Episode 1637 - Jessica Kirson

Summary

WTF with Marc Maron Podcast: Episode 1637 - Jessica Kirson

Release Date: April 24, 2025

---

Introduction

In Episode 1637 of the "WTF with Marc Maron Podcast," host Marc Maron reunites with Jessica Kirson, a fellow comedian, whom he previously welcomed back in Episode 1076 back in 2019. This episode stands out for Marc as "one of my favorite conversations in a long time," highlighting the deep emotional and cultural connection he feels with Jessica. Their discussion delves into shared Jewish heritage, family histories, and personal growth, all infused with their signature humor.

---

Shared Jewish Heritage and Cultural Connection

Marc and Jessica immediately bond over their Jewish backgrounds, reminiscing about their family histories and the immigrant roots that shape their identities. Marc reflects on the significance of Jewish culture in defining what American middle-class Judaism was, noting the influence of his grandparents who immigrated from Poland and Russia.

"There was just this look. We've both got, how should I say, Nyiddish spilkes. We have chronic spilkes, her and I." (02:35)

This shared cultural backdrop creates a profound sense of connection, allowing them to explore memories of family gatherings, traditional foods, and the unique aspects of Jewish life that have now become nostalgic relics.

---

Reminiscence of Jewish Family Life

The conversation deepens as Marc and Jessica recount vivid memories of their grandparents' households in New Jersey and Florida. Marc fondly describes his grandmother Goldie's afternoon dinners, filled with extended family members who shared stories, played mahjong, and enjoyed traditional Jewish cuisine.

"Goldie's brother Georgie, his wife Bertha, their daughter Phyllis, and her husband Marty. It was like, I know this just sounds like, well, what's the big deal? It's just a barbecue or whatever. It's not. It was a bunch of Jews of a certain type that existed in a time and that time is gone." (05:10)

Jessica echoes similar sentiments, sharing tales of her own grandparents and the tight-knit Jewish communities that once thrived in restaurants and delis.

---

Comedy and Personal Growth

Transitioning from family stories, Marc and Jessica discuss how their upbringing influenced their careers in comedy. They explore the role of humor as a coping mechanism against personal and familial challenges. Marc mentions how growing up with an emotionally complex family pushed him towards comedy as a way to transcend embarrassment and gain control.

"I feel like one of the reasons I got into comedy was to transcend embarrassment." (14:50)

Jessica adds that stand-up provided a familiar yet challenging space where she could navigate the traumas and nuances of her past through laughter.

---

Mental Health and Therapy

A significant portion of the conversation centers around mental health, with both Marc and Jessica opening up about their struggles with anxiety, depression, and the lasting impact of their parents' emotional abuse. Marc shares poignant anecdotes about his father's verbal abuse and how it shaped his perspective on relationships and self-worth.

"It's not easy because Danielle, first of all, my parents were older. She is nine years younger than me once — Mom's inappropriateness. I need a pouch." (38:18)

Jessica relates by discussing her own experiences with emotional neglect and the challenges of co-parenting after a painful divorce. They both emphasize the importance of therapy and medication in managing their mental health.

---

Family Relationships and Parenting

Marc and Jessica delve into their current family lives, discussing the complexities of parenting while dealing with their own emotional baggage. Marc talks about his brother's children and the strained relationships with his father, while Jessica shares the joys and struggles of raising her four daughters as a divorced mother.

"I couldn't not project my stuff onto them. I had to work on that a lot." (62:11)

Their candid conversations highlight the enduring effects of parental relationships on their roles as parents, emphasizing the continuous journey of healing and self-improvement.

---

Insights on Modern Culture and Comedy Specials

Towards the end of the episode, Marc and Jessica explore the evolution of comedy and its intersection with modern culture. Jessica introduces her new Hulu comedy special, "I'm the Man," discussing the creative process behind it and how it reflects her personal experiences with motherhood and relationships.

"Jessica Kherson's Hulu special 'I'm the Man' premieres tomorrow April 25th." (09:50)

They also touch upon the changing dynamics within the Jewish community and the broader societal shifts affecting humor and representation in comedy.

---

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with heartfelt acknowledgments of their enduring friendship and mutual respect. Marc praises Jessica for her honesty and depth, while Jessica appreciates Marc's ability to delve into profound personal topics with humor and authenticity.

"I love talking to you. You're amazing." (84:54)

Their conversation exemplifies the essence of "WTF with Marc Maron" – a blend of humor, vulnerability, and insightful discussions that resonate deeply with listeners.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Marc Maron:

  • "There was just this look. We've both got, how should I say, Nyiddish spilkes. We have chronic spilkes, her and I." (02:35)
  • "I feel like one of the reasons I got into comedy was to transcend embarrassment." (14:50)
  • "I don't want to say good, but some people have more success at killing the sensitivity that they have." (34:28)
  • "The deepest issues are this. The body." (79:40)

• Jessica Kirson:

  • "You are the kind of comic. Tell me, if I'm wrong." (22:44)
  • "I have trauma from how Mom treated me." (63:36)
  • "I need someone who's kind and who will work on themselves." (70:39)
  • "It's all negativity now." (30:24)

---

Final Thoughts

Episode 1637 with Jessica Kirson offers a profound exploration of shared cultural identities, personal traumas, and the unifying power of humor. Marc and Jessica’s heartfelt dialogue provides listeners with an intimate glimpse into their lives, underscored by the rich tapestry of their Jewish heritage and the healing journey through comedy.

Transcript

[Marc Maron]

Lock the gate. All right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck, Buddies? What the fuck? Nicks, what the hell is happening? How are you? What's going on? Where are you at? Well, look, you know, today, this is a great episode for me. I don't know what difference that makes to you, but I imagine it makes some. But this, to me, is one of my favorite conversations in a long time. Not saying they're not all great in some way, but emotionally and connectivity wise and just funny wise. This episode was a relief and a treat for me to do. I'll try to explain it to you. Well, today I talked to Jessica Kherson. She was on the show back in 2019 on episode 1076. If you want, you can go back to that episode to hear about her start in comedy and her personal background. But she came back just to kind of hang out, have a few laughs and, you know, talk about her new comedy special on Hulu called I'm the Man. Now, Jessica is somebody that I'm always happy to see for a very, very specific reason. There is a Jewish thing, okay? And look, I'm at an age now. I'm 61 years old now. A lot of times, you know, no matter what what is happening in the world or, you know, how, you know, preoccupied you are with the. With everything happening or what's on your phone or what's in your life or, you know, just like when you really realize how much time you spend just, you know, pummeling your brain with all kinds of bullshit distractions and things in your life, that the idea of really connecting with somebody, I don't know if you notice it happening or you take it for granted or it doesn't happen. I don't know. Look, you have people in your life, you have your kids, and everything becomes a pattern. Everything becomes a way of. You have a way of interacting with most people. Sometimes you connect in moments of crisis, or occasionally you have a few laughs or whatever. But to really kind of have some historical connection with someone that. That transcends your relationship with them is kind of an amazing thing. And, you know, when I was younger, there was a period there where you always saw. You kind of knew all the other Jews. There was just a way about Jewish culture that just kind of, like connected you all. And I feel that to a degree. But now I'm an old Jew and I'm of a different time. But with Jessica, Jessica's not that much younger than me, but she's about, you know, she's about five years younger than me or so. But there's just something about her. And I knew it immediately. Years ago, there was just this kind of look. We've both got, how should I say, Nyiddish spilkes. We have chronic spilkes, her and I. And that's just sort of like a state of anxiety, impatience, agitation, restlessness. It's, you know, it's. I'm taking medicine from my spilkes, to be honest with you. But. But the point I guess I'm trying to make is that at my age, it's not even nostalgia. There's something, you know, at the core of all of us that we come from historically a family of origin stuff that, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't go away. It kind of defines who you are. But how often do you really kind of dig into the roots of it? Not even on purpose. And this conversation I had with Jessica was beautiful because I think her and I, people in their 60s, I mean, we're probably the cutoff. There was a generation of Jews that sort of defined what American middle class Judaism was. Most of these people are either first generation or second generation of immigrants. Like my grandma Goldie was born in Poland, as was her brother Georgie, and they came over when she was like 3 or 4 years old. My grandpa Jack Jacob, her husband, was born here, but his parents were not. My grandpa Ben, my father's father, his father was born in Russia. My grandma Eleanor, I believe she was born in Poland or no, maybe she was born here, but her parents, you know, come from. They might have been here a little earlier. None of, none of my grandparents, you know, left like Germany because of the Holocaust. Most of my family was here before that. But the point I'm making is that there was a. Once the immigrant experience moved on, the next generation after the Lower east side, you know, and then they spread out. And sometimes I didn't even go to the Lower east side. They ended up in New Jersey or, you know, some of them ended up in New York, the Long island thing. But there was a generation of Jews that sort of defined, you know, what American Jews were. And it's very familiar to me. And it used to be very familiar culturally, but now maybe not. Maybe it's sort of a stereotype, but like, you know, somebody like Larry David is a little older than me, but like his parents generation would have been what I'm talking about. And I think he, like, more than anybody else publicly kind of represents that type of Jewish character or that type of Jewish history or that type of Jewish sensibility. But I grew up with it. Like, I grew up with my grandparents. And this is like a generational thing. You know, my grandparents were of that generation. You know, where you'd guy. We were in New Jersey before we left Jersey, when I was like, you know, six or seven. But I always went back there. You know, my grandmother would have, you know, these afternoon dinners where everyone would come over. You'd have, you know, Goldie and Jack, my grandparents. Goldie's brother Georgie, his wife Bertha, their daughter Phyllis, and her husband Marty. My grandma's cousin Sylvia and her husband Ellis, My grandma's sister Gussie and her husband Sam and their son Harold, my aunt Barbara, my mother. Like, it was like, I know this just sounds like, well, what's the big deal? It's just a barbecue or whatever. It's not. It was a bunch of Jews of a certain type that existed in a time and that time is gone. You know, people wonder, like, why are there no more delis anymore? Because everyone who used to eat at them is dead. And it's a novelty thing now. Like, I still go to Cantor's Deli here, but like, whatever. The only thing that's there is your sense of nostalgia and the structure of the place and what's in that deli case. But the people that used to populate these places on the daily. They're all gone, most of them. Unless there's a generational thing where, like, people my age go back, but you can't eat that way all the time. We all knew that. We know that now. And that's why, you know, some of them might have died, but they enjoyed themselves. But the thing about Jessica Kherson is that, like, she comes from this too. And we are wired that way. There is a voice within us that speaks this language of what we grew up with in New Jersey, with the generation of our parents and their parents more specifically. Like, my parents were already kind of like, had enough of it on some level. They went to New Mexico, her parents were around. But that generation was sort of a little different. They were, you know, they had their own thing going. But they were the generation that kind of went through the 60s and 70s and whatever, however that changed culture. But the bedrock of this thing, you know, were these old Jews. And I don't believe that I would be the person I am without, you know, my grandma Goldie. Cause my parents were kind of self involved. And my Grandma Goldie just thought I was the best thing ever. I was the first Grandkid on both sides. So I got a lot of attention. My. My father's parents, Ben and Eleanor, I spent time with them and my cousins a bit. But my grandma Goldie, if I went to New Jersey, I was at Goldie and Jack's house. Goldie would sit in her recliner and do the crosswords. Jack would lay on the couch on his side with his arm up in the air for some reason. Might have been circulatory. He'd watch sports. He'd love to watch the Three Stooges, you know, the Marx Brothers, the. The. The Bowery Boys. You know, it was just this thing. And my grandmother loved comedy. She used to tell me stories about going to see Buddy Hackett in Vegas, you know, when I was a little kid. She goes, I love Buddy Hackett. He's filthy, but he's very funny. Very funny. Don Rickles, I enjoy. You know, he apologizes very nicely after the show. You know, these were. This was. This informed me I was an old Jew before I was, you know, a teenager. And I had a kind of reverence for. For it. And, like, even when I was in college, I did Don't Drink the Water. I played the patriarch, and I did the whole thing with this and the that and the whatever, and I would have become that had I not pushed back on it. I mean, even when I was in college, I worked at a place called Gordon's Deli up in. What is it, Pottingham Circle? In Boston. It was a Jewish deli in Boston, one of the last ones. The guy who ran it was Shelly. I talked to Jessica about this. I don't want to ruin it for you, but I was. So at that point, I'm like, I want to immerse myself in this. You know, I want to know that deli case. I want to cut the corned beef. I want to serve the sandwiches, and I want to sort of immerse myself in that generation's culture and. Because it is part of my heart, you know. But, like, I remember going to Vegas. We grew up in New Mexico. We'd meet my grandparents in Vegas. You know, when there was some sort of convention, they'd go out there once a year. We'd be at the MGM Grand. And, you know, I remember asking. I must have been in college. I remember asking my grandmother, do you like coming to Vegas? And she said, you know, it was nicer when the boys ran things. This was the generation who knew Vegas when the boys ran things. And there's such a joy for me, and it just doesn't happen that often. I can't remember the last time that happened. To reminisce about that. To reminisce about that childhood around those people and what that world looked like and how we see it now. And it just happened organically in this conversation with Jessica, you know, it just happened. But even though I never talked to Jessica and you know, when I see her, I'm always excited, but the connection is crazy. And it's such a gift. And it just as when I was younger, I noticed it more because, you know, I was around more Jewish kids here and there, whether it was my cousins in New Jersey or you go to New York. There was a familiarity to the whole thing. And now, like, I haven't been around that in a long time. You know, whatever anyone thinks about Hollywood, there may be a lot of Jews here, but culturally I'm not hanging out in that world where, you know, we have these conversations and there's something so specific about the Jersey Jewish conversation here that it was just such a. It's not even nostalgic. It was like reconnecting with your fucking roots. It was deep. I don't even know if it'll translate to you people how much we were laughing at this shit, but it was so, it was so grounding. Two crazy fucking, you know, 50 something and 60 something year old Jewish comedians doing this thing that it wasn't about comedy, it. It was about our roots, our core, what defined us, what we came from as children. My parents were married in Jeff Ross's family's catering hall. We found that out recently. His family owned a catering hall in Jersey. It was very popular place to have events and my parents were married there. I remember going into fucking Patterson with my grandmother. I think the place was called Pay Tax or something. We used to have to drive for 45 minutes to buy fish, smoked fish. And it was. We'd go to the Pompton Queens Diner. It's like it all has to do with Jersey, man. Diner culture, deli culture, buying smoked fish culture, you know, catering hall culture. I mean, it's all gone. It's all gone. And when. And after talking to Jessica, I realized what a fucking gift it was to grow up in it. Because I really think we had to be the last generation that did. In a general way. Sure. Everyone's got, you know, having grandparents that spoke Yiddish when they didn't want you to understand things, you know, And I've had these Jewish conversations with people before, but usually there's something about the Orthodox community that have maintained this but this is not. We were not Orthodox. We were just sort of, you know, middle class, culturally Jewish. We did the thing, got the bar mitzvahs, went to temple when we were supposed to. But it was really a cultural thing, so it wasn't immersive in a religious way. But culturally, it was very specific. And it was just, you know, it was like, enriching and sort of emotional to have this hilarious connection and conversation with Jessica on this episode. And, like, look, there's been plenty of Julie episodes, but it was like. It was almost like you're looking in the mirror or you're looking at your sibling, or you're looking at somebody that went through something with you, and you come from the same communal identity that goes back, you know, to the beginning of time. It's crazy. I'm a dynasty typewriter here in LA. This Saturday, April 26, and again next Tuesday, April 29. Toronto. I'm at the Winter Garden on Saturday, May 3, for two shows. Burlington, Vermont. I'm at the Vermont Comedy Club for two shows on Monday, May 5, and one show Tuesday, May 6. Portsmouth, New Hampshire. I'll be at the Music hall on Wednesday, May 7. Then I'm in Brooklyn for my HBO special, taping at the Bam Harvey Theater on May 10th. Two shows there go to wtfpod.com tour for all my dates and links to tickets. Currently, my inner self is trying to completely take down my outer self before the special. This is something that always happens around a couple weeks before we're almost there, where I decide that the shirt I wanna wear is too tight, that my haircut stinks, that I'm too fat to do that. You know, I'm not. I'm not very good at what I do. Like, it just. There's some part of me, no matter how much cognitive work or just acting as if I've done, and no matter how professional I am out in the world and capable and doing a great job, when I'm converging on something important to me, my inner self is like, well, yeah, we're going to take you down. You're going down, buddy. We just want to make it as challenging as possible. There's no reason to be comfortable with yourself as you enter this important day where you do your new work. We're gonna just. It's already, you know, a big. A big task and an exciting one, but, you know, you know, it's a big job. We just want to make sure that you're as destabilized as possible. When we get to the day. So now, fortunately, I'm onto that. But it's happening. So look folks, there's a documentary about me that I watched with a full audience recently and when I watched it, I had an uncomfortable realization. I, I, I cannot keep my pants up. I don't know why they're always falling down. I swear to God when I buy them, they fit. They look good when I buy them, but at some point they just make their way below my stomach down to that belt line and then they hang off my ass. I don't know why it is a thing and I'm not happy about it. I just don't like having pants up over my belly button. I don't like it, I don't like the way it looks, I don't like it the way it feels, Whatever. Thankfully, I, I may have found a work around here. If my pants are destined to keep falling down, I can at least be wearing my skims underneath. Yes, skims are happening for the fellas. Maybe your wife or girlfriend has been buying skims and you've heard how comfortable their underwear is. Now they're making a full line of underwear for men in cotton and stretch material with several styles and colors. So you can pick just the right one for you. I got the 5 inch cotton boxer briefs and because skims are tight fitting but comfortable, I don't have to worry about my exposure issues. If my pants start swiffing again, at least I can have that nice the nice top of the underwear, you know, showing through the pants. But even for all you people who know how to properly cinch a belt, you can rest assured that you'll make it through your day in high quality underwear that puts other brands to shame. Shop skims men'[e-mail] and skim stores. Let them know we sent you. After you place your order, select podcast in the survey and select this show in the dropdown menu that follows. Skims is the official underwear partner of the NBA, WNBA and USA Basketball. And also me right now. I'm wearing them right now. They're good. They're good underwear. Okay, so you're ready to lock in with a couple of very anxious but excited middle aged Jews laughing their asses off talking about their their childhood. Well, that's about to happen. Jessica Kherson's Hulu special I'm the man premieres tomorrow April 25th. But enjoy this, will you enjoy us talking? We did folks, we're only a few months into the year and I've already been all over the country in 2025 doing my stand updates. I've been up to Napa and Sacramento, then back down to Santa Barbara and Monterey. I was in Colorado and back in my hometown of Albuquerque, then the Midwest. And it's odd even when I've been to a town that I'm always surprised and I always do new things. There are certain things I like to do that I always do. But I' never driven over the Black Mountains of Kentucky. I'd never done all that. You know, when you get out there and you get out in the world and you get off the interstate, you know, you get to really take it in. And I've got plenty more travel to come as I build up to taping my standup special. Traveling is a big part of my life. And if you do even a fraction of the traveling that I do, you might start thinking about hosting your place on Airbnb while you're away. And now you can get a co host to handle all the hosting duties for you. These are high quality local co hosts who take care of your home and your guests. Find a co [e-mail] host I guess for some reason, I guess I'm a little emotional. Do you ever watch. I don't know what the is wrong with me.

[Jessica Kherson]

You're emotional.

[Marc Maron]

I'm very emotional.

[Jessica Kherson]

What happened?

[Marc Maron]

Have you ever seen that, that clip? But it's a Graham Norton hosted thing where he had all these Adele impersonators. No, it's fucking ridiculous. It's like it's all these women and one drag queen who are Adele impersonators. And before the contest, they got the real Adele and they put a fake nose on her makeup and she's one of the impersonators, right.

[Jessica Kherson]

Oh, that's so funny.

[Marc Maron]

And all these ones, they all go up there, all the different ones. You know, there's like five or six of them and they're fine. They're good.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know, and they're all talking backstage to the real Adele, who's like, I'm nervous.

[Jessica Kherson]

You know, that's great.

[Marc Maron]

And when she comes out at the end and they're all sitting there, there's just like seven or eight of them watching this woman. And they. You can see them realize it. Cause they don't recognize her, but they hear the voice and there's these moments of like, like, like, it just go right. It just made me cry. It's made me cry three times.

[Jessica Kherson]

Really?

[Marc Maron]

I didn't watch it all three times today, but every time I see it just came up.

[Jessica Kherson]

What makes you cry? About it?

[Marc Maron]

That's a good question. I don't really know. There's something about singing in general that I find very moving.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But I think it's these, you know, these women who love her and spend their life trying to be her out of this peculiar fandom and talent, having that moment of seeing their idol, and you just see, like, they don't even know what to do with it. Like, shocked to see it computing, because it's still. They're still not sure. But one of them, right, when she hits the first note, she's like, you know. Yeah. And I just think that, you know, I guess it's just a. I don't know if it's empathetic or. I don't. I just. The feeling of that, it makes me. Tears me up.

[Jessica Kherson]

Because they love something so much, and it's a happy moment. It's beautiful.

[Marc Maron]

It's happy. But completely surprising. Like, never in their wildest fucking dreams. Right, would they ever, ever think they'd even meet her. And they spend their lives being her, you know, out of homage, out of love. And just to see them have that moment is pretty human.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah, it is. I know. I'm not gonna watch it. It sounds too moving.

[Marc Maron]

What, you don't cry?

[Jessica Kherson]

No, I cry sometimes. I put on music to make myself cry. Cause I'm having emotions and I can't get there. I didn't cry for years as a kid. This is horrible. But I really didn't. Cause my father did not have an easy time when I cried.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I think I. I'm trying to remember. I seem to cry. Well, that's interesting about the music triggering the tears. Because I'm doing a whole. My closing bit. Sort of. About that. Yeah, about. About that. Like, I didn't. Not on purpose, but. But there are some things I listen to on purpose and they'll tear me up. But like. But never. It never seems to be the appropriate moment to cry. It's always like a. Like a movie or a commercial or an animal video. But when I'm in a relationship.

[Jessica Kherson]

Everything makes me cry.

[Marc Maron]

No, I just. Like, they're. They're. I don't know. You know, I. I'm just. I'm not wired. Right. So. What. What's going on?

[Jessica Kherson]

Oh, God. What? I mean, I'm never great.

[Marc Maron]

I watched a special.

[Jessica Kherson]

You did?

[Marc Maron]

I did, yes. Very funny.

[Jessica Kherson]

Oh, thank you.

[Marc Maron]

Filthy and mean and.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Charming. It's very charming.

[Jessica Kherson]

Thank you. It. You know, I am happy with it. I feel like you're the kind of comic. Tell Me, if I'm wrong. Do you watch your sets or listen to them? You do, right?

[Marc Maron]

No, I don't.

[Jessica Kherson]

I can't.

[Marc Maron]

I record everything. I've got 900 sets on you and I'm building an hour. And, like, there are definitely moments where I'm like, I should listen to that. I don't.

[Jessica Kherson]

Me either. Do you know that you can read it?

[Marc Maron]

You can read it?

[Jessica Kherson]

Yes, Someone showed me the other day. I'll show you.

[Marc Maron]

From your recordings on your phone?

[Jessica Kherson]

Yes. And you don't have to listen to. I don't have to listen to my horrible.

[Marc Maron]

I don't really mind that. It's just, to me, it's sort of like, I gotta find the thing.

[Jessica Kherson]

I know it's a.

[Marc Maron]

And I gotta listen to, you know.

[Jessica Kherson]

But you can read the whole thing. It can transcript it right?

[Marc Maron]

On your phone.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yep.

[Marc Maron]

Listen to me. I'm like 90 on the phone.

[Jessica Kherson]

On the phone. You can read it. I don't. Tell me what. Press button to use.

[Marc Maron]

Where's the button?

[Jessica Kherson]

Where's the button?

[Marc Maron]

One time I took my mother's boyfriend back before he, like, got lost somehow.

[Jessica Kherson]

What do you mean? He just walked away?

[Marc Maron]

No, it's. His daughter took him away. He was losing it, you know.

[Jessica Kherson]

Oh. Oh, okay.

[Marc Maron]

But he gave me his phone once to do something. There was like 900 open apps.

[Jessica Kherson]

I know, they never close. My mother has 460,000 emails on her phone. You know, I have OCD with that, so I can't even be. I can't be near her phone. I erase text so that I don't have too many on my thing.

[Marc Maron]

I don't do the text, but I don't like the emails. I don't like the number. Yeah, the number, it causes me anxiety.

[Jessica Kherson]

The number causes me anxiety, too. That's so funny.

[Marc Maron]

So then I do the select all. All. Mark is red. And one time. This is just like a couple weeks ago, I opened up my phone. I'm like, what the fuck? All my emails are gone. I'm like, what the fuck happened? And I'm looking at Google and I'm looking at everything else, but when. When you do the select all.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And then it says mark. The other option right above Mark is red is move to junk. So I moved everything and I was. It was a panic. I was about to call. Who do you even call? How do I call Google?

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. Hello, Google. I moved my emails.

[Marc Maron]

I don't know where they are.

[Jessica Kherson]

To my Florida house. Yeah, My mom, when she sends me emojis, but she can't see anything. So she just taps on random things. Like, she'll send me, like, a squirrel, a rainbow, and, like, a gun. I'm like, what? What's happening?

[Marc Maron]

If I show you the picture from my mother's, you will die.

[Jessica Kherson]

From her What?

[Marc Maron]

You know when. Sometimes I don't know how it happened or what the mistake was, but, you know, you could have a picture for your profile.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Like, when they call you, it comes up.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. Is it her profile?

[Marc Maron]

No, it's just, like, a picture of her shoe. Right.

[Jessica Kherson]

How did that.

[Marc Maron]

I don't know. And then on the picture, it just says pizza. I don't even.

[Jessica Kherson]

Wait a second. Are you kidding? You have no idea how it got there?

[Marc Maron]

No. She must have been fucking around with it. It's not her picture on her name. It's. You know when they call you. Yes.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

Something happens.

[Jessica Kherson]

Do you understand how funny that is? It's just a shoe.

[Marc Maron]

It's just a shoe.

[Jessica Kherson]

What kind of sho. A slipper?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, something. She was just holding it, and then it says pizza on it. And I don't know what the fuck. That.

[Jessica Kherson]

That is so funny.

[Marc Maron]

I gotta take a picture of it when she calls, but she barely used to picture her.

[Jessica Kherson]

Do you ever FaceTime with her? Cause my mom. I just see her forehead. Literally, I'm like, could you move the phone down? She said, hi. Can you see me? I'm like, no, I see your hairline.

[Marc Maron]

My mother doesn't FaceTime, and I don't. I don't. It's getting worse and worse in terms of what I have to say to her.

[Jessica Kherson]

Me too.

[Marc Maron]

Like the yesterday. What?

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah, no, I'm going through that also. I understand.

[Marc Maron]

But it's not like she's not. She's. My dad's losing his mind. She's not losing her mind. I just don't think she ever had anything to really say and.

[Jessica Kherson]

About what? About anything?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, not much, you know? Cause, like, now, like, my brother. I call my brother. He's like, I'm at lunch with mom right now. You know, she's in Florida. And they put. Of course, he put her in a place down there. And he goes, you want to talk to her? I go, yeah. She goes, hi, Mark. And I'm like, hi. She goes, what are you doing? I'm like, well, you know, I'm home. I'm working. And I go, how's everything with you? And she goes, you know, everything's. I'm okay. I'm good. And she. And I go, that's good. And she goes, I Guess that's it.

[Jessica Kherson]

Do you know who that reminds me of, why I'm laughing? My grandmother.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

She goes, so, how you doing? I'm like, I'm good. She's like, okay, good. Like, there's no she.

[Marc Maron]

I know.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. She never listened. I used to do a bit that she answered her own question. You're going to relate. Like, how you doing? Good.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yes, we're good. Good. Like, I wasn't even in the conversation.

[Marc Maron]

It's some sort of. I don't know. It's a defensiveness. I don't know what it is. It's how they stay sane.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. I don't know. My mom just tells me, like, health stuff now. I mean, I know this is like a running joke with people, but it just happened yesterday. I'm like, what's new with you? She's like, I have. I have something on my back. But Herb's daughter, her boyfriend's daughter is a skin doctor, and she said, you know, they should take a sample. And Herb's okay. His heart is doing well. We're going to Italy. I just hope we are okay there. I just. It's like, all negative.

[Marc Maron]

My. I don't know. My mom's not negative. I just. Sometimes I think that my entire life, you know, when you realize that, but you probably don't. Maybe yours are different. I don't know how actually sophisticated they really were or whether they were ever really big thinkers. You know, My dad was a doctor. My mom painted and stuff. She knew things. But conversationally, my dad just likes to start shit.

[Jessica Kherson]

You know, my dad was. Wow. He was.

[Marc Maron]

I do a joke now on the stage because my dad's got dementia, but his wife's kind of like a Christian Trumpy person.

[Jessica Kherson]

Really?

[Marc Maron]

A little bit, yeah. And when she goes out of the house, she just sits him in front of, you know, Fox News, right? And he's never really been that political, but he does like to, you know, start. But it doesn't go in right anymore. Like, I call him up and I go, you know, what's going on, dad? He goes, what do you think about these blacks coming into the country?

[Jessica Kherson]

Oh, my God.

[Marc Maron]

And I said. I said, I think you're conflating two separate racist ideas.

[Jessica Kherson]

The Arabs brought COVID 19 into the. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

It's just. But I don't know what.

[Jessica Kherson]

Well, my dad would only watch Fox News and Trump when he was dying. So I'm watching him die. He's like, I'm gonna watch him. I'm gonna watch Trump. If you don't want to fucking be with me. You don't have to be in the room. But I'm not. I'm not turning it off.

[Marc Maron]

And he never did before.

[Jessica Kherson]

He did, like, when Trump came along, he's. He cared about money and he cared, you know.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. He was always a Democrat.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

And then, like, a lot of people. A lot of Jewish people, he turned.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, well, yeah, because they had all sort of gotten away or maybe were never really on board with this sort of progressive Jewish thing, you know, like the Jews.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah, my mom is, but. Yeah, you're right. My dad.

[Marc Maron]

And then they realize it's like they're taking how much. And then. And then it's sort of like, what are they doing to Israel? And that was it.

[Jessica Kherson]

It's both. Yeah, you're right.

[Marc Maron]

That's it. My money and Israel.

[Jessica Kherson]

That's exactly what it was with him.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, that's what it. That's what it is. And now look what happens. Now look where we are.

[Jessica Kherson]

Oh, we were in a great place.

[Marc Maron]

It's gonna be awesome.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I'm just.

[Jessica Kherson]

I'm so glad it's just starting, you know? Like, we're not. Well, we're not three or four years in. Like, it's just awesome.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah. We got everything to look forward to.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. Yeah. I feel really safe.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Authoritarianism, so. It's so exhausting. It's like. Like I don't have enough to worry about on my own.

[Jessica Kherson]

Are you kidding? My head is a war zone. It's. I can't, by the way. I can't. I don't. I don't think about it a lot anymore. And I can't watch the new. I can't. Like, I'm one of those people.

[Marc Maron]

Since yesterday.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah, since this morning. I can't give it up.

[Marc Maron]

I've turned my phone off. I just turned my phone off. I'm over it.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

When? Two hours ago.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

Right when we started talking.

[Marc Maron]

Is this the first. This your first special?

[Jessica Kherson]

No, no, my first special was on Comedy Central, and now this one's on Hulu, so.

[Marc Maron]

That was a while ago.

[Jessica Kherson]

It was. And you're gonna. This is amazing. It was on once. I mean, can you believe that? All the money, all the time. They put it on one time.

[Marc Maron]

I hate I missed it.

[Jessica Kherson]

I'm shocked that you weren't on Comedy Central. That one hour.

[Marc Maron]

That's the worst.

[Jessica Kherson]

That one was called Talking to Myself.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

Which. Because I turn around and have those conversations with myself on. I don't even know if you've seen me do that.

[Marc Maron]

I saw it on the special and you brought attention to it, how creative it was.

[Jessica Kherson]

I love saying that because some people are like, what the fuck just happened? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was on once. And then they put it to the paper like you had to pay for it. So one person watched it.

[Marc Maron]

And then so fucking the sort of, you know, the levels of rejection available. You know, you spend all your time trying to get over your own personal fear of rejection, then you finally get that, and then you get opportunities that don't go anywhere, and then you get rejected. And then literally you do a thing and you're like, finally. And they're like, where do I find it? And you're like, I don't know.

[Jessica Kherson]

We lost it. Yeah, it's on Adam. Yeah. We deal with a lot of. You know, that's part of why standup worked for me in the beginning. Cause I'm like, this is familiar. It's a horrible feeling.

[Marc Maron]

I believe for me that because my parents, my mother specifically, was so embarrassing to me.

[Jessica Kherson]

So was mine.

[Marc Maron]

That I feel like one of the reasons I got into comedy was to transcend embarrassment.

[Jessica Kherson]

Mm.

[Marc Maron]

To have control over power.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah, that's. Makes sense.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. But the journey there is so embarrassing.

[Jessica Kherson]

It is horrible.

[Marc Maron]

It's the most embarrassing thing. Mortifying to be up there and just not doing well. And it's just like.

[Jessica Kherson]

It's abusive to yourself. That's what I'm saying. It's self inflicting abuse.

[Marc Maron]

That's why I can't usually go to the Comedy Cellar. Because for me, trying to get into that place, you know, when I was younger and doing the kind of comedy I did, it was always hard and they were always judgmental. You know, Esti and Manny. And then I used to tell the other comics to leave the room so I could get some work done.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah, I get it. It's the worst thing when comics, when.

[Marc Maron]

You go on stage at the Comedy Cellar and it tells sitting there, I'm like, can you just go? I mean, it's late. Let me just try to figure this out, please. Yeah, but I think one of the reasons I didn't go there that much is it's like going to where the trauma happens.

[Jessica Kherson]

It is.

[Marc Maron]

It's like.

[Jessica Kherson]

You go upstairs to the table and you're like, I'm gonna be abused here.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I don't mind that. It's just not doing well on that fucking stage.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. I was. I was auditioning for Conan once at Stand Up New York many years ago, and There were comics in the corner talking and laughing at me. Like they really was being horrific. And in middle of my audition, I said something.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

I'm like, you guys are disgusting.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

Like your other comics. I'm up here. Like, I addressed it. I just have to do that sometimes. I can't.

[Marc Maron]

It's like, I can't. There's nothing we can do that's a fucking problem. It's a sensitivity. We're sensitive and we all are. Right. But the good. I don't want to say good, but some people have more success at killing the sensitivity that they have.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Cause like, even now, like, you know, just adapting to like, Internet comments or trolling and all that stuff, it's like, you've got to have a callous to it, but it all goes in.

[Jessica Kherson]

It all goes in.

[Marc Maron]

You're like, I don't really care, but that takes two hours.

[Jessica Kherson]

I have a great story about that. I sang in a car. Used to sing in the car and do like silly singing. I didn't even tell a joke. And it was on Facebook. It went viral. It was one of my first videos going viral years ago. And someone wrote. Someone wrote, I hope she hits a tree and dies on impact. And it was liked by like 65,000 people. Like, they all were happy. Yeah, it's just. It's like, you know, it's the same thing. Everyone says you could have 5,000amazing comments in that one. You know, what is that, though?

[Marc Maron]

Because it's like. It's a physical feeling.

[Jessica Kherson]

It's. It's very hard.

[Marc Maron]

But you feel that, that, that hurt in your whole body, which is like, hits you. So there must be some twisted thing that, that, that, that is a tangible feeling and it's something that, you know, we're obviously used to.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. For me, it's historic. Like, it's. It's from my past. It's. I can feel it. I know it. It's from, you know, having it.

[Marc Maron]

It's a full body.

[Jessica Kherson]

I know.

[Marc Maron]

Like, you just want to fall into your a hole.

[Jessica Kherson]

I know.

[Marc Maron]

You want to disappear.

[Jessica Kherson]

Horrible. I get every day when you wake up. No, I get it when I. Yeah, my whole day I feel like that. No, from videos I get, you know, because my videos are all over. So.

[Marc Maron]

So. Oh, you mean you look at the comments?

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah, No, I mean, I don't. Like, I'll just. It'll come up. Like sometimes I just go on it and it'll say the comment.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

If I look at something.

[Marc Maron]

So the, the. The first special was how many Years ago. Was that like the first time you're on here, like six years ago or something?

[Jessica Kherson]

May have been, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Wow.

[Jessica Kherson]

I know.

[Marc Maron]

And this one. But no one can watch that one or it's on YouTube now.

[Jessica Kherson]

No, you have to pay for it on Comedy Central.

[Marc Maron]

It's a fucking nightmare.

[Jessica Kherson]

They showed it once, you know, I get it back. I just realized. I'm sorry. I get it back this year.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, good.

[Jessica Kherson]

It was like a six year deal that we get it back. I'm really excited about it.

[Marc Maron]

How's this stuff? Is it all different stuff?

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And it's like. And you're not, like, timely?

[Jessica Kherson]

No, no, no. It's nothing. It's all like family stuff.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, this one I thought was really funny. And that audience was so fucking good.

[Jessica Kherson]

They were amazing. I mean, it's a lot of gay men. They're the best. That's a huge.

[Marc Maron]

What do you think? I'm trying to figure that out about, like, because I noticed it with Lampanelli used to have big, huge.

[Jessica Kherson]

You know, I think first of all, they've made a lot of female comics. If you think about it, like Cassandra Bernhard, Marvin.

[Marc Maron]

Specific type, though. You gotta be dirty and angry and aggress.

[Jessica Kherson]

You have to be. Yes. And you have to be powerful because they don't get threatened by a powerful woman. They love it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

And they feel understood by me and accepted and I understand their culture because I spend so much time around gay men doing gay cruises, like, everything.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

So, you know, they feel like I, I have their back.

[Marc Maron]

I've. I've. I've thought about that before and I've talked about it before. I don't know, I don't think I talked about it with you. That. It seemed to me that there was a time in gay culture where it was, you know, kind of singular and like, it was mostly gay men, but because the women were gay as well, they kind of had a. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Like, you know, you've got these, like, tough, butch lesbian girls. Guess we gotta go hang out with those guys.

[Jessica Kherson]

What is she wearing? Those guys. I'll become friends with her because I need things fixed in my house. Yeah. It is a weird combination, right? It is.

[Marc Maron]

It's real.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah, it's real. I. You know, Les, older lesbians have a thing about some gay men now that they were there for them during aids. Like, they really showed up and they feel. I think some of them feel like, you know, gay men don't support them.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, really?

[Jessica Kherson]

That's the older Generation. Yeah, I've heard that a lot.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I once saw a sketch, it must have been at the Aspen Comedy Festival, that I thought was one of the best sketches about gay culture that I'd ever seen, because it was really. It was about this gay couple who were the older generation, and they were just all sitting around with their leather hat, hi. Chaps on and stuff, and they're having a younger couple, and these guys were dressed in Dockers.

[Jessica Kherson]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

And just the comparison of that first generation of, like, Stonewall gay dudes, that's really funny. And then the younger generation, you're just trying to pass in life. It was hilarious. I wonder what happened to that guy, John Rigi. He was kind of a genius. He was a writer and a comic kind of. But he's so funny.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. I love that kind of stuff because when I travel all over the country, the gay men are different. Of course, in certain places, it's hysterical. Like, you'll go to Oklahoma and some of them wearing cowboy hats, and I'm like, you're really trying to pass for straight. Dangerous.

[Marc Maron]

Is it. Is that true?

[Jessica Kherson]

Well, it's. I don't think they're trying to do it, but it's just. Well, I think it's more obviously, more acceptable for them to, like, walk around Oklahoma, not be so.

[Marc Maron]

And I wonder. I think I. It seems to me that even in this sort of authoritarian shit show that. That the gay men. It doesn't seem to be as targeted. You know, it's all about trans people.

[Jessica Kherson]

All about trans.

[Marc Maron]

And it seems like, you know, gay people just. There is an integration there. It's not as stigmatized as it used to be. Is that true, do you think?

[Jessica Kherson]

I do. I think that when it comes to kids, though, and stuff, it could be, you know, that's an issue. But I also think because, you know, Trump is so, like. Wants to be liked. A lot of gay men not. I mean. Yeah, there's a big handful who supported him and voted.

[Marc Maron]

A bunch of Republican gay guys.

[Jessica Kherson]

That's what I'm saying. So I think he's like, well, we can lay off them for a while.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. They got money. Some of them have money.

[Jessica Kherson]

Right. And they like me.

[Marc Maron]

Probably the money more. I don't. Right.

[Jessica Kherson]

You're right.

[Marc Maron]

I'm starting to be concerned that he's not caring as much as he used to about people liking him.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. That's a big concern.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

Because then he'll just do anything.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. If he doesn't give a fuck. But, I mean, a lot of those Tech guys are half gay.

[Jessica Kherson]

I love that you just said half gay. Their left side is as gay.

[Marc Maron]

Is that. Is that wrong? Did I just say something wrong?

[Jessica Kherson]

No, I. I always say that kind of thing. I think so many. Yeah, there are.

[Marc Maron]

I do a whole joke about the. The young sort of Nazis being kind of like. And they. Gay guys don't like when you make that association that the reason they're like that is because they're latent or, you know, closeted. They don't. It's like we don't want them, you know, But.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah, but you're right. And a lot of them are adorable.

[Marc Maron]

Totally. There was, like. I saw pictures. I saw pictures, but, like, you know, from like, one of those ones, the Charlotte, the one that has.

[Jessica Kherson]

I did too. I know.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, my God, there's so much gay face in here. Are they dressing up? Is this. Is this camo drag? I mean, what the fuck is happening?

[Jessica Kherson]

Is this a march for Equinox? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And now, like, they were. Yeah, it was crazy. And all. Some of these guys are getting jawbone implants and I'm like, what? Just come out.

[Jessica Kherson]

I know. Well, they. They probably are. And they. They're enraged or scared, whatever. I. It's also what's happening. I don't.

[Marc Maron]

I don't. This is a very specific place to poke. But. Yeah, nothing good is happening.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So. But I don't know that the last time you were here, you must have had the kids, but we don't remember talking about it.

[Jessica Kherson]

I think that I. No, I had an old. So I have one daughter with my ex, Sherry, and then I have three with my ex now Danielle.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

But I was still married when I was in the last time, and I. I think I had one with Danielle.

[Marc Maron]

Wow. So. But you had them all from Fresh.

[Jessica Kherson]

What does that mean, fresh?

[Marc Maron]

They were all babies. Cause it seemed like you would have had.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yes. So what happened? I'm very open about it. So with the first. My first daughter, we used a donor and Shari got pregnant and then with the next three, with Danielle used a different donor, of course, and those. And she got pregnant with three children.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, @ the same time?

[Jessica Kherson]

No, she had Isabella and then three. Or. Yeah. Three years later, she. We had twins, which was not as in vitro crazy.

[Marc Maron]

That's why you didn't even have them then.

[Jessica Kherson]

I didn't have them.

[Marc Maron]

You just had the one. But you just. Oh.

[Jessica Kherson]

Oh, oh, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

When I talked to you.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

How old's that kid? The oldest.

[Jessica Kherson]

She's at University of Delaware. She's a freshman. She's 18.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, my God. So. Because you talk about that in the special. Just sort of kind of having to deal with somebody that age.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah, it's a lot. I mean, she's the best kid in the world. She's so good. But like, she talks like this. Like, oh, my God, when are you coming to visit me? Yeah, yeah. It's a lot. My anxious head.

[Marc Maron]

But. But is that an affectation or is it.

[Jessica Kherson]

They all talk like that.

[Marc Maron]

Right. That's what I mean.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. That's bizarre.

[Marc Maron]

Right?

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah, yeah, it's a lot. It's. It's really, like, not, like, present. Like, it's not centered. Like, they're all on their phones.

[Marc Maron]

Everyone's talking like an influencer. It's, you know.

[Jessica Kherson]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

And. But I. I've talked to people. Like, I did a movie with some woman who is, you know, in her 20s, and they're using phrases and terms. I don't even know what they're saying.

[Jessica Kherson]

I have no idea what she says at the time.

[Marc Maron]

Except for cringe.

[Jessica Kherson]

She calls me cringe sometimes. I'm like, you know.

[Marc Maron]

You're cringe?

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Well, it's not a bad thing.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. No, it's not. I feel like I.

[Marc Maron]

Sometimes I want you to lean into the cringe.

[Jessica Kherson]

I do it sometimes when people don't want me to. I don't like being told I'm a comic, so I don't like feeling suppressed or having people tell me what I can and can't say or do or anything.

[Marc Maron]

But I think there's, like. With this phone inter. Like, I'm starting to realize, just from having done radio in my life, that the frequency that people operate in terms of engaging with people who are talking to them from their phone, it's almost like a mania.

[Jessica Kherson]

It is mania.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And it's.

[Jessica Kherson]

It's like addictive. It very. It really is.

[Marc Maron]

And it. You catch it and you talk. You don't think it. You just, like. You just plow through, you know, you don't. Kind of, like, you're not thoughtful.

[Jessica Kherson]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

Unless that's your particular brand.

[Jessica Kherson]

It's not present. That's what I mean. It's like.

[Marc Maron]

I don't know what it is, but it's not connected to something.

[Jessica Kherson]

Right. That's what I mean. I mean, more. It's not connected at all.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah. But what's she studying? Does she know what she wants?

[Jessica Kherson]

Well, she's an actress, an assistant. She's been doing it since she's four. I know, it's crazy. And she's incredible. Like a Broadway singer.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

She was in a movie with Dairo and Bobby. Carnival. I forgot how to say it.

[Marc Maron]

Carnivale.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. When Bobby. He played a comic. It was like a year or two ago.

[Marc Maron]

I saw that movie.

[Jessica Kherson]

Oh, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

She was like the autistic kid.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah, yeah. She played the daughter that they went to stay with.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I saw that movie.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. Yeah. She's stunning. She really is. And she was in, like, you know, played.

[Marc Maron]

And, you know, De Niro, right?

[Jessica Kherson]

Yes, very well.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. I worked with him side by side for months. He saw me at the Cellar. It's crazy.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. For what'd you work with him on the movie?

[Jessica Kherson]

The comedian, Right.

[Marc Maron]

That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Right. But you guys are still friends.

[Jessica Kherson]

We haven't talked in a while, but we got very, very close.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

I mean, if I reached out to him, he would. He would talk to me right away.

[Marc Maron]

Did you see him when your daughter was on the movie?

[Jessica Kherson]

No, because I was on the road every five. I mean, it was crazy.

[Marc Maron]

I thought he was great in that movie. I love seeing him in small part. Like, I prefer it these days.

[Jessica Kherson]

Do you know that I. When I met him, literally, Trump started running for president the first time, and I. But in his trailer with him, that.

[Marc Maron]

Bunker, that traveling bunker he had.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yes. Unbelievable.

[Marc Maron]

I know. I did.

[Jessica Kherson]

Unreal.

[Marc Maron]

I did one scene with him in the Joker, and I'm sure he has no recollection of me because I was just, you know, like a. Probably a day player to him. But we had a thing, and it was the day that they had found bombs. Remember, there was a bomb threat and there was one at his office.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yes, yes.

[Marc Maron]

And one.

[Jessica Kherson]

Oh, my God.

[Marc Maron]

At Hillary Clinton's house or something. It was a threat. It wasn't real, but it was that day.

[Jessica Kherson]

Wow.

[Marc Maron]

So he was managing that situation.

[Jessica Kherson]

That's crazy.

[Marc Maron]

It was crazy.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. He would be in his trailer and I would come in. He'd be getting his makeup done, so he would just have. He wouldn't have a shirt on. He has tattoos everywhere. Like, it's crazy. I never expected him.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. He has tattoos and he has an amazing body.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

Like, for someone who's. My mom's. I mean, it's crazy.

[Marc Maron]

Well, it goes up and down with it. He'll. He's.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah, that's true. It's a fat. Anyway, so he. No, he was watching CNN in the trailer, and he's like, what the. This guy? Like, it was starting then.

[Marc Maron]

Well, people who live in New York and have had to put up with that guy forever.

[Jessica Kherson]

History with him. Sure.

[Marc Maron]

They've hated him since he was just an annoying putts.

[Jessica Kherson]

I've heard so many stories from people that have been in business with him.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. Like he didn't pay. He did this. They're suing. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I can't. You can't even wrap your brain around it. So how old are the other kids?

[Jessica Kherson]

So I have a nine and a half year old and I have twin almost six year olds. It's crazy. It's a lot. I. I'm in love with them. You live with them now? I got divorced, so I.

[Marc Maron]

Second time.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So.

[Jessica Kherson]

But the first. The first relationship wasn't legal. Cause it wasn't legal at the time. Legal marriage. So I've technically been married once and I live in an apartment 10 minutes from them and they live in the house that I lived in.

[Marc Maron]

Where.

[Jessica Kherson]

So they are on Long Island.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, okay.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So you have an apartment on Long Island. Mm. Like in one of the Jewish towns?

[Jessica Kherson]

No. I mean, there's Jews. We're all hiding, but. No, I'm joking. No, it's not in one of the Jewish. Cause there's some people might not know, but there's some towns that are really Jewish.

[Marc Maron]

But now they're like. They're not like what I grew up with. They're not like, you know, my mom, Jews.

[Jessica Kherson]

And they're also very religious. Some of those towns. Very.

[Marc Maron]

And isn't some of them Persian?

[Jessica Kherson]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

I'm fascinated with the Persian Jews. I don't know anything about them.

[Jessica Kherson]

I know nothing.

[Marc Maron]

But it's like. It was almost like. Were they always here?

[Jessica Kherson]

They were. I think so. No, they just came. Yeah. Aren't there a lot in la?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah. Beverly Hills, I heard. And you go to some store, like a coffee shop over there, and you're like, what the fuck is happening?

[Jessica Kherson]

I don't know what it is either.

[Marc Maron]

It's like, you know, it's very high level fashion money. But like, it's a thing.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

When I would. When I was a. A kid, it was just, you know, Japs, you know, just Jewish.

[Jessica Kherson]

Me too. Just a great guy. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Great neck. You know, like, whatever.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And she's like, hi, how are you? You know, like. And now it's like this.

[Jessica Kherson]

What are you getting for Cam? Where'd you get that trunk? I need to get Alex a trunk. And I didn't know where to go.

[Marc Maron]

What's the theme of your bar mitzvah?

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna hire a band for $400,000. I'll give you the reference. That is what I grew up with. Not 400,000?

[Marc Maron]

No, of course not.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. But I did grow up with that, too.

[Marc Maron]

I was bar mitzvah. Before themes.

[Jessica Kherson]

Me, too. Before themes. Yeah. There's so many themes.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

It's unbelievable. I've been to some. Oh, my God. It's like, are you kidding me?

[Marc Maron]

What?

[Jessica Kherson]

The money they put into these.

[Marc Maron]

Star Wars. Or like.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. Oh, my God. Everything.

[Marc Maron]

Or the. Or wicked. Who knows?

[Jessica Kherson]

They fly in on a brew.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

The stars.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah. To the pulpit. Here she comes with her hat.

[Jessica Kherson]

Wait. It's okay. You can do it. I just want my gifts.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, God. I'm trying to remember.

[Jessica Kherson]

Remember going to them in, like, the musical chairs, like, the boys and the girls, like, it was such a thing. It was all.

[Marc Maron]

I remember. It's like my bar mitzvah was like, I had a. For the. We did Friday night and Saturday morning.

[Jessica Kherson]

So do we.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. That was like. Now people do, like. Like a half hour with another kid.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah, right.

[Marc Maron]

I know.

[Jessica Kherson]

There's two other ones. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

There's three of them up there. It's like, what the fuck happened?

[Jessica Kherson]

There's 14 kids with this racking.

[Marc Maron]

How does this happen? They don't have time.

[Jessica Kherson]

I know. Same thing. And I did Friday night, Saturday morning, and then we did, like, a kids party. An adult party.

[Marc Maron]

That's right. You did the party at the synagogue.

[Jessica Kherson]

My parents were getting divorced, so they did not spend a lot on the parties. No, it was fine. I had parties. But it was like. The adult party was like, after the bar mitzvah. There were bagels, right?

[Marc Maron]

That's right. At the synagogue.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. The whole. Every synagogue smells like sturgeon.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And then there's the one Holocaust survivor who's putting things in her purse, and no one does anything. It's like. It's okay.

[Jessica Kherson]

Just in case they come again.

[Marc Maron]

We just had the one. It was so heavy. I.

[Jessica Kherson]

My grandmother would take rolls from every single. She had a lot of money. And even if I remember one time it had a bite out of it. There was a roll that had a bite out of it. And I'm like, yeah. She took. And it. Lipstick around it. She's like, I'll cut around it.

[Marc Maron]

Do you remember the place? Did you ever go to my. Fort Lauderdale?

[Jessica Kherson]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, do you remember Wolfies?

[Jessica Kherson]

Yes. I used to go. Both grandmothers, of course, lived in South Florida.

[Marc Maron]

You go to Wolfies. And then they could take the bread. It was like the big. The whole basket. Yeah. The basket of Danish and Rolfs. And they're like, you can just take them.

[Jessica Kherson]

If somewhere has good bread, every Jew will go, like, it's really a reason.

[Marc Maron]

You know what's amazing about the Jewish. I don't know what's down there anymore. I don't know if they've run them all out. But that whole culture of Jews in the restaurants is that I realized that, like, my buddy. My buddy, my mom's boyfriend, all a Jewish man wants when he gets to a certain age is to be able to walk into a restaurant and the guy at the restaurant goes, there he is. That's what their whole life is.

[Jessica Kherson]

That is so funny.

[Marc Maron]

John. How are you, John? We got the table you like and that's it. That's the big payoff.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. So how are you, my friend, today? Yeah, that is so funny. And they get there at 3 o'clock for dinner because it's cheaper.

[Marc Maron]

And the thing is, none of the restaurants are good.

[Jessica Kherson]

Oh, they're horrible.

[Marc Maron]

They're horrible.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. It's like. And they always get fish. My grandparents always got like, filet of Soul Amandine. And they shared it. They had a whole thing going on. Tupperware, the whole thing.

[Marc Maron]

It's. It's just a social thing that, like, you know, they all think they're like, this is the best one.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. What do you mean? They love me there?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, they love me there.

[Jessica Kherson]

My grandmother to wake me up at five in the morning and ask me what I want for dinner when I went to Florida. Where do you want to go for dinner? I'm like, what? She's like, do you want to. You want Italian or a Dinah? I'm like, I don't. I don't even know where I am right now. Just like. And then breakfast, she would just give me like half a grapefruit because I. I always had a little weight to lose, so she would feed me. Like, do you really think I'm not gonna get food somewhere else?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I could go eat anywhere. It's just so fun. Because, like, it digress. What? John, my. He, like, was a regular. I think the ihop.

[Jessica Kherson]

I love that he was a regular. It sounds like he's a calm. Like, he's.

[Marc Maron]

But that's. We. But that's what he did. He's like. He goes over there. They give me the thing. It's like. You mean the thing everyone else gets? No, I get a little different. It always has to be a little different. Yeah, just get the breakfast.

[Jessica Kherson]

It's like.

[Marc Maron]

But you know what? I like with the potatoes and then.

[Jessica Kherson]

No, they know me very well. They give me the hash browns.

[Marc Maron]

Not the French, but. But, you know, well done.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah, well done. Well, everything. Everything has to be well done. By the way, every omelet, every Jew eats a well done Hawks.

[Marc Maron]

Eggs and onions. But the onions have to be black.

[Jessica Kherson]

Who else would eat lox, eggs and onions?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, best, though.

[Jessica Kherson]

It's the best. We grew up on the same thing.

[Marc Maron]

Lox, eggs, onion. I remember the first time I had that. I was like, this is the best thing it is in the world.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. And well done onion. Yeah, we love well done.

[Marc Maron]

I remember one time I was so to the point where I'm traumatized by it. I worked at a. I worked at a Jewish deli in Boston. It was like, in Boston, Jewish are different. Like there is, you know, and I grew up in. With Jersey Jews, but, you know, I was in New Mexico. It doesn't matter. But I was an old Jewish man when I was 10, so. But I get a job when I. I think I. It was in the 80s summer when I was in college at this place, Gordon's Deli. And it was a real Jewish deli. Yeah, in Boston. But Boston Jews, it's a different thing. They have like five, four different kinds of rye bread.

[Jessica Kherson]

Oh, wow.

[Marc Maron]

It was very interesting because they had sissel rye, which was seeded.

[Jessica Kherson]

They had light rye.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, they had light rye, no seeds. They had pumpernickel.

[Jessica Kherson]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

And then they had dark rye, which was just a little darker than the light rye. So there was four. It was kind of crazy, but it was. It was the real deal. I mean, you know, they still had kishka. Who the fuck eats kishka?

[Jessica Kherson]

It is so disgusting.

[Marc Maron]

It's kind of. I remember the first time I tried it, I'm like, what is it even?

[Jessica Kherson]

I know it's. I can't even.

[Marc Maron]

It's like stuffing in an intestine.

[Jessica Kherson]

Oh, God. I know. I've tried all of that.

[Marc Maron]

So of course I ate all of it, but. So one time, a guy orders a lox, eggs and onions, and I'm making it, and we had this one pan that was an old cast iron pan that we had the cooked onions, right? And these onions were black. They were perfect. And there was just what I assume was enough left for a good leo, good lox, eggs and onions. So I just take. I just mix it all in there with the oil from the onions. I think this is beautiful, right? And I make that thing and they serve it and the guy brings it back Too many onions. I'm like, what the fuck? Well, how could you even tell me that?

[Jessica Kherson]

Because a lot of them just have to complain.

[Marc Maron]

I know, I know, but it was like, I had. I would. Oh, my God. I remember one time, like, I served something at the counter, and there was a guy, the cook, who used to make the briskets and the corned beef and the puddings and stuff.

[Jessica Kherson]

So good, right?

[Marc Maron]

Well, you know, some guy. I asked the guy who was eating at the counter, this old Jew, I go, like, how is it? He goes, it's good. You want to try some? And I took a bite off his plate.

[Jessica Kherson]

I've never heard that before if you work in a restaurant.

[Marc Maron]

I just was like, all right. So I took a bite, and the cook pulls me into the kitchen and said, what the hell are you doing? I've got a whole plate. I got a whole platter back here. You're eating off of their plates? The fuck is wrong with you?

[Jessica Kherson]

I can't believe Sonny.

[Marc Maron]

That was just that.

[Jessica Kherson]

Of course his name was Sonny. We had a Sunny's Bagels in my town growing up.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And then there was the owner. His name was Shelly.

[Jessica Kherson]

Shelly is such a Jew. People would not know that, but Shelly is such an old Jewish man. Or Shep.

[Marc Maron]

He was. Yeah, he was. He's the. He was this old guy, Shelly. He wasn't even that old, but he was obese, and he owned it with his wife, who he hated. And it was just a fucking nightmare.

[Jessica Kherson]

This sounds like a sitcom.

[Marc Maron]

And there was a Chinese place next door.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So Shelly would sit in his fucking deli in the corner booth with a plate full of boneless spareribs from the Chinese place and just shoveling them into his mouth.

[Jessica Kherson]

I can picture this entire thing.

[Marc Maron]

My God. It's crazy, but, like, there were a lot of guys. Old guys. Like, there was, like, old Jewish cops. There was a Jewish, like, you know, gangsters would come in. And I was like, oh, we're doing that, too now. You know, but we've always been doing that. Then there was one guy, they used to come from the hospital.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Like, they'd have the fucking thing on the tape. You know, they have the fucking tape from the blood test.

[Jessica Kherson]

They're about to die. They're about to die, and they need pastrami.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. They're like, I should.

[Jessica Kherson]

I shouldn't.

[Marc Maron]

But, yeah, give me that. What do you got?

[Jessica Kherson]

Give me a potato pan.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

[Jessica Kherson]

There's nothing better than a potato. I mean, a good one with.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, no, it's the best.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Do you make them?

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah, but they take a long time to make.

[Marc Maron]

Do they?

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah, you put on the whole thing.

[Marc Maron]

And then you got. You put matzo meal.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. And you cook the onions.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah. I used to make. I used to. I made kashavarnishkas really. With schmaltz once. Really old school.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah, Sounds great.

[Marc Maron]

It was great. But you got to figure out how to get schmaltz. You gotta cook a chicken, right. And then you gotta get the. Because if you cook the onions and schmaltz, it's like a whole fucking other thing.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And then. Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

Do you know, the first time I was in my 20s, I made matzo ball soup. I called my mother. I don't know what's happening, but it tastes like water. It's literally. There's no taste.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

She goes, what did you put in it? And I said, breasts of chicken. She goes, jessica, you have to put a chicken. I literally cut up breasts of chicken.

[Marc Maron]

And put it in the chicken to make the broth.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, no, I got real hung up with the soup. You got to get bones.

[Jessica Kherson]

I know.

[Marc Maron]

I was saving bones for a while and to get it with flavor. My fucking grandmother, who I love, Goldie, she would just put the instant, you know.

[Jessica Kherson]

Really?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. She bulk it up. She made pretty good.

[Jessica Kherson]

I love the name Goldie.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, she. She made.

[Jessica Kherson]

My great grandmother's name was Sadie. I can. Eda were my great. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I have Jack. Jacob. That's Jacob. Jack, Goldie. And then Eleanor and Ben.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. These are my grandparents were Beatrice and Irving. That's my mom's parents name.

[Marc Maron]

Well, you used to. Then there was a woman who I think for my entire childhood, when I go to my grandmother's house for whatever parties, there was a woman that seemed to be like 100 years old and she would just sit. She would be the only one that would sit in the plastic covered furniture.

[Jessica Kherson]

In the living room.

[Marc Maron]

And I'd be like, who's that? And she said, that's Tanta.

[Jessica Kherson]

Tanta?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, Tanta Shandle. And it was my grandmother's aunt Tanta. Yeah. Tanta didn't speak English. Really?

[Jessica Kherson]

What does she speak? Yiddish, Polish?

[Marc Maron]

A little bit. But I don't remember ever having a conversation with her.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah, Some of them don't want to talk to you.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

They're just like done.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There was. And then my grandfather played cards with these guys.

[Jessica Kherson]

Oh, they all played my grand Mahjong. My grandmother played Mahjong every day.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. They had the mahjong there. The wives played the mahjong, and then the guys would play the. Joe Susskind.

[Jessica Kherson]

Joe's a good player.

[Marc Maron]

Very good player.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. My grandparents belonged to a club, you know, a golf club. Growing up, I hated going there. I used to say. I used to, like, go in the kitchen and be nice to the staff. I felt bad for every single person that worked there. And there was a room where women were allowed to go in. You could not step foot in the room if you were. This was when I was a kid. If you were a woman and if you got divorced, the woman couldn't be a member anymore.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Oh, really?

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

That's crazy.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yep.

[Marc Maron]

Joe Margolis. Wait, wait, wait. I got more.

[Jessica Kherson]

I have good ones, too.

[Marc Maron]

Gerson Eisenberg.

[Jessica Kherson]

Gershon.

[Marc Maron]

They call him Gert.

[Jessica Kherson]

Julie Lahoff. That's my uncle's name. My true. Yeah. And Seymour. Julie and Julie and Seymour were my grandmother's brothers.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, Sylvia. You. Sylvia. That's your go to.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah, my dad. My grandfather. My great grandfather was Ike Lerhoff.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, that's good.

[Jessica Kherson]

Ike.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, Ike's good. Ike's good.

[Jessica Kherson]

Ike's a great name.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I like it. A lot of those names just don't. Yeah. Sandy, like dyke Sandy.

[Jessica Kherson]

Sandy's a great name for a Jewish guy, too.

[Marc Maron]

Sandy was great. Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

These are like, names that are like. I guess they had female kind of names. It's interesting.

[Marc Maron]

Do you remember when you met your first Ari, and you're like, what the fuck is that?

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah, that was like the next generation. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Those are like, oh, this is an Israel thing.

[Jessica Kherson]

It always felt like an Israel thing when I met someone like Ahuva.

[Marc Maron]

My brother's kids are all Jewish names.

[Jessica Kherson]

Really?

[Marc Maron]

But they're like biblical. Matana.

[Jessica Kherson]

Oh, is he. Is he very religious?

[Marc Maron]

No, I think he's gone. Had his moments where he was.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah, he had to.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, Jewish. They got Matana, Eden and Shai.

[Jessica Kherson]

Oh, okay.

[Marc Maron]

They're all Jewish. Jewishy.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah, they are.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. So you see your kids all the time.

[Jessica Kherson]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm. That's why I never.

[Marc Maron]

And you get along with Danielle?

[Jessica Kherson]

Yes, we do. We. We do. I mean, listen, it took a minute. Like, it's very hard. I know you went through. It's like. Right. It's very, very difficult when you have kids. And I really wanted to keep everything together because I came from parents who had a really bad divorce and they ended up getting along and they were fine with each other for years, and really, I was lucky. But the thought of leaving the house for me, because when my dad left, it was horrific for me.

[Marc Maron]

How old were you?

[Jessica Kherson]

Oh, bad age. I was 12 when they got separated and 13 when they got divorced. But they were not happy forever. I mean, like, they were not happy. So I killed. It killed me. It killed me to leave my kids.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

I had a little bit of. And this is just being completely honest. They have two moms, and now they have one mom moving out. Like, I just felt I couldn't not project my stuff onto them. I had to work on that a lot.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

Because it really. It wasn't true. Like, they're okay.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

But I thought I was damaging them forever.

[Marc Maron]

Right. I think it's a little different too, with the. With a certain amount of self awareness. I think our parents. Generations didn't give a fuck. And they did. But they cared about themselves more.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah, they did. So narcissistic.

[Marc Maron]

Right, Right. If they go away, they come back and they want to make sure you like them.

[Jessica Kherson]

That's so true, Mark.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Not that you felt safe.

[Jessica Kherson]

I mean, I talk about that all the time.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

That's all. Like, my dad with my kids would always be like, they're not laughing at me. They're not excited to see me. I'm like. Cause you are scary with a toupee. And you yell like. You know, he was always concerned about how much they loved him or wanted to be around him. I'm like, they're two.

[Marc Maron]

It's crazy. My father doesn't even really have a relationship. My brother's kids.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah, it's weird. I've.

[Marc Maron]

Because my brother didn't really want it. And one time it was like, I've done this on stage. The selfishness.

[Jessica Kherson]

I know.

[Marc Maron]

Of that generation. It was. I mean, I can't generalize, but I can't even generalize it with Jews. I mean, some people had. Okay, of course.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. And my friends did.

[Marc Maron]

There is a type that create people like us.

[Jessica Kherson]

You know, my mom was involved in estate. We've talked about this before the Forum.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, well, that's. My mom was not. I think they were. I don't know. They. I think they were both kind of. I don't know. They're very, very vain. My mom was painting and whatever. They were never really.

[Jessica Kherson]

My mom's an art therapist. When you said she's a painter, I was like, that's interesting.

[Marc Maron]

But. But my dad. Wait, it was for one of my brother's kids, Bar mitzvahs. And. Yeah, my. My parents were divorced, but that was later, but I had to go to get my dad. Right. So there was going to be some sort of lunch or something for the kid, and I go over to my dad's hotel, and he goes, what are we doing? And I'm like, I guess we're going to go to the thing with the. Don't you want to go see the kid? He's like, yeah. You know, some people get something out of that. I don't get anything out of that. Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

That's amazing, isn't it?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah. I'm like, all right, what do you want to do? He goes, you remember those mustard slacks? I used to have musters. Yeah. So. So we went to the mall to try to find pants.

[Jessica Kherson]

Incredible, right?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was very telling.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. It's not easy because Danielle, first of all, my parents were older. She is nine years younger than me. Her parents were very involved. And that's part of the reason why. No, that's part of the reason why I stayed on Long island because I'm on the road a lot, and she, you know, her family's around.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, good.

[Jessica Kherson]

So it's important they help.

[Marc Maron]

That's great.

[Jessica Kherson]

They're great. They're great.

[Marc Maron]

I don't think I would have survived without my grandmother.

[Jessica Kherson]

Right, right. They're so helpful, and I love them.

[Marc Maron]

Goldie saved my life.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Because she. I think she genuinely loved me unconditionally.

[Jessica Kherson]

Right. I didn't think anyone did when I was growing up. I really felt that way. Yeah. Yeah. So it's better now. And I see them all the time. And every time I'm home, I don't. Like, I used to go into the city and do spots all the time. I don't. I just spend time with my kids.

[Marc Maron]

Well, that's good.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I mean, I think about it all the time. Like, even as I get older, you know, that these. The repercussions of, you know, whatever parenting we got, you just. You can't get out from under it.

[Jessica Kherson]

You can't. Well, I don't. I always say I don't think it never goes away.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. But it's like, I'm not angry at them.

[Jessica Kherson]

I'm not either, but the feeling that I have internally, like, to my bones, especially with my mom, because she wasn't around a lot when I was growing up. There's really no way of, like, filling that hole. It's real. When you grow up without a mom present, it's hard. It's constant work. It's not something I think about every day. But, like, I was around her in Florida, like, two weeks ago.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. And stuff came up for me, and I'm. Look at me. I'm older, like. But I'm not angry at all.

[Marc Maron]

Well, that's what I don't. Like when people say, when are you not gonna be angry at your parents? I'm not, but I'm still dealing.

[Jessica Kherson]

You're traumatized by certain things.

[Marc Maron]

I was in Florida. This was, like, in the last decade.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And it was amazing. Like, I'm having one of these conversations or whatever they are, with my mother. And my mother was very sexual. So I literally used to bring girlfriends to. To Thanksgiving just to run interference. Oh, she's coming at me with the arms. You know, like.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know, the weird touching. So. But, you know, Pretty Way Pretty Woman. So we're sitting there. I'm like, I used to cook Thanksgiving dinner for everybody. And I'm, like, prepping. I'm cutting carrots or something. My mother's sitting there with the paper or whatever, and just out of nowhere she goes, you know, Mark, when you were a baby, I don't think I knew how to love you.

[Jessica Kherson]

That is amazing.

[Marc Maron]

In passing. And I'm like, well, that's it then. Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

That's the answer. I mean, thank you. I feel validated.

[Marc Maron]

Go back to my therapist and be like, we're done. I got it.

[Jessica Kherson]

That is so. See, my mom. My mom. I talk about. My mom always did therapy with me.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

Which is not good.

[Marc Maron]

No.

[Jessica Kherson]

So she would be like, you seem angry. Draw a picture of your feelings.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

And I'll analyze it. But you're. I'm like, you're the one.

[Marc Maron]

I'm.

[Jessica Kherson]

I said, will you sit still? But it's like. It's not great, because I never felt like I could just process my feelings. Like, she tried to fix it. I know.

[Marc Maron]

Well, that's also. It's that fucking thing. Like, they were so needy.

[Jessica Kherson]

They were so. They needed so much attention, and they needed. And it's like. Yeah. It was never just about me, ever. I'm in a relationship now where someone's, like, very, like, giving and cares about my feelings. And I'm like, oh, my God. This is. It was very uncomfortable at times.

[Marc Maron]

I don't know how you dealt with it.

[Jessica Kherson]

I didn't trust it.

[Marc Maron]

No. I don't trust it at all.

[Jessica Kherson]

I know, but you learned. If you constantly communicated about it, which I don't like doing sometimes. But talk about your fears, it really helps.

[Marc Maron]

But how do you deal with the fact that, sadly, that Being loved in a genuine way is profoundly uncomfortable.

[Jessica Kherson]

It's very uncomfortable. But I think I got to the point because my. My ex loved me. It's just we were not right for each other, and it just got worse and worse. And I. You know, there was things that happened, but I am older now, and I'm thinking, like, I'm done. Like, I need to be treated well. I deserve to be treated like, you know, like the best. I deserve that. I've been through enough hell like I know you have. In relationships. I'd rather be alone.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

The rest of my life. And my biggest thing was finding someone who's kind.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

And who will work on themselves. Those were the two. Everything else is a. Is a plus, is an add on.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. But when it's so. It's very hard to get around. When they're kind.

[Jessica Kherson]

I think you have to be ready for it.

[Marc Maron]

No, I know. But when they're kind and then there's parties, like, you're with me.

[Jessica Kherson]

Right. I have that sometimes.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah. What do you want?

[Jessica Kherson]

Like, this is not gonna end. This is gonna end someday. You're gonna switch. You're gonna turn.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. I can't trust you. It's. It's all. I think, also watching someone with other people.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

Because she has kids, too.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

So watching how she is with her kids, that's a big thing.

[Marc Maron]

And also, like, the priorities become different, you know, certain things. Relax. You know, you don't give a. About certain things as much as you used to. And you realize, I imagine that companionship and.

[Jessica Kherson]

And it is. Companionship. Friendship.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah. That it comes down to that.

[Jessica Kherson]

And it's hard to meet people. Like, where do you even meet people? Where do you meet people?

[Marc Maron]

They come up to me.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. I had a feeling. I mean, you're so adorable. You are. And you're so honest. I was thinking about it before for a second when you were talking, like, about your mom being sexual. Like, I just. I'm always impressed at how deep you get, like, how you look at this stuff. And you're so honest.

[Marc Maron]

It's so funny, though.

[Jessica Kherson]

It's really beautiful.

[Marc Maron]

I talk about it here, you know, and I don't. I don't always, always think about it. And certain things I knew were odd. You know, I know there's elements of my personality that I don't fall. I'm not easy to put into a box. You know, Some people, like, he's cranky Jew. It's like, I'm not really. But if that's what the part you want to see.

[Jessica Kherson]

I know.

[Marc Maron]

And that's what you can connect to. That's fine, you know, but my issues are very weirdly specific and, you know, the things I like and how I was brought up and. Because when you're. You have a vacuum at your center of self, you know, you have a different kind of life because you spend most of your life trying to be something and liking things that other people like.

[Jessica Kherson]

Right, Right.

[Marc Maron]

So you get. I get all these different facets of my personality. Like, we do this thing where they ask me questions of fans and someone goes, what are your favorite? You know, sort of deep cut Lynyrd Skynyrd songs. I'm like, oh, I've got a lot of them.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Like, how did I get. That was. Because I wanted to be like, you know, a regular guy. And, like, so. But the mom thing, like, I don't even. I think I don't even. Like, I know my dad and his insanity and the depression and the, you know, the narcissism and all that, but I think that my mother is really at the core of it, and I don't even want to touch it.

[Jessica Kherson]

I know. I always, like, I had. My dad was not. Was great. He was the funniest person I knew. But he was verbally abusive. Very. But he was more like. You see it, like, exactly what you're saying? Like, you just know he has a temper.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

He's charming.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

He's inappropriate at times. He's a great businessman. But with my mom, it's so deep. Yeah, I know. Same thing.

[Marc Maron]

But they were the diminishers.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Like, you know, the yelling, the emotional abuse that's annihilating. But my mom was cutting.

[Jessica Kherson]

I know. I know. It's very underlying. It's very. And it's very. It's. For me, it's so intense. Cause it's Mom, Mom. Like, it's someone who gave birth to you. There's such a connection, you know, it's. It. It's different.

[Marc Maron]

It's just so weird. I used to do a bit about, you know, like, how people in my age had living parents, and they're. They're like, you know, I talk to my mother all the time, and I'm like, why? You know, like, well, I ask her for advice. I'm like, oh, my God.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I would never ask my mother for anything.

[Jessica Kherson]

Is it just you and your brother?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

Oh, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

So he has a similar thing. Definitely. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But he's like. He's. He's fought it like, yeah, I gave up something, you know, he. He was like, I'm going to be different. I'm going to do it different. Yeah, I'm not, you know, but he. He's also one of those guys that. He's a searcher. I'm not really a searcher. Like that.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Spiritual, psychological.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah, me either.

[Marc Maron]

He does all the things. My poor brother, when he was like, a kid. Do you remember Leo Buscalia?

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

The. The hugging. Psychotherapy.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So my brother was like, you know, maybe 12, and somehow he got hold of a Leo Buscali book and the poor kid was just running around hugging everybody.

[Jessica Kherson]

Oh, that's sweet. I mean, that's sad, but it's.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. So he's like. From early on, he's wanted to resolve, you know, this thing to get to fix it.

[Jessica Kherson]

Me too. I stopped. I stopped a while ago because I'm like. I accepted that people are who they are, especially our parents because they're older. It's like where they all of a sudden change. Change now.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

I mean, it is what it is.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Now my dad's losing his mind and, like, he's all, you know, soft and, you know, kind of like, you know.

[Jessica Kherson]

That's so interesting.

[Marc Maron]

Well, it's just. But the thing that I identify more than anything else is that they. They weren't really capable of any sort of selfless love, but they were filled with worry and panic.

[Jessica Kherson]

Like, that was the love you thought.

[Marc Maron]

That's right.

[Jessica Kherson]

I mean, you thought audience.

[Marc Maron]

And it was all about them. Like, I had this realization.

[Jessica Kherson]

My dad.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, mine too. I had this realization that they. They're sort of like, make sure you call if you're going to be late.

[Jessica Kherson]

But not because they care that you're going to. Something happen.

[Marc Maron]

They. They're just like, how would I feel if something happened to you?

[Jessica Kherson]

Right, right, right. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

It would make my life terrible if you.

[Jessica Kherson]

Something was there that my dad could not handle when we were sick. That's why I said he couldn't handle when we cried. Like, anytime you were vulnerable, he'd be like, great, you have a headache. This is all I fucking need. Business is bad. I gotta fucking work on what was. You're probably sick. Something's gonna happen. Like, it was so dramatic. It sounds like I'm joking, but it was so dramatic. And it was all about him and how it affected his day.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. My dad was a doctor and it was just the worst. You know, it would be the other way. My mother can't handle sickness.

[Jessica Kherson]

Really. See, that's It's a mom. Like, that's not.

[Marc Maron]

That's my mom. Just like, if you're sick, she's sort of like, well, maybe you could live at someone else's house for, you know.

[Jessica Kherson]

Well, maybe if you just killed yourself, you wouldn't be sick.

[Marc Maron]

Go outside. But.

[Jessica Kherson]

Go add fresh air.

[Marc Maron]

But then my dad was a doctor, so, like, you know, I. I swear to God. And I tell this story sometimes, like, because doctors, they overcompensate.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And they know other doctors. I swear to God. When we move from Jersey, or we. I. I think we were in Alaska. My dad was in service. We came to New Mexico, and we had been there maybe a month or something, and I had, like, terrible stomach pains.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And my dad knew, like, you know, one doctor because he'd only been there a little while, this guy named Dr. Chester. And I only say this because I want the picture to be thorough. This guy was this heavyset black man with, like, you know, these big sideburns. Right. So I'm complaining about these horrible gas pains or these pains in my stomach. And my dad's like, I'll call Chester. He'll come over the house. So now I got, you know, my dad, they. They do. I. I think this might be. It's not out and out abuse, but this guy Chester does a rectal exam on me.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. How old were you?

[Marc Maron]

I must have been 10.

[Jessica Kherson]

Oh, my God.

[Marc Maron]

In the bathroom of our house that we just moved into while my dad is standing there.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. This is traumatizing. It's very traumatizing.

[Marc Maron]

And then he decides that I have appendicitis, and within a week, I'm in the hospital. And that's when you move there? Yeah. My dad doesn't know. He takes my appendix out. Doesn't do it right. The scar is not correct. And time will tell that this guy might not have been, like, the best.

[Jessica Kherson]

Doctor in the world, but he wasn't even a doctor. Can you imagine? He was the principal.

[Marc Maron]

But the truth is, I probably just had gas.

[Jessica Kherson]

Oh, my God. This is so.

[Marc Maron]

But the thing that, I guess where this came from with the point was when you have a doctor in the house, you want to get attention from them. So I was hypochondriac.

[Jessica Kherson]

I understand.

[Marc Maron]

But you never know. You're going to end up at their friend's house getting a proctological exam.

[Jessica Kherson]

At a vet.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, at a vet. Like, I could go to any doctor, and I would go. I would go, like, I think I got.

[Jessica Kherson]

That's very traumatizing I did it with my mom with emotional stuff. Because if I talk to her about, you know, having something wrong or I was in trauma or something's happening, that's when I got her attention. Because she would want. Do therapy with me and.

[Marc Maron]

Exactly.

[Jessica Kherson]

Same exact thing.

[Marc Maron]

Right. And that was the only way you could get the focus.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. Negative attention. Well, they gave me attention for weight stuff and. And eating, so I blew up.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

When I was younger. Yeah. Because it. It's the only way I can get up.

[Marc Maron]

You talked about that in the special. The fat camp thing. Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

I went to fat camp.

[Marc Maron]

My mom was anorexic and she always thought I was fat. There was nothing. Where are the husky. Where's the husky section?

[Jessica Kherson]

I do that in my act now. I can't believe you just said the husky section. My grandmother. Where's the section for the heavy children in Bloomingdale's? Should we go to get a fitted sheet? She's huge.

[Marc Maron]

Where's the husky?

[Jessica Kherson]

They were so aggressive and loud and inappropriate and boundaryless. That whole generation. Like, oh, my God.

[Marc Maron]

My mom wasn't really loud, but she was like. She picked her mama. She was pretty funny.

[Jessica Kherson]

So she thought you were heavy? Yes, because there's Jewish heavy. It's ten pounds or something.

[Marc Maron]

That's right.

[Jessica Kherson]

That means you're enormous.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, no. And she would, like. She would, like, you know, when. When I go see her and she'd hug me and she'd pinch my thigh.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Touching with the fat.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. She. There was a. Sounds like there was a lot of physical. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Deepest issues are this. The body.

[Jessica Kherson]

It's amazing. You take care of yourself.

[Marc Maron]

How am I not right now? I'm like. I haven't been to the gym in three days. And I'm like, I don't deserve to live.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. But, Mark, you could have gone the other way. I mean, you could have really not taken care of yourself. And you always. It seems to me since I've known.

[Marc Maron]

You, you always have. I'm pretty compulsive about it.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I think we've achieved a lot during this session.

[Jessica Kherson]

Me, too. I feel much better.

[Marc Maron]

What are you doing for anxiety?

[Jessica Kherson]

I don't do enough, but I do. Of course. I'm in therapy.

[Marc Maron]

No magic.

[Jessica Kherson]

And I'm sober. No, I do. I am medicated, but on a small amount. But I need to be.

[Marc Maron]

I just. I just started one.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I have to for the first time in my life.

[Jessica Kherson]

Really?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

Wow. How is it?

[Marc Maron]

I mean, I did. I did Prozac years ago. For a month or two. But, no, this is like. I got tired of the. The guy said I have obsessional anxiety.

[Jessica Kherson]

That's how I am. And I know I keep saying where we're very similar.

[Marc Maron]

I have the catastrophic thinking, and then I just. I spend the day with it.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. Yeah. I was like that before. I was on the current day. Exact same thing. Now I'm not. I'm on. What's it called? Tessinflaxine, which is. Oh, my God. You know, I even know what I'm on.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I'm trying.

[Jessica Kherson]

I take Tresinone at night, which is not addictive to help me sleep.

[Marc Maron]

I tried. I'm on. I'm trying the busporin.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah, I've done that. It's good.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. Cause I. It's not. It's not.

[Marc Maron]

It's not like a total brain number.

[Jessica Kherson]

It's not. No Prozac. When I did Prozac when I was in college, I didn't feel a thing. I'm not even kidding. I was like.

[Marc Maron]

It's like. It's like a ghost. Everything becomes a phantom limb.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. I did not. I didn't cry. I didn't laugh a lot.

[Marc Maron]

Your brain knows you're supposed to be, but it's just sort of like. I guess. I don't know.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I'm.

[Jessica Kherson]

What I'm on. I feel my emotions. I cry, can laugh.

[Marc Maron]

How long you've been sober now?

[Jessica Kherson]

I've been sober four and a half years back. I relapsed during COVID Oh, really?

[Marc Maron]

How was that? Fun?

[Jessica Kherson]

No, it was never fun. I know you've never relapsed, but that was not my first relapse. And it's just a nightmare.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

I tell people. Cause I'm like, don't do it. There was no. First of all, I did not do it to get high. I did it to knock myself out. Meaning I just. I took. I smoked, like, tons of pot and took Ambien.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Oh, really?

[Jessica Kherson]

That's the only thing I. Not. Not the only thing, but. Meaning I took a ton of Ambien, and I just wanted to knock myself out.

[Marc Maron]

Because you were so stressed out.

[Jessica Kherson]

I was miserable. I was very upset about my career. Like, with COVID I was not happy in my relationship, and I stuck home, not on the road. And then my dad passed away during COVID so I was done.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I. It's. Well, it's. It's interesting that with the awareness you had, that the relapse had intention, you weren't lying to yourself. You weren't like, I can do it. You're like, no, I want to do this to do. Get this effect.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You weren't like, you know, I can control it or anything.

[Jessica Kherson]

No, I. I know. I. And there's never been a time when I'm like, I can smoke a little. That was a long time ago. I'm like, I love when people are like, why can't you smoke a little pot? I'm like, because I'll end up eating out of a garbage and, like, fucking every friend when they don't even want me to. Like, I'm out of my mind. I'm a complete animal addict.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kherson]

I can't just have a hit of pot.

[Marc Maron]

I know, I know, I know. Like, well, now I'm on these nicotine things. I say it on stage. I'm like, look, I've been sober a long time, and you just need a little something.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah, of course.

[Marc Maron]

You just need a little something to keep the big empty away.

[Jessica Kherson]

I know, that's. I. Mom's inappropriateness. I need a pouch.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, just keep. She's coming at me.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, the vacuum. So what are you promoting?

[Jessica Kherson]

I love that you just said that. I have a special on Animal Planet called Moo that you can't get unless.

[Marc Maron]

You have the premium.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Now, the special's so funny.

[Jessica Kherson]

It's called I'm the Man, and it's on Hulu. It's coming out April 25th, and I'm really proud of it. Like, I really had to watch it.

[Marc Maron]

Oh.

[Jessica Kherson]

That's how he was watching myself.

[Marc Maron]

We were gonna talk about that. Yeah, but you were great, though, how you felt all right about it. It's interesting when you finally do it, you're like, oh, that's me.

[Jessica Kherson]

I did. Because of the way that we edited it for a long time and, like, just. It's fast moving. People don't need to think a lot. I'm just. I do a lot of characters. I appeal, which I've always been conscious of, to straight men. Meaning, like, it's not like a female comic special.

[Marc Maron]

You're, like, old school, like, you know, pounder.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah, that's exactly how I feel.

[Marc Maron]

Good. You know, a lot of good dirty jokes, a lot of good personal jokes.

[Jessica Kherson]

A little dirty. The other. This one's dirty the, you know, like, half of it. But the last one I did is not at all. And the next one won't be. It's just for some reason, this one.

[Marc Maron]

You gotta get it out.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yeah. I felt like I wanted to.

[Marc Maron]

What do you mean? The Next one I'm working on material.

[Jessica Kherson]

Meaning like whatever I put out.

[Marc Maron]

How's it different?

[Jessica Kherson]

It's really not about sex or it's more like stuff that everyone goes through kind of thing, you know, like going to weddings. Oh, okay.

[Marc Maron]

So it's about my kids experiences that people have in common, but it's you doing it.

[Jessica Kherson]

Yes. It's about having kids and different funny things that I'm experiencing. It's more. Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Oh good. Well, I thought it was great. And I always like talking to you.

[Jessica Kherson]

I love talking to you. You're amazing.

[Marc Maron]

Nice to see you.

[Jessica Kherson]

You too.

[Marc Maron]

There you go. Jessica's Special I'm the Man is on Hulu. It's streaming starting tomorrow. Yeah, hang, hang out, hang out, Hang out for a minute folks. Peloton has what you need to achieve your fitness goals. No matter why you got started. For me, I always give myself a little push when I need to improve my overall health. For you, maybe it's supporting your weight goals or if you need to train for your first 5k race. Whatever the reason, Peloton has a variety of challenging classes that you can do anywhere with Peloton's All Access membership. You can work out where you need to at home, outdoors, or at the gym, all with the Peloton app. Find your push Find your power with [e-mail] People, we love LA. And I'm saying we because I already love it. And I know that when you visit here, you'll love it too. Whether you're looking for the best taco trucks or a standout Michelin star restaurant, la's got you covered. I just went down to Joy on York in my old neighborhood of Highland park, which I love. For the authentic Taiwanese food, you can go to Bodmash up on Fairfax across from Cantor's kind of hot rotted Indian food, or go to Canters. I actually go now for a vegan Reuben. And of course LA is known for entertainment, but this place is also a world class hub of art, music, museums and live theater. Check out the European art collection at the Getty center, go to hear the LA Philharmonic at the Walt Disney Concert hall. And you can also come here and do all those LA things you've heard about. Go to Universal Studios, check out the Griffith Park Observatory, see the view from Mulholland Drive, check out the Hollywood sign. You can't pass up all the classic LA stuff. Find more ways to love Los Angeles at discoverla.com folks. We posted a new bonus episode this week covering a bunch of things. My upcoming episode with David Cronenberg, my talk with Mike Birbiglia, and my mouth, which has gotten me into trouble my whole life. The difference between my engagement around this stuff and around speaking my mind, that. That I is part of me and it is something I do and it is important. But there is another operative part of me of, like, you know, oh, man, you know, now I've caused all this trouble for myself. I've caused other people trouble, and, you know, now I have to sit with that or try. I've gotten better at that because you got to do some things that are going to come back at you in the form of attacks or trolling or judgment. And it's just life. But I'm very aware of the decision making around doing it. Well. One of the things that I always take to heart, and I remember hearing this from one of Letterman's producers, that Letterman told the producers of the show, your job is to protect me from myself. Yeah. And I've always taken that to heart. Like, and I don't mean that from the sense of, like, I've got to censor you. I do. Obviously do not. Because, like, we, you know, have a pretty connected relationship. It's literally protecting me from myself. There's a. It's not censoring. But that's why, like, you know, when I think about doing things, I'm like, gotta run this by the brain. That bonus episode is available for full Marin subscribers. To sign up for the full Marin and get bonus episodes twice a week, go to the link in the episode description or go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF Plus. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast. Here's some Some guitar feels, Sa Boomer Lives Monkey and La Fonda Cat Angels everywhere.