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- [00:02]
James Holland
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- [00:25]
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- [01:24]
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- [02:05]
James Holland
Merry Christmas everyone. We're back with our Christmas specials. In the last episode, I shared the brutal story of Finnish fighting in Christmas 1939. John, I hope your 1944 story is any better. I mean, is it? Where does it take place?
- [02:18]
John McManus
Probably in the Hurkin Forest or at the edges of it. Maybe somewhere near the Belgian German border. And we tend to forget that fighting was still going on there periodically, even though the Battle of the Bulge was happening. And this incident is often described as happening in the context of the Battle of the Bulge, which may be technically incorrect because it could have happened a little farther north of there. It involves soldiers from the 8th Infantry Division, which is a unit that often described itself as participating in the Bulge, but doesn't actually get official credit. Okay, so we, we get that part of the out of the way. I don't think that's what's most important. What's most important is this, this very human incident that happens here. So there was a small German family, a mother and her son, the Vinckens, Elizabeth Finken and her son Carl. Elizabeth's husband was a baker who helped feed the German army. And he was gone, you know, from the family doing that as the, as the winter was unfolding. So she and the, and Carl took to a family cabin or it was least maybe owned by a friend of theirs, something like that. And they go to this cabin that's right there on the, the Belgian German border and they're hoping to hunker down for the winter and they've got some food and you know, they've got obviously their shelter and they have wood for the fire and all that stuff. So they're hoping to just be anonymous. But on Christmas Eve, as they told it, there was a knock at the door and you know, they, they go and they answer the door and there's three American soldiers, including one who's wounded and he's wounded badly enough that he certainly needs some, some medical attention and some help. So you know, these are German nationals, remember Elizabeth and Carl. And if they take in the American soldiers, they could get reprisals from, from the Nazi authorities. I mean that, that's aid and comfort to the enemy. It could be thought of as treason and who knows what that could mean for her husband working for the German, all that kind of thing. So you have a little bit of that dynamic happening. So they have to make a decision, what do we do with these guys? And also how are they going to communicate? The Americans didn't really speak German, they didn't speak English. But one of the American soldiers able to converse with Elizabeth in French, so she decides that she's going to take these guys in. And so the wounded soldier is put on Carl's bed. Carl again is the 12 year old and the other two are taking shelter in the house. And at this stage I think the Vincans are just hoping they'll be able to help these guys out. It'll all be quite anonymous and then, you know, the Americans will move on. At some point, a situation that could have created much more danger occurs a few hours later when there's another knock at the door. And you know, originally Elizabeth is thinking, oh, these are going to be more Americans. No, it's German soldiers. It's four German soldiers. And so who knows what the disposition of these German soldiers are going to be.
- [05:01]
Al Murray
Oh my God.
- [05:02]
John McManus
I mean, what's going to happen in terms of the, the Americans, the Germans seeing each other and what are the German soldier attitudes about the Vinin taking in the, the, the GIs and and all this. And so all of this plays out in, in really a few tense moments when Elizabeth has to assess the situation and, and the German soldiers, you know, what are they looking for? Just like what the Americans are looking for. They're looking for some, some warmth, some shelter, maybe a little bit of food. And of course, and they're, in their viewpoint, this is a home game. You know, this is people who are German like them, but now they're confronted with these GIs being right there. So it's a very, very tense situation. And by the testimony of Carl, who told the story for the rest of his life, he was the one who told it, not. Not Elizabeth, really. So we're seeing her through his eyes, by his testimony. She was a very quick thinker and very firm, had a very assertive personality. And she basically said to the, to the Germans, yes, we will take you in. And she had said this to the Americans, we'll take you in, but this is a truce area. In other words, you're not going to have your weapons. So think about that means from a soldier's point of view, right? I mean, it's like it's, you know, a tense few seconds communicating to this, to the Americans. So obviously the Germans have a real advantage. They can converse in German with the Vincans. And so imagine for, like, for the Americans, they're wondering, what are they talking about? Wouldn't you be a little worried? Like, are they plotting against us? What's in the offing? But, but the way she was, but she was able to communicate it very firmly. You guys will not have your weapons in this house. And so they agreed and they all stacked their weapons on a wood pile outside. So the, the Germans have rifles, I think maybe they've got a couple Panzer FAUs, maybe a couple burp guns, whatever. The Americans have their M1 Garands. You know, one of them might have had a Tommy gun, but, you know, in other words, they're having to really take that leap of faith. It's a little tense, as you might imagine, in, in this little cabin.
- [07:14]
Al Murray
Yeah.
- [07:14]
John McManus
So here you are with these seven guys who could very much be adversaries, one of whom is wounded badly enough that he's lying in Carl's bed kind of delirious. And, and by Carl's testimony, white as a sheet, which means he's lost blood. This is the source of some more tension. What's going to happen and how they're going to care for him. And what really helps diffuse the tension is that one of the German Soldiers had apparently attended medical school before joining the army. And Elizabeth communicated the situation to the German soldiers. When this guy hears about what's up with the wounded guy lying in the bed, he says, you know, I think I can help him. And so here's a German soldier going in to help this wounded American in this truce, and it's Christmas Eve. I would bet that all of these guys thought of themselves as Christians of one sort or another, I would think. And so when that happened, when. When the German soldier cares for this wounded American, that really helps the American mood quite a bit. These guys are like, okay, you know, they're not plotting against us. The guy is trying to help us, you know, whatever it be. So what ends up happening out of this whole thing? Apparently, the Vinckens got as much food as they could, including a. A. A chicken that Elizabeth had nicknamed Herman after a certain German air marshal and number two in the Nazi hierarchy. And the reason he was named Herman was she had total disdain for our buddy Herman Guring. But also this. They were fattening up this. This chicken as much as they possibly could. So they. They. They slaughter the prized chicken. They have potato soup. They have bread. The Germans have contributed some bread. I don't know that the Americans had any food on them that doesn't survive in the testimony. I would think maybe a K ration or two, but who knows? And they combine to create this Christmas Eve feast that everyone sits down to the table and just enjoys this meal during this nighttime truce that survived the rest of that evening and into the next day. And the wounded man stabilized thanks to the help of the German soldier. To a great extent, the wounded man stabilized. And then the two sides eventually went on their way without any bloodshed that this could happen, you know. And so that, as you might imagine, made a deep impression on these US Soldiers and, of course, on Carl. Carl saw his mother in a new light in a way. I mean, obviously, he'd always looked up to his mother, but to see her think that quickly and to have that force of personality to. To where she could basically lay down the rules for these guys in a situation that could have gone much differently. You know, it could have been very belligerent and to pull this off. And he also saw her warmth, you know, just. Just sheer human fellowship of, hey, we're just people, and we're really all. We have a lot more in common than otherwise, and let's sit down and just enjoy one another's company for a night, even though we can't always communicate all that. Well. So Carl wondered, that's the life, who these guys were on both sides, but especially the Americans. He eventually, after the war, immigrates to the US of all places, goes to Hawaii to become a baker there. He followed in his father's footsteps. His father survived the war too, by the way. So he has a bakery in. In Hawaii, and that's where he's living his life. And he always wondered if he could make contact with these three American soldiers. And so in 1973, he. He contributed to a Reader's Digest article. And of course, Reader's Digest, you guys know, had this massive circulation.
- [10:52]
Al Murray
Yeah, it used to be mega, didn't it?
- [10:54]
John McManus
Oh, it was. It was just unreal. And that. That's really what fuels a lot of Cornelius Ryan's work. He had the resources of Reader's Digest to track down so many people all over many different countries in the West. And so Carl had hoped that that would really link him up, but to no avail. It's not until, oh, I think about 20 years later, the show Unsolved Mysteries. I don't know if you guys remember this one, but it was. It was a show that aired in the US with a guy named Robert Stack. And. And it was. It was really a fascinating show on some levels and a bit sensationalistic, of course, but the unsolved mystery was who were these GIs and how can we link up Carl with them? And as it turned out, this did put him in touch with. With one of the veterans. Yeah, a gentleman who.
- [11:37]
Al Murray
He lived next door.
- [11:39]
John McManus
Right? They were right next door all the time, you know. No, he actually. The exact opposite end of the country. He lived in Maryland and his name was Blank. Carl flew all the way. This is in 1996 as a result of the show. What happened is that Blank was in a assisted living facility, and I guess one of his caregivers or somebody, you know, saw the. The episode and he remembered this veteran talking about a story just like that.
- [12:08]
Al Murray
Amazing.
- [12:09]
John McManus
And then they, you know, they put two and two together with the producers of the show, and Carl meets up with this. This. This guy, and. And then the guy told him, you know, your. Your mother saved my life. For Carl to hear that, he said, now I can die in peace. My mother's courage won't be forgotten. And it shows what goodwill can do. Oh, and I mean, how about that? You know, I mean, amazing. So, of course, this was just too good for Hollywood to pass up. And so there's a. There's actually a movie. It's called Silent Night, and it stars Hamilton. I don't know if you've seen that. But, yeah, she plays Elizabeth and. And of course, they take some license with it on probably in the movie. I think there's more tension maybe, than there really was in the True Incident. But it came out in O2. It's on YouTube, so it's super easy to see. And I didn't recognize anybody in it, but maybe it's been a while since I've seen it. So maybe not. Maybe I'm just having an oversight, but because I think.
- [13:02]
Al Murray
I think what's happened now, I remember reading it just going, yeah, that never happened.
- [13:05]
John McManus
And actually that's. I know. And you would think it never did. I know because. And actually it did happen. And yet there's another thing, too, I wanted to mention, and I don't know about this at all. I'm just relating it. I wonder. I wonder about it. So I'll just tell you guys this. There was another guy named Ralph Hill who served in the 99th Division, and of course, that unit was heavily involved in the Battle of Bulge on Elsenborne Ridge and. And all that. So he said. He claimed he wrote a story in the Checkerboard, which was their Veterans association newsletter, an amazing publication, by the way, that had all these great firsthand accounts for years and years. And in one of them that I found many years ago, he claimed that he was part of a group that had a very similar experience, that they had gone into a. Into a home in a cabin or whatever with a. He said was a Belgian woman and the German soldiers had come to. And that she had enforced a truce, that they had put their weapons aside for the night. And, And I don't know about the veracity of that. I've tried to track it down more and unsuccessfully. I don't know. May he be read the. The Reader's Digest story and then conflated it to his own experience or something. I. I don't know. But it's possible that something like that could have happened more than once, I guess, is my point.
- [14:22]
Al Murray
You see, this is.
- [14:23]
James Holland
This is really interesting. Amazing, because, you know, one of the sort of contested bits of First World War history that always comes around at Christmas is the Christmas trees to play football. And there's people who say. There's people who say that never happened. And there's other people say that definitely, that definitely did happen. And there's a memorial now, isn't there, Jim? And there's, there's. There's a lot of. There's a lot of rg Bargy.
- [14:44]
Al Murray
Yes. Near Plug Street.
- [14:45]
John McManus
Exactly.
- [14:45]
James Holland
But a lot of rgbaji between the.
- [14:47]
Al Murray
Sort of between and Hill 60 and all that.
- [14:49]
James Holland
Different factions of First World War history, people saying, ah, it definitely didn't happen. But here we have an actual. I mean, this is, it's an extraordinary story, isn't it?
- [15:00]
Al Murray
Yes, it really is.
- [15:02]
John McManus
It is. And it's corroborated by, you know, the gi. Yeah. And, and by the Carl Vincken, the, the kid who's part of this. I mean, it'd be interesting to get the GE German soldiers perspective too. I, I don't know we ever had that. Yeah, yeah.
- [15:15]
James Holland
I mean, the, the IMDb listening is in a cabin on a World War II front, a German mom with a young son mediates a truce between three German and three American soldiers so they can all celebrate Christmas Eve 1944 together. And you so think, ah, it didn't happen.
- [15:30]
John McManus
I know, it sounds like crap, doesn't it? I mean, it sounds like it couldn't happen. And, and in the movie, one of the things they do a different wrinkle than reality. They, One of the German soldiers is a lieutenant, like a really gung ho kind of pro n lieutenant and he's threatening Elizabeth, like, this will all be remembered, you know, how you gave aid and comfort to the Americans and so there's a lot of tension between him and the U. S. Sergeant, of course, you imagine. And everybody speaks English so, you know, that facilitates communication. We can all imagine ourselves in a real situation like this in which communication would be the main challenge. Yes. You know, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, who knows how good this guy's French was and hers. And so, I mean, you know, and hearing all that German, the thing that would have been daunting for me as an American in that situation is hearing these folks speaking German and not knowing what they're saying and maybe even after they care for the wounded guy, wondering what, what happens with all that. But yeah, you probably wish that you had taken German at that stage, but.
- [16:35]
James Holland
I mean, it's a, I mean, the thing is like we're saying, I mean, if you made this up, you'd be told it was two on the nose, wouldn't you? You'd be told, yeah.
- [16:44]
John McManus
And yet it somehow actually happened. And also, I think it takes us into, into some moral quandaries, doesn't it, about who we're fighting and why and how all the tragedy of how this happens. And when you get enemies close together sometimes like that, it leads to less Tension than you might expect because of the, the human, you know, just the human connection.
- [17:05]
Al Murray
I mean, it's that, it's that thing that Dick Jesser said to me the other day that, you know, he. And then suddenly he looks down on this. He's trying to steal a flag from, you know, a good luck flag from a dead Japanese person. He suddenly sees all the letters from his family on a, you know, in his breast pocket and he thinks, well, I've got letters from my family in my breast pocket. And actually what divides us is less than what unites us. And, and he suddenly thought, well, what are we doing here? And of course, you know, to say, you see this time and time again, don't you? I mean, you see this with all these guys in Italy. You know, they're sort of, you know, their eye ties and they don't deserve, you know, deserve nothing for kind of backing the wrong horse and getting the fight in the first place. And then they get billeted with an Italian family and suddenly they're, you know, three, you know, a week later, they're all, all the Italian family is weeping when they leave and they promise they're going to be in touch forever. And they go off an R and, and you know, and it's, it's, it's, it's a statistic and a tragedy analogy all over again, isn't it? I mean, it's the same thing. The moment you actually get up close and personal and you personalize it, it. You realize how ridiculous the whole thing is.
- [18:10]
John McManus
Yeah. How mad it all is. It's compassion can make us vulnerable. And so we don't want to be vulnerable in this kind of situation, do we? I mean, and so dehumanization is the core of war on some levels.
- [18:22]
James Holland
Yeah.
- [18:23]
John McManus
That's really the horror of it all on some, you know, in some respects too. And that's when, that's when you really shines through, when you have that one on one when, when, when he sees the letters on a Japanese bottle. When, when we interact with someone from the other side, we're like, yeah, what are we doing here?
- [18:39]
James Holland
Yeah. Yeah.
- [18:40]
John McManus
Very troubling.