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- [00:02]
Marc Maron
Folks, we've waited 15 long years for King of the Hill to return to our screens, and now the classic series has arrived on Hulu. Newly retired Hank Hill and his wife Peggy return to their Texas home from the Middle east and realize things look a little different. Bobby's all grown up running a German Japanese fusion restaurant in Dallas and still fumbling through his feelings for Connie. Boomhauer continues to be a hit with the ladies as he takes his business online. Bill's really let the years get to him. And D is, well, you know, Dale is just Dale. Arwen sure has changed as Hank and Peggy try to find their bearings again. But one thing's for sure, the Alley guys are right where Hank left them, beers in hand. And Alamos on ice. Same hill, new day. Yep. A whole new season of King of the Hill is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply. All right, let's do this. How are you? What the. What the Buddies? What the Nicks? What's happening? I'm Mark Marin. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. What's happening with you? What is going on? Well, I'll be honest with you. I. In preparation for the departure of my social life in the form of this show, I've realized that, you know, I'm gonna have to kind of get that somewhere else. It's a very weird thing about what's going on inside of me. I think. I think the inner child idea, though a little hackneyed and probably played out, is somewhat real. It's an interesting model because I do believe there's part of me, emotionally, that really hasn't really evolved that much since I was probably 30, 13, or 14. And at some point early in college, I decided to, you know, permanently lock that kid in a cage and just, you know, kind of be different varieties of monster. Until I leveled off into a kind of a wiser, more tamped down version of my adult self. But there is this, like, need for me to. To kind of, like, let that kid out a little bit, breathe and, you know, get on board. I had this very weird moment. After everything that's gone on over the last couple weeks, just everything that I've been doing and showing up for publicity, the special dropping, just, you know, all the stick being renewed, all the stuff that would generally overwhelm me and does to the point of massive anxiety. There was a moment where I was standing in front of my house, and I think this was some other part of me, some younger part of me. There was a younger part of me and standing there inside of me, who was like, how'd you even pull this off? Whose house is this? How did you do this? Is that your car? And I'm like, yeah, dude. You know, I don't. I don't know. I know. I don't know exactly. I'm sorry I kind of, you know, kept you out of it. But, yeah, this is what we're doing. This is who we are now, you know? This is the life we're living. And he's like, jesus, that's crazy. And I'm like, yeah, it is. I have no idea. I don't know if you helped or not. I mean, did you. He's like, I don't know. I mean, sometimes I had dreams, but, you know, that didn't exactly look like this. But, yeah, good for you. And I'm like, good for us, dude. Good for us. I guess so. That's sort of what I'm dealing with. In other words, I went to a meeting the other night for the first time in a long time. I know there was a few people there that are a little concerned at my apparent dryness. I'm talking recovery racket talk here. So I'm like, well, that's one way to get what you need, because there is part of me that's sort of like, when I get stressed, there's a real part of me that's like, why doesn't somebody help me? Why doesn't somebody do this? Why doesn't somebody make this better? Where's my mommy and daddy? Well, your dad's got dementia and your mom's down in Florida. But I thought, like, well, there is help, and you know where it is, so why don't you go. Go to one of the secret society meetings, reopen those neural pathways, connect the fucking vibe. Talk about the isms, you dry fuck. So that was good. Let's see if I stick by it. Stick with it. I'll stick by it, but I gotta stick with it. Gotta go. Today on the show, we have a unique thing. This is a talk with Jim Gaffigan that was recorded last Thursday at the 92nd Street Y in New York City. First, there was a screening of Panicked, then this talk with Jim, including audience questions, so we thought we'd share that. Me and Jimmy catching up, doing the thing, the old timer thing. Couple of old comics, medium old, coming in medium warm. Not coming in hot, coming in lukewarm. That's what's going on on the show today. Bit of a cat update. You know, I've done Everything I can. In order to try to ease Charlie's anxiety and aggression and insane temperament. I've done everything I can. I did Fellow ways in every room. I. I played with him until he was panting and exhausted. I. I played some weird channel, Rumschlag or something where it's just almost ambient and neoclassical music. And to no avail. He's still just locked in. And all he wanted to do is beat the fuck out of Buster, which makes it a very sad house. So I'm trying the Prozac again at a smaller dose. And it's fucking a pain in the ass to give this cat medicine. I know that's not unusual, but, you know, these people that have cats, we'll just mix it in with the food. I'm like, you don't have my cat. I've got to hold this fuck down and, you know, and squirt it in his mouth. And then he hates me for. For longer than you think. You know, kids are like, no, they just remember that the act, not you. And I'm like, I don't know. Seems kind of pissed off. But we're a couple days into it and something's happening. Not. I think when I did it with him last time, I had a higher dose and it just knocked him out. Now he's just a little loopy and kind of surprised and confused. He still seems to want to go after Buster, but not with the intensity or focus that he had before. So, I don't know. I'll try to stick with it. I'm not going to project. He doesn't seem to like me as much as he used to because, you know, he's. Something about the Prozac is diminishing. His, you know, intense need for my attention. I'll deal with that. I've. You know, I've dealt. I've been in relationships like that before. Usually it's the other way around, but. But, yeah. But the saddest part about it is there's this mild tension. And I project a lot into my cats, and I have this sort of ambient, kind of meditative music, but it kind of operates as a soundtrack. So whatever I'm projecting onto these cats in terms of drama and sadness, it just gets elevated with this. You know, it's comforting kind of. It's meditative, but there's always a slight menace to that stuff. It's always a sad turn in a movie or, you know, a kind of pensive, quieter scene, or, you know, someone's just gotten their heartbroken and they're thoughtful or it's maybe moving into something terrible. So it's not helping me. I don't know if it's helping the cats, but it is creating a soundtrack to everything I think is going on in their minds, which probably isn't much. I imagine with Buster it's like, just keep that fucker away from me. I imagine with Charlie it's like, where is that fucker? I imagine with Sam, which is just sort of like, why are these fuckers doing this? So, and then the kind of like, that's not a good impression. I don't know if I can manufacture kind of ambient neoclassical music, but I think you get my drift. Do you get my drift? When you think of home security, you probably think of alarms that go off or the direct response to a break in. But the peace of mind that comes from the best home security is knowing it's preventative. It stops problems before they start. We've been using SimpliSafe for almost a decade. And thanks to features like SimpliSafe's Active Guard outdoor protection, we know SimpliSafe can prevent break ins before they happen. With AI powered cameras and live professional monitoring agents, there's always someone keeping watch over your property to detect suspicious activity. Also, SimpliSafe is ranked number one in customer service for home security providers by both Newsweek and USA Today, and also by us here at WTF because we've always had great experiences with the SimpliSafe customer service reps. Right now, head to SimpliSafe.com WTF to get the best value in home security. WTF listeners can get 50% off their SimpliSafe system with professional monitoring and their first month free at SimpliSafe.com WTF? That's SimpliSafe.com WTF for 50% off, there's no safe like SimpliSafe. So I guess I'll keep talking about this because, you know, whatever I did leading up to the special, putting it out there, some of the material going viral and stuff, it really seems to be getting out there and it is rewarding and I am happy that it's drawing a lot of eyes to it because I'm proud of the special. And yeah, there's usual trolling, but most of the feedback is awesome. I think somehow or another I captured a moment in our culture and the timing was correct. You don't know with that kind of thing because something's going to be on the shelf for a little while before they release it. But the turnaround was quick and unfortunately, in a very Unfortunate way, not much has changed since the beginning of this fucking shit show we're in. But outside of that, and I believe this wholeheartedly that there is definitely something in the special for everyone. I designed it like that. Sure, some things are going to be like a little hard to take or not your cup of tea, but I, I believe there is something in there for everybody. And the response has been great. As I've said before, I believe it's my best work and I'm happy it's out there. And even the stuff that people are picking up on on the social media platforms in the form of clips, I like that they can survive like that and that even just a little bit happen, you know, has, has, has an impact. I mean, there's a line in that special that I think is one of the best lines of the special that I came up with days before. And I, it's just a testament to my ridiculous process of kind of generating on stage and waiting for things to be delivered to me that they are. And I, I can't say it's an easy way to go and I don't know where I'm going to go now. It's a, it's a kind of, it's difficult. And one of the reasons why I always say that, you know, this might be it for me is because at the end of doing two years worth of work on an hour and change, you know, you have stuff left over that you can sometimes use to kind of get back in the groove and build out from there. But it always feels like I'm not, It's not going to come. And that's where I'm at now. Square one. Square one with the, with the comedy. And then soon I'll be out of this gig and, and that'll leave a lot of space and. Oh, no, please cue the ambient music. Oh, God. But yeah, so it's not a sad time, but it's an in between time. And there is a little kind of postpartum weight to it. But I hope you're enjoying it. I hope you continue to enjoy it until I am tapped and until the show goes away. So, look, Jim and I had a nice chat. It was recorded at the 92nd Street Y in New York as part of their Craig Newmark Civic Life series. The screening went nice, went good. And then Jim and I sat down behind the curtain and they just revealed us. There was no introductions. It was just, you guys sit in those chairs and we'll raise the curtain. It was like contestants on a game Show. It's kind of funny. But I love Jim, and I hope you enjoy this conversation. Thank you. Thank you.
- [12:57]
Jim Gaffigan
The most. The most theatrical reveal for a Q and A I've ever seen. Right.
- [13:03]
Marc Maron
It's like a game show opening. Are you ready to play Jim?
- [13:06]
Jim Gaffigan
And let's reveal Mark and Jim, ladies and gentlemen. Mark. What a fantastic special.
- [13:12]
Marc Maron
Thank you. Really, thank you. Appreciate that.
- [13:18]
Jim Gaffigan
And I watched it.
- [13:20]
Marc Maron
I just watched it again, you know, with you. You guys. Yeah, it's a lot.
- [13:26]
Jim Gaffigan
Well, you know, I've known you for a while, and you are a lot, Mark. But I think that creatively, by the way, and I'm not just saying this. I think this. I feel like you're getting better at this. Right? Wouldn't you agree?
- [13:44]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [13:45]
Jim Gaffigan
I mean, this is how many years in. Oh, my God, 500 years?
- [13:51]
Marc Maron
Well, I guess as a professional, since 88. Right. So it's about the same as you. Right. Like, I think I first did it, like, 86, 87 was when it was starting out. Then they had all those cable shows. We'd all do, like, you remember, there's Evening, the Improv, Caroline's Comedy Hour, MTV Half hour. And they would just use guys that had, like, 10 minutes of material, and we'd do them.
- [14:12]
Jim Gaffigan
And I'm sure that a lot of people here are fans of yours, and I've known you for so long. And the biggest thing that I picked up in this special, which, by the last special, was amazing, but this special, there is something very uncharacteristically, Marc Maron. There is a happiness. And that's not to say that you're not the lunatic and there isn't the authentic anger, but, like, there is. Maybe it's not happiness. Maybe there's a peace.
- [14:48]
Marc Maron
I think I may be grounded, and I do think. I don't know if I'm happier necessarily, but I am. I think I have a true sense of who I am now, you know, on stage, and I have a confidence in it. So there's no desperation, there's no panic around it, and there's no, like. You know, I think the anger when I was younger was part of it. Like, I really tried to sell anger. Like, I assumed there was a period there, remember when, during Luna Lounge, where I'd get on stage and just improvise these miserable, bitter stories. And I could not understand why people weren't laughing, because I really believed, like, everyone's gotta be as fucking miserable as me. They're just afraid to laugh at it, you know? And then years went by And I'm like, yeah, I don't think it's funny at all, you know, but I think what's happening is I'm older, I give, you know, less fucks, and I think my craft is in, you know, a pretty amazing place. I feel like I have versatility within, you know, this thing we've been doing our whole lives. And I do think I'm grounded. And maybe I'm definitely at peace with myself as a performer because of. I think when I was younger, I probably would have tried to do that babysitter joke, but it wouldn't have come out right. And arguably it's a difficult piece of material, but. But there was always part of me that sort of wanted to defy an audience. And I think that part of me still exists, but now I can be a little more charming about it.
- [16:31]
Jim Gaffigan
Yeah, now there is. There's so much about, you know, you develop these skills of developing material, and it's all self assignment.
- [16:42]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [16:42]
Jim Gaffigan
And by the way, let me say the first. First part, when you're talking about some topical stuff, we live in a very interesting time and age where.
- [16:51]
Marc Maron
Diplomatic word.
- [16:52]
Jim Gaffigan
Yeah. No, where. Where I truly believe there is. There's almost zero appetite for the topic that you discussed. And you did it beautifully. And you did it where I wanted to hear more, like that first five or 10 minutes. And I was, like, so amazed because there was a time during the first administration of Trump where I think people would just look at the ceiling like, I don't wanna talk about this, but, like, we are at a point where, like, I think, you know, you are discussing things in a way where it's very cathartic. I mean, I know it's. As a performer, it's cathartic for you, but it's like, I think the audience. I could feel the audience going, yes, Y. Yes, this is exactly what we're kind of experiencing.
- [17:50]
Marc Maron
That was actually tricky on a craft level, if I can talk that kind of shit, because, look, I do politics. For a period in most of the specials, I would never call myself a political comic. Cause that just means so. But I feel like it's my social responsibility. I always have, because of whatever my heroes were, whoever they were, whether it be hicks or whoever, that there is a point where it's my social responsibility to talk about it. But in doing it the way I did it, this special, it was very deliberate because in some of the jobs I take at Progressives, that it's very easy, especially from our side of it. And I'll assume most of you. So it is very easy to sound strident and it is very easy to sound self righteous and I'm certainly capable of that, of strutting through that material with an almost aggravated condescension. And heading into doing the special, like I changed it like a week before in starting that material where, you know, the difference between like, oh, everything's great, great and like, I feel everything's great. Like, so there was, I decided to come under it and just kind of put it, do it as almost as an aside, you know, like pretty good, you know, because I didn't want it to be tonally off putting to those other side people until they, until it happened. You know, like, I really wanted people of all kinds to watch this pressure like, oh, okay. And then slowly go like, oh, what the fuck? You know, like I wanted, I made a conscious choice to change the tone of heading into that and then the balance between, you know, finding a way to laugh at ourselves as progressives or left of center. Certainly, you know, it's sort of delicate because, you know, you push that a little too far and they're going to be mad at you. But I was able to find these things because I relate to them personally. That, that, that worked. But I also knew that in that first section that I was not going to end up in a place where like, we're going to fix this. But I knew that it had to have a specific tone and balance for. Because I did. I was doing this stuff on the road, man, and it was, you know, after he was voted in and because of my audience, I was doing red states and it really started to feel like community service like it did. And I feel like it's my responsibility to at least relieve something because if you perform in certain states and you realize I got 800 people in a theater who are. A lot of them may be at home with whoever they live with or maybe alone, just freaking out with their phone all the time, scared, terrified, despairing. And it did feel like a community event where a bunch of like minded people could be in this room, laugh at themselves, kind of laugh at what's going on or at least feel less alone in it. And it felt like it was important.
- [21:17]
Jim Gaffigan
But do you. All right, so like, I think self awareness is such an important element of this special and your stand up. Do you feel any. And maybe you've discussed this and I haven't heard it on the podcast, but like, do you feel any kind of. Because you are kind of this outlet for people not doing the podcast. Do you feel a certain kind of like, well, I'm sorry, folks, I'm not doing it anymore. Like, there's a little bit of, like, when I heard you were not gonna do the podcast anymore, and you. You do have this voice where even when you and I, you know, I mean, comedians have this strange affection for all comedians. We're all mentally ill. But, like, there's, like, when you were, like, doing the Hitler Theo Vaughn thing, it was, like, really funny. And the thing is, it's like there was a certain aspect of your podcast that was a consistent vocal element of that.
- [22:20]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [22:21]
Jim Gaffigan
That I feel like by you stopping the podcast, do you feel like you're removing that voice of self awareness being inserted?
- [22:32]
Marc Maron
Well, I. Look, you know, I feel. I know there's a lot of people who listen to me. I get emails, you know, like. But I get good ones, too, you know. You know, that kind of built a relationship with me and rely on it, and it does allow me to explore my ideas in my brain and speak freely without it having to be funny. And I am definitely going to miss that, but I'm a little exhausted in terms of. Because you carry that with you. You carry the responsibility that you design for yourself with your audience, with you, you know, as whatever. You have it, too. And with the podcast, like, they're always in my head, you know, like, you know, if I decide, like, hey, I hope you don't mind, but I'm gonna, you know, live my own life for a while. I know it's gonna fuck up your day a little bit, but I've been telling you how I've been living for 16 years, and I've made some progress, so I want to see how it works in the real world. So. But they live in my head. They're like, don't go, man. We need you right now. And I'm like, yeah, I know you need me, but it's not like anything I'm gonna do on my podcast is all of a sudden gonna change the world necessarily. But it does comfort people, and I feel bad about that. But I do need for my own sanity and to sort of let the podcast go as a body of work as opposed to, you know, this disposable thing that you keep doing because you have to, you know, you don't want to diminish because, you know, you do get. You do get tired.
- [24:17]
Jim Gaffigan
Absolutely.
- [24:17]
Marc Maron
You know that section where I say I just want to be entertaining? You know, that was. That's a real thing with me. Like, you know, I know that I do Challenging stuff. And I've done it all my life. And I don't always know exactly why or whether it's coming from a good place or whether it's literally like, I have this great audience, but like, let's see if they can handle this, you know, so. And I have that part of me, you know, But. But like, like guys like you, like, I've spent my whole life sort of envying the ability to. To just, just be funny. Like, just be funny, dude. You know, you don't have to like, you know, hammer anything over the head or make these big points. And when I did that cat thing, I was so thrilled that it kind of came together. Kind of like, this is just pure comedy. I can just bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. And it's not gonna offend anybody. It's not gonna make anybody go, like, what the fuck is wrong with this guy? You know? And lately I'm like, could I just do like a whole hour of that? I don't think I can. I don't think I can. Because it's actually harder. It's harder. Like, I know when I talk about politics and this is just on, you know, from comic to comic here, you know, put them aside. Like, I know, you know, I know that I'm gonna lose people. Like, I know with that material, you know, I've kind of, you know, hardened my. Not my heart, but like, I know that I'm going. If I'm going to deliver, you know, ideologically based humor that is divisive to some people, that it's going to be that. So you kind of girder up and you realize, like, this isn't for everybody, but I think it's necessary. And then, you know, when you don't get the laughs that you think you should, you're sort of like, well, that's cause that material's a little hard to handle. Whereas you just be funny all the time. If you don't get laughs, you fucked up.
- [26:02]
Jim Gaffigan
But I think that I always say that people, comedians get so much credit or criticism for the only type of comedy they can do. There is not some. Like, when people are like, oh, it's so great that why don't you curse? And I jokingly will say, Jesus told me not to. Some of it is. That is the comedy that works for me. And so some of it is the most fulfilling form of comedy is what you do because it's all self assignment, right? It's not as if someone is like, you have to discuss trauma at certain point in an act that Is Mark decided. I'm going to. I'm gonna. At this point, I'm gonna challenge myself to discuss trauma in a way where I'm not gonna alienate the people that are or, you know, that have processed trauma. I'm actually gonna inform them about EMDR and all this, and I'm gonna make it humorous. It's like, that's what's so rewarding about a comedian, is you have these tragic things that happen. You go, all right, my wife had a brain tumor. I think I'm gonna try and make this funny. And that's the game.
- [27:19]
Marc Maron
And it's hilarious.
- [27:20]
Jim Gaffigan
Yeah. So it's. Hopefully. But. So let's talk about, like. Let's talk about the.
- [27:30]
Marc Maron
But that's important, though, because, like, with the trauma thing, I think that what I'm speaking to is what I learned from doing, from bleak to dark in relation to grief, is that I realized that there is this zone of human experience that is almost 100% of people have these things like, you're not going to get out of it without grief, and you're not going to get out of it, obviously, without dying. And most people, you know, sadly, have trauma, certainly my audience. So that. And. And the. The idea that it can't be discussed in a way. So, like, if you bring that shit out and you lay it out there and, you know, obviously, you know, there was a twist at the end of that, you know, that it was relieving to me when I talked to my dad as well. But there is this idea that if you bring your trauma up and you do process it, that you do have a certain choice in what the impact really was when you separate it from the ptsd. And also, you don't have to be a victim. Like, there's something about speaking about trauma, if you're willing to find it in yourself, because I think those kind of things, you know, they break your brain into a sort of victim mode and that, you know, then you kind of look at your life, you know, and your choices through this. This trauma, that if you can lighten that up somehow. And obviously, some traumas is horrendous. But. But I do think that giving it some air, that, you know, people who never talk about it can. Can, you know, have that weird kind of crying, laughing thing.
- [29:15]
Jim Gaffigan
Yeah. All right, let me ask you this question. So, I mean, I've known you for a long time.
- [29:21]
Marc Maron
Yeah. So long.
- [29:22]
Jim Gaffigan
Yeah. So long. What is. So you're 61, 62. What are you?
- [29:28]
Marc Maron
Easy.
- [29:30]
Jim Gaffigan
So.
- [29:30]
Marc Maron
But.
- [29:31]
Jim Gaffigan
All right, let's pick an 8 62. What is in September. What does 25, 35, 45 year old Marc Maron think of? On a couple things, the success you've achieved, whether it be the podcast, the acting career, you know, the. You know, the.
- [29:57]
Marc Maron
You mean the stuff that happened to you at 40?
- [29:59]
Jim Gaffigan
No, no. But what does. Do you sometimes look back at? Like, what. What does. You know, but you and I also, we, we connected on this anger thing. Like, I. People probably don't.
- [30:13]
Marc Maron
But I was just like, just a simmering cauldron of rage when he was younger, very frustrated.
- [30:21]
Jim Gaffigan
And so. But some of it is.
- [30:23]
Marc Maron
But like, I was always like. And I was just sort of like, that guy's gonna bust.
- [30:29]
Jim Gaffigan
And I was just, I just was the guy like, he's gonna murder someone. And I did, but I wasn't caught.
- [30:39]
Marc Maron
No, no.
- [30:41]
Jim Gaffigan
But the thing is, is, I mean, some of it is just a compliment of like, it's so apparent that you've done work on yourself and you've kind of done this. You know, you've worked and made progress and independent of your art developing, you've developed as a human being. But like, what would these earlier versions, what is. I mean, because I remember when you were doing your podcast, we were in the Bell House and it was Eugene Mirman's festival and you were, you were angry, Mark, and you're like, this is all bullshit. And, And I remember, and it was maybe within a year and your podcast was just had taken off, but like, would that guy be able to understand the work that you've done on yourself and independent of your success, or would he be like, yeah, that guy's fake?
- [31:33]
Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah, that guy's bullshit? No, because, like, it's weird and I think I have talked about this publicly a bit, is that I really don't think that I saw comedy as a career. Right. I don't think I got into it because I was looking to have a career in comedy. I have no foresight or capacity for planning or. I really thought that I just wanted to be a comedian. I didn't do it to get rich. I did it because I wanted to have the space to own the space and express who I was. And I really think that my whole journey as a comic was to become a whole person. I don't know why I chose this. You know, I got it. I think I got to. I kind of know my mom used to embarrass me a lot. Like, my mom was like an embarrassing person because, you know, she was, you know, very, you know, beautiful and Vain. And she had an eating disorder. And, you know, she would complicate. You know, you go to a restaurant with her, and she, like, you know, would be like, do you make a pizza without the dough? You know, like, it's so, like. And it was. It was never ending. You know, it was embarrassing. And I think that, like, I lived through that, and I picked the most, potentially. I think I wanted to transcend embarrassment and own myself somehow on this stage. It wasn't because I'm going to be an entertainer. I'm like, this is how I'm going to become me. This is a funny story. I just want to tell it about my mother, because I think I'm probably harder on her than I am my father, or I don't show the good side of her, the gift that she gave me. And I think I told this story once on stage, but, like, when I was probably 11 or 12 years old, my family was on a ski trip with another, you know, another family, the Leffenfelds. And we were up in Colorado skiing, the two families, and we were all at dinner. I swear to God, it's gotta be 11 years old. And somehow the adults start talking like, I think it was Bobby Leffenfeld. She said, so if you were stuck on a mountain and, you know, you had to eat your partner, you know, like, what part would you eat first? And my mother, I just remember, she goes, I guess the penis. I'm used to that. And there's so much to unpack.
- [34:15]
Jim Gaffigan
And you are 11.
- [34:16]
Marc Maron
Look, I'm 11. And I'm like, what is that even? You know, it's just like, I couldn't even manage my. My head exploded. It was embarrassing, but, you know, compelling. And there's a lot I didn't know about the world. But. But my point is to speak to how I feel now is that I think this journey. Because I don't think there's a lot of difference between me talking to you, me talking on the podcast, and me as a comic. Other than structure and decision making, I think I improvise everything until it becomes something. And on the podcast, I'm talking freely, and now I'm talking freely. So I don't. There's just different frequencies of me, but there's no character that ever evolved, which fucking annoys me because I see guys, and I think you have a stage Persona. Do you think that?
- [35:09]
Jim Gaffigan
I mean. Yeah, in a certain way. I don't know if this is an accusation, if this is a subtle. You know, these. Yeah, these college kid comedians, they wear Khakis?
- [35:30]
Marc Maron
No, no. What I'm saying is, like, I always envied them. Like, how do I be a Persona? You know, like, can I just have a character that is kind to me? And I guess it is, but I guess the point is, I think what's happened through the arc of the podcast and through, you know, my commitment to comedy as my primary form of expression that I have, you know, arrived at myself. So there's a comfort there. And, you know, I think that at different ages, to address the question, I think I was who I was at that time. I don't know that I could have seen me like this, you know, because I watched this documentary about me, and there's footage of me, you know, and this is a documentary that goes all through the grief and through losing Lynn and through, you know, my home life and everything else. And the cringiest part to me and watching it was the footage of me doing stand up in 1988. Because I was angry, I was cocky. I had all this swagger that I thought was like, yeah, I'm doing it. But it's so pathetic because I was so young, and I just, you know, took on this disposition that wasn't genuine. I could see me in there. So I really think at any given point in time, if you would have asked me these things, I was not planning on this type of success. I had no plan to have any sort of success. I had things I wanted to do that never seemed to manifest, and I didn't know why, because I didn't have any sort of control of my emotions or my talent. And I just think I just grew up. So I think that at any given point in time, when you tell me at these ages, I believe at those points in time, I thought I was pretty grown up, too.
- [37:11]
Jim Gaffigan
Yeah. I mean, you know, you talk about this. That makes sense, no? Yeah, because when you talk about, like, going into standup, you didn't think, like, oh, this is gonna be a career. Cause there is. Like, when I started standup, it's. And I sometimes will articulate this to younger comedians. It's like, There was no YouTube. There was. Comedy Central was kind of a thing. There was no. There was just clubs, and there was just clubs. There was no. And, you know, when we were talking about your last special, and, like, that was a couple years ago, and there was essentially George Carlin, and, you know, Bill Cosby was taking a break at that point. And then. And, you know, you know, Jerry was huge, but it was like, it was just club, and there Was not. It was not this middle class at a minimum existence. And now there is, you know, as big as Nate, but like it's a great living. But like when we were starting, we.
- [38:23]
Marc Maron
Were building a theme park by the way.
- [38:25]
Jim Gaffigan
But when we. But when we started it was. I used to describe it is you would. Because it was after this 80s comedy boom collapsed, it was essentially going into phonograph repairmen as an occupation. It didn't make sense. And it wasn't like, oh, I force, you know, saw that it was gonna, you know, that cable was going to, you know, simultaneously, you know, it ended up being a joke on the Simpsons how bad standup was. But it was an outlet. That was my first TV appearance was on Caroline's. But I had no expectation that, you know, satellite radio would send you a check every, you know, a couple months.
- [39:11]
Marc Maron
When those things first started coming, like when I got an email from SoundExchange.
- [39:15]
Jim Gaffigan
Yeah.
- [39:16]
Marc Maron
I'm like, this is a racket. Who the is SoundExchange? And I talked to another comic. I'm like, dude, you better sign up because they got money for you there. I'm like, really? And all of a sudden you get these residuals from satellite. I'm like, wow. I remember living on the Lower east side and trying to live in New York, 1989. And I'd have to drive up to New England to do one nighters to make a living. And you'd get a $400 check and you'd be like, fuck yes. Oh, I'm set, I'm good. And it was great. Yeah, because you know, just that. That kind of scrapping, you know, for a living and. But do being paid for doing this was just, it was, it was so amazing. And like when I first started doing like, you know, selling out clubs and doing door deals because I couldn't. I never understood, you know, how the is Jake Johansson surviving. You know, I'm getting, you know, 1350 for 35 shows. You know. And then like now when I do a door deal, I'm like, holy shit. They were fucking doing well. I didn't even understand that part of the business, like how to make money that you earned as a comic. So. But it was, it was different because you could only do, you know, you could only.
- [40:38]
Jim Gaffigan
There was not an expectation. It was either. You either became a writer on.
- [40:43]
Marc Maron
I didn't even know that those were the smart guys, the guys I started with. Like, there's only fucking 10 of you guys that make a living really at any given time. Like back then like, you know, there was, like, hundreds of comics, but there was, like, five that were, you know, comedy stars and were selling out tickets. The rest of us were just sort of like, oh, someday, you know, and. But the smart guys that I start with, like, Sklar, John Groff, you know, a lot of them was Lou Schneider. You remember Lou Schneider. Like, you know, these guys were like, they did comedy for, like, five years, and they're like, we're going to be writers. I'm like, is that an option? What are you going to write? You know, like, the whole idea of getting into TV writing, which is just smart call. If young comics talk to me, it's like, what's a career in comedy? Like, well, if you can write a joke, don't do this, because this is a fucking long shot. But I never wanted to write, so here I am.
- [41:40]
Jim Gaffigan
So you all right? So you shot this? Yeah, it worked out all right.
- [41:46]
Marc Maron
Worked out all right in the last quarter, dude.
- [41:49]
Jim Gaffigan
So let's talk. So you shot this at Bam?
- [41:52]
Marc Maron
Oh, yeah.
- [41:53]
Jim Gaffigan
And you talked about the wall before I saw it. It is beautiful.
- [41:57]
Marc Maron
I was obsessed with it, man. I was obsessed with, like, we were gonna do it at Town Hall. No disrespect, but, you know, we were booked. And I'm like, yeah, I did bleach the dark there, but it's too wide and there's too many people. Like, I'm good. Like, you know, my cap for, like, a really good show is about 900. Really? You know, I can do 11, 12. And then it starts to. You know, it gets a little far out for me to think I can be intimate or, you know, I can do it, but it's not as satisfying, you know, when I do arenas like this. I don't know why you guys do those.
- [42:25]
Jim Gaffigan
So I don't do. I mean, I. I have.
- [42:29]
Marc Maron
Don't worry about it.
- [42:30]
Jim Gaffigan
If someone.
- [42:37]
Marc Maron
But. So I said, I want a smaller theater tonight. And we go look at Bam Harvey. The Harvey. And I walked into that place. I'm like. It was magic. I was like, this is. This is it. I looked at that wall. That's the real wall at Bam that was on the special. And I saw that wall, and I'm like, that's the whole show. That wall looks like a Rothko painting. That wall's got a history. It's got. You know, it survived. It's like. Because they. I don't know if you've been to the Bam Harvey, but they never restored it. They just kind of maintain it in its state of, you know, Decay. And so it's got this ruin, like, quality. And I was just enamored with it. And I was like, we've got to do it here. And then my manager's like, it's the most expensive theater in the country. And I'm like, I don't care. Take it out of my pay. It's gotta be here. And the guy who's the production designer, this was the interesting thing, and this is something that I learned from Rodrigo, the guy, the cinematographer who did Killers of the Flower Moon. Yeah. Anyone know his name? Yeah, Rodrigo Prieto. I interviewed that guy. He's a cinematographer. And the amount of work that a cinematographer does to make what they make, like, this guy was shooting, you know, the native characters and the white characters in that movie, the Scorsese movie, with different lenses for a different effect. He designed the effect that he used for the camera for the white people on a type of technique that they were using in Europe to colorize black and white pictures. He wanted that look to represent colonialism. And then with the natives, he used natural lighting and all this. And you watch that movie, and you're gonna walk out of that, and you're gonna be like, this is okay. And. Right. And this guy is like, you know, going deep. So, like, now I'm like, I gotta rewatch that movie again. So the point that. The reason I'm saying that is because those. That's the genius. I mean, you have to assume maybe on a poetic or mystical or some other level that you're absorbing that. I doubt it. But, you know, it's in there. So the production designer, we're. The first time we're at the theater, it's empty. I'm like, the wall, right? And he's like, yeah, the wall. And we're sitting there, and they don't even have a stage at the Harvey. The. The audience, like, ends on the floor. And we. We did build a platform, but we're standing this empty theater at this kind of decaying vaudeville house. And I'm like, that wall. And he's like, yeah, the wall. And I'm like, what are you thinking, dude? And he says, I'm thinking Kensuke. And I'm like, I don't even know what you're talking about. So I Google Kensuke, and it's this ancient Japanese art of restoring ceramics using, you know, gold filling to make it light alive again and make it a new piece. And I'm looking at him, reading the description. I look at him like, yeah, go with it. Yeah. I don't know what your plan is, but do it. And so that effect of those lines is that's where it comes from. And he thought he had seen the set and he think, I think it speaks to where you are and the arc of your career and the restoration and kind of putting yourself back together and whatnot. And I'm like, I fucking love it. And then, like, even on the wall, like in the last two bits, the trauma bit and the grief bit, he fades up those lines onto that old ass wall. And I'm like, this is great and no one's gonna fucking know. And so now I talk about it constantly. Cause I'm like, you guys, there's some poetry in that shit, man.
- [46:16]
Jim Gaffigan
That's. I mean, you know. Cause you know, we were talking about this backstage, you know, like, the thing with a comedy special is you can only ruin it from a production standpoint. But I think that that totally enhanced it.
- [46:31]
Marc Maron
Well now, like, I'm like, what the fuck are these guys? You know, between us, like, you know, I came, like, that's why I love hbo. When we were younger, that was it, man. Right, The HBO Hour. Like, you know, only Robert Klein did those. You know, I did a couple Netflix specials. And, you know, algorithmically, I'm not their thing anymore. So when Nina at HBO was like, you know, of course we'll do it. I'm like, oh, my God, it's an HBO special.
- [46:58]
Jim Gaffigan
Oh, gosh. Yeah.
- [46:59]
Marc Maron
Yeah. And I love it. I love it because they know how to treat. It's a curated house, you know, hbo, you're gonna be on, you know, you're gonna be on the main page for more than three days and then have a hard time finding it or telling where your family can watch it. So. But my. What I was gonna say is, like, what's with these fucking guys doing 34 minute specials? No, like the old Jewish. The new version of the old Jew. What is with these kids? They do a special, it's 34 minutes. They shoot at the Cellar. What the fuck is that?
- [47:28]
Jim Gaffigan
No, that's like a tape you use.
- [47:30]
Marc Maron
To get work at other clubs.
- [47:33]
Jim Gaffigan
All right, so let me. All right, let me ask you.
- [47:36]
Marc Maron
We do hours.
- [47:37]
Jim Gaffigan
We do hours. No, I totally. I totally agree with that.
- [47:40]
Marc Maron
We're old school.
- [47:41]
Jim Gaffigan
There is also the belief that people with the streaming has caused people. They won't want. They'll watch it in chapters, right?
- [47:50]
Marc Maron
Yeah, but that's a lie. This idea that, like, you know, we gotta make it, you know, people can't pay attention.
- [47:54]
Jim Gaffigan
Sometimes people put their closer at the top of specials.
- [47:57]
Marc Maron
No, but like, it's like this generalization that people are no longer able to pay attention because the person who is saying that is part of the structure that broke their brains is. It's, it's, you know, my people, my audience can pay attention. I mean, who are they talking about? You know what I mean? It's like if the people want to watch it, they're going to watch it. Like, I've never been in a situation where I've been watching a movie on TV and, you know, 12 minutes go by, I'm like, I don't think I can get through this. I just, I can't pay attention anymore. What the fuck are they talking about?
- [48:29]
Jim Gaffigan
All right, so let me. This is. What do you think is gonna happen in the next five years in standup?
- [48:37]
Marc Maron
Well, sadly, my belief about podcasts and standup, I think what's happening because of the fragmentation of media and the kind of, you know, contraction of mainstream media and gatekeepers, which some people are like, good, they're gone. I'm like, is it. So what happens ultimately with social media platforms and the kind of malignant spread of podcasting is that people will adapt to anything. And if that becomes the primary world of entertainment, people will eventually just adapt to it. So what has quality and what is elevated and what is produced properly will just seem unnecessary. So I think a lot of what's happening in stand up in terms of crowd work clips and just gunning for the hits so you can get a job where people know you from a three minute piece where you talk shit to a couple about their kid and then you can fill a room and do more of that. I think it lowers the bar for everybody. So I think what will happen is that well produced, well crafted, you know, thoughtful people that, that have chops and a real, you know, entertaining, grounded, you know, high quality stuff, well, it just will become more and more unimportant. And it's a, it's a sad thing because who wants everything to be shit?
- [50:06]
Jim Gaffigan
Yeah, but, you know, there is also the. No, there is, you know, it's, you know, people. I believe that people value their time even more than their money. And so like those clip, you know, like those people that do the crowd work or make fun of someone's shirt and all that and they don't have the stuff. They will, they'll go once, but they won't go back and see that person again. I mean, I have a larger theory. I also.
- [50:35]
Marc Maron
Yeah, but then the next one who does that, they'll go see that.
- [50:39]
Jim Gaffigan
I think people mature and they're like, all right, so I was tricked into that. But I want to, I want to.
- [50:47]
Marc Maron
See Martin Baron enjoy a grown up hour of stand up comedy.
- [50:51]
Jim Gaffigan
Well, I think people want an experience. They want to be, you know, it's like you want, you know, like there's the super entertaining movies that you want to do when you're folding laundry, but then there's the movies that you, you want to make you. I want to believe you want to ask.
- [51:06]
Marc Maron
I really want to believe you. But boy, people are dumb.
- [51:13]
Jim Gaffigan
I think that there's going to be the flavor of the month all the time, but in the end, people are like, all right, we've got, we're going to go out to a show once a month. Yeah, we gambled on that flavor of the month. Now this time we're gonna go to something where we know there's gonna be consistency. I actually think that a live standup show from a good stand up comedian is way more consistent than the odds of going to a movie theater and watching a movie. You know what I mean?
- [51:50]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [51:51]
Jim Gaffigan
And that's why I think all comedians should be. Every show should be sold out.
- [51:55]
Marc Maron
That's. Cause the, that's because what they're putting in movie theaters is largely fucking dreck too. But he's. All right.
- [52:04]
Jim Gaffigan
All right. This is from Linda from Belmore. Mark, now that you're ending your podcast, what are some things you're looking to do more of?
- [52:15]
Marc Maron
I think nothing. No, I, you know, look, I don't know what it, what the future holds in terms of, you know, I do know that I do talk and I like to talk so that, you know, it does open up options for me because, you know, but what the. But wtf, you know, in and of itself is the product of the work of me and my producer, Brendan McDonald and, you know, and we. It is what it is and it will be what it is as a body of work forever. And in terms of like, I just would like to kind of like get out and see who I am and what I want to do. Like, I played some more music lately and obviously I'm not looking to change careers, but I would just like to have some, you know, kind of untethered freedom to see what my creativity really wants to do. And, you know, I'm gonna have to do some more acting because they picked up stick, which is exciting. But I will add to that if they shoot it anywhere but la, I'm gonna be fucking miserable. And like, I would like, to sort of figure out, you know, how to do that better. I'd like to figure out how to do, you know, music better and have. Find joy in that. And, you know, I imagine comedy will keep evolving. So I think I'm gonna do what I do just with a little more, you know, freedom of responsibility.
- [53:59]
Jim Gaffigan
So when the Daily Beast does an article about this special and the headline is, marc Maron is a Swifty.
- [54:08]
Marc Maron
I just did a cover of that song at Largo with a band last week, and, like, it was really vulnerable and fucked up. Yeah, no, I think she's great because I was like. I played that. I was like, I'm gonna do that song, and it was really sad.
- [54:24]
Jim Gaffigan
This is a question from Jill. Does the title of the special reflect an embracing of your panic? Because as a longtime fan, I think you seem less panic than ever, which I would agree.
- [54:40]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Because I think it's an exorcism. Like, I am. I am kind of panicked. And that's sort of, like, the primary sort of focus of my work on me in that, you know, like, I have this. This brain. I have, like, I think I was born with fomo, and, like, I think I came out of the womb and thought, like, you know, what are those guys doing? You know? And there's always sort of an urgency to everything, and I've got to kind of reel that in. I am less panicked, but that only comes through a certain level of acceptance of myself and, you know, the tragedy of the world and life and. And I think through that, I can get past it.
- [55:32]
Jim Gaffigan
Okay, this is a question from Mike. Who the hell do I listen to now? Love stick.
- [55:42]
Marc Maron
Yes, people love stick. It's kind of a nice, sweet show. Well, you know, Dax is doing me, so you can try to make that adjustment. I'll be around, you know, listen to the old ones. You know, shit doesn't change.
- [56:04]
Jim Gaffigan
There was no name on this. Essentially, they're like, you coward. We are excited to see where your career goes and suspect that you want to direct.
- [56:14]
Marc Maron
Yeah, I think I do, but, like, it's very overwhelming. Yeah. Because I've kind of put the. The. What is it? The ball in motion, the wheels in motion, whatever adage. My buddy Sam Lipsite, one of my dear friends, wrote a book that I optioned, and we've done several drafts of a script which he writes. And then I go, like, I don't know about this. I helped him shape it, but we've got a pretty good script after five or six drafts, and we've got a Production company that wants to do it, and we're starting to sort of make a budget, and the plan is that I will direct that movie. So that's going to happen.
- [56:55]
Jim Gaffigan
That's great. All right. Kristen asks, on your creative journey, I have to assume there have been times when you don't feel like getting back on stage. What's the process of getting yourself back up there?
- [57:12]
Marc Maron
Well, you know, no one really wants to go to the gym, so what gets you there? It's. To me, it's, like, ingrained in me forever, especially from when we were starting out in New York, where. You gotta get up there every night, man.
- [57:29]
Jim Gaffigan
Yeah, Yeah.
- [57:30]
Marc Maron
I gotta try to do five shows a night running around.
- [57:33]
Jim Gaffigan
And do you feel like it kind of. I feel like it kind of balances me. Like, sometimes if I haven't gone up for a couple of nights, my wife would be like, get out of here.
- [57:43]
Marc Maron
Well, right. Yeah, I don't have that. So my cats are never like. Well, they're always kind of like, why are you here? So. No, it's. It's. It's. It's a. It's a habit because. And it's a good habit, you know, even like, after, before every special or after every special, I'm like, I think that's it. Whatever, you know, I don't got it. I think I'm done.
- [58:09]
Jim Gaffigan
It's Ralph Malf.
- [58:10]
Marc Maron
Yeah. What is he. What's that?
- [58:12]
Jim Gaffigan
Well, Ralph Malfunction. I still got it. I still got it.
- [58:15]
Marc Maron
Yeah, that moment. Yeah, I still got it. But, like, what happens is, like, usually there's a half hour or so that, you know, I don't. Doesn't make this special. There's a bit about dating a borderline personality that has been on the back burner for several specials. And God damn, I love that bit. But. But so ultimately, it's just. It's what I do, you know, it's like eating. So I don't like not getting on stage because you start to. If you don't stay on stage and you know this. That what happens is your relationship with an audience starts to, you know, get further away. Like, if you don't keep your chops in place in terms of being in front of an audience, you will get a fear or you will get rusty, and that's a reality. And also, I like that moment of discovery because I do it, I think, differently than Jim, where most of my writing happens when I have an idea that's funny enough to get laughs, and then I watch it grow through being on stage. I literally corner myself. I'll get up there, I'll do the idea, and then I'll wait for the rest of it to unfold and be delivered to me. So that process is very compelling and exciting to me. Like, I. There was two tags in that special that came, like four days. It came the gig before the special, like, five days before. Like, I kind of keep it fluid and the punchline and like, I don't know where they come from, but I'm always happy when they arrive. And I guess when that stops, I'll stop. But, you know, the tag to the Charlie playing. You know, playing with Charlie and like, oh, shit. He likes to watch me play with the ball. And that. The line, it was a setup all the long all along. That. That came to me, like, three days before I had another punchline in there, but I knew it wasn't great. And so, like, the week before, whenever it was, when it was all been a setup, I'm like, oh, thank you. Thank you. That. That joke's finished now. And. And also the line that, you know, we annoyed the average American into fascism. That happened like, the week before the special. So I wait for them to be delivered. And that's a very exciting thing.
- [60:26]
Jim Gaffigan
You know, some would say that's the Holy Spirit.
- [60:35]
Marc Maron
Oh, boy. If you could get me over to Jesus, that'd be something. Dylan did it for a while. Why not? I could do it.
- [60:42]
Jim Gaffigan
Yeah.
- [60:42]
Marc Maron
Why not? Yeah, let's just do more.
- [60:44]
Jim Gaffigan
That would be a great hour, right?
- [60:46]
Marc Maron
My gospel hour. That would be wild to do a whole hour. Like, really not letting on that, like, it's an act and just do a Christian hour.
- [60:57]
Jim Gaffigan
Just do it. It's not like you announce it on 92nd Street. Why?
- [61:03]
Marc Maron
It would take me a lot to.
- [61:05]
Jim Gaffigan
This is. This is an interesting one. Do you ever worry about saying something that would completely alienate you from your fan base?
- [61:14]
Marc Maron
Yeah, I fight it all the time.
- [61:17]
Jim Gaffigan
But some of it is. There is. I imagine there's a balance of. Some of it is the shock and awe. Right. I mean, you make fun of a character who's like, is that too much for you? But, like, every comedian has a little bit of. I like that. That made you uncomfortable. Right.
- [61:36]
Marc Maron
I think a lot of them. I don't think every one of them, but those of us who are, you know, weren't, you know, properly loved and are full of anger, you know, we will kind of make it difficult to love us at times. So, yeah, I'm afraid of that all the time, but you get afraid of it. You know, in all parts of life now, you know, because, you know, everybody can say whatever they want about you, but I do fight with that. And I don't know if it's necessary anymore. Like, I used to do a joke about that, like where I'm like, yeah, that's sort of what I do. I push the audience away to see if I can pull them back in and then push them away, see if I can pull them back in. It's a little dynamic I call dad and. But I think it would be good if I let that go because when I watch this special, both of these last two specials have been very active and very conscious. The last three homages to the people that had an influence on me, you know, because I think. And I just saw this recently, that guy, the babysitter character is definitely Rick Shapiro, right?
- [62:45]
Jim Gaffigan
I mean, I don't know, but you.
- [62:46]
Marc Maron
Know, not that he did that, but do you remember Rick's kind of thing?
- [62:52]
Jim Gaffigan
But the babysitter, the character, Sarge?
- [62:55]
Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah. You know, that kind of angry, kind of like intentional.
- [62:59]
Jim Gaffigan
Oh, yeah, no, it's like Rick Shapiro.
- [63:02]
Marc Maron
Used to do this bit. Dude. Oh, fucking Rick, man. You remember Rick, right? Yeah, he used to do this bit where he'd do these characters. He'd do this AA character where he'd go, what was the guy's name? My name is Ray and I'm an alcoholic. So I'm banging away on my eldest this morning and I realize, you know, Ray doesn't feel good about Ray when he's doing that. So I call my sponsor who keeps me sober, and I say, hey, I'm banging away on my eldest right now and I don't feel good about myself. And my sponsor said, did you drink today? And I got no, I did not. He goes, then you're a winner. Yeah, yeah.
- [63:40]
Jim Gaffigan
Yeah.
- [63:43]
Marc Maron
Fucking Rick, man.
- [63:47]
Jim Gaffigan
This is really interesting. Do you think the best therapist could make it as a comedian? Do you think the best therapist. Do you think the best comedians could make it as therapists?
- [64:03]
Marc Maron
No and no. You know, Well, I think there probably is. Like, I don't know because like, you know, comics are pretty, you know, self contained things and, you know, they process things publicly, but I don't know how, generally speaking, how great they are listening. And a therapist, you know, generally the ones that are, you know, in the racket to, to kind of like get their own shit together, you know, generally think they're kind of funny, but they're not that funny. And I got nothing at the therapist. I went back to one recently, but. So I would say no and no. It's a thoughtful question, but I used to get mad when people would be like, are you just like, you know, you're doing. You're getting your therapy on stage? I'm like, no, I'm not.
- [64:59]
Jim Gaffigan
But it is cathartic though, right?
- [65:01]
Marc Maron
Yeah, I know, but that, but this.
- [65:03]
Jim Gaffigan
Is this sort of between seeking therapy through performance.
- [65:06]
Marc Maron
Well, there are these fucks that, you know, like, these people, like, you know, the sort of, you know, tribalized, you know, bro manosphere culture of comics. The edgelords who use all the words, you know, they like. I've seen criticism of comics. It's like you're just whining. I'm like, yeah, that's all of comedy. What do you think we're doing? Yeah, we're whining, but, you know, we're hiding it in something.
- [65:38]
Jim Gaffigan
It is. No, that's a really good point. I mean, it's so often it's tragedy plus time, Right? So it's like something bothers you and then you figure out how to make it funny.
- [65:49]
Marc Maron
Right, Right.
- [65:49]
Jim Gaffigan
Just bizarre.
- [65:50]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Yeah. You can't just go on stage and go like, I'm sad.
- [66:02]
Jim Gaffigan
Okay. On the pod Sarah Sherman episode Genius, you told us your Albuquerque ice cream anecdote.
- [66:11]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [66:12]
Jim Gaffigan
What flavor? What was it? If you had a Ben and Jerry's flavor, what would it be called?
- [66:21]
Marc Maron
I used to do a joke that I was so proud of about Ben and Jerry's. How much chicken they put in ice cream. You know, it's like fudge chunks, chocolate chip, bacon, cheddar, goldfish and pennies. Like, I draw the line of credit currency. I'm not going to. So I used to do just funny jokes. I used to do them, I don't know, like the, the ice cream that I had in the car that was on the verge of melting. I think it's like, since I'm doing the plant based thing, they do a pretty good non dairy. So I think it was non dairy Cherry Garcia and non dairy, you know, fudge brownie. If I, if I had an ice cream, like, I. I am pretty, you know, I like pretty, like simple things. I don't like it to be too confusing, you know, like to me, like really the perfect kind of like satisfying ice cream. If you're like a recovering drug addict who needs something. Is that peanut butter cup? That shit? Are you fucking crazy, man? When you like, it's just peanut butter ice cream, which is pieces of peanut butter cup in there, and then when you like pull out like, almost a whole peanut butter cup. You're like, oh, fuck, yeah.
- [67:32]
Jim Gaffigan
Right?
- [67:37]
Marc Maron
It's like, the best. I'd have to think about my ice cream, but sadly, it would probably be pretty simple, you know, just like, you know. You know, fucking vanilla with, like, you know, just globs of caramel and maybe a peanut butter cup or two. That would be pretty good. Carvel's pretty satisfying, too. Oh, God damn it.
- [68:00]
Jim Gaffigan
I think we have time for one more question. Okay. You talked to Scott Frank about your love of 70s Westerns. Would you ever want to write and star in a Western like McCabe and Mrs. Miller?
- [68:18]
Marc Maron
It's hard to pull off a Western right now, you know, in general, but it'd be interesting, you know, like. Like. Like the surprising swagger of the Jew cowboy. I rewatched the Frisco Kid recently with Harrison Ford and Gene Wilder. It's fucking great. But, like, I. I actually had this thought recently, like, because I do, Like, I. I do kind of affect a certain ruggedness, you know, I think. And, like, I had this moment where I'm like, yeah, I kind of, like, you know, I used to think, like, I'm kind of a cowboy. And then, like, I realized, like, I don't know, I think I'm more of a rodeo clown, you know, just, like, trying to distract bulls of my own making. See that. See, that joke, I think, is a solid joke, but to one guy. But that. But that validates it. It does, and I'll fucking commit to that joke. Like the anxiety joke, I don't think it's finished yet. But the idea that you're not depressed, it's just you peak on anxiety, and then your brain decides, let's just be sad. It's like the resting zone of anxiety before you gear up again for the next one. I think that's hilarious.
- [69:39]
Jim Gaffigan
I think it's funny, too.
- [69:40]
Marc Maron
Doesn't get a laugh. It doesn't stop me from committing to it. I think that's the one liability of doing it the way I do it. It's like I'm going to lock into this thing, just, oh, my God. Just keep doing it until it turns funny.
- [69:58]
Jim Gaffigan
Well, it's working, but. So the special drops tomorrow. You have the bad guys, too.
- [70:12]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [70:13]
Jim Gaffigan
You have a movie also, right?
- [70:17]
Marc Maron
Well, I got a little part in that Bruce Springsteen movie, Deliver Me From Nowhere.
- [70:22]
Jim Gaffigan
Oh, wow.
- [70:22]
Marc Maron
Yeah. And I got that in memoriam, but I don't know where that's going to end up. And the. The documentary, I think, got a. A distributor. Yeah, it should be in Theaters and in October. But. But the Bruce Springsteen movie was funny because I feel like I'm not like this. I always go into overtime. So you end the show and I'm like, I got some more stories. It was funny.
- [70:49]
Jim Gaffigan
Who do you play in the Bruce Springs scene?
- [70:50]
Marc Maron
Well, this is a funny story because, you know, I just shot that indie where I'm the lead, you know.
- [70:54]
Jim Gaffigan
Yeah.
- [70:55]
Marc Maron
And I don't have a big head. I'm not a diva. But, like, I just spent a month shooting a movie that was in every scene. And I. And Scott Cooper, who I love, is a great director, you know, he wanted me to be the. In the Bruce Springsteen movie. But it's a very small speaking part, you know, and I get done with the. With the. With the lead role, and then I come back and, like. And I got to go to Jersey in a few weeks to do this little part. And I was like, what the fuck am I even doing this for? It's like, there's hardly any lines. I'm on the phone, my manager. It's like, they could get any actor to do this. It's like entry level acting job. Like, all of a sudden I'm like, I just did a lead, you know, But I took it to another level, you know, I. Because my manager's like, well, if you want to get out of it, we can get out of it. I'm like, I just don't fucking. It's like, it's not. I can't stand out in that part, you know? And I texted Scott Cooper, the director. Who the fuck does that? I text the director of the movie. I go, hey, man, just looking over that script again. Does it seem like there's a lot for me to do here? That's one of those things where it's like, don't hit send. You know, the fuck was I thinking? So he texts back, it's like, hey, man, you know, you don't have to do it. I just thought it would be fun. We'll work together at some point. And I immediately go, no, no, no, I'll be. He's like, it's a pivotal part. But the funny thing about that part was it's a real guy. Chuck Pak, and he was the engineer that Bruce used for years. And, you know, the engineer is the guy that mixes. And we're trying to, you know, get the sound of Nebraska to match, you know, the cassette tape that eventually became the record. You know, they. They tried to capture that sound. It was a very difficult thing to transfer a cassette to. To A bandwidth of audio tape that would make it sound good. And my character actually is the guy that, you know, kind of figures it out, but. But during it, it's not a huge speaking part. And, you know, Bruce. The real Bruce Springsteen, it turned out it was really fun because we were shooting in the studio, and Bruce and John Landau as manager were actually at Video Village the whole fucking time. So real Bruce Springsteen is just outside the door when you're shooting this thing. And I had interviewed Bruce, so I kind of was like, hey, buddy. You know, he knew me. Remember me? So we could chat. But, like, going into it, you know, I. I said to Scott, I said, plotkin's a real guy, but, like, there's no footage of him, you know, so I don't know how to get into him, you know, as a person. And Scott's like, don't even fucking worry about it. And I'm like, all right. So I learned how to look like I was, you know, doing that. Yeah. You know, moving the things. This is my whole. But I did talk sometimes, right? So the first time that I talk, I have an exchange with Jeremy Strong. He goes, cut. And I'm nervous. You know, Bruce is out there, and I walk into Video Village, and Bruce goes, you're him. You're Chuck. Unbelievable. I'm like, well, that's a pleasant coincidence. Boss.
- [74:05]
Jim Gaffigan
You called him boss.
- [74:06]
Marc Maron
That's my panel story. I'm just working it out for when I do press on it. And also, I do think that it is unavoidable that that story about the locking the ice cream in the car will become a bit. It's unavoidable. So look forward to that. And I think, yeah, the just be funny thing might happen just be strictly entertaining.
- [74:31]
Jim Gaffigan
And the Christian special.
- [74:37]
Marc Maron
Between us and God's ears.
- [74:38]
Jim Gaffigan
Mark.
- [74:39]
Marc Maron
Huh?
- [74:41]
Jim Gaffigan
Mark the apostle. Thank you so much, everyone.
- [75:03]
Marc Maron
See, that was fun. Laughs and information and a couple of friends talking. That was recorded at the 92nd Street Y in New York City as part of their Craig Newmark Civic Life series. Hang out for a minute, folks. Hey, people. Today marks Jim Gaffigan's eighth appearance on wtf. For full Marin listeners, we posted a collection of Jim's earlier appearances from deep within the archives.
- [75:28]
Jim Gaffigan
Like, I have some jokes that I love that work in Brooklyn. Right? Like, they. I have. I have, like, 10 pages.
- [75:36]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [75:37]
Jim Gaffigan
Of New York City jokes that maybe work on Long Island.
- [75:40]
Marc Maron
Right.
- [75:41]
Jim Gaffigan
But, you know, the Bell House.
- [75:43]
Marc Maron
Sure.
- [75:43]
Jim Gaffigan
I love doing them at the Bell.
- [75:45]
Marc Maron
House, but they're not going out, too.
- [75:46]
Jim Gaffigan
They're not going Anywhere. They can't even. You know, I could do it maybe in the East Village.
- [75:50]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Not Ohio, though.
- [75:51]
Jim Gaffigan
No, no, no. They're not subway jokes.
- [75:54]
Marc Maron
But this book will speak to everybody because it's about food. And there is a chapter in there about your struggle with the blessing and the curse of the hot pockets bit and your struggle with food in general.
- [76:03]
Jim Gaffigan
Yeah, I would say. Yeah, there's. I mean, it's not kind of like, I'm gonna change my life. It's like, I like to eat. It's one of the celebration. Yeah. Like, I write. You know, I wrote it with my wife, and she was like, you should have a disclaimer at the end saying that, you know, that these thoughts are wrong.
- [76:20]
Marc Maron
Did you put that in?
- [76:21]
Jim Gaffigan
No, I didn't do that.
- [76:22]
Marc Maron
You don't feel it's wrong?
- [76:24]
Jim Gaffigan
Because, look, we're all grownups here. We know we're not supposed to have a Big Mac every day. I do. But you're not supposed to. Do you know what I mean?
- [76:33]
Marc Maron
I do know what you mean.
- [76:34]
Jim Gaffigan
I mean, look, I'm the guy who.
- [76:35]
Marc Maron
Gave you a coupon for free Pineapple Jerry's.
- [76:37]
Jim Gaffigan
That's right. And I'm the guy who took it.
- [76:39]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [76:39]
Jim Gaffigan
And put it in his pocket so he wouldn't lose it.
- [76:41]
Marc Maron
To get that bonus episode, sign up. For the full Marin, where we post two bonus episodes each week, just go to the link in the episode description or go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast. Here's some kind of guitar inspired by the sad ambient music that I have going on in my house to comfort my cats, which doesn't seem to be working. Boomer lives Monkey and La Fonda Cat angels everywhere.