different casinos for like doing their commercials, like the. Some restaurants and. Oh yeah, yeah, there were, there were.

[Marc Maron]

A few that like, what were the production values? Was it like, did it have the guy walking in in front of a backdrop, come to the buffet?

[Gillian Bell]

That kind of maybe. Well, I feel like some of it was like, you know, the flashing ness of like a fire going up and then a steak being grilled and then like all the different desserts you could get.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

And he did, like, a local furniture, like Walker Furniture, and there was a place called Carousel Commons, which was coming up, which was, like, all these different types of restaurants, sort of like a food court in one's face.

[Marc Maron]

Sure. Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

So it's like he. You know, he did a lot of stuff that people from Vegas growing up would know. But. But. And we have all these Addy awards for him.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, that's great.

[Gillian Bell]

People come in and be like, do you finally win something? I'm like, no, that's my dad. That's just my dad.

[Marc Maron]

Did he direct?

[Gillian Bell]

You know what? I don't think he ever did. He ever did. No.

[Marc Maron]

Because it seems like if that's what he wanted to do, he had the.

[Gillian Bell]

Option dip into that a little bit, I think. No, I think he always just.

[Marc Maron]

And your mom didn't work?

[Gillian Bell]

No, she ended up working when I was, like, at the end of being in high school, basically, she started doing.

[Marc Maron]

Is that when your dad started to drift?

[Gillian Bell]

Drift?

[Marc Maron]

No, I mean, start to. Business go wrong.

[Gillian Bell]

Why? Do you really want to talk about when my dad's business went wrong?

[Marc Maron]

Because my dad lost everything.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

It's sort of. I mean, I was older.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And so, like, it was. You know, it. It's. It's an odd thing. Like, even if it's not like, you know, even if it just happens because business just got bad.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But it's a weird thing when you have the person that, you know is like, the guy that, you know, brought you up.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And all of a sudden, he's got nothing.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

For whatever reason.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And then you're. Because you have to. You kind of instinctively approach him a different way.

[Gillian Bell]

Well, and the thing is with my dad is, like, even when he lost his agency, he was still hustling, like, the whole time. He worked so hard for his family that, like, I felt like by the end, I was like, you. You. You deserve your break. Like, you know, he worked, like, literally when he found out what, he passed away of cancer. But when he found out about it, he didn't know that the doctor. Because he was having a procedure. And then they found out it was surgery, it was bigger than they expected it to be, and they had obviously, I guess, told him, but we didn't know that. And so we came in to talk to him, and then we said something, and he goes, oh, dang it. They told you?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

And I'm like, you were just gonna hold on to that? You were just gonna take that all on? Like, he was the Sweetest man.

[Marc Maron]

Just hardworking, focused, hard working, focused. Didn't want you guys to be stressed out.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

My dad was an angry mess. So you got lucky.

[Gillian Bell]

Really? I did get lucky. I did get lucky with them. They were both very loving. And so that doesn't make. I'm like, why am I on so many medications now?

[Marc Maron]

Because you were born panicky.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Most kids are born colicky. You were born panicky. Right out of the gate, you're like.

[Gillian Bell]

I go, oh, what if I have to make a left turn? They're like, you're a baby.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah. Am I gonna. How do you walk? How am I gonna.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Who's gonna feed me? What's happening?

[Gillian Bell]

Oh, gosh, the dread.

[Marc Maron]

I wonder if that's part of it. I'm still putting this together, and, you know, I've had more time than you to put.

[Gillian Bell]

How much more time?

[Marc Maron]

Well, I mean, I've had, like. I've known that my brain's a certain way for a long time.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But I always rationalized it as being reasonable, and it just made me intuitive that everybody should feel exactly like me if they were just in stage.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And I tried to sell that on stage for years. Like, everyone's bitter. I mean, how can you not be bitter? What do you. Everything worked out for you. It didn't. You know, but. But then it moved into. I think anxiety is more relatable, but.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But no, when I think about my childhood and about that feeling you had of. Of being. Yeah. Afraid or. Or not feeling safe for something, but that seems like you had more of a mental thing.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah. Mine was just a screw loose.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

Are you. Are you envious of people who are like, I'm gonna. I'm gonna watch Everybody Loves Raymond tonight.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

And then I'll go to bed, and then I'll get up and then.

[Marc Maron]

No, I'm not envious of them.

[Gillian Bell]

You're not?

[Marc Maron]

No.

[Gillian Bell]

Because. Because you appreciate the. The. The gift with the curse.

[Marc Maron]

Well, it's just like, I have to appreciate my life, and I'm not living that life. And. And I don't know that that's all anxiety where I feel like I've gotta be engaged and, you know, putting new things in my head and, you know, curious about stuff.

[Gillian Bell]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

You know, that they're like. I don't mind that part of being unsettled.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know, because I think that's part of creativity.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But it's more about having to overcome, you know, imaginary obstacles that my mind generate constantly.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I Don't think that journey is a heroic one.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

It's relatable to a degree.

[Gillian Bell]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

But just after a certain. It's a little exhausting on some level.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So I've been doing this joke about it, about how, like, I don't know if what I'm medicating is exactly the source of my creativity. Maybe I just like to pan for gold in a river of panic just.

[Gillian Bell]

To see if that's such a good way of putting it.

[Marc Maron]

Because that's how we. I mean, you're a funny person. You're a writer. That's how we problem solve. I know, is with comedy.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And even if it's improvisation, you're still on some level, you know. You know, having that moment outside of yourself.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

That, you know, is. It's rewarding, but it's also like, you know, it makes you feel better.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, honestly, it's what makes me feel like a human is being able to engage with others and problem solve and. And put together worlds. Like, writing is my favorite thing to do.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. But when did you start doing that? Cause we worked together and I didn't know your work that much. When we did Lynn's movie.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And that was all improvising. And you were hilarious.

[Gillian Bell]

Oh, thank you.

[Marc Maron]

Everyone was so fucking funny.

[Gillian Bell]

Oh, that was good.

[Marc Maron]

Did you know that, like, you know. Did you know about my crisis, like, on day two of that movie?

[Gillian Bell]

What was the crisis on day two?

[Marc Maron]

Well, we were all kind of my.

[Gillian Bell]

You know, was it a breakfast crisis or like a real crisis?

[Marc Maron]

No, it wasn't the cereal crisis.

[Gillian Bell]

There was a cereal crisis.

[Marc Maron]

I know.

[Gillian Bell]

Because you didn't like those weird eggs.

[Marc Maron]

The whole.

[Gillian Bell]

Those eggs were weird.

[Marc Maron]

The whole thing was bad. And I know it was low budget, but all I wanted was a. Particularly just not even that esoteric, you know, healthy cereal.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And I. Because, well, that's another part of the anxiety is like, there are these things that I would hold onto that I needed to do.

[Gillian Bell]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

To feel like I could. You know, I think about it all the time. Like, there was a time where if I didn't bring my own shampoo on the road with me, you know, I'd be like. I'd be like, oh, my hair's gonna. Everything's gonna be fucked up. I mean, I need. So there were these things.

[Gillian Bell]

Control, right? Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So it was more around that.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, got it.

[Marc Maron]

But no, like, after day two of doing, like, shooting, I pull in aside, I'm like, hey, if these guys are just gonna be untethered and going for the fucking laugh all the time. What am I supposed to do? They're like, you gotta reign them in. I mean they're playing characters, right? I mean, what are we doing out there?

[Gillian Bell]

Was that the day that we were screaming with Toby outside?

[Marc Maron]

I don't know.

[Gillian Bell]

That was. I feel like I know exactly after which scene that happen because we were all. Everyone was going to a 12.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

All riffage by the way. We all left there too going, I think I ruined the movie today. Like everyone thought that. But also like you have such trust in Lynn.

[Marc Maron]

Sure.

[Gillian Bell]

There's like a feeling of like, eh. If I really, if I really fucked it up, she'll say something that'll.

[Marc Maron]

Well, she'll get what she needed. But my thing was like I was the grounded guy.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So like. And everyone else has got these broader characters really.

[Gillian Bell]

That's true, that's true.

[Marc Maron]

And I was just sort of like, how am I. It was really just sort of like how am I going to get last with all these fucking improv wizards everywhere? And Toby has done some kind of weird deep swamp research.

[Gillian Bell]

Oh my God.

[Marc Maron]

On his fucking accent.

[Gillian Bell]

He was in character the whole shoot.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

And by the way, I was the only one like as I was flying out to. It was Alabama, right? Yeah, Birmingham.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

As I was flying out there, John was on the plane, Mikayla was on the plane. And I was like, hey, have you guys been working on this accent? And they go, oh, my character doesn't have an accent. And then I found out all of you fuckers didn't have accents. And I was like, I'm the only one that has to be from Alabama. And I was like, Lynn. And she's like, oh, it's great, it'll be great. And I'm like. I was so nervous.

[Marc Maron]

That sounded like her. Everything was like that. No, it'll be great.

[Gillian Bell]

I watched a Marco Polo of hers the other day actually. Yesterday. Yesterday.

[Marc Maron]

Oh really?

[Gillian Bell]

Yes, I.

[Marc Maron]

Do you still have them?

[Gillian Bell]

I do. It's like they're still there. They don't go away. So I looked at it because I was. Weirdly, I was going on a show that had a medium and I was like, I wonder who would come through. Because I was hoping my dad, you know. Of course, of course. But then you start to think of the people in your life that you've lost. And I thought of Lynn and I was just thinking about her cute laugh. So I just looked it up for a second. Oh, best laugh on the planet.

[Marc Maron]

Oh yeah. That was like. I Think that was the glue that held us together is I could make her laugh constantly. And she'd just keep laughing.

[Gillian Bell]

Oh, my gosh.

[Marc Maron]

No matter how, like, angry I'd get.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah. And then she'd be like, it'll be fine. And she'll just take, like, 80 tinctures, like, things and drop them into her tea or whatever. And I was just like, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

She had.

[Gillian Bell]

Wearing great hair.

[Marc Maron]

She had a system with all that medicine. It was so brutal that, you know, there's something about a belief in, you know, homeopathy or, you know, natural medicine or, you know, whatever.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know, But I don't know. I often wonder, but it doesn't matter that whatever she had, you know, outside of her stomach issues, you know, would have been diagnosed earlier had she been more prone to regular doctors.

[Gillian Bell]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

Because I, like, I remember, like, this is so fucking heartbreaking, but I remember, like. Cause she was like. When she got sick that week, you know, she reached out to her naturopath or wherever in Seattle. The person or wherever they were and with the symptoms and stuff.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And then, like, you know, after she passed away, you know, I get this box at the house with, like, a tincture, and I'm like, yeah, that wasn't gonna do it.

[Gillian Bell]

I know. Sweetheart. Sweetheart. I saw her in. In Boston in the beginning of 2020.

[Marc Maron]

I think that's when she got sick.

[Gillian Bell]

Really? Yes, she was getting sick.

[Marc Maron]

I think that is when it started to happen.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah. We went out to breakfast. I was shooting something, and just in a freaking terrible place. But, like, we were just talking, and I just kept saying. Cause the director I was working with was really hard. The hardest director I've ever worked with. And I just kept saying to her, I can't keep doing this. I really want to run the ship. I want to direct something. And she just kept saying, like, jillian, you do it. I will be there. Like, she just kept saying that. And like, you got this, and I will help you with anything. You know, there's like. There's certain people in this industry where you point to them and you go, not a gatekeeper. You know, like, not someone who will, like, hold all the secrets and think like, oh, no, she was. And she was the opposite of that.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, she didn't. She couldn't work within that system either.

[Gillian Bell]

No, I know. She was like, can you imagine if I had had $30 million to make a movie with what I make? Like. And that always just blew my mind and pissed me off, too, that she never made that big one, you know?

[Marc Maron]

Well, she would have.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, she would have.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, and it would have happened. It would have. It was like, you know, I think it was pretty near it was gonna happen.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Look, man, it's like I get those pictures on my phone all the time.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And I had a dream about her, like, two days ago.

[Gillian Bell]

You did?

[Marc Maron]

I do. It happens sometimes.

[Gillian Bell]

She visit you a lot in dreams?

[Marc Maron]

No, but when she does, it's always pretty specific. But she didn't look great till last time.

[Gillian Bell]

Well, she would hate that.

[Marc Maron]

I know, but she generally just says, you know, I love you.

[Gillian Bell]

Oh.

[Marc Maron]

You know?

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And.

[Gillian Bell]

Well, I mean, you know, not to get into too much, but I will say that when I saw her at that breakfast, she was like, I'm so in love.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, she was very much in love. It was very sweet. I. I was like, she's beaming. So, like, for that to be the last time I saw her, I was like, I knew you knew how she felt, and vice versa. But I was like, oh, I hope I ever get. I get to tell you that.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, that's sweet.

[Gillian Bell]

Sorry I'm doing it on the air.

[Marc Maron]

But I'm just fighting getting the choked up thing. I know, but Steve Finarch just made a documentary about me, and a lot of it has to do with her.

[Gillian Bell]

I can't wait to see it.

[Marc Maron]

It's pretty good.

[Gillian Bell]

When's it coming out? Or you can't say, well, no, I.

[Marc Maron]

Don'T know where it's gonna end up. I don't think we've got a deal for anything yet. And it's gonna be a Tribeca. Do you live here? I live here, but, you know, they screened it at south by Southwest in the same theater that I believe we screened Sword of Trust.

[Gillian Bell]

Wow. That was the first time I was ever there.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

Oh, that's so special. That's very special.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Well, I mean, when did you start getting interested in performing?

[Gillian Bell]

Oh, when I was very young. I just, like. My mom bought me this little costume box that was full of a maid, and it was all like, murder mystery type thing because I think. Cause I was in love with Clue, which Lynn Shelton hated. Oh, really? Yeah. On the record, I will say that Lynn Shelton was so mad that my favorite movie was Clue. She's like, get out of my movie. She almost kicked me off the set. But I do. I love that movie. But, yeah, I was just always.

[Marc Maron]

Well, it's costumey and it's very. Did you know the board game?

[Gillian Bell]

I think I did a little bit, but I was more, like obsessed with murder mysteries and comedy. And honestly, we're all character actors playing the leads, like, finally getting to play the leads. And I loved it. And I like any movie with a very specific tone, like Moonstruck, where everybody's going for the same thing.

[Marc Maron]

I just watched that.

[Gillian Bell]

Isn't it perfect?

[Marc Maron]

It's great.

[Gillian Bell]

It's so good. And if one person didn't go with what the tone or didn't get it, it just wouldn't work. So I fell in love with movies at a very early age.

[Marc Maron]

And your dad was taking you?

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, yeah, he was always taking me. And then I would go in high school, and I would go to the Flamingo, and I would see Second City performing there, and it was like Jason Sudeikis and a bunch of other people. And I actually had Jason Sudeikis.

[Marc Maron]

They did casino shows.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah, the touring group.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, the touring group. They were, like, living there, so. And just doing the same show. And I just went to the same. It was like, watching the same episode of SNL every week, and I just was, like, studying. Why? That didn't get a laugh there or something.

[Marc Maron]

Wasn't there improv element?

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, they had a little bit of improv in it. And then I, at my high school, had them come and teach us. So Jason Sudeikis, like, came and taught improv.

[Marc Maron]

You just approached him after a show?

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah. I was like, can you come? I was like, I'm the, you know, the head of the Thespian society at Bishop Gorman High School. Will you come and teach improv on a Saturday? And he's like, sure. And then I wrote for SNL years later when I was 24, and he was like, wait, I know you. Do we know each other. We know each other. You're that kid from high school. And I was like, yes. So it was pretty wild.

[Marc Maron]

That's crazy.

[Gillian Bell]

I know. So that's a really fun one.

[Marc Maron]

And did you have fun at the class?

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, it was really fun. And we created an improv troupe and everything for the first time because I just loved improv. We did it every Friday in high school, and. And every day I would come in Monday through Thursday. I would come in and go, is it Friday? I think it's Friday. Yeah. She was like, no, Jillian, we're not doing improv.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Does it still exist, the improv group? I don't know.

[Gillian Bell]

I have no idea. I haven't been back in so long. I should, like, go and find out.

[Marc Maron]

Did it become a legit club? Did you make it a club that Was in the yearbook.

[Gillian Bell]

Yes. Yeah, we made it a legit thing. So I was like, okay. All right, well, hopefully that'll stay on. Then I, like, I moved to LA when I was 18, so.

[Marc Maron]

Okay, so you're really.

[Gillian Bell]

Right out of high school, I went for one semester of college at unlv, and I told my parents, like, oh, I'm gonna do what's equivalent to a semester in la, and then I'll come back. And then I was like, I'm not. I auditioned for a Kelly Osbourne music video, and I didn't get it. And I'm like, I'm never coming back, motherfuckers.

[Marc Maron]

To la?

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

To Las Vegas.

[Gillian Bell]

I was like, this is the dream.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah. To be rejected.

[Gillian Bell]

And then I worked. I worked at a talent agency for, like, five years.

[Marc Maron]

Really? But not. Your sister wasn't out here yet.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, she was. She was out here already. And she's the one who convinced my parents to let me come out.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Gillian Bell]

And then she was working at an agency as an assistant still. And then I worked at the same agency as the receptionist.

[Marc Maron]

Okay, so they had the sisters.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, they had the sisters.

[Marc Maron]

The Bell sisters.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah. And then eventually they moved me around. She became an agent, and I started moving around to, like, the assistant in the television department, the kids department, the dance department, commercial, sports, everything.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, wow.

[Gillian Bell]

So I was.

[Marc Maron]

So you got to see that side of the business.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Not exciting or. It was.

[Gillian Bell]

Look, I'm grateful for it because it taught me everything. It taught me that your agents, like you, you should be doing 90% of the work. And that's why your agents make 10%. Like, you should be out there doing as much as you can.

[Marc Maron]

A lot of people don't understand that.

[Gillian Bell]

No.

[Marc Maron]

They're like, why isn't my manager working for me? I'm like, what are you bringing?

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, exactly.

[Marc Maron]

What are your ideas? What do you need them to facilitate?

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Like, and then if you don't get someone who's interested in that, then you gotta get a new rep.

[Gillian Bell]

Right. But you should be able to call them and go, hey, by the way. I just. Just, you know, did a play and this person came and saw it and said this. Or I did the Groundling. So, you know, I was waiting through. And I got two of my first jobs through that.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, through performing.

[Marc Maron]

But you were.

[Gillian Bell]

That was my schooling when I came out here.

[Marc Maron]

So how'd you get in there? Like. But you were still working at the agency?

[Gillian Bell]

I was working at the agency, but I was. You know, there's Sometimes two year gaps in between classes at the Groundlings. So any chance, once I got to do any performing, I would go and do sketch groups. But Groundlings was it for me because I saw. I saw a black and white ad for Will Ferrell and Sherry O'Terry and I was like, that's where I want to be. And SNL was the dream. That was the only dream I had. Like, movies and stuff I didn't even really think about. I was like, SNL since high school. Yeah. Oh, since I was a kid. We couldn't go to New York because. On a vacation. Because I told them the first time I go to New York, I'm gonna be auditioning for snl.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, that was a family rule.

[Gillian Bell]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Gillian Bell]

And then that's how it happened.

[Marc Maron]

Okay, but so who was your crew at Groundlings?

[Gillian Bell]

I was in with, like, Taran Killam and Dana Powell, Sarah Baker. Lots of great, great humans. I'm like, when I got in, it's like Ryan Gaul and Jim Rash and there's a bunch of people that were like, right ahead of me. But my group was mostly like Sarah Baker and Taylor.

[Marc Maron]

Was that a huge deal? I mean, to be in the fucking Groundlings?

[Gillian Bell]

Huge deal. Just even being in the Sunday Company, like, that was the most exciting part because now you're. They're switching up that show every Sunday. It's like being in snl, but it's just not taped.

[Marc Maron]

Right, right.

[Gillian Bell]

So that was like, to me.

[Marc Maron]

And you did it for two years.

[Gillian Bell]

I did it for. I did it for about a year because they make cuts every six months. And my second round of six months, I got plucked by SNL to go write.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, really?

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So you'd only been there for six years?

[Gillian Bell]

I had basically, I had done all of Groundlings, so there's four courses, but that takes like five, six years to get through.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

And then once you get into Sunday Company, the goal is to stay in for a year and a half.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

They make cuts every six months.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

And if you make it to a year and a half, they could still go, okay, thank you for your time. Or they can vote and say, we want you to be a Groundling now.

[Marc Maron]

So how did. Did you go audition for SNL after six months?

[Gillian Bell]

After. No, the second six months I was in. So I had been in for like, let's say nine months in the Sonny Company. They came and scouted a Groundling show and asked me to audition as a performer.

[Marc Maron]

In New York?

[Gillian Bell]

Yes, I flew to New York. And you did that finally saw it, got on the stage, performed or did the audition. Got a call that I didn't get it. And then two weeks later I got a call. My manager got a call from Seth Meyers, who was the head writer, saying, would Gillian maybe wanna write? Can she come in and meet with me? So I came in and met with him. I thought. I didn't get it. Cause he didn't ask me anything.

[Marc Maron]

Why would he flown you out to tell you?

[Gillian Bell]

He flew me out and he was like, are you close with your. And I was like, yes, like. So they were basically asking red flag questions just to see if I was like a cool human to hang out with. But I had all these stacks of sketches waiting to show them, and they didn't ask for any of them. So I figured I bombed it.

[Marc Maron]

You're holding the stack?

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, I'm just holding a stack of sketches with like in a binder. And then I was like, okay, bye. And then I left. And then I was walking around Midtown.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

And I went to the Wax Museum.

[Marc Maron]

Does anyone go there? I didn't know anyone.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, no, I did. I bought the ticket finally.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah, Good.

[Gillian Bell]

And then I finally, the end of the day, I was just sad. So I went to buy cake at Magnolia Bakery downtown. Yeah, yeah. Right next to. Right next to 30 Rock, actually.

[Marc Maron]

Oh. So there was. I think the original one was down in the Village. The West Village. That was the one with the cupcakes, right? The butter. Yeah. So they got. So you got.

[Gillian Bell]

So I got slice of cake and I'm about to pay for it. My phone rings and it's Seth Meyers. And he goes, hey, what are you doing? And I go, I'm buying cake. And he goes, what? And I go, just what are you doing? What's up with you? And he goes, oh, you got the job. You start tomorrow. And I was like, what? And so I'm holding cake, just pacing in front of Magnolia Bakery, calling all my family, I'm moving to New York.

[Marc Maron]

So the cake became celebratory. Not celebrating. It started as a sad cake.

[Gillian Bell]

It started off as the saddest cake. I mean, a wax museum. And then a slice of cake and.

[Marc Maron]

You head back home and then you just jump in.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Who was the cast?

[Gillian Bell]

Kristen Wiig, Kenan Thompson, Bill Hader, Andy Samberg.

[Marc Maron]

That's good.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, it was a good. It was a good crew. That was the year that Jenny Slate was there. She came in my year. And then writers wise, Michael Bryan and Hannibal Buress. Christine Nangle. There's a Lot of great people.

[Marc Maron]

So how was that for you as a work experience?

[Gillian Bell]

All the things, you know, it's like, amazing and wonderful and horrific.

[Marc Maron]

But Seth must have been good to work on.

[Gillian Bell]

He's great. He's like, what you see is what you get. He is just a solid human being and so supportive and wonderful and. Yeah, and I got, like, a sketch in my first episode, and then, like, never again.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Gillian Bell]

Yes, because I didn't want to give up my sketches that I did at the Groundlings because I was like, well, I want to perform them at some point.

[Marc Maron]

So you held onto the stack of sketches that you brought to get the job.

[Gillian Bell]

Exactly.

[Marc Maron]

And once you realize you had the job, like, I'm not going to let them do this.

[Gillian Bell]

I had a lot that got to dress but not air. And I wrote with Kristen Wiig a lot. We had a lot of fun.

[Marc Maron]

How's she doing?

[Gillian Bell]

She's great. I mean, I haven't seen her in, like, a year, but whenever we run into each other, it's like seeing an old cousin that you really enjoy. I don't know, something about her feels like family.

[Marc Maron]

So did you leave or did they tell you to go?

[Gillian Bell]

No, they said, get the hell out of here. I think what I've been told is that. And I don't know if this is true, but some writers told me that they went to bat with Lauren to be like, hyra is a performer. And he was like, no. So. And then the next Heartbreaking or no, it was. Oh, yeah, it was so heartbreaking. But that summer off, I shot Workaholics, and then that became the job I did.

[Marc Maron]

You auditioned for that?

[Gillian Bell]

No, I've known those guys for a while. We were doing sketch comedy, like, in between Groundling stuff. Yeah, Divine and Anders and Blake and Kyle, and they were like, we're gonna shoot something. Do you wanna play a weird woman? And I was like, always, baby. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Someone who lives with a lot of animals. And. Yeah. And then that took off. So it was like, the right timing for everything. But at the time, I thought, this is the worst tragedy of my life.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, but right away.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, but right away, we got something locked in.

[Marc Maron]

That was like. That went on for years, right?

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, it did.

[Marc Maron]

And that puts you on the map.

[Gillian Bell]

It did. And honestly, because they. I don't know if it was out of laziness or cleverness, they kept our names the same. So at least for Adam, Blake, Anders and me, everyone else had names, fake names, but my name was Jillian Belk on the show, so like, if anyone was like, Jillian. I was like, yeah. And I hugged them because I was so nervous that I just didn't remember their face. And they're like, oh, we don't know each other.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's fun.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And it was fun to work with guys you knew.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Because you all know kind of what your strengths are.

[Gillian Bell]

Oh, totally. And we know how to make each other laugh, too, because we've been friends forever.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Adam's a fun little guy.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah. Well, I don't know if he'd appreciate fun little guy, but.

[Marc Maron]

No, he would. He would take it. I just saw him at a Comedy Store thing, and I hadn't seen him in a while, but he's just. I don't know. He's some guy. He's a guy. Like, there are some people that are just really ready for massive success, and he's just one of those guys.

[Gillian Bell]

He's always been ready for it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. For me, I'm sort of like, I don't know if I can handle it or if I want it. I think I'll just stay where I am. And everything inside of me will create obstacles for me not to get to that other place. As long as I can make a living at this place, I'll be okay. Because then I can still make fun of those other guys.

[Gillian Bell]

I feel like I'm having a conversation with my brain. This is nice. I know. But then there's those people. I call it. You know what? Lately, I've been like, ike Barinholtz isn't doing this shit to himself. That's what I keep thinking.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Cause he's. I think he might be.

[Gillian Bell]

You think Ike? I like Ike. He's a friend of mine. But we don't hang out all the time, so I don't know. But, I mean, I assume he has.

[Marc Maron]

No problems, that guy.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I don't know. I mean, I wouldn't have picked someone.

[Gillian Bell]

Do you pick someone that you're like, oh, that person's like.

[Marc Maron]

Like, he doesn't have these problems.

[Gillian Bell]

Like, the Rock is doing well.

[Marc Maron]

Well, yeah, the Rock has no problems.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, he has no problems.

[Marc Maron]

Like, you know, he eats a ton of fish a day. Half of his life is maintaining that. That monster body. And everybody loves him.

[Gillian Bell]

Oh, everybody loves him.

[Marc Maron]

Everyone loves a rock. But.

[Gillian Bell]

And you know what? Whenever he has to come out and say something, we're like, that's why we love you.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

He said the right thing.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And he just exudes a sort of, like, righteous niceness.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. But, Ike, I mean, like, it's not like I would never think that, like, that was an easy road.

[Gillian Bell]

I always view success as, like, someone who's just, like, got constant work and seems to be enjoying it. Oh, that's how I view success.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, well, that's. Yeah, I guess.

[Gillian Bell]

I mean, there's also the success of, like, oh, that's one of the biggest movie stars of the world. Right. There's the rocks.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, well, yeah, the people that are just aliens, they're genetically gifted, and everybody just is so excited to see them no matter what.

[Gillian Bell]

I know.

[Marc Maron]

I just did a show with Owen Wilson. He's one of those guys. I mean, people just love that guy.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But I don't necessarily get the feeling it's easy for Owen. I think that there is something about. I think, if anything, they may be, you know, relaxed in their bodies.

[Gillian Bell]

Yes. Maybe that's it.

[Marc Maron]

And I, you know, I find I can envy that.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

That there's a certain amount and they know how to have. They know how to have fun.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I don't know anything about that. Anybody who's like, yeah, we're going out for the weekend, me and a couple guys I grew up with, and we're gonna spend the weekend on the mountain and just bring our own food. I'm like, I don't even know what you're saying. We do it every couple months.

[Gillian Bell]

When's the last time you went to the mountains with buds and just farted and had beers?

[Marc Maron]

Well, I never did that. I do drag my friend who owns a record store up this hike nearby, and every time he's almost passing out. I mean, for the last two years, he's like, I don't know what's wrong with me today.

[Gillian Bell]

See, I don't picture you as a person that would go to a big bear cabin to get care, but those.

[Marc Maron]

Are the people that like.

[Gillian Bell]

But I can picture you going to Joshua Tree.

[Marc Maron]

Sure. You know, I've done that, and I don't always know what to do when I get there a night. And one night's enough.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So.

[Gillian Bell]

I just picture I've stayed in Joshua Tree one time, and it was in an Airbnb, and it was with Charlotte Newhouse. And we got there, and there was just a TV with a VCR and all these VHS. And we just watched, like, Mr. Mom. And I just. That's all I picture you doing now, and Joshua Tree, and it's, well, I'll.

[Marc Maron]

Go walk and I'll take it in, and I'LL try to force some sort of spiritual experience.

[Gillian Bell]

Sure.

[Marc Maron]

You know, I'll push it.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I'll get to the top of the mountain, be like, yeah, this is kind of amazing.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

All right. That's good.

[Gillian Bell]

Where are you at spiritually?

[Marc Maron]

What do you believe in general?

[Gillian Bell]

Yes. Like.

[Marc Maron]

Like basics, I believe. I guess. Like, I've never been a real spiritual searcher guy.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And, you know, but I do believe that there is some order to most of it, and there's. We're in control of almost nothing.

[Gillian Bell]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

And I try to have some acceptance around that. That's the best I can do.

[Gillian Bell]

That sounds so healthy.

[Marc Maron]

It's kind of healthy. I think I got some of it from recovery, you know, but I have been doing, you know, jokes about this, you know, because I'm doing these zins and, you know, what are zins? They're just nicotine. But I, you know, I always have something.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And, you know, I'm a recovering addict guy. But I. I recently framed it as, like, you know, you gotta have something to hold back the big empty. And then. And then I realized one night after I'd said it on stage, I'm like, well, if I were Buddhist, I would just accept the big empty. So maybe I'm at the precipice.

[Gillian Bell]

Oh, I like that.

[Marc Maron]

Of accepting the big empty.

[Gillian Bell]

I like Buddhism for you.

[Marc Maron]

I do, too.

[Gillian Bell]

I. I really like that. What if you got. What if your thing became. Instead of the Zen stuff, you just got really into POGs. 1990s POGs.

[Marc Maron]

What are those?

[Gillian Bell]

They were like, these little pieces of flat cardboard. It almost looks like Eucharist that you would smack around and trade with your friends when you were in fifth grade. For me?

[Marc Maron]

Well, yeah. I mean, I'm not adverse to those fleeting obsessions, but eventually I just have pogs up.

[Gillian Bell]

What was the weirdest somewhere?

[Marc Maron]

And people go like, one of those. I'm like, yeah, it was the thing I was.

[Gillian Bell]

This is the thing I was playing around with for a while. What's the weirdest one you got into for a while?

[Marc Maron]

I remember a buddy of mine, like, he remembers, like, you know, I'd buy raw wood, like, you know, boxes. Like, there's a point where I was like, you know, I'm going to figure out how to finish wood.

[Gillian Bell]

Amazing.

[Marc Maron]

And sand it and, you know, and oil it, and it never came quite out. Came out quite right.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. But that didn't last long. You know, records happen. You know, sometimes cooking things. Like right now, I'm in a. I'm in A pretty big nut oil.

[Gillian Bell]

Phase state of mind.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Because I've been vegan for a couple of years and, like, I've just decided that walnut oil and pecan oil are the key because you have to get your Omega somewhere if you're not eating meat.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And then I realized, like, well, walnuts are supposed to be so good for everything. Why not just use walnut oil? So now I find a place that makes cold pressed walnut oil, and then I found another place that does cold pressed pecans because some guy said pecan oil is better. So then I'll put those in my smoothies or my oatmeal and I. It'll pass. It'll pass. But, you know, those are the kind of things which is almost spiritual.

[Gillian Bell]

I love it because it's almost like your way of. Like, I'm just. You're just playing around with a lot of different things.

[Marc Maron]

Well, it's also that. That thing about control.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Whether it's the good cereal.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know, but I've had. If I get interested in a musical act that I didn't know about, I'll get all their records and I won't listen to them. That kind of thing.

[Gillian Bell]

This is what I do. This. But with writing. It's always writing. And it's spiritually.

[Marc Maron]

That's where you're at. Spiritually.

[Gillian Bell]

No, I mean the obsession.

[Marc Maron]

Well, where are you at spiritually?

[Gillian Bell]

Spiritually. Well, I was raised Catholic.

[Marc Maron]

For real?

[Gillian Bell]

Yes, I was. And now I believe in. What do I believe?

[Marc Maron]

Aliens?

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, sure. Well, they proved that they're here, right? Wasn't that leaked? I don't know, this last year. Look, there were so many news stories, but I think that was one of the main stories.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I think one of them's president.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah. Yeah. But I guess I believe in God.

[Marc Maron]

I do the alien thing. For me, it's like, all right, you know what? Either way.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah. I don't give a fuck. Yeah. They're here or they're not here. I wonder what they think of Independence Day. If they liked the film.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

Or the DB Sweeney. Fire in the sky.

[Marc Maron]

Well, the thing that I tried to do a joke about it, but I let it go that you know, anytime you hear about these stories, it's like they found a dead one or they see them leaving, so whatever.

[Gillian Bell]

There's never just one hanging out. No.

[Marc Maron]

They clearly do not want anything to do with us.

[Gillian Bell]

No.

[Marc Maron]

You know. But you believe in God.

[Gillian Bell]

I do believe in God. There's questions of why certain things are happening if God does exist. But like, why so many people suffer. But.

[Marc Maron]

Sure.

[Gillian Bell]

But yeah, I do. I'm a little bit of a spiritual person.

[Marc Maron]

But you don't rely on God.

[Gillian Bell]

No, I don't. And I feel like I wish I did more because I was probably. Probably felt safer when I did.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I think it probably happened, like, very early on. That was when you were holding your breath. You're like, why isn't God stopping me?

[Gillian Bell]

That's the story of, like, why doesn't God come to save me? Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

But then it was like, I did. I provided your mother and your father and everyone.

[Marc Maron]

I love that joke. I know the old Jewish joke. I sent. What is it? I sent a boat.

[Gillian Bell]

Yes. Yeah. I sent so many things for you.

[Marc Maron]

It's a clever joke. So how does. So the Workaholics kind of broke you, and you did a lot of movies.

[Gillian Bell]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

And you show up in a lot of things, and people are always happy to see you.

[Gillian Bell]

I hope that's how people talk about me when I'm dead.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

You were in a lot of things, and people were happy when you came around.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, that's that lady.

[Gillian Bell]

What was she in? I don't know. But people were happy to see her.

[Marc Maron]

She's always good.

[Gillian Bell]

Look, she was there.

[Marc Maron]

She's from Workaholics.

[Gillian Bell]

She has a very light Montana feeling about her.

[Marc Maron]

But how long had you been festering about directing?

[Gillian Bell]

I feel like, if I'm being honest, I probably wanted to do it for a very long time, but I didn't feel like. I don't know. I didn't know when the time was right. Because I do feel like there's a big thing for a lot of female directors. I mean, there's directors, period. But a lot of female directors where, like, if their first movie is not a success, they get put in a thing called director jail. I had heard that before as an actor and as a producer, being like, what about this director? And they go, ah, she's in director's jail. And I'm like, this thing is fucking bullshit. But I. It's like. I was like. I was like, I'm so nervous about failing on that one and then never getting to do it again.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, but that was the weird thing that you learned from Lyn. It's like, if you align yourself with people that believe in you. Yeah, just fuck everybody.

[Gillian Bell]

I know, I know.

[Marc Maron]

Just go get the money and shoot it out. She shot that fucking movie in three weeks.

[Gillian Bell]

It was crazy. What was it, like, 11 days of shooting or something?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, it was crazy.

[Gillian Bell]

Insane. So you know, and then, like I said when I met with Lynn, I was like, I'm working with a director that absolutely, I think, does not want me to be in this movie. And I'm seeing, like, you know, I've learned from great directors like Phil Lord and Chris Miller and Lynn Shelton, and, you know, I've learned from the people who are egoless with it, like, have their vision, but then kind of go, this is why I've hired these people, and everyone's gonna come together and collectively make a great film.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

And then I've learned from the people who, like, see any mention of an idea as, like, you don't trust me as the director. And I just think that that's not the way to go about it. And I love storytelling. I love going into worlds and, like, just losing yourself in it. And when this came around, I was like, you know, there's something in this script that I feel like I can really play around with. And so I worked on it for about a year and a half, almost two years.

[Marc Maron]

Do you know that the trick to placating actors is when they have an idea, you have them do the straight take, and then you're like, all right, go ahead and do the one you want to do, knowing in your mind.

[Gillian Bell]

And then you loudly go, use the first take. Yeah, Mark the first take. No, but you do you learn that actors have different processes.

[Marc Maron]

So you worked on this thing, though. You had the idea.

[Gillian Bell]

I didn't have the idea. The script came to me, and then I. I did a lot of passes on it.

[Marc Maron]

And who were the writers? I mean, how'd you find them?

[Gillian Bell]

I actually came on. So there was. Our producer, Lucas Carter, came up with the idea, and he pitched it to these two writers.

[Marc Maron]

So the pitch is this girl who's not.

[Gillian Bell]

Basically an inexperienced, sexually inexperienced teenager.

[Marc Maron]

Well, yeah, but kind of a nerd girl.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And she's playing against the popular.

[Gillian Bell]

Well, she's hired a local stripper to help her land the guy of her dreams. The last week of school, when she overhears that his favorite sexual position is a certain one, she tries to go from 0 to 69 in a week.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

So it's like.

[Marc Maron]

That's the pitch.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah. And for me, I was like, oh, that feels like an 80s movie. This feels like a Weird Science John Hughes. Something where I'm like, oh, big idea.

[Marc Maron]

Deviant John Hughes.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Big idea. But then let's ground it as much as possible and really make it a story about female friendship disguised as a sexy raunchy teen comedy.

[Marc Maron]

Right. But also, like, the trick is, like, getting Chloe Feynman.

[Gillian Bell]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

Is like, you know, you have to make. We're coming off the Year of Anora, so you've got to figure out how to make sex workers teen friendly on some level.

[Gillian Bell]

Right. Well, also, I think our way in was really fun because I feel like a lot of times when you see a movie where there's a strip club, it's very dark and seedy, and the strippers aren't having a good time, and you don't see the family dynamics between them. And the place that we shot at is actually called Diamond Dolls, and it's in Syracuse, New York. And those ladies are freaking family.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I think it was very funny to cast Paula.

[Gillian Bell]

Oh, my gosh. Paula Pell?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

I mean, she's just the best.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

And the first phone call I had with her, she goes, you want me to show my tits? And I go, yeah. She goes, they're great. They look great. I was like, thank God you're asking, because I wanted to. But also, I want you to feel comfortable. But she was. Every line out of that woman's mouth is just the best.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I mean. And then, like, the only real sleaze guy that, you know, represents the most sleazy is. What's his name?

[Gillian Bell]

Charlie Day.

[Marc Maron]

Charlie Day, yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I didn't know it was him in the first scene.

[Gillian Bell]

You didn't?

[Marc Maron]

Until he took his glasses off later.

[Gillian Bell]

Oh, my gosh. That's amazing.

[Marc Maron]

Why?

[Gillian Bell]

Just. You didn't know that that was Charlie?

[Marc Maron]

No. I mean, but he was kind of.

[Gillian Bell]

Putting on a little bit of a.

[Marc Maron]

Voice, you know, and he had the dark glasses on. I didn't identify him until he comes back at the end.

[Gillian Bell]

So I've only directed one other thing, which is a music video. And Charlie Day and Mary Elizabeth Ellis, his wife, came, and they were in it. They starred in it. So I directed one thing for One day, but they were in it, and they were so great. And he said to me at the end of the day, which is so thoughtful, he was like, when you direct again, call me. Cause I'll come do something in it. And I was like, oh. Oh, thank God you're saying that. And then I was like, I can't do that for him for this. And then eventually I was like, okay, Charlie, what'd you do? And he was like, anytime. When are we doing it?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And it turns out, like, you know, the balance of keeping it cute is tricky. And the other strippers are funny, but like, there is that moment. Like, all this stuff is kind of like, you were able to kind of mute the seediness. So everyone kind of is right. But, like, it's interesting how much the moment pops when she goes into that house with those tweakers.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And there is a moment there where it's sort of like, this is kind.

[Gillian Bell]

Of right, because you get to see the darker side of her job. And I think that's the first time, like, Sam's character, Abby, is sort of like, oh, I'm not thinking about my journey and my, you know, obsession with Max right now.

[Marc Maron]

Teen selfishness. Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah. Teen selfishness. I'm actually worried about. About my new friend.

[Marc Maron]

And then the way she resolves it is hilarious. Because it would only work if they were really high.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah, exactly. Which is really fun. So it was fun getting. I actually love that for those guys because they get to play such creepers, and then they get a really fun laugh.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know how that was gonna go.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah. Oh, good. I'm good.

[Marc Maron]

But, yeah, I thought it was a sweet movie. Are you, like, after you finish it, do you have any notes for yourself now?

[Gillian Bell]

I mean, so many. I feel like I learn every day on that set. I'm mostly like, you know, I do think it's nice whenever you work with a director who's also been an actor because they understand the vulnerabilities and how, you know, you can have a crazy, crazy shit going on in your home life and then have to come and, you know, pretend to land the job or whatever it is that day. And so I think there is this sensibility that we're, you know, we. We. We know that experience, but I also know how I work, and that's it. So, like, I know how I like to approach a scene. I know how, you know, how much I like getting notes or how little depending on what I'm doing and. And. And everyone else is different. So a lot of times it was like, oh, okay, it was good to see, you know, or you overly shot something and you're like, we didn't need that much of that. Okay, that's good to know. So it's like, you're learning so, so much. And I think the thing that I realized when it was done was that I was like, I just want to keep doing this as much as I can.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah, it's great.

[Gillian Bell]

I loved directing, and it just was.

[Marc Maron]

Interesting to me that I had the response I had initially.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Well, only because, like, I had to Put it into some sort of framework in my head that, like, kids now who are teenagers know a lot more.

[Gillian Bell]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

Than we did. And than I did. I mean, I'm 61. And that, you know, there is a vocabulary around this stuff that is beyond their years.

[Gillian Bell]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

And that, you know, once it starts to land more in kind of like, oh, there's still kids kind of stuff.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know, I was relieved.

[Gillian Bell]

Yes. I know. I know there is some innocence in it, which is, like, inspired by, you know, a lot of it is inspired by my own journey with sex and all of that. But I went to Catholic school. Abby goes to Catholic school. I was very much like Abby. I was very much out of the loop on things, and my sister had to explain what stuff was to me, and I wasn't ready for certain things. And I think, too, like, the thing that I love about the movie is, like, it's also being like, if you're not ready, you're not ready. And there's all this expectation. I know I said it was a coming of age story for two different ages, which I think is kind of fun because usually it's like two buddies the same age or one person. Or if you have something like hacks, where it's like, they're pretty different ages going through something. But what I love about it is there are all these marks, especially for ladies, but of. Okay. By this age, by 18, you should have had sex. By 28, you should be owning a business or married if you're, you know, if that's what you want. I'm 40, and now I'm hitting the age where it's like, you have kids or you don't. Like, this is it. So it's like.

[Marc Maron]

And your doc said you do it now.

[Gillian Bell]

I know. And I'm like, so it's like we're always kind of in a coming of age just no matter where we are. So I thought, like, I would still watch this film at 40 and be like, oh, I can relate to that feeling.

[Marc Maron]

Well, yeah, I thought it was good to. To make a decision, you know, like. Cause, you know, you get. There's movies that are, you know, intentionally meant to be gritty and to have an effect. And then there are movies that are. The conceit is that we're doing a comedy here.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And that, you know, these characters have to be balanced.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah. And we wanted it to feel like a little bit of, like, the more real it can feel and the more grounded and not so poppy. Like, there's a lot of teen Comedies that are like. They look like Target ads. Like, you just rip the tags off the character's backpack. And I didn't want that. I wanted it to feel like, lived in. Abby's coming from sort of like a 1950s innocence at the beginning. And then Santa Monica's is like very modern, you know, rock songs and all of that. And then they sort of meet in the middle in the 70s and 80s. And that's kind of where we find their friendship and the tone and the music style and all of that. Their clothes. So there's just something really fun about that. And we've been getting a lot of reviews being like. It feels like there's a lot of nostalgic. And John Hughes feels. And I'm like, that's everything I want to do. Well.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Well, that's great. And it's like Kyle mooney did that Y2K thing, which is a take on that teenage.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And I thought it was good.

[Gillian Bell]

I still have not seen it. Is it out yet?

[Marc Maron]

It's around. I saw it.

[Gillian Bell]

Okay, I'm gonna see it because I really want to see that.

[Marc Maron]

Because I watched it because he's such an odd guy and I'm like, what did he make? And it's really. It's a take on one of those kind of like sci fi teen movies.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah. It's like if white 2k actually happened, right?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah. If it really happened and all the machines kind of ganged up.

[Gillian Bell]

That's.

[Marc Maron]

But then there's a big moment that's made of toasters and refrigerators and stuff.

[Gillian Bell]

That's a blast.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. But it's interesting that your generation. Cause I don't know what. I can't remember what the hell the movies were when I was a teenager. I guess I really didn't see those kind of movies when I was in high school. But you end up seeing them somehow.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

There's always teen movies, though. I feel like, like, even if it's. I'm trying to think of, like, Ordinary.

[Marc Maron]

People was a teen movie.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah. By the way, I tried watching that the other night. Cause it's one of my favorite. It's my second favorite movie. So it's Clue and then Ordinary People don't watch that. If you're going through a hard time mentally, it's. You're just watching a man suffering.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. But I remember seeing that as a teenager and it was about a teenager. And like, I don't remember the funnier movies of the time.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Like when I was in, like junior high. Jesus, I mean, I. I don't know. I graduated high school in 81, so I was in junior high in, like, 75.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

What the Were those movies?

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Don't you just want to know now?

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah. Are you gonna look it up?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

I mean, I was of the time of, like, we were all still watching the Don Hughes movies, even though that was, like, kind of. I was born in 84, and then when I was coming up, it was, like, Clueless. Clueless was the biggest movie on the planet when I was in school.

[Marc Maron]

Let's see. 70s teen movies. Okay, here we got a list. Meatballs.

[Gillian Bell]

Meatballs.

[Marc Maron]

Corvette. Summer. Didn't see it. Ice Castles. Didn't see it. American Graffiti. But that's a little. I saw that with my dad. Greece.

[Gillian Bell]

Greece.

[Marc Maron]

Carrie. Okay. The Wanderers. I did see that. That's 79. Rock and roll. High School. I think I saw it. Take down, I don't know, Cooley High. Aaron Loves Angela. Don't know. Lemon Popsicle? Nope. Want to hold your hand? I kind of remember seeing that. Summer of 42.

[Gillian Bell]

Hey.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, but that was.

[Gillian Bell]

That was the prequel. That's the prequel.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Right. The Last Picture Show I saw, but that was the Warriors. Yes. Okay, interesting. Those are just movies, though. Those aren't comedies. Yeah, interesting.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

That there weren't that many of those comedies.

[Gillian Bell]

Well, because the 70s was, like, also, like, a lot of horror, so I would think, like, whenever it was teenagers, it was like, Halloween or something.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I think the great age of teen comedies was probably the 80s.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

All right, well, great job.

[Gillian Bell]

Can I put that on our trailers?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, sure.

[Gillian Bell]

Can I just put. Great job, Marc Maron.

[Marc Maron]

You gotta put the. All right.

[Gillian Bell]

You said it was cute. Yeah, okay. It was cute. Marc Maron.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. But is that condescending?

[Gillian Bell]

It sounds a little condescending, but I know you don't mean it that way. Did you hear how surprised I was that you watched it? It just doesn't feel like a Marc Maron film. But.

[Marc Maron]

But I watch them.

[Gillian Bell]

I'm proud. You did.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I think cute is good.

[Gillian Bell]

Yeah. It means, like, sweet. Like, you ended up having a good time.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Gillian Bell]

Not a good time. A good time.

[Marc Maron]

I was able to understand the conceit of the movie.

[Gillian Bell]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

And then, you know, once I settled into it, I was like, oh, okay, good.

[Gillian Bell]

Okay, good.

[Marc Maron]

That's what I mean.

[Gillian Bell]

Good.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah. Maybe that's the blurb. I was like, oh, I love that.

[Gillian Bell]

You'Re trying to figure out your blurb right now for the trailer.

[Marc Maron]

All right, There you go. I Think we covered a lot of good stuff. Summer of 69 streams on Hulu starting May 9th. Always good to see Jillian. Hang out for a minute. One thing that's not going to surprise you if you're a regular listener. We love la. Why wouldn't we? It's been the home of the show for 16 years and I've lived here for longer than that. And when you come to visit Los Angeles, no matter how long you're here, you'll be able to take in a lot of stuff I love about this place. Like there's the food. There are seemingly endless options from all sorts of cuisines and dining styles. Yeah, you got B Wally Vegan AF out here in Eagle Rock. You got Crossroads for the high end, vegan food. A lot of stuff. Shopping here you go to Gimme Gimme Records if you want some records or Amoeba Records or Permanent records. And of course there's no substitute for LA when it comes to the best entertainment. Get over to Hollywood Boulevard and see a star ceremony on the Walk of Fame. Or come see me and dozens of other comedians at the Comedy Store, which has world class comedy every night, L.A. it's like 10 cities in one. If you come visit, I guarantee you'll love LA as much as I do. Find more ways to love [e-mail] hey folks, we've got the latest Ask Mark Anything episode posted for full Marin subscribers. It's an all new batch of questions from WTF listeners like this one. What was the impact of the Patrisse O'Neill episode and what are your feelings about it in hindsight? I think it's a very popular episode. I think it's a very thorough and good kind of audio portrait of who that guy was. I loved talking to him. I thought that he was at times a problematic guy in the way he thought about things, but he definitely had a way of thinking about things. And when some of his jokes that were the most provocative landed as a performer, no one was really as good as him and his whole being and presence on stage was something completely unique and powerful. I feel in hindsight that again, like I said, I think it's a very, a very thorough and great representation of Patrisse. I think it's a great testimony to who he was. I like that it's out there. And again, some of the things that he talked about and some of the ways he frames things are not the way I would and may be problematic to me or some others. But that's who he was and I'm glad we had that time to get bonus episodes twice a week and every episode of WTF Ad Free. Sign up for the full Marin just go to the link in the episode description or go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF plus here's some guitar I spent a long time on because I'm trying to kind of lock into this riff that I might want to, you know, kind of do with the band for the opening and closing of my HBO special. But this is just raw stuff and I kind of botch it up a little bit. But it did take a long time and I really get to a point where I just think I suck at guitar. But I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give it to you. You're gonna hear it. And just a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted Boomer Lives Monkey and La Fonda Cat Angels Everywhere.