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- [00:02]
Marc Maron
So it's happening, people. The Bad Guys. And I'm one of them. Get ready for the Bad Guys 2 from DreamWorks Animation. I love being Mr. Snake. It's one of the more fun jobs I've had in show business. I like working with Craig Robinson, Sam Rockwell, Awkwafina, Anthony Ramos, Natasha Leone on this one, everybody. It's just. It's a blast. Especially when we can all get into the same room and kind of work it out together. Natasha plays my love interest in this one. I tell you, it is kind of an exciting thing to have parents who know me from me say that their kid loves Mr. Snake. I'm crossing generations with my Snake voice. Yeah. Get tickets now for The Bad Guys 2. In theaters August 1st. Hey, folks, we have a website that's powered by Squarespace, which has made life easier for us since we started using it more than a decade ago. With Squarespace's collection of cutting edge design tools, anyone can build a bespoke online presence that perfectly fits their brand or business. Squarespace gives you everything you need to offer services on your site and get paid. Plus streamline your workflow with built in appointment scheduling and email marketing tools. Check out squarespace.com WTF for a free trial and then use offer code WTF to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com WTF offer code WTF. Okay, all it. All right, let's do the show. All right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck, buddies? What the fuck? Nicks, what's happening? I'm Marc Maron. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. How are you? How's it going? I am frazzled, I'm exhausted, and I am stressed the fuck out. I just got back from New Mexico, which was not relaxing at all. I'm just. I. I don't know what it is. I. I can imagine. I can assume it's a combination of things. Big transitions in my life, big sort of horrible turns in the world and just my cats. I mean, you look. I don't want to be that guy, but I am that guy. I got home, my cat sitter was sending me dispatches throughout the entire time. They were holding steady and doing okay for like six of the seven days I was gone. Then day seven, Charlie just beat the out of Buster. I got home, there's hair and piss everywhere. It's a nightmare. And then she had put Charlie and upstairs put. Put him in the room to separate them. And I get Home. I let him out looking for some love. Nothing. And then Charlie goes after Buster like he was gonna kill him. I couldn't even get him. I couldn't stop him. Cat fights, they're not, it just, it was a nightmare. It looked, it was just devastating. Now Buster's all fucked up and traumatized. Charlie's back in the room. I got to get him reconnected to me. I don't know what the fuck I'm going to do with this. I can't just, I can't get any peace, man. I can't even have fucking cats that just, you know, relax. I don't know if I got to get rid of Charlie. I don't know what I got to do. I love the guy, but he's too attached to me. And I just don't know. I don't know what to do anymore. I've talked to cat professionals, I've tried the Prozac, and I just, you know, I don't know what to do. It's just, it's just too sad, man. But anyway, I'm back. It's been a while since I've been on the mic. A lot of the shows you heard in the last week or so were pre recorded because Brendan took a trip to Italy. And now I'm back on the mic after about a week and a half. It's weird, I got a little untethered out there. I guess it's just a, a forecast of the future without this anchor in my life. But look, I, I, I guess I'll figure out a way to, to move through. It's me untethered. I was out in New Mexico, just me in my head, you know, for like a week. Kid came out for a couple days. I don't even know how to explain it. Did I mention Sarah Sherman is on the show? She's been on Saturday night live since 2021. She used to write for the Eric Andre show and performs comedy under the stage name Sarah Squirm. A true weirdo. An old school legacy weirdo. God damn it. Thank God for the weirdos. Don't let them crush all the weirdos. They're crushing the mainstream, guys. They're crushing Colbert. That was a corporate decision and a political one. Probably a mix of both. That format is just, it's dated, it's outmoded. It's a warning, not just politically, but just in terms of the media landscape that that stuff's going to go away. Stuff we grew up with, stuff we loved. And he's gonna fight the Good fight. He is an outspoken guy. And there is definitely a political component to it, it seems. And it's fucking a shame. The hammer's coming down. The hammer of authoritarianism on all levels. Npr, pbs, going away. Maybe not going away, but struggling for a presence after being defunded. And these are the outlets. These are the places where thinking, rational people who believe in progress and democracy and incremental change live and learn things. And it's just happening. But Sarah Sherman is a true blue weirdo. Thank God for the weirdos. Look, the weirdos were never mainstream. It's a rare thing. She's done an amazing thing by being a mainstream weirdo, by finding the other part of herself that lives in a kind of the SNL format, which is, you know, can be weird. But Sarah herself is a real fucking art freak. And God bless the art freaks. That's what I gotta say. I mean, I always needed them. I needed them to blow my mind. I remember when I first realized there was something out there, not bigger than me, but definitely out there in a way that wasn't me and not necessarily something I can understand. And it's a great, freeing experience. Not just like free jazz. I'm talking about weirdo shit. I'm talking about performance art. I'm talking about people who do stuff because they got no choice. And it's just incomprehensible to the average mom mind and even to the slightly smarter mind. But that mind will usually let it happen, take it in, break my brain a little bit. Sarah is of that spirit and of that lineage. It was exciting to talk to her. I'll be at Largo this Wednesday, July 23rd, playing with the band. And also I'm at the 92nd Street Y in New York City in conversation with Jim Gaffigan on Thursday, July 31. That's after a screening, an early screening of my HBO Special, which releases August 1st. So if you want to come hear that, I was very flattered and honored that Gaffigan was going to come moderate the conversation. I'm interested to hear what he thinks and what he has to say. I'm nervous about the special getting out there and being out there, but it's going to happen. You can go to wtfpod.com tour for links to tickets. Now I'm just sitting there. I'm just sitting here. I'm just sitting here in my garage talking to you guys, having been off the mic for a week or so and, well, yeah, I just don't know what's going on in my House had a lock. Charlie up Buster is, like, just traumatized. It just. It was a brutal fight, and I just. I don't. Dude, I just need some peace, man. I can't stop it. I can't stop the anxiety. It's unrelenting, folks. I mean, I don't even. You know, I told you I was on the medicine. I mean, I told you that. And I thought it was working, but I'm not so sure anymore. Not after last week. I mean, Jesus Christ, I spent a week in New Mexico, just me in my head. And it got pretty daunting, folks. Pretty daunting. Kid came out for a couple of days, but I just couldn't get out from under it. I mean, I don't know what it is. I mean, I think my anxiety is, like, twofold. I think my brain wants to latch onto things it thinks it has control over, at least. The repetition of images of the worst outcomes seems to make my brain think it's ready for anything. And that's some kind of control. The scenarios play out and all the possible outcomes play out. So my brain just sees them all the way through and settles on an entire arc. And whether it's bad or good, that's the illusion of control. Then the feelings in relation to this complete fabrication creates a whole nother level of anxiety. Because now I'm reacting to this arc that's fictitious. It's just like my brain is full of psychic tendrils all looking to grab hold of something to worry about. And they're relatively successful at finding stuff every day. Every day I have to go through the process of getting each one of them to let go. And there's a lot of them, and I gotta do it, like, separately. It's just fucking. It's a fucking nightmare. It all breaks down to fear. And the other element is just some poorly parented Part of myself wants. Parents, wants to be comforted, even with bullshit. I think when I'm grounded, I mean, I can do that for myself. But if I'm untethered, all bets are off, folks. There's just so much out of our control. I mean, almost all of it is out of our control. And I guess it's natural to want some control in your life. I mean, what will you do to have some, huh? What does it take? Is it possible? Well, I'll tell you a story, okay? Let me lay it out. I was staying at this house in Albuquerque, all right? My brain was on fire. Most of the time I was out there with different degrees of panic for different Made up reasons. I mean, look, the roots of some of the reasons, you know, were, were, were true were real. But absolutely nothing was happening in relation to those things outside of what was happening in my head, which was just on fire, just generating exciting possibilities of dread. All right, so here's what happens. I had a rental car and the house was a real house, not a hotel. I was staying at a house. I'd gone to the supermarket to get some stuff and I arrived back at the house. I parked out front. I thought I parked, I got out to bring like half the groceries in and I get back out to the car to find the doors locked and the keys inside, which is really hard to do with a fucking key fob. I didn't even think it was possible because there's sort of designed not to do that. Now I found the loophole. The loophole is if you leave the car and drive when you turn it off, when you turn off the car, I guess the car thinks you're still in it. So the keys were locked in there and there was no way I was going to get them out. And there were two pints of ice cream in the car, non dairy. I lost my mind, folks. I lost my fucking mind. It was 92 degrees outside. I could not accept that the ice cream would just melt and turn to garbage. It just, it doesn't refreeze, right, if it, if it melts all the way down. And I just locked into it, okay? So what would a normal person do? They just take the hit. It's just fucking ice cream. For me, it became bigger, okay? It was global warming. It was all the powerlessness I felt about everything. Me standing outside that car fuming in complete emotional, psychological and physical impotence. I mean, obviously the correct grown up thing to do is you call aaa, which I've had for decades, but I rarely use, and this is what it's for. In my fury though, I decided that there was no one AA could send over who could get into this car. Because it was one of these new cars. They don't even have the little ridge over the buttons on the fucking doors. There was, there, it was just. And I mean, I don't even know do they use like Slim Jims anymore to get in there? I don't even know. In my futility I realized I had full coverage on the car and I should just throw a large rock through the window, okay, Save the ice cream. I mean, I'd have to go to the car rental place, probably fill out some paperwork, probably make up A new story. I'd have to get a new car. Could take a long time. Dumb idea. But in that moment, I saw no other solution. That's how blinded by fury and powerlessness I was. I saw no other solution. So I found a rock.
- [12:17]
Sarah Sherman
I.
- [12:17]
Marc Maron
Behind the house. I stood facing the car on the side. I wound up and I just launched. It's a giant rock. It was bigger than my fist. Big rock. And I just launched that fucker. Anticipating the shattering of the window. And it just bounced off. Okay. I don't know. I guess they're making tougher windows now. I don't know. When it hit the ground, I realized, jesus Christ, I'm a fucking idiot. Who the hell does this? And this was not the way an adult would handle this situation, right? So I went in, I called aa and I was stuck in like a recording prompting thing for too long. I didn't even know if I was getting through to anybody. I just felt like I needed to talk to a human. I needed someone to say, it's gonna be okay, it's gonna be okay. We'll get someone over there. And then they told me to get online. So I got online and I reported it. You know, send a guy to help me. I couldn't even tell if it was happening or not. I didn't even know if it got through. So I looked up the car rental roadside assistance procedure. And that would have cost me a bunch of money. And, you know, who knows when they would have come. So it. I did all I did everything I could and I did. The only thing I knew I should do at that moment is I went outside and I heaved the rock again and again it bounced off the window. So now I'm double dumb. All right? So then a text comes on my phone. The Triple H is sending a truck. It's coming from Santa Fe in an hour. So I just had to suck it up and just live with the ice cream melting just sitting there on the front seat. Nothing I could do. It wasn't a baby, you know, I was the baby. I just wanted my fucking ice cream. But. So I had a man up, dude, suck it up. Eventually you'll go get more ice cream. So I just went into the house and tried to bide my time. I bought some broccoli, so I. There was an air fryer there, so I got that going. I like that burnt broccoli. Then I got informed on my phone that the truck was coming in 15 minutes. What? Great. So maybe the ice cream. Nah, it's probably not going to make it. But I still didn't believe that anyone could get in the car. I mean, that was the bottom line. I couldn't figure it out. Who's going to figure it out? So the air fryer. Around this time, the air fryer just started smoking. It just right as the truck pulled up. The air fryer is, like, smoking. And the smoke alarm connected to the house was connected to an alarm system to adt. So I tried to get the smoke out. It's going off. I shut off the air fryer and went out to deal with the driver. You know, as the alarm was blaring, I went out to deal with the tow truck guy, who's a native American guy who looked to be well in his 70s. He had kind of a bandana headband. He looked like an elder of some sort. And he had this large wobbly wand with a bunch of, like. It looked like just a wad of tape on the end. And I asked if, you know, do you think you can get into this car? He said, I don't know. Probably. Probably fine. I. I left him to it. And I went back into the house. I called the alarm company. I tell them it was just a cooking thing and not to send the fire department. They're like, they've. They've already been dispatched. And I'm like, God damn it. So now I go outside, you know, the alarm eventually shut off on its own. I got the smoke. I went outside to see the progress the guy was making with the magic wand, and I heard the sirens in the distance. And I was like, you got to be kidding me. Told the guy, like, fire department's coming. You know, I burned some broccoli. So I went out into the street to greet the fire engine and wave him down. And there was a driver, and there were two guys all suited up for fire. And I was like, look, hey, fellas, I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. You know, it's just a cooking situation. You know, there's no fire. And, you know, they had to slide down the pole and everything, probably. And they. They said it was fine. Look, it's just part of our job, you know, Good guys. And then they're like, let us come in. Just do a heat sensor. I'm like, sure, sure, come on in. So two fully geared up fire guys come in, and they walk around the kitchen. We had a nice chat. Nice guys. I thanked them. I said, I'm sorry. I'm an idiot. And they went away. And then the guy, the elder, said he got the Car opened and I was like, you gotta be fucking kidding me. So I gave him a nice tip and he took off in his truck. I ran the ice cream into the house. I put it in the freezer, still had it melted all the way, pretty far gone. And later that night, I got the ice cream out and just plowed into it. And it was fucking amazing. It was fucking amazing. And I felt like a fucking child. But I ate like half a pint and I realized this is. This seemed a little too good. And I realized that it wasn't on dairy.
- [16:49]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [16:51]
Marc Maron
So I stopped eating it and.
- [16:53]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [16:54]
Marc Maron
I don't know where to go with this story. I mean, after all was said and done, it was quite an exciting day. I had a half pint's worth of real happiness before returning to panic of what all that dairy would do to my stomach after being plant based for so long. Now turns out, not much, just a bit of gas, which is enjoyable in its own way. So that was, that was, that was the, that was the big. That was the big payoff for the day is that I got to enjoy a half a pint of full cream ice cream before I realized was that. And then it kind of. I was like, ah, fuck. And. And then later, you know, I had. I had gas and, you know. But that's not nothing. It all worked out okay. I have control over nothing. But sometimes there's ice cream.
- [17:43]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah, that's it.
- [17:46]
Marc Maron
Pretty. Pretty exciting stuff though, right? Okay. Sarah Sherman. I was so thrilled to talk to her because I am a true. A true fan of art freaks. And, you know, when I saw her stand up and when I started to look into her, there was just. It triggered a lot of great stuff in my memory about the residents, about the New York performance art scene that was just a little before my time. And just all this stuff that I used to read about and see pictures of radical art on the performance level. And I really wanted to talk to her because I wondered, you know, how she came to it. She's on Saturday Night Live, which is nominated for best scripted variety series at this year's Emmy. Sarah will be back on the 51st season of SNL this fall. And this is me talking to the beautiful weirdo that is Sarah Squirm. Hey, folks, think about the last time you had a plumbing emergency. If the first plumber didn't answer, did you wait or did you call the next one on the list? Chances are you moved on. Now think about what happens if you run a business and you miss a call with OpenPhone. Your customers will never move on from you. OpenPhone is the number one business phone system that streamlines and scales your customer communications. It works through an app on your phone or computer, so no more carrying two phones or using the landline. Plus, say goodbye to voicemail. Their AI agent can handle calls after hours, answer questions, and capture leads so you never miss a customer. OpenPhone is offering WTF listeners 20% off your first six months at openphone.com WTF? That's O P E N P-O-N-E.com WTF. And if you have existing numbers with another service, OpenPhone will move them over at no extra charge. Open Phone. No missed calls, no missed customers.
- [19:55]
Sarah Sherman
Sarah, I keep wanting to call you. I keep wanting to call you. Cindy Sherman, the photographer.
- [19:59]
Unknown
You can.
- [20:00]
Sarah Sherman
Does that happen all the time?
- [20:01]
Unknown
Yeah, people also call me Sarah Silverman.
- [20:03]
Sarah Sherman
No, I'm not gonna do that. I know her.
- [20:05]
Unknown
I know, but it won't stop you from saying it.
- [20:08]
Sarah Sherman
But really, people. But not really. Do they really?
- [20:11]
Unknown
My friend in high school's dad called me Sarah Silverman for the entire four years I was in high school with him. And I never corrected him, like, let him have it.
- [20:21]
Sarah Sherman
Sure, that's crazy.
- [20:23]
Unknown
But you get. I mean, it's like the names sound exactly the same.
- [20:28]
Sarah Sherman
Do you know Cindy Sherman work?
- [20:30]
Unknown
Yeah, I went and saw her the last time a couple years ago. I was at that tiny gallery over here.
- [20:38]
Sarah Sherman
Oh, yeah.
- [20:39]
Unknown
Spruce Madger or whatever.
- [20:41]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah, that was cool. Was it good?
- [20:42]
Unknown
Yeah, she does the funny Photoshop thing, which I think a lot of people aren't hilarious at, but I think she's hilarious.
- [20:48]
Sarah Sherman
She's doing a Photoshop thing now.
- [20:49]
Unknown
She's doing funny Photoshop, like.
- [20:51]
Sarah Sherman
What do you mean?
- [20:51]
Unknown
Like making like crazy weird characters. Totally fried, edited crazy.
- [20:58]
Sarah Sherman
Oh, really? Because she always did kind of wigs.
- [21:00]
Unknown
And stuff, but now it's like it's computer wigs with Photoshop. What is this?
- [21:06]
Sarah Sherman
That's a good question. I think it's a tool.
- [21:08]
Unknown
Ah.
- [21:09]
Sarah Sherman
Some kind of, like, undoes. It undoes something.
- [21:11]
Unknown
Oh, it undoes.
- [21:12]
Sarah Sherman
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like. Like, I don't know what it came with, but, you know, you put it over the bolt.
- [21:17]
Unknown
Ah. Huh.
- [21:18]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah. Got any other questions about that?
- [21:19]
Unknown
Yeah, there's items for people to play with. Knives or hammers.
- [21:23]
Sarah Sherman
There was more in the old garage. The knife I found in my old apartment in New York, because the woman who lived there was a German photographer and her boyfriend collected knives. And somehow that got left behind. The exercise hand. Exercise thing was left here. I think that came in a box of swag. That's an unpressed record.
- [21:41]
Unknown
That's cool.
- [21:42]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [21:43]
Unknown
I didn't know that it was like that.
- [21:46]
Sarah Sherman
That's what it looks like. Before they make it, they stamp it into a record.
- [21:49]
Unknown
Isn't it crazy?
- [21:51]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
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Unknown
Isn't that crazy?
- [21:52]
Marc Maron
It's crazy how things work.
- [21:54]
Unknown
Crazy.
- [21:55]
Marc Maron
So what's going on?
- [21:57]
Sarah Sherman
What are you doing here?
- [21:58]
Unknown
Oh, it started already.
- [21:59]
Sarah Sherman
Sure.
- [22:01]
Unknown
I'm in Los Angeles, California, in Mark house.
- [22:04]
Marc Maron
You're hardly ever here.
- [22:06]
Unknown
I. Yeah, that's true.
- [22:08]
Sarah Sherman
And you don't like it?
- [22:08]
Unknown
Well, they. I actually like it a lot. I lived here for two whole years before I moved to New York for snl.
- [22:14]
Sarah Sherman
You did?
- [22:15]
Unknown
I. I lived right next to Jumbo's clown room, and I liked it a lot.
- [22:18]
Sarah Sherman
Did you go to Jumbo's?
- [22:19]
Unknown
I went there a lot.
- [22:20]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [22:21]
Unknown
My friend dances there. Yep. Tape boobies shout out to Emily. She's hilarious. She'll do, like. She'll paint her face. Like. She'll paint her face, like, in corpse paint and, like, crazy dance to, like, a song from the crow.
- [22:35]
Sarah Sherman
Oh, yeah.
- [22:35]
Unknown
Yeah, that's great.
- [22:36]
Marc Maron
Oh, yeah.
- [22:37]
Sarah Sherman
Cause it doesn't seem like. It seems like a. I think I've been there once, but it's more of a tourist attraction as opposed to a degenerate strip bar.
- [22:46]
Unknown
And it's like a. It's like more of a girls and gays hangout.
- [22:51]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah, it's, like, campy.
- [22:52]
Unknown
Yeah, it's like a funny strip club. Everybody's being hilarious.
- [22:56]
Sarah Sherman
It's kind of like that weird one in Atlanta.
- [22:58]
Unknown
Oh, Claremont Lounge. Oh, amazing. And they have a hotel there now, so you can stay in the hotel next door. Oh, right on top of it.
- [23:06]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [23:06]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [23:07]
Sarah Sherman
And isn't there some woman who's been there for, like, 50, 60 years?
- [23:10]
Unknown
And God bless. I hope she's there right now doing the morning shift.
- [23:15]
Sarah Sherman
I once I saw a very sad thing at a strip club. I know it's hard to believe.
- [23:19]
Unknown
Oh, that's okay. You being there. I'm kidding.
- [23:22]
Sarah Sherman
No. I was never one for that kind of stuff. But we ended up like it was back before I sobered up and I was doing Acme in Minneapolis, and it was during the day, and we were just up and drinking, and we went over there, and it was like an open mic for strippers.
- [23:41]
Unknown
Oh, like an audition or like, kind of.
- [23:43]
Sarah Sherman
But it was like. And it was. There was something very sad about it. Like, it definitely felt like some of these women did not really want to be doing that.
- [23:50]
Unknown
But if Even if you think that, like, that's a real skill. Yeah, sure.
- [23:57]
Sarah Sherman
Well, this was not a professional show. It was a little heartbreaking.
- [24:03]
Unknown
Right.
- [24:03]
Sarah Sherman
I don't think that's the right effect.
- [24:05]
Unknown
But we've been to open mics at that time of day, and that's way sadder. Cause there's no skill involved.
- [24:11]
Marc Maron
In fact.
- [24:12]
Sarah Sherman
You mean the comedy open mics? The ones that happen at, like, three in the afternoon?
- [24:17]
Marc Maron
There's too many comics.
- [24:18]
Unknown
Yep. There are a lot of them.
- [24:20]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah, there are a lot.
- [24:22]
Marc Maron
And I don't know how you can do that.
- [24:23]
Sarah Sherman
You're just performing for a room full of peers at a coffee shop in the afternoon. How do you know when you're being funny?
- [24:31]
Unknown
I don't, but it's so. I did it for so long that it's like I don't even know any other way to do comedy. Do you know what I'm saying?
- [24:41]
Sarah Sherman
Oh, you've done those shows?
- [24:42]
Unknown
I did. I hosted an open mic in Chicago for three years. Cole's open mic, shout out from 8pm.
- [24:47]
Sarah Sherman
To 2am well, that's at night at least, right?
- [24:50]
Unknown
At least, yeah.
- [24:51]
Sarah Sherman
You know, it's like anytime you go on stage and it's the light out, it doesn't feel correct. It's just. It's not. Because when it gets dark, then it's like, dark, right? In the dark, it can do the thing.
- [25:02]
Unknown
Right. You could bomb and then, like, skulk away into the darkness. No one can see you.
- [25:07]
Sarah Sherman
But, like, where. Where did you come from?
- [25:10]
Unknown
I'm from Long Island. Great Neck, New York.
- [25:14]
Sarah Sherman
That's one of the five towns.
- [25:15]
Unknown
That's one of the towns. It's the home of John Taffer.
- [25:18]
Sarah Sherman
John Taffer.
- [25:19]
Unknown
Andy Kaufman's synagogue was right down the street from my synagogue.
- [25:23]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah, I had cousins there in Hewlett.
- [25:25]
Unknown
Oh, really?
- [25:26]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [25:27]
Unknown
You're not Jewish. Yes, you are Jewish. You are.
- [25:30]
Sarah Sherman
You are 99.9 Ashkenaz. Full through, all the way through back to the Ukraine, up into the Pale Settlement, all the way.
- [25:39]
Unknown
And you have stomach problems?
- [25:41]
Sarah Sherman
No, I don't. I don't.
- [25:42]
Unknown
What?
- [25:42]
Sarah Sherman
I don't have stomach problems at all. I think I have anxiety issues.
- [25:47]
Unknown
Right.
- [25:47]
Sarah Sherman
But I did not get the Ashkenaz. Stomach problems. My brother does a little lactose intolerant.
- [25:52]
Unknown
Right.
- [25:53]
Sarah Sherman
You.
- [25:53]
Unknown
I'm fully lactose. I mean, it's any physical or spiritual malady. I have, like, manifests as, like, a stomach.
- [26:01]
Sarah Sherman
Really?
- [26:01]
Unknown
Disorder.
- [26:02]
Sarah Sherman
Really?
- [26:03]
Unknown
Yes. Like, when you said, like, earlier, you were like, oh, yeah, I'm doing vegan. I just interpreted it as Jewish stomach?
- [26:11]
Sarah Sherman
Oh, no, no, my stomach's pretty good.
- [26:14]
Unknown
You just care about animals and other creatures?
- [26:17]
Sarah Sherman
Well, no, it was more of a.
- [26:19]
Unknown
You don't care about the creatures on God's greenhouse?
- [26:21]
Sarah Sherman
I care about most of them. But if I'm one step removed, my caring is tempered by the fact that I'm wearing boots right now. I got a lot of shit from the vegan community that I couldn't call myself vegan.
- [26:33]
Unknown
I'm literally putting my cup of coffee for the listeners at home. I'm putting my cup of coffee down on a leather coaster.
- [26:40]
Sarah Sherman
Exactly. And I bought that it was surplus at a shop in Canada. It's for the Alberta Red Cross. Just had this. These things of rejects and I just bought them. The other ones are Jimmy Fallon coasters.
- [26:54]
Unknown
Wow.
- [26:54]
Sarah Sherman
But they're weather too.
- [26:55]
Marc Maron
No, it's not about animals.
- [26:56]
Sarah Sherman
It's about cholesterol.
- [26:57]
Marc Maron
It's about, you know, if I don't.
- [26:59]
Sarah Sherman
Have a bad gut. But I think my heart's not the best.
- [27:02]
Unknown
Right.
- [27:02]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah, that's what I got.
- [27:04]
Unknown
Do you think the anxiety helped?
- [27:08]
Sarah Sherman
Do you get anxiety?
- [27:11]
Unknown
I didn't sleep all last night.
- [27:13]
Sarah Sherman
Why?
- [27:13]
Unknown
I was just anxious. I just get anxious and I can't sleep.
- [27:16]
Sarah Sherman
Do you spin shit in your head? Like, what do you.
- [27:19]
Unknown
Million percent.
- [27:20]
Sarah Sherman
But like, what goes. I mean, like, I. I've somehow managed to be able to sleep as an older person. I don't know how, but I don't.
- [27:26]
Unknown
Magnesium. I saw you taking the magnesium.
- [27:28]
Marc Maron
That's during the day.
- [27:29]
Sarah Sherman
It's not the same magnesium. But like, when your brain spins, like, what do you. Are you full of dread?
- [27:34]
Unknown
Yes.
- [27:35]
Sarah Sherman
Dread.
- [27:36]
Unknown
Yes. And just any. You know, I'm just thinking. I can't stop thinking constantly about everything I've ever done and everything that's going to happen badly.
- [27:45]
Sarah Sherman
Really?
- [27:45]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [27:46]
Sarah Sherman
And you just manage that?
- [27:48]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [27:49]
Sarah Sherman
So you think about things you've done and be like, you fucking idiot.
- [27:51]
Unknown
Yes. And then I'll play them out and like there'll be like different scenarios and it's, you know, the mind is amazing what's going on in there. It's like, why pay for the movies when you get ones for free?
- [28:00]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [28:00]
Sarah Sherman
And you have no control over them. You literally have to try to shut the screen off.
- [28:04]
Unknown
Yes.
- [28:04]
Sarah Sherman
It's the worst. Hey, I think I'm sleeping. Am I sleeping?
- [28:07]
Unknown
I'm sleeping and it's humiliating. But do you see what I'm wearing on my finger?
- [28:10]
Sarah Sherman
Is that one of those. I got. I got a whoop watch.
- [28:14]
Unknown
Because. Are you finding out about when you're sleeping.
- [28:17]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [28:18]
Unknown
Because you know, you'll just be lying there and you're like, I assumed I had slept at some point.
- [28:21]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [28:22]
Unknown
But then I'll look at the ring and it's like, oh, I never was sleeping that whole time.
- [28:25]
Sarah Sherman
That's the fucking worst. I only sleep like maybe six, six to seven hours.
- [28:31]
Unknown
I would love a classic eight. I would.
- [28:33]
Sarah Sherman
I can't do a classic eight.
- [28:34]
Unknown
It's. But it's one of. One of the things that's going to help your heart, make you live forever. If you get one of those classic.
- [28:40]
Sarah Sherman
Tell my bladder.
- [28:43]
Unknown
So you're hydrating. That's good. You live in the desert. You should hydrate.
- [28:45]
Sarah Sherman
I hydrate, yeah. Well, what are you on medicine?
- [28:48]
Unknown
No.
- [28:48]
Sarah Sherman
Did you just forego it?
- [28:50]
Unknown
I go to therapy twice a week. Doesn't do anything twice a week. Sits there. He doesn't say, I'm there saying the most interesting fucking shit on the planet.
- [28:59]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah. Nothing.
- [29:00]
Unknown
He's got some stuff. I mean, I was like going to trippy therapist. I had like a dream analyst. I wasn't.
- [29:06]
Sarah Sherman
How'd that go?
- [29:07]
Unknown
If you don't sleep, you have to make up dreams. Well, I will also wake up in the middle of the night because I've had a crazy dream.
- [29:13]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [29:14]
Unknown
And my most recurring dream is. It is. Maybe you've had this being on stage trying to scream. No one can hear you. I'm talking. No one can hear me. Crowd going crazy or I'm screaming. No sound. I have a throat chakra thing.
- [29:29]
Sarah Sherman
So, yeah. Oh, really? How did you land on throat chakra? Which therapist told you that?
- [29:35]
Unknown
Oh, the craziest one, actually. These people should be arrested. These people should be in jail. You ever, like, talk to a friend and they're like, yeah, my therapist told me some fucking crazy bullshit. And you're like, they should be in jail. It's not working. Is my voice piercing? I feel like it's blowing out.
- [29:52]
Sarah Sherman
But that, that is interesting because you realize that, like, these therapists are just fucked up people. What do they have to do to be a therapist? Theoretically, they have to do a certain amount of hours to get certified. But what does that mean, really? It's all up to them and their ideas. I went to therapy today.
- [30:06]
Unknown
And how was that?
- [30:07]
Marc Maron
It was all right.
- [30:08]
Sarah Sherman
I just started back up again. I hadn't been in years.
- [30:10]
Unknown
And it started today?
- [30:11]
Sarah Sherman
No, no, I just went today. I've been going for the last few weeks because usually I'll only go if I need to, you know, kind of get something like If I'm stuck.
- [30:21]
Unknown
No, you gotta be watering the garden. You can't only go and it's an emergency.
- [30:25]
Marc Maron
It's not an emergency.
- [30:27]
Sarah Sherman
It's a specific problem that I know will take some time.
- [30:29]
Unknown
Okay, you're massaging the issue.
- [30:31]
Sarah Sherman
Right?
- [30:31]
Unknown
Right.
- [30:33]
Sarah Sherman
But, like, I can't stay in there the whole time just paying a person to just be like, what?
- [30:38]
Unknown
And what.
- [30:38]
Marc Maron
I can talk to you. Psycho.
- [30:40]
Sarah Sherman
I'm going to think about my throat chakra.
- [30:42]
Unknown
Right.
- [30:44]
Sarah Sherman
But I don't have a problem with the throat chakra.
- [30:45]
Unknown
You don't? Because you communicate a lot.
- [30:48]
Sarah Sherman
But I have a chest chakra problem.
- [30:51]
Unknown
Where your heart is.
- [30:52]
Sarah Sherman
Well, for me, the stress, like, I get tight chest. Like, I can feel it in my breathing. Like, I don't get stomach things, but I get, like, you know, chest tightening.
- [31:01]
Unknown
Okay.
- [31:02]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah, that's where. That's where it happens for me.
- [31:04]
Unknown
Okay.
- [31:05]
Sarah Sherman
Sometimes headaches, but not too often from.
- [31:07]
Unknown
Stress, I guess you get, like, dizzy.
- [31:10]
Sarah Sherman
No, I wouldn't know. I mean, I'm on, like, the fucking zins all day. I drink too much coffee. I wouldn't know. If I had long Covid, I wouldn't know. I don't know what the baseline of, hey, I feel good is. Don't know.
- [31:20]
Unknown
Right. Maybe long Covid is just like existential dread.
- [31:24]
Sarah Sherman
Right, Right. It's like Epstein Barr dread.
- [31:26]
Unknown
Right. Which one's that?
- [31:28]
Sarah Sherman
That's the one that everyone had for a while.
- [31:29]
Unknown
Right, Right.
- [31:30]
Sarah Sherman
Tired.
- [31:30]
Unknown
Like lime tired.
- [31:31]
Sarah Sherman
No, lime's real.
- [31:32]
Unknown
Lime's real.
- [31:33]
Sarah Sherman
Lime's fucked up.
- [31:34]
Unknown
You have lime?
- [31:35]
Sarah Sherman
I don't. I know a guy has it that can really fuck you up.
- [31:38]
Marc Maron
Ticks.
- [31:39]
Unknown
Well, because they. Like what?
- [31:40]
Sarah Sherman
Like, so immune problem. It really. I don't know what it is.
- [31:43]
Unknown
There's like, military testing, and then the. It leaked from the lab and then the ticks. Got it.
- [31:48]
Sarah Sherman
No, I think you're thinking of COVID.
- [31:49]
Unknown
No, I think that this was also a. Oh, now. Oh, now I'm crazy.
- [31:54]
Sarah Sherman
A little bit.
- [31:54]
Unknown
But I think that there's, like, a theory that Lyme is caused because they were doing some, like, weird military medical experiments on, like.
- [32:04]
Sarah Sherman
Hey, who knows the truth, man. You know, Truth is relative.
- [32:08]
Unknown
Tell that to my therapist.
- [32:09]
Sarah Sherman
So twice a week now. Is this, like, one of these comedian therapists?
- [32:13]
Unknown
No, no, no, no, no. What do you take me for, a fool?
- [32:17]
Sarah Sherman
How'd you find your guy?
- [32:19]
Unknown
I had a therapist so crazy that I was talking about him not to brag at a party, and I was like, I think my fucking therapist is fucking crazy. And then this girl at the party was like, what's your therapist's name?
- [32:33]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [32:33]
Unknown
Told her first and last. She goes, my ex boyfriend was driven into the mouth of madness by that therapist.
- [32:42]
Sarah Sherman
Really?
- [32:43]
Unknown
And she recommended. And then on the spot I was like, who's your therapist? Help me. And she was like, it's this guy. And then he ended up being down the street from my house. So that's my guy now.
- [32:52]
Sarah Sherman
And he doesn't do anything.
- [32:54]
Unknown
I don't. It's. Who can say really?
- [32:57]
Sarah Sherman
But wait, wait, how does. What was so crazy about the other one? How does one. A therapist drive you into madness?
- [33:03]
Unknown
Just, you know, I got like. I was having. Really? Is this interesting at all?
- [33:08]
Sarah Sherman
You're interesting. Just go with it.
- [33:09]
Unknown
I had, I was having. When the Titan submersible imploded, I was having intrusive thoughts throughout the day that I was at the bottom of the ocean and I was in the. In the submersible exploding.
- [33:24]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [33:24]
Unknown
And I would be on Stage @.
- [33:26]
Sarah Sherman
@ SNL.
- [33:27]
Unknown
I was at Talia Hall, Chicago, and I was talking and I was doing my act and in the middle of it, the. Have you ever done Talia Hall? It's a stunning, tall, gothic almost cave.
- [33:38]
Sarah Sherman
And they give you socks.
- [33:39]
Unknown
And they give you socks. Yeah, they give you socks.
- [33:41]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [33:41]
Unknown
I love the sock. Good socks. You're on tour, you need to change your socks. You got socks with all y'. All. So you're on stage and it's like there's this, like, there's a. It has a dark cavern like quality because the ceiling's so tall. And I don't usually do big rooms like that. I usually do short little ceiling comedy clubs. And I was just faced with the events, the immense vast void of the dark space in the Antalya hall. And I was at the bottom of the ocean. I was like, guys, what's good? I know I was just talking about my hemorrhoids five seconds. But I have to be honest with you guys. I'm at the bottom of the ocean. Everyone's like, oh, huh. Yeah, I was just at the bottom. And you know what I think it is because I, when I pathetically attempt to meditate. I do. I. My, my mental, for lack of a better term, safe meditative space was picturing imagining myself at the bottom of the ocean. And I felt so calm there. And then once the Titan submersible exploded, I was like, well, that was my fucking spot, bro. Like, now I don't have a fucking spot.
- [34:37]
Sarah Sherman
You ruined it.
- [34:38]
Unknown
They ruined it.
- [34:39]
Sarah Sherman
Broke your brain.
- [34:40]
Unknown
Yes. And now I don't have it. I actually. Now I don't have a zone that I can just, like, fucking go to, because that was my fucking spot.
- [34:47]
Sarah Sherman
You can't go to the bottom of the ocean anymore.
- [34:48]
Unknown
No. And that was what. And then I would be at the bottom of the ocean and there would be no. You know, because it's like sensory deprivation. There's, like, you know, I can't really hear much. I look, I can see the sunlight, and I'm there now. And actually, I feel like my heart rate is elevating because it used to bring me much joy and.
- [35:05]
Sarah Sherman
But do you feel the submersible? Are you in the submersible or is just suggested?
- [35:10]
Unknown
I just know it.
- [35:11]
Sarah Sherman
Okay.
- [35:12]
Unknown
Because now I have too many, like, mental associations with it.
- [35:15]
Sarah Sherman
Just the whole idea of being crushed by water is pretty awful.
- [35:19]
Unknown
And it used to not be awful to me. I used to not feel crushed when I was at the bottom of the ocean. I used to feel extreme peace.
- [35:25]
Sarah Sherman
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You can't live there anymore. Where do you go now when you meditate? What do you do? Try to.
- [35:30]
Unknown
I just. Fuck. I went to. I started doing tm.
- [35:34]
Sarah Sherman
You did? Did you get a thing?
- [35:35]
Unknown
And I got a thing. So I try to just be at the thing.
- [35:38]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [35:39]
Unknown
But there's this kind of this door that I've been chilling at in my meditations. It's a. Not to brag. It's a golden arch of light.
- [35:49]
Sarah Sherman
Oh, yeah.
- [35:50]
Unknown
And I just kind of chill in front of this door.
- [35:51]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah. You don't go in the door.
- [35:53]
Unknown
Is it opening? No, I'm at the opening. I'm at the threshold.
- [35:55]
Sarah Sherman
Okay. And is there.
- [35:56]
Unknown
Oh, my God, you're catching me, like, at, like, complete psychosis.
- [36:00]
Sarah Sherman
Is there a point?
- [36:01]
Unknown
This is crazy.
- [36:02]
Sarah Sherman
What do you mean? Is there a point where you go to the door? Is there?
- [36:05]
Unknown
I'm just at the door. Light streaming through it.
- [36:07]
Sarah Sherman
But no, there's no sort of, like, when do I get to go through?
- [36:11]
Unknown
You know what's interesting? It's not even about that.
- [36:13]
Sarah Sherman
Okay, good.
- [36:14]
Unknown
Because my mantra appears in the doorway, and I bask in the light of it.
- [36:17]
Sarah Sherman
You doing it twice a day, 20 minutes?
- [36:19]
Unknown
Nope.
- [36:19]
Sarah Sherman
Then what the fuck?
- [36:20]
Unknown
I say that I do it, but I don't. The Lord knows that I do not be doing it.
- [36:24]
Sarah Sherman
No. Once a day, even if I'm good. Yeah.
- [36:29]
Unknown
Something happened. I fell off. You know what? I will. You know what's interesting about podcasting, which is an industry that you are, sir, you're a pioneer of.
- [36:38]
Sarah Sherman
Yes.
- [36:40]
Unknown
Podcasts and the, like, have, like, kind of replaced people's, like, internal monologue.
- [36:47]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [36:47]
Unknown
You know what I'm saying?
- [36:48]
Sarah Sherman
Believe me, I'm hearing from a lot of people today that are concerned about their weeks without hearing my voice in their head.
- [36:54]
Unknown
And I'm not saying that it's good that you're ending the podcast, because obviously it's. I have a great thing going on here. But to the listeners, you should be thinking your thoughts and living in your. In your mind palace.
- [37:04]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah. You mean they should.
- [37:06]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [37:06]
Sarah Sherman
On their own. Yeah.
- [37:07]
Unknown
Like, think about all this stuff that we do instead of, like, meditating.
- [37:10]
Sarah Sherman
Well, I appreciate the idea that it's a mind palace as opposed to, you know, a mind labyrinth of fucking horrors.
- [37:16]
Unknown
No, it should be good in there.
- [37:19]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [37:19]
Sarah Sherman
But you can't even go to the ocean anymore.
- [37:21]
Unknown
I know.
- [37:22]
Sarah Sherman
And, like. And you can't.
- [37:23]
Marc Maron
I can't sleep.
- [37:24]
Unknown
I know. I'm working on it.
- [37:26]
Sarah Sherman
So wait, so you grew up in Great Neck, like, in what? Was your dad in the Jewish businesses?
- [37:31]
Unknown
He's in the schmata business.
- [37:32]
Sarah Sherman
Get the out here. And you're like. You're like a schmata hanger.
- [37:36]
Unknown
Huh? I loved visiting my dad at Shmata in the garment district with all the guys. Old school. Still.
- [37:43]
Sarah Sherman
Still there.
- [37:44]
Unknown
God bless. He's trying, bro. Like, retail, let me tell you. Retail. Post Covid.
- [37:50]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah. So he's in the knockoff business.
- [37:52]
Unknown
Yep. Yes, ma'. Am.
- [37:54]
Sarah Sherman
Oh, my God.
- [37:55]
Unknown
And I loved Visit. And he makes little girls dresses. Shout out to Andrew Sherman.
- [37:59]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [37:59]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [38:00]
Sarah Sherman
Wow. That's amazing.
- [38:01]
Unknown
Yep.
- [38:01]
Sarah Sherman
So you're growing up in the Shmata in the. In the fashion district. Guys pushing carts around, pushing just dozens of suits.
- [38:09]
Unknown
Yep. And I. I. When I was, like, this big, however old. This big is.
- [38:14]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [38:15]
Unknown
I was, like, in the elevator visiting my dad, and I'm like, this is so fucking cool. I'm in Manhattan. I'm in an elevator going up to, like, the 33rd floor. This is, like, sick.
- [38:22]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [38:23]
Unknown
And one of the schmata dudes gets in the elevator, and it's like, andy, your daughter's fucking cute. I gotta get her in my fucking catalog because he made Christmas dresses for Sears.
- [38:33]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [38:34]
Unknown
And I was like. I was this little big. But I wanted to be a comedian. Yeah.
- [38:41]
Sarah Sherman
Something.
- [38:42]
Unknown
I wanted to be a comedian when I was this big.
- [38:44]
Sarah Sherman
How big? Like nine.
- [38:45]
Unknown
I don't even have a memory of not wanting to be a comedian. No, Literally, this big. I'm not kidding.
- [38:50]
Sarah Sherman
Well, who was the comedian? That was your point of reference.
- [38:53]
Unknown
Like, Fran Drescher.
- [38:55]
Sarah Sherman
Yes.
- [38:55]
Unknown
Yeah, that. I mean, literally, like, dude, Fran Drescher. I would, like, go to my aunt's house, and the block of TV was the Nanny and then Golden Girls.
- [39:07]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [39:08]
Unknown
So it was just, like, women being fucking hilarious. And Fran Fine would shop at Filene's basement, where I would shop on Long Island. She would go to Loman's and, like.
- [39:21]
Sarah Sherman
Yes, Lohman's.
- [39:22]
Unknown
Yeah. So that was like. I was like, that's my girl. I mean, this is. So what I'm wearing right now is like a total Fran fight. If this was tight.
- [39:30]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [39:31]
Unknown
This is for the listeners at home. I'm wearing, like, a triple xl garlic Quinn thing. Yeah. Like a circus ten of a shirt. But if this was, like, a tight little thing, that'd be her. Yeah, that'd be her.
- [39:40]
Sarah Sherman
And also, she's so juvenile. So familiar.
- [39:44]
Unknown
She's so familiar to me.
- [39:45]
Sarah Sherman
Like, if you're on the island, that's like every other woman.
- [39:48]
Unknown
Yes. Yes. Except she was so fab. Like, she's so glamorous. Like, I wasn't around that much. Like, true glamour. Like that.
- [39:57]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah. You were on Bloomingdale's. Glamour.
- [40:00]
Unknown
Yes. But that's why I liked Filene's Basement at Loman's, because it still had that, like. It's like the knockoff glam.
- [40:05]
Sarah Sherman
You can find stuff.
- [40:06]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [40:07]
Sarah Sherman
You can find stuff that nobody wanted. Yeah. Yeah, Right. So did you do this year's catalog?
- [40:11]
Unknown
So then I'm in the. I'm like, I'm old enough where I remember, I'm so tiny, and I'm holding, like, my stuffed animal at the time. So that's how young I was. And he was like, andy, you gotta let me put your daughter in my fucking catalog. And I was like, yes, yes. And I was like, begging my dad, like, fuck. Please, please. And my dad was like, no, I'm not fucking doing that. Because my parents, you know, I had wanted to do. I wanted to perform when I was a kid. And I wanted to, like, audition. I would see signs in town for Pinocchio at the jcc. And my parents were like, you're not doing that. So perverts can, like. You know what I'm saying? Like, they were just like, we don't. They didn't want me trafficked in the pervert trade.
- [40:49]
Sarah Sherman
Well, they didn't. They didn't trust the directors or the theater or the.
- [40:53]
Unknown
Like, you're young. Like, I don't want pictures, like, taken of you put in the newspaper. A pervert will see it. Like, that's like, I have a very overprotective dad.
- [41:01]
Marc Maron
And that.
- [41:02]
Sarah Sherman
That was always his fear. That was always his fear that perverts would get you.
- [41:06]
Unknown
Would get me.
- [41:07]
Sarah Sherman
Okay.
- [41:07]
Unknown
And could he have been more right? Like, really think about that?
- [41:12]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [41:13]
Unknown
And so, I mean, these were like. This guy made Christmas dress little girls dresses for the Sears catalog. You know, you get the catalogs on Sundays, whatever.
- [41:22]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [41:22]
Unknown
So I bothered my parents enough that my dad was like, okay, you can model for the fucking.
- [41:28]
Sarah Sherman
Did he have to check the outfits and everything?
- [41:30]
Unknown
No, but he was pissed because it was. There were little Christmas dresses. Yeah, well, no. My dad was like, you're fucking Jewish. You don't know about Christmas. Okay.
- [41:41]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [41:41]
Unknown
You know, one thing and one thing only, and that's like the menorah.
- [41:45]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [41:45]
Unknown
But like, I was raised, like, super. I went to a Conservative synagogue. No one in my family could speak or read Hebrew. No.
- [41:51]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [41:52]
Unknown
No. Yeah.
- [41:52]
Sarah Sherman
It's just a middle class conservative Jew thing.
- [41:55]
Unknown
Yes. And it's always like this, like, inherited holidays, drama. They're coming for you. Be Jewish. Whatever.
- [42:01]
Sarah Sherman
The gift shop with the paintings of the old men and Torahs.
- [42:04]
Unknown
And we had, of course, the shop was called the Zion lion in Great Neck.
- [42:11]
Sarah Sherman
We had a guy, Fred, was it Vestin. There was a Holocaust survivor at my temple that did paintings. So the gift shop, he always had you get one on your bar mitzvah. An original painting by. By him.
- [42:23]
Unknown
Wow.
- [42:24]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [42:24]
Unknown
Do you still have it?
- [42:25]
Sarah Sherman
To this day, I wonder if I have it. I hope I have it. They were always just, you know, old men holding Taurus.
- [42:31]
Unknown
Right.
- [42:31]
Sarah Sherman
And that was the whole thing.
- [42:32]
Unknown
Well, I, of course, used my bat mitzvah to do, like, a routine. Like I was hamming it up up there to the point where I got like a. My mom. I just remember, like, seeing my mom in the front row going like, stop it, stop it.
- [42:45]
Sarah Sherman
So wait, so did your dad put the kibosh on the Christmas outfits?
- [42:49]
Unknown
They let me do. They let me do it. And I just. It was the best day of my life. Like, I had to get up at, like. I remember having to get up at 6am yeah. To go to Manhattan to get my hair and makeup done for the Sears catalog. And I'd never worn a Christmas dress. Like, you know, very stoic Jews. There's no, like, poofy cupcake dresses in my life. Like, only very serious, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, I felt, like, so glamorous. Cause they were doing my makeup. I'd never had my makeup done and I'd never worn A poofy dress. And they sat me like a little. Little Miss Tuffet or Little Miss Muffet on my tuffet on top of a pile of presents in front of a Christmas tree. Like, we didn't have, like, all this shit. We didn't have, like, a fucking sparkly Christmas tree with fancy fucking presents. Like, for Hanukkah, I literally got a pencil case. Like, I never got all this fun shit. But I just remember getting up at 6:00am like, that was the big thing. I had to get up so early.
- [43:43]
Sarah Sherman
Early and get ready.
- [43:44]
Unknown
And get ready.
- [43:44]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah. The Jewish. The. The. You know, the kind of the. The stuff that goes with Jewish holidays. Not very uplifting.
- [43:50]
Unknown
I mean, there's no, like, pomp and circumstance. Yes.
- [43:54]
Sarah Sherman
Everything's wood or rock.
- [43:55]
Unknown
Yes.
- [43:55]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah. Gold chocolate coins that tastes like. Yeah.
- [43:59]
Unknown
By the way, they're always dry and just like a ball of salted pickled fish. It's, like, not fun. It's not fun.
- [44:09]
Sarah Sherman
Do you have a taste for the pickled fish now?
- [44:11]
Unknown
No, it's fucking gross. Like, pickled herring is gross.
- [44:15]
Sarah Sherman
Well, what about, like, smoked. Smoked kipper, salmon?
- [44:19]
Unknown
No, none of this shit. And I had chronic diarrhea my whole life.
- [44:24]
Sarah Sherman
Because you didn't know you were lactose intolerance. Yes.
- [44:26]
Unknown
Because, like, every. I lived in a bagel house, so it was like breakfast, bagel and cream cheese, lunch, tuna fish, bagel dinner, whatever. Dinner was with a side of bagel. And then I'm like. My entire life was like, just diarrhea. Diarrhea blowout. Like, emergency level. Like, never. Like, oh, I have to shit. Give me 20 minutes. Like, it's always an emergency when I have to shit. And then it's like, right, Because I can't have cream cheese on an IV drip. Yeah.
- [44:52]
Marc Maron
No challah. No challah.
- [44:54]
Unknown
Yeah, I love. I love.
- [44:55]
Sarah Sherman
Challah's good, right? Babka.
- [44:57]
Unknown
Love a bab. Well, it's got. It's very dairy.
- [45:00]
Sarah Sherman
That's true. But. But dairy, no, it's just egg. A lot of milk with chocolate.
- [45:04]
Unknown
I guess it doesn't always matter.
- [45:05]
Sarah Sherman
I guess that's true.
- [45:06]
Unknown
But, like, if I could have a. I would, like, go nuts on a kugel right now.
- [45:09]
Sarah Sherman
Right? Yeah, the sweet kind.
- [45:11]
Unknown
I would go nuts on that.
- [45:12]
Sarah Sherman
But not.
- [45:13]
Unknown
That's like a whole jar of milk. But anyway, so then. So then after I do the photo shoot, every single weekend, the brochures come out, the Sears brochures, and I'm looking for my picture. I'm looking for my picture. I'm like, And I can't find it. I don't see it. I'm never in it. And every. Every weekend, I'm like, where's my picture in the brochure? My dad went. My dad took it as an opportunity to do like, a, like, Jewish supremacy proud moment. It was like, they didn't put you in the fucking Christmas catalog because you're too fucking Jewish. That's what they told me.
- [45:43]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [45:43]
Unknown
Turned out my dad was just saying that. Like, it's like. I saw. Basically when I was, like. I was, like, home from college. I was looking through old photos. I found the negatives from that photo shoot, and I just looked like. I didn't know how to smile. I had bags under my eyes because of, like, you know, I had to get up at 6am I was so excited. I probably didn't sleep all night. And I. I was a little tiny thing, like, not even the size of a, like, tadpole. And I had these just, like, luggage under my eyes. Looks so tired. Very old child.
- [46:18]
Sarah Sherman
And so that. That's what did it.
- [46:20]
Unknown
I just was not.
- [46:21]
Sarah Sherman
How'd you feel about that button?
- [46:23]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [46:25]
Sarah Sherman
Was that the end of the fascination?
- [46:27]
Unknown
No.
- [46:28]
Sarah Sherman
So you were, like, probably really young. So when do you start performing the. When do you start annoying everybody with your need for attention?
- [46:36]
Unknown
It's so embarrassing. Like, I wit. It's so cool when people are like, I was like an underwater welder before I got to comedy. It's like, I just want to be a comedian my whole life. And so, you know.
- [46:47]
Sarah Sherman
But, like, who are the other people? Fran Drescher. Just who are the other people that.
- [46:51]
Unknown
Are like, I want to. Addicted to Seinfeld.
- [46:53]
Sarah Sherman
Oh, really?
- [46:53]
Unknown
Like, I memorized, like, every Steve Martin thing. Like, I memorized the three amigos.
- [46:59]
Sarah Sherman
Wow.
- [46:59]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [46:59]
Sarah Sherman
When you were like, what, 10?
- [47:01]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [47:02]
Sarah Sherman
Really?
- [47:02]
Unknown
Like a. Yeah, like, literally, like, I'll even try to, like, impress Lauren now by being like, will you kiss me on the veranda? Lips is fine. And he's like, all right, cool. Like, I wrote that. Whatever. It's not, you know, you're not impressing me right now, so.
- [47:16]
Sarah Sherman
But do you have siblings?
- [47:18]
Unknown
Yeah, I have a little brother.
- [47:19]
Sarah Sherman
How's he holding up?
- [47:20]
Unknown
He's the best. Yeah, he's like a. Like my little brother. Like, you know, because I was always a little freak. And then my. My brother, he's like. He's like a business guy. Yeah, Like a business bro. He was like the pledge master at his Jewish fraternity. Some. Something like that. He's just my dad's ZBT something Like that?
- [47:42]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [47:43]
Unknown
I was sorry, Jack. I wish I knew.
- [47:45]
Sarah Sherman
You don't need to know.
- [47:46]
Unknown
I told him when he joined a frat, I was like, how dare you know? I was like, he's five years younger than me. But, you know, when he joined, I was like, how fucking dare you join that? That is a codified rape institution. Like, what are you doing?
- [47:59]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [47:59]
Unknown
And he's like, shut up. You don't know how to hang. I mean, I did. I didn't know how to hang for a really long time. I was very uptight.
- [48:08]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah. Not anymore.
- [48:09]
Unknown
No. He would, like, come home drunk and I would be like, what are you doing? Get your shit together. He'd be like, bro, I'm 16. I'm having fun. Relax.
- [48:17]
Sarah Sherman
And you were still at home when you were 20?
- [48:20]
Unknown
No, I would. I went to. I went to college in Chicago.
- [48:25]
Sarah Sherman
When did you start doing comedy? And for real, I did my first.
- [48:28]
Unknown
Open mic when I was 16 years old.
- [48:29]
Sarah Sherman
Where at Pips.
- [48:30]
Unknown
At the. At the Hog Pit, nyc. Because you could do. It was a. It's a barbecue restaurant.
- [48:35]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [48:36]
Unknown
So you could do an open mic under 21.
- [48:40]
Sarah Sherman
Where was that?
- [48:40]
Unknown
Somewhere in midtown. I can't remember.
- [48:42]
Marc Maron
Times Square.
- [48:42]
Unknown
In my head, it's like where dinosaur barbecue was. But I don't think that's it.
- [48:47]
Sarah Sherman
And I can't imagine Hell's Kitchen kind of.
- [48:51]
Unknown
It had to have been like, walking distance from Penn Station, because it's like, I can't imagine myself as a 16 year old, like, venturing far from Penn Station. But I wore a bow tie and the host made fun of me.
- [49:01]
Sarah Sherman
Oh, okay.
- [49:01]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [49:02]
Sarah Sherman
And what'd you do?
- [49:04]
Unknown
I had a joke. I had a joke that was something like, my virginity is so old. You could get it on the Antiques Roadshow or something like that.
- [49:19]
Sarah Sherman
Classic.
- [49:20]
Unknown
Well, that's also like, who was fucking and sucking at 16? That I was feeling so old. And then one thing about you guys feel bad that you have to be in this room with me for five minutes. How do you think I feel? I have to be with me forever.
- [49:37]
Sarah Sherman
That's pretty good.
- [49:38]
Unknown
That's not bad.
- [49:39]
Sarah Sherman
Not bad. Yeah, I like it. Already aware of it. That was like pretty poetic self deprecation.
- [49:46]
Unknown
I thought so.
- [49:47]
Sarah Sherman
Big. Yeah.
- [49:48]
Unknown
I thought so.
- [49:49]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah. Yeah. Just the misery of me.
- [49:50]
Unknown
But then I couldn't really take it when the host made fun of my bow tie. I remember being like, oh, man, you fucking. Yeah.
- [49:58]
Sarah Sherman
Hurt your feelings.
- [50:01]
Unknown
I think I was like. It was the first time that I was aware of, like. Because he was miserable. He was this, like, big fat 40 year old hosting a open mic at the Hog Pit. At the Hog Pit. And there was a game on, there were ribs out. Like, he wasn't happy. And so I was, like, kind of confronted with, like, the misery of, like, being a comedian and the shrapnel of someone else.
- [50:24]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah, yeah. So was that. How long did you put it on the shelf after that experience?
- [50:29]
Unknown
I didn't.
- [50:30]
Sarah Sherman
You kept going.
- [50:31]
Unknown
I, like, you know, I didn't. I had an improv troupe in high school. We would perform in the basement of the local public library.
- [50:38]
Sarah Sherman
How'd that go?
- [50:40]
Unknown
Awesome.
- [50:42]
Sarah Sherman
But what. What were you doing?
- [50:44]
Unknown
I don't know, but whatever. Like, children doing improv do.
- [50:48]
Marc Maron
Well, when did.
- [50:49]
Sarah Sherman
Like, when does your. Your mind get blown to create what you are now? Like, when did you. Was it in college where you started to inform your thing?
- [51:03]
Unknown
Yeah. And you know what was funny, too? Like, I grew up, like, addicted to, like, peewee and all, you know, and something, like, happened where. I don't know how to say this without sounding like, kind of like a jag off, but, like, you know, I'm like, a visual artist as well, and I didn't know about, like, marrying the two. Like, even though I grew up on Pee Wee and, like, was addicted to Pee Wee, you didn't make the connection. I would do standup, and then, like, it took me until college where I, like, realized that I could, like, have it. I could do both at the same time. Like, I would make posters for the standup show.
- [51:43]
Sarah Sherman
But, like, even with Pee Wee, you didn't, like, you didn't make the connection that the set was part of the presentation. Like, Gary Panther had put together this, you know, this really conceptual, kind of punk camp set to inform the entire situation.
- [51:57]
Unknown
Like, I knew that that was, like, the playhouse. It was like, the only place in the world that was safe to go to.
- [52:03]
Sarah Sherman
Right.
- [52:04]
Unknown
But for some reason, like, you know, just starting out as standup, I was. So I just didn't realize that it could all be one thing while I was doing it. It was all like, I had a bifurcated mind or something.
- [52:16]
Sarah Sherman
Well, yeah, because the stand up is like, I go up and I talk.
- [52:19]
Unknown
Yeah, right.
- [52:20]
Sarah Sherman
And so. But you didn't. Like, there was no point where you, like, got hip to performance artists or any of that.
- [52:26]
Unknown
So then when I moved to Chicago. So then, like, when I was. And then when I. How old are you when you graduate.
- [52:33]
Sarah Sherman
High school or college? I don't know, maybe 20.
- [52:36]
Unknown
20.
- [52:36]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [52:37]
Unknown
So when I was. When I graduated college, I Was like, oh, my God, this could be all one thing. And then I was in the, like, Chicago DIY scene with these, like, crazy performance artists who were doing, like, nuts stuff. And I started, like.
- [52:49]
Sarah Sherman
What was it called?
- [52:50]
Unknown
The Chicago DIY scene.
- [52:52]
Sarah Sherman
DIY scene. So that was something that wasn't stand up or improv. It was this other thing.
- [52:56]
Unknown
It was just people, like, there was. Chicago has a really big, like, noise scene. It was crazy. Like, my friend Jill would do this act called Forced into Femininity, where she. He would, like, take a bag of crickets and scream into a contact mic and be like, you know, whatever. So I was like. So then I started this show with my friends called. It was called Hell Trap Nightmare, which was just basically just figuring out how to blend the two. Do you know Ian Abramson? He's a comic. He lived here in LA for a while. I was doing this performance thing where I was. It wasn't very funny. And I'm gonna describe something that's not funny. But I'm, you know, I'm secure enough to admit that I've done a lot of unfunny things in my life.
- [53:43]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [53:44]
Unknown
I was doing this thing. I mean. Yes, yes. I feel like I said there were luggage bags under my eyes. I didn't get a laugh. I noticed that.
- [53:54]
Sarah Sherman
I remember I'm laughing at unique places.
- [53:57]
Unknown
You're smiling.
- [53:58]
Sarah Sherman
I laughed a few times.
- [53:59]
Unknown
Okay, that's good.
- [54:00]
Sarah Sherman
The. You know, the bagel house. That was good. You grew up in a bagel house?
- [54:04]
Unknown
Yeah, I did grow up in a bagel house. Oh, there you go. I gave him cream cheese.
- [54:08]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [54:08]
Unknown
No, I've been laughing.
- [54:09]
Sarah Sherman
All right. So this guy Abrahamson.
- [54:11]
Unknown
So I was like, doing this bit where, like, I started incorporating, like, multimedia elements into my stuff. Cause I was like, oh, yeah. I can make visual art and comedy at the same time. So I did this, like, game called just. I'm gonna be vulnerable and honest and just be honest with what I was doing.
- [54:30]
Sarah Sherman
Okay. I'll hold the space for.
- [54:33]
Unknown
Did Sarah from. Where did Sarah pluck that? Hera. That's what it was called. Okay. And there's these crazy graphics and whatever. And so I would show these, like, blown up body hairs on the projector.
- [54:45]
Sarah Sherman
Nice.
- [54:45]
Unknown
And be like, where did this come from? Like, is this a nipple hair? A body or whatever?
- [54:49]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [54:49]
Unknown
And I would, like. I had a laser pointer. I was like, pointing at, like, the follicle and whatever. You know, I'd be like, you know, I'd. Whatever. It was like, kind of crowd work. Yeah, whatever. And so it was like a game show. I mean, people were. It wasn't funny, but it was interesting.
- [55:04]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [55:05]
Unknown
So, you know, so I had, like, a bunch of hairs, and they had to guess where the hair. Where on my body the hairs were from.
- [55:10]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah. Was it a trick question or.
- [55:11]
Unknown
Well, then the trick question started happening. Where some of the hairs were from Goats.
- [55:16]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [55:18]
Unknown
And I got. I found a goat. I don't remember how this happened, but I found. I was reading some news story because, you know, listen, I'm not gonna say I don't read.
- [55:34]
Sarah Sherman
Sure. You try to keep up.
- [55:35]
Unknown
Yeah. Not to brag. I was reading a newspaper, and I had found out that, like, some people use herds of goats to manicure their lawns or like. Like vegetation or something, get rid of weeds. And I found out there was a place called Goat island in Illinois that you have to take. It's a farm where there's just, like, hundreds of goats.
- [56:05]
Sarah Sherman
And they make them available by the herd.
- [56:06]
Unknown
Yes. And you can rent their goats, but they live on this island where they're just, like, eating trees and shit. It's a tiny island. So I called the farmer, the Goat island farmer, and I was like, can I go to this goat island and film a video? He was like, yeah, no problem.
- [56:21]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [56:22]
Unknown
And I went to the Goat island in a wedding dress, and I just filmed a bunch of, like, very video.
- [56:30]
Sarah Sherman
Art videos of you in the riding dress and the goats.
- [56:33]
Unknown
And the goats. And there was, like, hundreds of goats. And they're, like, smelling my hair. Whatever.
- [56:36]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [56:36]
Unknown
And so then I would show these videos.
- [56:38]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [56:38]
Unknown
And like, be like, do you think this hair is, like a butt crack hair? Do you think it's whatever? And it'd be like, trick questions from these goats. And I would show these fucking crazy videos of, like, hundreds of goats, and people would be like, whoa, whatever. But at the time, I was so new to this kind of performance style. Like, I did this show that Ian Abramson was hosting, and all this multimedia content was on one MP4 video file that I had memorized the timestamps. Like, I was like, oh, this happens at 11 seconds. Whatever. And he was like, this could be like a PowerPoint. Like, I didn't even. You know what I'm saying? I was like, literally being, like, showing an image, knowing that it's gonna be on the projector for 11 seconds. You know what I'm like, so you.
- [57:21]
Sarah Sherman
Didn'T have the technical. Know how?
- [57:23]
Unknown
Yeah. So. But that was this big breakthrough. Yeah. Shout out to Ian Abramson. Being like, this could be on a PowerPoint. You don't have to be like. And I was being like. You know, I was trying to incorporate crowd work, but it was, like, timed. Whatever.
- [57:35]
It was crazy.
- [57:35]
Sarah Sherman
Wow. So he took a load off of your shoulders.
- [57:38]
Unknown
I like. Thank you, Ian Abramson. You just cracked it wide open.
- [57:42]
Sarah Sherman
And now the PowerPoint was the thing.
- [57:44]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [57:45]
Sarah Sherman
Did you try to do straight stand up as well?
- [57:47]
Unknown
I was, yeah.
- [57:48]
Sarah Sherman
So you're doing both?
- [57:49]
Unknown
Yeah, I was doing both, but that.
- [57:51]
Sarah Sherman
Was the beginning of the integration.
- [57:52]
Unknown
That was the beginning of the integration because I was like. I some. I don't remember what dawned on me that I could do, like, once I started performing in Chicago. And there's, like, my. One of my best friends in Chicago is this performer, Alex Grelley, who literally, I'm like, whoever you are, wherever you are, get on an airplane right now, go to Chicago, see the best live performance you've ever seen in your entire life.
- [58:15]
Sarah Sherman
What's he do?
- [58:16]
Unknown
Just crazy shit. Like, he does this show called the Grelli Duvall show, inspired by, like, Shelley Duvall, whatever, fairy tale theater, and he's, like, full drag, reenacting, like, getting on top of a giant cardboard falcor and never ending story while singing, like, the Killing Moon by Echo and the Bunnyman or whatever. Look at the same thing. Oh, phone call.
- [58:38]
Sarah Sherman
It's my mother.
- [58:39]
Unknown
Oh. Should we pick up?
- [58:40]
Sarah Sherman
You want it? Yeah, this will be good. Hello? Hello?
- [58:47]
Unknown
Hi, Mark. Everything all right?
- [58:49]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah, everything's good.
- [58:50]
Marc Maron
How are you, Mom?
- [58:51]
Unknown
I'm good. I was eating dinner.
- [58:54]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah? What'd you eat that's good that you're eating?
- [58:58]
Unknown
What did I eat? I'm not even sure, but it was edible.
- [59:02]
Sarah Sherman
Oh, good.
- [59:03]
Marc Maron
And you were playing Jeopardy earlier.
- [59:05]
Unknown
I was playing Jeopardy. And I was playing blackjack.
- [59:10]
Sarah Sherman
Wow. It's a big day. You're really out there being social.
- [59:13]
Unknown
I am, but this is. What's today? Today is a good day. There's things to do.
- [59:20]
Sarah Sherman
Oh, good. Well, that's good, Mom. I just wanted to check in.
- [59:23]
Marc Maron
I'm gonna.
- [59:24]
Sarah Sherman
I'm in the middle of an interview and. You're doing okay, though, huh? Craig's gonna be away for a week.
- [59:32]
Unknown
A month.
- [59:33]
Sarah Sherman
A month. Oh.
- [59:35]
Marc Maron
Yep.
- [59:36]
Sarah Sherman
All right, well, I'm around if you need me to fly down and, you know, do something.
- [59:42]
Unknown
Okay, babe, it's good to know.
- [59:45]
Sarah Sherman
All right, well, I love you. I'll talk. I'll call you in a couple days.
- [59:48]
Unknown
Okay.
- [59:48]
Sarah Sherman
Bye. Bye.
- [59:50]
Unknown
We're in Boca.
- [59:52]
Sarah Sherman
She's up by. She's in a place my brother put her. I don't know.
- [59:55]
Marc Maron
She lived in Hollywood.
- [59:57]
Unknown
She did.
- [59:58]
Sarah Sherman
Hollywood, Florida?
- [59:59]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [59:59]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah. No, never. Boca. My grandparents were in Boca for years.
- [60:03]
Unknown
Jews in Hollywood?
- [60:04]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, they're around. I think they're getting less and less.
- [60:08]
Unknown
Right.
- [60:08]
Sarah Sherman
So this. This guy, the drag show.
- [60:11]
Unknown
Right. So I just, like, my mind was getting blown constantly. And like, my friends, I was doing all these shows with these like, like electronic guys from the record label called, like, How Sioux Mountain. And they were just like, they would have be putting out music from this like, band called like Maculadog that like, they would perform with like horse tails and like GoPro cameras on their head, like unicorn horns that were like projecting onto the wall behind, like just doing really out shit. So I was always.
- [60:41]
Sarah Sherman
You're so lucky that you found that shit.
- [60:43]
Unknown
It changed my life because I was. I loved comedy for so forever.
- [60:51]
Sarah Sherman
Like, but. But regular standup. So, like. Cause I was trying to figure that out. Today I was talking to my producer and I was like, you know, I knew there had to be some performance art back there, but, like, it seems like inherently you're a song and dance person.
- [61:06]
Unknown
Yes.
- [61:07]
Sarah Sherman
That your chops and your stage habits are very kind of old school.
- [61:13]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [61:13]
Sarah Sherman
Right.
- [61:14]
Unknown
I would even say hack, but I don't care about that. I like jokes.
- [61:18]
Sarah Sherman
No, no, I know. I don't think it's hack, but clearly, you know, the embracing that.
- [61:24]
Marc Maron
Was there ever a point of frustration.
- [61:25]
Sarah Sherman
Where you were doing stand up and you're like, there's gotta be more to this?
- [61:30]
Unknown
I think that's just when I immediately just started incorporating the other elements that were interesting to me, to the point where it's like, I've overcomplicated things and like, literally I did. Did you ever go to Weirdo Night at Zebulon, hosted by Dynasty Handbag? You should. It's the best show in la.
- [61:45]
Sarah Sherman
Okay.
- [61:46]
Unknown
Dynasty Handbag is like the funniest performance artist ever. And I. When I moved to LA in 2019, I did her show and I've got bells and fucking whistles. I got a costume, I've got visual stuff, I've got jokes, I've got whatever. And she was like, you are enough. You don't have to fucking kill yourself every time you do a goddamn bar show.
- [62:09]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [62:10]
Unknown
You know, and I.
- [62:11]
Sarah Sherman
Another big moment.
- [62:12]
Unknown
Yes.
- [62:13]
Sarah Sherman
So you just could. You didn't have to bring all this stuff.
- [62:15]
Unknown
You could bring half of it. Yeah, I can just bring some of it.
- [62:21]
Sarah Sherman
You know, when do you start. When does it start getting fluidy? Like, you know, when does the. You Know, kind of like, didn't she do some vomit work?
- [62:31]
Unknown
It was always, like. And then even my, like, stand up was always gross and when did you.
- [62:37]
Sarah Sherman
Start using the name Sarah? Sarah Squirm?
- [62:40]
Unknown
It was a. My friend Ethan Mermelstein, in high school was calling me that as, like, a direction. I broke it.
- [62:47]
Sarah Sherman
You broke what?
- [62:49]
Unknown
I broke the keychain.
- [62:50]
Sarah Sherman
That's okay.
- [62:51]
Unknown
Okay.
- [62:51]
Sarah Sherman
Don't worry about it.
- [62:52]
Unknown
It's a lucky. It's an unlucky eight ball.
- [62:54]
Sarah Sherman
It's an eight ball. I'm not sure where that came from.
- [62:56]
Unknown
Well, it's an ancient heirloom that I've destroyed.
- [62:58]
Sarah Sherman
No, it's a little eight ball keychain. It's a cheap little hoop. It's fixed.
- [63:02]
Unknown
I'll fix it.
- [63:02]
Sarah Sherman
I'll fix it. No, no, you don't have to fix it.
- [63:04]
Unknown
I'll be. That'll be the thing that I'm doing for the rest of the podcast.
- [63:07]
Sarah Sherman
No, don't do it. So there was always, like, blood and guts.
- [63:12]
Unknown
Yeah. And then. Yeah, and then I was like. And, yeah, meat. And then my friend Ethan would, like, make fun of me, and they would call me Squirm and Sherman because I was, like, gross and.
- [63:22]
Sarah Sherman
But he did it because he got laughs.
- [63:24]
Unknown
And then it. I just. I like it. Like, I've always liked, like, Garbage Pail Kids, Ren and Stimpy and kids. Like, gross.
- [63:32]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [63:33]
Unknown
And so I was always kind of, like, preoccupied with that a little bit. And then I got, like, you know, everybody would call me Sarah Squirm. Like, people would call me Squirm.
- [63:42]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [63:43]
Unknown
And then Squirm just, like, reinforced this. Like. And then I just was going on stage as Sarah Squirm because I would do these shows, like, in Chicago with, like, the. Bill would be, like, blood liquor and, like, fucking, you know, like, forced into femininity or Fire tools. And I'd be like, I couldn't just be Sarah Sherman. So then I was Bill to Sarah Squirm. And then, you know, this show that I was doing, Hell Trap Nightmare. I'd make these crazy posters, like, butthole, tampon, whatever, as, like, a trigger warning. Cause the content of the show itself was kind of grotesque as well. Just to prepare people so they know what they're getting into.
- [64:28]
Sarah Sherman
But did you ever look at some of those other weirdos that used to do in New York, like, Ron Athy and those people that were, like, squirting blood everywhere and. And, like, Karen Finley and, like, all that stuff?
- [64:38]
Unknown
I don't know them.
- [64:39]
Sarah Sherman
Oh, well, that was old generation.
- [64:40]
Unknown
Oh, okay.
- [64:41]
Sarah Sherman
Cool. Yeah, yeah. It was like the 70s, performance artists.
- [64:43]
Unknown
Sure, sure.
- [64:44]
Sarah Sherman
Like Ann Magnuson. Any of those people. Interesting, because you got like. Like second generation.
- [64:50]
Unknown
I mean, I knew about, like, Carolee Schneemann, like, people like. I think that that actually was a big influence on me.
- [64:58]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah. There's a girl, a woman who. Reverend Jen, who used to walk around with elf ears on the Lower east side when I was there. There's like.
- [65:06]
Unknown
Love that.
- [65:07]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah. Oh, she was great. She went on to, I think, write BDSM manuals.
- [65:13]
Unknown
Sure, sure, sure. But I'm not a pervert. I'm just gross.
- [65:18]
Sarah Sherman
No, no, no.
- [65:20]
Unknown
Good, that's good.
- [65:22]
Sarah Sherman
No, she wasn't that. Well, she was a little bit of a pervert, but. So this is all just happening. And these were all people, like, your age and around that area, and there was a whole scene there that was like its own authentic thing.
- [65:35]
Unknown
And it's still. It's still Chicago's amazing. Like, I don't ever see it. Anyone who can, who comes up in New York or la, where it's like, employers are watching you. It's like, dude, I was doing these fucking jokes where I was like, aunt, I. Listen, this isn't funny, but I'm just being honest of what I was doing. I would, like, get on stage and be like, so, you know, men like tall drinks of water. I'm like a tall, tall glass of water. I'm a tall glass of clam chowder. And then I would just, like, chug a can of clam chowder on stage. But. And then I had. I don't remember what the joke was. Cold right out there. I would open the can on stage. You know, I'm not a lot with that milk.
- [66:16]
Sarah Sherman
So then you had diarrhea after that?
- [66:17]
Unknown
Of course I'm not. But then, like, something else else happened where, like, I don't remember what the joke is, and I doubt there was a joke, really, where I had a bag of my own pubes that I was like, I had them on stage. I was passing them around, encouraging people to take some of them. And then something happened. Oh, yes, of course. With me. I was like, come on.
- [66:39]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [66:40]
Unknown
People were huffing the bag. Yeah.
- [66:42]
Sarah Sherman
Of course.
- [66:42]
Unknown
They could be so lucky. Take me out to dinner first.
- [66:45]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [66:46]
Unknown
But then this other comic, fucking Jeff Arcuri, he was like, why are they your real pubes? Can't you use a prop? And it, like, never occurred to me. I just. I was like, huh? Why would I lie?
- [67:03]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [67:03]
Sarah Sherman
Now I don't have to wait three months.
- [67:05]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [67:05]
Marc Maron
To get a new puppy.
- [67:07]
Unknown
That's what you give me 18 hours and focus. I could regrow.
- [67:11]
Sarah Sherman
Oh, that's a talent. So there's all these people that were pivotal in saving you time and energy. PowerPoint, props. You don't need to try so hard. What was that? You're enough.
- [67:24]
Unknown
I was like, oh, my God, I'll be taking that to therapy twice a week.
- [67:28]
Sarah Sherman
Use fake pubes.
- [67:29]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [67:30]
Sarah Sherman
These are big moments.
- [67:31]
Unknown
These are. They really are.
- [67:34]
Sarah Sherman
So what was the response you were like, in general, when you do these shows, was it about laughs?
- [67:40]
Unknown
You know, what's so, like now? As someone who's been doing this for long enough, like, I can say, like, oh, I'm experimenting with the push and pull of the repulsion and attraction. Like, you know, people getting grossed out. But then comedy brings you in.
- [67:57]
Sarah Sherman
Right. I get it. Yeah.
- [67:58]
Unknown
So I can say, now, that's an interesting thing I'm playing with.
- [68:02]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [68:03]
Unknown
But at the fucking time, I guess I thought that was fun. I just thought. I think being outrageous is just funny. I just liked being outrageous also, like, once you just start doing stuff like that, like, I also just was so inspired by the other outrageous people. I was, like, around.
- [68:21]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [68:22]
Unknown
And, like, being outrageous would, like. We were doing these tours where we would, like, go to a show at, like, a weird, like, crack house in Detroit. You know, there were more, like, where there was, like, a bunch of crust punks, and then there was more dogs than people. And my friend Ruby, who you met, she was on the tour, too, and she was getting heckled by a man who was on crack heckling her with a large candle.
- [68:48]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah. What do you mean? How does that work?
- [68:50]
Unknown
He just. The floor was dirt and there were dogs. And then a man who was not with us on this planet just was going up to her with a giant Victorian candle and a holder, going, like, holding it up to her.
- [69:05]
Sarah Sherman
Oh, my God.
- [69:05]
Unknown
You know, so it just, like, that was just the journey that I was on.
- [69:08]
Sarah Sherman
Right. Not a regular road gig.
- [69:10]
Unknown
No. But then I. But then I start because I was like, again, there was this thing of, like, I would do shows at the Laugh Factory Chicago, and go on tour with, like, my comedian friends and then do shows at these weird, like, punk houses and go on tour with my, like, weirdo friends. Like, I don't know what again, there was this thing, like, I didn't know so much about marrying them. Them.
- [69:31]
Sarah Sherman
Right. And now you have, I hope.
- [69:34]
Marc Maron
Well, I mean, how?
- [69:35]
Sarah Sherman
Like, of course you have.
- [69:36]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [69:36]
Sarah Sherman
I mean, I don't know, like, the old scene In Chicago, I knew some of those guys. Like, were you?
- [69:40]
Marc Maron
Well, I guess they're.
- [69:41]
Sarah Sherman
They're even older than you, aren't they?
- [69:43]
Unknown
I told you, I'm not a day overlooking 28.
- [69:45]
Sarah Sherman
Like Holmes and Kumail and.
- [69:47]
Unknown
No, I'm all younger.
- [69:48]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah. So that you were the one after them.
- [69:51]
Unknown
Yeah, like the open mic that I hosted, I think the like, lineage of people who hosted it, it was like Cameron Esposito and then she passed it off to Lisa Traeger, and then Lisa Traeger passed it off to Rebecca o' Neil and Sonia Denny, and then they passed it off to me and Alex.
- [70:08]
Sarah Sherman
So that bunch.
- [70:09]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [70:09]
Sarah Sherman
Okay. Well, I mean, but when did you start when you came out here in 2019.
- [70:14]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [70:15]
Sarah Sherman
You were involved, like, I have to assume that like Tim and Eric and like, didn't you?
- [70:18]
Unknown
Oh, my God. Yeah. That was like my Worship them.
- [70:22]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [70:22]
Unknown
Well, that's funny. So then in Chicago, like, I had a bunch of weirdo comedy friends. My friend Toller Wolf was like the funniest guy ever. He came from Madison and so his home club was comedy on State. And they were doing a weekend. Eric Andre was doing a weekend in comedy on State. And so they called my friend Toller and they were like, come open for Eric. Cause he's like, you know, Tolar's a freak. Yeah. And Tolar was like, sarah, you should come. Like, you know you're also a freak. So we took the bus to Madison and I think Eric thought that we were like local Wisconsin college kids, but we were like 25 year old, kind of real Canadians from Chicago. So he was so. He was like, after our sets, he was like, who are you? You're a man. Who are you? Like, he thought we were like 18 year old. Whatever. And so then I met Eric and Eric changed my life. Like, he brought me and Tolar on the road with him.
- [71:21]
Sarah Sherman
Oh yeah.
- [71:22]
Unknown
And I like travel. Like, I opened for him on this big tour with like a tour bus. And like, those were the best shows of my. Cause they were Eric Andre people. So they were like ripping their fucking faces off, begging for Eric to dump ranch all over their face. Like, it was amazing. And then I. So then I moved in 2019, I moved to LA. Cause I was gonna go like work with on some Eric Andre show stuff. Yeah.
- [71:47]
Sarah Sherman
And did you do it?
- [71:48]
Unknown
I did it and I loved it. I love la.
- [71:51]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah. But I mean, Eric was a pivotal part of it.
- [71:55]
Unknown
He said he, like, I mean, also when you're like a young comedian and like, like your idol Is like, you rock, dude. Come on, let's go.
- [72:06]
Sarah Sherman
Let's take some chances.
- [72:08]
Unknown
Crazy. And even Eric, like, Eric took me on the rode with him and he, you know, a lot of my comedy was like, really? I mean, my comedy still is like, I'm disgusting. Whatever. Annoying.
- [72:23]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [72:25]
Unknown
Eric would be like, you're so self deprecating on. Because I would, I would. Like, I don't even know if it's ADD or it's just like I'm constantly commenting on anything that happens in the room. Like, you're going to the bathroom, what number are you doing? Like, whatever. So I'd be like, I'm bombing. You guys hate this. Whatever. And Eric would be like, you're not bombing. So why are you giving people an opportunity to not fucking like you? What's your fucking problem? Yeah, and it's like a very Jewish. Like there could be a room full of people, but you only see the one empty seat. You know what I'm saying?
- [72:54]
Sarah Sherman
The one person not laughing.
- [72:55]
Unknown
Yeah, exactly. So like that was just me fully projecting a mental illness on people who just wanted a good time on a weekend. They don't need my fucking baggage. They had a long hard day at the fucking hospital or wherever they worked. They paid $45 to be there or whatever, plus drinks. They don't need my.
- [73:09]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [73:10]
Unknown
So Eric was like, why are you saying you're about. You're not bombing? You rock.
- [73:13]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [73:14]
Unknown
So he.
- [73:15]
Sarah Sherman
Did you stop doing it?
- [73:17]
Unknown
I've. I think I've stopped doing it. Like, honestly, like now I just have like a way to talk about it.
- [73:23]
Sarah Sherman
Right.
- [73:23]
Unknown
As opposed to just like feel me, you know?
- [73:27]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah, Yeah.
- [73:28]
Unknown
I try to be less pathetic.
- [73:30]
Sarah Sherman
So that's good. That's another part of the evolution.
- [73:32]
Unknown
Am I talking way too much?
- [73:33]
Sarah Sherman
No.
- [73:33]
Unknown
Yeah. You made a coffee that's turned me insane.
- [73:36]
Sarah Sherman
I know, it's pretty good, right? I make it strong. But. So Eric Andre was the one that kind of made you feel confident in what you do.
- [73:45]
Unknown
Yes. Yeah, well, like, you know, all my friends that I was doing stuff with in Chicago, like, you know, you're supporting each other and like, even you were saying like, open mics stink. Cause it's like, what's a fucking crowd of a bunch of comedians.
- [73:58]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah, but it's a community. Yeah.
- [73:59]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [74:00]
Sarah Sherman
And like, you know, but it's insulating.
- [74:02]
Unknown
Yeah, it is.
- [74:03]
Sarah Sherman
Right?
- [74:03]
Unknown
Yeah. Right.
- [74:04]
Sarah Sherman
So you're not like, you know, you can all protect each other from the fact that no one gives a fuck what you're doing.
- [74:09]
Unknown
Right. Even though everyone's like, A fucking. It's like Chicago. Someone's, like, a drunk. Whatever.
- [74:13]
Sarah Sherman
So being out into the world of the real show business with this guy who does a specific thing, like, I couldn't believe it.
- [74:18]
Unknown
I'm like, eric Andre thinks we're cool. Like, what the fuck? Like, having a real, like, comedian thinking you're. I mean, and that's another thing. Like, doing comedy in Chicago. Like, real comedians, quote, unquote, would come.
- [74:31]
Sarah Sherman
Through and be like, you know, what are you doing? Is that what they would be like?
- [74:34]
Unknown
Or just, like, if you even got one compliment from a real comedian, it would be, like, life changing. Like, I remember, like, Drew Michael. Do you know him? He came to the mic that I.
- [74:46]
Sarah Sherman
Was hosting from there.
- [74:47]
Unknown
Yeah, he's from Chicago, and he came back and I was hosting a m. This mic, and he was like, you're great. And I'm like, a comedian with, like, a fucking HBO special thinks I'm fucking great. What the fuck?
- [74:59]
Sarah Sherman
Well, I mean, when you. When you are in the community that you're in, which is that, you know, straddling this punk aesthetic and just stand up, you're not like, mainstream standups. Don't. They don't see you in the same way.
- [75:12]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [75:13]
Sarah Sherman
And that, you know, and that kind of judgment has got to be kind of pressure.
- [75:18]
Unknown
But I'm like. So, like, I'm addicted to getting, like, I, like, need to get passed at clubs. Like, there's just this, like, I need that validation that I'm like, like, funny. That's the thing with, like, weird crap. It's like, all right, is this just fucking weird crap that's interesting and not funny?
- [75:32]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah, but you've established yourself as somebody who has control over it. I mean, weird crap has always been there.
- [75:37]
Unknown
Yeah, Right.
- [75:37]
Sarah Sherman
But it's usually only one or two per generation of comics who can do it. Do you know, like, a lot of people use anti comedy as an excuse to not do regular comedy, but the ones that transcend it and make it work are rare. And you're one of them. Well, like, you know, Nathan Fielder was a, you know, an alienator.
- [75:58]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [75:59]
Sarah Sherman
You know, and he's, you know, turned out to be kind of a genius.
- [76:02]
Unknown
Yes, yes. And that the. The term anti. Com. Like, I've been. Listen.
- [76:06]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [76:07]
Unknown
I've been called anti comedy.
- [76:08]
Sarah Sherman
No, I know.
- [76:09]
Unknown
And I don't believe I would. I need it. Like, besides the fact that I would never want to do something not funny, like, I could. I could. I could bond. I bomb. I'm a regular old Oppenheim. I'M out there bombing. But it's to.
- [76:26]
Sarah Sherman
But you believe it's funny.
- [76:27]
Unknown
I'm trying.
- [76:29]
Sarah Sherman
Right.
- [76:30]
Unknown
And anti comedy, like, besides the fact that it's like, I would hope that what I'm doing it. Anti comedy, you know, being called that pisses me off, quite frankly, because I really am trying to make people laugh.
- [76:42]
Sarah Sherman
Well, I think anti comedy is. It's not, not. It's actually a school of thought more than just a criticism. Do you know what I mean?
- [76:48]
Unknown
It's like. Right. Or, or it's like, I don't think anyone sets out to make anti comedy.
- [76:55]
Sarah Sherman
A couple of guys who just.
- [76:56]
Unknown
With bad attitudes.
- [76:58]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah. Bad attitude.
- [76:58]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [76:59]
Sarah Sherman
That's the whole thing. And they can't figure out how to.
- [77:01]
Unknown
Be funny and it's like missing the point. Like, bro, I am fucking Jewish. I have a black bottomless hole inside of me that needs to hear laughter badly. I've clocked every time that you have not laughed today. You know what I mean? But it's like I need to call it anti comedy is to negate the like mental illness of needing to hear the laughs.
- [77:20]
Sarah Sherman
No, no, I think that's what makes you different. I wasn't saying what you were doing.
- [77:23]
Unknown
No.
- [77:23]
Sarah Sherman
Anti comedy.
- [77:24]
Unknown
No idea.
- [77:24]
Sarah Sherman
But you are in the oddball range.
- [77:28]
Unknown
Totally.
- [77:28]
Sarah Sherman
So like when a club is assessing you, especially now, they know that like, well, she knows how to do this. She's a thing.
- [77:36]
Unknown
Right.
- [77:36]
Sarah Sherman
Not like, what the fuck is this person doing?
- [77:39]
Unknown
Right, Right. You know, it's definitely a thing. Say what you will about me, it's a thing.
- [77:43]
Sarah Sherman
Totally a thing. It's a Sarah Squirm thing.
- [77:46]
Unknown
Uh huh.
- [77:46]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah. So what you want to get past at the store?
- [77:50]
Unknown
Yeah, I want to be a fucking comedian.
- [77:52]
Sarah Sherman
What do you do for 15 minutes? What's your 15 minute set? How much shit do you need to.
- [77:56]
Unknown
Bring on stage now? I'm so loving stand up that like even if you come and pay, please come to the show. Even if you come to the show. I'm having so much fun doing standup that all the bells and whistles get so pushed towards the end that I forget to even do them and I cram them all into the last.
- [78:15]
Sarah Sherman
Like that's good.
- [78:16]
Unknown
You know what I mean? So like full circle. Yeah.
- [78:19]
Sarah Sherman
So now when you did like, because I think on snl, honestly, that you. They've let you do you to a degree where they trust your instincts.
- [78:30]
Unknown
Yep.
- [78:30]
Sarah Sherman
And so you're.
- [78:32]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [78:32]
Sarah Sherman
You're able to like write with whoever you're writing with and do Sarah stuff that is still pretty gross. But they know you can pull it off. I have to assume at this point.
- [78:45]
Unknown
Well, SNL was like, a real comedy boot camp. For real. Because it's like, at the end of the day, I mean, everyone could say whatever they want about snl. At the end of the day, the goal, there's like, gotta be jokes.
- [78:59]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [79:00]
Unknown
And like, even, like, as much comedy as I was doing, like, you know, us talking about, like, I needed laughs or whatever. It's like, for real. Everything on the show is, like three to four minutes. Like, there's gotta be a joke every couple seconds.
- [79:14]
Sarah Sherman
Sure.
- [79:14]
Unknown
So it was a real boot camp. And, like, all right, you want to do some weird fucking shit where you got, like, fucking. Be meatballs all over your body. There's gotta be fucking jokes. Like, and it's a real.
- [79:23]
Sarah Sherman
That's not enough of a joke.
- [79:25]
Unknown
No. And that. Actually, that was. I mean, I can't stop talking.
- [79:29]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [79:30]
Unknown
But getting there, I. So. I just so didn't know what I was gonna do. I was so wigged out. I was like, I don't know how I'm gonna do this.
- [79:39]
Sarah Sherman
What?
- [79:40]
Unknown
Like, whatever. And, like, I got there and I met Dan Bola, who, like, he wrote there for a couple years, and he, like, he's the guy in all the Sandler specials playing the piano. He called me and was like, what if we did it? I still didn't know what I was doing. And he was like, let's do a sketch where you're covered in meatballs. And I was like, thank you. Thank you. You see me. You get it. You know? You know. And he was like, and there's gonna be jokes. And I'm like, okay.
- [80:06]
Sarah Sherman
Yes.
- [80:06]
Unknown
It's not enough to just be weird or whatever.
- [80:09]
Sarah Sherman
So you figured that out.
- [80:11]
Unknown
I didn't. I had a lot of help.
- [80:13]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah. Yes.
- [80:14]
Marc Maron
But it was a relief.
- [80:15]
Sarah Sherman
It's gotta be a relief when you stop at meatballs and someone goes, how about these jokes?
- [80:19]
Marc Maron
You gotta be like, great.
- [80:21]
Unknown
Right? Isn't that amazing? At the end of the day, there has to be jokes.
- [80:26]
Sarah Sherman
Right? Right. It's a good lesson to learn when you're covered with meatballs or meat anything.
- [80:33]
Unknown
I was covered in meat for a long. Well, that was another. Like, I would literally go to the meat warehouse in downtown Chicago because you could get. There's a bucket of pig head heads that they give away for free.
- [80:42]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [80:43]
Unknown
Or like, five cents.
- [80:44]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [80:44]
Unknown
And, like, I would cover my body in, like, raw meat from the. Like, that they were, like, getting rid of because it's like, going rotten. I get, you know, whatever for like, some hilarious video or whatever. And, like, it's like, right, I could have made Fake me. I don't know why it has to be real.
- [80:59]
Marc Maron
Oh, my God.
- [81:00]
Unknown
You're like the most popular girl in town.
- [81:02]
Sarah Sherman
But why is it coming through the computer?
- [81:04]
Unknown
Because you have to show me how.
- [81:05]
Sarah Sherman
Popular you are, old man. No, I know. This is a. It's a pest control guy.
- [81:11]
Marc Maron
Well, that's fucking great. You know, it's all been sort of.
- [81:15]
Sarah Sherman
Like these moments in your life that have helped you define who you are. And it kind of helped you arrive at what you're at.
- [81:21]
Unknown
And people always just think of, like, Stand up as so. Like, oh, it's so lonely. You're in your car, you're on the road, you're in a hotel. Like, what? It's like the things that have been the most helpful are, like, other fucking people.
- [81:36]
Sarah Sherman
I think also with you, because you're specific. And the people that get you and want to see you. It's probably like this community of weirdos that you can kind of trust, right? So when you go on the road, I'm sure there are people that are wearing a meat hat that are like, what's going on?
- [81:54]
Marc Maron
You want to go to this thing, right?
- [81:55]
Unknown
And they're insane and they want to smell my hair. But I love them and they can.
- [82:02]
Sarah Sherman
Well, that's good that it worked out. So you just write mostly with that guy. What'd you do for your audition?
- [82:06]
Unknown
I did Stand up. About Gross. Stand up. Like, I didn't know. Well, in Chicago, I did improv Olympic. I did IO.
- [82:19]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [82:20]
Unknown
It wasn't for me. It wasn't like, I Stand up. I found Stand up after college. For real and that, like. Because, you know, I was just trying to figure out, like, doing improv. Doing. I was just trying. And then I realized, like, stand up was for real. Because, like, in improv, they were like, well, you gotta, like, dress normal.
- [82:36]
Sarah Sherman
And I was like, work with other people. Yeah.
- [82:38]
Unknown
But then. So I think, well, I wanna put a pin in that. Working with other people. Because SNL's made me realize that that's what life's about. I could be. I am the most difficult person to work with. But it doesn't mean I don't love it.
- [82:51]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [82:53]
Unknown
When I was, like, 21, I was at I.O. and I, like, did a showcase for SNL. Cause Sharna was like, oh, you know, you should do it. Or whatever. And I was like, I don't know, whatever. And I did, like, a I thought you had to do, like, a character showcase. So I did five minutes that were kind of characters. It was, like, awful.
- [83:14]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [83:14]
Marc Maron
Awful.
- [83:15]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [83:17]
Unknown
And. And then I was like, oh, yeah, whatever. This. Like, I'm not good at this.
- [83:20]
Sarah Sherman
Whatever.
- [83:21]
Unknown
And then I was, like, doing stand up. Whatever. And then when I was like, I get. I was 28 then. They had asked me to showcase again.
- [83:28]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [83:28]
Unknown
And I was like, I learned, like, not to do the fucking. I can't do the fucking character. Whatever. So I just did my own standup, which is, like, blue and terrible. Whatever. And that worked. And I, like, I truly do wonder, like, do they remember that? The 21 year old.
- [83:45]
Sarah Sherman
Right. I'm sure he does.
- [83:46]
Unknown
Was. It was terrible. It was because I thought that's what you had to do.
- [83:50]
Sarah Sherman
They wanted to see you again. They knew your name.
- [83:53]
Unknown
I don't think they knew that that was the same person. Like, seven years later. Like, I just ended up because I had gotten the JFL new Faces.
- [84:00]
Sarah Sherman
Okay.
- [84:01]
Unknown
So I was like, I don't think they knew that was the same person.
- [84:03]
Sarah Sherman
Oh, that's wild.
- [84:04]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [84:04]
Sarah Sherman
So you didn't make. You just made it. You just did the showcase in Chicago.
- [84:07]
Unknown
It was like, no.
- [84:08]
Sarah Sherman
You didn't go to the studio. No. You didn't go to the studio.
- [84:11]
Unknown
I barely made it out of the room. Room. It was terrible. It was humiliating because I was like, oh, I have to do a character. Hello. I'm a mop. You know? I didn't know. I didn't know. I can't do that. I'm not talented. Like, I can't do, like, voice. You know what I mean? I can't do, like, what I thought.
- [84:29]
Sarah Sherman
You can't do it on your own volition, but if you were assigned it, you could figure it out.
- [84:34]
Unknown
Gun to my fucking head.
- [84:36]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [84:37]
Unknown
If you were like, try the. I can figure it out.
- [84:40]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah. Do you get the gun to the head a lot at snl?
- [84:43]
Unknown
It's never, like, made it to air, I don't think. Oh, I did, like, a Nancy Grace thing.
- [84:49]
Sarah Sherman
Oh, yeah.
- [84:51]
Unknown
Because that is like, the whole journey of SNL has been like, try these things you've never done before that you have no training or experience and do it on live television in front of people who hate you. Millions of people who hate you, hate you. Well, you know, it's not like I'm not like, amazing, so, like.
- [85:12]
Sarah Sherman
But it's like, you are now.
- [85:16]
Unknown
Sorta. I'm getting. But it's like I'm learning. That's all I'm trying to Is learning. And so it's just like that. That's what's been so amazing. It's like, you know, they're like, you're in a blonde wig, and you're like a woman. And I'm like, okay, all right. Figure that out for four years. You know what I mean? Or like, you know, I'm. So now that I've been there long enough and you, like, get to know the writers, they're like, you know, our writer Mike decenzo is like, all right, you're gonna play Katy Perry. I'm like, and this was something at table Read. And I'm like, all right, I'll try. Like, fucking. I'm never staying in front of people. You know what I'm saying? So, all right, I'll try fucking being Katy fucking Perry. And I guess it didn't do good enough to leave the table Read, but, you know, it's just trying stuff, like. And I feel so grateful because it's like, when am I or in life are you, like, given that gift of just, like, try it? And it's not like, I had to try it in my basement and pay for it and suffer.
- [86:10]
Sarah Sherman
And it's also good to be put on the spot.
- [86:12]
Unknown
Yes. It gets you out of your head.
- [86:13]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah. You don't overthink it until later.
- [86:16]
Unknown
And that's another thing about Essence. It's. You can't overthink anything. There's no time, there's no sleep. And, you know, obviously, there's, like, shit that can come out of that that's not amazing. But it's been like, I can be. I don't want to call myself a perfectionist because nothing I make is even good. So it's like. Like, why? It's like, perf. Perfection. It's like, no, that's not true. But you know what I'm saying? It's like, not. But it's like, I can belabor something and be anxious about something, and, like, whatever. Whatever. Like, you know, I've been doing standup for 10 years. You'll never see a fucking clip of me on it online. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's like. Cause it's not done. It's not done. It's not finished.
- [86:55]
Sarah Sherman
You know, no one's, like, sneaking a phone in to.
- [86:57]
Unknown
No one knows that I do stand up. No one on God's green earth know knows it.
- [87:01]
Sarah Sherman
What, they see, you tour, I tour.
- [87:03]
Unknown
But they don't know what it is.
- [87:04]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah, well, you call it stand up.
- [87:07]
Unknown
Or whatever it is.
- [87:08]
Sarah Sherman
Right, right, sure.
- [87:09]
Marc Maron
So maybe that's it.
- [87:10]
Sarah Sherman
Maybe if you start calling it stand up.
- [87:12]
Unknown
I do call it Santa.
- [87:14]
Sarah Sherman
Okay, good.
- [87:14]
Unknown
I'm like, it's that Wise guys this weekend. What do you think it is? It's not a sermon.
- [87:20]
Sarah Sherman
I mean, it is, but wise guys is okay.
- [87:22]
Unknown
I. I love clubs.
- [87:24]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah. Wise. The. The one in Salt Lake.
- [87:27]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [87:28]
Sarah Sherman
That's good.
- [87:28]
Unknown
I did Vegas a couple weeks ago.
- [87:30]
Sarah Sherman
I haven't been to their new one. I like their old one.
- [87:32]
Unknown
I did the new one.
- [87:33]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah, I like the old one with the. In Vegas, the one with the low ceilings. Seats about 200 in the arts district. But I know he's.
- [87:38]
Unknown
No, that's the one that. That's the one I did with Pauly.
- [87:40]
Sarah Sherman
Shore on the outside.
- [87:42]
Unknown
Oh my God, he is on the outside. God bless.
- [87:44]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah. No, I like that. That room. I go work out there all the time.
- [87:47]
Unknown
Well, I. I had gotten put in.
- [87:50]
Sarah Sherman
Like, Keith's a good guy, the guy who owns the place.
- [87:52]
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. I had been like, just. Cause I also, like, had done a lot of stuff with like, musicians and stuff. I was always like, I want to do rock rooms. I want to do theaters.
- [88:03]
Sarah Sherman
I don't like rock rooms.
- [88:03]
Unknown
I don't like anything besides comedy clubs anymore.
- [88:06]
Sarah Sherman
Well, unless they seat them. They got to seat them, seat them. The standing up thing, I can't do.
- [88:11]
Unknown
Dude. I did like fucking Central park, sun out, 90 degrees, opening up for. For like an amazing band that I obviously wanted them to like me.
- [88:23]
Sarah Sherman
You can't win in that situation.
- [88:25]
Unknown
It's never. I never learn. I never learn. I do it all the time. I never learn. I always think it's gonna be different. I always think I can convince these people.
- [88:35]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah, no, it's. You gotta learn just so you don't humiliate yourself.
- [88:39]
Unknown
I'm fucking 32 and I haven't learned.
- [88:42]
Sarah Sherman
You got a lot of time. So with. So the collaboration thing, you've learned to do it.
- [88:47]
Unknown
It's life. Yeah, it is. And now, like, I'll go on the road with my best friend Jack Bensinger, who's the funniest person alive.
- [88:54]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [88:55]
Unknown
And like after all of our sets, like, we punch each other jokes up. Like, it's like. That's like. People get like, weird, like when you get off stage and then someone like, gives you a, like, punch up or something. I'm like, that is.
- [89:09]
Sarah Sherman
I don't mind it.
- [89:10]
Unknown
It's a Christmas present. David Spade. I opened for Sandler the first time. I said, you know, I'm talking about, like, my Crotch being like a rotten pastrami sandwich or whatever. It's not funny, but, you know, it's a vodka setup.
- [89:25]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [89:26]
Unknown
And I get off stage and David Spade goes, you got so much old meat in your underwear, you gotta keep a Silica packet in there. And I go, thank you. Thank you. David Spade just gave me a fucking joke, and it's not even fucking Christmas. But people don't like that.
- [89:43]
Marc Maron
I don't mind it.
- [89:44]
Sarah Sherman
Chris Rock gave me a tag that I used for this whole tour. I don't think it made the special, but it was like, I would have never gotten it.
- [89:51]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [89:52]
Marc Maron
The setup was funny enough.
- [89:53]
Sarah Sherman
And that's not all he was doing. And then he just throws me this line and I'm like, all right.
- [89:57]
Unknown
And even if that line doesn't work, it helps you think of a different. But it did.
- [90:01]
Sarah Sherman
Now he does. It just kills. It's one line. I'm like, God damn it.
- [90:04]
Unknown
I know. I know.
- [90:05]
Sarah Sherman
Fuck it. Fuck him.
- [90:07]
Unknown
I know.
- [90:08]
Sarah Sherman
Like, so on it.
- [90:09]
Unknown
I know.
- [90:11]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah, it's.
- [90:12]
Unknown
I know. I think literally the Silica packet joke gets probably more laughs than it's like, part of a seven minute bit.
- [90:21]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah. And that's the big laugh. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. Of course, those old pros.
- [90:24]
Unknown
I know. I, like, just. Can you, like. I even said that just to brag.
- [90:28]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah.
- [90:29]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [90:29]
Sarah Sherman
David's bacon threw you a line through your joke.
- [90:32]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [90:32]
Sarah Sherman
Well, he's a big fan, isn't he?
- [90:33]
Unknown
Yes. I love him. God bless.
- [90:38]
Sarah Sherman
How do your parents feel about your work?
- [90:40]
Unknown
They're obsessed.
- [90:41]
Sarah Sherman
Oh, they are.
- [90:42]
Unknown
They wear my merch.
- [90:43]
Sarah Sherman
They do?
- [90:43]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [90:44]
Sarah Sherman
Oh, good. I was gonna give you that T shirt, but you don't want to give.
- [90:48]
Unknown
It to me anymore.
- [90:48]
Sarah Sherman
I have to go. I thought I pulled it down. I didn't. Like, I did these T shirts. I told you about it when we were texting that. I don't know where the idea came from or why I thought it would sell, but it's just so weird. And I thought, well, maybe you could wear one.
- [91:01]
Unknown
I'd easily wear one.
- [91:02]
Sarah Sherman
Maybe it just says nerd cock on it.
- [91:05]
Unknown
That sounds great. It sounds like a shirt I'd wear.
- [91:08]
Sarah Sherman
I thought it was such a breakthrough, like back in the day when all comedy was so hot. I thought, like, now the nerds have the swagger.
- [91:15]
Unknown
So I'm like.
- [91:15]
Sarah Sherman
I'm just like, just put nerd cock.
- [91:18]
Unknown
On shirts and it flew off the shelves.
- [91:20]
Marc Maron
No one bought them.
- [91:22]
Sarah Sherman
No one.
- [91:23]
Unknown
Cowards.
- [91:24]
Sarah Sherman
It doesn't matter.
- [91:25]
Unknown
Everyone's a coward.
- [91:26]
Marc Maron
Even I could.
- [91:26]
Sarah Sherman
I Was embarrassed to wear them because then I got to explain it. I'm like, I can't explain it. I don't even.
- [91:31]
Unknown
It's a vibe. You either get it.
- [91:32]
Sarah Sherman
You get it.
- [91:33]
Unknown
You don't. You know?
- [91:33]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah. I just. I couldn't get behind it.
- [91:35]
Marc Maron
I've made.
- [91:35]
Unknown
Oh, my God.
- [91:36]
Sarah Sherman
Many bad attempts.
- [91:37]
Unknown
I feel like I talked, like, selling merch so crazy a lot.
- [91:41]
Sarah Sherman
Isn't this what. That's what it's supposed to be.
- [91:43]
Unknown
I know. We talked about me when I was 10, like, for so long.
- [91:47]
Sarah Sherman
It's good, though.
- [91:48]
Unknown
Okay.
- [91:49]
Sarah Sherman
You feel all right?
- [91:50]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [91:50]
Sarah Sherman
You're not gonna fester?
- [91:51]
Unknown
No, I just, like, hope. I. I'm like. What did I say?
- [91:55]
Sarah Sherman
It was great.
- [91:55]
Unknown
Okay, great.
- [91:56]
Sarah Sherman
I enjoyed it. I'm turning it off now.
- [91:58]
Unknown
Goodbye.
- [92:04]
Marc Maron
See, that was amazing. How great was that to talk to her? Saturday Night Live is nominated for best scripted variety series at this year's Emmys. Hang out for a minute, folks. Hey, people. If you want more stuff from snl, full Marin subscribers can always listen to the Lorne Stories bonus episode. We posted it last September, and it's two hours of interviews with former SNL cast members talking about Lorne.
- [92:30]
Unknown
And then I did this sketch I used to do at the Groundlings. There was a song at the end of the sketch where it's about this gold man who panhandles. And basically it's with the. The guy dressed all in gold, and. And if you give a dollar or something, they'll do the robotic movement. And a. A robber comes and takes his.
- [92:51]
Marc Maron
I hate those guys. The guys that stand still.
- [92:53]
Sarah Sherman
Yeah. Yeah.
- [92:54]
Unknown
So. So a robber comes, takes all his money, and then he. He is very sad. And then somebody, a little kid, and the dad said, why is this gold man so sad? Well, I don't know, but if you give him a dollar, maybe he'll tell you. And if you give him $2, maybe he'll tell you in song. So the kid puts $2 in, and I sing this really uplifting song about, you know, the tough life of a gold man. And then at the end, it's. It's. It's. You find out whether it's. Cause I got a little secret. I sell cock for my face pain. I suck cock for my face paint. And then the rest of the song is just the words and face paint, basically. And it's just like. It's just like the. Probably 250 times saying the word. And I did that at SNL as the final thing. And then I walked out, and Lauren was right there and and he said, oh, thank you for coming. And I said, I'm. I'm sorry about all the cocks. I didn't know what else to say. I was just like. And then that was it. And then I found out I got the job.
- [94:10]
Marc Maron
I'm sorry about all the cocks.
- [94:12]
Unknown
Sorry about all the cocks.
- [94:13]
Marc Maron
To get that episode and new bonus episodes twice a week, subscribe to the full Marin Just go to the link in the episode description and go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF Plus. And a reminder before we go. This podcast is hosted by Acast. I'm a little clunky on the guitar, but that's okay.
- [94:32]
Sarah Sherman
Here.
- [96:35]
Unknown
Sa Sam Sa.
- [98:03]
Sarah Sherman
Boomer Lives Monkey and Lafonda Cat Angels everywhere.