Burma '45: The Forgotten General

Summary

WW2 Pod: We Have Ways of Making You Talk – Episode Summary: "Burma '45: The Forgotten General"

Introduction

In the compelling episode titled "Burma '45: The Forgotten General," hosts Al Murray and historian James Holland delve into the often-overlooked Burma campaign of World War II. This episode shines a spotlight on the 10th Battalion of the Gloucestershire Regiment, exploring their harrowing experiences, leadership dynamics, and the intricate jungle warfare that defined their mission. Through detailed narratives and personal anecdotes, Al and James bring to life the valor and struggles of these soldiers, ensuring their stories receive the attention they deserve.

Encounter with General Stillwell

The episode opens with an engaging recount of Major Richard Butler’s unexpected meeting with the renowned General "Vinegar Joe" Stillwell. At [00:54], Major Butler describes how General Stillwell impressed the battalion by correctly guessing that exactly 50% of their soldiers hailed from Gloucestershire:

Major Richard Butler [01:48]: "That was by Major Richard Butler of the 10th Battalion of the Gloucesters, describing his encounter with Vinegar Joe Stillwell."

This anecdote not only highlights Stillwell's meticulous nature but also sets the stage for introducing Major General FW Festing, a central figure in the battalion's narrative.

Formation and Structure of the 10th Gloucesters

Al Murray provides a comprehensive overview of the 10th Gloucesters' formation and structural changes. Initially formed in 1940, the battalion underwent multiple conversions between infantry and armored roles, reflecting the fluid dynamics of wartime military organization:

Al Murray [04:41]: "They’ve been formed in 1940. So they arrive in Burma in February of 1944 and they come from India and they're fed into the Arakan fighting in Burma, but they've been formed in 1940."

By March 1943, the battalion reverted to its infantry roots, becoming part of the 72nd Brigade within the 36th Division, under the command of Major General FW Festing, affectionately dubbed "Frontline Frankie."

Profile of Major General FW Festing

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to profiling Major General FW Festing, a distinguished but obscure British commander. Al Murray underscores Festing's extensive military background and his pivotal yet unrecognized role in the Burma campaign:

Al Murray [08:12]: "He's a practicing Roman Catholic and he took great delight in the fact that he was the first practicing Roman Catholic to have headed the British army since the reign of James II."

Despite his commendable service, Festing remains a forgotten figure, epitomizing the many unsung heroes of the war. His leadership qualities and personal anecdotes provide a humanizing touch to the historical narrative.

The Battle for Pinway

The heart of the episode revolves around the intense battle for Pinway, a critical railway junction. Al and James meticulously detail the battalion's tactical maneuvers, the relentless jungle warfare, and the significant casualties endured:

James Holland [32:22]: "That sounds like they've come under very, very heavy small arms fire and pinned down and they don't know where they are."

The 10th Gloucesters faced formidable Japanese resistance, characterized by well-concealed machine gun posts and relentless banzai charges. The jungle terrain added layers of complexity, making coordinated attacks and defense strategies exceedingly challenging. The battalion's persistence led to the eventual Japanese withdrawal from Pinway, but not without substantial losses:

Al Murray [41:22]: "Campaign casualties in the other ranks. So aside from the officers, 32 killed, 70 wounded, one missing. So 103 in total with officers."

Personal Connections and Anecdotes

Al Murray brings a personal dimension to the episode by sharing his familial connection to Major Guy Weathered, the battalion's commanding officer. This personal touch enriches the narrative, providing listeners with a deeper emotional connection to the events discussed:

Al Murray [42:24]: "He's the son of a former commanding officer of the Gloucesters. So he's just a big boy... six foot five. He's a magnificent athlete... he’s killed shortly afterwards attempting to get his wounded men away."

These stories emphasize the profound sacrifices made by individuals and the bonds formed amidst the chaos of war.

Challenges of Jungle Warfare

Throughout the episode, Al and James highlight the unique challenges posed by jungle warfare in Burma. From disorienting terrain and dense foliage to the omnipresent threat of ambushes, the battalion had to adapt continuously to survive and achieve their objectives:

James Holland [40:24]: "That's what's going on. And, well, you might be attacking in battalion strength, but if four of you are 20 yards ahead of the rest... you're not a battalion strength, you're half a section suddenly."

The unforgiving environment demands exceptional leadership and resilience, traits that the officers and soldiers of the 10th Gloucesters exemplified repeatedly.

Conclusion: Remembering the Forgotten

In wrapping up, Al and James reflect on the broader implications of the 10th Gloucesters' experiences. They emphasize the importance of remembering the lesser-known aspects of the war and the individuals who played crucial roles in pivotal campaigns:

James Holland [45:15]: "It's so interesting... some of those divisional commanders... seriously, these are seriously good people."

The episode serves as a tribute to the forgotten generals and soldiers of the Burma campaign, urging listeners to acknowledge and honor their extraordinary contributions.

Notable Quotes

• Major Richard Butler [01:48]: "Put up their hands. I hardly dared look up to see the result, but when I did, I was very glad to see exactly 50%."

• Al Murray [08:12]: "He's a practicing Roman Catholic and he took great delight in the fact that he was the first practicing Roman Catholic to have headed the British army since the reign of James II."

• James Holland [40:24]: "That's what's going on. And, well, you might be attacking in battalion strength, but if four of you are 20 yards ahead of the rest..."

Final Thoughts

"Burma '45: The Forgotten General" is a meticulously detailed exploration of a pivotal yet overlooked chapter of World War II. Through engaging storytelling and thorough historical analysis, Al Murray and James Holland provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of the complexities of the Burma campaign and the indomitable spirit of the soldiers who fought within it. This episode not only educates but also honors the legacy of those who navigated the harsh realities of jungle warfare, ensuring their stories remain etched in history.

Transcript

[Al Murray]

Thank you for listening to we have ways of making you talk. Sign up to our Patreon to receive bonus content, live streams and our weekly newsletter with money off books and museum visits as well. Plus early access to all live show tickets. That's patreon.com wehaveways@new balance, we believe if.

[James Holland]

You run, you're a runner, however you choose to do it. Because when you're not worried about doing things the right way, you're free to discover your way. And that's what running is all about. Run your [e-mail] running she's made up.

[Major Richard Butler]

Her mind to live pretty smart Learn to budget responsibly right from the start she spends a little less in boots Pouring through savings keeps her blood pressure low and credit score raises. She's curtain debt right out of her.

[Al Murray]

Life she tracks her cash flow on.

[Jim]

A spreadsheet at night Boring money moves make kinda lame songs but they sound.

[Al Murray]

Pretty sweet to your wallet.

[Jim]

Brilliantly boring since 1865 you say you'll.

[Major Richard Butler]

Never join the Navy, never climb Mount Fuji on a port visit or break the sound barrier. Joining the Navy sounds crazy. Saying never actually is. Learn [e-mail], america's Navy forged by the sea.

[Jim]

We had all settled down and I had just marked out the area for each company when three jeeps arrived. Out of the first one got the famous General Stillwell Vinegar Joe, who had come to greet the British. The General was a small, thin man dressed in American combat uniform with a rifle slung over his shoulder. We fell in on parade and he asked me the name of my regiment. When I said it was the Gloucesters, he said he was mighty pleased and then gave us a most comprehensive talk on the county of Gloucestershire in general and about Broadway down to the last detail. We were all dumbfounded. Then he said to me, say, how many of you boys come from Gloucestershire? Now this was a very awkward question to be asked suddenly, as my party was composed of five members from each company. It was a wartime battalion and I had only seen the other company's representatives the night before. I did not wish to tell the General that I didn't know, So I said, 50 per cent, sir. With that, the old devil turned towards my party and said, all those boys come from Gloucestershire. Put up their hands. I hardly dared look up to see the result, but when I did, I was very glad to see exactly 50%. With their hands up, Vinegar Joe then went round and counted them himself. This guess really impressed the general and he could not have given us a More cordial farewell. After he had gone, I complimented my advance party on getting the percentage exactly right. I had a feeling that they must have overheard the General's conversation. That was by Major Richard Butler of the 10th Battalion of the Gloucesters, describing his encounter with Vinegar Joe Stillwell.

[Al Murray]

Welcome to we have Ways of Making youg Talk with Me, Al Murray and James Holland. This is an additional episode in our Burma series. And, Jim, thank you for bringing Major Butler to life.

[Jim]

Well, I hope you did him credit well for this.

[Al Murray]

We're going to take an intimate look at the 10th Gloucesters, who are a battalion within the forgotten army, fighting a.

[Jim]

Forgotten campaign in the forgotten bit of the forgotten campaign.

[Al Murray]

Exactly. He deserved not to be forgotten. And Richard Butler ends up commanding 10th Battalion the following year in 1945, though, is then. Is then sacked. So, and I'm relying on his. On his account, it's a series of excellent accounts in a book from 1947. And what's very interesting is, because he's fired, the book has had this sort of melancholy tone of, you know, me and the boys, in the end, we were. We were kind of let down, really, and we fought really well. And it's a bittersweet account. And what we'll do is we'll look at 10th Klosters, what they get up to, who they are, and a crucial battle that they fight at the end of 1944. So I know we are doing Burma 45, but you're just going to have to swallow this one, everybody, I'm afraid.

[Jim]

Just this is a little outlier, but it's an interesting outlier and it's a little flavour of the experiences that some of these British battalions had during the very wide, broad and complicated Burma campaign.

[Al Murray]

And also we'll be meeting a fighting general that no one's ever heard of, in keeping with the rest of our burma series. So, 10th clusters, who are they? What are they? They've been formed in 1940. So they arrive in Burma in February of 1944 and they come from India and they're fed into the Arakan fighting in Burma, but they've been formed in 1940. But in April 1942, they're converted into 159 Regiment, Royal Armored Corps, and they're a tank regiment, so they've been set up as infantry and they're converted. And, you know, Sherwood Rangers, the Omenry, of course, spend a period of time as artillerymen, don't they? So they go from cavalry to guns, back essentially to horse in the form of tanks. Right. So this is the Gloucesters experience. They're converted to tanks. They arrive in India and they join 32nd Indian Armored Division. But then in March 43, they're converted back into infantry.

[Jim]

Oh, my goodness. It's hard to keep up, I know.

[Al Murray]

But also, just think of their headache. If you're the. Say the adjutant or the. Or even the colonel commanding this, you've gone through that sort of complete re. Badge new set of training, and maybe you thought when you were going into tanks, you think, brilliant. We're not PBI anymore and we've escaped that particular possible destiny. And now you're now your infantry again. But by the time we're talking about them, they're part of 72nd Brigade with the 6 South Wales Borderers and the 9th Royal Sussex and 72nd Brigade come under the command of 36th Division, who are led by Major General FW Festing.

[Jim]

Fantastic. What a name.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. Frontline Francis Wogan Festing. Frontline Frankie. Now, who's he?

[Jim]

A 36th Division or a British division, aren't they?

[Al Murray]

Interestingly, they were an Indian division and then they're reconstituted as a British division. So they're a British division within the India. Within 14th Army. And this is a peculiar division. 36th Division only has these two brigades.

[Jim]

So it's a small. But it's a small division.

[Al Murray]

It's a kind of runt of the litter feel, I think.

[Jim]

Yes, yes, yes. And what do we know about Festing? He sounds tremendous.

[Al Murray]

Frontline Frankie Francis Wogan Festing Winchester. He's born in 1902 Winchester and then Sandhurst. He's commissioned into the rifle brigade in 1921. Then he's at Chanak and Aldershot. So he's an interwar professional soldier, you know, guy who misses the First World War quite young.

[Jim]

Divisional Command of O. Yeah.

[Al Murray]

This is, you know, this is entirely normal for people. In 1944, he's briefly. He was the air liaison officer in the campaign in Norway. Then he goes to the War Office. He's appointed to command 29th Infantry Brigade and he gets a DSO for his work in Ironclad. So the invasion of Madagascar.

[Jim]

How amazing.

[Al Murray]

So this is a guy who's, you know, been in the thick of it. He knows what's going on and he's promoted to Major General and he's sent to India and then he's given command of 36th Division. And he's a personality. He wears the uniform he wants to wear. You know, he's a chap. And there's one occasion in the second Arakan because they're involved in the end of second Arakan where basically a platoon commander is killed and Frankie Feston then leads the platoon, which I think is quite interesting.

[Jim]

Oh, he, I'm looking at him now. He looks quite, he looks quite the fellow. Ruddy cheeked and.

[Al Murray]

Yes, ruddy cheeked.

[Jim]

Hearty and hearty, absolutely.

[Al Murray]

And he ends up Chief. He's the last Chief Imperial general staff in 1958. He's the last Cigs and it's got.

[Jim]

To say he really does pretty well.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, but no one, have you heard of him?

[Jim]

No, no, he's the last Sigs.

[Al Murray]

Right. And no one's heard of him. And it's his job when he's, when he is Chief of Imperial General Staff, he has to end conscription and reduce the size of the army and he retires as a field marshal in 1961. No, I, I, I would, I would bet my bottom dollar that a handful of our listeners have ever heard of Frontline Frankie Festing.

[Jim]

How can be twice knighted?

[Al Murray]

I think you go up the order, don't you get order of one order and then you get Bath or garter or whatever, isn't it?

[Jim]

Right, right, Yeah, I suppose so, yeah. But that's amazing. And no, I've never heard of him.

[Al Murray]

You've never heard of Field Marshal Festing, Jim? No.

[Jim]

As J.R. says, Festing, not Festung.

[Al Murray]

Well, of course, and what's interesting about him as well about is he's a practicing Roman Catholic and he, he took great delight in the fact that he was the first practicing Roman Catholic to have headed the British army since the reign of James ii.

[Jim]

That's very strong.

[Al Murray]

But no one's ever heard of him.

[Jim]

No. Had you heard of him?

[Al Murray]

No, of course not. No. I only know about him from poking around in this, this 36 div stuff. 10th Gloucesters. Anyway, back to the division.

[Jim]

Of course they are, yes. They're in the admin box, aren't they?

[Al Murray]

Exactly. They're part of the relief of the admin box. They've been in the reserve for Arakan. They're one of these divisions that are hanging around waiting for a purpose a bit and, you know, it's his first divisional command and all this sort of stuff. But after admin box, the division is then involved in the resumed offensive and this involves the capture of two railway tunnels.

[Jim]

Yeah, yeah, right.

[Al Murray]

Hambone Hill near point.

[Jim]

On the Buffetong Road.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, on the Butedong Road. Exactly. So there's the capture of Hambone Hill near 0.551 and there's the fighting is the kind of fighting we've been talking about. So there's a Lt. Gardner in 10th Gloucesters who describes the fighting. Then the leading scout, a Private Venn, who received the military medal for his part of the battle, looked over the top and saw two Japs start naked sitting on the edge of a trench. He coolly walked over the top and shot them both and then advanced towards a bunker position beyond. Grenades started to rain on him but miraculously did him no harm. He then in turn threw his grenades at the slits in the bunker but unfortunately failed to hit them. The rest of his section came up and fired a bit, but owing to the proximity of darkness they decided to withdraw as the position was a very strong one. This they did, and in such good order that there were no casualties and no one was even lost, so literally lost in the darkness. They then consolidated the north feature and waited for darkness. The Jap's first effort was a bold advance down the saddle between the features, throwing grenades which proved to be comparatively harmless, being used more for the noise effect. Apparently. The attack was easily beaten off, as were all the rest of the attacks which were put in on and off all night. Thanks to their thorough consolidation, no casualties at all received. Although daylight showed no Jap bodies, they knew several had been shot point blank range and a good deal of groaning etc had been heard. Japs must have removed all their casualties as they went back. So I mean, it's this close encounter stuff in the jungle. And what you see there though is that their jungle training is really good. Right?

[Jim]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

They know how to handle themselves. And it's the thing we've talked about in the series that the jungle is the third party in the fighting in, in Burma and you can regard it as oppressive and your enemy or you can use it and if you know how to, if you know how to handle yourself in it, then its problems become the enemy's problems.

[Jim]

Yeah, yeah.

[Al Murray]

Now they're a battle hardened jungle toughened. They're classic English county wartime regimental battalion, which means, as Richard Butler pointed out, not everyone is from Gloucester. But, but let's, let's not get hung up on that. And here's an interesting thing. Every Saturday the adjutant has to fill in the field return of the Viceroy's commissioned officers, other ranks British and Indian and non combatants enrolled. So there's a form they have to fill in for their strength. Right. And they have to do this every weekend. I dug up the one that's from the month before the battle for Pinway. That we're going to talk about. So it's from October 7th. It's army form W3009, page one, modified for India, and it says at the top of it to be made up up to and for Saturday in each week. So Warrant officers class one, there's one, warrant officers class two, there's seven, there's staff sergeants, six sergeants, daffodars, havildars, there's 22 corporals, Lance Daffodars, NAICS. There's 60 non combatants enrolled, 415 non combatants unenrolled. Four. Right. And I think this document's. This document's quite interesting because they are.

[Jim]

Under strength that's only 511 rather than 850.

[Al Murray]

Yes. And then you've got one sergeant fitter, in fact, a bunch of people from the Remy. So there's a field ambulance, 22 field elements, other ranks, you have a fitter, an armorer, a couple of lower rank fitters, a sergeant fitter, sergeant armorer, lance corporal fitter and so on. So the people adjacent to the battalion, there's two signalmen. What's interesting is that you then also alongside that you have a nominal role of officers on strength, which keeps track of who's around and who's on lead.

[Jim]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

And what's interesting about this as well is you have their substantive rank, so what their rank is, and then their higher temporary rank, if held.

[Jim]

They're all temporary.

[Al Murray]

Everyone's temporary. So the lieutenant colonel or act thing. Exactly. So Lieutenant Colonel HCR hose, who's from the Beds. Beds and Hearts. So he's been brought over to the Gloucesters. And that's the other thing you see in this. Lots of these battalions are essentially ad hoc organizations and people have been brought into it.

[Jim]

I mean, look at this. You look down it, you've got. You've got beds and hearts. You've got one guy from the Royal Sussex, you've got another guy from the Beds and Hearts, one from the North Yorks and one from the Gordons. Yep. Someone from the sli. Yep. Somerset Light Infantry. Yeah. Kingston Yorkshire Light Infantry.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[Jim]

Royal Armor Corps. I mean, it's just amazing. So this is. This is absolutely classic make do amend, isn't it?

[Al Murray]

Yeah, completely.

[Jim]

And these are all acting captains.

[Al Murray]

They're all acting captains.

[Jim]

So.

[Al Murray]

So the, the company commanders. And one of them. So there's Richard Butler, Major Richard Butler, and he is a major, who's a major. So he's not on a temporary rank. Captain temporary major, Al Steadman, McLaurin. Who's the. The OC of C company. Acting major GEF weathered. Who's the OC of A company. And we're going to hear about these people as we. As we go forward. And then you've got. Who's on leave?

[Jim]

Oh, your friend Butler's on leave.

[Al Murray]

Then Butler's on leave when this is taken, when this nominal role of officers is taken. So J.J. pratt, who's a Royal Sussex Regiment guy, who's been, again, seconded to the Gloucesters. He's on leave.

[Jim]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

And I think what's so interesting is, you know, then you've got other officers from attached. From other groups as well, and these tend to be REMC people. And the adjutant has to sign off on this. So one of the fascinating things about this is what you start to see is that these battalions, as. As they go and as they're composed, are in a permanent state of flux. Right. So they can be really well trained and they can be very coherent because Stebbins, being a company commander for three years, you know, everyone knows him, he's a battalion figure. But nevertheless, they are in flux. And sickness really, really adds this, as. We'll see. So anyway, 10th Gloucesters as part of the 36th Division, as part of 76th Brigade, they come under the. Under the command of Stillwell's Northern Combat Area Command.

[Jim]

Which explains why it's the ncac, isn't it?

[Al Murray]

Yeah, which is why we saw that Stillwell comes to visit. And I love the idea that he knows all about Gloucestershire. You could just. You could just see it.

[Jim]

Well, he's meticulous and he's a details man.

[Al Murray]

And he's mugged it up, hasn't he, on the way. He's mugged it up and he's. And he.

[Jim]

How did he do that? You can't. Can't sort of go onto Wikipedia, can you?

[Al Murray]

No, I suppose not. I mean, God damn it, somebody find out about Gloucester.

[Jim]

Gloucestershire.

[Al Murray]

Gloucestershire.

[Jim]

Gloucester.

[Al Murray]

It's exactly Gloucester, Gloucestershire. He'll have got his equivalent to Perkins. Does anyone here know anything about Gloucestershire? I gotta meet these Gloucester guys later.

[Jim]

Anyway, Gloucesters or Gloucesters. God, to hell with them. Yeah.

[Al Murray]

But anyway. But his task is, obviously, as we've talked, as we've discussed, is to keep the Lido Road open.

[Jim]

Yeah, well, we should just explain what the Lido Road is. This is this. This is a northern route which has been built through the jungle. There's a brilliant aerial photograph of the Lido Road where it's just. All you can see is jungle and you just See this white strip just going straight in a straight line, straight through it. Imagine those logging roads that you see in the Amazon. Yeah, exactly. And this, this gets you from north east Burma into China.

[Al Murray]

Exactly. He's covering, covering himself more. So his Chinese divisions are sent to occupy the BMO area which is south of Mitakinia where the Irrawaddy does another one of its bends to the west and on their right, on the right of the Chinese. So to the West, 36th British Division are to advance down the Mitakinya Mandalay railway to the area of Naba junction which is at Kata. Now Kata is an important nodal point for Japanese supply up the Irrawaddy. So it's kind of where the railway, the railway runs between two ridges hill like a pair of fingers that run kind of south southwest and there's a valley that runs down it and the railway runs down that valley. Valley. And it's known as the railway corridor. And they've set the railway up. The Allies are running the railway as a jeep railway line. So they use jeeps as locomotives where they've put axles on them. So they can drive jeeps. Oh yes, yes.

[Jim]

Is that famous picture, isn't it? But we should also say that the Lido Road is also known as the Stillwell Road. Yeah, well, so it starts in, it starts in what is now Manipur state, doesn't it? And then goes across Burma, then into China.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jim]

So you're making the most of that northeast Indian railhead effectively.

[Al Murray]

And a railway line in this set of circumstances is priceless. Right. If you can, of course you can get your hands on one. So anyway, as we've said, 36th Division only have two brigades. 29th, 72nd and the 10th Gloucesters are in 72nd. 72nd are commanded by Brigadier Alfred Rambo Aslit who is a former England rugby international. He sounds like such a chapter. He does his trial for England while he's at Sandhurst. He plays center three quarter. He plays six matches for England and in the 1926 Five nations he scored two tries against France at Twickenham. So I'm 100% with Brigadier Alfred Aslit.

[Jim]

Yeah, he sounds, he sounds absolutely fantastic.

[Al Murray]

Solid fellow. So the brigade is flown from Lido to the airstrip near Mitkinya.

[Jim]

Yep.

[Al Murray]

Right. They're inserted by air and there's a story about them pointing Bren guns out the door of the C47 because they're nervous about Japanese air attack. Yeah.

[Jim]

And Lido to Mit Kino is about 400 miles, 500 miles per road, isn't it? You know, maybe not as much as that. 300 miles, maybe.

[Al Murray]

And they're going to end up facing The Japanese Japanese 18th Division, who are in on the conquest of Singapore. So they know what they're doing.

[Jim]

Oh, the aging division who, who we were talking about, of course, for, for Miktila, they get transferred third from this corner of the theater down to McTeador.

[Al Murray]

Exactly. So in August, they're moving down this corridor and the two brigades are leapfrogging one another as they go. 29th will go forward, they'll do a bit, then 72 will come through and so on. And they're hopping their way down the railway corridor. And Stillwell in August says he wants them to take a place called Tang Yi. And the Gloucesters are leading the march to Tung Yi. And on their way, D company are ambushed. Captain J. Allen and Lieutenant R. Wright. And 13 men are killed as they approach at very, very, very close range. And Major. Major Pope and six men are wounded. So it's sticky, sticky stuff. And D Company's forward platoon, they bypass the opposition and with Bren's support from C Company, they have to bayonet charge the railway station.

[Jim]

Right.

[Al Murray]

Then they do what you do. You form a defensive box where the attack has been made, but there's no further instance. So it's this very, very close personal. Yeah, everything comes down to hand to hand in the final push, if you're PBI in this, in this environment. So after that, they're sent back to a place called Mingon for rest and to protect the dropping area.

[Jim]

So where's Mingon then?

[Al Murray]

Well, this is, this is halfway down the corridor towards T. The men have been advancing through flooded paddy fields. So they're wet. Everyone's wet.

[Jim]

Through leeches.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, leeches. Jungle sores. And by the middle of August, their battalion strength is 286 people.

[Jim]

The, the losses are from the, you know.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yes, there has been disease. Yeah, yeah. It's mainly disease. So we, we talked about, you know, the two officers, 15 men being killed on the, in the advance on Tangyi. But actually, you know, you're looking at a battalion strength, a headcount that's, that's halved basically by illness. And what's interesting about this is, is, is that they have air support from the Americans, they have gunnery support from the Chinese sometimes. So they're calling on Chinese gun batteries and they get, they go fantastically well with the Americans, particularly because the Americans make great effort to evacuate the wounded. Right.

[Jim]

Yeah. In sharp Contrast.

[Al Murray]

In sharp contrast. I mean, this is absolutely incredible. So Butler relates Towni, the battalion found a huge bomb crater into which the Japanese had thrown their wounded before retreating and had tossed in hand grenades to finish them off. That Bomb Crater with 200 putrefying corpses was very horrible.

[Jim]

God, I should say.

[Al Murray]

So, yeah. This is what the day to day fighting is like in this little one little push that's got to happen to seize the railway line.

[Jim]

Well, we were talking, weren't we, in I think the second episode about the Arakan, and we were saying how remote it is there and these, you know, these chongs and these mangrove swamps and all the rest of it in that backhouse of nowhere, this place. It's just. Yeah, you know, I mean, crikey, if you're from Gloss of Gloucestershire, I mean, just imagine how far away you would feel. I mean, does it just feel like another world? It feels like another planet, doesn't it?

[Al Murray]

It does. It. It really, really, really does feel like another. Another planet.

[Jim]

I mean, trust me, if you were to go up there now, this would feel unbelievably remote.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[Jim]

To this day, I mean, but even more so back in 1944.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jim]

Just incredible.

[Al Murray]

And, you know, you're looking at such close country that, you know, you have to observe complete silence at night when you stop and patrol relentlessly. Because that's the other thing. When you look at the battalion war diary, it's patrolling. Everyone's out. There's always a patrol out when you look at their letters. But they're going, got in, got in from a patrol. You know, it's all about patrolling so that you know where the enemy are, so you're in touch with the enemy. And that's of course, in Slim's jungle fighting thing. Trained to patrol and patrol relentlessly. There's a couple of good stories about the Americans. So they'll swap cigarettes and beer with the Americans for whiskey and gin because the Americans aren't allowed spirits. So there's a good, there's a good trade. And then there's an anecdote in Butler's Thing about. There's a British general who's passed by a Jeep doing 50. The general's doing the regulation 15 miles per hour. The Jeep zip, zips by him. The general decides to have a word, so orders his driver to catch up and he tries to dress down the American who replies, say, General, you'll never win a war at 15 miles per hour.

[Jim]

Just absolutely brilliant. Well, obviously, he's a man after my own heart. I mean, I can't, I can't be dealing with slow drivers. I want to get, I want to get everywhere from as quickly as possible. Way to be.

[Al Murray]

It's the, the American engineers who they really like because they build airships dead quick so you can get your wounded out. And I think one of the, one of the interesting things when you get right into a battalion like this, it's the evacuation of the wounded that is the absolutely key thing to morale. Yeah, yeah, right. And when you consider that, you know, in the chinded expeditions, particularly the first one, Wingate leaves the wounded behind. Everyone knows what's going to happen to the wounded if they're captured. So now they're rested up, the 10th Colossus next task will be to take Pinway, which is now, I think called Pinball, but may have several or Pinlibor several other names. But there's a railway junction and this will be what happens in November 1944 for 10th Gloucesters. And it will be a very, very, very tough encounter. So join us in part two and we'll tell you about 10th Gloucesters at Pinway.

[James Holland]

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[Al Murray]

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[Al Murray]

Welcome back to we have ways to make you talk with me, Al Murray and James Holland. And we're looking at 10th Battalion, the Gloucesters and their and their battle for Pinway. A forgotten campaign within the forgotten campaign that must not be forgotten. Yeah, Jim like that. I mean the thing is, Frankie Festing, head of the chief of the Imperial General Staff, the last one I think.

[Jim]

He'S been forgotten, but I don't think he should be forgotten.

[Al Murray]

No, he's vanished from the record.

[Jim]

I think he should also be another part of the forgotten, forgotten army in the forgotten campaign. That should not be forgotten.

[Al Murray]

Exactly. Right now on the 7th of November, so we're moving up to Pinway, which is a railway junction. So, you know, it's obvious to everyone that you need to take this place.

[Jim]

And this is all part of, this is all part of the sort of ongoing NCAC operations, but they're also tying in with, generally with Slim's plans for kind of pushing down through the north of Burma and down towards the Chindwin and the Irrawaddy, which also demonstrates that.

[Al Murray]

Really, you know, the fact there's a British division here involved in this says you can't really tease apart still. Well, and Slim's efforts, you know, everyone's working together and yes, he's Vinegar Joe, he'll ball you out and all this sort of stuff. And who hates Chiang Kai Shek and so on. But actually he's working in concert with 14th army as much as anyone else.

[Jim]

Oh, and by the way, I mean, you know, he is a, he's a absolute top draw fighting commander. I mean, he might not be great at diplomacy, but he is really good. He knows what he's about, he gets the whole picture. He's a, you know, he's a general that understands strategic, operational, tactical. Stillwell deserves a really good reputation, I think.

[Al Murray]

I agree. Yeah.

[Jim]

You know, and it's just his misfortune as he ends up, I mean, he is completely the wrong person to be liaison, kind of, you know, guy with Chiang Kai Shek. But then literally so would anyone else be. Because Chang's so completely impossible.

[Al Murray]

Well, and also because the Americans, the Americans have bitten off more than they can chew in China. And if you're the emissary, what you've got to basically say to Chiang Kai Shek the whole time is, no, no, not really. You might want that, but you're not going to have it. And Chiang Kai Shek, he knows he's at the back of the queue, you know, he's trying to save China as he sees it. And the Americans are going, yeah, of course we'll help. And then don't anything like as much as he needs them to. So you can also see why from the other end, it's an impossible gig for, for him too, you know. Anyway, so on the 7th of November, 72nd Brigade, they take the lead to Mwalu for the advance onto Qatar. And this is teak forest. Yes, very, very dense. Visibility is generally 30 yards. And this is. This is the 10th Glosses Brigade. So on the right, 9th Royal Sussex advance down the railway track.

[Jim]

Yep.

[Al Murray]

Six South Wales Borderers go down the dirt road, which is 800 yards to their left. Basically you've two battalions kind of advancing on a mile wide front. And 10th Gloucesters are in reserve. And the forward battalions. There's a position at Gyeobin Chong, which is north of Pinwei. It's a brook, it's a stream. And of course, chongs flow at different rates at different times a year, depending on the rainfall. This time of year it's less so. And again, it's Japanese. 18th Imperial Division. And Butler says its patrolling was first class. And for the Japanese its shooting was very accurate. So they're not underestimating who they are up against. And so the plan is, Brigadier Aslik conceives this plan, that what they're going to do is that the Gloucesters are going to go round through the jungle on the left flank, while the other two battalions are holding, holding the front, go round behind Pinway and then. And then the rest of the brigade will attack across the river. So it's hammer and anvil stuff. And the idea is you use this very, very thick countryside, this teak forest, to get in close, go round and then crush the Japanese in the. In the jaws of the 3 Battalion.

[Jim]

Got it.

[Al Murray]

So on the 15th of November, 10th Gloucesters with 70 mules, they start out over the foothills on their left flank and they're steep hills, their men are heavily laden with weapons, full kit, three days rations on their backs and it's hard, it's hard going, you know, this countryside is difficult. After two days, they've made it to the rear of the enemy position, but they're still some three miles from Pinway, with two or three miles of unrecied jungle to be penetrated before they get to the village. And then the news reaches them that the South Wales borderers aren't going to be able to put their attack. They've had to withdraw at Gobinchon.

[Jim]

Yep.

[Al Murray]

So what do you do? You've got this far, you made your way down to Pinway, Pinway's possibly within your grasp. What do you do, Jim?

[Jim]

Probably put the attack in anyway, I think.

[Al Murray]

And you're right. So the idea is they're going to put the attack in anyway. They'll form a box, they'll rely on air supply because that will disrupt the Japanese, get the job done. While the rest of the brigade comes up. So they wait in complete jungle silence.

[Jim]

That night, except for the insects and the blizzards and the ticking of birds and.

[Al Murray]

Exactly. Then on the 17th, they advance purely on a compass bearing.

[Jim]

Oh, my goodness me. I mean, would you, would you believe your compass? You know, in the jungle, in the peak forest.

[Al Murray]

Exactly. And in the afternoon they run into heavy enemy opposition. So, Jim, do you want to read the diary entry?

[Jim]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the diary says B company, C company tac HQ and A company main HQ, D company leading company moving on a bearing of 245 degrees. Leading elements of B Company reported contact with the enemy estimated at platoon strength with several LMGs. The leading platoon, under command of Lieutenant Gordon, put in an immediate attack. Heavy LMG and rifle fire was experienced and Lieutenant Gordon's platoon was pinned down. Major A.C. stedman, B Company commander, then led the remainder of the company in a left flanking attack, encountering further LMG and MG fire which ultimately pinned the company further left. Flanking attack by the 2nd Company, C Company met with the same result. At this stage, considerable LMG fire and sniping was experienced on both flanks, threatening to split three leading companies.

[Al Murray]

I mean, that's a bad start, right?

[Jim]

Yeah. That sounds like they've come under very, very heavy small arms fire and pinned down and they don't know where they are. And it's all getting very, very fraught, to put it mildly.

[Al Murray]

There's no water in the area and dusk's approaching. They pull back to the foothills, back to their original position. They think, well, that's not, that's not worth it. The next day, the 18th, there's a patrol because they're patrolling. You patrol, patrol, patrol, patrol to find out what's going on. Because that's part of the problem with what happens on the 17th is that they've basically reconnoitered in force as a battalion and it's come unraveled and that what they've not done is really, really been sure of where they're going. So there's a patrol on the 18th and Lieutenant Gordon, who we heard about in the. In that.

[Jim]

Yes, he was in B Company, wasn't he?

[Al Murray]

That's right, he's killed. So things are tense. But they still need to take Pinway. They've committed to take, taking Pinway. And on the 19th there's a change of plan. New orders come to prepare for a frontal attack as part of the brigade effort to catch the Gobin Chong and Pinwell railway station. So this, this sort of probing thing and the Gloucesters going alone has been basically been sacked off.

[Jim]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

Two British Field Artillery regiments are going to put in a barrage and an airstrike's arranged for the Gobinchong area. So they brought a bit more muscle to this and they're not going to be able to do it purely by infantry probing. On 21 November, patrols are sent out and the battalion moves up to its assembly area and they can't find the enemy because the jungle's so thick.

[Jim]

Oh my goodness. I mean, just imagine, you'd be so on edge, wouldn't you?

[Al Murray]

Yeah. These are the day to day problems. You can't locate the enemy because the jungle's so thick. And so you can see why. Maybe on the 17th they thought, well, let's go in as a battalion because if it's a platoon of Japanese, we'll overwhelm, it will be all right. But actually all your companies can come undone if the resistance is good enough and if you don't know where the rifle fire, machine gun fire is coming from. So 22nd of November, after short bombardment, the battalion advances at 10 hundred hours. DNA companies lead on the right and left of the road and the other companies are close behind them.

[Jim]

So, you know, that all seems fine, doesn't it? But here we go again.

[Al Murray]

Here we go again.

[Jim]

Take two.

[Al Murray]

Jim, do you want to do D Company?

[Jim]

D Company kept up with the barrage and in spite of difficult ground owing to the bamboo having been broken up by the bombardment, reached the Gyobincheong, dealing with the enemy positions they encountered. Two platoons crossed and caught the Japanese defenders on the run, killing most of them. The reserve platoon wiped out an enemy position, but then came under heavy machine gun fire and suffered casualties. That platoon then escaped and rejoined the rest of D Company on the chong right. So D Company had done reasonably well.

[Al Murray]

It's sticky stuff. Yeah, but it's still sticky.

[Jim]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

Exactly. The reserve platoon having to having to get involved. So immediately you're not shooting your bolt, but things are tight. C Company then come under heavy fire from a well concealed machine gun post that was protected by a ring of snipers among the trees on the left of the road. They can't find the machine gun in the maze of fallen bamboo, so. So it's that thing. The bamboo is a problem when it's standing because it's close and you can't see in front. But when it's fallen, how can you pick out a target? How can you make out what you're looking for? So C Company then dig in. And Major McLaurin is wounded in the advance. Right. And then the fighting takes on this characteristic Captain OM Shriver. He crawls forward in the open to pull back one of his men who's wounded, and he's killed by a sniper. And this means the company has no officers. So a Captain Wills is called back from D Company to take command. They eventually reach the chong. The depleted company dig in as darkness falls. And then A company who, as we said, are on the right of the road, they run into an enemy bunker position which is dealt with by a two platoon attack. And during this attack, A company's commander, who's a major guy, weathered, he suffers a jammed Sten gun and he's reported as having killed the last Japanese with his steel helmet.

[Jim]

Oh, my goodness.

[Al Murray]

Because this is this up close and. And the fighting's this bitter and whether it is the son of a former.

[Jim]

Commander, so he's just taken off his helmet and just whammed it into a. Used it as a sort of a.

[Al Murray]

Scythe, effectively, I don't know, bash someone's brains in with. I mean, yeah, whatever. Now, he's the son of a forming commanding officer of the in the Gloucesters. So his father commanded a Gloucester's battalion in the First World War.

[Jim]

Yep. He's a big boy.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, six foot five. He's a magnificent athlete, a great runner. He has an Oxford blue in relays and half mile and in fact had beaten an Olympic record in trials when running. And he's killed shortly afterwards attempting to get his wounded men away. And. Well, and this is. It's interesting, isn't it? The wounded is such a feature, looking after the wounded.

[Jim]

Leave the wounded with the Japanese, don't.

[Al Murray]

Leave the wounded with the Japanese at the cost of a company commander's life. He cares about it that much. Right. And in repelling Japanese counterattacks, all of A company's officers are killed or wounded. So the same situation basically as C Company.

[Jim]

So they're getting hammered, really.

[Al Murray]

They are really getting hammered. Maybe they've bitten off more than they can chew. So B Company follow up. They find more of the enemy are coming round back into their original position on the chong behind A Company. So B Company then have to dislodge them, basically. As soon as they wipe out one set of Japanese or Japanese post, another one will spring up two big counterattacks, but it's banzai charges. And the accounts will say, thank goodness, because they scream and they shout. They tell us they're coming, we can.

[Jim]

Hear which you can hear them coming. You can see them coming.

[Al Murray]

Exactly. And there are. There are snipers still in the trees, but B Company. Hold on. But their company commander was killed and he as well as two.

[Jim]

Number one.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. And that's Major Steadman, who we talked about in the officer's role, who's company commander for three years. And what we've got here is officers getting in there, obviously leading from the front and making sure that their men are not left behind, the wounded and not left behind for the Japanese. I mean, this story is rather good. Jim, do you want to relate this?

[Jim]

So this one. The story goes that. That after this, the sole remaining officer provides some comic relief. That's absolutely brilliant. The company's position is consolidated. He reports back to the battalion head headquarters, fully equipped and armed, but without any trousers. Apparently he's lost these while struggling through the jagged and broken bamboo during the advance. And he complains of feeling rather very vulnerable. Well, you would do, wouldn't you? Let's face it, you would.

[Al Murray]

I feel very vulnerable, sir.

[Jim]

Yeah. I wouldn't want to leech on the old chap.

[Al Murray]

I mean, it's. It's extraordinary. So the next day. Yeah, you know, they've got 24th of November by this point, 23rd of November, they got their box. They're patrolling.

[Jim]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

You know, more enemy attacks repulsed, enemy shelling on the Gloucesters positions during the day.

[Jim]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

The regimental aid post is hit by a heavy mortar.

[Jim]

And this is reminding me. This is reminding me of Ortona, this whole scale of losses.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. Battalions being gutted. Yeah, yeah. The doctor, Captain A.D. gould, is killed, five of his staff as well, three others wounded. And in the afternoon, some of the South Wales borderers attack and dig in on the left of A Company. So they're getting relief from the rest of the brigade. Do you think?

[Jim]

One of the problem is. Is just that they've got no kind of real sort of spatial understanding where they are, because it's jungle and bamboo and you can't really see anything. So you're stumbling into these Japanese positions about really knowing where you are.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[Jim]

And no one can really see what's going on. So not only do you not know where you are, you can't really organize yourself, particularly, because it's also disorientating.

[Al Murray]

Well, yes, in exactly.

[Jim]

That's what's going on.

[Al Murray]

And, well, you might be attacking in battalion strength, but if four of you are 20 yards ahead of the rest of everyone else and you can't see one another or speak to one another or here for the gunfire. You know, you're not a battalion strength, you're half a section suddenly.

[Jim]

Yes.

[Al Murray]

And it only, it can only make piecemeal attacks of even battalion attacks. Right, yeah. And you know the thing we've talked about again and again and again in this Burma series, if you do things in piecemeal, you've got real problems because you can be outnumbered automatically.

[Jim]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

And I think the officers, the officers aren't being targeted, it's the fact that they're leading.

[Jim]

Yeah, they're leading.

[Al Murray]

So they have to be omnipresent. They have to check all their positions. They're clearly determined to defend the wounded and rescue the wounded. And we know why. So the next day, 25th November, the 10th Gloucesters are ordered they're going to be relieved the following day. And they are. They are relieved. On the 26th, D Company spots an enemy patrol in the open and kill most. Meanwhile, you know, South Wales Borders and 9th Ross Sussex have been putting in as the, you know, the accounts say, very gallant attacks on other positions. The Japanese are hanging on and making them pay as well. Two days later, the Japanese retire from Pinwei. Give it up.

[Jim]

Right. So it's all over.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. Campaign casualties in the other ranks. So aside from the officers, 32 killed, 70 wounded, one missing. So 103 in total with officers. And they count 51 enemy dead in the battalion area. Seven officers and 32 other ranks.

[Jim]

Goodness. I mean, seven officers in a, in a, in an infantry battalion is a lot.

[Al Murray]

It is. It's bad stuff. And the battalion then concentrates a place called Papan to collect, to protect lines of communication. So, yes, you are resting. Yes, you are reorganizer. Yes, you're getting. You're fighting fit again, but obviously you're protecting your loc, which will mean patrolling. But the companies are reformed on a two platoon basis on account of casualties and a number of new officers join.

[Jim]

And you've got a very personal reason for this, haven't you?

[Al Murray]

Why have we looked at this battalion? Aside from the fact that this is part of the Burma war that gets overlooked that they're with still. Well, it's a clearing operation. It's not Mandalay. Or it's because Guy weathered, Major Guy weathered.

[Jim]

Six foot five, trying to save his wounded men.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. Was my great uncle.

[Jim]

Yeah. Amazing.

[Al Murray]

My. My grandmother's brother. And I've been reading his letters. All I'll say is that the day before the 22nd, he writes to his sister and his mother and to my mum and says just to Let you know that I am flourishing. We've moved again. Not much is going on.

[Jim]

Wow. So just no hint of this terrible small scale, but, but, but turning out, you know, murderous battle.

[Al Murray]

He's certainly not going to let them know. He doesn't want them to worry. And the tone of all his letters is, is, is that.

[Jim]

But do you get a quote? Do you get. I mean, because one of the things I think is that, is the, the joy of reading these wartime letters is, is when you, you get a sense of the character and the personality come through. Does it, does it come through? What kind of guy, what kind of bloke is he?

[Al Murray]

Well, the sense from the letters is he doesn't want people to be flapped by what's going on. He really wants to see his niece. He's very keen on news of, of, of, of, of her and of home. And he's, he just. I can't wait to get back to dear old Marlow again and see Marlowe.

[Jim]

Yeah. So he's homesick. He feels a long way from home. This is a dirty business and someone's got to do it and you know, crikey. I mean, so he's just, he, so he's just a good bloke, isn't he? He's just like an ordinary, thoroughly decent chap.

[Al Murray]

They're sending him tobacco and the thing he's worried about is that they're spending their money on it and I'm being paid more now I'm a company commander, so please do use my money because I can't really spend any out here. Jungle. What are you saying?

[Jim]

Oh, he sounds like a lovely fellow.

[Al Murray]

And he gets in and he'll say, how wonderful. There was some stuff waiting for me when I got in from patrol. I mean, you think what getting in from patrol means in that countryside, the tension, the effort and you know, and he's quite clearly a completely hands on lead from the front company commander as well. And I think these actions, when you get inside, what it's like being in an infantry battalion in particular in this part of the world, in this campaign. Because after all, on this Burma series, Burma 45 series, we have talked about this absolutely extraordinary crushing victory that Slim inflicts, a defeat over the Japanese, that Slim inflicts on the Japanese. It's extraordinary. But what's it like being pbi? What is it actually like fighting the Japanese? And this is what it's like, the countryside, particularly in the jungle. And I know, I know when we get to Mandalaya McTilia, it's a different countryside. But what's it like fighting these people who won't surrender, who won't give up, the only way you're going to defeat them is with this kind of leadership and the men responding to that leadership and being as in it as the officers are. And I think to look at a county battalion, a wartime county battalion and their exploits is a refreshing way of coming at this.

[Jim]

It's fantastic. It's so interesting. And I think the funny thing is, although it's this really remote bit and bit that everyone's forgotten in the forgotten army and the forgotten campaign, I do think this description is kind of, in a way, what everyone imagines the war in Burma's like.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[Jim]

I think it must have just been utterly, utterly terrifying.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[Jim]

And. And that sense of dislocation from home and from, you know, everything that's familiar must just be. I mean, the privations are just so.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. So you might as well be on the moon if you're.

[Jim]

You're from Marlow.

[Al Murray]

Lovely old Marlow with a river running through it is all rather genteel. And then to be. To be in this. In this hellish environment with an enemy again that wants take a. Give no quarter, well, I think that's.

[Jim]

A very good way to end this. Burma 45 series and wrapping up the Burma campaign. It's been fascinating. It really has, the whole thing, and so much more complex than I think most people would expect. This isn't just a case of, okay, we now know what we're doing and we know how to defeat the Japanese. This is still an unbelievably complicated campaign, you know, over. Over. Over extreme distances, in extremely remote corners of the globe, in extremely difficult conditions. And, and hats off, really, to all those guys. And, and, you know, it's interesting that Slim is always very lavish in his praise of his commanders. And I think that's right. I mean, you know, it is ultimately his victory, it's his vision, it's him steering the whole thing and, and driving the whole thing. But, you know, my goodness, some of those, those divisional commanders, the Pete Reese, Douglas, Gracie, Punch, Cowan, you know, these, these are, you know, and even Philip Christensen at 15 core. I mean, these are. These are seriously, you know, Frank Messevy and so on.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[Jim]

You know, these are seriously good, good people, aren't they? Good commanders who deserve to be better remembered and better recognized for their, you know, their extraordinary achievements and, of course, all the men involved.

[Al Murray]

Well, and it runs all the way down the Pole because it's all you can, you know, obviously. And we. We have talked about this, haven't we, before that. It's like a Mobius strip, you know, the. The confidence in the commander creates confidence in the men. If the commander has confidence in his men, he can have confidence in his ability to command because they'll do what. They'll do what he thinks they're capable of, but they're only capable of what they're capable of, you know, and it just goes. It just goes round and round and round and round and round. But if you don't have people like Lieutenant Gordon, people like Major Steadman, people like Major Weathered, who are prepared to lead in the way you need them to.

[Jim]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

These campaigns are impossible, no matter how. No matter how good your forgotten generals are, without your forgotten colonels and majors and. And so on. And these men plucked from county towns and wherever who don't want to. Yeah. Glass. Glass. Estashire. I mean, there you are. Guys from. Guys from Buckinghamshire, and he's ended up in the Gloucesters.

[Jim]

But, you know, it's a.

[Al Murray]

It's a familial collection connection, which is why. Why is. With that battalion. There we are. Anyway, thanks, Jim.

[Jim]

No, thank you. That's great. That's a. That's a great story out. I absolutely love that. I thought that was a really, really fantastic way to end the. End the series. So I hope everyone's enjoyed it. I hope people haven't been too lost with all the names and stuff. We've got. We've got a bevy of maps now. We said that we can sort of show those up, perhaps.

[Al Murray]

Well, and there is a. There is a map of the Pinway action that. It's in the. It's in the war diary. Completely incomprehensible.

[Jim]

I can imagine.

[Al Murray]

It's just no use to anybody. It's tiny.

[Jim]

Could be anywhere.

[Al Murray]

Could be. Could literally be anywhere. Yeah.

[Jim]

Frankly, is anywhere.

[Al Murray]

Well, exactly. Anyway, thanks, everybody, for listening. We hope you've enjoyed our Burma 4045 with a bit of 44 series, and we'll see you again very soon. Cheerio.

[Jim]

Cheerio.