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- [00:00]
Mark Maron
Lock the gate. All right, let's do this. How are you? What the. What the Buddies? What the Nicks? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. It's called wtf? What's happening out There? How you holding up? Freaking out. Are you freaking out? Or are you like, yup, yup, this is what happens. What are you doing? Are you just fucking spiraling into fucking panic and fucking despair? Yeah, that's reasonable. But on another level, this is what happens. This is what happens. This is a rite of passage for authoritarian leaders to just go, bomb. I mean, look, there's no nukes in Iran. But if you remember leading up to the Iraq war, another unjust war, at least there was a process. Months and months of a congressional process to get approval, despite it being a bullshit undertaking and a bloody one. There was a process. This one, the process was. Oh, look, he posted on his thing. That's what authoritarians do. This is what it is. It's funny that a lot of the articles and stuff, you know, they don't talk about a constitutional crisis anymore because we've been in one since the beginning of his presidency. Pretty straightforward authoritarian action. This is the country's baptism into real authoritarianism. I mean, I've been saying this for months, but it's pretty clear now for you people hanging on to the idea of democratic hope that that's not where we're at. And that window is closing. Because with an action like this, look, I don't know if there will be reprisals. I don't know what the consequences are. All I know is that we have an authoritarian leader who's just gonna bomb shit when he wants to. I would argue that sending the troops into Los Angeles was more upsetting and more foretelling and in plain sight what we're headed towards as a country. Yeah, you know, just call the troops in to any American city without congressional approval, without the functioning of one of the three branches of government, without any checks or balances. Just fucking send the troops in, bomb, bomb the shit out of somebody with no process. Just a guy and his impulses and the fucking idiots he's surrounded by the sycophants, the collaborators, the straight up fascists. I mean, that's. I don't want to, you know, I don't want to fuck up anyone's Monday morning, but this is it. And for all the people that voted for him, just because, I don't know, I get a good feeling. I like his. I like his spunk. That's a double entendre. But you know, all these people that were just sort of like fighting for their free speech to say the R word to shit on disabilities. Yeah. Well, I hope this works out for you. All you people that are like, yeah, just. He's got a good, good. I like his. His moxie. I like that guy. Well, welcome to the new military dictatorship that puts a fucking nail in the coffin of democracy for good. Yeah, I hope that. I hope that's what you were hoping for. And all these anti woke comics are still doing, you know, like, I don't. I see them around still doing trans jokes. It's like, you won't. The trans people have no right to live the life they want. In some states it's legislated. In others it's just based in fear. Same with women. Anti Woke policy has crumbled any, destroyed any sort of pathway to try to give the vulnerable and the marginalized a leg up in the world. Under this umbrella of Anti woke, which was the big to do with all the comics. I'm anti woke. Well, no, now it's policy. And thousands of people are living in pain and fear and unable to live a free life in America and get the care that they need. Hope those jokes were worth it. I mean, when do you stop doing the jokes? I mean, you won. You broke it. You broke a lot of people. When do we stop doing the jokes? Yeah, all that DEI stuff, that threatening horrible sort of idea of trying to make democracy work, it's all gone. You did it. You did it, fellas. You did it with your. You helped out with those jokes. It's good, right? It's great. Here we are on the cusp of a military dictatorship with a rabid fascist culture war. Those jokes were worth it, though. It's going to be great, right, that you can say those things and so many people are compromised and in pain. Yeah. And all those jokes about immigrants. Yeah, it's awesome, right? You guys just seeing people ripped apart, seeing all that pain caused feels good for you guys, right? This is what you wanted. Half the population in fear and in pain and unable to live a free life in America. Just so you guys aren't uncomfortable with people that are different from you. Awesome. Anyway, Good morning. Good morning. Today on the show, I talked to Jordan Klepper. He's the co host and contributor on the Daily Show. He's known for his finger on the pole segments where he goes out in the field. He's done several TDS Presents specials for Comedy Central and his latest is called Jordan Fingers, the Pulse Maga, the the Next Generation. He does a good job with it and I kind of got into a little bit of a deeper conversation with him about what's happening. And you know, certainly in light of this unconstitutional act of war by our authoritarian leader, I don't know if it'll play the same way, but we talked about it. This episode is sponsored by Squarespace. When you run your own website like we do, life is easier. Thanks to Squarespace. We never have to worry about updating the site or dealing with bugs. Squarespace handles all of that. Plus, Squarespace gives you everything you need to offer services and get paid all in one place. From consultations to events and experiences. Showcase your offerings with a customizable website designed to attract clients and and grow your business. You'll get paid on time with professional invoices and online payments. Plus streamline your workflow with built in appointment scheduling and email marketing tools. And with blueprint AI, Squarespace helps you design a fully custom website in just a few steps. Check out wtfpod.com to see a site powered by Squarespace. Then head to squarespace.com wtf for a free trial. And then when you're all set to launch your new site, use offer code WTF to to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com WTF offer code WTF oh my God. And then you got this whole Christian nation business. Can you think of something more boring than that? Oh my God. Christian rock, Christian jazz, Christian movies. Oh, all the amazing things about the creativity of the human spirit shut down. All the beautiful woke stuff that made culture and creativity interesting and enlightening being just shut down. And again, I just really want to reach out to those anti woke comics who are at the forefront of of pushing this new culture through. Hope it was worth it. Now everybody's got to be boring like you. So you're comfortable. Next week. Monday's guest is Mariska Hargitay. She directed a new HBO documentary called My Mom Jane which is awesome. It's a spectacular documentary. You can watch it on Mac starting this Friday, June 27th. And I highly recommend recommend you do. Then you can hear me and Mariska talk about it next week. Okay, that's happening. I went to a screening of the film that I am the star of last night, In Memoriam. I think I've talked a bit about that here. Sharon Stone was there sitting next to me. Kit was on the other side. That was exciting. But I got to Be honest with you. I hope the film finds a home because it's a very touching film. And I'm not like the kind of guy. The projects I'm involved with, oddly, because, you know, who I am in terms of how I think and how I feel and the intensity of it, and sometimes it's heavy. And I just seem to be involved with a couple of projects. Three, actually. Maybe four. Huh. In my special, too. Five. You know, a lot of things going on for me at the end of democracy. Not going to personalize it, though. You know, comes when it comes, right? Your moment and the end of freedom. But. But the movie In Memoriam, I get very focused on watching myself, and I think I did a pretty good job with this thing. But it's incredibly moving. I mean, it's a real. It's funny, but there's that balance of humor and sort of. I wouldn't say tragedy, but. Yeah. I mean. But no life. You know, the painful side of life. You know, it's a guy who has cancer who decides that he's gonna not get treatment so he can try to get into the In Memoriam montage at the Oscars. He's an actor that might not have the resume for it, but through the course of that, he develops a relationship with a daughter that he had no relationship with. And I gotta be honest, the story itself and the fact that I did okay really delivers this very well. Weighty, but beautiful story about. About being human, about surrendering to love, finding something to live for. And it's. I'm not a big. I'm not a guy who talks about storytelling a lot when people sort of say storytelling is what we have and it. It's what makes us human. And it. It turns out it's. It's kind of true. You know, the same thing with Stick. You know, whatever you think of that show, it's. It's. It's got a lot of heart. And it's about, you know, a found family of people that have their own problems and their problems together, overcoming obstacles and, you know, through, you know, struggle and kindness and moving through, you know, heavy feelings and sadness and trauma and whatever. But these are. They're probably kind of needed now. I find myself watching a lot more movies that sort of elevate the human spirit, even if they're dark. I just rewatched Succession, but. But, you know, there's something to it, because we're certainly not getting reconnected with our humanity by looking at our phone or seeing what's going on in the world. And many of us don't spend time with other people in terms of really kind of locking in and feeling that. So sometimes storytelling, if it's done well, is. Is a way to. To reconnect with your humanness and humanity in general. And I'm doing the Bad guys. You know, that's a cartoon and that's, you know, fun for the kids. And the Bruce Springsteen movie, which is about an artistic journey through personal darkness. And then my special in August, which runs the full spectrum of political, personal elevation of the human spirit from over trauma and grief. Yeah. I mean, this is what I have and this is what I'm taking in, and I guess it's okay. Well, I hope you're hanging in there, and I think you'll enjoy this talk with Jordan. I mean, it's pretty upbeat, but pretty heavy. His latest TDS Presents special MAGA the Next Generation is available on Paramount plus Comedy Central and on YouTube. And this is me talking and meeting for the first time, Jordan Klepper. I'm getting a lot of congrats on good run.
- [13:56]
Jordan Klepper
Right.
- [13:57]
Mark Maron
But we live in a culture where nobody quits anything if they can keep going. Because I have to wrestle with this thing. I mean, I think we've done great work, but there is something about stopping that's rather dramatic.
- [14:09]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah.
- [14:11]
Mark Maron
But it's a genuine congrats on a good run.
- [14:14]
Jordan Klepper
It's a genuine congrats. It is funny even walking up here. Yes. It's like, I don't want to treat this like it's a funeral. Like something that's dying. I heard you say, like, it's okay to end things. So when you announced it, I come from the Chicago world, and one of the wisest Chicago improvisers, Noah Gregoropoulos, used to talk about in terms of relationships, he was like, there's too much drama put on the end of a relationship and it being seen in a negative light. And he refused to look at those. He was like, these things end. They're beautiful parts of your life. Why can't we celebrate those elements within that?
- [14:48]
Mark Maron
Sure. And that's the pitch you have for the person you've just hurt.
- [14:51]
Jordan Klepper
Exactly. Yes. So this is. I'm trying to be kind to you here, Mark. You ended failure. The fact that you don't have a podcast means you're no longer culturally relevant. And so congratulations on your death in the industry.
- [15:02]
Mark Maron
I appreciate that. And all those thousands and thousands of people that relied on me twice a week to keep them afloat are now going to resent me. And think I'm an asshole for walking out on them.
- [15:13]
Jordan Klepper
You left them. Where will they get content now, Mark?
- [15:17]
Mark Maron
Well, that is the primary burden of it is that, you know, 80%, you know, look, I'm okay. We've interviewed everybody, everybody. And also there's, we live in a, a culture of yammering and there's just, it's just non stop talking everywhere. It's just crazy. It's crazy. Like I don't know what my algorithm does, but, you know, within a few reels it's like three to four white dudes behind mics talking about, you know, shitting their pants as adults, you know, and laughing about you know, come and this, that and the other thing. Yeah, well, that's, that's where we live. It's just a, an entire country full of amateur afternoon drive time radio jocks.
- [16:00]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah. Do you feel responsible for making it look so easy? Actually, if I'm being even more. I don't want to be probing. This is your world as you slowly die in this industry.
- [16:13]
Mark Maron
Yeah. I trust your instincts. So you go ahead and probe.
- [16:16]
Jordan Klepper
Well, I feel like a lot of people were talking about you ending and they, and they are pointing out like your, your natural curiosity.
- [16:24]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [16:25]
Jordan Klepper
That by all accounts you're not going into this. You didn't go into this as a way, as a, as a platform. You went into it as a, as a curiosity to find out things about.
- [16:33]
Mark Maron
People and also to, you know, to kind of reintroduce myself into the world and, or maybe even for the first time. Yeah, it was a personal kind of desperation even to connect. There was no way to make money, so. But yeah, I mean, and then the follow up question is, where are you going to put that curiosity now?
- [16:55]
Jordan Klepper
Well, that and also, how do you see, how do you see that? Did that evolve? Did it devolve for me, for the media industry?
- [17:03]
Mark Maron
Well, I mean, yeah, I think it obviously evolved, but not unlike anything. It's almost like. What's a good analogy is like, how do you like the introduction of photography? You know, at the beginning of photography it was clunky. You know, the exposure took a long time and you know, a lot of. But there was only a few people doing it.
- [17:24]
Jordan Klepper
Right.
- [17:25]
Mark Maron
And then at some point it's, it's declared on and it's arguable an art. Right. So you have art photography and you have documentary photography and there are, there's a criteria and a context for which to appreciate that in art history. So at the point where everyone can own a fucking camera, how do you maintain the. The context of what is good and what is art if everyone can fucking do it? And on that level, how do you protect the bar from lowering to a point where everyone just gets used to a certain thing that kind of goes in and. And triggers a little feeling or this, that and the other thing? So. So in a world where everyone's got a fucking camera and everyone's got a fucking microphone, the argument there would be like, we did this great work. There's no reason we can go on. I mean, the medium has shifted, the finances have shifted. But I possess what I possess. My producer possesses what he possesses. But there comes a point where there's diminishing returns in terms of relevance, uniqueness. I think it'll always be unique. And also the fact that it's not easy and we put a lot into it. And my producer works in a very specific way. And we do audio and we, you know, we really craft these things. And, you know, at some point, after 16 years is a good example, you know, someone's gonna go, like, I think I'm done. Yeah, there's a big chunk of life here.
- [18:51]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah.
- [18:51]
Mark Maron
And we've got this great catalog and we did some amazing things and we spawned, you know, I think what. What became, I think my major contribution is a certain style of honest engagement on the other side of that. We've unleashed an evil on the world.
- [19:07]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah. I think if I look at this, like, social media, you're sort of the Arab Spring of social media. You came along at the point where it's like, oh, this can be used for good as a way to further humanity. And now we have whatever X has become as a way to take down and topple governments.
- [19:24]
Mark Maron
That's right. And also, arguably, Arab Spring not a success, really.
- [19:31]
Jordan Klepper
I guess. Yeah. If we're gonna take the metaphor all the way. Like, congratulations, you did what you could. You did what you could. It's interesting. We'll talk about. In the history books. Perhaps not kindly.
- [19:42]
Mark Maron
That's the other thing. I mean, what is. You know, when all these people, you know, especially progressives who talk about that. Well, history will show. It's like, not if it gets hijacked and rewritten.
- [19:53]
Jordan Klepper
You gotta talk to the people writing the history.
- [19:55]
Mark Maron
That's right.
- [19:56]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah. And there's only. There's some people are really talking about changing the books and figuring out how to morph that mystery.
- [20:01]
Mark Maron
Exactly. Every time I hear that, like, the history books. Well, I'm like, which books are you talking about? The ones that are gonna be rewritten or diminished or disappeared. The new history.
- [20:11]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah, the new history. Talk to the Native Americans. Okay. How has that history been so well articulated over the course of the last hundred years?
- [20:18]
Mark Maron
Well, yeah, and just the fact that you're not teaching black history in schools. But you know, on the argument of dei, I mean, it's. It's too crazy before in terms of like, all of it happening at once. Like, I did a bit in my special. It's like, how do you even protest? Do you just make a sign that says, please just stop. This is crazy.
- [20:40]
Jordan Klepper
Slow down, Please, please.
- [20:41]
Mark Maron
Okay, I just woke up.
- [20:45]
Jordan Klepper
Can we all just take a breather, please? Count to 10 to then have a response.
- [20:50]
Mark Maron
Oh, my God. But I guess that's part of the whole plan. But I don't know what's going on at the Daily show in terms of how this is discussed. You know, at what point do we stop talking about this as sort of a two party democratic problem and just address the fact that there's an authoritarian coup happening and culture is becoming fascist? When does that language change?
- [21:12]
Jordan Klepper
Like, when do we call it what we see as we see it? I mean, I think at the Daily show, we'd like to think we're doing that.
- [21:17]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [21:17]
Jordan Klepper
I mean, we're always struggling with the fact that our job is to find whatever comedy we can around that.
- [21:23]
Mark Maron
Sure.
- [21:23]
Jordan Klepper
And it's a fire hose of information.
- [21:26]
Mark Maron
Right.
- [21:27]
Jordan Klepper
I think the struggle I sometimes have when we approach it is like the game plan, the authoritarian game plan is the fire hose of bullshit. The let's do all this to distract you from the dark shit that's happening underneath it. Right. Like, we can have an Elon fight that's happening and not talk about the big beautiful build and what it's pulling away from.
- [21:45]
Mark Maron
And also. But like, why doesn't. Why don't you have a segment every, you know, week on what Russ Vaught is doing?
- [21:52]
Jordan Klepper
Well, we gotta sell Pepsi. You know, Mark, let me tell you, as much as people love good Russ Vought content, it's cable TV and you got advertising. But I mean, I do think from a creative standpoint that is beyond the advertising element is a question we have every fricking week. Like, we can put together the saddest, darkest fucking show you could possibly imagine almost every single day. And it's curious now because the setup we have, we have John on Monday and then one of us takes the rest of the week. Yeah, you kind of are working in concert with like, you know, curating the vibe of a week. Yeah, it's Not. It's all. It's not all just about the yucks or the darkness, but it's like, John can make an argument on Monday. Let's have like an editorial argument.
- [22:40]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [22:40]
Jordan Klepper
And then let's go more news of the day. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, with some potential second acts that have deeper dives and arguments.
- [22:46]
Mark Maron
Right.
- [22:47]
Jordan Klepper
But also sometimes we've had two big days that have gone way in on Elon that's talked about USAID and how they've ripped and people are dying.
- [22:56]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [22:57]
Jordan Klepper
And that's hard on an audience. We still got an audience there who's telling us how they feel. This audience feels. They're raw.
- [23:03]
Mark Maron
No, I know. I was performing on the road for a year and a half and I went out of my way because it did feel like community service after a certain point. Because all you can do is contextualize. There's no, you know, you can't be up there going, well, here are the solutions.
- [23:18]
Jordan Klepper
Right.
- [23:18]
Mark Maron
I mean, you can blame the Democrats, you can blame whatever. But, you know, this is a full court press of authoritarian bullshit that's very well orchestrated and it's being done very intentionally. And so little of it has to do with Trump because he's a dumb shit. Like, there's never.
- [23:35]
Jordan Klepper
He's a bulldozer and they're just walking by. That's right.
- [23:37]
Mark Maron
But he's like, you know, he's a no new kind of puppet. He's a puppet in the sense that, like, he. All he wants to do, I think, ultimately is be the only important person in the world and have all the money and they're just going to let him do that and he'll. And then give him. Here, say this, you know, do the. These are the executive orders. Like those. Like there's hundreds of executive orders. You think he even knows?
- [23:59]
Jordan Klepper
No, no.
- [24:01]
Mark Maron
When you're dealing with a situation where you can't provide a solution, you can't provide a way of looking at it that is educational and enlightening. Funny, you know, but it really becomes this sort of. This thing where it's sort of like. Like there are moments where I'm like, you know, I don't think these snark bullets are going to really pierce the problem.
- [24:24]
Jordan Klepper
Right.
- [24:25]
Mark Maron
You know, it doesn't normalize it. It does give people a little breathing room and enforces a point of view. But. But ultimately we've got to get them out in the streets.
- [24:36]
Jordan Klepper
Well, yeah, I don't. I think, yeah. Like, people approaching it like, is this the solution? Do you have the solution? The answer to that is no, we do not. It's not an activist show. We don't provide solutions. We provide comedy and context through our own outrage and bullshit.
- [24:54]
Mark Maron
Detectives and informa. And information.
- [24:55]
Jordan Klepper
And information. Right. Ways in which to draw attention towards stuff. I got to do specials on Russian interference in the election. What was happening in Estonia. In a world where you're like not a lot of people talking about Estonian politics or Hungarian politics, I don't think.
- [25:09]
Mark Maron
They'Re talking about much of anything. And I think they're, they're totally reactive day to day on this or that. And what was interesting about the new special, I think it's the newest one, the Maga Next Generation. Well, you know, like I really wasn't hip to Charlie Kirk. I mean I kind of knew the name, but after I watched it, my phone must have been listening. So now I'm getting a lot of Charlie Kirk.
- [25:31]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah, you're welcome.
- [25:34]
Mark Maron
But I mean when you see that side's youth, you know, versus whatever the left youth movement is, which is, you know, mostly focused on Palestine. But do you. Because my girlfriend was like, you know, eventually they'll grow out of it. Like when you see when you're watching these two young women who are sort of shallowly kind of regurgitating talking points, do you think that like, maybe, maybe it's a phase or that the fix is in?
- [26:07]
Jordan Klepper
Well, I think there's a potential for it to be a phase. I think I have true empathy for those 22 year olds, those 18 year olds. I see myself in that. I think they are shallowly just repeating the things they've heard. Now where I get worried is the 30 year olds who are preying on the 20 year olds. It is the Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk comes to a campus and you remember what it's like on a campus. People are excited. They're looking for, for energy, for vibes, community and community they want. Community and purpose. It's what I still want. I still fucking searching for. Every single day on a campus, Charlie Kirk shows up and it's a scene. And what he has beyond it being a scene and a community and purpose. He's got free shit that he's handing out to people.
- [26:48]
Mark Maron
Hats.
- [26:49]
Jordan Klepper
He's got hats. And suddenly you put that on and you control somebody or at least look like you're part of a group. He's online. These kids have seen him constantly. They're in, he's in their feed.
- [26:59]
Mark Maron
His bid is fighting, debating.
- [27:01]
Jordan Klepper
His bid is debate. Yeah, his bid is debating kids on campus. Right. He Gets plenty of clicks for that. People are showing up to his events because one, they want to see this thing they've seen online or they want to engage with him. I think a little bit of the trick that he pulled is you have a lot of conservatives showing up, you have a lot of moderates who just want to show up and see what the thing is. Then you have a handful of liberals who show up who want to fight him. Now what I got is a lot of young, somewhat naive conservative kids who were shocked at what they saw. They were like, I've heard about the illogical, angry, hysterical left and I didn't believe it until I saw it here. Like, oh, this is part of the trick. It's not only Charlie Kirk trying to sell you the MAGA spirit, he's also trying to put on a show and sucker young left wing kids to come up, yell at him where he can calmly act like the adult in the room. Put on a show of left wing hysteria for these other minds who are watching that and walk away thinking, I don't know, that seems like the more rational, level headed person is this 30 year old was being funded by a bunch of old millionaires to give these.
- [28:05]
Mark Maron
Talking points to radicalize college campuses.
- [28:08]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah, and I think that's where I see that taking hold. Because these kids, I don't see them drawn inherently to a MAGA ideology or a right wing ideology. I see them drawn to whatever fucking works. And in the attention economy, they're giving a pathway. Yeah, it's a devious one and I'm pretty cynical about what it is. But it's effective in this space. Sure, the left has a harder time negotiating that space. And not that they should come at it from a point of like propaganda or winning over these minds, but they should be able to articulate what is compelling about a vision. Because inherently Charlie Kirk ain't the coolest thing on a fucking college campus.
- [28:42]
Mark Maron
Well, no, it's like, you know, and I see all these people like they are Republican youth or the new punk rock or we're gonna make it hot. I'm like, good luck. You know, Meanwhile you've got all these 30 year old right wing guys, you know, doing jaw exercises and getting Turkish hair surgery or shaving their eyebrows off. Like, that's hot. Yeah, you're gonna, that'll give you game.
- [29:07]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah, there's, there's such an insecure masculinity that's on the right that has been.
- [29:10]
Mark Maron
Lifted up wild in that it is insecure. And the, the, the solution that they're providing for, to, to, you know, lifestyle solutions. They're providing to sort of ease that insecurity. Makes them, you know, bigger clowns.
- [29:24]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah.
- [29:25]
Mark Maron
And, and it, it's not going to serve them unless they really are able to brainwash all women completely.
- [29:31]
Jordan Klepper
Yes, exactly.
- [29:33]
Mark Maron
And they're working on that. I mean, I don't know how the trad wife business is selling. I don't. Do you looked into that?
- [29:40]
Jordan Klepper
If you have any. I mean I would invest in it right now. It feels like I'd put money on it right now because well, I went to Texas A and M and there definitely was a, there's a Christian element to that school. And they, they talk about traditional values. The thing that I find that I can relate to from it, if not traditional values. Like there was, there was a study about what algorithms were feeding kids and a lot of it was Andrew Tate and far right, uber masculinity stuff. This, this Dublin study that like, what if we create a generic 16 year old?
- [30:10]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [30:10]
Jordan Klepper
What do we sell them? And, and they sell all this toxic masculinity. But the other thing that they were selling were things like neo stoicism.
- [30:18]
Mark Maron
Oh yeah. I know a guy that's into that.
- [30:20]
Jordan Klepper
See, I, I, I, I'm one of the guys who are somewhat into stoicism. Ryan Holiday, smart guy in stoicism. He articulate, articulates Seneca, Marcus Aurelius. And at its core what he's articulating is like a pretty moral blueprint for how to succeed. Self improvement, if you will. And I think like selling self improvement to young kids is something that they will fucking buy. Now some of that is tied to these old weird traditional values.
- [30:47]
Mark Maron
That's interesting because it used to be, you know, I think there was a time where youth culture did not need self improvement. That it was like music exploration, you know, finding things that were kind of would turn you on in terms of like literature or art or there was a freedom of mind. But now I guess they're all floating and all the music is kind of the same. And now these guys come on campus with an ideology. They're like, I can talk these things. And every day I think about what made me, what I was in terms of what my brain is and what was appealing to me. And I was growing up in sort of the crashing wave of the 60s and mid 70s and it was all about like, you know, kind of blow your mind with shit that is given to us by, you know, inspired weirdos.
- [31:37]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah.
- [31:38]
Mark Maron
And now they're just trying to, you Know, diminish all the weirdos and make freaks.
- [31:43]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah.
- [31:43]
Mark Maron
I mean, weirdos are better than freaks.
- [31:45]
Jordan Klepper
Weirdos are definitely better than freaks.
- [31:47]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [31:47]
Jordan Klepper
You probably also had the invitation to spend more time with your own thoughts and other folks.
- [31:51]
Mark Maron
I think, like, these phones.
- [31:53]
Jordan Klepper
You didn't have phones. And I hate to be that guy. But, like, I remember when I was doing a show, like, when I was hosting a show, I got so caught up in waking up and immediately looking at my phone, looking at the news, and I was like, can't. I have no. I'm letting somebody else's opinion get in before I even have my own. And I'm like, I know better. I'm smart enough not to do this if I'm 18, to not have a moment of silence to figure out what the fuck I care about. That's a dangerous space.
- [32:19]
Mark Maron
It is. And so this is good. So there's no hope, really?
- [32:23]
Jordan Klepper
There's really no hope. There's. Come on, find the weirdos. You know, you bring up. I mean, I know how much you love music. Like, there's this conversation around, like, where are these folks on the left? Who are these masculine men on the left that kids can look up to? And I think there are compelling, interesting figures there, I think. Do you know the band Idols? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, the band Idols. Like, I think there's a punk rock element that still exists that is still progressive, kind, masculine, violent, sincere, like, gender all over the place in a way that is compelling. Young, I think, evocative for young kids that the left still doesn't see as, like, an extension of them.
- [33:06]
Mark Maron
But I think that when we talk about this, and I said it on stage to a degree, there is no organized left.
- [33:13]
Jordan Klepper
Yes.
- [33:14]
Mark Maron
There's no foundational ideology that there is, and Bernie speaks it. That's it. I mean, if you can teach kids how to care about other people and create a living wage and healthcare for everyone, that is the practical left. All the other stuff around the left are boutique issues that make people feel better about themselves. Yeah, right.
- [33:37]
Jordan Klepper
Spot on.
- [33:38]
Mark Maron
So without the organization, there's no, you know, people. Not sadly. I mean, people who are, you know, lefty or Democrats or whatever. A lot of us are just sort of like. We kind of just want to live our lives where, okay, we can make decisions for ourselves and we care about other people. We take care of what we can. We send some money to whoever, and, you know, we hope it doesn't get too shitty, because then, you know, our grandpas are gonna have to go protest like they did in the 60s?
- [34:06]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah.
- [34:07]
Mark Maron
Cause I'm not going out there.
- [34:08]
Jordan Klepper
No. I'm too fucking tired.
- [34:11]
Mark Maron
So, like, you know, when. When we talk about this idea that there is some answer to them, I mean, we tried that with Air America. You can't. You know, it's. There should be a whole series of jokes around. Like, okay, there are three leftists sitting in a room, and there's one problem, you know, like.
- [34:29]
Jordan Klepper
Right.
- [34:30]
Mark Maron
So you can't wrangle that shit because, you know, within seconds, it just becomes an insulated, arguing culture. Yeah, but debate is supposed to be part of it.
- [34:40]
Jordan Klepper
Debate is supposed to be a part.
- [34:41]
Mark Maron
Of it, but whatever Charlie Kirk's doing on campus is not the nature of debate. That's a trick. And all these kids are. I saw Cedar go at them and he did a good job because they're relatively uninformed. And if they are informed, it's with completely ideologically bent, mostly with enough information that is correct, but the core of it is usually not.
- [35:05]
Jordan Klepper
Yes, but debate is a part of it. But the problem is the way we ingest this debate is all performance. And it's what I'm doing out there. I'm not trying to change people's minds. I'm trying to find hypocrisy and comedy and bullshit that is out there. But I think, like, what you see what Charlie Kirk is doing, What Even some of the podcasts that are attempting to put two sides against one another, like, inherently, the medium is performance, and the only way that you get engagement is to win, not to find some. I did a podcast with Governor John Kasich where he tried to find middle ground. Nobody gave a shit about that podcast. There's nothing there that works within that medium. And so I think, like, I think debate has always been a part of what the Democrats want. It's what healthy discourse has. But there's no place for that in an online world. That I think.
- [35:56]
Mark Maron
But also in a black and white world.
- [35:58]
Jordan Klepper
Yes.
- [35:58]
Mark Maron
That there's winners and losers, and that's it. The public discourse is broken down. And what determines what winning is and what it isn't is a whole other thing. But the more we talk about it, I just realized that, you know, if you can convince enough kids that weirdos are not to be tolerated, then, you know, where do you go from there? And I just feel like we're on the precipice of, you know, stifling, you know, immigrant voices, marginalized voices, you know, art in general as being relevant that, you know, it just. We're in we're gonna end up in this very sort of narrow space. It's very myopic, you know, it just feels like whatever freedom of speech that all these fucking libertarian douchebags were yelling about was just the ability to tell everyone else to shut the fuck up and scare them into doing it. They don't even know they're servicing that anyway.
- [36:54]
Jordan Klepper
No, it's good, man. I would say where I do find a little bit of hope is all of these things scare me. And we joke about there being no hope, and I am not a hopeful person. But with these kids that I talked to, the cruelty wasn't there. My prejudiced mind walked into a college campus thinking like, all of these talking points from the right will be there, as well as the cruelest elements of the MAGA talking points, and that wasn't there. I would ask them about gay rights, I'd ask them about immigration and what have you, and they never took the bait. Now that doesn't mean they won't take the bait. That doesn't mean they're a year and a half from taking the bait. But I was like, oh, this is such a learned behavior that that isn't there in that 18 year old kid. There is a sweetness and a kindness who's drawn towards the attention and the talking points right now, but they're not necessarily drawn to the cruelty yet. And that gave me a tiny, tiny glimmer of hope that cruelty is not embedded into these kids.
- [37:50]
Mark Maron
Yeah, I was working on this joke that it's not. I can never. I don't even know how to say it about, you know, when you have this division, that there's. It's a small leap from fuck all of them to kill all of them. All it requires is permission and, you know, and a presidential pardon is pretty good incentive. Sorry. See, it's not funny.
- [38:10]
Jordan Klepper
It's not.
- [38:10]
Mark Maron
It's.
- [38:11]
Jordan Klepper
But it's real, Mark. It's important. This is what. So you're quitting podcasting to go back into comedy, is that right? Jesus.
- [38:17]
Mark Maron
No, I never left comedy.
- [38:19]
Jordan Klepper
Well, it feels like maybe stick this. Maybe keep this podcast thing for a little longer.
- [38:22]
Mark Maron
Well, we'll see where I show up. You know, it's just. It's a matter of. There is part of me that feels that there's an essential part of the conversation that I could fill, but to be responsible for that and also then to, you know, we've been very careful to keep it, you know, emotional and personal and about, you know, people, you know, striving to do creative Things and trying to sort of, you know, figure out how to live and react in this world. But, you know, once you enter the political conversation, then you. You can't get out. And I don't know if it really means enough to just become that, because that's even more limiting. The one thing I can say about the way we did it was that it was all possibility. But once you start, there's no way. And I did political talk for a year and a half, two years. There's no way that you can not be puppet to the talking points. There's just no way. You know, whatever you think you're thinking on your own, you're not. It's part of whatever that agenda is, and you can't get out from under it, no matter how much of an independent thinker you are, because you're servicing that. And I'm not saying it's not righteous.
- [39:41]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah.
- [39:42]
Mark Maron
But is it what you want to sacrifice your life for, Mark?
- [39:46]
Jordan Klepper
You're saying I have no opportunities outside of this political space? Is that what you're doing? You brought me all the way out here to tell me that?
- [39:52]
Mark Maron
I thought you didn't. You. Weren't you into clowning or something?
- [39:55]
Jordan Klepper
Improv. Improv, Mark. Improv.
- [39:59]
Mark Maron
You didn't go to the Barnum and Bailey School for clowning?
- [40:02]
Jordan Klepper
It's close. It's called the Improv Olympic. And we pretend to ride elephants. There's no actual elephants there.
- [40:07]
Mark Maron
But. Wait, where. Where'd you come from? What. What is Klepper?
- [40:11]
Jordan Klepper
What is.
- [40:12]
Mark Maron
What is that?
- [40:12]
Jordan Klepper
Well, like, that far back.
- [40:13]
Mark Maron
Yeah, I. It's an interesting name.
- [40:15]
Jordan Klepper
I think it's Dutch.
- [40:16]
Mark Maron
Look at you. Dutch.
- [40:17]
Jordan Klepper
I know, right? A Lakey Dutch. I got some Dutch. I got some Irish. I got some German in there.
- [40:22]
Mark Maron
So it's all that. So you're real Midwest?
- [40:25]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah, I'm a Michigan kid. And then goes through Chicago and then moves to New York about 15 years ago.
- [40:32]
Mark Maron
So you come from the Scandinavian farmers that they tried to get to farm that horrible land up there?
- [40:37]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah, basically, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a land of farmers and carpenters. Yeah, I got some Quakers all the way down.
- [40:43]
Mark Maron
Oh, wow.
- [40:44]
Jordan Klepper
I thought I was a direct descendant of the guy who started the Quakers. George Fox.
- [40:48]
Mark Maron
Yeah. Are you.
- [40:48]
Jordan Klepper
There's a lot. Well, there's a lot of George Foxes in my family, and that's what I was always told. And then I did some research, and he never had kids, so that. That kind of snips it in the bud.
- [40:56]
Mark Maron
The religious leader with no kids. That's a Guy with vision. If only they all thought that way.
- [41:03]
Jordan Klepper
It stops here. I can get behind that, honestly. The Quaker's got a lot of good ideas.
- [41:08]
Mark Maron
Yeah, that's what I hear they do.
- [41:10]
Jordan Klepper
Most of their ideas is you figure out your own ideas.
- [41:12]
Mark Maron
Yeah. Well, that's good.
- [41:14]
Jordan Klepper
That's a good idea. I think Quakerism, it's sort of like Western Buddhism. Just go into a room and you sit there for a while and if you have something important to say, you share it.
- [41:21]
Mark Maron
Yeah. And see how that goes.
- [41:23]
Jordan Klepper
Good luck. Maybe we show up for a protest every now and then.
- [41:27]
Mark Maron
Well, now. But that all. Even that concept's gone sour with social media.
- [41:30]
Jordan Klepper
Oh, yeah.
- [41:31]
Mark Maron
This is just a never ending sharing and looking for a fight. Looking for a fight. But do you have actual Dutch relatives?
- [41:39]
Jordan Klepper
Not that I have a connection to. I think, like, I think we've been here for a couple hundred years. And so I have a little bit of Irish and English folks who are there.
- [41:47]
Mark Maron
Oh, they came through Michigan or Chicago.
- [41:49]
Jordan Klepper
They came through. Yeah. I think they. They all. They basically they all ended up in. In southwest Michigan, which is sort of where the Klepper clan has existed. So you got some Dutch up there, by the way.
- [41:59]
Mark Maron
Are they still there?
- [42:00]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah, most of them are there.
- [42:01]
Mark Maron
So how's Michigan doing? When you go Michigan?
- [42:04]
Jordan Klepper
I. I still got a lot of love. I'm from. From Kalamazoo. I mean, Michigan has an interesting weird purple state.
- [42:08]
Mark Maron
Guitars.
- [42:08]
Jordan Klepper
There's guitars. Gibson.
- [42:09]
Mark Maron
That's Gibson Kalamazoo, man.
- [42:11]
Jordan Klepper
Oh, my gosh. The originals. Derek Jeter.
- [42:13]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [42:14]
Jordan Klepper
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [42:15]
Mark Maron
Good.
- [42:15]
Jordan Klepper
They got a Gibson factory downtown still. Well, they still have the old. There's an old pillar that I think they're trying to turn into a hard rock cafe.
- [42:26]
Mark Maron
So I think that most of the acoustics were made in Kalamazoo and then I think the electrics. I know there's a Nashville factory.
- [42:34]
Jordan Klepper
Yes.
- [42:34]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [42:35]
Jordan Klepper
I think a company came in, maybe Heritage Guitars came into Kalamazoo to try to kind of bring some of that energy back.
- [42:41]
Mark Maron
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know.
- [42:43]
Jordan Klepper
There's a lot of Gibson pride in Kalamazoo.
- [42:45]
Mark Maron
Well, there should be.
- [42:46]
Jordan Klepper
Like, there's not a lot of. Not a lot of music culture in Kalamazoo anymore. Now outside the Verb Pipe, we still talk about the Verve pipe.
- [42:53]
Mark Maron
Oh, they were good.
- [42:53]
Jordan Klepper
They were good. I grew up working the Taste of Kalamazoo because my uncle ran it and we'd always had bands come through. And the Verb Pipe came through every year. And they played that song, Freshman.
- [43:04]
Mark Maron
Every year.
- [43:05]
Jordan Klepper
Every year. Every year. This before it even became a hit.
- [43:07]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [43:08]
Jordan Klepper
And then it became a hit. Then it came back and kept playing it every year.
- [43:10]
Mark Maron
But you felt part of it.
- [43:11]
Jordan Klepper
I'm part of it.
- [43:12]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [43:12]
Jordan Klepper
I love it.
- [43:13]
Mark Maron
They were nice enough to come.
- [43:14]
Jordan Klepper
They were nice enough to come. They're one of me. I grew up and then I listened to that song as an adult. I realized it's about abortion, I believe.
- [43:20]
Mark Maron
Really?
- [43:20]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah. So who knew?
- [43:22]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [43:22]
Jordan Klepper
I thought I had a catchy which.
- [43:23]
Mark Maron
Side of it, I think.
- [43:25]
Jordan Klepper
Oh, boy. I think a fairly nuanced college perspective around, you know, like, abortion. My girl, like, my girl went through some tragedy, but I'm here to support her. And I look back on that with a little bit of malaise and melancholy.
- [43:39]
Mark Maron
Oh, okay. So they stayed out of the fray, I think.
- [43:41]
Jordan Klepper
So there's not a lot of money if you're. If you're writing songs. If you're just writing abortion songs. As a Kalamazoo band. That's a real type.
- [43:51]
Mark Maron
No. No pro abortion anthems out of Kalamazoo.
- [43:55]
Jordan Klepper
It's hard. Yeah. It's good work if you can get it.
- [43:58]
Mark Maron
But did you. Were you aware of politics growing up?
- [44:00]
Jordan Klepper
Somewhat. I was. You know, parents are, like, I would say, moderate to. Right.
- [44:05]
Mark Maron
Growing up, what do they do?
- [44:07]
Jordan Klepper
My dad's a brick salesman. Bricks. Bricks.
- [44:11]
Mark Maron
Like, all kinds.
- [44:12]
Jordan Klepper
Like, all kinds. Like, he would. He was essentially. He was on the road traveling all throughout the Midwest selling bricks. Selling bricks. Selling bricks.
- [44:19]
Mark Maron
So he had a few samples in the truck.
- [44:20]
Jordan Klepper
Always had some samples in the back.
- [44:21]
Mark Maron
You gotta have a truck, right?
- [44:22]
Jordan Klepper
Oh, you got. Well, he. He had. He would always. He's a car guy.
- [44:25]
Mark Maron
Ye.
- [44:26]
Jordan Klepper
He would get the company car.
- [44:27]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [44:27]
Jordan Klepper
He would take care of it like nobody's business. And then, like, buy it back from the company because it was better than it was when they gave him.
- [44:33]
Mark Maron
Because he got attached to it.
- [44:34]
Jordan Klepper
Oh, yeah. He was always, like, working that ankle.
- [44:36]
Mark Maron
That's Michigan.
- [44:36]
Jordan Klepper
That's Michigan for you. We drove around selling bricks.
- [44:40]
Mark Maron
Like, what? But, like. Like, do you know the difference between bricks?
- [44:43]
Jordan Klepper
Do I know?
- [44:44]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [44:44]
Jordan Klepper
Barely. I know cheap bricks and expensive bricks.
- [44:47]
Mark Maron
What makes a difference?
- [44:48]
Jordan Klepper
Well, I think, like, you go to big cities now and it's. They're just fronts, essentially.
- [44:52]
Mark Maron
Sure. Well, that's. Right. There's no real masonry.
- [44:55]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah.
- [44:55]
Mark Maron
The Masonic brotherhood that actually built buildings. Not as many anymore.
- [45:00]
Jordan Klepper
Not at all.
- [45:01]
Mark Maron
It's kind of crazy when you see brick buildings and you're like, wow. Yeah, that took some work.
- [45:05]
Jordan Klepper
They're incredible.
- [45:05]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [45:06]
Jordan Klepper
And they stick around.
- [45:07]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [45:08]
Jordan Klepper
And now they build stuff and they Put just these fronts and stones are bricks. Yeah, yeah.
- [45:12]
Mark Maron
Because it's just like shitty drywall behind that or whatever. But your dad was working with the real bricks.
- [45:18]
Jordan Klepper
My dad was a brick man. Traveled all around.
- [45:20]
Mark Maron
I remember that we had bad bricks in my house for the floor. And the way that you can tell a bad brick is when they yellow in the center after you treat them.
- [45:30]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah, yeah. So you just knew it was like, oh, this is a shitty floor right now. This is shitty bricks.
- [45:36]
Mark Maron
We went cheap on the bricks and now we got these yellow centers.
- [45:40]
Jordan Klepper
You always pay money. It'll stick around.
- [45:43]
Mark Maron
So he's a brick guy.
- [45:44]
Jordan Klepper
He was a brick guy. He retired. He worked that for many, many years. And like all businesses, they get smaller and smaller and get sold up the ladder.
- [45:52]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [45:53]
Jordan Klepper
To some big corporations. They start pushing people out and then.
- [45:55]
Mark Maron
The bricks start coming from China and it's over.
- [45:57]
Jordan Klepper
And suddenly you got China bricks. And what are you gonna do with that?
- [45:59]
Mark Maron
Yeah, well, you gotta come, you gotta do it.
- [46:02]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah.
- [46:03]
Mark Maron
Nothing like, my, My mother's boyfriend was like in the textile business.
- [46:07]
Jordan Klepper
Is that right?
- [46:07]
Mark Maron
Yeah, like, but he was an old man, but he still was in the game kind of. But, you know, you can't get, you know, you can't when you can't pitch like the cotton mill here in the States and, you know, come from New Hampshire or whatever.
- [46:18]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah.
- [46:18]
Mark Maron
And he just kind of got disillusioned with all Chinese people fabrics.
- [46:21]
Jordan Klepper
I mean, I, I watched my dad sort of as he aged into the brick building just in the last few years. I mean, it's. The story all across America is like everybody's, they, they sell to a foreign entity, everybody's spending less. They want cheaper answers. And then the, the brick salesman, who, like my dad is a charismatic, thoughtful, smart guy.
- [46:41]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [46:42]
Jordan Klepper
Sold bricks because he could drive six hours to the middle of Wisconsin and knew the distributors and they were friends with Mark and they would buy brick from Mark. And then the company eventually is like, well, what if we get a 22 year old, pay him nothing but give him a car, and then he doesn't have to make connections with these other people. He could all do it online, just drop it off.
- [46:59]
Mark Maron
Right.
- [46:59]
Jordan Klepper
And you're just like, yeah, this is sort of how every industry is evolving.
- [47:03]
Mark Maron
Well, that's what we lose. And I think that's why people are upset on quitting the podcast, because we lose the human connection 100%. And, you know, that's the big problem with everybody. Even when I was touring, you know, you get these roomful of like, Minded people, but they're not a community. They're just at home on their phones, freaking out with the rest of them. And then all of a sudden there'900 of them in a room and they're like, oh, well, there's more of us. You know, it's a big.
- [47:25]
Jordan Klepper
Have you noticed it? I feel like I've noticed a shift in an audience is feeling just surprised to be around so many other people who are excited in the same way.
- [47:33]
Mark Maron
Yeah, no, it's the best.
- [47:34]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah.
- [47:34]
Mark Maron
And I'm also finding that like, you know, staying true to the sort of like, you know, like what is happening is a fucking shit show nightmare that most people are aware of that. You know what I mean?
- [47:52]
Jordan Klepper
They get the premise.
- [47:53]
Mark Maron
Well, no, they laugh nervously because like, that's my biggest fear is that, you know, regular people, maybe many who didn't even vote, who don't even have a horse in the game, are just like on a base level, scared to fucking even engage in, you know, get into the conversation. So when you say something that lets a little steam out, they're like, oh shit. You're like, it's a great thing, but it's also a bad indicator.
- [48:18]
Jordan Klepper
It's interesting. My shows, I kind of shifted. I got into the standup game late. I sort of shifted from doing a more traditional standup set to just. I would have such a split audience of people who are like, we are just here to talk politics. We're so fucking scared and nervous. Other people were like, don't fucking talk politics, just give us stand up stuff. And I found it really hard to sort of navigate what this material was or where to start.
- [48:39]
Mark Maron
I just presented as sections.
- [48:41]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah, I feel like I'm not, I'm not. I don't think I'm. I don't think I'm fluid enough with or have as many sections. So I just sort of was like, I'm gonna weave together a. This show is like weaving together essentially just a, A narrative political show for people who are, who are in it to be like, let's give this audience the most full show we could do there.
- [48:59]
Mark Maron
Sure. Like, I try like it was a. For me in doing the politics that'll be on my, my, my new special. Like I realized. What I realized is that there, there. It's hard to, to talk truthfully snarky, way within the right amount of menace and intensity without it being slightly self righteous. So I really, in the couple weeks before I shot my special, I'm like, you gotta try to do this material from A human place as opposed to, like, you know, like, this is it, man. You know, like, try to just take it down a notch so, you know, you're showing you don't have answers. And it was very helpful observation.
- [49:40]
Jordan Klepper
I opened up on tour a little bit last year. Like, just. I was like, let's do less crowd work. More like Q and A. Yeah. I had, like, 45 minutes of stuff, and I was like, people want to talk afterwards. And I was. I was shocked by the questions that were. I was sort of expecting, like, you know, politics questions mixed with, like, entertainment. Fun questions.
- [50:00]
Mark Maron
No, they're going right for policy.
- [50:01]
Jordan Klepper
Right for policy. Specific policy. Like, people wanted answers, they wanted help, they wanted strategy, like, across the board. I was like, I got stories about meeting Paul McCartney. You want to know what, how tall Jon Stewart is? I got. I got nothing. I got stuff to chat about. They didn't want any of that.
- [50:15]
Mark Maron
There's no NDA on Stewart's height.
- [50:18]
Jordan Klepper
No. I mean, yes. The guy is so fucking short.
- [50:21]
Mark Maron
I know.
- [50:21]
Jordan Klepper
I mean, he's so tiny.
- [50:22]
Mark Maron
He's like, what is he, five, seven?
- [50:24]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah. Boy, on a really, really good day.
- [50:29]
Mark Maron
Yeah. So. But, yeah. Well, that's interesting, because that means that there is a lack of representation.
- [50:34]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah.
- [50:34]
Mark Maron
That, you know, that's a congressman's job.
- [50:36]
Jordan Klepper
It 100% is.
- [50:38]
Mark Maron
And that's interesting that they're like, you know, this guy's on tv. He seems to know. They don't have the connection to their representatives.
- [50:47]
Jordan Klepper
No, they don't know. There's no place for them to dump this outrage and. Or ask those questions or to get.
- [50:52]
Mark Maron
Their representatives to take a stand. I mean, that's sort of the way it was supposed to work. No, it's like, let's get the clown.
- [50:57]
Jordan Klepper
To do it again. Improv, Mark. I'm an improviser, not a clown. It's a very different thing. Clowns use props. We pretend to use props. Very different.
- [51:08]
Mark Maron
Okay, I get it. I get it. I think we're all. I include myself in the clown.
- [51:12]
Jordan Klepper
Oh, okay. Okay. The metaphorical clown.
- [51:15]
Mark Maron
Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's like Neil Brennan did that great joke about. Just about politics and where we're at now. It's like, let's see what the clown has to say. When did that happen?
- [51:25]
Jordan Klepper
Oh, no, it was a mass shooting. Now let's turn on the clowns, see if they have a perspective on this.
- [51:29]
Mark Maron
Perspective on this. So what it. So you went to college for theater?
- [51:33]
Jordan Klepper
No, I went to college. I got a math scholarship, and this.
- [51:36]
Mark Maron
Was the Texas A.
- [51:37]
Jordan Klepper
And M. No, this is. Oh, for. No, I went to college in Kalamazoo.
- [51:40]
Mark Maron
Oh, okay. Okay.
- [51:41]
Jordan Klepper
Texas A and M is where I traveled to for the special.
- [51:43]
Mark Maron
Oh, okay. Right. That's where it was. I thought you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You didn't go there.
- [51:46]
Jordan Klepper
I didn't go there, no. God bless. I didn't even know Texas existed when I was 18.
- [51:49]
Mark Maron
Well, that's.
- [51:50]
Jordan Klepper
Well.
- [51:50]
Mark Maron
Well, that's the interesting thing in relating to what you said earlier, just, you know, before I forget it, is that the. The Christian element of the right is, you know, still. It's relatively subversive in a way. Like, there, there. I think there's not as many kids on board with the full Christian push as they are with the. The thrill of. Of being able to shut down a liberal.
- [52:13]
Jordan Klepper
Yes.
- [52:13]
Mark Maron
Right. So. But there is the. The. The people that are guiding the authoritarian momentum is. Is a Christian. Their Christian ideal.
- [52:23]
Jordan Klepper
Well, and that was interesting with the Charlie Kirk of it all. Again, Texas A and M take it with a grain of salt. It's a very specific school.
- [52:29]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [52:30]
Jordan Klepper
Probably one of the most Christian schools in America.
- [52:32]
Mark Maron
Right.
- [52:34]
Jordan Klepper
But when you talk to the people who were coming from that perspective, they were not MAGA folks, they were Charlie Kirk folks.
- [52:40]
Mark Maron
Right.
- [52:40]
Jordan Klepper
And they saw him as a good Christian boy who could articulate the Lord's words. And so that's where Trump has those folks out there. It was like, oh, you can. I can bring up all of the things that Trump does that are unchristian in nature.
- [52:53]
Mark Maron
Well, it's the flawed messenger framing.
- [52:55]
Jordan Klepper
Yes. I think they've finally gotten behind like that as, like. Oh, but it's what he gets done.
- [52:59]
Mark Maron
Right. And what he enables us to do.
- [53:01]
Jordan Klepper
Yes.
- [53:02]
Mark Maron
Oddly, that was the same relationship they had with Satan. You just make a deal.
- [53:08]
Jordan Klepper
Just make. We make a simple deal and everything's fine. Right. There's no repercussions.
- [53:12]
Mark Maron
We can get what we want to get done. If we make a deal with this guy who's going to destroy everything but kind of fits our story, the guy's got to come back.
- [53:21]
Jordan Klepper
I think they maybe skipped over that part.
- [53:23]
Mark Maron
Yeah. I don't know. So, okay, so you go to Kalamazoo.
- [53:26]
Jordan Klepper
I go to Kalamazoo. I'm. I go as a math kid and I find improv comedy and become kind of obsessed with.
- [53:33]
Mark Maron
Are you good math?
- [53:33]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah, I was. I was. I was a.
- [53:36]
Mark Maron
What level?
- [53:37]
Jordan Klepper
Level seven.
- [53:38]
Mark Maron
Oh, wow.
- [53:38]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah. Pretty good. Yeah. I'm a level seven math wizard.
- [53:40]
Mark Maron
No, like physics.
- [53:42]
Jordan Klepper
I did. I did physics, but I like when I essentially get a scholarship to go to Kalamazoo College for math and realized, like, really, I'm the kind of kid who is. Who's really good at math in high school because I could put in the work. And I was smart kid. And then I go to college, and there's, like, eight math majors.
- [53:59]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [53:59]
Jordan Klepper
And I just saw the difference between, like, a real person who's good at math, who. It comes to them. Like, a savant is good at music. It happens with math. And I was like, oh, I'm a kid who worked really hard at math.
- [54:10]
Mark Maron
Yeah. And that's not going to carry.
- [54:11]
Jordan Klepper
I'm like, I could be. I could get a B minus here.
- [54:13]
Mark Maron
Right, right.
- [54:13]
Jordan Klepper
And. But these kids, they ace it with the A. And that's because you're in theoretical math once you get into college and everything is theory. And I. I'm, like, weeping looking at this. Like, I can't learn this.
- [54:22]
Mark Maron
Yeah. If you don't have the gift, you.
- [54:24]
Jordan Klepper
Don'T have the gift. I didn't have it.
- [54:25]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [54:25]
Jordan Klepper
And then they're like, oh, do you want to. Do you want to do improv comedy? That thing you saw on Whose Line is It Anyway? Like, yeah, I think. Let me try this.
- [54:32]
Mark Maron
I couldn't get through. Algebra is where I stop.
- [54:35]
Jordan Klepper
Really?
- [54:35]
Mark Maron
Oh, yeah. I mean, somehow or another, I pulled it out for geometry because there were pictures, but the numbers and letters, no good for me. And when I'd see, like, you know, guys with physics textbooks, I would just look at those textbooks and be like, what the fuck is in there?
- [54:51]
Jordan Klepper
It's dark. The deeper you go there, it's dark. It's not sexy. They brought in. They could sense at my college that, like, people weren't super excited about their mathematical future. So they knew that, like, everybody who was studying math was like, we know that. People say, when you have a math major, all you can do is teach math. And that's not true. There's one other profession, and they brought in an actuarial scientist, which is somebody who, like, figures out when you're gonna die and then bases your insurance rates off of that.
- [55:17]
Mark Maron
There you go.
- [55:19]
Jordan Klepper
That was their sexy sell right there.
- [55:21]
Mark Maron
You could have been a member of the dark side early on, right off the bat.
- [55:25]
Jordan Klepper
I could have been making cash at 22, figuring out when my parents were.
- [55:28]
Mark Maron
Gonna pass away and denying them coverage.
- [55:30]
Jordan Klepper
Exactly. That was their big sell. It was like, oh, it's not just teaching. It's this guy, and you can imagine that guy. Not the most compelling human.
- [55:40]
Mark Maron
Not an improv guy.
- [55:41]
Jordan Klepper
Not an improv guy. Improv. They're like, hey, whatever you want to fucking do. That's cool, man. Like, this is great. You're not gonna judge me. There's no wrong answer.
- [55:47]
Mark Maron
So did you do it in college?
- [55:49]
Jordan Klepper
I did.
- [55:50]
Mark Maron
Like, they had a group.
- [55:51]
Jordan Klepper
They had a group called Monkapult and I. Yeah, I fucking loved it. A long standing group at that point. Like four or five years. I feel like improv was kind of becoming cool on college campuses. Okay, Cool as a stretch.
- [56:03]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [56:03]
Jordan Klepper
But for my mindset, it is true. Like, I was. I was a nerd who, you know, was all about, what are the seven things I need to do to be successful, to get into college, to do these things, to be a math major. And then suddenly this improv world is like, use a different part of your brain, man. Be creative. What do you feel? What do you care about? Go after that? And it was great. And Kalamazoo is right by Chicago, where Improv Olympic is second city. And so I started going there on weekends just to watch that out. To watch. Started to perform a little bit. And then as I graduate, I'm like, I like this more than anything else.
- [56:37]
Mark Maron
And how'd the brick salesman take it?
- [56:39]
Jordan Klepper
You know what? Fucking great. I mean, I look back on it and I am judgmental of how unjudgmental my parents were about it.
- [56:47]
Mark Maron
What'd your mom do?
- [56:48]
Jordan Klepper
My mom, she was a stay at home mom. She worked in a prison to begin with, then stayed at home with us, and then she worked in multiple high schools as a secretary. Also a salesman. She sold baskets. She's. She was. She's a jack of all trades. So fucking funny. I get my, My. Any sense of humor I get from her and my sarcasm from my dad.
- [57:11]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [57:12]
Jordan Klepper
And as soon as I was like, I'm gonna go to Chicago and I'm gonna do improv and I'm gonna be a public school substitute teacher. And I got this math major there. They. They loved it.
- [57:22]
Mark Maron
Oh, yeah.
- [57:22]
Jordan Klepper
They would drive to see shows and I. I wish I had, like, stories of fighting against my parents supporting me. I don't. I don't. They were, they were remarkably supportive.
- [57:31]
Mark Maron
What is the. You know, I. Sometimes I do a little research. What's. What's the Tim Allen connection?
- [57:36]
Jordan Klepper
Oh, great. So just a little here. Tim is my mom's cousin and my dad. Dad's roommate. First cousin.
- [57:43]
Mark Maron
Really?
- [57:44]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah. Dad's college roommate in Central Michigan University.
- [57:47]
Mark Maron
No kidding.
- [57:47]
Jordan Klepper
So, like, my dad would come home with Tim and met a bag of blow. And a bag of blow. I mean, those Stories came out after. After I became a full adult. It was just fun. Fun. Uncle Tim, who was on Home Improvement. Wait a minute. What did he get arrested for?
- [58:02]
Mark Maron
That was after college, though.
- [58:03]
Jordan Klepper
I think that was after college. Yeah. My dad. That timeline is hazy when you talk to my father about what he knew post college, but that. I think that arrest was in Kalamazoo. It was in the airport in my hometown.
- [58:13]
Mark Maron
Oh, really?
- [58:13]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah. So Tim. Tim went through some shit.
- [58:16]
Mark Maron
Yeah. Yeah.
- [58:16]
Jordan Klepper
But he was. That's how my parents connected.
- [58:20]
Mark Maron
So you. He was around the family.
- [58:22]
Jordan Klepper
Around the family. I would see Tim at Thanksgiving.
- [58:24]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [58:25]
Jordan Klepper
We'd see him at Lions games. He'd come back to Detroit and then he got Home Improvement in the Santa Claus. And I was a kid at that point, and it was amazing seeing somebody you knew on tv.
- [58:35]
Mark Maron
That must have been like, somewhat inspiring in terms of.
- [58:38]
Jordan Klepper
For sure. It's interesting thinking, like, I don't think I still. The idea of finding any success or being on TV was very far away from me, but like, to see Tim do that, I think improv. I went into a totally different. Improv is such a different world than Tim's stand up world.
- [58:52]
Mark Maron
Sure.
- [58:52]
Jordan Klepper
Like, he was a real road dog.
- [58:54]
Mark Maron
For a long time.
- [58:55]
Jordan Klepper
He was.
- [58:55]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [58:56]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah. And so, like, when I would talk to him about it, when I was getting into it, we just had it. We had a different vocabulary.
- [59:01]
Mark Maron
Sure.
- [59:01]
Jordan Klepper
Like I, He. He was like, you can come out and watch what it's like on a film set. And so I did that for like a weekend.
- [59:07]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [59:07]
Jordan Klepper
One of his movies. And it was amazing, but he was sort of like, hey, you know, I can tell you how to do it in the standup world. He was like, if you want to maybe be like an assistant.
- [59:18]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [59:18]
Jordan Klepper
Like, you can come out and do this. And I was like, you know what? I. I want to be an improv guy. This is the thing that I love.
- [59:23]
Mark Maron
What do you say to that?
- [59:24]
Jordan Klepper
I don't. He was. He was like, all right. I don't think. I don't think he got.
- [59:30]
Mark Maron
Was different generation.
- [59:31]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah.
- [59:32]
Mark Maron
I mean, it wasn't until after that generation where people started being delivered into the comedy industry from Chicago and from UCB and stuff, you know. Well, I guess that's untrue. Groundlings. And then there was the original bunch from SNL were definitely improv people. It's always been there. But standups are just these lone wolf weirdos that don't fit in with other people. So the last thing they want to do is collaborate on something funny until they need writers.
- [60:00]
Jordan Klepper
Well, that's what was funny. I love my Chicago time. I was there for nine years and we crafted a. I crafted a two person sketch show with a writing partner of mine who's still working a bunch, Steve Waltine. And we brought it out to la. It had like nine sketches that wove some themes into it. Very Chicago, for better or worse, like herald, like heraldy stuff. But it was like a thematic sketch show that we came out. We did it here at the improv Olympic when it was here. And Tim came out to it really grateful that he did. And talking to him afterwards, he saw it as almost like each sketch as like a pitch for a TV idea. And I think we were so confused by that. I look back and I'm like, I totally get it now. At the time, as a Chicago guy, I was like, did you understand the themes of masculinity and all this kind of stuff? And he's like, oh, here's out of these nine pitches, I like these two. There's something here and something there. And that was just totally like a different language.
- [60:53]
Mark Maron
That's helpful though.
- [60:54]
Jordan Klepper
It very much was. I look back, I'm like, Tim was spot on. He knew how to work at LA in Chicago. Nobody in Chicago had any idea how to get jobs out here.
- [61:02]
Mark Maron
Well, that's the funny thing about Chicago is that because improv as an art form exists primarily in that city. So you've got these holdouts who are like, don't sell out. The real art is here, here. It's the discovery. Right?
- [61:16]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah. It's all about the process.
- [61:17]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [61:17]
Jordan Klepper
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think at that time, like, the only jobs you could see people getting were on snl.
- [61:23]
Mark Maron
Yeah, right.
- [61:24]
Jordan Klepper
And that, and that didn't. I mean, I feel, you know, old here in that there weren't. There weren't videos online, people weren't uploading sketches there. So it was all about whether Lorne Michaels came through once.
- [61:33]
Mark Maron
Sure.
- [61:34]
Jordan Klepper
Once a year he'd check out one show and then he might pick one of those people to be on.
- [61:37]
Mark Maron
Were you, did you audition?
- [61:39]
Jordan Klepper
I auditioned in Chicago. I never got the New York call.
- [61:41]
Mark Maron
Right, right.
- [61:42]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah.
- [61:42]
Mark Maron
So you're there for nine years. Nine years and then you go to New York.
- [61:46]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah.
- [61:46]
Mark Maron
And. But by that time you're pretty proficient improviser. But did you. You know what I mean? What do you take from improv, like, in retrospect?
- [61:54]
Jordan Klepper
Like, I mean, I sell a couple little things that get me to New York and then, I mean, as far as what I take from It.
- [62:01]
Mark Maron
What was the lesson?
- [62:02]
Jordan Klepper
I mean, I think the stuff I do on the street is all improv.
- [62:06]
Mark Maron
Sure.
- [62:06]
Jordan Klepper
I think, I think. And when I get to the Daily Show, I realize there's two types of comedy writers at the Daily Show. There's the improvisers and the stand up.
- [62:13]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [62:14]
Jordan Klepper
But for the Daily show, when you're writing the show, the first half of the day is improv mind. Second half is stand up mind.
- [62:18]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [62:19]
Jordan Klepper
Like, it's all brainstorm. It's all yes to everything. It's, don't judge as many ideas as we can.
- [62:24]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [62:24]
Jordan Klepper
And then the second half is like, all right, let's get this fucking good polish.
- [62:27]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [62:27]
Jordan Klepper
Let's play it off of each other. Yeah. And so I think, like, that was really helpful for me from a creative.
- [62:32]
Mark Maron
Perspective, but in taking hits, you know, like, you know, as a comic, you kind of know like, you're gonna tank.
- [62:38]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah.
- [62:40]
Mark Maron
But at least when you tank an improv, there's someone's gonna pick up the swack.
- [62:43]
Jordan Klepper
I mean, I think that's. I think. Yeah. Improvisers are much more social folks. It's like, oh, I got four other people I'm bombing up here with. Like, we sync together. So you have in Chicago, you're up. You know, you're up 15 times a week, just sinking, sinking and loving and thinking and brainstorming.
- [63:02]
Mark Maron
And I guess it's easier to take the hit when you got a bunch of other people.
- [63:05]
Jordan Klepper
Oh, 100%.
- [63:07]
Mark Maron
Except for the one guy who's going.
- [63:08]
Jordan Klepper
You fucked us, Jordan. Yeah. I mean, that guy. But then you kick that guy out and it's just all love. He didn't understand us. He didn't understand. No. You create your own cocoon.
- [63:15]
Mark Maron
That guy went into standup.
- [63:17]
Jordan Klepper
He did. He did very well.
- [63:18]
Mark Maron
Much faster now. Do you and Tim talk politics now?
- [63:23]
Jordan Klepper
We do a little bit. I don't see Tim a ton, but yeah.
- [63:29]
Mark Maron
That must be interesting.
- [63:29]
Jordan Klepper
It's fascinating. Yeah. I mean, Tim is a great guy. I love Tim.
- [63:33]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [63:34]
Jordan Klepper
You know, I see he's like. He's like a libertarian contrarian who loves to give you shit, loves to stir up things. And so we will get into it. We don't see eye to eye, but I've talked to a lot of folks, like cousin Tim.
- [63:48]
Mark Maron
Well, that's the weird thing about these. You know, he may not have been one, but there's a lot of these sort of old Democrats who became more libertarian once they got money and then they just like to shit talk. But there's a problem with that, though, you know, like. Because Mamet's a good example.
- [64:07]
Jordan Klepper
Sure.
- [64:08]
Mark Maron
You know, where you're like, is this a performance piece you fuck or is this like, who you are? And. But what you start to realize about a lot of these people, you know, especially the ones who are in politics, especially the ones, you know, like Mark Rubio or any of these senators who once had some sort of integrity, is that I guess once you, you make the change to feel empowered with the ideological point of view, that's going to enable you to survive that out of shame, you literally kill the old voice that you once had and you no longer know that that was foundational to you.
- [64:44]
Jordan Klepper
I mean, I think that's beautifully said. Yeah. I mean, I think you craft your own narrative out of the thing that you found that works for you.
- [64:50]
Mark Maron
Yeah. And the other thing is just like. But it also speaks to what are. And I think there was a. That was the jarring thing about the magnificent, horrendous defeat was that there was no real guiding principles that were being, you know, maintained by, by, by these civic employees or elected officials. It was just really survival and, and, you know, shifting blame and, and trying to figure out how to stay in power. And so they're just. There's no. There, there's no real democratic principles anymore.
- [65:29]
Jordan Klepper
No.
- [65:29]
Mark Maron
There's a couple of guys in the Senate that are still, I think, believe it. And I think that's one of the things to, to, to credit and not completely diminish, you know, people who are still looking to a two party solution for what's happening is that I think that if they, and I think, John, is this. I think if you believe in it, in democracy, that you need to keep speaking the language of it as a means to finding a solution.
- [65:54]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah.
- [65:56]
Mark Maron
And I guess it's good that there's still a few people with principles out there.
- [65:59]
Jordan Klepper
I think they're there.
- [66:00]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [66:00]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah, yeah.
- [66:01]
Mark Maron
Sorry, I got back into the not fun part.
- [66:05]
Jordan Klepper
No, there's hope in there. That's what I hear a little bit about that.
- [66:08]
Mark Maron
Oh, good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [66:10]
Jordan Klepper
You know, I've got to meet. I got to meet a lot of governors.
- [66:14]
Mark Maron
Well, they're usually the best ones.
- [66:16]
Jordan Klepper
And I think that that was something that finally hit me where I'm like, oh, the senators and the Congress fol. And there's some, some thoughtful, interesting ones who really are fighting.
- [66:24]
Mark Maron
It's not their job to run a city.
- [66:25]
Jordan Klepper
Exactly.
- [66:26]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [66:26]
Jordan Klepper
They can be, they can politic.
- [66:28]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [66:28]
Jordan Klepper
In fact, if you're not in power, you better Just fucking politic. Because that's all you got. Yeah, but if you're a governor, you gotta make a fucking state work. You gotta listen to both sides. You gotta make sure the roads work.
- [66:37]
Mark Maron
Mayors and governors.
- [66:38]
Jordan Klepper
Mayors and governors. And that's. I was like, oh, like Wes Moore, Gretchen Whitmer, Like, I was like, oh, yeah, you have to get shit done. And there's such a disconnect with, like, the what? With politics and governing. And, you know, I think governing is such a different thing than politics.
- [66:53]
Mark Maron
Yeah, because it's like, it is like, this is where you gotta put, you know, get boots on the ground and fucking, you know, talk to people who don't have the same political ideology as you, but have needs and are in trouble and go like, well, let's see if we can make this work. And they're grateful. And then they go back and vote for the monster.
- [67:12]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah, exactly. They don't learn, but that's what fucking governing is. And now you don't have a job and then you have to turn on the politicking again. But then you do have a job and you have to get shit done.
- [67:23]
Mark Maron
Yeah, it's crazy. So your manager is Kirsten Ames?
- [67:27]
Jordan Klepper
Yes. You know Kirsten, back in the day, we started together. Yeah.
- [67:31]
Mark Maron
I think that she, like, she got her footing. She produced my first big one man show. She was at the Westbeth Theater and then she got into management. Yeah, I think she gives me some love for. For getting her into the game a bit. But it's way back, man. Yeah, she's great. And she still runs her own shop.
- [67:48]
Jordan Klepper
She totally does.
- [67:49]
Mark Maron
That's the best.
- [67:50]
Jordan Klepper
She's added Fred Hash again on it, who's another manager of mine. But yeah, Kirsten came through Chicago back in the day. I've been working with her for, I mean, God, what, 17 years now.
- [68:01]
Mark Maron
No kidding.
- [68:01]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah, so she doing my improv shows. I was doing a parody late night show back in the day in Chicago where we get. We'd get. People come in. I would play a character, I would host a show. It got weird. It was fun. It was a bit experimental. And she was like, all right, I can work with this. We're like, oh my God, how do we make this happen? She's like, well, you gotta get out of Chicago. Yeah, yeah, but I can point you in some directions.
- [68:26]
Mark Maron
Right. And that's when you went to New York?
- [68:29]
Jordan Klepper
I got cast in a little pilot. Didn't go anywhere. Then I sold a pilot. Wasn't very good. Didn't go anywhere. But then I was out there just.
- [68:36]
Mark Maron
Hustling to network or Comedy Central.
- [68:38]
Jordan Klepper
Comedy Central. I sold a pilot, a scripted pilot to them right when I moved there.
- [68:44]
Mark Maron
So what was the evolution? So you were. You were working out at UCB in New York.
- [68:48]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah, that was sort of my home base. I was teaching, and I was doing shows.
- [68:51]
Mark Maron
Okay.
- [68:51]
Jordan Klepper
And then I was getting little writing. There was, like, little writing jobs for, like, VH1, MTV, reality TV.
- [68:57]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [68:58]
Jordan Klepper
Little acting jobs here and there. Yeah, constantly. Constantly pitching, kind of making your own shit. And then Oliver leaves the Daily Show. And that's one of those jobs that comes around every, like, three years.
- [69:09]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [69:09]
Jordan Klepper
Not very often.
- [69:10]
Mark Maron
Right.
- [69:11]
Jordan Klepper
And. And they saw some of the pieces I was doing, some of the videos I put out. I did some stuff with my wife, who also. We met in Chicago, also a comedian, and we were doing web series together.
- [69:21]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [69:22]
Jordan Klepper
And they saw that, and they invited me and my wife to. To put some stuff on tape, enter into that process.
- [69:28]
Mark Maron
Okay.
- [69:29]
Jordan Klepper
We do that. That becomes its own thing, too. It goes through many rounds. They ask for my wife and me to go on tape. We get to the final round, and they invite myself and my wife to come in and audition with John. With Nate Bragazzi as well. Was there. And audition with John. It was one of those things that, at that point, I've been doing it for 15 years, and I never feel good at those things. That one I did, I walked away. I was like, oh, you know what? That one I did.
- [69:59]
Mark Maron
You did the best you could.
- [70:00]
Jordan Klepper
You did the best you could. You're like, that was all right. That was all right. Also, like, what you feel. And I look back in retrospect with it. It's like, that audition is, can you do this job? But also, are you not an asshole? Are you easy to work with? Can you generate? That's where improv comes in. Because what John does is he. You meet him, and we go in cold, and we just start, like, playing around with the script, which for me is like, oh, thank God I have permission to, like, act. I'm not funny with a script. I'm funny off a script I can find elsewhere. And that was my sweet spot. And so it works. My wife gets the phone call from Kirsten Ames, who says, you didn't get the job. Jordan did. She hands me the phone. I'm ecstatic. She's brokenhearted.
- [70:43]
Mark Maron
And that becomes the struggle of marriage.
- [70:45]
Jordan Klepper
That is exactly what. Yeah.
- [70:48]
Mark Maron
For the rest of your life, that.
- [70:49]
Jordan Klepper
Day, that will define you 100%, at least for the next three or four years, that becomes the thing that is difficult to deal with day in and day out about work.
- [70:57]
Mark Maron
It's okay now.
- [70:58]
Jordan Klepper
It's okay now.
- [70:59]
Mark Maron
You got kids?
- [71:00]
Jordan Klepper
One kid.
- [71:00]
Mark Maron
Oh, okay.
- [71:01]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah, yeah. A little four and a half year old.
- [71:03]
Mark Maron
And now like the. So you get in your correspondent.
- [71:06]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah.
- [71:07]
Mark Maron
And now like when John leaves, which was. That happened after.
- [71:11]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah. So I, I was, I was with John for about a year and a half and he leaves.
- [71:14]
Mark Maron
And so the scramble to mend the ship happens.
- [71:17]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah, yeah.
- [71:18]
Mark Maron
And you're in the running.
- [71:19]
Jordan Klepper
I'm at that point. I'm. I'd love to think I'm in the running, but I know I'm a pretty young guy and low on that totem pole.
- [71:25]
Mark Maron
Yeah. But where is it at now? What's. What is the plan?
- [71:28]
Jordan Klepper
I think the plan, we, we. The plan, as far as we know, is this rotation and it works. I fucking like it.
- [71:35]
Mark Maron
And is the. How's the audience? How the numbers.
- [71:37]
Jordan Klepper
The numbers are great.
- [71:38]
Mark Maron
Yeah, numbers are great. Oh, good.
- [71:40]
Jordan Klepper
That's what they tell us, I think.
- [71:41]
Mark Maron
Yeah.
- [71:42]
Jordan Klepper
I would say from a work standpoint.
- [71:44]
Mark Maron
In cable and in network, you can still get numbers.
- [71:47]
Jordan Klepper
Exactly. So I think like Daily show, you know, for what it's worth, like all of the weird change we've had, the strike Covid, Trevor leaving, the hunt for new host, John coming back, this rotation, like what that sort of built out in the Daily show was like, we now know how to work different hosts and keep sort of a similar point of view for the show, but with different host perspectives. The digital stuff kind of exploded. So it's like, all right, you can. If you're not doing the stuff on the show here, you can kind of do this stuff. You can do long form specials and you're not getting burned out. I think of it now like John comes in one beautiful day a week. I think he likes that workload and I love hosting, but it's exhausting. So to do it for a week and to take a couple weeks off, go on the road, travel a little bit and come back is. I think it's keeping people fresh and keeping the show kind of able to surprise each other a little bit.
- [72:42]
Mark Maron
Well, that's good. It actually makes sense where, you know, to be sort of. What's the word I want? Like, you know, when you have one host that all the weights on, they're. They're afraid to even take time off.
- [72:53]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah.
- [72:53]
Mark Maron
You know, because, you know, the whole. They're the. The ship will sink or whatever. So if you can get something like this, where you know, people, either they get to like different guys or they're. They like that. It switches up and. Or they like everybody. Yeah, yeah. It's definitely a way to avoid burnout.
- [73:10]
Jordan Klepper
I think that's.
- [73:10]
Mark Maron
And keep variety going.
- [73:12]
Jordan Klepper
I think that's helpful for us. Also, as somebody, I like being in the field. I hosted a show before this run here, and it wore me out, and I could barely get out in the field. And so the ability to do a little bit of both keeps you sharp.
- [73:27]
Mark Maron
Yeah. Well, you're doing good work. I like the new one. That's the MAGA Next generation.
- [73:32]
Jordan Klepper
I appreciate it.
- [73:32]
Mark Maron
It was enlightening. Now I gotta fucking reckon with Charlie Kirk.
- [73:36]
Jordan Klepper
I'm sorry I fucked up your algorithm.
- [73:38]
Mark Maron
Well, what is that guy's background? Is he a true believer or is he a grifter?
- [73:45]
Jordan Klepper
He dropped out of college. I think he is a believer in the maga movement, but I think in all things Trump, he has found a blueprint for success. Financially, personal success. And he stayed on it. He provided some cover for Don Jr. Helping. Helping bring a lot of this MAGA to campuses. And it was a small operation for a while, and then the bigwigs gave him a ton of money, hundreds of millions of bucks. And that's his thing now. And I think he's youth outreach. Youth outreach. He's willing to go to those campuses and talk to those guys and play the Internet game. So I think he has found a lot of success. And I mean, you see this on all levels when you go to a rally, when you go to these events, like, all the different people who have figured out ways to financially make this work for them. Even at the lowest level, it's the people who are showing up again and again selling T shirts or again and again getting 150 likes on the little twitch stream that they're doing. Like, but every. There's. There's an ecosystem around the whole MAGA universe.
- [74:51]
Mark Maron
Sure, man.
- [74:52]
Jordan Klepper
Where everybody knows how to get their tickets.
- [74:53]
Mark Maron
You got a grifter king.
- [74:54]
Jordan Klepper
You got a grifter king.
- [74:55]
Mark Maron
There's your model.
- [74:56]
Jordan Klepper
Exactly.
- [74:57]
Mark Maron
All right, good talking to you, man.
- [74:58]
Jordan Klepper
You too. Thanks, Mark.
- [74:59]
Mark Maron
Yeah, well, there you go. You can watch MAGA the Next Generation on Paramount plus Comedy Central and YouTube. Hang out for a minute, will you, people? Hey, folks, you can catch up on 16 years of WTF by getting every episode ad free with a WTF plus subscription. Go check out ones from our early years, like episode 358 with Mel Brooks from 2013 and the producers. Get with the play. That was big. That was surprising, huh, for you? Yeah. You had no idea, right? No, I, you know, I was having fun. I was really just having. I didn't. I, you know, I had no idea it would be a hit. Yeah. I thought, well, maybe I'll run for it for, you know. Yeah, it'll be fun. It'll be fun. Yeah. And, yeah, you know, what do you live for? Yeah, you know, you, you live. Occasionally you live for a grilled cheese sandwich and fun. Yep. You know, that's a good one. That's Mel brooks from episode 358. To sign up for WTF plus, go to the link in the episode description or go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF Plus. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast. I seem to be doing my interpretations of songs that I feel appropriate for the moment. Boomer Lives Monkey and La Fonda Cat Angels everywhere.