Episode 1645 - Peter Wolf

Summary

WTF with Marc Maron Podcast: Episode 1645 - Peter Wolf

Release Date: May 22, 2025
Guest: Peter Wolf, Singer-Songwriter and Former Frontman of the J. Giles Band
Book Discussed: Waiting on the Moon

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1. Introduction to Peter Wolf and His Memoir

In Episode 1645 of WTF with Marc Maron, host Marc Maron welcomes Peter Wolf, the renowned singer-songwriter and former frontman of the J. Giles Band. Peter discusses his latest literary endeavor, Waiting on the Moon, a memoir that transcends traditional autobiographies by weaving together a series of essays and short stories about the influential figures he has encountered throughout his life.

Peter Wolf [14:39]: "This book reads like a fast train. You'll get a glimpse of everyone passing by through the window."

2. The Genesis of Waiting on the Moon

Peter delves into the inspiration behind his memoir, highlighting how his storytelling prowess in dressing rooms and parties led him to pen down his experiences. Influenced by works like Truman Capote's Dogs Bark and Christopher Isherwood's Berlin Stories, Peter aimed to create a non-chronological collection of vignettes that capture fleeting yet impactful moments with various luminaries.

Peter Wolf [16:04]: "I decided to write a book of basically short stories of the people that I admired, the people I was privileged to get to meet."

3. Early Life and Musical Inspirations

Peter recounts his formative years, describing his deep-rooted connection to music and the arts. Growing up in a musically inclined family, with a father who was a baritone and a passion for painting, Peter's early exposure to show business and iconic venues like the Apollo Theater and Club 47 in Boston profoundly shaped his artistic trajectory.

Peter Wolf [35:13]: "I ended up living with my Russian Jewish grandmother, who was from Odessa. She was a great singer, songwriter, and she was in the Yiddish theater in New York."

4. Encounters with Legendary Musicians

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to Peter's interactions with legendary musicians such as Muddy Waters, Bob Dylan, and John Lee Hooker. He shares heartfelt anecdotes, including organizing Muddy Waters' surprise birthday party amidst the turmoil of Martin Luther King Jr.'s assassination and his early, albeit unconventional, attempts to connect with Bob Dylan.

Peter Wolf [62:10]: "Muddy was in the middle of the band, and I tell Otis Band's wife, and she starts screaming, 'You gotta tell Muddy.' And Muddy says, 'Young people, listen to me. Something terrible has happened.'"

Peter Wolf [52:50]: "I was standing right next to him, he was talking to this guy, so I take his glass of wine and I drink it. He had no idea I was there."

5. The Dynamics of the J. Giles Band

Peter provides an in-depth look into the formation and eventual fragmentation of the J. Giles Band. He discusses the creative tensions between band members, particularly focusing on the divergence in musical directions that led to the band's split. This segment offers a candid glimpse into the challenges of maintaining creative harmony within a successful group.

Peter Wolf [30:05]: "When the key members have a crack, it's like a crack in a marriage. The band members are caught in between, just like family members in a family crisis."

6. Personal Anecdotes and Life Lessons

Throughout the conversation, Peter shares personal stories that illustrate his life's serendipitous nature. One such tale involves a childhood encounter with Marilyn Monroe in a movie theater, a moment that underscores the unexpected intersections between his life and the broader tapestry of American culture.

Peter Wolf [33:55]: "We were sitting in this theater... She just got married to Arthur Miller. And then we were both locked together, our heads were locked together."

7. Reflections on Creativity and Legacy

As the episode winds down, Peter reflects on his enduring passion for music and the arts, emphasizing the importance of authentic connections and the legacy one leaves behind. He speaks fondly of his friendships with Van Morrison and other contemporaries, highlighting the mutual respect and admiration that have sustained these relationships over the years.

Peter Wolf [68:38]: "John Lee Hooker... one of the sweetest, most gentle and most sensitive people you can meet."

8. Conclusion and Recommendations

Marc Maron and Peter Wolf conclude their conversation by highlighting the depth and breadth of Peter's memoir. They encourage listeners to explore Waiting on the Moon to gain a deeper understanding of the intricate web of relationships that have influenced Peter's musical journey.

Marc Maron [84:16]: "I would read the book. It's called Waiting on the Moon. It's available now."

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Notable Quotes

• Peter Wolf [14:39]: "This book reads like a fast train. You'll get a glimpse of everyone passing by through the window."

• Peter Wolf [30:05]: "When the key members have a crack, it's like a crack in a marriage."

• Peter Wolf [33:55]: "We were sitting in this theater... She just got married to Arthur Miller. And then we were both locked together."

• Peter Wolf [68:38]: "John Lee Hooker... one of the sweetest, most gentle and most sensitive people you can meet."

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Final Thoughts

Episode 1645 offers listeners an intimate portrayal of Peter Wolf's life, enriched by his interactions with some of the most influential figures in music and the arts. Through Waiting on the Moon, Peter Wolf not only chronicles his personal journey but also paints a broader picture of the cultural landscape that shaped him. This episode is a must-listen for enthusiasts of music history, memoirs, and compelling storytelling.

Transcript

[Peter Wolf]

Hey, folks, I've been a cat dad for a long time. Longer than I've been doing this show, in fact. And us cat dads, we don't always get a lot of attention. Maybe it's because people think we're just biding our time until we get a dog. But we're cat dads, and we're proud of it. And one way we get big attention from our cats is when we've got treats for them. That's why temptations, America's number one cat treat brand, is calling 2025 the year of the cat dad. They're celebrating all the guys who are loved by their furry companions, especially when they've got a pocket full of temptations. Ready to go? Show some love to the cat dad in your life and tag your fave with hashtag catdad sighting. Give some love to cat dads everywhere. Yes.

[Marc Maron]

All right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck, buddies? What the fuck? Nicks? How's it going? What's happening? I'm Marc Maron. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. What is going on? What is going on with you? Seriously? I mean, what is going on with you? Just tell me. Or just at least tell yourself. Do us all a favor. I'm sorry. You just what, are you just exercising? How are you? Is everything all right? I'm okay. I'm o. I'm okay. I'm okay. I'm okay. A lot of different angles on that one. Today on the show, the. The magnificent Peter Wolf is here. I didn't know what to expect. Peter Wolf, the singer and songwriter and former frontman of the J. Giles band. Yeah, there was a couple Giles records that I listened to the fuck out of. I mean, when Freeze Frame came out. Oh, man. Yeah. In the early stuff, nothing like the Jay Giles band. They're the fucking Jay Giles band. But this is Peter Wolf. He's a. You know, he's of that band, but he's so much more. He wrote this book called Waiting on the Moon. Now, this thing is kind of great because it is a memoir to a degree, but it's really a bunch of essays about the people he's met in his life. Some people who. You know, there's connections there, like when he was in Cambridge. It's just he's one of these guys that's kind of like almost like a Zelig in terms of where he was at certain times before he was in Giles and the relationships he had with, like, Muddy Waters and some relationship he had With Van Morrison. Before Van Morrison was Big John Lee Hooker, you know, intellectuals in the Harvard Square area and then on throughout his life. Just all these different encounters with people. And it was kind of a fascinating, fascinating little moments and portraits of himself and his relationships, even if they're in passing with these people that, you know, some of us all know. I know I'm getting old to say, you know, we all know them, but I, I don't know. Like, most of the references I have were of a generation before me, but doesn't matter. It was kind of interesting and, and, and fun to talk to Peter. So that's happening. I do want to tell you the documentary about me. If you don't get enough of me here. The documentary Are We Good? Is screening at the Tribeca Film Festival in New York City next month. There are two screenings. Saturday, June 14th at 5pm that's at the OkX Theater on Chamber Street. Then Sunday, June 15th at 5:30pm it's screening at the Village east on 2nd Avenue and 12th Street. You can go to wtfpod.com tour. There is a ticket link there. So you can. You can knock that out. Come, come. I know some of you just saw me perform. Come know more about me than you ever need to know. And see a lot of my, you know, there's a lot of. There's a lot of shots of the cats. A lot of shots of me pulling my pants up. That seems to be what my life is about. Pulling my pants up and talking to my cats and doing standup comedy and talking to you people. So the cats, you know, I don't want to leave anybody hanging. I know there's a narrative here about Charlie's issues and Buster. Well, here's what's going on. Since I've been home very consistently for a few weeks now, the hierarchy seems to have leveled off. You know, the king is back and people are behaving appropriately. There's a little, you know, Charlie's excitable, but he's not being hostile. You know, he's punching at Sammy a bit and he's playing with him, and he's punching at Buster just a little bit. Everything seems to have leveled off. They're, they're, they're sweeping. They're sweeping on my bed. Everything is okay. It's okay. I was the missing piece. It was my absence that was causing the power vacuum. And now the power is back, baby. And everybody falls in line. Though Charlie's still very erratic. I don't know if you know this, but I have Those things that you can. I don't know if they're drying racks, but you can unroll them on top of the sink. It's like a rubber grating. And I have them over all the sinks in the kitchen because Charlie, given the opportunity, will pee in the sink. And it happens pretty quickly. I turned my back. I was washing some stuff and I unrolled, or I'd rolled up one of the little rubber grates, and within seconds, Charlie was just peeing in the sink. Just sitting there looking at me, peeing in the sink, directly into the drain. So what was I going to do? I let him finish and then I washed it down. But, yeah, so Charlie, you know, he's a surprising cat, but that wasn't so surprising. It just. I turned away for a second and he's peeing in the sink. Worse things could be happening. Another little bit of information that I got, you know, I don't know how many of you. Sammy, I don't know what to do with Sammy I'm going to bring to the vet because he needs a yearly checkup. But I just. Occasionally he shows affection and he's very awkward with it, and he.

[Peter Wolf]

He's.

[Marc Maron]

He'll lay on my lap in a very seemingly awkward way. Doesn't like to be pet much. But you just. With that kind of cat, he's kind of wait around for it to happen, and you go like, oh, look at you. Buster is my. My guy. And I don't know how many of you have been with me for a long, long time. But when Buster was, I think, less than a year old, he ate some plants that had pollen on it from lilies, and he went into renal failure. And I saved him. But it was always a question as to whether or not he'd get that function back. After ultrasounds, after he recovered, one kidney was small and one kidney was big. And I always assumed that one kidney wasn't working. But then, like, as time went by, it's been eight or nine years here. He, you know, his numbers have been okay, but I just. The vet said, why don't we just take a look at those kidneys again or, like, get some updated information. So I brought him in for an ultrasound. And still one kidney is abnormally small and the other kidney is large. And the assumption is that the small one is dead and the big one's doing the work of two. So I think I know that now. We're fairly conclusive that my cat Buster is kind of churning away on one kidney. But, you know, he's having a good life and we'll just keep going until. Until it starts to buckle and then we'll take steps to help him out. But. But yeah, man.

[Peter Wolf]

Cats.

[Marc Maron]

Am I right? It's nice to be home, folks. Summer is around the corner. That means spending more time out of your home, which means you should be protecting your place with home security. That's why we recommend Simplisafe. With traditional security systems, police get called only after someone has already broken in. But Simplisafe's monitoring agents help prevent break ins before they happen. The AI powered cameras are backed by live professional monitoring agents to detect suspicious activity on your property. Round the clock agents can even talk to people on your property, activate spotlights, contact police, all in real time. That not only prevents threats, it deters them too. More than 4 million Americans use and trust Simplisafe, which is one of the reasons it's been named the best home security system of 2025 by CNET. Right now you can get 50% off your new SimpliSafe system with professional monitoring. And you also get your first month for free. Just go to SimpliSafe.com WTF that's SimpliSafe.com WTF for 50% off and your first month free. SimpliSafe.com WTF? There's no safe like Simplisafe. I bit my fucking lip in the same place three times. There is like nothing more immediately fucking aggravating than biting your lip again in the same place. God damn it. Anyway, look you guys, so I got an interesting email. I want to know if this is a Canadian thing or this guy. Like this is one of the great emails. The subject line, as some of you recall, if you've been following along, I left my laptop at at border control in Toronto at tsa and I talked about how quickly I got it back and it was great. I'm glad I have it because I was ready to ditch it, just get a new one, dump everything I could down from the cloud. But I have it. I have it back. And now the pressing nature of getting a new computer has been lifted. I could probably use a new one, but I don't use it for that much. It doesn't matter. So I get an email Subject line story about lost laptop at airport security in Toronto Just heard Mark story on today's podcast about leaving his laptop at airport security in Toronto. Please apologize to him from me. I recognized Mark in line at security on Sunday and briefly told him a story about how I got scammed on seatgeek and was not able to use tickets I bought to his show in Toronto on Saturday night, the night before. He was very kind during our brief interaction, but obviously I inadvertently distracted him and he left his laptop on the security conveyor belt. I'm so sorry for any inconvenience I might have caused him. Please do pass my apologies along to him and tell him to come back to Toronto soon. Chad.

[Peter Wolf]

Chad, buddy, buddy.

[Marc Maron]

I didn't even think of that. And I don't want you to carry it, man. You really gotta let this go. I don't know if this is politeness or, you know, if it's. I don't know, is it a Canadian thing? Tell me, does that sound like a Canadian email to carry that weight? Chad, I'll be honest with you. I really think what happened was generally because I have TSA pre. Pre check, and they never make me take my computer out, but they make everyone take their computer out at security in Toronto. I guess it's an international thing. So I really think it was just. I'd become quite accustomed to just taking. To not. To not taking my computer out, and I spaced it. But now that you've mentioned it, yeah, maybe. Okay, you know what? Maybe it was your fault. I don't want to blame myself at all. So, Chad, thank you for apologizing. I appreciate that. I can let it go now because really, I wasn't mad at you up until I read the email. And then I realized, well, if this guy wants to carry the load and I don't have to blame myself, I'll blame Chad. And he just apologized, so thank you, Chad. And now the burden is lifted from everybody. Bottom line is, though, I got it back. We can let all of it go, Chad. You and me, together. Okay? We're good. All right, look, Peter Wolf is really a legend, and it was kind of interesting to talk to him because I don't think Jay Giles gets the respect they deserve, quite honestly, number one. And number two, as I said earlier, I was kind of blown away by his book and the fact that it's really not about Jay Giles. It's really about a lot of interesting people that Peter had come in contact with over the years. It's called Waiting on the Artists, Poets, Drifters, Grifters and Goddesses. It's available now wherever you get books, and there's all kinds of stories about all kinds of people in there, and it's very entertaining. And this is me talking to Peter about that and stuff and things I've.

[Peter Wolf]

Been talking about trying to take it easy lately. And once I'm done traveling to make all my tour dates, maybe I can actually travel for vacation. That means I should think of some places where I can. I mean, I've been to a lot of places. I used to go to Kauai a lot. I went up to Vancouver island for a trip. The point is, I can travel to enjoy the trip and not just travel for work.

[Marc Maron]

And the next time you're enjoying a.

[Peter Wolf]

Vacation somewhere, you can have someone back home dealing with all the details to.

[Marc Maron]

Host your place on Airbnb so you.

[Peter Wolf]

Can make some cash while you're away. An Airbnb co host is a high quality local co host who takes care.

[Marc Maron]

Of your home and your guests.

[Peter Wolf]

And you don't have to worry about the listing or managing the reservations.

[Marc Maron]

The co host does all of that for you. Then they're available for anything your guests.

[Peter Wolf]

Might need while they stay there. So relax, enjoy your time away knowing that a co host is taking care of everything. Find a co [e-mail] host all right. The interesting thing about the book is, is that it's not chronological. Like you go, you know, I mean, dropping in, dropping in, dropping in. And what is even more interesting is that it's not necessarily about the band at all.

This was a book that I started many, many, many years ago.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

As a thought, because as I say in the prologue, people said to me, you know, Pete, you tell such great stories, you know, in the dressing rooms, parties.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And they always get the thing.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

You know, hey, Pete, you should write a book.

[Marc Maron]

Right, Right.

[Peter Wolf]

And Christopher Hitchens once said, everybody has a book in them, but it doesn't mean everybody wants to read it. And I always kind of took that to heart. And so many years ago, I wrote a outline of just different adventures. And then the pandemic came along and everybody, friends of mine, where they were doing all these Patreon things and writing rock operas and this and plays and albums. I was just reading, reading and listening to all the records I collected all my life. And I started to make a new recording, and I got about 80% done with it. I realized, wait a second, if I release this, this is going to be into the ether and disappear in like 48 hours like the rest of my solo records, you know, especially the later ones that I love so much. And I figured now might be the time to do something different, a different approach. So I thought this would be the time possibly to really sit down and write a book.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And so I went through all the different little notes I had. And I decided to write a book of basically short stories of the people that I admired, the people I was privileged to get to meet, and the encounters. And I didn't want to do a kiss and tell book. And I also decided.

It's just suggested. Yeah, there's no kissing and telling, but there's. And then we had some cocktails and, you know.

Yeah. And, Mark, the two things I didn't want to write about was my marriage to Faye Dunaway and the J. Giles band.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And I just wanted it to be a collection of short stories. And there's. I'm a big reader. And there's a book called Dogs Bark by Truman Capote. And in it was short stories of vignettes of him meeting Brando. That was pretty interesting. His vignette on Mal Monroe, Humphrey Bogart, you know, when he did a screenplay with Humphrey Bogart for one of his films. And so I thought that, you know, that was an interesting template. And then there was a book, one of my favorite books, Berlin Stories by Christopher Isherwood. And he had a line in there, I am a camera and my shutter is always open. And he describes what Germany was like just before, you know, the Weimar Republic, all that. And that book became what Cabaret was based on.

Right.

The movie and the play. And so I figured that's the way I was going to go. And I was, you know, I read all different musicians, memoirs, biographies.

Any of.

Yeah, well, yeah, a bunch. Not a bunch.

Do you ever read that Straight Life, the Art Pepper one? Oh, man.

That's one of the ones that was going to come to mind.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And it's funny, when Keith Richards.

That's another great one, dude.

Yes. When Keith Richards, Gentleman James Fox, that was helping Keith write his book, came up and spent a good deal of time with me in Boston. And I said, listen, if you're going to be working with Keith, you gotta keep it in his voice. I said, there are certain books he did, too. Oh, he did. And this great thing about Straight Time, though, it was his voice told to his wife on Art Pepper, the great jazz saxophone. Love that book from out here in Los Angeles.

I always say it's 100 pages about saxophone and jazz and 300 pages about heroin in jail.

Oh, boy. Another great one, of course, is Miles Davis's book.

Oh, is that good? Yeah, I haven't read that one.

Oh, man. Man, if you want to be in a room with Miles, you just get that book. Quentin Trupp did. He's a poet and he Sat down with Miles for a long time.

I gotta get that.

It's amazing. And, you know, Miles, a lot of people don't realize, came from a very wealthy family. His father was St. Louis. Right, St. Louis, yeah. And he was going to go to Juilliard, which he did. And he got this bug because he saw some big bands passing through Juilliard. And so he would leave Juilliard at night. He would head down to 52nd Street. And he connected with Dizzy and Charlie Parker, all these great artists. So it's all really documented in this book, which is really an amazing read.

So these are the. You had these in your mind.

Yeah. And then, you know, woman I know and work with a little bit and stuff. I thought at the time it came out, Patti Smith's book, Just Kids.

Oh, it's great.

You know, captured, you know, a moment in time. And it wasn't about, you know, her band or this or that. And so also, Dylan's book, Bob's book, you know, was yours.

Reminded me a lot of that, you know, because Bob is of a type where, you know, time move and the times move through him. And so what you get in that. What was it called? What was his autobiography?

Chronicles.

Chronicles.

Part one.

Yeah. Part one. What you get is this sort of poetic, you know, historical piece about, you know, like, you talk about the folk scene at Bleeker and McDougall around the same time. That store plays heavy in Chronicles.

Right.

And. But what you get is, you see, it's almost like a history book in terms of what these periods were like.

Right.

More than it's about his music, necessarily, except for the, you know, the long chapter on the mystical three chord or four chord progression he figured out.

Right, right, right. And it's funny, you know, you said. Because the two people who I asked for advice about the book. One was Bob.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And I said to him, you know, Bob, I hear you writing a book. How's that? How you approaching that?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

He said, you know, I'm kind of famous. And so, you know, if I'm writing about 1974.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

I might call up a couple of people and say, what do you remember about 1974? And I thought he was putting me on.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

Until I. I'll give you, for instance, when I was writing this book.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

I had a scene where I remember walking down the hallway in this hotel, the Rolling Stones were playing in Boston.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

They're playing several nights at the Boston Garden. And they took over the entire floor of the Sheridan Hotel in Boston. Big hotel. But the whole floor. They had bodyguards and, you know, security by the elevators. You couldn't get up to the top floor. And they had the whole band, everybody. The whole top floor was rented out by the Rolling Stones and their crew. And I remember being up there and walking into a room, and as I was writing, sitting on the floor, playing acoustic guitars was Mick Jagger, Keith Richards and Graham Parsons.

Right.

And they were singing Sing Me Back Home, merle Haggard's great song.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And as I'm researching, because I wanted to get things, because Bob said, you know, call people who remember 72. But I didn't know who to call. So I was doing my own research. I realized that Graham Parsons had died a year before this tour, so he couldn't have been in the room. And so then I got scared because, you know, couldn't trust your memory. So I checked out, and really what I realized was that Mick and Keith were sitting on the floor. They were playing acoustic guitars. They were singing. Singing back home. But was Keith telling me that he learned the song from Graham?

Wow. Interesting.

And so that's why I just assumed Graham was in the room. But that whole thing of historically placing something. And so for me, in starting this book, it was just gonna be chapters.

Yeah, I think it's great.

But each chapter was gonna be like a short story.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

So there's 30 something chapters in it.

Of your memories and of things that had an impact on your life.

Yeah. And people who I. Sure. So if you're interested in Alfred Hitchcock and you see Alfred Hitchcock, or if you're interested in Muddy Waters or Julia Childs, you can go to any chapter.

But the most interesting thing about it, I mean, I think it should be read, you know, as a book all the way through.

Well, I would hope so. Yes.

But what's interesting to me is that.

[Marc Maron]

Fortuitous.

[Peter Wolf]

These coincidences, but they're not coincidences. Only in the sense that when you look back at them, you met so many interesting people of so many different walks of creative life, but the constant is you. And it's just an interesting life outside of whatever the J. Giles band was or is or what it means to somebody is that, you know, this morning I was thinking, well, his full life, you know, it's only 20% Jake Isles.

I mean, my solo career is longer than the Jake Band.

[Marc Maron]

But I'm talking about, like, you becoming.

[Peter Wolf]

The creative person that you were, was informed by these experiences that are rich and varied. And no one would ever know that, you know, if you hadn't written this book. And Once you read it, you can see how all this stuff was kind of feeding into you and your vision and what the music was at some point, and the music you liked, the music you played originally, the music you ended up playing all through your life.

But if I might say, you know, before we go any further, I loved the Jay Giles Band. Of course I. I put my heart and soul into the J. Giles. It became. It became my life. Even in my marriage, you know, Jay Giles Band was always front and center, and that never caused a problem because when Faye and I were married, I was very dedicated to helping her with her career, and she was extremely dedicated in helping me with my career. So we were, you know, we always had that understanding. We never even had to mention it. But the Giles band was my entire life, as you can read in the book. And the reason that I devoted. Finally, once I was writing and I wasn't mentioning Faye and I wasn't mentioning mentioning the.

Well, you mentioned you meeting Faye and sort of the poetry of romance. I mean, it's not a kiss and tell book, but you do talk about how and why you fell in love with her.

Well, once I got to Little Brown, the publishing company, and the gentleman who was Bruce Nichols, who was my editor, he said, you know, you're not writing anything about the Giles band. They're mentioned throughout these ventures. But, you know, Pete, people want to know, you guys were together for 17 years. What happened? I said, well, I, you know, don't want to get into that typical thing with, you know, bands and the bass player and this and getting fight. And so I. After, he. And I have an agent by the name of Andrew Wiley. I don't know if that name rings a bell.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, it does.

[Peter Wolf]

But Andrew Wylie is probably one of the most, you know, respected book agents in, you know, in the industry. And he handled Salman Rushdie, Martin Amos.

Right.

Saul Bellows estate, Philip Roth estate. He's a very notable literary agent, and he handled Bob Lou Reed. And, you know, he thought that I should write something about the Giles band. So I wrote a chapter about the Giles band. And as the woman that I dedicated this book to, her name is Grace o' Connor. And her sister, Nora o' Connor, who you recently met, she had finished this book called, I think it was the Long Goodbye, about Chinatown being the last great film, the last movie of the 70s, sort of the last Hollywood's last great movie. Yeah. And I was telling her, you know, when I was on the set of Chinatown and, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, she said, what she said, peter, you gotta write that. You know, I said, no, I don't want to get into. No, you gotta write that. Because you told me more about Chinatown than the making of Chinatown. This whole entire book, you know, described. So I sat down and wrote a chapter about that. And then I started writing about Faye and about, you know, how we first met. And I realized we had a deliriously intoxicating. All puns intended, a really amazing romance, a greater love story.

[Marc Maron]

It's a sweet chapter.

[Peter Wolf]

And so I go through. There's several chapters with her. And so I finalized. There's a. You know, chapters on Fay and all our adventures and our beginning, our middle, and our sad end of the marriage. And with the Giles band. I tried to keep it in one chapter under the name fratricide, which is an old biblical word, Latin word that comes from meaning brother killer. Yeah, we were all. It's a brotherhood in a band. And I try to describe in the book that certain classic bands of the era that the Giles band formed, you know, that 60s era, you have this, you know, McCartney, Lennon. And usually there's a key player. Key players in a band.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

Or a key player. But I was talking about where there's key is generally two people. And they kind of have a kind of immediate interaction. And they connect and they feel like, wow, man, we got something going. And then so they look for the drummer or the bass player and other people. And you form like this little collective or a gang or a group, and you become sort of. It all becomes one. But the key players are making the creative decisions. And that's usually understood from day one. And so, for instance, Jagger, Richards, you know, maybe it didn't start from day one, but developed very quickly into that. McCartney, Lennon McCartney.

We talked to Keith, and it's Keith Spam, but.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

Yeah. And he's something else.

Yeah.

Talk about, you know, talk about wit. His wit is as sharp as the knife he carries.

A smart fucker, too. That book blew my mind. Cause I loved the Stones my whole life. And you read that book and like, oh, my God, there's so much more to this guy any of us ever imagined. Which I think happens with your book, too.

Well, thank you. And that's what the intention was. And then you have, like, Glenn Fry and Don Henley and, you know, the list can go on and on. Joe Perry, you know, Steve Tyler. And so what happened with the Gals Band, that all the collective is together, the band's together, you all. You're all unified. And you're looking to, you know, maintain and keep going. Paying your rent.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And turning 5 into 10, 10. And you know, and when there's a crack in those key members, it's like a crack in a marriage.

Right.

And if it gets close to divorce, the other members are like the family or the kids in the family. I don't mean in a negative way, but they're caught between these two sides. And that ultimately was what happened with the J. Giles band. I was very determined to go on the band and keep it in a roots direction.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And there was. Me and the key player got into differences of opinion about.

Because popular music was changing.

Popular music was changing. There was a certain sense that, you know, bands that had been around were dinosaurs. There was the new wave, all of that new faces, you know, this and it kind of. And there was that pop in the synthesizer sound. And I think my other key member wanted to go into the more pop tech oriented.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

Because he was a keyboard player and he loved, you know, all the synths and the Oberheims and all of that stuff.

Yeah. That's the double edged sword with the keyboard players is eventually you can make sounds that a whole band can make and.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And so I, you know, once that we, we had a writing partnership like Lennon McCartney, where, you know, whatever songs.

And you and Seth.

Yes, me and Seth and whoever did what we, we didn't count. You know, we just came up with a song and like, must have got lost. You know, I remember writing it on a, you know, flying back from Colorado. Right. On a Holiday Inn envelope.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

You know, and, yeah, we sitting down together and you know, you might have added a minor here. This, you know, you're working together. And when that started to fracture, he wanted to break up that sort of understanding as a team. And it was a hurtful kind of thing, but he felt that, look, I could move on if I wanted to work with other people, that was fine. But he just did not want to be committed to this, you know, 50, 50 working relationship. That fracture got bigger and bigger until finally the Giles band as a team, they stuck with the other key writer and they felt that it would be best they go their way and I go mine. And I brought in a bunch of songs that all became songs that were on my first solo record. Lights out.

Yeah, lights out. Uh huh.

Blast, blast, blast. Uh huh. And so I wrote that with a great songwriter. I wrote that with Don Kove, who wrote Chain of Fools for Rita Franklin.

What fascinated me too was that early on, I mean, you start this Book with almost a fantastical child memory that, you know, kind of sets the tone for the whole thing that, you know, you realize, you know, in retrospect, that, you know, you by coincidence went to the movies with your mom, I think, and there was some family strain going on. Your sister was ill.

Right.

And then, you know, just who knows why? But after the movie starts, Marilyn Monroe and Arthur Miller, you know, sneak in, and you end up sitting next to Marilyn Monroe. And that kind of becomes the portal of the. And the template of the whole book is that it's not coincidental that was. But in your life, because of your interest in music and art and what have you, you. You came in contact and had experiences with these, you know, phenomenal people of all different kinds. And I just think it's very interesting that it starts with Marilyn. And you were what, like, 10?

Yeah, yeah, I was 10 years old. And the chapter is called I Slept with Marilyn Monroe.

Yeah.

And what happened, Margaret, is that we were sitting in this theater. My sister had rheumatic fever. Yeah. And it was disease that was not very well known. They were doing research, and she was at this hospital, and I was too young to be able to go in to see her, so they quarantined her. And my parents would visit, and they got news that wasn't very good. And so my mother decided to take us all to a film.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And my mother, being politically very progressive at the time, and she, you know, was considered during the McCarthy era red because she believed in women's rights, equal rights, inequality for blacks, whites. She was on the first freedom ride. She believed in unions and, you know, just all the progressive things.

Were you guys Jewish family?

Yes, there was half and a half, part Jewish. And then my father grew up in Little Italy, but the Little Italy of Harlem. Okay. And. But. But I ended up living with my Russian Jewish grandmother, who was from Odessa.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And she was a great singer, songwriter, and she was in. It's now forgotten, but was a very potent, vibrant place, the Yiddish theater in New York, Lower east side, with John Garfield and Paul Muni, who's got it. And so we're in this movie theater. The. The movie that my parents picked was a Jules Dassen movie, was French.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And it was a French film called Hugh. Translated was Hugh Must Die.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And the premise of the movie was by Nikos Kazinsakis, who's a Greek writer who's. I read all his books. Not at 10 years old, but early on. And the film is about if Christ came back to Earth, the First people that would want to kill him would be the church because he would be against, you know, the whole opulence and all the money collected at the Vatican. And he would be, you know, so controversial and so. But the movie was in French, and I'm 10 years old, dyslexic, you know, looking at subtitles. And it was not very interesting to me. And it was one of these art theaters, small art theaters in the middle of Manhattan. And this woman moves next to me because I guess some people sat in front of this couple that was, you know, sort of obstructing their view. So she moves right next to me where I'm sitting, and I'm eating my, you know, Good and plenty, or MM's, whatever it might be. And this intoxicating smell, you know, an amazing smell that she had. And I dropped my box of candy, and I went to pick it up, and I noticed that she was wearing house slippers, fuzzy house slippers and a nightgown and, you know, underneath of her coat. And this was very odd, you know, going to movies and, you know, house slippers and a nightgown. And so she kicked the box and picked it up and gave it to me. And she was wearing sunglasses and a kerchief tied, but had this amazing smile. And I took the candy back. And as the movie continued, I could slowly feel her head resting upon my shoulder till she actually just fell asleep. And as the movie wore on and on, I, too, got very tired and fell asleep. And so our heads were together. We were sleeping together. As I tell in the end of the story, how it ends. That's how I ended up sleeping with Mal Monroe.

But you didn't know.

No, I didn't know until the lights came up. Right? Until the lights came up. And then everybody in the movie theater said, oh, my God, there they are. There they are. And it was very. She just got married to Arthur Miller. And, you know, they were trying to rush out, and he woke her, and then he woke me up, too, because we were both locked. Our heads were locked together, you know, Honey, honey, we got to go. The lights are going to come on.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And she, you know, I think was probably kind of not out of it, but she took her a while to get her up.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And then she turned around. I remember watching her because she had this fur coat and the hair, and everybody was all, you know, excited. And she turned and gave me this amazing smile. And the only thing left was the lingering perfume, which I researched and found out was Chanel number five.

There you go.

And, yeah, so that was one of my first encounters. But in every one of these chapters, almost, it's by serendipity, if that's the right way.

That's what I mean. That's what I was trying to say. It's just by coincidental circumstance.

Yeah. And it's not like I'm trying to write about. I know all these famous people.

No, I know, but it's crazy because they weren't famous, you know, like, you know, I mean, I had no idea that you were kind of wandering your own creative landscape and wanted to be a painter. And that was gonna be the thing.

I was going to be. A painter.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

I mean, that was about when I was about maybe four or five. Art was my obsession.

But your dad was kind of a singer, too?

My dad was a baritone, and he also had a great love for painting. But he was in the Robert Shaw Chorale later on. But early in the early days, in the 30s and stuff, he was a song plugger. And people don't really remember what song pluggers were because music came out in those days on sheet music. And you would have, in different record stores, people with pianos playing the new song. And then people. Most people had pianos in their homes and if they liked the song, they'd buy the sheet music. Or if they heard a song on the radio being sung by a big band, because before records were being played, they would get the sheet music. Or if they saw a song in a film, Irving Berlin song or something, they would buy the sheet music and take it home and play it on the piano. So my dad had a radio show called Boy Baritone and It was a 15 minute show on WQXR. And he sang the latest songs. And then he ended up joining the Shubert Theater at 14 and traveled doing light operas like the Merry Widow and Student Prince. And he traveled on a train and he would tell me that the train had all the sets and everybody slept on the train. The train was a hotel. Every night after the show, you'd go back to the train and sleep on the train and guys would carouse in the bars and stuff. And so show business was in my life early on.

It's a specific type of show business that you actually ended up living.

Right. But little did I know my father's brother was a dancer at Roseland. And this was in the era when dancing, ballroom dancing and tangos and mambos and people would go out to places and go out to nightclubs, would have bands and people would dance and he was A ladies man. And he was my father's older brother. And he managed a gorilla, a champion baton twirler, the world's strongest man puppeteer, that was a ventriloquist. And my father. And his office was in The Automat on 42nd street next to Jack Dempsey's, where Bob Dylan's book opens up. So I know the era quite well, and he always had a variety under his arm with a cigar. And he was always trying to get my D. You know, different jobs and different gigs, and I adored him. And he had a little black book, you know, with women's names on it. And I watched him, you know, would call up ladies. But he was kind of homely. He kind of had a Jimmy Durante look to him. But he was an amazing, you know, amor ladies man. And he had tons of women and he was a great dancer. And so he got my father these. And my father got a scholarship to study opera in Italy.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

But during the Depression, he felt that, you know, as a male, he had a stay in work. And so he stayed in the United States and gave up his dream as becoming an actual opera singer, but stayed with music.

But also the, you know, once you got to Boston, because the Gallows Band was a booze band, R and B band. They were a rock and roll band. But it was very. It was specific what the roots of the sound were.

Oh, yeah.

And, you know, again, the coincidence of you being in Boston, you know, around Harvard, you know, living your somewhat transient life, that, you know, coming into contact. Cause I know, like, there was that group of guys, the three of them, Fahey, and there was a couple other ones at Harvard who were digging up a lot of these blues guys who had lost. Had been lost to time.

Dick Waterman and Joe Boyd mentioned a lot of them.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

On your show.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And, yeah, they were researching and finding a lot of the old bluesmen.

Because there were 78 collectors. And, like, what happened to these guys?

Right?

And they went and found Sun House.

Right.

They found Skip James and. But. But you were there. And. And by the time. I don't think people fully realize that, you know, these records were almost rarities that you had to really seek them out.

Oh, yeah.

At a certain time. And that. That blues revival. I mean, you know, about the. The blues revival in. In England and stuff. But the fact that you were there and. And it was sort of the. The period, you know, just in. In the middle and towards the end of the folk scene that they were running guys like Muddy through and guys like, you know, John Lee Hooker. And you were able to see all these guys, but you sort of have these interactions with them and build relationships with them before you were really even a band.

Right.

It's kind of crazy, isn't it?

Well, what was really crazy is I did have a band. We were art students. It was all art.

The hallucinations.

Yes. And because of the 60s, we thought hallucinations. Well, that was pretty cool. And not unlike when David Byrne, you know, was going to RISD in Rhode island.

And you were at the Museum School.

I was at the Museum School in Boston. And so it was all art student. And a lot of these blues artists, because of Newport was so close to Boston, also came to a club, very famous club, folk club in Boston called the Club 47.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And that was where Joan Baez got a start. And that's where Bob, you know, Dylan and Dave Van Ronck and Eric Von Schmidt, these names, Tom Rush, they all played the club 47. And you would go, and I would go. But previous to that, I have to say I went to High School of Music and Art in Manhattan. And I was a Bronx boy. And so I travel every day by bus and train to get to school. And the school was located in Harlem on 135th Street. And once a week, I'd make a mecca. I was there for many years, but once a week, religiously, I went to 125th street, home of the famed Apollo Theater. So when I was going to high school at the age of like, 14, 15, whatever it is, I went to the Apollo once a week. And I saw every great R and B jazz artist that was still working. And so I saw everyone from James Brown to Dyke and the Blazers, Aretha Franklin, all the great comedians. Moms Mabley, Pyg Meat Martin, you know, here come the Judge, Pygmy Markham. Yeah, yeah. Flip Wilson, you know, all. You know, it's just amazing. And then people. And then they would have jazz cavalcade. So I got to see John Coltrane, Herbie Mann, Ray Charles, Betty Carter and Jackie Wilson. And so Otis Redding's first appearance, one of the first appearances, I should say. And Joe Tex and Wilson Pickett.

You saw them all.

Yeah. And I'd go to Birdland, because Birdland allowed drinking age in New York was 18. And if you were accompanied by an adult, which meant someone that was 18 years old, I would sit in what they would call the Milk Bar, which is a section that they just serve soft drinks. And I got to see Art Blakey and the Jazz Messenger, Horror Silver, you know, Bathlonius at the five Spot. So all these great jazz artists that just had this amazing impact on me. Before I even got to Boston to study at the museum school. So New York just had this amazing cultural. Just renaissance.

And then you were downtown, like, because your dad knew. What's his name? Irv.

Izzy Young run the Folklore Center.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Peter Wolf]

And I'm. And I would go to the Folklore center because they had these great, you know, Folkway records. And Sing out magazine, which was a folk magazine.

And that covered some blues as well.

Oh, yeah. But mostly it was a folk, you know, traditional. Like the child's ballads and.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

If somebody wrote a song like Peter Lafarge, they would have that in there. And I was there in the Folklore center one day. And there was this curtain in the back. And I'm hearing, you know, this voice singing something like Pretty Peggy O or something. And, you know, oh, man, I sounded great. And singing another song and sounded kind of like just great blues kind of song. And I could hear the packing up of guitars behind the curtain. And these three guys walk out. And I go up to the front of the store and I ask the fellow, you know, who is that singing? He goes, oh, that's this guy, Bobby Dylan Stylan or something. He's a new friend of Izzy's. Just came to New York last week.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And you were just there, Right.

And I just happened to hear it. And so I was so intrigued by what I heard. I ran down the steps to see if I could find where these guys were going.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And so I went back to the Folklore center and said, well, where is he playing around? He said, oh, he's just kicking around. He plays sometimes at the Cafe Wa. Or you can catch him at the Gaslight. They do hootenannies there and stuff. So I would go down and seek out, try to find this guy. Bob Dylan. Dylan. And then I realized that one day I saw at the Gaslight there was some names of hootenanny tonight and blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I asked, you know, if this Bob Dylan or Dylan or whatever was going to be playing. And oh, yeah, he was. And then I caught, you know, early set of Bob Dylan doing a bunch of Talk of New York and these gospel plow and Woody Guthrie songs and stuff. And the fellow that was running the hootenanny was a folk singer by a great folk singer, Dave Van Rock.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And so then I became, you know, totally obsessed with this guy. Because just watching him and he was amazingly, you Know, funny.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

Had an incredible stage presence and you, you know, charismatic. You couldn't take your eyes off him when he got up. And he would do things like, you know, play around with his hat and, you know, dunk his harmonica in a glass of water.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And he said, man, you know, tell you, you know, I'm. This is how you bring back harmonica alive. He said, I wonder if I dunk it in a glass of wine, would the harmonica get drunk? And, you know, people would be. I mean, it was just like a. Sort of like a comedian, a raconteur. Yeah. It was just great entertainment.

I think he got that from Jack Elliot.

Well, yes, you know, Ramblin Jack. But he edited Jack's rambling. Sure, sure.

But I think he got that charm trick from Jack.

I would have to agree. And. But he had a great wit, great charm, which he still has. And so I follow them and I finally see, you know, this Monday night hootenanny. Pay a dollar, you get a free drink. And at that time, I had no money and I was drinking what they call 151rum party. 151rum, a little bit of Coke. And when on an empty stomach, you have two of those and you're there.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And so I was out of money. And I would always push my way to the bar where Bob would always hold court on Monday. And he'd be talking to some guy about. He just heard this, like, amazing record, man, that John Hammond gave him in this white album cover, man. And it's this blues artist, you know, Robert Johnson, man. And this guy's singing something and he's explaining. He's turning to the guy that was.

Before they put the record out of those 20 songs or whatever.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And so he had a glass of wine and he's turned his back is, you know, towards me. I'm standing right next to him, he's talking to this guy. So I take his glass of wine and I drink it, you know, put it down. Bob turns around and realizes the glass is empty. You know, Calls over to the bartender, you know, hey, you know Joe. So Joe fills up the glass, he takes some wine, turns back to the fellow talking. I see the glass of wine, drink wine. His would go on all night. And he had no idea that this little punk next to him was drinking his wine. Because he was so into telling the story. And if all he had to do was raise his hand and his glass would get refilled. So I would just follow him.

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

It was funny, though, because the first.

[Peter Wolf]

Sort of when you kind of reached out to him and were able to get his attention long enough to say.

[Marc Maron]

You were a painter.

[Peter Wolf]

And then he said, I like paintings. You should come show me.

I had a little studio at an apartment. I had lived in an apartment building in the Bronx, and there was this little house next door. And the woman that lived there allowed me to have a studio in my apartment. I mean, down in her basement. And I'm listening to wbi, which was a Pacifica radio station. And there was a. A show on. Folk Singer's Choice by Cynthia Gooding. And her guest that afternoon was a young folk singer just blew into town, Bob Dylan.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And I was, you know, big fan. I turn it up loud, and Bob's on there, and he's singing, talking about, oh, man, he just came back from a circus, and his mother and father, he's traveling here, and he's, you know, training bulls. And, I don't know, he's doing this Bob thing. And. And the show's over, and I call up and I asked for Ms. Gooding and says, excuse me, I was listening to the show. Can you tell me where Bob's playing again? Because I want to go see him. And she goes, well, hold on. And there's a minute or so passes by, and Bob gets on the phone. I go, hey, man, just really love your music. Following down any place you performing next so I can come down and see you. And he said, yeah, man. I said, you know, I'm a painter. And he said, oh, you're a painter. I love painting. I'm painting. Oh, yeah. I get this address. And so two seconds later, I'm grabbing all my paintings, getting on the subway, rushing down to meet, you know, this guy that I'm enchanted with. And I get to the address, and there's members Mark Splostra and Patrick Skye, two folk singers sitting on the steps. And I go up, and I'm looking around the doorbell for the name. He's looking for Bob. I go, yeah. I said, so are we. And just at that moment, this gentleman, John Harold, he said, well, Bob's at the Gaslight. Yeah, I'm not the gas light. The Kettle of Fish was a bar where they all hung out, and they're all at the Kettle of Fish. And I come in with paint in hands. And I said, I didn't know what Bob at this point looked like, so I had not seen him yet, because I'm backtracking a little bit. But I heard the voice and people talking. Hey, Bob, I want some More beer. And they have these pitches of beer and a drink. And I go up to him and say, hey, man, I got these paintings for you that you want to see. He looks at me and goes, paintings? I don't want to see no paintings. And boom. You know, it was like.

That was a hard moment.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

Yeah.

It's just so funny because there's this, like, arc of you pestering Bob or drinking his wine and now, like, in the arc of your evolving friendship with him over the years.

[Marc Maron]

Does he remember that stuff?

[Peter Wolf]

I don't know. I was not. I was wise enough. I was wise enough never to mention it. But what's interesting is this.

He gave you a nice blurb, if you could. Sometime back, Pete gave me a biography of the painter Charles Soutine.

Soutine. Chaim Soutine.

Chaim Soutine said he was the Jimmy Reed of the art world, but I already knew that. Soutine is nowhere in this memoir, nor is Jimmy Reed, but there's plenty of.

[Marc Maron]

Other folks who are.

[Peter Wolf]

This book reads like a fast train. You'll get a glimpse of everyone passing by through the window. Characters that have crossed Pete's path, who he's known up close and personal. A diverse crowd, one you wouldn't think belong in the same book. Marilyn Monroe with a scarf on her head sitting next to him in a movie theater. Muddy Waters, Faye Dunaway, David lynch, the filmmaker. Eleanor Roosevelt Jagger, Tennessee Williams, Merle Haggard. They all play an important part in Pete's life. It's come alive in more ways than one. As you'll see. Pete's been on quite a journey. But before it all began, he had hopes to become a great painter. But then out of nowhere, early on, he went in another direction and never came back. This memoir has been a long time coming, and it's Pete's great painting. That's nice.

Oh, yeah.

So he read it?

Yeah, he read it. And I was so, so honored when he, you know, did that and sent that in, because it just meant the world to me.

Yeah, it's beautiful.

You know, and here's the funny thing with Bob. When I first heard his voice, I had a moment like that not too many years before that.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

I was sitting on a stoop in the Bronx, where I grew up, and through the window, I heard this voice coming on the radio, and it was this singer, you know, don't leave me, baby. You know, don't leave me, baby I'll die well, since my baby left me ba boom and I was transfixed, you know, I Couldn't believe it. And I, you know, it was just drifting through a window. And I ran to the local record store that very moment, and I. You know, about 10 blocks away, I ran into the record store and I said, do you got this record about some hotel? You know, something about a guy? And then he goes, the owner of the store said, you're about the 30th kid that came in and asked me about that record. I should have it, you know, by Thursday. And this was. I don't know what day. And every day I'd go in to see if they had this, you know, record. And it was just. I just had to have this record and. But the point I'm trying to make is I didn't know what this person looked like.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

I didn't know anything about him, but there was something in the voice that made this, you know, spiritual, mystical impact on me that I cannot explain. And that person, ultimately, was Elvis Presley.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And so from 10 years old, I became an Elvis Presley fan. Sure. Still to this day. And I was the one guy that bought every soundtrack album that he. I mean, I stayed at, became and stayed an Elvis Presley fan, you know, right up until the day he died and continued. And still an Elvis Presley fan. That's why I loved Peter Gurnick's books on Elvis. Those two volumes, they're just the definitive. And if anyone has any interest in Elvis Presley, I recommend Last Train to Memphis and then his second volume, Careless Love, which is the downfall of Elvis, which was really a tour de force. But what is it that, you know, I can't explain it, but what is it that in the voice that Elvis possessed and Bob possessed, that it was his voice? Who knows? And that is the thing that I find so magical and not only for me, but throughout the world. Presley, you know, people couldn't even understand what he was saying. Just something in the voice. And same with Bob. And I always considered Bob, probably, and I still do, you know, one of the most expressive singers, like, expressive painting of a song, you know, akin to Sinatra, that really knew how to sell the lyric of a song. And when you hear Bob do other people's songs like he did early on, you know, they're so powerful, you know. And if he does man of Constant Sorrow, like from the, you know, Stanley Brothers or, you know, Pretty Peggy. Oh, and these, you know, great, you know, old traditional songs, he did that later, too.

You know, Rosen had him doing those kind of interesting covers for A World Gone Wrong. Oh, right, yeah. Those cover records are, you Know, when.

He was older, doing those acoustic.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

Woman. Debbie Gold helped put that together with him. But no. So he's, you know, just a master at, you know, expressing through song, the lyrical meaning of a song. Just like you can listen to Fred Astaire singing One for My Baby, One More for the Road. And then you hear Sinatra. And Sinatra stole that song. So that Johnny Mercer song, when you hear it, you gotta. It's Sinatra's. He owns it.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I mean, you had that same.

[Peter Wolf]

Sort of sensitivity to John Lee Hooker.

Oh, boy.

And to Muddy.

Oh, boy.

And when we started this arc here, that was fascinating to me that, you know, you were kind of waiting around the club for, in both cases, it seems, with Buddy and John Lee Hooker to see them, and you offered them some help. And you ended up building sort of, you know, lifelong friendships with these guys.

I did. And I would, you know, wait. If I found out they were playing at a club, I would get there early afternoon so I could see them arrive, be there to greet them and just, you know, see what they. You know, just to get close to them.

Before James Cotton.

Yeah. And so Muddy was playing at this Club 47, where Bob and Joan Baez and everybody played this iconic. And for a blues band of that nature, Chicago Blues Band, to be playing at this fourth club in those years we're talking about, I think 64th was pretty unique and out of the ordinary. And I remember standing, you know, all afternoon, and finally, you know, two Cadillacs come rolling up. And then as a kid, I had bought the Best of Muddy Waters album just because of the COVID Did not know what the music was like, because I came enchanted with this face on the COVID this profile. And then there, sitting in the car, was this profile. Yeah, right in front of me. And I run up And I go, Mr. Waters, you know, welcome to the club, 47. Welcome to, you know, Cambridge. You know, is there anything I can do? And he gets out of the car, and this is regal, beautifully. You know, he's had this diamond stick pin and his tie and, you know, his coiffed hair, beautiful orange, bronze skin.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

He looks at me and goes, yeah, you can start carrying that equipment, you know. And he thought I worked at the club. But I was more than happy to carry the equipment. And they stayed at this club, the dressing room, the club was like half the size of the studio that you and I are talking in. And I explain it in the book. But long story short, I had an apartment, little funky apartment about two, three blocks away. And what develops is Muddy and his entire band are using my apartment as their clubhouse. And so there in my little futon on the floor is lying my hero in Muddy Waters, you know, in his, you know, T shirt, you know, durag on his head, and I'm playing him records. There's one very poignant scene where it was Muddy's birthday, and I was planning a party for Muddy, a surprise party. Muddy was on stage and knowing it was his birthday. I had all the cake and all. Muddy was drinking champagne at that point. And I had scotch for the rest of the band and gin for Otis Band. And during the show, the manager comes running up to me and says, peter, we were in Boston. When I moved to Boston in those years was probably one of the most segregated cities north of the Mason Dixon Line, because you had Little Italy, North End where Italians lived. You had Brookline and Newton, where most of the Jewish community lived, yet Southey, where the Irish lived. And it was just totally segregated. And so we were in this, you know, at that time, this black neighborhood where this club was.

What club?

It was the Boston Tea Party.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And this woman, the manager, comes running to me and tells me Martin Luther King had just been assassinated and didn't know if he was. You know, it was just. And so Muddy's in the middle of the band, and I tell Otis Band's wife, and she starts screaming, you gotta tell Muddy. You gotta tell Muddy. And he just finishes the song. And I, you know, as I say in the book, I had to go up and tell Muddy that Martin Luther King. And the audience was filled with young, you know, white kids and, you know, fans. And basically, the audiences that Muddy was playing to in those years were primarily, especially up north, were, you know, just young, white, you know, folk, you know, people.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

You know, jab, whatever. And that became a very poignant evening. And also it was his birthday.

What happened?

Well, everyone, Muddy called for a slow blues number, really slow blues number. And the band was playing, and Muddy, you know, control the band, just waved his hand lower and lower, and then he put his hand up, turned to the band, and they had the band stop. And he said, young people, listen to me. Something terrible has happened. Martin Luther King has been assassinated. He's killed. I want you all to be very quiet, please. Leave very quietly. Stick together and go home and be safe. Get home quick, please. Because Muddy knew there was going to be big trouble.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And, you know, people filed out. There was a. You know, you could hear a pin drop. You know, everybody was just, you know, you can hear the fear and the, you know, just the, you know, the sense of, you know, King being killed. And we went back to this little funky, you know, just run down hotel where Muddy and the Bam were living. It was basically a red light. You know, it was a flop house, not a flophouse. But it was just, you know, these great artists, you know, the trash. We can get into it more, you know, just that these black jazz poets, geniuses, had to, you know, to endure in those years and still endure. And so we went back and. And we had the birthday cake and Muddy went to his room and I was with the rest of the band. They said, you know, we should at least celebrate. We got the cake. Muddy's driver named Big Bo was his assistant, went in and got Muddy. Muddy came in and we lit the candles. And you can hear the sirens, the police cars outside the windows, you know, getting louder and louder and more sirens, more sirens. You could tell the city was. It was. And you could tell Muddy was very subdued.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

Stood over the cake, blew out the candles, and it was very easy to understand what wish he had. And with Muddy, I encountered Howlin Wolf and all these great people. And the chapter ends where, over the years, I got to play and tour with Muddy many times. Whenever he came to town, I was only too happy to continue to act as his personal valet. I would take him for a bite to eat, and after the show we would head out to the airport, and in the early morning hours, we'd wait for the first flight out to Chicago. By then, he mostly flew to all his gigs because he had a bad car accident and he was unable to endure the long drives with the band. The last time I saw him, we sat together all night under the harsh glare of the fluorescent lights at Logan Airport. When it was time for him to board the plane, I walked him to his gate as if you knew we might never see each other again. He said, li' l Wolf. Peter the Wolf. Thank you, thank you, thank you, my friend. He repeated it once more. And then with the regal bearing that never let you forget you're in the presence of a king. He walked down the jetway, turning just once to wave before he disappeared from sight. That's how I ended it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

So last time you saw him?

Last time I saw him, he died not too long after.

Well, I'll tell you, man, I mean, throughout the book, you know, the.

The.

The whole. Your part in, you know, kind of Van Morrison's career, it's kind of fascinating. And then, you know, you're figuring out Your own thing. You know, there's. There's bits in there, you know, Robert Lowell, Martin Scorsese.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, the.

[Peter Wolf]

The range of. Of people he encountered. Andy Warhol, that guy, Ed Hood.

Seems like an amazing story. Yeah.

And, you know, all through it, like, it's. It's very, you know, you don't want to put it down. And, you know, if you. If you're into the history of arts and culture, the story about Coltrane playing, that was crazy, man. You know, that Loft department and even David lynch, which I knew nothing about, that arc of that story is kind of.

Oh, thank you.

Yeah, yeah. But how did you meet him? It was just a coincidence.

Well, I never really graduated high school. You know, you had to go to summer school. I wasn't going to do that. And I was, you know, at this specialized high school. You took an exam, High School of Music and Art. And so all my friends, it was a very bright. A lot of the students, very bright, other than myself. And they all went to very established colleges throughout the United States. University of Chicago, University of Wisconsin, Harvard, this. And so I spent a year hitchhiking around, going to these universities to visit my friends, but pretending I was an art student at these universities. Because in those years, you know, this was not Internet. You didn't need id. If you look like a student, you'd be able to go into the student lounge or go into the dining room and eat. And so I would visit my friends and hang out and live in the student lounge on the couches and sleep there and maybe use a shower. You know, shower once a week or once a month whenever I was, you know, I was a kind of mess back then. And this one gentleman at the University of Chicago who I went to high school with constantly wanted to get rid of me. His name was Leon Botstein, and he ended up becoming the president of Bard College.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Peter Wolf]

And so Leon, trying to get rid of me, says, you know, we're all driving to Boston and, you know, you're going around pretending you're an art student to these different colleges. You have an amazing bunch of colleges in, you know, the Boston area. And I thought, oh, yeah, there's Harvard, there's bu, there's Northeastern, there's Brandeis, you know, Simmons. I mean, you know, it was a girls school, but it didn't bother me. So, you know, so I figured, wow, man, I could, you know, what I would do is I would, you know, pretend I was an art student, use all the art supplies, paint, and, you know, move on. Once you Know, my welcome was. Or somebody figured out I wasn't really there. I just move on to another university. So here I am in Boston. And during the ride, Leon says, you know, there's a school here, the Boston Museum, School of Fine Arts. And so they stopped, and I took some of my paintings that were in the trunk, and I brought them in and I applied. I didn't have the money. Leon lent me the money for the application.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And so I'm hitchhiking now I'm back in Wisconsin again, pretending I'm an art student at the school. And I call every now and then home to let my mom know I'm okay. And she goes, peter, you got a letter from the Boston Museum, School of Fine Arts. And lo and behold, I was accepted and I was given a grant. And so I was on my way to Boston and didn't have a place to stay, so I was in the museum. School on the wall, you know, looking for, you know, people post things, you know, looking for, you know, selling a toaster, you know, having a place, Looking for a place, looking for a roommate. And this voice behind me says, you looking for a place?

[Marc Maron]

Are you looking for a place?

[Peter Wolf]

Yeah. And I go, yeah. And he goes, well, I'm looking for a roommate. My name is David. And I go, hey, my name is Pete. And turns out it was David Lynch.

That's so funny.

And. And I didn't care what the place looked like, you know, I didn't care how much it was. I needed a place. And so it turned out it was, like, about three blocks away from the school. Small little apartment. And there was a bunk bed, you know, and I was on top, David was on the bottom. And he had a. You know, some of the records. I had the records, but we were like, the odd couple.

Yeah.

You know, David was very neat, you know. Always wore a shirt, you know, very iron shirt with button, always buttoned up to the collar. And, you know, I was a slob. I had green teeth, you know, I had smoked so much, my hands were yellow from the stain of cigarettes. And.

Well, he smoked, didn't he?

Yeah, when we were both. But I was smoking, you know, because, you know, I was the artiste. I was gonna die by, you know, 30. I was smoking Gauloise.

Oh, wow.

And David was smoking Marlboros. But we always had to keep the window open because there was so much smoke. But I couldn't pay the rent. And so one day, as I was coming back to the apartment, David Dunn changed the lock on the door.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And the. That turns into a whole other venture with David. But, you know, many years later, David and I got together several times out here in la and we would open up many a bottle of wine and go over old times. But he ended up leaving the museum school, the Boston Museum School of Fine Arts, to go to Philadelphia. And that's where he started his first film, Race Ahead. And I left the school to start my first band.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

Which was the Hallucinations.

Yes.

Yeah, It's a great story. There's so many great stories. And I love all the John Lee Hooker stuff because that guy was great. And he was another guy that you built kind of a lifelong relationship with.

Oh, John Lee. Right up to the date. I liked money, I stayed in touch and I'll tell a story. Somebody says, you know, I tell this story a lot, but, you know, I just love it so much. And I kind of end the. The hooker chapter. I forced, you know, I talked my way into letting John have us, my band, the Lose Nation, open up for him.

Yeah, yeah.

And, you know, no pay, no nothing. We was just a great honor to open up because no one was coming to this club. And I. Where he was going.

Oh, he did one night and no one came to.

Well, yeah, he was booked there for several nights and I knew it was going to be pretty empty. And we filled the place for him and I wanted to spend time with John Lee. And I asked, you know, John, can I come by and visit you at the hotel? And, you know, he talked with a very bad stutter, but never when he was on stage, you know, but he would. And in the book, I didn't want to imitate it because I thought it would be insulting, you know, it just wouldn't be, you know, proper. But he, you know, I said, you know, John, I'd love to just, you know, hang out one afternoon. He said, yeah, come by Lenox Hotel, room 402. Come on by. Three o' clock, man, 2:30. I was waiting outside that door, you know, I couldn't believe it, you know, I was gonna spend an afternoon with one of my heroes. And I knock on the door, you know, come on in, door open. I open up the door. It's pitch black, except for the light of a tv. And it's one of those rooms where two beds are in it, like a Holiday Inn room. And on one bed, there's my hero with argyle socks pulled up to his knees. He's got boxer shorts on and he had durag on his head and wrap around dark sunglasses and on the night table, right by his bed was a big bottle of Valentine Scotch, pack of cool cigarettes, ashtray with a mountain of butts in the ashtray. And on the other bed was this beautiful. She was lying out across the bed. Beautiful curves. I mean. I mean, amazing shape. This beautiful, beautiful 335 Gibson guitar. And there it was, the quintessential bluesman. He traveled alone, he lived alone. And there was him on the bed, his guitar on the other bed. And room was dark except for the tv. Come on in. You know, I come in and pull up a chair. Pull up a chair. I'm sitting down. And now you have to remember, this is John Lee Hooker.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

You know, the man who's saying, I'm mad, I'm bad. I can kill you. I can cut you. You, I can hurt you. I'm mad, I'm bad. I'm like Jesse James, don't you mess with me, cuz I could do things to you. You playing him, man. And he would sing these, you know, songs. I'm the crawling king snake, baby, you know, and there he was, and I was looking at him, watching tv. And this man that's saying, I'm mad, I'm bad. I can get. He's watching Lassie.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And when he realizes that I realize that he's watching Lassie, he says, you know, Peter, that Lassie, he's one smart dog. And, you know, that broke the ice. And that's when I realized that he was one of the sweet, sweetest, most gentle and most sensitive people, you know, that one would want to meet. And, you know, these. Because he traveled alone most of the time. And he was the, you know, had this life of this, you know, real bluesman. Yeah, he'd go from city, he attracted these young women that were just kind of all in trouble in those days, you know, the Haight Asbury days, the runaways and, you know, the psychedelic drugs. And John would always befriend these ladies, you know, try to talk them, you know, give them money to get back home and, you know, talk if they're runaway. And he was just an amazing guy. And everybody who got into his inner circle remained friends with him throughout his life. And he was one, thanks to this one gentleman who owned this agency, Rosebud, that took over John's life, was able to get him the royalties. And John ended his life, you know, really very comfortable. Yeah, and he died very peacefully, you know.

Well, he also got, like, celebrated, you know, Santana and I think Van Morrison.

Right now it's put Together, you know, these great duet records.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

But John, as people don't know the beginning, he had the first and I think still the biggest blues hit ever recorded as, you know, a single, which was Boogie Children, recorded 1948. And everybody, B.B. king, Muddy Waters, Helen Wolf, they all wanted to have us hit as big as Boogie Children.

And didn't Boom Boom Boom go pretty good?

Oh, yeah, that came later on because the Animals.

Yeah, covered that. Yeah.

But John Lee and Boogie Children said, Mama told Papa, let the boy boogie because it's Venom. It's got to come out. And it's just him electric guitar and his foot.

It seems like a shame in the. In the big picture. I guess we should wrap it up.

[Marc Maron]

That, like, I felt.

[Peter Wolf]

Felt that after the hits, J. Giles had that with. Because, you know, Freeze frame. That record popped so fucking hard, man.

Well, here's what happened. We left Atlantic, and I describe, you know, in the book.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

That how, you know, you know, I'm acting as the band's manager, the Giles bands manager. And I'm trying to go to different record companies, get us re signed. After Lance, our contract ran out. We did 10 records. And I'm asking Ahmed if Ertegin's the president, if he's gonna sign us again. And so I'm meeting all these different record presidents. Finally just happened to be with this lawyer who was trying to help me out, and I was really depressed. I said, you know, I don't think anybody's gonna sign this. I think it's the end of the Jay Gosling.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And we're sitting in this booth in the Palm Steakhouse, and I'm having a drink, and this young fella comes up to the booth in one of these satin jackets, and he says, you Peter Wolf? Peter Wolf. And I go, yeah, how you doing? You know. And he goes, oh, man, I can't believe it. You know, I'm from Detroit. And, you know, man, I saw you like 10 times. Cold ball hall, man. You've been my favorite band. Oh, God damn, man. You know. Oh, thank you very much. And he goes, you know, I'm starting this new record company, and, you know, I was working with Basker Men, and we just got out of the meeting, man, if I could ever sign a band like Jay Giles and just the lawyer, like, eyes light up, you know, and you can see, you know, his eyes going like, you know, like a slot machine, you know, the numbers. And he says, wait a second. He said, what record company? Basker Menon. I never heard the name before. And it Turns out Basker Menon was the head, the CEO of EMI Worldwide.

Right.

The Beatles were on.

Yeah, sure.

And he was putting together this company. And there's this hilarious story where we call Basker Menon. Late at night, he comes, joins us at the steakhouse. And Basker and I go off to have a drink a thon. And the Jay Giles band ends up getting signed to EMI America. And there we had. Our first real. First record was Sanctuary, followed by Love Stings and then Freeze Frame. But the difference was we're in Atlantic, which was a great label. They really didn't, you know, they forgot about the J. Giles band. But EMI really wanted, you know, got behind us.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And that's when we really. Between that and then the TV and the whole arc of stuff, the band really, you know, after 17 and a half years of doing, I mean, literally one nighters after another, you know, throughout the country, driving around station wagons or, you know, those years before deregulations, you can get on a flight pretty cheap, you know, and you could fly around. We just did Non Stops the Gang. Sure. You know, and we played with men and our opening acts, where people, once we finally, you know, got, you know, with Freeze Frame and Centerfold and all that. And we were doing nothing but arenas and just before that, our opening acts of people like Tom Petty, Billy Joel, you two, U2. Yeah. And Eagles were another one. And, you know, a lot of acts, and we just remained friendly. At least I did friends with all these artists. And the last night I was, you know, doing a panel on a book and, you know, with Mike Campbell and just so it's, you know, I stay in touch with, you know, Bono and. Because all these people when you're coming up, you know, that's. You're the most vulnerable.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Peter Wolf]

And so I would go into the dressing room to the opening act and spend a lot of time getting to know those guys as Peter Green and Spencer when we were opening up, you know, Mick Fleetwood and all of that. So it all goes around. But those years were, you know, amazing years, which I tried to chronicle about the band, about music.

I just. I remember when Freeze Free Frame came out, I must have still been. What was that, 80.

Freeze Frame came out in 1982.

I was just so excited. I listened to that song over and over again.

And I knew, as, you know, being sort of the representative or the business representative of the band, I knew it was gonna be a big record because it was at the point when disco was finally over. Yeah. Dying off the charts and songs like I Love Rock and Roll by Joan Jett. And groups that like REO were coming on the charts and Seger was getting on the charts, and I knew, you know, for all these years that we were next.

Oh, good.

You know, I mean, I just felt it in my bones.

Well, I'm glad you had that.

Yeah, me too. And I'm glad it happened.

Do you keep in touch with Van?

I saw Van a couple of weeks ago, but he was out here in California. And before he came out, he and I spent every day. We had lunch and dinner. Oh, good. Still stay in touch with him.

Oh, good. Yeah. Cause I love that story. There's so many good stories. Obviously, we can't tell all of them. It'd be the whole book. But it was great. Really enjoyed it. Enjoyed talking to you. Thanks for coming by.

No, thanks for having me. And if Zinnia's got to come out, because that's what rock and roll is all about, do it too. And stay right through it. Always keep a smile on this Wolf goof Mama too, for telling. Life comes once. And when it comes, you gotta grab it fast. Cause you never know how long this life you live is going to last.

Yes, there's that dj.

[Marc Maron]

There you go. Peter Wolf kind of guy that, you know, could. We could keep talking for a very long time, but go. I would read the book. It's called Waiting on the Moon. It's available now. All right, hang out for a minute, folks. Hey, people, there's more music on the full Marin this week we've got another live music mixtape featuring performances here in the garage and the old garage by guests like Lucinda Williams, Tenacious D, Jay Mascis, and John Doe from X.

[Unknown]

You are the hole in my head. I am the pain in your neck. You are the lump in my throat.

[Peter Wolf]

I am.

[Unknown]

On the tip of your tongue. We are tangled, we are stolen. We are living with things are hidden. You are something in my eye. The shiver down your spine and you are the lick of my lips.

[Peter Wolf]

I am.

[Unknown]

On the tip of your tongue. We are tangled, we are stolen. We are buried up to our necks in sand. We are luck, we are fate. We are the feeling you get in the golden state. We are love, we are hate. We are the feeling I get when you walk away. Walk away.

[Marc Maron]

To get bonus episodes twice a week, sign up for the full Marin just go to the link in the episode description or go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast and here I'm just kind of this guitar. I laid down a thing, but I think I got to use separate amps to kind of. I don't know that you can't have both of these guitars coming out of the same amp. But I'm working on my leads, man. I'm trying to go into the major and minor and Mixolydian thing, okay? So, you know, I just want. I just want you to be. I want you to be there for me, learning. That's what I want.

[Peter Wolf]

Boomer lives monkey and Lavona got angels everywhere.