← WW2 Pod: We Have Ways of Making You Talk
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Thank you for listening to we have ways of making you talk Sign up to our Patreon to receive bonus content, live streams and our weekly newsletter with money off books and museum visits as well. Plus early access to all live show tickets. That's patreon.com we haveways.
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Let's talk about Peyronie's disease. It's not widely talked about and some men may feel reluctant to bring it up, but it's more common than you'd think. PD can happen when scar tissue builds up under the skin of the penis causing a curve with a bump during an erection that for some men may lead to pain during intimacy and impact mental health. A trusted urology specialist can help diagnose PD and walk you through your options, including non surgical treatment. Visit talkaboutpd.com Lets talk about Peyronie's disease or PD. It's not widely talked about and some men may feel reluctant to bring it up, but it's more common than you'd think. PD can happen when scar tissue builds up under the skin of the penis causing a curve or bump during an erection that for some men may lead to pain during intimacy and impact mental health. A trusted urology specialist can help diagnose PD and walk you through your options, including non surgical treatment. Visit talkaboutpd.com let's talk about a condition many people haven't heard of and it turns out it's more common than you'd think. Peyronie's disease, or PD for short. PD can happen when scar tissue builds up under the skin of the penis. This can cause a curve with a bump during an erection and for some men lead to pain during intimacy and may impact mental health. It may also lead to anger and frustration, depression, lower self esteem, and even withdrawal from sexual activity and physical intimacy. Because of this, some men could feel embarrassed or reluctant to talk about pd. The actual cause of PD isn't always known. In some cases it may be linked to a minor injury or repeated injuries during sex or other physical activity. The good news is PD is treatable. If you notice a curve with a bump, a trusted urology specialist can help diagnose it and walk you through your options, including non surgical treatment. To learn more about Peyronie's disease, visit talkaboutpd.com.
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On the evening after we'd returned to our base at Tilshead, I was just getting into a bath when an officer hammered on the door and shouted, you have to get up to London right away because the Prime Minister wants to Know the details. Division are sending a staff car and the driver will know where to take you. How very exciting, thought I. The only trouble being that there had been no time for a detailed debriefing. We had spent the day resting and cleaning up. Though I had a fairly clear idea of what happened, I wanted to question the key personnel thoroughly before making my report. Individual stories always needed to be checked for imagination and exaggeration can distort the truth. However, I think it was about 10 o' clock when I arrived in Birdcage Walk to be guided below to an underground room in the center of which our own briefing model had been put. Soon after, various important people drifted in. One of the first was Major Clement Attlee, the Deputy Prime Minister, who asked me to tell him all about it. I was reluctant to perform before a one man audience. He was insistent. So I began. But very soon he said, how do you know all this? Because I was there. You mean you are actually on the raid? Yes, and I've been sent up here to tell the Prime Minister all about it. Good heavens, said he, looking at me in a rather puzzled way. Well, perhaps we had better wait to hear the whole story from the start.
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C
Well, perhaps we should.
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I think we should. And that was of course, John Frost legend. The legend, John Frost Airborne legend. John Frost recounting the morning after the night before.
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C
So, yeah, you are so John Frost.
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Now, just why I haven't grown the mustache for this podcast is a mystery.
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C
And also you can tell that he's a born raconteur because he says, how very exciting, thought I rather than I thought.
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Yes, yes, it's it. The thing is, his memoir is very good, but the dits are down. Let's put it that way. He's a big character. Anyway, welcome to. We have ways of making you talk with me. I'm Murray and James Holland and we're on part three.
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C
Oh my goodness. Well, we left him dangling, didn't we?
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He had his legs through the whole. Or rather sar Major Strawn's legs because he's going first. The company Sergeant Major is going first, Jerry.
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C
But it was literally about to kick off.
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Yeah. You'll be reassured to hear Jerry Strawn had a magnificent moustache.
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C
Yeah, of course he did.
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A
Yeah.
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C
So. And, and, and Percy Pickard had a.
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At a big, big long, straight pipe. Yeah. I mean these people, they've been sent to us to.
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C
I slightly regret that I wasn't called Percy. Hello, Percy Holland.
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Was it ever on the cards?
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C
No, but I wish it was. Maybe I'll change it by maybe that's
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your new nickname from Percy. Percy Holland Percy. So the Brunaval Ray. Let's just, let's just refresh those, those who haven't subscribed and had to wait a week for this. Right, basically this raid is on the 27th, 28th of February 1942. And let's be honest, Britain, it's good news. It's good news because Britain's war has got the blues. Let's. Let's make no mistake here.
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C
Oh, no, it's all going wrong.
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And, and things have been going wrong. We've had.
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C
I know, I'm laughing about it. It really upsets me just thinking about it.
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A
I know.
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C
So thank you for bringing some levity into it.
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A
Well, particularly in the Far east, things that things are really like. Because, because let's be honest, it's not
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C
going great in North Africa.
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A
It's not going great great in North Africa.
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C
It's not going great in the air on BO Command.
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It's not going great in the air for Bomber Command and the, and the, and the Royal Navy is, you know, just let the German surface fleet through the Straits of Dover in the Channel dash.
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Anyway, all three services struggling.
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Everyone's got the blues, right?
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Everyone's got blues. What they need and they need is a cheer up story.
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They need a cheer up story. And the bomber offensive, let's be honest now, in the Northwest Europe theater, the only offensive on offer is the bomber offensive.
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C
Yeah, right now.
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But the problem is getting across the French coast lights up the German radio location system system, as they call it, the Freya and the Verseberg, which is this twin system for long range and a short range radar detection system. And R.V. jones, top boffin and his best mate, FC, yeah, Legend.
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C
Legendal Jones.
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Legend Jones. He wants a Verseberg A they've spotted one on the front.
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C
He wants one so bad.
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He wants it so bad. He wants that radar dish right now. He can taste it.
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It's just there dangling in front of him. It's on the other side of the English Channel right there. For all he needs is some special forces to go and whip it up.
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Well, unfortunately, fortunately, Combined Operations Headquarters under its new boss, Lord Lewis Manbatten, they need a result. They want a result. Airborne forces want a result. Boyd Browning needs a result because he's been lobbying hard for 18 months and he's kind of not really got anywhere with airborne forces. They've just been reorganized. They've just become the Parachute Regiment. They've just become First Parachute Brigade Intelligence. So we are in on this. I think what's so interesting about the Bruneval raid is these elements. This is the Overlord package that you need intelligence. You need. You need intelligence, you need air cover.
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C
Air cover.
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You need the strategic bomb offensive to panned out. You need the navy and the army
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and the Air Force and you need an assault craft.
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Exactly. So it's. It's like it's the most miniature.
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C
This is Mini Me dd.
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Exactly. Is this the tiny acorn from which. I've never thought of it like that overload is grown.
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C
Honestly, in the last 24 hours I've had, I've had a couple of really big. Never thought of that moments about the Second World War.
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So intel has been gathered by the agents Charlemagne, Paul Roger and Remy.
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C
Who's Paul? Roger's real name is Roger.
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Yes, his actual name is Roger. Yeah, he's called Paul Roger.
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C
What codename would you like? Well, I've been thinking about that. I think I'm going to go up. I'm always partial to a drop and I think I'd like to be called Paul Roger.
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Anyway, the point is, is that this operation is now in. Is in full flow C Company of two Para Jock company made up of men from the Black Watch, the Seaforth Highlanders, Cameronians, still wearing their bonnets. They're not wearing the maroon berets yet. And one of the really interesting things about airborne forces is some.
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C
They've got airborne helmets. Right, this.
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Yeah, yeah, they have. They're not wearing this foam donut anymore that they look rather daft in, they are now wearing.
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C
And I think everyone's happy about that,
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everyone's happy about that. But what's interesting is, is even by the time people are still referring to themselves as guardsmen and the regiments they're from, you know Jack Graben, who's the Victoria Cross at Arnhem Bridge, he's ox and bucks and that's how he sees himself. And when you go to Arnhem, lots of the graves are someone on this on 2nd Parachute Regiment from the Lanks or whatever. So.
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C
So Somerset line.
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There's sort of no such thing as the Parachute Regiment in the way we think of it now back there.
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So new because it's.
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It's a blank sheet of paper, so. And with them they've got Flight Sergeant
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Charles Cox, General hero, who's a projection because you have one. What happened? Do you have one?
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I can't remember. He twisted his ankle or something at Ringwood. Yeah, yeah, Smith.
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C
So he can't Come, got game leg.
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So it's a smash and grab caper. Can the caper come off? Moon and tide are right on the 24th of February, but the weather goes wrong. Everyone thinks it's off, except for Company Sergeant Major Jerry Straughan, who on the 27th, the morning the 27th, gets up and goes. Okay chaps, I reckon it's the D. Right. I'd like to extend an apology to our Scottish listeners and hope that that hasn't shattered the Union forever.
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C
Anyway, I'm sure that's how he sounded.
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A
Exactly how he sounded. I'm sure. I mean, I'm probably doing it. And the weather is perfect. Though it has snowed over at Bruneval on the other side of the Channel. Finally they are go. And we left the last episode with the men literally poised at the hole of the floor of the Whitley. Obsolete Whitley, the 12 Whitleys that the RAF have deigned to hand over the Air Ministry. Major John Frost has been passing around the tea laced rum in his Whitley. The green light says go. But before John Frost exits the Whitley.
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C
Yeah, come on, let's build the suspense a bit longer.
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Let's look at the plan because we haven't actually discussed what.
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C
No, we haven't.
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A
Right.
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C
And I want to hear it.
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So the plan is to land inland of the villa and to split into five parties named after naval legends. Right. So I mean, you know, of course, if you've been listening to our Navy series lately. Here we go. It's like the. It's like the perfect planetary alignment. Nelson is the largest party.
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C
He's Yoda. Now engage the enemy more closely.
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Nelson is the largest party of four. 40, 40 men. So four sticks from four aircraft because they're jumping in sticks of 10.
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C
I'm glad that the largest party is named after Nelson. Well, well, Biggest ledge.
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Good, excellent. And part of this is commanded and we'll come to him in a minute. 20 year old Lieutenant Second Lieutenant Ewan Charteris.
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C
I've heard of him before.
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He's known as Junior because he's the youngest officer in C Company because they're not very good at nicknames in 42. And he's supposed to drop in first at quarter past midnight at 00, 15 hours and secure the beach where the landing cross.
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C
Zulu.
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Yeah, that's all this is, all Zulu. And in that party is John Frost's 2IC, which is Captain John Ross.
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C
Yes.
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A
And he's got to hold the road to the beach and then Charteris is to take the beach once they've Done that, they contact the navy who've already set off, who set off in the afternoon with it. HMS Prince Albert, the cross channel ferry retooled as an assault ship. The rest will drop five minutes later at 0020. And this is Hardy, a party of 20 men who are going to capture the villa itself as well as any radar operators in the party. And this includes John Frost, Charles Cox and the Royal Engineers under Charles Dennis Vernon Jellicoe is one stick of ten men under Lieutenant Peter Young who will capture the Henry, as they call it, which is the Wurzburg, they've nicknamed the Wurzburg Henry.
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C
I mean these are all names that you've kind of, you know, come up again, aren't they?
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It's great, it's great, yes. These people resurface. Drake is another 10 men under Lieutenant Peter Naumoff.
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C
No, I haven't heard of him.
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Who are to contain the enemy at La Presbytere, which is the farmhouse complex to the north of the radar in
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the woods, isn't it?
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A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then the last group is Rodney and they are meant to land at 25 past midnight. And they're the reserve. The idea is that they're the reserve. Okay. There, there is force protection in case the Germans moved in from Bruneval village to the site. And then the evacuation will be in the order of Hardy, Jellicoe, Drake. Because Hardy's got the radar is the theory. So you need to get them off first Hardy, Jellicoe, Drake, then Rodney, then Nelson.
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C
Yeah, you'd expect Nelson to be nice.
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Nelson's last because Nelson's holding the X fell as well.
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C
And he's got the biggest.
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And he's got the biggest party on board the Seabourne element. So in the Seabourn element is 181 airborne field ambulance with 20 medical orderlies split up across the Prince Albert, the motor gunboats and the landing craft Assaul. And there's two medical orderlies jumping with Frost's men.
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C
Okay, well that sounds like they've covered it.
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Yeah, but that also shows, and this is what comes in on with Overlord, is there's a seaborne tail and an airborne component. There always is. Yes. The stuff, you know, you can't parachute in, you bring by sea once you've established your beachhead. So.
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C
And you also make sure you've got
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decent medics, Browning models. The medical thing on cavalry medicine, because cavalry medicine is portable, has to turn up wherever the cavalry get to. So he draws on cavalry for how you run the air ambulance. The the, the airborne field ambulance. So that's the plan. But of course, no plan survives contact with the enemy. Blah, blah, blah. So as they approach Lavra, there's flak. Of course there is. And the first two planes carrying half of the Nelson component, whose job it is to secure the exit, seize the beach, secure the exit, are knocked off course.
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C
What?
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And ironically, it's Wing Commander Percy Pickard, whose pipe, his straight pipe is knocked off course.
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C
And he's literally out of his mouth.
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A
Literally out of his mouth. And him and him navigate, him and his navigators. The navigator, Plane 1 and Plane 2E, claim they lose their way. And so, Unknown to Frost, 20 men in Nelson, the first guys to land, half the XFIL party land in the wrong place.
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C
Where do they land?
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A
Well, we'll come to that.
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C
Okay.
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Because let's not, you know, come on, we're in the suspense business here. So on board Frost, Whitley. Company Sergeant Major calls action stations.
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C
CSM Strawn.
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A
Yeah, yeah. That wasn't bad, was it?
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C
No, it's excellent.
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Everyone's up. They ditch their blankets because they brought blankets with them because it's so cold. Yeah. Number one dangles his legs through the hole, which is Strawn. Head back like that.
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C
Yeah, yeah. Don't want to smash him.
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A
Don't want to bring your belt. Ring the bell on the way through. And we've got a photo of that. We'll put up to confidence. They all are really frightened, the blokes in that. I know they're big hairy ass paratroopers, but the blokes in that picture haven't done it before in anticipation of going in that hole. Are not, are not happy, I think it's fair to say.
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C
I don't think I would be.
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A
No, no, absolutely.
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C
You'd be tense, wouldn't you?
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You'd be tense. Anyway, go. Frost descends. Right. They're jumping at about 300ft, possibly not very much. I mean, you're in the air for 10 seconds at most.
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C
Yeah.
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Right. Shoot deploys, you're down. Right. But there it all is laid out
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C
exactly as they imagine.
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Exactly. And if you go to the Air Assault Museum at Duxford, and I recommend you go to the Air Assault Museum at Duxford, there is the Bruneval model from, from, from the original, the original model from the planning in 1942.
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C
Amazing.
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A
And, and it's, and, and he says it's. It's exactly as I saw it. Every fold of the land. As expected, Frost recalls, I landed very softly in the snow. There was no Wind and all was silent apart from the noise of our aircraft stealing away into the night. My first action was a natural one. It was not good drill. For now is the time when a sticker parachutists are most vulnerable and one's first concern should be to make for the weapons containers, however it become essential. And it was also a gesture of defiance. We collected the slash. He's had gone for slash. Yeah, he's gone for slash. Because. Because when they leave Thruxton, RAF Thruxton, the men are told to have a pee before they leave because they've been sat around drinking tea all day. Frost has been on the rum and laced tea.
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C
Yeah.
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In the plane and is absolutely busting,
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C
busting for us for a wiser.
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And what's interesting about this is. This is a. This is a recurring paratrooper thing. Alistair Pearson, when he briefs his men before D Day. So there's a. There's a three prong briefing. If you're in. If you're in 8 para, there's the three prong briefing. Windy Gale comes down and he says, the enemy is like a June bride. She knows she's going to get it, but she doesn't know how big it is. And he says, only a fool would go, that's why I'm going. Going. Right. And you're like Wendy Gale, you're the. Like greatest.
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C
You're the ledge.
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You're the absolute goat.
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C
You're even better than Reginald.
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And then. Exactly. And then. And then James Hill, Brigadier James Hill goes. Chaos will rain. It can be assured.
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C
Yes. Don't worry about it.
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A
And then Alistair Pearson says, you're all gonna need to go for a piss.
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C
I'm gonna go and bake some bread. Yeah.
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A
So you've got this. It's an airborne thing. They all know it. Anyone who's experienced knows that actually you need a pee. And it. And it. And it's because you're hanging around, you're drinking a cup of tea, whatever. And also, you know, he's been drinking rum. Frost, he's been drinking a diuretic. So he needs to go.
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C
Yeah, fair enough.
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A
Anyway, we collected at the rendezvous in about 10 minutes. We were ready to move off. So Frost assembles his men from Hardy.
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C
Yes.
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His party. And then he waits on Captain Vernon. Flight Sergeant Cox.
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C
Yeah. Where's Coxy?
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A
Well, they've landed in that same. In that he's. Cox is in the same stickers as. As Frost. But they've gone to find their containers that are marked with purple lights with the sappering Tools. Yeah. And that's the trolleys that they're going to assemble.
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C
Yep.
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A
For. For taking the radar away.
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C
The really big wrenches and spanners.
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A
Wrenches, Spanners, screwdrivers, demolitions. Because they're going to blow it up as they leave to, to, to blow it up. Because interestingly, when they get back, it's all. It's in the papers. The Bruneval raid. It's, it's. But it's that they've been and destroyed a radar site. That's the story that the papers have. Because they need, they need the good news, right, that we've gone and done this incredible, daring thing.
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C
But they say they don't want the jury. They've got it.
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A
Well, the Germans know they've. They know they've got it. The following morning and there's a, A plane goes over the following morning, there's all these germs stood around the. Where the first berg was going, scratching their heads like stone laurel. Like perhaps we should have disguised it better. But anyway, that, but, but what's interesting is that, is that, is that they've got all this stuff to get together. So there's a delay. There's a. There's a. There's a delay and it takes. Everything takes slightly longer. Collecting the weapons takes slightly longer. And then Jellicoe, Yes. Under Lieutenant Ewan Young, they go ahead to secure the radio location site to secure the dish. Right. The electric bowl, as, as it's been described. And the assault waits on Frost. Everyone's creeping stealthily through the night and they wait on Floss. Frost blowing his whistle, right? Three blasts on the whistle and then three blasts on the whistle and then Frost will kick the door open of the villa. Now what's interesting about this is Frost would rather be running ahead quarters. I'm going to.
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C
But we haven't, we haven't got original ARP wardens whistle.
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A
We haven't got to the. We haven't got to the door yet.
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C
Yeah, yeah. I just need to rein in my excitement.
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A
Frost doesn't. Frost is annoyed about this. He would rather that he has a headquarters and he's coordinating things. Yes, I remember this and that and that. He. He. He thinks as the commanding officer, he shouldn't be doing this.
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C
No, this is wrong.
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A
But anyway, as we heard in an earlier episode, there's that moment where he says to the staff officer, I think your plan's crap. And the staff office says, well, we'll find someone who likes the plan. Then he goes, I like the plan.
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C
Yes, yes, yes.
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A
Anyway, Frost gets to the doorfront of the villa. It's open, and in his excitement, he almost forgets to blow the whistle. What? Yeah, because the expectation is it's full of the hunter. Right. Anyway, he blows his whistle.
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C
Yep.
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A
And off it kicks. Right. They burst into the house. They're yelling handy Hawk with their Sten guns. They've got these brand new Sten guns. Yeah. There's a couple of jams on the night, but that's.
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C
That's not nothing to get worried about.
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A
Nothing to worry about. They're lobbing grenades about. And there's one man in the villa.
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C
Yeah.
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A
Who with a machine gun, who currently signed a major store, kills when he doesn't surrender. So, so much for the villa. But at the same time, all the other assaults are starting.
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C
Great.
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A
On the. On the blast of Frostburg, because it's this. This small an area.
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C
Yeah.
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A
Right.
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C
And also those whistles are pretty loud.
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A
They're pretty loud. And there's nothing else going on.
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C
Right. And it's a still winter night.
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A
Still winter night. The throb of the aircraft has long since receded. And after the battle, in the German battle report on Bruneville, they remark on how good the Paris fire discipline is. They say, until we heard the whistle, we didn't know. We didn't know a thing was going down. That there's no. There's no stray shots. There's no. There's no negligent discharges. There's no. None of that. They just. They just go. It. They're going. So Jellicoe, under Lieutenant Ewan Young, they storm the radar position. Position with great ferocity. Very.
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C
And the Germans have got pajamas on.
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A
Yeah.
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C
They're caught napping.
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A
Yeah.
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C
I mean, it's just another night, isn't it, in February.
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A
It's just another night. They got their overcoats on, and they stand and watch as the Jellicoe party approach with their hands in their pockets. They're just watching it because they think it's an exercise or something. Right.
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C
And also. And they look a bit like fastenerga.
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A
The helmets look like fashion, Jaeger, because the uniform, the paratroopers uniforms, British paratroopers,
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C
are pretty much the same as a German homage.
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A
Let's call it homage.
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C
Okay. Yeah. Inspired by.
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A
Inspired by reimagining Young. However, he says in a few minutes we'd captured the set and the defenders were dead.
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C
Okay.
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A
And he's actually killed five of them in cold blood. They don't. They. They just kill him and they kill all but Two. And his sergeant. Sergeant McGregor rebukes him, says, you're a cruel bastard because he thinks. He thinks he's gone too far. And also they are really meant to bring some blokes home who know how to work the Wozeburg.
- [22:17]
C
Do you think during his blood's up a little bit?
- [22:19]
A
I think he's. I think they're all. They've been. Come on. They've been. Of course, they've been sat thruxted with their parachutes on for three days.
- [22:25]
C
Yes.
- [22:26]
A
Revving to go. They also know that this is the. They all know that airborne forces need a win.
- [22:32]
C
Yeah.
- [22:33]
A
They all know they need to demonstrate that they're like the absolute bee's knees.
- [22:38]
C
Yeah. But he needs fervor on the night. You know, adrenaline's pumping.
- [22:42]
A
Of course it is, But. But more prisoners who understood the apparatus would have been useful. But there we are. Right. You can't. You start where you start where you are. Right. Rather than where you'd rather be. One of them is called Georg Schmidt. He's a telephone operator. And he's caught trying to phone through to the garrison at La Presbytere. But then immediately he surrenders. The nick of time. He handholds because I think he's got the message. They've killed a load of blokes, stood around with their hands in their pockets.
- [23:04]
C
It's quite a strong message.
- [23:05]
A
It's quite a strong message. The other is Johannes Tevis, or Toyvis, I think, right in. He's a Verseberg operator and he's found 10ft down the cliff having tried to escape. And Lieutenant Young describes him as looking quite funny trying to scramble back up the cliff with his hands up.
- [23:25]
C
Yeah, I can see that.
- [23:26]
A
I think Young. Young's cruel. He is a cruel bastard.
- [23:30]
C
Yeah. But he's not without a sense of humor.
- [23:31]
A
He's not without a sense of humor. So immediately, Tevis Toyvas. Toyus is immediately interrogated by Private Newman.
- [23:40]
C
Slash, AKA Nagel.
- [23:42]
A
Nagel, who's the German Jew who's been attached to C Company. And, you know, we talked about how Frost wasn't happy about another stranger, but he. Then he makes a point of tearing off Toyvis's Luftwaffe insignia with its Nazi emblem. And they say, why have you done that? He goes, for my own satisfaction. Fair.
- [24:01]
C
Fair enough. Fair.
- [24:02]
A
Fair. Yeah.
- [24:03]
C
It's a. It's a signal of intent.
- [24:04]
A
Yeah, absolutely.
- [24:06]
C
So Newman, he demands to know the enemy's strength, doesn't he?
- [24:10]
A
Yeah, that's right.
- [24:11]
C
Tuvas Tavas replies a thousand. Yeah. And Newman knows he's Lying. So shakes him by the lapels.
- [24:23]
A
Grabs him by lapels. Meanwhile, Sergeant McGregor takes more direct action, punches him and punches him around the jaw.
- [24:31]
C
And he goes, yeah, actually, it's probably only 100.
- [24:33]
A
It's probably only 100. That's what they know. Because the intelligence is. Is that good.
- [24:38]
C
I think Newman goes and goes, liar. And then says, we have ways of making me.
- [24:43]
A
But they did have a way. Even talk.
- [24:45]
C
Yeah.
- [24:45]
A
Punch to the goal, you top out. And what's interesting is Frost. Frost, even as he goes to Thruxton that night, gets update, updated intelligence, new photographs, the whole thing.
- [24:58]
C
Right.
- [24:59]
A
So that the intel is. Is really flowing. Although that makes him nervous because he thinks if the RF are overflying the site.
- [25:04]
C
Yeah.
- [25:05]
A
The Germans are going to know it's coming. Because he's Frost. So interesting because he's. He's honest about how you want to go, but you don't want to go. You're scared, you're concerned, you're worried about your guys, you're worried about yourself. He. He never. He never. He never shies away from telling you how that all feels, which I think is really interesting because he's, you know,
- [25:23]
C
he's a dear reader.
- [25:24]
A
Yeah, exactly. So now, with the radio location position safe, it's time for Captain Vernon and the Sappers Corps of Engineers. Hurrah for the CRE to come up and start dismantling the Wurzburg.
- [25:38]
C
But get on with it, chaps.
- [25:39]
A
Get on with it. Yeah. Yeah.
- [25:41]
C
So this is where Coxy gets to work.
- [25:42]
A
Yeah. Yeah. And I. I love Flight Sergeant Charles.
- [25:46]
C
He's a protectionist.
- [25:47]
A
Yeah, he's a projectionist. They found, though, that the tools aren't up to the job, that they've brought the wrong tools. They've got a long screwdriver to undo under the screwdrivers.
- [25:55]
C
Well, it needs a Phillips, but they've got a flathead.
- [25:57]
A
It's basically.
- [25:58]
C
Oh, no, why did we not bring a socket set?
- [26:02]
A
It's just.
- [26:02]
C
It's in metric. It's imperial, not metric.
- [26:05]
A
I mean, this is. This is. This is kind of thing. Anyway, Cox is struck by how well the Wurzburger's been made.
- [26:13]
C
Obviously, it's German.
- [26:14]
A
Yeah. Quality, the workmanship.
- [26:15]
C
Why is he surprised?
- [26:16]
A
Well, I think actually face with the reality of it, you know, it's made by Telefunken. It's made by Telefunken. Anyway, he really thinks the quality of workmanship far exceeds the kit he's familiar with at home. And he says about the dish, and I think you should be Charles Cox. Jim because otherwise I'm doing everybody, go on.
- [26:31]
C
Was housed in a kind of pit in the ground with a two foot wall running round it above ground level. The wall was made of turf and roof with duck boards. The whole thing looked very much like a searchlight except for a little cabin on the side.
- [26:43]
A
And the men stand up around. It's like he's here. The men stand up around the. You got tickets for the matinee?
- [26:51]
C
Yeah, just running it through now.
- [26:53]
A
Yeah. Have you seen King Kong? It's incredible.
- [26:54]
C
Oh, absolutely amazing. Personally, I prefer Bambi.
- [27:00]
A
But the men are standing up, up around the dish to work on it. It's all very. And it's flat at Bruneval.
- [27:05]
C
Yeah, this big. Flat as a board.
- [27:07]
A
No cover?
- [27:07]
C
No.
- [27:08]
A
Right. So they cut away the radio element and the cable from the aerial to the box. But the Germans are now waking up.
- [27:15]
C
What is going on?
- [27:16]
A
Yeah. And after the break, we'll look at the enemy reaction. And where are half of Nelson?
- [27:21]
C
Where is Left Hand and Charteris and
- [27:23]
A
half of the Nelson party? Jonathan.
- [27:25]
C
This is drama of a capital D, people.
- [27:27]
A
It certainly is.
- [27:33]
B
Let's talk about a condition many people haven't heard of. And it turns out it's more common than you'd think. Peyronie's disease, or PD for short. PD can happen when scar tissue builds up under the skin of the penis. This can cause a curve or bump during an erection and for some men lead to pain during intimacy and may impact mental health. It may also lead to anger and frustration, depression, lower self esteem, and even withdrawal from sexual activity and physical intimacy. Because of this, some men could feel embarrassed or reluctant to talk about pd. The actual cause of PD isn't always known. In some cases, it may be linked to a minor injury or repeated injuries during sex or other physical activity. The good news is PD is treatable. If you notice a curve with a bump, a trusted urology specialist can help diagnose it and walk you through your options, including non surgical treatment. To learn more about Peyronie's disease, visit talkaboutpd.com when you finally find your thing,
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D
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E
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- [29:35]
A
Welcome back to. We have ways to make you talk Where James and I are taking you through Operation Biting. The Bruneval raid.
- [29:41]
C
Yeah.
- [29:41]
A
Good news from February 1942, but not
- [29:44]
C
without a few hiccups.
- [29:45]
A
Well, yeah, and. And we've come to the part of the raid which is the hiccupy bit. The hiccupy bit, Right. Because, I mean, we've said before in the podcast, this is unequivocally the most successful British airborne operation of the Second World War. The fact it lasts two and a half hours. Right. Rather than nine days. I mean, maybe. Maybe there's your problem.
- [30:08]
C
Yeah. Okay. The bottom line is. Well, we'll talk about this again. But this, this is how airborne forces should be used.
- [30:13]
A
Yeah.
- [30:14]
C
Strike and grab.
- [30:15]
A
On scale. Yeah, on this scale.
- [30:17]
C
Yeah. Yeah.
- [30:17]
A
So. So fire has now started to come in from the. From the farm complex at La Presbytere. The farm.
- [30:22]
C
But it's wild, it's night.
- [30:24]
A
Yeah, but. But it's fire. Right. And.
- [30:26]
C
And it's flat.
- [30:27]
A
And it's flat. There's no cover. So. And the Germans have also. They're flying, firing. Their position is one of COVID so they can organize themselves as they choose. Right. And Frost decides that he's got to fall back from the villa to the radar equipment because his party are up at the radar equipment. The radar equipment's between the beach and the villa or between the cliffs and the villa. Beaches below the cliffs.
- [30:50]
C
Yes.
- [30:50]
A
So he. So he thinks, right, well, how tall
- [30:53]
C
are those cliffs there?
- [30:54]
A
I think they're 300ft.
- [30:55]
C
Oh, wow. So decent.
- [30:56]
A
Something like that, yeah. Anyway, fire starts zipping in, so Frost says, okay, let's get out of here and go back and protect the radar party. So as his party are leaving, one of the men, Private McIntyre, is killed by a sniper.
- [31:11]
C
Oh, no.
- [31:11]
A
So the. The Germans. German shooting isn't bad. Or they. They say by a sniper. I mean, he's killed by a rifleman. We. You know, he's killed by bullet. Killed by bullet. We. We don't know. But this means the Germans. Germans are now waking up and they are now responding. And this is. This is probably. There's probably. I don't know, this has taken 20 minutes for the Germans to.
- [31:32]
C
Yeah.
- [31:32]
A
To get their act together about that.
- [31:34]
C
Sounds about right, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah. You know, and Cox, he's still there trying to kind of get his Imperial Spanners to work on a metric system.
- [31:41]
A
Exactly. A bullet zipping overhead over the. Over the Wurzburg as Vernon's party are working on the. On the Verseberg was becoming more dangerous. And Charles Cox, he describes this.
- [31:52]
C
All this time, the German bullets were zinging by, some striking the radar equipment. Each time we flashed a light to see what we were doing, there were howls of protests from our companion parachute shootists. I can now understand how they felt. We were busy. They were just standing or kneeling there being shot at.
- [32:08]
A
Well. And so what they. What they then decide to do is that Vernon decides the best option is to rip the remaining parts out by brute force.
- [32:15]
C
Yes.
- [32:15]
A
Which isn't that. I. I spoke to a sapper friend of mine about this and he said, well, that's the true tradition of the corps of engineers. Got a crowbar and just wrenched the.
- [32:24]
C
Yeah, yeah. Well.
- [32:27]
A
And it's at this point that through Frost begins to really rue the command structure.
- [32:32]
C
Why. Okay.
- [32:33]
A
Or lack of it. Why that's been imposed? Well, he. He wants a company HQ where runners can come.
- [32:39]
C
Yes, I remember that. And that was a bit of a. He had a bit of beef about that.
- [32:42]
A
Exactly. He wants to be able to like, be in the middle and go, okay, so you need help here. I'll direct help here. Rather than all the parties kind of left their own devices and the number
- [32:50]
C
38 radio sets aren't working properly.
- [32:52]
A
No, Kelsa Priest, that's priced in. Right. The radio. The thing is, if you talk to modern soldiers, they don't expect the radios to work properly. It's never changed.
- [33:01]
C
I mean, literally every time you say broadsword calling Danny Boy, you're expecting to have no answer on you.
- [33:05]
A
Yeah, exactly, exactly. I mean, if you can, you know, I mean, it's interesting, isn't it, because we've often talked about how in Normandy, the firepower in Normandy, if you're. If you're a captain, you can call in an AGRA, strike like a mic target calling 600 guns to. To blat a square mile or whatever and deal with the opposition. Well, yeah, if the radio works. Starting.
- [33:25]
C
But it's quite a sticky situation.
- [33:27]
A
Yes, yeah. Because starting a raid like this is one thing.
- [33:30]
C
Getting out of it is.
- [33:31]
A
Getting out of it is quite another. And I think. And whatever delay the Germans could inflict now will eat it. Eat away at Frost's chances of getting. Eat away his chance of getting away, let alone getting the Wurzburg back to Britain. And it's 600 yards to the beach, which doesn't sound like much, but. But, but is. It is enough in a wide open space without any cover. This is the problem, you know. And in the confusion, there's a voice heard to call up from the beach below saying the beach is clear and the navy have arrived. So they set off down the path, down the path to the beach and a machine gun opens up on them and rounds actually hit Cox's trolley with the stuff in. And one of the pieces of the Wurzburg that he's holding, I mean, the
- [34:17]
C
first one's not that small.
- [34:18]
A
No, no, they've. I mean, they. But they've broken it up into pieces. And, you know, he's got a bit under his arm. Boink rounds peeling off it.
- [34:25]
C
Right.
- [34:26]
A
Company side. May Strat, Strawn, Strachan. Strachan is following Frost and he's struck by seven rounds. No. Yeah. Some in the stomach. He's gravely, gravely injured. So frost runs back 50 yards to. To the company sergeant major gives him a shot of morphine. So there's. There you go, mate. You're all right, you'll be fine. And then with. With Lieutenant Young, they shout over the gunfire to each other what they're going to do about getting to the beach and clearing the way to the beach. But something's gone wrong.
- [34:57]
C
Yeah.
- [34:58]
A
And they know they have to. They've got to clear the pill boxes overlooking the beach.
- [35:02]
C
Yeah.
- [35:03]
A
And then there's a voice from the beach, which is Captain Ross, which is the other half of the Nelson party that went to the right place and has. Has managed to deploy in the right place, calling up, saying the beach is not secure. And the firefight breaks out on the beach. So. So it's all going wrong. Every aspect of it is. Now it's. The whole thing is beginning to unravel quite fast. Unravel. And the reason is that the half. The Nelson party, the party designated to cover C Company's exit, has been split in two and they've gone to the
- [35:34]
C
wrong and it's all Percy Picker's fault.
- [35:36]
A
Well, I don't want to. I don't want to pin the blame on Percy Pickard's pipe, but possibly we have to pick a peck of Percy Pickard's pipe peckers right now Anyway. So these 20 men under Second Lieutenant Ewan, Charterist. They've landed the other side of the village to the south, some two and a half miles away.
- [35:55]
C
Okay, so a stretch, but not.
- [35:57]
A
Yeah, and there's a. The accounts differ about the distance, Right. Some. Some say it's a mile and a half, some it's two miles, some two and a half miles. But it's the other side of the village, so there's an obstacle they've got to get through. True. Right.
- [36:07]
C
Yeah.
- [36:08]
A
So Chartres decides it's. This is actually pretty simple. We'll head towards the sound of the gunfire at the radar site and we'll double through the village where the Germans are known to be garrisoned. Garrisoned, because that's probably in the confusion, actually the simplest thing to do and the quickest route.
- [36:23]
C
And also that will also cast a huge amount of confusion for the Germans if they're suddenly being attacked from the other side.
- [36:27]
A
You lean into the confusion. Right.
- [36:29]
C
Lean into it.
- [36:30]
A
And as they're pressing on hard and they, they, they are, they're. They're doubling. So they're running at six miles an hour with all their quick kit or whatever. They. A German soldier manages to join the back of the column. Yeah. Because he's confused. He's thinking hullabaloo, better follow the lads to wherever they're going. And he's on the end of the column, you know, and. And they. Maybe he thinks he's their falchion. Yeah. Because the helmets look similar.
- [36:53]
C
Right? Yeah.
- [36:54]
A
Well, not even that. They just think they're germs. They look like German lids. So this unfortunate German is then dealt with, having. He realizes he's an error and he's dealt with. And accounts differ. So one account is that Lieutenant Charteris goes to kill him with his revolver, forgets to turn the safety off, so one of the other boys shoots him with a stain gun. The other is that he's, you know, done with a commando knife, throat slit. And. And I think that either way, poor sod, he's dead. I mean, yet another tragedy in the Second World War. He thought he was helping out, what he was doing.
- [37:30]
C
The right thing.
- [37:31]
A
Exact. But it proves that in the noise and confusion, pressing on hard through the village is actually the best option because they aren't resisted. So then they duck out of the village, having picked up some men from the Rodney party under Second Lieutenant John Timothy, who's a. Who's a former guardsman who's been commissioned from the ranks. Right. And they set up a bren to cover them as they dash across the open space, the ground between the village and the entrance to the top of the cliffs. And Frost's astonished to see Charteris, who's after all, meant to be down on the beach.
- [38:02]
C
Yes.
- [38:03]
A
What are you doing here? Right, And Charteris has lost four guys that got lost on the way in the darkness.
- [38:08]
C
Okay, well, that's not too bad.
- [38:10]
A
Yeah, but at least he's made it so Frost knew. It's now it's time to decide to. To invest in securing C Company's exit. That's the effort. Now, obviously, something was seriously wrong with this part of the plan. And just as I was going across to see John Timothy of Rodney to order him to put in an immediate attack from his positions, a man came from behind us to say that the Germans had reoccupied the villa and were advancing against. Against us from that direction. These are short distances. Here again, we are a disadvantage, as my men were armed only with Sten guns and grenades. And the unorthodox formations we had adopted meant that I personally had to lead the party back to deal with this new threat. While I had many other things to think of.
- [38:48]
C
Here's someone in his company headquarters.
- [38:50]
A
Yep. So things are really starting to unravel now. Charlie Cox, Charles Cox is waiting to get down onto the beach. And he recalls there was still a
- [38:58]
C
lot of noise coming from the village. We could hear the Bren guns echoing down a gully and a crash of exploding mills bombs. We descended about one quarter of the way to the beach when from the pillboxes on the cliff on the other side of the gully came a terrific hail of machine gun fire. The snow shooting up at my feet showed how near we were to getting a packet.
- [39:19]
A
So time is of the essence.
- [39:21]
C
Yes. And time is running out. Oh, my goodness. You can't leave it on that cliffhanger.
- [39:27]
A
It's exactly where we're leaving it because.
- [39:28]
C
And literally on a cliff.
- [39:30]
A
Literally. It's a cliffhanger, actually on a cliff. Right. We've often said that whoever wrote the Second World War, a lot of it's on the nose.
- [39:38]
C
Yes.
- [39:40]
A
We have a cliffhanger here on. On a cliff. Will C Company, Jock Company, John Frost, Charles Cox, Dennis Vernon with the radar. Will they. With the Wurzburg. Will they get away? Will they? Will Rodney, Drake, Jellicoe, Nelson.
- [39:56]
C
Yeah.
- [39:57]
A
So far one man's been killed, as far as we know. McIntyre, what's the.
- [40:02]
C
Sean's been hit seven times.
- [40:03]
A
Been hit seven times. What is the. And is more perilously wounded. What is. What is the outcome and the one way to find out is to subscribe so that we have ways to make you talk. Patreon. We become a member and enjoy the benefits of membership or become a. An Apple officer class podcast channel member. But I would, if I. If I were you, I'd go to the extra quid. It's only it.
- [40:24]
C
It's less than a pint.
- [40:25]
A
And you can watch us talk less than a point. You can watch this, talk about this on a live cast where we. We chew over how exciting this story is and hear your.
- [40:33]
C
You can have one pint of Guinness and be worse off.
- [40:35]
A
Exactly. Yeah. Anyway, thanks for listening. We'll see you very soon. Cheerio. Join us on the cliffs in our next episode.
- [40:41]
C
Cheerio.
- [41:04]
A
You know, Jim, brands often think they have to sort of march in perfect step, perfect formation with the subject of a podcast Second World War history show. It must all be tanks and documentaries or a man selling artisanal trench whistles.
- [41:17]
C
Yeah, but that's not what it's about, is it? You know, because what really matters is whether people trust the show carrying the message.
- [41:23]
A
Way of Ways of AKU Talk is part of Goal Hanger, the independent UK network. Behind the rest is politics. The rest is history and much, much more. And across the network, there are more than 75 million full episode streams every month.
- [41:37]
C
Month. So across the network, 68 of listeners act on the ads they hear, nearly double the industry average.
- [41:44]
A
So if you're a brand, an agency or a platform, you don't need a tank division to belong on here. It's just something worth saying to an audience that's already fully mobilized, fully engaged.
- [41:55]
C
For more information, email partnershipsoalhanger.com partnerships@goal hanger.com
- [42:01]
A
it's mushrooms with me, Matty Matheson. You know what's better than thinking about dinner? Too hard not stop that and just choose mushrooms. Five minutes. Done. Dinner's that easy and you feel like a genius.
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F
It's not magic, it's mushrooms.
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A
Stop stressing@mushroomcouncil.com I sold my car in Carvana last night. Well, that's cool.
- [42:20]
F
No, you don't understand. It went perfectly. Real offer down to the penny. They're picking it up tomorrow. Nothing went wrong.
- [42:26]
E
So what's the problem?
- [42:28]
F
That is the problem. Nothing in my life goes as smoothie. I'm waiting for the catch.
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A
Maybe there's no catch.
- [42:33]
F
That's exactly what a catch would want me to think. Wow.
- [42:36]
E
You need to relax.
- [42:37]
F
I need to knock on wood. Do we have. What is this? Table wood.
- [42:39]
E
I think it's laminate.
- [42:40]
F
Okay.
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A
Yeah.
- [42:41]
F
That's good. That's close enough.
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E
Car selling without a catch. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pick up fees may apply.