Episode 1659 - Dustin Chafin / Darby Allin

Summary

WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1659: Dustin Chaffin & Darby Allin

Host: Marc Maron
Guests: Dustin Chaffin, Darby Allin
Release Date: July 10, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 1659 of "WTF with Marc Maron," Marc reunites with longtime friend and comedian Dustin Chaffin after two decades, alongside a compelling segment featuring AEW wrestler and pro skateboarder Darby Allin. This episode delves deep into personal histories, the struggles and triumphs of sobriety, the gritty world of comedy, and the awe-inspiring challenges of climbing Mount Everest.

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Darby Allin on Climbing Mount Everest

[00:00 – 05:25]
Marc Maron introduces the episode by sharing his excitement about reconnecting with Dustin Chaffin and introducing Darby Allin, who recently conquered Mount Everest. Darby Allin's journey serves as a profound exploration of personal strength and overcoming extreme challenges.

Key Discussions:

• Physical and Mental Toll of Everest:
  Darby reflects on the immense physical strain Everest placed on him:

  "Everything's a little worse on the physical side, but, you know, that's the gift. That's the gift of continuing to live."
  [04:50]

• Encounters with Death:
  Darby recounts disturbing moments on the mountain, including spotting new fatalities each day:

  "When I did the summit... coming back, all of a sudden, you see a new dead body that wasn't there on the trail 12 hours ago."
  [07:11]

• Summit Fever:
  He discusses the psychological phenomenon of "summit fever," where the obsession to reach the peak can override rational decision-making:

  "I felt 100% summit fever on that mountain at that time. I was like, I'm gonna die on this mountain before I turn back."
  [07:33]

• Personal Motivation and Proposals:
  In a heartfelt moment, Darby shares his proposal to a high school crush during his Everest climb, symbolizing personal growth and full-circle moments:

  "I filmed this video where I proposed to her. So it was like a fun, like, full circle moment."
  [20:47]

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Reconnecting with Dustin Chaffin: Shared Histories and Sobriety

[25:46 – 87:31]
Dustin Chaffin joins Marc Maron and co-host Chris Lopresto for an intimate conversation about their past, the tumultuous journey through sobriety, and the evolution of their comedy careers.

Key Discussions:

• Early Days in Comedy:
  Marc reminisces about running the Boston Comedy Club and discovering Dustin's authentic comedic style:

  "You were just the first guy I ever heard like, just go, oh, man, it was horrible, dude."
  [37:52]

• Family Struggles and Impact:
  Marc opens up about his challenging family background, including his father's alcoholism and its profound effect on his childhood:

  "He was smacking my mom... I pulled a gun on him once."
  [45:55]

• Journey to Sobriety:
  The conversation shifts to Dustin's sobriety journey, highlighting the mutual support between him and Marc:

  "He helped me frame when I was getting divorced... he's a great, brilliant guy."
  [64:21]

• Comedy as Healing:
  Both Marc and Dustin discuss how comedy served as a therapeutic outlet, helping them navigate personal demons and rebuild their lives.

• Collaborative Projects and Growth:
  They talk about their collaborative efforts in comedy, including Dustin's upcoming HBO special and Marc's clean comedy initiatives with Dry Bar:

  "I'm trying to lean towards that [clean comedy]. I'm not... I'm still dark-ish."
  [82:35]

• Support Systems and Mutual Influence:
  Dustin acknowledges how Marc's support was pivotal during his darkest times, reinforcing the strength of their enduring friendship:

  "I miss that guy, man."
  [63:53]

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Personal Stories and Reflections

Throughout the episode, Marc and Dustin share candid and often raw stories about their personal lives, mental health struggles, and the path to recovery.

Notable Moments:

• Marc's Time in a Psych Ward:
  Marc recounts his experience in a psych ward following a suicide attempt, highlighting the challenges and the beginning of his sobriety journey:

  "I woke up and I'm in this psych ward, man."
  [69:00]

• Overcoming Addiction:
  Both discuss the complexities of addiction and the continuous effort required to maintain sobriety, emphasizing the importance of having a supportive community.

• Influence of Comedy and Wrestling:
  They explore how their respective fields—comedy and wrestling—have shaped their personal growth and provided avenues for self-expression and healing.

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Conclusion

Episode 1659 of "WTF with Marc Maron" offers a profound exploration of friendship, resilience, and the healing power of humor. Through heartfelt conversations with Darby Allin and Dustin Chaffin, Marc Maron highlights the importance of personal growth, overcoming adversity, and the enduring bonds that support us through life's toughest challenges.

Notable Quotes:

• Darby Allin on Perseverance:

  "You can just watch things in your body slowly break down."
  [00:09]

• Dustin Chaffin on Sobriety:

  "He helped me frame when I was getting divorced... he's a great, brilliant guy."
  [64:21]

• Marc Maron on Comedy and Recovery:

  "I was just trying to hit that angle, but it's just balanced now."
  [34:35]

This episode stands as a testament to the resilience of the human spirit and the transformative power of genuine connections and shared experiences.

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For more insights and full-show archives, consider subscribing to WTF+ here.

Transcript

[Marc Maron]

Lock the gate.

[Dustin Chaffin]

All right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers. What the buddies. What the ears. What's happening? I'm Marc Maron. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. How's it going out there? How'd everybody do? I don't know. General question. How'd everybody do? I did okay this morning. Did you do okay this morning? How far into the day are you? What's going on? Oh, my God. There's a lot of stuff. There's a lot of stuff. A lot of things are breaking down in me, in my body. My eyes are fucked up. That's for another day. Not bad. Just keep, you know, I mean, every year a little. Little worse. Everything's a little worse on the physical side, but, you know, that's the gift. That's the gift of continuing to live. You can just watch things in your body slowly break down. How's it going? Good morning. Yeah, that's where I'm at. Look, today, a couple of interesting things today. Well, first of all, I'm going to talk to Dustin Chaffin. He's a comedian who I literally have known for. Wow. I don't know. It's gotta be 25 years. I haven't talked to him, I don't think, in 20 years. And he was around when I was in New York, I'm guessing. Gotta be 2000s, early 2000s. He used to run a room. I think he was roommates. We talk about it, but I think he was roommates with Bargetzi. He tours with Bargetzi now. But back in the day, he had sort of a gimmick going, and I think he's over it, but we talk about it. He texted me out of nowhere, and he was like, can we talk? And I'm like, yeah, man. Yeah, you can go to dustin chaffin.com to see his tour dates. I'm just glad he's still around. He's coming up. Now. The other thing that we're going to do today is kind of interesting. Now, a lot of, you know me, I'm not challenging myself. Is. There's a spectrum to it. Okay. You know, I don't go overboard, certainly not physically. You know, I keep in shape. I do the exercising. I think I'm. I'm actually. I believe that Men's Health magazine is some, for some reason, gonna do a piece on me. And I tried to make it clear to the person arranging it that, like, you know, I'm not ripped and, you know, I'm not really abiding by any Specific protocol, diet wise, other than the one that I've created for myself, you know, But I am. I am fit. Is that going to be enough? I'd prefer no pictures with the shirt off. I don't really want to do any action shots. But look, I push it. I do my thing, man. You know, I mean, I go up that mountain. I was going up a lot more. I haven't been going up lately because since I broke my foot and passed out and a slight fear, but not so much going up, going down. And for some reason, me and Gimme, gimme Dan, we choose to run down. And you don't want to compromise, you know, your, your, your pattern. You don't want to compromise your, Your system. But again, you get old. You gotta tweak the system. You gotta make some compromises. But nonetheless, that's a hard hike. And I do it frequently enough to be used to it, but it's still. It's still fucking hard. So that's the limit. I don't need to necessarily push myself beyond the limits I'm comfortable with of just staying in shape. I've never been one of these guys that's had to achieve, you know, kind of personal, monumental bests in the form of, you know, doing something that no one else does. Not jumping out of planes, you know, I'm not climbing Everest. Which comes to my guest right now. My. My special guest, this guy. All right, look, we posted something on the full Marin bonus feed last week. And we figured, you know, we'd share some of it with the whole audience today. Cause it was, you know, it's a unique piece of conversation. If you don't know about the Friday show on the full Marin. My producer, Brendan McDonald and my board op and coworker from back in the day, Chris Lopresto, do a bonus show every week where they recap everything. Basically in the WTF orbit. Last week they had a guest on Darby Allen, okay? He's an AEW wrestler and a pro skateboarder. And he also just got back from the, from the top of Mount Everest. And look, I've never spoken with anyone who climbed Mount Everest before, so. So they had me come on to the Friday show and talk with Darby now. Okay, a couple of things. He'll be auctioning off some items from his climb to raise money for Tony Hawk's skateboard project. But he also has other reasons. He wanted to make the climb and he told us about him. So this was me on the Friday show last week talking with Darby Allen over video chat from his home. Okay. And you'll hear Brendan here getting the introduction started.

[Brendan McDonald]

Well, Darby, good to meet you. Glad you're here with us. I figured it was a great time to have you on with Mark, because Mark is also a guy who. Who climbs a lot of mountains. He climbs them. Figuratively. He climbs them.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Literally.

[Brendan McDonald]

And. And I thought that you just came back from a mountain. And first of all, how are you?

[Dustin Chaffin]

Are you.

[Brendan McDonald]

Are you doing fine now that you're back?

[Darby Allin]

Yeah. No. Fuck. Yeah, I. I'm surprisingly feeling great. I thought, you know, coming back, I was going to be all mangled and shit, and it was going to be like, snap back. Because in my. Outside of just wrestling, I skateboard all the time and I do all these other crazy stuff. So pretty much as soon as I got back, I was off to a plane to Bahamas to film Shark Week.

[Marc Maron]

So it was.

[Darby Allin]

It's like a whole thing. But my body feels great. I feel mentally great. And that's the coolest thing, is I've learned so much inside, within myself on that mountain. There's so much stuff I can get into when it comes to the life lessons that I've learned on that mountain, because a lot of people say it's not about summoning Mount Everest, it's about conquering, like, yourself and your inside and pulling stuff out. So.

[Chris Lopresto]

Okay.

[Dustin Chaffin]

All right, Well, I got some questions then. What? Let's start with the dead people. Now, how many dead people did you walk by?

[Darby Allin]

I. I believe there was, like, a total of eight. But, you know, the crazy thing is, when I went up and then I instantly, when I did the summit, I was coming back down. You see all these new dead bodies that you didn't see within the last 12 hours that were.

[Dustin Chaffin]

That just got there.

[Darby Allin]

Yeah. Like new ones that died. Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

People just dropping dead up there, like, every day.

[Darby Allin]

Oh, I don't know about every day. But it was literally. I went up, I. When I did the summit, and then I was coming down, all of a sudden, you see a new dead body that wasn't there on the trail 12 hours ago.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Different jacket.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Darby Allin]

It was. It was pretty crazy because then you start thinking about your own situation, and obviously they don't go there with the death wish. They go there thinking, oh, shit, like, I'm going to do this motherfucking mountain. And then it just doesn't work out. It's just like. You're like, oh, my God, how the Sherpas, they just, like, leave. It's just like a whole thing.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah. I don't know. Why? I don't know why they leave there, but maybe the guy's like, you know, I'm going to climb this fucking mountain if it's the last thing I do. And it turns out it was.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Darby Allin]

There is a thing called summit fever where people just don't know when to turn around. And I felt that. I felt that 100%, because when I was climbing summit day, we left Camp 4 at 11pm and I was going for the summit. And then out of fucking nowhere, there's this traffic jam. You hear. You hear these stories of traffic jams all the time.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Darby Allin]

But here it was just a good weather day, so everybody wanted to almost summit like that day. And you know, you think about the grand scheme of people on Everest. Only a little over 400 permits were issued this year. You know, people like, oh, my God, everybody and their mom's doing fucking Everest. Like, that's not the case. 400 people in the whole fucking world doing this mountain.

[Dustin Chaffin]

But, like, in general, do you just by judging by the way you live your life, do you know when to turn around?

[Darby Allin]

No, not really. Because I'll explain. I'll explain in detail about the whole psychology behind the way I live and why I live the way I live. But it's like the first thing, when I was about to do this mountain, the guy asked me, are you willing to die on that mountain? And then you're like, yeah, absolutely. Because if you're not, don't even step foot on the mountain because you got loved ones. You got all this shit. Like, my mom and my brother walked to Base Camp with me. And I remember my brother and my mom after it was time for them to leave. And I'm staying there to get ready to do this mountain. And I remember them walking away, and I'm like crying to myself thinking, this is not going to be the last time I see them. And this is. And then I was like, I need to, like, be so strong and finish this mountain. And it just puts things in perspective where you're like, damn, man. I could see if I have, say, a family with, like, kids and stuff, I wouldn't. I almost feel like I wouldn't be on that mountain because it's. It's kind of a selfish thing to do. But at the same time, it just. It becomes really real fast.

[Dustin Chaffin]

It's a high price to pay for recreation.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah, but.

[Darby Allin]

But it's. It's just such a spiritual journey and.

[Chris Lopresto]

Okay.

[Darby Allin]

Pulling stuff out of you. And like I said, when I got to the top of the Mountain. I was crying. It was just such a overwhelming feeling of accomplishment, and it's like pulling something out of yourself and. But, you know, you hear this. The traffic jams. It goes back to the traffic jams. You hear all this stuff about the traffic jams, and then instantly we're climbing, and then all of a sudden, everything just stops. And you're like, oh, shit, what's going on? And then there's about a little over 100 people in this line, and you're not moving on the side of the mountain for an hour, over an hour. You're standing in the same spot. And I start to panic because I feel like I see all the Sherpas that I'm with, they're getting cold. They're smacking their hands together, stomping their feet. And I was like, oh, these guys. And I was like, what's going on? Like, oh, yeah, traffic jam. And I was like, damn. And then I was like, people are running out of their oxygen tanks. And some people are, like, turning back and just be like, yo, this. And then I could see right there. I was like, how am I going to explain to anybody I didn't do Everest because of a traffic jam? It was such a hard thing. You know, you kind of just hit the panic button. You're like, I. I felt 100% summit fever on that mountain at that time. I was like, I'm gonna die on this mountain before I turn back. And it's a real thing. And.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Oh, you mean summit. Summit fever is. You got to get there, not, like an actual physical sickness.

[Darby Allin]

Yeah, it's a mental thing where you're. You're thinking, oh, man, I, I, you know, so much goes into it. So much time, the money, just everything that goes into. And you just. Me, like, in the sense of being like, you know, publicly saying I'm climbing Mount Everest. So there's, like, these expectations that, like, oh, this guy's going to fucking do this. And I was like, man, I got to do this, because the year before I was supposed to climb, I broke my foot in a match a week before I was supposed to fly out.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I just don't get, like, if they only gave out 400, you know, permits for the year, were all 400 on the mountain the same day you were?

[Darby Allin]

No. So it's all spread out. People pick different summit days, and it's like, it's just a weather window. But the day I was going, it felt like there was, like, 160 people going for the summit from Camp 4, which up there Seems like a lot when. When it happens, but it was just. Yeah, there. It was really crazy just being up there and you kind of. And I'm no mountain expert. I don't. I don't claim to be a mountain expert. I just claim to work really hard and dedicate myself quick and apply myself and. And just seen a lot of people up there that had no business of being up there where they're. It's like, holy. This is crazy.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Like. Like families with kids or something.

[Darby Allin]

Well, just physically. Physically not being, like.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Right, right.

[Darby Allin]

And they're just getting pulled up. And in a lot of cultures, some cultures, it's like, if you climb Mount Everest, you get a promotion in your job, and then. Yeah, it's crazy because then some people go do it, but they can't summit, so they Photoshop themselves on top of the mountain to get the summit, and then they find out that it's fake, and they fire this guy.

[Brendan McDonald]

Stolen mountain valor.

[Darby Allin]

And then I was like, dude, I got it. I got to some of this. I can't Photoshop myself on Everest.

[Marc Maron]

But it was.

[Darby Allin]

Yeah, it was very humbling, but it just comes from, you know, I don't know how. Yeah, it just. There's a lot of moving parts that. Of why I even wanted to start the fucking mountain in the first place.

[Dustin Chaffin]

But based on, like, you know, like, what you do for a living and how you've lived your life and sort of acknowledging that a lot of that, you know, comes from whatever damage you have in your childhood. Were you able to let go any of that going up there?

[Darby Allin]

Yeah. Well, it's also just letting this. Proving to yourself that you're capable of anything. And I know that sounds generic, but honestly, we live in the world. In the professional wrestling world, the guy who runs the show controls how far you're gonna make it or how low you're gonna make it. So someone's in control of your destiny. It's not like, say, boxing or, you know, mixed martial arts, where I'm gonna prove I'm the best by knocking you out. It doesn't work like that in the world of wrestling. There's so much, you know, politicking and random that goes into it. And I wanted to just prove to myself I'm capable of this, because you can't politic your way up that mountain. You.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah, you can't.

[Darby Allin]

There's no helicopter that goes up that high where you can jump out and take a nice little photo on the sunbed and be like, yo, I climbed Everest. And just lie to people you gotta scratch and call your way up that. And then that's where it was so humbling to remind myself what I'm capable of. Because you get into the world of wrestling, there's nothing else like the world of wrestling. To me, it's like the most amazing job in the world from someone like myself because it's like stunts acting. It checks off all the boxes that I'm very passionate about. But on the flip side, like I said, someone else is control of your destiny. Someone else's control of how far you're going to make it, how low you're going to make it. Because you can have this passion. I'm the fucking man. It's like, well, no, you're not. You're going to be losing every week. And it's just like, I don't know, it's just. Dude, I see the world of wrestling and I love, like I said, I love fucking wrestling. But it's kind of crazy how people get into this small bubble and then allows them to be chewed up and spit out. Because all it is is a 15 minute ride.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah.

[Darby Allin]

And then if you don't focus on your fucking real life, it's gonna chew you up and spit you out and you're gonna believe your own hype. And the next thing you know, you're being this character that you are on TV in real life and it's like, dude, detach. I always wanted to be the person coming into the world of wrestling. I always wanted to leave the same person coming out. I didn't want to just all sudden get this ego and just all of a sudden believe in my own hype. And like, I'm Darby Allen, it's like, shut the up, dude. And there's, there's like a bunch of like little parts in it. And to be able to do this mountain in the middle of what I feel is my physical peak, where I feel amazing. And Tony Khan, the owner of aew, being like, yo, do this, it's like cool. Because a lot of people in the world of wrestling, man, they, they just chew you up and spit you out and leave you with nothing. And the fact that he allowed me to do this is. I'm so grateful for it. And you know, it's funny because we did so much just. I don't know, it started from an early age of trying to push myself out of my comfort zone. And the moment I started doing crazy shit is when I started breaking down these mental barriers in my head that were holding me back. And then next Thing I know, like, that's kind of. That was my ammo to keep moving forward. Because no one, I. I say no one's willing to go to the places I'm willing to go in wrestling physically. And I mean that. And I was like, yeah, nobody's. The more I do crazy shit, the more I feel and, you know, anything's possible.

[Dustin Chaffin]

How does it feel when you get hurt? You like it?

[Darby Allin]

It's. Yeah. No, because, dude, the thing is, I do so much physical recovery. People don't know my physical recovery regimen and everything. There's so much that goes into that. So I feel great. Everyone's like, you're not gonna be able to walk when you're 30. And I'm like, well, I'm 32 right now, and I feel great. And, you know, but it's just like, just keeping updated with all that stuff.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Wait, so how do you. How do you. Rehab or your. What's your regimen for it? You know, jumping off of a 20 foot ladder onto, you know, glass.

[Darby Allin]

You know, honestly, I feel like the years of skateboarding got me ready for that because nothing's harder than concrete. Landing on concrete and doing all this. It just. But it's like the physical recovery afterwards is just like a lot of, like stretching the ice bath and then, like I said, it's like mental too. If you take care of your brain, your body just feels like nice and loose. People carry so much tension, you know, just being tense all the time and their body just breaks down from their minds being, you know.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So when. So when you're falling from a ladder, you're pretty relaxed?

[Marc Maron]

Yes.

[Darby Allin]

Oh, yeah, no, absolutely. Absolutely. And just goes back to the. Before I jump off the ladders or crazy. I'm like, I say to myself, I'm going to the hospital tonight.

[Marc Maron]

And it's just like.

[Darby Allin]

It is like, so. It's so you're at peace. You got to be at peace with it. You got to be at peace with the worst to come. Just like Everest, that. You got to be at peace with it.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Did you follow it? Did you fall at all on Everest? Did you go tumbling?

[Darby Allin]

No. No. You're pretty strapped in to the safety rope at all times.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Oh, okay.

[Darby Allin]

Yeah, yeah, you're pretty. But that. You know, I seen a lot of people get helicoptered out and shit, like from Camp 3, and Camp 3 is a little over 23,000ft. It was fucking gnarly and. But you just have to stay, like, focused. And I remember being in that tent for, you know, like all day Just being like, you might die tonight or you might die tomorrow. And you're just like, you're constantly telling yourself, but how do you.

[Dustin Chaffin]

How do people die up there?

[Marc Maron]

What?

[Dustin Chaffin]

Hypothermia. What is.

[Darby Allin]

Can be anything. It could be anything. It could be like sometimes people's bodies just give out. It's not so much hypothermia, I feel like, because they got so much new, know, equipment and staying warm and everything.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Darby Allin]

I just think it's pure exhaustion.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Well, you know, nothing about what you're. What you're saying makes me want to do it.

[Darby Allin]

But Mark, that, that's the fun part. That's the fun part is because the, that no one else wants to touch is the places I'm willing to go. Because just like all those years ago when people told me I wasn't going to amount to, now it's like finding new things to keep accomplishing and pushing yourself constantly out of your comfort zone. But I, I just never wanted to try. Try to appease people to the point where it was a detriment to my own, you know, growth as a human. And then, you know, so this whole self exploring with the Everest and everything, it was just very awesome. And then this is a funny story because when I first started going to agree to do Everest, I was a single man. So I was like, oh, well, there's no freaking thing I have to worry, you know, nobody has it. But then halfway through, I reconnect with this girl I had a crush on in the school bus in high school in Seattle. Yeah, I had a crush on her and then we reconnected and then all of a sudden we start dating. So it's a whole new level of like, oh, now if I die, I.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Feel like, yeah, she'll be sad.

[Darby Allin]

Yeah. But it's. It's a crazy story because I had a crush on her in high school, and then she ended up getting shot in the head.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Wow. What the fuck? Jesus Christ.

[Darby Allin]

Yeah, she ended up getting shot in the head in high school. And I was like, oh, my God. This crush of mine from the school bus got murdered. But she luckily survived.

[Dustin Chaffin]

How did, how did she recover from getting shot in the head?

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Darby Allin]

Oh, she became. That inspired her to become an ICU nurse.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Oh, wow. Oh, wow. That's awesome.

[Darby Allin]

But fast forward, I'm on top of Everest on the summit, and I, I filmed this video where I proposed to her.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Oh, no shit.

[Darby Allin]

Yeah, so it was like, so, yeah, now we're engaged, but it's like a fun, like, full circle moment. But I'm thinking the whole time now, I'm not just worrying about myself. I'm worrying about.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Sure.

[Darby Allin]

This future wife of mine and all this stuff. Like, you gotta. You gotta make it out alive, you know, and at such a level of, oh, my God, like this. You can't be selfish anymore. You. Like I said with my brother and my mom, like, dude, I got to survive for them. I got to survive for this, you know, fiance and all this stuff. It's.

[Chris Lopresto]

What do you.

[Dustin Chaffin]

What are you going to do about this? I mean, I got to assume that because of the way you've lived your life, your whole life, that you're kind of, you know, addicted to the thrill of it. Do you see that letting up at all?

[Darby Allin]

No.

[Marc Maron]

No.

[Darby Allin]

Absolutely not.

[Dustin Chaffin]

That's good.

[Darby Allin]

I never want to lose that. That. That's never going to be lost on me because. Yeah, I. Dude, I spent so many times in Seattle just staring at a wall and being like, there's a whole world out there, and the moment I get a taste of it, I'm never gonna let up. And that's the. You know, I don't know. It's been. It's been a wild ride. But the beauty of it all is, like I said earlier, Tony Khan just being like, yo, dude, I want you to live your life outside of the ring and be happy. And that's. That's. That's the cool balance. That's. That's something I can never take for granted.

[Dustin Chaffin]

And it's something Vince McMahon would never say.

[Chris Lopresto]

Probably.

[Darby Allin]

Definitely not. It's like, yeah, I. I feel. Yeah, no, I. I just feel so free. And I. I, I told Tony before I left for Everest, I had to talk with him, and I was like, hey, man, I just. I already feel like I'm the champion of the world. I don't. I don't need the championship belt, per se, to feel validated because I'm already winning in life. I feel so free, and I feel so, like, happy. I was like, dude, I don't. I'm just grateful for everything.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Belt would be nice, though, right?

[Darby Allin]

Depends on. I don't know, man. Yeah, I really. I don't. I really don't give a shit. I'm going to be honest with you. I. It's just so much. People are so concerned with winning this thing, but I just want to. I just want to have good storylines.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Darby Allin]

I just want to have good storylines. I'm not trying to be like, I need to be the top guys. I just want to have good shit.

[Brendan McDonald]

But that's great. You got Shark Week coming up there is all in Texas coming up. So your date card is full, but we, we appreciate you taking the time to come on here with us while we're, we're in the process of wrapping up.

[Darby Allin]

Thanks for having me on.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Well, it's great meeting you, man.

[Darby Allin]

Yes, sir.

[Dustin Chaffin]

There you go. As you heard, Darby will be at the AEW All In Pay Per View this Saturday, July 12. He'll be part of Discovery's Shark Week on Thursday, July 24. The show caught shark strike back back. And he's raising money for Tony Hawk's skate park project to bring skate parks to neighborhoods that can't afford them. Okay. Visit skatepark.org to learn more. All right, look, folks, it's summertime, but instead of relaxing, you are stuck in a meal planning rut. Are you cycling through the same old dinners while juggling work, family, and your summer activities? Home Chef can break the monotony and free up your time with with fresh, easy to follow meal kits offering healthy and exciting dishes delivered right to your doorstep, giving you more sunshine and less stress. Users of leading meal kits have rated Home Chef number one in quality, convenience, value and taste and recipe ease. Home chef has over 30 options a week and serves a variety of dietary needs. For my type of diet this week, there's butternut squash and fig mini flatbreads or meatless lentil ragu over pasta. But you can customize it for the menu options that work best for you. For a limited time, Home chef is offering WTF listeners 18 free meals, plus free dessert for life and of course, free shipping. On your first box. Go to homechef.com WTF that's homechef.com WTF for 18 free meals and free dessert for life. Stop trying to figure out what to make for dinner and open the door for Home chef. Again, that's homechef.com WTF and you must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert for life. Okay, here we go. Dustin Chaffin is here. And again, Dustin and I go way back, but I don't think we've really talked for like 20 years. You can find his tour dates and watch his [e-mail]. this is me talking to my old pal Dustin. Pull that mic up on your face.

[Marc Maron]

There we go.

[Dustin Chaffin]

You know how to do the podcast thing?

[Marc Maron]

I've been on a few.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Look a little confused by the microphone.

[Marc Maron]

I love it. The New York Hazen.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Is that what it is?

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah, it's great.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I don't know. I think I've done it before. New York. It's only certain people I can land it with.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I think you've always been one of them. I don't know why. I just wanted to bust your balls constantly.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah. It's some of it I talk about in therapy still.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Oh, wow.

[Marc Maron]

It's great. Oh, yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

No, well, there was more back then. You had a whole get up going.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah, that was the best. One time you said to me, you go, yeah, this outfit, it's like, you know when you see somebody in LA and you just look at them, you go, that's sad. I think I burned those pants. Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Or were they like leather or snakeskin or something?

[Marc Maron]

You know, it's whatever. You go with the girl that's you're with and they're always like, they try to dress you and you're like, so.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So that was the situation.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah, that was all. That's always a situation.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Well, that's. That, that shows a bit of lack of will. It does on your part.

[Marc Maron]

You know, I don't know.

[Dustin Chaffin]

But at that time, like. So you think it's been 20 years.

[Marc Maron]

Since I've seen you, like, had a conversation? Because we were, I felt like we were, you know, kind of close for a minute and then we had a little falling out and then I hadn't seen you in a long time.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Do you remember what the falling out was about?

[Marc Maron]

Absolutely. Can we just get into it?

[Dustin Chaffin]

How long ago was that?

[Marc Maron]

Well, I would. Yeah. I mean, I want to talk about when I first met you, though. We will do that.

[Chris Lopresto]

We will.

[Marc Maron]

We'll get to that later. Do you want the falling out first?

[Dustin Chaffin]

No, I'm curious because maybe we can, maybe I can ease your mind.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Dustin Chaffin]

At the beginning. Well, am I the bad guy?

[Marc Maron]

You're not. Not really.

[Chris Lopresto]

All right.

[Marc Maron]

I think it's kind of funny. I, I think I was dealing with it in the best situation. It was like I, I, you, I think I came at you in a comic way and you needed me to come to you in a human way. And it was one of those situations.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Oh, really?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Because your second wife and Mishnah. Yeah, Mishnah, you know, she used to make us go to those one woman shows she was doing. Sure. You know, she was like working them out.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

It'll be like six of us there.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And so I went to quite a few of them, you know, and it was always only like five or six of us.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And then when you guys are going through A divorce?

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I said. I said, hey, man, I'm sorry you're going through this, but at least we don't have to go to those shows anymore. And you went off on me.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Really?

[Marc Maron]

And you're like, who the are you with your cowboy hat? And you just like went off and I was just like, dude, I just. I really thought that was the best thing I could have said.

[Dustin Chaffin]

It is, actually.

[Marc Maron]

And it was just. I guess you were in a place.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Oh, you know. Why is. Because she left me.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Okay.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So. So. So it was. It wasn't like I was over anything.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I got you do you know still tender. Yeah, right.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Exactly like, you know, I mean, it was. That's a pretty good line.

[Marc Maron]

I thought so. Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Well, I thought.

[Marc Maron]

I thought I was crush. Going to crush with that.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah. And there we didn't talk for years.

[Marc Maron]

It was kind after that.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Well, he still had the cowboy hat.

[Marc Maron]

Broke my heart. Yeah. It's okay.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I stopped wearing, you know. Yeah, well, that, that took time. Should give me the heads up when he stopped and I would have talked to you again. Sounds like it was mostly about the cowboy hat.

[Marc Maron]

I don't know. You got a lot of heroes who wore cowboy hats. You know, that's the thing.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah. Do I?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Like who?

[Marc Maron]

I don't know.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Like, I didn't like it when Bill Hicks wore a cowboy hat. I didn't like.

[Marc Maron]

That was perfect. That was like. That was part of the whole, like Stevie Ray Vaughan.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah, I get it. But you know, I barely like it. Well, he can wear it because he's got everything else going. Not a lot of Indian jewelry and got the Stratocaster and he can do something. I get it's a get up, but in comedy it's like, do we need the hats?

[Marc Maron]

I don't know. I think that's why we do comedy. So you can wear the hat whatever you want.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah, but you were doing a whole thing. You had boots, you were flipping your hands funny. You had a whole.

[Marc Maron]

It was from Texas.

[Chris Lopresto]

There's a whole package.

[Marc Maron]

Nervous sounds from Texas.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Is it what you're ticking. You still have it?

[Marc Maron]

Not as much. I've grown a lot. Well, no, I'm a better comic, but.

[Dustin Chaffin]

It was the early days comic, but for me it felt like he's working this hook, this weird tilt thing.

[Marc Maron]

It's. It comes and now.

[Dustin Chaffin]

See, like I now you probably. You probably still do it and I'm just beating you up again.

[Marc Maron]

No, I just eyeballing that Zen because I got off him, but.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Oh, why'd you get off him? Let me ask you, was it making you tired?

[Marc Maron]

No, I think it was just. I think when you go in for your insurance and stuff, if you have nicotine in your blood, like. Oh, is that true? I think so, yeah. That's what I was told.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Wait, so that you, you had to get a blood test for insurance?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Now I'm saying it like that.

[Marc Maron]

If you have nicotine in your blood system or whatever, it's like a whole thing.

[Dustin Chaffin]

No kidding.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I had no idea. So. But I didn't know you had it. So you're trying to get new insurance.

[Marc Maron]

It wasn't just that. I think I just like, I go from one addiction to another and I was just like. And I was just trying to tell myself, all right, I'm quit this right now.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, it's like I thought that too, unfortunately. I thought like, well, these have got to be with my gums. And then I went to the dentist and they're not okay because I thought they were causing my recession. The dentist said, well, I've always had recession. He goes, no, your, your gums are actually more healthy than most people that come in here because I floss them and everything. But they're receded. But I thought that I was just. Those are doing. But I, I don't. They can't be good for you.

[Marc Maron]

Well, nicotine, I think is. I don't know what that does. Nobody really knows what that does.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I'm sure they know.

[Marc Maron]

What do you think it does?

[Dustin Chaffin]

Well, I think it constricts your, your blood vessels. I think there's a reason why you get the, the high or the low with it. You know, it's a complex drug, but I think if you're not smoking it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I think most of the damage from smoking comes from the heat and the other shit in there and tobacco, but like sort of non tobacco nicotine. I don't think it's good for your blood vessels in a. I've heard that it's probably not great for your pancreas.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

But you know, trying to, you know, just, you know, keep. Well, you know what I'm saying.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Just trying to stay well with the addiction. So I don't. So you're off everything?

[Marc Maron]

Everything. 17 years Saturday.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Well, how long after Zen?

[Marc Maron]

After Zen, about a year.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So cigarettes, everything. And how long after those?

[Marc Maron]

Probably about three years. I went back and that's when I got to the Zen's. Sure. American. I love cigarettes, man. I love anything about it. I can't I really see somebody smoking? It's always like, you know, some raggedy person. It's like, what are you doing? But then I'm. But I miss it.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I don't know if I miss it anymore because it's been a very long time since I smoked cigarettes every day. And then I go through cigars sometimes I go through, like, dip pouches. And the Zinn seemed to be a nice medium. I was off everything, like, literally everything for three years once, and it felt fine. But then eventually, it's sort of like, what, you know, fine isn't great. I need a little bump or something.

[Marc Maron]

Cool. Caffeine and nicotine is the perfect combination.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I've gone off caffeine, too. I was off that, too. Yeah. But then it's just like. It's kind of flat, you know, it's sort of like, you know, like. Yeah, it's good, I guess.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Whereas, like, you know, when you're just chasing it all the time. Yeah, but so I guess, like, I check in on you occasionally. I remember a few years ago, maybe it's been that long. I saw Nate and I said, how's. How's Dustin doing? He goes, I got him. He's all right. I got him.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I mean, you know, you need those guys sometimes, you know, you do. But you know what it's like, you know, he. When I, you know, I ran the Boston Comedy Club, you know, towards the end there, I was the guy, you know, that was running that and he.

[Dustin Chaffin]

In New York.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, in New York. And he was one of my barkers. It was him and Pete Holmes and.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Like, you know, so I was long gone.

[Marc Maron]

You were. You were doing other stuff. I loved watching what they tried to do with you. Yeah, that was. That was always fun.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Which one was that?

[Marc Maron]

Just all this stuff they tried to do, like, they try to make you a host, Like a talk show host.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Oh, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

That was interesting, just watching, you know, all that happen.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So what year are we talking?

[Marc Maron]

2004, maybe 2005, 2006. That's when I was at Boston, I think.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Oh. So I was gone, though. I mean, I was coming. I was here, I think.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You were doing stuff.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Well, I was back in New York in 2004. Right. You know, for Air America and then back again.

[Marc Maron]

That was fun to watch.

[Dustin Chaffin]

That, too, you're saying fun, like, what a disaster.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, a little bit, but it's amazing. But look where you are. I mean, just like, you've. You're. You're failing is epic and amazing and Then it's like, yeah, because they didn't know what to do with you.

[Dustin Chaffin]

No one knew what to do with. I didn't know what to do with me.

[Marc Maron]

No, not at all.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Zero idea. But when did you, like. Because like Nate, you know, when I'm. You know, when I kind of caught on to Nate before everyone else in Michigan, before he got anywhere, you know, he was like, yeah, I met you before, you know. But it was that room in Times Square, right?

[Marc Maron]

Oh, Broadway. Yeah. Upstairs.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah. That little fucking room.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. A little 80 seater.

[Dustin Chaffin]

And that was you running that.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

And Chubby Nate.

[Marc Maron]

Chubby Nate. Sweaty Nate with the little glasses and little vandy.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Chubby, sweaty, drunky Nate, who I didn't remember at all.

[Marc Maron]

Four joke Nate. Yeah. Well, a lot of us talk to you. It was. First time I talked to you was amazing. I saw you at the New York Comedy Club. I was a busboy. I just started doing that because.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Which one? The one on 24th.

[Marc Maron]

24Th.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Oh, my God. Yeah, that dump.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah. It was just held together by duct tape and tears.

[Dustin Chaffin]

But they had that George Foreman grill.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah. Well, I worked there. They didn't have that. They had a full kitchen. And I used to draw. I used to drop mozzarella sticks and french fries.

[Dustin Chaffin]

It couldn't have been a very big kitchen.

[Marc Maron]

It was pretty big.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Was it from another place?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, it used to be like a Thai restaurant or something before it was that.

[Dustin Chaffin]

And then there were like. Eventually there were three rooms. One room seated four people.

[Marc Maron]

And then what ended up happening is they couldn't move this stove out of the hallway, so they put up drywall there. Right now there's a stove in the. In. In the path to the stage. There's a. There's a full on stove in there covered with drywall. It's covered with drywall.

[Dustin Chaffin]

And there was that one bathroom with the sliding door.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

It's a disaster.

[Marc Maron]

It was horrible. But it was electric, man.

[Dustin Chaffin]

All right, so you saw me there first.

[Marc Maron]

It was CBGB's. It was. It was the thing. It didn't matter.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah, CBGB's, you know, for, you know, people that didn't necessarily have that much talent.

[Marc Maron]

Well, it was. It was. There was three guys. It was you, it was Todd, Barry and Attell, and that was it.

[Dustin Chaffin]

We'd make the rounds there. But it was sort of like a B room.

[Marc Maron]

Sure, of course.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

But now all rooms are. I arguably be rooms.

[Marc Maron]

But you would work out there.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Sure.

[Marc Maron]

You know, but when I saw you come in, I Remember, you know, you came in with your perfect 90s hair, leather jacket, and you were talking and you, you were holding court and you. And you were talking about how you bombed in Australia. And I remember this being this thing and I. And then I think I didn't. I never heard a comic talk like that. Like, I never heard anybody like that vulnerable.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Made a career out of it. That's right.

[Marc Maron]

But it was amazing because everybody was trying to be cool and like, hey, I crushed or whatever. You were the first guy I ever heard like, just go, oh, it was terrible.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Sent me home. They hated sending me home from a country.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, did they?

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah. It's a week into a four week run and they're like, I don't think this is working out. I fucking bombed so hard I had to fly back home and I relapsed on that flight.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, wow, that was brutal, dude.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So. So that was memorable for you. You're like, oh, this.

[Marc Maron]

Well, you were just so honest and. And like, it was just great to hear that because I never heard any. I was brand new to comedy.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Never heard any. Everybody's always trying to flex and be a cool guy.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And you were just like, oh, man, it's horrible, dude. I grabbed the mic just. I couldn't get anything going. Like, it was just so beautiful because I hadn't experienced you yet. So it was like this beautiful manic thing happening and I was like, okay, all right. This guy. And then ever since I was following you and loved everything you did, I didn't care what kind of set it was, except for I couldn't wait to bomb and tell people that I bombed. Like, I thought that was the coolest thing.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

It was so punk rock.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah. And then.

[Dustin Chaffin]

And that's why you and I are where we at.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

That's why we've chosen the. The other path.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, well, you know.

[Dustin Chaffin]

No, but like. Yeah, yeah. You like everything I do, except for the things where they're trying to make me do things.

[Marc Maron]

No, I love that. I love watching them. They. You did. I mean, when I say felt, my God.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Look, look, I'm saying you're doing amazing.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, but it's like. No, but it's like, it's like they never quite got it.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And I think you had to do stuff like this.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah, I. I didn't quite get it.

[Marc Maron]

To be.

[Dustin Chaffin]

To be myself.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So that was the journey. But. So you were busting. Busting tables at New York.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Was that your first job?

[Marc Maron]

No, I mean, I guess.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I mean, when did you. When'd you get to New York?

[Marc Maron]

I went to Parsons in New York. I got there around really 90s, I guess. 95 or 96.

[Dustin Chaffin]

You went to art school?

[Marc Maron]

Went to art school, man.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Then you finished?

[Marc Maron]

I did. I got a bachelor's.

[Dustin Chaffin]

And what. What were you?

[Marc Maron]

Well, in fine arts, but a fashion was what I wanted to do. Oh. I wanted to do.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Oh. So now, like, I'll let you. I'll let you off the hook with the hat and the boots. You're.

[Marc Maron]

You're just a weird fashion guy.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah. You're just working on something, just trying.

[Marc Maron]

To put it all together.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Fashion. So that was the dream?

[Marc Maron]

I think so.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I just were going to design shit.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, mostly. I want to be Karl Lagerfeld, man. Oh, okay. I wonder. Just the ponytail with the chicks. I had no idea what it was.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Oh, so you were just in it for the. For the women?

[Marc Maron]

No, but I. I do love fashion.

[Dustin Chaffin]

That's interesting, though. But you didn't necessarily want a regular education. You were going to go to New York and be a fashion guy?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I mean, I wasn't that great at school, but I was good at drawing and stuff.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Where'd you come from?

[Marc Maron]

Texas. Dallas. Fort Worth area.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Really?

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Born in Kilgore, Texas. Kilgore Trailer park town, yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Were you in a trailer park?

[Marc Maron]

When I was a kid, yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So your family lived in a trailer park?

[Marc Maron]

When I was a little kid, yeah.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Up until infant to, like, sex.

[Dustin Chaffin]

The whole family.

[Marc Maron]

Whole family, yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Stayed together?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. My dad married my mom. She had two kids.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And then had me.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And then we.

[Dustin Chaffin]

You were the third kid of this.

[Marc Maron]

The third kid of them, yeah. She had two different. Two different dads, as you know.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Oh, she was married before your dad?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah, twice.

[Chris Lopresto]

So you got.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Oh, so they're all separate.

[Marc Maron]

They're all brother. They're both. Both half brothers. Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

But they all have separate fathers?

[Marc Maron]

Yes.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Oh, that's exciting.

[Chris Lopresto]

Do you still.

[Marc Maron]

They had. They had the double Christmases. I hated it.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Double presents. You get along with those guys?

[Marc Maron]

Nah, one. No. One. I can't. One is dead to me. And then one just got sober, so I'm okay with him because, you know.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So everybody was up.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah. Whole family's up.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Really? What'd your dad do?

[Marc Maron]

Well, he sold. He was a salesman. He sold, like, fire alarms. Like, they used to be these big metal fire alarms back in the 70s.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

If you remember those at all. Like, he sold those.

[Chris Lopresto]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

They said fire on him.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. He Sold them in the trailer park. And then he, then he got a job selling cars and we kind of moved out of the park. Yeah, we ended up in Wichita Falls and Kansas. No, Texas. Wichita Falls, Texas.

[Chris Lopresto]

Oh, okay.

[Marc Maron]

It's about 200 miles from Dallas.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So you're real born in the blood Texan.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah. So that's why the, you know, the cowboy, it's, it's once, you know all that, it makes more sense. I'm not defending it, I'm just saying it just makes more sense.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah, but it wasn't, you know, you weren't wearing it like you rode something. You weren't, you weren't wearing it like you worked in the cowboy hat.

[Marc Maron]

My, my high school had a rodeo team.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Were you on that?

[Marc Maron]

No.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Look, dude, I, I'll be honest with you. I, you know, I went to a camp when I was younger in, In Pecos, New Mexico, where you were required to have a. A cowboy hat because you were going to be riding horses.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I've ridden horses.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So I've owned a couple of Stetson's. The straw ones, not the felt ones. And I've gone through periods with hats. I've bent them down like you did. You make the point on it so you can look like Willie, you know? Yeah, I've done that, you know, but it's a long time ago. I wore out several different pairs of black cowboy boots. I, I'm not, I'm not adverse to it. I was just.

[Marc Maron]

I've seen your cowboy shirts. I've seen your leather pants. I went through that phase.

[Dustin Chaffin]

The leather pants I still have. I'm going to get back to them.

[Marc Maron]

It's a good time.

[Dustin Chaffin]

They never worked for me. And they worked. Not really.

[Marc Maron]

You get them on a special, didn't you?

[Dustin Chaffin]

No. On Conan once.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I remember I never wore the leather pants on a special.

[Marc Maron]

You did. What was that special you did where you, you smelled Morrison's boot just to smell the magic or something. Remember that one? Oh, it was like a hard rock or something.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You just smelled the boot just to smell the magic.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I remember that joke.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I think it was a hard rock that you went into and then.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah, right.

[Marc Maron]

I grabbed the boot.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I don't know if I did that on a special, but I did that first special at The Fillmore in 95, the half hour. But that was just black jeans, black shirt. I think I didn't even wear the cowboy.

[Marc Maron]

I think you improv something up top and that, that was a big deal to us.

[Chris Lopresto]

Oh, yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah, about that. Just improv about the venue.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

She just went off, dude.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I know.

[Marc Maron]

On a special.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I know. That dumbest thing I ever did. Half that special was I just like. I was like, I'm not gonna prepare, man. I'm glad somebody appreciated the completely irresponsible punk rock nature of whatever the I was doing, because I didn't see it as punk rock. I was just sort of like, I gotta be in it, man.

[Marc Maron]

No, I love all that. It was great.

[Dustin Chaffin]

But so wait, so your whole family was boozy?

[Marc Maron]

Boozy? My dad had a. Like a bar. Oh, the Chafing Downtown Lounge.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Oh, so he had a professional place to drink.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah. And it was basically a biker bar. It was like all the Spider gang or those gangs were there.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And so. But we were always there. I mean, we'd be playing pinball, Kiss, pinball machine, and then just all this. Biker activities.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know, be sitting at a bar.

[Dustin Chaffin]

You know, isn't anywhere there's more than one biker considered biker activity. There's two of them. Something's going on.

[Marc Maron]

Something's going on. They're playing cards. I don't know. It's getting rowdy.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah, something's going to go bad here. Uh oh, here comes another guy with another jacket. That's going to end badly. Guy with a different jacket doesn't have a shot in this situation.

[Marc Maron]

I'd just be drinking Shirley Temple nipples at a. You know, at the bar next to some dude that's probably facing manslaughter.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah, sure. Or on the run from something.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah. But it turned into a strip club.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Okay.

[Marc Maron]

Because like, the old lady just decided to just take her top off one night.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Oh, your mom?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Is that what you're talking about?

[Marc Maron]

No, not my mom. They call, you know, the biker they call old lady.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Oh, yeah, sure. Okay.

[Chris Lopresto]

Okay. Okay. Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I'm like, this is getting really interesting.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I mean, but she. Yeah. So then it just became a strip club.

[Dustin Chaffin]

The biker chicks would take their shirts off everywhere.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, I know. But then you try to do like, legit stripper club.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Okay. How'd that go?

[Marc Maron]

It did. Okay. Mom shut it down after about a year.

[Dustin Chaffin]

But when she found out about it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, they were kind of hiding it from her, I think.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. It was kind of like what happens at the Chafing Downtown Lounge. So.

[Dustin Chaffin]

But I imagine that, you know, the behavior once it became a strip club biker bar that your dad was getting into some pretty messy.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah. Just guns at the house. No, he died a Couple years ago.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Sorry.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Guns, you know, guns are around. I mean, I grew up in New Mexico, and everyone's got a gun, but, like, it's.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, on the table, like. Like this knife is like a handgun would just be right there. Just. I mean, I mean, I think it's legal now. Yeah. I would pick one. I remember I picked one up and just started running around the house and there.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

It was a whole thing.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Got a little trouble.

[Marc Maron]

A little bit.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Trouble. Pull it. Pull a gun on my dad once.

[Chris Lopresto]

You did?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

With intent.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. He was smacking my mom.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Jesus Christ. So. And how'd that go? How'd that end up with you pulling a gun?

[Marc Maron]

He stopped.

[Dustin Chaffin]

And did that stick, though?

[Marc Maron]

I think so. It freaked him out.

[Dustin Chaffin]

How old were you?

[Marc Maron]

12, maybe.

[Chris Lopresto]

Ah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

It's that age where you can.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Know what's going on.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

You know, so you're.

[Marc Maron]

That anger starting to sink in a.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Little, and I think your mom probably was like, you know, you're probably your favorite after that, huh?

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Is she still around?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, she is.

[Dustin Chaffin]

What does she do?

[Marc Maron]

She's comic now. She's assistant living. Oh, yeah, Kind of. She's all right.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Got her head.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, that, that. She does have her legs, not so much. Oh, well, she's a hard time walking, but she's, you know, she's got. She's got her wits. She's funny.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Well, that's great.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So that sounds pretty dramatic, dude. So when did you finally get out of the family situation?

[Marc Maron]

I think. Well, I met a Mormon girl in high school.

[Dustin Chaffin]

That'll straighten you up.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

For a little while. Good for you. Life preserver came out of nowhere, pretty much.

[Marc Maron]

Because it's like the opposite world.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So it's like the opposite of what?

[Dustin Chaffin]

It's its own world.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But, yeah, no, I mean, I, I, I, you know, just going to somebody's house and cops not being called and, like, people eating dinner and, like, talking to each other, like, that was new to me.

[Dustin Chaffin]

No one's hitting your mom.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I don't have to pull a gun.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Out of the table.

[Marc Maron]

I put my gun away. You know, I have to be like, Mad Max.

[Dustin Chaffin]

But did they want you in? Did you get.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I got in, man. I went in hard. Oh, yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

It was like, full secret underpants and.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah, everything. Like. Well, I was with her, you know, this cute little blonde from Utah. That's how they get you.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

And then they send him out.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

This guy's prime. This guy's a mark. Look at him, he's all lost and angry. Doesn't like being at home. We'll take him.

[Marc Maron]

Cowboy hat. Let's get him.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

We broke up.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And then I think to get her back, I was like. I wanted to be a missionary, so I went all in with that.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I kind of think I knew this about you a little.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Because I think it was part of your backstory a little bit once you got out of it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So, okay, so you. So what'd you go to, Utah?

[Marc Maron]

Well, I went to the Provo Missionary Training Center.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Okay, so wait, so you meet the girl?

[Marc Maron]

Meet the girl.

[Dustin Chaffin]

She's not going to fuck you.

[Marc Maron]

We did. We did. She felt bad and that's why she broke up with me because she, you know, I made her a sinner, so she had nothing to do with me.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So this is at the beginning.

[Marc Maron]

The beginning?

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I wasn't supposed to go on a mission. They let me go anyway.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So, wait, so you walk in with this girl?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

You don't have sex for a while?

[Marc Maron]

We don't, but then we do.

[Chris Lopresto]

But.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Right, but. But at that point you already decided to go to do it?

[Marc Maron]

No, no, this is after we broke up.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Then I decided, and then she lost her spiraled. Now she's got to go back to the church and get clean somehow.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Then I got focused and said, I'll show you. I'll be super Mormon to get her back. Kind of. Probably. I don't know.

[Chris Lopresto]

Sure.

[Marc Maron]

You're just. You're young and stupid.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So you go to Provost.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Okay, so I get baptized. I got to get baptized first. So that happened. I wasn't Mormon yet.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So you got to get baptized in the Mormon faith.

[Marc Maron]

So we broke up. I got. I baptized. I became a Mormon, I did the whole thing. Then I went to Provo, Utah Missionary Training Center. They teach you how to manipulate people, baptize people, all that stuff. And Spanish, because I went to Santiago, Chile.

[Dustin Chaffin]

None of this helped your stand up? I think just the manipulating people would be an applicable skill.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I'm here. That's true.

[Dustin Chaffin]

That's true. He kept pushing, like out of nowhere. Hey, remember we were friends kinda. And I'm like, yeah, I'll see what I can do. And then again, hey, what's up?

[Marc Maron]

I knew better. I knew if I didn't hit you twice, I was gonna get lost under Nick Kroll's cousin or something. Yeah. So, yeah, so I did that and I went to.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Wait, what do they Teach you just.

[Marc Maron]

How to talk to people in public.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Okay, well, that's helpful.

[Marc Maron]

How to knock on a door and be, like, annoying. Yeah, pretty much.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Do you wear the suit?

[Marc Maron]

You had to wear the suit.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Got the name tag?

[Marc Maron]

Bicycle.

[Chris Lopresto]

Bicycle, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Here's a crazy story. Okay? So I. I do this thing, right? And I. I'm stateside waiting to go to Chile, and I get sick.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And I have prostate problem. This is all real. And I go to the doctor, and the doctor's like, okay, the only way you're gonna get rid of this prostate problem is if you masturbate. And so. But missionaries aren't allowed to masturbate.

[Dustin Chaffin]

But you're not drinking coffee.

[Marc Maron]

No, we can't do anything.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I know.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, but we can't.

[Dustin Chaffin]

We can't irritate the prostate sometimes.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

The coffee. No. No coffee.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So you were actually getting a prostate problem because of your commitment to Mormonism? You weren't.

[Marc Maron]

Because I wasn't jerking off. Pretty much, yeah. If you stop jerking off after you, I think it creates a thing. I mean, that's.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Especially if you're used to doing it, like, every day. It's almost like you're going to get withdrawal, get backed up. Yeah.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So.

[Marc Maron]

So, yeah, so you got to go to the doctor. And then. But missionary, wherever. We have a vow of celibacy, so we're not supposed to do any of that.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And so I go to the missionary president.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And. And they showing the description. But that's. But that's not enough. They get. They send it to Salt Lake, like the equivalent of the Elders.

[Dustin Chaffin]

The Elders had a fucking elders quorum.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah. In. In Salt. The Salt Lake Temple.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And so they prey on it.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Oh, wow.

[Marc Maron]

It's a whole, like.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah. You were the business for a couple of days. What are we going to do with this guy that needs to jerk off? So they asked their nine wives. We got to give them three women.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And so that comes back.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And then they say that I can do it. It becomes a thing. And so. But 5,000 missionaries, was it a written.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Permission kind of thing?

[Marc Maron]

Pretty much.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Wow.

[Marc Maron]

So out of 5,000 missionaries, I'm the only one that can, like, jerk off. Jerk off.

[Dustin Chaffin]

You're like a hero.

[Marc Maron]

I am. Well, I'm like a Judas to most of them.

[Chris Lopresto]

Oh, really?

[Marc Maron]

Because they were like, this freaking guy.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, wow.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So that was part of my repressed hate. They're like, what's this doctor's name? It's like guys going to get heroin from Guys who give out prescriptions.

[Marc Maron]

Sorry. Doctor's orders, man.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

What's the name of the doctor?

[Marc Maron]

Everybody's got a prostate problem.

[Dustin Chaffin]

The guy that broke the Mormon Church with the jerk off script broke it. So. So you're jerking off, you're feeling better.

[Marc Maron]

I'm feeling better. Then I gotta stop. I start to feel bad after a while. While it gets better. I get. I guess it passes if you.

[Chris Lopresto]

Okay, okay.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So then you locked back in. I log back in, and you're going door to door. The Watchtower magazine. Oh, no, that's the Jehovah.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So I'm in Chile. I'm in, you know, Santiago.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And then I end up in Robins. Caruso island, which is like.

[Dustin Chaffin]

That's a real place.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Well, it's easy. Le Juan Fernandez. It's an island, basically. It's like 250 miles off the ground coast of Chile.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Wow.

[Marc Maron]

And so I was there with like 200 people and.

[Dustin Chaffin]

With 200 people who live there.

[Marc Maron]

Who lived there. Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

And you're the only Mormon in a suit.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, there's two of us. Two Mormons. You always have to have a companion. So it's two of us. And then.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Wow. And. And that was the job. You had 200. It seems like at least a finite number. You'll know when you're done.

[Marc Maron]

Well, everybody's Catholic. It's Chile. Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

No, I get it. So.

[Marc Maron]

So there was like four probably. Probably five Mormons on the whole thing.

[Dustin Chaffin]

And what, that you got or. They were there.

[Marc Maron]

I never got anybody there.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Did you ever get anybody anywhere?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I did. I got like 12.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah, they still.

[Marc Maron]

Which is a big deal. I think a couple of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

All right. So you.

[Marc Maron]

I'm not. But they are.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I know. So you get back from Chile. How long were you there for?

[Marc Maron]

Two years.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Holy.

[Marc Maron]

Dude.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So like a whole other world in life.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, it's too.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So you come back and I see they meet you at the airport with the signs.

[Marc Maron]

Yay. They didn't.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Oh, cuz I. Mormons, huh?

[Chris Lopresto]

Whoa.

[Dustin Chaffin]

But you're in the game.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, but my mom doesn't care.

[Dustin Chaffin]

You know, every time I go to Salt Lake, there's some sort of.

[Marc Maron]

No, no, no.

[Dustin Chaffin]

That's what, Dress reception line.

[Marc Maron]

Well, that's what I was hoping for.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

It didn't happen. My mom, like showed up late. It was like. Really?

[Dustin Chaffin]

It's your mom's warming too?

[Marc Maron]

No, no, no, no. Not at all. They just kind of went with this whole thing.

[Dustin Chaffin]

They're like, he's not at the bar.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. At least he's not.

[Dustin Chaffin]

And you're not drinking or nothing?

[Marc Maron]

Nothing.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So what happens with the woman?

[Marc Maron]

I think she married a returned missionary dude. And, like, she has kids and stuff.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Oh, really?

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So what.

[Marc Maron]

How that I look?

[Dustin Chaffin]

When do you lose your faith? Were you brought up Christian?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, kind of.

[Dustin Chaffin]

But not heavy.

[Marc Maron]

Well, my parents would go back and forth. It was like they would get sober and then, you know, or my dad, when my dad would be broke, he would find God, you know, that was. I could always tell how much money we had or how many.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Well, he had.

[Chris Lopresto]

Him.

[Dustin Chaffin]

He just reintroduced himself.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

But that's a popular thing in the Christian prayer. Hey, you remember me? I'm back.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I mean, we had to. We had to burn our Kiss albums. Like, I mean.

[Dustin Chaffin]

No. You went that hard?

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah. There was in a church parking lot, just. I remember just, like, throwing.

[Dustin Chaffin]

That was the church. Was it Baptist?

[Marc Maron]

Something like that?

[Dustin Chaffin]

Something crazy.

[Marc Maron]

Pentecostally. I think they're speaking tongues, all that.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I think that's what it is.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Sure. That's Pentecostal. I think it's Baptist.

[Marc Maron]

And then we were allowed. We could. We could. Striper was the only band we could listen to.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Striper?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Remember that band?

[Dustin Chaffin]

I do kind of remember.

[Marc Maron]

Christian rock band.

[Dustin Chaffin]

That's the one problem I have with the idea. Well, that's not true. There's many problems, but it's like the one problem I have with the idea of a Christian nation. Just how bad everything's going to be.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Like Christian jazz.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Christian rock, Christian movies, Christian poetry, Christian novels. Just, like, take the fucking menace out of everything and make it just.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah. All the Christian actors are terrible.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Oh, Cavisio used to be good.

[Marc Maron]

What was it?

[Dustin Chaffin]

The guy who played Jesus in Mel's movie.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, that guy.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Mel's pretty good, too. But they're crazy Catholics.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. That's a different. That's a different energy, though.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Totally.

[Marc Maron]

That's not like that Bible belt energy.

[Dustin Chaffin]

No, it's not like. It's not like that's. That's one of Nate's best bits, the varieties of Christian, just based on his family's commitment and his siblings. It's great. And I told him that. I said, like, you know, no one has ever talked about it like that. Because there is. For most people, you know, if you're Jewish, you got a thing. You know, if you're, you know, Muslim, you got a thing. But Christians are just Christians. And to explore the varieties of kind of born Again, Christians, you know, their commitment at the beginning and watching it diminish with each kid. It's very funny.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So, all right. So anyway, I texted him. He didn't text me back. Am I on the outs? Am I bad? Am I. Isn't my.

[Marc Maron]

He's making a movie right now.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Okay, I'll let him off the hook.

[Marc Maron]

He's like, yeah, he's gonna be the next Steve Martin. He's doing that thing.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Well, we'll see. You know, he's got to be able to act it. I think he probably can. Another thing, they write it right for him.

[Marc Maron]

I feel like now he's at a point they're going to do it. They know what to do with him and his, with his delivery, with this SNL stuff. Like they know where his strengths are.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah, that's good. Yeah, that, that's, that's important for him.

[Marc Maron]

And like with you, it's like they.

[Dustin Chaffin]

You know, when they still don't know what to do, they're just.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, but you get to be Mark in those moments.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I'm glad he, he figured it out and we can have him over.

[Marc Maron]

He's got me, so that's all that matters.

[Chris Lopresto]

But, but.

[Dustin Chaffin]

All right, so. So how does the Mormon thing end?

[Marc Maron]

Finding comedy.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Oh, really? So you're, you're, you're in.

[Marc Maron]

I came to New York, but did you. I'm in art school.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Were you living in Utah?

[Marc Maron]

No, I was. Well, I went to byu. Idaho.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Which was like a. Wow, these are the worst places.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah. Rexburg, Idaho is where I was.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Brigham Young University in Idaho. I know. They had a franchise.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, they do have a franchise in Idaho. It was called Rick's College. Before it was like. It was. So that's when it's like the Mormon. It's like a Mormon community college. It's for people that can't get into byu.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Wow.

[Marc Maron]

And then, and then you go from there and you get into byu. But I ended up.

[Dustin Chaffin]

But you were still. You're believing you're wearing underwear. You're doing the whole thing.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, I was starting to slip a little. There were some moments. Coffee, girls and stuff.

[Chris Lopresto]

Oh, okay.

[Marc Maron]

That was always that. That was.

[Dustin Chaffin]

What is the process of sending and redemption on a day to day basis with, with Mormon ness? Like you. Okay, so you do something, you jerk off you. And then the next day you're like, what I do? Then what happens?

[Marc Maron]

It's a big deal. It's like a court thing.

[Dustin Chaffin]

You gotta own it in front of other people.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, it's the whole thing. It's not like Catholics, where you can just be anonymous and just go in and be like, hey.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Or just. Or just. Or Christians. You can just do it at home.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. You know, Or a hotel.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But this is.

[Chris Lopresto]

Is.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. So it's like a whole thing. You got. You gotta.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Like where it happens. A lot of prayers in hotel rooms.

[Marc Maron]

There's the Bible in there. Huh.

[Dustin Chaffin]

You gotta write that joke because that's where the sin happens, Right?

[Marc Maron]

Boom. That is funny.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I'm writing that down. You gotta write that down.

[Marc Maron]

And if it's a Marriott, it's a Book of Mormon, so you know that they own all the Marriotts.

[Dustin Chaffin]

You're writing it down?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, sure.

[Chris Lopresto]

All right.

[Marc Maron]

It's a workshop.

[Dustin Chaffin]

No, I think that's a good. It's a great premise. Why they have them in there? Because that's where all the bad happens. That's where all the bad decisions happen.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah, That's. It's so true.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Okay. So do you remember the day where you lost your faith, or is it a process?

[Marc Maron]

Well, you know, New York was a pretty cool place to be Mormon.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Oh, so you moved there as a Mormon to do comedy?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, I went to go to school. No, not comedy.

[Dustin Chaffin]

At Parsons School. As a Mormon.

[Marc Maron]

So you're still a Mormon? Parsons.

[Dustin Chaffin]

You had Mormon guys there?

[Marc Maron]

No, but the church in Manhattan was like, all the Juilliard people, so it was, like, interesting, you know?

[Dustin Chaffin]

And the church let you go.

[Marc Maron]

You had to ask what to let go?

[Dustin Chaffin]

To go to New York.

[Marc Maron]

No, no, no, no.

[Chris Lopresto]

Okay.

[Marc Maron]

No. I mean, I transferred out of byu, Idaho, to go to Parsons.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Parsons. All right.

[Marc Maron]

So I'm there and I'm in. You know, I'm a Mormon in Manhattan.

[Chris Lopresto]

Okay.

[Marc Maron]

And it's all like, you know, basically kids, and I haven't come out yet. Yeah, it's basically what it is. All these, like, song and dance people that are coming in Utah, they're like.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah, he's just, like, part of the choir.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. It's just focused, you know. But, yeah, so all that was happening, but I enjoyed it. It was cool. And then it just. Comedy was like, you know, the dirt bags in comedy.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And just in school.

[Dustin Chaffin]

That's one of them. I know.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Well, then the Amsterdam chicks and like.

[Dustin Chaffin]

What about Amsterdam?

[Marc Maron]

Well, there was, like, girls from Amsterdam, like, my first year of college.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Parsons.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And I think that's probably what this.

[Dustin Chaffin]

What did it.

[Marc Maron]

This girl from Amsterdam. Yeah, she did. Girl, whatever. She was. Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

And that was.

[Marc Maron]

It was done. I was like.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah, this, I'm giving it up for the Dutch girl.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, come on, we've all been there. You were kind of there.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

For a while.

[Marc Maron]

So.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So I didn't wear the hat though.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

With the Dutch girl.

[Marc Maron]

The hat. Yeah. With leather pants though.

[Chris Lopresto]

Oh yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I did try that cowboy shirt.

[Dustin Chaffin]

That was me. Cowboy shirts were always me.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I don't know that I have, I dressed, have I let girls really dress me? I guess Mishna had a little input cuz she was an ex model and she knew.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

But like no, I, I mean I, I, I, I wear five things. Dude, I finally leveled off. I, I hired.

[Marc Maron]

Leveling off.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I hired a, A, a stylist to just recently. Because I have stuff going up, TV stuff. And I always end up wearing the same shirt to the point where people are like, doesn't he have another shirt? So I know I'm on TV with the same pants over and over again. Yeah. So. So I just bought a bunch of clothes. I thought like, well, these aren't really my style. And then you put them on, you're like, oh, there's a lot. I don't know. I look pretty good in this shit.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's good to have somebody dress.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So the Dutch girl, how long does that last?

[Marc Maron]

Just, I don't know, six months.

[Dustin Chaffin]

But you start doing comedy then.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, it was started all that started happening about the same time.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Okay.

[Marc Maron]

And New York Comedy Club. Yeah, all that stuff. Actually, I met you, I think I started kind of experimenting. I think I'd never smoked weed. Really?

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And yeah, I smoked it with you first.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Really?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Chris Lopresto]

Okay.

[Marc Maron]

You're welcome at Gotham.

[Dustin Chaffin]

You're welcome out in front of Gotham.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And I was. Yeah. I mean, because the beginning we would, yeah, we kind of hang out a little bit because you were there all the time.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And so, yeah, I think you'd take me over to like the Cellar or something. I'd be too paranoid to talk to people. I remember you yelling at me once. You're like, dude, you gotta talk to people. And I'm like, I don't know, I'm just, My girlfriend was there at the time. You're like, is it your girlfriend? Because your girlfriend's here. Is she bringing you down? She's making you clam up? And I'm like, ah. I'm just at the Cellar, just looking around, just trying to get accepted and you're just like yelling at me. It was amazing. I love it. You're all jacked up and you're Just coming at me.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I'm probably still on blow.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I did a bump with you once. Yeah, sure. Good time.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Well, I'm glad I was there to help. I've tried to help a lot of people.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I also got sober with you a little bit. Like, you helped me with that. So it's like a fun. Like, went there and then went there. So it's a full experience with you.

[Dustin Chaffin]

That's right.

[Chris Lopresto]

That.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Because I was definitely in and out of sobriety when I was there. What year are we talking now.

[Marc Maron]

To? Maybe around 2000.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So that was early 2000.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Okay. So that was probably. Oh, right. So that was like. That's when I really got sober. So you missed the in and out thing with me. But I got. I got sober for the last time in 99.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Dustin Chaffin]

And then, you know, then some Mishnah was around.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

And I was what, Tried taking to meetings and.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, we went to meetings.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah, I remember.

[Marc Maron]

And stuff. Hung out after. That's why I would go.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Nisha was probably in, like, more involved with that than I was, I bet.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, with me or.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Well, yeah, in the sense of, like, you know, he needs help. Let's take him to the thing.

[Marc Maron]

Let's do the thing. Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Because you guys were sort of of the same generation.

[Marc Maron]

A little bit. Yeah. And then Geraldo ended up kind of sponsoring me.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Really?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Wow. So did he relapse as your sponsor?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, he was. We both kind of relapsed together.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Well, that's some graduate level shit there. Doing drugs with Geraldo.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah. Well, well, he would always like. Yeah, he'd be like, hey, man, let's just go to the lake house and we'll just, like, we'll write for three days and we'll just get to there, you know, like, he. It was great. He would. Yeah, it was. So you just want to be a part of it?

[Dustin Chaffin]

No, he's great. I. I really.

[Marc Maron]

I miss that guy, man.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah, he was great.

[Marc Maron]

So.

[Dustin Chaffin]

And, you know, I had no idea how deep he in he was with the. With the drugs. Like, I'm. I'm not naive, but, like, some guys, you know, I. I didn't hang out with him enough, but, like, he had a real battle with the fucking drugs, and I just had no idea.

[Marc Maron]

Well, it just wasn't. It wasn't happy at all. Like, his wife, they didn't like each other. Like, it was just the whole thing, man.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah, but he was a drug addict.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

But, like, I just, like, you know, I remember Talking to him, he said one of the greatest things, you know, like, he helped me frame when I was getting divorced.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Because I'd gone back and I was, you know, working through this divorce. And I was paying the woman off because I took that second job at Air America so I could pay her off. And I was, like, complaining about it. And, you know, I told him, like, she got me sober, you know, but it was costing me, like, you know, hundreds, a couple hundred grand to all in with the divorce. He goes, well, you know, that's what I spent on three rehabs. I'm like, okay, I'll frame it like that. I'm sober and that's what it cost me. Yeah, that's a good way to frame it.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

He was a great, brilliant guy.

[Marc Maron]

So funny. It was. I mean, to me, it was always you, him and Stanhope. Those are. You guys were my three. You guys are my three, man.

[Chris Lopresto]

Thank you.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Me, Geraldo and Stanhope.

[Marc Maron]

Those banged up dudes.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Never met in my life.

[Dustin Chaffin]

You got no choice but to cut your own path with that bunch of heroes. You gotta go get yourself a ranch.

[Marc Maron]

I think I relapsed watching Stanhope once because it was like, so electric. That early. Like an early drunk show.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Sure.

[Marc Maron]

And it was like, oh, it's phenomenal watching him just this kind of pool and find it. Oh, yeah, it's so great. I still love him. I think he's just fantastic.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah, he's a great guy. And I haven't talked to him in a while, but he checks in occasionally. I like that. He had to eventually tell the bartenders not to make it real booze because they kept sending him. The audience kept sending him booze. And he's like, I can't do it. How's he doing?

[Marc Maron]

I think he's good. He's touring now. Yeah, he's out there. I'm not real close with him, but he's touring.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I should check in with him. So how does it go in New York? Because you're. You're really kind of hitting it and you're. But you don't stay sober. So how up are you?

[Marc Maron]

It's bad. You know, it's like. Because I think my mom sent me some. My mom used to work for a doctor and stuff. Like, she. She always had access to, like, prescription drugs.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So she'd. We'd always, like, I would just get, you know, some sort of antidepressant or something that wasn't prescribed by anybody. It just was sent to me by my Mom. And then I would drink whiskey on it. It's so. There's pretty bad moments. Just X fexor, I think, was one of them. I got drunk on that. Yeah, it got her problem, but.

[Dustin Chaffin]

But you had mental problems.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I had a really bad ex. I think you met her. She was terrible, man. Just an awful.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I can't remember her.

[Marc Maron]

Red hair. Oh, yeah, yeah, it was rough. She was. She was around that time.

[Dustin Chaffin]

What, she worked at the Cellar?

[Marc Maron]

She didn't work there. She didn't work the Cellar.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I'm trying to remember her, but. But. So what happens? How do you hit the wall?

[Marc Maron]

Just kind of suicide, I think I was, like, trying to do. Trying to, you know, sleeping pills and whatever, and ended up in St. Vincent's in the ER. Pumped my stomach, all that stuff.

[Chris Lopresto]

Really?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, it was rough. And then ended up on a psych ward and next thing you know, I woke up and I'm in this psych ward, man.

[Dustin Chaffin]

What?

[Marc Maron]

In, man? In Manhattan? Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So you had the girl you were, you know, trying to manage your mental problems. You were. Were on. What kind of drugs were you on?

[Marc Maron]

Everything. Whatever anybody gave me.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Oh, really?

[Marc Maron]

It was kind of one of those things where the bag at end was like a fun. Sure. It was like you pull the gates down.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

What do you. Who's there? Yeah, what dealer's there? Who's got what. What's in somebody's pocket? That's what I did. I never seeked out too. I mean, sometimes I'd buy blow, but it wasn't like. Yeah, something, you know, you didn't get involved with. He was always around, though.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

No needles or anything.

[Dustin Chaffin]

None of that snorting that heroin. No, no, I didn't do that.

[Marc Maron]

A little crack.

[Chris Lopresto]

Oh, yeah, sure.

[Marc Maron]

Whatever.

[Chris Lopresto]

Kept it.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Kept it upbeat.

[Marc Maron]

Kept it 90s. I'm a retro guy. I buy vinyl.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Well, I'm an up guy. I'm not a down guy. Except with these zins. Why? A lot of people say they give them energy. Me, they just knock me down. The zins knock me down.

[Marc Maron]

You have a natural, like, intensity.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Exactly. They kind of counter that to the point where by 4 o' clock I need to nap because I'm nauseous.

[Chris Lopresto]

But.

[Marc Maron]

And we're not 20.

[Dustin Chaffin]

That's true, that's true. So you end up in a psych ward. How long were you in there for?

[Marc Maron]

Two weeks.

[Dustin Chaffin]

What'd you learn?

[Marc Maron]

First meeting. First AA meeting was in there.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I remember there used to be a Regular meeting in St. Vincent's yeah. Like downstairs, right?

[Marc Maron]

That's Where I was.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Because you'd go that meeting, there'd be guys in hospital gowns.

[Marc Maron]

Well, that's what I said. It's like. It's one thing to be, like, around crazy people on the subway way. It's one thing to be around crazy people with an open gown. That's a whole. Another vulnerability, man. And.

[Dustin Chaffin]

And they're in the.

[Chris Lopresto]

The.

[Dustin Chaffin]

The room next to you.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I remember that meeting. It was. That was a good part of early sobriety is like, you know, let's go to the meeting where these guys don't even know what you're talking about.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

And they're like. They're. Some of them are just. They're barely dry.

[Marc Maron]

Well, yeah. Be. Guys be like, yeah, I just stabbed a guy in the neck or whatever. And then you get to me, and I'd be like, I'm mad at my dad.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah. Y.

[Marc Maron]

It was rough, dude.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So.

[Marc Maron]

But then I learned, like, to get out of the psych ward, you got to do all the stuff. You got to go to the meetings.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You gotta. You gotta check in with the guys that were like, I ain't doing any of this.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Were the guys that stayed there. So I learned early Or.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Or frequent visitors.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But I learned if you wanted to get out, you had to just whatever they were. Whatever activity, whatever.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Because it was a court order kind of thing. Because you tried to off yourself.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. They have to do it right. So they just. It was one of those things.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Do you think you meant to kill yourself? You were. You wanted to.

[Marc Maron]

I think so. I think I was kind of done. Done with the girl, done with life, done with comedy. I don't know. You know, it's in a bad place.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Couldn't speak up.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. My dad and I, we had a rough.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I know that feeling, though. Like, if you're like. If you're like a guy that, you know, wants to please people, you know, by wearing hats and whatnot.

[Marc Maron]

The stupid.

[Dustin Chaffin]

If you have.

[Marc Maron]

That was my idea, man. Chicks dug it. I've never. You've never seen me with an unattractive woman. Because they love it. They're all into, like. They want that character, man.

[Chris Lopresto]

Okay.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I understand. The reason that you. You've moved through life, and then you got a bad one, and that sent you over the edge. I'm just saying that because I deal with my. With myself, is that if you have someone that you want, that you're infatuated with or in love with or whatever you think or you're involved with even, you know, it becomes hard to say, like, I want out.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

To them. So you can just do it like a regular person and take the hit. It's easier. Sort of like, I want out. I'm gonna end me.

[Marc Maron]

Be dramatic.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Cause I don't want it. Well, it's just like, you don't. It's hard. You think you're gonna hurt somebody. You think you're afraid of confrontation, you know, who the hell knows?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I think my dad had a lot to do with it, too. We were having some. Some, like, shady. Like, he had me take over his business and, like, in Texas. Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So you went back?

[Marc Maron]

He had. I didn't go back. But he had a divorce.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And she was trying to take all his money and company. And so we put your name on. Yep. We had the same middle name. And so it was like all that.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Did you lose money because of that?

[Marc Maron]

I did. And he was like, the IRS was a bunch of Owed money on. It was like a shady. Like, why would you put your son through that? Bad enough what you did to my mom and you're going to do that?

[Dustin Chaffin]

And they stayed together.

[Chris Lopresto]

No. Oh, okay.

[Marc Maron]

No, she married a doctor. That's what I was saying.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Oh, right, right, right.

[Marc Maron]

So she got out of that.

[Dustin Chaffin]

The one that she stole. The mess. So. All right, so you get out of the psych ward, you're in aaa.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I think it starts to.

[Dustin Chaffin]

What year was that?

[Marc Maron]

Well, this. It didn't. I didn't. It didn't take the aaa, didn't take in the psych ward. I just wanted to be out.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah, yeah, I get it.

[Marc Maron]

It took. Later when I met you, it took, but it was. Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

2000.

[Marc Maron]

That's about the time it started taking. I relapsed after that. Sure. You know, but eventually it took 17 years.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Well, that's great. But. So, like. But what's it. What's the process? When do you start earning the money as a comic? What were you out there headlining?

[Marc Maron]

I was. I always ran clubs.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know, that was part of it. And then I started kind of getting out there a little bit.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Started making money and, you know, getting by. Yeah. Getting by.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Were you doing other jobs?

[Marc Maron]

No, no, it's always comedy. I either ran a club or I was on the road.

[Chris Lopresto]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

It wasn't like I never, you know, I wasn't like. Didn't put a name tag on or.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Anything, but, I mean, what. But even. And stayed sober somehow.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

But, like, what were you ever like Sort of. You know, I gotta get. Get something going.

[Marc Maron]

I'm still, man. Trying to get something. I'm doing this. This is it. You're my dick, Cabot. Let's go. No, but comedy is always that, man. It's like. I don't know. It's like now I'm at a place where I'm working with Nate. I'm doing cruises. What? You know, whatever.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Hold on. Back up. So, all right, so you're. You're out there.

[Chris Lopresto]

You're.

[Dustin Chaffin]

You're running clubs. You're. You're. You're making ends meet. You're still living in New York.

[Marc Maron]

Sure.

[Dustin Chaffin]

But you weren't. You were. Weren't clean.

[Marc Maron]

No. Is a comic. No, not at all.

[Dustin Chaffin]

You know, and you. You know, you had the jokes and the. And the twitch, and it's like they.

[Marc Maron]

Had that attell thing going.

[Chris Lopresto]

Jokes.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

We were all raised by a tell.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

There's a whole generation of hotels and then. So at what point, like, when do you start doing boats? That's post.

[Marc Maron]

That's happening now. Yeah. After Nate.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So, okay, so you're, you know. But you and Nate are pals because you ran that room together. You met Nate in New York.

[Marc Maron]

I took a chance on him, you know.

[Dustin Chaffin]

You put him on stage.

[Marc Maron]

I put him on stage when he wasn't quite ready.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And he had to work through it. And it was.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So you were one of the only ones giving him stage.

[Marc Maron]

I was at the beginning. I was like the first guy. The first real guy that knew all you guys.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

And so that's how it was. He was able to get stage time and work it out, meet everybody, which is part of the thing if you're not meeting the record.

[Dustin Chaffin]

How long had he been in New York?

[Marc Maron]

Just fresh.

[Chris Lopresto]

Oh, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Right there and then. He lived with me. I. So that's what I say. I gave him stage time and I gave him a place to live.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Oh, you and.

[Chris Lopresto]

Too.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah. I was. I was like that movie Blindside. That's what I say.

[Chris Lopresto]

I'm.

[Marc Maron]

I'm Nate. Sandra Bullock.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Interesting, because I just talked to a Ronovich.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, you did? Okay. Do you guys do this? Oh, that's awesome.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Because, like, oddly, he was talking about you.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

He wanted to do this because I helped him get sober.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

And.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, both of us.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

And, you know, and. And it was weird because there was one time where I'm like, I gotta, like. And I don't get this because I'm barely. I'm not that active. In meetings and stuff anymore. But I'm pretty sober and I talked to sober people, but, like, I was kind of spinning and I'm like, all right, I'm gonna try and call it. I'm just gonna call Rich and, you know, do straight program call.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, wow.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah. And he did it.

[Marc Maron]

That's great.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

And then he's on the podcast.

[Marc Maron]

Whatever works, man.

[Dustin Chaffin]

That's for sure. No, I always like that guy, you.

[Marc Maron]

Know, he's funny, man. He's like a. He's, you know, it's like a trained performance guy.

[Dustin Chaffin]

But he's a good guy. He's a good hearted guy, you know? You know, he's, you know, he's. He's a Jew like me. And, you know, we're nuts in a certain way and. But, you know, you guys, you got kids now, right?

[Marc Maron]

No.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Oh, well, that's good.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So. But he's.

[Marc Maron]

Two dogs, man. I'm a dog.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Good for you.

[Marc Maron]

Good for you. Yeah, I win.

[Dustin Chaffin]

But, you know, Rich has got kids, and I'm like, how's that going?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, right.

[Dustin Chaffin]

But he loves him, and he's a good dad.

[Marc Maron]

Loves him. Of course he's a good dad. It's not easy. It's not hard to be a good dad, I think, these days, I guess.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah. But, you know, there's a lot of shitty dads out there still.

[Marc Maron]

Is it happening?

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah, of course it's happening. You know, half the country's Republican. You think that's because of good parenting?

[Marc Maron]

They think they're good parents. They think they're making all the moves.

[Dustin Chaffin]

But what about their parents?

[Marc Maron]

Oh, they're bad.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

They're not good.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Nate's just one of the good ones because he's got that Jesus going. But so that's interesting. So you. Because Nate's a loyal guy, I had to earn it.

[Marc Maron]

But I'm just saying I had to figure it out.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Right, but he knew your position in his life. He knew that you were the guy that got him on stage.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, but I was also, you know, I was working. I was getting stuff going, and I think he, you know, and I told him and I had to convince him, you know.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So wait, so this is like. So when I saw him in Michigan, he hadn't broke yet, and then all of a sudden, you know, Fallon took him, and it just. It all happened fairly quickly and, you know, and he. But he's always been that guy. Yeah, Nate Clean. I mean, comedy wise.

[Marc Maron]

Well, he has a lot. Like, he has all those legion skanks, guys like they're all his buddies and whatever from New York.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah, but he was always clean, right?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, but those guys didn't do the work to figure it out with him. So it's like he always had problems with some of those guys because it's like they couldn't. They couldn't quite be clean. And so I just figured it out.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And it was tough. And it's not easy because I'm still dark.

[Dustin Chaffin]

No, but I just mean for him, for Nate, like, you know, his success, you know, he. He had it coming and he earned it. But it's just interesting that he was always clean. Even. Even back in New York, he was not.

[Marc Maron]

No. Even, like a late show at Boston, he would be clean.

[Dustin Chaffin]

That's the amazing thing about. That's why, like, I didn't notice him until Michigan. Because when you operate at that pace and you don't have a second gear, you gotta wait and hope it works.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Because you're not. There's no. You can't make any adjustments to that. Right. You just gotta wait till they come around. Todd was the same way. There are guys that operate at a certain.

[Marc Maron]

But he found his gear, which is crowd work.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Right. But he also found his gear in doing standup, because when we started, it was hard to get laughs. Jeff Lifschultz, Jeff Ross. The same way is you start out in a certain zone, and if you lock into it, because that's who you are, then you hope for the best. And that happened with Nate. So when Nate starts breaking. And how do you get locked in with him after all those years?

[Marc Maron]

Just kind of reached out. I knew he was doing those, you know, around Covid, and he was doing some, you know, starting to do some shows again.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And I just asked and said, hey, man, I'm working on a cleaner set.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Just did a, you know, audition to agt. I'm trying to do all this stuff. And I said, I can pull it off.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And we did. I think our first thing together was off the hook. Little comedy club in Naples, Florida.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And, yeah, I did all right. I was clean. Ish.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So he wasn't a big act yet, but he was headlining.

[Marc Maron]

He was about to be.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I think Tennessee Kid was pretty popular.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Okay.

[Marc Maron]

That Netflix special.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And so he was starting to get kind of. And then his. I think his podcast started to kind of reach people between that and Tennessee Kid.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

It just started to come up and then. Yeah. And then he just.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So it was just. He just had you open for him.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

It Was just me at that point. It was just me at the, you know, 25 minutes or whatever. And then it became more comics and became bigger family.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Like a caravan of clowns.

[Marc Maron]

We like to call it an entourage.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Okay, sorry.

[Marc Maron]

Or a festival.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Big caravan of clean clowns running around in a bus.

[Marc Maron]

A jet. Let's just. Let's.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Sorry.

[Marc Maron]

Keep that shit. Yeah, a jet full of jet full. I'll take it.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Non partying clowns.

[Marc Maron]

I don't care.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah, it's all right.

[Marc Maron]

I'll take it.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Oh, no.

[Marc Maron]

It's a good time.

[Dustin Chaffin]

So it's you and Julian and.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, a couple guys. A couple different. Probably like eight guys that do it. We rotate out. We rotate out.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Okay. So how many people are on an arena show?

[Marc Maron]

Probably like Julian Jujuli, the mc.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Julian.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

And then three. And then Nate.

[Marc Maron]

Nate.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And that's the show. It's like 50 up top. And then he does the rest.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Okay. Yeah, he does it like 50 more.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, he does an hour. Yeah, he's working on our new one, so that's an hour.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And he's one of the few guys left. I mean, you're like that. There's certain guys that are purist. You know, keep doing the hours, do the hour.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I got one coming out in August for hbo.

[Marc Maron]

Nice.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah, that's all right. It's good. I'm happy with it. Looks great.

[Marc Maron]

Excited.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Thank you. I think you like it, but. But it enabled you to. To sort of. I imagine the responsibility of it is real, you know, to do those shows and to figure out how to do them and to do them clean.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, to do 18,000 people.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know, is. I don't care who it's with. To be able to do that is, you know, pretty great.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And to feel that.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Feel what? I mean, that's. That's like Aerosmith. I mean, that's. Doesn't. Even. Comics aren't supposed to do that.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And so to be a part of that is pretty amazing.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

No, I bet you it's great.

[Marc Maron]

And then it's like we get to be a part of the hour. We get to add and tag and write and talk to him and, you know, he's our buddy, but at the same time, we all get to like.

[Dustin Chaffin]

You know, workshop shit.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. We're always, you know, it's. It's always that.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So I enjoy that.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Those moments where he's trying to work out a bit.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. We're all like. We're all in this together.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

It's like, he. He takes it from us and, like, we'll rework a bit and whatever. So it's great. Oh, that's great. One time he let me do his set list. Like, I rearranged everything and so. Stuff like that.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Did it work?

[Marc Maron]

Almost. He had to tell a story. I think it didn't work. And he had to tell a story that he told before. It was, like, a whole thing, but. Yeah, but he did. He did it wrong. He missed one of my mark. So then he had a delta. It worked for the most part.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But whatever. Cool. Like that?

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

But no, I love him. Yeah. So in terms of, like, has that upped your. Your visibility?

[Marc Maron]

I think so.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

You do all right when you do Funny Bones and shit?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I do okay.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

You headlining?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Headlining.

[Dustin Chaffin]

What are you doing, 50?

[Marc Maron]

Sometimes more.

[Chris Lopresto]

Okay.

[Marc Maron]

Depends.

[Dustin Chaffin]

All clean now, or that's just Nate. You got to be Nate clean. But when you go.

[Marc Maron]

Depends on, like. Okay. Like, because here's. Here's what I do. Like, if I know I'm doing, like, let's say, Corpus Christi with Nate or something, it's a big arena show.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Then I'll try to get a date at the comedy club.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

And so then when I'm in. When I'm on the Nate show.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Hey, I'm going to be at this comedy club, Mesquite Street Comedy club or whatever. So that gets out, you leave the stage, or the emcee says it.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And there's, you know, 10,000 people get to hear it.

[Dustin Chaffin]

And that works.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Okay.

[Marc Maron]

And so then they'll come out and, you know, support me on, you know, two months later or whatever.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

And if it's. If it's. If. If I do do that, then I'm clean because I know I'm getting that audience, and I don't want to, you.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Know, step on the nature.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah. So I. You know, I feel like that's my responsibility.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

To keep it clean. But if I'm just headlining and it's not from an 8 show, you know, I'll. It might come and go, but I'm trying to lean, you know, I'm trying to lean towards that, but I'm not, you know, so.

[Dustin Chaffin]

But you did. You got a new special.

[Marc Maron]

I just did Dry bar. Yeah. And then I'm. I'm recording something in December, so kind of a.

[Dustin Chaffin]

What's that called?

[Marc Maron]

Keeping clean. It's like a kind of the idea of kind of staying clean. Sobriety. And then also as a Scandal Clean comic. Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

And you haven't recorded that yet.

[Marc Maron]

It's in December. Yeah. Dry bar.

[Dustin Chaffin]

And what is a dry bar?

[Marc Maron]

It's like a company that does, like, clean specials. So it's like. It's out of Utah, back to Utah, actually. In Provo.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

How good? Full circle.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, full circle.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Are they Mormon?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Okay. But they got mad at me doing Mormon stuff. But whatever. It's a whole.

[Chris Lopresto]

They did.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I went. I went back. I did. I did a gig in Jordan. Utah.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And I was very excited to do it. I was headlining and it did that story with the jerking off. And also I did all the Mormon stuff because I was like, if any of these people, you know, this is the crowd that's going to get it. Because sometimes I do a crowd, they don't understand this Mormon journey at all. And I got to explain it more.

[Dustin Chaffin]

And it's. And it's also. There's a lot of Jack Mormons there.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I mean, I do Salt Lake all the time. I love it. I love Keith, you know, Stubbs. Great guy, great club.

[Marc Maron]

Sure.

[Dustin Chaffin]

And most of the audience that comes. Half of them are Jack Mormons.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, that's what I thought, but I think. I think I rubbed it the wrong way because, I mean, just.

[Dustin Chaffin]

You got reported.

[Marc Maron]

I think so. I've been. I'm in trouble getting back, you know, so.

[Chris Lopresto]

Oh, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But I did good.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Some of them went to the committee.

[Marc Maron]

I think so.

[Dustin Chaffin]

To the court.

[Marc Maron]

I think they did. Man. What are you.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Hey, dude, it's a big deal. There's some Mormon sanctioned comics. I imagine. Nate's Mormon sanctioned. Yeah. Because, like, you know, Regan used to make, you know, almost all his money doing the arena because.

[Marc Maron]

Well, Nate's that guy now.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

He's. It's. It's all Skyline, whatever.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Those big arenas, wild.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah, I, you know, I'm. I'm oddly fascinated with Salt Lake, and I like going there.

[Marc Maron]

It's beautiful.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Because the Mormons, for me, they're very pleasant people.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. You know, they're taught to love the Jews.

[Chris Lopresto]

They are. Yeah. Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I guess they all see us as essential somehow.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah. You guys are the landing pad. You guys are taking care of that.

[Dustin Chaffin]

It's touch and go right now.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, it's true.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Got a lot of push from the religious people to clean the landing pad, but, you know, there's problems persist. Yeah, I know. Well, how are they going to get us all there? Don't answer that. We're third. Third down on the ice raids. We got to get all the Jews to Israel. They need restocking.

[Chris Lopresto]

You got to get them there. Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Well, that's all pretty exciting stuff, man. I'm glad you're doing all right.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, man, it's good. I like it out here, man. I like. I like.

[Dustin Chaffin]

How long you been here?

[Marc Maron]

About four years. Yeah, I love it.

[Dustin Chaffin]

It's all right.

[Marc Maron]

I live by Running Canyon, so.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Go up there.

[Marc Maron]

I got the dog.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I went to a hike today.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah? Up over here.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah, Running is pretty nice.

[Marc Maron]

I love it. Yeah. It's just the lifestyle. I like it.

[Dustin Chaffin]

You don't go to the store or nothing, though?

[Marc Maron]

Belly Room, you know, Working on it. Hoping this might help.

[Dustin Chaffin]

What do you wait? I mean, you ready for the OR and.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah, I'm ready for anything. I'll follow. I'll follow anybody, man.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Well, I'm ready. I'll introduce you to Rose. To Rose.

[Marc Maron]

That'd be amazing. Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Why don't you. Yeah, I'll tell her. I. I'll see if she's gonna be around tonight. What are you doing tonight?

[Marc Maron]

I'll make that.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah, I gotta.

[Chris Lopresto]

I don't know.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I think I got a spot in one of the rooms tonight.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I'll see if she's there and I'll. I'll introduce you.

[Marc Maron]

That'd be great.

[Dustin Chaffin]

But, you know, I don't know what her system is, though. You know, I don't care.

[Marc Maron]

I just. This is all. I mean, I appreciate that.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I don't know how much juice you doing this has, but it was nice talking to you. I'm glad you thought of it as an angle, but.

[Marc Maron]

It's not an angle. It's just. It's. Well, first of all, I love you. I hadn't talked to you.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And so this is great. I miss. I do miss that goofy laugh and that energy, but. No, this is a big deal. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not acting like it's not.

[Dustin Chaffin]

No, no, it's.

[Marc Maron]

It's a big deal in my world.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

It may not be a big deal in. It's not an angle. This is as much as you'd want to be on tonight's show. You know what I mean? You're my Johnny Carson. I hope that.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I hope it does something.

[Marc Maron]

I don't care if it does, but I'm just saying it's a big deal to be on it. It's an honor. Like, I love everything you've done. Well, it's great. It's fun.

[Dustin Chaffin]

And I don't have, like. I'm glad we talked. I don't feel any distance.

[Marc Maron]

No.

[Dustin Chaffin]

And it's great. I knew.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Really?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I'm going to make you go to a meeting.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Let's go. Okay.

[Marc Maron]

I'd love to. There's a great one. I'll tell you about it.

[Dustin Chaffin]

What night?

[Marc Maron]

Wednesdays. Like, there's a noon meeting. That's great.

[Dustin Chaffin]

A noon one?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

What, the comic one?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah, I'll go.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I mean, you know, Bobby's always like, come on.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Yeah, I could probably use one.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Maybe next week if I don't go to New Mexico.

[Marc Maron]

You should.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

All right, buddy. Good talking to you.

[Marc Maron]

Thanks, buddy.

[Chris Lopresto]

Yeah.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Wow. Good story, right? You can go to dustinchafin.com to check out his tour dates and watch his special. Hang out for a minute, will ya? Okay. For full Marin subscribers, we've got a special Friday show for you tomorrow. Chris and Brendan have an entire episode about. Yes, Seriously, Smokey and the Bandit.

[Brendan McDonald]

If you don't know the plot of Smokey and the Bandit, you hear a very literal song about Bandit and how he is the great trucker of the south. And that's Jerry Reed singing the song.

[Dustin Chaffin]

Which, by the way, Bandit never drives a truck.

[Brendan McDonald]

He doesn't drive a single truck. And when you first see Bandit, there are signs saying, king of all truckers, come meet the great Bandit, the truck driving world champion. It says on the sign.

[Dustin Chaffin]

I have a question. So is he driving the truck around the world?

[Brendan McDonald]

Does he go to the Le Mans and do with a semi truck? Is he in China, like racing people on the wall?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I want to know more about the world.

[Brendan McDonald]

The world title of truck driving.

[Marc Maron]

Yes. Fascinating.

[Dustin Chaffin]

That's tomorrow for full Marin subscribers to get bonus episodes twice a week and every episode of WTF Ad free. Sign up for the full Marin, go to the link in the episode description or go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF plus and a reminder before we go. This podcast is hosted by Acast. I'm doing a few covers lately. This one is one of my favorites. Boomer Lives Monkey and La Fonda Cat Angels everywhere.