Episode 1663 - Jackson Galaxy

Summary

WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1663 - Jackson Galaxy
Release Date: July 24, 2025

---

1. Marc Maron's Struggle with Anxiety and Cats [00:01 - 04:30]

Marc Maron opens the episode by candidly discussing his ongoing battle with anxiety, which he metaphorically links to his challenging relationships with his cats. He expresses frustration over his inability to create a peaceful home environment, describing his cats as manifestations of his lack of control over his life. Marc shares specific instances of his cats' aggressive behavior, particularly focusing on his cat Charlie's hostility towards Buster, another of his cats.

Notable Quote:
"I just want some peace in my house. And there's nothing but feline tension, you know."
— Marc Maron [03:15]

---

2. Introducing Jackson Galaxy [04:31 - 05:00]

Seeking solutions for his feline dilemmas, Marc introduces his guest, Jackson Galaxy, a renowned cat behaviorist known for hosting the Animal Planet show "My Cat from Hell" and authoring several books on cat behavior.

---

3. Jackson Galaxy’s Early Life and Musical Aspirations [05:01 - 27:50]

Jackson shares his tumultuous upbringing as the son of a Hungarian immigrant and Holocaust survivor. Growing up in New York's Upper West Side, Jackson delves into his passion for music during his teenage years. He recounts his journey through various bands, his struggles with substance abuse, and his eventual move to Boulder to pursue sobriety. Jackson reflects on his time in theater school at the University of Iowa, where he experimented with performance art before fully committing to cat behavior.

Notable Quote:
"Life is like that, right? And my problems as a guy with no kids and a bunch of cats is pretty low on the scale of things to really worry about."
— Marc Maron [10:30]

---

4. Transition to Cat Behaviorist [27:51 - 43:00]

After facing numerous challenges in his musical career, Jackson transitions to working at a cat shelter. Faced with the grim reality of euthanizing millions of cats and dogs annually, he becomes passionate about saving and rehabilitating feral cats. Jackson explains how he developed his approach to cat behavior, emphasizing the importance of trust and clicker training as effective tools for modifying feline behavior.

Notable Quote:
"I think all my cats represent a different part of me, you know."
— Marc Maron [02:50]

---

5. Marc’s Personal Cat Experiences [43:01 - 58:55]

Marc delves deeper into his personal experiences with his cats, detailing the history of each feline companion and the specific behavioral issues they've exhibited. He describes the aggressive interactions between Charlie and Buster, highlighting the complexity of managing multiple cats with distinct personalities. Marc discusses various interventions his vet recommended, including Prozac, which had adverse effects on Charlie, exacerbating his aggression.

Notable Quote:
"He just... in his brain and in his life, there's just so much going on. So much of it is overwhelming, so much of it is scary."
— Marc Maron [05:45]

---

6. Jackson's Techniques and Solutions [58:56 - 76:00]

Jackson offers insights and practical solutions to Marc's cat-related issues. He introduces the concept of "Separation Anxiety" in cats, explaining how it leads to destructive behaviors when the primary human caregiver is absent. Jackson suggests introducing a new kitten to divert Charlie's attention and reduce his territorial aggression. He also discusses the importance of maintaining a consistent routine and the potential benefits of harness training to provide Charlie with structured exploration opportunities without triggering his anxiety.

Notable Quote:
"Cats still hold this beauty and this reverence for me, because I will never have them figured out, and they refuse to be. And I think that's one of the most beautiful things on the planet."
— Jackson Galaxy [65:56]

---

7. Reflections on Human-Cat Relationships [76:01 - 78:12]

The conversation shifts to the broader relationship between humans and cats. Jackson emphasizes the unique bond that cats offer, highlighting their independence and the humility they instill in their owners. Both Marc and Jackson reflect on how cats challenge humans to adapt and understand behaviors that are inherently natural to felines but may be perplexing to their human companions.

Notable Quote:
"You are powerless over cats."
— Jackson Galaxy [65:56]

---

8. Conclusion and Final Thoughts [78:13 - End]

As the episode wraps up, Marc contemplates adopting a new kitten as a potential solution to his current predicament with Charlie. Jackson encourages him, reinforcing the idea that introducing a new, less dominant cat could help alleviate the tension within Marc's household. The duo ends on a light-hearted note, discussing the joys and challenges of cat ownership, and Marc hints at future episodes and upcoming projects.

Notable Quote:
"It's gonna be amazing. You didn't know you were in for this, huh?"
— Jackson Galaxy [75:05]

---

Key Takeaways:

• Understanding Cat Behavior: Both Marc and Jackson underscore the importance of comprehending the underlying causes of feline aggression and anxiety.

• Clicker Training: Jackson advocates for positive reinforcement techniques, such as clicker training, to reshape and improve cat behavior.

• Introducing New Cats: Introducing a new kitten may help distract dominant cats and reduce territorial disputes within multi-cat households.

• Routine and Structure: Maintaining a consistent daily routine can significantly alleviate separation anxiety in cats.

• Human-Cat Dynamics: The episode highlights the intricate and often challenging dynamics between humans and their feline companions, emphasizing patience and understanding.

---

Additional Resources:

• Jackson Galaxy’s YouTube Page: JacksonGalaxy.com
• WTF with Marc Maron Archives and Bonus Material: https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast

---

Note: This summary focuses solely on the main content of the episode, excluding advertisements, introductions, and outros to provide a comprehensive overview of the discussions between Marc Maron and Jackson Galaxy.

Transcript

[Marc Maron]

So it's happening, people. The Bad guys, and I'm one of them. Get ready for the Bad Guys 2 from DreamWorks Animation. I love being Mr. Snake. It's one of the more fun jobs I've had in show business. I like working with Craig Robinson, Sam Rockwell, Awkwafina, Anthony Ramos, Natasha Leone on this one, everybody. It's just. It's a blast. Especially when we can all get into the same room and kind of work it out together. Natasha plays my love interest in this one. I tell you, it is kind of an exciting thing to have parents who know me from me say that their kid loves Mr. Snake. I'm crossing generations with my Snake voice. Yeah. Get tickets now for The Bad Guys 2. In theaters August 1st. Lock the gate. All right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the Buddies? What the Nicks? What's happening? I'm Marc Maron. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. How. How are you? Are you okay? Is everything all right? I. I've been talking about this anxiety, and just. I. I don't know. I don't know what to tell you anymore. You know, it just manifests in. In weird ways. But God knows, my cats have been part of my life for a long time. Different sets of cats, and I just can never quite manage to relax around these goddamn cats. And I assume that it's just a projection of my larger inability to feel like I have any sort of control over the world, over my life, over anything else. I don't know. I just get very. I just wanted to. Why can't I just have normal, relaxing cats ever? So today I talked to Jackson Galaxy, you know, out of need more. More than anything else. All right. He's a cat behaviorist. He was the host of the Animal Planet show My Cat from Hell and is the author of several books on cats, and I've been hearing about him for years. You know, people are like, you got to talk to Jackson. You gotta talk to Jackson. He'll. He'll. He'll help you out, you know, I want a fucking miracle, man. Some people are getting on me saying that, you know, I can't, you know, rehouse Charles, Charlie Beans, Roscoe, that. You know, it's my responsibilities, my kid. Someone wrote, he's not. He's not your wife. He's a kid. But, like, I just. I'm starting to feel like he would be happier in a single cat home with a lot of people. He just likes people. Yeah, I know he likes me. He's very Attached to me, but he doesn't give a fuck about the other cats. And, you know, it's getting violent over here. And I'm out in the world doing all this press and doing all this stuff. Bad Guys is opening in August 1st, and my special comes out August 1st. They just picked up Stick for another season. And I'm like, I. I'm. I'm at the edge of a fucking nervous breakdown over here. The show. This show is ending. A lot of changes. I'm sure that's having an effect. I'm sure that, you know, I'm processing that or not at a, you know, a fairly deep level. But I. I just want some peace in my house. And there's nothing but tension. There's nothing but feline tension, you know. And Charlie is violent towards Buster. Like, you know, I. I don't know that cats kill each other, but they're both beat up pretty bad. Charlie's got like a, you know, a gouge, a teeth gouge, you know, on his arm. And I feel little scabs on both of them. And I just want peace in the house, man. I'm just. I'm on edge. And I know, like, people are like, dude, they're just cats. You know, kids, like, they're just cats. You know, it'll resolve itself. It's not, you know, I gotta. I guess I gotta get more human contact. I don't know. But, like, in my brain and in my life, there's just so much going on. So much of it is overwhelming, so much of it is scary. And you just want the cats to be there. I guess if I wanted something to love me unconditionally, I should have got dogs, but they're even more responsibility. I just can't figure out how to ease this situation. You want it to ease with time. And it's just. I think all my cats represent a different part of me, you know, that again, anthropomorphizing, maybe projecting, I don't know. But I think, you know, Buster is a pretty sensitive guy. You know, kind of avoidant, but sensitive. And, you know, wants love. And Sam is kind of a doof, you know, he doesn't, you know, quite know how to receive the love. And I'm not sure he wants it, but occasionally he does. And he's awkward. And Charlie just. He loves people. Anybody. Anybody walks into the house, he loves them. But when I go away, it's just all hits the fan, you know, he's not all over the place. But I get back and, you know, they get into these fights where, you know, Buster is screaming and pissing and shitting, and it's like a nightmare. And I don't know if you people know my history with cats. I imagine some of you do. First cat I had was Butch. Female cat, Butchie. That was given to me by my second wife before we were married. And I love that kitten. And I moved to LA with that kitten. I drove that kitten in a car with a plant that it liked to sleep on. I had a potted plant in the back because he liked to sleep on it. Like she gives a shit. And we're staying in hotel rooms and we're going through all that anxiety of driving a cat across country with a truck that broke down. And Pennsylvania, an hour and a half outside of New York. Oh, God. And we got the cat here, and we thought we should get another cat for Butch. And so we went to this shelter and there were all these sad old cats at the shelter. And I picked this one orange cat that seemed out of its mind that already had the name Boomer. And I realize now, you know, in retrospect, having dealt with ferals, that it was just a feral that ended up at a shelter. So very difficult to socialize. And he just. He became a problem. He pissed all over everything when I moved into the house. And eventually became an outdoor cat. And eventually fucking disappeared, of course. Very sad. When I think about this, it's all sad. And then there were the alley. The Alley Cats of Astoria. Saved a feral litter. Meanie, hissy monkey, LaFonda. The mom got them all fixed, had them all in the house. They destroyed the house somehow. Monkey and La Fonda made the cut. I gave away the other one, the other one ran away. I lived with them for years, and they were half feral. But I remember when Buster came in. When Buster showed up on the doorstep, few months old, maybe two months, freaked out. I think he was a kitten that got away. I don't think it was a complete feral, but there was a period there when Monkey was ailing, you know, and LaFonda was. LaFonda was a mean, crazy, unpredictable cat, but I loved her. But Monkey was not doing well. And Buster as a. Like, at the same age, Charlie would just try to beat the shit out of him. So I guess it's a thing, but it's very upsetting. Then there was Moxie, who ended up with my ex wife, who she brought into the fold. Very smart cat, that Moxie. I don't know what happened to Moxie. I think Moxie ended up In Seattle. But, you know, Monkey and La Fonda, you know, ran their course, got kidney failure, and I had to put them down. And then I had just Buster, and it was just me and Buster for a while, and that was great. And then kid knew a woman that she worked with who's like, there was a litter at the grandparents or whatever. And then I end up with stupid Sammy, who was a cute kitten, and now he's still pretty good cat. He's got his own vibe. And then somehow or another, some feral mother had a bunch of kittens next door over here and was moving them around. And Charlie was under the steps, like, two, three weeks old. And I thought, like, I can change that cat's life, and. And now I have, and he's a spoiled little. But I love him. He's a good guy when he's a good guy. But I just, you know, you can't. There's no way to break up a cat fight. And it's just a goddamn nightmare if they're focused, if Charlie's locked in on Buster, and I scare them apart, and then he'll just go chase him down again. It's just too much, man. And on top of that, you know, my brain is shredding. Like, I'm. I'm really not in a great place mentally or emotionally for a lot of reasons that are probably, you know, valid, but nothing I'm unable to compartmentalize. And all this shit's raining down on me all at once, and it's like it's crushing me. I've been here before. I've been through a lot of. You all have been through this with me, but God damn it, it's just a. It's just a drag. But I guess life is like that, right? And my. My problems as a guy with no kids and a bunch of cats is pretty low on the scale of things to really worry about. But it all. You know, it all adds up. Anyway, this is where I'm at today. Where are you at? I'm all right. I'm spiritually sound. I am. What am I even saying? What am I even saying? My brain is on fire. Gotta play music later. Been rehearsing. That's been a pretty good thing. You know, Doing new things when you get to a certain age is a little daunting, you know, And I've been playing guitar a long time and playing with people on and off for the past few years, but never feeling the confidence, Always choking on stage. And, you know, I just got to remember, dude, you got to Put your hours in. So I'm working with a new group of musicians this time and we're actually rehearsing and we rehearsed last night for a few hours and it felt pretty good just to do that process, but it's just so kind of scary to embark on a creative thing that, like, look, I play by myself and it's fine and I'm okay, but, you know, just to really do it and put the songs together and, and work them and, you know, make decisions around them and trying to get my voice so, you know, I, I can sing, you know, from my stomach with a certain amount of confidence. It's just, you know, you know, some people it's just like, well, that sounds like a fun thing to do. You know, it's not. I want it to be fun, but it's not going to be fun until I feel confident doing it. You know, it's the same thing when people tell me to, you know, play golf. I mean, come on. I mean, how much do you have to suck before you even get kind of good? So at this age, you got to kind of gauge the amount of time, if it's even possible to get to a place where it's fun because you're good enough at it. I'm at odds with myself and it happens and I guess it'll pass, but it's been a few weeks, you know, where I'm just consumed with this. I can't get out from under the, the weight of the anxiety and the dread. And I was okay for a while. But I also realized today that another, another thing is, is like, outside of the podcast ending. Yeah, I just, I just dumped an hour, 10 minute special. I just been working on that. I've been working on that for years, year and a half. And this is that feeling, you know, you're at, you're at square one with a new hour and I never know where it's going to come from. And, and I'm just sort of like, is that gonna happen? You know, there's just that party of, that's like, let's just hang it up. Just stop. It usually comes and I'm kind of, you know, I'm, I'm doing funny stuff. I'm getting up there and I'll let you know how it goes. I'm okay, man. I'm okay. And hopefully, you know, this talk with Jackson will, will level me off and maybe you can listen to it. Maybe you need these kind, this kind of help. I don't know. But before I, I bring him on. I'll be at the 92nd Street Y in New York City in conversation with Jim Gaffigan on Thursday, July 31. That's for the premiere. We're going to be premiering a little a day early the. The. The special. So we'll watch the special and then Jim's gonna talk to me. That'll be nice to see Jim. You can go to wtfpod.com tour for links to tickets. And then August 1st is a, is a big day. That's when my special Marc Maron Panicked premieres on hbo, streaming on HBO Max. And that's also the release date for the bad guys 2. Also, the season finale of Stick is now streaming on Apple tv. Does it, did that just make you anxious, all that stuff? I mean, the work is done still. Then there's the wave of anxiety from that. The special dropping. All right, look, I'm not gonna drag you guys down. I'll be all right. And it was fun talking to Jackson Galaxy. You can check out his YouTube page and JackSongAlaxy.com and this is me having a chat with the cat daddy. Hey, folks, I'm not the kind of person to chase trends, especially with clothing. I, I know what I like and I want stuff that fits right, feels good, and actually lasts. That's why we're sponsored by Quince. Quince has the kind of stuff you'll actually wear on repeat. Breathable flowknit polos, crisp cotton shirts, and comfortable lightweight pants that work for both weekend hangs and dressed up dinners. The best part, everything with Quints is half the cost of similar brands. By working directly with top artisans and cutting out the middlemen, Quint's gives you luxury pieces without the markups. And if you want a tip, get the European linen relaxed shirts. I got a short sleeve one that I'm wearing for the summer, but I also have the long sleeve option, so I'm hanging on to one of those for when it cools off. Stick to the staples that last with elevated essentials from quince. Go to quince.com wtf for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U I N C E.com wtf to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com wtf so, yeah, so it's, I guess it's high time we met.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah, man, you're on those two.

[Marc Maron]

What are you on?

[Jackson Galaxy]

I'm on any. I'm. I do a lot of nicotine.

[Marc Maron]

Me too. Tons of it.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Oh, yeah. Oh, you got the Zyn. I've got breakers.

[Marc Maron]

What are the breakers?

[Jackson Galaxy]

Oh, that little dot.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah. I have. What, milligram.

[Jackson Galaxy]

As far up as it goes. These are eight.

[Marc Maron]

You do eight breakers?

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah. Is that a lot?

[Marc Maron]

Well, look, man, I've been a nicotine junkie my whole life and on and off. But, you know, mostly on. But I haven't smoked cigarettes in years. But, you know, these. I was on real snus for a while from Sweden with the tobacco. But these things seem to be the best thing.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And how much of that?

[Marc Maron]

Just three.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Wow.

[Marc Maron]

I don't know why. I don't know if I'm. I've become, you know, like, weak.

[Jackson Galaxy]

I was going to say, you want to see who's the worst addict in this room? Like, so we got that and then we got the gum.

[Marc Maron]

I've tried that, but that does nothing. How many milligrams do that?

[Jackson Galaxy]

That's six.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, you got 6 milligrams gum.

[Jackson Galaxy]

No, no, I can't. I only get the highest. And so this is eight. I'll probably put a piece of gum in my mouth. Except I'm talking. I have eight. I like you vape, too. I do.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, so you're hardcore.

[Jackson Galaxy]

But I am so hardcore.

[Marc Maron]

I just find. Well, I mean, I think, you know, we're both sober, so. Right. So that, you know, you're gonna need something.

[Jackson Galaxy]

That's what I'm saying. No, you know what? You know, in the rooms. Twenty years on and off. And the mantras, don't fuck with my nicotine or my caffeine, and we'll get along just fine. You know, because I've given up everything else.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. You know, I've talked about it before with people that they don't seem to understand. Who was I talking to last night? I mean, I'm coming up on. Wow. Next month there'll be 26 in a row.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Fucking birthday.

[Marc Maron]

It's crazy, dude.

[Jackson Galaxy]

That's amazing. That's crazy.

[Marc Maron]

You're just. I think you're just a little younger than me. So, you know, we were at it.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Am I younger than you?

[Marc Maron]

I'm 61.

[Jackson Galaxy]

I'm 59.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I'll be 62 in September.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Right on.

[Marc Maron]

But the nicotine thing, I'm just sort of surprised because it doesn't. I don't know what it does for you, but it's an interesting drug. Cause it can go either way. Some people get jack, some people get dopey. Like, if I do a six, you know, I gotta sit down.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Oh, really?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Oh, it doesn't touch me. I mean, really?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

No.

[Marc Maron]

It's so funny. Cause my brain's so fucked up. Cause now I'm thinking, like, I gotta get up there.

[Jackson Galaxy]

That's what we're doing. Listen, if you would have come, said like, I got this from Sweden. It's a 24. I'd be like, I'm in.

[Marc Maron]

Well, dude, I got some shit upstairs that I got from Kreischer and he got it from who?

[Jackson Galaxy]

From.

[Marc Maron]

What's that? Who makes the Breakers?

[Jackson Galaxy]

Lucy.

[Marc Maron]

He got it from Lucy. I've got a giant tin of about 500 of those.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Really?

[Marc Maron]

And I'm going to give them to you.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Thank you. I'll take it. Whatever. I'll take anything. And now, you know, everybody around me is. You know the thing about all these years about harm reduction?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And you know to yourself. I would say it out loud normally. The times just came out. Something the other day about heavy metals being in vapes.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, really? Yeah. I never did the vapes. I don't want to smoke things. I'll smoke a cigar now and again. And I've got strung out on those before.

[Jackson Galaxy]

I can't. Look, I started smoking when I was, what, 13, 14?

[Marc Maron]

Me?

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah. Why?

[Marc Maron]

Keith Richards.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Most likely.

[Marc Maron]

For me, it was Keith Richards most likely.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Actually, I was thinking back, I was like, was it him? You could take in your pick at that point. Yeah. I mean, look, I was at 13 now because I thought I was gonna be a rock star.

[Marc Maron]

Of course.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Of course.

[Marc Maron]

So what. What, Where'd you grow up?

[Jackson Galaxy]

New York. New York, Right?

[Marc Maron]

In the city.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah. I'm from Upper West Sider, so that counts.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. So, like, what. What was. What was the family situation? Did your dad grow up there? How do you end up in New York?

[Jackson Galaxy]

My dad was a Hungarian immigrant. Really? I'm first generation. Yeah. He. He escaped during the very brief revolution and. Holocaust survivor.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Jackson Galaxy]

And came to New York.

[Marc Maron]

You live. You live with the Holocaust survivor thing? I mean, was he in a camp?

[Jackson Galaxy]

He was not in a. He was in a work.

[Unknown]

A work camp.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And he had the worst of both worlds because he had the Nazis then liberated. Then he got to be in a Russian camp. Really. Then escaped to Austria and made his way here.

[Marc Maron]

So he's. Was he older when he had you?

[Jackson Galaxy]

He. My mom was really young. My mom was like, 19, 20. And then my dad was like, 29, 30.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, really? Yeah. So he was a kid during the Holocaust.

[Jackson Galaxy]

He was. And you know, one of the craziest things is when. When someone starts to Bring forward memories that they've been like, I can't do this.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, sure.

[Jackson Galaxy]

He was in his 80s.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Coming up with shit that would blow your head. It was really awful.

[Marc Maron]

Was he a fully cognizant in his 80s or was it coming out in fragrance?

[Jackson Galaxy]

He was still. I mean, he was crazy Hungarian.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And he just. He was a yeller. And he was. And he was still. He was right there with it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, that was great.

[Jackson Galaxy]

But he. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Things about the childhood came up.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah, man. Like, one quick thing, he like. So they grew up in, you know, kind of the projects in Budapest. And so there were all the apartment building. You have the common area. And there was fighting happening.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

There in the middle of this building development.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And they would. There was a well in the middle of the courtyard, so that's where everybody needed to get water. But there was fighting happening. They would send kids like him out.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

With a bucket.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Because they assumed that they wouldn't shoot the kids.

[Marc Maron]

Right. But did they shoot the kids?

[Jackson Galaxy]

They didn't shoot that kid. Yeah, he made it. But I mean, stories like that, just crazy, crazy stories.

[Marc Maron]

And then, you know, you're just an American kid going like, I'm going to go down the Village.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah, totally. I mean, I was. I actually. Because I was a big kid.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

So by the time I was like 14. Oh six feet.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And so I was playing clubs in, like the West Village and I played CVs when I was like, 16 because nobody was carding me.

[Marc Maron]

And what, What. What band were you in at 16?

[Jackson Galaxy]

I was in my own thing. I was, you know, I started out as, like. Because what. I was this, like, mid-70s. I was like, total singer songwriter dude.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Then I discovered, you know, when the actual rock and roll thing happened, then I buy a Strat.

[Marc Maron]

And so you were it. So it was the mid-70s, so. So CB's was kind of like, you know, New York punk was, like, happening.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah. And by the time I got in there, so that was. That would have been 81.

[Marc Maron]

So it was a little behind it.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah. But it was still. I mean, the scene was really great back then, but we got caught up in this thing where there was, you know, the pay to play thing where they would tell you to go. And the musicians union came down on us one time, screaming at us in the street about how we're, like ruining New York music. Because, like, we were going in there because they would do that thing where you go in, if you bring in, you know, 200 people.

[Marc Maron]

Sure.

[Jackson Galaxy]

You'll get a real gig that pays you money.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

So we played them all. I mean, I played. What was that one? Trax was the one that, like. Trax was around for a long time.

[Marc Maron]

I remember Brownies.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Brownies.

[Marc Maron]

That was right on Avenue A. I think it might have been later. You might have been done with it and gone.

[Jackson Galaxy]

That was enough for West Virginia. We were scared of the Lower east side, really.

[Marc Maron]

But that's where it was all happening.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah. Yeah. Now, by the time I was in college then, you know, it was funny. I can remember the day I discovered Sonic Youth and I was like, oh, well, now I know how to play guitar.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, right. So that's what I was missing.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Four strings and one note.

[Marc Maron]

Sure. And you invent your own tuning.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Great.

[Marc Maron]

But when you were a kid, it was mostly like just you and a guitar.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And just solo.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yep. And then I hooked up with another guitar player in. In high school who.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

He actually became a pretty well known jazz guitar player, which is when I knew that I would never be a good guitar player.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. But I. But I struggle with that. What does good mean? Good means a virtuoso.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

I mean, like three West Montgomery kind of shit.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. But, I mean, were you trying to do that?

[Jackson Galaxy]

I was trying to figure myself out at that point. But the thing. What it did was it pushed me into being a really good lyricist and inventing tunings.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And because. Yeah. I mean, before Sonic Youth, it was Joni Mitchell. Joni Mitchell's for you. Tunings. Right. No, but I'm saying in terms of.

[Marc Maron]

Tuning gap there for everyone else, but.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah, distortion. But also, I mean, she led the way with, like, crazy tuning.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I don't fuck with them too much.

[Unknown]

I.

[Marc Maron]

You know, I've got a key. I got that Les Paul Jr. Tuned to open G and the top strings off to do the Keith thing.

[Jackson Galaxy]

The key thing. Yeah, But.

[Marc Maron]

But I never. You know. I don't know, man.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I've been playing my whole life and I never really played with people, so I kind of kept it a hobby. But now I've been trying to learn how to play with people and it's. It's. Well, no, it's okay. But like, I'm not disciplined. And the idea of repetition, like, I like things like, happen now, you know, it's okay if it's sloppy, man. We just got to own it. But, like, I'm working with some real kind of, like. Well, we got to do it, like, on the record in terms of the structure. And I'm like, we do.

[Unknown]

I think.

[Jackson Galaxy]

I mean, are they like, real musicians or are they.

[Marc Maron]

Well, they're rock musicians. And I've done. I've done.

[Jackson Galaxy]

I've been supposed to. Real musicians.

[Marc Maron]

Well. Well, I mean, there are people that do the work, you know, like. And when you're. I'm good enough, but I'm not. I don't play with people all the time, but I know they're behind me. They'll carry you.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know, if you're messy. But I kind of want to. Now that I'm kind of easing out of this, I'd like to spend more time playing music. But it's. I don't like to. Like, my craft is comedy, and my craft ultimately evolved as a conversationalist. But music has always been my hobby. And once you got to put the hours into, you know, to be proficient.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know, in. In a real way.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

At this age, it's sort of like, ah, it's not. It's no fun.

[Jackson Galaxy]

I hear you. And I. And I. For me, it was really weird because I remember my dad is one who said it. I was trying to pull, like, the. The top of my show.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Would say I'm Jackson Galaxy.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

I think it was like, musician by night, cat behaviors by day or whatever. The thing is, I was.

[Marc Maron]

When was this?

[Jackson Galaxy]

That's the top of every show. Said that way back.

[Marc Maron]

You were cat guy.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Oh, no, I mean, way back. No, I mean, like, when the show started, which was.

[Marc Maron]

Okay, so you were. You were. You were out. Once you became sort of popular as the cat guy, you're like, I'm gonna do some music too.

[Jackson Galaxy]

No, I was. I was trying to make it as a musician before that, and my dad was just like, listen, you're gonna have to make a choice at some point. You're either doing one of these things or the other. And somehow that got into my head and I didn't write another song after the show started. And so now I'm still looking at. I'm doing the same thing you're doing. I'm looking at my guitars.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

It's haunting me, you know.

[Marc Maron]

Well, see, because I didn't have the dream. They don't haunt me.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Oh, that's good.

[Marc Maron]

You know, I never. I never aspired to be a pro musician. You were all.

[Jackson Galaxy]

All in from. From high school, from time. I was nine years old. I picked up a guitar at nine years old. I was like, this is who I am.

[Marc Maron]

So when does it start? Like. So you're playing out, though. Are you're making a living? Did you cut some demos? Did you make a record?

[Jackson Galaxy]

I. You know, the great thing is, thank God it was all before, like, band camp and all that shit. Because I don't want that music out there. Because, I mean, it was good. It's just at this point, kind of dated and whatever. But yeah, no, I. I was living in Boulder for.

[Marc Maron]

Wait a minute. So how do you get from New York to Boulder?

[Jackson Galaxy]

Oh, it's. So I went to.

[Marc Maron]

When did you hit the wall? What's that story?

[Jackson Galaxy]

I went from. I went. It's like the slow 80 crawl. So I went from New York, went to college in Ohio.

[Marc Maron]

Ohio?

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah, I went to Overland College.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, that's kind of a groovy school, right?

[Jackson Galaxy]

Was totally groovy. And I was not as rich. And then we went from that. I went to grad school at University of Iowa.

[Marc Maron]

That's fancy. For what?

[Jackson Galaxy]

Theater.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yep. Go figure. I'm telling you.

[Marc Maron]

So what'd your old man do?

[Jackson Galaxy]

I mean, he did a lot of things that once the Sopranos came out, I was like, oh, when. You know that, like, every birthday present you ever had fell off the back of a truck.

[Marc Maron]

Like, oh, he's a connected guy.

[Jackson Galaxy]

He became that way. I mean, he didn't say speak any English when he first got here, but he wound up running a cookie factory. Like, he owned a cookie factory for the Russians. I don't know who the hell for, but I'm telling you, he didn't know how to bake a cookie to save his life, you know, And.

[Marc Maron]

But was it a legit cookie factory?

[Jackson Galaxy]

It was. He actually, like, he provided all the cookies for, like, all those supermarkets up and down the East Coast.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Jackson Galaxy]

I don't know how it happened. All I know is that he did what? They had that saying about Hungarians that they're like, the only people who can get into a revolving door behind you and come out ahead of you.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, interesting.

[Jackson Galaxy]

That's him. But.

[Marc Maron]

So you guys did all right.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah, I mean, it depended because he was a cash guy. Like, I think he paid for my college with cash. I'm not even kidding. And then some years we didn't know, but. So from. I went to Iowa, graduated there.

[Marc Maron]

But the theater dream. So you're doing music as a kid. When do drugs get happen?

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yes. I mean, I would. I mean, I was. I would say it was not until I was like 15 that I was starting to get high. Yeah, but. And drinking.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

But, you know, and I kept it. Whatever the word is.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Until Iowa was when I started to spin out a little bit.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And then by the time I got to Boulder, which was after that, then all bets were off.

[Marc Maron]

So what'd you earn in theater school? You did two years.

[Jackson Galaxy]

How not to wait tables? I. I didn't. I had no theater dreams.

[Marc Maron]

But you went to graduate theater school.

[Jackson Galaxy]

That's because, like, honest. This is how it happened. Like, I. I started in theater because I was writing music for theater.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And that was fun.

[Marc Maron]

So musical kind of like for music?

[Jackson Galaxy]

No, no, no. Like, scoring them.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, interesting. Okay.

[Jackson Galaxy]

I hate musicals. And then. So I did that, and then one day, somebody sees me walking across the stage and big. Whatever.

[Marc Maron]

And.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah, they grabbed me, and I started doing that. And then.

[Marc Maron]

What? Acting?

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah. And then there came this moment where I, you know, some theater teacher, New York, and in Overland was like, you got what it takes. We'll prep, you know, auditions so that you can get into grad school. And I didn't get in anywhere. But, like, two weeks before the school year started, a director friend of mine calls me. She's like, I'm in Iowa City right now. Which, by the way, I didn't even know there was one.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And I was like. And she said, we can get. If. Come here and audition and get in. Free ride and, you know, you're a TA and whatever.

[Marc Maron]

But they needed people in the program.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah, totally. And so I got in and spent the next three years in Iowa.

[Marc Maron]

They got a pretty heady, you know, you know, highbrow writers program.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah, man. And their playwriting program was amazing. Yeah, that's all actors are in that place. It's just.

[Marc Maron]

We're just doing the plays of the guys.

[Jackson Galaxy]

You might as well be keys on a typewriter. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, right, right, right. So you were doing a lot of workshopping with.

[Jackson Galaxy]

For.

[Marc Maron]

For new playwrights.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And then I was. But I was a huge rebel. I decided I wanted to be a performance artist at that point, and we broke away. We, like, there's three of us. We, like, broke away from the program and made terribly subversive. Terrible art.

[Marc Maron]

And in Iowa.

[Jackson Galaxy]

In Iowa.

[Marc Maron]

You didn't take it back to New York or anything?

[Jackson Galaxy]

I wanted to, like. I mean, my. My. You know, my dream was to be, you know, part of, like, the whole scene with, like, Lecomte and Willem Dafoe.

[Marc Maron]

The mama or at the Worcester Group or something.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah, the Worcester Group. Man, those guys were, you know, seeing those guys live.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Blew my head apart.

[Marc Maron]

Was that guy. The guy that had the theater on the. On St. Mark's Foreman, you know, he did all that crazy.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

And they were all kind of very rapid. There's a lot of things going on.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Name. It was like Richard Foreman. It was.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I think it was Richard Foreman.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Was it Richard?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Those guys were crazy.

[Marc Maron]

Crazy.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And I saw Annie Sprinkle when she was doing a lot of performance art. And she would, like, walk around. I saw her, too.

[Marc Maron]

It's great. When she'd invite the audience to view her. Her cervix, speculum. She just.

[Jackson Galaxy]

I saw Annie Sprinkle. Cervix.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. She just sit there splayed open at the edge of the stage after the show.

[Jackson Galaxy]

She was brilliant.

[Marc Maron]

I loved her.

[Jackson Galaxy]

She was brilliant.

[Marc Maron]

It was great.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And that whole scene was just the most, like, primal form of expression.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And actually, when you think about it, it actually did inform the rest of this. Whether it was performance in music or whether it was performance art or the theater, whatever. You learn the human condition.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Inside and out. And then applying that to animals for me was pretty easy.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah. It's just the same thing. You're just.

[Marc Maron]

When you sort of like. So after you. You. You graduate in Iowa, when do you, like, you know, hit the wall and stop using.

[Jackson Galaxy]

I got sober in Boulder.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So you go from Iowa to Boulder for what? Why Boulder?

[Jackson Galaxy]

Well, because Boulder, at that point actually had a halfway decent music scene.

[Marc Maron]

Sure.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And the Fox theaters in Boulder, which is an amazing.

[Marc Maron]

I've played that place. I like it.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

God, it's amazing.

[Marc Maron]

It's nice, right size.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And it's also. I don't know if you know this. The guy who designed the sound system there, the same guy who did the. The Dead's Wall of Sound. So the whole stage is lined with subwoofers. And it's truly orgasmic when, like, you're playing on that stage, you don't even care about the audience. It sounds so good.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, I feel. Did I play the Fox in Boulder or is it. Is there a Boulder theater?

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah, Boulder theater, too. Beautiful old place.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah. There's that place.

[Marc Maron]

I feel like that's where I usually play. Is that smaller?

[Unknown]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

But it's. I mean, honestly, like, the scene there was great. And between that, I was thinking there. Chicago or Austin and. And Boulders, Boulder.

[Marc Maron]

And you're in, you know, you're in, like, mountains. It's pretty.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Look, I went there sight unseen.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

I had never seen it.

[Marc Maron]

Were you running?

[Jackson Galaxy]

I. Yes, I was. I was. And I. And I knew that I could probably get away with whatever there.

[Marc Maron]

Were your parents, like, concerned?

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Is your mom still around?

[Jackson Galaxy]

No, she lost her 16, but. No, my mom, who I was very close to my mom and she was my, my, like, she was my world. And she was like, you know when, you know, you hit bottom, when your mom, and we're talking Upper west side Jewish mother flies to Boulder to sit you down and cut you off.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

That's when you know that. And I still went on for another year after that.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

You know, I mean, it was. It's as good a place as anywhere to have a breakdown and to get sober, you know.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, for sure. Well, that's. Well, that's interesting. So they're, so, they're concerned. How Jewish did you grow up?

[Jackson Galaxy]

Oh, you know, like in New York at least, we call them submarine Jews, where like, you come up for Hanukkah, come back down again. Yeah, totally fast if you want to. But yeah, yeah, that was it. But I still went to like a Jewish day school. I went to bar mitzvah. Yeah, Yeah. I was just telling the story the other day, me and my brother, my brother's four years younger. And at one point, I don't know.

[Marc Maron]

I was like, just like two of you.

[Unknown]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And maybe I was 10.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And he was six at the time. And we had a serious discussion about it. We'd be like, okay, we know what we're going to say. We go into our parents room, they're laying in bed, and we're like, listen, mom, dad, we have to tell you something. We don't believe in God. And my mom doesn't even skip a beat. She goes, that's fine. You're still getting bar mitzvah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, of course.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And that's, that's, that's New York, man. Yeah. So we went through all that and it was. I so glad that I grew up there.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah. It's like, you know, everything's there. I envied people because, you know, my family's Jews from Jersey and we ended up in New Mexico, but I had. All my relatives were in Jersey. So like when I was 14, I'd spend a month at my grandma's, take the bus into port Authority at 14 just to wander around. And my mom was very much into art and she was an artist. So anytime there was big openings at MoMA, we'd go. So I always felt very connected to it. But you do have a resilience when you grow up there. I think that to grow up with that much diversity and that many people around and on top of you, and there's a kind of beautiful sort of shell you create.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And, you know, the thing is, you're a part of a shell. And that's the thing. It's so weird about New York is that we communicate by yelling. We can be gruff as hell.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And yet you feel protected. You're walking down the street.

[Marc Maron]

You don't feel that.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Never.

[Marc Maron]

And, like, it's a. I've always noticed that about New York, and I've said it before, that, like, if something's going down, someone's gonna step up and go, what's up? What's going on?

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah. Yeah. Right.

[Marc Maron]

That guy's in trouble. Does anyone know how to help this guy?

[Jackson Galaxy]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

And it. It's dealt with.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah. And. And they could be saying, like, what. What was the thing? Someone said that, like, the difference between, like, New Yorkers and Angelinos is, like, the difference between nice and kind. Like, you know, here, if, like, you fall in the street, somebody stops their car, are you okay? Then they keep driving. And in New York, they pick you up while they're calling you, you know, a klutz and an.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, right, right. But they're. They make, you know, people step up and they're, you know, in New York. And I always, always, like, appreciated that, and I never felt safer.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

In anywhere else in New York, I mean, because there's always someone right there and.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And you. Doesn't I. My. My most favorite thing is just to get lost in New York.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Just walk. You don't know where you're going. And, you know, it was weird. Last time I was home, I had one of those moments. I was having a weird moment in my life, and I just walked, and I wound up, you know, near the Trade center area. And I hadn't.

[Marc Maron]

That you hadn't seen the memorial.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Hadn't seen the memorial. And I hadn't seen any of the development.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

All of the houses and stupid shops and whatever. It's just the whole thing is unrecognizable. If you would have dropped me there, I never would have known I was in New York.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

That memorial's pretty heavy. I think they did a good job with that.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Totally.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, it's like. It's kind of devastating. It's powerful. And the new Whitney. Stunning.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Over on the water. It's great.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And all those, like, little. Have you seen. Oh, God. What was the name of the something island? The. Looks like a Dr. Seuss Island. Coming.

[Marc Maron]

Roosevelt Island.

[Jackson Galaxy]

No, no, no.

[Marc Maron]

That's on the other side.

[Jackson Galaxy]

That's the last thing from Dr. Seuss. No, it's. It's off the west side, and it's a. It's called something island. And it looks.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, it's like an art piece. Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Amazing. Such a great place. I. Look, if I could have afforded it, I would. Gone back and lived there, but.

[Marc Maron]

So you get to Boulder, and now in order to get sober, as we know, if you follow the rules, you have to put that first above anything else. Now, was the move to Boulder sort of like a bottom, and you're like, I've hit the wall.

[Jackson Galaxy]

No. I mean, I wasn't even aware that I was in a. Until to be completely transparent. Like, I went to my first meeting because I was trying to get laid, and she was like, okay, yeah, but I just want you to come to a meeting to see how I live.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And I went. And then, you know, they had the check boxes in the back with it. Like the pamphlet.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Am I an alcoholic?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And every single one of them, except I hadn't gone to jail. And that was it. And then you start to realize that you got a problem. So it wasn't. I was in.

[Marc Maron]

Did that person help you get sober?

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yes and no. I mean, she did, but she also was kind of crazy, so. I mean, because a woman got me sober. I mean, it's.

[Marc Maron]

It was because I wanted her.

[Jackson Galaxy]

There you go. Oh, we share that story. That's cool.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And she brought me in, and I held on. You know, I was married, unhappy, left my wife, latched on to her.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And burned it down. You know, because you're not capable of anything.

[Jackson Galaxy]

I mean, and my first sponsor was like, you can't make her your higher power. That's. That. That's not who your higher power is.

[Marc Maron]

Or just use them to, you know. You know, I understand that idea, but I don't know that I understood the notion of a higher power. I just. You know, you just lean on them too much, then all of a sudden, your codependency comes out, and you just exhaust them with your fucking insanity.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And then he really gets over, you.

[Marc Maron]

Know, I mean, the codependency and, you know, you know, adult child business, it's like, those are the heavy ones, you.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Know, I'm still working through that. I mean, I'm almost 60 years old.

[Marc Maron]

I. It's. I. I'm. I fucked up, dude.

[Jackson Galaxy]

I mean. But I think that there's something to be said about saying that, you know, you're this overgrown child or whatever. I'm okay with that.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

It sometimes excludes you from making grown up decisions, which I am learning.

[Marc Maron]

But I'm a childless man. I'm 61, you know, and you know, I've been married twice and that, and still no kids. And like, you know, there's definitely something not, not resolved or fixed.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Right, right.

[Marc Maron]

But you know, I, you just, it just, I think it becomes the, the effort is like, you know, try not to be a toxic and don't hurt other people.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Totally.

[Marc Maron]

You know, control yourself, you know, learn. I mean, I, as I get older and you know, with the program and stuff and whatever I learned in it, like, I don't go a lot, but it definitely fixed my brain in a lot of ways.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah, totally. And same thing. I mean, I don't, I have periods where I go, I, I need. Program. Yeah, program before something happens.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

I mean, that's the thing is you've made it 26 years.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

I mean, I, the, I seem to break at 10 years. Every time I have 10 years, I break.

[Unknown]

Oh, yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And, and so now I've got, I'm just back to what, a year.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, really? How long were you out for?

[Jackson Galaxy]

One night. But it was a hell of a night. It was a long, crazy, thought I was gonna die. A night?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Not worth it.

[Jackson Galaxy]

No, man. It was the first time that like, I was like cognizant of the fact that. Wait a minute. This isn't really, really high and good. I'm gonna die, you know.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Unknown]

Right away.

[Marc Maron]

Right? Yeah. Would you have an hour of good and then just some dying I had.

[Jackson Galaxy]

The second it hit me, I was like, I, okay, I'm in trouble, you know?

[Marc Maron]

Good times.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And so. Yeah, no, I mean, I, but, but it's always there. It doesn't, doesn't go anywhere.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I don't know. Like, I, I, I don't, I don't feel compelled. You know, the weird thing is, is like, if I feel compelled towards anything, I was sort of a coke booze guy and you know, but the only thing that like, is mildly compelling as I get older is like, there's so much weed around.

[Jackson Galaxy]

I know. You know, I was just saying that, like, you go to. The thing about avoiding New York in the summer is because it smelled like piss. Now it just smells like piss and weed.

[Marc Maron]

It's. Weed is everywhere. And here you just go to the store and you just buy this weed that, like, when we were kids, that would have cost $300 for a bud that looked like that in Iowa.

[Jackson Galaxy]

We were picking it up it was ditch weed. We were picking it out and like, all seeds and nothing else. And, like, I. I am actually glad because there's so. It's such a consumer culture now, and I. I will buy things.

[Unknown]

I know.

[Marc Maron]

I know.

[Jackson Galaxy]

You know, I just. I can't go anywhere. Knew that stuff.

[Marc Maron]

No, no. And, like, I don't think about it. I've been working around booze my whole life. So when you're in Boulder. So you get sober the first time.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

How do. How do cats figure into this? I mean, did you give up the other dream?

[Jackson Galaxy]

No. I mean, I was there as a musician, and that means that I was broke all the time. And so I'd worked a bunch of awful, shitty jobs. And after the fifth awful, shitty job, I saw an ad for an actual shitty job at the shelter, which was, like, picking up shit and jumped on it. And it was within weeks, literally weeks, that like, all of a sudden everyone was like, you know, the cats like you?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And they would. I would just stand there and they would just come to me. I would eat my lunch. They would come up to me. They started calling me Catboy, even though I knew nothing. And I figured I should probably learn something, especially since we were in a really desperate place back then. I mean, we were killing 10 to 12 million cats and dogs every year.

[Marc Maron]

When I met my girlfriend, you know, she was at work in the shelter here. She's a big animal person, and it just her heart couldn't take it.

[Jackson Galaxy]

She works here?

[Marc Maron]

No, now she's at a doggy daycare, but she was at. She was at Pasadena. She was at best friends for a while. She was, you know, I mean, she's an animal welfare person.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

Right now she's got, you know, two kittens from a feral litter down the hall, and she's got, you know, three of her own cats, and now she's got a dog, and it's. It's kind of crazy over there, but she lives for it and. But the shelter became too heartbreaking.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah, I mean, I. I don't know how I made it as long as I did. I mean, I was at that shelter for 10 years.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And what'd you learn? When you said you wanted to learn, you know, how did you start?

[Jackson Galaxy]

I mean, look, there was nothing. There was. There was. And, you know, to be completely honest, it's still that way. Where?

[Marc Maron]

In terms of cat behavioral captive.

[Jackson Galaxy]

No, just cats, period. And, I mean, you know, outside of, like, their bones and their organs.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Jackson Galaxy]

But, I mean, we.

[Marc Maron]

We.

[Jackson Galaxy]

We spend all our Time on dogs. We spend all of our knowledge and wanting to know around dogs. And so that really, in terms of writing, me just getting a grip on, all I cared about was this. I get a cat that comes into the shelter, they're scared or they're aggressive or whatever, we're going to kill them in about two hours. What is it that I can do in the next two hours that will keep her alive till tomorrow so that I can keep something else going so that I can eventually get her adopted?

[Marc Maron]

That's all I'm saying. So the deal was, when you get a feral cat, or like any cat, any cat, you knew that they were unadoptable because they were not socialized.

[Jackson Galaxy]

I knew because we were the ones who had to kill him. So I knew if. If I couldn't put them on the adoption floor, and we were, well, what?

[Marc Maron]

Determined that if we couldn't put them on adoption in terms of either, they.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Were like, if, you know that that cat is going to sit in that cage for months because they're not going to face their audience, they're going to come out, they're not going to take those three steps to the front of the cage. They're just going to hang out in the back. So that was reason enough. And. And if they were, you know, there's two sides of the same coin. They're both sort of cat anxiety. One goes all the way back, one comes forward and tries to kick your ass. Every time you go through both of those ends of the spectrum would be plenty of reason. So the scared ones, assuming they weren't feral cats, you know, back then, we were doing stuff that now is sort of codified. We call it TNR now. Back then it was like, you're feral. I'm putting you back out there.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Jackson Galaxy]

You don't belong here.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, trap and release, you mean.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Right. But back then it didn't have a name. It was called me stealing cats and putting them out in the trailer park.

[Marc Maron]

Right? Yeah, there's that.

[Jackson Galaxy]

They were neutered, though. Yeah, we got them neutered.

[Marc Maron]

Well, yeah, no, you got to do that. When my first batch of cats, you know, I had a. You know, a lot of my radio voice was sort of developed around my journey with these feral litter from behind my apartment in Queens.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

Because I didn't know they were feral. And once they're eating on their own, it's game over in a lot of ways. So I trapped four of them and brought them into my apartment with a shoebox.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Holy shit.

[Marc Maron]

And they just Destroyed my apartment. And then it just became this whole journey. They just destroyed it. And they were howling at their mother in the window. And I didn't know what to do because then I couldn't get them out because they didn't know where to go. And just became this journey with these four monsters. And, you know, I was reaching out to. To cat people to get them fixed and to get their shots.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And this was in New York.

[Marc Maron]

It was in New York in an apartment in Astoria. And I was on the mics for. At Air America, and I was just, you know, having.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Right. God, I forgot about.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And I was having to deal with this. And, you know, I didn't know. Like, I grew up with animals my whole life, and I think at that point, had I had. Did I have butch yet? I think I'd already lost. Like, I had a cat. My first cat was given to me by that woman who got me sober, who I was involved with, and that had a congenital heart problem. I'd moved out here in 20, you know, 21, and it died, you know, less than 2 years old. It was terrible. And I got. We got another cat, Boomer, who came with that name from, you know, a no kill shelter. But, like, I thought he had the most personality in the shelter, but it turns out now I know he was these feral. Yeah, yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

That's personality.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. So, you know, I had him for years, but. But this was a different batch. And it just got very crazy, you know, like, I tried to find, you know, I got them all fixed and I gave one to the bodega or the little store across the street. They wanted a mouser, but it just disappeared immediately because it was crazy feral. And then one. Some person took another one. But I had two of those cats for 16 years.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Holy cow. You know, did they ever tame up.

[Marc Maron]

For you a bit? You know, I think they. They did, but they're just a little twitchy. But. But I've grown to realize that because I'm not innately, I think, you know, genetically a regular cat person, I'm kind of a brash. And I would always. I would always wonder, like, why are my cats always, you know, nervous and fucked up? Because I'm talking to him like, what's going on?

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, they're also feral cats. And I think that was something that we still. I mean, people struggle with this constantly now in terms of like, who is who and who should be outside and who shouldn't be outside and all that. But back then, it was just it was really guerrilla work, I mean, back then. So it. I mean, we're talking, what, 93, 94.

[Marc Maron]

So you're learning tricks.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And also just trusting myself. I mean, this is where it came into me saying, I know how to watch people make a world with these people and live in it, and you can do the same thing with animals. And I had that head start that the cats liked me, and from there, it was just, you know, what can I do that's going to just make them braver? And started working with a dog trainer, because I had nobody else at the shelter. She was a trainer who came to work in the shelter, you know, and I was like, listen, you got to teach me something, because I got nothing. And she taught me clicker training. And for cats. Yeah. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

How does that work?

[Jackson Galaxy]

It's the same as dogs, but it's just.

[Marc Maron]

What is clicker training?

[Jackson Galaxy]

So clicker training is like, the way a lot of dogs are. Most at this point are trained. So it's the idea that they do something you want them to do. The click signals that something good is going to come, which is usually a treat.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And then it's like a Pavlovian thing. Pretty much after that, it actually came from. First, it was pioneered with chickens and also carrier pigeons during the wars, spy pigeons. And then this woman, Karen Pryor, started using it at Sea World with the dolphins and then went to dogs. And then finally cats.

[Marc Maron]

You can do that with cats.

[Jackson Galaxy]

You can do with anybody. You can do with us. I mean, we're motivated to do something. We all learn the same way. So with the cats, it was, you know, I had a really good treat. I wouldn't feed them for a little bit, so they were a little motivated. And then teach them that taking the step is a good thing to do. Turn around. It's a good thing to do. The. The story that I always tell people is that the first one of them, I got her done within, I don't know, an hour.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Where she goes from her head to the back of the cage, head to the front of the cage, three steps to the front of the cage, hand through the bars, to do a high five through the cage. So then when the adoption area opens and people come in, she's like, trying to high five people first. Sucker is like, oh, my God, she loves me, she wants me. She's calling to me. And that was it. You know, you got her home, got her home. And then it just became like, I think I had the advantage that I got to write my own Book, literally, because I just didn't have, you know, strict rules to have to break.

[Marc Maron]

So there was no because. Look, I, I've had, you know, cats. You know, my. Another girlfriend of mine who was a painter, she like, managed an entire feral community that she moved from one place to her new place. And they just kind of came and went as they, they wanted to. And then some of them were more social than others. And, you know, she taught me some stuff, I guess. But I've had cats a long time and it's all kind of instinctual. But now I've got, you know, these, these issues, like most of my cats kind of level off and they're all right. I don't, you know, like, I didn't know that in order to, to get them to be kind of warm, you got to kind of put them on your lap and get them used to it.

[Jackson Galaxy]

I mean, I mean, and it depends. And I think one of the things that I love about cats so much is, is that the rules only apply so much.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

I mean, whatever it, it there is, they in an evolutionary perspective and to this day make a choice every day how much they want to engage.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

You know, they are self domesticated. We didn't do it, you know, so it's like in terms of our relationship to them, to me, it's a whatever works kind of thing.

[Marc Maron]

Sure.

[Jackson Galaxy]

I mean, obviously they're, they're energetically, incredibly sensitive. So they don't go for the like. And they're not going to take orders no matter what. You know what I mean? They're not. You could yell all day, you could say, sit all day. It's never going to work.

[Marc Maron]

Well, a lot of people are surprised that my cats know their names. I guess some people have a problem with that, but all my cats know their names.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah. And your guys seem just like, they are totally centered and present and out and about. And I told you, like, I've got three cats to two of them you would never know exist.

[Marc Maron]

Interesting.

[Jackson Galaxy]

When you first come over to the house. But I just don't believe in, like, if, if you're a lap cat, you're a lap cat. If you're like, I'm gonna hang up by your toes at the end of the bed, I will be just as, you know, honored, you know?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

I just don't want you being scared and small and under the bed. That's my only thing.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah. I don't, I've never really. I don't think I've had a cat like that until they get fragile. But like, you know, Charlie, who is the current problem and all my cats, like Buster in my old house, he just showed up and started eating the food. I was feeding the ferals outside.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And he was like maybe two and a half months old and. But he wasn't, he wasn't really feral. I, I feel like somebody got him as a kitten.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And then he got away.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

And was out there for a bit.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But you know, then he, he ate some plant or like I knew about the. He ate a bouquet of plants when he was like a year or so old and went into renal failure.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Oh wow.

[Marc Maron]

And I don't. It wasn't. There wasn't lilies in the bouquet but I think there must have been the pollens. But I, you know, at that time I'm like, what kind of idiot is going to spend ten grand on a cat? And there I was with this year old kitten.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yep.

[Marc Maron]

You know, saving him at the emergency vet. And now he's like nine and I think he's only got one functioning cat kidney. I found out. Really?

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I always wondered. But he's all right.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

He seems, he didn't meet him yet.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Although he's the one who's the older one.

[Marc Maron]

And then, then Charlie, the problem.

[Jackson Galaxy]

He's great.

[Unknown]

He's.

[Marc Maron]

He is great.

[Jackson Galaxy]

He's great.

[Marc Maron]

But he, he's from a feral litter from next door.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Is he?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And she was moving him around.

[Jackson Galaxy]

But he's the same thing. He's completely like people.

[Marc Maron]

I got him like, I got him like she was. They all ended up under my steps back here with the mother and she was moving them again and she had moved them all except for him and she's probably coming back from. But I got him at like two and a half weeks and my girlfriend, you know, bottle fed him.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

And now that's what I got.

[Jackson Galaxy]

That's, you know what I spoil brat. Spoiled also. And I say this because I think that there's people in like the sort of more educated community who would like say I'm completely full of shit, but I bottle babies and he's a bottle baby. They have completely like they are so much more human than they are cat kind of. Right. And he is that.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Like he's a bottle baby.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Did he like, did he do the thing where he like holds on to you or her or like just like he needs to be touching, he needs to be near you guys?

[Marc Maron]

Well, he like. There was a bit of that. And then Sam, the kind of dim one, he came from a litter that she. A friend of hers had knew. You know, it was a. I don't think it was a feral litter, but he wasn't wild either. And he always looked nervous and he kind of turned into this very odd cat. That's the weird thing about cats is like, they're only gonna be who they are who they are, and then you're gonna have to just deal with that.

[Jackson Galaxy]

You make them the best version. You know what I mean? That's it.

[Marc Maron]

You gotta figure out who. But here was. The thing is that Buster was alone with me for a while because Monkey and La Fonda had passed the. The. The ferals from Queens. And he used to beat up on Monkey when Monkey was sick.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know, because he was this little kitten. And then when. When I brought Sammy in before Charlie, Buster just beat the out of him. Just made him a total punk. And so like, he's. They're like this. Like this gay couple and. And Sammy's just totally all about Buster.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know, he owns him.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And then I bring Charlie in and Buster doesn't want to even deal with it.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Well, what makes Charlie an asshole?

[Marc Maron]

Because he does, you know, he. He likes to start shit. You know, I've got that catio out there, and if I'm going to close it, he'll jump out there and he won't come in.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Just to. With me.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Right, right.

[Marc Maron]

But the bigger problem is he's an interesting cat because during the day he does a sing, you know, and then, you know. But he's pretty independent of the other cats too. But at night, he'll always sleep with me and he'll get up in my face and everything.

[Jackson Galaxy]

That's the thing. That's the bottle baby thing.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah. He'll like, you know, fuck with my face. But then during the day he's like, yeah, just, you know, you stay in your place, I'll let you know. But he's always in my shit. Here's the problem with Charlie, and it's a real problem because I'm like, problem with Charlie? Yeah. I'm locked in with these cats is when I go away, you know, he's gotten aggressive towards Buster. So there's three males in there. And my vet says that's weird because they usually all get along, but this is not what's happening. Charlie is outside of those two, and there's always a little spatting between them. But when I go away, he'll fucking. He shit all over the house once and he Beats up on Buster to the point where I get home and they're scared. There's hissing, and it's just a fucking nightmare. And the vet was like, well, I'm gonna. I usually prescribe Prozac, so I tried that, but I couldn't take it. I couldn't. Like. I don't. Like. I don't like Prozac for me. And when I put Charlie on it, he just, like, turned into a different thing.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And I stuck with it for, like, two weeks, so I can't do it to him.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Well, I mean, I think. Well, first of all, look, there's a place for psych meds with cats. 100% as much as there is for humans. That there's that. But with him, I mean, all you had to do is say, like, half of that, and I'm like, oh, I know what's going on. You know? And so he.

[Marc Maron]

Separation anxiety.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Totally.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah. I mean, it's just. You leave and he loses his center.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And then he spends the rest of his time trying to find it. And things like on the floor, for instance, is, I'm gonna leave a mark here because I need proof that I exist. You know what I mean? That. That.

[Marc Maron]

Well, he gets. He. Like, he was getting colitis, so it was. It was just like diarrhea everywhere.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Poor guy. Yeah. That's just stress, and that's not. And I think you, you know, not. I'm not throwing shade on anybody, but, I mean, that's not what you would use Prozac for.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And I think we start to throw around psych meds because we just got to figure out how to get cats to live with us.

[Marc Maron]

But it makes them a different cat.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah. And that's the thing. I mean, ideally, it shouldn't. I mean, the cats that I recommend medication for are mentally suffering. You know what I mean? For real mentally suffering. And he just. He's. He is just my cat.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And I mean, do you have a sitter who comes over?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, she comes over, you know, and. And feeds him, and they know her, and she'll play with them and stuff.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And.

[Marc Maron]

But the thing is, like, I've tried a lot of stuff, you know, and usually he kind of. He kind of loses it three, three or four days in, and he starts beating up on Buster, which he does anyways. But, like, I think I've been able to manage a shit problem with a probiotic, you know, calming probiotic that I'd given before, and I got him on. Now I got him on zilkeen. Which I don't know if it really works. Yeah, I've got felways all over the house.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Those don't really work.

[Marc Maron]

They don't work.

[Jackson Galaxy]

No.

[Marc Maron]

And, you know, now we got the music going.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I've got a time. Right. Because I'm preparing to go away.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Was that jazz I was having?

[Marc Maron]

No, it's. It's like new classical, so it's more ambient thing, you know. And. And I don't. I don't.

[Jackson Galaxy]

He's like, I don't want no George Winston in my head.

[Marc Maron]

Too much makeup, too anxious. But. But I did get. You know, I did have her give me a script for Gaba Penton. And I'm just going to tell the sitter to, like, look, if he really starts to, you know, if buster. If there's hissing and it's like, really up, you know, just give him that in the morning.

[Jackson Galaxy]

I mean, I. I think that. When are you leaving?

[Marc Maron]

Sunday.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Oh, it's about to happen. Okay.

[Marc Maron]

But I was just away, and now I've been home for a few weeks, and they're totally fine. And I think I seem to know what's going on. I'm informed. And I was going to bring him with me, but then it's like, whether I drive or whether I have to walk him through fucking security. I've done all that shit before. And then bring him to a new environment.

[Jackson Galaxy]

You got to take him out to TSA and all that.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, God, dude. I did a whole bit on that with the old cats because I never traveled. And that was the feral one.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And I. Oh, my God.

[Jackson Galaxy]

You had to travel with them, like.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I had to get them out here. And one of them, Lafonda, was a monster. I mean, she was like, scary cat. And just to get her in the cage, like, I had to wear gloves or she was gonna me up.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And now I'm like, at tsa, and I didn't know the first time I did. They're like, you got to take her out and walk her through. I'm like, you guys don't even know. This cat is nuts. We're all in trouble. You know? And they were. It was always almost like, you know, I scared all of them. The tsa, everyone was like, just stand back, you know? And, like, I got her out, and I didn't realize all she wanted. All they wanted is get back in the box.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So, like, she was, like, freaked out, and I got her through and I got her in the box. It was fine. Oh, you're so lucky if you heard horror stories.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah. I mean, didn't you hear about the cat who wound up in the bowels of Kennedy for, like, what, like, three.

[Marc Maron]

Years because it got away from someone walking?

[Jackson Galaxy]

I don't know if it happened during tsa, but it was just. The cat wound up just in the bowels. That. That happens all the time. Because all that had to happen while you were online. Was somebody behind you, sneezes, makes a big noise.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And she's gone.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Gone. She's been gone. Now, what people don't know is that you can actually request a roof.

[Marc Maron]

You know, I heard that somewhere.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah. I figured that out a couple years ago, too. But I. I think that there's stuff I. I would tell you that, like, look, if you got to do it this time, you got to do it this time, but there's things that I think that you can do to pass. It all depends on the person who stays here when you're not here.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Does she stay here?

[Marc Maron]

Well, sometimes, but, I mean. But usually it's just for a while, you know, and she's like. She works at the Humane Society. I mean, she knows these cats, and she'll try to tire them out a little bit and play with them, and.

[Jackson Galaxy]

You know, here's the test, I would say, is that if she stays over.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

When she stays over, does he raise hell or not?

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Jackson Galaxy]

If he doesn't, then we know what's going on.

[Marc Maron]

What? It's just.

[Jackson Galaxy]

He just. He. Like I was telling you about the bottle baby thing, he gets his center from human energy.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And so without it, he's trying to make the rules. You know what I mean? It suddenly turns into Lord of the Flies in his head because he just doesn't. He. He needs structure that's dictated by you guys, and. And I'm not, like, I'm not dismissing your actual relationship.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

But. But I do think that if you have routine. She picks up that routine. You hand the baton. She does exactly that. You just try that for a couple of days, and it works. And at least we know all he needs is somebody living here. And he doesn't need.

[Marc Maron]

Right. Interesting.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah. I mean, I think that there's. It's amazing.

[Marc Maron]

I figured that was it. I didn't know how the territorialism worked, but the idea that if he's anchored to humans, and then all of a sudden, he's like, you know, I'm the guy now.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And I'm just gonna, like.

[Jackson Galaxy]

If you think about the fact that, like, cats, you know, they, they, they define their well being by, you know, how satisfied the raw cat is in the back, you know, the ancestors in the back of their head and ownership of territory is all of it.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

So you are telling these guys, and especially him, I own it. Yeah, your kingdom too. But I totally own it.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And he gets, he feels okay with that. You leave and all of a sudden I call it cat Napoleon syndrome where I don't own anything. I'm freaked the out because I don't own anything. I'm going to over own anything. I'm going to beat you up three times even though you said, uncle, I'm going to crap here, pee here. Keep the, you know, the barbarians at the gate, you know what I mean? I got a job to do here, you know.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And that's why I think that like socially I think it would help because I mean, I meet him and he seems totally cool. Oh, no, like friendly as hell. Comes up, he wants to just rub all over. He's great, man. But I, I, that's the thing. I mean it's the paradox. It's like, you know, I, I do say thank God for, for meds. Meds are great. Meds have saved so many lives. And, and at the same time, then we, we cross over to this place where we're like, well, I want you to fit into my world.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Jackson Galaxy]

So I'm going to medicate you.

[Marc Maron]

That's when it gets, I can't do that. You know, I tried it with him, but I just like, I, I could feel that, like it was almost like he knew he was being fucked with.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yes. And there's that other thing that's, you know, when you, we give cats things that sort of sedate them a little bit. Their historical job is to be on the job. You know, so they're pushing back and you go put them off to one side, they're gonna fight twice as hard to get back.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And be mad at you.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

You meaning anything, right?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And it can't, it becomes impossible to give a medicine.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But yeah, I, I, I, I felt that this was probably, you know, I, I kind of had a sense that this was the issue. And I imagine if I drove him out, it's a long drive, but I, I imagine like, you know, within a day, you know, he'd just be happy that I was there.

[Jackson Galaxy]

I think he, he seems to me to be a great travel cat. Have you ever tried to like train anyone to a harness before?

[Marc Maron]

No.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Oh, that'd be great for him.

[Marc Maron]

What like A, Like a walking.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Like a walking harness. Yeah. And then, you know, that way, first of all, whenever you take him out of tsa, you've got total control over him. But the other thing is that, like, he just seems like someone who would want to explore, but with you.

[Marc Maron]

And Sammy's, like, the dumb one seems to be the more adventurous spirit out of all of them. Like, the one that I can't figure out. Like, if I accidentally leave the door open, he's like, he doesn't bolt, but he'll just wander out. He won't run, but he's always the one that's sort of like, all right, so what's going on?

[Jackson Galaxy]

It's like, I'm not dumb. It's an open door.

[Unknown]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

I'm just gonna see what's on the porch.

[Marc Maron]

I took him to the vet the other day, and it was kind of a shit show, you know, getting there. But once, unlike the other two, who were kind of skittish, you know, out of their element, you know, once he got in the examination room, he was like, no, this is okay.

[Jackson Galaxy]

You know, that's great. I mean, you can tell your guys are well adjusted. I think that the, Your experience of having to compromise with a feral being.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

For all those years, taught you that you have no control. You know, it's all. It's all a complete illusion. Yes, you are powerless. You are powerless over cats.

[Marc Maron]

Totally.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And, you know, other things in life. But that's why I think, for me, like, cats still hold, like, this beauty and this. This reverence for me, because I will never have them figured out, and they refuse to be. And I think that that's one of the most beautiful things on the planet.

[Marc Maron]

And what's interesting about cats is they're all so different.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

It's crazy, dude.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, I've had what now? I've had. Had Butch. I've had Boomer. I had Moxie for a while. Then I had Lafonda and Monkey, and now I've got these three. Like, they're. They're all different.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And. And they're all like, there hasn't. And I, I, I say this about all animals. I mean, I got five dogs, too, and I, I, they all. And I had chickens in the house, and, And. And all that. And I, I, I learned so much from them. They. I mean, they force you to be humble, right? Like, there's no room for hubris in the world of cats, and there's just. You will get your. Your shoes on if That's. If you try to do that, Charlie.

[Marc Maron]

Like, when he's stressed or he gets the vibe that I'm splitting. He has. For some reason, he likes to pee in sinks, so I have to cover the sinks.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But, like, he'll literally. I saw him get into a frying pan while he was looking at me and pissing it.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah. That's some stress, man. That's. That's. That's hard. I mean, I have. One of my guys will pee in the suitcase.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

That. You leave the suitcase open. They know what that means.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And they just pee in the suitcase. Oh, God. Got to London. I was. I was flying to London.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, you didn't know and all.

[Jackson Galaxy]

No. And all of a sudden I'm like, now I know that can't be on my clothes. You know, you have that, like, that little whiff of something, and I know there's no cats in this hotel room.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And you crack that thing open and it's like, now you're running down to Primark for suitcases before you have to leave.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

So they made sure I knew they were still with me.

[Marc Maron]

I. Well, so I guess I gotta just figure it out because I get so, like, stressed when I, you know, I'm waiting to hear back from who's watching. I'm like, what happened?

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah. No, I mean, I think there's some. There's some easy things I think that we can do to just make him.

[Marc Maron]

The other guys aren't like that.

[Jackson Galaxy]

No.

[Marc Maron]

Because they have each other.

[Jackson Galaxy]

They do. You know what he would like?

[Marc Maron]

What?

[Jackson Galaxy]

He would like a kitten.

[Marc Maron]

Well, that's what. That's what Kit says. And I'm like, they're not gonna.

[Jackson Galaxy]

That's right. But if you think about it the other way around, it's a whole lot better to get his stuff out than a laser toy. Like, it's an actual live thing that he can go to town on. And they'd be like, okay, what else? You know, what else you got? As opposed to the other guys who are like, back off. I don't want you anywhere near me.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

No, I mean, I think he would love a kitten. And between me and your girlfriend, like, within 20 minutes, we can have a kitten here.

[Marc Maron]

No, she's got one.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Oh, that's right. She has one.

[Marc Maron]

There's one that's unclaimed right now.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Right now.

[Marc Maron]

I know.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Oh, my God. But you're going to be gone for a bit.

[Marc Maron]

A week.

[Jackson Galaxy]

That's nothing.

[Marc Maron]

No, I know.

[Jackson Galaxy]

How old is the kitten?

[Marc Maron]

Kitten's Like, I think the kitten's like, two and a half months.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Perfect. And then by the time you get back, it's almost four months. I mean, these guys age fast, so by four months old, they have no agenda. They have no, like, territorial bone to pick with anybody. He just wants to have fun, and he just. And he. I'm telling you, trust me. Oh, well, you're gonna be like, you're calling me up. You'd be like, take a fucking kitten.

[Marc Maron]

I got a kitten.

[Jackson Galaxy]

I got a kitten for you. But I mean, and especially. Right. I mean, we're having such a rough summer.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Jackson Galaxy]

Oh, yeah. It's. I mean, kitten season is always rough, but LA is its own brand of.

[Marc Maron]

It must be insane here, because in New York, you have the winter and, you know, you'd see ferals. And like, if after the winter you see him again, you're like, holy shit. Good job.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Good job. How'd you made it?

[Marc Maron]

Where the.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Were you? There's great. There's great rescue. There's great organizations throughout the country that help out. I mean, and that's all I'm doing now. I mean, now that. That I have the time to devote back to it, I'm just back to being a shelter guy. So you get a real view of what the sort of the national condition is.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Now's not a great time.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

You know what I mean? Like, everyone's scared about their own self. And then you're like, what, I got to save animals, too?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. But it seems to be like, if you're that person, like, I know it keeps my girlfriend sane.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Animal welfare is a pretty pure form of service.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah, true. It really is. And it's. And I think that we, you know, post pandemic animal welfare went back, like, 10, 20 years, you know, and we're climbing out again. And so for people like me who grew up in the system, you get a lot of PTSD from it, because all you have to do is walk away from a shelter where you were in charge of both life and death.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And you come back into that. That is not something that you want to be a part of. But I also. I'm aware of the fact that I now have this sort of whatever it is standing or whatever it is, and that I can do a lot with it, and I'm happy as hell to do it. I love shelter animals, but I love shelter people and rescue people, and they're my sort of tribe, and that I feel like there's, like, a karmic debt that I'll be, you know, paying off. But yeah, I mean, I think right now it's one of those moments where depending on where you live in LA is just one of those places where it's actually worse for dogs right now than it is. Yeah, it's pretty bad for dogs.

[Marc Maron]

So what is, what is the most common problem that you have that you encounter with people and cats?

[Jackson Galaxy]

I mean, I don't think I'd have a job without, you know, pee. You know, I mean, yeah, the people drive humans to very rash decisions very quickly.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And blood will do the same thing.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

So it's like, it's like those, those hyper, you know, cartoon cat like behaviors that I think keep me in people's heads. But also introducing cats, I think that that's something that arguments among cats seems to be something that people are always bringing me in for.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

In fact, it was really funny and I don't know, don't ask me why I did this, but early on, whenever. I don't Google myself ever. But if you did, like when the show first started and you type my name, you know how it finishes the thing. And it was like, Jackson Galaxy gay. And I was like, okay, well, we'll take that now. It's a little more regular now. You get to Jackson Galaxy introductions.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

So that I think has become more of a. Thankfully, people are more concerned with their cats introductions. Introductions. Blood and guts, Pee and poop.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

That pretty much keeps me, you know, but, but I think the cool thing is, I think one of the coolest things is that Gen Z wise men are the thing now that in terms of spending money on cats.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

The male demographic is really the new.

[Marc Maron]

Young, the new young generation.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Isn't that amazing?

[Marc Maron]

I mean, what is Gen Z? How old are they?

[Jackson Galaxy]

I mean, they're in there. The ones who, they're twenties, they're all coming to me. They treat me like their cat grandpa, which is good and bad.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And. But yeah, early 20s, mid-20s. And they are. It's amazing because, you know that, that masculine thing that rejects.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

All things feline, they're crossing that border, which is so great for rescue. Also we have a new audience who are going to get cats. And I think that's amazing because we're breaking that stereotype. So that's great.

[Marc Maron]

That's good to hear.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Because I think I'm against the grain as far as a cat guy and I definitely speak out for them and you know, I bust on dogs a little bit, even though I grew up with many.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But I do find that, you know, it takes a certain person to deal with the cat's independence. And for me, it's perfect because, like, dogs with my life would be too high maintenance.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But now I've got Charlie.

[Jackson Galaxy]

I think it's basically, do you want to be obeyed or do you just want to live together? I think that that's the thing that comes down to. And cats are just not for you. If you want to be obeyed. If you want to be, you know, And I think it's. But I think. I know I'm being very blue sky and idealistic right now, but I think in terms of the human condition, if we are getting to a point, especially the males of the species, where we can accept the mysteries of the world a little bit better.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

And not think that we can actually orchestrate the show, that's a really good thing, you know, and that's kind of what I feel is there.

[Unknown]

Oh, good.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Waiting.

[Marc Maron]

Well, that's good. Hopefully I'll decide on a kitten later.

[Jackson Galaxy]

You mean tomorrow for me? I'm not gonna leave you alone.

[Marc Maron]

I'm gonna be stressed.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Oh, it's gonna be great.

[Marc Maron]

You have four of them.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Ah, it's gonna be great.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah, man. I promise. It's gonna be amazing. You didn't know you were in for this, huh? You think I was just gonna fix some peeing problems?

[Marc Maron]

Well, yeah, I've had peeing problems. I think I've dealt with almost everything that, you know, cats can dish out. Really.

[Jackson Galaxy]

But you know, what we're dealing with now, though, and this is the only thing about getting a kitten is that it's hard to look at a kitten and not think of your own mortality at our age.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah, that's true.

[Jackson Galaxy]

That's a tough one.

[Marc Maron]

That's gonna outlive you.

[Unknown]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jackson Galaxy]

That one's rough when you have to start making, like, living wills and shit because you've just, like, cats. Yeah. Because, I mean. Yeah. How many more kittens am I going to bring in my life? I'll foster them. I don't need to be reminded every time I look at them.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

That they're going to live for maybe 20 years.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And what have we got?

[Jackson Galaxy]

I don't know.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I know. I know, dude.

[Jackson Galaxy]

But, yeah, no, I think it's. The kitten's a great idea.

[Marc Maron]

All right, buddy. Well, it was good talking to you.

[Jackson Galaxy]

It was great talking to you.

[Marc Maron]

Thanks for doing it.

[Jackson Galaxy]

I'm so happy to finally be here.

[Marc Maron]

There you go. I think that was helpful. You can check out Jackson's YouTube page and JacksonGalaxy.com hang out for a minute, folks. Hey, listen, on Monday I talk with director Ari Aster and for full Marin subscribers, I did a mark on movies bonus episode about all of Ari's films. Hereditary Midsommar, Beau is Afraid, and Eddington. There is something about, you know, the. Because I'm going through it now. The executing the full arc of anxiety fantasies. And I think that in doing that in Beau, I don't even know if you necessarily disarm them, but you can sort of splay out the kind of, you know, renegade malignant imagination of an anxiety ridden brain.

[Jackson Galaxy]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

It was like if you like, you take those imaginary things that people catastrophize and make them all real. Right?

Yeah.

So like he has this situation where he has to run out of the house, right. Because he feels like he's going to die from the medicine he just took. And he has no water. So he runs over and he's trying to get the water. And while he's getting the water, the entire neighborhood goes into his house to party. No real, no real reason, but they just get in there having a party and then he has to sleep on the fire escape while they're in there. Like all of that stuff is presented in the movie as though it's really happening, even though it feels to us like, well, this must all be metaphorical, right? This didn't actually happen to me.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I think what it is is that maybe, and I'll ask him, the experiment was to sort of like in any given moment of anxiety about something your mind is generating. Why not just go for it?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And illustrate all of them. You know what I mean? Like, what is the worst thing that can happen? What if someone breaks into my house? What if many people breaks into my house? What if they start spray painting and partying in my house? How I get them out of there?

[Unknown]

What if when I take a. Take a bath, there's a guy hanging above the bath?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, it's like. Yeah, I think it was a sort of a kind of poetic meditation on the horrors of anxiety. Yes. To get that episode and every bonus episode we do twice a week. Subscribe to the full Marin. Just go to the link in the episode description or go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast. I just did some sloppy groove. Here you go. Boomer lives monkey and the fond of cat angels everywhere.